to be pissed off with these parents who BUY under age kids booze for parties?

(132 Posts)
EliotNess Sun 30-Jun-13 10:23:56

who the fuck are they? S1 goes to a party, he is 14 almost 15. Who buys annabel frigging 48 cans of lager?
I don't feed my kid lager. It is against the law to buy alcohol for under 16s and it is also bloody irresponsible.

the whole french watered down wine mantra has been proven to be a hug middle class fallacy and this condoning of drinking yet ranting about Booze britain is starting to get on me tits

EliotNess Sun 30-Jun-13 10:24:33

plus part of being a teen is TRYING to get booze yourself. Not having given it to you.

This is far worse than parents buying stuff for kids at proms wink

48 cans!!!!
I have to say I wouldn't mind giving my child a little amount of alcohol at that stage, but with me, not at a party.
And agree with you, the evidence does not exist that children who try alcohol with their parents grow up with a healthier relationahip with it.

Who is Annabel?

I don't think a couple of cans of lager at that age is a problem. 48 is a bit excessive though.

Although I did a middle class version with my 6yo yesterday. I gave him a tiny amount of coca cola hoping he'd hate it. Only time he's ever had fizzy drinks in the past he spat it out. He loved it sad

EliotNess Sun 30-Jun-13 10:27:28

plus half the adults who give kids booze dont drink responsibly themselves.
ANy effort to transport french cafe culture is doomed, it just doenst translate to our drinking style

EliotNess Sun 30-Jun-13 10:28:03

you cant provide alcohol for OTHER PEOPLES kids imo.

if he were 16 - 18 fair dos. he is FOURTEEN

MoominsYonisAreScary Sun 30-Jun-13 10:29:17

Or the mother who buys weed and beer for them and lets them have it in her summer house as it stops get son going out and getting into trouble, twat!

I wouldn't have a problem buying mine a couple of cans for a party from the age of 16 but wouldn't buy it for anyone else's dc

OP I suspect you're going to be told YABU but I completely agree with you.

EliotNess Sun 30-Jun-13 10:30:14

i think 16 has to be the age - otherwise, fuck it - give it at primary school.

I think without warning other parents it is bloody irresponsible.

EliotNess Sun 30-Jun-13 10:30:59

part of the test of adolescence, surely is wearing a fake moustache and asking for " 4 cans of your finest lager" in a deep voice at Oddbins grin

EliotNess Sun 30-Jun-13 10:31:13

moomin hmm

That really backfires when you're a girl

EliotNess Sun 30-Jun-13 10:33:34

lol

meditrina Sun 30-Jun-13 10:35:03

Yup, too much too young.

A couple of cans for an over 16 might be ok.

My eldest is mid-teen and we're starting to think about permitting alcohol. So far it's only been toasts at weddings and the odd sip from our glasses (doesn't like the taste much, which helps - except limoncello oops).

I'd also worry about what would go on at a young teen party with that much booze available. I'm also teaching recovery position and drilling that, no matter how much trouble you think you might get into, the need to call for adult help or an ambulance if someone passes out.

Bowlersarm Sun 30-Jun-13 10:36:32

I wouldn't dare say YABU OP. You clearly have strong views on the subject!!

Who's Annabel?

EliotNess Sun 30-Jun-13 10:37:03

lol Sorry bowler .

Annabel was hte hostess

Coconutty Sun 30-Jun-13 10:38:28

DS16 is allowed a couple of cans for a party. Did your S drink some out of interest?

The parent who gave their son a bottle of gin to take to a party was a dick. The kids were 15 at the time. DS did try it.

wonderingsoul Sun 30-Jun-13 10:38:33

i remeber being 14/15 hanging out side theasurs getting people to buy as white lighting.. my friend used to flash em for it...

classy right.. even stranger my parents where strict i had to be in at 6, even on a weekend. still did it though whilst playing the sober game on the walk home.

iv been asked to buy fags for youngsters.. did i heck.. i went in and told the shop keeper what they where after lol.

i dont get why adults do it.

Greenkit Sun 30-Jun-13 10:39:12

Thread hijack

Interesting most are saying from the age of 16yrs is ok. DD16 goes to her friends house and her friends parents allow them to drink. Its like a hang out for all the girls and they sleep over on a friday most weeks.

I have said to DD i am unhappy with her drinking, but have explained about volumes and how being quite small it will take less for her to get drunk than others and to be sensible. Short of banning her from ever staying at her mates houses, im not sure what else can be done....

Do you think im doing the right thing??

Floppityflop Sun 30-Jun-13 10:39:28

I am just imagining the lovely teenaged Annabel and her 48 cans of Special Brew...

If I could do a rolling laugh animation I would.

EliotNess Sun 30-Jun-13 10:39:56

i believe * raises eyebrow* it was fosters
grin

EliotNess Sun 30-Jun-13 10:40:43

greeny its bloody hard, isnt it.
THe additional thing is that s1 is the youngest in his year so everyone else is turning 16

Plus he is PFB - i KNOW we will be cooler for the next kids

cazboldy Sun 30-Jun-13 10:40:48

i agree with you.

my ds1 has just left school, and has been to various parties etc, ALL with alcohol provided.

now i know there would be some smuggled in anyway, but to freely provide it, to the point where photo's are placed on facebook of trollies full of booze ......

it's giving them the wrong message!

and because they are not used to it, they down as much as they can and feel ill very quickly.

the parents are braver then me! I wouldn't want a load of drunk teenagers in my house!

Helpyourself Sun 30-Jun-13 10:41:12

I wish you were my dcs friends' parents!
I've posted about it before; DD14 had a party and nearly 50 drunk and carrying booze teenagers turned up! The vast majority were under 16 and all but a handful arrived and left without an adult. I let them all in and confiscated what I could get my hands on.
I am now notorious! I decided to accept the consequences of having drunk teenagers under my roof rather than turfing them out into the snow.

wonderingsoul Sun 30-Jun-13 10:41:23

greenkit.
i think you are, if you ban her it will lead to more rebeling i think and more screacy.

i think the most important thing is drill home is, drinking can be fun, done safe. you dont have to get balwing drunk and pass out. also liek the other op said. to call if s ome one is in need of help no matter what trouble you think your get into.

EliotNess Sun 30-Jun-13 10:41:38

we have a good relationship with s1 - no shouting or I hate you, or anything. He is very calm and gets it.
We have imposed a minor sanction that will inconvenience him,

OctopusPete8 Sun 30-Jun-13 10:41:42

48 cans is mental, you'll have a lot of spewing kids I bet.

Dawndonna Sun 30-Jun-13 10:42:48

Just as a point to some. 16 is the legal age in Germany, Austria, Belgium, The Netherlands, to name a few.

MoominsYonisAreScary Sun 30-Jun-13 10:42:50

When we were young there was a couple of places who sold booze to us, ds1 is 18 now and could have pssed for 18 for the last few years but wasn't able to find anywhere that would sell it to him without Id.

That takes me back, 20 /20, thunderbird and diamond White on the cricket field of a Friday night

EliotNess Sun 30-Jun-13 10:42:51

Help - its odd isnt it. I drink. I have parties, i am not some kind of Amish mother. But I cannot risk being responsible for a kid being hospitalised on my watch , so if we did have a party for CHILDREN ( which tbh I never would) there would be no booze and the whole thing would be a disaster from their regard

EliotNess Sun 30-Jun-13 10:43:33

One of the other kids there was getting a tax home - presumably so he can sneak in and not do the drunk walk!

EliotNess Sun 30-Jun-13 10:44:01

I might let him have a small beer on holiday maybe. MAYBE. LOrd I dunno.

Floppityflop Sun 30-Jun-13 10:44:29

I think it is legal to serve alcohol to children over the age of 5 in private premises. I haven't looked into it but that suggests that an over-18 would have to be serving the drinks (I.e., you can't buy your 16-year old a load of tinnies and leave them alone).

Restaurant beer, wine and cider okay with meal if 16 or over and accompanied by adult. No spirits.

"Plus he is PFB - i KNOW we will be cooler for the next kids"

Nothing cooler than an early start on the cirrhosis. You are doing the RIGHT THING

Bowlersarm Sun 30-Jun-13 10:46:07

greenkit it seems to be the regularity which is a problem, if it is every Friday. I would say it's fairly naive if people don't expect their 16 year olds to start experimenting with alcohol, but she is drinking very frequently. Not sure what you should do about it though. Tricky.

My DS1, 17, is sporty thank god, so will only drink occasionally. My 15 year old isn't interested in girls/parties yet. At the moment we don't have any alcohol issues, but it must be tough if you do with your teens.

Greenkit Sun 30-Jun-13 10:46:40

She is my second girl, so I have been there before smile it is hard to get the balance. I wouldnt be happy with crates of drink at a party for young people, but a few drinks is ok, for over 16s, not 14.

My lad 15 isnt into drinking yet, which is good, i have that yet to come smile

Floppity, doesn't also have to be a parent? No idea how you'd check for sure but I suppose it's to stop a mixed group of 18, 17 and 16yos getting drunk in a restaurant, with one barely 18yo "in charge".

Floppityflop Sun 30-Jun-13 10:46:49

Sorry, I mean 5 or over. But while it may be legal it's not necessarily advisable!

EliotNess Sun 30-Jun-13 10:47:26

Polar, its funny as s2 is growing a lot atm and also getting sleepier and more disorganised. We can recongise the signs this time of adolescence, with s1 we just got cross!

No, you do have to be older than 5 to get a glass of wine in a restuarnt with a meal. Not sure what the age is but it is 12+

EliotNess Sun 30-Jun-13 10:48:14

to be honest the precise legality doesnt interest me. Its just wrong in my eyes.

meditrina Sun 30-Jun-13 10:48:26

I'm thinking 16ish because at 18 they can buy alcohol for themselves and I'd like a shot at instilling some drink awareness in the run up to that.

Floppityflop Sun 30-Jun-13 10:48:38

StealthPolarBear, I will have to find out now! Probably just an adult as would be hard to enforce otherwise. Licensee should not serve if people getting intoxicated - often forgotten.

www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/relationships_e/faq_index_family/faq_family_legal_age_drinking_and_smoking.htm
Oh it is 16. But it does just say you have to be with an over 18 - no mention of parent,

Floppityflop Sun 30-Jun-13 10:49:21

It is 16 or over in restaurant and 5 in private premises. Sorry for confusion!

Greenkit Sun 30-Jun-13 10:49:23

Bowlersarm She will go to her mates say two/three times month or so, I dont think they drink every time. Its more that they have spirits rather than lager. I have as above, explained about different sizes, drinking too fast, etc

She is quite sensible, but its still a little scary

EliotNess Sun 30-Jun-13 10:49:54

and you think Greeny, dont you, that you will find it clear. But there are so many shades of grey

Floppity I assumed it would be one of those "reasonable" judgements. So 16 year old in restaurant with middle aged person/couple, can reasonably serve them even if it turns out they are aunt/uncle not parent.
but mixed group of 16/17/18 year olds, obviously no parent - so no!

raisah Sun 30-Jun-13 10:51:51

An anonymous call to the police should nip this madness in the bud.
If the parent thinks she is mature enough to provide alcohol for underage teens then she is responsible enough to take the consequences.

Yes I agree about the fundamental wrongness. It's like the 5yo - it's surely to allow children to have meals cooked with alcohol or sherry trifle without it being "illegal". Why anyone would want to give a child actual alcohol I have no idea, and while it is illegal, I suspect that anything more than a few sips is classed as neglect/endangerment.

Floppityflop Sun 30-Jun-13 10:52:19

StealthPolarBear, I imagine a lot of responsible licensees would do exactly that.

I used to work in a restaurant, so possibly I'm remembering what my boss told me to do

clam Sun 30-Jun-13 10:58:00

OK, this is interesting. Ds is having mates round here next Saturday evening for his 17th. Dh and I will be in, but not too visible, and we're wondering what to offer for drinks. Last year we had a fridge full of J2Os and coke/lemonade etc.. - few ciders I think. They were all fine with that (grateful and polite shock )
Ds has suggested saying no spirits to be brought along, but
I think we're OK with a few bottles of lager/cider. As I said, we'll be in the house (providing the bbq, for a start). Where do we stand with this?

EliotNess Sun 30-Jun-13 10:59:02

i would say that is the PERFECT case to have lager ( very weak) available.

I agree no spirits but I think they will smuggle

mrsjay Sun 30-Jun-13 11:01:57

yanbu he is 14 why do folk think oh it is ok It isnt ok, Id be livid if my 15 yr old was given or bought drink at a party some adults think it is so they can supervise the drinking or some such bollox angry

TheFallenNinja Sun 30-Jun-13 11:03:07

One day, Hollywood will release a movie, it will be about the day that teenagers took over the world as parents competed to be the coolest, and we didn't even see it.

I believe they're talking to Denzel about the lead.

OP, sorry to be mildly critical but it is your responsibility to find out about parties your DS is going to. At that age I would be calling to find out about whether there was parental supervision, whether alcohol was being served and if so would decide whether or not my DS was going. I now do the same for my DD and am glad to say she recently didn't go to a party where cocaine was provided by the 14 yo host!!!!

EliotNess Sun 30-Jun-13 11:05:19

working - you are undoubtably right and in fact that is a good point.

EliotNess Sun 30-Jun-13 11:05:44

lol at NInja

clam at 17 I think that's the time where providing a couple of bottles of lager or whatever is OK.

EliotNess Sun 30-Jun-13 11:06:17

Working
did you have an experience where it went wrong before you adopted that policy?

mrsjay Sun 30-Jun-13 11:07:41

*One day, Hollywood will release a movie, it will be about the day that teenagers took over the world as parents competed to be the coolest, and we didn't even see it.

I believe they're talking to Denzel about the lead.*

with Jaden smith as the leader of the teens grin

I seem to have set myself up as the drinking police. Qualitifcations: 6yo and 3yo whose favourite drinks are both milk, and sometimes are allowed the hard stuff (orange juice) grin
I do have an interest in the subject though, and while the idea of getting watered down wine from the age of 9 and therefore growing up with a "take it or leave it" attitude to alcohol sounds so lovely, that's not backed up by the evidence.

I've heard of a vodka bar for a 15 yo's birthday. The drunk children are then either returned to their parents or to A&E.

mrsjay Sun 30-Jun-13 11:12:27

stealth you are just getting it all sorted when they do reach that age they will know where you stand, I didnt make alcohol taboo but I didnt encourage it either or let them try It didnt make alcohol a forbidden fruit and so far (touch wood) i havn't had a steaming drunk teen, it is a huge problem round here well like a lot of places really teenage drinking, and I know a few cool mums who let their dc drink and now they are adults they drink all the time,

burberryqueen Sun 30-Jun-13 11:12:34

i will buy my 14 year old a beer or two, but BOOZE as in hard spirits i find it shocking that parents buy it for their teens, and they do!! Bottle of vodka and all sorts! i dont even like alcopops

mrsj I'd love to put it down to my superior parenting but those genuinely are their preferences.
If haribo lead to drug use mine will be on crack by the age of 12

EliotNess Sun 30-Jun-13 11:14:34

i think there needs to be a sense of disapproval too. They arent adults - they cannot career around drunk

WorraLiberty Sun 30-Jun-13 11:16:02

YANBU

But just to clarify, how many kids were there?

I mean how many cans of lager did they all get given?

mrsjay Sun 30-Jun-13 11:16:37

I agree with you elliot it seems unpopular with some parents to actually disapprove of childrens behaviour,

Floppityflop Sun 30-Jun-13 11:22:06

I think that if alcohol is served in the home to under-18s it should only actually be seved by the adult otherwise you are moving into the area of illegality. The adult has then bought alcohol for the under-18.

ExcuseTypos Sun 30-Jun-13 11:23:09

They think they're being cool don't they? Instead they are actually being twats.

I just hope the 14 years olds leave plenty of puke dotted around the house. That should teach them.

thebody Sun 30-Jun-13 11:26:39

It's extremely difficult. The ages of 14 to 17 are a bloody minefield.

With ours we worked on the basis rhat we trusted them to act responsibly. we did a party by party basis, allowed then all to go but if anyone came home drunk, ill or in some sort of trouble then all bets were off and they had to start from scratch to build up our trust again.

Both lads were mildly merry on occasions but were 16+ so not too awful. The girls are 13 and 14 now and so far no trouble.

You can't really have hard and fast rules for teens, its such a changing age that what works one week doesn't another.

Venue parties are the best as clubs/ pubs are very strict about serving them.

All teens will drink, all teens will probably get drunk at least once and most will have sex by 18. That's life.

You just got to hope and pray your teen survives it all.

landofsoapandglory Sun 30-Jun-13 11:27:50

From the age of 14 I have allowed my DSes to take 3 small bottles of lager to parties. DS1 is 18 now and has never, ever been falling down puking drunk (that will change next week, he is going to Malia on Wednesday), and DS2 is 16 and one of the few who attend parties and know when to stop. He has a maximum of 4 bottles of beer over 5 or 6 hours.

The kids who were not allowed it and have parents who went ballistic over them having a can of lager when they were fourteen are the ones who chuck it down their necks, end up puking all over the place or in A&E, IME.

but that is your experience landofsoap. The evidence does not show that children who start drinking with their parents, early, are better off as adults.

SirChenjin Sun 30-Jun-13 11:30:57

DS is nearly 16 and has started going to parties. We will buy him 3 or 4 small bottles of cider (lower end of the abv range) but I am surprised at the amount of alcohol some turn up with.

The rule here is this - you come home falling down drunk, you don't go to the next party.

lottieandmia Sun 30-Jun-13 11:30:58

I think it's fine for parents to do this if they do it sensibly and supervise properly. If the kids end up sick afterwards then clearly they weren't supervised enough and there was no moderation.

lottieandmia Sun 30-Jun-13 11:32:51

I think landofsoap has a point - I certainly observed people at university going a bit mad with alcohol when they had previously not been allowed to drink. I don't know about any research though.

StickEmUpPunk Sun 30-Jun-13 11:38:51

I think I was 17 when my dad would buy me 1 bottle of beer at the weekend.
That was about it. By 21 I was a morning drinker and 24 I was in AA.
I don't think it matters what you do when younger, if your gonna go off the rails you will!
Or maybe it's just me!

I'm sorry to hear that and hope you are OK now.

AcrylicPlexiglass Sun 30-Jun-13 11:50:38

Oh god. Reading this with huge trepidation as 14 y.o. son has somehow managed to talk me into letting him have a party next week. I have told him it's going to be the most boring party in the world ever with no alcohol, no smoking, no entry to uninvited reprobates and strict supervision by very uncool parents in the hope of putting him off but he is still keen and wants to go ahead. He went to one yesterday that had 30 extra uninvited guests, drink flowing like a raging river, smoking, drugs on the fringes, an unhinged parent with violent tendencies calling round to complain that his child hadn't been invited and it was bullying, etc etc ad infinitem. I am quaking in my uncool crocs...

EliotNess Sun 30-Jun-13 11:51:20

Yup. Stealth good link
%Research shows the earlier a child starts drinking, the higher their chances of developing alcohol abuse or dependence in their teenage years and as an adult. Children who drink before age 15 are most vulnerable to alcohol misuse later in life.^

landofsoapandglory Sun 30-Jun-13 11:58:13

Stealth, with due respect you have a 6 and a 3 yo so have no experience of teens, alcohol and parties apart from your own. I have an 18yo and a 16yo.

My teens have been going to parties for 4 years, DS1 now goes to pubs and clubs too. We have a very responsible attitude to drinking in our house. I have never been drunk, ever, not even when I was a teen. I am teetotal, DH drinks minimal amounts, maybe a bottle of beer or small cider on a Saturday. My DC have never, ever seen DH drunk (and neither have I). We have educated our DC about drinking responsibly, alcohol has never been the forbidden fruit, they were allowed wine with lemonade in at Christmas from about 10.

When they started to be invited to parties, we knew they would be responsible. They knew they were not to come home drunk, or end up in A&E. They had no interest in getting that drunk. DS1 said the other day that when he is on holiday next week he isn't going drinking to excess every night, he is going to go to the old town with another boy for a couple of nice meals.

DS2 went to a party on the day he left school last month. A boy there was allowed lager for the first time. Within 2 hours he had drunk so much he was vomiting copiously and an ambulance had to be called. That is not the first time that has happened in my boys' circles of friends.

Just because you can not find any 'evidence' doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

WorraLiberty Sun 30-Jun-13 12:00:23

Do you know how many beers each child got OP?

But that contradicts the evidence. And your children are a tiny sample

Ans not randomly selected

mrsjay Sun 30-Jun-13 12:08:39

mrsj I'd love to put it down to my superior parenting but those genuinely are their preferences.
If haribo lead to drug use mine will be on crack by the age of 12

well Stealth they have a lot going on a slight cola addiction and a rubbish childminder who doesn't do international trips grin no hope for them really

mrsjay Sun 30-Jun-13 12:11:51

but land i like to have drink and we never allowed or were easy going about alcohol dd went to a similar end of exam party a few years ago and yes she had a drink no she was not pissed and throwing up everywhere, you can teach children to be responsible about alcohol and not allow alcohol she is now an adult and sometimes she gets drunk when she goes out sometimes she won't I think for a 20 yr old she is a balanced drinker

itsallshitandmoreshit Sun 30-Jun-13 12:12:28

Some parents are hugely irresponsible.

My DS is 16 and since then i have occasionally bought him a 4 pack of lager or a bottle of cider for a party. I don't really want to but I'm trying to be 'realistic'.

A few weeks ago his mate's parents picked him outside my house. I happened to go upstairs and overheard a conversation out of the window as he was getting in the car.

"Right ( to my DS and his pal) me and your mum have bought you a litre of vodka, a litre of gin and a litre of whiskey, that will be okay for you two? I can get beers as well if you want?"

These people are educated, wealthy, intelligent and professional people. Who the fuck gives 16 years the tools to kill themselves? Very different to a 4 pack!

I immediately spoke to the father who was very defensive and made me feel like I was a right square and insinuated it was no wonder my son wanted to spend time at their house if that was my attitude. Cock!

My DH said I should have reported him to the police but I didn't.

TheFallenNinja Sun 30-Jun-13 12:15:13

I think buying that quantity is reckless at best, it makes the holder of such treasure a bee line for those that do not and mistakenly buys popularity, it also diminishes any quantity controls that may be in place. It also says that party = alcohol and the whole focus is on that.

mrsjay Sun 30-Jun-13 12:15:24

what a cock indeed itsa oh as long as there is cool parents the uncool will look square boring and strict hmm

cory Sun 30-Jun-13 12:19:33

Anecdotal evidence from the cory household doesn't seem to help the matter much:

I was brought up in a non-drinking household where alcohol was viewed negatively: I am a moderate drinker

dh was brought up in a fairly heavily drinking household and was encouraged to try alcohol in his teens: he is a moderate drinker

as for dd, she is on a permanent cocktail of painkillers and other medication so the temptation of adding alcohol to that mix is minimal: she goes to parties and watches others get drunk

we'll have to see what happens when ds gets old enough for these parties- should be any time soon

but I will not be hosting them, and he knows that

have already told them that I have seen a case of acute alcohol poisoning in a young teen and I am never going to take the risk of that happening on my watch

burberryqueen Sun 30-Jun-13 12:19:38

yes a right cock, carry on being square and boring...

cory Sun 30-Jun-13 12:22:10

"as for dd, she is on a permanent cocktail of painkillers and other medication so the temptation of adding alcohol to that mix is minimal: she goes to parties and watches others get drunk"

sorry, that sounds almost as if she enjoyed watching others getting drunk; of course she doesn't, but that is how parties go

and the reason I never went to any when I was 16- things weren't that different then

EliotNess Sun 30-Jun-13 12:22:34

haha
I dont think we would get an educated response from someone called Burberyyqueen tbh

I think the biggest influence is the lifestyle of your family, then peer group and research backs that up.

I started to allow some alcohol at around 14, i hardly drink, so this was joining in with me having one drink.

My eldest DD only drinks on rare nights out (because of working hours).

My middle DD is 18 this year, drink doesn't interest her, neither does going to "Town". She is planning an activity holiday with friends for their combined 18th celebrations.

I only ever allow alcohol to my middle DD's 14/15 year old friends, with their parents permission, if they decline, then we all don't drink. This tends to be when i am taking them to concerts etc.

I agree that teens need supervision when there is drink about and it is important that they are given the example that alcohol should be occasional and not to just abuse or to use to relax.

I think it is as dangerous to be giving the message that alcohol is a way to unwind, i personally don't like the whole "wine o'clock" thing.

I think burberry waa agreeing that square and boring is better than dead or an alcoholic

Startail Sun 30-Jun-13 12:38:18

We got served in pubs at 14 plus so I feel hypocritical taking to hard a line on booze, but the odd drink at weddings or at home with a meal and loads at a party are very different things.

We couldn't afford to get drunk at pub prices, cans and bottles of spirits without a measure can quickly get out of hand.

I don't know the answer as my 15y DD1 (who happily drinks wine and beer when we have it with food) only has ludicrously well behaved, strictly brought up friends and the only booze has been a toast on NYE.

DD2 is 12 and some of her friends are to be trusted, others may I think may be more trouble. She's far more sociable and far more likely to do what her peer group does. Although she doesn't like booze yet.

burberryqueen Sun 30-Jun-13 12:41:10

*haha
I dont think we would get an educated response from someone called Burberyyqueen tbh*
I am studying for my masters and work as an academic proofreader. So ner.
I was agreeing....try reading the posts, it helps.

The only sensible way to deal with parties is, as someone else said, ALWAYS phone up to find out first hand what the rules will be and whether there will be sensible and sober adults around all night who will ring parents if things get out of hand and IF you are ok with YOUR teenager attending and having a drink, buy whatever alcohol they are allowed to drink for them and make it an absolute rule that they ONLY drink what they have taken themselves. I have no time whatever for parents of the party thrower supplying alcohol to underage children at all. We had this last year for a 14th birthday party, lots of the boys were still 13yo and the parents thought it was acceptable to buy several cans of cider each, to go out and leave them alone for several hours, and to add insult injury, to laugh hysterically when most of the boys were too drunk to stand or even have a glass of water. Also, the boast was, that there were 4 girls at the party to 20 or so boys and they, I quote, "got passed round like a bottle of cider". I hasten to add, that not being happy with the situation described to me, BEFORE the party, my own DS was at home. Other parents learned a harsh lesson - I hope!

mummytolucas411 Sun 30-Jun-13 13:03:30

I think it is inappropriate to give alcohol to someone else's child at this age. However I personally would not have a problem with my son drinking a little if he was that age. Is this a party with adult supervision?

mummytolucas411 Sun 30-Jun-13 13:05:05

*without checking with the parent first

OP - no bad experiences led me to being super cautious, just he was my PFB. The bad experiences came when we started being more lenient when he was a bit older and didnt check the parties, let him travel there alone and the parties ended up being a car crash, police were involved etc. I do view that as part of growing up and developing maturity but also think my job is to ensure he knows how to keep himself and his friends safe.

We did allow him to drink and did allow his friends to come to our house and provided small lagers when they were a bit older, banning the vodka they preferred. We also provided lots of soft drinks, pizzas and other food to keep them all sober. And my DH wandered through the party every 30 mins keeping a watchful eye. And despite that, on our watch, one lad got completely hammered and my DH sat up with him all night to make sure he was OK. As the adult you are legally responsible for them and parents who provide too much drink and drugs may have a terrible comeuppance.

noddyholder Sun 30-Jun-13 13:08:59

14 wayyy too young. When my ds turned 16 we used to buy him a couple of decent beers no alcopop shit and keep it in the fridge so that if a gathering cropped up he could take them. He often took 2 and I would find one back in the fridge grin. It is a hard one to call but 14 is very irresponsible

mrsjay Sun 30-Jun-13 13:11:10

It is a hard one to call but 14 is very irresponsible

yes I think so too 14 is very young and there is a maturity thing between a 14 and 16 yr old

noddyholder Sun 30-Jun-13 13:13:12

My ds is 19 now and he has been having groups in the house for years but only once they were about 17 did they openly bring beers round and drink them and NEVER 48! I don't even think you need to offer lager on holiday If we are in a pub restaurant my son will still only have one I think out of respect and probably low tolerance! I founfd the smoking in teh garden a dilemma too

noddyholder Sun 30-Jun-13 13:13:51

Did he drink it and get drunk?

Hehe, I know that most of, if not all of, my 15 yo friends drink alcohol on a regular basis. I was chatting to one of their mums, and she mentioned how they all go round her house bringing bottles of spirits with them. I asked, frankly quite horrified, if my DS was doing this and she said "no, he can't drink can he? It's such a shame about his liver complaint" "What liver complaint???? First I've heard of it! It's a shame that he feels pressured to lie to his friends but at least he's not drinking grin

noddyholder Sun 30-Jun-13 13:18:56

grin You do have to be vigilant because no matter how good the relationship teenagers lie about this stuff to cover their arses. One of ds mates was selling weed in the playground aged 15 and his mum was a teacher and delighted in telling us all how her ds was a paragon of virtue. He was in terms of grades etc but he was stoned a lot Meanwhile my ds not really a big drinker or weed smoker even though we are considered 'arty' types who might allow it!

timidviper Sun 30-Jun-13 13:29:47

When I was a teenager, back in the 70s, there were no IDs and adults turned a blind eye to us in the pubs as long as we behaved. Occasionally a barman would say "No, you're not 18, OUT!" but not often and our relatives, neighbours and, once we were in 6th form, even teachers saw us there. We learned to drink responsibly in a social situation where most alcohol tasted horrid, no alcopops or sugary cocktails. Consequently I do think we had a more balanced attitude to alcohol than the kids who grow up drinking White Lightning in the park.

It is a difficult one to balance but I wanted my DCs to learn about alcohol before they went to uni, while they were at home with me to keep an eye on them. Personally I feel 14 is too young and I agree that all parents should be asked before alcohol is provided but I think some of the rules brought in to tackle teenage drinking have made things worse.

I too have had the experience of parents providing alcohol and weed which I think is a step too far.

thebody Sun 30-Jun-13 14:01:31

I think THE most over used patenting sentence in the world is, 'I know my dd or ds is far too sensible/ sensitive/ mature/ focused/ scared to do that.

They all can and they all will.

Being a patent involves a good deal of snooping in bedrooms/ pockets/ phones/ c

thebody Sun 30-Jun-13 14:02:50

Bugger I phone, computers and a massive broad back to take the 'but everyone else's parents let them' and a massive sense of humour.

ThirdTimesABrokenFanjo Sun 30-Jun-13 14:14:28

ya totally nbu.

EliotNess Sun 30-Jun-13 14:18:41

Apologies Burberry.

EliotNess Sun 30-Jun-13 14:22:04

Ouch. Re read. Double apologies.

Re son. He came back ok ish. Just a bit slurry. It's a whole boundary / trust thing going on atm and we keep gently reinforcing the message.

Agree re "my kids too sensible " local professionals kid is selling weed that his sister gets at university. Parents have no clue.

noddyholder Sun 30-Jun-13 14:29:27

I never changed my stance no matter how many raised eyebrows or flouting of the rules we got. They know where they are with boundaries even if they try to push them My ds admits it made him feel safe and he knew he could call us any time day or night if there was a disaster. The uber liberal parents are now finding things a bit of a nightmare

EliotNess Sun 30-Jun-13 14:31:21

That's interesting nod. I don't mind being seen as strict. In fact I have to be for other reasons.

All lines of communication open

noddyholder Sun 30-Jun-13 14:33:09

Thats all you can do. Strict is fine you see the benefits of it further down the line.

cory Sun 30-Jun-13 14:37:48

thebody Sun 30-Jun-13 14:01:31
"I think THE most over used patenting sentence in the world is, 'I know my dd or ds is far too sensible/ sensitive/ mature/ focused/ scared to do that.

They all can and they all will.

Being a patent involves a good deal of snooping in bedrooms/ pockets/ phones/ c"

But with some children trust does actually work. It's a personality question. When I was 16 I stayed in a hotel abroad for a long weekend and I behaved immaculately, sticking to all the rules we had agreed beforehand, because they trusted me and I was proud of that.

If they had made a habit of snooping, reading my private correspondence and generally mistrusting me, I would have made it a point of pride to get one over on them. As a teenager I would not have accepted the thought "they are cleverer than me, they'll find me out"; I would have taken that as a challenge and felt duty bound to prove them wrong. grin

But I was quite happy to accept "we trust you to stick to a deal like an adult would". Because I knew they always stuck to deals.

noddyholder Sun 30-Jun-13 14:41:27

Trust does work to a point but tbh even the best parent child relationship can fall at the peer pressure hurdle.I don't think you can predict anything with teens you have to just roll with it and bite your tongue at times. My ds was an arse and doesn't even know why!

cory Sun 30-Jun-13 14:51:10

noddyholder Sun 30-Jun-13 14:41:27
"Trust does work to a point but tbh even the best parent child relationship can fall at the peer pressure hurdle.I don't think you can predict anything with teens you have to just roll with it and bite your tongue at times."

Very wise words. There are no guarantees.

But frankly, when that happens, even snooping won't make all the difference. With dc this age you cannot keep them 100% safe, you can only do your best.

When my dd had made her second suicide attempt earlier this year, I wanted to give up work to watch her, to keep her safe. The mental health care team pointed out in no uncertain terms that there was no way I could do that: sooner or later, I would have to go to the loo, take a phone call or even fall asleep from exhaustion. If she was determined to go behind my back, then she could sneak out and do it.

They made me see that all possible ways of dealing with the problem were potentially unsafe, but that out of all the possibles, handing her the responsibility for her actions might just be the one with the best longterm chance of success.

A teen who wants to hide alcohol from you can do so. And sometimes they will.

We can do our best, by making sure we do not encourage or condone any illegal or dangerous behaviour and by making it perfectly clear that if they choose to behave in a way we would not condone then that is their choice and nobody else's.

MammaTJ Sun 30-Jun-13 14:52:02

I know someone who had a birthday party at their house for their 16 year old daughter. They provided loads of food and music, which you would expect and also loads of alcohol, which you would not expect.

Then the fights broke out. The young 'lady's' dad knocked a 16 year old lad out. Refused to call an ambulance.

He was heard to moan a couple of days later 'I just don't understand it, I got them lots of booze, I didn't expect them to kick off like they did'. I think he must have thought they would sit around playing tiddly winks!

ZZZenagain Sun 30-Jun-13 14:53:37

Well I remember the parties I went to as a teenager. I don't know where all the alcohol came from but everyone drank it and drank whatever there was. A lot of vomitting and also things of a sexual nature

DadOnIce Sun 30-Jun-13 14:57:14

Agree that there is far too much of parents trying to "look cool" and not be the ones disapproving. They sometimes want it to be someone else's job to tell their teenager not to drink/ smoke/ have sex/take drugs.

It's ironic that this more liberal attitude has been getting stronger just as advertising's attitudes have got tougher. No smoking ads in the magazines or on billboards any more, alcohol adverts more carefully monitored and not allowed pre-watershed, drink-driving campaigns far more hard-hitting now (have gone from awareness of "managing" levels to simply zero tolerance and 'shock' ads like the one with the girl in the pub where the guys are checking her out and suddenly she is an accident victim). And so on.

thebody Sun 30-Jun-13 14:58:52

Cory I hope your dd is getting better now. Bloody awful for you.

Of course you have to trust them to a certain extent or what's the point?

Still a bit of snooping never goes amiss as long as they don't know of course...

EliotNess Sun 30-Jun-13 15:04:41

We've snooped more recently. He's a child. We are in charge of him. And he can be a bit of a doofus sometimes.

We adore him obv

noddyholder Sun 30-Jun-13 15:12:44

In certain situations snooping is the only way to keep an eye on things. I was a bit snoopy re weed as I know it is prevalent in the skateboarding scene and my ds lives and breathes that.

cory I had no idea you'd been going through such a horrible time. Hope things are getting better for you.

Whipple Sun 30-Jun-13 21:37:08

A couple of years ago a colleague of dhs provided bottles of 'wicked' to her ds at his12th birthday party. shock

One mum was furious when she picked up her drunk son. Rightly so obviously.

They don't set a good example of drinking anyway, husband spends every Fri and Sat night downing as many cans of larger as possible it seems.

These two things combined means the 14yo is now out of control. He has been caught stealing parents alcohol on numerous occasions, they have found cans of beer in his bedroom and he has been bunking off school. With no proper boundaries he seems to be on a one way track to self destruction.

They are supposedly a 'decent' family.

YANBU. 16yo is the minimum.

I wish more people talked about the fallacy of the early drinking myth.

mrsjay Mon 01-Jul-13 12:07:31

whipple I know a family like that all the kids are out of control and are drunk most weekends but it is ok cos there mum is right cool hmm

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