to feel sorry for children whose parents smoke?

(188 Posts)
strawberry34 Sat 29-Jun-13 14:11:38

I was walking through the park today and saw a couple sitting with their baby, they were both smoking whilst baby was next to them inhaling their fumes. I felt sorry for the child, for years it's been known that smoking is bad for everyone and passive smoking is dangerous.

It's also known that having a parent who is a smoker increases your likelihood of becoming a smoker when you grow up. I know there will be human rights people who object to me judging parents who smoke, but I do feel sorry for their children. Surely quitting smoking is a small price to pay for your children's future health, it's not like health advice on smoking has changed recently, campaigns have gone on for decades warning of the damage, there are no benefits as far as I can see.

LastTangoInDevonshire Sat 29-Jun-13 14:13:58

If you want nearly everyone to agree with you, why don't you read all the other smoking threads that have been started over the last couple of days instead of starting a new thread?

AND 'human rights' - all in one thread !!!

HeySoulSister Sat 29-Jun-13 14:15:05

The same can be said for children with overweight parents.... There's always a reason why 'other people' aren't behaving how you would like them to!

DioneTheDiabolist Sat 29-Jun-13 14:16:20

My mum's a smoker. She's lovely. Neither me, nor my siblings need you to feel sorry for us OP, so don't waste your time or energy.

Shellywelly1973 Sat 29-Jun-13 14:16:28

Are you bored this afternoon...?

expatinscotland Sat 29-Jun-13 14:17:07

Yawn.

Not all people strive to lead a risk free life.

gamerchick Sat 29-Jun-13 14:18:11

Meh, I feel sorry for babies who arnt given colostrum when they're born, despite all the health benefits.

I got over myself though.

Helpyourself Sat 29-Jun-13 14:18:20

I feel sorry for my dcs as I remember worrying my dad would get cancer and die early. I don't smoke near them, so I don't worry about their lungs or that they smell. I think it must be like having a patent who is dangerously obese or a dangerous sports junkie or even a fast driver for a child.

madhairday Sat 29-Jun-13 14:20:58

Yanbu. I may be hailed as the anti smoking police, but I'm not against people smoking (it's their lungs). I am against people smoking round children.

My dad smoked heavily. I have chronic degenerative lung disease. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

So yes, I do feel sorry for such dc.

Startail Sat 29-Jun-13 14:22:04

As for the children of smokes being more likely to smoke, I can assure you my chain smoking DF, put me off for life and knowing how hard it was for him to finally, after getting pneumonia, stop, has had the same effect on his DGDs

Hercy Sat 29-Jun-13 14:22:09

I would have thought that children of smoker parents would be less likely to smoke than children of non smokers, because they grow up not liking the smell etc. I know that was the case in my family.

crumblepie Sat 29-Jun-13 14:22:51

`It's also known that having a parent who is a smoker increases your likelihood of becoming a smoker when you grow up` ........rubbish i smoke , my parents never and nor do my children .

CloudsAndTrees Sat 29-Jun-13 14:24:39

Really?

Out of all the children in the western world to feel sorry for, you choose the ones whose parents smoke?

What about the children of parents that already have life limiting illnesses, or are obese, or have no job, money or prospects, or who are dysfunctional, or abusive.

I'm sure you can feel sorry for all of them as well, but I'm confused as to why smoking provokes a strong enough reaction that you needed to start a thread on it?

You feel sorry for their children?

Really? Poor you. I feel sorry for you.

Iwantmybed Sat 29-Jun-13 14:28:18

We all know that smokers are selfish spawns of the devils who pay a fortune in taxes. Get over yourself OP.

Smokers are well aware of what non smokers think of them but thanks for pointing it out.

BegoniaBampot Sat 29-Jun-13 14:29:22

I grew up with smoking parents and it really was miserable thought one was a chain smoker who had no problem blowing it in your face and chain smoking through pregnancy etc to say nothing of crying worrying Mmmmm was gong to die (and she did of lung cancer). put me off and have never smoked.

But if people want to be so blasé about the effects on kids go ahead.

ZZZenagain Sat 29-Jun-13 14:33:03

if they are smoking around their dc like the couple you saw i nthe park then yes, I would feel sorry for the dc. It isn't pleasant and it isn't healthy to have to passive smoke. It isn't pleasant for anyone really, whatever age.

My son doesn't need anyone feeling sorry for him but thanks all the same hmm

JazzDalek Sat 29-Jun-13 14:36:49

YABU. I smoked on and off for years, including when DCs were small. I'm a fucking great Mum, for all my failings in other facets of life grin and my DCs couldn't be more loved or better cared-for. Save your pity for the many children who aren't loved, aren't wanted, aren't looked after.

I no longer smoke, but guess what? I'm the same person.

HeySoulSister Sat 29-Jun-13 14:38:25

Op are you a perfect parent then? You don't drink/smoke anything/eat the wrong things?

HeySoulSister Sat 29-Jun-13 14:39:27

Oh and welcome to mumsnet by the way!

Alisvolatpropiis Sat 29-Jun-13 14:43:36

Sigh.

Yes - the children of smokers are the ones we should all be feeling the most sorry for, absolutely. hmm biscuit

ThePurpleCarrot Sat 29-Jun-13 14:52:35

I feel sorry for anyone, child or grown up, who lives with a smoker.

You want to be the non-smoking adult, coping with a teenager who thinks that smoking is good idea!
Actually, there are many children we should be sorry for, the ones whose parents don't actually care about them, the ones whose parents can't afford to give them the necessities in life, the ones whose parents can't/ don't help them with their education,the ones who are abused -either by parents or other people etc, etc. Yes, a child whose parent puts their own need of a cigarette over the need of a child to breathe smoke free air, might deserve better, but it doesn't come top of my list.

WorraLiberty Sat 29-Jun-13 14:58:36

If you try hard enough there are plenty of children you can feel sorry for, for a while host of reasons.

But then your life will just be really shit and full of sorrow.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ginmakesitallok Sat 29-Jun-13 15:00:00

I stopped smoking just 2 weeks ago-agree with those above who've said that there are other children who you should save your sympathy for.

Like BegoniaBampot I grew up with smoking parents. My dad gave up when I was in my late teens, but mum still smokes. I hated the smell of cigarette smoke, especially in the car, where it gave me a headache and made my carsickness much worse. Of course, when I told mum this, and asked her not to smoke in the car, she stopped, right? Wrong. Se denied it was a problem for me and carried right on smoking.

My dad died of congestive cardiac failure, caused by his years of smoking, so none of my children have really known their maternal grandfather. I don't get to see mum that often - we live a long way apart - I find it very unpleasant to stay in her nicotine-kippered house, and she can only come up to us in the middle of the year, when there is a fair chance of dry weather, because dh and I won't let her smoke in the house, so she can't visit in the cold months.

Oh, and she smokes in bed (always has), so there is the extra worry that she will fall asleep under the influence of her strong painkillers, and set herself and the bed on fire.

OP - YANBU!

Dawndonna Sat 29-Jun-13 15:05:40

ODFOD!
I don't smoke, either!
Congrats on your first post.
hmm

To all the 'save your sympathy for children who are really suffering' posters, I'd say this - you do realise that it is possible to feel sympathy for more than one person/group at one time?

I hated having smoking parents - it was a miserable experience. I hate that my dad is no longer here. I hate the thought that all that passive smoking I did as a baby/infant/child could have done me permanent damage.

shockers Sat 29-Jun-13 15:07:43

The children of smokers appear to have a different take on the subject to the smokers themselves... who would have thought it?!

In my opinion OP, YANBU.

AnnieOnAMapleleaf - what would you do if one of your children asked you to stop smoking because the smoke/lingering smell was making them feel ill?

And would you be happy for your children to smoke, and to take on all the health risks involved?

WorraLiberty Sat 29-Jun-13 15:14:02

I think obesity is the new 'smoking' now in terms of shortening the lives of grandparents/parents and putting unborn babies at risk.

But it seems to be perfectly acceptable to not bother losing weight before TTC. In fact overweight mothers seem to get lots of support instead of being judged as selfish.

I wonder if that's because more than half of the women in the UK, who are of childbearing age, are overweight themselves?

It seems very odd to not worry about putting your own child at possible risk, while pointing the finger of judgement at others.

HeySoulSister Sat 29-Jun-13 15:16:49

worra I totally agree!! And I see lots of the fat approvers/apologists here on mn!!

pompeii Sat 29-Jun-13 15:16:50

`It's also known that having a parent who is a smoker increases your likelihood of becoming a smoker when you grow up` ........rubbish i smoke , my parents never and nor do my children .

Ah yes, the old "personal anecdote trumps years of studies and statistical evidence", a favourite of many smokers and smoker-sympathisers. Anyone care to share their stories of 100 year old smoking grannies proving smoking has no effect on longevity too?

Even if one does not smoke around their kids chances are it harms their health as the fumes and toxins are carried on clothes, breath and skin. Smoking is clearly not in the same league as physically and sexually abusing children, but pretending it is not harmful for a parent to smoke is stupid.

YANBU. Orphans in conflict zones have it really really tough. Does that mean I can't feel sorry for orphaned children in Britain just because there isn't a war on?

WorraLiberty Sat 29-Jun-13 15:22:58

Indeed HeySoul and some of them can often be seen advising other MNetters to bin letters, informing them that their child's BMI is too high.

But hey, as long as they don't smoke...

LayMizzRarb Sat 29-Jun-13 15:24:00

Get over yourself.

ThePurpleCarrot Sat 29-Jun-13 15:24:12

What does ODFOD stand for?

notanyanymore Sat 29-Jun-13 15:24:52

I smoke, NEVER near my children, I still feel sorry for them sad

WorraLiberty Sat 29-Jun-13 15:26:06

Purple, it stands for 'Oh Do Fuck Off Dear'

TheSecondComing Sat 29-Jun-13 15:28:03

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BegoniaBampot Sat 29-Jun-13 15:29:41

Oh God, forgot the awful carsickness made worse by being stuck in a car with a chain smoker. Or turning up for your first communion trying to hide the fag burn in your veil as your mum couldn't be bothered to put he fag down as she put your veil on.

But kids of smokers should just shut up I guess no matter how miserable it was or hw much damage. You mt have sufferd due to passive smoking.

Alisvolatpropiis Sat 29-Jun-13 15:31:06

I am aware I can feel sorry for more than group of people but if I felt sorry for them I'd be miserable as fuck.

I'm amazed at all the people who grew up with smokers who remember it being a miserable experience etc.
Family members,granted not my parents,smoked and I don't really remember being that bothered by the smoking itself <shrug>

TheSecondComing Sat 29-Jun-13 15:34:06

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

pianodoodle Sat 29-Jun-13 15:37:47

Smokers are not "happy" about any of the risks just because they continue to smoke.

They are addicted to nicotine.

Sigh...

I smoke outside, at the end of the garden.
DH very rarely smokes, only when he is out for a drink.
My parents do not smoke, neither do DHs.
No one smokes inside the house.

And you don't need to feel sorry for my children, thanks.
They are all good.

Rainbowinthesky Sat 29-Jun-13 15:40:11

I used to get a bit hmm about parents who smoke as my mum did and I hated it. I must have stunk of smoke as she smoked in the kitchen right next to where our clothes were drying.
However, what I think is far more concerning is parents who allow their dc to become obese. This is something people should be up in arms about.

That is a good point, Rainbow. I was overweight as a child, and when I was a teenager I asked my mum to help me with a diet - I asked her to take me to the GP to discuss this - and she refused point blank.

And I know that my obesity is damaging my health, and might shorten my life - but I don't think it has the same sort of effect on my dses' health as mum's smoking had on mine.

I regularly got bad, chesty colds and chest infections as a child, and I still do. Do I know for sure that that is due to growing up with mum and day's smoking? No, of course I don't - but I strongly suspect it. And I know my mum wouldn't have stopped smoking around me if a doctor had told her she was damaging my health. Dad might have.

MoominsYonisAreScary Sat 29-Jun-13 15:47:31

My parents smoked it didn't bother me one bit growing up. They were fantastic parents, couldn't have wished for better.

crumblepie Sat 29-Jun-13 15:55:04

pompeii you clearly did not understand my post , never mind smile funny how all these studies and statistics are done but you never know of or hear about anyone who has ever taken part , strange , almost like they make it up smile

Alisvolatpropiis Sat 29-Jun-13 15:57:13

crumble

The phrase "there are lies,damned lies and statistics" springs to mind grin

HeySoulSister Sat 29-Jun-13 15:58:46

By being obese you are modelling that its ok to eat crap/sugar and its ok to be fat and putting yourself at risk. Chances are your dc are eating the same.... Which is the same as them breathing in second hand smoke

Ouch. Do two wrongs make a right, though?

I could go into the long explanation about the depression I've suffered since I was 14, and how that has affected my weight, and my ability to diet, or how the antidepressants I am on have the side effect of weight gain, but I am guessing you wouldn't care.

expatinscotland Sat 29-Jun-13 16:07:41

My parents smoked when I was growing up. It didn't bother me at all. They are both still here. My dad hates that he is still here and his little granddaughter is not.

Obesity has caught up to, and in quite a few parts of the US, overtaken smoking as a leading preventable cause of death. We are not far behind.

Do you feel sorry for children of obese parents?

Those who say their weight doesn't affect their children's health are fooling themselves. Obesity is known to increase birth complications. And kill you, the mother, prematurely. Children of obese parents are more likely to become obese themselves.

But if anyone started a thread like this and inserted 'fat' for smoking the site would go afire.

HeySoulSister Sat 29-Jun-13 16:08:04

SDT.... Sorry!! Wasn't having a go at you there. Weight is a battle I have fought too. I sympathise.

pompeii Sat 29-Jun-13 16:08:16

Ah good, it appears the conspiracy theorists who think studies that show the negative affects of smoking are fabricated have joined, the debate is sure to become more sensible now.

expatinscotland Sat 29-Jun-13 16:09:19

And smoking is second only to heroin in terms of physical addiction. But they can just quit, right? Just like obese people can just lose weight.

Having watched my mum try to stop, I wouldn't say that, expat.

pompeii Sat 29-Jun-13 16:16:08

Having a parental influence introducing significant food/weight issues to a child is clearly not a good thing, but this thread is about smoking, and I'm not sure who has said parental issues with food are not harmful on it. Seems like a rather lame straw man.

flowersinavase Sat 29-Jun-13 16:18:19

Wow - some very angry smokers on here.

OP YANBU. I feel very sorry for them too. Not just because of the effects on their own health but for the fact that their selfish parents are more likely to die than non-smokers.

And yes. I feel sorry for children of obese parents too. And those who are abused. And those who live in war zones. Just because there are potentially worse situations to grow up in doesn't mean we can't feel sympathy for those forced to live surrounded by carcinogens.

Oh please I care for my kids, play with them, read to them, support them in their school studies, cook them home cooked meals from scratch nine times out of ten yet you feel sorry for them because I smoke ( outside btw and never when out and about with them)?? Not like back in the day when I was a child of a smoker and it was the social norm to smoke everywhere - buses, planes, banks etc. Fwiw neither me or my siblings ever had any chest problems as kids.

Smokers need support to kick a very addictive habit, not criticism and people looking down their noses at them.

Ballroomblitz - it would have significantly improved my life if my parents had been as considerate as you and others on this thread.

People are having children at older ages nowadays. If you smoke and have a child at age 20 then you're very unlikely to die of the effects while they are still a child. If you smoke and have a child at age 40 then the risks of bereavement become much more real. But on the upside the risks are largely dose dependent and it's very difficult nowadays to smoke 60 a day like many people did in the sixties unless you work from home and are filthy rich.

HeySoulSister Sat 29-Jun-13 16:40:43

I don't think majority of smokers are actually 'addicted'.... But it's easy for them to bandy that word around isnt it? Much easier to give up and quote 'addiction' than to deal with it and give up

I once thought I was 'addicted' to caffeine.... I wasn't
I once thought I was 'addicted' to sugar.........I wasn't

It was a good excuse to not stop tho

expatinscotland Sat 29-Jun-13 16:41:42

A lame straw man? PMSL. Lot of hard science behind it.

I don't smoke.

This thread isn't about smoking, it's about ridiculous judging that is, on MN, permitted whereas similar remarks about the parallel cause of premature deat, fat, are not.

expatinscotland Sat 29-Jun-13 16:44:15

Addiction to nicotine has been studied extensively. It is very real. Not at all comparable to sugar or caffeine but most similar to heroin addiction. I guess those people just think they are addicted, too. They can just give up.

WorraLiberty Sat 29-Jun-13 16:47:53

Having a parental influence introducing significant food/weight issues to a child is clearly not a good thing, but this thread is about smoking, and I'm not sure who has said parental issues with food are not harmful on it. Seems like a rather lame straw man.

People still don't get it.

It's not just about 'introducing significant food/weight issues to a child'

By getting pregnant when you are overweight/obese, you increase so many risks to your unborn child...that's before they're even out of the womb.

Yet pregnant smokers and smokers with children will always have the finger pointed at them.

And it's often pointed by people who had no problem increasing health risks to their own babies.

I remember feeling pretty fucking sorry for myself growing up, my endless chest infections and acute asthma, going into school reeking of smoke and being sniffed at by teachers. Paying enough attention to know that the smoke was the reason I felt so poorly, asking my mum and dad to stop and being told that they'll do what they want in their own house, thankyouverymuch.

But yabu. Because there are plenty of parents who know that breathing in smoke is harmful to their children, and go to great lengths to ensure that they never have to. Don't tar everyone with the same brush.

But I also know for a fact that children are still being brought up, despite all the evidence of the effects, in the same way that I was. And yes I do feel sorry for those children, especially if they're suffering the same way I did and their parents don't give a shit. Not only because of the smoking, but also because if their parents can recognise that they're damaging their children's health and be ok with that, then they're likely to be shit parents all round. Mine were. The smoking was just a single aspect of their neglect.

hamilton75 Sat 29-Jun-13 17:03:25

YANBU As someone who lost a parent to a horrible death from lung cancer at a relatively young age I feel sorry for all the children of parents who smoke.

Lol at the comments from smokers who consider themselves great parents - delusional much!

You can't ever be great parents until you have the guts to acknowledge your own selfishness takes priority over the love for your children. No if or buts but truth hurts.

Alisvolatpropiis Sat 29-Jun-13 17:05:52

hamilton

I am sorry for your loss.

Do you feel the same about drinking alcohol and obesity,out of interest? I'm not trying to goad you, I'm just interested.

My nanna smoked, my mum didn't. My did doesn't either.

Out of 3 siblings old enough to smoke I'm the only one that does.

Two family members have died from cancer in my family. One had lung, throat and mouth cancer the other had skin cancer. Neither smoked, drank, went out in the sun or used sunbeds etc yet they got it and died.

Therefore if death is going to get me it will no matter what I do. That is my opinion so this 'you will die younger, get cancer etc' does not phase me.

My son does not need pity. I dont smoke around him or have him light up for me. I also dont smoke in the house.

AntlersInAllOfMyDecorating Sat 29-Jun-13 17:06:58

All the facts about obesity in the world do not negate the ones about smoking.

Smoking is harmful to smokers and those around them. I do feel sorry for children of smokers, that doesn't mean I feel any less sympathy for anything else, or care whether others do or not.

LastTangoInDevonshire Sat 29-Jun-13 17:09:12

La La La La La La - sing the song again - La La La La La La.

hamilton75 Sat 29-Jun-13 17:12:05

Alisvolatpropiis

Thank you

Heavy drinkers/mortally obese as opposed to being a bit overweight or liking a tipple then yes, I suppose I do but having said that imho smoking is worse due to the passive smoking risk which doesn't really apply to drinking and eating.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WorraLiberty Sat 29-Jun-13 17:16:03

All the facts about obesity in the world do not negate the ones about smoking

No-one said it negates it.

But anyone willing to be pregnant while overweight or obese clearly isn't putting their baby first.

In exactly the same way a smoker isn't.

Risks are risks. So it's hypocritical for people to keep pointing at smokers when they were willing to take such risks with their own kids.

Alisvolatpropiis Sat 29-Jun-13 17:18:30

I understand that view hamilton.

I suppose I may well feel differently once I have children. At the moment I enjoy smoking and haven't given quitting any serious effort. That will probably change in time.

LimitedEditionLady Sat 29-Jun-13 17:19:36

I smoke.My child has never seen me smoke.None of my family smoke,just me.None of my family know I smoke.I do feel a bit sad when I see people pushing prams smoking and smoke in childrens faces.My grandfather smoked a pipe in the house when I was a kid but it's not the reason that I started smoking and in that time not long ago no one batted an eyelid.My choice to smoke doesn't affect my childs future so yrah the first paragraph fine but don't tar everyone with the same brush.There are bigger problems in this world.

pompeii Sat 29-Jun-13 17:25:24

expatinscotland, before you wet your undergarments, I suggest you look up what a straw man argument is, as it is wise to understand the terminology of a post before attempting to ridicule it.

I never said I was a great parent Hamilton and if I ever had of known I would have children believe me I wouldn't have started smoking and I actually got patches yesterday to try and stop . Nobody's a perfect parent.

I suppose what gets my back up about this thread is that, as obesity has been brought up, I certainly wouldn't start a thread about how sorry I feel for kids to obese parents. I have never been any more than a size 8 so I have no experience to judge anyone who does struggle with their weight.

Anyway I'm sure the op's got what they want. The usual lynching with angry pitchforks against smokers and the smokers getting their back up and angry too.

Adieu

I've never smoked. But I'm obese. So I'm a shit mum, and apparently the cause of all evil in the world today. Thanks for clarifying that in case it wasn't made clear to me already

expatinscotland Sat 29-Jun-13 17:36:37

One person in my family got and died of cancer in my entire family full of obese people (I am not) and my parents who smoked: my forever 9- year-old who never smoked, drank or was around that.

Life is about risks. And whilst certain behaviours make premature death more likely, nothing is guaranteed except that one day, every single one of us will die and, in the grand scheme of things, we actually have quite little control over how and when.

This is frightening, so it's common and normal to try to rationalise ourselves out of it, judge others, 'Those smokers are going to die soon, but I won't because I don' (insert behaviour),' when in fact, none of us knows FA about our own demise.

AntlersInAllOfMyDecorating Sat 29-Jun-13 17:37:24

It is also important not to overgeneralise Worra - these "people' pointing their fingers at smokers - not all of them are going to be overweight or obese. Additionally, not everyone who is overweight or obese has the choice in that - smoking: always a choice.

So I can then qualify my own statement - yes ok, there are smoking parents who take measures to minimise the effects on children, and good for them. However, returning to that anecdotal evidence that smokers love - from going to my friend's house after school for just a couple of hours and coming back stinking (uniform straight in wash etc) I do feel particularly sorry for children of smokers who are living in that environment. I don't believe you can completely remove the impact of it.

WorraLiberty Sat 29-Jun-13 17:37:31

Gwendoline what's being pointed out is the hypocrisy of people willing to judge one group but not the other.

Personally I think everyone should just chill out and stop pointing fingers full stop.

expatinscotland Sat 29-Jun-13 17:40:09

I understand completely what one is, and I never wear undergarments, pompeii. But here is some more rope, I pull it out my arse.

WorraLiberty Sat 29-Jun-13 17:40:15

Additionally, not everyone who is overweight or obese has the choice in that - smoking: always a choice.

Sorry but I think that's crap.

Smoking is an addiction, the same as many many MNetters will tell you they're addicted to food.

Both carry risks during pregnancy and both should therefore be sorted out before TTC.

One does not trump the other imo.

morethanpotatoprints Sat 29-Jun-13 17:40:35

Well you learn something everyday. Passive smoking in the open air.
Although we do live in the NW, maybe it blows away quicker than other places.
What are you on OP?

expatinscotland Sat 29-Jun-13 17:42:06

Ah, yes, obesity as a non-choice. Here we go again.

I don't smoke, am not overweight, drink once in a while.

expatinscotland Sat 29-Jun-13 17:42:48

Still going to die, though.

pompeii Sat 29-Jun-13 17:43:09

You clearly don't, however I'm not really interested in reasoning with somebody who responds in non sequiturs.

AntlersInAllOfMyDecorating Sat 29-Jun-13 17:44:45

People can be overweight due to health reasons, or are naturally larger. Yes, I accept that it is predominantly lifestyle choice. And yes, before TTC, fine. Someone still had to make the choice to start smoking - to become addicted. True of eating a burger, or drinking alcohol yes, but no less so for smoking.

expatinscotland Sat 29-Jun-13 17:45:16

Touché, pompeii. I love it when people get insulting and personal. Still fun, even after 9 years on here.

LimitedEditionLady Sat 29-Jun-13 17:50:05

My great grandmother smoked like a chimney and drank brandy like water every day and lived until 96 with no real health problems over that age related.How do I explain that?I have no clue.Everyone is different.

1Veryhungrycaterpillar Sat 29-Jun-13 17:50:12

My parents smoked around us all the time and we grew up to smoke but I really think I took it up because my friends did it rather than my parents. I gave it when I fell pregnant and it was bloody hard, I was lucky enough to be with a supportive partner who gave it with me, some people have such stressful lives that I'd rather they had a couple of fags than shout their heads off. Most people who smoke seem to try not to do it around their kids, it's not the best thing and its not the worst and if you never been addicted you can never know wat it's like

WorraLiberty Sat 29-Jun-13 17:51:00

Someone still had to make the choice to start smoking - to become addicted. True of eating a burger, or drinking alcohol yes, but no less so for smoking.

Yes and they may have made the choice to start smoking when they were young and immature...believing they would never get addicted.

People also make a choice to eat nothing but crap in massive portions...believing they won't get addicted.

But all that ^^ is by the by.

If you're going to grow a new life inside you, you should do all you can to give it the safest possible start.

No matter what your vices or addictions are.

That's why all this judging is so stupid.

AntlersInAllOfMyDecorating Sat 29-Jun-13 17:56:00

I agreed with you about trying to conceive Worra. But then there are endless other things: use of money, use of time, attitude towards driving, use of alcohol, personal fitness, attitude that all have an impact on how you shape your family.

I am a teacher who sees daily children who have not been given the best starts in life by a parent for any one or a plethora of reasons. I hope things like Surestart and breakfast clubs have maybe made a difference in some of these issues.

WorraLiberty Sat 29-Jun-13 18:00:11

Exactly Antlers

That's why these smoking threads (and there have been so many this week!) are laughable.

They just come across to me as hugely hypocritical.

Littleballofhate Sat 29-Jun-13 18:04:08

My mum has smoked since she was 15 yrs old. My brother and I were both pre- mature, suffered from ear infections, and we're massively carsick from all the cooped up cig smoke on long drives. Somewhere along the time, mum saw how second hand smoke affects children. She no longer smokes inside her home, and never has smoked near my children. My brother and I have never been smokers.
I wish my mother did not smoke. I understand what a demon nicotine addiction is though. Please do not judge other parents so harshly, op. one day you may be judged.

LastTangoInDevonshire Sat 29-Jun-13 18:04:29

Let he who is without sin..........and all that jazz !

AnnieonAMapleLeaf - you didn't say you smoked round your children - you didn't say either way, hence my question.

What would you say to a parent who refused to stop smoking arou d their child even when that child told them that the smoke was making them feel ill - because that is what my mum did.

As I said a while ago, had I had a parent who, like you, didn't ever smoke around their children, my life would have been much better. But I didn't, and there are still plenty of children whose parents smoke around them, and I reserve the right to feel sorry for those children and to judge those parents.

JuicySausage Sat 29-Jun-13 18:05:33

Pompeii, I find your sneering a tad narcissistic.

HTH.

LimitedEditionLady Sat 29-Jun-13 18:13:27

Meh this is getting boring now. Feel sorry for whoever you want,they dont know so it doesn't really make any difference.
Get a sandeich board write some witty message on and follow people around if you really are bothered.

Dawndonna Sat 29-Jun-13 18:14:55

It wasn't really trying to be a strawman argument though, was it Pompeii, just positing a different theory.

pompeii Sat 29-Jun-13 18:24:48

Donna, I disagree, responding to a number of points about parental smoking being a negative thing with an argument that boils to "parental obesity is bad, yet you think that is OK" is to attack a viewpoint that nobody expressed and is the essence of a straw man.

1Veryhungrycaterpillar Sat 29-Jun-13 18:26:17

I feel sorry for Strawmen around smokers, they don't stand a chance!

pompeii Sat 29-Jun-13 18:26:57

Thanks sausage, however in my defence being confronted with people who still believe studies that show smoking to be a bad thing to be fake, and someone who cannot respond in a logically coherent manner is rather trying.

Caterpillar grin

RoooneyMara Sat 29-Jun-13 18:35:43

I can understand why some people smoke. I have my own issues. I'm a bad parent sometimes, in some ways.

But yes I feel sorry for anyone who has no choice but to be around a smoker. Only in the sense that I HATE the smell of cigarettes, I really, really hate it and it makes me feel sick.

I don't think everyonewho smokes is a bad parent though. I have known some fantastic smokers who were parents too. (I say were, he died when he was 46? I think) but he was a brilliant parent while he was alive and I loved him very much.

He was bloody unlucky. His smoking never made me dislike him. I onlly disliked the smoke - if that makes sense and yes, I still feel sorry for children who are stuck around smoke, purely because the smoke is nasty. They might be getting some fantastic parenting though...that's nothing to do with smoking.

LimitedEditionLady Sat 29-Jun-13 18:36:56

Caterpillar hahaha yes.

MamaChubbyLegs Sat 29-Jun-13 18:44:46

You have absolutely no right or business feeling sorry for mychild. Not all smokers let their children breathe in fumes. My DP smokes outside, never in the car, and does it out of DS' vision.

You are NBU to feel sorry for children who have to breathe in smoke, but not all smokers are made the same. YABU to feel sorry for my very much loved and adored DS because his dad smokes.

He will grow up learning that smoking is an unhealthy addiction, and will probably have to watch my DP going through hell to give up.

Feel sorry for children who are unloved and abused.

Think your judgy pants might be giving you a bit of a camel toe tbh hmm

Dawndonna Sat 29-Jun-13 19:12:33

pompeii You joined today and have come along and slated people. I don't understand your logic?
Oh, and actually it wasn't a strawman argument. At no point did it change or misrepresent the view originally put forward, it just posited another theory alongside.

hels71 Sat 29-Jun-13 20:28:42

I feel sorry for my friend's children. She smokes (or rather smoked). She thought it was not a problem as she always did it outside away from the children etc. She is now working out how to tell her children aged 10 and 8 that by this time next year they will almost certainly be motherless due to lung cancer.

MamaChubbyLegs Sat 29-Jun-13 20:51:23

That's a heartbreaking situation hels71 sad

To be honest, it terrifies me that something awful might happen to my DP, but you know hindsight is a wonderful thing. Don't think he would have started if he knew how difficult it would be to stop.

I think I'm gonna gear myself up for the giving up conversation again soon. I suppose I have more leverage now that we have DS, for precisely the reason you mention.

He's such a wonderful father though. I just hate the thought that there are people out there who look down on him for a bad decision he made when he was a child himself (he wasn't around smoking parents)

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CuriosityCola Sun 30-Jun-13 04:12:22

I don't understand the mentality on mumsnet that as there are children worse off, we can't/shouldn't feel sorry for those with smoking parents.

My immediate and extended family all smoked when I was younger. My mum smoked through her pregnancy and around myself and siblings despite me having really bad asthma from birth. She has now quit for just over a year. She didn't like (smoking outside when visiting) being the grandparent that smoked. Not sure why she could give up so easily for her grandchild and not me, but very proud she has managed it.

My mum is and has always been an amazing parent, but there is no denying her smoking was incredibly selfish. I think it is right to feel sorry for those children surrounded by smokers.

MyBaby1day Sun 30-Jun-13 04:25:06

YANBU, I also feel so sorry for them!. I think it's abuse, will never let my DS breathe in peoples poison smoke!.

sashh Sun 30-Jun-13 04:47:05

I hated having smoking parents - it was a miserable experience.

Ditto

Smelling bad all the time.
Asking for no one to smoke in my bedroom and finding fag ends in my bin.
having my plate of food shoved aside for an ashtray.
having to cover my legs in the car because the window was open and hot ash was flying onto me.

CuriosityCola Sun 30-Jun-13 07:13:51

sassh I could have written that list. Also used to hate going to school stinking of smoke. My uniform used to stink, especially if it rained.

madhairday Sun 30-Jun-13 10:19:13

Those who say they're good parents, it's up to them, stop being judgmental, etc - I have no doubt that you're good parents and love your dc very very much. I just have experience from the other side which makes me possibly slightly blinkered on this one. I know what it is to suffer a horrible lung disease with increasing pain, it's miserable, miserable, miserable for me and those around me. Would you want that for your dc? I appreciate those who say they do not smoke around their dc, but you still need to ask yourself if you want that for yourself. Yes, we all die sometime, but surely you'd prefer not to do so in such a horrible way?

90% of COPD sufferers smoked. Go figure.

It's a horrific disease. This is not only about cancer.

Please, please, for the sake of you and your dc, do not do this to yourself.

I am not hoiking my judgy pants at this stage. I am merely trying to communicate the sheer awfulness of what this can do to you. No one should have to live through such horrible disease sad

crashdoll Sun 30-Jun-13 10:27:32

My mum smoked for most of my childhood. She never smoked in the house or near food or near our clothes or in the car while we were in there. She wasn't selfish with her smoking. She recently gave up after being diagnosed with cancer. She was and still is a wonderful parent. Don't feel sorry for me, we have a lovely relationship and as cliché as it sounds, she is my best friend.

HairyPotter Sun 30-Jun-13 10:44:05

My parents both smoked. I used to beg them to stop because I was terrified they would die from it. I was always smelly. I was miserable.

The both died when I was 29/30. My dad, days before the birth of his first grandchild and my mum when my dd was 18 months. Both smoking related deaths.

It's not enough not not smoke in front of your children. They learn so much about the dangers of it at school and in the media, they know perfectly well what might happen to you. I can't tell you how many times I lay awake in bed, worrying about them dying.

Yanbu

It's fine, AnnieOnAMapleLeaf - it is a very emotive subject, and we had a bit of a miscommunication. thanks

Pigsmummy Sun 30-Jun-13 11:36:35

I hated that my parents smoked when I was growing up, I hated holidays because it would mean sitting in a car with them for hours and hours not wanting to breathe in. They did open the windows but it doesn't get rid of the smoke, actually blasts it towards the back. I hated that my clothes smelled of it and I got picked on at school for smelling. I hated kissing my parents hello/goodbye if they had recently smoked.

I hated that we were taught the dangers of smoking in school. i.e. that it kills you and I regularly used cry to my Mum to give up. I would have given up all my toys and any pocket money gladly if she would. (I did offer that aged about 7).

I hated the drive in the middle of the night to the hospital where my Mum was being franticially resuscitated as she had respiratory failure brought on by years of smoking (even though she had given up by then). I hated that my father in law dropped down dead on normal Thursday morning, aged 55 from a heart attack. His death certificate said myopic infarction and smoking.

No child likes that their parent smokes, they will also hate it, maybe not for the same reasons as I did but they will.

BegoniaBampot Sun 30-Jun-13 12:02:04

that's why i post on these threads. i think people should hear how it can affect the children of smokers both physically and mentally. my mum was a very selfish smoker and know many parents try to be more considerate but your children might lie crying at night as i did. or had to nurse my mum when she was dying of lung cancer when she was still quite young.

siezethenight Sun 30-Jun-13 12:20:15

Oh my poor children... 22, 20 and 16. Never smoked a fag in their lives and they grew up with a putrid smelling, chimney pot mother... Neither of my brothers smoke either. Don't think anybody does actually in my family. I am the sole stander outsider once every 2/3 hours... I sit with my cats out there - does this mean my cats are in danger? Please don't call the RSPCA... Do they make cat gas masks!?

hackmum Sun 30-Jun-13 12:20:19

My parents were smokers. Looking back I do feel sorry for me as a child - I had quite severe asthma too. My parents were wonderful in many respects, loving, kind and devoted, but being around cigarette smoke is horrible. When I got older, I hated being around friends who smoked - when I was in my late teens and early 20s, a lot of people smoked, it was still possible to smoke in pubs, restaurants and cinemas, and you had absolutely no choice but to put up with it. It was revolting to come home after an evening out with a sore throat, sore eyes and clothes absolutely reeking of cigarette smoke. I think the smoking ban in this country has been a wonderful thing. I also think that these days there is no excuse for smoking - when my parents started smoking they didn't know any better but people now know that smoking is both harmful and highly addictive.

bellablot Sun 30-Jun-13 12:30:22

Try not to be so judgmental, there are a lot of parents who smoke around their children, I hate it, my parents did exactly that but I don't give a shit if anyone wants to do it and I certainly wouldn't waste your energy feeling sorry for the said children, if they want to smoke they will regardless of whether their parents have or have not.

I would asking yourself why you even think about meaningless things like this. hmm

everlong Sun 30-Jun-13 12:39:15

Good to hear from all the people whose parents smoked during their childhood.

A true perspective.

Pigsmummy Sun 30-Jun-13 12:42:16

I hadn't linked car sickness to smoking before but now I realise that it was my parents car (several different ones though childhood) that I got very car sick in and not other, non smokers such as my grand parents (who I went on equally long journeys with).

CuriosityCola Sun 30-Jun-13 13:05:01

bellablot it's not meaningless if it triggers past experience for the person observing. I don't think anyone would deny that smoking in front of children endangers their health, therefore it makes sense to feel for them.

CuriosityCola Sun 30-Jun-13 13:07:36

www.cancerresearchuk.org/cancer-info/healthyliving/smokingandtobacco/childrenandsmoking/smoking-and-cancer-children-and-smoking

'Siblings and parents are role models for children. If a child’s parents smoke they are three times more likely to smoke themselves.'

angeleyes1978 Sun 30-Jun-13 13:19:29

my parents smoked and i ran a marathon last year. both my parents are still alive and perfectly healthy but my friends parents never smoked and died in their 60s and my friend has breathing problems. dont know what the fuss is about

pooka Sun 30-Jun-13 13:30:25

My mum smokes. She's brilliant. Please don't feel sorry for me. I'm very happy and healthy, thanks.

She's in her seventies. She doesn't drink at all, and is a healthy weight. Exercises, rides her bike everywhere.

Her father was a smoker until he gave up when he was in his 60s. He died at 80. Her mother wasn't a smoker. Lived until 95, but a half life for about 8 years as she descended into hideous dementia. The last five years of her life were beyond hell and put an incredible strain on her and the whole family.

Buddhagirl Sun 30-Jun-13 14:30:24

I think it's grim and unacceptable Yanbu.

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS Sun 30-Jun-13 14:35:44

Yanbu. It is another inequality that some children face.

dontgowadingin Sun 30-Jun-13 15:08:21

It's very fucking selfish ! I hate it. Seen a woman buttoning up a toddlers coats with a fag hanging of her lips with the smoke going in the kids face!

People smoking in cars with kids in need their mouths rammed on to the exhaust pipe, see how they like it.

hamilton75 Sun 30-Jun-13 15:23:04

I truly believe that if people saw the ugly truth about lung cancer and other smoking related illness up close and personal then many more would stop. My died was fit and healthy and playing golf the day before he was diagnosed, never been in hospital in his life and yet was dead 3 weeks later.

I think a lot of people have the mistaken impression that they will feel ill, go to the docs/have an op/chemo and Bob's your uncle. Lung cancer isn't like that. Most of the time (vast majority of people) don't know about it until its already spread and is too late. I've known 3 people with lung cancer lasted no more than a month from diagnosis.

Honestly, do the smokers on here stop and think there is a real possibility that by continuing to smoke you might not be alive this time next month even? that's the harsh reality. I just can't understand how anyone, especially with young children, could do this if they are really aware of the facts.

BegoniaBampot Sun 30-Jun-13 18:36:51

Yes, my mum was going to the gym and power walking. 7 weeks later she was gone - that fast and it's not pretty.

HarrietSchulenberg Sun 30-Jun-13 18:48:08

My parents are lifelong anti-smokers. With a passion. I grew up to be a smoker for a long time. Doesn't necessarily follow that a child will follow their parents' lifestyle.

amandine07 Sun 30-Jun-13 18:55:49

YANBU

I think the OP was making the point that they felt sorry for the child having to be in a passive smoking environment and exposed to all the potential health risks that go with it.

I'd feel a bit sorry for those kids too as they have no choice but to live in a smokers environment at home- if the parents smoke indoors as well, the smell gets everywhere but is only really obvious to a non-smoker.

I don't think OP was saying that the parents are intrinsically bad or evil, but just that they felt sorry for the kid having to put up with their parents smoking.
To me that's not unreasonable.

I'm not denying that there are other worse things out there that OP could have written about. It's just that smoking is a pretty grim habit- my OH smokes and I've started to despise it more as time goes on.

JazzDalek Sun 30-Jun-13 18:55:56

Me too HarrietSchulenberg. Neither of my parents ever smoked, and they were and are VERY anti, to the point where my dad rants if someone is shown smoking on TV hmm

All five of their children did or do smoke. I hid it from them for years, even as an adult, because I knew a nuclear shit-storm would ensue if they (mainly Dad) found out shock. He still doesn't know I ever smoked.

LookingForwardToMarch Sun 30-Jun-13 18:57:33

Yanbu

I was a heavy smoker...until I decided I really wanted a family.

Hate seeing pregnant women fagging it or someone smoking near their babies.

Yes it was hard giving up but it's selfish not to and it's like some bury their heads in the sand and convince themselves it's not really that bad.

scottishmummy Sun 30-Jun-13 19:01:59

Save your indignant ire for kids who suffer emotional,physical neglect greater than smoking parents

amandine07 Sun 30-Jun-13 19:02:25

pigsmummy
Your post has totally summed up why I agree with the OP and I do feel sorry for kids who have to live in a smokers' environment.

amandine07 Sun 30-Jun-13 19:06:16

It's not 'indignant ire' it's simply feeling sorry for those children having to be surrounded by smoke the whole time.

And trying to minimise it by comparing it to physical/emotional/psychological abuse that goes on does not lessen the impact for the individual child.
Just read the heartfelt post by pigsmummy

scottishmummy Sun 30-Jun-13 19:09:46

On the contrary I do think its indignant ire.very much so
I don't smoke,never have.i don't think smoking parent=feeling sorry for child
I do think there are other things I consider greater encroachment upon happy childhood than smoking

Scottishmummy - does it count as physical neglect that my mother refused to stop smoking in the car, even though it gave me a terrible headache and made me sick?

What about all the second-hand smoke I was forced to inhale for the first 18 years of my life? And possibility that it has contributed to the chest infections and throat infections I get each time I have a cold?

scottishmummy Sun 30-Jun-13 19:19:52

Address those earnest questions to your parents,I can't answer
Ask them.

LookingForwardToMarch Sun 30-Jun-13 19:20:59

I just can't get my head around justifying smoking around children by saying 'oh well they could have worse'

There are bad things happening to children all the time but why does that mean smoking shouldn't be seen as that big a problem for the poor mites?

scottishmummy Sun 30-Jun-13 19:22:00

I don't think children are poor mites.how very sentimental of you

LookingForwardToMarch Sun 30-Jun-13 19:25:35

Oh ofcourse one must not get sentimental or emotional over children.

How silly of me.

scottishmummy Sun 30-Jun-13 19:50:49

Yes,indeed it is silly if over-sentimentality clouds or impedes judgement

LookingForwardToMarch Sun 30-Jun-13 20:04:14

I think you'll find it is your judgement which is clouded. ( I'll resist the bitchy urge to say by smoke)

Just take a look at your logic. One thing is not as bad as another so we shouldn't feel sorry for those affected by it?

scottishmummy Sun 30-Jun-13 20:10:11

Clouded By smoke? I'm a non smoker I've never smoked.
I don't think bad health choices eg diet/alcohol/smoke necessarily make one a bad parent
Ideally parents shouldn't impose poor health choice on kids,ideally no child would have poor diet,exposure to smoking,alcohol. But pragmatically life sometimes isn't ideal

Scottishmummy - you stated it was not neglect, I was asking your opinion. I know my mum's opinion - she saw nothing wrong in carrying on smoking when she knew it made me feel ill, when I had asked her to stop.

I can't ask my father - he dropped dead in 2000 of smoking-related illness.

But that doesn't matter, because I was asking you to examine the evidence of my story, and give me your opinion.

I suspect you don't want to, because there is no way you can argue that what my mother did is exemplary parenting, and you don't want to admit there might be a flaw in your argument.

LookingForwardToMarch Sun 30-Jun-13 20:21:20

You may not smoke but seemingly are trying to make light of the proven damage it causes by saying there are worse things.
Agreed it isn't ideal for nutrition and other factors to be poor either. Also agree that if the parent chooses to smoke/ overeat etc. then that is their right.
What I don't agree with is allowing these choices to damage their childrens health, that IS bad parenting in my book.
But hey I think we may have to agree to disagree.

amandine07 Sun 30-Jun-13 20:22:36

SDT
Your post as well illustrates for me for why I feel sorry for children who have to put up with passive smoking at home or in the car or wherever.

Scottishmummy
Yes, there may be other things that are considered worse than smoking parents, but again I would say just read the posts of those who grew up in smoking households...it's clear that they were affected by it and in several different ways.

NiniPoop Sun 30-Jun-13 20:42:38

YANBU, my parents smoked (still do) and it was disgusting. My brother had asthma and other respiratory problems, us DC, our clothes and our house must have stank.

I feel sorry for DC whose parents smoke because I know what it's like to grow up as a child in a smoking household.

foreverondiet Sun 30-Jun-13 20:57:07

Yanbu - and can't compare to overweight parents as this doesn't directly affect the child's health - same with breastfeeding - health differences appear to be marginal. But smoking proven to be terrible for children's health. Very selfish.

girliefriend Sun 30-Jun-13 21:00:05

yanbu but am sure mn will find a way to make you feel like you are wink

AntlersInAllOfMyDecorating Sun 30-Jun-13 21:01:09

Well said pigsmummy all these stories - and of those who have to watch/ help parents suffer from smoking related illness/ cancer. Really brings it home.

scottishmummy Sun 30-Jun-13 21:13:53

Based solely on limited information that your parents smoked sdt
I can't be expected to make judgement on whether or not they were neglectful
That's your call to make,not mine.i don't think smoking renders one bad parent

That is not the only information I gave you. The question I asked was whether my mother was neglectful when she refused to stop smoking in the car, despite my telling her that it made me carsick and gave me a dreadful headache.

And both of them smoked constantly around my sister and I, from birth onwards, so we were constantly exposed to second hand smoke - are you suggesting that was good parenting?

Widening the question - is it ever good parenting for parents to smoke constantly around their children?

scottishmummy Sun 30-Jun-13 21:27:43

I'm not biting,so try your hyperbole with someone else

Frankly I knew you wouldn't answer my questions, because it would involve you backing down from your previously stated position.

I am slightly surprised that you can't answer the question about whether it is good parenting to smoke constantly round children - I threw that one in because it is so piss-easy to answer. Oh - and the answer is No, it is not good parenting to smoke constantly round children, because second hand smoke is bad for them.

Did that sound patronising? Good.

scottishmummy Sun 30-Jun-13 21:44:01

No,you're simply asking what I cannot confidently answer given your info
You lived it,it's your subjective experience
If you think your parents were neglectful thats your pov

LookingForwardToMarch Sun 30-Jun-13 21:44:28

I think anyone with a smidge of sense can see that doing anything that causes lasting damage to your children knowingly is bad parenting.

Well I hope so anyway.

Well, it seems reasonably obvious to me, but scottishmummy is not going to answer my question, because she can't do so without contradicting herself somewhat.

scottishmummy Sun 30-Jun-13 21:53:49

Yes ideally every child should not exposed to harmful agents
I don't think smoking necessarily make someone bad parent

I haven't said it does, scottishmummy. Earlier on in the thread I agreed that someone who smokes but never around the children, in the house or in the car, is not being a bad parent.

But what my parents did was bad parenting. They chose to smoke, my little sister and I had no such choice, from babyhood we were breathing mum and dad's second hand smoke. And my mum cared more about having a cigarette in the car than the fact that it was making me carsick and giving me a headache. I call that bad parenting - do you disagree??

LookingForwardToMarch Sun 30-Jun-13 22:07:51

Agreed, smoking alone does not a bad parent make.

But when that parent smokes around their kids, knowing damn well it is harming them, then I think you can safely call them a bad parent.

Yes their kids may be well looked after in every other sense, but if they are damaging their health it is still bad parenting.

Twooter Sun 30-Jun-13 22:15:44

Yanbu

dontgowadingin Sun 30-Jun-13 23:49:07

Smoking around children IS bad parenting! It is proven to be deadly.

1944girl Mon 01-Jul-13 00:06:54

I am a smoker.
I am teetotal though.My father was an alchoholic and I grew up realising how addiction to alchohol can cause destruction and misery in a family.
I am not saying that anyone who drinks is an alchoholic but I have seen the worst that it can do.

morethanpotatoprints Mon 01-Jul-13 00:25:37

I was just wondering how many parents who smoke actually smoke in the house at all these days. All the smokers I know don't, infact I know a few who have bought awnings as a shelter at the back of their houses.
I haven't seen parents smoking in cars recently with dc in the back.
i think we are a lot better educated in the effect of smoking near dc now and with the smoking ban passive smoking is virtually non existent

ChasingDogs Mon 01-Jul-13 00:32:07

Meh, my parents both smoke and it never bothered me. I actually liked the faggy smell of my dad's shirts and jumpers when I was little blush Didn't like it too much in the car, as it would get all concentrated but an "Urgh! Open the window!" would get the job done I found.

I took up smoking in secondary school, not because my parents did, but because all my friends did. Now on ecigs and cutting down on that too. I won't defend smoking itself, it's bloody stupid and we all know that perfectly well. However it is also incredibly hard to quit, and unless you've been there I think knee jerk judgement about how selfish it is, how you should just stop etc., is a bit detached from reality.

My da is great. My ma has had mental health issues since I can remember that are challenging for us all. But all in all they're good people who did their best at parenting, and did a bloody good job for most of it. Certainly don't need sympathy for the fact they smoked. confused

To be fair I was more at risk from all the animals and rusty old machinery and guns and the dens we dug out underground (they invariably collapsed on our heads. None of us became civil engineers). But I don't want sympathy for that either cause it was bloody good fun grin

hels71 Mon 01-Jul-13 08:29:20

My friend thought that giving up smoking was just too hard to do. She now thinks it might have been easier than telling her children she is going to die however.......

LookingForwardToMarch Mon 01-Jul-13 08:34:59

Yeah giving up smoking is hard not impossible.

If a woman like me can give up ( and I have zero will power, seriously never let a cake near me ) then anyone can.

Bleating that it's hard doesn't take away from the fact you are harming your children if you smoke near them.

tankflybosswalkjamnittygritty Mon 01-Jul-13 09:50:35

There are far worse things a parent can do then smoke.

I love your nickname, jamwalk!

WorraLiberty Mon 01-Jul-13 10:17:19

Looking it's interesting that you view people stating that cracking an addiction is hard, as 'bleating'.

Why not pop over to the weight loss topic and tell them to stop bleating about food addiction?

Or find your local drug/alcohol clinic and tell them the same thing?

I'm sure you'll be very welcome...

LillyGrinter Mon 01-Jul-13 10:33:47

My parents smoked (dad smoked cigars). I had a wonderful childhood and I've never smoked!

cory Mon 01-Jul-13 12:04:37

Dh had lovely parents who saw to all his emotional needs. But his asthma improved no end when he moved out of a smokey environment. Physical needs are quite important too. Those asthma attacks were frightening for him. They took their emotional toll too.

Their fairly hearty drinking never landed him in hospital. The smoking did.

LookingForwardToMarch Mon 01-Jul-13 12:22:11

Worral I used to have a hard drug addiction myself and yes I view moaning about how hard it is to stop as 'bleating'
I tend to find those complaining how hard it is aren't actually trying to stop, they just use the fact its difficult to excuse not even trying.
There is a massive amount of free support and help available to people with addictions. I feel no sympathy for anyone who doesn't do the best for their children.

PrettyKitty1986 Mon 01-Jul-13 12:27:34

I'm also in agreement to the 'bleating'.

Friends frequently look at me wistfully and say 'Oh you are good. I wish I could stop' (I've been quit for 5 months).

You could if you tried. You just have to want it enough. If you don't want to, fine...just don't try kidding other people that you 'can't'

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