AIBU to think Nigella has no right to feel frustrated?

(232 Posts)
GiveMumABreak Sun 23-Jun-13 21:25:01

'Nigella feels frustrated that the whole world has an opinion about something she feels is a private situation.'

'Nigella feels her hand has been forced.'

'Nigella told friends she wants to rebuild her troubled relationship with millionaire art collector Mr Saatchi and insisted: 'I am not some sort of battered wife.'

AIBU to think: She is a celebrity chef (and role model)who had her photo taken in a public place. We are shocked and concerned - not just nosey, or should the whole world just mind their own business (as she would clearly prefer)?

article here

saintmerryweather Sun 23-Jun-13 21:26:28

shes entitled to her feelings surely?

Shakey1500 Sun 23-Jun-13 21:27:29

I think she has a right to feel however she feels?

Whatever the situation, I think I would also feel hmm that seemingly thousands of people are discussing my business.

pictish Sun 23-Jun-13 21:27:35

I think Nigella has every right to feel however she pleases about it.
I don't agree with her...but her feelings are her right to have. Her marriage is not actually public property however much we might dissaprove of it.

MrGeresHamster Sun 23-Jun-13 21:27:39

YABU, she has a right to be frustrated that all and sundry have an opinion on her personal life. If she is in an abusive relationship, the scrutiny doesn't necessarily give her an easy way out...

YABU to post a link to the DM without a warning.

Buzzardbird Sun 23-Jun-13 21:28:19

She is entitled to her feelings as disallusioned as they might be

FourEyesGood Sun 23-Jun-13 21:28:43

I read an interesting piece in the Guardian over the weekend that suggested that any victim of domestic violence should not be put under pressure to respond in any way at all; that it should be entirely in her hands. It is her situation and her decision. Just because someone is in the public eye it does not mean that the public should be allowed to make huge decisions on his/her behalf.

Alisvolatpropiis Sun 23-Jun-13 21:30:00

Yabu

Were she not in the public eye she would not have to contend with complete and utter strangers talking about her on websites like this.

She doesn't have to like the everybody feels they know better than her what she should so next.

IrisScentedCandle Sun 23-Jun-13 21:30:31

I get what you're saying but if she was thinking clearly she would already have left him. Her thinking is distorted because she has normalised the abuse.

The night I left my abusive x, I cried because he would feel sorry for himself. She'll get there, I hope. But denial is a force field that disintegrate overnight.

IrisScentedCandle Sun 23-Jun-13 21:30:53

that doesn't disintegrate over night I mean

Pagwatch Sun 23-Jun-13 21:30:56

Jesus Christ. Leave the woman alone.

GiveMumABreak Sun 23-Jun-13 21:31:41

Oops I didn't realise bout the link to blush

Seems IABU blush

squeakytoy Sun 23-Jun-13 21:31:52

She was eating a meal in private, she has every right to expect the paparazzi not to be zooming their lenses in on her while she goes about her private life.

None of us other than her, and her husband, know what was going on.

If she had been in front of a camera being officially filmed it would be different, but that was not the case.

squeakytoy Sun 23-Jun-13 21:33:18

"I get what you're saying but if she was thinking clearly she would already have left him. Her thinking is distorted because she has normalised the abuse"

again, unless you know her personally and have witnessed any incidents then that is just idle speculation

dozily Sun 23-Jun-13 21:34:42

I haven't read it, but did she really say these things ot are they all from so-called "friends"?

GiveMumABreak Sun 23-Jun-13 21:35:34

I suppose you are quite right iris she will get to where she does in her own good time, even though her hand has been forced by these photos (which were taken in a public place, not a long lense into their home / garden etc)

ManifestoMT Sun 23-Jun-13 21:35:53

Billie holiday sums it up I think

Ain't Nobody's Business if I Do"

There ain't nothin' I can do or nothin' I can say
That folks don't criticize me but I'm going to do
Just as I want to anyway
And don't care just what people say

If I should take a notion, to jump into the ocean
Ain't nobody's business if I do
If I go to church on Sunday, then cabaret all day Monday
Ain't nobody's business if I do

If my man ain't got no money and I say, "Take all of mine, honey"

Ain't nobody's business if I do
If I give him my last nickel and it leaves me in a pickle
Ain't nobody's business if I do

Well, I'd rather my man would hit me
Than follow him to jump up and quit me
Ain't nobody's business if I do
I swear I won't call no copper, if I'm beat up by my papa
Ain't nobody's business if I do, nobody's business
Ain't nobody's business, nobody's business if I do

m.youtube.com/watch?v=rVwxCRy2jfI

Purple2012 Sun 23-Jun-13 21:36:06

Yabu. It's not that simple for victims of abuse

Why did that guy not pack the suitcase properly? Bit indiscreet?

IrisScentedCandle Sun 23-Jun-13 21:37:39

Right squeakytoy, so she hasn't normalised the abuse then. confused hmm

fengirl1 Sun 23-Jun-13 21:37:42

What Pag said. The poor woman has enough to deal with.

squeakytoy Sun 23-Jun-13 21:40:38

How do you know she has Iris? How exactly?

I am not saying that this was abuse, I am not saying it wasnt, because all I have seen is the same as you.. a few papparazzi shots that prove nothing at all.

IrisScentedCandle Sun 23-Jun-13 21:41:44

ps, and her husband doesn't know what was going on ffs. He believes it was a playful tiff, and he 'was there'. This obsession by the apologists for 'being there'. The photos show us what happened. There's no angle or explanation that makes it suddenly ok.

GiveMumABreak Sun 23-Jun-13 21:41:47

But squeaky...a public personality in a public restaurant, I don't think privacy can be expected.

Yes dozily as you say, so called "friends" made those statements hmm

Follyfoot Sun 23-Jun-13 21:43:24

YABU. The public now know some of what is going on in her life, how absolutely horrible for her. Public 'shock and concern' is of no help to her and probably increases her humiliation.

My DV case was in the local papers, and on one occasion was the headline news. You cannot imagine how degrading it is to have your personal life picked over by other people.

I hope she finds the courage and support to do the right thing, but as has been said, that decision should be in her hands alone.

IrisScentedCandle Sun 23-Jun-13 21:44:38

eh doh squeaky, if the statements to her friends are true that she wants to go back to him then yes she has normalised the abuse.

You are wrong and quite odd to say that the photographs don't prove she was being abused. At the very least, she was being abused there and then, for 27 minutes, and it wasn't the first time, there is other photographic evidence.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sun 23-Jun-13 21:44:51

Her business, nobody elses. Why are some people so nosey? Don't they have things going on in their own lives to pay attention to? Nobody deserves intrusion into their personal lives, no matter who they are and anybody that feels they have a right to that information is deluded.

squeakytoy Sun 23-Jun-13 21:45:38

"a public personality in a public restaurant, I don't think privacy can be expected"

so would it be ok for a random photographer to take a photo of you whilst you went out during the day, and put it on a website? and then for the general public to decide they know more about your private life than you do?

she is famous for being a chef, and was eating a meal privately at a restaurant.. the media have no moral right to take photos, celebrity or not

GiveMumABreak Sun 23-Jun-13 21:46:06

purple I think you've said it well, it's just not that simple.

I'm sure we'd love to see an immediate and positive decision, showing us that she just won't stand for it!....but it's not that simple in any relationship (whether the lenses are trained on you or not)

IrisScentedCandle Sun 23-Jun-13 21:47:22

Follyfoot, although she probably does feel more humiliated than she's every felt right now, that might galvanise her to leave. If this hadn't happened then I guess she would have just put up with the bad, taken the "rough" with the smooth as they say.

That's typical of somebody who's been abused though, to care less about actually being happy than appearing to be happy.

Have thrashed all this out with my psychotherapist. It was humiliation that finally forced my hand, so I hope that some good comes out of her humiliation.

IrisScentedCandle Sun 23-Jun-13 21:48:18

Squeaky, best brushed under the carpet yeh? it'd be better if nobody knew how bad it had got for her.

squeakytoy Sun 23-Jun-13 21:48:19

Iris, do you not perhaps think that you may be projecting your own bad experience here?

Pagwatch Sun 23-Jun-13 21:49:14

We?

'we' don't want to see her do anything.

RetroRita Sun 23-Jun-13 21:49:34

We are shocked and concerned

Who are you to be concerned? Are you family? A close friend?

I would suggest you mind your own business and get a life instead of worrying about someone that doesn't even know you exist

WorraLiberty Sun 23-Jun-13 21:49:38

YABU

She's entitled to feel however she wants to feel.

I'm not surprised she feels her hand has been forced over this. She's no doubt excruciatingly embarrassed about the whole thing being plastered across the media, simply because of the job she happens to do.

IrisScentedCandle Sun 23-Jun-13 21:49:50

no squeaky I do not. I wonder what is going on with you though, that you can look at photos that clearly show a man abusing his wife, (and it is not the first set of photographs in a public place that show this) and deduce that the photographs prove nothing. I wonder what on earth could make you think that.

GiveMumABreak Sun 23-Jun-13 21:50:28

How awful for you folly I'm sure terribly upsetting! flowers

But a celebrity might expect a certain degree of public interest (especially considering shed been papped at that restaurant frequently)

WorraLiberty Sun 23-Jun-13 21:51:18

Iris there's a big difference in brushing something under the carpet, and having it forcibly out there in the press for all the guillotine knitters to bump their gums over.

IrisScentedCandle Sun 23-Jun-13 21:51:30

Squeaky your attitude explains why women fear they won't be believed. That you can look at these photos and say that they prove nothing beggars belief frankly. Who are you? CS's sister?

Nanny0gg Sun 23-Jun-13 21:53:56

But she's now papped everywhere.
I can understand how she's feeling that whatever she does is under scrutiny. She needs to come to a rational and safe decision without the rest of the world weighing in with their two-pennorth.

And 'she's a role model'? Is she? Why?

IrisScentedCandle Sun 23-Jun-13 21:54:08

It's better for her that it's out worraliberty. Would it be better that nothing happened to challenge her thinking? let another year slide by.

On other threads about this (whether photos better publicised or kept private) plenty of posters were saying that once people knew that was the moment that their thinking shifted. That they were reminded of how other people viewed it (most hmm other people anyway)

squeakytoy Sun 23-Jun-13 21:55:19

Because Iris, a photo like this proves nothing.

There is nothing going on with me, mainly because I dont have an agenda that would prevent me from thinking that there are often completely different realities to what may be a very misleading photograph.

I was out on my own last night with a friend. I stood at the door having a cigarette with a male friend at one point. I sat at the bar with a group of friends, but at one point the male friend leant over to whisper something to me, and as myself and female friend were leaving, the male friend gave me a hug and a kiss on the cheek.

A series of carefully selected photographs taken during the evening could easily have implied that I was out alone with this man, and even sat cuddled up to him having an affair.

The reality was far from that. But if I was a celebrity, there are many publications that would pay a photographer good money to start a story using a random selection of those photos.

Do you see what I mean?

Pagwatch Sun 23-Jun-13 21:55:19

Good grief

There are some seriously sad people who clearly get their jollies over other peoples private lives.

RetroRita Sun 23-Jun-13 21:56:05

There is nothing that some people won't take joy in is there?

Anything for a bit of gossip - screw the feelings of the people involved if it can be vaguely proved its in the public interest.

Some people have no hearts.

Leave the woman alone fgs. Its herlife. Not yours.

Jinsei Sun 23-Jun-13 21:56:28

Personally, I feel that Nigella has a right to feel however the hell she feels. And that none of us can say what that is right now, and so we should butt right out.

Follyfoot Sun 23-Jun-13 21:56:40

*we'd love to see an immediate and positive decision, showing us that she just won't stand for it!"

Would we? She doesnt have to show me anything, its a real person's life we are talking about, not a TV show.

Oh and what Worra said about guillotine knitters.

Pagwatch Sun 23-Jun-13 21:58:00

The photos came out. People reacted.
So far, so understandable.

The guillotine knitters just want to squeeze every moment of intrigue and peculiar ion and judgement out of the situation, treating a real persons life as if it were a bad Eastenders storyline.

Worra is spot on.

IrisScentedCandle Sun 23-Jun-13 21:58:50

Squeaky, you are one seriously strange person if you think that those photos prove nothing.

over and out now.

CoalDustWoman Sun 23-Jun-13 21:59:04

Leave her alone. You sound oddly expectant that she she should react in a certain way. Or just odd.

Have you taken a moment to put yourself in her shoes? To think about how much of a head fuck this must be for her? To realise that your expectations are irrelevant? Can you even begin to imagine what her life is like at the moment?

squeakytoy Sun 23-Jun-13 21:59:23

I am not the strange one here Iris...

RetroRita Sun 23-Jun-13 21:59:52

No Squeaky, you are most definitely not

Pagwatch Sun 23-Jun-13 21:59:57

Peculiar ion is speculation.
I am too irritated to proof read.

WorraLiberty Sun 23-Jun-13 22:00:48

It's better for her that it's out worraliberty. Would it be better that nothing happened to challenge her thinking? let another year slide by.

In your opinion Iris but clearly not Nigella's?

CoalDustWoman Sun 23-Jun-13 22:02:12

Hang on. He has accepted a caution. I think that it is safe to say that there was something going on that wasn't just made up from a few random photos.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sun 23-Jun-13 22:02:45

Squeaky, you are one seriously strange person if you think that those photos prove nothing.
over and out now.

Who are you to call anybody strange, Iris? I think you're pretty rude actually suggesting that Squeaky is Charles Saatchi's sister because she doesn't agree with you. I don't either. Lots of people don't.

Worra was spot on (as usual) about 'guilllotine knitters'. Nobody - celeb or not - has to behave in any way that YOU feel is appropriate. I truly hope that if you ever find yourself in situations where certain behaviours are 'expected' that you remember the standards you expect of others and hold yourself up to those, regardless of your individual need for privacy to deal with personal matters. hmm

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sun 23-Jun-13 22:04:36

Coal... Perhaps he accepted the caution so that the pressure was taken off his wife? I don't know how it works but the only people who KNOW are his wife and himself.

What is there to be served by speculating anything more?

OMG Nigella is not behaving in the manner you think she should, she hasn't the right to feel the way she does and your calling Saatchi controlling.

RetroRita Sun 23-Jun-13 22:06:30

Coal - what if we all assume that its 'safe to say' nothing because we are not actually involved with any of it and agree it would be better to leave her alone.

WorraLiberty Sun 23-Jun-13 22:08:44

I tell you what Iris, if it was possible to get the names and addresses of all the posters on the relationship board, who suffer from domestic violence...then hang about taking photos of their abuse/possible abuse...

Would you do it? And then would you plaster those pics all over their Facebook pages...so all their family, friends and work colleagues could see it?

By your own reckoning, 'It's better that it's out'.

What you've spectacularly failed to consider, is that person's mental state and whether or not they're strong enough to deal with all the publicity happening overnight.

If you'd happily do the above and think it would do the abused person some good, then I'm totally speechless.

If you wouldn't, then why is it OK for Nigella to have it sprung upon her?

CoalDustWoman Sun 23-Jun-13 22:10:27

I'm not speculating. He really did accept the caution. He said he assaulted her and I take that at face value. Anything else would be speculation.

FreudiansSlipper Sun 23-Jun-13 22:14:01

Nigella has the right to own her feelings

What others think will not change anything. Although if these pictures had never come out she would probably still be with him, this may force her to look at her relationship I just hope she can make changes in how she feels about herself it takes time and she should be left alone to do this.

And odd choice of Billie Holidays song she was a woman who went from childhood abuse/abandonment to abusive relationships sadly if she had others around her that really did care abuout her business she probably would have been a happier woman

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sun 23-Jun-13 22:15:28

yy Worra, everything you said in your last post. Some people are just hellish. Thank goodness there's some kind of balance to their never-ending badgering and criticising of those with differing and less tabloid-obsessed views.

BasilBabyEater Sun 23-Jun-13 22:17:53

Those of you who say it's a private matter, you do realise you are engaging in abuse apology, don't you? It is not a private matter. Domestic violence is a crime and when you commit a crime, it is the business of the state - the police, the courts, possibly the social services depending on how rich you are (is it too cynical of me to think that SS might have paid a visit by now if they'd had less money and status?).

To say it's a private matter, is the updated version of urging us to ignore what goes on behind closed doors. To say that we don't know what happened, is to ignore the fact that actually, guess what, we do know what happened - Charles Saatchi committed a criminal offence to which he admitted guilt. That is what accepting a caution means: it means you admit you are guilty.

I cannot understand how so many people insist that we can't possibly know what happened, when the perpetrator of this assault himself has, by accepting a caution, told us exactly what happened. Rich men do not accept a criminal record unless they really feel they have no choice. This is a man with access to the best lawyers in the world; does anyone really think he would have admitted guilt if he'd thought that any jury in the country would have agreed with him that an assault on his wife was just a playful tiff?

But OP I think you are being unreasonable: she is entitled to her feelings.

MalcolmTuckersMum Sun 23-Jun-13 22:19:10

Hear bloody hear Worra to everything but especially your last post. Has Iris gone somewhat quiet in the face of pretty much every single person on the planet thinking she's talking shite?

WorraLiberty Sun 23-Jun-13 22:19:32

Lying I think some people buy into the 'celebrity' status thing and forget that behind the job they've chosen to do, is a real person.

A real person who eats, sleeps and shits the same as everyone else.

I think in Nigella's case, it's possible that all the publicity and pressure she now feels, may be making her feel a hell of a lot worse.

I bet she just wishes she could disappear from planet earth for a couple of weeks, to sort her head out.

WorraLiberty Sun 23-Jun-13 22:20:52

I have no idea MTM grin

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sun 23-Jun-13 22:20:54

Freudian... It might or it might not. She may be of the view that she will not do what many people are 'demanding' that she do. I would probably take that stance myself. She's been thrust into this and is now being judged by media. That's pretty disgusting. She's a human being who has the right to determine her own path, with dignity, and without interference and speculation from a salivating public.

Why can't people back off and leave her to come to terms with her own personal turmoil and subsequent decision(s) without feeling judged purely by dint of being in the public eye. Terribly unfair and it says so much about the 'race to the bottom' culture we seem to be electing to adopt. When did standards in this country drop so far? Makes me really ashamed.

BasilBabyEater Sun 23-Jun-13 22:22:35

And here we all are discussing Nigella's thoughts, feelings, actions, and not the feelings of the violent bastard she's married to.

How about we focus on Strangler Saatchi's feelings? How about we examine his behaviour and views in forensic detail?

Let's leave Nigella alone and put the spotlight where it should be - on the perpetrator of Domestic Abuse, not the victim. She is not accountable for her actions, feelings or behaviour - she is not the perpetrator. He is.

Good night.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sun 23-Jun-13 22:23:13

Basil... I disagree with EVERY word you have written. Kindly do not call people 'apologists' because they don't have an agenda but may have a view that differs from yours. It's insulting.

TSSDNCOP Sun 23-Jun-13 22:25:09

On R2 this morning, Richard Madely and a woman were discussing the papers.

Apparently, that Milliband man is in a paper saying that he would have intervened in a Lawson/Saatchi style situation.

Madely and woman, discussed how it wasn't a subject that Milliband needed to wade in on.

Then discussed what they would have done.

If Nigella's frustrated, I can kind of see why.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sun 23-Jun-13 22:25:12

MTM... Switched to lurking, I guess. That's the standard response. Squeaky was quite rounded on, most unfairly.

Justfornowitwilldo Sun 23-Jun-13 22:25:20

It's not a private matter. It's a crime.

I totally understand that she feels it is embarrassing and frustrating. A lot of people put up with all sorts of stuff in relationships that you'd never guess. They don't want other people to know about it. We all have pride.

CambridgeBlue Sun 23-Jun-13 22:26:29

I think all the press attention and online speculation are making what appears to be a bad situation even worse. She needs to make her own decisions in her own time, she doesn't owe the general public anything just because they've bought her books or watched her on TV - she hasn't set herself up as a role model and I doubt she relishes the idea of being a poster girl for DV victims.

Quite a few things depress me about modern life and this sort of bandwagon jumping (by everyone from Joe Bloggs to politicians) is high up the list. It's nobody's business but the people involved so leave the poor woman alone for God sake instead of gossiping, speculating, surmising and judging someone else's life (by which I don't specifically mean you OP, just people in general).

WorraLiberty Sun 23-Jun-13 22:26:34

Basil there's a huge difference between domestic violence being a crime and the business of the Police, courts, SS etc

And having your personal life and relationship roller coastered into the media.

If your personal life was the subject of millions of internet threads and Tweets right now, I'm quite sure you'd want some privacy too...regardless of whether a crime has been committed.

If understanding that someone wants some privacy at such a traumatic time in their life makes me an 'apologist'...then so be it.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sun 23-Jun-13 22:26:59

Worra... Are you saying Nigella, shits, really? shock Perhaps it's little strawberry bonbon ones? grin

squeakytoy Sun 23-Jun-13 22:27:02

"And here we all are discussing Nigella's thoughts, feelings, actions, and not the feelings of the violent bastard she's married to"

Not true. Many of us are saying that it is something that should not be fodder for cyber gossip and wild speculation.

While a few, including yourself, are sharpening your pitchforks and making assumptions based on photographs.

Justfornowitwilldo Sun 23-Jun-13 22:29:11

'making assumptions based on photographs'

Do you understand what accepting a caution means?

WorraLiberty Sun 23-Jun-13 22:29:59

It's not a private matter. It's a crime

So if god forbid your DC was raped, you'd be quite happy for every single detail to be published in the media, along with photos?

You'd be happy to read the 1000s of tweets and internet posts from complete strangers, saying what they do and don't think...simply because it's a crime?

Bully for you but I wonder if the victim would be as happy about it?

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sun 23-Jun-13 22:30:58

Just... I don't, no. Is it akin to when somebody pleads 'guilty', their accuser doesn't have to give evidence? Is it mandatory that you accept a caution OR something else happens?

WorraLiberty Sun 23-Jun-13 22:31:16

Lying I do believe her shit comes in little parcels with a sprig of parsley on top grin

RazzleDazzleEm Sun 23-Jun-13 22:31:36

What I find utterly bizarre is that they know - he knows that pics have been taken of them millions of times at that restaurant and they sit outside.

I am amazed he thought he could do this - 27 mins in that article, or thereabouts and no one would see it.

Even if no pap was there, the people who over heard and saw, the other diners.

As for her - I think there is a huge difference in your DH beating and attacking you in public than say Katie Price moaning because a pap snapped her twazzled Vag, before she was able to release the pics herself.

There is little understanding of this sort of thing as there is in many many things, one hasn't personally gone through.

squeakytoy Sun 23-Jun-13 22:34:23

I think, considering the media circus that is following what was a private matter, accepting a caution was damage limitation for all concerned.

They want the matter ended as far as the media is concerned.

That is their business.

Justfornowitwilldo Sun 23-Jun-13 22:35:26

It's horrible for her that it's being discussed like a soap storyline. The fault for that lies in the hands of her husband. They have a high profile and he assaulted her in public.

If it were my DC, I'd be glad that there was unequivocal evidence of the man being a violent. Women generally don't leave after the first incident. Or the second. It must be excruciating to have it all over the papers but she can't ignore it or minimise it.

EleanorFarjeon Sun 23-Jun-13 22:36:52

I wish the press would leave Nigella alone.

Perhaps she has no desire to be the poster girl for domestic violence just because she is well known.

Justfornowitwilldo Sun 23-Jun-13 22:37:58

Again, a public assault is not 'a private matter.'

FYI

For a caution to be given:

there must be evidence of guilt sufficient to give a realistic prospect of conviction;
the offender must admit the offence;
the offender must understand the significance of a caution and give informed consent to being cautioned.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sun 23-Jun-13 22:47:19

*It's horrible for her that it's being discussed like a soap storyline.* The fault for that lies in the hands of her husband. They have a high profile and he assaulted her in public.

No. The fault for that lies squarely with our so called 'journalists' and the low, low standards of the 'meeja'-devouring public. Whatever he did or she did does not detract from the fact that they are not free from public scrutiny to deal with their problems - and they should be.

We've become voyeurs, gobbling up any and all titbits of 'news' with great gusto and absolutely no discernment. How proud as a nation we must be... hmm

I will exert what little influence I have to telling people to 'keep their cherry out'. If they wouldn't like the same treatment levied to them, they should not accept it for others.

somersethouse Sun 23-Jun-13 22:48:34

OP

None, NONE of your business.

Pathetic. YABU.
HTH.

I am allowed to answer your question 'AIBU' I asume? Just to stop reported messages because I have stated an opinión to another idiot.

Mind your own business and go and make yourself another cup of tea and worry about how many bloody pillows you have on you bed and how often you change your sheets and how many biscuits you have eaten and how fat you are.

Honestly. Catch a Grip.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sun 23-Jun-13 22:48:54

Just... Thanks for the info. Does it mean that it ends with a caution then? If so, the 'public interest' is at an end, surely?

SigmundFraude Sun 23-Jun-13 22:50:06

I think a lot of those who have jumped to vilify Nigella's relationship, have done so not for her, they couldn't care less about her, but to further their own agenda and nothing more.

It's a fucking disgrace, frankly. And she's quite correct when she feels her hand is being forced, because it is.

cerealqueen Sun 23-Jun-13 22:53:04

She can feel how she likes, it is her life.

Doesn't her husband look like her father though????

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sun 23-Jun-13 22:55:14

Absolutely, Sigmund, she is being forced and it's a disgrace.

Alisvolatpropiis Sun 23-Jun-13 22:55:55

justfornow

It being a crime doesn't mean she doesn't have a right to privacy.

If something being a crime meant it was no longer private rape victims identities wouldn't be kept private would they.

mathanxiety Sun 23-Jun-13 22:56:12

'I am not some sort of battered wife.'

Well I for one have lost all respect for her for that.

She can choose what she wants. It's her life and good luck to her, but a tone of disparagement for other women who suffer at the hands of their partners is not one bit nice.

pictish Sun 23-Jun-13 22:56:19

He is one ugly bugger though.

AllYoursBabooshka Sun 23-Jun-13 22:57:18

Yes, it's absolutely right that a public assault should not be a private matter but what Nigella Lawson should feel, think, do or say is.

These constant discussion about what people would have done had they been there, what she was feeling at the time and what she should do next are unpleasant. As are the speculations about her home life.

People go too far in their so called "concern" and forget that there is a person behind all of this and not just an issue that needs discussed.

Justfornowitwilldo Sun 23-Jun-13 22:59:47

'News' media follow her anyway. She is one of the people that women's magazines and tabloids have targeted for years, using long lens shots to take pictures of her in swimwear and then dissecting her figure. When she didn't play ball (and protected her skin from burning) on an Aussie beach by wearing a loose 'burkini' suit they made a huge deal over that. And there were threads on here. I hate the whole thing. It's not fair to her. I loathe that crap. They won't stop.

AllYoursBabooshka Sun 23-Jun-13 23:00:10

For goodness sake mathanxiety, there is absolutely no proof that she said such a thing.

This is exactly why it needs to be left alone, too much talk and things get twisted.

Justfornowitwilldo Sun 23-Jun-13 23:05:16

Research into 'date' rape has shown that a large percentage of women don't identify what happened to them as rape though it fits the legal definition. People don't want to be seen as victims by other people but, more than that, they don't want to see themselves as victims. Who would?

saintmerryweather Sun 23-Jun-13 23:07:57

i actually really dont understand why people care so much about this that there has to be 3million mumsnet threads about it.

it really isnt anything to do with random people what she does now

mathanxiety Sun 23-Jun-13 23:09:44

It's also not helpful for her to suggest even obliquely that domestic violence is a topic that belongs behind closed doors. I realise this is a quote from a 'friend' (who seems to be very free with the reports on Nigella despite her desire for privacy) but 'she feels she is never going to be able to live this down and move on' is to state that there is equal shame here, when he is the one who should be feeling it all.

I think that sort of statement is linked to notions of what exactly is 'a battered wife' Is she saying 'this doesn't happen to people like me?'

'She would not have left if the incident had stayed private.’
I hope she gets a shedload of counselling and has her eyes opened.

Anger management my foot. There were 27 minutes of photographs.

I feel sorry for her and my ire is directed at the DM as a vehicle for trotting out DV myths. Her father is frothing at the mouth over the embarrassment of it all? He needs to be educated too.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sun 23-Jun-13 23:10:06

The public has the ability to control how the media reports. We can do that by not buying 'gutter press' papers and journals. It's the only way. The public seems to be fully behind intrusive and exploitative journalism. Therefore, that bit is down to the public.

I used to read magazines and newspapers but haven't for many years now. If I want to know something I will find out from news reports and broadsheets - and question every irrelevance and disregard any and all 'gossipy snippet'. I have no respect for the pseudo-journalists in this country, none whatsoever.

ManifestoMT Sun 23-Jun-13 23:10:33

FreudiansSlipper
Re billy Holliday That's why I posted it. It's weirdly familiar the whole abusive background nigella's mother was abusive to both her children. How it'd been dealt with in the media, how people are critical of nigella rather than saatchi
Billy was singing in the 1930's how little peoples attitudes have changed. A man thinks he can grab someone's throat in the middle of a restaurant and get away with no one saying anything. I actually think if he did that in the 1930's some one would have called him on it as women were delicate flowers in need of protection. Now we are so afraid of confronting people we look away and say nothing.

I hope nigella gets through it all and finds some sort of peace and safety.
I hope saatchi is hating all this exposure.

I hope if and when she find the courage there are the same amount of people to support her as are berating her now.

There but for the grace of god go I.
Add another platitude "to understand what's going on we should walk a mile in her shoes"

Thank goodness I don't have to and I am safe

EmmaBemma Sun 23-Jun-13 23:11:45

what the fuck? we have no idea whether she actually said those things or anything like them. Who seriously takes a Daily Wail article at face value, especially one that heavily quotes "friends". Whenever a source is a "friend", there is no source, just a hack with a deadline. I can't believe people actually believe this shit and then sit about getting all huffy about it.

Leave Nigella alone. Her private life is none of your business.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sun 23-Jun-13 23:13:42

I might equally have said, "I'm not some sort of battered wife...". I would say it out of shock, bewilderment, hurt or as some sort of response - any sort of response - to get a scummy journalist out of my face.

Nigella has no responsibility to ANYBODY but herself.

Anybody who reads the tabloid press (DM and the ilk) deserves to be ignored.

WorraLiberty Sun 23-Jun-13 23:14:02

No. The fault for that lies squarely with our so called 'journalists' and the low, low standards of the 'meeja'-devouring public. Whatever he did or she did does not detract from the fact that they are not free from public scrutiny to deal with their problems - and they should be.

This ^^ in a nutshell from Lying

Some of the posts I've read on the internet and in newspapers, give me the impression that some people are rubbing their hands with glee.

Armchair psychologists and 'Sleb hunters'...all thinking they know this woman and know what's best for her.

They know no more about her real life than they'll know about my cousin's goldfish.

RazzleDazzleEm Sun 23-Jun-13 23:15:33

Its interesting for lots of reasons, rightly or wrongly.

Domestic violence is usually in the home behind closed doors, this has been outed.

One poster on here has said she felt her humiliation has forced her hand. That poster has been forgotten on here.

Lots of women will see those Pics and feel they are not alone, as well as the sad thruth that anyone is vulnerable too it. Lots of women in the situation will also see the public's out cry and hopefully will think more about their own situations.

When you are abused like that routinely it does become routine and the normal expected pattern of ones life.

To suddenly have this spot light on the abuse - and an out cry - wow its NOT acceptable, isnt a bad thing.

I am glad the pics were caught, I am very sorry for her and her situ and her DC.

If she isnt mentally stable enough to take this - as a public figure, meaning she has had some experience of vast media exposure, I do not see how she can be stable enough to cope with a man, trying to strangle her.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sun 23-Jun-13 23:21:52

How ridiculous, Razzle... How do you rationalise being stable enough to cope with this sustained media intrusion into her personal life as any indication of strength to cope with being strangled? I never say "WTAF" but I'm saying it now... confused

People may or may not think about their own circumstances but, as you can see from this thread - and many others - it's exactly as Worra says, slobbering public 'enjoying' the perceived 'downfall' or 'mis-step'.

Do you know what else sickens me? It's women who are doing the hand-rubbing. Vile, grim and all the other over-used MN terms - in spades.

SigmundFraude Sun 23-Jun-13 23:27:38

'She would not have left if the incident had stayed private.’
I hope she gets a shedload of counselling and has her eyes opened.'

I'm sure she will get a shedload of counselling. Having your relationship ripped apart by random strangers and the media, having every word and facial expression commented on. The 'concern' being shown towards her will turn to scathing fury if she doesn't leave him, you watch. She will be a victim all over again, hounded for not doing exactly what was expected of her by people who have never spent 5 minutes in her presence.

She might leave him I suppose, after all, doesn't she have a public face to maintain, or so people are telling her. Ditch Saatchi or lose your livelihood, the public decree it so.

As you say, I expect her eyes have been well and truly opened.

TheCraicDealer Sun 23-Jun-13 23:28:01

The fact that he did something wrong isn't debatable, not really. He was pictured doing it, the police have cautioned him and he has accepted that. However, to be made to feel that she should react to this as people "expect" her to rather than what she wants to do is hardly a position many of us would wish to be in.

It might be that she still loves the ball bag and she wants to make it work, maybe get him into therapy or counselling to try and solve his problem. But that option will be vilified and picked apart, any news items on their marriage will allude to this for years; "Saatchi, who famously accepted a caution for strangling his wife outside London eatery Blah blah, has clearly been forgiven by Nigella...". Boke. She will not be able to make a truly free choice about her next move. Like an addict she needs to leave when she knows the game's up, a forced intervention (whether physical or under the influence of the media) will more than likely be unsuccessful.

While I don't like the fact that she's not presently engaging an expensive divorce lawyer or putting his art collection on eBay, she has to be allowed to make a choice that's right for her. She's allowed to feel aggrieved that that's not happening. So YABU.

RazzleDazzleEm Sun 23-Jun-13 23:28:19

I totally disagree.

There was public out cry over a woman seemingly dumping a cat in a bin.

No one questioned that.

This was a woman being throttled.

Physically attacked.

I don't think people are slobbering and enjoying it.

I think most people are shocked, appalled and glad its in the open and they hope - as do I that something happens for the better.

If simply talking about it - and discussing it is classified as slobbering and hand rubbing then I suggest hypocrisy of the highest order from some posters...and MN has that in spades too.

RazzleDazzleEm Sun 23-Jun-13 23:33:02

The most pressure she will get is from her family. After all her Father especially is also in the public eye.

Most people in the media know not to read the papers about themselves and know its rubbish.

How she reacts to the media is again her business.

If her DH hadnt done this - none of this would have existed.

goodasgold Sun 23-Jun-13 23:36:06

I'm not hand rubbing over Nigella.

I think that the fact her notouriously private husband has issued a statement speaks volumes. I was expecting complete silence from him at least regarding this, being a nothing story. The fact that he has made a statement bothers me more than than the pap shots.

RazzleDazzleEm Sun 23-Jun-13 23:46:43

Good, I doubt anyone is hand rubbing over this. Its the usual way to close down talk over a wider sensitive subject.

I feel dreadfully sorry for N but more sorry that her DH felt it was OK to put his hands round her neck and try to strangle her.

WorraLiberty Mon 24-Jun-13 00:13:56

If she isnt mentally stable enough to take this - as a public figure, meaning she has had some experience of vast media exposure, I do not see how she can be stable enough to cope with a man, trying to strangle her.

Yes well you 'not being able to see it', isn't going to bring much comfort to a woman who has had her personal and private life, suddenly thrust into the media, is it?

She's a public figure because she cooks food...and that's that.

mathanxiety Mon 24-Jun-13 00:15:56

If she wants to be mad at anyone she should be mad at him for throttling her in public, if she is in fact mad about having all of this hashed out in the papers.

But would it have been preferable for this to happen in a private spot? Is public humiliation worse than private? If she ever decided to divorce him -- if he went too far in private perhaps -- would she feel the same reticence about pursuing divorce? She is in the public eye and there would be speculation -- would she fear being tainted?. If she felt trapped by her celebrity in a horrible marriage because the 'shame' of being known as a victim of DV was too much for her then that is a problem for society.

Worra -- '...slobbering public 'enjoying' the perceived 'downfall' or 'mis-step'.
If this is how the incident is viewed then society needs to wake up because there are thousands of women who fall victim each year to a partner. Two women are murdered every week by a partner. Is this a misstep on the part of a woman? Is it a 'downfall' for a woman to be known as a victim of DV? If so then the UK might as well bring back stoning and start calling itself Saudi Arabia West.

Yes, she actually is some sort of battered wife. A wealthy one. One who is famous. There is no shame on her for that. Her husband is a wife batterer. You could ask him in years to come 'Are you still beating your wife?'

WorraLiberty Mon 24-Jun-13 00:37:25

Worra -- '...slobbering public 'enjoying' the perceived 'downfall' or 'mis-step'.

I didn't say that...you've mixed me up with someone else.

But I agree with whoever said it, 100%.

Read some of the posts on this thread and you'll see that so many people think they know what's good for this complete and utter stranger.

They know fuck all. They don't know how this woman is feeling or whether or not she can cope with 1000s of strangers knowing her private business right now.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Mon 24-Jun-13 00:37:26

Mathanxiety... I wrote that, not Worra. Society needs to wake up generally and stop living vicariously through 'slebs', getting their daily fixes of information through rubbish sources. There is quite a bit of hand-rubbing that I can see; it doesn't surprise me at all. Always nice to focus on the misfortunes of another to distract from ones own problems. Schadenfreude strikes again!

Of course violence towards a person isn't perceived as a 'downfall' or a 'mis-step' - by thinking people anyway. If you are following the story you will know that there are people clamouring for ever more details, taking this incident and attempting to direct resolution as to what they perceive Nigella should do. Is it their business to do that? No. Does it stop them? Not in the slightest.

There seems to be a real antipathy on this thread towards people who go against the 'tide', posters who actually don't feel that this 'story' is for public delectation. Any attempt to post a differing view is met with the same old accusation of attempting to 'close down a discussion'. As if that ever worked... A difference of opinion is just that, no more no less.

mathanxiety Mon 24-Jun-13 01:18:26

Pardon me, Worra. But I do disagree with you. Her husband should have worried more about how his wife would cope when he decided to do what he did.

I agree wrt the disgusting hunger for celebrity news, and the way incidents are turned into spectacles often overlooks the fact that there are real people and real sorrow and sometimes even tragedy going on. The sordid details of the Philpott case seemed to overshadow the fact that so many children lost their lives.

In this case the way the story itself has been presented is an issue all unto itself imo. Here is the DM's parting shot:

'But it is not only the personal humiliation that is said to be worrying Nigella.
Her new success in America, where she found fame with the television reality show The Taste last January, could now be vulnerable.'

It reads to me like a warning to women to think twice before telling people about violence in their relationship for fear of being tainted by the 'scandal' of DV. The subtext is that you may have more to gain by putting up with being assaulted in private by your partner than splitting and enduring either speculation about the reasons, or the fallout from divulging the reasons. Keeping silent about DV is not the way to stop DV, which is at epidemic proportions.
If she has bought into all of this then that is a huge pity.

Unfortunately there are fewer thinking people around than there should be or the DM would go out of business.

However, some of the comments happen because people care, and know perhaps from sad personal experience that someone like her husband manages his anger very well in order to get what he wants.

Mimishimi Mon 24-Jun-13 01:41:11

I'd be more likely to watch any new show of hers than I would have previously. I'm sure Americans don't blame her for her husband's inability to control himself whilst emphasising a point during a playful tiff which left her in tears. hmm I know I don't. She's deluded if she doesn't think it's abuse though. Being a battered wife is not the sole province of the poor .. He doesn't have to be a drunkard who leaves her with a black eye or broken limbs. Physically threatening her without leaving a mark is just as abusive.

Wealthy men are often abusers or make excuses for it. Just yesterday there was an article in our newspaper (Sydney Morning Herald) where the prominent Australian rabbi of the very wealthy Chabad movement in NYC said that goyim (non-Jewish) boys are often sexualised from the age of five and that poor people have nothing else to think about other than sex, which they carry out with each other and with dogs (!!!!), so some pedophile abuse has to be understood in that context!!! This is not the rabbi who is under an ongoing investigation from Australian police for molesting boys from his own community but it is alleged that he was protected from the likes of the one who made those disgusting comments.

Saatchi doesn't strike me as one bit sorry.

mathanxiety Mon 24-Jun-13 01:45:46

I would too Mimishimi, and I agree that Americans are not likely to be put off any show of hers in any way by this. In fact I think the opposite, and not out of prurience. That is why those DM words leapt from the screen at me.

Lazyjaney Mon 24-Jun-13 07:20:06

"i actually really dont understand why people care so much about this that there has to be 3million mumsnet about it"

And here is one on MN complaining about other people talking about it on other social forums. Oh the irony grin

Flipside of fame. It giveth, and it taketh away.

Jayne3474 Mon 24-Jun-13 09:36:34

She can feel frustrated if she likes.

The difference between her and another famous person e.g. Professor Stephen Hawking or even Beyonce is that she has specifically made a fortune out of being a 'Domestic Goddess'.

Not just a good cook like Delia or a proper chef like Gordon Ramsey, but, no, a domestic goddess no less.

So somebody who manipulates the public with such patronising sounding tomes like 'How to Eat' oh do fuck off is surprised when the public react to the news that her life is not perfect.

No woman should be subjected to domestic abuse ever, but by goodness, HAD the myth of domestic goddess fallen away for some other reason eg she was spotted stuffing her face with McDonalds every night or eating a Greggs pastie and feeding her precious kids fruit shoots, well it would be nice to see that smug grin taken away.

A multi-millionairess. Never has to earn a penny, could spend her time volunteering for charities OR something more useful.

But, no, the most important thing is baking blardy cupcakes. hmm

Like I said, HAD the public's blinkers been removed as regards her perfect life because we found out she used Tesco value ham and didn't really have an orgasm over a set of fairy lights, then I would have a major case of schadenfraude.

FreudiansSlipper Mon 24-Jun-13 10:01:25

Did Nigella give tips on how to be a goof wife, how to make you sex life better, how to fold towels no it was based around cooking

The goddess is marketing and I am sure it is more of a reference to her beauty and sex appeal than her domesticated life style

she is still a great cook shame on those who feel cheated what have they lost nothing

FreudiansSlipper Mon 24-Jun-13 10:04:46

Good wife ...

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Mon 24-Jun-13 10:10:34

Jayne... Urgh. You sound so jealous and really quite unpleasant.

I did agree with this bit of your post though: No woman should be subjected to domestic abuse ever.

Jayne3474 Mon 24-Jun-13 10:12:38

It wasn't just cooking at all, if it was just about cooking, there would be a plain studio. It was her lifestyle that was being sold.

She's not a straightforward cook like Delia. Or a proper-doing-it-as-a-profession chef like Ramsey.

Putting the abuse aside for one moment, Nigella Lawson -a highly intelligent woman- figured out that she could sell herself as this 'Domestic Goddess'.

Now 'domestic' refers to all home life matters-not just cooking.

And here she is, marketing herself as the perfect i.e. goddess person at all things homely and comforting.

Now people realise that it's not like that at all and are surprised and she is frustrated by these little people thinking that they know her.

Seriously, what did she expect?

It's tragic that the lie should be exposed by such a terrible thing like domestic abuse, though.

The fact that she had Tesco value ham in her perfectly clean Smeg fridge would be a million times better.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Mon 24-Jun-13 10:24:25

Vile and full of bile. hmm

Poor woman; subjected to violence and the judgement of morons all around her.

Moominsarehippos Mon 24-Jun-13 10:27:10

I wonder if the said these quotes 'to a friend' anyway.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Mon 24-Jun-13 10:33:23

SHe is of course entitled to feel and do as she thinks best, but I wish she felt and did differently! 'some sort of battered wife' is troublesome, to me, because of the suggestions of a 'type'.

Jayne3474 Mon 24-Jun-13 11:03:24

'Judgement of morons all around her'

Domestic abuse is terrible and can never be condoned.

I think that goes without saying, really, however the point of this is that she is complaining about the opinions of other people as regards her personal life when by her actions i.e. selling herself as some sort of 'friend' and a domestic goddess who courted the public to make her rich (er) she was quite happy to have their attention then.

That is, the 'judgement of morons' made her rich (er) and famous.

Perhaps it is the fact that she was born into riches that makes her so condemning of others; perhaps celebrities who were born into less salubrious circumstances realise that they have to take public opinion no matter how negative as price for fame and fortune.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Mon 24-Jun-13 11:07:13

MNHQ... Please, for the love of apricots, could there be a 'hide poster' function soon? <fully expects to be hidden emoticon>

Purple2012 Mon 24-Jun-13 11:07:58

Assuming this incident wasn't a one off -

Couple meet and fall in love
The man is charming kind and loving
The man starts picking fault in little things
The man tells woman she is useless etc
Woman starts to doubt herself
The man gets worse and some physical violence happens
The woman tries to be 'better' so it doesnt happen again - after all its her fault because he told her that.
It doesn't stop but all the woman wants is the man she fell in love with back.

She will make excuses for him. She has been conditioned for years to think it's her fault.

Thats why it's not that simple.

Jayne3474 Mon 24-Jun-13 11:11:04

Spot on, Purple2012

Mimishimi Mon 24-Jun-13 11:12:25

Jayne, you sound almost triumphant in the revelation of her marital problems. It's quite unbecoming ... to you, not her. Anyone with half an ounce of sense would have realised there is a real person behind the 'domestic goddess' marketing. I wouldn't rejoice with spite even if she were found to eat Macca's or feed her kids fruit shoots. Never has to earn a penny. Really? I daresay she's earned a fair few more than you.

Mimishimi Mon 24-Jun-13 11:16:51

Actually just scrap the 'almost'.

Jayne3474 Mon 24-Jun-13 11:18:55

Mimishimi,

I'm not triumphant about her marital problems at all. Having witnessed domestic abuse, I recognise the look of fear in her eyes, however, it is always annoying when a celebrity who has courted public opinion for years complains about press/public intrusion.

As for ounce of good sense well I'm not really sure about that and, while I pass no judgement, it is clear that some people don't realise the real person behind the domestic goddess. I mean if you buy a book called How to Eat I doubt that you're loaded with a sense of realism and pragmatism.

And, no, I doubt that the daughter of a millionaire politician and a heiress has REALLY been on the breadline.

Earned a fair few more than me? Er, sorry, but I don't see what your point is here: she got paid 100k per show for a chat show she did a few years ago.

I dare say that she's earned a fair few more than 99.9% of mn-ers (!)

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Mon 24-Jun-13 11:22:17

Purple's post was 'spot on'; your gloating ones, Jayne, disgust and sicken me.

Jayne3474 Mon 24-Jun-13 11:39:17

Yeah because pointing out that a celebrity who earns millions from gullible people buying her domestic goddess myth has no real right to demand that those very same people aren't entitled to an opinion (and that's all it is: OPINION, not an order, or demand) on her personal life is 'gloating' hmm.

For some reason, such people think they know her, and she's done all she can to court that for financial gain. Fair enough.

She must know that she is exploting people with books called 'How to Eat', how could she not?

But to complain about them having an opinion -and what is their opinion? That she get out of an abusive relationship and that they wish her well-smacks to me of somebody who is very spoilt.

Mimishimi Mon 24-Jun-13 11:44:58

Why should she have ever been on the breadline? How has not having been so made her less deserving of our sympathy and indignation? She has still earned more than her keep on her own terms doing something she loves (and which would certainly not have been something her family would have aspired for her to do when she was growing up although I'm sure they're proud of how well she's done). I do agree that if you commit yourself to a public life, it would be naive to assume you can control the media attention as you please.

Pagwatch Mon 24-Jun-13 11:52:16

Urgh

Dress it up anyway you like, the tone of 'she asked for it' in your posts is really quite revolting Jayne

Being a 'celebrity' has fuck all to do with every sanctemonious busybody feeling that they can opine about every aspect of our private life.

Pagwatch Mon 24-Jun-13 11:54:52

grin arf at 'our' private life.
Obviously 'your' private life. I could not be less of a celeb.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Mon 24-Jun-13 11:57:18

<eyes Pagwatch suspiciously...>

Are you a celeb in disguise? Caroline Quentin? <said ever hopefully> grin

Hullygully Mon 24-Jun-13 12:00:10

I think it's very interesting.

She would have put up with him and carried on being placating, indeed wants to, but feels she can't because she has been seen to be humiliated in public.

So she knows it's humiliating, abusive and unacceptable, but only if seen.

In private, she can rationalise it as he is "stressed" "difficult" etc and not have to see it for what it really is.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Mon 24-Jun-13 12:08:23

She's free to do that if she chooses to, Hullygully, just like every other woman is free to choose whether to accept this behaviour or not. I understand that conditioning has a lot to do with that but I think gentle guidance by example or demonstration of the 'way out' is a far better method. "Pitchforks on Parade" would never do it for me.

As fellow women (I know that sounds odd), I think we should be showing a bit of solidarity and absolutely shunning the trial-by-tabloid advocates.

Jayne3474 Mon 24-Jun-13 12:08:34

Pagwatch

Asked for what, precisely?

Asked to be hit? No. Most definitely no.

Asked for people to have opinions (and that's all they are, opinions) on what she should do next?

Yes.

Celebrities of her sort always do; they sell a persona to the public (I mean the bit about her being a chef is nonsense really, yeah, she's a good cook and all but it's her persona she is selling).

So her fans think they've got a connection to her and feel they know her (logically, they don't but they feel they do) and then she feels they've no right to an opinion on her life.

This sort of celebrity-they'll take the perks, the riches, the privilege, but they won't tolerate the downside.

If this had been Nigella Lawson who quietly run a cookery school somewhere, who'd only be mentioned in relation to her father/brother, husband, who never sold a version of herself to earn money, who never had a cookery show, or sold a book or never pouted for publicity, then yeah, her view would have worth.

Pagwatch Mon 24-Jun-13 12:10:26

I am only famous for living in a shed in mils garden
<that's not actually true>

But why the fuck Caroline Quinten ?
Is that your ultimate celeb Lying?
grin

Hullygully Mon 24-Jun-13 12:12:26

She is lyingwitch of course.

It is just interesting to me, that's all.

But I think as much public condemnation of male on female violence as possible is to be desired. It will make everyone think, it may even change attitudes. I do feel sorry for Nigella, and I understand why nobody wants to be humiliated in public, but that is a separate isuue.

Fenton Mon 24-Jun-13 12:12:38

Bloody hell Jayne is it just celebrity women you hate or all women?

Pagwatch Mon 24-Jun-13 12:18:03

I said upthread the 'goodness - what on earth is that all about' respobses seems understandable.

It's the endless 'she should do this' 'if she dosent do x she has let women down' 'by saying that she has damaged this'

Ponder the circumstances by all means but the endless criticising whilst pretty much ignoring saatchi is making me wonder why we don't ever seem to be able to apply support without endless critical judgement.
The fact that she is smart and has a career apparently now means she can be beaten with another stick.

And it is gleeful. Dress it up as impartial pondering but lots of posters are having a high old time that a rich celebrity has a dreadful private life.

Anyone who has 'bought the lifestyle' and imagined any of that to be real probably are stupid enough to be enjoying her distress. You are effectively agreeing that it is the thick and apparently unpleasant who feel that they are entitled to blame her for how she is now acting.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Mon 24-Jun-13 12:18:59

I've been watching Jonathan Creek dvds this weekend, Pagwatch, that's what's triggered it. I think I was hoping you were CQ and then I could have relentlessly stalked you around the boards begging you to go back and do another series with Alan Davies who is sorely in need of your undoubted talents as his foil.blush

My ultimate celeb is Donald Sutherland... and I really didn't think you were he. Although you might be! shock

... and that's some shed you have too!

Hullygully Mon 24-Jun-13 12:19:22

yy pag. You have to separate the person from the persona.

pore ol Nigella. Vile ol saatchi

fromparistoberlin Mon 24-Jun-13 12:24:12

dont read DM online (which is bullshit) then write bitchy post OP

FAIL

RoooneyMara Mon 24-Jun-13 12:35:37

I haven't read all of this but I read the article from the link.

I can totally imagine how she might feel - I might be wrong of course.

The thing is, as Rolanda would say - 'he's a jerk, but he's my jerk'. (irrelevant link)

You're in a relationship, and yes the person is wonderful, but is also dangerous or unfeeling or cruel. You forge yourself a persona, a role, be it as a 'nurturer' or something else, in order to cope with the abuse or difficulties. But you still want to be there, with that person you're in love with, until (and this may never come) the day you mentally and emotionally detach from them.

This requires a tipping point. She may not have reached it. In the interim she needed to preserve her illusion of coping, of being fine as long as she was in control, in her home made role which allows the behaviour to continue and not undermine her entirely.

Then someone shows up what is really going on and of COURSE she will feel awful. Because it's exposed things to everyone that she didn't want them to see.

I feel desperately sorry for her. I have a feeling she may have trouble separating love from abuse, if she grew up with abuse. That's something we can't help her with. It also explains the detachment in her statement that she's 'not some battered wife'.

I think this is something that actual battered wives ought to ignore, because it's clearly said by someone who cannot allow herself to feel like a victim. It's actually just very sad.

RoooneyMara Mon 24-Jun-13 13:00:27

threadkill blush has everyone got distracted by you tube?!

WorraLiberty Mon 24-Jun-13 13:02:50

I'd be more likely to watch any new show of hers than I would have previously

Why? confused

I am genuinely baffled as to why this revelation about her relationship, would make you more likely to watch her cookery shows?

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Mon 24-Jun-13 13:23:12

\o/ waves to the excellent Worra

The author of that horrible phrase now feels a sort of malign benevolence to poor, poor Nigella now. Think of it as being accompanied by a nice 'head pat' and very discreet vigorous thigh-rubbing. wink

Of course, if Nigella's popularity starts to rally, that same author will distance herself from said cookery programme, faster than the speed of slight.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Mon 24-Jun-13 13:24:47

Speed of light that was supposed to be... Freudian, perhaps? shock

WorraLiberty Mon 24-Jun-13 13:26:10

Haha! \0/ still reminds me of someone drowning! grin

<< Splashes back at Lying >>

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Mon 24-Jun-13 13:28:55

Ha! That's not what you said last time, Worra... your flippant repost was more gynaelogical, as I recall... blush

Those were the days, my friend. grin

WorraLiberty Mon 24-Jun-13 13:34:41

Oh God yes I remember!

I must be toning it down in my old age?! shock

<< Grabs zimmer frame with go faster stripes >>

mathanxiety Mon 24-Jun-13 13:50:22

Flipside of fame. It giveth, and it taketh away.

But how can something illegal and horrible that someone else does to you in public take away from you? Does it not take away from him?

mathanxiety Mon 24-Jun-13 13:50:59

I agree with Hully at 13 12:00:10

zoraqueenofzeep Mon 24-Jun-13 14:02:27

yabu, her privacy has been invaded at what must be a very challenging time for her and she is entitled to feel however she feels about that. People are nosy, most of the concern is fake concern; politicians looking to advertise themselves a certain way, the newspapers who are playing on it to sell papers, journalists attention seeking, special interest groups exploiting it to make their own agendas heard and the those of us who are reading it because we are nosy feckers.

Lazyjaney Mon 24-Jun-13 14:08:22

"faster than the speed of slight"

Now that is brilliant smile

Btw am I the only one seeing the irony in this thread dissing other people from talking about Nigella in public fora?

Pagwatch Mon 24-Jun-13 14:12:28

I am not dising people talking about it. I am dissing people who are clearly enjoying themselves by endlessly criticising her when all she has done is a) be famous and b) be attacked by her husband. The op is that she as 'no right' to her feelings.

So not terribly ironic really.

FFS who are you, the Feelings Police.

I feel stressed and anxious at present - would you like to tell me if I am allowed to feel like this?

We are all different, we all have histories which make us feel differently fromthe rest of the population and if Nigella feels frustrated at the moment then she has every bloody right to feel that way.

She also has every right to feel cross with numptys like you IMO.

Jayne3474 Mon 24-Jun-13 14:26:38

I suppose that Nigella Lawson has made a packet out of people being daft enough to buy into the domestic goddess gig, her public persona grates on me-it just does. I realise that she may be very different behind closed doors.

But, you know, when people who are your actual fans and have bought into that persona and may actually care about you because of it, the thing to do would be to shrug it off and not be frustrated by it.

This thread is about are those feelings justified-NOT the actual abuse which, to my mind, is pretty indefensible and clear cut. Anybody's entitled to feel how they feel, but, no I don't think they're particularly justified.

It's hard for her and perhaps when she looks back she'll realise that it's no good being frustrated with anybody else bar her husband who caused all this grief.

In a way being frustrated with other people is classic displacement activity when the person who has been hurt's focus should be on the person who hurt her.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hullygully Mon 24-Jun-13 14:30:59

She wants people to leave her alone and not talk about it so she can see it the way she wants to see it and not the way it is.

fromparistoberlin Mon 24-Jun-13 14:32:57

"‘I am not some sort of battered wife.’

i also suspect she did NOT say that. she has not said a word, so I suspect someone leaked this. It does not jel

maybe wishful thinking, but I suspect she has received literally 10000s of messages of support from other "battered wives" . I just cant see her saying this, sorry

Fenton Mon 24-Jun-13 14:34:55

You are probably right Hully, but why shouldn't she be allowed to do that if that's what she wants.

She has got the clear message that the world thinks her husband is abusive, - up to her what she does with that.

Hullygully Mon 24-Jun-13 14:38:19

Yes, she can let herself be beaten to a pulp if she likes.

I'm not saying she should/shouldn't, tho I'd prefer it if she wasn't on balance.

In an ideal world no one would willingly submit themselves to abuse/violence no matter what they called it to themselves. Don't you think?

Hullygully Mon 24-Jun-13 14:39:18

Actually no, I don't think she should be allowed. I think masochism is most undesirable and dangerous. I wouldn't let someone put a fag out on themselves etc either.

It's why we have laws an shit.

Fenton Mon 24-Jun-13 14:40:52

I didn't mean it like that, Hully (i knew immediately I posted someone would say that)

I mean she should be allowed to deal with her problems, her marriage without everyone saying she has a duty to womankind to LTB very publicly.

Hullygully Mon 24-Jun-13 14:40:57

I do agree with Jayne that her frustration comes from the public knowing their nasty little secret rather than her husband's vile behaviour and that it is displacement.

It will take her a while to see the light.

Jayne3474 Mon 24-Jun-13 14:41:30

As for owing the public 'fuck all', it's not about owing the public anything, it's about accepting that as a famous person people will talk about you and be interested in your life.

Whatever, really, it strikes me as quite incorrect to be frustrated with fans when, really, it is your husband that has caused your woes.

Hullygully Mon 24-Jun-13 14:42:22

Fenton - that's the shit side of the deal you make with the devil though - you get the fame and the glory until it all turns to shit. You can't switch the spotlight on and off to suit.

Fenton Mon 24-Jun-13 14:42:27

..because she is a celebrity.

She owes it to herself to LTB, I agree, - I just don't agree that it should be because she is a celebrity.

I know what I mean..

Hullygully Mon 24-Jun-13 14:43:29

No, she should ltb (after kicking him with all her might in his nasty evil testicles) because he has abused her. the end.

Her nasty little secret is not having anal sex or drinking out of the bloody orange juice carton straight from the fridge, it is being abused by her husband - of course she doesn't want people to know about it as with it comes, shame and guilt and fear and all of those other awful emotions.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Mon 24-Jun-13 14:46:18

Oh do you know her then, Hullygully? I don't. I can imagine that in her place I'd be flitting from one thought to another, trying to focus, thinking of all the people important to me (my children), wondering what the best thing to do would be.

I'd be sifting through what happened, backwards and forwards, thinking this is best then discarding it. Finally, reality would seep in and I'd be bereating myself for having fallen for a man who can't keep his hands to himself. I guess I'd be feeling shock, overwhelming sadness, anger and then grief for what I had - or thought I had - being gone forever.

Then, because I'm in the public eye, not only do I have to focus on my children, myself and my immediate circumstances and situation; i have to explain myself to a publicist and be 'guided' by them as they leave me in no doubt that what I do now impacts my career which, however 'fluffy' it may appear to be, is one that I like. Then... if that weren't enough, I have to distance myself from 'well-meaning' internet advice givers and trolls; the difference between I really can't distinguish. Lucky me, I'm a celebrity.

I suppose I'm lucky in that, should this happen to me, I can rail and weep anonymously and my choices not be used to batter me (again) as a poor example to women everywhere...

I hope that Nigella is far, far away from places like this. sad

Fenton Mon 24-Jun-13 14:46:32

I agree, again.

I guess it's some of the opinions on this thread I don't really like. You're a millionaire celebrity, deal with it.

I feel very sad for her.

Hullygully Mon 24-Jun-13 14:51:36

I agree lying, I just don't write it at such length, I said "it will take her a while to see the light"

I don't think she should just deal with it because she is a "millionaire celebrity" I think she should LTB because he abuses her

That is separate to the spotlight is unavoidable, which it is.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Mon 24-Jun-13 14:52:10

So I'll ask this... would it make a difference if, hypothetically, Nigella had lost one of her children? Does the fact that she's a celebrity sugar-coat her life to such a degree that she should expect cameras to follow her about as she's struggling to hold it together? After all, she's in the public eye, can't switch publicity off and on, dance.with.the.devil.get.a.really.long.spoon and all that other crap...

I mean, she made her money from her persona so there's no limit, right? We all have a right to see her grief-stricken face, from every angle.

What's the difference? Publicity is publicity, right? hmm

Hullygully Mon 24-Jun-13 14:53:01

And "nasty little secret" is because he knows what he does, she knows what he does and it is nasty but they keep it secret (of course)

Hullygully Mon 24-Jun-13 14:54:16

I didn't know you were talking about the rights and wrongs.

I was simply talking about the reality of how it is

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Mon 24-Jun-13 15:08:47

Very blurry between rights, wrongs and reality, I think. Personal parameters go every which way; some people seem to have none.

There's a person at the bottom of all this who has no personal responsibility to anybody but herself so to expect her to behave as some kind of 'LTB icon' is patently unfair.

Hullygully Mon 24-Jun-13 15:11:24

I don't know.

Leaving aside her personal shame and pain, what sort of message does it send if a successful, independently wealthy, bright grown up woman stays with a nasty old man who grabs her throat and twists her nose in public? To both abused and abusers?

Hullygully Mon 24-Jun-13 15:12:36

Because she IS an "icon"

People go on about positive role models etc, so it is hardly surprising that everyone wants Nigella (whom they love and admire) to tell Saatchi to fuck off, is it?

valiumredhead Mon 24-Jun-13 15:13:10

She can feel any way she wants to OP.

charitygirl Mon 24-Jun-13 15:16:23

Jesus Christ, if you don't get that 'How to Eat' was a tongue in cheek title, then you're beyond help really.

Cracking cookbook actually, and v influential.

charitygirl Mon 24-Jun-13 15:19:00

Also, anyone who doesn't realise that those 'quotes from friends' were made up by a newspaper staffer is delightfully naive. That's what 'a friend said' means.

Thumbwitch Mon 24-Jun-13 15:20:51

YABU. She has every right to feel frustrated that aspects of her life are being laid bare and picked over by the vultures in the media and the sleb-loving population.

What her situation is, how she handles it, and how she WILL handle it now it's become more "real" - all this is entirely up to her, not anyone else.

I hope that she decides to break free from him. But it's her choice entirely, and her choice of timescale for it too.

Hullygully Mon 24-Jun-13 15:27:21

Indeed

It might have been more fun had they made up:

"I'm so glad I've finally realised what an utter old cunt Saatchi is," said a relieved Nigella, hanging on the arm on her new 30 year old boyfriend. "All I need now is for someone to squeeze his scrawny old neck and then I can get on with my life."

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Mon 24-Jun-13 15:40:23

I don't know,, Hully. I don't expect 'celebs' to bring up my children or educate or direct them. I know that the 'messgages' are out there but I think it's quite feasible to speak to an old enough child and say, "You know what happened with Nigella? This is not ok. You must never put your hands on another person nor allow them to do that to you, 'mkay?".

She's a human being, not an 'icon' and not resonsible for message-giving. That said, I like your scenario in 15:27:21...

Jayne3474 Mon 24-Jun-13 16:00:36

Within the context that people have bought into the irritating public persona of Nigella Lawson and her fabulous life for reasons I cannot personally comprehend but that's just me love and admire her then, yes, it is understandable that they want to assist her.

You are right, Hullygully, completely right in what you say.

I mean I don't think it's logical to hold her up as a positive role model and, at the same time, ignore her when things get tough for her. That's not the human way.

Still, though, she is obviously confused and in a very difficult place at present and perhaps in time will realise that her frustrations should be directed towards her husband and not the gossipers.

Although the slebs who moan about being photographed while on holiday about having their precious privacy invaded can f* right off.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Mon 24-Jun-13 16:16:59

Some of us just want to leave a hurting human being alone to process and recover their lives.

All the money and celebrity in the world means nothing when yours falls apart.

I feel sorry for people so full of bitter entitlement towards somebody they have no actual investment in.

lottieandmia Mon 24-Jun-13 16:19:15

YABU

Nobody has the right to 'deny' anyone else their feelings. You don't live her life and she can feel whatever she wants.

lottieandmia Mon 24-Jun-13 16:23:51

You can be intelligent and successful but that doesn't make you immune from finding it difficult to leave a relationship where there is domestic violence.

When I saw the pictures to begin with they triggered a memory of how an ex partner treated me but circumstances that surrounded the situation ended up with me believing (wanting to believe?) that what was happening was not abuse. I didn't leave either. My counselor said that people often find it difficult to leave a relationship where there is domestic violence and it's just not as easy as leaving.

MrsDeVere Mon 24-Jun-13 16:25:34

I don't like the way well known victims of abuse are supposed to save us all with their actions.

I am not keen on Rhianna but its not up to her to teach a generation of young women to LTB

Its up to that cunt of a boyfriend to stop hitting women.

Same as NL. I hope she leaves him. But she should be afforded the same respect and support as any other woman dealing with an abusive relationship.

ZZZenagain Mon 24-Jun-13 16:26:45

I've always felt this is her private business and I feel sorry for her that it has been spread across all the papers. I know she chooses to be in the limelight in order to sell books and for her tv appearances but I could imagine she has hated every moment of this media glare.

To me the marriage appears troubled just from the glimpses we have been shown but it is her decision to make. I am sure people close to her have opinions on all this, her sister for instance and she doesn't really need to hear our opinions. I know other people feel differently about this. It isjust my opinion.

WorraLiberty Mon 24-Jun-13 16:29:04

I don't think I know anyone who's thick enough to believe any celebrity's public persona is exactly the same as their private life confused

Hullygully Mon 24-Jun-13 16:48:43

who's got "bitter entitlement"?

That's just weird.

What you want is impossible. You want Pollyanna land where all the celebs skip through flowers in the papers and then the minute something not so flowery happens, there is some kind of media blackout. How on earth do you think that's going to happen??

Hullygully Mon 24-Jun-13 16:50:48

For eg, what about the Oscar Pistorius case?

Should that be reported or not?

Or is it ok because Reeva (sp?) is dead so can't be hurt by the press??

Where and by whom are the lines drawn?

The world we live in now is entirely in public, facebook, twitter, tumblr, snapchat, the CIA listening to every convo...

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Mon 24-Jun-13 17:15:42

No, Hully, I don't want 'Polllyanna' land. I just don't want 'Can't.think.for.myself. and I'm a thick knuckle-dragger' land either. Clamouring for details of peoples' disasters is disgraceful. Do you also support the mobile phone photo culture, Hully, hmm? Taking photos at accident scenes? What's the difference? Where's the cut-off point? I mean - people out and about - fair game, no? Or just a celebrity, in the same circumstances, they bring it on themselves, I expect?

I don't live my life in 'celeb-land', I'm not more than vaguely interested in what they're doing. Maybe that's the difference? However, when something horrible happens, whether they're a 'celeb' or a 'normal human being' I feel sorry for their circumstances.

We don't have 'news' in this country, we have pseudo-journalists who report trite nonsense and a general public who doesn't care largely either way. I do. You want to live in a world of facebook, twitter, and other meaningless applications? Go right ahead and do that. I don't.

I guess the lines are drawn by the way I want to live my life - and I draw them. You do what you like.

I ought to be miffed that you liken me to Pollyanna but strangely, I'm not. The UK isn't what it was, that's for sure.

Hullygully Mon 24-Jun-13 18:15:43

I'm not likening you to Pollyanna, I'm likening your preference to a world of that.

I have absolutely no interest in celebs, I barely watch tv, I only read the Guardian and I have no idea who anyone is. My only point is that you can't have light without dark.

But you are saying you don't want light either, celeb wise, so that's fair enough!

BasilBabyEater Mon 24-Jun-13 19:52:57

Sorry Lyingwitch, if you say that domestic violence is a private matter between a couple, rather than a public matter of a crime, then that is abuse apology. If it is a private matter, why on earth is there a law about it? It's not the state's business to pry into people's private matters.

"It's nobody's business but the people involved"

It is the business of the state. Every crime is and if you say that it's nobody's business that a man assaults his wife, you are abuse-apologising.

I am not making assumptions based on photographs. I am making assumptions based on the fact that Charles Saatchi has a criminal record because he admitted he'd committed a criminal offence. People who keep saying that it's all just assumption when we actually have the evidence of the perpetrator (a man who has access to the best lawyers on the whole of this planet), who says he's guilty, are abuse apologising. Charles Saatchi himself admitted that he is an abuser - we don't have to make assumptions, the perpetrator himself has publicly declared what he is by accepting a caution in order to avoid a court case.

"...considering the media circus that is following what was a private matter, " that is classic abuse apology. It followed a physical assault, which is a crime, not a private matter.

This thread is full of abuse apology.

Nigella's feelings, actions, beliefs of course, are private matters and as I said earlier, I think we should leave her the fuck alone and focus on her vicious violent husband and discuss his feelings, beliefs and actions instead of her's - let's pore over his horrible character instead of her's. But let's not let our acknowledgement of her right to be left the fuck alone, blind us to open abuse apology on this thread.

Hullygully Mon 24-Jun-13 19:54:25

yes

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Mon 24-Jun-13 20:00:17

It's been dealt with as a crime, Basil, hes' been given a caution. That is a matter of public record now. That is where the public's interest begins and ends. Putting her life back together and deciding the way forward is Nigella's business and nobody else's.

Use whatever denigating terminology you like, I don't care about meaningless terms. I care deeply that a woman is in pain and is being publicly held accountable. I think on this last bit, perhaps we agree.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Mon 24-Jun-13 20:03:47

I don't want to talk about Saatchi; what is there to say really? He's vile. I doubt very much that he'll get what he deserves.

I don't like the way that Nigella has been held accountable somehow, that she has responsibility for behaving as the public feels she should. What is wrong with people that they can't think for themselves without celeb endorsement of their thoughts?

Oblomov Mon 24-Jun-13 20:11:44

I'm not sure it is a private matter. She is a celebrity chef. Celebrity.
She plays the game. Bit like the Beckhams. When it suits them. But then later, after courting the press, you can't the turn around and say, no this is off limits. It doesn't work like that with big celebrities.
Correction. It can. But you have to play by the rules. There are many famous actors , for eg, when asked about their personal life, they say no, no comment. Let my work do the talking. And people totally respect that. And don't chase their wife, and photograph their kids.
Or, as the Chris Martin, gywneth scenarios, you court it. That's your choice.
It you court the press. You have to accept when it comes back to bite you on the bum!

Oblomov Mon 24-Jun-13 20:18:23

Rhianna got back with Chris brown. And she seems quite besotted with him. Makes me really sad.
Nigella seems to be playing this down and the comments suggest she intends to 'work at her marriage'.
Both of these, make my heart weep.
I question their self worth and I have a hard time understanding them.

BasilBabyEater Mon 24-Jun-13 21:34:04

Lyingwitch, it's been dealt with as a crime. But there are still people on this thread and in RL, who are saying it is a private matter. That just can't go un-challenged. They're not referring to Nigella's feelings or thoughts or what she's going to do next, they are actually referring to the fact that Saatchi is an abuser who probably regularly commits crime behind closed doors.

Also, it is horrible for Nigella, but precisely because she is a public person, this is not the end of the public bit of the matter. It raises public discussion about DV, that's just inevitable. Appalling for Nigella that a heated public debate should hang off her personal experience, but I just don't know what you can do about that. It would be nice if we could have a debate about DV without someone famous being attacked in public first but the media just aren't very interested in it, are they?

You ask what there is to say about Saatchi, he's just vile - but the thing is, chances are, he's not just vile. We always acknowledge the truism that you can't get to the top of your profession or the greasy pole without being ruthless - but we very rarely acknowledge that you also can't get there without being immensely charming, persuasive and in many cases, charismatic. This extremely rich, powerful, respectable man has confused a lot of people by not fitting an offensive stereotype of abuser as a poverty-stricken incoherent drunk.

I personally think there's an awful lot to be said about abusive men which is very rarely said in the public arena. Whenever DV is mentioned, the instant cry is "why doesn't she just leave?" when the cry ought to be "why does he do it?" That is a public discussion worth having IMO but I very much doubt we will have it, because people will inevitably prefer to discuss her behaviour rather than his. And so the idea that women are responsible for DV (for not leaving when it happens) gets reinforced in the public consciousness. There's no point trying to shut debate down, it's not going to happen - all you can do, is keep pointing out that blaming Nigella for being the victim of DV, or asserting that she has no right to feel the way she feels, is a further abuse of her by the people who do that.

Mimishimi Mon 24-Jun-13 23:24:32

When I said I'd be more likely to watch a show of hers now rather than previously, I meant that in the context of her worrying whether the publicity would have a negative impact on her show or not. My point was meant to be that his behaviour probably won't have a negatIt did come out sounding quite patronising though.

Mimishimi Mon 24-Jun-13 23:28:30

When I said I'd be more likely to watch a show of hers now rather than previously, I meant that in the context of her worrying whether the publicity would have a negative impact on her show or not. My point was meant to be that his behaviour probably won't have a negative effect on how she is perceived. It did come out sounding quite patronising though... as if I'd only enjoy it because I feel sorry for her. That's not the case, everytime I watched her when she came out years ago, I enjoyed the shows. As we now don't have a TV, she is in no danger of getting 'sympathy ratings' from us anyway.

Lazyjaney Mon 24-Jun-13 23:35:03

"You want Pollyanna land where all the celebs skip through flowers in the papers and then the minute something not so flowery happens, there is some kind of media blackout. How on earth do you think that's going to happen??"

It isn't going to happen, which is why we are where we are on this one.

I am quite bemused by so many people on this thread who either believe they know exactly what Nigella should be thinking and doing, and/or are extremely put out that she seems not to be doing what they (stridently) believe is The Right Thing.

Nigella, clearly, has no will of her own.

CambridgeBlue Tue 25-Jun-13 07:25:30

I resent being referred to as an abuse apologist. Having witnessed DV for years as a child there's no apologising going on from me. But having RL experience gives you a different insight.

I despise Saachi's behaviour and think Nigella deserves support from those close to her to gain the strength to leave him (or to work on her marriage if she wishes). But is does have to be her decision and be made when she is ready. Nobody else can do it for her, I know from bitter experience.

What I don't like about the press coverage of this (and the comments on here), apart from everyone looking at what she should or should not do and not focussing on him, is the way she's expected to make a decision about her life based on what Joe Public will think and how her actions may affect them. She didn't ask to be in this situation and does not need the added pressure to be a role model for other abused women.

If her actions do help or inspire other women that's great but she shouldn't be expected to be consider that while deciding what to do about her life.

FreudiansSlipper Tue 25-Jun-13 07:36:33

Totally agree Cambridge

Sadly in situations like this many women do return to their partners. all women (and men) in dv situations need support not to be told to do this or that as that is what their abusive partner is doing they need to find the strength and beleif in themselves hard what it has been knocked out of you

ophelia275 Tue 25-Jun-13 08:44:07

People are discussing her "business" because she is famous and people (rightly or wrongly) are interested in her. She doesn't mind people discussing her business when it earns her a nice big fat paycheck from her books and when she gets her tv show re-commisioned. Unfortunately, negative publicity (if you can call this that) is part and parcel of being famous. You can't pick and choose which parts of your life you want to show the world, the paparazzi will make sure of that.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Tue 25-Jun-13 10:55:19

Basil... Maybe that's the crux of it, when I refer to it being a 'private matter', I'm referring to Nigella's feelings and how she will process them. I'm not referring to the incident because that was Saatchi, not her. She was just the recipient of his disgusting actions. I agree - that is a crime and it isn't - and shouldn't be - a private matter.

I think if the discussion would have focused more on Saatchi and his deplorable actions rather than on Nigella and how 'pathetic she will be if she doesn't LTB', I wouldn't have had a problem with it. However, there are some nasty-minded womenhmm posters on this thread who have made it abundantly clear that Nigella should 'take the rough with the smooth'. I wonder how strong they would be in Nigella's - or any DV victim's shoes right now? Let's hope they don't get to find out.

I think you're bang on the money about the media; they seemingly have no responsibility for the trite and indefensible rubbish that they write. It's down to the public who supports that. I don't know if that will ever change because it's like an insidious 'thickness-sickness' almost.

I don't really know much about Saatchi other than that he comes from an advertising family. I'd like to think that there are rich and powerful people out there who are aware of their power and just don't need to brandish it. I think Hullygully might have been right about "Pollyanna land" there?

Again, I absolutely agree with what you say about the impetus for action always being placed on the DV victim - the woman. While her world is sliding out of view and she's trying desperately to right herself, she's being harangued from many quarters into immediate and involuntary action. That's not ok; even though it's undoubtedly well-meaning by some (excluding the disgraceful hand-rubbing rubber-neckers), it must throw some women into absolute panic; a place they really don't need to be when they're vulnerable.

I really don't want to shut debate down; I think there are enough posters on this thread who have, quite rightly, called the abuse, the victim-blaming and defended Nigella's right to her life and own decisions. The knuckle-dragging posts will continue to illuminate greatly.

I really think we agree on a lot of points somehow but even if we don't, I appreciate your post, it's given me more to ponder, thank you.

BasilBabyEater Tue 25-Jun-13 21:31:42

Thanks LyingWitch as you say, I don't think we disagree on the fundamentals here. I think it's important to distinguish between the public and private aspects of the case and completely agree that the tone of Schadenfreude coming from some posters is really distasteful. I did momentarily wonder if Nigella had slept with one poster's DH or something, she was so hostile in her tone. hmm It's one thing not to be a fan, it's another thing altogether to sound as if you actually hold a personal grudge against someone. I found that rather startling and weird.

mathanxiety Wed 26-Jun-13 00:08:46

Hully -- And "nasty little secret" is because he knows what he does, she knows what he does and it is nasty but they keep it secret (of course)

Yup, and then there is the layer of editorialising by the DM on top to the effect, 'Women, know your place beware of the effect of outing your man on how you will be viewed by those around you.'

mathanxiety Wed 26-Jun-13 00:11:24

While there are certainly private elements to this, the fact that keeping it private is urged by the DM because it could taint a woman if she is known to be a DV victim is a big problem.

Wuldric Wed 26-Jun-13 00:35:01

I luff Nigella.

Think the poor kid has had a bad time of it. Ignore the wealth and concentrate on the essentials. Dodgy Dad, Mum who was a bit mad and a bit nasty, goes on to marry a lovely bloke who then dies, marries again to someone who is a bit abusive and controlling ...

Leave her alone. She might be frustrated by the media attention but then again the media attention might be helping - in the sense of helping her to recognise that she is not in a good place.

BasilBabyEater Wed 26-Jun-13 16:55:12

Yes, that thing about "women shut up about violence because society will judge you worse when it knows you're a victim of it" is awful.

However, it's also true; when women tell other people how they were subjected to violence, there is a subtle change in how people perceive and treat them. That's why so many of us STFU about the violence we've experienced. sad

sudointellectual Wed 26-Jun-13 17:54:08

How to Eat is a great cookbook tho, Jayne. It's really good. It's got marmite sandwiches and birthday cake and menus for different sorts of occasions. And mostly the food is not madly expensive or difficult to cook, and all the recipes work. It's confident and useful in its directions for shopping, and addresses those normal anxieties of how-much-is-enough. The writing is friendly and a bit flirty and silly and fun. It might not be a useful guide to every life or lifestyle, but it's a really good cookbook.

It's not exploitative! It's not slavery, mate. It's marmite sarnies and advice on cheese. Cheese! Nigella Lawson never sold you her soul; just her opinions on cheese. Jeez.

Next week on mumsnet: Mrs Kirkham has no right to feel sorrow. We demand that Granny Delicious make a statement about her miscarriage!

mathanxiety Thu 27-Jun-13 06:59:58

I think that has to change Basil. The only people who benefit are the abusers.

BasilBabyEater Thu 27-Jun-13 20:20:49

This is true, but how?

Women know that if they speak out about their own abuse, people - both men and women - might treat them differently, or at least think of them differently. The shift in attitude may be subtle, but it's unmistakeable. Being honest here, I wouldn't advise any woman to be generally open with all and sundry about having experienced abuse, unless it was a completely safe space for her to do that - and society isn't a safe space for women to talk openly about their experience of male violence or any abuse, because too many people will either disbelieve them, blame them or make judgements about them which may seriously disadvantage them, either in their personal relationships or in the workplace.

For women to feel safe to talk openly about the abuse they've suffered, they need to know they're not going to be re-victimised by negative responses to that. We're nowhere near that and I don't really know what we can do about that. It's a chicken - egg situation but I don't really think we can put the onus on women to be the first one to break the circle - we need to do so much more work on educating most people about DV etc. first.

BasilBabyEater Thu 27-Jun-13 20:31:04

And of course one of the main ways of educating people, is bringing them face to face with the fact that women they know who they would never have associated with the stereotype of a victim of abuse, is in fact someone who has experienced abuse. But she's not going to tell them because she fears they will see her as more fragile, less competent, etc.

It's such a conundrum.

Emilythornesbff Thu 27-Jun-13 21:57:04

I feel for her.
So much pressure on her to be seen to do the "right" thing when it is he who should be helpd accountable for his actions.
So she suffers the assau,t, the humiliation and then the criticism for not acting in a way that sets the proper example to others.it's not fair or supportive or productive.

Also, putting hands to someone's throat is a serious business. He got off extremely lightly IMHO.

I am a big fan of Nigella and her work.(not neccessarily relevant).

Emilythornesbff Thu 27-Jun-13 21:58:51

And sudo yes, "how to eat" is fab.

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