To not want a career? (Serious)

(441 Posts)
MustWakeUp Sun 23-Jun-13 11:32:46

Hi all,

I know it's not a very pc thing to say these days and my parents who are oxbridge educated high achievers are baffled by my 'low ambitions' (anything that isn't law/med/finance = low ambitions and future of mediocrity to them). I understand that this isn't the opinion of most women, but this is just how I feel.

I've never had this burning ambition to be a career woman - I finished my A levels last summer and got 4 A*'s in maths, further maths, physics & art so it's not that I'm not academic. I loved school and I love learning but I just don't want a career. When we had careers advisors come into our school from about yr 9-yr 13 they would tell me about all the different things I could work as for e.g. accountant, actuary, physicist, economist and so on, but the problem was they all just sounded dead boring. I have shadowed plenty of my parents friends in all sorts of science-y and numerate jobs and I honestly don't know how they do it. It is just not suited to me at all.

My parents are only concerned with £££ and prestige. I'm a good painter & I write poetry and I've sold a few of my paintings and had some of my poems published and now my parents (mum especially) are pushing me to do more & more & more, they are turning something I enjoy and find relaxing into a money generating passionless thing.

What I would love to do with my life more than anything is travel the world doing odd jobs the way I'm doing now and then settle down at 25ish & have my own family & be a SAHM but still continue with my painting and poetry. <bliss>

Since finishing my A-levels I've been doing that (sort of) - I temp for a 2-3 months and sell a few paintings, then I travel for as long as my money will last, when I run out of cash I come back for another 2-3 months and temp and paint again...I have seen the most beautiful sights and met the most fascinating and oddest people during this last year and I love my life the way it is now....I am free to go where I please and do what I want, I have no one to answer to at all! I wake up everyday feeling so happy and chill. But the trouble is my parents see me as squandering my 'potential' and have now recruited my aunts, uncles, ex-form tutors even my preacher!!!! to talk some 'sense' into me and to tell me that I need to apply for university and stop living 'like a dirty hippie' hmm and I'm beginning to have doubts myself.....(not about uni, would love to be in higher education someday - but university will always be there!)

so tell me MN, is it BU for some people to just not be interested in the rat race and the corporate world and careers in general? I mean surely, some people just want different things?

NatashaBee Sun 23-Jun-13 11:35:13

It would be boring if we were all the same! Most people go into the rat race and then spend a lot of time working out how to get out of it again by reducing down their outgoings, cutting down their working hours to achieve a better balance, or trying to turn a hobby into a living. Nothing wrong at all with never getting into it in the first place.

HKat Sun 23-Jun-13 11:40:23

You might feel differently in a few years, even if you don't go down the routes your parents want. At 19 I was doing full time bar work -by 24 I'd had enough and went to uni. I actually did do law but this led me to a different career, and certainly not one I'd have envisaged or wanted after my a levels! Do what's right for you.

whoknowsyou Sun 23-Jun-13 11:40:47

Well, if you are coming back home to your parent's house each time your money runs out they are subsidising your relaxed stress-free lifestyle so perhaps you can start to understand why they are a little frustrated at your reluctance to move towards becoming self-supporting.

SkinnybitchWannabe Sun 23-Jun-13 11:41:53

As a parent I want my children to succeed in life..To be able go into that big wide world and have all the opportunities to do whatever they want.
I can see how your parents associate success with money but to me success is doing something you love and living the life we want to lead.
I've not got a great education so I want my dc to try their hardest so, like you, they have so many options.
It seems to me you are living your dream life and shouldn't change it no matter who is trying too.
Be firm with those around you, to me your life sounds amazing...something I wish I had done at your age.
Good luck

Tryharder Sun 23-Jun-13 11:43:07

Well, writing poetry and painting is a career for many people who make a living from it.

You can be a SAHM at the age of 25 if you find a DH who is able to support you.

I think it's easy to say you are not bothered about money when you clearly come from a background where money has never been a problem and you have high expectations of meeting and marrying a man who will continue to support you in the style to which you have been accustomed.

I think you sound naive - and very lucky that you have been able to pursue your hobbies and travel without having to earn a good salary to support a family.

Trills Sun 23-Jun-13 11:43:24

Why is "career woman" a phrase and "career man" is not?

You seem to be making a lot of generalisation about "the rate race" and "the corporate world".

I think YABU to not at the very least want to be an independent self-supporting adult.

battlestarB Sun 23-Jun-13 11:43:32

don't those sort of people just become university lecturers themselves? wink

whoknowsyou Sun 23-Jun-13 11:45:33

Your vision of becoming a SAHM also seems to assume you'll find a partner earning enough to take over supporting you whilst you undertake your preferred role of SAHM.

Do you have no intention of becoming independent in life ?

Fairylea Sun 23-Jun-13 11:45:43

I am like you. I actually gave up a career in senior marketing to be a sahm with a dh who earns just above minimum wage. Never been happier. smile

ChippingInWiredOnCoffee Sun 23-Jun-13 11:45:45

I totally understand how you feel & how you see your life panning out, as well as why you are fed up of being preached at.

However, you are doing that from a very 'cushioned' place. Have you read any of the threads on here by people who cannot make ends meet, who cannot pay the rent/mortgage? Who cannot afford food?

You are young and have a good brain, you enjoyed school & learning - you would be stupid to waste those advantages/skills. It gets much harder as you get older. Spend a few years now, while you are young, able to learn easily and are supported by your parents - getting a good degree and some experience behind you. When you have done that, then you will always have that behind you and you can decide 'what next' and if that's doing what you are doing now -then great... there is nothing wrong with what you want out of life (or think you do right now), Nothing At All - BUT you should put yourself in a position where that is always 'an' option and not your only one.

I don't think there is anything wrong with your plans to travel and see the world while you are young. I think your plan to go from that to a SAHM at 25 without establishing some kind of career is crazy though. What if you don't meet a man? What if the man you meet cheats/abuses you/dies? Even most SAHMs return to work at some point. To think you will never need to work and can just live off a husband until you die is very unrealistic.

Mumsyblouse Sun 23-Jun-13 11:47:56

If you can fund it without relying on others, this sounds a lovely lifestyle, but it's a bit cheeky to find some guy and expect him to work very long hours so you can stay home and potter about, once the early years of childrearing are over, unless you are up front about that from the start. I also suspect that at the moment, you are living in a very nice house when you return to your parents, bought by their career money, and similarly might think the same will happen when older, I've seen this a logt- people who believe they are dropping out when really they are still using the material trappings of other people's hard earned money (e.g. houses, bills) but are very dismissive of their choices.

If you are genuinely happy with very little money-wise and don't expect to live off others who are working in traditional career jobs, then I think your life sounds a good one, and you should definitely pursue the art- just think about how you can become self-financing or really downsizing your lifestyle to fit your own choices.

orangeandemons Sun 23-Jun-13 11:48:45

It what if you don't find a dh at 25?

What if you can't afford to be a sham?

What if you never find a dh?

I think we would all love to do what you do, I would. I'm creative and would love to have time to do my stuff...but I don't have time, as food has to be on the table, mortgage has to be paid.

So nice work if you can get it, but tbh, I think yo will find it an impossible dream. I have a19 year old ds, if he tied up with someone like you I would be a bit hmm. Especially at your age...it just seems like laziness and wanting someone else to look after you to me. Well it's a tough old world, and we all have to work to support ourselves.

How would you work out the finances if your dh was ill/ redundant

onedev Sun 23-Jun-13 11:49:02

As long as you can support yourself & aren't looking for anyone else to do that (state, parents or whoever) then you can do / be whoever you want to be!! Independence is key.

You are young though & may feel differently in a few years. Good luck with however you choose to proceed.

fuzzywuzzy Sun 23-Jun-13 11:50:39

Not all sciency jobs are boring.

Have you considered working in a field that would help others, for a charity, for medical research etc somethign worth getting out of bed for in the morning?

You don't need to be part of the rat race, however it is highly unfair of you to sponge off your parents whilst you live out your chilled lifestyle, it's not their repsonsibility to fund it.

May I suggest as a beginning you move out of your parents house, then they stop having a say in how you live your chilled life.

conorsrockers Sun 23-Jun-13 11:53:04

My best friend is/was just like you. She eventually married and has a lovely life mainly because she doesn't hanker after material things. Life is just too short to do something you don't enjoy if you don't need to. Just because you CAN do it, doesn't mean you HAVE to.

VinegarDrinker Sun 23-Jun-13 11:53:20

There's nothing wrong with an artistic career - it can still be a career. The word doesn't need to be associated with wearing a suit and working 9-5.

I personally wouldn't aspire to be financially supported by someone else forever, I don't think it's particularly sensible or good for your self esteem.

Equally I'm not sure you can be so confident you would love life as a SAHM prior to having kids.

I have a "career" (that your folks would approve of!) - what does it provide me with? Academic/intellectual challenge, a massively expanded sense of the world and everyone in it, social interaction and stimulation, financial independence (including the ability to afford to live in the area I grew up in which is now v expensive), self esteem, a sense of fulfilling a duty to society, contributing financially and socially to society on a wider level....

And four days a week I get to bake, paint, glue, stick, climb, dig, cuddle, read and tickle all day. I love my life grin

(NB This post is in no way meant to knock other people's choices)

rainrainandmorerain Sun 23-Jun-13 11:54:06

OP - Are you seeking approval for the way you feel because you are not getting it from your parents? What are your friends of a similar age doing? presumably you are having conversations about life 'next steps' with them - I don't think your concerns will be unique to you.

FWIW, I don't think it is realistic to be making decisions about your whole life based on the way you feel as someone in their late teens (assuming you are), having just finished your A levels. I also don't expect you to pay any attention to that statement! You're a teenager, it is partly your job to ignore what older people say....

Why not think of what you are doing now, which is a kind of amiable and interesting/fulfilling drifting, as what you want to do NOW? and probably for the next couple of years at least? You don't sound very concerned about money (someone from a v poor family finishing A levels would very likely have a different outlook wrt work/study/money). Fine. You don't have to tell your parents or anyone that this is what you want to do for the rest of your life. You can't possibly know that anyway. You will probably feel differently about all sorts of things as you get older. That's life. Travelling and living very hand to mouth are things that are best done when you only have yourself to look after, and no responsibility for anyone else, so this is the best time for you to do it.

As long as you are happy to be self supporting in your decisions, then you can ask your parents to back off and just let you go your own way for a couple of years, and then you'll see how you feel. If you are expecting them to support you/give you free board whenever you come back from your travels having spent all your money, then you are not in such a strong position to argue for your independence.

BTW, just be careful about setting up an opposition between 'fulfilling, creative, poor' life and 'career/ratrace/obsession with money'. A few of us manage to find jobs that are creative, fulfilling, and also allow us to earn enough money to pay our way, look after our families and be independent. And you would be surprised at who paints/writes poetry in their spare time.

(and I don't think 'pc' means what you think it means! smile)

TimeofChange Sun 23-Jun-13 11:54:39

OP: You have had an amazing year out, but you are not self supporting.

You are benefiting greatly from your parents' ££££ and prestige that you knock.

I expect you save all the money you earn from temping, whilst living in your parents' house (all bills paid) and eating food that they buy, maybe even driving around in a car they have bought.

If you want a simpler life you must be self supporting to be taken seriously, not sponge off others who live in the despised rat race.

Sorry, I don't mean to be harsh, but my Australian niece did what you are doing, but lived with her GPs (my parents) whilst working.
She paid not one single penny towards her keep, but cost my hard up parents quite a lot of money in bigger phone bills, heating, water, petrol & food.

Best wishes to you.

Pendulum Sun 23-Jun-13 11:55:31

It's very easy to be snippy about the 'rat race' when you're not responsible for putting food on the table. How will you buy food and clothes for the children you plan to have? How will you fund university for them if they wish to go? Will you make enough from selling paintings to grow a proper pension fund so that you will not be impoverished in your old age? What if you don't meet a man who wants to support your chosen lifestyle?

And by the way - there is no such thing as a 'career woman'. It is a media invention that implies there is something unnatural about women earning their own money.

Badvoc Sun 23-Jun-13 11:57:25

ATM you seem to be able to do as you please. It sounds like your life is pretty good and I can understand you wanting this to continue.
Ime You cannot live like that as a Sahm.
I would suggest that you offer help to a local sure start centre it similar to see what the life if a sahm on a small wage/benefits is actually like.

Gosh yes do move out, pay your own way in life, stop sponging off your poor parents.

Unless of course you have your own place that you drift in and out of, all chilled like

HoppinMad Sun 23-Jun-13 11:59:23

Yanbu in a way, as you only live once. Its natural to want to make the most of your life without others (though they mean well) insisting on how you should lead it. You sound happy and young, travelling is a great way to meet people, have experiences, and perhaps you may even discover a career that you wouldn't mind going into.

Having said that, it seems your parents are funding your lifestyle when you return home skint, and you may not have this luxury in the long-term. Nor is there the guarantee that you will meet somebody who is well off enough to allow you to be sahm.

I think it is wise to discus the future with your parents, it will reduce their worrying and help you become more realistic. Maybe reach some sort of compromise - eg you 'chill' for another year or so, and after that, seriously consider going into HE/ get a job so you are no longer reliant on their money.

jelliebelly Sun 23-Jun-13 12:00:23

I'm sure lots of people would love that idyllic sounding lifestyle but would you love it quite the same if you had nothing to come back to? Who will provide for your children? Who will pay for your mortgage and household bills? Who will provide for your retirement? I think you sound very naive and suspect you may look back at this in a few years time and cringe. You'll do very well to find a dh at age 25 willing and able to provide for you in the same way that your parents do now.

Sunnysummer Sun 23-Jun-13 12:01:26

YANBU at all not to want a 'career' in the corporate sense.

But as Trills summarises nicely - YABU not to want to become for at least some time an independent self-supporting adult.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with not focussing on money or success, but it would appear that your vision of life depends entirely on other people working to support your 'bliss'. Living at home while temping to earn some money, then graduating to being a SAHM to work on painting and poetry (this is also a very rosy picture of the life of a SAHM!)... Aren't the others lucky, having to work to support all of this? And what happens if and when those sources dry out, or are no longer enough? Or if your sources of funds have their own dreams - do they put these on hold to ensure that they can continue to support another totally capable adult?

As Trills also points out, you sound very naive and I would frankly add, self-absorbed.

KB02 Sun 23-Jun-13 12:02:04

Some good advice upthread. I was also like you but didn't have the preachy family. My grades were such that I could have done a bit more with them. I did go to Uni tho so they were probably confident I would end up with a good job. I never knew what I wanted to do . I did a job for 6 years that suited my ethics but was did not pay enough to get a mortgage and very stressful. I ended up moving outof my parents at 33. Living at home so long really affected my self esteem and I felt like a failure for a long time.

There is a difference between a high flying career and a career that will provide enough for you to live on which would still mean a lot of hard work and forward planning. The cost of living is such that a minimum wage or lower paid job makes life quite a struggle.

If you can think smart and make your hobbies into a moderately well paying job go for it.

You never know when your time to be a mum will come. Could be next year or could be mid thirties like me.

rainrainandmorerain Sun 23-Jun-13 12:03:47

Forgot to say - thinking you will be able to find a man able and willing to earn enough to support you and your hobbies at age 25 while you start a family is not very realistic. Really, you will find very little time with pre-school children, if you are a SAHM and looking after them fulltime, to paint and write poetry (well, you can paint with them, but I doubt you'll be able to sell the paintings!). The main purpose of being a sahm is to spend a lot of hands on time with your children.

So really, you're looking at finding someone who will support you, and also pay for a cleaner/childcare to free you up to do your creative work. Perhaps in the social group you are from, this is possible, but frankly, I think as a 'life plan' it isn't sensible.

howtoapproachmydd Sun 23-Jun-13 12:05:16

It's fine to not want a career in the sense of not wanting promotion or additional responsibility, but you do need to work in order to buy things! grin I enjoy my job but the primary reason for getting up and going to work everyday is motivated by money.

It's easy to say you're not material - we're not, either, particularly - but everyone needs food, warmth and shelter. As a civilised society we provide these things for people who can't work to get them but it is not ethical (imo) to be able to have them and refuse to work.

rainrainandmorerain Sun 23-Jun-13 12:06:51

(argh - am feeling annoyed with self that I have posted here - have just had that 'don't think OP will be back' feeling. Only myself to blame for wasting time though!)

ItStartedInRome Sun 23-Jun-13 12:10:47

OP you sound similar to how I was at your age, although I certainly wasn't as bright or talented as you are. My parents insisted I went to uni then said that after my degree they would help me achieve whatever I wanted to do even of that was an unusual job/living in a commune/ traveling etc. They wanted me to get a degree as no one can take your education away from you. It is always something to fall back on. I did as they asked. Then decided I wanted to earn money and pursued a career. Now that I have established myself and am settled financially I am able to look at a career change/spend time with DC/ pursue other things. My friends who did not go to uni when we were 18-20 all returned to uni later on as mature students. They have all said they wished they had gone when younger as juggling study with paying rent/mortgage/ children is much harder.

RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief Sun 23-Jun-13 12:10:56

Where's Jarvis Cocker when you need him?

CloudsAndTrees Sun 23-Jun-13 12:14:04

I think your life sounds lovely, I could go some of that myself!

But parents get very keen to see their children settled with clear direction when their children hit the age that you are at, it's how they conform to themselves that they've done a decent job.

They may also have plans of their own that don't include you living at home for a few months a year, and you are expecting quite a lot of them if you expect them to provide that for you for as long as you want it.

I don't think there is anything at all wrong with your lifestyle, or what you want from your future, but you do need to think about how you are going to provide yourself with financial security in the future.

amigababy Sun 23-Jun-13 12:18:38

my friend makes a living as a superb and talented photographer, while juggling life with 3 DC's. She didn't originally train as a photographer. I don't think her life went "to plan" but she's ended up doing something incredibly creative but where people will pay for what she does.

If you have a real talent you will get to where you want to be, here or abroad, single or with someone who will support you (and I don't necessarily mean financially.) I'm a bit woo, and believe very much in the law of attraction, which seems to have worked for me. It could work out for you if it's meant to be. Be happy!

Pendulum Sun 23-Jun-13 12:19:24

Ha RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief, I had the same thought exactly!

MustWakeUp Sun 23-Jun-13 12:21:17

Hi smile

Thank you for your responses, I feel like I need to make a few things clearer!
My parents opinions would be (rightly) justified if I was living with them! Thankfully I am not.

When I'm in the UK I live with my lovely boyfriend of 2 years (I moved in with him after school ended), I have been very upfront with him about my dreams of travel and being a SAHM etc. I didn't want to spring it on him years down the line. He is in full agreement with me seeing as he is my polar opposite career wise and is a very disciplined man and works like 60-80 hours a week in a v good job and at only 24 he is on six figures and hopefully will treble that salary in the next 6 years if he continues the way he is doing now, however he loves his job - it is all he wanted to do since he found out that field existed and he is perfectly content with supporting me & me not wanting to work crazy long hours in a stressful job like he does. He wanted to get married this summer but I managed to get him to wait till I turn 21 and am a bit more ready.


Trills Why is "career woman" a phrase and "career man" is not? Good question, I don't know!

orangesandlemons it just seems like laziness and wanting someone else to look after you to me Not laziness at all, when I am temping I work in an office during the day and at a bar during the night, not mentally taxing I agree, but it is still work

scottishmummy Sun 23-Jun-13 12:26:59

who's going to fill fridge,pay bills,whilst you potter about painting and doing pottery?
to date it's bank mum &dad.presumably as housewife you'd expect dp to finance your hobbies?
you've been extremely cushioned from financial reality of needing to work and just seem to expect to marry well to maintain lifestyle

janey68 Sun 23-Jun-13 12:28:46

I think you sound a tad naive and very fixed in your views.
There's a lot of advantages in taking a flexible outlook on life, and having the capacity to adapt and step up to new situations

Your bf may decide he doesn't want to work 60/80 hours a week if he has a child. He may want to spend some time with his children. Even if he still has a burning desire to work those hours, it may not actually be great for the children as IME as a parent, kids quite like a hands on relationship with both mum and dad.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf Sun 23-Jun-13 12:29:34

You're not 21 yet?
Explains a lot.

TimeofChange Sun 23-Jun-13 12:30:28

OP: Thank you for coming back with more info.

I think you life sounds lovely - I think I maybe slightly envious!

Best wishes to you.

MustWakeUp Sun 23-Jun-13 12:33:59

scottishmummy you've been extremely cushioned from financial reality of needing to work and just seem to expect to marry well to maintain lifestyle

but what is so wrong about this? on an estimate I would say 50% of women I know have done this and they seem to have happy calm marriages.

scottishmummy Sun 23-Jun-13 12:34:30

so that it then?marry well become a housewife to man who earns well?
no wonder you don't fancy rat race,but you've got a dp who will earn well? oh i see he works ft hard so you don't need to sully yourself in rat race.

oh pwincess how nice you'll not be in nasty rat race

MarshaBrady Sun 23-Jun-13 12:34:47

And lo Jarvis did just play on radio 6.

Well you've got the source of funds- your parents now your Dp.

You may as well carry on as you are, I can't see you doing a turnaround.

scottishmummy Sun 23-Jun-13 12:37:46

you are chosing marry well as path?
your achievement will be prosperous marriage
sad. really sad

noddyholder Sun 23-Jun-13 12:40:57

I think if you are artistic and good at it you can have a career and be a sahm and earn a good living. I never wanted to do the typical career thing I find the whole office corporate set up dull and soul destroying and could never really operate officially in the typical hierarchical workplace set up. I have a lot of academic qualifications too but I always knew it wasn't for me. I worked in lots of temporary jobs and travelled all through my 20s and when I got pregnant with my ds at 28 I knew I would never go back to work unless I was freelance. Keep going with your poetry and painting esp if your partner supports you and make that your business. You may find once children do come along you will want something else but you may not. I had a friend at uni like that she knew she just wanted to stay at home etc and she has done it and at 52 I don't think I know anyone happier or more fulfilled.

noddyholder Sun 23-Jun-13 12:41:49

efficiently not officially!

MustWakeUp Sun 23-Jun-13 12:42:41

scottishmummy erm hmm I didn't say I'm choosing 'marry well' as a path, I asked what was wrong with it?

Also in my op, I have said I will study at university when the time is right for me, right now it isn't.

KittensoftPuppydog Sun 23-Jun-13 12:43:14

Well I can understand you totally. My approach was to do the job, get the money, invest it, and now in my fifties, have the sort of lifestyle you want.
Do I wish I'd done it earlier? I didn't enjoy a lot about my career but it paid well and gave me independence. If I'd done it earlier it would have put all the pressure on my dh to keep going, and during a long life you can't always be sure that you or he won't change.
On the other hand, I am so glad I'm out of the working world. Very overrated. And there's a lot to be said for living for the day.

Disguisethebumpbump Sun 23-Jun-13 12:43:22

What happens if your high earning DP decides to break up with you? Where's your source of income then? Struggling to get by on temp wages and bar work isn't fun when you are 30.

Or what if you want to break up with your DP but are basically trapped as you have no earning potential and your parents decide to no longer subsidise you?

Take some time-travel, work in temp jobs, but keep your options open. In a few years you might quite like the idea of training as something and it might just take a few years for you to figure out what might interest you.

I have a high earning DP but I still want to retain my independence especially my financial independence so I have a career-I don't love it but that's okay I love lots of other things!

KittensoftPuppydog Sun 23-Jun-13 12:43:59

Oh, and I didn't have the kids. Makes it easier.

MustWakeUp Sun 23-Jun-13 12:44:18

noddyholder thanks

noddyholder Sun 23-Jun-13 12:44:30

Mustwake do what feels right. My mother sacrificed her relationship with her children and put work first and she is now old with the most miserable life We are not all the same. I actually know one man who has done this too He just wanted kids and to stay at home and no one looks down on him His wife is a high flyer and she loves the workplace and supports him

scottishmummy Sun 23-Jun-13 12:45:54

yes you have actually been v clear your 6figure dp,and housewife is a choice for you
you've been clear you've observed this as ok in your circle and don't want rat race
you've not elaborated much on do qualities other than ability to earn well and keep you.

noddyholder Sun 23-Jun-13 12:46:47

I am financially independent totally it doesn't necessarily compute that you can't be.I agree the workplace is over rated Most people kill themselves for years and miss out on life.

chocoluvva Sun 23-Jun-13 12:46:50

There's nothing wrong with not wanting a career. Of course not. I feel that western society is too focused on defining yourself by what you do, ie for your work.

We can't have it all (usually) - if you don't mind not having a good, independent income that's fine. Equally, if having plenty of money (for whatever reason) is very important to you then you have to accept that you'll have to give up other things - time usually and often the freedom of choosing to live close to your family. People who complain about having too little leisure time, or not having the time to spend with their children - even though they have a lot of disposable income - irritate me.

My DD is musically gifted. She hopes to make enough to support herself from it, but also thinks she's like to be a SAHM when the time comes. She's only 16!

Takingbackmonday Sun 23-Jun-13 12:50:47

Nothing wrong with your plans OP.

I do similar plus postgrad courses; am 25 now and perfectly happy

OneHandFlapping Sun 23-Jun-13 12:51:40

It's not exactly a relationship of equals between you and your DP is it? He works 60 - 80 hours a week while you swan around.

He pays for everything, while you do what?

I would worry about the attitudes of man who finds that acceptable in a partner. Be careful he doesn't think he has bought you.

pinkyredrose Sun 23-Jun-13 12:52:36

Way to drip feed OP.

Loa Sun 23-Jun-13 12:56:52

Well as long as love comes into the marriage at least somewhere and your not just exploiting your guy as a convenient meal ticket and your both happy and you treat each other well - what everyone else wants for you is irrelevant.

You can study with OU and small DC - I've done it though obviously you have to pay - I had savings from working and the DC do take up the bulk of the time. You can also start careers later if you change your mind or find an area your are passionate about.

However if you guy loses his job or change his mind about working or leaves you in the future you'll be very vulnerable - mind you unhappy situations happen if you wait start a career and then become a SAHM.

MustWakeUp Sun 23-Jun-13 12:57:30

OneHandFlapping He doesn't think he has bought me! He is the son of one of my father's oldest friends & I have known him since birth. He is so gentle and kind and generous, I really am very fortunate that he is in my life.

MustWakeUp Sun 23-Jun-13 13:00:44

Loa I love him very much. He complements me perfectly i.e. I tend to be scatter brained, indecisive and flighty but he is very strong minded, dependable, solid and when he decides something, that is it no wishy washy bs with him.

rainrainandmorerain Sun 23-Jun-13 13:03:30

I think from what the OP says, her family and husband to be are so well off that she will never need to earn more than 'pin money'. Most advice on this thread is good but aimed at people who are not in that position. (What does trebling a 3 figure income actually mean? Is the potential husband going to be earning half a million a year by the time he's 25? Heavens).

FWIW, I have met a couple of 'princesses' who have been/will always be looked after very well financially - they both had artistic 'hobby' activities (interior design/painting) were very 'boho/yummy' and fwiw, seemed very happy. That said, they seemed to have a certain duty to host and entertain husband's friends with dinners and so forth - so it might be worth keeping that in mind.

I think OP you are in a very privileged position, and I don't think it will be worth your while getting 'approval' for your choices here - I just don't think anyone is in your position. Maybe I'm wrong and MN is heaving with trustafarians!

thebitchdoctor Sun 23-Jun-13 13:03:31

Here OP have my very first biscuit

scottishmummy Sun 23-Jun-13 13:04:25

aren't you troubled that your whole hoped for lifestyle is dependent upon a well earning man
what's your part in all this?what will you contribute or do you just take and spend
it's unequal,and somewhat old fashioned In outlook.housewife in Home Counties?

noddyholder Sun 23-Jun-13 13:04:53

Why do you have to define yourself in relation to your partners earnings. SO we must all work equal hours etc just so we don't feel bought? What nonsense. Some people love working long hours and pressure etc some don't. He doesn't sound like the OP has sent him down pit to provide her a certain lifestyle. My advice is make yourself financially self sufficient never rely on a man for money and do your own thing. If he is feeling the pressure to work these hours to pay for your lifestyle more fool him.

IrisScentedCandle Sun 23-Jun-13 13:06:29

I don't either. I want money obviously. But I would prefer to have just enough than to turn myself inside out just to have more money. I want to take it easy even if that measn having less money.

scottishmummy Sun 23-Jun-13 13:07:02

if he were skint,and decided 6figure rat race job not for him would you still feel same?
if he remains same character but considerably poorer will you remain his dp

IrisScentedCandle Sun 23-Jun-13 13:08:09

ps, I am single so I can say this. It seems like you can't OP, because you're married?? confused Why would everybody want a career? Mind you, I don't have the lifestyle! but I am ok with that.

GetStuffezd Sun 23-Jun-13 13:10:11

I'm going to speak plainly here as this has bloody irritated me.
It would be the most stupid and short sighted thing you cold possibly do to not equip yourself with some work skills. Your relationship sounds lovely, yes, naice boy from naice family, etc etc. but just cast your eye over the Relatioships board, OP, and count up the threads by women who married in good faith, only for their husband to have an affair, leave out of the blue, etc. And then take a look at the number of women trying to find work!

You DO NOT KNOW what is round the corner and if you have no means of supporting yourself when things go wrong in life, you're fucked. I might not have the lovely man and stunning home, etc. But I've worked hard for a bloody good job which means I will never need to rely on anyone else.
Just think about your future. Bite the bullet and do some career research. You love all things creative and are obviously academically bright. Why not teach? You might not want to do it forever, but you've GOT THE OPTION!

I don't understand the attitude of expecting someone else to provide. I can see how and why it happens in some circumstances when people are already down the line of having a family and it's the best thing in those circumstances. But I came from a priviledged background with parents who would, if circumstances made it necessary, financially support me for life. But they brought me up to assume I would, on the whole, provide for myself, and I do.

kerstina Sun 23-Jun-13 13:11:14

Take no notice of some of the bitchy replies on this thread. It sounds like when the time comes you will make a wonderful stay at home mom as it will be no sacrifice for you. If your DP works long hours you can support him but in a different way by always being around for the children etc.
I worked full time up until having DS and part time after but have never been particularly ambitious and enjoy pottering rather than a high pressure job. We are all different and good job not everybody is like you and I as there would be no functioning society as we know it !

MustWakeUp Sun 23-Jun-13 13:13:16

theBitchdoctor what does the biscuit mean?

rainrain I don't mind hosting and entertaining, it is a lot of fun as I enjoy planning things.

scottishmummy what IS your problem? Is contribution only financial then?

bragmatic Sun 23-Jun-13 13:14:11

I say, what a stroke of good luck that you fell in love with a high earner. Imagine it if you'd fallen in love with a fellow painting/poetry writer/traveller. Now that would be a bitch.

Noddy, you do realise there is a gaping chasm between sacrificing your children for your career, and, well, not.

MustWakeUp Sun 23-Jun-13 13:16:13

Bragmatic it wouldn't have been a bitch as hunger is a powerful motivator

scottishmummy Sun 23-Jun-13 13:17:01

I have no problem,you do seem intemperate when challenged on aspects of princess world
if you're resolute why are you so touchy?depending upon someone else is risky
it's an old fashioned outlook to desire to be housewife to prosperous an

chocoluvva Sun 23-Jun-13 13:18:03

If you're prepared to take the risk of being financially dependent on your partner, so be it.

I'm extremely glad of the work done by feminists to give women the choice of how they live their lives but that doesn't mean that all women ought to be ambitious. Doesn't the work of bringing up children well and supporting a loving partner to do their demanding work have any value? If that lifestyle makes the OP happy, I'm delighted for her.

So you'd be happy to live within your means, with no one "providing". Then fine - plenty of people support themselves on min wage jobs. But if you want the fancy lifestyle with no plans yourself of contributing financially at any point at this stage in your life, then I think that's a little off.

ithaka Sun 23-Jun-13 13:18:19

I come from a wealthy family but don't want to earn a living myself. AIBU to marry my rich boyfriend so he can support me financially all my life?

I am so glad my girls' don't think like you - I would worry for them greatly if their plan was to marry at 21 in order to avoid the world of work.

Primrose123 Sun 23-Jun-13 13:18:19

I would worry about the future to be honest. What if your DP is ill, loses his job, the job market changes, or he leaves you? No job seems to be secure for life these days. You need some way to support yourself in case things go wrong.

If I were you, I would go to university now. It is much harder to study when you have children. Do it now, get your qualification and then travel etc. You should be able to get better jobs when you travel if you have a degree.

I got a degree and worked etc., and then gave it up to be a sahm, and loved it. Now, however, my children are older and I want to go back to work. I have good qualifications, but it is very hard for me to get a decent job. I am willing to study anything if it will get me a decent position, but everything seems very hard to get into. When I gave up work originally DH was earning far more (he is self-employed) but because of the recession in the last few years, he now earns less, and all our bills have sky-rocketed. We are ok, but not in the same financial position as we used to be.

What I am trying to say is that circumstances change, and you might not be able to do anything about it. I would get as many qualifications and as much experience as you can before becoming a sahm just to be safe for the future.

Actually I have a feeling this thread is a trap and I have just walked right into it...

bragmatic Sun 23-Jun-13 13:18:55

So is a fat wallet, eh?

GetStuffezd Sun 23-Jun-13 13:20:50

Me too, stealth!

Primrose123 Sun 23-Jun-13 13:21:20

Also, if you don't want to go to university, why not train to be a hairdresser or beauty therapist? My mobile hairdresser told me she trained but didn't have to do any exams. She loves her work and earns good money. You could work the hours that you want and would always have something to fall back on if necessary.

this sounds like soething a parent has posted, posing as their teenager!

anyway, not sure how you can really know when you have only just left school that by 25 you will want to be a sahm.

but having said that this is YOUR LIFE and obnly you can decide what is right for you, so go for what you think will make you happy
if that isart and poetry go for it

Frenchvanilla Sun 23-Jun-13 13:23:18

That all sounds lovely. But your parents are still supporting you.

You have to do something.

Something that will facilitate your travels, ie scuba diving instructor, skiing instructor.

Look at it this way, if you go to university you can travel during the (very long) holidays. You'll meet lots of likeminded people, and you can paint too. Why not do a BA in fine art? It sounds like you'll get a lot out of it.

You do need to get cracking though. I had friends who started at 21 and they felt OLD compared to all the 18 year olds. You have a very small window of opportunity to a degree without being a mature student (which you are from the age of 21!!)

I don't really understand why you wouldn't want to, tbh. Aren't all your friends coming back with stories of how ahh-maa-zing uni is? Don't you feel a bit pedestrian and left behind?

Illustrated Sun 23-Jun-13 13:24:03

Hello,

I thought I would put my thoughts to you as I had very similar feelings although I'm not much older (23)

I come from a pretty privileged background and have always been pushed like crazy to go to university and achieve and make lots of money. I'm artistic and wanted to pursue that as well as my dream of having a family of my own.

I finished college and decided to get a job (only minimum wage) and move out. In my spare time I got to do illustration. About a year later I quit my job due to illness and concentrated on creative things, it didn't pay the bills though so had to go back to a different job.

Fast forward a few years. Met someone, got further with illustration, had a baby, became a sahm (although could only just afford it on dp's minimum wage job, tax credits and what I earnt in illustration)

Right now I'm a single mum with no time to illustrate and no money to make money (buying frames, materials etc.) I do wish that I had chosen something to do alongside my illustration as I don't know anyone that makes a living of just selling art and commissions - they usually have another job too.
I regret relying on someone else completely for bringing in the money.

If I could give you any advice it would be DONT rely on anyone else, DO pursue what you love, DO get another job (whether you enjoy it or not - that's life) just so you know you could pay all the bills if you had to.

Frenchvanilla Sun 23-Jun-13 13:24:58

I thought this was a reverse AIBU as well.

What 19 year old without children knows acronyms like SAHM?

chocoluvva Sun 23-Jun-13 13:25:23

But the OP does work. She has the qualifications to probably get a well-paid job. Doesn't mean she HAS to have a career.

hermioneweasley Sun 23-Jun-13 13:25:33

You are unrealistic to think that you will remain with your first serious boyfriend until you die. If he's as high an earner as you say, there will be plenty of pampered princesses waiting to get their claws into him.

MustWakeUp Sun 23-Jun-13 13:26:34

No trap, I wanted the opinion of women who had experienced life etc.
and yes I've browsed the relationship board, but mine isn't dysfunctional like that and most aren't.

flowers

bouncingbelle Sun 23-Jun-13 13:27:30

Why not go to university- it's fun, you get long holidays to go travelling and you get to meet lots of interesting people - not just mummy and daddy's friends children! It's not going to be the same experience if you are ten or 15years older than other students if you decide to go later. An education is something nobody can take away from you. I used to think like you op and unfortunately life doesn't always work out the way you think it will - you can't rely on anybody else to look after you.

moisturiser Sun 23-Jun-13 13:27:38

I don't think there's anything wrong with not being ambitious for a high flying career, you should do what makes you happy.

However, you have absolutely no idea what is round the corner. Illness, disability, affairs, death. I think in life you should set yourself up as securely as possible, work hard, take every opportunity so that you have a better chance of having a good life whatever is thrown at you. Life is extremely competitive nowadays and if you have few qualifications you're limiting yourself to minimum wage work for which there is a lot of competition.

And people change their minds. It would be awful if you got to 30 or 40, found that suddenly you valued things which your friends had (because they've worked damned hard for them) and they'll never be open to you. I do have friends and family who have lived the life you want, one has had the most exotic, exciting life travelling, living in glamorous locations, meeting amazing people. He has nothing to show for it - no money, no house, no wife/partner, all his friends are now married with children or at least settled in a good career. He has had to come home to England (struggling to get work, feeling he needs to put down roots) and live on his sister's sofa and put up marquees for crap money. What seemed an amazing life 10 years ago is, frankly, shit, now.

If I were you I'd go and do a degree and find a job which let me travel - something in tourism perhaps. And pay my own way around the world whilst building a cv at the same time.

Don't shoot yourself in the foot when you clearly could have so many opportunities.

Cherriesarelovely Sun 23-Jun-13 13:27:44

Yanbu, fair enough. It's great if you are able to do the things you enjoy and pay your way. However, quite often life doesn't turn out the way we expect, you may not meet a man who wants to have dcs so that you can be a sahm. Equally, you may find yourself on your own with Dcs and if you don't have any training or a reasonably paid job it could be very hard. You may also get very bored later on in life and want to train for a job but be unable to because you jave young kids and it's too hard to juggle it all.

I have several friends who have taken a similar road to the one you describe. Most of them have eventually compromised and found a steady job that pays the billswhile doing their music or art in their spare time.

MustWakeUp Sun 23-Jun-13 13:28:10

primrose a hairdresser shock why on earth would I do that?

Doyouthinktheysaurus Sun 23-Jun-13 13:28:25

You may not have a clear path set out for you at 19 but you should recognise 'independence', financial and otherwise as a goal you and all of us should aspire to.

To be so reliant on someone else leaves you in an extremely vulnerable situation.

scottishmummy Sun 23-Jun-13 13:29:49

in real life will you be as touchy and intemperate as you are on mn when asked about your blingy housewife life?

Phineyj Sun 23-Jun-13 13:30:02

OP, bear in mind that when you have children with a man in the type of job you are describing, you are essentially a single parent, which can be tough no matter how much money you have. At the very least make sure you start building a good circle of supportive friends as you will need them because your DH will never be around when there are worries about the children. You will also need paid childcare in order to do the sort of things most of us get done at the weekends when we have handed kids over to our partner.

Realistically, you and DH will have less and less in common over the years as you will not see each other for days at a time.

I certainly think it's hard for both people in a couple to have careers if what you mean by that is 80 hours a week, but you would be in a much better position if you got a professional qualification such as teaching, accountancy (book keepers are in plenty of demand, doesn't have to be full on chartered accountancy) or HR. You get paid for work because it is boring! Enjoying it is great but not a given -- I enjoy parts of my job very much but some of it is tedious.

I am not dissing creative work at all but it takes MORE effort to succeed as a painter or poet (certainly to make a living from it) than more conventional routes. Everyone I know who does creative work has a bills-paying type job as well.

Also your boyfriend's job is presumably in the City but you personally would probably get on better somewhere where your values are considered more normal and the cost of living is much cheaper - not London.

forgetmenots Sun 23-Jun-13 13:30:43

Yanbu - it's your life. Your parents are probably just worried that you're missing out on opportunities that may not be open to you in ten years - they don't want you to have regrets. I'd bet you would regret ignoring your own passions more.

GetStuffezd Sun 23-Jun-13 13:30:52

yes I've browsed the relationship board, but mine isn't dysfunctional like that and most aren't.
Offensive and naive in the extreme. So there this no possibility whatsoever your relationship might crumble? Did these other women just settle for idiots instead of decent chaps?
Good luck to you OP.

dramaqueen Sun 23-Jun-13 13:31:03

What a soul destroying thread.

I'm out!

forgetmenots Sun 23-Jun-13 13:31:27

Eeek huge x post, page didn't refresh!

GetStuffezd Sun 23-Jun-13 13:31:38

Ah. Just seen the hairdresser comment. Don't think we should feed this one any more.

florascotia Sun 23-Jun-13 13:33:15

I think you deserve some credit for wanting to discuss your lifestyle choice. How lovely to be able to travel, and how great to be so talented. I wish you well, whatever you choose.

This may be a daft question, but what about art college, even if only part-time? Not now, but maybe after a few more years of your current lifestyle. (I wonder whether perhaps you are still reacting to the intensively achievement-focused last few years of schooling? I loved school and studying too, but sometimes my teenage years seemed far too much like a treadmill...)

I know many creative people who are passionate about their art or craft.They are not very materialistic, either, and - especially if their husbands/wives/ partners are artists, too - few have much money. But almost all of them have spent three, four, even six years studying to widen their knowledge/ challenge their ideas/improve their skills. They studied because they found it interesting. But, like you, some of them did spend quite a bit of unstructured time before returning to study. And, who knows, perhaps that time out helped their creative powers to mature and develop?

However, I agree with other posters that, in an ideal world, it's good for any adult (man or woman) to be able to support themselves financially, if they can and if the need arises. Not only for practical reasons or because it's good for self-respect (though those are important), but because, as Virginia Woolf said long ago in 'A Room of One's Own', financial independence allows creative freedom. You may never need to support yourself and/or a family, but IMHO it's probably wise to at least think about the possibility.

IrisScentedCandle Sun 23-Jun-13 13:33:43

I take back my comments earlier because I am not 19. I am in my 40s and I know what I want and how hard I am prepared/not prepared to work for it. I also have children and at least three fairly serious relationships behind me.

Primrose123 Sun 23-Jun-13 13:33:51

primrose a hairdresser why on earth would I do that?

Because one day you might find you have to support yourself and it is a good honest job. That's kind of insulting to hairdressers too. Are you too good for that?

I have A levels, a degree, and a post graduate qualification, and I don't think being a hairdresser is beneath me.

Phineyj Sun 23-Jun-13 13:35:15

Nothing wrong with hairdessing -- always in demand, requires little equipment and can't be outsourced to another country. It would also greatly annoy your parents grin

OP, you have no idea at the age of 19 how your relationship will go. I am not being patronising, I married the man I was with at the age of 19.

Primrose123 Sun 23-Jun-13 13:35:40

I'm starting to think this may be a troll.

Phineyj Sun 23-Jun-13 13:37:25

Hairdressing

kerstina Sun 23-Jun-13 13:37:34

Hairdressing is creative in the same way makeup artistry is. I would love to have a hairdresser that had an interest in art as I know they would really know what colours, cuts would suit.

QueenCadbury Sun 23-Jun-13 13:38:51

If both you and your boyfriend are truly happy with the situation then fine, carry on. But how does he really feel when you go off travelling for months at a time leaving him to pay the mortgage/bills/sort out repairs etc.

We all have plans for our lives but they don't necessarily always work out so it's often good to have a back up plan. If you spilt up with boyfriend can you afford to support yourself? What if either of you are infertile and can't have kids? I know it's a lot of what ifs but it's all important to consider. At 19 life appears rosy but you asked for input from those of us with life experience and we're giving it to you.

Cherriesarelovely Sun 23-Jun-13 13:39:44

I honestly think you will regret it if you don't do some kind of training or further ed while you are unencumbered. As Primrose says it is much harder to do so when you have a family and other responsibilities. However, no disrespect to you at all if you choose not to, just make sure you can support yourself and don't rely too much on others providing foryou forever.

zzzzz Sun 23-Jun-13 13:39:49

You sound extraordinarily self absorbed and silly. You are planning a life as a parasite, contributing nothing. What a waste.

I hope life is kind to you and the "me me me" bubble bursts in a way that doesn't hurt you or yours too much.

Wake up little girl, there is work to do.

DontmindifIdo Sun 23-Jun-13 13:39:55

OP - I have a friend who's like you. She never really wanted to work, she wanted to be a SAHM, play perfect hostess in a nice house and be a good support to her DH's career. She went to uni in order to meet an appropriate young man once the one she'd lined up at A levels decided that actually he fancied going off travelling and not joining the rat race. She unfortuately didn't meet a man who wanted that from a wife and she's most annoyed that at 35 she's still single, working as a teacher - a job she doesn't like (which was her fall back job after not thinking about her career) and being very jealous that I've got something close to the life she wanted.

An aunt of mine was most annoyed in her 40s when my uncle had a nervious break down in his mid-40s. He had a very good job in a bank, she had been a SAHM since uni. He got what would be a good pay out, but it just cleared the mortgage and left nothing to live off, so she had to go to work to support the family. Having not worked other than 'pin money jobs' and that wasn't going very far - their standard of living dropped dramatically. (thankfully they'd decided against private schools, she would never have been able to keep them afloat if they had those to pay)

Basically, you might plan out your life, but it might not work out that way. I would suggest at least going to uni even if you don't use your degree now, you'll at least have it - rather than thinking in terms of which degrees are going to lead to a job, think in terms of what interests you to study, (art?) then travel in the holidays. Over the course of your degree, you will come across people who share your interests who might be able to discuss careers that actually interest you, rather than careers that interest your parents and their friends. It would be good to be able to have the option of being independent, even if you don't exercise that option. And once you are married and have DCs, returning to Uni and starting a career is very very hard.

angeltulips Sun 23-Jun-13 13:39:56

Why haven't you already married him OP? What are you waiting for?

I think you're absolutely bonkers to not even go to university - you are effectively shutting yourself out from any kind of skilled job for life. And university is only in term for c 20 weeks a year, so you could still travel, paint etc. Why not go and study English lit and major in poetry? I'm sure your writing would be the better for it

I personally couldn't take the risk of being so dependent on another person - what if your dp burns out at some point? What if he falls ill? But, if you are comfortable with that risk - go for it.

GetStuffezd Sun 23-Jun-13 13:40:47

£20 says this gets to 798 posts of SAHM vs WOHM drivel.

noddyholder Sun 23-Jun-13 13:41:07

I love the way these threads always have a sly dig at interior designers as some sort of pin money job for kept women. I earn more than a lot of men I know grin.

MustWakeUp Sun 23-Jun-13 13:41:11

I am not a troll, is my AIBU that strange?

I meant nothing about the hairdressing, I was imagining my mothers face if she walked into a salon with her friends and I was in uniform waiting to do their hair. She would kill me.

jojomalone Sun 23-Jun-13 13:42:46

I think your twenties should be about throwing yourself into something/ everything, having amazing/ silly experiences, earning your own money, developing yourself and your skills, learning lessons and coming out the other side...

You sound a bit entitled and as if you think you know all the answers. Believe me, you really don't. Life will throw things at you that don't figure in your plan and you have to be able to cope.

I had a friend who chose the life you describe. Was always a bit lazy/ work-shy (not saying you are), in a relationship as a kept woman from the age of 19 with a wealthy guy with his own control issues who it suited for her to stay at home. By 25 she had little to talk about with the rest of us who were off doing our thing and had become moody and withdrawn. By 30 she was not a very nice person, trying to put others down to make herself feel better. She has a child now but I have heard that is not living up to her expectations and she finds it hard. Beware.

No. Good plan op. Marry a rich husband, pursue your interests and keep a nice house.

noddyholder Sun 23-Jun-13 13:47:35

I thought you wanted to write and paint?

Corygal Sun 23-Jun-13 13:48:18

If you really care about poetry, an English degree is the fastest way to learn about it. Ditto art.

As to scabbing about not doing much, I think that's more than fine.

JazzDalek Sun 23-Jun-13 13:49:31

You lost me when you were sniffy about hairdressers and assumed your relationship will never falter.

MustWakeUp Sun 23-Jun-13 13:50:06

I do noddy, someone mentioned art college...sounds lovely.

noddyholder Sun 23-Jun-13 13:51:47

Art college would indeed be lovely.

chocoluvva Sun 23-Jun-13 13:55:06

Or a part-time OU course in something that interests you. You could do mix and match modules in, eg creative writing, history of art etc

RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief Sun 23-Jun-13 13:55:49

Mine's a Bacardi and coke OP I forgive you though cos it's been entertaining.

Viviennemary Sun 23-Jun-13 13:56:07

YANBU not to want a career. YABU to expect other people to financially maintain you as a right. As an adult you should at least have the means to support yourself even though you may come to an arrangement with a future partner that one of you works and one stays at home.

MustWakeUp Sun 23-Jun-13 13:58:21

RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief grin

Lj8893 Sun 23-Jun-13 14:00:02

I was in a lovely relationship at 19, I lived with him and although I did work he was the main earner.

The relationship didn't turn out to be so lovely though and we broke up after 3 years together.

I would have been very naive to not have any form of financial support for myself because we were going to be together forever and he would support me.

I also would have been completely fucked when we did finally break up!!!!

skaen Sun 23-Jun-13 14:03:05

This has reminded me if a friend if my mum's. she married her childhood sweetheart who earned pots of money. She painted and looked after their four children. It all looked idyllic.

It did become slightly less idyllic when she told mum that her husband beat the crap out of her every night and she was worried he'd kill her but she'd stay because she couldn't support herself.

Not having any ability to earn enough money for you plus DCs to live on is making yourself incredibly vulnerable.

rubyanddiamond Sun 23-Jun-13 14:03:32

If you are planning to go to uni at some point, but not make use of the degree after, then I'd suggest that the benefits of going now are much greater than putting it off! You'll get the whole shared experience of going through uni at the same time as a bunch of your peers, and all the social benefits that brings. If you're smart enough to get into a top university (I assume you are from the grades) then don't underestimate the people you will meet there who will be fantastic contacts for a future writer/painter. Because even creative types need contacts if they are going to do well smile If you put it off for 5 years, you'll be in a completely different place from your fellow students, and the main benefit will be the degree itself because you won't have the same social experience.

velvetspoon Sun 23-Jun-13 14:04:08

My parents raised me to be independent and to ensure I was always able to earn my own money. I never considered relying on a man to support me, not even as a teenager. I knew I would always work, and ensure I had a decent career so I was self supporting. And I always have been. At 40, I now have a large house and 2 children. I was in a relationship, however we split 5 years ago, he pays me nothing (as he has a declared income of under £5k a year) but as I earn enough to support myself and my children it doesn't matter, and also avoids me having to feel in any way beholden or obliged to him.

Frankly I would feel I had failed as a parent if my child's ambition in life was never to work and be entirely financially reliant on their spouse.

it's the WAG mentality and seems to be getting more prevalent. Girls are worth so much more than this and could do so much better.

NotAroundTheEyes Sun 23-Jun-13 14:11:31

You sound like either a) a lazy parisite or b) some kind of retrograde simpering quarter-wit draught out of one of the shit Austen novels

I cannot begin to imagine having so little self respect that I'd cheerily spend my days leaching off whoever is most prepared to pat my head and tell me my watercolours show promise

Bleurgh. Go listen to Beyonce's Independent Women and grow whatever the female equivalent is of 'a pair'.

And FYI I speak as a writer who paints and sings and sews and has been financially supported by another human being for precisely three months of my entire adult life

<MASSIVE RAGE>

NotAroundTheEyes Sun 23-Jun-13 14:12:26

AND I AM SO CROSS I MADE MY FIRST SPELLING MISTAKE IN ABOUT FIVE YEARS angry shock grin

WilsonFrickett Sun 23-Jun-13 14:16:29

Gosh, is this fiftiesnet I've stumbled on to?

Thing is, op will always have her family money to fall back on, so even if her DP burns out, drops out or simply fancies a bit of more intellectual stimulation 10 years down the line, she's never going to be on the breadline, is she?

So if one doesn't have to work for money at any point, what's the incentive to work? The self-esteem and satisfaction most people get out of their work doesn't seem to be soemthing op lacks. So maybe she's better off not taking a university place or a job away from someone who really needs it?

Is she wasting her talent and potential? Well, yes, from where I'm sitting clearly she is. I'm a writer and it's bloody hard work to build a career. But essentially it's her choice to make. It does make me sad, I disagree, the loss of potential makes me weep, but it's her choice.

Money cushions you.

Cherriesarelovely Sun 23-Jun-13 14:19:02

I do understand if your parents are very rigid in their idea of which careers are "respectable". I have a friend whose parents were very concerned with appearances and told him he was only allowed to study law or medicine. He chose law which he hated, he then ended up with a massive mortgage and a family to support and is utterly miserable in his work some 20 years on.

The principle of being able to pay your way though and of having some training that makes you employable is a very important one.

MoominMammasHandbag Sun 23-Jun-13 14:22:24

My daughter would love exactly the life you describe. I myself work part time from home and have a lot of time for my creative thing. And fortunately we are very financially comfortable, so I suppose sees me and my very pleasant life as something to emulate.
Happily, my daughter is passionate enough about her art to want to be the very best she can be, so she will be going to the best art school she can get into and working like a dog, both at her skills and her contacts. I think you are running the risk of remaining a bit of an amateur dabbler OP, is that really all you want?

ImperialBlether Sun 23-Jun-13 14:24:15

It's like the 70s never happened!

gobbin Sun 23-Jun-13 14:25:54

You sound like you're in a position where your plans may well work out, in which case go for it.

Keep the future beyond 25 in mind though and be realistic about your relationship (which is what will be funding your lifestyle). I only know 2 couples who got together in late teens/early twenties who are still together besides me and DH.

It's ALWAYS good to have a Plan B.

Bluecarrot Sun 23-Jun-13 14:27:28

OP, have a read of Tim ferriss 4 hour work week. It's interesting though not for me in its entirety.

Would allow you to travel indefinitely. If successful enough, you could continue to travel with a family in tow too.

NotAroundTheEyes Sun 23-Jun-13 14:29:49

I can't believe people are saying 'go for it' to a life plan which essentially boils down to finding a wealthy man (good luck with that) to marry you at 25 (good luck with that), successfully conceive (after all we all know THAT is a given) and remain married frevernever (good luck with that) shock

Chuffing fucksticks since when was the deployment of a vagina a sensible career plan?!

rainrainandmorerain Sun 23-Jun-13 14:30:14

Do many 19 year olds begin sentences with "I know it's not a very PC thing to say these days...."?

NotAroundTheEyes Sun 23-Jun-13 14:32:01

Haha rain, a good point - and I did note the tremendous ease with which all MNisms are being used hmm

I'm still fuming thoughgrin

amothersplaceisinthewrong Sun 23-Jun-13 14:32:29

Sounds like you might be burnt out having got those 4 A*s and put up with the pressure from your parents.

I think you need to have a gap year travelling and stay right away from the infulences of yoru parents a and extended family and work out what you really want.

Seems a bit unrealistic to never want to work past 25 thought in the modern world.

And Being an SAHM can be EXTREMELY BORING, just like those jobs you have observed.

kelda Sun 23-Jun-13 14:32:58

I understand how you feel.

But I don't recommend it. I think all people should have the ability to be financially self reliant as far as possible. This usually means having qualifications to fall back on if you don't find anyone to support you; or if that person who is supposed to support you and your children, does a runner.

And when you see those lovely, calm marriages, you may not be seeing reality. A lot is hidden within a marriage that is not evident to outsiders. There is nothing fun about being totally financially dependant.

MustWakeUp Sun 23-Jun-13 14:33:54

Because IME it's not, when I mentioned this to my teacher last year she almost went postal on me. Lecturing about the suffragettes and woman's lib and how far the feminist movement had brought women and that we don't have to make marrying a rich man the goal of our lives etc. etc.

kelda Sun 23-Jun-13 14:36:46

oh and those dysfunctional relationships that you read about on the relationships board, where probably exactly like yours when they started out.

amothersplaceisinthewrong Sun 23-Jun-13 14:37:04

Hmmm, I am of the opinion that what the suffragettes etc brought (or should have brought) was choice for women, not being forced into any particular lifestyle.

NotAroundTheEyes Sun 23-Jun-13 14:38:03

Aaaah the famous teenage slang 'went postal' grin

You've been very entertaining. Not a bad effort all round.

rainrainandmorerain Sun 23-Jun-13 14:38:44

notaroundtheeyes yes, I share your fume and ire. It's what gets me dragged into threads that I know are iffy.

GetStuffezd Sun 23-Jun-13 14:39:41

grin NotAround

ImperialBlether Sun 23-Jun-13 14:40:16

The thing is, OP, you need to get your story straight. You came on here with the romantic notion that you would make a living from selling paintings and poetry. Then you said you actual sold paintings and poems, which made me think you were either lying or insane, as nobody would spend much on a painting from someone who is 18/19 with A levels and even poetry competitions offer very low prizes.

Now you're saying you told your teacher you just wanted to marry a rich man. Of course she thought you were a twat. If you'd said you wanted to be a writer or an artist, she would have encouraged you. But no, you just want to live off another person.

ProfYaffle Sun 23-Jun-13 14:40:37

Lolol @ Richman <swats roach>

Goal Sun 23-Jun-13 14:40:52

It's a bit rough to expect your partner to hang around whilst you go off travelling the world. What is your plan if he leaves ou?

Squitten Sun 23-Jun-13 14:43:36

At the end of the day it's your life - do what you want.

But do be realistic about the life that you are choosing. Assuming all is well, you say you want to be a SAHM and do your creative stuff while your DH is out in what sounds like a very hardworking job. You do realise that if he is working such long hours, you will be alone A LOT. You realise that you will have to do almost 100% of the childcare, all the broken nights, all the early morning, every illness, all the running around, the shopping, the cooking, the cleaning? And that's before you even think about children who may have needs beyond the usual.

I have no issue with you not wanting a career right now. I'm 30 and am only now realising what it is I want to do - as a SAHM with (soon to be) 3 kids. But you do sound quite naive to me. You are very happy right now because you can do as you please. BELIEVE ME when I tell you that as the parent of children whose husband is often absent at work, YOU are going to be bottom of the pile. That's not to suggest your DH would be a bad husband, but with the best will in the world he can't do much for you if he's not around.

And none of this is even addressing what happens if your plans don't happen as you wish.

You only get one life and the you should do what makes you happy. But for goodness sake be realistic.

ithaka Sun 23-Jun-13 14:44:48

I think the difference for the OP is the big, comfy cushion of mummy & daddy's money.

It is there in the response to the suggestion of training as a hairdresser & what her mother would think if he came into the salon where she was employed - not, 'oh there is my daughter earning her living doing a respectable job' but rather 'shock, horror, my daughter is working, not servicing a rich husband' - it is all a bit stomach turning, really.

MustWakeUp Sun 23-Jun-13 14:46:29

No, Imperial I told her that I planned to marry my boyfriend and that I wanted to be a SAHM. (she already knows him)

I've sold my paintings yes, that is not unusual in the least, I know plenty of people who were my age and much younger when they sold sculptures/glasswork etc. Not nearly enough to make a living obviously which is why I worked 2 other jobs (bar work + office work)

Dilidali Sun 23-Jun-13 14:47:18

Listen to your mother! If being a SAHM and marrying well was such a grand idea, she wouldn't push you into going to uni and getting a career.

Triumphoveradversity Sun 23-Jun-13 15:00:28

I'm not saying its not ok to be a SAHM but do some stuff first, get a skill set. I am worried I'm channeling a bit of Xenia but your leaving yourself vulnerable op.

hellhasnofurylikeahungrywoman Sun 23-Jun-13 15:06:12

Did the OP say she's never going to Uni? I thought she said not yet. My DD has gone to uni in her 20s and I think she's a better student for it. Had she gone at 18, fresh out of college I don't think she'd have studied half as hard as she is now. She has her head down and is working damned hard at her studies and she is trying to support herself working as a carer to children with complex disabilities. She dropped out after her first year at college and found herself a job, it taught her a lot. She too, has a wonderful boyfriend who is earning more than she is (though nowhere near 6 figures) but the big difference between you and her OP is that she will not depend on him for money while they are both still child-free. He would love to support her but she will not have a bar of it and frankly I think she is very wise in that decision.

Your relationship may well stand the test of time but it always good to know that you have contributed towards your life together. I stayed home while the children were small and helped out with the household costs by childminding or doing weekend work and now my children are grown I am working for me for my sanity and for my pride. I can look at things around our home and think "I did that". We go on holiday together and I know I contributed towards making it happen. When I was younger a university course was not an option for me but if I had my time over again and it was? I'd grab it with both hands.

Moknicker Sun 23-Jun-13 15:12:01

OP - you sound like my mother. Like you she comes from a wealthy family, knew my father from when she was child and married him at 18. She turned down medical school to marry him - however unlike you, she did at least get a degree.

My father did very well and my mum really did live a fab life. Nanny, cleaner, the works. My mum painted (tolerably well), threw good parties, entertained a lot and had three kids. My parents had a great marriage as well. However, at age 47, my father got cancer and died within the space of a year.

We moved back in with my grandfather and had to live off our capital. My mother rued the day she turned down the medical degree and it has taught me that the best laid schemes of mice and men .....

I dont think there is anything wrong with your plan but do at least get a degree for plan B if the need ever arises.

VivaLeBeaver Sun 23-Jun-13 15:18:48

I knew someone who married her childhood sweetheart at 18. She never worked, had no degree. They had kids, he earnt a decent salary.

When they were in their early 30s with 2 fairly small DC he left her for a 20yo.

Ten years on she scrapes by as a cleaner.

Be careful OP. it's never a good idea to rely on someone, they often let you down.

hellhasnofurylikeahungrywoman Sun 23-Jun-13 15:29:18

MustwakeUp Try thinking several years down the line, what would you advise your dd to do if she was in your situation?

Dackyduddles Sun 23-Jun-13 15:31:03

I think it depends what you view as a career. Law for instance? Art is a career you see if you do it long enough. So is prostitution.

I think you're over thinking it all. Earn enough to keep yourself. The rest will work itself out.

motherinferior Sun 23-Jun-13 15:36:44

For heaven's sake, girl, get a few skills and qualifications under your belt - proper ones, not just A levels and a couple of pictures you've flogged - and then make any decisions. You need to be able to earn a living even if you find some bloke prepared to do it for you.

ll31 Sun 23-Jun-13 15:41:51

Tbh,You sound very boring. Id be disappointed if you were my child,not because you've different ambitions than me,,but because you have no drive to be independent and to make your own way. You're happy to depend on others to work to support you. Sad and stupid.

GreyWhites Sun 23-Jun-13 15:52:56

Really you need to be able to support yourself in life, because you do not know what lies ahead of you. Read and think about the experiences of the posters here. Yes, you might have found someone who can support you financially but he might not always be there to do that. And you would be failing your future children if you don't have a back-up plan for supporting them, never mind yourself in your old age. Even if your partner is loaded, pensions are not what they were, and you may not have much entitlement to provision under his pension plans etc.

My partner lost his father very young to a heart attack. Thankfully his mother had her own very successful career and was able to continue to support him and his brothers and sisters. She was very unusual in her generation and lucky that she had worked to get such a good job; another friend of mine grew up in terrible poverty because his dad died when he was young and his mother had no way of supporting herself financially.

It's fair enough that whilst you've had a few months of living the good life, free of cares etc. you think that's how you'd always like your life to be. Who wouldn't? However you need to be realistic and think ahead to find ways of supporting yourself so that you can live with self-respect.

noddyholder Sun 23-Jun-13 15:54:52

There are lots of women who are married with children who aren't financially savvy or independent.

fedupofnamechanging Sun 23-Jun-13 15:57:50

I think it is wrong to rush into university if you are not really ready - you won't get the best out of the experience. Much better to wait until you really want to go and to study something that you feel passionately about. I wish I had waited, because I truly wasn't ready at 18 and didn't do as well as I would have, if I'd been a bit older.

I honestly can't see what is wrong with your life plan - not everyone has burning career ambitions. That said, I do think it is actually quite important to be able to support yourself, even if you choose not to. You can never predict how life will pan out, so for yourself and future children's sake, having a back up plan is the responsible thing to do.

I also don't see that you would be taking advantage of the boyfriend if you marry him and he financially supports you - he will be getting a lovely family life, without having to sacrifice the career that is so important to him. You get financial support - it seems like a fair exchange to me.

Take no notice of scottishmummy - she is a professional sahm hater.

wordfactory Sun 23-Jun-13 16:01:39

OP if you don't want to ever be independent of others, then you can do as you choose.

It's not unreasonable as such, providing others want to support you.

However, please don't expect others to respect you. They won't. Especially, proper artists and writers and poets who will consider it their vocation, and not some little hobby to fit in.

You will find a verty specific peer group who wish to live like you. There are plenty of rich girls who are never financially independent, nor want to be. They sometimes do a little bit of artistic this or that.

Loa Sun 23-Jun-13 16:04:59

I don't think there is much point going to University - if your not interested or going to work.

You can't live your one life to please others - never works.

I went to Uni met DH at 18 and we spent near enough next decade in long distant relationship thanks to getting our education and careers. I still ended up a SAHM with DH working long hours away - and it is hard.

Best friend from Primary met her DH at 18 worked in office jobs for two years and then married him - he came from money her family certainly didn't. They like us are still together but they had all that time together and less stress.

I actually don't regret my choices so far - we are late 30 she doesn't either and it can still go to shit for both us.

I know marriage that have failed under stress of two careers and DC and other that have thrived under same conditions.

Only person who opinion really matters is your future DH - is he happy to wait for DC and/or support your further education and yours - and working out what you really want and not everyone round you.

kim147 Sun 23-Jun-13 16:06:13

There's nothing wrong with not wanting a career as such - but I do think it's important to get skills in a job.

I wasted my 20s. I started on a career in science but I had massively itchy feet. So I did a number of "jobs" that were not focused on career development but used my science skills I had gained. I did too much travelling - enjoyed it but it did fuck up any career I could have got.

I then became a teacher - but I still never wanted the career advances. I just wanted to be a class teacher, do my job and not progress to management because I think there is a balance between work and life.

It is important to have a skill that people want. You don't need a high flying career.

Loa Sun 23-Jun-13 16:07:05

is he happy to wait for DC - or does he want them soon and are you both working on the same time table ?

StuntGirl Sun 23-Jun-13 17:19:03

Gosh I can't imagine having such little self respect.

Viviennemary Sun 23-Jun-13 17:24:51

Imagine if a man came on here and said he wanted to find a high earning woman to support him in his choice of painting and taking it easy. That would be a different story altogether I would imagine.

fedupofnamechanging Sun 23-Jun-13 17:25:50

Why does she lack self respect, just because she would prefer to sah with her dc, rather than have a career?

fedupofnamechanging Sun 23-Jun-13 17:31:35

I think she pointed out her bf wage because people were getting fixated on the fact that as a family they might need her to earn money - I think she was just pointing out that the man she intends to marry is capable of supporting the family financially.

She hasn't said anything about marrying a man purely because he is wealthy - it is a happy coincidence that her bf has a highly paid career. I didn't get the vibe from her that she would only marry him because of this.

She is not lazy and has been working to support the things she wants to do (travel). Lazy would be expecting the bf to bankroll it, even though they are not married/have dc.

There is an implication here that career is the only right way to live and there is something wrong with you if you don't have any burning ambitions in that dept.

IrisScentedCandle Sun 23-Jun-13 17:33:12

Stuntgirl, that's ridiculous. I used to berate myself continually for not having a career, but at that point I still valued myself by how highly others valued me. Society doesn't value raising children, I get that. But I value my own time, happiness, I listen to my own voice now. I would rather be my own boss on a shoestring (which is the situation) than try and work my way up the greasy pole and get really stressed over office politics and so on. I can't imagine anything worse than working 50 hour weeks, for what, for money so that I have a slightly bigger house in a slightly nicer area and drive a slightly nicer car and wear slightly nicer clothes. It's all so pointless to me. I am glad that I have developed a thicker skin now. You may say not wanting a career is a lack of self respect, I think that shows a lack of awareness that people are different from you. You lack theory of mind. You can't fathom what you don't feel yourself.

noddyholder Sun 23-Jun-13 17:33:51

It is just what most people work towards tbh Most of us work and live for a time when we could be financially ok and not need to work so hard. Seriously if you could afford to indulge your passion and not do some humdrum job are you saying you wouldn't? Not everyone enjoys the whole career thing.

gordyslovesheep Sun 23-Jun-13 17:39:34

if everything is so wonderfully perfect OP why does it matter what random interweb strangers think hmm

do what you like - it's not that important to anyone but you - this smells like a massive stealth boast to me

StuntGirl Sun 23-Jun-13 17:41:23

The lack of self respect comes from planning to spend the entire of your life bankrolled by someone else. How little self respect one must have not to even consider being self reliant or independent in any way.

ithaka Sun 23-Jun-13 17:42:30

It does seem pretty feeble to decide at 19 to marry one of mummy & daddy's friends & stay at home with the babies for ever more, rather than going out into the big wide world to discover who and what is out there for you.

StuntGirl Sun 23-Jun-13 17:42:44

Smells quite...bridgey to me gordy

IrisScentedCandle Sun 23-Jun-13 17:42:57

I'd prefer the humdrum job. Most of us walk on auto-pilot towards the top of the greasy pole and it's such a struggle for all but the natural leaders and game players.

But I've had very bad experiences with employers. I've been coerced into resigning which I still regret 20 years later, I've been relocated, made redundant... and this was when I had a career. So, I'm not like the OP, I have decades of bad experience under my belt but I do know that having a career didn't make me happy.

I think you can risk giving your heart and soul to employers and they trash it. You're a commodity, a resource to be plundered. I have been out of the workplace so long now though that what my time is worth to an employer is about 9 euro. Obviously, my time is worth more to me than that. I can't give up an hour of my time (being the mother of two still fairly young children) for 9 euro an hour. Well, I might if I really enjoyed the job and it was part-time in the mornings, but still. I never again want to give myself to an employer, lock stock and barrel. I was crying in psychotherapy about things that happened during my "career". Such bollix the lot of it. Should have stayed working in the jewellers I loved when I was 22 but I was pressured to leave it. I regret that now.

OP, if this is for real... you're very young. Too young to be planning not to support yourself for the rest of your life. OK, so you think this guy is the one, and maybe it will work out - but maybe it won't and what then?

Personally, I think you're scared of taking responsibility for yourself.

nenevomito Sun 23-Jun-13 17:52:41

Nice touch with the preacher. Is it his Son you're going to marry? It's just that I've heard that the only one who could every reach thee, was a son of a preacher man. the only one who could ever teach thee was a son of a preacher man, yes it was, it waaaahhhahaaahaaaaas

trackies Sun 23-Jun-13 18:01:02

Not read whole thread, but please don't waste your potential. By that I don't mean doing something that completely bores you, but find something whereby you can support your family if you need to. at least consider that your Future hubby may not always be abe to support you. Illness, premature death, divorce happen. You may live to regret it. I have friends and family including self who wasted potential and now regret this and have kids and family to support, and are now retraining into these boring professions as they want security for family. Much harder to get job now though as alot older and educating self and looking after kids is v hard work. If you want to be a sahm it's fine but always have a backup plan.

StuntGirl Sun 23-Jun-13 18:02:33

baby grin

enormouse Sun 23-Jun-13 18:19:58

OP I do sympathise with you to some extent. I went to uni at 18, wasn't ready for it, my heart wasn't in it and I dropped out. I worked, had a child and am now back studying for a degree part time (aged 24) and planning on going full time next September. It is extremely hard doing it with a toddler in tow. I also work work part time as my DP is a freelance writer and his income is less reliable. You are putting yourself in an unstable position by relying on your DP to support you. You sound quite immature imo for someone so intelligent.

Also - what if you don't like being a sahm? It wasn't for me.

scottishmummy Sun 23-Jun-13 18:21:02

woman's lib.oh pah nowi know you're talkin out bahookie
no one except indignant of tunbridge wells says women lib
how dare pesky dungarees wearing feminists tell what to do pwincess

marriedinwhiteagain Sun 23-Jun-13 18:36:58

As an uber privileged, middle class woman married to a fab man for 23 years I find your naivety totally fucking mindblowing. Have you any idea how hard even womenn married to successful men have to work to keep up intellectually and socially. Poetry and prose will not sustain you if it all falls apart; neither will it sustain you as your partner and his friends/colleagues become increasingly successful. Being successful and competent in your own right will.

marriedinwhiteagain Sun 23-Jun-13 18:42:22

BTW - I dropped out of uni at 20, went to finishing school and only wanted to be a mummy from about the age of three.

I didn't meet DH until I was 28 having had a disastrous engagement to an investment banker. Thank goodness I was on six figues in my mid 20s and eventually after five pgs and a lot of heart ache produced two DC.

Always wise to have something to fall back on OP.

Xmasbaby11 Sun 23-Jun-13 18:46:19

I don't think this is about wanting a career but rather wanting to be independent. You should always be able to support yourself, IMO, as you never know what life will throw at you. Also for your self respect.

thebody Sun 23-Jun-13 18:50:09

As long as you support yourself and don't sponge of mummy and daddy then do what you like.

You do sound funny though love.

Yeah, when I was nineteen I didn't wnat a career either, so I lived in squats and worked in rough pubs and did lots of incredibly unsavoury things because having a a career was like, so fucking tiresome, man, and I had better things to do.

I grew out of it, not unscathed though.

Knock yerself out.

kim147 Sun 23-Jun-13 18:57:50

I remember working in a lab when I was 21. A friend of mine was a post doc - school, university, PhD and then post doc.

I rebelled against that and went travelling. Meanwhile he got married and brought a dirt cheap house.

Life's what you make it.

ilovesooty Sun 23-Jun-13 18:59:30

Imagine if a man came on here and said he wanted to find a high earning woman to support him in his choice of painting and taking it easy. That would be a different story altogether I would imagine

The word "cocklodger" comes to minI think marriedinwhite makes a sound point too. If you fail to do anything about your own self development I can see him trading you in for a more suitable wife who has nurtured her intellect and whom he hasn't left way behind.

dogrosie Sun 23-Jun-13 19:03:16

notaroundtheeyes YABVVVVVU. There are no 'shit Austen novels'. She is a class novelist. It was a long way up thread but I can't let that go. Have no opinion about what OP does, but don't diss Austen. That is all.

GoshAnneGorilla Sun 23-Jun-13 19:10:20

"Have you any idea how hard women married to successful men have to work to keep up intellectually and socially"

I am dying laughing at the pomposity of this.

See, OP if you're not careful, you'll end up like one of the DH worshippers who lurk round these parts, always taking about their DH,s achievements and money, never their own.

I'd rather be a hairdresser, then one of those sorts any day.

noblegiraffe Sun 23-Jun-13 19:12:15

Future WAG. I can see why your parents are disappointed in you.

Oh yes, "my DH earns..." (apart from when that is the question!)
"my DH thinks..."
"my DH ..."

kim147 Sun 23-Jun-13 19:19:12

I'm sure I can think of a couple of posters who would happily earn a lot more than their male partner who stays at home looking after the kids and doing "mundane childcare and house cleaning work" (to quote that poster)

My DH went to a Russell Group University, I found out the other day.

I'm going to start dropping it into conversation like a prick.

KittensoftPuppydog Sun 23-Jun-13 19:23:14

Agree with Rosie. There are no 'shit' Austen novels. How very dare you.

fedupofnamechanging Sun 23-Jun-13 19:33:08

If we're talking about things up thread which have annoyed us, can I object to the assertion that other poets/painters won't respect the OP?

If she is talented then no one will give a shit that she produces her work while she's at home with her dc.

motherinferior Sun 23-Jun-13 19:38:24

You can't produce proper, sustained work without child care. Otherwise it's just pottering and hobbies.

motherinferior Sun 23-Jun-13 19:40:49

The person who made that assumption is a writer btw. And speaking as a freelance journalist I totally agree.

motherinferior Sun 23-Jun-13 19:41:22

assertion not assumption.

Parsnipcake Sun 23-Jun-13 19:43:16

I was pushed by my parents and became a Dr. I lasted 2 years and now foster, which is basically a professional SAHM. I would live to go to art college, but it's not likely. Although I didn't pursue a medical career, I'm glad I did the training and I think it helps me in everyday life. It also gives me options outside medicine as there are so many skills involved. I think it's fine not to want to devote your life to work, but it's still worth getting good qualifications as it makes you a more rounded person

ChippingInWiredOnCoffee Sun 23-Jun-13 19:46:40

Makes you think doesn't it, troll or not makes you think.

wordfactory Sun 23-Jun-13 19:52:04

karma it was me that made that assertion.

And I am a professional writer. And like all the professional writers I know, I take it hugely seriously. I work very hard at my craft. It's not a hobby.

Every single atrist I know is like this!!!!!

The OP is not for one second talking about take her art seriously. She is talking about travelling and dotting around and having babies. At no point has she said she wants to spend any meaningful time on her craft.

NotAroundTheEyes Sun 23-Jun-13 19:53:28

Dog grin grin

Fair play. Myself: I cannot be doing with Mansfield Park on account of that nimby-wimby namby-pamby Fanny, but I concede your general point!

fedupofnamechanging Sun 23-Jun-13 20:04:13

But word, what is wrong with it being her hobby? If she doesn't have any talent then it won't matter if she writes all day, everyday, as that won't make talented writers respect her. She will be judged on the end result.

She is managing to sell her paintings, which suggests some talent.

Wheresthepopcornagain Sun 23-Jun-13 20:09:07

You seem to have your life so mapped out but unfortunately (or fortunately) OP life is full of surprises. Why not keep your options open? I also don't really think you should look down at people who work in the real world. You may feel differently if you didn't have someone to pay the bills.

wordfactory Sun 23-Jun-13 20:13:05

karma I don't think she will just be judged on the end result.

Artists also judge one another on craft and commitment. Talent is a minuscule part of it. And we don't tend to feel much affiliation with hobbyists. We don't respect one another on our successes, being well aware that that is out of our control and to do with markets etc We respect one another for our dedication to our craft.

wordfactory Sun 23-Jun-13 20:13:46

But not wrong for it to be a hobby. Not wrong at all.

But doesn't make her an artist or a poet!!!

fedupofnamechanging Sun 23-Jun-13 20:29:37

I would think of anyone who produces work that other people consider to be good (and would pay money for), as an artist/poet. It wouldn't make any difference to me whether they worked hard/long hours or whether they did it as a hobby. I wouldn't think of the OP as a full time artist, but she is an artist nonetheless.

I can't quite get my head around the idea that being talented/successful at something isn't quite good enough to deserve the title of artist, because she hasn't struggled or worked especially hard. But then, I am not an artist, so if you say that others in your field wouldn't respect her, then no doubt you are right.

In her shoes, I don't think that would bother me too much, if everything else in my life was as I would want it to be.

amazingmumof6 Sun 23-Jun-13 20:31:49

I hope you can follow your dreams, but you also need money to live.

good education means you'll have choices.
think it through -it is much easier to get a degree etc before you have a family.

hth

fedupofnamechanging Sun 23-Jun-13 20:32:39

I do also think that if she doesn't hone her craft then her success will be limited - that may affect what she chooses to do, career wise, later on.

whois Sun 23-Jun-13 20:35:40

OP you sound very young and naive. Making your way temping and selling paintings from the comfort of mummy and daddy's home with all your stuff kept there? Not exactly 'right on' is it? Find someway to self support completely then tell me money doesn't matter.

wordfactory Sun 23-Jun-13 21:07:42

karma someone might sell some cup cakes at a village fete, but it doesn't make them a great baker, does it?

I wrote my first book for fun. It sold. Loads.

It didn't make me a great writer...

Firsttimemummy33 Sun 23-Jun-13 21:13:07

Sounds like the perfect life - good luck finding a man at 25 who wants to settle down, have dc and is able to support you financially whilst you stay at home being artistic. You're a better woman than me if you manage this!!

Sounds like the perfect life

Only if you're happy being dependent on someone else. I'd really struggle with this actually.

scottishmummy Sun 23-Jun-13 22:35:27

perfect life,funded by prosperous dh?being financially dependent isn't perfect

foreverondiet Sun 23-Jun-13 22:39:22

Not unreasonable but your vision is dependent on finding a high earning DH - do you have a back up plan if this doesn't work out? I have several friends who are artists and enjoy painting / jewellery making etc while kids at school but all have career successful DHs.

snooter Sun 23-Jun-13 22:42:47

If you can support yourself doing something that you enjoy then do it. It's frustrating that your parents seem unable to see things from your perspective. Perhaps they'll come round over time as you show them you can manage & be happy. If not, then it would be a shame, but we can't choose our relations. I think you're really brave, living as you do.

fossil971 Sun 23-Jun-13 22:44:22

sounds like OP you are confusing 'career' with a 'job'

Nothing wrong with not fancying the professional/corporate career ladder although you do seem to have a bit of a stereotype view of it. But be resigned to working in Tesco or something to pay the bills whilst you work your hobbies up into a creative business if that's what you want to do.

Good luck!

fedupofnamechanging Sun 23-Jun-13 22:52:02

word, it does make them a baker though(I can't comment on whether they are a good one or not), just as you were a writer when you published and sold your first book. Imo, anyway.

Kiwiinkits Sun 23-Jun-13 23:54:43

Don't call Economics boring!!!! An insult about economics is up there with insults about Jane Austen!

Economics is the perfect profession for combining mathematics with art. Plenty of opportunities internationally. And better paid than hairdressing. Look into it, OP. University will be boring but the work itself is v. interesting.

WafflyVersatile Sun 23-Jun-13 23:59:35

Most jobs are fairly boring day to day if you do them for any length of time. Including being a SAHM. And you can't guarantee that you will meet someone and settle down and have kids at 25ish.

''Don’t expect anyone else to support you. Maybe you have a trust fund,
maybe you have a wealthy spouse; but you never know when either one
might run out. ''

I'm quoting Baz Luhrman. blush

ShellyBoobs Mon 24-Jun-13 01:12:50

OP, you sound pathetic.

Your mother would 'kill' you if she walked into a hairdresser's and you were there in a uniform working? hmm

Yet, as you can't be arsed to work, free-loading and scrounging your way through life on the back of a non-existent DH's toil is a worthy career?

I think you need to grow up, somewhat.

Mimishimi Mon 24-Jun-13 02:07:38

Hmmm... You're young and idealistic. You've just finished school and of course travelling and having babies sounds like a more romantic option than being cooped up in an uni then office being forced to do something you don't love. My basic advice would be to get the best formal qualifications you can as soon as you can in something that you do love - e.g graphic design, fine arts and plan on being able to pay your own bills in future. That doesn't necessarily mean pursuing a glittering career but you may feel differently about all this when you are in your late thirties wink.

GoshAnneGorilla Mon 24-Jun-13 02:21:55

Kiwi - you might be surprised what hairdressers can earn. It's always funny on Come Dine With Me when the hairdresser the MC social climbers view as chavvy is the one with the big house and sports car.

lisianthus Mon 24-Jun-13 06:07:09

I have a fair amount of sympathy for your mother. You are academic, so she drew your attention to careers that academic people often do. Then you protested and said you wanted to follow your artistic side, so she tried to support you with this and encouraged you to turn your artistic side into a way to support you. But this was all too much like hard work for you. (I'll bet that this was when you "sold" your paintings and that you sold them to friends or colleagues of your parents, btw.)

I'll bet she wouldn't be half as horrified about you doing an honest day's work as a hairdresser as you seem to think. She may just be very alive to the fact that if you spend your life dossing about, always reliant on your current boyfriend, you are putting yourself in a very vulnerable position. No mother wants that for her child.

And I agree with wordfactory. You can be as talented as you like, but if you aren't willing to put in any hard work at it, you'll never be a professional artist. And you will never be as good as you could have been.

Embracethemuffintop Mon 24-Jun-13 06:14:33

I gave up a fancy career in PR, a posh house and plenty of money and swapped it for a more modest life as a homeschooling, SAHM of 4, and my DH is a gardener. Often we can't afford treats for ourselves but we have ever, ever been happier and wish we had done it years ago.

Snooter, brave, really?

snooter Mon 24-Jun-13 07:21:30

Brave because I'd never have the nerve to choose a path that didn't more or less guarantee me a steady income. Quite envious really. I trod the expected path.

fedupofnamechanging Mon 24-Jun-13 07:37:30

She doesn't want to be a professional artist though - she wants to be a sahm who spends some of her time painting.

I really do hate this idea that she will be scrounging off the back of her hard working (future) dh. She will be a sahm - he will get to follow the career he loves (which is no hardship for him) and not have to worry about child care and pulling his weight with the dc, but will still get to enjoy a lovely family life. Seems like a reasonable exchange of skills and interests to me.

Also, she has been honest right from the start about what she wants from her life - there are worse ways to begin a marriage!

Now while I think being able to support oneself is important, most people have jobs so they can pay the bills and enjoy their lives. It's a bonus if you find a job you enjoy and for some people work becomes the thing they enjoy, so it is no sacrifice to go. For others though, if they can pay the bills and enjoy life by working on an ad hoc basis (like the OP - she does work hard, just not consistently) or by matching up in life with one of people who love their career and are happy to support a wife in exchange for an easy family life, then I honestly can't see anything morally wrong in that.

I suspect that the OP's mum would not be happy to see her do any job, but has definite career ambitions for her - nothing wrong with that either. I think the OP does need to get some qualifications in place and develop a back up plan, because sah does make a woman more vulnerable.

I'm really not sure about OP.

Why is a childless 19 year old on mumsnet, discussing staying at home with her not-yet-existent kids?

wordfactory Mon 24-Jun-13 07:55:56

Karma - there is nowt wrong with wanting to be a SAHM who dabbles in painting and poetry. Its akin to SAHMs who enjoy walking their dogs and playing the piano. Very nice indeed. But it is a hobby! The OP was trying to play it as something more than a hobby, without any of the commitment or passion.

Onetwo34 Mon 24-Jun-13 08:27:20

1. It's creepy to marry someone you've known since you were a baby. Nature makes you not fancy people you've known when growing up so that we don't go for our siblings. You'll enjoy sex more with someone else. Less icky.

2. If you love art and writing, why study maths, further maths and physics? What did you love about physics to make you choose to study it? What appeals to your inherently lazy, hippy nature about three hardcore sciences? Think back. Maybe you've had a personality change after a head injury? Worth getting checked out.

3. Nobody describes themselves as flighty and indecisive. Unless with a trilling laugh. I hope you were doing a trilling laugh.

I think your first point is quite rude but I am laughing (trillingly) at your overall post.

karma, I have no problem with women (or men) choosing to SAH. I believe they make a valuable contribution to their overall family life. However, a 19 year old, when asked about her ambitions or future plans, wants to not work and marry someone rich enough to keep her - I find that depressing.

wordfactory Mon 24-Jun-13 08:39:59

I think the OP plays well to the mumsnet gallery. Having a lazy, aimless, passionless DC is like the sum of our collective fears!

MarshaBrady Mon 24-Jun-13 08:48:17

I doubt a 19 year old in this position would give a toss what those mothers on mn thought. But hey, some nice touches.

On hobbies there are indeed loads of women having a nice time painting / drawing and writing poetry whilst their dc are at school. Go for it.

Sorry, haven't read and making my place. But based in the opost, I am the same. No desire for a 'career'. I prefer change every now and then! I trend ro stock with child related jobs though., time for a degree and career later (I'm 24)! I know somebody in her 40's doing a degree in something that didn't interest her unto later in life which I find inspirational smile

ssd Mon 24-Jun-13 09:27:38

huh! where were all the lovely men earning 6 figures when I was 19?

this is a load of nonsense, will probably feature in a daily mail article soon

and wheres Xenia when you need her?

qme Mon 24-Jun-13 09:38:46

I think OP grew in a family with no financial worries
she never had to stand on her 2 feet - moved from parental home to that of her BF

she does what she wants and never had to earn her living

if she thinks that jobs she's mentioned are boring she may find being SAHM boring too - then she will wake up to harsh reality that the only job she can do is that for a minimum wage
she may have time to get her career up if she would be determined

wordfactory Mon 24-Jun-13 09:43:38

One of my biggest fears is that because we are so comfortably off, we are raising DC with no drive or goals...

In fact, I wonder if this thread is started by my 13 year old DD.

Now, what can I do to really wind Mum up?

I know, I'll pretend to be 19 and that I haven't been to uni, haven't pursued my artistic talents, and don't have any plans except to have some babies...grin.

Rosduk Mon 24-Jun-13 09:59:44

I have been with DP for a long time. In our early 20's we both worked which is where we met. He earnt amazing money, we had a DD and I became a stay at home mum. He loved his job but it wasn't long before DP decided he was sick of working long hours, not seeing his daughter and missing her grow up. He decided on a career change which of course I supported but we have changed our lifestyle massively. I am now also working so that we can both work decent hours. Don't take advantage of your DP, he may not want to subsidise you forever!

Pobblewhohasnotoes Mon 24-Jun-13 10:15:17

I like that you think you'll have time to paint and write poems when you've got children...!

It just sounds like you want to float along in life, rely in others and your painting just sounds like a h

Pobblewhohasnotoes Mon 24-Jun-13 10:15:32

*hobby

Stupid phone

hatsybatsy Mon 24-Jun-13 10:22:44

When I was 18, I thought my boyfriend was the one. Luckily, being at university and meeting lots of different people and trying stuff out, I realised he was a disaster and we split up.

University can be an enjopyable event in its own right OP - it's part of growing up, and is much better done when you're studing with your peers rather than going back as a mature student (basically anything over about 21).

If you are genuinely a bright and interested individual, then your lack of desire to experience new things and develop your independence is, frankly, bizarre.

Onetwo34 Mon 24-Jun-13 10:23:18

When you are a sahm, why don't you write a blog about your children and your big house and your hobbies? People love that shit. You'll be making your own six figures in no time at all.

Lioninthesun Mon 24-Jun-13 10:26:02

You need to be very careful when relying on a man/your parents for your livelihood. If you have half of the brains you sate you have you will realise that and prepare and plan accordingly.
Plan for worst case scenarios, not just blithely carry on unthinkingly.

voituredepompier Mon 24-Jun-13 10:29:15

Blimey is his name Christian Grey and does he have a red room of pain?

RubySparks Mon 24-Jun-13 10:34:24

Yes OP what does boyfriend do and is he the same age as you?

WilsonFrickett Mon 24-Jun-13 10:37:15

Onetwo34 grin grin grin

chocoluvva Mon 24-Jun-13 11:17:40

I am so confused as to whether this is a wind up.

stopprocrastinating Mon 24-Jun-13 12:06:27

Not read all posts, but all I ever really wanted to do with my life was be a sahm. I married a wonderful man, and have a lovely dd, but I do have to work part time. Try to find a career you love because sahm might not be achievable, and you might have to work to your 70. So much of your life could be spent working, you'll be happier with an enjoyable job.

LessMissAbs Mon 24-Jun-13 12:19:15

You do want a career though, you just want others to fund it. Tbh if you dont want to establish yourself with conventional qualifications first, its probably a good idea to ensure you are very physically attractive and witty, interesting company able to run a household, and then hang around some wealthy men.

Though unless you go down the footballer/rock star route, you may struggle if you dont work alongside them ir share their hobbies. I do have a friend who married a rock star, but she still works as a nurse, which comes in useful now that his earnings have dried up.

Alternatively, do you have enough talent to make money out of poetry/art? or are there are any unskilled jobs you could do? Otherwise it sounds like a life on benefits for you, as a lot of wealthy men seem to try to marry the beautiful/talented/well educated

I think you have a lot going for you, not least a great attitude to life !

Like you I feel life is more about our experiences than our achievements (especially work related ones)

I think travelling is a wonderful way to spend your twenties, and am glad you're enjoying it so much. The painting sounds great too - you're lucky to have such a natural talent.

However at some point you may feel that developing an interesting and rewarding career/ working life alongside your other experiences and relationships may be a worthwhile aspect of life to develop too

On the whole though I think you're very bright and level headed to be able to see life as you do ! - and slightly differently from the rat-race norm.

We're only here once after all, so seeing what's out there, and then passing on the baton to the next generation are priorities for me too smile

LessMissAbs Mon 24-Jun-13 12:23:21

Meant to add that it sounds as if you have been tutored and inducted so much by your parents that you haven't developed the motivation or skill to work hard off your own back.

Hence I think self funded travelling or an arts course at uni would benefit you.

You need to become independent from your parents.

WilsonFrickett Mon 24-Jun-13 12:23:54

D'ye know, I wasn't really up for the rat race either <ponders>
Leaving home at 17 without a brass farthing to rub together meant I had to join it pretty quickly though. And as a consequence I'd no sooner live off my DH then fly in the air.

Self-reliance is a pretty big baton to pass on, ime.

Pobblewhohasnotoes Mon 24-Jun-13 12:34:51

I think you need to take your rose-tinted specs off OP, having kids is hard work and exhausting.

There's nothing wrong with want

Pobblewhohasnotoes Mon 24-Jun-13 12:36:11

I think you need to take your rose-tinted specs off OP, having kids is hard work and exhausting.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to be a sahm but please don't spend your life being soley dependent on everyone else.

wordfactory Mon 24-Jun-13 12:40:52

Ohblimey, I certainly wasn't ready for the rat race, or indeed any form of responsibility at 19.

That was one of the great things about university. Put off the inevitable for a few years grin...

Plus you could dabble in the arts. I mean you couldn't move for dabblers. Everyone was 'in a band' or 'writing performance poetry.'

LadyInDisguise Mon 24-Jun-13 12:56:49

MustWakeUp
I am sorry but you are crazy. And as your name suggest you really need to wake up.
there is nothing wrong with poetry, being a SAHM or wanting to visit the world.
But you can't make that decision at 20yo, not having a job (not a career, that's different), having never worked in your life and setting yourself up to be completely dependant on your partner.

PLease Please, Don't Do That!!

Have a look at the relationship board and realize hoe many relationships fail. Sometimes because one of the people involve is just a twat. Sometimes because people have just grown apart (something that is more likely when you are young!).
Have a read at what sort of shits happens in people's life. Redundancies (Yes even with a 6 figure income), death, illness (partner's, one of the children etc...) etc etc.
By not working, you are making things much much harder for yourself.

You can be a SAHM later. When you will have worked a bit, learn more about life, be completely sure you are still close with your current boyfriend, even as you will have changed and grown up (as he will have).

You can visit the world when you will have earn the money to do it (Otherwise I assume you want to rely your your bf hard work to be able to make your dreams reality??).

You can be writer and a painter but you also need to know how to be financially independent. At least to know how it feels and what sort of effort is required.

Learn about life, live life, learn about yourself before taking that sort of decision. It's so much easier to step down from having a career to be a SAHM writing poetry than it is to move from 'I have never worked in my life' into 'I need a career to feed myself now'.

Then decide.

musickeepsmesane Mon 24-Jun-13 13:04:32

At no point did the OP say she didn't want to work. She has financed her trips by working. When she runs out of money she comes back and works.
There was a thread today by someone who feels MN ridicules those in low paid work. If this thread is anything to go by low paid work doesn't count at all. Only career work. OP is getting experienced in everyday hard work. Bar work is not a fun hobby.
She is 19 years old. Do you/will you talk to your teenagers like that when they make choices you don't agree with?

noddyholder Mon 24-Jun-13 13:04:44

Tbh most people want what the OP wants in terms of free time and suiting yourself just it comes into the picture further down the road when you have earned it. As long as she is financially independent I say do as you please The same as I say to all women. Some women see a wedding ring as a similar thing tbh and it is vital to have your own money regardless. Otherwise you end up on here in the even of a break up not sure what to do!

noddyholder Mon 24-Jun-13 13:05:33

My ds is 19 he thinks if uni doesn't work out he will just travel and make films wink

ubik Mon 24-Jun-13 13:06:36

I think...

I think you have to choose a path in life there will be checks and balances along the way.

You may look back when you are perhaps 40 and envy friends at the top of their game in a good fulfilling career.

you may have an unhappy marriage but no financial means to leave.

You may feel guilty that you haven't contributed to society in a way someone with your intelligence and good fortune should.

Or you might not. You are very lucky to have these people around to bankroll your lifestyle, I hope you realise that.

qme Mon 24-Jun-13 13:10:12

>>she comes back and works<<
exactly - so she isn't supporting herself whilst living rent free

shewhowines Mon 24-Jun-13 13:16:24

Haven't read op but this is what you want now.Go with it. You will probably change your mind when you are older, and than there will be many years in the "rat race".

If you are lucky enough to still be content with your life and are happy to be a SAHM and live within your means, than stick to your guns and go with your gut instinct. It is your life - not your parents.

I suspect, that at some point, you will desire a more materialistic lifestyle. You can then study etc if you need to.

I wish I'd travelled more and did more exciting things before "i settled down" - even though, compared to many people, I did.

Have fun when you are young. There is plenty of time to be responsible. That is what I will be telling my DC although my worst nighmare is they will meet someone on their travels and live in a different country to me

musickeepsmesane Mon 24-Jun-13 13:22:41

I temp for a 2-3 months and sell a few paintings, then I travel for as long as my money will last, when I run out of cash I come back for another 2-3 months and temp and paint again..

We don't know she lives rent free. She is working and saving. When she runs out of savings she does it all over again. Until she says she doesn't contribute while living with her boyfriend we cannot say she isn't supporting herself. Presumably she supports herself when on her trips. How many of us have 19 year olds that are fully self supporting?

LadyInDisguise Mon 24-Jun-13 13:23:50

noddy yes agree. It would great if we could all have that. But the reality is that it's just a dream for most people. A dream.

It took me some time to realize that we all have and will be facing crap times in our life. That the first few years in a relationship are something different than what you get when you have been married 10 years and have 2 young dcs around. And no financial independence.
That not closing all the doors and keeping some avenues open 'just in case' is about looking after yourself.
If my DH had an accident tomorrow, would |I be able to feed my family? Would I have experience/a job/something that woiuold allow me to do that?
If my DH suddenly changed, if we grew apart, would I be able to leave as I wish or would I feel 'obliged' to stay to ensure a decent life to my dcs (a choice a friend of mine ended up doing as she had hardly worked in her life).
And what will life be in 10 years time, what about in 20 years? Will I be the same, want the same things, will my DH be the same?

There is no way to predict the future but ensuring you have a way to keep you afloat whatever life throws at you is a big step towards a 'good enough' life. That is financially but also emotionally etc...)

qme Mon 24-Jun-13 13:25:05

I assumed she is living rent free as she said she moved in with her BF:

When I'm in the UK I live with my lovely boyfriend of 2 years (I moved in with him after school ended)

sameoldIggi Mon 24-Jun-13 13:26:45

It will be limiting to only be able to have dcs with someone who is willing and able to be the sole wage-earner.

cherryade8 Mon 24-Jun-13 13:31:12

OP you sound quite naive. It's great you have confidence, but if you continue down the path of kept woman you may regret not being independent one day.

What will you do if dh leaves you when you're ten years older, knee deep in nappies and exhausted from childcare? Or he loses his job? Selling paintings and writing poetry is a hobby, it won't pay the bills.

Cherriesarelovely Mon 24-Jun-13 13:46:31

I don't think anyone is criticising the OP for having the lifestyle she does as a 19 year old. They are concerned with her ongoing plans to marry, be a sahm and never really work.

FasterStronger Mon 24-Jun-13 14:03:55

What I would love to do with my life more than anything is travel the world doing odd jobs the way I'm doing now and then settle down at 25ish & have my own family & be a SAHM but still continue with my painting and poetry.

so what does your DP do while you travel?

LessMissAbs Mon 24-Jun-13 14:32:45

It sounds pretty boring and dull OP. To decide that at 19 and to stick to it all your life.

I wanted to ride horses for fun and not work when I was 19, but lacking the funds, trained for a career which enabled me to pay for it. I did actually meet a man who was quite happy to finance it and who became my DH but guess what? I still work, part time, because all those years building up experience mean I can earn a lot for only a few hours. And doing nothing was boring and unfulfilling as feck.

And even if I'd gone into horses, I'd have had to do that full time to make anything of it too. I'm guessing its the same with poetry or painting. just how does a 19 year old poet sell much?

noddyholder Mon 24-Jun-13 14:41:10

I don't think many men think What would I do if things with my wife changed though. Because most men wouldnt dream of handing all the cards to their partner children or no. Too many women once they have children think that way. Men just don't ime.

And now I've read the thread I agree with the others, you need to do something. I aspire to be a SAHM, but am still doing qualifications and things that could earn me money later on just in case things don't go to plan. You need a back up plan (and art may be it).

And who knows what might happen, your DP may not turn out to be so amazing in two or three years time and you'll be left with nothing. Or maybe he will still be about but he'll lose his fortunes, what would you both do then? You may be unable to rely on one salary and feed the kids.

You can always go back to education later too. DP worked until two years ago and then went to uni as he'd had a few years to try other avenues and paths which didn't work out and his degree now is something he never would have done when he was 18!

LessMis: "It sounds pretty boring and dull OP. To decide that at 19 and to stick to it all your life" That's what people with a career do quite often, so she's essentially doing that, just in a different manner. Though I couldn't imagine going head first into being a SAHM without a buffer if things went tits up :/

LessMissAbs Mon 24-Jun-13 14:52:13

Well not really Confused Pixie. Experience and qualifications give you all sorts of options throughout life that never doing regular paid work just doesn't give you.

LemonPeculiarJones Mon 24-Jun-13 15:22:18

You may be supporting yourself now OP, but it's not long since you were living at home, and you fully anticipate being supported by your partner.

Therefore this little bit in between is just an ever so exciting little chapter where you have a lovely time travelling in between swapping one privilege for another.

You're a big baby. And you know it grin

But hey, enjoy yourself, not everyone has such a cosseted life! It's not your fault you're privileged. I won't discriminate wink

PoppettyPing Mon 24-Jun-13 15:29:52

Another hmm here re: the hairdresser comment...
I'm nearly 30 and been a hairdresser for 11 years. It's always paid my bills at the same time as taking me around the world, it's indulged my creativity and social sides, and been incredibly enlightening as you get to know all kinds of interesting people. (I'm also a writer/illustrator and have done a fair amount in those areas as well in addition to supporting myself with a skill.)
I'm just so sick of hairdressing being looked down on and stereotyped as a last resort for "chavvy" (hate that word) girls seemingly bereft of a brain.

Sorry, rant over...I also agree that career ladder-climbing is not for everyone, and we are overly defined as people by our jobs, but for the love of god listen very carefully to all the wise posters on this thread who are telling you life is full of surprises and you should develop a marketable skill in some way or another before popping out les baybays.

musickeepsmesane Mon 24-Jun-13 15:30:08

LessMissAbs I don't understand your post. Are you being all ironic and whatnot?

musickeepsmesane Mon 24-Jun-13 15:32:56

Poppetty I always thought that being a hairdresser was a career. You can be as successful as you want in a job that requires qualifications, skill and experience. Never mind how important it is to get cuts etc right. Wish I had the confidence to do something like that.

LemonPeculiarJones Mon 24-Jun-13 15:37:22

Poppetty don't rise to it! You don't have to justify yourself as a professional and creative person (although I can see why you were aggrieved enough to bother!).

The OP is very immature. Fuck knows what profundities her poetry captures....... grin

chocoluvva Mon 24-Jun-13 15:39:57

As the OP is so bright, the obvious way to get a qualification/entry into a 'good career' is to go to uni. In theory, that would open allow for more choices in later life.

But it costs a small fortune.

Eg, law degree - 3 years then 1 year to get the professional diploma. Then what? An internship for goodness hows long paying nothing?

The really sensible thing would be to get an apprenticeship as a plumber or electrician!!

So she marries her BF and is divorced in ten years with 3 small children? That would obviously be very difficult - but it's not impossible to train when you're a mum - my aunt did a degree and a teaching qualification when she had three little children. I'm sure other people have done the same. It's a risk the OP is willing to take.

It's not like she wants to settle down and have babies straight away. She wants to see the world now while she's young. She's not 'lacking in passion' as another poster said.

PoppettyPing Mon 24-Jun-13 15:46:52

Ha Lemon you're totally right. I'm just feeling a touch cunty preggo-sensitive methinks! I too wonder what profound observations into the human condition OP reveals in her prose...grin

music it's a bloody good career too might I add. thanks for that! smile

LemonPeculiarJones Mon 24-Jun-13 15:55:48

grin

FoxMulder Mon 24-Jun-13 16:09:07

My friends are still doing this (working and travelling) and we're in our 30s now. They seem pretty happy.

LessMiss: True, they may end up doing the same thing but throughout a careeer they probably have chances to do something else.

I never get the pressure to do a degree straight out of school and have a career immediately. I don't think degrees are sensible when you're younger unless you know what you want to do for the forseeable (10+yr) future. I dropped out of my childcare related one in three months as I realised I didn't want to go into the state schooling system, which was what my degree was tailored to (primary education). Many of my peers from school who went to uni have nothing to do with the subject they studied and they've only been out of uni for a couple of years. Given a chance to live a little and realise what you do/don't want to do is very important imo.

Redlocks30 Mon 24-Jun-13 16:18:29

I'd be super impressed if you shacked up with my DS and expected him to support you forever whilst you indulged your hobbies...not!

You sound lazy and indulged. I'm sure most of the population would love to not work and fanny about writing poetry, unfortunately, that doesn't put food on the table. What you're saying is you want a husband to sponge off. You sound like quite a catch.

StickyProblem Mon 24-Jun-13 17:03:28

I've enjoyed the discussion and also the out-and-out bashing the OP has taken for opting out of the sordid rat race by having parents and a partner who are right in the rat race working their bits off. Well said all!! The fact that your boyfriend is a family friend is very Austen, you aren't much of a rebel really OP smile

My 2p worth:

There are all sorts of great careers, both interesting and satisfying, that don't involve law or corporate finance, and also get you paid. Marketing-related stuff is particularly interesting and your creative side would really help.

I would not advise dropping out of education and thus the potential to work too early. The education system, which at your age and stage is very keen to keep you a part of it, won't give much of a crap once you drop out - if you try and get back in when you are older you'll just be one of many who are not that years intake. Don't burn your bridges in the lack of anything specific that's better. You can still drift around travelling in university vacations.

Back in the day when I did a degree we used to whine on about how we were the top 5% of the country blush For your generation, about half will have a degree. Take the opportunity while it's there, you might end up disadvantaging yourself more than you expected.

Lioninthesun Mon 24-Jun-13 17:10:49

I personally think the fact half of the population has a degree is a bit misleading. I opted out of it because I could see people who were not very bright getting degrees and I thought it clearly counted for nothing. However, opting out of uni and choosing to rely on a man or your family instead of working is a problem. Anyone who relies on other people for their own livelihood is a fool. You need to be able to fully survive on your own. Rent, food, utilities and own spending (clothes/makeup whatever). If you can do this and are sure you won't feel a pang of anything when your friends are driving expensive cars or holidaying in some ski resort with their 2.4 kids after earning it themselves, then that is fine. I have no qualms with your idealism, but please make sure you see that it what it is.

VivaLeBeaver Mon 24-Jun-13 17:57:24

I do agree that a degree isn't everything.

Part of me thinks if I could live my life over maybe it would have been nice to be brave enough to have opted out of the rat race and gone travelling/working.

The difference been that I'd have supported myself by casual jobs, bar work. I had skills from a young age such as riding instructor and been able to fix cycles so could have tried to find semi skilled work such as that along side fruit picking, etc.

noddyholder Mon 24-Jun-13 18:02:35

Nowadays degrees really are 2 a penny. Most of my mates grad children who are back home are working in bars etc not one has a 'proper' job even though they mostly have firsts. They aren't bothered either seem a lot less ambitious than years ago. They all wan to travel and work in bars etc and seem non plusher by careers property etc. my ds is about to go and while I am happy for him I can't help feeling its a waste of money

Badvoc Mon 24-Jun-13 18:36:02

Noddy...I agree.
I think "uni" is a concept now...a rite of passage.
Kids seem to have forgotten what it's for

noddyholder Mon 24-Jun-13 19:27:33

Is def not held in the high regard it used to be. Especially by the students themselves. It is as you say a rite of passage the next step in a conveyor belt style education system and a life choice that happens to come after 6th form and/or a year out. A lot of parents who didn't go themselves are blinded by it in some ways and the power it has to secure a good job, n certain subjects it does but most teens I speak to really don't give a fig forint apart from it means 3 years of no work and living with matesetc. I swear listening to ds and co they think they are going on an extended holiday while they decide what to do next. They live for the holidays and seem disinterested in the actual work.my sons closest mate is going as he got the grades and fancies the lifestyle he has 5 a levels top grades but says in truth he wants to be a chef

scottishmummy Mon 24-Jun-13 19:28:56

rat race -as in solvent,in a career,and in secure employment?
growing up and being first in family to go uni I couldn't wait join so called rat race
calling it rat race is something comfy middle classes can do.i see you don't object to dp in rat race,to finance your pottery etc

gettingeasiernow Mon 24-Jun-13 19:34:44

I think it's fine if you are fine with it and not a burden to anyone else. In general though you should ask yourself how you will make a contribution to society in general, if that is important to you? It's an unfashionable question but I don't understand why - surely we should all be making whatever contribution we can to improve the world? Not saying you don't do that, but just that you should be at peace with that question.

Badvoc Mon 24-Jun-13 19:36:11

That's what I mean noddy...surely your sons friend would be better going to Paris or Italy to learn how to cook?
One of my Dhs friends got a 3rd in engineering...he admits freely he partied for 3 years and worked for 2 months.
He is still paying off the loans (and will be for some time) and is now a deputy manager at an aldi.
What on earth was the point?
Tbh I will not be encouraging my dc to go to uni unless they have a definite career in mind. I don't see the point otherwise.

wordfactory Mon 24-Jun-13 19:39:04

Badvoc wasn't it always thus?

When I went in ye olden days, we all loved the freedom. The lack of responsibility (not even a debt hanging over us then) was part of it.

scottishmummy Mon 24-Jun-13 19:42:18

I wanted in.i wanted to a career.ime comfy middle classes can afford to drop out eschew rat race
because bank of mum & dad or prosperous dp who earns well in rat race can maintain housewife
it's privileged to decline participation and /or monies because to do so you have sufficient

musickeepsmesane Mon 24-Jun-13 19:45:38

In the olden days I went to college from 9 til 4, 5 days a week. To learn secretarial (really was the olden days!) I missed the freedom bit
My eldest and his friends went on to Uni/college etc and seemed to do only 2 and a half days a week. I was confused and envy

Oblomov Mon 24-Jun-13 19:46:03

Op's bf is 24 and on 6 figures? Oh right.
I think I was on 6 at 24. £6 per hour that is!!

internationallove985 Mon 24-Jun-13 19:46:51

Well being a mum is a job in itself isn't it after all let's be honest I'll may be flamed for this but foster carers are paid a riduculous amount of money to look after a chil/ren, don't they. xxx

internationallove985 Mon 24-Jun-13 19:47:52

Sorry don't they should have said "Aren't they." xxx

musickeepsmesane Mon 24-Jun-13 19:48:38

ooooooft international I am off for the matches

xylem8 Mon 24-Jun-13 19:49:49

Haven't read all 15 pages, but just wondering how you are planning on supporting this family you are going to have.
Is golddigging marrying a rich man your career ambition?

wordfactory Mon 24-Jun-13 19:50:25

Six figures at 24?

Wow.

I know lots of city boys (law/finance/hedgies) and don't know of any firm offering that amount to a newbie.

Also, does that mean that while he was at univerisity he had a 13/14/15 year old girlfriend? shock.

scottishmummy Mon 24-Jun-13 19:51:28

no.being parent isn't a job,nor is it comparable to being foster carer
foster carer are vetted,have to adhere to criteria,and attend external training
as parent you do own thing to own standards.unlike job that demands adhere to external standard

wordfactory Mon 24-Jun-13 19:52:57

Weeps with laughter at the thought that foster carers are paid 'a ridiculous amount of money'...

chocoluvva Mon 24-Jun-13 19:53:48

And there are plenty of ways of making "to improve the world" that don't involve having a career.

It's not like there's a shortage of lawyers, architects etc. If OP doesn't go down that route someone else will do the job she would have done.

musickeepsmesane Mon 24-Jun-13 19:54:26

some of us havel been a bit suspicious that this was a troll thread. Think you just confirmed it wordfactory. Was interesting though!

noddyholder Mon 24-Jun-13 19:55:53

I think young people now are not as driven by the thought of working hard to get somewhere etc. they are actively looking forthe path of least resistance and an easy route to a life which is as easy as possible. I thinkmthishas all come from the Big Brother/ x factor culture of starting at the top without much hard work to get there. They are deluded but that is how many of them think. Wen I went I assumed like my friends that we would be at an advantage in the workplace ( we were) and that we would leave and seek employment straight away. today they seem happy enough to work in costas go to Glastonbury back to costas then Thailand and so on. Real life is not on the immediate horizon like it was in my day

kerala Mon 24-Jun-13 19:59:50

I dont think this is a gender thing so much as a money thing. I have known a few young people from monied backgrounds who are ahem cushioned and know they will always be ok financially so have never applied themselves or fulfilled their potential. Why do you think Branson and Warren Buffet (I think I have read) are not leaving their kids enough to loaf about on? Our trustafarian pals play at part time IT jobs despite having firsts from Cambridge.

scottishmummy Mon 24-Jun-13 20:00:44

in fairness,pwincess rich types may be looking for a doss at uni
for working class kids,there no bank mum&dad,or dossing and uni is a route in
add recession to that,it's hard at mo to be young grad

wordfactory Mon 24-Jun-13 20:05:43

Where do they live noddy?

scottishmummy Mon 24-Jun-13 20:11:18

I think some of you describing a middle class jolly,and trips to Thailand
upon leaving uni,I worked chosen field on qualifying,people like me didn't go on jolly to Thailand
plenty graduates work hard,they not all drop out,not all work shy either

fabergeegg Mon 24-Jun-13 20:11:46

What I find interesting is that you think that art is something you can pick up and do really well on the strength of an A Level. It's highly unlikely you're a natural genius. If you're happy to be a mediocre artist, working in a bubble (i.e. away from people who could help you develop) and the focus is simply on shifting your work in order to travel, then that's your decision. Though you should think further about this to be absolutely sure there is no angle from which you could be accused of being a 'spoilt rich girl'. The obvious - will you be happy to be serving in a bar when you're 55? You should definitely not assume that some wealthy chap will come out of the wings. I can entirely understand your parents' disappointment in your plans for being 25, as you're making no arrangements for your future that involves doing anything to support yourself. In that sense you do sound entitled and lazy.

But forgetting all that...why don't you want to improve at your art? I have a thing like art that my parents think I should market, and I don't because it's not the right time for it; it would be spoilt. However, there's not wishing to commercialise your art and have it shaped by a market (which is not where you are because you are selling your work for the money). Then, there's thinking that you don't need to do anything resembling hard work when it comes to your art because you can already 'just do it' and there is nothing more to learn. If you're in the second camp, that's arrogant and also not fair to the gift that you have. If you don't care a blind bit about improving, then I can see your parents' disappointment there too. And honestly, you're the one who is drawing your parents' attention to the potential to generate earnings through your art. You can hardly blame them for thinking there would be no harm in becoming more established, if that's how you wish to support yourself. Why should you move the goal posts at that point, as if you have a right to be 'relaxed' all the time? Don't you realise how most of the country is living, through no fault of their own and not by choice?

If you're convinced that university is wrong for you, then fair enough. But it's hard to hear you observe that 'it will always be there' when there are people working night-shifts this evening to fund their education and who are likely to do a lot of good in the world.

You don't come over that well in your OP. You seem to perceive yourself as somehow better than your parents because they are such snobs and so materialistic. But when you look at the life you're claiming you want, you don't seem much better.

Maybe everything's come a bit too easy for you thus far? Maybe you're burnt out from performing and need to detox before returning to grown up responsibilities. If that's the case, just say so. But accept that you probably won't be in a position to have children and a home of your own until later in your life. Those things take work.

noddyholder Mon 24-Jun-13 20:13:08

Live back with parents

MissBetseyTrotwood Mon 24-Jun-13 20:15:07

Get a profession then make your decision.

I'm jobbing in my profession at the moment for a.) my mental health and b.) pension but if I wanted to turn it back into a career the opportunities would exist. I reached a point in my life where work was way more interesting and de stressing than the other options that were open for me.

internationallove985 Mon 24-Jun-13 20:17:41

Yes okay foster carers do a good job, granted. However they are paid a lot of money, and very deservingly I don't doubt.
I know children who are in foster care, their mum was an addict and yes of course the children had to be moved. No argument there! but those same kids are always getting taken on holiday and I'm not talking about camping in Wales but Disney world Florida. The women is now clean which should be aplauded, but her children are in long term foster care. However I'd be lying if said I wasn't somewhat bitter and jealous on behalf of my own child that her children have got everything because she made a mistake. I can't just take my daughter away and I am a hard working single mum.
However on the flip side those poor children are not with their mum, are they, I bet they would give up their holidays to be back with their mum.

I will not post on this thread again as I do not particulary want to start a war and nor do I want to hijack the thread as it doesn't belong to me. However I will be lurking to see if there are times when I have to speak my mind.

musickeepsmesane Mon 24-Jun-13 20:31:23

Those children don't have everything. They don't have their mum. What would your DD choose - disney or you?????????

MorrisZapp Mon 24-Jun-13 20:32:44

That Jarvis Cocker song boils my piss, lyrically. As a tune I love it of course.

Seems to me that if oh so clever and poor Jarvy Boy finds the trustafarian heiress type to be so deeply tedious he can feel free to not shag her.

But let me guess, she was hot as fuck. So get yer leg over my son, then slag her off to your mates and indeed every corduroy wearer and Radio 2 listener who'll have you.

internationallove985 Mon 24-Jun-13 20:35:53

I have to say i agree with you Musickeepsmesane. Of course my D.D would rather have me rather than a fancy holiday but I did state that in my original post. xx

musickeepsmesane Mon 24-Jun-13 20:43:30

It is nice you agree with me. Not sure how much that means when you contradict yourself so well.

noddyholder Mon 24-Jun-13 20:48:49

grin morris

wordfactory Mon 24-Jun-13 20:50:57

shock at noddy's comment that these young people come back home.

Eyes door. Buys new lock!!!

internationallove985 Mon 24-Jun-13 20:51:02

No musickeepsmesane. I don't contradict myself. My original thoughts still stand. I do feel somewhat bitter at times, I'll be honest. Just because I agree with you and I can see things from all sides, that doesn't mean I disagree with myself. I am not going to say "I didn't mean what I said", I wrote it. Must have meant it. xx

wordfactory Mon 24-Jun-13 20:54:23

I also want to say foster carers get paid around £150 a week, which is to cover all living expenses too.

Hardly raking it in, considering how hard a job it is.

scottishmummy Mon 24-Jun-13 20:59:11

I'd have been too affronted to return home after uni.wasn't an option
but then I've never fannied about going on oversea jollys,or gap years
I have limited time for that mc angst.always seems so indulgent

musickeepsmesane Mon 24-Jun-13 21:03:00

Actually wordfactory foster carers can be paid more than that. I am. I don't think international is as random as she seems hmm

I do specialist care and get paid accordingly. I also 'indulge' my children with holidays, toys and lots and lots of care and attention. I also know how much they suffer being away from their families and the levels of support they need. I also know that sometimes I have work 24 hours a day and for 2 years went to bed during schooltime.......
Extreme parenting it is called

Boomba Mon 24-Jun-13 21:04:37

i like your posts a lot scottishmummy

34DD Mon 24-Jun-13 21:22:05

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

chocoluvva Mon 24-Jun-13 21:34:58

34DD - the OP works. She had a job in the day and an evening bar shift apparently.

Spending a lot of money on your child's education won't guarantee that they will then choose to follow the same lifestyle as you.

The OP hasn't said she wants to do nothing. Opting out of a high-powered career doesn't necessarily mean that you're lazy.

34DD Mon 24-Jun-13 21:53:14

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

formicadinosaur Mon 24-Jun-13 22:07:18

I think you shouldn't study for anything unless driven in that area. Yes lots if people take up a career post kids, once they are at school. it is easier to study pre kids though as childcare and home study time isn't an issue. Life is so much more complex when they arrive. Wonderful too.

formicadinosaur Mon 24-Jun-13 22:09:38

Anyway, you only finished your studies last year and do really you are just having an extended gap year

chocoluvva Mon 24-Jun-13 22:20:20

I live off my DH (well, I do a small amount of part-time work). He subsidises me. I do recognise that we're lucky to be able to afford this lifestyle - although things are now getting more and more tight.

My DH and I would rather have less income but more leisure time and less stress than two full-time jobs and the hectic lifestyle that would accompany it.

He benefits from having more time. He's supporting me financially and I'm supporting him by doing almost all of the housework etc. We like this arrangement - I can manage my time the way that suits me, I'm always available for the DC, I don't have a commute to work, don't have the stress of working deadlines etc.

It's old-fashioned, but so what? I'm lucky to have this choice. If DH were to leave me I'd be in trouble, but I'm willing to take the risk.

My only regret is that I didn't travel more when I was at uni. People are advising the OP to be self- sufficient so she doesn't regret her lack of choices/income when she's older. But that works both ways, I wish I'd seen more of the world when I was younger and healthier. You're only young once.

Choosing to have adventures and freedom over a career doesn't make you immoral. It might not work out, but there's a risk with everything we do.

Onetwo34 Mon 24-Jun-13 22:44:15

When I was 21 I had a 27 year old boyfriend earning six figures. I met him on ICQ.
He had nice teeth.

chocoluvva Mon 24-Jun-13 22:46:50

What's ICQ?

encyclogirl Mon 24-Jun-13 22:49:08

What's ICQ?

ilovesooty Mon 24-Jun-13 23:27:10

An instant messaging/chat room thing, I think.

morethanpotatoprints Mon 24-Jun-13 23:39:56

Your post is so refreshing and poetry to the ears.

I am living my dream and consider myself so lucky. It too doesn't have a career, and I have been a sahm for over 20 years. It is been/ and still is a privilege to have so much time with the family.

If you can find a partner with similar aspirations to yours, manage to live on a relatively small income as a high earning "normal" man probably wouldn't be for you. It certainly wasn't for me. If you think in terms of needs and not wants, then you will be happy.
Good luck to you, follow your dream and be confident in your ability. grin

lessonsintightropes Tue 25-Jun-13 00:35:14

mustwakeup I suspect you'll not be back to read this now, but if you do: my DM was just like you. Good academic career, fantastically artistic and talented and from a v. wealthy family. She met her first fiance at 19 who had an excellent job and prospects and was set on the idea of being a SAHM whilst doing her art. However, her fiance had a nervous breakdown and they split up; she married instead my wonderful DF who had a crap job. He worked 60 hours a work doing shifts at the airport whilst she was a SAHM until I was 8 (youngest of four) in a naice but not that naice village.

What I have learned from her experience:

- we had a lovely childhood but
- she wasn't able to do any real work on her art until her youngest was at least 5
- we were incredibly skint and I am still ashamed of wearing sandals to school in the snow because we didn't have enough money to go around (still shudder at the thought of the sacks of potatoes from the farm down the road when we were on yet another economy drive, still can't eat spuds now)
- she needlessly isolated herself from other Mums locally as she thought she was better than they were and to this day is not a particularly socially well-adjusted person... your comment about hairdressing just makes you sound quite snobby and very, very young and inexperienced

Just because your DP is nice now, you might a) meet someone you like more whilst travelling who isn't wealthy b) he might bugger off with another woman or c) it might not work out for another reason.

So I think your ideas are idealistic - my DM has had work hung in the Tate and published design books and novels but never made any money out of it. If she and DF had split up she would have well and truly been in the sh*t, especially as she didn't do any of the household management side of things (she'd been brought up to believe naice ladies didn't bother with that sort of thing - quite a lot of learned helplessness).

I think the idea of travelling and dossing about for a couple of years before Uni/art college sounds great, but don't miss out on your training - don't you want to be the best artist you can be? And to think that your DP will still be waiting for you whilst pursuing your own version of happiness (often abroad) for long periods of time, whilst you know less and less about his day to day life, might need a reality check.

Good luck. I rather think you'll need it.

wordfactory Tue 25-Jun-13 06:42:48

morethan the OP is 19 and has no intentions of furthering either her education or her artistic craft.

She intends to simply marry a rich man (who has very dubious attributes) and have babies.

And this is 'poetry' to you ears!

Have you no internal compass?

*That Jarvis Cocker song boils my piss, lyrically. As a tune I love it of course.

Seems to me that if oh so clever and poor Jarvy Boy finds the trustafarian heiress type to be so deeply tedious he can feel free to not shag her.

But let me guess, she was hot as fuck. So get yer leg over my son, then slag her off to your mates and indeed every corduroy wearer and Radio 2 listener who'll have you.*

Where does he say he shagged her? I've never noticed that in the lyrics.

scottishmummy Tue 25-Jun-13 07:24:52

how pretentious and earnest to dissect a pulp song as if deeply significant
maybe write a socialsciencetastic essay about it?
the juxtaposition of radio2 and your boiled piss

noddyholder Tue 25-Jun-13 07:25:27

Scottishmummy you seem to think there is some sort of superiority in struggle. Tbh I don't think there is much angst and they are not all midde class. Most return home because rents are extortionate. I am quite happy for my ds to live at home post uni if he wants to work and save. My parents were of the throw you out and get on with it school and my siblings and I did but it was miserable.

RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief Tue 25-Jun-13 07:26:26

I think it's the bit where he says

"I want to sleep with the common people
Common people like you
I said "I'll see what I can do'"

Implied rather than stated.

Onetwo34 Tue 25-Jun-13 07:28:46

(ICQ was the first instant messaging thing on the net. I used it to talk to people i knew for free in the library on their computers because I didn't have a mobile or house phone!)

scottishmummy Tue 25-Jun-13 07:30:24

I'm quite simply rebuking that not all grads fanny about on year out / Thailand jolly
I also think some rattling on that grads are lazy not like in their day,well only grads they know
Many other grads work hard and don't live off bank mum&dad or go overseas trips

International you are joking right?! My nan was a foster cater, specialised in new borns addicted to drugs, eg up every hour screaming and crying because they needed a fix and were detoxing. She had a long term older child with severe sen as will. She got less than £200 for the older one to pay for all if her care , clothes, travel to speech therapy, travel to other appointments, specialist development, etc and less than £125 for the baby to pay for all of their care, formula, clothes, nappies, etc. I would not say that by any bloody means than £325 a week was making a fucking killing, especially as that money went to the kids! And the work that went into it!

And FYI, most foster carers aren't allowed to take their foster kids out of the country without explicit permission. They can't even take them on holiday to butlins sometimes as the biological parents turn around at the last minute and change their mind about their child going on holiday.

noddyholder Tue 25-Jun-13 07:38:35

They are not lazy they have firsts. They are not fannying about they work they are just not seeking careers immediately. Thy are not on jollies. You insult at every tun but you sound bitter ad judge and a bit my way or the highway. They seem happy enough. I travelled for years I learned loads and would never swap it for hard grind I have done both and prefer the former. There is no one size fits all.

scottishmummy Tue 25-Jun-13 07:44:22

a grad saving up for next oversea trip to Thailand is markedly different
to someone trying to get established in career. some can afford elongated break after uni,and some can't.some return home after uni some don't.i didn't have the inclination to go on year out or oversea travel

noddyholder Tue 25-Jun-13 07:48:01

Thats fine it's choice. But it's not inferior to work. Hard graft is overrated.

ExcuseTypos Tue 25-Jun-13 07:50:05

Oh dont start dissing the God that is Cocker!

Jarvis may not have written a song about her if she hadnt insulted him with her 'common people like you' line.

scottishmummy Tue 25-Jun-13 07:50:36

I was more than happy to undertake hard grind (as you call it) after uni
I didn't have years travel post- uni ,I had career to build and bills to pay
and yes ime the years out crew were prosperous and had avoidance of what you call hard grind

Oh, and lets not forget the fact that ss have the parents her phone number, so she would have calls at all hours from them too, some quite threatening, trolling her they'd hunt her down and kill her for ' taking' their child.

Anybody who thinks a foster carers job is easy should step in and bloody do it for a week and see how ready it is.

noddyholder Tue 25-Jun-13 07:50:57

Love Jarvis

scottishmummy Tue 25-Jun-13 07:53:25

*hard graft is over rated*,that sounds so pwincessy
yes I expect it is,if one feel done can doss about
and be avoidant of anything perceived as hard graft.still suppose woman can marry well and not graft hard?

FasterStronger Tue 25-Jun-13 07:53:46

mustwakeup I'm a good painter & I write poetry and I've sold a few of my paintings and had some of my poems published

where have your poems been published?

noddyholder Tue 25-Jun-13 07:54:11

Well then you should be happy with your choice and enjoy that rather than criticising those you know nothing about. I fanny around most days now wouldn't work in a ft 9-5 it would be soul destroying to me. I do something artistic and am fine financially independent mortgage free pretty solvent and more important happy.

wordfactory Tue 25-Jun-13 07:54:44

Oh I did lots of travelling in every uni holiday. And then again in gap year (s). I often worked abroad which I think made me very independent and savvy. I didn't have any cushion from home though (no ones fault. My parents were just skint). I would definitely encorage my DC to do the same.

scottishmummy Tue 25-Jun-13 07:56:30

yes do make sure you don't sully yourself with that over rated hard graft stuff
do you pass this onto kids.hey don't over graft kids, it's over rated

noddyholder Tue 25-Jun-13 07:57:05

I am not married never would. Was brought up by strict hard working parent who thought work was the be all. Never appealed. It is not princessy. You sound bitter and joyless. You cannot see the other side of anything sad

ExcuseTypos Tue 25-Jun-13 07:57:47

Scottishmummy it would be really handy of you wrote a "Life's Rules According To SottishMummy" book.

We could all then follow the same path and you wouldn't have to get upset about anyone making their way through life in a different way to you.

It would be rather like China in the 1970s.

kim147 Tue 25-Jun-13 07:58:27

I worked and saved up for a year after uni and then went travelling for 6 months which was great.

I then got into a career but it never felt right to me - I had "something to get out of my system" - I was able to use my skills in a series of locum jobs so was not developing my career or "settling down" but used the money I saved to travel again.

I've discussed this with my counselllor - a part of me loves the fact I did what I did.As people say, you're only young once.

OTOH, a part of me massively regrets not settling down and developing myself / getting a house etc at that age. It does affect your life later on.

There is nothing wrong with not wanting to have a career. But to me, a career implies progressing up the pole of responsibility and work being all important. Having a "job" or using your skills / artistic talent is fine - even if you are well educated. Just because you have a good education does not mean you have to have a career.

noddyholder Tue 25-Jun-13 07:59:54

I tell my son that he has to be self sufficient but that health and happiness are the most important things. I work I have a business. My parents never gave me a penny. But I am so glad I travelled ad will encourage ds to seek happiness. I chose something I loved ad I did ok

noddyholder Tue 25-Jun-13 08:09:10

Btw along the way (1 am 47) I have a degree but more importantly have had 2 transplants ,cancer and in the last 10 yrs diagnosed with congenital heart disease. And I am still going and yes i do think work is over rated but life isn't. smile

scottishmummy Tue 25-Jun-13 08:12:10

and you excuses could write the dont diss the pwincess,or I'll call you a meanie book
for all those who dare share their opinion openly,on a discursive forum
cause you don't want to hear anything other than what you want to hear?

amazingmumof6 Tue 25-Jun-13 08:15:37

I never wanted a career, but went to university.
then I came to England, met someone, fell in love and got married, had 6 kids (so far) and I'm a SAHM..

my degree is useless over here. but luckily it doesn't matter.
I'm happy with my life and my choices.
when the kids grow up I will either put more effort into selling my handmade/ homemade things or get a part time job.

I don't have a career and don't need one. I'll be happy with a job if it happens.

noddyholder Tue 25-Jun-13 08:32:55

You make no sense. You need to sort that.

noddyholder Tue 25-Jun-13 08:36:02

As i have said its choices what works for you. You chose one way it wouldn't work for everyone. I am not a princess far from it!And really your little snide asides in italics sound a bit playground. But you are bitter and sound sad about anyone who is happy with their lot but has chosen a different path. I think its best you ignore me SM as you seem riled by people who are happy smile

noddyholder Tue 25-Jun-13 08:36:55

Also excuses? Excusing what? I am not making any but am happy to be corrected.

ExcuseTypos Tue 25-Jun-13 08:37:17

I don't think I've actually given my opinion on this thread, so I don't know how you come to that conclusion.

Fwiw I have 2 DDs and I've always advised them to aim to be financially independent. I don't however think my way is the only way.

ExcuseTypos Tue 25-Jun-13 08:40:05

Noddy I think Sm was aiming her words of wisdom at me.

noddyholder Tue 25-Jun-13 08:42:37

smile she sounds unhinged. Playing at feminism and getting it wrong. I agree we are all different. Financial independence is key. Then you have choice. I don't think the OP is asking for us to say yes or no to her choices more airing her feelings about not wanting a traditional career. Happiness and health trump everything ime.

FasterStronger Tue 25-Jun-13 08:44:44

noddy - that's the difference: the op does not have financial independence.

she is going from her parents. to her DP.

noddyholder Tue 25-Jun-13 08:48:13

Yes I know but she is 19 and will learn. All the advice here tells her to be independent. I think she comes from a different background to most of us and may have thought a parenting forum could advise her and it has. She has had some good advice but also has been insulted unnecessarily. There is room for everyone and maybe the advice will sink in and she will feel she has more choice.

ExcuseTypos Tue 25-Jun-13 08:48:53

I agree Noddy, things happen in life which put these things into perspective.smile

Faster, the OP is very young and says she may go into further education in the future. I don't think there's any harm in her having a few years working/travelling/ working on her art etc. sounds a lovely life to me.

scraggydoodledo Tue 25-Jun-13 09:11:25

Sorry OP but you sound immature, naive, lazy and just as judgemental as you feel your parents are. I notice that you are not averse to people in 'the rat race', in careers that you describe as 'dead boring', supporting you as you travel and potter around for an undetermined period of time. The optimism of youth is a great thing but you do need to at least consider that your parents, your teachers, friends, etc, who have know you all your life might have a point.
Of course there is nothing wrong with not wanting a career in law, finance, etc but you do need to have a job and some means of supporting yourself. I can totally sympathise with your parents, who have probably put in a lot of effort raising you and educated you at great expense. They can see that you have some academic and artistic talent and have been trying to encourage you to put it to good use. You seem to interpret that as them giving you a hard time and trying to turn something that you do to relax, (you seem to do a lot of that), into a 'money generating passionless thing'. I would interpret it as them encouraging you to gain some experience and qualifications and to hone your potential talent. Most things that are worth doing require hard work and dedication.
You also seem to have a very rose tinted view of being a SAHM. Being a SAHM to a couple of pre schoolers is hard work. Rewarding, yes but tiring and requiring self sacrifice.

Crowler Tue 25-Jun-13 09:11:52

YANBU to want to step out of the rat race and lead a simpler life.

YABU to think that being a SAHM is compatible with your gap-year view on life, if you were actually a SAHM you'd more likely spend your extremely tiny pieces of spare time drinking wine and trying to catch up on EastEnders than painting.

YABU to think any clever man won't see you coming a mile away. Husband hunters give off their own special aroma.

Cherriesarelovely Tue 25-Jun-13 09:12:28

Nothing at all wrong with that aspiration....to be a mum,continue with your art. Just bear in mind it might not turn out like that and being able to support yourself in whatever way might be very important to you later in your life. It may all go exactly as you planned but it might not and having a bit of a plan b is no bad thing.

Cherriesarelovely Tue 25-Jun-13 09:16:47

I agree with Scraggey.

wordfactory Tue 25-Jun-13 09:19:10

I don't think (many) of us would say young people should be in a great hurry to get a degree, or forge a career. 19 is so young. I think what most of us balk at is that she seems to be only planning babies and dependence. If she were living on an estate and planning no work or education, just babies, it might look and taste different.

chrome100 Tue 25-Jun-13 09:22:22

I'm 32. I have 4 A Levels and a first from Oxbridge. However, I have chosen to work in very "easy" jobs (University administration) because it means I can work 830-430 and have a life. I am not too tired to pursue my own hobbies in the evenings and weekends, I have enough money to live on with some to spare and I leave work behind at the office and never take it home.

Yes, I could probably have had some high flying career with my academic background but I just don't want one. I exercise my intellectual side through reading books, learning languages in my spare time and doing evening classes.

I look at my more senios colleagues tearing their hair out with stress, spending their evenings working and their weekends recovering from the week. Despite their large salaries, I would never choose that for myself.

Crowler Tue 25-Jun-13 09:40:08

Ah, I see now the OP has a husband lined up and he's happy with this plan.

I think, OP, circumstances between you and your beau will change a million times before they are settled i.e. a marriage contract has been agreed upon. You are very young.

It's a mistake on the grand scale to go through life not having stretched yourself. I had such fun working in my 20's. It became harder after I had kids; I had to adapt.

You simply haven't found anything you like. Keep looking.

I too am laughing at the posters who say "it's really hard to keep a successful man happy! How dare you assume you can do this easily, I work so hard at it!" This board is overrun with such women.

FasterStronger Tue 25-Jun-13 09:44:17

croweler It's a mistake on the grand scale to go through life not having stretched yourself.

I was just thinking the same thing. to me when posters talk about wanting to avoid the 'rat race', i want to stretch myself.... see what i am capable of.

the alternative would feel to me, like running away from going outside my comfort zone.

kim147 Tue 25-Jun-13 09:47:11

Everyone's different - some people want the challenge of a career and the responsibility that comes with it - to stretch yourself.

Some don't and are perfectly happy to have a job, get paid, come home and have a good work life balance.

Each to their own.

Crowler Tue 25-Jun-13 09:54:30

I agree Kim, but no one can know that that's what they want with any degree of certainty until they've actually stretched themselves.

If you've never done anything uncomfortable or scary, that is a life half-lived.

EstelleGetty Tue 25-Jun-13 10:03:31

I think, meant as kindly as possible, OP, you need to find a balance. You are still so young. And you know what? You come across as confident and optimistic, but I bet you are as exhausted by all your academic success and as unsure as many young people who are just not sure how the next 50 or so years are going to turn out for them. Looking for safety and a life that means you can do something which fulfils you and is financially secure are all perfectly natural.

I'm 27, nearly finished a PhD, exhausted, not sure what to do next and if I won the lottery my first thought would be "brilliant, now I don't have to worry about work." But I know it's not that simple. I know me and DH could get by on his salary. He works in finance and has the potential to earn much more, but I would not want to be financially dependent on him for any long period. I want to be able to go and buy myself something daft if I feel like it, go for a massage or a haircut and I don't feel it would be right to ask him for money for such things, so I need to have my own money. Art materials, as I know and you know, are not cheap and you want to have the best available. You want to be able to fund trips to sell your work.

I think that having a Plan B is important. In any case, I'd recommend you look at art school, if you're financially able. I went to art school for my undergrad degree and it gave me many, many opportunities to travel and see different places. I met incredible people, good friends for life, and there were many moments of excitement and enlightenment that I might never have had elsewhere. It taught me a lot about the art world and industry, how to sell your work and network. But it also taught me that art wasn't for me, because that kind of lifestyle can be incredibly precarious and hand-to-mouth, and I'm not brave or passionate enough to make those sacrifices. That said, I know a few people who do incredibly well from the work they make, but they're in the minority.

Most others continue their practice, but supplement their income with part time work, and it's not easy to find the time to dedicate to your art. A friend's mum makes brilliant work and sells a lot of it, but she has always supplemented her income by being a childminder. Her DH is a recently retired teacher and they're by no means wealthy, but they do alright and are happy with the paths they've chosen.

If you went to art school and remained passionate about your painting, at the very least you'd have a degree which you could follow up with a teaching qualification if you needed more security. Feminism, of course, is about choice and I do often resent the culture in this country especially of your worth being determined by how late you stay at the office and how little you see your partner / children. But I need to strike a balance between having a life that makes me happy and having the funds to pay for it. Good luck, OP, I wish you the best.

curryeater Tue 25-Jun-13 10:11:18

Hi OP, you sound like a very interesting and creative person. Here are my thoughts:

Don't go to university until you know you want to, and what you want to study, as you will be paying for it for ever.

However, don't paint yourself into a corner as far as your earning potential goes. If you have children in your early 20s there is a chance you will never earn enough to work again. Being a sahm is not right for everyone. Read the "has being a parent affected your mental health" thread in Parenting. And don't think "that won't happen to me." You don't know that yet. You sound like a person who appreciates freedom, introspection, a meditative and creative way of life. Being a sahm is the opposite. It can be like working in a factory: dirty, noisy, no time to think or breathe, uncreative, your personal rhythms constantly disrupted and subjugated to the endless conveyor belt of physical tasks.

If you have two pre-school children your childcare bill is going to be around £16k net or £20k of your gross salary. Other costs of working include transport, clothing, etc. If you do not command a salary to make this possible you could hate your life and have no way of changing it.

Your children will not be pre-school for ever but if you did not have a "professional niche" before, it can be hard to get into decent work later.

Every day I thank my lucky stars, or rather my previous self of my late 20s and early 30s, that I put the work in that I can command a salary that gets me out of the house.

If your creative life and your personal freedom are important to you - and they are - this is, counter intuitively, why you absolutely have to make sure that you can protect them with your earning potential. Otherwise, you will die. You will cease to exist as the person you think you are. Honestly.

chocoluvva Tue 25-Jun-13 10:26:13

The OP hopes to have DC at the age of 25 - ie in 6 years. She probably feels that six years is a long stretch of time in which she'll have had lots of adventures and fantastic experiences after which she'll feel ready to have children.

She might change her mind along the way.

But there's a world of difference between having children at 25 and having them straight from school/before you've had a chance to get some experience of life outside school.

kim147 Tue 25-Jun-13 10:31:07

crowler I could have had a career. I got on a graduate training scheme and it could have led to a well paid career in the NHS. But I had no confidence in myself that I could do it and thought I would "be found out " - which is a bad thing when you are in a position of responsibility. I also did not think people would respect / listen to me as I got into a position of responsibility.

I also had such itchy feet and a real sense of wanting to find myself. But I do regret not settling down and developing myself in my 20s. It took me a while to get into my teaching career which I really enjoyed - but fucked up.

Which is why I'm at home now doing this rather than working as I do supply which I hate whilst friends earn far more than me and are more settled and happier.

noddyholder Tue 25-Jun-13 10:37:15

I think career has so many connotations. Because I am fairly free and work for myself I can never really see myself as a career person but I do make a good living etc I just don't and won't allow work to be stressful. My mother still thinks a career is in an office 9-5 and as much over time as you can anything to get away from your children so even though I couldn't earn as much as I do now in a traditional 'job' she still sees it as inferior. My brother works in an office environment albeit in a cool industry he earns a pittance and they are always bailing him out but she still thinks he has a career and I don't! I earn about 4x what he does.

OP is not listening any more if she ever existed in the first place.

curryeater Tue 25-Jun-13 10:44:38

No, but I think this is a useful conversation to have

rosepettel Tue 25-Jun-13 10:46:11

no your not !
your not a baby you can look after your self
mabey the carer is only careing for you but just tell them you dont need them but thenx any way

amazingmumof6 Tue 25-Jun-13 11:57:16

crowler no, is it what Shams do in their spare time? wine and Eastenders?
fuck, and here I was thinking that quilting and upholstering my chairs and making jewellery to sell was a good use of any spare time or worth carving time out for.

shit shit shit <ordering Eastenders box set and plonk on Amazon>

MadonnaKebab Tue 25-Jun-13 12:37:12

They have been a couple for 2 years
The first of which she lived with her parents & studied for 4 A* A levels
And the second she's alternated between working 2 jobs and long stints overseas
They can have hardly spent any time together
But she is sure their relationship will never falter
Best of luck !

BegoniaBampot Tue 25-Jun-13 12:43:12

If the OP s only 19 and probably was in school till 18. How has she really managed to squeeze in all the working to save for all these trips?

FoxMulder Tue 25-Jun-13 12:47:18

I think we're only likely to get one side of the argument on here. The people who are travelling the world probably aren't on mumsnet.

lotsofcheese Tue 25-Jun-13 12:55:04

OP, one of the best bits of advice I was given in life was this: always have a plan B.

You really should not put yourself in a position of being so reliant on someone else.

Of all the couples I know who we're together in their late teens, I don't know a single one out of 8 or so couples who made it to their 30's. People can change quite dramatically from their late teens to late 20's & outgrow each other.

Don't put all your eggs in 1 basket at such a young age.

scraggydoodledo Tue 25-Jun-13 12:56:16

chrome100- with respect, your situation and that of a lot of other posters who have made similar comments is totally different to the OP's. You got a good degree at a good University and then made a considered choice to take a certain type of job rather than a more prestigious but much more stressful one. You had this choice.
The OP will have no choice as she has no experience and no qualifications. When I read he comments of 'Uni will always be there' and 'I will do it when the time is right for me', I see a sub text of 'get off my case mum and dad' and 'you don't understand me'

amazingmum- I think crowler was thinking of mums with small, exhausting children, without time or energy to pursue interesting hobbies, ie challenging the OP's rose tinted view. Enjoy your Eastenders wink

chocoluvva Tue 25-Jun-13 14:35:45

curryeater I've enjoyed this thread too - even if it was intended to stir.

ubik Tue 25-Jun-13 14:39:34

Sigh. to be honest, i am a little jealous of op. it must be lovely to have the financial security to spend time working at Mcjobs and then going on holiday.

I would have loved to do that in my twenties.

amazingmumof6 Tue 25-Jun-13 14:41:07

The people who are travelling the world probably aren't on mumsnet.

fox that made me laugh!

amazingmumof6 Tue 25-Jun-13 14:43:55

scraggy I know, I was kidding!
but I do have small exhausting children as well as bigger exhausting children, no to mention Dh - so stitching keeps me sane. while watching all the hilarious sitcoms on E4 in the evening (and sometimes during the day! sssshush)

chocoluvva Tue 25-Jun-13 16:27:26

I'm envious of my DC's 'school trips' to Eastern Europe and the Far East!

(When I were a lass growing up in a remote area it was a tremendous adventure to go on a train! grin )

GoshlyoHeavens Tue 25-Jun-13 16:36:55

You sound conflicted: you say about the parent stuff but also write about your own achievements. Screw it all, if that's what you want to do, or choose to keep achieving and achieving for the sake of achieving
even if it's in the thing you thought you were screwing them with.

Is there a better word here than 'screw'? I'd like a more feminist alternative.

scottishmummy Tue 25-Jun-13 19:01:54

financial independence is key.yes and op is planning to be financially dependant housewife
so if one does think financial independence is the key,then clearly op plan flawed
I'd advise get a back up plan,make provision to not be dependent upon partner

morethanpotatoprints Tue 25-Jun-13 20:05:27

Didn't the OP say she was good at painting and poetry and planning to do this when her future dc are at school. She could have a great cottage industry, certainly possible enough for her to support her family, if she is not a very materialistic commercial consumer. Some people aren't and can manage on the smallest of incomes. What's to say she won't settle for "The Good Life" and be really satisfied in life.

scottishmummy