To think teacher was harsh on DS?

(66 Posts)
7nth Thu 20-Jun-13 18:49:16

DS's teacher spoke to me today and said she had had to give DS an official warning for his behaviour.

DS and his best friend had been playing in the quiet area, DS's best friend had told him not to talk so loudly and DS told him not to be bossy and that if he was going to be so bossy he might not invite him to his party and that he would tell his teacher he had been bossing him around.

DS's best friend then started crying and told the teacher who came and really told DS off and gave him an official warning, which he has never had before. DS was really crying too and said he wanted his mum & dad, which has also never happened.

I feel the teacher over reacted and that it was a childish squabble, aibu?

Numberlock Thu 20-Jun-13 18:53:23

What does an official warning consist of?

wonderingsoul Thu 20-Jun-13 18:55:44

sounds like your ds was quite mean to him and if you cant see that, then theres no saving you.

he was in the quite area and his friend not to talk so loudly? doesnt warrent the come back he gave his friend.

had his friend had said something equaly as mean or just mean then yeah itd have been a silly squabble and they both should have got a quick talking to. but it was one sided.

exoticfruits Thu 20-Jun-13 18:56:03

I take it that he is very young- sounds like 5yrs or younger.
I would just tell him that if he is breaking the rules he will get into trouble and sometimes it may appear unfair.

wonderingsoul Thu 20-Jun-13 18:57:13

also its a good lessons, there allways a first time a child does get in "deep" trouble and it is a shock.

redskyatnight Thu 20-Jun-13 18:58:34

What is an official warning? If it's like DD's school it's just away of pointing out to you that your behaviour was bad. If you continue to behave well nothing much happens. Seems perfectly reasonable in this situation.

IDontDoIroning Thu 20-Jun-13 18:59:23

If this happened as you described then I'm afraid your ds was very mean in his response to a reasonable request from his friend.
This type of behaviour if repeated is bullying and the teacher was quite right to deal with it as they did.
Hopefully it will make him think twice and in the long run it will be beneficial to him.

thebody Thu 20-Jun-13 19:04:22

Well if he was being loud in the quiet area your lads friend might have been trying to save him getting into trouble.

Sorry your lad was a bit mean and you need to recognise this( but of course they all are).

Equally of course his friends parents might complain to the teacher about your sons behaviour.

Tell your son not to be loud and mean and invite his friend to tea and move on.

tupuedes Thu 20-Jun-13 19:07:04

Its possibly a bit harsh but its not a good sign that you're more concerned with the teachers behaviour than your child's.

xylem8 Thu 20-Jun-13 19:07:49

threatening to tell the teacher, is very controlling ,manipulative behaviour and the teacher was absolutely right to come down hard and nip it in the bud.

Sirzy Thu 20-Jun-13 19:07:54

What your son said upset another child and was mean, of course the teacher should warn him against such behaviour

Arisbottle Thu 20-Jun-13 19:08:37

I was going to post but tupuedes said what I was going to.

SoTiredAgain Thu 20-Jun-13 19:09:01

Are they in nursery or reception by any chance?

I think your DS was a bit over the top and, as I would say, "it is not ok behaviour" to be unkind, especially as the other child was just telling him to be quiet in a quiet area.

Sometimes, children are surprised and upset when a teacher pulls them up on their behaviour.

YABU

BarbarianMum Thu 20-Jun-13 19:09:35

Sounds to me like he got a well deserved telling off. An 'official warning' at school isn't like one at work - they're not going to sack him if it happens again - it's just a way of showing that x behaviour is entirely unacceptable.

His behaviour was unacceptable. He got told off and got upset. Nothing wrong with any of that. Draw a line under it and move on.

Hulababy Thu 20-Jun-13 19:11:24

Your son was mean. He threatened to tell the teacher and threatened to cut him out of the party. They're not nice things to say and the teacher was right to pull him up on those comments.

Had it remained a squabble of "be quiet" followed by "stop being bossy" then fine - both as bad, tell them both to calm down and do the right thing.

But I'm afraid your son followed it up by deliberately trying to threaten and upset the other child. He needed telling he wasn't being nice.

wigglesrock Thu 20-Jun-13 19:12:38

YABU - what your son said was mean and he said it meaning to hurt his friend re the disinvitation. It's a bit of a shock to the system when a teacher has to talk to you re a child's behaviour but it happens, it's done now and hopefully your son won't do it again.

ChippingInWiredOnCoffee Thu 20-Jun-13 19:15:26

The teacher was over the top. Completely unnecessary to be so harsh to small children in the classroom. She could have explained that the other boy was right, that he needed to be quiet in the 'quiet area' and that it's not nice to say 'You can't come to my party'.

Saying you will 'tell the teacher' is normal behaviour for small children and what they are encouraged to do - saying that is bullying is ridiculous.

babyhmummy01 Thu 20-Jun-13 19:15:40

Spends what an official warning equates to but tbh if your son was that mean to his friend then he deserved telling off

BoomChicaBoom Thu 20-Jun-13 19:16:39

I agree with previous comments I'm afraid. As as a teacher of young children myself I would possibly suspect that an official warning may also have been given because maybe that wasn't the first 'offence' or misbehaviour as usually a verbal warning would be given first. Maybe there was a bigger picture and not just that isolated incident?

Also agree the friend wasn't actually doing anything wrong and encouraging your ds to abide by the rules. I'd like him to be in my classroom!

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Thu 20-Jun-13 19:17:11

She stamped on controlling behaviour....your son's that is. YABU. It was fine for your son to tell his mate not to be bossy but not to threaten him with the party.

exoticfruits Thu 20-Jun-13 19:17:29

I think that you ought to just reflect on what happened. There was a rule, the friend reminded him and your DS got annoyed because the friend wanted him to keep it- he responded by being mean. He got into trouble.
He then cried- having made the friend cry. I would be talking to your DS about being mean rather than blaming the teacher.

Blissx Thu 20-Jun-13 19:19:40

ChippingInWiredOnCoffee, i think if you re-read, you will see that what was said was if the OP's DS repeatedly behaved like this in the future, it could be viewed as bullying and therefore the teacher was right to nip it in the bud now, quickly and swiftly.

exoticfruits Thu 20-Jun-13 19:26:48

He must be reception class.

exoticfruits Thu 20-Jun-13 19:27:11

Can't be more than year 1.

queenofthepirates Thu 20-Jun-13 19:27:45

I think you have to hand over the discipline of your LO during school time and provide a united front with the teachers in reinforcing their messages. If the tables were turned and the teacher undermined your discipline, you would be rightly livid.

An official warning definitely makes me think that there had been other poor behaviour from the OP's son previously.

At DS's school they have the traffic light system, with a verbal reminder given before children get moved to Amber. So if I was told there had been an official warning, I would definitely ask what led up to it, assuming that it was more than a simple incident.

OP, you do need to talk to your son about respecting the rules, they are there for a reason. And I agree that his response about disinviting the other child was not very nice at all.

BrianTheMole Thu 20-Jun-13 19:32:27

No I dont think the teacher over reacted. The other boy was trying to stop them both getting into trouble, and your ds's behaviour towards him was unpleasant.

CloudsAndTrees Thu 20-Jun-13 19:38:02

YABU.

What does 'official warning' mean anyway. I tell reception children off quite firmly when they do this 'you can't come to my party' stuff after they have been told repeatedly that we don't say things like that.

The party thing is something all children seem to do, because they know it is meaningful to other children, but they do need to realise its not acceptable. It's not a childish squabble that should be let go. It's meanness that should be stopped by the adults caring for them.

The teacher is highly unlikely to have gone directly to a harsh telling off when nothing has led up to it. You weren't there, you don't see the children together for as much time as the teacher does, you need to trust her. She is probably right.

FamiliesShareGerms Thu 20-Jun-13 19:45:00

Yup, queen. In all but the most extreme circumstances, as a parent you have to support the teachers

cardibach Thu 20-Jun-13 20:13:30

In my school (secondary) an 'official' warning just means a child is told that the behaviour they are exhibiting is unacceptable. It had no further consequences unless the behaviour is repeated - in which case they get a second warning (which comes with a detention) and on further repetition the child is removed, put on report etc.
I expect the same is true in your son's school - it is a common behaviour management strategy. It isn't something to worry about, and you need to support the teacher in pointing out that meanness is not acceptable.

Blissx Thu 20-Jun-13 20:18:34

Is the OP going to respond?

McGeeDiNozzo Fri 21-Jun-13 04:19:33

Yeah, bad behaviour, teacher was in the right. Sorry. I don't usually side with harsh teachers but in this case I don't see what else could have been done.

MidniteScribbler Fri 21-Jun-13 05:16:33

I will not tolerate any of that "you're not coming to my party" malarky in my classroom under circumstances. It is a form of bullying if it is repeated behaviour and targeted to a particular child. If I found out my son had been pulling that trick at school, there would be no party that year.

TheRealFellatio Fri 21-Jun-13 05:21:43

I am not sure what this 'official' warning is all about, but your son sounds as though he was being too noisy/boisterous in the quiet area, and being mean and manipulative towards his best friend.

So YABU.

ll31 Fri 21-Jun-13 07:34:11

It must be so frustrating being a teacher, child mis behaves ,teacher deals effectively with it, and parent ignores what child did, and moans about teachers unfairness. Yabu.

luxemburgerli Fri 21-Jun-13 07:50:28

Sounds ok to me too. I'd make sure your DS knew what he got in trouble for - the party comment, not the "don't be bossy" comment.

exoticfruits Fri 21-Jun-13 07:52:30

It is a learning curve for the small DC- he cries and calls for mum and dad- it is the first time he realises there are different rules and mum can't gallop to the rescue! Equally the first time parent finds that other adults may handle things differently.
Hopefully the DS now knows that he needs to move out of the quiet area to be noisy and that fighting back by excluding from a party is mean behaviour.

TheRealFellatio Fri 21-Jun-13 07:52:36

And the child who was upset/hurt wants to teacher to take action, but when they do they get it in the neck from the wrongdoer's parents! Who'd be a teacher eh? hmm

FanjoForTheMammaries Fri 21-Jun-13 07:53:21

YANBU..I think teacher should just have sat him down and explained about kind behaviour.

TheRealFellatio Fri 21-Jun-13 07:54:34

I am sure she probably did Fanjo, but children have a way of skewing things according to their own perception of their total innocence at all times!

exoticfruits Fri 21-Jun-13 07:56:24

We do not know the back story- you don't get 'official warnings' for the first time a young child gets something wrong!
The teacher must have done 'kind behaviour'- this is June- not start if the year or even start if the term.

exoticfruits Fri 21-Jun-13 07:57:20

Sorry my iPad writes of as if.

FanjoForTheMammaries Fri 21-Jun-13 07:57:45

True..TRF..I hope she did.

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Fri 21-Jun-13 08:31:11

It depends what an 'official warning' means. Varying schools have different systems so I don't know how serious that is.

If it's something like 'if you do that again, you get a time out/etc' then I really think you should be focusing on stamping out that sort of manipulating behaviour in your son, that was quite a mean thing to say because his best mate told him to shoosh.

It's always hard when they first get in trouble... I cried when a friend told me DTD had bit her DS. blush I won't survive Infancy!! grin

DoJo Fri 21-Jun-13 08:34:53

another one who thinks YABU for pretty much all the reasons above.

IDontDoIroning Fri 21-Jun-13 08:43:37

Hm, are we going to hear back from the OP?

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Fri 21-Jun-13 08:47:04

I hope so, this isn't one of those threads where everyone piles in saying 'your child is the next Stewie Griffin,' I think everyone has been pretty gentle about how hard it is for DC/mum the first time they get in 'real' trouble.

soverylucky Fri 21-Jun-13 08:51:17

YABU - your son was talking loudly in the quiet area and his friend tried to get him to be quiet - probably knowing he would get in trouble if he didn't and your son then had a go at this boy.
You have to trust the teachers.
You were not there to witness it.
The other boy probably had a talking to as well.
If you start a thread for something as small as this then I wonder what will happen in future... Is your son learning a lesson that he must do what the teacher tells him to or that you will undermine the authority of the teacher as you see fit?

DowntonTrout Fri 21-Jun-13 08:53:25

My response to this would be "well you shouldn't have been loud in the quiet area and you should not have been so mean to your friend. That is not nice behaviour."

And that is all.

ExcuseTypos Fri 21-Jun-13 08:55:51

How old are they? As there's a quiet area I presume it's Infants? In that case what went on is pretty common.

I work in a year R class and almost ever day someone says 'I'm going to tell the teacher' I've also heard 'if you do/don't do that, you won't be able to come to my party/be my friend" more times than I care to remember.

You have to talk to the child and point out it isn't very nice/how do you think the other child feels etc etc. you don't give them a 'formal warning'.
If this is true, the teacher sounds as if she doesn't have much experience with young children.

arethereanyleftatall Fri 21-Jun-13 09:04:52

A childish squabble, yes, but one which was entirely your own sons fault. A teacher must nip this behaviour (your sons) in the bud, and you must support them.
The fact that you have posted suggests that you are of the opinion your son did nothing wrong, which is in fact not the case.

singinggirl Fri 21-Jun-13 09:15:10

As a former teacher, it doesn't sound like a first offence. Normally you do not tell a parent every time a child is corrected, otherwise you would have a long list for every child every day, and it is just not feasible (had to be reminded to sit quietly, told to not play with another child's hair, stopped a squabble, use a quiet voice etc.) In which case the formal warning could be the one where the parent is informed after multiple similar situations in school.

mrsjay Fri 21-Jun-13 09:17:30

your son was mean to his friend you cant come to my party is mean I am assuming they are only little and your son sounds a wee bit bossy the teacher was probably right to punish him ,

Oblomov Fri 21-Jun-13 09:36:00

OP ?

pianodoodle Fri 21-Jun-13 09:38:46

It would be unreasonable to take this further whether you feel the teacher was harsh or not.

If you were to complain you might get confronted with a list of other behaviour that has led up to this "warning" and would feel silly.

higgle Fri 21-Jun-13 09:42:20

Probably for the best in the long term. DS1 had a bit of a propensity to join in silly behaviour if all his friends did, never an instigator but started following suit when others started things. When he was still in nursery he joined in some silly splashing about of water in the hand washing area and was the only one the teacher caught ( he was still gleefully splashing water about when all the others had twigged and stopped ) I really think that the good telling off he got then shaped his attitudes later, and was a salutary lesson, even if there were a few tears.

mrsjay Fri 21-Jun-13 09:46:17

oh and op he wanted his mum and dad because he was naughty and got told off I really think you have to support school on this or where will it stop every other day you will be Humphing at teachers if he is naughty and you will turn into one of those (not my precious) mothers don't be one of those

CheeryCherry Fri 21-Jun-13 09:51:51

No OP response?

7nth Fri 21-Jun-13 11:30:28

Hi, yes I've slept on it and do think DS was wrong to speak to his friend that way and we've had a long talk about the whole thing. I do think an official warning was quite harsh and it would have been better to sit them down and explain it is unacceptable on DS's part and explain why. There was nothing leading up to the warning, if there had been I would have thought it perfectly reasonable.

Anyway, lesson learned for DS on how important it is to take care of your friends feelings.

WorraLiberty Fri 21-Jun-13 11:33:45

What is an official warning?

How do they work?

cory Fri 21-Jun-13 11:42:00

Seems you are doing the right things, OP.

But do you know for sure that there was nothing leading onto the warning? And do you know that the teacher never had sat down and explained these things?

Ime when children are not very good at providing a backstory. But that doesn't mean there can't be one.

mrsjay Fri 21-Jun-13 11:44:31

Ime when children are not very good at providing a backstory. But that doesn't mean there can't be one.

^ ^ even little children can be cunning and leave out the best bits so it will seem he is being persecuted he maybe had several behaviour warnings

DS is 9, and recently got pushed up on the traffic light system from Green to Red. He told me it was because he'd said Fuck in class. After more questioning, he admitted he'd said it again.

I told him he'd have to learn to live with his embarrassment (he was very embarrassed). I spoke with the teacher the next morning.

Turns out, the word Fuck got him moved to Amber, and apology at that point would have been enough. But he'd actually compounded the problem when told off by coming out with "I don't fucking care" hence the immediate jump to Red. Teacher and I are agreed that embarrassment at being told off in the first place is the reason he'd come out with that statement, but that the punishment still stood (loss of some playtime).

His embarrassment will reduce the chances of it happening again. Seems a new boy in class is a lot freer in using swear words than the others, and DS is easily led. he knows better now.

The point I'm making is that kids will try to minimise what happened if it puts them in a bad light. Saw it with my older DD, too, though at 13 she's more or less out of the habit now.

cory Fri 21-Jun-13 12:01:23

I don't think a child needs to be cunning or manipulative to conceal the backstory: a lot of the time it is simply that they are so taken up with the perceived injustice done to themselves that they forget about the wider picture.

Still remember a friend of mine who went storming into school to complain that her son was being shunned by the other children and that this amounted to bullying. The teacher gently pointed out that the other children's reaction might be something to do with his habit of pushing them over and knocking them down in the playground. He was a big boy and several of the other children were frightened of him. Teacher had been thinking of contacting her but she got in first.

Now I don't for a moment suppose that he was a devious and manipulative boy who had concocted this cunning plan to conceal the truth from his mother. I am quite sure he wasn't. But at the time he got upset enough to spill his worries to his mum, he was thinking about what had upset him, not about how the other children might feel.

mrsjay Fri 21-Jun-13 12:03:03

cory i was being a bit flippant when i said cunning I agree with you self preservation is a normal thing for a child to do

cory Fri 21-Jun-13 12:08:08

and it may not even be self preservation but a childlike failure to put two and two together

like in my friends' ds' case: he genuinely hadn't twigged that there was some kind of causal relationship between pushing little Johnnie over several times last week and little Johnnie running away from him at lunchtime

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