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To think that a teacher should not tell the children to go and have a wee in the churchyard?

(162 Posts)
ThoughtsPlease Wed 19-Jun-13 16:46:06

After lunch the children were rehearsing a play in the church a two minute walk from the school. They did the whole play once, and DD who is 7 waited until they finished to say that she needed the loo. The teacher asked the other children, about 15 in total, if any also needed the loo, about 7 children said they did, and the teacher told them all to go outside in to the churchyard and find a bush to have a wee behind!

DD is not familiar with outdoor weeing, and the result was that she managed to wee on her pants, socks and most importantly to me as they are now in the bin all in her school shoes!

AIBU to think that a member of staff should have taken the children back to school to go to the loo, there were two members of staff in the church.

2cats2many Wed 19-Jun-13 16:54:45

Why are her socks and pants in the bin? Just wash them.

YAbu. You should have taught her how to wee outside. You never know when you're going to get caught short.

hiddenhome Wed 19-Jun-13 16:57:34

Bushes were only ever created for weeing behind grin It wouldn't bother me.

LIZS Wed 19-Jun-13 16:57:36

Is n't it a bit drastic to have thrown everything away - good rinse with antibacterial liquid , dry stuffed with newspaper and polish .

Chocovore Wed 19-Jun-13 16:58:43

Buy her a SheWee?

ThoughtsPlease Wed 19-Jun-13 16:58:52

It's her shoes that are in the bin, not her socks and pants.

Regardless of whether you think that I should have taught her how to wee outside, in this instance they were not caught short there was an available loo to use in the school two minutes away.

OrangeLily Wed 19-Jun-13 16:59:46

Oh for goodness sake you are being ridiculous. Wash her clothes and wipe her shoes. Then teach her how to pee outside for goodness sake.

PeterParkerSays Wed 19-Jun-13 17:00:57

You should be able to bung her shoes in the washer - put each shoe in a pillow case if you're worried.

ThoughtsPlease Wed 19-Jun-13 17:01:40

Really? Ridiculous?

A teaching sending 7 children, ranging from 6 to 11 years, to wee in a churchyard when there are available toilets 2 minutes way?

Justfornowitwilldo Wed 19-Jun-13 17:02:15

I'm sure there's a toilet in the church. The teacher was out of line.

Soldiers used to wee on their boots as urine softens the leather.

TheBirdsFellDownToDingADong Wed 19-Jun-13 17:02:35

Are you always so OCD? <strokes chin>

I never got the hang of weeing outside either, always got my socks and shoes (and sometimes trousers) wet. <shrugs>

LIZS Wed 19-Jun-13 17:02:49

The teacher invited them to go , bet half of them didn't need one ! However one teacher probably couldn't stay with 12 or so , so they'd have taken longer than 2 minutes to finish up get organised and get back to the school. Would she have been able to hold it that long ?

PeterParkerSays Wed 19-Jun-13 17:03:29

I'd be more concerned about a large-ish group of children doing this at once. an odd one, fine, but 7 is asking for trickles of wee to run around the shoes of the person near you.

surely if half the class need the loo, you call a loo break and take them back to school? If an odd one gets caught short, there are bushes available.

ThoughtsPlease Wed 19-Jun-13 17:04:34

Grow up TheBirds, nothing OCD about not wanting wee soaked school shoes. confused

halcyondays Wed 19-Jun-13 17:05:13

If its only two minutes away, couldn't they have waited until they got back to the school, if there wasn't one in the church?

I'm sure her shoes could have been cleaned.

LineRunner Wed 19-Jun-13 17:06:28

Churches have loos. They are at the back of the vestry.

5madthings Wed 19-Jun-13 17:07:22

Put newspaper and bicarb of soda in the shoes it will soak up.the wee and the smell, no need to throw them away!

ThoughtsPlease Wed 19-Jun-13 17:08:11

LIZS yes she would have been fine to go back to school.

There isn't a loo in the church.

Yes I think that they should have been taken back to school, if 7 children said they needed the loo, and this was before it was suggested to you outside, surely it was ok to leave 8 children with 1 member of staff in the church?

LIZS Wed 19-Jun-13 17:08:25

nothing OCD about not wanting wee soaked school shoes so you clean then confused wee is sterile after all ! Had they gone back you may well have had a wet child anyway.

ThoughtsPlease Wed 19-Jun-13 17:08:56

They were going to rehearse the play a second time before going back to school.

LIZS Wed 19-Jun-13 17:11:39

So they hadn't finished ?

littleducks Wed 19-Jun-13 17:12:25

I wouldn't have been impressed. A reception child absolutely desperate and going to wet themselves maybe but in the circumstances described they should have gone back to school

imademarion Wed 19-Jun-13 17:15:15

Is nobody else slightly shocked that a teacher is demonstrating such blatant disrespect for a consecrated area?

Otherwise, yup YABU. Alfresco weeing is a life skill.

valiumredhead Wed 19-Jun-13 17:15:16

I wouldn't have been fussed. At ds's school during games lesson when they are out on the field I know they pie in the hedge because I've seen them when I've driven bygrin

ThoughtsPlease Wed 19-Jun-13 17:15:35

LIZS no they hadn't finished, but had they gone back to the school before rehearsing again, she would not have wet herself on the way or anything.

I always thought that urine was sterile when it first leaves the body, but that bacteria then starts to grow on it, and anyway it smells!

valiumredhead Wed 19-Jun-13 17:15:45

Pee not pie

Maryz Wed 19-Jun-13 17:17:09

Firstly, they would all have had to go back - one teacher can't stay alone in the church with half of them.

Secondly, how come children always need a wee when there isn't one handy? Surely most 7 to 11 year olds can manage an afternoon at school without using a toilet.

Thirdly, YABridiculouslyU to put her shoes in the bin shock. What a waste. Would you also throw them away if she walked in dogshit or spilled sour milk on them? Shoes can be cleaned.

TheCraicDealer Wed 19-Jun-13 17:17:22

The kid who initially asked to go might've been sheer desperados, and there could have been an accident in the church. Imagine explaining that to the vicar.

I imagine it was a great laugh for them all trapsing behind the bushes, they'll remember that for years and smile. Honestly, a wee bit of wee isn't going to hurt, and after throwing the items in the washing machine they'll be fine.

Dominodonkey Wed 19-Jun-13 17:18:14

Yanbu - i would be shocked that the teacher thinks its ok- not because your child wee d on herself but cos the whole thing is unacceptable. I also think it is very disrespectful to wee in a church yard. As another poster said it is one thing if one child is about to wet themselves but another if half the class need to go.

GoofyIsACow Wed 19-Jun-13 17:20:18

YABU IMO can you imagine one teacher marching 7 children back to school, waiting for them to wee/wash their hands walk back, they would miss the entire 2nd run through...

I cannot actually get my head round you binning a perfectly good pair of school shoes though! shock and confused

Dawndonna Wed 19-Jun-13 17:20:54

When my dd needs to go, she needs to go NOW (she has a disability that affects her bladder). She also uses a wheelchair some of the time. We taught her to wee outside for just such an occasion. It really isn't that big a deal. Oh, and she had regular accidents until about twelve, and still does now. Wee washes out, no smell, nothing. The only thing, and it's irrelavant here, is that eventually the sheets will start to rot!

I am a bit on the fence here. Having grown up in the country, and spent ages playing out on the hills, I had to do al fresco wees (and did wee in my wellies more than once blush), so it is not something I think is utterly beyond the pale.

However, I do think that the school should have realised that at least one child was bound to need the loo during the rehearsal time, so should have made arrangements for this that didn't involve a bush in the churchyard. It would have made most sense for one teacher to walk them back to school whilst the other stayed in the church with the remaining children, as the school was so close.

I would also suggest that you retrieve the shoes from the bin and give them a good clean - bicarb etc, as already recommended - school shoes aren't cheap, and we are coming up to the summer holidays - if your dd is anything like my dc, she will grow out of her shoes over the summer, so if you buy new shoes now, you will need to buy another new pair in September. If you have another pair of shoes, then ignore me.

ThoughtsPlease Wed 19-Jun-13 17:22:28

Maryz You really think that most 7-11 year olds could last from straight after lunch, when they will have had probably a big drink on a warm day, for 2 hours or so? I disagree.

It was my DD who asked to go first, she was not desperate desperate, she had sensibly waited until they had rehearsed once, before realising they were rehearsing again and so asked to go to the loo, as she felt she couldn't wait the length of the play again.

LastTangoInDevonshire Wed 19-Jun-13 17:22:52

Try this:

The other day, whilst outside rehearsing a play, 7 children needed a wee. The teacher left the others to take them back to school. Is this unreasonable?

or

The other day, whilst outside rehearsing a play, 7 children needed a week. One teacher took them back to school, leaving the other teacher in charge of too many children. Is this unreasonable?

livinginwonderland Wed 19-Jun-13 17:24:50

If you gotta go, you gotta go! I vividly remember peeing otuside our local Waitrose when I was about seven! The toilets were being fixed and I was desperate so my mum gave me some tissue and sent me behind a bush!

GoofyIsACow Wed 19-Jun-13 17:25:03

lasttango couldn't they have just gone in a bush or something... grin

ThoughtsPlease Wed 19-Jun-13 17:27:18

I am not buying any more shoes now, she will wear some others for the rest of term.

She has had the shoes since last September anyway, they did still fit her but I would have bought her some new ones for September anyway. That is why I am not messing about with washing, soaking stuffing and whatever else.

Perhaps I wasn't clear but my question is AIBU to think that they should not have been told to wee in the churchyard, the school was close enough, not AIBU to throw the shoes in the bin!

ThoughtsPlease Wed 19-Jun-13 17:29:33

LastTango sorry I don't really understand, 1 teacher cannot look after 7 or 8 children is that what you are saying?

TheBirdsFellDownToDingADong Wed 19-Jun-13 17:30:24

And the majority of replies are saying YABU for both.

go on tell me to grow up again

fuzzypicklehead Wed 19-Jun-13 17:34:52

I'd be giving the teachers a piece of my mind, not that I can spare it. Yes, they could have planned it better and even if I don't share the religion, I also find it disrespectful to urinate on someone's sacred space.

It's not the alfresco wee-ing that bothers me, it's the fact that it was done in a churchyard.

ButchCassidy Wed 19-Jun-13 17:35:40

YABU

Wishihadabs Wed 19-Jun-13 17:37:32

YANBU dd nearly 7 wouldn't have been able manage an outside wee by herself without getting in on her and would be mortified. However YABU to chuck her school shoes out !

ThoughtsPlease Wed 19-Jun-13 17:39:17

Oh yes of course, if others disagree with me that children shouldn't be sent for a wee in churchyard when there are toilets 2 minutes away, then I must be a bit OCD?!

Grow up grin

LineRunner Wed 19-Jun-13 17:41:47

If the church didn't have a loo the kids could use, then there should have been a 'comfort break', yes.

It used to hack me off when DD was denied being able to go to the loo at school when she needed to go, especially if she had a UTI or was on her period. I doubt a group of adults would want to be treated like this.

(But I did do a lot of bush weeing in my younger days in the summer holidays, and it is a useful skill!) smile

blackbirdatglanmore Wed 19-Jun-13 17:42:57

I don't think it's appropriate at all confused I wouldn't be bothered about the shoes, I would be very annoyed at my child being taught it was appropriate to urinate in public. Fair enough in an absolute emergency but otherwise - no. I wouldn't have liked it myself at 7 and I can see why the OP is annoyed as her DD must have been really uncomfortable for the afternoon.

Startail Wed 19-Jun-13 17:44:24

YABU half the village had probably peed in our church yard, the lack of a loo is a well known complaint.

imademarion Wed 19-Jun-13 17:47:12

fuzzy - It's not the alfresco wee-ing that bothers me, it's the fact that it was done in a churchyard.

Thank you!

So everyone else here is cool with people's ancestors being slashed on then?

I find it incredibly disrespectful.

Would you piss on other religions' dead too, or is it just a churchyard that's fair game?

valiumredhead Wed 19-Jun-13 18:05:41

I doubt they were wearing on the graveshmm

FannyMcNally Wed 19-Jun-13 18:05:43

They were weeing behind a bush not in an open grave!

valiumredhead Wed 19-Jun-13 18:06:00

Weeing

imademarion Wed 19-Jun-13 18:16:44

On, in or near graves is immaterial, I think.

Where I come from, a churchyard is a sacred resting place for the dead.

I believe that should be respected, be it a tiny rural churchyard or the War Cemetaries worldwide.

I just don't think children (or dogs or anyone) should be encouraged to use them as a toilet.

When these kids grow up and travel, I hope they no longer piss in sacred places. Because I can think of rather a lot if countries where they'd be met with a very different reaction indeed.

LastTangoInDevonshire Wed 19-Jun-13 18:24:31

No - what I am saying is that, if my 2 versions were the alternatives, someone would have moaned.

Of course they can go in a bush. The op is BU in the extreme - especially to throw stuff away.

Dominodonkey Wed 19-Jun-13 18:25:55

I am genuinely amazed at the responses on this thread. The frothers erupt at the thought that a teacher has raised their voice or suggested a child is an idiot but think its perfectly ok for them to all go outside and wet themselves to save a minute or two walk. The teacher was stupid to not to have a plan for students who needed the toilet other than they can just go outside and wee!

valiumredhead Wed 19-Jun-13 18:27:34

Where we used to live there was a huge cemetery where people took dogs for a walk, jogged, there were bouncy castles on open days-lots of weeing in hedges too as there are no loos.

ThoughtsPlease Wed 19-Jun-13 18:29:50

LastTango just to confirm I am not asking if I am BU to throw away the shoes, I am happy with that decision.

I can't see why anyone would have moaned had 1 teacher taken 7 children 2 minutes down a quiet village road, that is a dead end, the church is at the end back to school, while the other teacher stayed with the other 8 children in the church. A church that the school frequent every week and I imagine every single parent at the school has been to so knows where it is etc. That would be unreasonable.

ll31 Wed 19-Jun-13 18:30:38

Yabu, for not teaching your dd how to wee outside and for throwing out shoes, and for being annoyed with teacher.

Maryz Wed 19-Jun-13 18:30:48

Am I really alone in thinking that most 7 to 11 year olds (barring SN) should manage 2 hours without a wee, presuming they were told to go before they left the school.

I'm amazed.

Blimey, I would mention the no weeing in the churchyard rule to all the the dog walkers who wander through there. And the foxes and hedgehogs who also get caught short.

A few children having an outdoor tiddle behind a hedge is not really something to get up in arms about. As someone else said, they weren't weeing in an open grave. Poor teachers - they can't get anything right, it seems.

As for the shoes, you were obviously about to bin them anyway, as you were very hasty about throwing them away immediately. After all, most parents don't mind their own children's urine and would just clean it off.

And if you have ever seen the state of most school loos, you will know that the soles of their shoes are teeming with germs from paddling in loo puddles, even on an average day.

FannyMcNally Wed 19-Jun-13 18:34:16

Exactly maryz. And the '2 minute walk' would be 10/15 minutes at least before they returned. Every minute counts in a primary school timetable! And also the other 8 would be twiddling their thumbs until the others came back.

ThoughtsPlease Wed 19-Jun-13 18:43:03

Maryz they were not told to go before they went to the church, the teacher just came and said we are going now.

Domino yes I too am surprised at the responses. They were in the church for around 2 hours and going for a wee in the churchyard was the only option.

Floggingmolly Wed 19-Jun-13 18:43:15

I actually think half a class of 7 to 11 year old's staging a piss-in in a churchyard is a bit off, sorry hmm.
Alfresco peeing is indeed a useful skill when stuck up a mountain or middle of a desert; but in a churchyard with toilets two minutes away??

halcyondays Wed 19-Jun-13 18:47:12

They should have got them to the toilet before they left the school. I do think peeing in the churchyard was disrespectful and could have been avoided, it's not as though they couldn't have waited. Was there not a toilet in the church they could have used?

tripecity Wed 19-Jun-13 18:48:59

Oh for goodness sake, is this a joke post? Dont you have anything slightly more important to complain about op? No? Lucky you

DawnOfTheDee Wed 19-Jun-13 18:50:57

Also telling the children to go behind a bush will sort out who really wants to go and who just put their hand up to 'join in'....

Chocovore Wed 19-Jun-13 18:51:49

Not sure how easy it would be for one teacher to get 7 children safely/down or across a road on her own or if tht would flout the rules? Don't they need one at the front and one t the back? Is it a country lane with no pavements? I also doubt it would be 2 minutes, tkes tht long tonget the children's attention and just because opyour dughter wasn't desperate, doesn't mean another child wasn't.

EndoplasmicReticulum Wed 19-Jun-13 18:57:07

YABU to throw the shoes away.

Peeing behind a bush is fine, if there is no sensible alternative.

Assuming they were not peeing on the actual graves I don't think it's disrespectful. Our churchyard is full of dog-shit, I think that's worse.

However I don't think the teacher should have encouraged others to go too, I know that my sons for example would have been fine holding it in, but offered the opportunity to pee behind a bush would not be able to resist.....

Viviennemary Wed 19-Jun-13 18:57:36

I think the teacher was out of order sending seven children for a wee when the school was near and there were probably loos in the church. But binning shoes and socks because of a bit of wee. Ridiculous!

ThoughtsPlease Wed 19-Jun-13 18:58:28

tripe sorry didn't realise that you were only allowed to ask for views regarding life threatening issues.

choco thank you that is the sort of question I was trying to think about, there are pavements and the road is a dead end so no through traffic.

Eyesunderarock Wed 19-Jun-13 18:58:31

Well, I'm a dissenter then, and I'm a teacher.
The children should have all gone to the loo before heading off for the practice, but if they really needed to go (I've done loads of practices where younger children than the OP's have managed a couple of hours) then one adult takes 7 back to school, no peeing in the churchyard or anywhere else.
But you over-reacted by throwing her stuff out!
I'd write a letter to the teacher, asking for them to plan ahead a bit better for the next rehearsal and suggesting an additional toilet break with walk in the middle.
It is one of the irritations about constantly hydrated children always sucking on a bottle. They wee a lot.

valiumredhead Wed 19-Jun-13 19:01:41

As someone said earlier 2 mins is more like 15 with kids.

ThoughtsPlease Wed 19-Jun-13 19:04:35

Thank you Eyes I have told my daughter to make sure she asks to go before they go to the church, as it seems it is not being suggested that they go, although I can possibly see a slightly irritated response to the delay in leaving anyway.

Should the situation arise again that she needs the loo, I have also thought about telling her that she should tell the teacher that she needs to go back to school to go the loo rather than outside.

I think that if you have just had lunch and a big drink, it is perfectly normal to perhaps not actually need the loo shortly afterwards, I.e when they left for church, but then need the loo an hour or so later.

Eyesunderarock Wed 19-Jun-13 19:05:06

So, it takes 15 minutes.
These are 7 year olds, if they need a wee they ought to be able to do it properly without soggy socks. If that had been a bunch of 7 adults in a choir practice, would you have expected them to pee behind a bush?

ThoughtsPlease Wed 19-Jun-13 19:06:58

*to go to the loo, I didn't mean 'go the loo'!

valiumredhead Wed 19-Jun-13 19:08:49

An adult is more likely to be able to work out that they need to go before hand and hang on until they walk back if they do need to go. These are kids, kids need the loo frequently even if they have just been half an hour earlier.

One of the biggest adjustments for ds and his mates when going to middle school at 9 was the fact they had to go to they loo in break time and they weren't allowed out during lesson time.

FannyMcNally Wed 19-Jun-13 19:08:58

I've never met a teacher who didn't tell children go to the toilet before a trip. A lot of this is based on what a 7 year old's said. Today within a few minutes a 6 year old in my class said there were 6 children mucking about in the toilets (there were 2), another said the floor was covered in soggy paper towels (a few crumpled ones round the bin) and another said that the HT had told him to put his jumper in Lost Property (hang it on his peg). All sort of true but none would stand up in court grin

Yanbu. The vicar may have been rather offended. If any of our comp age pupils had acted in that manner they would probably have been excluded! Basically weeing in a public place which is illegal??

Eyesunderarock Wed 19-Jun-13 19:11:24

grin That sounds very familliar Fanny.
I too have never left the classroom with children for a session elsewhere without telling everyone to go to the loo. It is a habit that I need to control when not in school.

SummersHere Wed 19-Jun-13 19:11:53

Nothing wrong with weeing outside, did it myself last week and I'm 40 grin.
A lot worse goes on in my local graveyard than kids having a wee.

SugarPasteGreyhound Wed 19-Jun-13 19:12:44

I think urinating in a churchyard is very disrespectful. I wouldn't walk my dogs through there either. They are places which should be respected although people go jogging etc., through them these days so I seem to be in the minority with my view.

People are buried there. How would you feel if you went to pay your respects to a relative and found a group of school kids peeing? It shouldn't come as a huge shock that a group of small children will need the loo at some point in the afternoon. Churches and halls have sanitary facilities.

exoticfruits Wed 19-Jun-13 19:13:42

Last week I was pond dipping with a coach full of DCs. They had a stop at toilets first and were all told to go. If they then needed to go they would have had to go behind a bush. There were no toilets. They were yr 2- they all managed not to go for the hour. They knew in advance it would have been a bush.
That is very silly Eyesunderarock- the adult could go alone-and not worry about ratios.

exoticfruits Wed 19-Jun-13 19:15:02

You are all lucky if you never have to go behind a tree! You obviously never walk all day in the middle of nowhere.

valiumredhead Wed 19-Jun-13 19:16:47

Sugar-I would presume that they were desperate. If a child was weeing where my gran is buried I know she'd just be pleased no one had wet knickers.

boardingschoolbaby Wed 19-Jun-13 19:17:04

Unless they had all gone one staff member could not take them and one stay with the rest. Sadly you have the law to thank for that rule you can't blame the teacher.

CajaDeLaMemoria Wed 19-Jun-13 19:18:30

There would be ratio and child protection queries should one teacher remain alone with 7 children. It may not break rules, but it will almost certainly break guidelines.

The teacher probably weighed up the time used walking everyone home and back and then decided that they should go outside instead.

It absolutely should not have been in a church, but that isn't what you were asking.

Footface Wed 19-Jun-13 19:18:43

Yanbu, good job it was at the end of the day rather than the morning, who wants to be in piss soaked shoes.

Would the teacher have taken a piss outside! I think the answer is no

ThoughtsPlease Wed 19-Jun-13 19:19:37

Fanny I have 2 children involved in this, they were not told to go the the loo, other children also told their parents, who I have asked said that they were not told to go to the loo.

The children range from 6-10/11 years, and some of the older ones needed the loo too.

I believe that the account of what happened is correct.

I know where the church and the school are, and the children have said that they were called to go to the church when they were sat on the carpet straight after lunch, and when they came back to school it was time to go home.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Wed 19-Jun-13 19:20:39

YANBU

I used to allow my DCs to wee in bushes, but not at 7 and not in churchyards.

A teacher should not be encouraging this.

TwinkleSparkleBling Wed 19-Jun-13 19:22:26

I took a group of pupils to a church today and feared this was about me......then I remembered I didn't let any piss outside because it is DISGUSTING.

I cannot believe the amount of people who think it's ok for a group of children to be told to go for a wee outside when there's a loo really nearby.

What does this tell them? Just go for a wee wherever you like?

I am no prude. If you're caught short and there is no alternative, then ok as a one off. However there was a clear alternative and provision in place.

There were 2 adults for the very reason that if there was an emergency/ one had to to go elsewhere, the remaining adult would still be in ratio.

I would also be so annoyed at my child being allowed to go for a wee with a group of other children. Would you do that as an adult? Again the message of what's ok is totally wrong.

I'd be telephoning the school and asking to speak to the teacher about this.

As for the shoes etc, I'd have washed them and kept them!

NotSoNervous Wed 19-Jun-13 19:27:24

Only read the first few posts but I wouldn't be happy either. They should have been taken back to school.

FannyMcNally Wed 19-Jun-13 19:35:38

They wouldn't be within the ratios if one group had more than 6 children under 8.

pianodoodle Wed 19-Jun-13 19:42:08

Were the children upset? That would be my first thought if I was wondering how annoyed I should be about something.

The wee will make leather shoes last for ages, so I've heard - don't throw them out!

DoJo Wed 19-Jun-13 19:48:56

YANBU - really surprised that everyone seems to think that children pissing outside and having to go back to school with wet knickers, socks and shoes is acceptable. Peeing outside isn't a 'life skill' unless you make a habit of spending time where there are no facilities - it certainly isn't something I would expect everyone to teach their children as I would far rather they were taught to use facilities when they are available. I think that for girls especially, it's a big ask at that age!

ThoughtsPlease Wed 19-Jun-13 19:51:13

Yes my DD was upset, she spent from what I can gather about 1-1 1/2 hours in wet pants, the back of her dress was then wet too, wet socks and shoes.

She said she didn't want to tell anyone at school what had happened.

We were going to a swimming lesson for my other DD straight after school so I had to send her back in to school to get her PE kit and trainers to put on.

quoteunquote Wed 19-Jun-13 19:51:47

this is hysterical, thanks OP

How does a child get to seven without knowing how to have a wee, without a loo?

throwing shoes out because they have wee on them, grin but if you really did shame on you for wasting the earths resources sad

and worrying about weeing outside because there is no loo,gringringrin, so funny.

thanks

Well I think it's disrespectful to go weeing in church yards. Don't see why they couldnt have gone back to the school.

Curleyhazel Wed 19-Jun-13 19:55:35

YNBU. The teacher should have anticipated the need for a loo break and planned the lesson / rehearsal session accordingly. Fwiw, I have decades worth of outdoors nature trail weeing experience grin and still occasionally manage to wee on my shoes, trousers or whatever (I know classy) so am not surprised that a 7 year old girl would find this tricky.

Also it's not exactly nice to walk around with wee on your clothes and shoes during a hot summer day, is it? Was loo paper provided? If not then i guess all the girls would have had a bit of a yucky experience and if yes, did they leave the used loo paper in the churchyard?

On a different note, it's not exactly respectful to wee in a churchyard. It sets a bad example. I would request that the teacher plans in a proper toilet break for the next rehearsal. Ynbu at all.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Wed 19-Jun-13 19:56:35

I really doubt the Head Teacher would have been OK with this

shinyrobot Wed 19-Jun-13 20:02:11

I would not be happy with this at all and would be going in for a word tomorrow.

merrymouse Wed 19-Jun-13 20:07:53

I think weeing outside is ok for the odd desperate child, however weeing en mass is a bit disrespectful.

On the other hand if they were all doing it maybe it was less embarrassing for each of them?

Curleyhazel Wed 19-Jun-13 20:08:28

I really don't understand why so many find your op unreasonable. I am definitely no prude, have nothing against an emergency alfresco wee but don't agree with sending seven pupils to wee behind the bushes in a churchyard. That's just poor planning on behalf of the teacher.

pianodoodle Wed 19-Jun-13 20:12:20

Aw I do feel bad if she was wet all day.

I think it's probably a once off though I wouldn't go down the route of phoning the school.

In these sorts of circumstances a sense of humour goes a long way.

I understand people saying that they might have offended the vicar. I agree - it was a missed opportunity but maybe next time ;)

MissAnnersley Wed 19-Jun-13 20:15:13

I would not be happy with this at all.

Yanbu.

I can't imagine ever doing this with a group of children when loos are just two minutes away.

Strange.

crashdoll Wed 19-Jun-13 20:39:03

Not sure why you've got such a hard time. YANBU!
However, YABU for throwing the weed on shoes away, what a waste!

ThoughtsPlease Wed 19-Jun-13 20:41:15

I like the teacher and I like the school, I really don't want to make a great fuss over this.

I think you are right it is probably a one off, so I think that I'll tell her to ensure she asks to go to the loo before they go, not just if they are all told to go. And in the event she needs to go while there, to say that she would like to go back to school not the churchyard.

I would be surprised if they knew that they would be gone for 2 hours though, so she may not have thought about it.

Turniptwirl Wed 19-Jun-13 20:43:36

A lot of churchs don't have toilets

I don't think a teacher should be encouraging kids to wee behind a bush in a church yard 2 mins away from school toilets. I'm surprised there was no plan for what to do in this situation as surely anyone can predict at least one child would need a wee at some point!

Do try and teach her to wee outside though as another time it might actually be the only option

Hasitfallendownagain Wed 19-Jun-13 20:50:29

YANBU at all, I wouldn't have been happy with any of this (though probably wouldn't have binned the shoes).

I know my DD would have been extremely upset if she'd been told to wee behind a bush. I don't think my son would have been happy to do it either, especially in a group of classmates.

poor planning and bad decision on the part of the teacher(s).

Kithulu Wed 19-Jun-13 22:23:34

Well if they went straight after lunch then they would have all used the toilet during their lunch break. Lunch break is when children should use the toilet, not lesson time. On a normal school day a teacher would not expect them to be dashing out of class to wee.

How does your daughter feel about this now though? Has your disgusted reaction put her off alfresco weeing for life??

ThoughtsPlease Wed 19-Jun-13 22:33:47

Who said I had a 'disgusted reaction'?

I don't know whether she went to the loo during lunchtime break, but normally they would at school mid afternoon and there is a break, around the time that she needed the loo, so she would have gone then.

I would think that the children did not know that they were going to the church for 2 hours, maybe the teacher didn't know exactly how long they would be, but she would have had a better idea than the children and should have probably said we may be a while does anyone need the loo before we go. Even so children may well need the loo again anyway depending on how much they have been drinking.

ReallyTired Wed 19-Jun-13 22:37:57

It is not respectful to wee in a church yard. The dead deserve far more respect.

Surely toilet stops need to be better planned with a school outing. Seven year olds should be able to manage without the toilet for two hours if they all go to the toilet before leaving. (Baring special needs)

TimeofChange Wed 19-Jun-13 22:46:39

I went on a school trip as a parent helper 20 odd years ago.
There were no loos, so boys went for a tiddle behind one lot of bushes, girls behind another lot of bushes.

My granddaughters go to Rainbows and weeing alfresco is a skill that they all have to learn for their torchlight walk across fields in the dark.

They had great fun practising in the garden.

I don't expect the spirits in the grave yard mind the tiddles.

Fakebook Wed 19-Jun-13 22:59:27

Haven't read the whole thread, but you threw away shoes because she wee'd in them?
Why can't you wash them and dry them? shoes are made to be waterproof, unless she wee's 5M hydrochloric acid and its eaten through them.

The churchyard thing is another issue. Yes it is disrespectful but shit happens. It's happened now. Tell your dd not to do it again, even if the Teacher suggests it.

bonkersLFDT20 Wed 19-Jun-13 23:09:40

I am all for al fresco weeing, but would never do so in a churchyard or allow my children to. Very disrespectful.

Dawndonna Thu 20-Jun-13 00:03:05

I think this disrespectful stuff strange, the dead are dead, they aren't,t going to worry about it. You could say the same for the pyramids and many other holy sites,the only difference is time.

Valdeeves Thu 20-Jun-13 00:26:36

Funny one this - me personally I'm from the country and have been al fresco peeing all my life ( wouldn't have coped with last pregnancy if I couldn't as my pelvic floor was on the floor) - my son is an absolute pro at it too as we are frequently outdoors and there's no loos etc.

However I am also in the teaching profession and I think it boils down to the fact that she should have prepped the kids and taken them before then built in a loo break in the middle. No need for kids to wee in a church yard ( I agree, not really appropriate)

Not the end of the world that they did though, I honestly wouldn't make fuss - that teacher will be spending hours doing that play with the kids - she'll probably build the set, costume etc - if you complain she'll get into trouble.

Not what you want really is it???

Valdeeves Thu 20-Jun-13 00:27:41

Not when she's probably doing that play in limited time and under pressure? Hence the quick wee break???

exoticfruits Thu 20-Jun-13 06:59:52

I don't think she was suggesting weeing on the graves!!

valiumredhead Thu 20-Jun-13 07:33:59

Interesting point about the pyramids.

ExcuseTypos Thu 20-Jun-13 07:59:01

YANBU.

It's just gross to let a whole group of children pee in a churchyard. I'd be really cross if my children had been told to do this.

I also thought that as some of them were 11, there could very well have been girls having their periods. Not nice to be told to pee outside on that situation.

The teacher should have ensured they were able to go back to the school. If it was only down the lane they could have jogged down there and been back in 5 mins.

I would phone the school and tell them your dd spent all afternoon in wee soaked clothes and shoes.

And people saying 'how come at 7 your dd doesn't know how to pee outside.' What the heck are you on about? Last time I looked there were toilets all over the place. Unless there is a SN, or under the age of 5, the vast majojity of children should be able to wait 5 mins until you get to a loo.

megandraper Thu 20-Jun-13 08:09:10

It's disrespectful to wee in a churchyard IMO. Churches all have loos, don't they? All the ones I've been to have.

Embracethemuffintop Thu 20-Jun-13 08:12:08

I am surprised the kids agreed to it. My kids have always been fine about going to wee behind a bush or in our garden, but I know many kids who would be very upset by it. For that reason I think YANBU because the teacher should know that not all the children would be ok about it.

bonkersLFDT20 Thu 20-Jun-13 10:34:05

Dawndonna I wouldn't wee at the pyramids either!
We bury our dead in church grounds as a mark of respect to their life.

I'd be disgusted if I saw anyone wee in the woodland burial site where both my parents are buried. I go there to have some quiet time to think and remember.

GhoulWithADragonTattoo Thu 20-Jun-13 10:53:09

I think YANBU. If they were at the church all afternoon there should have been proper provision for going to the toilet. Is there a church hall nearby? If so I think the teachers should have arranged access to that to use the loo there. If not then they should have arranged to take everyone back to school for a mid-session loo break.

I don't think 7 year olds should pee in public unless there is no loo nearby; in this case there was one. Potty training toddlers are different but even then I do think a church yard is a disrespectful place to go.

I'm pretty relaxed about al fesco peeing in an emergency or off the beaten track but this situation is different.

Floggingmolly Thu 20-Jun-13 10:58:02

Jesus, it'd be fine to have a slash on the Pyramids because they're older??????

drudgewithagrudge Thu 20-Jun-13 11:05:37

I was sitting outside Salisbury Cathedral a couple of weeks ago and was amazed to see a man casually saunter up to the corner of a stone buttress and have a crafty wee. The cathedral grounds were packed with people everybody pretended it wasn't happening.

I am surprised that any church would not have a toilet. Many of the congregation would be children or elderly and it would be very inconvenient.

xylem8 Thu 20-Jun-13 11:27:52

Oh for goodness sake, the teacher was being pragmatic! I wonder if any of have any idea what the reality of working with large groups of young children is!
2 minutes walk to the school -maybe for a purposeful adult, not for a group of 7 yearolds. By the time they had got there, all had their wees and got back, 15 minutes would have gone. By which time the other 8 would have decided they fancied going back to school for a wee too.
Does the fact that 50% of the group said they needed to go to the toilet (even though they would have certainly been told to go before they set off) not sound a little suspicious! I think me squatting down on a marked grave for a piss is one thing but a 7 yo going behind a bush is completely different.
I have never heard of a church in a small village having a toilet

Dawndonna Thu 20-Jun-13 11:38:00

My point was that there are lavatories at many famous burial sites, bonkers.

Pleasedontpassmeby Thu 20-Jun-13 11:55:46

Agree 100% with bonkersFDT20-whether religious or not, churchyards are where some people go to remember loved ones. I don't think the fact that the children were behind bushes makes any difference-they were still in the churchyard. I fully accept that alfresco urinating happens but do not believe that a teacher should tell pupils to do it.

limitedperiodonly Thu 20-Jun-13 12:06:30

I can answer the pyramid one. I was in Queen Hatshepsut's tomb and a woman leaned against the wall. The tour guide shouted at her that if everyone did that they'd wear it out. I can't imagine what he would have done if she'd have pulled her drawers down and pissed.

YANBU OP. They should have worked in a loo break. And it is is extremely off to piddle in a place of remembrance and worship.

bonkersLFDT20 Thu 20-Jun-13 12:30:08

Dawndonna Oh, sorry. Your point wasn't clear to me.

merrymouse Thu 20-Jun-13 13:57:27

Anyway, I would suspect the teacher has absolutely no intention of doing this again. She was the one who had to spend the rest of the day with a group of children who definitely hadn't washed their hands after the loo, and I suspect she shared in some of the consequences.

thebody Thu 20-Jun-13 14:02:09

Ew no gross. Most reception children say they want a wee when asked. Most arnt desperate.

They could have waited.

babyhmummy01 Thu 20-Jun-13 14:09:03

The teacher was out of order, however there are a couple of things to consider here

1) were the adult to child ratio's covered if 1 member of staff left to take the children back to school - probably not

2) why were there only 2 members of staff with such a large group outside the school premesis

JamieandtheMagicTorch Thu 20-Jun-13 16:23:26

xylem

yes, some of us on here are teachers and TAs

SugarPasteGreyhound Thu 20-Jun-13 20:03:27

To clarify; I'm not bothered about the al fresco peeing. It's the doing it in a churchyard that is the issue.

Churchyards are for the living to mourn and pay their respects to the dead. So whilst those buried there are not concerned about people urinating, those who are visiting the graves of their loved ones might not feel quite so unconcerned.

kinkyfuckery Thu 20-Jun-13 20:23:35

No toileting facilities in the church? I'm guessing the vicar pisses in the churchyeard too then grin

Kithulu Thu 20-Jun-13 22:48:57

Ah now I see it

City dwellers - 'ew toilets always close enough never wee outside'
Country folk - ' yeah, having a wee outside is perfectly normal'

grin

ThoughtsPlease Thu 20-Jun-13 22:51:29

Actually we live in the country.

Kithulu Thu 20-Jun-13 22:54:12

Yeah, I guessed that, but that's why the teacher thought it was OK.

gwenniebee Thu 20-Jun-13 22:56:39

imademarion that was my thought, too. No-one, no matter what age, should be weeing in a graveyard. So, on that basis, OP - YANBU.

ThoughtsPlease Thu 20-Jun-13 22:56:41

No I think they just thought going back to school was too much hassle.

DoJo Fri 21-Jun-13 00:09:10

I live in the country too...

ExcuseTypos Fri 21-Jun-13 07:48:16

So do I and my Dc have never been told to just pee behind a bush!

ExcuseTypos Fri 21-Jun-13 07:48:53

And there are a lot of bushes round here and not many toilets!

Iheartcustardcreams Fri 21-Jun-13 07:56:29

I am surprised by how many people think YABU! I totally agree with you, they should have been taken to the toilet! But I have been told I have some issues with public toilets/ weeing outside. I always have a potty with me fir my preschool DCs. I would be shocked if they told me their teacher had allowed them to wee outside when there was a toilet nearby and I have boys! Op Yanbu!

SugarPasteGreyhound Fri 21-Jun-13 08:41:23

I grew up in the country - rural as in there was a bus from the nearest village (3 miles away) twice a week. Nearest supermarket was an hour's drive away. Needless to say there weren't any handy public conveniences around. I have had to nip behind a bush many times, but still managed to avoid urinating in a churchyard.

Branleuse Fri 21-Jun-13 08:46:48

id have suggested the bush too.

LittleBearPad Fri 21-Jun-13 09:01:20

Thoughtsplease you need to teach your daughter to wee outside.

I think the churchyard bit is worse than teachers asking their pupils to wee outside.

The shoes bit is ridiculous.

SirChenjin Fri 21-Jun-13 09:06:42

The world is covered in human wee - it's no big deal. Far better to break briefly, wee, get back on with the rehearsal than to stop, walk 7 children back up the road (willing to bet it would take 7 children longer than 2 minutes), faff about while they all went to the loo and washed hands, then traipsed back to the church.

As for binning a perfectly good pair of shoes hmm

ThoughtsPlease Fri 21-Jun-13 09:15:45

I have explained that she had worn the shoes since September and I would not describe that as 'perfectly good', they would have been replaced in September anyway.

I did not want to fiddle about with cleaning and drying etc, they were very wet and already smelt bad.

Without an adult to help you I would imagine most young children would end up weeing on themselves, I have no idea whether the other children managed it without getting wet, I expect that they all didn't either.

ThoughtsPlease Fri 21-Jun-13 09:18:47

And really you don't use the proper toilet facilities because it takes a bit of time and effort?

They spent 2 hours rehearsing a school play, I am sure that a break to actually use the toilet even for 15 minutes could have been fitted in.

SirChenjin Fri 21-Jun-13 09:22:00

Yep, that's right - a bush is a perfectly adequate toilet facility for a child who needs a wee in my view.

ThoughtsPlease Fri 21-Jun-13 09:27:46

Righto confused

SirChenjin Fri 21-Jun-13 09:44:50

Maybe a re-read of the thread will help clear up that confusion? Plenty of people have explained why it's actually OK on occasion.

Mitzyme Fri 21-Jun-13 09:45:16

It's a close one but definitely the funniest thread of the week.
Sorry OP I know it was not funny for you and I don't think you are being unreasonable but I have really felt quite down this morning and this thread has really made me laugh, not at you of course.

ThoughtsPlease Fri 21-Jun-13 10:37:57

mitzy by all means have a laugh I'm not at all offended. smile

Yes of course it is ok on occasion, such as on a country walk etc, but not an occasion where there a loo a 2 minute walk away.

happyyonisleepyyoni Fri 21-Jun-13 11:48:28

YANBU and I cannot believe the posters who think this is OK!

Teachers should not be telling a bunch of 7 year olds its ok to just go and wee in a churchyard when there is a toilet 2 mins away or the next thing they will all be weeing in the playground.

Completely unacceptable and the teachers should have thought this one through by having more staff available to escort children back who really needed to go.

KitCat26 Fri 21-Jun-13 11:53:00

Bad planning on teachers part, they should have gone before they left. Outdoor weeing is a useful skill to have though.

A discrete wee in a churchyard doesn't bother me (not that it is a habit of mine grin ). Our local (mediaeval) church has recently had a toilet put in, in the churchyard. For hundreds of years that's where people would sneak out to relieve themselves during a long service.

xylem8 Fri 21-Jun-13 12:17:25

Bad planning on teachers part, they should have gone before they left

Oh I bet she never thought of that!

5Foot5 Fri 21-Jun-13 13:38:48

Well I think it was bad planning on the teacher's part. I am sure that she did tell all the children to go beforehand but she should have anticipated the need for a toilet break and scheduled it in.

Having said that OP I think you did over-react a bit and YABU to throw out shoes. I am surprised your DD has reached 7 without ever needing to take an al-fresco wee. Perhaps this wasn't the sort of circumstance when you would expect it or consider it appropriate, but I have often been in situations where you are the middle of nowhere and need a convenient bush to go behind! Maybe over the summer it would be a good idea to find a time and place to teach your DD this useful skill just in case.

ThermalGirl Fri 21-Jun-13 13:46:54

I am truly shocked that the teacher did this.

I am a teacher too and wouldn't dream of doing this. not because there's anything wrong with it, I might add. but because I could predict a hysterical backlash such as this grin

i'm sure it wasn't included in her risk assessment either, I mean, what if one of them got a stinging nettled bottom (like I did the other day!)

JamieandtheMagicTorch Fri 21-Jun-13 16:38:26

This isn't about one small child, caught short, weeing in a bush

It's about half a class, under the supervision of a teacher age 7 asked if they needed a wee (of course they will all say yes), encouraged to all go together. In a churchyard.

kinkyfuckery Sun 23-Jun-13 20:26:57

So what are you going to do about it OP?

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