AIBU to expect people to respect parent & child car spaces?

(185 Posts)
Holly129 Tue 18-Jun-13 11:59:13

This is something that has bugged me for a long time. I am constantly seeing men in vans in parent and child spaces amongst others. I would never park in a disabled space or a parent and child space if my dc were not with me!

Today I waited for a space at the GPs and when the person left a clearly signposted parent and child space someone cut me up and sped into the space. She then got out WITHOUT A CHILD. I wound my window down and said excuse me, I was waiting for that space and you don't have a child with you. Did she have the decency to back down or apologise? No, she gave me a tirade of abuse! There should be passes or something for those spaces, (like the disabled ones) to fine people who don't use them correctly.

Bumpotato Tue 18-Jun-13 11:59:57

YABU

Dahlen Tue 18-Jun-13 12:00:59

YABU. Most people don't respect anything unless there are consequences to not doing so. But you're not wrong in wishing more people would respect them. wink

oh dear god almighty.

P and C parking spaces are not the same as disabled parking spaces.

Bumpotato Tue 18-Jun-13 12:02:42

It's only a parking space. Disabled people have an actual need of a wide/close space. Personally I think P&C spaces should be scrapped. or not, they do make for some good entitled threads

minibmw2010 Tue 18-Jun-13 12:03:32

It's possibly not unreasonable, but it's definitely unrealistic. You can't force people to do things if they aren't going to do it and Parent & Child spaces are not legally enforceable, they are just 'goodwill' spots by the people who own the carpark. They're not a given.

TurnThatFrownUpsideDown Tue 18-Jun-13 12:04:08

I don't think you can compare a disabled place to a parent and child space.

They are totally different.

I think that's why there's such angst about these privileged P&C places. So many people think they're the same as disabled spots.

Again, they are totally different.

gordyslovesheep Tue 18-Jun-13 12:04:29

Nice idea but people don't ...they aren't comparable with disabled spaces really ...and that woman may have been collecting a child ...although if you where indicating she was rude to take it

decaffwithcream Tue 18-Jun-13 12:04:58

Parent and child spaces have nothing to do with disabled spaces.

livinginwonderland Tue 18-Jun-13 12:05:19

YABU. You don't have a legal right to a P&C space. They're just there so businesses look family friendly. Anyone is allowed to park there should they want to.

Fenton Tue 18-Jun-13 12:06:02

Hi Holly, you must be new.

Welcome to MN smile

decaffwithcream Tue 18-Jun-13 12:06:10

Although anyone cutting someone up and taking a space they are waiting for first is rude obviously.

ChewingOnLifesGristle Tue 18-Jun-13 12:06:35

They are nothing more than a courtesy and do not have any laws surrounding their use like disabled spaces, so yabu.

People do use them inconsiderately sometimes it's true, but honestly it's not worth getting steamed up about it.

Btw a disabled person can and should be using them if required as their need is greater.

TurnThatFrownUpsideDown Tue 18-Jun-13 12:07:08

To add, the sooner they get rid of such spaces the better, imo.

When my dd was little i either walked or used public transport with her as i don't drive. Try being bostled around on an overcrowded bus/train each week. I'd think it's far more annoying than having to park your car a little further from a supermarket.

All they do is cause aggression.

OnTheNingNangNong Tue 18-Jun-13 12:08:30

Of course having a child is the same as having a disability.
hmm

plainjaney Tue 18-Jun-13 12:09:38

YABU over the P&C, as for cutting you up to get to the space, last person who did that to me I parked behind, locked up my car and went on my way grin

He shouted me back, I told him I'd move when he was willing to vacate the space I was about to park in otherwise I was going in to the shop and would be a considerable time. I backed up, he moved. I took my space.
Tosser.

LST Tue 18-Jun-13 12:10:48

I aren't registered disabled but have a crippling disease and we ever need a c&p space when I have my child with me it pisses me off when I see people with out children using them.

sparklesandbling Tue 18-Jun-13 12:11:19

YABU regarding your comparison of disabled spaces being the same as parent and child spaces.

YANBU to expect those without children not to monopolise them when they do not have children or are not picking them up.

Next time u see someone pulling into one (p & C) consider that they may have a blue badge and all BB spaces taken up.

HeySoulSister Tue 18-Jun-13 12:13:38

men in vans might have dc with them too you know!!

MatersMate Tue 18-Jun-13 12:14:50

I think they should just rename them...wide bays. Then if you need more room you check there first, but you're not 'entitled' because you have children. Or don't as the case may be!

Holly129 Tue 18-Jun-13 12:24:42

plainjaney that is brilliant!

Obviously P & C spaces aren't the same as disabled spaces. The point is it's not right to use spaces allocated for other people. I have seen many abled people using disabled spaces too but at least (sometimes!) they get a fine!

I am mostly annoyed at the rudeness and complete lack of manners from this woman! Speeding and cutting someone up in a doctor's car park!

sparklesandbling Tue 18-Jun-13 12:25:41

I think P & C spaces should be done away with completely and there should be more disabled spaces, would save a lot of arguments and frustration.

Some people think they are entitled to these spaces and this is the problem.

Around Christmas time took DD out who has BB and surprise no BB spaces so went to reverse into p & C space. No other cars were waiting.

Another car decided (as I was reversing into space) that they should have it and because I was unwilling to have an accident I slowed to a stop (to avoid collision).
During this time he parked his car 3/4 of way into space.

My car was in space and out and parked 2 inches from passenger door. His partner had to climb over his seat to get out. I Think he was about to give me a mouthful when DD got out with helmet on and into mobility pushchair. (I had to pull her across 2 seats to get her out).

Needless to say I was a little pissed off.

OnTheNingNangNong Tue 18-Jun-13 12:28:18

Disabled spaces are covered by laws. Parent and child spaces are a luxury.

I'm going to use the old chestnut: everyone coped before we got lazy with all these P&C spaces.

manicinsomniac Tue 18-Jun-13 12:30:24

YANBU

They are called parent and child spaces. They are for parents who have children with them. It's not rocket science. I've been on mn for a couple of years and find the attitude to P and C spaces completey bizarre. Whether or not they are legally enforcable is irrelevant, lots of social norms and basic manners aren't law. If they're not meant for you have the common decency not to use them!

Sparklingbrook Tue 18-Jun-13 12:32:57

We don't have P&C spaces in my town. Solves all the problems.

Holly129 Tue 18-Jun-13 12:35:06

Well said manicinsomniac !!!

Eyesunderarock Tue 18-Jun-13 12:35:30

I find it weird that P&C places are for those with children under 12.

12? shock

5 makes sense.

arabesque Tue 18-Jun-13 12:39:29

I've never seen a P&C space at a doctor's surgery and find it a bizaare idea. Presumably a lot of people going to the doctor would have injuries or be quite elderly. Why shoud a parent take precedence for a parking space?

At supermarkets, as I said on another thread recently, they're a marketing device to attract the lucarative family market into the store, but a lot of parents now see them as some kind of 'need' or 'right' and become quite OTT about anyone else parking in them.

I agree with other posters. Just abolish them, it's all getting very silly.

Sirzy Tue 18-Jun-13 12:44:00

She shouldn't have cut you up but if the only free space in a car park was a p and c space I wouldn't think twice about using it even if DS wasn't with me

Sparklingbrook Tue 18-Jun-13 12:47:40

Exactly arabesque. Disabled spaces for adults and children are all that are required. P&C spaces are a nonsense.

Can't believe people wait for them either.

LuisSuarezTeeth Tue 18-Jun-13 12:49:07

Oh! Nice to see new topics discussed on MN. grin

Sparklingbrook Tue 18-Jun-13 12:49:47

Isn't it just Luis. grin

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit Tue 18-Jun-13 12:50:33

In the time that you waited for that space, and then had a go at the woman who cut you up, couldn't you have just saved yourself the bother and gone and parked somewhere else?

valiumredhead Tue 18-Jun-13 12:50:36

Disabled spaces are NOTHING like P and C spaces, nothing at all.

There is no need for P and C spaces at all imo - they just need to be got rid of. They weren't even around as far as I remember when my ds was little.

People wait hours for them sparkling

If none are available they just go home

We didnt have theses spaces when dd and ds1 were little, I dont know how I managed to leave the house tbh grin

1Veryhungrycaterpillar Tue 18-Jun-13 12:53:04

We have large vehicles spaces, v handy. When I was heavily pregnant I got boxed in a couple of times and couldnt squeeze in the gap

Sparklingbrook Tue 18-Jun-13 12:54:13

Nooo Tantrums. Go home?. Really? Just bloomin' park and get on with stuff. confused

Or get the bus? As long as it stops at the door of where you are going obviously. No walking from the bus stop to the store. shock

arabesque Tue 18-Jun-13 12:58:42

Are you MAD Sparkling. The kids could get rained on standing at the bus stop, or run out onto the road shock

ChunkyPickle Tue 18-Jun-13 12:58:53

Hear me out here a bit, but, I have a being with me, who cannot walk very far, has poor extremely poor impulse control and understanding of both the world around him and how to follow instructions or communicate his needs. He is incontinent, doesn't deal well with loud noises, or change and must have a carer with him at all times.

Now I could be talking about someone with a severe disability, or I could be talking about a 2 year-old.

I'm absolutely not saying that means that I should be able to park in an accessible slot because I have a toddler, but I do think that people who do have to deal with such a person aren't being unreasonable to request that people who don't, don't take up those spaces which the shops have provided for them.

A supermarket that policed them properly would be much more likely to get my (fairly substantial) monthly shop than one that's more of a pain for me to use.

arabesque Tue 18-Jun-13 13:01:01

Chunky, you can carry a two year old or put them in the seat of the trolley. It really isn't the same thing at all.

ChunkyPickle Tue 18-Jun-13 13:02:49

I've got to laugh at the idea of doing a weekly shop for a family of 6, with 3 kids in tow, on the twice a day (improved service) that went through the village when I was growing up... mum would have been crippled by the milk and bread alone! It really isn't very feasible if you live some places.

Of course back then they'd park at the back of the carpark and leave us in the car while they did the shop, and I don't remember any of us ever having the enormous seats that DS has had since he was born (in fact they were considered weird by my friends for having 5 point harnesses), so wider P&C spaces weren't needed at all.

The bus is a whole other thread sparkling

You might have to fold the buggy
Or move out of the way.

Having small children is a lot more difficult now apparently. grin

I remember when dd was born, you wasn't allowed to bring the pushchair on the bus unless it was folded, there was no space.

DeepRedBetty Tue 18-Jun-13 13:03:50

<settles back with brew>

Been all of three days since the last P&C space thread.

Sparklingbrook Tue 18-Jun-13 13:04:30

Yes Tantrums I am old and not up to date with modern parenting. Maybe I need a refresher course. confused

ChunkyPickle Tue 18-Jun-13 13:05:52

I'm not saying it's the same - I'm saying there are a lot of similarities, and that a bit of consideration from all sides would be nice.

Oh, and not the point - but my 2 year old is >15kg so no seat, and trying to shop while carrying him is hardly feasible (so I commit the terrible sin of putting him in the trolly itself, or worse let him run around and help)

Babies and toddlers now dissolve in the rain sparkling
It is also too dangerous to park anywhere else in case your DCs run into the car park.

God only knows how we prevented our DCs from running into the car park. Or how we used to get out of our cars.

Sparklingbrook Tue 18-Jun-13 13:10:21

We must have managed somehow Tantrums. I wish there was P&C spaces in my town and I could study what happens.

Our Doctors doesn't even have a car park. It's £1 an hour in the local Pay and Display. sad

o for gods sake!

p&c spaces are a PRIVILEGE and not a right

go and park elsewhere and dont fret about it

ballinacup Tue 18-Jun-13 13:12:29

I never understand the vitriol leveled at P&C spaces on Mumsnet. Most of us are parents, why wouldn't you leave the spaces free for other parents and make their lives a bit easier?

Yes, I know that newborns don't melt. I also know that P&C spots are not the same as disabled spots, but do you know what? When I was childfree, I wouldn't have ever considered parking in either because I didn't need them. Why should a childless adult park in a P&C space just because they can?

Does doing so seriously not smack of utter, total asshattery? There is a car park outside my office, one bay is marked out for use by disabled people. However, it's a private car park so there is a large sign in front of it saying that people without a blue badge can park in it. Would I? No! Because I'm not a douche so, even though I could why would I choose to make someone else's life that bit more difficult?

Sparklingbrook Tue 18-Jun-13 13:12:52

Fairy sums it up nicely.

Eyesunderarock Tue 18-Jun-13 13:19:14

Sparkling, Arabesque, Tantrums, There ought to be a clique. grin

i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad72/geoffquine/statler_waldorf_02_01.jpg

valiumredhead Tue 18-Jun-13 13:30:21

I have seen many abled people using disabled spaces too

You've seen their doctor's notes then have you? And studied their BB application forms?

chunky really not the same at all as a 2 year old as being disabled. Good grief when ds was a baby/toddler I used to walk and use the bus!

WillSantaComeAgain Tue 18-Jun-13 13:34:31

Well, interestingly, there can be a legal similarity between P&C and Disabled spaces.

In a PRIVATE car park (so, supermarket car parks, NCP car parks etc) you are bound by the terms of the car park operators terms and conditions. It is a private contract and if a supermarket has designated a space as being exclusively for the use of a parent with a child, then you are breaching the contract with the supermarket.

Some disabled spaces in private car parks are not designated by law and in these circumstances, someone not disabled who is parking in them is breaking the contract in no different way to someone without a child parking in a P&C space. In a private car park, there is therefore no legal obligation to display your blue badge.

Obviously, if a disabled parking space is designated by law, then it is a parking offence to park there and totally different to a P&C space.

I am not new to Mumsnet and I have not yet come across a coherent argument as to why it is OK to park in a P&C space without a child (unless you are a blue badge holder). It is rude and VU to do so. Selfish fuckers.

So, OP, YANBU.

HoldMeCloserTonyDanza Tue 18-Jun-13 13:34:56

I am 28 and there were definitely P&C spaces when I was little. They're not that new.

Eyesunderarock Tue 18-Jun-13 13:36:26

Hey, maybe that's why I was thin and fit when I had mine? I used the buggy, and I backpacked my shopping.
<Fond recollections of firm thighs and serious stamina>

WillSantaComeAgain Tue 18-Jun-13 13:37:08

And don't get me started on the distorted use of blue badges - my college friend who was perfectly capable of walking 2 miles home after a night out because he was too tight to afford a cab should not get the same parking privileges as my best friend, who is a T10 quadraplegic. College friend liked parking close but needed no extra space. Best friend cannot get out of her car in a normal space.

manticlimactic Tue 18-Jun-13 13:40:48

Move them to the back of the car park. Then only people who want the wider bays would park in them. grin

ChunkyPickle Tue 18-Jun-13 13:43:51

Well, I'm short dumpy, heavily pregnant and happy to either walk to the shops with DS/rucksack it back (even in the rain) or park elsewhere in the carpark, yet, I still think that P&C spaces are useful, and that people should only park in them if they have a kid.

I think it falls in with my general "don't be a dick" philosophy of life.

But go-ahead, feel free to justify inconsiderate people parking in them for no reason, or have a go at people who are foolish enough to live somewhere where driving to the supermarket is the only feasible way to shop.

gordyslovesheep Tue 18-Jun-13 13:44:59

Willsantacomeagain I have been shouted at for getting in my car without kids ...only when I parked I did have them with me ...there dad came and collected them. It's not always as simple as people assume when a childless person dares be seen using them

I manage quiet will in normal spaces with a mega bus and three kids ...p+c spaces are nice but not worth getting in a shitfit about

arabesque Tue 18-Jun-13 13:45:29

LOL Eyesunderarock. Which one can I be?

WillSanta do you not think elderly people might like to park close to the door. Also, should people without children go home without their shopping if they are searching for a space and the only one that becomes available is a P&C space.

Whatever about extra wide spaces, the whole concept of P&C spaces being close to the door is quite selfish as it means other people who might need them can't use them. Why should a seventy five year old have to totter over to the far reaches of the car park so that some young fit mum can whizz into a space right beside the door?

Sparklingbrook Tue 18-Jun-13 13:48:36

Now elderly peoples spaces. That would be very good.

Eyesunderarock Tue 18-Jun-13 13:49:40

So, another MN campaign to have P&C spaces protected by staff, but for them to be at the furthest end of the car park.
Sounds reasonable, and as soon as they are less conveniently-placed, the problems will disappear.

arabesque Tue 18-Jun-13 13:53:33

I agree. Just put them at the other end of the car park. Lots of extra wide spaces for parents, spaces at the door freed up for elderly people, disabled people and selfish fuckers. grin

Thereonthestair Tue 18-Jun-13 14:03:42

I can't believe I am going to comment but here goes. I have a 3 year old, he has a blue badge.

I have actually only felt the need to use a P+C space within the last week. For the previous year at least I parked as close as I could to where I was going. I have only used a disabled space 3 times so far and the one time I used the P+C space I felt guilty even though i had ds with me, as an older person with a stick and a blue badge was parked slightly further away. By the time I had carried DS around the shop I felt less guilty. Bit I did carry him around as wheelchair trolleys don't work for children, and standard child seat trolleys don't work for a tall toddler wearing splints so they cannot get into the trolley to sit easily if at all.

However we managed, he didn't melt and I still think perhaps the older person's need was greater because I can walk, and i can carry my 15 kg plus son and push a trolley.

It is very hard to get the blue badge for a three year old. And it was impossible for him when he was 2 despite the fact i carry a buggy and a walking frame everywhere with us. Maybe some people have distorted use of blue badges but I have not seen it. And those who are entitled to them use them less than you might think.

Now if I could have a blue badge cycle space for my son's disability trike I would be happy....

Thereonthestair Tue 18-Jun-13 14:04:32

mind you i will also shop online whenever I can

SirRaymondClench Tue 18-Jun-13 14:10:03

YANBU Op

Holly129 Tue 18-Jun-13 15:16:03

ballinacup you are a very respectful and NORMAL driver, I commend you!!

Sirzy Tue 18-Jun-13 15:35:31

Move them to the back of the car park. Then only people who want the wider bays would park in them.

Exactly.

But then people would complain they had to walk their children in a car park and they couldn't possibly control their child and a trolley!

allmycats Tue 18-Jun-13 15:41:55

Why not just have wider spaces and place them in various different places throughout the car park ?

I have a child he is 25 when he goes shopping with me can I still park in the parent and child place because he is my child and I am his parent ??

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit Tue 18-Jun-13 15:45:27

No, some daft twat would sue the supermarket when their child got run over as they walked from the back of the supermarket.

If you're the type to get properly riled up by someone without children using a P&C space, then I'm going to suggest that you change to online shopping. It'll save your blood pressure.

Rhiana1979 Tue 18-Jun-13 16:00:50

I never understand the vitriol leveled at P&C spaces on Mumsnet. Most of us are parents, why wouldn't you leave the spaces free for other parents and make their lives a bit easier?

Yes, I know that newborns don't melt. I also know that P&C spots are not the same as disabled spots, but do you know what? When I was childfree, I wouldn't have ever considered parking in either because I didn't need them. Why should a childless adult park in a P&C space just because they can?

Does doing so seriously not smack of utter, total asshattery? There is a car park outside my office, one bay is marked out for use by disabled people. However, it's a private car park so there is a large sign in front of it saying that people without a blue badge can park in it. Would I? No! Because I'm not a douche so, even though I could why would I choose to make someone else's life that bit more difficult?

^^ this

arabesque Tue 18-Jun-13 16:11:13

I presume all of the parents who fear for the life and safety and dryness of their children if they have to walk across the car park always go home if there is no P&C space available and never, ever take their children anywhere where they might have to walk any distance in the rain or be steered across a busy road?

Twattybollocks Tue 18-Jun-13 16:15:20

Yanbu. It is annoying, and people should leave them for people who actually need them, for example people trying to fasten kids into car seats, or getting an infant carrier out of the back, or disabled people who can't find a blue badge space. They are not for people who drive a huge posh car and don't want it scratched, people who can't park full stop, and of course the idle entitled selfish fuckers who just can't be arsed to walk.
I know they aren't essential if you have kids, but in reality, who wants to traipse across the car park in the pissing rain with a baby in the car seat, have to put the trolley back, lug the car seat to the car, put it on the floor behind the next car, reverse out 6ft, get out, put car seat in car, get back in and drive off? Or like my friend had to do recently, put her 18 month old in the boot while she reversed out so she had enough room to strap him in, and listen to all the abuse from people trying to get past the back of her car in the car park.
No in the scheme of things it's not that important, but it can make the difference between a fairly stress free shopping trip (as much as it can be with small children) and a bloody nightmare with a wet child who whines or cries all the way round the supermarket and all the way home.

arabesque Tue 18-Jun-13 16:40:06

In reality, Twatty, lots of people don't want to traipse across the car park in the rain, some whose need might actually be greater than a parent with a small child.
A lot of your argument could be resolved by putting extra wide spaces at the back of the carpark. No, it's not nice for babies to get wet. But neither is it nice for elderly people, people vulnerable after an illness or surgery etc etc.

OrangeLily Tue 18-Jun-13 16:53:30

But then why should the childless be made to park further away from a shop just because they have decided to (or possibly can't breed).

But then I don't actually think or follow that just because I don't mind the extra 5 seconds it takes to walk.

I'm just waiting for someone to mention 4x4s....

PrincessScrumpy Tue 18-Jun-13 17:04:44

I get frustrated when I see parents with older children parking there but I don't think they quite get the reason for them. If I take one dc shopping I never use them but it's a nightmare trying to strap all 3 into their seats without bashing the car next to us with the car door. I have resorted to putting dtds into their rear facing car seats through the boot before.
My gp doesn't have them but my gp told me to use the disabled space when dtds were tiny as I had to carry them into the surgery in their car seats (pushchair wouldn't fit) and I had a hernia.
If they just made normal spaces a bit wider there would be less of an issue.

Doodledumdums Tue 18-Jun-13 18:48:49

Wow, some harsh responses here!!

I don't think you are being unreasonable OP. I find it annoying too.

Sure, let's do away with P&C spaces. I assume that no one will complain when their car doors get dented by parents who are trying to wrestle toddlers into car seats while parked in tiny parking spaces?

Or yes, let's relocate them to the other end of the car park, just to ensure that people are using them because they legitimately need more space to get car seats in and buggies out, not because they are lazy and think their children disolve in the rain. That isn't petty at all!

Mainly I want to use p and c spaces because I find it really difficult getting my car seat in and out of my car in normal spaces, not because of their proximity to the shop. But if you really begrudge people being allowed to park closer to the shop to make their lives slightly easier when shopping with small children, then maybe you would also like to have a go at us for using disposable nappies (because they didn't have the convenience of those years ago either), or using folding travel systems rather than coach built prams? Because god forbid we make the lives of stressed, sleep deprived mothers slightly easier.

Sparklingbrook Tue 18-Jun-13 18:53:19

No P&C spaces in my town and no noticeable dentage car wise Doodle.

1Veryhungrycaterpillar Tue 18-Jun-13 18:55:07

I'd just love wider spaces to get car seats in etc, don't give a damn where they are in a carpark but it scares me that someone would jump into a space you were waiting for regardless of whether or not it was p & c and then give you a torrent of abuse

1Veryhungrycaterpillar Tue 18-Jun-13 18:56:37

Ive had my car dented by kids swinging the car door open, child locks please people

bestsonever Tue 18-Jun-13 19:05:15

Parents who take there kids shopping are highly likely to be spending more money on goods than others (impossible not to - "mum, can I have?"), so in that sense we have paid for the privilege of the space and supermarkets know this, so that's why they have them as encouragement.
Having said that, I still park in them without my son on way home from work - late evening, when should be in bed anyway- and on school days. People should apply common sense, ie not on a busy Sat/Sun afternoon but after waking hours why not?

lolidayplanning Tue 18-Jun-13 19:10:43

'Parents who have kids will likely spend more money' Doubt it. I spend a fortune on expensive food and wine and smelly candles and magazines and yumyumyum other stuff and decorative bits etc etc while my mates with kids buy fishfingers from tesco because all their cash goes on nursery fees.

Sirzy Tue 18-Jun-13 19:12:44

Don't get the car seat in and out then.

Somehow I have managed 3 years of getting DS in and out of the car without damaging anyone elses, I don't think it takes much really.

I get frustrated when I see parents with older children parking there but I don't think they quite get the reason for them

DS has asthma, he is only 3 at the moment but as he gets older when his asthma is bad and I have no option but to nip to Asda with him then I will use the P and C spaces with him, I don't care if anyone judges but it makes life easier for him and his need is greater than most "but I NEED to get my seat out" parents!

Sparklingbrook Tue 18-Jun-13 19:22:26

Sliding rear doors are a real plus.

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit Tue 18-Jun-13 19:26:47

I have come back to a shopping centre car park (with DS in baby car seat) to find that cars have parked so close either side of me that the our wing mirrors are practically touching. I have to admit I was not particularly careful about avoid scratching their car with the car seat and my car door as I tried to wrestle it back in. Stupid fucking fuckers. Even if I didn't have the car seat with me, they parked stupidly close.

Sparklingbrook Tue 18-Jun-13 19:28:25

sad Hop

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit Tue 18-Jun-13 19:29:53

Not my proudest moment. But seriously, who parks like that?!

exoticfruits Tue 18-Jun-13 19:36:43

I really wish they would do away with them- they cause far too many problems. We never had them when mine were small and we managed fine.

Doodledumdums Tue 18-Jun-13 19:42:57

How can I not get the car seat out?! I can hardly push a tesco trolly full of food with one hand and hold my 5mo in the other arm! I do need to get the car seat out and put it on the trolly. There have been plenty of times when the car parked next to me has parked too close to get my car seat in the car, luckily DH has reversed the car a bit each time, but on my own with a 2 door car, it's really difficult, and if I can't get the seat back in then I can hardly leave the baby in his car seat on the floor while I reverse out of the space!

Of course no one is entitled to a p&c space, but having them there is of no inconvenience to anyone else, they can act as overspill parking if disabled bays are all full, and they make life a little bit simpler for parents...so I REALLY don't understand why people think they are so bad?!

Salmotrutta Tue 18-Jun-13 19:46:41

I'd much rather see them re-consigned as blue badge spaces to be honest.

Or if parents really feel they need extra space they should be at the back of the car park.

I'd far rather the spaces nearer the door were reserved for the older generation like me.

valiumredhead Tue 18-Jun-13 19:58:34

I didn't drive when ds was little but Dh did, we never got the car seat out, we lifted ds out.

Doodledumdums Tue 18-Jun-13 20:01:14

But where do you put a baby if you're shopping alone and you don't get the car seat out?!

Sparklingbrook Tue 18-Jun-13 20:02:01

I would say that even if the P&C spaces are full chances there are spaces a bit or even a lot further away in the empty bit of the car park. These spaces would be the ones I would use if I had a baby in a car seat now as I did back then.

valiumredhead Tue 18-Jun-13 20:04:24

I put ds in a trolley with a baby seat.

valiumredhead Tue 18-Jun-13 20:04:35

In

valiumredhead Tue 18-Jun-13 20:05:18

Random in ignore that!

Sirzy Tue 18-Jun-13 20:06:20

In a trolley with a baby seat.

I got the car seat out for about the first 2 weeks and then quickly realised that it was the biggest hassle going and made things so much harder!

Doodledumdums Tue 18-Jun-13 20:08:12

As much as I hate to admit it, as I really don't see an issue with p&c spaces... you do make a valid point there sparkling! smile

Doodledumdums Tue 18-Jun-13 20:13:40

My supermarket has about two of those trolleys and I can rarely get one! Mostly I have to use the one where you strap the car seat on the top. I hate it as I prefer the other type as I am short and can't see over the top of the car seat while pushing the trolley, but that is on the whole what I am forced to do. Also it is really tricky getting my baby out of the car seat and out of the car as my car is two door and I find it really awkward and only like doing it if I can pass him to someone before I get out.

Sparklingbrook Tue 18-Jun-13 20:14:34

It's ideal Doodle. Pull the trolley round next to the car in the empty space, open door wide, and place either baby into trolley seat or car seat onto the trolley. grin

Nobody waiting for you to strap baby back in after so they can have your space. Take your time-far less stressful.

The only problem was v busy times/Christmas but possibly best to avoid them with or without baby. grin

usualsuspect Tue 18-Jun-13 20:18:55

<runs screaming from thread>

Doodledumdums Tue 18-Jun-13 20:24:59

Okay I will do that next time sparkling! Unless I can get a p&c space grin

Yes probably best to avoid ALL shops at xmas with a baby I think!! I'm dreading the idea of xmas shopping with a buggy, and we still have over 6 months yet!

MiaowTheCat Tue 18-Jun-13 20:25:55

Manifesto for world, well Waitrose, peace.

1) Remove all painted lines from carpark
2) Fix all the bloody potholes (I'm stretching the imagination here)
3) Get yellow paint out - stick disabled bays at entrance
4) Paint in all other lines, remembering that the 1960s have been and gone, and we're not all driving Minis these days... make all the spaces larger, make them less of 'em since the carpark's never full anyway
5) Enforce the disabled spaces - preferably with sharp spikey objects for those who don't obey them

Everyone can get their child, carseat, cat, dog, gerbil, backside in and out of spaces, and the internet is safe from P+C space threads.

Doodledumdums Tue 18-Jun-13 20:29:51

Haha, miaow, that sounds like a VERY good idea!

Salmotrutta Tue 18-Jun-13 20:30:50

That's far too sensible Miaow.

It'll never work...

grin

Salmotrutta Tue 18-Jun-13 20:32:37

Start your Christmas shopping now then Doodle.

Like my friend hmm

the incredibly smug one

Doodledumdums Tue 18-Jun-13 20:36:15

Oh no, that is FAR too organised! I am incapable of organisation!

Salmotrutta Tue 18-Jun-13 20:42:34

So am I... grin

decaffwithcream Tue 18-Jun-13 20:43:23

"Hear me out here a bit, but, I have a being with me, who cannot walk very far, has poor extremely poor impulse control and understanding of both the world around him and how to follow instructions or communicate his needs. He is incontinent, doesn't deal well with loud noises, or change and must have a carer with him at all times.

Now I could be talking about someone with a severe disability, or I could be talking about a 2 year-old."

You could be talking about my son who has severe multiple disabilities. Do you think that a 2 year old who can't walk very far raises the same difficulties as a 12 year old who can't walk very far?

Physically never mind in terms of the stress?

Do you think that stopping a 12 year old with poor impulse control From going in front of a car is as easy as stopping a 2 year old?

Do you think that the temporary difficulties a toddler experiences communicating his needs are in any way comparable to being unable to communicate your needs for all your life?

Or the difficulties of a toddler who has not yet been toilet trained are in the same realm of someone who is actually doubly incontinent but much bigger?

Never Mind the myriad other issues caring for a disabled person raises that looking after an NT toddler does not.

I found that was an incredibly inappropriate comparison to make. I'm sure your point was not to compare severely disabled people to toddlers but that is what your post effectively did. I found it quite a kick to the stomach to read:

"Now I could be talking about someone with a severe disability, or I could be talking about a 2 year-old." at the end of your description and I wish you would rethink leaving that post here.

BreeWannabe Tue 18-Jun-13 20:44:43

Twenty years ago P and C spaces did not exist. And those mothers managed just fine. YABU. Just be glad you have a car.
And I agree with the other posters re your comparisons with disabled spaces.

I found it very upsetting too decaff sad

BreeWannabe Tue 18-Jun-13 20:45:54

Well said, decaff.

LifeHope11 Tue 18-Jun-13 20:54:29

The other day we came to the supermarket car park with our disabled 12 year old DC...couldn't find a disabled parking space as all were full. One or two of the cars in these spaces were missing blue badges (as frequently happens). One of them had a scribbled note under the windscreen wiper: 'Sorry no P & C space free so I parked here'. We can't get the wheelchair out of the car without the extra space of a disabled parking bay so we had to leave.

I'm afraid 'sorry' is not good enough. Disabled people NEED these spaces while parents of young children (and I have been one) do not need P&C spaces, they are just a useful convenience. Please, please be careful in even seeming to equate the two as it just encourages the less sensitive to regard them as much the same when they are not. There is only a small minority who are selfish and bloody minded enough to park in these spaces;unfortunately there are still in enough numbers to make things very difficult indeed for the most vulnerable among us.

NayFindus Tue 18-Jun-13 21:13:32

Oh dear is it P&C space time again already? Try Asda. Tesco are pants. Asda spaces are lovely and big without having to be P&C. Sainsbury are quite good here too since they added about 30 into their car park smile.

maddening Tue 18-Jun-13 21:15:21

Definitely no comparison with p&c and disabled parking spaces - p&c are a nice to have.

However I do think that the well I coped in the 70's /80's etc argument is shite - we did /didn't do/have lots of things that we do/don't have/do nowadays - it doesn't mean that they are a bad idea.

We also didn't have such massive carparks with so many cars zipping around then, less people drove etc p&c spaces aren't necessarily about being nearer to the shop - they are about safety for dc in busy car parks (eg space to get dc out of car and usually next to a foot path so small dc not walking in traffic.

So yanbu to feel people who don't fit the criteria or have parking exemption rights (eg blue badge) should use another space.

Also though - the woman who barged in front of you was out of line whether it was a p &c spot or not - you were there first and she pushed in so she wbu.

Also - why are there not more cars with sliding doors - surely they would help parents getting dc out of cars? <ponders>

NayFindus Tue 18-Jun-13 21:16:00

Since they added 30 P&C spaces smile.

PS - if they don't leave enough space to get the car seat out, they don't want you buying your families shopping there for the next 20 years. So don't.

Cravey Tue 18-Jun-13 21:16:46

Bloody hell. Not again. They are a customer advantage. Not a right. Get over it.

SHarri13 Tue 18-Jun-13 21:16:50

In my (almost) 5 years as a mother, I've from raging to exasperated to angry to cross to a little bit annoyed to not giving a fuck. I generally avoid the P&C space as I just can't be arsed to worry about them. All this with three kids and 'fun' bus....

MacaYoniandCheese Tue 18-Jun-13 21:19:05

Who cares? It is quite possible to walk 20 feet into a store while pregnant and/or caring for a child or two, or three...P and C spaces are bollocks; walking is good for you smile.

Cravey Tue 18-Jun-13 21:19:54

Chunky that is possibly the most offensive, idiotic post I have ever read on here. You should be ashamed of yourself. Idiotic.

Bodicea Tue 18-Jun-13 21:21:22

think everyone should be allowed to use them after 9pm apart from that they should be afforded same respect at disabled spaces.

Cravey Tue 18-Jun-13 21:24:03

Having a baby / child is not the same as having a disability. Simple. Anyone with half a brain can see that. Having a child in the car does not give you some divine right to a parking space. Having a toddler is no way near having a disability. Believe me I have coped with both.

Sirzy Tue 18-Jun-13 21:25:43

they are about safety for dc in busy car parks (eg space to get dc out of car and usually next to a foot path so small dc not walking in traffic

I struggle to understand this argument for them. How do these people who struggle to keep their children safe in a car park without P and C spaces cope in the vast majority of car parks which don't have P and C spaces? or when they have to walk along a section of road with no pavement?

Surely it is better to teach your children to be safe next to the road, and make sure you are holding hands/reins and keeping them close besides you so they develop the sensible ability to keep safe around traffic?

MrsOakenshield Tue 18-Jun-13 21:26:50

Twenty years ago P and C spaces did not exist. And those mothers managed just fine.

Did they? Have you canvassed every mother from then to ascertain this? Because I know that my mother always comments on how useful things like P&C spaces are, and how she would have liked them to have been around in her day, instead of being sour-faced and bitter about it and saying, well if we did without it so should you.

It's worth remembering too that car park spaces have not widened much since then, unlike cars. If I park not in a P&C space, but come back to my car to find a mahoosive wagon on either side, damn right I struggle to get the door open.

Also, it's just manners, surely? After all, there's no law to say I have to give up my seat to a pregnant woman, or an elderly person (for example) is there? But it would be pretty fucking rude of me, an able-bodied young(ish) woman not to give my seat to someone who needed it more than me. No difference here at all.

1Veryhungrycaterpillar Tue 18-Jun-13 21:27:33

If my baby falls asleep in the car seat I'm bloody well getting it out!

Until I joined MN and read threads about P&C spaces, I had assumed they were there because if you have a small baby in a seat it's hard to get it out unless you can open the door wide, hence the extra width of the bays, not that it was so people with children could park closer to the shops.

When my DD was in a baby seat, there were two memorable instances where (when having a 3 door car) I had to pull DD out of the boot by putting a seat down in the back to get her in the stupid travel system as I couldn't get the door open wide enough! grin

I stopped using the spaces when she was out of that seat.

Alisvolatpropiis Tue 18-Jun-13 21:48:50

Yabu.

They're a courtesy not a legal right.

spotscotch Tue 18-Jun-13 21:50:44

I do agree that p&c spaces should just be scrapped scrapped they just cause people to get annoyed when really, anyone with a child is perfectly able to park in a normal space.

However, I do think that ballinacup 's words 'asshat' and 'douche' to describe people who park in them them without kids is spot on. Why do people do it? I saw a guy the other day park in one when literally 3 spaces further down there was a whole load of normal spaces.

I know people on here fall over themselves to declare how they are incomparable to disabled spaces as soon as the words 'parent and child spaces'.... well yes obviously they are. But as they do exist, why would you unnecessarily park in one unless you were a fuckwit?

spotscotch Tue 18-Jun-13 21:52:38

Gosh excuse my terrible typing blush

shallweshop Tue 18-Jun-13 21:56:39

YANBU - yes, P&C spaces are a courtesy and I think it is sad that people think it is reasonable to expect people not to demonstrate such courtesy. It is not the law to hold doors open for others walking through, or to say 'please' or 'thank you' or not to be rude to others but when people don't do these things I think it is reasonable to be pissed off"

MrsOakenshield Tue 18-Jun-13 21:58:46

They're a courtesy not a legal right.

So why can't people courteously leave them for whom they are intended?

shallweshop Tue 18-Jun-13 22:02:42

and actually I understand the OP comparison to disabled spaces and P&C spaces in so far as the whole point is to offer a little more room and leeway when either dealing with a wheelchair or a young baby in a car seat. I am sure she was not suggesting that being disabled is the same as having a young baby! I do get cross when I see people with kids who can clearly get in and out and do their own seatbelts still using P&C spaces.

Alisvolatpropiis Tue 18-Jun-13 22:09:08

It is not the same shallwe. Parents can and do manage to get their children out of cars without extra wide spaces. A wheelchair user for example cannot get out of normal size space and manouvere themselves into a wheelchair. It is disingenuous to claim it is the same.

Parent and child - I wouldn't raise eyebrows at a child up to about 10 getting out of a car parked there to be honest.

shallweshop Tue 18-Jun-13 22:20:25

Alisvol - re-read my post, I didn't say it was the same, I said the point of offering the spaces was to create a bit more room. I don't disagree that a wheelchair user could not cope without the space whereas a parent with a young baby could but I don't think it is unreasonable to expect both spaces to be respected by others.

Alisvolatpropiis Tue 18-Jun-13 22:21:37

I did read your post. I just don't think the two are comparable.

shallweshop Tue 18-Jun-13 22:23:20

and the idea of a parent with a 10 year old needing the space is just odd! I repeat, the whole idea of creating the parent and child spaces was to provide extra room for getting young children in and out of the car and getting in to do seatbelts for them etc. I think they should not call them parent and child but specifically, parent and baby/toddler spaces.

shallweshop Tue 18-Jun-13 22:26:14

Alisvol - you have obviously never been to my local Waitrose with a new baby! The spaces are barely big enough to get myself out of the car let alone when my two were tiny.

Alisvolatpropiis Tue 18-Jun-13 22:26:50

You're probably right there re being called parent and baby/toddler spaces. But as it is they're not and a 10 year old is very much child. <shrug>

I don't myself park in p&c or disabled spaces because i need neither. I just can't bring myself to care as much about people without children parking in p&c spaces as i do non disabled people parking in disabled spaces.

DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved Tue 18-Jun-13 22:28:49

Another one agreeing with decaff here

But I'd like to add to whoever wrote that facile comparison ... Are you comparing me to a toddler? and what about the fact that I also have a toddler of my own? Maybe you don't think disabled people are allowed to be parents? Or need to go to the shops?

Perhaps I should just make sure someone else 'looks after me' like I'm a toddler shall I?

Unimpressed.

sunshine401 Tue 18-Jun-13 22:33:53

The ones local to me have fine notices up they do seem to work as not many people chose to risk it now.
They also state that although they are a parent and child parking space they are recommend for under 5's.
They are just bigger spaces not closer to the shops as the close ones are quite rightly disabled or "Dropping off" zones.
This is the case in my local Tesco,Asda and Morrisons.

Lambsie Tue 18-Jun-13 22:34:55

I also agree with Decaff. Don't compare my son with a toddler.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf Tue 18-Jun-13 22:49:44

What decaff said.

I think P&C spaces are like Quiet Carriages on trains. They cause more problems than they solve.

lozster Wed 19-Jun-13 05:14:50

I got to the grand old age of 40 without kids and never felt the need to take a p&c space. I am now hugely pregnant and having problems opening the door wide enough to get myself out. I still don't use a p&c. This should be about need. Need to fling the door wide and for assistance with buckles etc. So, Disabled first, babies second, toddlers next, ladies with enormous bumps who are on their own, next and children who don't need help last if at all. These spaces are about accessibility not proximity to a door.

I'm an old codger but the difference when I was a kid was that there were no car seats so the need for wide door flinging was less. It's a bit sad that people can't appreciate the greater needs of others. My mum has restricted mobility with knee and hip problems. She has problems getting in and out of my car but at least I can let her out before I pull in to a space. I can't do that with my baby bump or with a baby. it's a bit depressing that people are so selfish. I counted ten p&c spaces in aldi this week and only one had a kid with them. There were disabled spaces free btw so I take it the occupants weren't disabled.

Morgause Wed 19-Jun-13 05:43:38

It would be a nicer world if everyone conceded spaces to those with a greater need but, it seems to me, people are becoming increasingly selfish - or at least seem unaware of those with greater needs.

Yesterday on my way out of Asda I saw a white van (it would have to be) park at right angles across 3 disabled spaces in order to use the ATM. There were plenty of other spaces but I did wonder if he would have done it even if there weren't free spaces. No doubt the driver would argue that he was only there for a few minutes.

I think Asda should maybe have sited the ATM somewhere where people are less likely to park in disabled bays or sited the bays away from the ATM. There were ordinary bays just as close the the entrance as the ones they have.

I don't have a problem with P&C spaces but we never shop when it's crowded. If they were the only spaces available it would be annoying to see so many empty spaces so perhaps they shouldn't be as "reserved" as the disabled spaces.

I don't really understand the hostility to them.

exoticfruits Wed 19-Jun-13 07:04:25

I agree that wider spaces to open a door are a good thing. However they don't need to be near an entrance - if they put them in a far corner(but where you didn't need to cross in front if traffic) the problem would be solved.

sashh Wed 19-Jun-13 07:10:14

* There should be passes or something for those spaces, (like the disabled ones) to fine people who don't use them correctly.*

Er yeah, that works really well.

Sirzy Wed 19-Jun-13 07:16:19

Lozter - I think your way of assessing "need" is rather simplistic and doesn't take into account individual needs.

DS is 3 but is asthmatic and some days really struggles to walk so his "need" to park closer to the shop is probably greater than the "need" of a parent of a baby to get the car seat out.

I have arthritis and when my knee is really bad I "need" the extra door room to be able to get my leg out without being in agony (I drive an automatic so can still drive when it is really bad)

Neither of us have (or thankfully need) blue badges but there are times when we do need bigger/closer to the shop spaces.

What really annoys me is when people can assess people's medical condition simply by looking at them. Especially when talking about disabled spaces. I didn't know that there was such a thing as "looking disabled"

Lazyjaney Wed 19-Jun-13 07:25:27

I've lived in a number of countries, I think a big problem in the UK is that parking spaces are so narrow to begin with.

But P&C spaces do seem to be a magnet for the entitled

Sparklingbrook Wed 19-Jun-13 07:28:48

Multi storey car parks are the worst for narrow spaces. My nearest has the narrow spaces with huge pillars to avoid too. Even with no baby/car seat it is a struggle to park and get out or walk between the cars. sad

Fortunately they have made the Disabled spaces proper size and in the right place.

Lazyjaney Wed 19-Jun-13 07:30:03

"I think P&C spaces are like Quiet Carriages on trains. They cause more problems than they solve"

Quiet carriages are a godsend, and most people are very reasonable with them, but there always seems to be just one prick in the carriage.

FanjoForTheMammaries Wed 19-Jun-13 07:34:53

Chunkypickle. A toddler is nothing like "someone with a severe disability". My DD has a blue badge for the reasons you list about your toddler and I can assure you an NT toddler is nothing like her nor do they face the challenges she does.

Op..YANBU. these threads always attract the grouchy who like to pounce on any parent who shows a weakness and call them "entitled" for being glad of anything which makes life easier.

Of course people without kids shouldn't park in the P and C space. It's just called.being polite and considerate and not an ornery arse.

cory Wed 19-Jun-13 07:49:01

ChunkyPickle Tue 18-Jun-13 12:58:53
"Hear me out here a bit, but, I have a being with me, who cannot walk very far, has poor extremely poor impulse control and understanding of both the world around him and how to follow instructions or communicate his needs. He is incontinent, doesn't deal well with loud noises, or change and must have a carer with him at all times.

Now I could be talking about someone with a severe disability, or I could be talking about a 2 year-old."

I'll give you a couple of clues:

does he weigh 2 stone or 16 stone?

is he small enough to pick up in your arms and plonked in a small buggy or does he need to be carefully rolled out into his adult sized wheelchair?

if he resisted you physically, which of you is the strongest?

could he be restrained by a firm grip on the reins or do you need to make sure he doesn't panic because you know you could not hold him?

if he does have a meltdown would it intimidate other shoppers?

will having to walk a little bit further cause him severe pain that may render him incapable of functioning for the next week?

I'm coming round shortly to lend you my severely disabled MIL. She only covers the first two of my points, but I think that would be quite enough for you to be getting on with. grin

crashdoll Wed 19-Jun-13 08:17:40

I'm sure ChunkyPickle didn't set out to be offensive but she really was. I drafted a reply last night but it didn't sound right. Fortunately, there are some very articulate MNers who said it much better than I ever could.

Foxtrot26 Wed 19-Jun-13 08:25:20

As previously mentioned not all of those vans you see parked in a p&c will be without child

Had a lovely interaction with a lady in tesco a few weeks ago

Pulled my taxi into a p&c space jumped out and instantly got hit with a tirade of foul mouthed abuse about parking in said p&c space.

Promptly ignored her and lifted ds2 out his car seat much to her shock

People can have kids in works vehicles too, my DD used to love going out in my transit when I was. White van man

MiaowTheCat Wed 19-Jun-13 08:48:38

To whoever mentioned Asda's big spaces - I wish! Round here they're microscopically small! However I avoid their P+C spaces like the plague as it's the land that braincells forgot... to the extent that last time I was there (I go to Asda quite rarely) we had the spectacle of two cars on opposite sides of the P+C aisle reversing out, neither assuming anything was in their way and both promptly going straight backwards into each other!

I generally find I can get a space on a aisle end anyway and not need to join the P+C scrum if spaces are at a premium - I get the extra space needed that way and I'm quite often in and out of the store while people are still waiting for their precious P+C space (and that's with two kids under the age of 15 months before people assume my kids must be older and "easier") - or the P+C spaces around the corner that everyone forgets about because they're scrapping for the five outside the front of the store.

arabesque Wed 19-Jun-13 10:56:48

Also, it's just manners, surely? After all, there's no law to say I have to give up my seat to a pregnant woman, or an elderly person (for example) is there? But it would be pretty fucking rude of me, an able-bodied young(ish) woman not to give my seat to someone who needed it more than me. No difference here at all. [Quote]

The point is, though, on a bus you would also give up your seat to an elderly person or someone obviously struggling with an awkward parcel or somesuch. P&C spaces at the door mean no one else can park near the shop regardless of need. Again, why should an elderly person who's a bit unsteady on their feet come second to a fit young mum with children??

Cravey Wed 19-Jun-13 11:07:23

Oh sirzy I am s with you on the people assessing needs when you use a blue badge. A lovely elderly gentleman asked me two weeks ago why my son needs a badge as he can walk perfectly well. I didn't answer him as I know the air would have been blue. Such a shame the nice gentleman didn't see us two days later when in the middle of a crisis my son was in his chair and looking about 100.

HooverFairy Wed 19-Jun-13 11:31:19

P&C spaces annoy me purely because of the sense of entitlement some people seem to have towards them. However, as a parent I have found they are very useful and it really hacks me off when people abuse them. I don't think getting rid of them altogether is a solution but I think that having them at the front of the shop is a bit much. I use them mainly because they are wider and it's easier to get my LO in and out without battering the car next to me, the designated spaces would be just as much help to me at the back of the car park and probably less desirable to other people. YANBU, I wanted to shriek at the woman who got out of her brand new range rover that she had parked in the P&C space at my local supermarket, followed by her 'daughter' (I presume?) who was my age, talk about taking the piss.

P&C spaces are not the same as disabled spaces, if there are few disabled spaces then get rid of the P&C spaces and create more. It's not about 'rights' when it comes to P&C spaces, more about convenience and helpfulness. People who can't park in the P&C bays also get to do their shopping without it being punctuated by trying to cope with their LO as well as concentrate on the shopping. Fair trade off, I'd say! And no, if my LO is not in the car or if there are spaces on the end of a row then I don't park in the P&C spaces. I think I used them more straight after I'd given birth, less to walk!

arabesque Wed 19-Jun-13 12:19:31

I think I used them more straight after I'd given birth, less to walk!
[quote]

That's part of the point. I remember my SIL driving me to the supermarket shortly after I'd had a complete hysterectomy and I was praying there'd be a space near the door as I knew I wasn't capable of walking too far. I honestly think, if the only space free had been a P&C one, I would have asked her to park in it. I am sure there are many people in the same situation who a. really appreciate someone bringing to the supermarket and getting out of the house for a short while but b. really can't walk too far and need to be able to leave the shop and get back to the car asap once tiredness and breathlessness sets in.
Spaces near the door are convenient for parents with small children, but they are also convenient for other people as well and the supermarkets shouldn't be deciding that one group is more in need than another (apart obviously from BB holders.)

sparklesandbling Wed 19-Jun-13 12:26:28

I have a DD who is still a toddler but has disabilities.

You cannot compare the need to open the car door fully for a disabled person as opening it so u can (in preference as opposed to using suitable trolley) take a car seat out.

I have to open the door fully for my DD as she has splints and gets into mobility pushchair.

I cannot understand why people think its the same!

morticia74 Wed 19-Jun-13 15:56:27

Wow, I have never parked in a P&C space - but now I think I will!

Now the argument for generally wider parking spaces is useful - especially as my car is wide and sometimes some tossers park so close that I can't even open the door properly without bashing their car let alone actually get in.....

vintageclock Wed 19-Jun-13 16:18:05

I agree with the view that they should be moved to the back of the car park. As for the poster who claims that because parents spend more in the supermarket they have 'bought their right to a space by the door', what a load of rubbish. In fact it makes me want to borrow a minibus and park it sideways across several P&C spaces.

I also hate this view that people who object to the self entitled behaviour around these spaces are 'sour', 'bitter' etc. No, they're not. I don't think anyone would object if the spaces were reserved for elderly people or converted to BB spaces, or simply had a sign saying 'we would respectfully request that spaces by the door are left for those who really need such spaces' or somesuch. It is the selection of one group of people at the expense of other equally deserving people such as old people or, as Arabesque pointed out, people who are temporarily not very able bodied, that most people object to.

Gentleness Wed 19-Jun-13 16:54:49

I find it astonishing that anyone would be so crass as to deliberately use a space in order to make others cross or upset. Whatever the rights or wrongs about p&c spaces, that is just infantile.

NayFindus Wed 19-Jun-13 17:03:13

Hi Miaow, it was me grin. Our Asda's lovely. The disabled bays are right at the front door (as they should be). To the side is a big long walkway with parking either side. Vans can park there, 4X4s, pick up trucks, it doesn't matter, you can always get in and out, and then at the end of the walkway's a crossing so it's actually safer than P&C up the back. I don't know why people park anywhere else.

morticia74 Wed 19-Jun-13 17:07:01

I don't think people deliberately park there just to piss people off - but if it's busy and all the other spaces are taken up. Why the hell now? I will in future.

juule Wed 19-Jun-13 17:41:58

"'we would respectfully request that spaces by the door are left for those who really need such spaces'"

While a bit wordy, I like the sentiment in this.

TokenGirl1 Wed 19-Jun-13 18:16:50

I think there's a common misconception on this site that p and c spaces are used by people who want to park close to the shops and are too lazy to park further away.

In my experience is that cars tend to be a bit wider nowadays compared to those of 20-30 odd years ago so spaces in some car parks aren't very wide. Also, because we use car seats now, you need to britax able to open your passenger doors quite wide to get your child in and out.

I am more than happy to park where no other cars are in a car park so I can get my kids in and out of the car easily but someone always seems to park next to me and not give me enough space to open the door wide enough to get my toddlers in the car and my body in far enough to strap them in. It drives me mad. Don't even talk to me about the times when I had to get an infant carrier out of both sides of the car, they're heavy enough either a sleeping baby in them without struggling to get them out of the car.

That is why people need p and c spaces. Not because they are entitled or lazy. It's just common courtesy to only use these spaces when you actually need them.

YADNBU OP.

TokenGirl1 Wed 19-Jun-13 18:18:08

be able to not britax!

chateauferret Wed 19-Jun-13 18:22:01

At my local supermarkets the P&C spaces are where they are because that's where they keep the various toddler and baby friendly trollies with the wee seats. If you have to park a long way from these when you have a baby or toddler in tow it can be a pain in the arse. This is why people parking two-seater sports cars there without DCs in them can give me the hump: unnecessary buggy deployment or baby portage required.

TokenGirl1 Wed 19-Jun-13 18:27:01

Yes, I agree with moving the spaces further away from the shops and I expect that they will then be used for the people that they are intended for.

exoticfruits Wed 19-Jun-13 19:21:06

It is the really easy answer TokenGirl- can't see why it isn't done.

Gentleness Wed 19-Jun-13 19:31:37

Moving the spaces is fine - but it's a bit like saying people can't be relied on to be kind. We have to make it in their own interests to do something helpful to others. Sad.

I've been there shifting 3 children under 4 across a carpark on my own in the rain. My mum was too. That's why she'd rather I had a bit of help. Why wouldn't you want to make it easier? Would you rather it was harder, made the family more stressed, wasted time that could be spent better ways? (I say "you" because saying "one" would sound ridiculous.)

Sparklingbrook Wed 19-Jun-13 19:40:33

The world would be a nicer place if people weren't selfish or lazy. sad

LadyBeagleEyes Wed 19-Jun-13 19:56:21

P and c car spaces are for the lazy, whether you have a kid or not, if it's pissing down with rain and a howling gale, we all want to get in and out as soon as possible.
Personally, I.ve never used them, I don.t drive, but when ds was small my ex just parked wherever and ds came out unscathed.
I want a 'person who hates getting their hair wet' space myself.
I also agree that there should be spaces for the elderly, many don't have a blue badge, but they struggle way more than fit healthy mums.

Curleyhazel Wed 19-Jun-13 20:23:47

Agree with manic on social norms and basic manners.

I don't understand why p&c parking should be done away with, sorry must be missing something here.

It's not fun keeping one, two or more babies and toddlers safe whilst pushing a fully loaded trolley across a large supermarket car park with lots of stressed out shoppers who are in a hurry.

LadyBeagleEyes Wed 19-Jun-13 22:13:40

Nah, the p&c brigade would be up in arms to have to cross a car park.
It's not about space, it's about entitlement.
They have small children don't you know.

shallweshop Wed 19-Jun-13 22:18:48

Tokengirl, I agree. The whole principle is about allowing a bit of extra space, not about being closer to the shop and being lazy!

morticia74 Wed 19-Jun-13 22:19:46

Sod that. If one is empty and I can't get another space then now I will park there....easier for my coupe!!

Doodledumdums Thu 20-Jun-13 00:04:20

It IS about space. I couldn't give a shit where the p&c parking is, I like to use it because it makes it easier to get my baby out of the car, and that's a fact. There have been a number of people on this thread who have said this, we aren't liars, we don't feel 'entitled', and we aren't part of some 'p & c brigade.

I think it would be petty to move the p&c spaces to the back of the car park, and would certainly mean that it couldn't act as overflow parking if the disabled spaces were all full, which would be a shame. But sure, by all means petition to have it moved if it makes you feel better?!

Doodledumdums Thu 20-Jun-13 00:14:22

Actually, i've changed my mind. It is about space for me bwcause I have a baby in a car seat, but when my baby is bigger, by which time I may have one or two other children, it will no longer just be about space, it will also be about safety. I have not done it as I am a first time mum, but I can imagine that getting three small children of varying ages across a car park, while trying to negotiate a trolley full of shopping, can't be very easy. So I see no issue in the slightest with making things slightly easier for the mother/father, amd safer for the children/other drivers.

VixZenFenchell Thu 20-Jun-13 00:36:30

We don't really have P&C spaces here - there are a couple labelled "Stork" near the front of the car park but they're the same size as all the others & mostly get used by everyone. Each space is separated by a double line to allow for larger cars/door opening needs.

However - this woman sped into a doctors car park, cut OP up to get into the space, unleashed an angry torrent ... Did anyone think she might have been called in as her child was in extremis in there? Or another family member? Think if I'd been called by someone and told "this is the surgery, we have your DP/DS here and you need to come now" I might have behaved exactly as this driver did. Screamed into the first space I could see whether someone was waiting or not, hurled angry panic at anyone who tried to slow me down and raced into the surgery.

Of course if she was just late, or going shopping or something, then she was just rude.

exoticfruits Thu 20-Jun-13 06:58:30

You wouldn't put them so they had to cross the car park- you would put them so they didn't need to cross but in a far corner- problem solved. They do not need to be near the shop- they just need extra space.

Sparklingbrook Thu 20-Jun-13 07:08:33

Yes there could be a path all the way to the door. shock

FanjoForTheMammaries Thu 20-Jun-13 07:23:27

VixZen has a point.

DH's road manners went by the wayside when we were rushing DD to A and E with an allergic reaction..lots of horn honking

exoticfruits Thu 20-Jun-13 07:33:50

They could paint feet on the pavement so that they know the safe way. Children, even small ones can walk or they can sit on trolleys - the relevant ones would be in the right area.

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