Note: Please bear in mind that whilst this topic does canvass opinions, it is not a fight club. You may disagree with other posters but we do ask you please to stick to our Talk Guidelines and to be civil. We don't allow personal attacks or troll-hunting. Do please report any. Thanks, MNHQ.

To be sickened by this and to despise 'men' who do this.

(97 Posts)
ClaireBeauchamp Sun 16-Jun-13 21:10:28

http://the-invisible-men.tumblr.com/post/51590932152

Have been reading this website this evening and I am sick to my stomach at this post and countless others like it. The complete disregard of the woman as anything but a receptacle....GOD I AM SO MAD.

How fucking dare they????

I HATE men who use prostitutes. Have a deep loathing and thinly disguised contempt for them. The fact that you can effectively buy a woman to service you for the night (or for the hour more realistically).....

McNewPants2013 Sun 16-Jun-13 21:14:12
HollyBerryBush Sun 16-Jun-13 21:19:13

Why are you reading it?

ClaireBeauchamp Sun 16-Jun-13 21:21:03

It was a link from a feminist webpage I was on. Could not believe what I was reading at first, I thought it was dark satire or something.

VikkiiKawaii Sun 16-Jun-13 21:21:38

The site won't load for me. What is it??

LuisSuarezTeeth England Sun 16-Jun-13 21:23:04

I think there was a recent thread about this OP. it certainly resonated strongly on MN.

HollyBerryBush Sun 16-Jun-13 21:23:13

I really don't know why I click on links - I don't search for this stuff and I don't know who anyone who does - but if I do inadvertently click on a site (rare) and it offends me I shut it down.

gloucestergirl Sun 16-Jun-13 21:23:24

How did you find this? Am getting really sick of the internet, news and reality basically at the moment. Although it sounds like some misogynistic fantasy rather than real life...but what do I know. Vile!

RachaelCurtis Sun 16-Jun-13 21:23:51

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ParadiseChick Sun 16-Jun-13 21:24:08

There's being outraged at something you come across and there's going out of your way to find something to be outraged at.

HollyBerryBush Sun 16-Jun-13 21:26:29

Well call me an irritating cunt - but I wouldn't be publicising it

ClaireBeauchamp Sun 16-Jun-13 21:27:42

I'm outraged (to say the least) at something I came across, I did not go out of my way looking for this (did not even know sites like this existed) as I said it was a link from a feminist website

LuisSuarezTeeth England Sun 16-Jun-13 21:28:30
Audio158 Sun 16-Jun-13 21:32:22

Don't know what you're talking about because I'm not going to click on, I assume, a disgusting link and have that on my history.

With Holly and Paradise.

FreudiansSlipper Sun 16-Jun-13 21:33:34

and there are those who want to this profession going as it is apparently the oldest profession hmm

no mans dick is going to fall off if he does not have sex

horrible but this is what many prostitutes deal with and what many men get away paying for sad

flippinada Sun 16-Jun-13 21:33:41

YANBU I've seen this and it's vile, very disturbing.

Why should the OP not post about it if she finds the subject matter distressing and wants to discuss it?

Not wanting to read this, while understandable (it's horrible stuff) doesn't make men like this disappear.

Also, please don't mention p**ternet as it's like the perverts version if 'Candyman' (say it too many times and you attract them).

flippinada Sun 16-Jun-13 21:35:06

"horrible but this is what many prostitutes deal with and what many men get away paying for"

Absolutely Freudian. Grim stuff.

RachaelCurtis Sun 16-Jun-13 21:35:45

Why on earth does it matter how the OP found it? It's horrible.

ghayes Sun 16-Jun-13 21:36:15

I would prefer to have prostition than to have what would be required to eradicate it completely.

ParadiseChick Sun 16-Jun-13 21:37:41

Just a random link was it? With no explanation? And no discussion there that you could have been outraged on?

Just felt the need to share did you?

McNewPants2013 Sun 16-Jun-13 21:37:51

Ghayes and what would that be.

ghayes Sun 16-Jun-13 21:38:29

Something akin to the Taliban.

FreudiansSlipper Sun 16-Jun-13 21:38:33

and what would that be ghayes

mens dicks falling off as they could not have sex

ParadiseChick Sun 16-Jun-13 21:38:53

Of course it is horrible stuff. The internet is full of horrible stuff.

WafflyVersatile Sun 16-Jun-13 21:39:38

I couldn't really follow how to navigate that site, but then I don't particularly want to read more.

However I did click on something from there that looked quite interesting.

Anyone read/heard of these?

www.goodreads.com/list/show/2171.The_Royal_Diaries

Never had them when I was a kid but I'd maybe get them for nieces (in a few years) Nice to have a series about powerful women, even if it is royal women.

FreudiansSlipper Sun 16-Jun-13 21:40:25

obvioulsy you know very little about the Taliban ghayes

ghayes Sun 16-Jun-13 21:41:22

How would you put an end to prostitution?

flippinada Sun 16-Jun-13 21:42:30

If the OP wants to discuss this then why shouldn't she post a discussion on it ParadiseChick?

HollyBerryBush Sun 16-Jun-13 21:42:39

Oi! So why is some twat having a pop at me for not reading this shite, not clicking links and not publicising such dirge?

FadBook Sun 16-Jun-13 21:43:17

I've seen this already on the feminist thread and whilst sickening it has opened my eyes to the world of prostitution and how women are seen as a 'commodity' to be brought / used / abused.

I'm more educated just from reading the feminist thread as this is happening daily. Part of a bigger picture for me is ensuring that our children (boys - sons, nephews etc) grow up to respecting women and not seeing prostitution as an easy lay, or 'buy a shag' or whatever.

It's very grim hmm

FreudiansSlipper Sun 16-Jun-13 21:43:36

i would like to see men who use protitues fined and have a criminal record

it would not end it but start making it more difficult for those that use them

ParadiseChick Sun 16-Jun-13 21:44:20

Surely there was a discussion around it on the site she read it on?

It's hardly raising issues or awareness, it's looking for fellow frothers.

McNewPants2013 Sun 16-Jun-13 21:45:22

I would see people who pay for sex arrested charged and put on the sex offenders register.

I would also like the government to help and support these vulnerable women.

HighInterestRat Sun 16-Jun-13 21:45:28

Yanbu.

Men who use prostitutes are inadequates.

Pagwatch Sun 16-Jun-13 21:46:56

I am enjoying those repeatedly posting on a thread they think is shite to argue that if you find shite on the Internet you should just ignore it...

LuisSuarezTeeth England Sun 16-Jun-13 21:49:26

This has already been discussed as a feminist issue on MN. Stop jumping on the OP, don't click if you don't want to.

flippinada Sun 16-Jun-13 21:49:28

"I am enjoying those repeatedly posting on a thread they think is shite to argue that if you find shite on the Internet you should just ignore it...
"

grin

RachaelCurtis Sun 16-Jun-13 21:50:34

Holly, I assume I'm the twat you mention. I am genuinely sorry that I offended you. The last thing I want to do is upset people on here; that's really not my intention. I was rude and I apologise.

For the record, I'm not a twat. Though I can be quite irritating at times.

ghayes Sun 16-Jun-13 21:51:15

I don't think classing men who pay for sex as the same as rapist and child abusers as being a good thing.

What consenting adults choose to do together is their own business. I emphasise consenting.

McNewPants2013 Sun 16-Jun-13 21:51:16

But first the government should make it illegal to pay for sex.

LuisSuarezTeeth England Sun 16-Jun-13 21:53:03

My link is to the MN discussion btw

flippinada Sun 16-Jun-13 21:53:23

As I said, I don't blame people for not wanting to read this kind of thing as it's very unpleasant (there is a warning at the top of the page if you click on the link, you're not taken straight to the nasty stuff), and once you know it you can't unknow it.

McNewPants2013 Sun 16-Jun-13 21:54:21

Do you really think these women have a choice ghayes.

MurderOfCrows Sun 16-Jun-13 21:55:57

Do you really think all prostitutes are trafficked/victims, McNew?

MurderOfCrows Sun 16-Jun-13 21:56:24

I'll give you the answer, shall I?: No

ParadiseChick Sun 16-Jun-13 21:56:38

I suppose what I'm getting at its this: I could spend five minutes on Google and end up with tabs full of things that would outrage me. I don't go out of my way to find these things. I prefer a more activist approach when I do engage in an issue that offends me. Thinking 'ok, that's wrong, what can I do about it'.

Not just omg this is shocking here everybody look at what I'm outraged at, get outraged with me.

ghayes Sun 16-Jun-13 21:56:55

How would the government make it illegal to pay for sex?

ParadiseChick Sun 16-Jun-13 21:57:47

I hope that makes sense.

MurderOfCrows Sun 16-Jun-13 21:58:04

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

MurderOfCrows Sun 16-Jun-13 22:00:15

Paradise, it does make sense. I'm tired of the professionally outraged who, with a little more internet discernment, could in actual fact find themselves much less outraged on far fewer occasions.

flippinada Sun 16-Jun-13 22:01:19

Here we go....

Sheshelob Sun 16-Jun-13 22:01:51

Murder - what is your point?

FreudiansSlipper Sun 16-Jun-13 22:03:53

Murder not all women are but many women are forced or feel they have no other option. there are some who think it is an easy way to make money they soon realise it is not

what would happen if suddenly there were no prostitutes. the sex industry causes far more harm than any good it could possibly ever do

MurderOfCrows Sun 16-Jun-13 22:04:20

..that is isn't just men who seek prostitutes who degrade women like this.

flippinada Sun 16-Jun-13 22:07:16

No it isn't Murder you are correct about that. Many men who visit prostitutes also have wives and partners. How depressing.

McNewPants2013 Sun 16-Jun-13 22:07:52

m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11012084

I agree but I don't think any little girl dreams of becoming a prositute.

These are desperate women in a very difficult place.

HabbaDabbaDoo Sun 16-Jun-13 22:07:58

This is a step up from people who read the Daily Mail and then post on here about how disgusted they are with the DM. And here is a link to the DM so that you too can read it and be disgusted as well.

Sorry OP but I am not going to follow the link. Why should? Some men are uber twats. Why do I need to read crap and be disgusted just so that I can confirm something that I know?

And why would you want to generate more traffic to a site that you are so disgusted with?

Sheshelob Sun 16-Jun-13 22:08:06

Granted. It is more often than not that sex workers have been subjected to sexual violence as children or young people.

So what do you think the best way of dealing with endemic sexual violence against women and children should be?

Sheshelob Sun 16-Jun-13 22:09:05

Sorry - that was to murder.

flippinada Sun 16-Jun-13 22:15:41

I wonder if some people have misunderstood what the link is about. That is meant genuinely, not in a snarky way. It's not to p*net or anything like that.

It's a project that has been created to show, without comment (that is deliberate, I believe) what men are saying about prostituted women.

Sheshelob Sun 16-Jun-13 22:17:15

I know the thread, and p*net, and an a bit shocked at the level of denial here.

I'm off to bed.

Enjoy thrashing this one out.

WildlingPrincess Sun 16-Jun-13 22:17:39

I really want to be surprised.

MurderOfCrows Sun 16-Jun-13 22:18:26

Shesh, I really, honestly don't know. All I know is that throughout my twenties (and even my thirties) I slept with various nice, middle-class, respectable men who thought nothing of trying to skull-fuck me or shove their cock up my arse. When I objected or refused it was as though they had never considered that that kind of behaviour was degrading to women. I wasn't an easy lay, either, but when the dates became sexual it was as if everything they had seen and learned from their internet porn habits was fodder to be practised gratuitously on the first available woman. These were men whose beloved mothers probably considered them little angels.

FreudiansSlipper Sun 16-Jun-13 22:23:33

the difference is that hopefully they would have stopped

a man paying to use a womens body may not and many have the attitude well i can do what i like as i am paying

sad that they have probably watched far too much porn and are unable to understand the difference between real sex and porn sex

RiotsNotDiets Sun 16-Jun-13 22:25:22

Ghayes it is illegal to pay for sex.

MurderOfCrows Sun 16-Jun-13 22:28:41

Yes, Freudian, I can certainly see that some men paying for sex may feel it's a licence to degrade the woman in question. I certainly don't want to negate the awful experiences of some prostitutes. I just wish that our boys and young men growing up in this age of internet porn would find something else to do with their time. It's not good for women all-round sad

RiotsNotDiets Sun 16-Jun-13 22:30:11

hang on. am I wrong there?

I read something the other day about some twat ringing 999 to complain that a woman he paid for sex was too ugly, and the police told him that the woman had done nothing wrong and that in fact he was breaking the law by soliciting sex.

Which I thought meant to pay for sex, but I just googled it, and it appears that there are loopholes and it's not always illegal?

I have totally confused myself here.

FreudiansSlipper Sun 16-Jun-13 22:31:11

no it is not

nothing about the sex industry is good for women or men

conorsrockers Sun 16-Jun-13 22:31:56

From my previous life as a pub manager in a city, our clientele at lunchtime was mainly made up of truckers, but we also had a regular 'gang' of prostitutes having a swift one and a spot of lunch before they started their 'shift'. They would have not even blinked at that link - as far as they were concerned they were the ones that have the last laugh. Don't assume they are all vunerable, previously abused heroin addicts. For the most part they took advantage of vunerable, pathetic, desperate men!!!

MurderOfCrows Sun 16-Jun-13 22:32:05

...I honestly think we are seeing a whole generation of boys/young men who can't see the difference between real sex and porn sex.

McNewPants2013 Sun 16-Jun-13 22:33:21
FreudiansSlipper Sun 16-Jun-13 22:35:32

what they forced these vulnerable men to have sex with them for money?

OldLadyKnowsNothing Sun 16-Jun-13 22:36:03

Riotsnotdiets: It is legal to pay for sex. It is legal to be paid for sex. It is not legal to solicit in a public place, and it is not legal to profit from the control of prostitutes.

(General UK position)

RiotsNotDiets Sun 16-Jun-13 22:42:32

Blergh. What a world eh?

I think it should be illegal, and I agree with whoever said that those who do pay for sex should be put on the sex offenders register.

I think it's vital to teach boys to respect women and not to objectify them, of course this needs to start at home, but nobody is solely influenced by their immediate family and things like page 3, porn and the insidious sexism ingrained in most cultures have to go.

RiotsNotDiets Sun 16-Jun-13 22:43:52

Thanks OldLady

conorsrockers Sun 16-Jun-13 22:46:17

pretty much. They'd get them 'addicted' to it and have them pay a higher and higher fee every week to do crazier and crazier stuff. To them it was just a job.

conorsrockers Sun 16-Jun-13 22:47:17

That was in reply to Freudian's post smile

FreudiansSlipper Sun 16-Jun-13 22:51:55

poor guys i am guessing if they did not have this sex they were addicted to they exploded

Portofino Sun 16-Jun-13 22:54:31

What would happen if there were NO prostitutes? would a certain proportion of the population self combust?

HabbaDabbaDoo Sun 16-Jun-13 22:54:43

Some time last year I read a Sunday newspaper expose on Eastern European 'escorts' working in London. Some were prostitutes back home but a surprising number were just students and office workers and the like. All were in the UK to work as prostitutes for 6 months (length of their Visa) and then return home and use the money to start a business or as a depiosit on a house or to pay for university or... or ....

They would register with a number of agencies who would advertise the ladies on their websites and in return take on average a £50 per booking. More if it was for a longer booking. Some agencies would supply flats to work out of, usually for an inflated rent.

My point? Not all prostitutes are forced into it. Are there trafficked women forced to work as prostitutes? Of course. Should their pimps and customers be punished? Of course. But if a woman, of her own free will, want to sell her body so that she can get a house deposit then I don't see why other people get to be morally outraged at men who choose to visit these women.

Portofino Sun 16-Jun-13 23:01:39

so it is right that the only way these women can earn money is by selling themselves.? They aren't victims because they chose to do it? How may similar stories do you hear about men?

FreudiansSlipper Sun 16-Jun-13 23:04:11

what about the stories of the women being abused, beaten up, not getting paid, not being able to save as pimp/agency takes a large amount, money spent on drugs to make the work a little more tolerable

these stories are not so often printed as they do not intest people. we find the belle de jour stories far more exciting it almost seems glamours and a little naughty but that is not the story of most prostitutes

ghayes Sun 16-Jun-13 23:05:58

Maybe they can earn a lot more money selling themselves then they can doing other work?

I honestly don't think it is possible to stop prostitution. Just minimise the negative effects of it.

Portofino Sun 16-Jun-13 23:07:10

How many men come from Eastern Europe to earn a house deposit? A lot. I bet they aren't all getting shagged up the arse in Kings Cross. They will be building, working the fields, doing all the jobs UK people used to do before wages dropped so low no UK person with a brain cell will do and give up their benefits. just think for one little moment about what makes a woman do that.

HabbaDabbaDoo Sun 16-Jun-13 23:10:40

Some people steal cars because to them it's more profitable than a legit job. Are these people victims like women who sell their bodies because it's more profitable than working as a waitress for example?

I recall reading a story about an African girl turning to prostitution to keep her family from starving. Aids had killed her dad. Are you seriously comparing victims like that with some woman turning to prostitution for 6 months so that she can get money to start up a hairdressing business back in Latvia?

HabbaDabbaDoo Sun 16-Jun-13 23:17:54

After the above Sunday paper I got talking to a Filipino co worker and she said that the 'decent' girls will go abroad and work as minimum wage cleaners and nannies while some 'lazy' girls (her words) turn to prostitution to make more more money.

Sure newspapers like to print Belle de Jour type stories but the opposing side are just as selective in their argument.

FreudiansSlipper Sun 16-Jun-13 23:34:33

there circumstances may be different but the abuse that many women suffer in their work is brushed over. the romantic views like belle de jour make it sound fun and glamours the reality is not that for most and is not as interesting

and really what do you think a woman feels about herself after having sex with maybe 5 men in one day. do you think money really makes her feel ok about it all do you not think it leaves emotional scars, damages herself self esteem

i would like to like in a society where we did not think it was ok to buy people for our own gratification

FloraFox Mon 17-Jun-13 00:14:38

One thing that comes out clearly from these reports is that not only do they take no steps to ascertain whether a woman is consenting to sex, they whine if the woman gives any indication that she is not happy or if she seems drunk etc but carry on with the sex anyway. That is rape. And those reports on punter net are moderated. Christ only know what the ones that don't make it on are like. They really do expose punters as the vile abusers they are.

FasterStronger Mon 17-Jun-13 07:48:03

a friend worked on a street worker project and his charities study showed that most the women they worked with had been in children's homes and groomed into it by 'boyfriends' when they were 12-14 ish.

they used drink and drugs to numb their fucked up lives. they had never known 'normal' and did not know what love was.

the media shows happy hookers but rarely seem to show these lost lives.

Sheshelob Mon 17-Jun-13 08:28:57

Exactly, Faster.

I used to believe in the happy hooker thing, as the image of victimisation of women sat awkwardly with me, as I thought it played into the weak woman image.

But I have learned a lot about this subject over the past 2 years, and now feel very differently. Even if women "choose" to do it, it is often because many feel they might as well be paid to have sex with people they don't want to, rather than people taking it for free. And a staggering number are still children when they first enter into it. And once you are in, it can be very hard to get out, even if you aren't trafficked.

The happy hookers are in the minority, and the media's obsession with it makes it very difficult to have a sensible discussion about sex work in our society. It is as if all the thousands of women who come from backgrounds of abuse, who develop addictions or speak out about the sexual violence they have experienced are ruining it for the happy hookers, who we are told are strong, independent women making their fortunes from male "weakness".

If we continue to peddle the prostitution as liberation myth, especially as the law currently stands, we are fooling ourselves. For the few who may be "empowered" by it, they are a majority for whom it has been damaging and negative. We need to be more alive to their voices. Until we are, we are accepting the fact that there is a section of our society who are disposable.

FasterStronger Mon 17-Jun-13 08:44:17

a version of the happy hooker : the beautiful happy hooker who gets paid a fortune to visit posh hotels, wear expensive clothes, have sex with handsome business men who treat them well.

what percentage of women are beautiful enough so rich men with pay thousands for one night?

one in a hundred? one in a thousand?

women used to 'work' outside my house (it was a very trendy up and coming area). I used to stand behind them in shops. you could see arms covered in scars and cigarette burns. skin that was ruined by a life of abuse so it was hard to work about their age to a couple of decades. is she 25 or 45? is another one 40 something or 60 something? women 'working' who had no teeth....

of course the media would rather tell the story of beauty, glamour and money than child abuse then faded youth and self abuse.

xylem8 Mon 17-Jun-13 08:59:59

Florafox of course it isn't rape. lots of people hate their jobs that doesn't mean they are slaves!
I do think that prostitution should be regulated so that checks can be made that people are not being forced into it against their will, that they are not underage etc

FloraFox Mon 17-Jun-13 18:14:43

Sex without consent is rape. Paying to have sex with someone who is not consenting to the sex is paying to rape someone. This is a typical punter viewpoint that a prostitute cannot be raped because she has been paid. Prostitutes are women who deserve the protection of the law as much as any other but unfortunately are routinely failed by the legal system.

gertrude4grapes Mon 17-Jun-13 19:05:59

Penetrative sex is rape.

Holly129 Mon 17-Jun-13 20:04:16

A warning would have been nice before clicking on that!! Prostitutes choose their line of work, men choose to use that service. Me and you might find it sickening but it's their choice. I am also choosing never to read anything like that again. Cheers!

RiotsNotDiets Mon 17-Jun-13 20:24:40

all penetrative sex Gertrude? confused

Holly there is a warning on the site before you read anything. And not many women (or no women depending on your views) CHOOSE to be prostituted, haven't you heard of sex trafficking?

Yeah that's just fucked up to be honest.

YANBU.

There are some messed up guys out there.

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now