Should women be allowed to do everything men do?

(284 Posts)
Hullygully Thu 13-Jun-13 11:08:15

Talk to me about equality.

MalenkyRusskyDrakonchik Thu 13-Jun-13 11:10:00

Nah. Our vaginas get in the way all the time.

DeWe Thu 13-Jun-13 11:10:54

If you wish to go into the gents and wee standing up, then I won't stop you. grin

Hullygully Thu 13-Jun-13 11:10:57

No, this is a serious point.

Are we not equal but different?

Don't we all have different roles?

Trapper Thu 13-Jun-13 11:11:37

You are welcome to do everything I need to do today. I'll go back to bed.

Sheshelob Thu 13-Jun-13 11:11:39


Jar opening is something my vagina inhibits me from doing.

Oh, and working as a team. I can't do that.

VinegarDrinker Thu 13-Jun-13 11:11:42

What things are we not allowed to do?

Submarines? Front line combat? There must be more.

mmmerangue Thu 13-Jun-13 11:11:58

Yes, if they want to.

Not every woman is as strong as a man, but some women are stronger than some men.

Not every woman wants to be a builder, or in the army, or whatever your preferred 'male role' is, but some do.

Not ever man wants to either.

My favourite quality story of the week

Buzzardbird Thu 13-Jun-13 11:12:01

No, we should be made to undress to the sound of cheesy music.

MalenkyRusskyDrakonchik Thu 13-Jun-13 11:12:03

I think the differences between any two individuals randomly picked are just as significant as the differences between men and women, once you take social conditioning out of it.

Hullygully Thu 13-Jun-13 11:12:24

I used to command a sub, so that isn't true.

They are surprisingly easy.

mmmerangue Thu 13-Jun-13 11:12:32

Woops try again

VinegarDrinker Thu 13-Jun-13 11:13:22

"Don't we have different roles?"

IMHO only as much as any two people have different roles. I'm sure my interests, strengths and weaknesses are very different to yours. I just don't think my anatomy has anything to do with it.

Fathering children.

And watching really boring telly programs.

Hullygully Thu 13-Jun-13 11:14:18

The good thing about being in charge of a sub is all the lovely young men you can get to help you press the buttons n shit

VinegarDrinker Thu 13-Jun-13 11:14:43

Ah I am obviously misinformed.

Small Russian got there first with the point I was going to make, anyway.

mmmerangue Thu 13-Jun-13 11:14:47

I type with my fists, by the way.

*every man

*equality story

Sheshelob Thu 13-Jun-13 11:14:53

<puts serious hat on>

I don't think there is any universal male thing that women can't do. But I do think everyone is different. It just doesn't have to be along gender lines.

Buzzardbird Thu 13-Jun-13 11:14:56

Thought submariners never used the term 'sub'? So my DDF told me if ever I slipped up.

I want to be in charge of a sub.

A twelve inch BLT one.


limitedperiodonly Thu 13-Jun-13 11:15:32

I think more menz should be allowed to be as artistic and celebratory of their bodies as women.

try to ignore the intro

kim147 Thu 13-Jun-13 11:15:54

But imagine the headlines if you were a sub commander and did this

cory Thu 13-Jun-13 11:16:09

Who is this person who gets to do the allowing? How about letting adults decide for themselves- and take the risk of rejection if they are not up to the job?

MalenkyRusskyDrakonchik Thu 13-Jun-13 11:16:15

Although, interestingly (well, only to me), if you chose to fiddle around with two eggs, I believe you could splice together a baby. You couldn't with sperm because they don't carry the information. But theoretically, I think women could 'father' babies.*

*This is a random sci-fi point. This is not evil feminists annihilating menz from the reproductive process. That happens later, after we have built the yonic memorial in the shape of a giant vulva and sung a rousing chorus of Nana was a Suffragette.

Northernexile Thu 13-Jun-13 11:16:35

Only as long as you don't refer to yourself as a feminist in polite company. Couldn't be having that.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf Thu 13-Jun-13 11:16:59

Oh God, I'm not now expected to watch Top Gear, grow a moustache every November and order the hottest curry on the menu even though I won't enjoy it.

Feminism has a lot to answer for.

MalenkyRusskyDrakonchik Thu 13-Jun-13 11:17:49

I went all the way home on the train last weekend with a badge proclaiming me as a radical feminist.

I got a seat all to myself, it was lovely. smile

Bonsoir Thu 13-Jun-13 11:18:36

I think women and men should be allowed to do the same, full range, of activities. But not feel under any obligation to do so.

Sheshelob Thu 13-Jun-13 11:18:44

Lulz at menz. Well funny.

I can hardly concentrate on my work when there are menz with their penises around. And their bums. If they want to gain self esteem by showing them to me for money, then it is win-win, surely? I gets to see some bum and they get to build their self esteem, because I'll be all, "you have a nice bum. You should feel good about yourself" and shit.

limitedperiodonly Thu 13-Jun-13 11:18:49

Jar opening is something my vagina inhibits me from doing

I use mine to open them sheshelob

My hubby drives me to special classes

Buzzardbird Thu 13-Jun-13 11:18:49

My DH told me it isn't 'ladylike' to fart, I laughed so much I farted again blush

VinegarDrinker Thu 13-Jun-13 11:19:28

Malenky nah, not quite true. Sorry.

Btw what's the Drakonchik bit mean? (my russki is ochen rusty)

mmmerangue Thu 13-Jun-13 11:19:33

When I see a man's bum, I usually have to be revived with smelling salts ;)

Buzzardbird Thu 13-Jun-13 11:19:55

Glad you are not driving yourself there limited

Sheshelob Thu 13-Jun-13 11:20:27

My DH told me I want to be a man. I said that he'd given me no choice given his tits are bigger than mine.

Hullygully Thu 13-Jun-13 11:20:27

you is well right sheshelob

I always comment on a nice package and shapely arse cos the menz puff up with pride and swell

Buzzardbird Thu 13-Jun-13 11:20:39

Men have bums? hmm

Bonsoir Thu 13-Jun-13 11:20:55

Jar opening is something my pathetic muscles prevent me from doing (despite using my hands very extensively). Ergo a muscly man has a certain practical appeal as a life partner.

Sheshelob Thu 13-Jun-13 11:22:02

What's wrong with making a menz feel good about looking nice and stuff? They like to be appreciated for their bums. If you've got a bum, flaunt a bum. That's my motto in life. I'm into equal rights and stuff.

MalenkyRusskyDrakonchik Thu 13-Jun-13 11:22:18

vinegar - ooh, bugger, I was all excited when I read that. Ah well.

But could we in theory? I mean, is it categorically impossible or is it possible but no-one can be arsed to work out how?

Drakonchik means little dragon. In Russian you add diminutives to everything, which is probably all rooted in oppressing men by mocking their penis size. Or something.

mmmerangue Thu 13-Jun-13 11:22:33

Bonsoir One of these is probably more cost-effective.

cory Thu 13-Jun-13 11:22:42

Should I allow dh to iron his shirts? Or just let him go in scruffy?

Note: these are definitely the only two options on offer.

Buzzardbird Thu 13-Jun-13 11:22:48

It's gone 'poof'

Sheshelob Thu 13-Jun-13 11:23:24


You have obviously been blinkered by the politically correct and the frigid who want to stop the free expression of bums. Come and help us liberate some man bum. They loves it.

Hullygully Thu 13-Jun-13 11:23:53

this is what happened to me the other day and really really annoyed me.

was at a meeting and after the meeting was talking to a man (and not looking at his arse). Another man (man2) comes up and says, can I have a word man1? and off they go leaving me like er? what?

Then I go outside and am deep in conversation with a woman about matters from the meeting (didn't look at her arse either), and up comes man2 and joins in and we politely wait for him to leave so we can carry on...and he doesn't. Oblivious. Because women don't talk about anything important.

Buzzardbird Thu 13-Jun-13 11:24:04

"Let him go in scruffy" mmmm cory. Are you a feminist? grin

MalenkyRusskyDrakonchik Thu 13-Jun-13 11:24:21

I do like some nice man-bum.

It's why builders have to resort to cat-calling, you know, it's us oppressing them by commenting on their arses hanging out of their jeans.

Bonsoir Thu 13-Jun-13 11:24:30

mmmerangue - more cost-effective? Really? Does it earn several hundred thousand a year?

limitedperiodonly Thu 13-Jun-13 11:24:44

I bet you sat in your dungarees with your legs open malenky because you secretly want to be a man.

Buzzardbird Thu 13-Jun-13 11:26:15

"Blinkered", yes she I think that is what he calls the things he puts over my eyes when he drives me to those dogging events?

mmmerangue Thu 13-Jun-13 11:27:09

You want a muscly man who earns that much? Or you already have one?

Either way there is an element of luck involved...

I would settle for the jar opener if muscly rich man happened to be a prick, though.

Buzzardbird Thu 13-Jun-13 11:27:09

She has to sit with her legs open because her balls are massive!

TondelayoSchwarzkopf Thu 13-Jun-13 11:27:13

What's wrong with making a menz feel good about looking nice and stuff? They like to be appreciated for their bums. If you've got a bum, flaunt a bum. That's my motto in life. I'm into equal rights and stuff.

When I see a noice menz bum, I go up and bury my face in it. To show my appreciation of the human body. It's my choice, and that's what's feminism is all about.

Even if I'm in a meeting at work. Especially if I'm in a meeting at work.

ouryve Thu 13-Jun-13 11:27:58

I might have weedy lady wrists but i don't need a man to open my jars for me. I have special tools in my drawer which help me to do it all by myself.

limitedperiodonly Thu 13-Jun-13 11:28:46

I used to do that at work until HR spoiled it all

mmmerangue Thu 13-Jun-13 11:29:54

HullyGully were you aiming for serious debate with this thread?

Sparklymommy Thu 13-Jun-13 11:30:12

Ok, haven't made my points on the other thread as eloquently as maybe I could/should have!

My main gripe (not a huge one, wouldn't even call it a gripe except in the context of the discussion) with feminism is that it is responsible for making SOME women feel inadequate because they choose not to do everything men do. And if they do strive for equality doesn't necessarily make them happy.

Ok, there is only one thing I can instantly think of that a woman cannot do that a man can. But just because we can do things does that mean we should?

If feminism were just about choices and being able to have them then yes, I'm all for it. But in my experience it is another way of being judgey and sniping at others because they do not choose to live the same way, or use the choices they have. That doesn't sound right but I'm struggling to make my point! (Probably because I am wrong, but hey ho!)

I do not take offence at people thinking I am wrong and sorry if my personal images expressed in the previous thread offended people.

Xenia Thu 13-Jun-13 11:30:35

I have never met a man who can open jars as well as I can. Lots of women are pretty strong on the jar opening front.

I think we are mostly similar - human - to men and people who go on about differences tend to have some internal mental problem. We have more in common than differences.

I would certainly like the oldest child to inherit - throne and titles. I would like the legal bar which is not operated fully in practice anyway about women fighting in war removed. I would obviously like all the rules abroad like women not driving in Saudi removed whether state law or local religious law.

I certainly recommend earning a huge lot more than most men. It is much more fun.

Hullygully Thu 13-Jun-13 11:31:02


no no, it can be all mixed up, serious/humorous/rude - stops it getting heated at the very least...

VinegarDrinker Thu 13-Jun-13 11:31:35

Ah yes, obvious now blush can't believe I used to be able to write about Chekov in Russian

Either two eggs or two sperm contain the right number of chromosomes, but would be a direct clone so our body has clever ways of making sure it doesn't happen. In fact some molar pregnancies are the consequence of two sperm fertilizing an 'empty' egg.

You certainly need an oocyte to make an embryo, no doubt - it has all the "building blocks" and apparatus. But you do need some novel DNA from somewhere, i guess in theory it could be from any cell as long as it was genetically different. So you still need two "parents".

OddSockMonster Thu 13-Jun-13 11:32:31

Well done for not looking at arses Hully, are you sure man2 isn't just a bit odd?

Hullygully Thu 13-Jun-13 11:32:45

sparkly, I appreciate you turning up and being goodhumoured.

I do think that if women feel judged and looked down on by other women, then possibly they are misunderstanding feminism.

mmmerangue Thu 13-Jun-13 11:32:54

That good then grin

I can do both, I reckon.
Multitasking 'n' that.

limitedperiodonly Thu 13-Jun-13 11:33:44

Ok, there is only one thing I can instantly think of that a woman cannot do that a man can.

Only one? I feel so inadequate now. And you're the one accusing people of being judgey.


Hullygully Thu 13-Jun-13 11:33:51

oddsock, yes, he is a bit odd, good point. But it was still an absolute unaware assumption. It's a bit of a time warp where I live at the mo.

VinegarDrinker Thu 13-Jun-13 11:34:58

I really think that anyone who feels inadequate about their own choices in life has to realise that is down to them and not the fault of "feminism".

Sheshelob Thu 13-Jun-13 11:35:59

Tondelayo gringringringrin

<roared and woke the dog>

OddSockMonster Thu 13-Jun-13 11:36:36

Maybe he just wanted to talk to man1 about you (look at your arse from a discrete distance).

Hullygully Thu 13-Jun-13 11:36:40

yy that was very funny Tondelayo.

Hullygully Thu 13-Jun-13 11:37:06

No, they went into a corner and whispered together

Blistory Thu 13-Jun-13 11:37:20

Isn't it sad that the question even needed to be asked ?

We don't have equality. We should have equality.

But then apparently it's not about equality but choice which conveniently ignores the fact that you can't have choice unless you first have equality.

Hullygully Thu 13-Jun-13 11:37:22

Perhaps he had a problem with his hose

Dackyduddles Thu 13-Jun-13 11:37:42

Hmmm should we allow men to do everything women do?

Hullygully Thu 13-Jun-13 11:38:30

deffo, let em strip and wash up and knit baby clothes

go menz

Popcornia Thu 13-Jun-13 11:38:52

I don't even use special tools to open jars. I just pop the jar upside down, slip the edge of a teaspoon under the rim of the lid, and prise it ever-so-gently outwards until I hear the hiss of the seal breaking. Then you can just re-right the jar and open the lid, simple as you like.

Mind you, when DH is around I often get him to crank the lid off with his big square manly hands, but that's because I am totally checking out his hands/bum and it's purely to get my rocks off. At work, I open my own friggin' jars.

quoteunquote Thu 13-Jun-13 11:40:37

Should women be allowed to do everything men do?

Public information announcement

I have never ask permission to do anything and never will.

By the way what is it that you think women can't do?

MalenkyRusskyDrakonchik Thu 13-Jun-13 11:40:43

sparkly - I don't know if it helps, but do you mean feeling inadequate because you feel stuff you do isn't seen as being as valuable as, say, being a woman in the boardroom or whatever? Because if so, I have a lot of sympathy for that. I do think people still don't value work like bringing up children, keeping a house clean, etc. etc. But it's work and someone has to do it, and ideally do it well.

I do think MN feminism is by and large in agreement about that, though.

Sheshelob Thu 13-Jun-13 11:41:15

Hi sparkly

It's good you've come over, as the more you write, the clearer it is what the issue is.

Feminism isn't about dividing and judging other women, although I will hold my hand up and admit to judging people who willingly reinforce the patriarchy as a political stance. But that isn't so itch a facet of fem as my judgey, fighty personality.

I think it is extremely unhelpful to reject feminism if you are a woman, as you are helping perpetuate the very stereotypes that undermine the great things that feminism has done and is still doing for women.

Stay awhile. You'll see that we are all individuals who just happen to have an interest in speaking openly about women's rights. And we are also quite funny.

<smug generalisation>

<struggles to open jar>

mmmerangue Thu 13-Jun-13 11:41:17

I think feminism is given a bad name by the media, and a few very loud voices who believe if you are not out on the street beating men with placards that say 'my uterus something something' on them every weekend, you are not doing your part for womankind.

The 'feminazis' much as I hate that word.

Most feminists wouldn't title themselves that, they just believe everyone can live equally. And do what they want, and strive for what they want. My parents both taught strong feminist principles, as did my partners, but if I said to my dad or MIL 'are you feminist?' they would say no.

HighBrows Thu 13-Jun-13 11:42:07

On the opening jars front you just need to have good grip rather than strength. I've never met a jar I can't open!


HighBrows Thu 13-Jun-13 11:43:42

I have never ask permission to do anything and never will.

Couldn't agree more.

Blistory Thu 13-Jun-13 11:44:08

Men can wear what they want without wondering if someone might accuse them of inviting rape.

I'd quite like that freedom.

VinegarDrinker Thu 13-Jun-13 11:45:22

I've held up many signs with "my uterus ....."or similar in my time. Never used them to hit men with, either metaphorically or literally. In fact DH and DS are usually there protesting about whatever it is, too.

Blistory Thu 13-Jun-13 11:45:36

I don't ask for permission either but that still doesn't mean that I get what I want or what I expect or what I deserve.

meddie Thu 13-Jun-13 11:48:09

I cant possibly comment on this thread as my tits are distracting me.....

LadyBeagleEyes Thu 13-Jun-13 11:49:50

I don't have a man, but I have a tall son who can reach the highest kitchen shelves without having to stand on a chair.
And I get a man in to cut my grass.
I could to this myself but he only charges a tenner and I CBA.

MoominMammasHandbag Thu 13-Jun-13 11:50:28

I run the hot tap over those pesky jars and they open a treat. There's nothing you can do with brawn that you can't do with brains.
And I'm a feminist who was a SAHM for a long time. I certainly never felt I was letting the sisterhood down. It's about choice innit? And equality. And not about wanting to be a man.

ilovechips Thu 13-Jun-13 11:50:58

Hullygully are you in the UK? I didn't think the Royal Navy had had a female Commander of a submarine as yet - will stand corrected though...

gordyslovesheep Thu 13-Jun-13 11:51:42

i have hormones - ergo I don't have the ability to form an opinion - sorry <goes back to thinking about embroidery and kittens>

I all honesty - I just don't walk around the world labeling things, including tasks and jobs, as 'male' or 'female'

mmmerangue Thu 13-Jun-13 11:52:32

Vinegar, you're doing it right. As are 99% of feminists. But like I say the media concentrate on the loudest and most disagreeable voices.

This did my tits in too;

A few weeks ago and old schoolfriend parked her car in a stupid place. Next to a bus stop on top of a hill where it is not easy for traffic to pass. I'm pretty sure there is a single yellow.

A female bus driver scraped her nice new car, phoned the police, got it all sorted out, is paying the £600 insurance or whatever. Taking full responsibility

Said old schoolfriend started ranting on facebook about 'bloody woman drivers'.

Someone else having already mentioned she shouldn't have parked there (perfectly good car park across the road, too hmm), I told her It was sod all to do with being a woman, and as a woman herself I was disgusted she would make such comments.

She deleted me. Good Riddance.

Hullygully Thu 13-Jun-13 11:53:00

ilovechips - I am the first. I am forging the path, although I don't really want other women as then I'd have to share the little matelots.

Sparklymommy Thu 13-Jun-13 11:55:01

Ok, I am about to do something I may regret...

I am going to accept that I am wrong. My earlier posts regarding my image of feminism is wrong, and dates back to the seventies and pro active feminists in jeans with no bras.

I am therefore going to change my previous statement and say that I am a feminist. Just not a radical one.

I accept women's rights to have the choice and to be entitled to it being recognised and rewarded accordingly in an equal way to men.

MadameJosephine Thu 13-Jun-13 11:55:21

popcornia I use the upside down teaspoon under the rim truck to open jars too. I like to think this proves that it requires a brain rather than a penis to open a jar grin

DP occasi refers to me as Millie Tant

MadameJosephine Thu 13-Jun-13 11:56:01


VinegarDrinker Thu 13-Jun-13 11:56:07

I'd love it if parenting and other unpaid caring roles were valued more highly by the whole of society, regardless of the gender of whoever it is doing it.

I've only joined MN in the last 6 months or do, but the extent of casual acceptance of ingrained m/f gender roles even in young women on here really depresses me on a regular basis. Often it does get challenged but not always.

Hullygully Thu 13-Jun-13 11:56:33

<claps sparkly>


Next week: radicalism

Sheshelob Thu 13-Jun-13 12:01:08


I knew you had it in you, sparkly.

Feminism has many shades, but we are all here, failing to open jars with our vaginas and secretly wanting to be Brian Blessed.

Sparklymommy Thu 13-Jun-13 12:02:15

I think my previous views on feminism came from feeling my choice to be SAHM flew in the face of feminism... I see now this is not the case. And have enjoyed all the joking around on this thread!

I too can open most jars without the need for a man. It's pesky bottles of champagne that have me gazummpt. And mainly due to the corks popping being a bit scary! I don't want to break anything!

ImTooHecsyForYourParty Thu 13-Jun-13 12:03:32

I don't think there is anything on this earth that someone has the right to say that you may not do because you are female.

can you think of anything that it would be reasonable to say ok, you are physically capable of doing this, but we are banning you from doing it because you are a woman.

I can't think of a thing.

Sheshelob Thu 13-Jun-13 12:04:11

<flings arm in air>

I know this one!

The key to champagne bottles is to hold the cork and turn the bottle. The cork doesn't fly anywhere.

Next week: how to get caviar out of mink.

Blistory Thu 13-Jun-13 12:04:48

Sparkly, wanna join me in the liberal feminism camp ?

Sparklymommy Thu 13-Jun-13 12:05:01

Very interested in the possibility of being able to reproduce without the need for a man. Scary thought that!

Buzzardbird Thu 13-Jun-13 12:05:24

Is it acceptable to shorten 'submarine' to 'sub' now then Hully?

GrumpyKat Thu 13-Jun-13 12:05:28

I AM Brian Blessed. And a feminist. All my jars are open in a line.

VinegarDrinker Thu 13-Jun-13 12:07:12

I think that's one of the biggest myths about feminism - that it is incompatible with being a SAHM.

I think what does fly in the face of feminism is individuals and society assuming that someone will want to take on a certain role in terms of childcare or paid work just because of their gender.

Buzzardbird Thu 13-Jun-13 12:07:58

Gordans alive!

VinegarDrinker Thu 13-Jun-13 12:08:30

Btw are women 'allowed' in front line combat now btw or am I misinformed about that too?

limitedperiodonly Thu 13-Jun-13 12:09:03

You'll never regret that sparkly

I'm wearing jeans and no bra as I type.

I offer that mental image up to certain posters for nothing.

Blistory Thu 13-Jun-13 12:11:11

I agree about the myths.

There's a distinction between pointing out that a particular stance isn't a feminist one and telling a woman not to do something which seems to be at the root of a lot of the conflict. Feminism is often mistaken as women telling women what they can and cannot do when often it is simply pointing out that a particular action isn't feminist.

LeGavrOrf Thu 13-Jun-13 12:11:45

Don't buy shit in jars.

What do they sell in jars which is essential, really? Pickled eggs?

LeGavrOrf Thu 13-Jun-13 12:12:29

Still lots of roles in the armed forces which are barred to women, that includes front line combat.

mmmerangue Thu 13-Jun-13 12:12:33

MIL, SAHM for most of her children's lives at least, has one of the most equal and woman-forward mindsets I know of, and one of the most equal relationships with her husband.

They spend most of the time ripping the piss out of each other, truth be told.

VinegarDrinker Thu 13-Jun-13 12:16:50

Bit tangential, but I am a huge advocate of more shared parenting so I guess on a personal level I can't imagine being a SAHM as it would mean my DH having to work more hours and denying him the equal parenting relationship he currently enjoys as a result of being at home with DS two weekdays (actually more than me).

But that's not to say I don't support anyone who does choose that path, as long as it is a choice.

(I'm sure you'll sleep better at night knowing you have my blessing wink)

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit Thu 13-Jun-13 12:17:49

Pickled beetroot and pickled onion. Both essentials.

Is it anti feminist to wear a bra? I's knock out small children like skittles if I left my boobs to roam free.

SoupDragon Thu 13-Jun-13 12:17:52

Are we not equal but different?

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive.

I think women and men should be free to do whatever they wish.

There are things I can't do because I am not as strong as someone else - not necessarily a man. That doesn't mean I am not their equal.

Sheshelob Thu 13-Jun-13 12:19:31

Limited grin

menz would love that. They'd prefer you doing the dishes and wearing a noice suspender belt, though. And not typing but dancing. Coz it's your choice and they want to support that.

throckenholt Thu 13-Jun-13 12:19:52

Don't buy shit in jars.

good advice that grin

I am going to adopt it as my motto.

digerd Thu 13-Jun-13 12:20:58

What I can't stand with the men I know, is this elitist male fraternity bond and think they are more intelligent than women and far more important even though all are terrified of my 81 year-old nasty piece of work battleaxe female neighbour. grin.

VinegarDrinker Thu 13-Jun-13 12:21:03

I can't live without pesto or capers sad

cupcake78 Thu 13-Jun-13 12:21:36

"Allowed"???? Seriously that one word is far worse.

ilovechips Thu 13-Jun-13 12:28:01

The Royal Navy announced in 2011 that women will be allowed to serve on submarines from late 2013...I am having trouble seeing how a female can already have had time to say they used to be in command of a submarine...

Bonsoir Thu 13-Jun-13 12:30:16

VinegarDrinker - I just pasta tonno e capperi for lunch. Both tuna and capers came in jars.

Fortunately DSS1 is home revising to open them grin

Sparklymommy Thu 13-Jun-13 12:30:32

Pickled eggs, onions, gherkins, beet root... All essential. As is marmite.

Soooooo... Must I now throw away my stockings and corsets :/ ...

DioneTheDiabolist Thu 13-Jun-13 12:30:42

I am not allowed to do gardening. This is quite problematic as I am a single mum with a front & back garden which need mown, weeded etc.sad. I think that the govt should introduce some sort of employment scheme whereby men come to my home on a regular basis and do it for me.

I can't afford a gardener.sad

limitedperiodonly Thu 13-Jun-13 12:30:53

Actually she I do need to do the dishes. Excuse me while I slip into something a little more uncomfortable.

Sheshelob Thu 13-Jun-13 12:33:38

Not at all, sparkly. That is your business.

There is no dress code to this feminist lark. Although, I do wear my husband's sweaters when I am cold.

<wonders if this makes me Brian Blessed yet>

mmmerangue Thu 13-Jun-13 12:34:16

The Man just came to check my gas appliances.

He stucks his bum at me. Well he was reaching for a radiator and I had to look, I nearly fainted. It had 'bawbags' written on his boxers. How to offend my female sensibilities!


ifyourehoppyandyouknowit Thu 13-Jun-13 12:36:08

At the weekend I helped fit a kitchen while my husband looked after DS. I used a drill and special measuring contraptions and everything and only fucked up one door all the while in possession of a uterus.

I did get told that I was making DS 'look like a girl' at soft play for putting him in a pink t-shirt. I wondered if it was meant to be an insult? Whatevs, when he finally grows some hair I'm going to put it in pigtails and plait it to see if people froth at the mouth or their heads explode from the confusion.

Sheshelob Thu 13-Jun-13 12:36:57

Bawbags?! He was asking for it, dressed like that.

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit Thu 13-Jun-13 12:37:05

I don't do washing up though, it's too rough on my delicate lady hands.

Sheshelob Thu 13-Jun-13 12:38:30

My DNeph loves heels, scarves and bags. We bought him some clicky plastic heels and clip on earrings for his birthday. His dad ran them over with the car "by accident".


Sheshelob Thu 13-Jun-13 12:39:44

Right. I'm off to pick up my DS. There are jars to open and feelings to be suppressed.


mmmerangue Thu 13-Jun-13 12:39:45

Sheshelob - Too right. I nearly knocked him out and dragged him to my cave.

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit Thu 13-Jun-13 12:39:53

I bought my Dneph some Disney Fairies for his birthday, DH was a bit hmm about it, I nipped that one in the bud. DS will play with whatever he bloody well wants.

Was at a meeting and after the meeting was talking to a man (and not looking at his arse). Another man (man2) comes up and says, can I have a word man1? and off they go leaving me like er? what?


In all fairness though, I have had this done to me many a time by Alpha Females as well in both professional and social contexts, leaving me standing there going shock shock shock

TheYamiOfYawn Thu 13-Jun-13 12:49:17

Women should probably nit model cock rings, take part in medical trials for illnesses affecting only men, work in a male only safe space, write articles in men's issues or be sperm donors.

LadyBeagleEyes Thu 13-Jun-13 12:50:14

Anyway, where's Ilovemyself who inadvertently started this thread?
I can't give an opinion till I know 'wot he thinks.

Sparklymommy Thu 13-Jun-13 12:50:43

Both my sons do ballet. Ds1 asked for a tutu! He frequently tries his sisters on!!!!

Ds2 went to preschool with bunches once cos Dd1 thought he looked cute!

EldritchCleavage Thu 13-Jun-13 12:53:31

'a female' for God's sake. A female what?
Adult humans are called 'women'. Or wimmin. But not 'females'. Allow it, brer.

Eyesunderarock Thu 13-Jun-13 12:53:52

There is always a lot of stuff that needs doing, and stuff that people want to do.
Everyone should be allowed equal access to everything, limited only by their personal talents, abilities and skills and not their gender.

E.g. hedgetrimming is a man-job in this house because I am a short arse.
If I was 6', then it wouldn't be as much of a problem, but it is.
Likewise driving is a woman-job because I'm the only one who can drive.

See, following on from the couple of posts above about boys in pink/fairies etc. I would be interested to get some opinions on this. Firstly - <disclaimer> I love my mum to pieces and she is kind and thoughtful and has been a wonderful help to me over the years...but....

I bought my 5 yo nephew a hot pink tshirt with a lovely khaki trim collar. She told my sister not to put him in it because boys should Never Wear Pink. Sister obliged because pink makes boys gay. angry

Mum also tells me that I am not a "real woman" because I do all the jobs around the house. I just moved and I hung the pictures, fixed the wobbly loo seat, put together the beds etc. She tells me men don't like women like me, I'm not a feminine real woman shock

So, is this just her age/generation? She's 69. I must admit it really gets to me to hear this kind of stuff from her and I find myself not saying certain things as I know the reaction I will get will be as above.

<sorry to derail (again)>

Owllady Thu 13-Jun-13 12:56:02

I think i would get a bit bored of talking about electronics all day and moaning about people from work whilst eating pork scratchings
I can't base the whole world on my immediate surroundings

Eyesunderarock Thu 13-Jun-13 12:58:09

Well, my mum is a decade older than yours and she'd agree with you.
So not all older people are stuck in gender-orientated mindsets.
In the same way that not all younger women are about image and plastic surgery and TOWIE.

Buzzardbird Thu 13-Jun-13 12:58:15

Think hully was winding us up ilovechips. My lovely dad would have gone mad at the mention of "subs"

Hullygully Thu 13-Jun-13 12:58:54

tool old

It's not her generation - my mum does everything. It's her, just smile sweetly and say Yes dear and carry on.

And punch your sister in the face

Owllady Thu 13-Jun-13 12:59:04

what is a sub? confused

I am trying very hard to get down wiv the kids but I am failing miserably

Hullygully Thu 13-Jun-13 12:59:53

sub(marine) of which it is doubted I am commander <shrug>

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit Thu 13-Jun-13 13:00:24

Oh so that's how people end up catching Teh Gay? It's the clothes you put them in when they're too little to give a crap! Man, would love to read the journal that research was published in.

I could never get bored of pork scratchings. <feels very dirty>

Yes I suppose I did generalise a tad with the "age" thing blush

I need to perfect the smile and nod smile and nod I think.

motherinferior Thu 13-Jun-13 13:01:49

I will tell you all free gratis and for nothing I just had a man kneeling on my desk shock

It was the window cleaner and he was a bit err smelly, but I felt you should know.

I am not particularly good at doing Big Muscly Stuff on account of being notorious shortarse.

Sparklymommy Thu 13-Jun-13 13:02:03

toooldforglitter both my sons had pink t-shirts with the slogan "tough enough to wear pink" emblazoned across them. When they were outgrown there was a damn near riot from family and friends wanting to get their hands on them for their own boys!

Next time you get that attitude regarding the colour pink firmly remind them that pink was a colour brought in in the 1800's primarily for BOYS. Not girls.

sparklymommy - see I did come back at mum/sister with the facts about pink having been boys colour etc. etc. They both told me I was blatantly wrong! (I know i'm not!)

Want2bSupermum Thu 13-Jun-13 13:06:26

Hully I love your question, 'Should women be allowed to do everything men do?'

As a women I have noticed in the workplace that women wait for permission to do something while men rarely ask for permission, will do what they think is right and get heaps of praise.

I think it is important for women to be women but also understand they are working in a system created by men. If you want do something you don't need to ask permission. Just do it.

The armed forces are a different case and I find it interesting when talking to my brother. There are women in the SAS and they are often beyond enemy lines. He would like to see more women within the Army asking for front line experience. Obviously I batted him over the head and told him that no one was going to ask for something they have been told isn't an option so he now makes a point to ask every women he commands if they want to move into a front line role. A couple of have said yes and my brother has worked with them to get them into the front line roles that are available. With my brother it was important that I challenge him to change his behaviour.

Based on conversations with my brother I think the concern is that the physical requirements are too tough for many men and if allowed into front line roles there would be a female equivalent physical requirements which were lesser. My brother has said that the UK needs to look to Israel to see how women can effectively operate on the front line, however, politically that isn't going to happen.

Eyesunderarock Thu 13-Jun-13 13:06:43

'I need to perfect the smile and nod smile and nod I think.'

Except when you want to feed her a line in order to watch her get all aeriated and flustered and filled with cognative dissonance.
Hully gives lessons in that, she has a black belt in it. grin

mmmerangue Thu 13-Jun-13 13:08:12

I know a boy why Caught The Gay from sitting on a swing after a boy in a pink T-shirt had sat on it.

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit Thu 13-Jun-13 13:10:47

mmmerangue <clutches pearls> THE HORROR!

mmmerangue Thu 13-Jun-13 13:12:59

He lives in the 1960's, by the way.

quoteunquote Thu 13-Jun-13 13:17:27

I guess I was very lucky, as both my parents were feminists, I never heard the concept that I couldn't do something because I was female, until far to late for me to entertain it as a concept, I just laughed when anyone tried to mention it, in conjunction with anything that involved me.

I (and siblings) was rased globe trotting in many different cultures, My mother from a long line of feminists, was climbing routes that no men (some have yet to be climbed by anyone else) ever had before she had me, (she climbed pregnant and with me strapped into the top of her rucksack as a baby and toddler), both parents are scientists.

I chopped wood, rebuilt engines, constructed, engineered, drove tractors,extreme sport, given total unquestioned freedom, science , maths education , live off the land and self-sufficiency ,solo sailing, solo walking/climbing before I was ten, never once was told or shown by a parent that there were gender roles in life, my father did everything except breast feed.

Being as I can design, build from foundations up,((I operate a JCB), wire, plumb, joinery, plaster, stone and block work), a house, lift more than my own body weight (5 10 and built like BSH) above my head, do more one hand pull ups than my age, carry three bags of sand up a ladder, I don't think I will be asking any of my crew to open a jar any day soon.

I feel such a failure that my children are going to be faced with the same level of limited tedious stupidity thinking that the generations before have, it is so fucking boring.

I have a DH who has no concept of gender roles, my children do everything, my daughter as happy on a chop saw as her brother are in the kitchen,

Only fuck feminists (male and female), save having to put up with boring tedious stupid thinking in your life.

Buzzardbird Thu 13-Jun-13 14:00:08

My apologies Hully I thought you were having a joke. Women on Submarines eh? Whatever next? grin

quoteunquote Thu 13-Jun-13 14:18:48

read the replies this woman gets when she asks about becoming a SAT diver

here it touches on,

*As a commercial diving company owner, I have employed one female diver, doing a civils inspection job in a dock culvert. The only criteria I would apply are*:
Can the diver effectively and safely rescue a large, fully kitted diver from the water as a standby diver on a potentially hazardous civils site or as surface crew
Can the diver do this job as well as anyone else.
Is the diver strong enough and fit enough to do the job in general ( *lifting & setting up kit from container/van, use of heavy tools/rigging).
Does the kit fit the diver*.
*Do I have to spend any extra money on this diver for safety or welfare?
If the answers to these questions are not favourable*... Well there are loads of divers on the beach waiting for work. These are requirements I would expect to be met by ALL divers (I have run off plenty of male divers for various reasons) and I see no sense in working around them for the sake of brownie points for positive discrimination.

Not many companies if any will allow women to go into a saturation chamber with men.

Hullygully Thu 13-Jun-13 14:31:11

<swoons at quoteunquote>

We need people like you on the sub

Xenia Thu 13-Jun-13 14:39:00

quotre, indeed. I hope mumnetters look at how they bring up daughters. Have yo bought your daughter a penknife? Have you shown her how to make a bow and arrow? Has she made fire outside with you? Not surprisingly in their 20s my daughters are doing pretty well in careers not in small part because of their feminist upbringing.

(I have also this week started building works (being done for me I am afraid mostly by men... but never mind) on my island and a lot of the skills I use there are fun for all humans, not just men. A few pictures although only showing a very small wall so far for the one room hovel... )

I am another one whose father was very involved. He hoovered the house in the 60s. With the babies who were bottle fed he did all the night feeds to give my mother a rest. He put us to bed and did stories each night - my parents tended to split up so one did the girls and the other our brother. It is not true that in the 60s where were no men in feminist marriages chipping in as much as women and being fair. They certainly existed.

Hullygully Thu 13-Jun-13 14:43:18

I forgot you had an island Xenia, would you mind awfully if I visited in the sub?

motherinferior Thu 13-Jun-13 14:44:21

No, Xenia, I haven't brought my daughters knives or made fires with them. I have however brought them up with the values of a dyed in the wool lifelong lefty feminist who spent her youth Objecting To Things, and have produced two lefty feminists in my turn so really I'm not worried.

motherinferior Thu 13-Jun-13 14:45:01

It is possible to find a photo online of DD2 aged two wearing a Fawcett Society T-shirt grin in the FS mag.

motherinferior Thu 13-Jun-13 14:45:32

I can't come on your sub, Hully, as am lefty peacenik type who spent youth Objecting To Subs.

LadyBeagleEyes Thu 13-Jun-13 14:46:37

Xenia has an island?
Who knew?

Hullygully Thu 13-Jun-13 14:46:48

My daughter has a penknife and has made fires!

She also made a coffee table from scratch when she was 10. You wouldn't want to sit near it as all the nails stick out and it's a bit lethal and she's not very interested in finishing things properly...but she did it all on her own with grim determination.

Her and her brother also made a two storey tree house together using power tools.

Can I have an award of some sort?

Hullygully Thu 13-Jun-13 14:47:48

You'd like my sub, we burn patchouli and sing songs of an evening.

piprabbit Thu 13-Jun-13 14:48:33

Who's going to be doing the allowing? Will there be some sort of committee? Will I be allowed to join it?

burberryqueen Thu 13-Jun-13 14:49:57

yes my daughter has a penknife and makes fires - but wouldnt that be v dangerous in a submarine?

motherinferior Thu 13-Jun-13 14:50:31

Given that the first Women's Liberation Conference wasn't held till 1968 and the Equal Pay Act for around a decade later, I think it's fair to say that the 1960s were not overall a time of great gender equality.

It's only by the Struggles of Wimmin, sisters, that we are where we are today.

Bonsoir Thu 13-Jun-13 14:54:55

motherinferior - you do realise that women in the UK were better off, in terms of educational attainment and career opportunities, before WW2 than in the 1950s and 1960s? Progression has not been linear.

Hullygully Thu 13-Jun-13 14:56:18

I have just been studying the suffragists and suffragettes with ds for his gcse and no they absolutely were not bonsoir.

BIWI Thu 13-Jun-13 14:56:24

I hope there is plenty of bunting and lots of cupcakes in your sub, Hully. So as we wimmin will find it appropriately welcome.

Hullygully Thu 13-Jun-13 14:57:18

I really don't get cupcakes, all claggy and sickly. So no, we don't have those. We have wasabi peas.

BeCool Thu 13-Jun-13 14:58:31

Who is it exactly who will be allowing women to do (or not do) stuff?

I'm not about to start seeking permission now thanks!

(thank you for the jar opening tips & I very much agree with Holding the cork, and turning the bottle! It is the proper way.)

They're fucking FAIRY CAKES.

I don't know what all this cupcake bullshit is all about but I don't fucking well like it.

Hullygully Thu 13-Jun-13 15:01:07

but heavier and sweeter than fairy cakes with thick sickly icing on...yukorama

Hullygully Thu 13-Jun-13 15:01:37

It's been going on so long too. Weird.

What about bride cakes of cupcakes? <shudder>

Hullygully Thu 13-Jun-13 15:01:49

wedding cakes even

FunnysInLaJardin Thu 13-Jun-13 15:05:17

yes they should

kickassangel Thu 13-Jun-13 15:05:32

Anyone who doesn't believe the blue/pink thing should watch 101 Dalmations and note the collars used.

<late to the party>

FunnysInLaJardin Thu 13-Jun-13 15:09:30

you know you could start a little business making cupcakes and sell them. You could advertise on FB and call your business Cutie Cakes or somesuch. I don't think anyone does anything like that at the mo

BIWI Thu 13-Jun-13 15:10:00

I hate the whole cupcakes/fairy cakes/bunting getallwomenbackinthekitchen ethos that seems to be so prevalent.

I up for wasabi peas. Can we serve vindaloo as well?

BIWI Thu 13-Jun-13 15:10:18

Actually why am I asking? We will serve vindaloo. <adopts manly stance>

Bonsoir Thu 13-Jun-13 15:10:36

I rather doubt the GCSE syllabus propaganda will give a very accurate view, HullyGully smile.

Many more women went to university before WW2 than in the 1950s and 60s. And had professional careers.

ComposHat Thu 13-Jun-13 15:12:55

My sister was taught to use a penknife and make fires.... she has gone on to enjoy a succesful career as an arsonist and a mugger.

burberryqueen Thu 13-Jun-13 15:13:25

yeh fucking cupcakes and bunting is so......retro but not in a good way.

burberryqueen Thu 13-Jun-13 15:14:18

grin @ ComposHat, great nick too

Hullygully Thu 13-Jun-13 15:16:04

GCSE syllabus propaganda


Hullygully Thu 13-Jun-13 15:16:49

My cook is one of those Thai women handy with a hose so it's mostly Pad Thai and red veg curry.

FunnysInLaJardin Thu 13-Jun-13 15:18:32

lol Compo See that is what happens when you strive for equality.

Xenia Thu 13-Jun-13 15:28:21

The sub may indeed visit the island. In fact in the 1600s on of my ancestors (possibly) was in that area near Panama. He was a pirate. There is possibly treasure. We could use the sub to help find it perhaps. Lost Treasure of Lima (much more fun than cupcakes which keep women depressed and fat and are perhaps even a tool for contain and control women). There is a picture on my link of the crabs they caught to eat on my island earlier this week.

We have never had as many women graduating as now inthe UK (it's up to 60% of graduates who are female) so although there was indeed a blip in the 50s when men back from war thrust women back out of their jobs, nurseries closed and men pinched the jobs, it is a fairly steady improvement of women's career and legal rights since the 1880s really.

Hullygully Thu 13-Jun-13 15:30:20


<consults charts and replots sub's course>

How long have you had your island and what are you building?

The crabs looked nice. Are there coconuts?

reelingintheyears Thu 13-Jun-13 16:07:22

yeh fucking cupcakes and bunting is so......retro but not in a good way

Hahaha...wait til MarmaladeTwatkins sees this. grin

notanyanymore Thu 13-Jun-13 16:10:03

how about men having the same rights as women? ...such as being 'allowed' to pick their own bloody pants up!!!! DP seems to think he is implicitly prohibited from this, i am trying to prove to him how open minded i am and that really, i have no problem with him picking up his own dirty skegs even if he is man!

reelingintheyears Thu 13-Jun-13 16:13:21

We had crabs at the weekend hmm

They were very tasty.

But they couldn't dress themselves so i did it for them.

BIWI Thu 13-Jun-13 16:18:55


Bloody lazy those crabs.

LEMisdisappointed Thu 13-Jun-13 16:19:41

My boss wouldn't let me handle a particular substance at work as its "teratogenic" (affecting fetal development) properties were unknown - it was something pretty nasty, because i was a woman - i'm rather glad he insisted on doing this for me, i was early stage pregnant and didn't know!!

I don't think it is a case of being ""allowed" to do things, but men and women are different and are generally better suited to certain types of tasks, however these are not necessarilly the roles set out by society.

BIWI Thu 13-Jun-13 16:23:02

Which specific tasks would they be, LEM?

LEMisdisappointed Thu 13-Jun-13 16:23:15

I fucking hate cupcakes
I fucking hate bunting
put them both together - <boak> unless you mix them up a bit wink

reelingintheyears Thu 13-Jun-13 16:24:25

What tasks are men and women each better suited to?

Examples please,DP is a qualified LD nurse,his own Dad was embarrassed by it and didn't tell people when he qualified because his workmates would think DP was a poof and this would have reflected on him.

When DP years later retrained as an electrician this was VERY GOOD and could be bragged about.

Wanker is FoL.

LEMisdisappointed Thu 13-Jun-13 16:25:29

Biwi - i knew someone would ask that, but i can't for the life of me think of anything grin

But we ARE different, we are - i don't want to be like a man, i want to be like me. I tend to do all the fixing in the house, but if its a heavy job i have to get DP to help and im actually quite strong.

reelingintheyears Thu 13-Jun-13 16:26:11

I love bunting,nothing wrong with some pretty bunting fluttering around my tent flaps.

LEMisdisappointed Thu 13-Jun-13 16:27:18

I don't know what to say to that reeling!

BIWI Thu 13-Jun-13 16:27:23

Well of course I'm different from a man.* But what on earth difference does that make to the kind of tasks I can undertake? You seriously, seriously have to back up those kinds of assertions with examples if you're going to make them.

*I'm also different from a lot of other women. Does that mean they are better suited to some tasks than me?

reelingintheyears Thu 13-Jun-13 16:27:46

Heavy jobs often require two people LEM.

Even when men are doing them.

FobblyWoof Thu 13-Jun-13 16:30:09

Being equal and being different are two separate things. Women and men are different. I have a vagina and DP has a penis. That makes us different. It doesn't make us unequal.

Having a penis or having a vagina has no basis on whether someone is better at something than someone of the opposite gender (obvious exclusions like breast feeding and producing sperm aside). DP isn't better suited to working on a car, working in general <insert what's seen as a typical male 'role' here> because he's a man. The same with me.

And where does allowing come in to play? Whose role is it to decide what I can and cannot do because I happen to be a woman? Fair enough to stop me driving a car if I don't have a license, or flying a plane because I'm not a pilot, but there is nothing that I can't do that a male can and vice versa (again, apart from I can't produce sperm etc)

FobblyWoof Thu 13-Jun-13 16:44:46

Also meant to add I very, very much consider myself a feminist and I'm also a SAHM. The two can go hand in hand very easily.

As a family we made a choice on what would be best for us. My DP would've supported a desicion for me to go back to work if it wasn't best financially because he respects my right to choose what I want to do with my life. There were a lot of things to consider when making the choice, finances, personal goals etc and we reached the conclusion together-- something I wouldn't have had much of a choice about 30 years ago. Similarly we wouldn't have been able to explore the option of DP becoming a SAHD (something we thought about) back then either as, judgement aside, women were paid so much less than men it wouldn't have been a viable option.

jellybeans Thu 13-Jun-13 16:46:50

Are we not equal but different?

^ I agree with this although it is not politically correct it seems!

BIWI Thu 13-Jun-13 16:51:13

Why, jellybeans? Who says it's not politically correct?

ChunkyPickle Thu 13-Jun-13 16:57:55

Taking a running jump on 'generally better suited to certain types of tasks'!

People trot that one out when there's some boring task they'd prefer someone else did for them, for instance DP 'I'm no good at changing the bedsheets' - despite him being a burly 6 footer, me a stumpy pregnant woman, and the bed being a super king. No, it's not that you're no good, it's that it's a rubbish job and you don't want to do it.

People are different, people are lazy, and society unfortunately seems to be more inclined to let men and women get away with certain lazinesses (men: housework, kids, women... I dunno... something though, probably involving giggling) - nothing to do with their ability to do what ever it is at all in my opinion.

EldritchCleavage Thu 13-Jun-13 16:59:29

Equal but different was a slogan of the apartheid era wasn't it? Or was it Jim Crow America? So it has undertones of 'not really equal, just paying lip service to the idea'.

I agree about task avoidance. In fact I'd argue that men are biologically better adapted to cleaning, longer reach, tits don't get in the way of a cross the body hoover action, less likely to have flicky hair to get in their eyes...

p.s. I would rather not have nose hair/ear hair so can I leave out that bit of equality please.

limitedperiodonly Thu 13-Jun-13 17:35:06

You can't say anything these days biwi

Oh wait a minute...

limitedperiodonly Thu 13-Jun-13 17:36:59

p.s. I would rather not have nose hair/ear hair so can I leave out that bit of equality please

I take it you're well under 50 then, chaz wink

motherinferior Thu 13-Jun-13 17:39:46

I would quite like, please, to be unsuited to hoovering on account of my bosoms getting in the way. In fact all housework.

Also can I be let off sorting out childcare issues on account of having a pretty little brain that can't focus on such complicated things?

That'll do nicely. Though having just passed 50 I am waiting for bearditude.

mmmerangue Thu 13-Jun-13 17:39:58

DP 'I'm no good at changing the bedsheets'

My DP insists on changing the Duvet cover for me cos he pissed himself laughing watching me try to do it once it takes me twice as long as it does him. I do the sheet and pillows then leave the Duvet for him when he gets in from work.

burberryqueen Thu 13-Jun-13 17:44:20

I live on a half completed housing estate and once i was at my kitchen window watching four men 'raising the roof beams' together and although I would be the first to jump on any tosser who tells me I cannot drive as well as him or read a map etc., I honestly did wonder how four women would have managed that job in that time. perhaps the washing up fumes had got to me....

Less than a decade away and getting closer by the minute confused

I await with trepidation my first chin hair.

Wuldric Thu 13-Jun-13 17:46:37

No time for gender stereotyping in my household.

I earn 4x what my husband earns. He does slightly more than me of the household chores (because he has more time).

There are two components to sexism, which is very widespread incidentally.

There is the male role - which is simply irritating and unjustified

There is the female role in acquiescing, pandering - they are self-limiting attitudes. Not that I think you fall into that role, OP, but many women do.

Hullygully Thu 13-Jun-13 17:47:08

One must not, of course, forget that the tasks one doesn't wish to do, are those most unsuited to one. Equally, why keep a dog and bark oneself?

limitedperiodonly Thu 13-Jun-13 17:55:48

I change duvet covers by climbing into them with the duvet so my method is suited to a small person. I'm just glad they don't send small people up chimneys any more.

chaz I've just sprouted a tiny bristle a centimetre or less below my lower lip that's invisible (I hope) but infuriating.

I keep gripping my lower lip with my teeth and feeling for it with my upper lip so I can pluck it.

It makes me look like this
and if I don't snap out of it DH will leave me

I find that most men are terrified of me. Even sexist twat DBil treats me with the utmost respect.
Good. Otherwise I'd have to kill him wink

I suffer a bit with adult acne and I have horrible vision of spots and chin hairs at the same time, I'm going to look like a teenage boy.

Mind you if the chin hairs are good enough I might be able to shave like a bloke - equality after all.

limitedperiodonly Thu 13-Jun-13 18:01:09

Under Apartheid it was called separate development eldritch. But that wasn't sinister. It was just playing to people's strengths...

RevoltingPeasant Thu 13-Jun-13 18:09:59

Separate but equal Eldritch and it was US, segregation era.

And it's not generational, necessarily. My mum was born in 1949 but she spends most of her life drilling holes in stuff with her Bosch cordless, stomping around the moors, and owning her own business.

She gave me Our Bodies, Ourselves to read when I could only look at the pictures. <proud>

I had many, many embarrassing questions for our teenaged babysitters.


LaFataTurchina Thu 13-Jun-13 18:27:59

I am a teeny 5'3" weakling but I am really good at opening jars. I can open stuff much better than DP. (I think maybe flute playing has given me really strong hands)

Also, I agree in equality and feminism and that.

But mainly I just wanted to mention how good I am at opening jars grin

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf Thu 13-Jun-13 19:28:03

Can I just say, a propos the Other Thread Which Started This Thread (RIP) as it has been bugging me all day.

I cannot imagine anything more tragic than a husband and wife getting into a car and driving an hour and a half to watch a stripper together. And then driving back. It's verging on Mike Leigh-esque in its quiet poignancy.

MalenkyRusskyDrakonchik Thu 13-Jun-13 19:33:48

Ahh, but you only think that because you're a prude, and watching stripping is inexplicably popular 'alternative' and dated avant-garde.

LadyBeagleEyes Thu 13-Jun-13 19:38:54

Yes Malenky.
You must be frigid Tondelayo wink.

MalenkyRusskyDrakonchik Thu 13-Jun-13 19:41:03

It might be because we're man-hating lesbians, too. That'd give us extra reason not to be turned on by the healthy spectacle of naked women, unlike fine upstanding straight wives of pervy wankers, who are naturally raring to go at the flash of a boob.

limitedperiodonly Thu 13-Jun-13 19:47:57

I was hurt that it was specified that the ladies were attractive.

Where does that leave those of us with stomach-churning deformities?

Catering for a niche market, I suppose. I hear there are internet forums for that kind of thing.

Lweji Thu 13-Jun-13 19:51:41

I think women should not be allowed to do housework.

To stand up in public transport, wait in queues, lift heavy loads.

Sheshelob Thu 13-Jun-13 20:00:02

They're edgy and risqué, innit. And they swing, which also edgy and risqué.

We are mean wimmin who are ruining it for menz and wifeys who want to spice up their love lives try to pick up swingers on a parenting forum.

I don't know about you, but I fucking hate me right now.

<reports self to MNHQ for PA on self>

MalenkyRusskyDrakonchik Thu 13-Jun-13 20:02:48

I think you mean 'the wife', sheshelob. That's also modern, edgy terminology.

Hullygully Thu 13-Jun-13 20:08:31

I did actually go with dh (pre dhness) to every single bar in pat pong to see the Thai spectaculars. It was literally astonishing. The best bit were the sex shows where the man and woman/ woman and woman contorted themselves with the most bored faces ever and chatted amongst themselves.

It was very interesting and I would never feel the need to go to anything ever again.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf Thu 13-Jun-13 20:10:33

Also, if she can't drive how do they resolve the car keys in a bowl issue? I would have thought sexually adventurous modern women would at least have a moped.

LadyBeagleEyes Thu 13-Jun-13 20:17:46

What a bunch of jealous wimmin on heregrin

Sheshelob Thu 13-Jun-13 20:22:53

I'm imagining a shopping trolley he nicked from Asda, with a pole to punt it with. The pole no doubt comes in handy, as does the shopping trolley.

Modern, that.

MalenkyRusskyDrakonchik Thu 13-Jun-13 20:23:03

I suspect in this case, tonde, she resolves it by not being real. smile

Sheshelob Thu 13-Jun-13 20:25:38

Unless his left hand is called The Wife.

MalenkyRusskyDrakonchik Thu 13-Jun-13 20:26:55

And I thought I found the prospect of stripping faintly distasteful.

LadyBeagleEyes Thu 13-Jun-13 20:37:21

Of course she's real, in his head she's the perfect fantasy woman.
Sixteen when they got together, a perfect mother who loves to SAH, and accompanies him to strip shows and enjoys swinging, while bringing up twins and another child.

What's not to like?

MalenkyRusskyDrakonchik Thu 13-Jun-13 20:43:21

Ah, see I was picturing her as an impressive career woman while the OP stays home with the children (having given up his high-powered job). That'll be why the OP is on a parenting site, natch. In case you thought it looked odd at all.

Sheshelob Thu 13-Jun-13 20:50:08

I think OP thinks "parenting" is like "dogging" - a normal word that

Sheshelob Thu 13-Jun-13 20:51:02

Fat fingers!!

A normal word that is used as code for something pervy.

Sheshelob Thu 13-Jun-13 21:21:52

My fat fingers killed the thread.

CheapBread Thu 13-Jun-13 22:17:07

Pmsl at 'you guys'
sheshelob is my new girl crush, she has made me think about role reversal, and is rather funny.

In response to OP, I can't think of anything. Not a thing.

Sheshelob Thu 13-Jun-13 22:38:53

<bows deeply, hiding unopened jar>


ComposHat Thu 13-Jun-13 23:56:55

Despite being a gentleman mumsnetter with very weak wrists (racnteurs wrist is an actual medical condition I just made up)

I find a few taps aronund the rim of the jar with a knife is usually sufficent to open the most stubborn of jars.

Failing that I had the foresight to aquire a very strong wife.

ChippingInWiredOnCoffee Fri 14-Jun-13 00:15:53

Hully - you don't learn do you wink grin

I am SO pleased about that! smile

kickassangel Fri 14-Jun-13 01:05:56

I like cupcakes. I like them so much that I have a little hobby business selling them. Have got a couple of weddings to do this summer.

Don't like bunting though.

And I'm doing an MA in women & gender studies, so I think I may be allowed on the submarine. I even know how to push buttons, and use power tools.

But spelling myso misogn misge sexism is beyond me. (Shame, given the MA)

garlicgrump Fri 14-Jun-13 01:23:27

Wimminz shouldn't be allowed to call anybody a misogynist, but menz can call women misogynists. They can call women misandrists, too, but so can wimminz so that part's equalist.

See, I have learned something from being on the fwr board <proud>

I can't make cupcakes. Does this mean I'm a man?

MaMattoo Fri 14-Jun-13 01:23:34

Allowed?! Time warp? Or is this a joke...?

kickassangel Fri 14-Jun-13 01:24:29

Garlic, do you ET them? Real men don't

garlicgrump Fri 14-Jun-13 01:36:09

I must be a real man, Kickass, as I have no fucking clue how to ET a cupcake confused

kickassangel Fri 14-Jun-13 02:21:06

hmm, perhaps I meant eat. silly me and my ipad, can never get the hang of it.
<giggle, bat of eyelashes>

garlicgrump Fri 14-Jun-13 02:38:37

<chuckles manfully at Kickass>

We Real Men don't ET quiche or cupcakes. We're too busy lifting heavy things and working machinery.

<scoffs cake>

Would like me to stick your eyelashes back on for you? Hold still ... <leans over gently but manfully, presses strip to lid with expert fingers, smiles indulgently> ... There! You're so pretty, you know, you could easily do without those. Must be off, that pile of wood won't chop itself.


I seem to have morphed into the absurd hero of an airport novel. Any minute now, I'll be immobilising Hully with recently-purchased DIY items prior to wordlessly shagging her in assorted ridiculous locations.

kickassangel Fri 14-Jun-13 02:46:02

ooh, you;ve made me come over all unnecessary

HullMum Fri 14-Jun-13 04:30:26

I can't swing a hammer because of my mahoosive bazookas

haven't got bazookas sad

MyBaby1day Fri 14-Jun-13 06:12:56

Yes I do. I believe in equality. We are different-but equal. I like to think I have my own version of GIRL POWER!! grin

Xenia Fri 14-Jun-13 09:09:43

Different but equal is usually used as a tool to engrain and justify sexism. We are not really that different at all. The UK used to think women were so different they could not qualify as doctors.
Harry Enfield is quite funny on these issues:

slug Fri 14-Jun-13 12:36:33
LurcioLovesFrankie Fri 14-Jun-13 13:13:19

I love this thread. It has given me "champagne feminism" and the mental image of Hully rocking up in her sub at Xenia's island.

Hullygully Fri 14-Jun-13 13:17:46

I am a cava feminist <cracks open bottle with teeth whilst helming sub>

Hullygully Fri 14-Jun-13 13:21:04

love that slug

Xenia Fri 14-Jun-13 13:23:03

Yes, I like the sub and island visual image - in my head at least.
Humans like a range of hobbies and when we categorise all girls into just doing XYZ hobbies and boys ABC is does limit them more than is needed.
Sadly even today a lot of women go into very low paid areas of work of low value and men don't and that needs to be addressed too.

Hullygully Fri 14-Jun-13 13:31:55

I'm on my way, Xenia. Turn left at Panama, I believe. I'm bringing M Bonsoir who has purchased a special stripey nautical sweater in honour of the occasion.

ComposHat Fri 14-Jun-13 13:33:59

I am a cava feminist

Ooh hark at Ms Fancydrawers, I am a babycham femininst.

Trills Fri 14-Jun-13 13:35:44

Well, women shouldn't be allowed to do everything that men DO, because lots of the things that men DO, nobody should be allowed to do, IYSWIM.

I don't have the budget to be a champagne feminist.

LurcioLovesFrankie Fri 14-Jun-13 13:38:19

I'll see your "babycham feminist" and raise you lambrini feminist.

LurcioLovesFrankie Fri 14-Jun-13 13:39:39

Or perhaps that should be "lower" rather than "raise".

EldritchCleavage Fri 14-Jun-13 13:54:59

I am a Ribena feminist.

thegreylady Fri 14-Jun-13 14:41:31

We are indeed equal but different.As far as I am concerned 'allowed' doesn't come into it at all.Both men and women should be able to do whatever they can do.

Trills Fri 14-Jun-13 17:05:01

We are equal but different.

But what the differences are - we are not sure.

How big the differences are - probably not as big as many people seem to think.

Any argument based on "biological differences" is probably just some sexism.

limitedperiodonly Fri 14-Jun-13 18:10:38

How about we just drop the different thing and say we're just equal?

Latara Fri 14-Jun-13 18:42:07

We are different to men (thank god), but we should be treated equally and do exactly as they do in life if we wish to.

Shitsinger Fri 14-Jun-13 19:12:40

Interesting that what Men do is still seen as the norm/preferred option in society and that as a result women are seen as lacking.
Push a 9lb baby out of your penis and then keep it alive using only your body for 6 months and then we can talk.grin

Xenia Fri 14-Jun-13 19:26:29

Women give birth. Men can't (so far). However we have many more similarities than differences. Also men have had a lot of sense leaving low grade low paid dull stuff like cleaning and housecare to women and only now do women have the power to say - hang on that's as dull as ditch water I'd rather be out earning £100k whilst you stay home mopping floors mate.

Lazyjaney Fri 14-Jun-13 21:36:04

"Push a 9lb baby out of your penis and then keep it alive using only your body for 6 months and then we can talk"

But OTOH women can't talk out their arses non stop grin

digerd Sat 15-Jun-13 06:51:39

My sis said to me " I have always known that women are superior to men. They should be the ones in charge!" She earned more than her DH, and when the 2DS were 7 and 9, they reversed roles.
It worked brilliantly, as he played footie with the boys in the school holidays and renovated the house- neither of which sis wanted to do- and all the shopping, laundry, cleaning , cooking etc.

When she took early retirement, she moaned to me that DH didn't touch the hoover anymore and she had to do it. hmm

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