To think that the offer I just made on this house was not to be snorted at derisively(92 Posts)
I am rapidly going off estate agents
House is on at 289, only one house in a row of about 300 houses has gone over the stamp duty threshold and it sold at 270 last year - it was a 4 bed detached, now it would be worth according to Zoopla 284.
I've offered 249999 on a 2 bed detached. On a busy road. That's been on 4 months. With 20 steep stairs up from the road to the front door thus putting off people with young children and the elderly (its a bungalow). And we have a very short chain as our buyer has cash.
Is that er..... snortable ?
Not sure if I understand but did you offer 249999 on a house on for 289?
If you did then I think that it would be sort of snortable. Ignore zoopla because it is tosh. It doesn't matter what you think it is worth. If the vendor has it on that price then that is what they think it is worth. I know a house is only worth what a person pays for it and you may be correct in your assumption that the price is wrong but you have clearly come in much lower than they expected.
Or I might have totally misunderstood your post - in which case ignore me.
sorry couldn't follow your point, so don't know if it was sortable or not.
It's a low offer but the estate agent shouldnt have snorted, its not beyond the realms of possibility that it will be accepted, DH and I have just bought a property for 80k below the asking price...
YANBU It's definitely not snortable. It may not be what they want. but it's a good offer for a 2 bed, if the 3 bed went for not much more.
sorry 4 bed went for not much more
No, you've got it and it's fine you don't agree.
The estate agent snorted. No house (apart from a 4 bed has gone over the stamp duty in that road and it's a 2 bed I've offered on)
I'm sure the very nice vendor won't snort, he may just say No as he's entitled to.
Is one of these houses yours? I don't understand why you're giving details of 2 houses. Plus as sovery said, a house is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.
Why is Zoopla tosh?
it has actual sold prices on it - in fact it has every house I've ever bought accurately described on there with the correct sold price
i understand what you are saying.
I think making an offer 40 k below asking price is clearly asking for rejection, but the snorting may be a tactic. It depends how serious you are.
We were serious about this house and saw several houses in the same price range so we knew how it compared with the market. Also, the EA knew we knew as he had been round with us. We then made an offer of 10k below asking price, outlining why we thought it was overpriced.
Offer was accepted.
I think making an offer so much lower than asking price with no context is probably sending a signal you're not interested tbh.
Neither of the houses are mine - I've put the 4 bed down as comparison - all the 2 beds in that road go for 220/230
Aha I get it now . Are you sure there's nothing amazingly exceptional about the property which makes it worth 289ish?
I gave all the context. I said the offer was at the stamp duty price, that none had gone over that, that we would be worried about re-sale because of the steps and a busy road and that I knew it had been on a while. And that our buyer was paying cash.
We are very serious and said it too. I imagine it's really difficult to sell a house in a road where none have gone over the 250 stamp duty level (apart from the huge 4 bed on a massive plot)
There's nothing exceptional about it, in fact it's very dated - of no interest to a builder either because of the massive hill its on (the steep steps to the front door) - all rules out redevelopment
IME Estate Agents do this kind of thing. We were looking for a house at £X max in a certain area and I happend to say that I also likes another neighbouring area - but before I could finish my sentence "but I know its unlikely anything will ever come up in our price bracket there" I was smashed to smitherines by the
arsehole estate agent snorting and guffawing at my idiocy and telling me in ni uncertain terms I was being ridiculous and it would never happen in our price bracket.
This is years ago and I still steam about it.
The estate agents was being an arogant arse to you. In short he was rude. He is entiteld to think what ever he likes and the vendor too (and say no) but to guffaw and snort is arrogant and rude.
I'd deduct 10k for the snort, see how he likes that.
Is it because its a bungalow? As you say it won't really appeal to the usual bungalow buyers because of the steps up from the road. Perhaps they've had lots of offers at that price and the EA was snorting in a sort of "oh no not another one!" way?
Depends how long it has been on the market really doesn't it?
I've known bigger reductions being accepted. We offered low got rejected then when we didn't increase it the vendors got back in touch and said were we still interested at the price we offered, we bought the house thing is we weren't interested in it at a higher price and I had plenty of others I was interested in. The agent shouldn't have snorted
I will be honest and say I was upset when someone offered £105,000 for my home which was on the market for £150,000. It felt like an insult, and I asked the estate agent not to accept any further offers from the couple.
It sold for £145000 in the end which is about right.
In some areas places sell well under asking, in some areas you have to go over.
But one thing that remains constant throughout is that estate agents are cunts.
The agent was very rude to have snorted.
Are you sure, from his response, that he will pass offer on to vendors? (he should!)
The average house sells for about 91/92% of the asking price.
So there's a good chance that the house you are looking at will go for 263 - 265 ish
So you're not far off for a first offer
Zoopla is tosh.
If I look up my road it has our house worth much more than one over the road that I know is superior. This is because the last recorded sale of ours was in 2011, and the other house sold 4 years ago.
Balloon Maybe current value is tosh but it does have actual sale prices, obv less helpful if they're old, but they are recorded there and give an idea of current value if you know the layout etc of a house that sold recently and how it compares to your house
Laurie, we were in pretty much the same position as you! Since none of the other houses had gone for over the threshold we offered below it, and the sellers accepted. Our estate agent wasn't as arsey as yours though, even though our offer was 40k under. Let the sellers decide and try to ignore the attitude of the estate agent, you are likely to have your offer accepted if its a similar price to others in the area. There was no way our house would have sold for any more than what we offered.
ballon you take that into account when you check Zoopla. It is only a record of the last selling price.
I was furious at my OH for putting in such a low offer on the house we wanted. I thought he was being very rude.
The vendors bit our arm off though.
Poor buggers had had no viewers for ages apart from us. I am not surprised. None of the several hundred estate agents I had signed up to had bothered to send us ANY details of any house.
I suspect it is because our budget was low and they were not interested in selling cheaper properties.
When I went to them in person they had reams of stuff within our budget.
Its a perfectly sweet little house, 15min walk from the tube, set round a green and you can see Epping Forest from the top of the road.
We had our flat on for 145k and someone offered us 100k. I have to admit I did snort at that. We took 140 for it, that was a proper offer.
Snorting is rude, but then many estate agents are slimy turds, so what can you expect really?
But not you Mrs DV. You are not a turd
Why thank you Jamie
Thats nice to know
Just to point out....I didn't sort at the potential buyer, just the estate agent.
He didn't seem to mind.
Laurie - remember this saying: "If you're not embarrassed by your first offer, then it's too high." Very wise.
It's a game between Estate Agent and Vendor and Buyer. The sooner you learn how to play, the sooner you get what you want.
Fair enough. It's the stamp duty cut off, isn't it?
But, I don't think it'll be accepted although the EA has a duty to legally pass on the offer.
If they do accept it, you can snort back...
There are several houses locally in this (tricky) price bracket that have been advertised at 280-300 and ended up going for 250 and under.
The estate agent is just playing a game and trying to make you feel like you shouldn't be making this offer. Don't let him succeed.
Even if they turn it down, they may be back in a couple of months asking if the offer is still on the table!
Zoopla does have correct sales prices on it, but it's "estimated values" are complete bobbins. Our (recently bought) house is a semi and is mirror image identical to our neighbours' house, but ours is "valued" at £365k and theirs at under £300k, because they bought it in 1998 and Zoopla has under-estimated the uplift for the local area over that time. It just doesn't have precise enough information.
I thought you were talking about zoopla estimates - not sold prices. Zoopla estimates are usually way out.
As above, it's all part of the game. Not sure I understand why you've offered 250k, when you say similar properties sell for 220-230k?
When we were buying our first we were advised to go in at snort able level and move up by tiny increments.
It's not necessarily snortable but the agent is in the business of selling the property so not sure what you expect? He/she is hardly going to say an offer £40k below the asking price is generous. When I was selling a flat the agent brought an offer to me that was £30k under asking price but told the offeror she wasn't going to put it to me. Standard negotiating tactic.
Any agent who said to your face it was a good offer (regardless of what they told the vendor) wouldn't be much cop.
My mum ended up accepting an offer one million less than her house was listed at. Yes, you read that correctly, one million less (well, almost, think it was 800 odd thousands less) so a drop of 40 is absolutely not snortable!
"ballon you take that into account when you check Zoopla. It is only a record of the last selling price."
nnnnnyeeeess shewhowines it's not just a record of last selling price, though, it gives you an estimated worth right now. And some people would think, well THAT's what my house MUST be worth!
I was chuffed to buggery at the estimated value price that was on for ours. Then I noticed the estimated value price of the house over the road, which I guess would be worth a good £80,000 more, was in fact about £20,000 less than ours.
I can see that it is calculated from the last recorded selling price, and as ours was last sold in 2001, before the current problems, I presume it has skewed the figures somewhat. But someone like, say, my Dad, would be telling all and sundry that his house is worth £££XXX because that's what "They" said.
We were snorted at by a very rude EA when I asked to view a property - when we had sold & completed on our house - just for asking to go & look at one (told we were too slow, that some other people were interested, didn't listen when I repeatedly pointed out we had completed & were living with my mum, didn't suggest other properties).. Oh how I laughed when that property came back on the market 6 weeks later.
Estate agent was rude. No point pissing you off as you might be irrational and not want to buy anything through them. I've certainly picked the best agent when houses have been listed with two.
I think it's unlikely the offer will be accepted, but you never know. The agent's attitude won't help if they present the offer like that. We debated with an agent about what a house was worth (asking price of 275) and offered 250. It was rejected. 5 months later we'd bought a different house and they called up wanting to speak to us, a month or so later, we saw the house had sold for what we'd offered. Being greedy delayed them by 6+ months, but I think the agent's pig headedness contributed to it.
The stamp duty threshold is £250,00 ie its 1% up to and including £250,000. There is generally no price point of £265,000/ £270,000 hence the estate agents "valuation" first offers are often rejected but 6 months down the line £250k might be the price achieved.
the SD threshold totally skews the market at that level. Lots of houses ought to go for 260k but end up going for 249 because people just won't offer the extra and go over the limit. The step up from 1 to 3% ought to be progressive (ie, you only pay it on the bit above the limit). Our old house, which we did a part ex on with a newbuild was sold by the very large building company for 60k less than we had it on for, just cos they wanted it off the books. Our experience was that vendors still are not really grasping what has happened to the market in the last few years and often are putting houses on at unrealistic prices. After 4 months, if the OP is in a strong buying position, the offer was perfectly understandable and the EA is a rude, unprofessional idiot.
My current house was on the market for 130k and I got it for 105k
Been on the market for 6 months and was massively overpriced
Offer was rejected
12 weeks later I put the same offer in again which was rejected
Turned out the person that priced it was from an office the other side of the city and was priced for that area and no one had the common sense to wonder why it was so much more than comparable properties
Saying No is fine. Snorting is rude, YANBU
This is one reason why I don't like estate agents.
I tend to agree with Tango. The process is a game, a crap one, but a game nonetheless.
Hold firm on your offer if you really are reluctant to go over the threshold. We were involved in a very similar situation last year. Sellers wanted above threshold, we offered just below, went to and fro for two months. Agreed an offer £1 below threshold. Then survey came back with big issues. Seller would not budge on price, so we pulled out.
Two weeks later, better house on same road came on the market. Completed and moved in ten days before Xmas. And the first house? They have just sold it for 5K less then our first offer.
Hold firm and don't fall into the estate agents trap of pushing you that bit further than what you actually want to pay.
EA is an idiot for being rude. Even if you get rejected by the vendor, you are a buyer which is a sought after commodity in many areas.
Rudeness gets remembered. When we bought our current house I witnessed an agent be awfully rude & snobbish to a girl who came in to make an appointment to view a house.... 9 years later it had still stuck with me when we put this house on the market. I got them out to value/quote & it was clear they still had the same attitude. I chose another agent, one that had been good when we were buying. It was a loss of a very easy sale to the 1st agent (we are in a very sought after area).
An offer is an offer - it's up to the vendor if they will accept it and will be affected by many factors. Hopefully idiotic EAs may nit be one of them. Good luck.
Agent may be snorting because seller is arsey and unreasonable, not snorting at OP just snorting at the fact he knows seller will refuse. I would not take it personally.
We really can't go over the threshold and we'd be daft to - it needs a new kitchen, bathroom, extra bathroom in the loft and a proper dormer window to turn it into a 3 bed house. Plus redecoration and carpets.
If we got it for the stamp duty (250) and spent 20k on the above we still would be very unlikely to make our money back.
Someone asked me earlier why offer so much when 3 beds go for 220/230 - good question. This house has more potential and is detached and crucially the seller is a really nice elderly man whom we wanted to show we were serious and not piss him about.
DH wanted to offer 240 and work our way up to 250 but I convinced him we should make the strongest offer we could to show the very nice vendor we were serious.
I was kind of hoping the estate agent (who knows it's a strong offer, who knows that they don't go over 250) would see it was the strongest offer possible and put that to his client.
That's certainly what our agent did - we put ours on at a fixed price (stamp duty threshold) even though our own agent said we could piss about putting it on at 275k and sold it at the fixed price in 8 days.
Ignore. Ignore. Ignore. I had the keys to my current house (minus the garage - yeah thanks for that) thrown over a desk to me with the comment 'you've stolen that place'. Did I care? Not a jot as i got it at below stamp duty when the price started at 300k, slipped to 275, then to 265. It needed extensive renovation and an extension to replace a leaking dormer. If i had paid over, not only would I have had no money to do any of this, I'd now be in negative equity.
What lljkk said. The agent might have been snorting because he knows you know it's worth less but he can't convince the owner of that. Don't contact them again and if they come back to you, lower your offer further still. We offered well below the advertised value of our place and it was accepted pretty quickly - it's not rude to lowball.
You're a cash buyer? I'd be pretty pissed off if an agent selling a house of mine snorted at any of those in this market. He's playing a game, but he's also a twat.
Ignore the estate agent. Zoopla's current valuations are total bullshit though.
Of you really like it, view again and tell the vendor directly that you've made an offer of 250 but that's your ceiling. That way you know they know about it (some EAs don't pass on all offers) and you can gauge the reaction. It might be worth hanging on for a while if you can too.
What's a 'snortable' offer today they may bite your arm off for in a few months time - this happened us - vendor was very rude and basically said not to view if we wanted to negotiate on price - so we didn't. Got a phonecall 5 months later from EA saying that the vendors were dropping the price by over £30k (!!!), were happy to negotiate on that and would be like to view. We didn't!
I don't think it was a ludicrous offer. I think you can offer what you like. It's their choice to turn it down or accept it. NEVER be afraid to make an offer I say. They can always say no. At least they can say 'we've had an offer'. If it's on at 179k you can assume that they might sell for 160 if it's been on the market a while, and then say if your finance is in order or your a cash buyer then no harm going in with 150. that's my opinion. NObody is forcing the buyer to accept. Ddi the estate agent pass on the offer?
Until the EA has put the offer forward to the vendor he shouldn't be snorting.
You may still yet get the last snort.
I totally agree with Aprilfoolishness. The vendor should be very annoyed if your offer wasn't passed on.
He's an idiot. EAs are there to be snorted at, not do the snorting imho.
I got and offer £200k below the asking price on my flat so I snorted at my EA when he told me I should accept. I got a close to asking price offer the next month and after I'd snorted at him and kicked him up the backside.
<sorry to nice EAs out there but some of them really are a piece of work>
PS your offer was v reasonable.
Ask for confirmation of the formal offer in writing from the EA.
The EA is bound to put the offer forward unless the vendor has clearly issued him with instructions not to put forward offers less than £x.
Of course you have to bear in mind the EA would have most likely told the vendor is was worth £280k+ to get them to sign with them.
We sold with an online agent. Paid £550 up front. Sold within 2 days for asking price and we will be moved out in 7 weeks from offer to completion.
Much better than the commission the local agents wanted....
Just make sure that the EA put your offer to the vendor.If you are in any doubt then you could put the offer in writing and send it to the vendor.The EA may have a hidden agenda.
Perfectly reasonable to try.
We offered 20% below the asking price. Then the seller got back saying " can I have your final, and real offer". We then offered a price 10% below asking.
It is all a bit of a game, and an offer like yours or mine, is just a bid to start negotiations IMO.
And snorting would not bother me, it is just part of estate agent intimidation tactics to get you to offer the asking price.
IMO your offer is too high. If a 4bed went for 270k your offer of 250k for a 2bed is a high. Given the work you need to do to get it to a 3 bed I would say you should go back with an offer of 220k. GBP30k is reasonable for adding a bedroom and putting in new kitchen and bathroom.
We bought our house at the stamp duty limit, refused to go any higher and they came back and accepted.
We just found out that some people we know offered 30k more than us a few months before and were rejected!
The owners must have been well pissed off. Might explain why they removed the toilet roll holder from the wall when they left!
"I've certainly picked the best agent when houses have been listed with two."
We looked at a house in our village, really liked it, made an offer, then found that someone else had already made one which ad only been provisionally accepted because their chain was not complete (neither was ours.) The EA had made no mention of this and we had asked. Presumably they wanted us to race for the prize, something I would not have been prepared to do. The other people's chain completed the next day anyway. I never forgave the EA for letting me get all excited about a house and making plans when someone else was poised to buy it.
They had been sending us details of another house. So had another agent. Eventually it dawned on me that we should look at it. Which agent did I call? The one who had sent us the details of the house first, and who had the best description and pictures? Uh-uh. We went with the one who had not lied to us. And bought the house through them and they got the commission. Ha!
I think ideally Balloon slayer you should follow it up by telling the liars how much commission they've lost out on and why!
YANBU. They're getting enough commission to be polite to potential customers.
YANBU - nothing ventured nothing gained. Our house was on for £280,000 which was waaaaaaaaaay over our price range. It's a 4 bed detatched and we'd been looking at 2/3 bed mid terraces. We came to look round it because my friend is an Estate Agent and kept telling me I'd 'love' it. I did indeed but nearly fainted at the price. She convinced us to put an offer in of.... £228,000 and we fucking got it! We've been here two years now and it hasn't fallen down or anything so I'm not sure why the seller plumped for us, but she did, and if my friend hadn't talked me into it we'd never be here. So there you are, not every low offer is a silly offer...
The 4 bed may have needed complete modernisation, a new roof, new wiring, central heating, bathrooms. It may have had subsidence, dry rot or all manner of other serious problems.
Our house is up for sale at the moment, someone offered £20k less than teh asking price because a house in the same row had been sold very cheaply last year. He saw it on
fucking Zoopla. Of course, what Zoopla didn't say was that the house was full of woodworm, has a collapsing chimney, wooden windows that are falling apart, cramped and tiny rooms, a kicked-in front door, original 1890s plumbing, needs a new roof and is generally in a terrible state of repair. Whereas ours has a £3k bathroom, has been knocked out and rebuilt completely, brand new windows, central heating, wiring, flooring, everything.
Would he have snorted if you had rounded up to 250,000? SDLT only goes up above this, his snort may have been also because you didn't know that. That said, I had an EA point this out to me in a much more polite way!
We bought at the end of 2009 when the market was on its arse. There was a house on at 690 which was in a complete mess so we offered 610. EA was disgusted and told us so and also that if we were going to be making such ridiculous offers then they didn't want to waste time showing us properties! Well, how I laughed when that house eventually sold a whole year later for 545! It makes me cross that they give people such unrealistic expectations, especially elderly people who have had no dealings with the market for 30years!
Oh and yanbu. If its rejected just leave it on the table for 3wks. They will start to get jittery as it gets close to you withdrawing the offer.
Zoopla is way out for about 60% of houses I'd say.
My parents have just sold their house and accepted an offer of £30 grand less than the value price.
they are cash buyers and have found a new house to buy. They let the estate agent who they are selling with put the offers in for the new house (at £20 grand less). My parents didnt want to go that low as the seller is a nice man and the estate agent nearly tore them a new one!
She very rightly said that it is a business and they are thinking with their hearts. The low offer was rejected and they have climbed and settled on a price everyone is happy with. If they hadnt have let their estate agent negociate for them they would have paid £5 grand more.
Please do not worry about the nice old man who owns the house, this is a business deal and you need to be ruthless.
Remember also that negotiating on a house is the most lucrative activity most of us are likely to do in our entire lives. As an example, I earned £1000 a MINUTE during my negotiating. Ok, there was research involved, but not loads.
You absolutely must focus on the fact that your negotiating efforts now are worth months or even years of toil in the workplace, particularly if mortgages are involved. The numbers involved means its easy to disconnect them from normal life. Talk of not upsetting an old man is mind boggling; think how upset you'd be on discovering you had to work an extra 3 years before retirement.
Laurie, did you tell the EA the basis of your offer eg the market data?
In my area a detached 3-bed house had an asking price for £13.000 LESS than my 2 bed- semi bungalow < backing a canal with trees and fields beyond, in a cul-de-sace of just 8 bungalows - prime lovely location . Bungalow was much older and in need of some repair.
Bungalows are at a premium as not many around. Only managed to get them down £150 for the repairs that were obvious and I was paying cash as had sold and moved out < after moving in there were other repairs needed that Surveyor had not noticed>. That was in 1998 and still here.
that ea is an idiot.
and i'd wonder whether he's passed the offer on. sounds a reasonable offer to me.
My mum had a house on the market some years ago for 329,000. After nearly 2 years she got an offer of £240,000 and accepted it straight away.
I was a bit but she just wanted to go.
The EA is bound to put the offer forward unless the vendor has clearly issued him with instructions not to put forward offers less than £x.
^^ this is the law, and it is timebound so they should have put your offer to the vendor by now. Hold tight, just say that's your best offer, keep it open but keep looking.
My husband and I just put in an offer of £130,000 for a beautiful terraced show house in a development, which was priced at £180,000. It had been on the market for three years!! (it is in a very rural location with lots of detached homes with lots of land around them also on sale at competitive prices so I think that's why it didn't sell).
Just waiting to hear.
Zoopla's estimated prices are utter rubbish. I nearly had a heart attack when I saw the estimated price for our neighbour's house. Zoopla estimated it at £800k, it's currently on the market for £300k.
Just out of interest, I filled in the bit that allows the owner to affect the estimated price by putting something crazy in for our house. Two days later the crazy price appeared as the estimated price
Zoopla's sold prices aren't always accurate either- they think I paid £100k more for my house than I actually did
I told the estate agent everything I said. He put it to the vendor who came back immediately and rejected it.
Turns out the estate agent agreed with me about the price! His agency is somewhat tied in to the price because they're the second agency to market it - it went multi agency after the initial 12 weeks.
The agent agreed the vendor may have to come down or not sell eventually.
We've been looking since the rejection and there is still nothing out there. We are considering moving area but it would mean me changing my whole life and driving and picking up from school.
Guess we're sort of waiting to see if something else comes on this weekend - or bungalow man decides he wants to sell.
We've left our offer on the table. And my fingers are crossed.
Would be very interested to hear about the outcome. We're also in a SDLT hole in SE London - 2 bed maisonettes with gardens here, close to good primaries went for 210 - 220 a couple of years ago and we were kicking ourselves a little bit for going at full asking price on the place we bought (but love, and have no intention of moving from for a few years). I always thought the area was underpriced given transport links, and a new leisure centre is just being built (with some discussion of a new cinema soon). First property on the street advertised above SDLT levels has just gone on... for 280. It's nice, but it's certainly not worth 60 more than we paid for (a much larger property with loft conversion) 2 years ago. I suspect prices here will remain artificially low-ish for another couple of years before the jump... another reason why we're happy to stay.
Well I am desperate to view a house and would probably offer the asking price but four phone calls to the estate agent haven't secured me a viewing. I am livid and I hate estate agents. Anyone know if I can complain about that? Surely it's false advertising?
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