111 Again, total and utter waste of time and money.(82 Posts)
My DD came screaming in from the garden, she has speared her eye with a bamboo cane. she was screaming and nearly vomiting.
Sat her down and in spite of the initial and unusual screams, shortly she seemed to recover, Within 40 mins she was running round again like nothing had happened, the eye, whilst v red and slightly swollen seemed OK. However being an eye I thought a doc should just shine his light on it - make sure all OK.
called out of hours. nothing its 111 now. call them. speak for ages.....long list of questions, get someone to call me back. about two hours later get a call back.
useless, can I see anything in the eye? ! No, I cant but that means jack shit.
I just thought a doc should take a look.
Can I get to A&E, no, not with EBF baby and her. She doesn't bloody need A&E.
She then tells me I cannot even see local doc, usual out of hours, round the corner but one, 9 miles away?! AND she cant make the appointment. She has to then call this other out of hours, to then call me to make an appt.
What a load of useless bloody shite.
Hours ago, had the normal system been operative, we would have been seen already and sent away or given something.
Oh - just got another call and asking the same questions again.
TBH with you, eyes would be one thing I wouldn't have called 111, I would have A&E'd. If you don't think it worthy of A&E there is google and cold compress.
You either need medical attention or you don't.
I kind of agree with Holly - in fact I probably would have gone straight to A+E taking her and the baby with me - eyes are funny things
Please say you went to A&E? It's not worth taking a risk with sight. Any micro-organisms or parasites from dirt could have been on that bamboo which can leave you in risk of blindness.
Your child speared herself in the eye, A and E is appropriate
I don't really get out of hours services. I think Holly is right - you either need medical attention or you don't. I'd either A and E or wait until Doc open, I think, for accidents. If I obviously had e.g. tonsillitis, I might ring Out of Hours to access prescriptions.
I'd definitely go to A&E
Surely it needs some sort of antiseptic rinse?
Take her to A and E, as soon as possible. I used to be a nurse, and I would want that checked out ASAP.
Go to A and E right now.
My brother did something similar as a child and was in hospital for 10 days.
I don't get why you can't take an EBF baby to a&e? If DD1 had done somethig similar, we'd be straight into the car, with EBF DD2 in a heartbeat.
It may not be a fun way to spend your bank holiday, but it's necessary. Please take her now.
What did you actually expect them to do, if you'd already decided for yourself that she didn't need to be seen at A & E?
I am with the others. She needs seeing in a and e
You phoned, they said a and e and you said no. That is hardly there fault.
I'm not sure why you think it waste of money? 111 is free.
You should have gone straight to A&E. 111 are not at fault here.
If she has "speared" herself in the eye she needs A&E, not faffing about with ooh doctors (who most likely would need to refer you to an optician/someone at A&E with more of a specialism in eyes, anyway).
One of the things about bfing is that it is easier to take them places spontaneously, so that is a silly reason not to go to A&E.
Both in defence of the 111 service and of the concept of ooh GPs generally - last bank holiday my dh and I were really worried about my 10mo dd whose temperature was up and down like a yoyo, not herself, off her food etc etc. Had my surgery been open I would have rung to speak to my doctor and ask her if she thought I needed an appointment. This is why ooh services are useful - sometimes you want advice as to whether your problem is urgent enough to seek medical care. In this instance they did think my dd should be seen by someone, and we had an appointment made for us at our local hospital. We were all back home on bed two and a quarter hours after initially decided we were worried about her, having been seen by a lovely and sympathetic GP. And all free of charge, with no need to worry whether or not we could afford the help we got. We're bloody lucky in this country.
So, after lots of un necessary back and forwards calls through 111, I got a call back from the out of hours docs, saying, its worth having a look.
This is what I thought hours ago.
111 has been a totally un necessary barrier that i have had to go through to get to where I knew I should be.
ie. she seems fine, eye seems ok - to the naked eye, but lets have a quick look.
Instead of calling straight through to out of hours, I have had a stupid barrier to go through.
how this is helping or stream lining the NHS I would love to know.
Absolutely gwennie - people take the free at point of use care for granted and don't realise what a wonderful thing it is.
But it wasn't a barrier to anything - you could have gone to Accident and Emergency with your Accident at the start, as several posters have suggested.
You should be taking that child to a &e.
You don't fuck about with eye stuff.
I do have a modicum of common sense, I have been to a and e quite a few times in her short life, and I was grabbing keys as she came in screaming, my DH calmed her down, looked at the eye, as best he could and as I said she calmed down, very quickly from hysteria. We kept checking the eye, and it swelled but not a lot, I have seen her with other things, looking like a golf ball.
She was running round, not complaining of any other symptoms, it was obvious to me at this stage it was not A&E worthy, however being an eye - it would help to have a doc shine a light on it for a proper look.
111 said - with the eye if it was a graze, it might be considered useful to have anti biotic s and the sooner given the better.
So after a long and round about waste of time, where an extra person has entered the equation, we finally where given an appointment where I wanted to go hours ago.
So yes - pointless and waste of time and resources!
111 isn't a screening service, it's for if you aren't sure and want extra advice/ They said to go to A&E, you said no, what did you want? They're not going to sent a GP for a house visit for that, it's a hospital job to get it checked over
And put plastic bottles over the end of your bamboo canes..........
It wont be free for much longer, if stupid things like 111 replace a normal and direct service that we used to have.
Its an extra and un necessary hoop to have to jump through.
Normally I would have called out of hours, had a doctor call me back and make an appointment.
I have had to answer the same questions Three times tonight! To get me to the answer I knew it would be.
It wasn't worthy of A&E would have been even more a waste of poor A&E time; we are told here not to go to A&E unless its absolutely critical.
This was not critical.
I didn't want screening I just wanted to call out of hours, I did not realise until tonight that I cant simply call out of hours any more.
My out of hours has been brilliant I usually get an appointment within two hours, and if its baby or more serious, sooner than that.
HOwever if I have to go through that again, I can see that in future, I will be clogging up A&E because I wouldnt be able to wait.
Eyes are very, very sensitive. DD1 complained of a sore eye. I looked. She had the teeniest scratch on the eyelid. I thought she was trying to swerve school, being a Sunday.
The next morning, her eyelid was sealed shut and bright red, with green pus oozing from the corners. The other eyelid was also swelling.
Periorbital cellulitis - cue 3 days as an ambulatory patient, backwards and forwards to the children's ward for IV antibiotics, then a week of oral antibiotics.
All from a scratch no bigger than 3mm.
How is she now Yoni? Have you got her seen? Can you tell if she can see properly?
I agree it's frustrating having to repeat the same info and is very poor customer service. However on this instance what really matters is how your DD is so please don't waste time on here and get her seen
If I have read the op correctly, the "unnecessary" step did offer you the opportunity to see a gp, and not go to a and e??
Granted, some of what I've read about 111 hasn't been great but if I'm honest I think you are being a tad harsh on it the service in this case.
It sounds as if you just want the NHS to jump through hoops to do what you want.
I had a corneal abrasion from a contact lens some years ago, the pain started several hours after the lens came out, it was only accurately diagnosed by using fluoroscein and UV light to which a GP would not have access and I needed steroid and antibiotic eye drops for a week afterwards.
As others have said I think you should have gone to A&E rather than demanding everyone fits in with you.
Why couldnt your husband have taken her to A & E.. seeing as you have an ebf baby..
Yabu not to bring her to a and e ,to get checked. Don't really get your point re the rest tbh.
She was running round, not complaining of any other symptoms, it was obvious to me at this stage it was not A&E worthy
But it's not obvious is it?
It's not obvious that by tomorrow she could wake up with an infection or an infected splinter that could have been prevented or removed, had you bothered to take her to see the GP at A&E.
Just because she's running around and not complaining, doesn't mean it doesn't need washing.
You had yourself and even your husband there. Why on earth could you not take her to A&E? Using a none excuse makes it seem like you just couldn't be bothered. Grazes on the eye that could introduce infection are not always visible to the naked eye. FWIW I think you're being irresponsible, almost to the point of negligence.
I honestly wouldn't have waited so long. a&e all the way.
I think the major issue us the system has been mismanaged for so long, people expect what they demand, not what they need. Now the system has to manage expectations as well as medical problems.
Yes, they should have sent a Dr round, at your convenience of course, to check her out. Wouldn't do to have your day disturbed. And, how date they ask you questions to work out what was wrong.
In case that wasn't clear, YABVVVVU
In this case, I'd have A&Ed.
However, both times I've used 111 it's been awful. Neither time have we received our call back from the doctor.
Our local hospital has a GP walk in next to the A&E and in both cases I've given up waiting on 111 and gone up there. It's not pleasant, given that it shares the waiting area with the A&E of a very busy hospital but at least we've been seen when it's been necessary.
Any injuries involving bamboo canes can be serious (the Japanese used bamboo to torture POWs) as they have tiny barbs in them that can work their way further into tissue.
DH was chopping bamboo in our garden and a tiny shard flew into his eye, he eventually went to A&E but had to have some minor surgery which was very painful and it took weeks to heal properly.
You should have gone straight to A&E rather than risk your DC's eyesight.
My DD came screaming in from the garden, she has speared her eye with a bamboo cane. she was screaming and nearly vomiting.
Out of interest, if a kid comes to you with a bamboo spear in their eyeball, is the best course of action really to yank it out yourself?
I predict in the next couple of months you dd will wake up in agony, unable to open her eye and you will need a&e, short way up is she needs eye drops, long way round up will spend more hours in a &e to be told eye drops, with a scratch to her cornea,
One of my dts when a baby and all unco-ordinated scratched my eye, watered a bit and painful, fine 15 mins later, fast forward 4 weeks and the most pain I have ever had.
I too injured my eye some months ago. It was painful at first with blurred vision, then it seemed to settle down and so I didn't go to A&E. As others have said a couple of days later it was agony and I could hardly see at all. The small scratch has got infected and I needed hospital treatment. Totally my own fault for not going sooner. Please take the advice given here and take your daughter to A&E. Also as others have said, eyes are the one thing that should ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS be checked by a medical professional.
in this case i would have just gone to a and e, eyes are seriouse stuff, bamboo has little bits that cant be seen by the naked eye, your husband could have taken her while you where at home with your baby. children get seen very quickly aswell.
what did the hospital say in the end?
fwiw. i phoned 111 up yesterday becasue my 4 year old had lost his voice for 4 days and yesterday was just so sleepy and crying which isnt like hi m. ( he also has a habbit of gettting tonsialtiouse) i had to phone 111 up, they phoned back with in 2 hours, said he needed to be seen with in 24 hours and already had a time slot for me at the hospital. considering, i think it was a pretty good, i was seen with in 20 mintues of my time slot too.
the only thing i was really pissed off i s that they have stopped the out of hours doctors appointment at the local hospital in my town, so had to travel 40 minutes by car, the buses dont run sunday, and i dont have £60 for a taxi, so i was lucky to get a lift but what about others who arnt so lucky? how can they take away such a thing, thats so needed in every town.
Blimey OP getting a hard time. I understand your point and agree its daft. YANBU
What was daft about 111 saying a child with an eye injury needs to be see in A and E dribble? I think in this case they were spot on and the problem came because the OP didn't want the 'hassle' of doing that!
Is there a reason why someone can't take an EBF baby to A&E?
I hope her eye is ok, OP.
Eye injuries need hospital review, they have the correct eye drops (with dye or to dilate pupils) to be able to assess for injury adequately. OOH do not. Why on earth didn't you just take her? Just because it settled doesn't mean she hasn't damaged or infected her eye.
111 is worse than useless in some areas, but this isn't something they should be dealing with I don't think.
I hope your daughter (and her sight) are ok.
Our normal doctors surgery may have refused to see you for this, in their opinion accidents (as this was) are for minor injuries or a and e.
111 is/will be a great service when used as it was intended, but it's expecting a lot for them to remotely diagnose possible eye damage.
I hope you will have covered the canes now, but if it happens again take her straight to A&E.
People missing the point here.
Yes, the OP should have gone to A&E with that sort of eye injury. Even a GP does not always have access to specialist opthalmic eye instruments - in order to look at an eye injury like this, you need the whole 'blue dye and special light' kit to see if there is a scratch. Which means going to A& E.
However - yes, the out of hours GP service has been eroded to the point at which people ARE needlessly arriving at an over pressured A&E service because they don't have access to less urgent care. Same with dentists. Which is partly the point the OP is making.
We had a fantastic experience with 111 last weekend. Rang, went through a couple of minutes of screening questions and were in front of a GP half an hour later, the 111 operator having made the appointment there and then.
Our ooh service is great and so are our minor injuries locally.
I wouldn't ring 111 for an eye injury I'd go straight to minor injuries who would check whether we needed to go to the local eye hospital (dp has been many times with work related eye injuries).
I also don't get why you can't take the baby.
Perhaps if people weren't calling 111 and wasting the time of ooh services on things requiring specialist assessment then 111 and ooh could cope better rainrain , it works both ways.
As someone who works in 111 it's quite frustrating when people complain just because they aren't getting what they want rather than what they need, medically speaking. It is not always appropriate to send people to a&e so we utilise minor injury depts, and we make gp appointments then and there.
If you choose to ignore the advice of the call handler, and then the nurse/paramedic who calls you back, all because you want to be seen by a service that is inappropriate then that isn't the fault of the service.
I don't understand why you or your DH couldn't take her to A&E. Completely confused by your post.
You should have gone to a&e with and eye accident like that. of course you can take an ebf baby, I have done. You cannot just demand to be seen round the corner by ooh.
We needed an ooh over the bank hol and travelled 15 miles, grateful for the appt.
Unless the OOH GP is fully kitted out with slit lamp and drops to stain the eye (in order for any scratches etc to be seen) the GP 'shining a light in it' is not going to show up anything. You got the correct advice.
Personally, if I don't think an eye problem is 'bad enough' for A&E, I go to an optician. They have all the specialist kit required and are far more experienced at examining eyes than the average GP is.
In every a&e there is usually an ophthalmologist for eye emergencies who actually know what they are looking at. But you don't want to use this already set up service because it is inconvenient for you?
Do you know how much ooh dr services cost? They have enough to do going out to see housebound patients do decide whether they are sick enough to warrant moving in an ambulance to hospital.
Sorry, but the eye dr at a&e could have just had a "quick look". The ooh gp would probably just refer to a&e anyway as they are not specialised in looking at eyes.
It is either emergency and needs a&e, or it isn't and you can wait to see GP. Technically this should warrant 111 redundant, but you would be amazed at the people who want to see an ooh gp for a sore throat they've had all day but didn't think to see their gp about. So I guess 111 could have a role in getting rid of those.
Eyes? A&E . Don't see what a gp could ever do for that tbh.
monty - one of the functions of the 111 number is supposed to be to help people who aren't sure how much of an emergency their problem is, and to point them towards appropriate care.
Here in Wales, one of the functions of the OOH GP is apparently to assess whether you should go to A &E, or wait to see your regular GP. Having used this service recently for a child, and last year for myself, after I was sent there by nhs direct, I saw how much of a 'referral' service they were, rather than a treatment option. The OOH GP was in a surgery with virtually no equipment. He could write prescriptions to take to a late night pharmacist - but his main function was to tell people either to go to a&e or leave it til normal surgery hours the next day. That's exactly how nhs direct use the service. So I don't get the 'people needing emergency services cluttering up OOH services' scenario, sorry. Maybe it is different where you are.
The op was initially advised by 111 to attend a&e, instead she said she wanted to see a local doctor, and wasted 111 time going through various options, as didn't want to travel to see the on call doc. I am commenting on the ops post alone to highlight that the problem can cut both ways, as you mentioned that a&e are struggling due to 111 and we are missing the point of the ops post. The op was given correct advice and she is complaining about it.
People seem to have lost the ability to recognise the difference between something that is an accident (or emergency), something which is urgent, and something that can wait. If the ops daughter had running screaming and nearly vomiting with a suspected fracture of her arm, she would have rushed her to hospital, she had an eye injury, something that could potentially lead to permenant vision loss, but thought a GP would be able to make a specialist assessment.
I understand that she wasn't sure, so called 111, but then when they gave her advice she refused it and caused a whole heap of pointless work for people not able to actually properly help.
I think most hospitals are breastfeeding friendly. And even if they're not, who cares? Are you not comfortable feeding in public OP?
I agree with lots of the previous posts-it's either an emergency (and warrants a&e, however inconvenient for you it may be), or it's not.
My Dh had a back spasm thingy recently which left him unable to move and crying out in pain. It didn't need a&e as his life wasn't in danger, but neither could he be left for the entire weekend without some effective pain relief. The 111 + local hospital ooh service was exactly what was needed, a sort of halfway house service in between 9-5 surgery, and a&e-we saw a doc, who ruled out major injury, got prescription and, in conjunction with our own doc (for arranging scans, tweaking pain relief etc) over the following weeks we were sorted.
I don't wish to sound harsh, but of all the complaints about the service I've heard it's been more about people being inconvenienced and not able to have a doc turn up at the house. If 111 deem it an emergency they will advise as such. I'm no expert but I'm guessing it's saving lots of unnecessary doctor hours dealing with trivial stuff. I'm all for letting the experts make the call, that's what the medical profession is trained for.
Surely it's easier with an ebf baby, you just need yourself and a muslin? Much easier than with a ff baby, lugging around bottles, cartons, formula, needing somewhere to warm it etc (that's not a criticism of ff, I am ff right now!)
posted to soon
- and yes you should have gone to a+e. I had a tiny, minor scratch last year (sand in my eye) - a week later I was in agony with a huge infection. I had 3 different antibiotics, a patch for 2 weeks, unable to drive and in constant pain. It took 2 months before I could go out without sunglasses on even an overcast day (photophobia) and I am now left with a badly scarred lens and cornea.
Injuries to eyes and ears = a trip to A&E in my book as they can turn nasty really quickly and its not worth messing about with your sight and hearing.
OP stop being so entitled and take some responsibility for this health problem. 111 are not a personal doctor service. We are in a 112 pilot area and it's working very well for us. Sadly, 111 are not capable of providing people with common sense
Two years ago, I had an accident on a saturday night (hurt my leg running down stairs). It was v painful but I was v sure I hadn't broken it, knew it was some sort of soft tissue injury - wasn't sure what to do. I rang nhs direct. After a long and quite sensible conversation (could I walk, was I on my own, could I ice and elevate leg etc), they told me NOT to go to A&E but to see my GP on Monday.
Which i did. He was really angry with me and the advice I'd been given - not it seemed because of the severity of the injury (I never had to go to hospital with it) or because I had missed out on important emergency treatment, but because 'it was an accident and we don't 'do' accidents.' I was quite annoyed at the time by this inconsistency and attitude.
Fast forward 2 years and the GP clinic now runs a minor injuries clinic. Precisely because of the 'is it an a&e problem or a gp problem' injuries. Much more sensible.
After the likes of the Daily Mail lambasting 111, the NHS and all of us who work in it at every opportunity, I am heartened by the responses here.
Your dd speared her eye with a bamboo cane, was screaming and nearly vomiting, and yet it was obvious to you that a trip to A&E was not needed??
If you have a medical qualification yourself you hardly had need to trouble the people at 111 in the first place...
As it was, you took a chance with your child's sight because you thought you knew best, it's a mercy she didn't have to pay the price for your arrogance.
Bore No, - thank you and your colleagues- I live in a pilot area and have had cause to ring you three times (totally unrelated things, one a neighbour, we're not hypochondriacs ) and the service on each occasion was fast and excellent, even at 5am on a snowy Sunday morning.
An out of hours doc called us back last night, v late. After a quick chat he said she sounded fine, but of course, as I had myself said - hours and hours and hours ago, a quick glance would be the best/ safest option.
So hours after that, we took her to docs, he sent her away with nothing, no meds...he said no scratch, and if something had been deposited within, it would have swelled more.
Relived, but such a shame, we were not able to simply call the out of hours directly ourselves when it happened.
Re our A&E, it has been drummed into us here that we must not contemplate going there unless it is a dire emergency.
It was quite obvious that once the screaming had subsided, it was not a dire emergency, or in fact - an emergency.
Goodness, I am amazed at some responses on here.
Maybe its little wonder A&E departments are close to breaking when some people are rushing down there and clogging them up when they need a little more common sense!
Why on earth would you take a child there who is quite obviously probably OK, just for a quick assurance check? That is what the docs if for isnt it, in our case? Why would you take a child to A&E when people are there in a serious way, in pain having to wait because some people are in there with the most minor ailments, that should be being seen by a doctor.
I was told a long time ago by a medic in the family, avoid docs waiting rooms and hospital waiting rooms! If you want to pick up infections and problems, those are the places to go.
I would not want to have a small baby with me in hospital no. Hence the BF problem. Much easier if I could have left her at home with DH.
Also, just to clarify, the eye injury flumoxed the 111 operative.
She is asking me - whether I can see a scratch, thats a bit different than when they ask - can the child tilt their head, have they got a fever.
Those symptoms are obvious. She was initially asking if I wanted to speak to a nurse.
I had to explain to her that I could not see a scratch but that the eye was very red, and me not seeing a scratch meant nothing.
It was then she suggested A&E!
She wasn't listening to the problem and saying " Get to A&E, this is an emergency".
She suggested it when I said I did not think talking to a nurse over the phone about whether or not the eye was scratched - would be much use!
But have you done anything to cover the cane ends and stop it happening again, OP?
Why couldn't your dh take her to docs/A&E? (I do agree that it's a pita if you can no longer ing ooh direct - with us, we used to ring surgery number and their answer phone would redirect to ooh. They would call back with appt).
oP, just for future reference for you, A & E stands for accident and emergency.
An accident is where someone has an accident. An example of this would be spearing themselves in the eye.
I'm intrigued to know why you called 111 when you already know better than them what to do.
This is so creepy!!
I have only been back home for about an hour after getting back from A&E with DS because he has done exactly the same with a bamboo stick in the garden from my tomato plants.
FWIW the nurses there said I did the right thing, he has had 2 eye baths, seen a paediatrician and eye specialist, and been sent away with antibiotics, pain killers and anti inflammation drugs .
In my neck of the woods, the doctors surgery send you straight to A&E with any eye injury - they simply can't deal with it at the surgery ( which is what the ooh surgery is - just your doctor, or one very like them, but somewhere else).
111 was right to tell you to go there - that's what you should have arranged to do.
And OP, if your daughter is like the other posters and develops an infection because you refused the advice, I'm sure that won't be cause for you to apologise for your lack of action and understanding of what the service is for.
You should have gone to A&E on this occasion. I wouldn't waste my time with 111 for something like this
Still making excuses - you husband could have taken her. And I have to say, for someone with so littleconcern for your daughter's welfare you are over reacting about taking the baby to A&E. Disgraceful excuse for parenting.
Having read your latest post op, it is clear you ignored advice. 111 told you this was an emergency and to take your dc to A&E.
Just to clarify op, I'm a nurse, I used to work in a&e. Eye injuries are an accident (and sometimes an emergency). It's numpties who turn up on a saturday with a sore throat they have had for 3 days but couldn't be arsed to see their gp on a weekday (because they were at work) and the ilk that drive us nuts.
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