to think this is the most stupid comment yet in relation to Woolwich?

(249 Posts)
CookieMofo Thu 23-May-13 20:56:31

Someone wrote a status in relation to Woolwich and the comment that followed it .... I was hmm

"Should off left th die like their left our soilder too die all people who work should refuse too pay tax. Apparently we gone too war its all over the news"

eh? confused

MalcolmTuckersMum Thu 23-May-13 20:59:02

I'd have to contest that! Radio 4 PM Programme today - Eddie Mair was interviewing some locals in Woolwich and they were very vocal in their extremist views. One of them managed to scrabble together the following statement
"If our grandfathers who fought for this country were alive now they'd be turning in their graves"

Now that is stupid! grin

IneedAyoniNickname Thu 23-May-13 20:59:32

I've got a 'friend' spouting similar, she thinks they should have been left to die and "is fed up of OUR taxes being used to save them!!!!!!!"

the irony is that she hasn't paid tax for 11 years!

Sadly this incident seems to have brought all the thickos out.

Ilovemyself Thu 23-May-13 21:01:21

Er. Can you translate please? If they mean what I think they mean it is stupid enough, but as it is you are definitely not being unreasonable!

CookieMofo Thu 23-May-13 21:02:32

I know I just love how everyones taxes are paying for their hospital treatment, they must be getting the best treatment anyone has ever had.

Because taxes don't also pay for police, doctors, nurses, schools, roads, lamp posts, libraries ...

CookieMofo Thu 23-May-13 21:04:35

Can you translate please?

Basically roughly translated I think she meant - the two men should have been left to die in the street, as they weren't no-one should pay taxes anymore and World War III has started.

Ilovemyself Thu 23-May-13 21:07:44

What I read it as then. Wow defo stupid

eminemmerdale Thu 23-May-13 21:11:18

My favourite was 'Hitler stood up 4 wot he believed in - just like us Brits'.

PandoraBoxx Thu 23-May-13 21:14:24

'Hitler stood up 4 wot he believed in - just like us Brits'.

confused

IvorHughJarse Thu 23-May-13 21:15:29

Malcolm - I heard that as I was driving home today. I had welled up hearing that that poor man had a 2 year old son, then I heard that interview and burst out laughing. Was cringe making!

eminemmerdale Thu 23-May-13 21:17:32

I read it and my mouth actually did fall open.

MalcolmTuckersMum Thu 23-May-13 21:18:17

It was extraordinary wasn't it Ivor. These people walk amongst us - scary stuff! There was so much wrong with everything those people were saying and you could almost feel Eddie Mair's incredulity.

Sleepgrumpydopey Thu 23-May-13 21:18:44

Stupidest comment; Radio 5live presenter said yesterday that "local people were cut up about what had happened"!!!

Booyhoo Thu 23-May-13 21:20:18

confused

i've just seen someone post a poem that is supposedly the attack victim describing his death and 'afterdeath'. i think it's awful tbh.

AnyFucker Thu 23-May-13 21:20:22

I hate being a member of the "human" race sometimes

That I am affiliated in some way to some people is a source of constant distress to me

DuttyWine Thu 23-May-13 21:21:31

I saw someone comment on EDL's photo on fb... Something like... "That xxx should be sent back where he came from apart from the woman who stood over the man who was the same colour as him..." Wtaf????

I must stress I am not friends with the person someone I subsequently deleted shared an EDL photo so I had a nosey at the comments and was appalled.

[NOTE: post edited by MNHQ to remove racist term]

AuntieStella Thu 23-May-13 21:22:06

I saw "I know it was a hand gun because I saw it in his hand"

To be fair though, I think this was just a shocked version "I know he had a gun because I saw it"

Booyhoo Thu 23-May-13 21:22:56

me too AF.

NotYoMomma Thu 23-May-13 21:25:42

'pissed off that you can wear a bhurka or a curtain and nothing is said but if you wear an SAS mask on the streets you get arrested. Wtf?'

I said well one is an item of clothing designed for modesty and one is a piece of kit designed.for conflict and warfare... It's not like you could nip to ASDA in an SAS mask...

To which they responded that he regularly saw people wearing them in Tesco....

I gave up after that...

EleanorFarjeon Thu 23-May-13 21:25:44

I have a colleague who declared the terrorists should have been 'taken out the back and shot' and then spouted the usual crap about her taxes paying to keep them in prison.

Never has the phrase 'empty vessels make the most noise' been more pertinent.

eminemmerdale Thu 23-May-13 21:28:29

Oh god, I've just seen that hideous poem too..

Booyhoo Thu 23-May-13 21:32:54

it's in really bad taste isn't it eminemmerdale?

TattyDevine Thu 23-May-13 21:33:21

I want to see the cringey poem!

Some of these comments though honestly

ChippingInLovesSpring Thu 23-May-13 21:34:21

Thankfully I haven't seen the poem, the various comments have been cringe worthy enough hmm

My heart goes out to his family (& friends), it's beyond comprehension.

glamourousgranny42 Thu 23-May-13 21:35:22

I saw a tweet which said " what would happen if we went to Islam and burnt their flag"!!!! I despair at these idiots I really do

MissBetseyTrotwood Thu 23-May-13 21:35:58

Every time I read or hear something downright stupid or depressing said about what happened (R4 PM interview case in point) I remind myself of that cub scout leader http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/10075376/Mother-who-confronted-Woolwich-terrorists-thought-better-me-than-a-child.html who intervened and I feel much, much better about the human race...

MissBetseyTrotwood Thu 23-May-13 21:36:31
MissBetseyTrotwood Thu 23-May-13 21:37:14

again

Sorry.

Repeatedlydoingthetwist Thu 23-May-13 21:40:28

Oh Glamourous that made me actually laugh out loud! I've heard that Islam is lovely this time of year wink

SissySpacekAteMyHamster Thu 23-May-13 21:41:54

I have (unfortunately) looked at some of the comments on links people have posted on FB today and I despair!

Then again, I seem to remember a paediatrician getting beat up during a mob violence incident after a paedophile had been discovered somewhere (sorry a bit vague), but mob rule is scary.

You can almost hear the pitchforks being sharpened.

Booyhoo Thu 23-May-13 21:47:11

missbetsy im just glad that it was her that approached and not one of the people who are responsible for the idiotic comments reposted here. can you imagine how much worse things could have been if it had been, for example, the person suggesting 'we' hmm go to islam and burn their flags!

eminemmerdale Thu 23-May-13 21:47:40

it is awful - the poem I mean

gillywillywoo Thu 23-May-13 21:49:18

Someone on facebook today...

"I'm not racist and actually I don't think that we should send Muslims back to where they came from. But at least half of them should go back "

confused

differentkindofpenguin Thu 23-May-13 21:52:19

Saw this on Facebook today-

" not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims"

Where do you even start????? facepalm

Ezza1 Thu 23-May-13 21:55:34

"Deport the cunts that killed are soldier"

Deport them to where? confused

YokoUhOh Thu 23-May-13 21:59:05

I am shock at the photos of Enoch Powell suddenly infiltrating Facebook; do you think half these people had heard of him before today?

My cousin 'liked' a photo on the 'Britain First' page hmm and I noticed this comment below one of the insane ranting status updates:

'i Wang on our soil ever again. Rip h.m.soldier.s Sad to think a calious action would and could happen on Brittish soil. britain needs to tighten up on homeland security and stop this tradgedy from ever happeni'

And then he just gave up, presumably.

picnicbasketcase Thu 23-May-13 21:59:48

I'm avoiding FB, I keep going shock at the sheer idiocy. Muslamic proper gander anyone? confused

My Favourite status today...

"Jimmy saville the vile perv abused and raped kids for decades. So grab your pitch forks and round up anyone that runs a marathon, smokes a cigar of wears a tracksuit the bastards and kill them dead with torture."

I love my friends! smile

Doodledumdums Thu 23-May-13 22:01:20

Luckily my FB has remained pretty stupidity free today, however I was amused to learn earlier that EDF energy have been subjected to loads of twitter abuse because of people confusing them with the EDL.

MissBetseyTrotwood Thu 23-May-13 22:02:57

Booyhoo - exactly. What a woman.

DownstairsMixUp Thu 23-May-13 22:08:07

I have a contender. Just seen this status pop up in my mini news feed (a friend has commented on their friends status, please bear in mind this person is NOT on my friends list)

Every mosque should be blown up in this country
They are breeding grounds for these terrorist scum

I am at the photos of Enoch Powell suddenly infiltrating Facebook; do you think half these people had heard of him before today?

I saw someone spell his name Eknock

IneedAyoniNickname Thu 23-May-13 22:12:03

I saw one about the soldier being 'british born n bread' have to admit it made me chuckle

There has been some of this appearing on my Facebook too...it's dire and makes me want to throw heavy blunt objects (possibly a dictionary?!) at the offenders.

poor english alert

"They say dnt paint them all with the same brush,bt ya cani help it specially when things lyk this happens.Think they need t gt everyone eh them t fuck n bk t there own country lyk"

YokoUhOh Thu 23-May-13 22:17:08

AKiss Ecknock, as in 'EggNog' perhaps? Brilliant.

I also spotted a chihuahua making the sensitive yet incisive comment 'BNP!' on another status. I think it was a chihuahua anyway, that's what the profile pic led me to believe.

roadkillbunny Thu 23-May-13 22:18:31

From booyhoo

missbetsy im just glad that it was her that approached and not one of the people who are responsible for the idiotic comments reposted here. can you imagine how much worse things could have been if it had been, for example, the person suggesting 'we' go to islam and burn their flags!

Would never happen, the people who spout this shit wouldn't have the guts to stand up. Hot air, posturing and only going into situations where they know they have the upper hand.

All this is just vile. I stayed off Facebook because I just couldn't face the thought of having to delete friends however when I finally went on I was really pleased to say I had non of this, only one very young girl (U16) who commented about them being treated in hospital but she was corrected in a loving way by her mother and others, she accepted quickly she was wrong and it came from anger and fear. I can't see her making the same mistake again.
Seems the culls I have had to make before where effective in getting rid of the undesirables that had slipped through my net.

ivykaty44 Thu 23-May-13 22:19:26

I was amused to learn earlier that EDF energy have been subjected to loads of twitter abuse because of people confusing them with the EDL.

never under estimate the stupidity of some people....

DownstairsMixUp Thu 23-May-13 22:24:12

Ooh this is a share from said status:

Edl till i die and also whtid not in that order thro

Wut?

YokoUhOh Thu 23-May-13 22:29:18

Downstairs West Ham Til I Die...? confused

DownstairsMixUp Thu 23-May-13 22:31:21

Ooh yes, thanks for that, was not getting it at all!

FrankellyMyDearIDontGiveADamn Thu 23-May-13 22:35:00

I saw the pictures on twitter showing the "Never surrender to Aslan" banner. Sounds like we're at war with Narnia hmm

Oh and I saw a link to an EDL moron supporter talking about "Muslamic rayguns".

BriansBrain Thu 23-May-13 22:36:23

Face book pages advising posters that it was an EDL (English Defence League) protest not EDF energy hmm

Booyhoo Thu 23-May-13 22:36:38

"Seems the culls I have had to make before where effective in getting rid of the undesirables that had slipped through my net."

same here. i really was expecting to have to defriend lots of idiots but i am really relieved to not have found even one questionable comment on my newsfeed. yet.

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 23-May-13 22:37:04

DuttyWine

I saw someone comment on EDL's photo on fb... Something like... "That xxx should be sent back where he came from apart from the woman who stood over the man who was the same colour as him..." Wtaf????

I must stress I am not friends with the person someone I subsequently deleted shared an EDL photo so I had a nosey at the comments and was appalled.

[NOTE: post edited by MNHQ to remove racist term]

Hello - just to let you know, this post was reported because it quoted a gratuitously racist term, so we've edited that out now.

MalcolmTuckersMum Thu 23-May-13 22:41:14

God - I shouldn't but grin at 'muslamic ray guns'. I can see a big gap in the market for Idiot Seeking Missiles and Twat-o-Zord destruction systems. Mark my words. This time next year I'll be a millionaire grin

Booyhoo Thu 23-May-13 22:42:42

Aslan? aslan? i honestly cannot believe how bloody ignorant people are about things they appear so compelled to 'fight' against. hmm

Lj8893 Thu 23-May-13 22:50:20

Never surrender to Aslan!!!! That is just brilliant, what an idiot.

squeaver Thu 23-May-13 22:50:21

You might be interested to know that the EDL recently protested in front of the Brighton Pavillion as they thought it was a mosque....

MNBlackpoolandFylde Thu 23-May-13 22:53:36

Did anyone see the very angry ex army MP on Daybreak this morning who declared in anger anyone who commited crimes such as this and was violent should be put on first plane and their own country left to deal with them.

Wasn't the suspect born in Lambeth?

Lj8893 Thu 23-May-13 22:56:32

One of the attackers was originally from Essex I believe, so apparently we should send them back there.

Doodledumdums Thu 23-May-13 22:57:25

ivykaty44....I have just realised that what I wrote made no sense! I should have written... I was amused to learn earlier that EDF energy have been subjected to loads of twitter abuse because of people confusing them FOR the EDL- not WITH!

Although I think it was probably clear what I meant!

FrankellyMyDearIDontGiveADamn Thu 23-May-13 22:57:55

The Aslan banner. I got the wording a bit wrong, but you get the point!

I thought it was photoshopped to begin with, but no, I now believe them to be that stupid.

Repeatedlydoingthetwist Thu 23-May-13 22:58:50

I've just seen the poem. Words fail me. Someone took actual time out of their lives to write that mawkish shit.

EduCated Thu 23-May-13 23:01:12

Seems my FB culls have been effective, only one borderline comment and plenty of sensible, well reasoned ones.

DownstairsMixUp Thu 23-May-13 23:02:53

The irony of a comment I just seen on my facebook "send the bastards home" said comment is from person living in Romford, so send him back home to Romford then yeah? Dumbass.

SkiBunnnnny Thu 23-May-13 23:06:11

On my Facebook:

In the Middle East if you get caught stealing you get your hand cut off. In the UK you murder someone in the middle of the street and you get treated in hospital. There's something wrong here.

I was tempted to reply that it was true, it is wrong to cut someone's hand off for stealing.

quoteunquote Thu 23-May-13 23:09:57

no place for hate

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/23/woolwich-attack-far-right-three-points?CMP=twt_gu In the wake of the spike in far-right activity, the risk of 'cumulative extremism' is one of the issues that should occupy minds]]

EDL will exploit this crime.

To say Islamic terrorist represent the muslim religion, Is like saying the Ku Klux Klan represent the christian religion.

stick some of these on your FB.

FrankellyMyDearIDontGiveADamn Thu 23-May-13 23:16:09

Have you seen this tweet?

Because of course it was them Muslims wot killed Van Gogh....

<bangs head on table>

FrankellyMyDearIDontGiveADamn Thu 23-May-13 23:17:44

Ok, I've just realised he's referring to the Dutch film maker who was murdered, but still Salman Rushdie? WTAF?

namechangeofshame Thu 23-May-13 23:31:53

"Frenkelly" love the comment below that EDL tweet "if he's going to live here he needs to learn English".

That poem is awful btw!

xylem8 Thu 23-May-13 23:49:06

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

FrankellyMyDearIDontGiveADamn Thu 23-May-13 23:57:05

40% of people polled. Not "40% of British Muslims". I am white British and attended an all girls school with a significant % of Muslim pupils, I never once heard anything that could be interpreted as "hatred of the West".

In every walk of life you will have extremists and idiots with moronic views. Islamic terrorists are not representative of the majority of Muslims, in the same way that the Ku Klux Klan are not representative of Christians; Nazi's are not representative of the majority of German's and I want to make it damn clear that the EDL are not, and never will, be representative of my cultural heritage as a white Briton.

FanjoForTheMammaries Fri 24-May-13 00:00:10

A colleague whom I like shocked me by posting some picture saying its illegal for soldiers to wear uniforms in public now so why the hell can people wear burkas which are "proven to threaten our security" and another postd a video called 'the hideous Muslim infiltration of Britain".

Am seriously tempted to look for a job elsewhere

FanjoForTheMammaries Fri 24-May-13 00:01:10

Xylem..what a load of shite

CalamityKate Fri 24-May-13 00:03:03

That poem has just popped up on my news feed. Cringesome.

Booyhoo Fri 24-May-13 00:05:47

i'm thinking Xylem has seen some of her friends' comments (or some very similar) reposted here. you'd be better off hiding your friends if that's the case Xylem.

kikid Fri 24-May-13 00:06:24

Muslims do want Sharia law in Britain.
It seems this is the beginning of the end really.. [sad]

FanjoForTheMammaries Fri 24-May-13 00:07:33

The beginning of the end of people using their brains and not believing any old toss maybe

Booyhoo Fri 24-May-13 00:08:13

the end of what? confused

IneedAyoniNickname Fri 24-May-13 00:12:26

None of the Muslims I know want Sharia law in England. Some might, possibly, probably. But not all.

Some Christians, including some that I know, think we should go back to the days when women who have children out of wedlock should be locked up and have their children removed! Some Christians think homosexuality should be illegal. But only some.

And while things like this are a minority view, within a civilised society, where we have the right to vote, then I'm not sure we should worry.

This is so badly worded, I hope it makes sense confused

namechangeofshame Fri 24-May-13 00:14:48

100% of my muslim friends and family consider themselves British (because they are) and would probably leave if sharia law ever became a possibility.

Therefore that represents everyone in Britain.

Only it doesnt because I didn't ask everyone. [Hmm]

Darkesteyes Fri 24-May-13 00:14:50

I think ive seen that poem if its a fairly long one on my fb feed. And one racist comment which was liked by 3 people. The same ppl who either used to bully me at school or treat me like i was beneath them.

I wouldnt mind surrendering to Aslan Wasnt he voiced by Liam Neeson smile

Booyhoo Fri 24-May-13 00:22:13

the poem i've seen isn't that long. 2/3 verses i think.

vintagecakeisstillnice Fri 24-May-13 00:22:37

Radical Muslims want Sharia law

Radical Christians want the abortion law reversed, want women to acknowledge their place as mans 'helpmate' rather than a person with rights of their own. . . Etc etc

Extremists are extremists are extremist are extreme no matter what the religion. All seem to be focused on forcing their views on others.

Which I can't understand surely if you honestly believe deep in your heart and soul that your religion is the 'right' one then shouldn't you believe that your God will bring people to it?

In the same way a dickhead is a dickhead is a dickhead no matter the colour, race,gender. . . .

doubleshotespresso Fri 24-May-13 00:24:49

I have just had the following on my page:

" it is of course true that not all Muslims are terrorists, most of them are busy running peaedophile rings"

Yes thats how they spelt it. And the "poster" teaches in a Primary school.... Beautiful.

I have reported the links, photos and pages o FB and deleted er leaving a message.

xylem8 Fri 24-May-13 00:27:04

the opinion poll was conducted by icm who are highly reputable,independent founder members of the british polling council meaning they have robust sampling methods.

namechangeofshame Fri 24-May-13 00:27:46

Oh ffs just read that "poll" quoting 40% of Muslims want sharia law.

It's an icm poll from 2006 had since been deleted from their site and interviewed 400 people, 400 to represent all muslims hmm.

And where did they source those 400? And they ignore the fact that means 60% so, what, 240 of 400 didn't want it?

I work in pr and for our coverage seeking surveys er have to survey 2000 people to get coverage or we aren't considered even slightly representative. And our questions are always tailored to get the answer we want by confusing wording, giving me multiple choice answers that agree with us than don't etc

Look into stuff before buying its bullshit pp.

namechangeofshame Fri 24-May-13 00:29:34

So much for reputable xylem.

Pinebarrens Fri 24-May-13 00:30:52

amongst the virtual candles i saw this from a serviceman who I've known all my life but i realised yesterday i dont actually know him at all.

'we should do what Hitler did only this time to the right people.'

8 people liked this post, therefore 9 people thought this was a good idea shock

Booyhoo Fri 24-May-13 00:32:58

so all that poll tells you Xylem is that in 2006, 160 people wanted sharia law. do you know how many people lived in britain in 2006?

vintagecakeisstillnice Fri 24-May-13 00:34:55

Oh and as an OH of a forces personnel it is not nor , to my knowledge ever been illegal for them to wear their uniforms in public. I accept I might be wrong. . . I am an immigrant grin

It was suggested that it might not be a good idea by some to not go out in uniform. it is possible and acceptable for senior officers to order juniors not to wear uni outside, this does not make it illegal in civil law.

IneedAyoniNickname Fri 24-May-13 00:40:57

When my brother got married, a family member of his wife, had to get special permission to wear his navy uniform to tie wedding. Or maybe it was only a part of the uniform he needed permission for, I'mnot sure.

Just to clarify, though

The "Aslan" poster is indeed photoshopped

Original here. Photoshopped version here.

I don't think anyone genuinely confused EDF and the EDL

If you look at the Twitter feeds of all the people featured in the screenshot that's been widely circulated, it's clear that they were being faux-naif and trying to take the piss out of the reported tendency of the public to get confused. Then someone at EDF took it seriously and earnestly tweeted them all to deny involvement, and then it all went viral. EDF presumably noticed after a while, though, as all their tweets on the subject are gone now.

But for all of you in search of evidence of public stupidity ...

This appears to be genuine, as far as I can tell.

Was that his regular uniform or his dress uniform, IneedAyoniNickname?

IneedAyoniNickname Fri 24-May-13 00:47:08

I don't know?

Booyhoo Fri 24-May-13 00:52:32

when Exp and I were together (and talking about marriage) he said he would have to get permission to get married in his dress uniform.

Royal Navy regulations are here -- wearing uniform to a wedding when off duty or on leave is covered by 3809.d(7) and comes under "Occasions on which the Wearing of Uniform is Encouraged (Subject to Local Commander's Direction and Including Security and Threat Assessments)". So need CO's permission but it's generally encouraged.

IneedAyoniNickname Fri 24-May-13 00:58:15

Might have been that then. He was a guest though, not the groom (not sure if that's clear)

Noy sure what hthe point of my post was either. Probably should go to bed grin

No, it's interesting to talk about individual cases. Because there does seem to be a perception among some that the wearing uniform has been banned because of PC gorn maaaaad, but the actual situation is massively complicated and involved in a reassuringly British fashion (i.e. why have one simple rule when you can have a whole host of intersecting rules that have evolved over centuries?).

Booyhoo Fri 24-May-13 01:12:22

slightly off topic but i was really saddened yesterday (before the attack in woolwich had happened) when a soldier i met online (dating) refused to come to the town where i live or the next one over for a drink because of the risk to his safety (i live in NI). i honestly didn't realise it was still that dangerous here for them. and my town really isn't a bad area at all.

IneedAyoniNickname Fri 24-May-13 01:13:16

Oh good, glad you didn't think I was weird posting random irrelevant shite!

All I was told was that he had to get permission to wear it, and that he looked fit

crazynanna Fri 24-May-13 01:24:37
vintagecakeisstillnice Fri 24-May-13 01:26:10

Just to clarify, yes they would have e to get permission from their senior officers, but it isn't illegal.

If they did wear full or dress uniform without permission, well they would have to accept their fine/ punishment in line with army rules and regs, but a police officer couldn't arrest a soldier for walking down the street in uniform.

When the EDL came to Brighton to demonstrate a few weeks ago, they posted pics of the 'huge mosque', how were Muslims allowed to build such a huge mosque etc. It was the Brighton Pavillion FFS.

JakeBullet Fri 24-May-13 06:59:35

Stupid comment?

The EDL supporter who tweeted

"Let's burn down a Mosque and kill a few Sikhs"

A Sikh friend of mine said "I don't know whether to laugh or cry".

FrankellyMyDearIDontGiveADamn Fri 24-May-13 07:20:49

When we got married in 2008 DH didn't need permission to wear his dress uniform (RAF No1s), but we did have to notify the police out of courtesy as we had a Guard of Honour carrying ceremonial swords.

DH has worn his uniform to the local Remembrance Parade several times and has never had to ask permission. They are actively encouraged to do so for such occasions. We also have 2 US Airforce bases near here. The American servicemen always come into town at lunchtime in their day to day uniforms. It's highly encouraged in the US and there have been plenty of cases of US servicemen/women being allowed to travel for free/jump queues etc.

ImTooHecsyForYourParty Fri 24-May-13 07:30:35

Most stupid comment I've come across is the woman on my fb who said that they should be 'sent back'

stupid enough but the full thing was she knows they're british born but they should be sent back!

To WHERE?!

So if we commit a terrible crime we get sent back to where our parents, grandparents, great grandparents etc were from?

Bloody stupid woman.

I just deleted her.

loofet Fri 24-May-13 07:47:59

Sadly my own Mum has to be the stupidest i've come across... She came over yesterday and said how awful it was so I agreed expecting the conversation to end there but she went on..

'They should be sent back where they came from'.. They're British mum. 'Yeah exactly and they do that to their own. The police should have killed them, if they were in America they wouldn't still be alive. Now they'll be getting all the hospital treatment and go to prison paid for by our taxes. Should just have killed them there and then'.

This is my mother ffs, this is what i've had to deal with. I did correct her but she won't listen to me. This is the same woman who is of the thinking we shouldn't donate to Africa because they shouldn't have kids if they can't afford them though. Her views are abhorrent to me tbh, I just wish she'd open her mind.

Spice17 Fri 24-May-13 07:55:16

Someone I'm 'friends' with on FB said:

People can and will argue that Muslims aren't all bad, but from my experience they are!! And they are here for one reason,, to take advantage of our soft ass government that are to scared to shut the gates and send the fuckers dancing around in the dresses saying fuck the British home, I've had enough of seeing them take the piss out of this once great country, and to be honest would enjoy nothing more than seeing the evil bastards get sent back to the shit rat infested holes they came from!!

I come from a village and am really saddened that a lot of the younger people there i.e. my age seem to hold these uneducated, despicable views.

Spice17 Fri 24-May-13 07:57:13

Oh and I've seen lots of 'send them back' stuff too but said that my Black great grandfather came over here many years ago, so should I be 'sent back' too? That shut a few people up grin

FanjoForTheMammaries Fri 24-May-13 08:23:21

The guy who tweeted about burning a mosque and killing Sikhs was being sarcastic and doing an impression of an EDL tweet..he even used hashtag #EDLtweet, thankfully.

The give away was the correct spelling, EDL members would spell Sikh 'Seak'

That does seem a bit harsh on Romford, Spice17...

Amrapaali Fri 24-May-13 08:45:41

This thread is giving me a much needed chuckle.

Chuckle? Hell, I laughed out loud many times! Aslan? EDF?

I am on Page 3. Back to the thread to finish. Don't disturb me please...

eminemmerdale Fri 24-May-13 09:05:16

The 'muslamic ray Guns' is actaully 'Muslamic Rape gangs' - ds has the video on his phone as it is just so insanely hilarious.

Spice17 Fri 24-May-13 09:07:58

Trolliver grin

PeterParkerSays Fri 24-May-13 09:20:28

My favourite is still the twerp from Woolwich saying "we should sen them back to where they came from".

In the case of the man with blood on his hands, would that be Lambeth or Romford then? Go for Lambeth as the hospital in Romford is crap and he'd have a reasonable chance of dying before he gets on trial.......

They just don't see how cretinous these agruments are. He was born here, and converted from Christianity. Where would we send him back to?

If these people want to send people who convert to different religions "back to where they didn't came from, well DH and I converted to catholicism as adults. We were pondering in bed last night whether we'd prefer to be "sent back to" Rome or Ireland. grin No more preposterous than espousing sending law abiding British muslims to some random country because of the behaviour of 2 bigots with machetes.

PeterParkerSays Fri 24-May-13 09:21:44

Kinda cross posted with Spice17.

Free airfares for us then..... grin

pinkballetflats Fri 24-May-13 09:42:48

I was challenging some people on FB yesterday and this one particular girl couldn't understand my analogy regarding me being a practising Christian doesn't necessarily mean I hold the same belief as the congregation at the Westboro Baptist Church ergo just because someone is Muslim doesn't mean they hold the same beliefs of extremist muslim ideals. Her reply to was:

Well I'm a Christian because I was Christened but I don't believe in it. All Muslims believe the same thing because they believe completely in their religion."

Im still scratching my head.

Ironically this girl was spouting that she's extremely well educated, that Im a dumb ass, and with regards to religion and Islam especially, she knows just about all there is to know. Apparently Living in Leicester has enlightened her with this knowledge and I should come and live there if I "love Muslims so much." I didn't have the heart to tell her I already do.

Booyhoo Fri 24-May-13 10:08:27

Oh pink that is funny! You should have told her!

Honestly though i really am depressed by some/ most of these comments.

insancerre Fri 24-May-13 10:22:23

with regards to servicemen and women not being able to wear uniform in the street, this was the case when my dh was in the RAF in the 1980s and 1990s
it was because of the terrorist threat from the IRA

FanjoForTheMammaries Fri 24-May-13 10:24:41

Well..fair enough but my point was it was compared to people wearing islamic dress which the picture said "shouldn't be allowed as it threatened our security".

OxfordBags Fri 24-May-13 10:33:45

I'm struggling to understand how two sick idiots killing one person constitutes a terrorist attack. It's bloody awful, but it's hardly terrorism. And it also pisses me off how everyone is fetishing the fact that the deceased was in the army. Does that make his death more tragic than if they'd killed a builder or a bloke who works in B&Q?!

What about all the white people who would identify as Christian who attack or even kill non-whites for racist reasons? These must be terrorist attacks too, if we use the logic of this tragic case, and yet, strangely enough, the media is not screaming about this form of 'terrorism', which is far more common.

I'm lucky that I don't have any friends who have posted ignorant things on FB, but that's possibly because I won't associate with anyone who doesn't have even a rudimentary understanding of grammar and punctuation. You pedantically weed out the thickos, you automatically get rid of the racists and twats.

I do, however, know someone who thought Brighton Pavillion was a mosque, although they didn't have a problem with that.

xylem8 Fri 24-May-13 10:40:05

it doesn't look as though they were acting alone, Oxfordbags, there have been other arrests

OxfordBags Fri 24-May-13 10:52:06

Well, until everyone involved has been found guilty, then it is still irresponsible to categorically call it terrorism. It's just lazy, inflammatory racism until then.

What about all the counter-attacks on muslims, or, indeed, anyone that idiot racists believe is 'to blame'? Surely that is terrorism too.

insancerre Fri 24-May-13 10:52:20

but they deliberately targeted a soldier, not someone from B&Q
soldier = symbol of government and war in Afghanistan = terrorism
which fits this definition I found online-

"The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons."
www.thefreedictionary.com/terrorism

HighJinx Fri 24-May-13 10:52:42

You pedantically weed out the thickos, you automatically get rid of the racists and twats.

This is one of the more ridiculous comments I have read.

OxfordBags Fri 24-May-13 10:55:26

It's also one of the more tongue in cheek comments you'll read.

Although I have come across very few intelligent racists. The two are generally not mutually compatible.

OxfordBags Fri 24-May-13 10:57:08

Insancerre, please reread what I put - I meant that a soldier being killed is not more tragic than anyone else being killed. I understand fully why he was targetted, I just don't like this notion that his death is somehow worse than anyone else's.

pinkballetflats Fri 24-May-13 10:58:56

My personal favourite from yesterday:

"Not all Muslims are terrorists...." we all know the rest.

I posted that the KKK should be informed, because that would go down a TREAT!!!

Obviously it is debatable whether or not the KKK would be defined as terrorists, but if we're to take the actions of the two men and the media's defining them as terrorists then the KKK would fit.

Also had to laugh at the bloke who decided that my rhetorical questions designed to get him yo think about his stereotyping tendencies meant that I actually believe all council house occupants are thick,lazy wasters, all Welsh people are rude, all vegetarians are Nazis and all people with blue eyes must like steak and kidney pies since I have blue eyes and love steak and kidney pies. I did give home the definition of a rhetorical question but Important pretty sure he still didn't get it.

insancerre Fri 24-May-13 11:00:39

I actually think it is more tragic, because a random attack on a worker from B&Q or anyone else would still be shocking and sickening
But to be killed just because of the job that you do, is more tragic, I think.

Saltire Fri 24-May-13 11:03:24

This whole incident in Woolwich ahs certainly opened my eyes to the opinions of some people. Someone posted on DH's wall last night that he (DH) wasn't showing solidarity with his fellow soldiers (well DH isn't in the Army for a start) and he had no respect for the Army, and no respect for white people, and that he is an embarrasment to his comrades. (well as i said DH isn't army and if his fellow RAF colleagues think he's an embarassment that up to them)just becasue he refused to post umpteen pictures of candles and pictures of the deceased soldier.
As Dh himself said, he can sympathise his family and feel terrible grief and waryness about it all, but he shouldn't have to put pictures and quotes and poems on his facebook wall to prove this!

FrankellyMyDearIDontGiveADamn Fri 24-May-13 11:04:28

Terrorism does not have to involve large numbers. If it is an attack designed to intimidate and install fear, then it is terrorism.

Lovecat Fri 24-May-13 11:04:36

Someone on my feed liked an innocuous RIP page and one of the comments below it was along the lines of 'they shouldn't allow muslims to even buy machetes, there ought to be security checks for this sort of thing' confused

Quite apart from the fact that the Muhammad Saleem (a Muslim) was killed in Birmingham with a machete by a white man, how tf do they think that's going to work??

Lovecat Fri 24-May-13 11:05:33

sorry, random 'the' in there...

Madmum24 Fri 24-May-13 12:14:42

"You see, they shouldn't let blacks into the West" FGS

limitedperiodonly Fri 24-May-13 12:56:51

Sky keep re-running a brief interview with a woman laying flowers at the scene. She says that the government should 'make more of a stand' but declines to say what that ought to be though I have my suspicions.

OxfordBags Fri 24-May-13 13:34:26

Insancerre, does it then follow that it is more tragic when a prostitute is killed for being a prostitute than when non-prostitute women are killed? Because, if your logic is the one a lot of people are using, why is it not extended to stuff like that? Not being goady, it is a genuine thing to think about,musing your logic.

I don't like the fetishisation of a death. It just adds to a general grief porn in society, and, instead of being about the tragedy of that person's untimely death, as people profess, it turns them into a mere symbol for people, a catalyst for people to let out their feelings, be those grief on one side, or hatred and racism on the flipside. It's not bad to use something as a catalyst to let out one's feelings, but people need to be honest that their reactions are about them, not the dead.

limitedperiodonly Fri 24-May-13 13:44:58

Lee Rigby was apparently murdered because he was a soldier, so though I don't think he personally is worth more than milkman, his murder is more significant because it's an attack on the state and therefore us all.

It was terrorism and the charges ought to reflect that and if found guilty that should be recognised in the judge's sentencing remarks.

fromparistoberlin Fri 24-May-13 14:09:20

The Islamic Society of Britain is shite ! Two faced bastards, they preach hate and vitriol in their mosques, there is no medium ground for muslims, they pretty much say, if you aint one of us we will "kill you" Christians V Muslims ... game on !

someone posted this, no me obvssss

ARealDame Fri 24-May-13 14:33:54

I don't think its really the time to gleefully insult people as stupid in the way it is being done here, almost as a sport, given the sad and terrible events recently.

If the sneering attitude of the OP and other posters is meant to somehow prove them to be superior and on the 'moral high ground', I think its failed.

FanjoForTheMammaries Fri 24-May-13 14:41:39

I think it's heartening and a much needed counterpoint to all the Islamaohobic shite going around at the moment.

AnyFucker, this is brilliant:

I hate being a member of the "human" race sometimes

That I am affiliated in some way to some people is a source of constant distress to me.

ProphetOfDoom Fri 24-May-13 15:00:05

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Lweji Fri 24-May-13 15:36:34

I don't think its really the time to gleefully insult people as stupid in the way it is being done here, almost as a sport, given the sad and terrible events recently.

People who spout such stupid and dangerous drivel are stupid. And dangerous.
And it makes me sad that there are such people around, as much as that there are terrorists.

It's not being treated as a sport, and I'm glad that reasonable people do put forward their more (yes) enlightened views.

limitedperiodonly Fri 24-May-13 15:42:53

So what would you call people who've said some of the things reported on this thread arealdame?

I've just spoken to someone I like who's said almost the same thing as the woman on Sky I talked about - that it's the Government's fault for being 'too lenient.'

As I said, I like him, had no wish for an argument and it's not as hateful as things others have said, so I just nodded instead of asking him what he thought should happen.

But it is a stupid thing to say, particularly because he's of Greek Cypriot descent and I'm frequently treated to his rants about the British Army now and the behaviour of the British Government over Cyprus in the past.

EldritchCleavage Fri 24-May-13 15:45:06

Oxford, there was some interesting discussion of the 'what is terrorism, is this terrorism?' point in the US media after the Boston bombing. The White House studiously avoided calling it terrorism initially. If I can find the link I'll post it up for you.

I don't think its really the time to gleefully insult people as stupid in the way it is being done here, almost as a sport, given the sad and terrible events recently.
If the sneering attitude of the OP and other posters is meant to somehow prove them to be superior and on the 'moral high ground', I think its failed.

Hmmnn. Frankly, laughing at the extravagant stupidity and bigotry of some of the people all over FB and Twitter at the moment is a pretty healthy response I think. I'm not from the Middle East but very much look as though I could be (bi-racial) so I'm a prime target for these shits. My father is a black man with a beard, plenty of people assume he is a Muslim. You think we don't worry about reprisals? Reading this sneering is cheering me up no end, thanks.

limitedperiodonly Fri 24-May-13 16:13:36

I do find it interesting that lots of these comments mention money - as in the OP 'why are we paying to treat them on the nhs?', and I suppose 'why are we paying to put them on trial?' and 'why are we keeping them in a comfy prison?'

I won't hear the same people saying: 'Why do we spend money on the armed forces of which Lee Rigby was a member, or the police who arrested his killers, or the bullets they used or the electricity to plug the chair into?'

Obviously these people exist in a world where you only spend money on people and things you like. Much like this government, which is the only criticism of them in this regard that I'll take.

limitedperiodonly Fri 24-May-13 16:19:40

Oh joy. Nick Griffin's been down there.

EduCated Fri 24-May-13 17:49:01

I will happily sneer at racist bigotry any day of the week.

plainjaney Fri 24-May-13 17:54:29

I'd made a comment on FB yesterday about how I'd be interested to see where the 'send em back' brigade were planning on sending the British Terrorists to, the response?

'To the land their parents came from!'

Made me laugh actually, I didn't think anyone could be that dense but obviously I was wrong.

lubeybooby Fri 24-May-13 18:03:24

This bright spark was really informed, intelligent, articulate and eloquent about the EDL's aims I thought www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIPD8qHhtVU

ImTooHecsyForYourParty Sat 25-May-13 13:39:57

Me too, EduCated.

I also do actually consider myself superior to vile arseholes who spout hateful, racist and frankly ignorant bollocks and appear to have the IQ of a small piece of cheese. eg, send them back - despite the fact they were born in Britain. Never surrender to aslan - erm, think you mean Islam, you plank. We hate Muslamic infadels who bring their interracial law to the UK...

If I didn't truly feel that I am better than that, I'd be so depressed.

jidelgin Sat 25-May-13 14:05:52

Isn't Woolwich a suburb/district? I know it's an emotive topic but it seems disrespectful to refer to what happened to Drummer Lee Rigby as "Woolwich"

squeakytoy Sat 25-May-13 14:41:42

it happened in woolwich..

other tragedies are known by their location... ie Soham, Dunblane..

I wouldnt say it is disrespectful. Everyone knows what the subject is about.

LaGuardia Sat 25-May-13 16:16:54

I am not understanding the outpouring of grief, tbh. A trained killer was killed. But then, I am a pacifist.

ImTooHecsyForYourParty Sat 25-May-13 16:24:48

Then I would expect you to be upset and against the murder of someone, LaGuardia.

He wasn't a soldier on duty, killed by enemy fire in a warzone. He was a bloke walking down the street who got hacked to bits.

As a pacifist, I would expect you to be outraged by that. Are pacifists not opposed to violence under any circumstances?

LadyBeagleEyes Sat 25-May-13 16:25:18

A trained soldier was hacked to bits with a machette LaGuardia.
And you, as a pacifist, don't understand why people are shocked by thisconfused?
I'm not seeing outpourings of grief on this thread, just general human feelings about a savage event.

BringBackBod Sat 25-May-13 16:36:31

That's selective pacifism then LaGuardia

WineNot Sat 25-May-13 16:47:13

I am not understanding the outpouring of grief, tbh. A trained killer was killed. But then, I am a pacifist.

A trained killer? Ah, that makes it all ok then. He deserved it.

What an absolutely awful comment to make.

limitedperiodonly Sat 25-May-13 16:49:23

I'm not a slavish fan of the armed forces laguardia but I can think of some other words for you.

But well done, you. Bet you're hugging yourself now.

squeakytoy Sat 25-May-13 16:52:47

A trained man was not out on a battlefield or in a war zone, where there is a reasonable risk he could lose his life. He was walking on OUR streets, in broad daylight, minding his own business.... he was not armed, or in combat.

And you do not understand why people are upset?

Midlifecrisisarefun Sat 25-May-13 16:54:44

Laguarda Does being a pacifist mean you opt out of humanity too? The young man was a father, a musician, as well as a soldier, he was not in uniform, he was not 'in action'. He was hacked to death by two lunatics in the street, not in the field of battle.
As wine says what an awful comment!

squeakytoy Sat 25-May-13 16:55:04

anyway.. the reason I came back to this thread was because of a post that I have just seen on my facebook.. posted by a few of my friends today, including two muslim friends.

Its a bit long, but I found it very interesting.

The author of this email is Dr. Emanuel Tanya, a well-known and well-respected psychiatrist.


A man, whose family was German aristocracy prior to World War II, owned a number of large industries and estates. When asked how many German people were true Nazis, the answer he gave can guide our attitude toward fanaticism.

'Very few people were true Nazis,' he said, 'but many enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more were too busy to care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had lost control, and the end of the world had come. My family lost everything. I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my factories.'

We are told again and again by 'experts' and 'talking heads' that Islam is the religion of peace and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the spectre of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam.

The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history. It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honour-kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to kill and to become suicide bombers.

The hard, quantifiable fact is that the peaceful majority, the 'silent majority,' is cowed and extraneous. Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20 million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant. China's huge population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to kill a staggering 70 million people..

The average Japanese individual prior to World War II was not a warmongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet. And who can forget Rwanda , which collapsed into butchery. Could it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were 'peace loving'?

History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason, we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points: peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don't speak up, because like my friend from Germany , they will awaken one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun.

Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs, Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late.

Now Islamic prayers have been introduced into Toronto and other public schools in Ontario , and, yes, in Ottawa too while the Lord's Prayer was removed (due to being so offensive?) The Islamic way may be peaceful for the time being in our country until the fanatics move in.

In Australia , and indeed in many countries around the world, many of the most commonly consumed food items have the halal emblem on them. Just look at the back of some of the most popular chocolate bars, and at other food items in your local supermarket. Food on aircraft have the halal emblem (see the attachment), just to appease the privileged minority who are now rapidly expanding within the nation’s shores.

In the U.K, the Muslim communities refuse to integrate and there are now dozens of “no-go” zones within major cities across the country that the police force dare not intrude upon. Sharia law prevails there, because the Muslim community in those areas refuse to acknowledge British law.

As for us who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the only group that counts -- the fanatics who threaten our way of life

Tillylils Sat 25-May-13 17:05:31

Someone on my FB said "bring back corporal punishment ". Yes, cane the bastards, that'll learn em.

limitedperiodonly Sat 25-May-13 17:21:56

Shouldn't have bitten, there.

Interesting post squeaky.

However, if I was a muslim I'd probably feel a bit weary at having to explain to people again and again that I wasn't a murderer.

Much like I imagine my dad in the Seventies got tired of having to explain to the hard of thinking that he didn't want to kill British soldiers because he'd been one in World War II because Ireland had been part of Britain when he was born there to a Catholic family.

limitedperiodonly Sat 25-May-13 17:23:09

tillylils they'd probably like it. They're weird bastards

Asheth Sat 25-May-13 17:41:13

Very interesting post Squeaky and I agree with it. But equally we should apply the same logic to the British. How many of us think of the EDL as a bunch of racist nutters who make a nuisance of themselves on demos and are capable of violence, but who will never actually have any real influence on British politics....

LouiseSmith Sat 25-May-13 17:41:38

People are getting annoyed that Racism seems to work on way now days. British people seem to get the rough end of the deal, and one of our boys murdered in broad daylight on home soil really has annoyed people.

I agree something needs to be done about these "terrorists"

limitedperiodonly Sat 25-May-13 17:49:23

Yeah, I'm British and I'm quite frequently annoyed. Something really needs to be done. I've got a list. Does anyone want to read it?

FrankellyMyDearIDontGiveADamn Sat 25-May-13 18:53:33

2 men working at the same company as my friend (currently on maternity leave) have apparently put up Facebook statuses stating that "all Muslims should go back home"

The irony is that their company is owned by the ruler of Dubai hmm. Not sure how much longer they will have jobs.

Beechview Sat 25-May-13 23:14:45

Can I just say a bit about Sharia law mentioned previously?
Sharia law is the law that Muslims need to live by - laws for many personal matters such as prayer, fasting, hygiene, dietery requirements etc. Marriage, funeral rites, family and community come under sharia law too.
Depending on how the survey was conducted and understood, it is likely that most, or all, of the 40% are saying that they want to live their own life by personal sharia law in the UK.
It doesn't mean that they want to see cutting of hands of criminals and stoning of adulterers or for it to become UK law.

PetitFilou Sun 26-May-13 08:28:55

Interesting how among the middle class women on this site the following are unforgivable, and signs of some who can never redeem themselves and should never receive sympathy:
- looking at Internet porn
- having an extra-marital affair
- 'financial abuse'
- expecting your wife to have sex with you ever if she doesn't want to

The following are not:
- hacking a soldier to death with a butcher's cleaver on a busy high street.

limitedperiodonly Sun 26-May-13 08:35:05

A link to a post forgiving his murderers, petitfilou? If you find one we can all condemn it, on the off-chance that nobody else has.

HollyBerryBush Sun 26-May-13 08:37:29

Regarding the deporting, all very well and good to deport but Nigeria already deported him back here on terrorism charges. Somehow, I don't think they want him either.

FanjoForTheMammaries Sun 26-May-13 08:58:24

PetitFilou that is one of the most stupid and ignorant posts I have ever read on MN.

PetitFilou Sun 26-May-13 08:58:37

limiedperiod, obviously the people involved know better than to say explicitly the attitudes that are revealed implicitly by what they do say.

Clearly the real perpetrators here are people who can't spell on FB, probably because their school's resources were being focussed on 'English as a foreign language'.

Meanwhile the MC mums (who didn't go to that kind of school), would be joining in the calls for deportation or capital punishment, if only it turned out the Islamic warriors had emotionally abused their wives or gone to strip clubs.

FanjoForTheMammaries Sun 26-May-13 08:59:15

That is the second most.

dear god petit .

EduCated Sun 26-May-13 09:11:13

I'm not MC or a Mum. So you can stop musing about me, dear.

FanjoForTheMammaries Sun 26-May-13 09:13:54

Can now imagine Petit's FB posts wink

limitedperiodonly Sun 26-May-13 09:20:04

You've spelt my name wrongly just to get my middle class, Fairtrade goat haven't you, petitfilou?

I'm not rising to it grin

PetitFilou Sun 26-May-13 09:20:15

EduCated I never said or implied that everyone MN was.

I said 'the middle class women on this site' not 'middle class women on this site'.

Look it up dear.

EduCated Sun 26-May-13 09:28:25

I thought it was fairly implied.

As is the fact that this is a vile, horrific thing to have happened. Can you point out to me where people have said it is forgivable? This thread is simply calling out the racism that's sprouting up left right and centre in the wake of the murder.

namechangeofshame Sun 26-May-13 09:43:40

Ignoring Petit as my brain won't decelerate that fast...

Squeaky very interesting post and actually totally agree up until the point he lost me...

*Now Islamic prayers have been introduced into Toronto and other public schools in Ontario , and, yes, in Ottawa too while the Lord's Prayer was removed (due to being so offensive?) The Islamic way may be peaceful for the time being in our country until the fanatics move in.

In Australia , and indeed in many countries around the world, many of the most commonly consumed food items have the halal emblem on them. Just look at the back of some of the most popular chocolate bars, and at other food items in your local supermarket. Food on aircraft have the halal emblem (see the attachment), just to appease the privileged minority who are now rapidly expanding within the nation’s shores.

In the U.K, the Muslim communities refuse to integrate and there are now dozens of “no-go” zones within major cities across the country that the police force dare not intrude upon. Sharia law prevails there, because the Muslim community in those areas refuse to acknowledge British law.*

The halal emblem is on not as an appeasement but as a sales tactic and working in the meat industry this media belief of all meat being halal is total bollocks. In fact anything with "Quality" connotations is definitely not halal as it ruins the taste of the meat.

There are no "Islamic prayers" that could possibly be introduced unless the population of the school was taught Arabic as standard, you cannot translate, change or write islamic prayers, they are set.

I don't believe there are areas where the police won't go if necessary or where the law of the land doesn't always come first if and when necessary. They may allow Sharia courts to discuss things like divorce and community issues, and these courts may take place secretly without ever informing the authorities but no non-islamic government is going to nod sagely and say "yes you can try that murderer, no worries we won't get involved".

Finally unlike Japan, Germany etc, Islam isn't a country to rise up under the power of one government, we will war with islamic countries but unlike the pope, there is no one "leader" of Islam. There is no head to the snake so there can be no total conglomeration.

On the flipside of that we must remember that all muslims are muslim first and their nationality second. However they also have individual beliefs and as the presence of muslim soldiers, policemen and politicians shows they will live by their belief of their religion, not by the dictat of fanatics.

FanjoForTheMammaries Sun 26-May-13 09:44:23

Of course noone defended the murder.

Petit is either being really unbelievably dim or wilfully disingenuous.

PetitFilou Sun 26-May-13 10:11:23

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

EduCated Sun 26-May-13 10:13:31

Just out of interest, has anyone got any Experimce of reporting racist stuff to the police?

I reported a sickening tweet yesterday using an online form provided by the Met Police. Just wondered if anyone knows how likely they are to act on it/contact me about it?

FanjoForTheMammaries Sun 26-May-13 10:14:42

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FanjoForTheMammaries Sun 26-May-13 10:15:13

Phew that was gone quickly

EduCated Sun 26-May-13 10:17:47

Oh. Wow. I literally have nothing to say to that, apart from the fact the a lot of it is calling out racism, because unfortunately many of the people I've seen have been too cuntishly thick to distinguish between race and religion.

EduCated Sun 26-May-13 10:18:27

Did I just imagine that?! confused

FanjoForTheMammaries Sun 26-May-13 10:19:38

Sadly not, I saw it too.

Anifrangapani Sun 26-May-13 10:22:01

Having read the whole post I can't see where anybody has said anything other than the act was deplorable. At no point has ther been an iota of sympathy been expressed towards the perpertrators. What there has been is a lot of people saying that the anti muslim backlash is unwarranted and mis guided. And this backlash seems to be taken up by uneducated people on facebook, with some often repeated vox pops on the rolling news channels.

KateBeckett Sun 26-May-13 10:23:05

Oh dear lord petit I don't even know where to start...

I personally want the suspects to be treated in hospital, so that they can be put to trial and answer for their crimes. I am assuming that they wanted to be shot and killed considering the way they charged the police, but I would rather they were tried and convicted. Also, you do realise that doctors, paramedics etc dont get to choose who they treat?!

As for comparing islamophobia with feminism... The mind boggles. It truly boggles confused

Anifrangapani Sun 26-May-13 10:23:47

Well that learns me for writing a wordy reply.

limitedperiodonly Sun 26-May-13 10:32:31

Drat! I missed that. I bet it was very inciteful wink

FanjoForTheMammaries Sun 26-May-13 10:41:15

Yes..I suspect we may not hear from that poster again

namechangeofshame Sun 26-May-13 10:41:21

Ok pm with what that was please!

LadyBeagleEyes Sun 26-May-13 10:45:19

That was the quickest deletion ever.

PetitFilou Sun 26-May-13 10:46:29

Obviously my views are not going to get a fair hearing on a site owned by the wife of the deputy editor of the Guardian.

Just remember 30 million people in this country agree with every word I have said, including most or the police and armed forces. They mainly don't work for the media though, so you don't hear a lot about them usually.

FanjoForTheMammaries Sun 26-May-13 10:47:57

Aww I hoped we wouldn't hear any more of this nonsense.

EduCated Sun 26-May-13 10:48:01

Evidence, please.

FanjoForTheMammaries Sun 26-May-13 10:48:58

Obviously your views did get a fair hearing, and were rightfully deleted.

EduCated Sun 26-May-13 10:51:32

* I don't agree with you. Just to clarify. In case you were counting me in that 30m.

Anifrangapani Sun 26-May-13 10:51:51

Sweetheart your view was that the posters on this thread were sympathetic with the 2 men who carried out the killng in Woolich. That is a view that has no evidence and rightly you were called on it.

PetitFilou Sun 26-May-13 10:53:30

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

FanjoForTheMammaries Sun 26-May-13 10:54:18

What poisonous posting.

WorraLiberty Sun 26-May-13 10:54:59

Some wonderful little snippets on Twitter last night...I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

"Bring back Hitler"

"I'd stick them all on a plane and send them back to Islam"

confused

EduCated Sun 26-May-13 11:00:11

We've already established I'm not MC, sweetheart. Nor am I married or in possession of a garden.

I have seen many, many more comments calling out racism, religious hatred and sheer cuntishness on FB, Twitter and in RL than I have views like yours.

But seriously, the evidence for the 30m people agreeing?

limitedperiodonly Sun 26-May-13 11:01:26

Thanks for explaining what Sharia means beechview. I didn't realise that. It would be a shame for your post to get swallowed up in nonsense.

Anifrangapani Sun 26-May-13 11:01:41

Why are you asking other posters for evidence from the nanny et al? It is your view that the previous posters are sympathetic to towards the killers and your inabillity to read and comprehend other peoples posts that is being questioned. Do you feel they may be able to carry out the task better than you?

PetitFilou Sun 26-May-13 11:13:02

Oh yes, the MN golden oldies.

"I'm not middle class, I only earn £75,000 as a senior manager for a local authority social worker department."

"I'm not middle class, I belong to a union... the National Association of Head Teachers."

"I'm not middle class, I spent a million pounds moving into an area where I could send my children to comprehensive school safely."

"I'm not middle class, the only reason I have two degrees is because I'm highly intelligent."

EduCated Sun 26-May-13 11:19:15

I'm not going to justify nor explain myself to you. You quite clearly have an agenda and will not listen to anyone else in trying to push it.

Your very bitter Petit, your posts have nothing to do with what happened in Woolwich, it's all to do with your hatred of the MC. Out of interest where are you getting your 30 million figure from? Don't count me, or any of my friends, colleagues, neighbours, milkman or my shoe shine boy in that figure please.

I'll say in nicely, you are sprouting racist, untrue, hysterical crap.

FrankellyMyDearIDontGiveADamn Sun 26-May-13 11:30:17

Petit I am married to a member of the armed forces. He said you are, and I quote, "batshit crazy". HTH.

EduCated Sun 26-May-13 11:34:29

grin to Frankelly's DH.

forehead Sun 26-May-13 11:36:09

'Batshit crazy'.... I could'nt have put it better myself.

FanjoForTheMammaries Sun 26-May-13 11:36:54

People also say stuff like:

"I'm not racist just Islamophobic"

hmm

LadyBeagleEyes Sun 26-May-13 11:37:22

Weren't you banned from here once Petit?

FanjoForTheMammaries Sun 26-May-13 11:41:22

Well one person says that.

I think the deleted post deserves a consideration of re banning tbh.

Anifrangapani Sun 26-May-13 11:42:03

I love it when the facts don't get in the way of a good arguement.

Batshit crazy is joining makes my piss boil in my dictionary of random insults.

limitedperiodonly Sun 26-May-13 11:50:30

I didn't see the deleted post. Apologies if it was vile.

But generally I don't think you should ban people. It just feeds their fantasy that they're being censored for speaking the truth rather than confused bollocks.

It's usually better to ignore attention-seeking behaviour.

FanjoForTheMammaries Sun 26-May-13 11:52:37

True.

These views could really hurt people though.

limitedperiodonly Sun 26-May-13 11:55:12

Fair enough. I didn't see it

FanjoForTheMammaries Sun 26-May-13 11:56:25

Your point is good though smile

limitedperiodonly Sun 26-May-13 12:02:59

What else would I say? I'm a middle-class mum and I don't agree with smacking wink

FanjoForTheMammaries Sun 26-May-13 12:12:46

You are so PC <high five> winkgrin

chibi Sun 26-May-13 12:17:45

well. it is certainly not great to not look white/to look foreign (whatever that might mean) right now.

i am now actively going to look at ways to go home, and bring my (english, yes, ethnically! english) children with me - have been mulling it over and this has clinched it for me

i don't feel safe anymore, and it is only going to get worse.

i am sorry for that soldier, and i am sorry for all the suffering that is and will be unleashed in the wake of his death

waterlego Sun 26-May-13 12:21:17

I got into a 'debate' (in the loosest possible sense of the word) with a friend of a friend on FB who wanted to 'ship them all back'. I asked for clarification as to whether she meant black people/Muslims/men/people who don't support British Foreign Policy... After much toing and froing, we established that she was referring to Muslims and she went on to say that 'we never should of let them in it the first place', so I furnished her with some historical facts about the presence of Muslims in Britain.

She then went on a bit of an incoherent rant in which she mentioned 'schools with no whites in them' so I asked if she was confused about the difference between skin colour and religion, to which she replied: 'don't bring skin colour into it'. hmm

OxfordBags Sun 26-May-13 12:21:24

Wow. Just wow. I would be ashamed of a small child for suggesting that being anti-racist meant that you supported the brutal murder of an innocent man walking down the street. I mean, it's so stupid, so humiliating to the point of mental illness in an adult to assert such a thing. Except I wouldn't want to insult anyone with MH issues, as that might imply you were all thick, class-obsessed freaks, which you're clearly not...

OxfordBags Sun 26-May-13 12:24:54

PS, Gawd, how I wish that being MC meant you were automatically rich, with a great job and highly educated without having to put any effort in. Sadly, me and Dh live on a pittance and had to work fucking hard for our many qualifications.

waterlego Sun 26-May-13 12:30:01

It's infuriating Oxfordbags. The woman I had a discussion with on FB called me a 'sympathiser' and said I was 'protecting them' and 'on their side'. She implied I didn't give a monkey's about the murdered man or his family and I found that profoundly offensive.

JerseySpud Sun 26-May-13 12:30:23

I'm not MC. I live in a council house, getting income support because my husband doesn't earn much.

But i do have a garden.

and live in Jersey. So maybe i am MC to you....

EduCated Sun 26-May-13 12:31:51

Also intrigued by the implication that only the MC are anti-racist.

OxfordBags Sun 26-May-13 12:45:43

I know, waterlego, it's frightening. To me, how some people go on over these things really gives you an insight into how ordinary people find themselves swept up in horrible regimes, like nazism, because of the pressure, outrage and even threat if you don't tow the party line. Add in state approval and you get something very scary and nasty indeed.

What these vile, ignorant, idiot racists don't understand is that is THEM and THEIR views and action that are an affront to that poor man's death. The tragedy of his murder is totally hijacked for people's own nasty, immature, hatedul agendas. They couldn't care less about his death, however much they wring their hands and bang on with their clichéd wailings and platitudes. Even over the internet, you can feel their eyes lighting up with the excitement of finding what they perceive as the perfect excuse to spout their bile.

They stop everything being about the victim and his loved ones. They make it about hate and blame and segregation and suspicion. Whilst they are not the ones who have killed anyone, it is their poisonous thinking, their disgusting lies that go on to threaten and damage our society more than actual acts of terrorism actually do. Terrorists know this, FFS. Look at at the response of Norway after their terrorist tragedy; they truly have pulled together as a nation and come out stronger because of their mature, measured, rational and non-hysterical reactions to a much greater attack than the murder of a single person, terrible as it was.

Finally, what the racists don't get is that the British - certainly the English, at least - are the most 'mongrel' nation on earth. No other island has been so invaded, has had such a history of constantly mixing and adding (through force or choice) new cultures, languages, food, beliefs, race, etc. And it has made us, a tiny little island with shit weather, in a dull part of the globe, one of the most powerful forces on the planet for centuries. Our multi-culturalism, our mixedness, is our pride and our power. If the racists got their way and 'sent back' anyone with a non-white or non-Christian heritage, they'd probably have to get rid of about 90% of the population of England,if they went far back enough, and that would include themselves.

OxfordBags Sun 26-May-13 12:47:07

Educated, petitfilou also implies that the lower classes are too thick to go to university! But then, why am I expecting logic?!

monicalewinski Sun 26-May-13 12:59:04

A few things on this thread:

Wearing of uniform - I'm forces, we were briefed the day of the killing not to wear uniform in public (as in the 80s with IRA) but this was rescinded by Friday.

Why is this called a terror attack (further upthread) - because the guy that did it SAID it was a terror attack!

I have been so upset watching the footage, especially of the family, and have had to explain to my eldest (11) that the same thing is not likely to happen to me or my husband (we're both RAF) - but I have laughed out loud at some of these posts; this is what the British do, in the face of adversity we club together, make light where we can and laugh (all Brits, regardless of colour or religion).

BrainSurgeon Sun 26-May-13 13:03:34

I must be either very lucky or very MC <not really, as I'm not British> but no-one on my FB made any comments other than to express their sadness/upset with what happened AND make a plea for it NOT to be turned into another wave of anti-islamism.

monicalewinski Sun 26-May-13 13:07:23

Apologies for my last post being completely out of context to the direction this thread has taken, I tried to post yesterday but it didn't go through and just went through now. It made sense yesterday!!

waterlego Sun 26-May-13 13:22:51

Great post Oxfordbags

forehead Sun 26-May-13 14:43:31

Brilliant post Oxford bags

namechangeofshame Sun 26-May-13 16:02:32

Very very good post Oxfrod

And the irony is when you said that they are looking for an excuse for their bile, the perpetrators of this crime did exactly the same. Angry fucked up young men who found a "cause" in fanatical Islam and converted to have a reason to abuse others.

The groups are more similar than they care to admit and we are all sick in the middle.

The question is how do the middle join and fix it?

EduCated Sun 26-May-13 16:05:53

Oxford that had to be the best response I've heard.

HollyBerryBush Sun 26-May-13 17:33:54

I wonder who did the stabbing, on the march, in Woolwich today?

Sadly there has been another incident.

Have you got any details Holly, can't see it on the news.

scaevola Sun 26-May-13 18:43:57

The police say the stabbing is unrelated. Given there are 300 or so knife attacks in London every month, that's sadly plausible.

pinkballetflats Mon 27-May-13 13:33:24

Oxford - you always put things so eloquently. May I take an excerpt of this to post on my FB page? I think these things but clearly lack the panache to get it down in writing in such a succinct and transparent way.

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