To be beyond livid.

(70 Posts)
Altinkum Thu 23-May-13 20:51:46

I posted a few months back, that my uncle was dying and his last wish was to be buried beside his brother (my dad) today he sadly passed away.

My mum and sister has decided that he will be buried beside him, that plot was originally for my mum and sister.
I've had no desisions in this, even tho it was me who paid for the head stone, the flowers, the plaques, etc...

I feel awful and sad that my uncle has passed away, but I've never felt this anger, I've told them both nthats the case, I will remove dads headstone and they will never see me again.

Gruntfuttocks Thu 23-May-13 20:55:08

Don't make any hasty decisions right now - you are all shocked and grieving, and it's not a good time to start issuing ultimatums that you may regret later.

For what it's worth, most grave plots are able to hold a number of people, so just because your uncle is buried there, doesn't mean other family members can't be added later.

Sorry, that sounds really awful, but given how strongly you feel about this, maybe that might have an impact on your decision?

ivanapoo Thu 23-May-13 20:55:34

This must be a hard time for you, bringing up a lot of pain about your father's death.

I will say very gently that at the moment your anger and pain are raw and to cut yourself off from your family over this might be something you regret. At this moment you need to be supporting each other.

Can you reach a compromise?

CinnabarRed Thu 23-May-13 20:56:06

I'm sorry for your loss.

However, I just don't understand either the cause, or the depth, of your anger. It may be reaction/grief/shock.

May I respectfully suggest deferring any decision until you've had some time (and I mean days, not hours) to absorb what's happened?

LittleMissLucy Thu 23-May-13 20:56:15

YABU. People get angry about death and burials and its often just misplaced grief. You're doing yourself more harm than anything and its not worth destroying the relationship with your living relatives.

Have a cup of tea and a stroll around the block.

OHforDUCKScake Thu 23-May-13 20:59:06

Im confused OP, it was your uncles wish to be buried next to his brother but you're angry because this is going to happen?

OHforDUCKScake Thu 23-May-13 21:00:09

"Have a cup of tea a stroll around the block"

Seriously? hmm

CinnabarRed Thu 23-May-13 21:01:25

What's wrong with that? Better than going for a drive or getting smashed, surely.

Altinkum Thu 23-May-13 21:01:27

My dads family beat my mum up so bad that she had to be admitted to a psychiatric hospital for 3 months, 2 weeks after dads death, they left their shoe prints in my mums body, they smashed her windows, they spit and ignore her in the streets, not one of them speak to my mum, including my uncle.

My mum couldn't even attend my sisters wedding die to the anxiety she gets with them.

Yet because of the pressure my sister has put on my mum, and my mum feeling she must because of his last wishes....

Too fooking right am I furious!!!

Oldraver Thu 23-May-13 21:02:39

Who owns the plot ? why is it for your Dad Mum and Sister what about you ?

Altinkum Thu 23-May-13 21:03:17

None of them helped with the funeral costs, instead they stole from the money mum received from the state to pay for it, hence why I needed to pay for the headstone.

Altinkum Thu 23-May-13 21:04:02

Only 3 people can go in, I don't live in Scotland anymore, my life is in England.

MayTheOddsBeEverInYourFavour Thu 23-May-13 21:04:19

Sorry for your loss

I do think YABU but its not an easy situation

Who bought the plot?

CinnabarRed Thu 23-May-13 21:04:40

OK. That does put a different gloss on things.

Would have been helpful to know that from the start.

If your mother is vulnerable to pressure from your sister, how is separating yourself from your mother while leaving her under your sister's influence going to help anything?

HintofBream Thu 23-May-13 21:04:49

Altinkum, sorry but I am not clear, his last wish was to buried beside your dad, but then you say "my mum and sister has decided he will be buried beside him". I don't understand the difference.
Whatever the situation, you must be very, very, sad and upset, but try, as the others have said, not to make any hasty decisions. Plenty of people on here will know you through your posts and will be thinking of you with concern and sympathy.

CinnabarRed Thu 23-May-13 21:05:13

And do you normally like and respect your sister?

You are going to take your dads headstone from your dads resting place because his brother is going to be buried beside him now too?

I can understand your anger, but it doesn't matter who else is there, its still your dads grave too.

It sounds like your mum might need support and understanding rather than you pressuring her too, can you give it a couple of days and calmly talk to her, she might not be strong enough to say no without support.

Sorry you are in this situation sad

MayTheOddsBeEverInYourFavour Thu 23-May-13 21:07:32

Isn't it up to whoever owns the burial plot? Who owns that op?

TSSDNCOP Thu 23-May-13 21:08:55

Could it be that given your fathers family's treatment your mother would prefer to be buried elsewhere?

Altinkum Thu 23-May-13 21:10:53

We found out he was dying a few months back, he told of his wishes then, as a family we decided to stay with the original plan, that the plot was for dad, mum and sister.

He died at 2pm, at around 8ish sister phoned to say that she told dads family that he was being buried beside dad. She went to mums house for the first time since December and sister out pressure on mum, until she relented,!i phoned mum, she knew is be angry, for months and months she has said she does not want to be buried with uncle or on top of uncle.

Altinkum Thu 23-May-13 21:12:36

No my mums wants to be buried in raise her husband, and my sister in beside her mother and father.

Well that was the plan.

Altinkum Thu 23-May-13 21:12:59

Beside

kinkyfuckery Thu 23-May-13 21:14:00

You uncle wanted to be buried next to your dad, and you're angry that's what is happening?
Was your uncle involved in the assault on your mum?If not, why are you so angry with him? If so, why did you pay for the funeral costs?

kinkyfuckery Thu 23-May-13 21:15:25

Oh wait, you paid the costs for your dad's funeral, not your uncle's?

thegreylady Thu 23-May-13 21:17:38

This is so very hard for everyone.Your mum has obviously been intimidated by these horrible people but if she has now given her consent you can't do much unless you can go up there and stand with your mum and say NO.If your mum was assaulted by them did she complain to the police?
Will she stand up to them if you are there?Can you talk to your sister?

Altinkum Thu 23-May-13 21:18:51

I'm not paying the costs of my uncles funeral.

The plot only holds 3 coffins, my dads, mums and sisters - their is only two spaces left, so it means either my mum or sister won't be buried in with dad.

My uncle played a part in the treatment against my mother. He used to walk by her in the street.

LEMisdisappointed Thu 23-May-13 21:23:37

Why did your dads family do that to your mum? Why on earth are any of you having anything to do with that family now? It sounds horrendous flowers

wonderingagain Thu 23-May-13 21:24:30

Blimey. People will tell you to calm down, you're in shock, but I think you absolutely have the right to assert yourself here. You are not next of kin but if you paid for the plot you have rights. Speak to the cemetery and explain the situation.

weisswusrt Thu 23-May-13 21:24:46

Um, have i missed something.....where will you be buried OP? Could the uncle be cremated and scattered next to his brother instead?

Altinkum Thu 23-May-13 21:24:58

Greylady my mum hasn't spoken to them since their attack on her, (9 years ago) no she couldn't go to the police (howver the attack and photos are on her medical records) as she had a complete mental breakdown, she was forced out of my childhood home due to them.

They spit at her in the street, intimidate her (found her address and sent takeaways, emergency services etc) ... She moved again as again, they walk past her in streets shouting and yelling etc....

My sister choose my dads family over my mum to attend her wedding reception, as mum couldn't cope with it, she needed medicated just to attend my sister vows.

Altinkum Thu 23-May-13 21:27:53

Myself and my mum are not, we take very little to do with them, I attend funerals, but that's to represent my dad.

They hate my mum, for having a relationship with my dads alcoholic best friend (my dad was a acute alcoholic and died so).

wonderingagain Thu 23-May-13 21:28:38

These people need an exclusion order put on them to keep away from your mother - is there any way you can arrange that?

Altinkum Thu 23-May-13 21:30:59

Wondering they don't have contact through my mum, they have it through my sister.

She keeps in touch with dads family.

DontmindifIdo Thu 23-May-13 21:34:17

Who owns the plot? Is it your mum? If so, can you talk to her again, tell her you'll speak for her and you will tell your Uncle's family it's not happening - can she sign it over to you at all? If so, then it'll be your permission they need and they aren't getting it.

Given how they have behaved, I'd tell them they back down or you will start pushing your mum to go to the police over their behaviour and/or you'll get your father's remains moved. Someone needs to stand up to them (and your sister) you're going to have to do it, it doesn't sound like your mum is strong enough and it's not fair to expect her to be.

piprabbit Thu 23-May-13 21:38:35

Is the desire for your uncle to be buried next to your father coming from a place of reconciliation and love, or is to coming from an attempt to reclaim your father and prevent him being reunited with your mother when the time comes?

It does sound horrific, and I have to admit to not really understanding your sister's role.

thegreylady Thu 23-May-13 22:09:31

Tell them the photographs are on your mum's records and that you will not hesitate to use them if they persist in their bullying.
Your sister is behaving very very badly imho.

MummytoKatie Thu 23-May-13 22:10:35

Have you pointed out to your sister that, as she is presumably expected to outlive your mother, it is her plot that your uncle is taking?

BriansBrain Thu 23-May-13 22:15:33

Terrible situation all round. What does your sister have to say about it and who owns the plot of land?

cloutiedumpling Thu 23-May-13 22:23:24

Is it a Council owned cemetery? IME they are very helpful indeed in explaining who purchased a lair and who now requires to give consent before someone can be buried there.

Altinkum Thu 23-May-13 22:36:48

I've just had a massive row with my mother.

According to my mum, I'm "casting up" that I've bought the head stone, and apparently she will give me the money back when she can.... Because my sister told her I mentioned that I brought the headstone.

I've had to put the phone down, do they honestly think this is about money? I couldn't care less, I really couldn't.

This family have treated us like scum, they have put my mum in hospital, made me lose my family home.

That plot was for my dad, mum and sister, as well as the headstone.

That's for MY family!

wonderingagain Thu 23-May-13 22:38:01

Who went to the undertakers and the cemetery and arranged the plot?

Altinkum Thu 23-May-13 22:40:20

My mum holds the deeds to the land, she "owns" the deeds for 100 years, and then the concil I believe can do what try want with the lad.

Apparently mum now wants cremated and sister apparently is not bothered.

Only two days ago it was a complete different set of wishes, they were completely against the idea.

Altinkum Thu 23-May-13 22:43:17

My mum and sister, I didn't get a say...

WandaDoff Thu 23-May-13 22:44:07

I own the plot that my Dad is in. Who own's your Dad's plot?

OHforDUCKScake Thu 23-May-13 22:44:11

I think your mum is understandably very scared and you need to be sympathetic towards her and not angry.

You've all suffered.

But your mum more than anyone from what you've said. I expect she, quite understandably, will do anything for a quiet life.

WandaDoff Thu 23-May-13 22:44:42

Sorry X post

wonderingagain Thu 23-May-13 22:49:46

Your Mum is the only one who can make decisions. A trip to a solicitor to sign something might be helpful, if your Mum is making decisions under duress it might protect her.

You could try a free hearing with a solicitor to see if there is anything you can do to protect her. Also, try talking to your sister, it may be that she is also under pressure.

Altinkum Thu 23-May-13 22:55:07

My sister couldn't care less, she lies at every opportunity, she is not under pressure at all.

My mum said that she didn't know what to do, but as soon as mum said yes, sister went straight to dads family and told them, with or without my concent this is happening.

I'm beyond devastated, I can't describe how I am feeling.

I loved my uncle, but this what I'm feeling is not grief, is hurt beyond measures that even I can't describe or know how to deal with.

I will lose my family over this, that desisions I know for sure.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AlbertoFrog Thu 23-May-13 22:59:58

Altinkum I am so sorry.

Do things have to be decided straight away? Are you able to send your mum an email, try to explain things rationally, without things getting heated over the phone?

Sounds horrific but perhaps your mum's new idea of cremation will be a blessing in disguise and you can think of a place (or places) with happy memories where her ashes can be scattered.

thanks to you.

MayTheOddsBeEverInYourFavour Thu 23-May-13 23:00:23

I can see you're really distressed by this, but I really think you need to find a way to let it go

These decisions are not yours to make and they are not worth losing your family over

If you don't own the plot and you weren't going to be buried there then this doesn't directly affect you, and I can understand why it's hard to see your mum put under pressure it is her decision to make

piprabbit Thu 23-May-13 23:02:16

Would cremating your uncle be an option at all? Then maybe his ashes could be interred in the family grave with room still for your mum and sister?

Altinkum Thu 23-May-13 23:09:58

As a tradiitional catholic family burial it has to be, no other choice will be acceptable by dads family.

Even tho they are not practising Catholics hmm and only go to church for christenings, weddings and funerals.

wonderingagain Thu 23-May-13 23:23:34

Tell your Mum that if you die you won't be put in with your uncle and you will get your own plot, that she is welcome to join you.

Does she have a Will?

StuntGirl Fri 24-May-13 00:37:17

I remember your original thread, YANBU. I'm so sorry its come to this. flowers

Altinkum Fri 24-May-13 07:37:58

Wondering I wasn't being buried with my family, their is no spaces left in the graveyard.

I've woke up today thinking I'm feelings would ease over and they haven't.

Its yet another desisions and that been took out if my hands with my mum and sister.

I've sent my mum this message and if it does go ahead I can't condone it, this isn't something I want.

**I can't believe you think so little off me, do you honestly think this is about money, are you really that thick!!! That plot and stone was for you, dad and Lee- Anne, hence why I bought it, its been of that understanding for all of these years and more predominately the last few months I couldn't give a flying shinny fook about the money, THIS IS NOT ABOUT MONEY!!! I won't stand by and allow this to happen. You and Lee-Anne have made your decision without a second thought of my wishes and how I am feeling, you have always wanted to be buried in beside my dad/your husband and only a few months ago you were determined you weren't being buried beside my uncle George.

I love my uncle george, and I get this is his last wish.

But I feel strongly about this, I lost my childhood home because of this family, watched and endured what they put you through, but to me this is the finial straw, I've forgave them but I will never forgive them.

Yet again I'm always the last one in this family to be told, or even allowed to have a say, but as I was told repeatedly throughout my childhood only one child was wanted, and that prevails even into adulthood.

I love you with all my heart, I've always been their as much as I possibly could, with the distance between us. And I will keep loving you forever. But I can't do this anymore**

RubyGates Fri 24-May-13 08:25:21

I don't get why your uncle wants to be burried beside his brother. Isn't there a more appropriate family member/plot . (Spouse/ parents if not married)

I don't really understand why your sister wants to burried there either.... surely when the time comes in the future there will be a spouse of her own she will want to share a plot with?

An adult being burried next to his brother is very odd unless both of them are unmarried and childless. (Or unless there's a family crypt/tomb where everyone goes).

This is clearly a control issue and they've got you just where they want you, I can see why you'd be hopping mad.

Traditionally family plots hold spouses and unmarried children (often in the past infant children who were burried before the parents). I've never seen a headstone/headstones that suggest two grown and married siblings sharing a plot.

I hope that you can find peace and resolution on this issue, and that you can understand that your mother needs to do the quickest and most expedient thing so she doesn't have to think about it for longer than necessary. This is her way of gaining the peace she needs.

wonderingagain Fri 24-May-13 08:49:30

I agree this is a control issue. I had something similar happen and as soon as i realised it was about control I let it drop and went ahead and organised my own things myself. My mother is still confused but my strength is making her see that you can refuse, walk away and hold your head high. I realised who my family really were as I got support from people who actually respected me. The others disappeared from my life which was sad but at least I still have my self-respect.

Altinkum Fri 24-May-13 09:02:53

My aunt is in a plot, her long term partner will go in with her, so hence another space left. So I don't understand why he can't go in this space.

My other aunt is buried inbeside her mother a father. So no spaces left.

My family plot has two spaces left, but uncle asked to be buried with his brother, he has family, 4 children, however is divorced.

Theirs is no more space at the graveyard.

My sister now has the deeds, so its all going ahead.

wonderingagain Fri 24-May-13 09:07:40

Was the brother responsible for your mum's treatment?

Altinkum Fri 24-May-13 09:09:53

Partly, he didn't get involved, walked past her in the street, basically condoned the behaviour.

diddl Fri 24-May-13 09:19:15

Well if the plot belongs to your Mum, then you have to let her decide what happens.

Why your sister would want to be buried with her Dad & Uncle, or thinks your Mum should be buried with her husband & BIL is totally beyond me, though!

diddl Fri 24-May-13 09:20:32

Why would your Aunt & Uncle "go in" together if they were separated?

Cockadoodlequack Fri 24-May-13 09:32:51

I can feel your anger. I'm not an angry person at all, but I too would be beyond livid with this.

This level of anger is only going to affect you and your life, so since it looks like you are not going to get any of these people to see reason, please treat yourself as kindly as you can and follow the course of action which will involve the least additional hurt to YOU. flowers Try to detatch yourself from the hurt of this new situation for a few minutes at a time to think about whether losing your mum will be more painful than keeping a relationship going despite this.

I'm really sorry this is happening to you. x

Hullygully Fri 24-May-13 09:37:58

what a horrible horrible nightmare xx

wonderingagain Fri 24-May-13 10:09:15

I'm wondering why your uncle wanted this. Do you think he did it because he wanted to move away from his parents? If that's the case they will see that in the long term. He must have been very torn, perhaps this is his way of of telling his family he doesn't want anything yo do with them any more. Perhaps they can't see that yet.

Tomorrowslookingfine Fri 24-May-13 10:27:49

OP where will you be buried?

Altinkum Fri 24-May-13 10:29:51

In England.

My family will be buried in Scotland.

Pigsmummy Fri 24-May-13 11:37:05

You have said more than once that you love your Uncle, so is the anger directed at his family rather than him?

If the decision/agreement has been made that he will be buried there then I don't see how you can change this tbh? Your Mum isn't going to stand up and withdraw the agreement now is she? So falling out with her about it isn't helpful, hand on heart you know that she will let this happen. I hope that you can move on without falling out with your Mum, she sounds like she needs more support not less. Also please don't take away the headstone, you did that your father.

I hope that you can find some peace.

Bringmewineandcake Fri 24-May-13 11:44:15

I too remember your original thread. So sorry it has come to this.
It sounds like your uncle has now got his wish ie. taking your mum's spot because there were no other spaces left in the family graveyard.
Rant on here, not much point ranting any more at your mum - she's already suffered at the hands of her husband's family and has been bullied into this by your sister. She needs you.
brew

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