To not want anything to do with ex-friend and his child?(62 Posts)
Situation has been rumbling on for several months now.
Close friends of ours have recently split up. The husband had been having an affair for 3 of the 5 years of his marriage. The OW became pregnant and he left his wife.
Since the split, I've not wanted to have anything to do with him. Basically, he isn't the person I thought he was. He has been lying to us all for a long time and has been vv cruel to his stbxwife - he has done a u-turn on wanting children and is now bleating on to anyone who will listen that stbxwife was trying to "deny him" fatherhood. The OW is much younger than him and he was in a position of trust when they met. It leaves a bad taste.
The baby has recently been born. I am still avoiding him, as is DH, although he has contacted us a few times trying to bury the hatchet.
It has been sad and regrettable, but DH and I felt we were doing the right thing.
However, other mutual friends think differently, and I have had one such talking to me today, and she told me I was being very unreasonable not to see the baby, as it is hardly her fault. This feels like guilt-tripping and I don't like it. Apparently, several people are going to the christening, and this friend thinks DH and I should go (we were invited).
My instinct is no, and to drop this man from our social circle. Am I actually BU?
YANBU I admire people who don't tolerate shitty behaviour from others.
YANBU. You are perfectly entitled to end a friendship for any reason you like, and fwiw I don't think I'd want to continue a friendship with this guy either.
It's entirely up to you. In general, I would stick by a friend even if they had done something wrong like have an affair. But being lied to for three years is hard, and also his relationship with OW sounds a bit disturbing and like he might have been manipulating her. I think that would be enough to put me off someone.
It's not like you would have been a big part of the baby's life anyway (e.g. if you were baby's aunt or grandmother I might say try harder) so it doesn't really matter if you don't go to christening etc.
No, it's not the child's fault that you have decided to drop the father. But how will the child lose out if you do? That's a bizarre thing to say!
I think you are right to have the courage of your convictions. You don't need to make a fuss, but just do what you believe is right.
If he is no longer a friend and you don't like him then don't go. The baby is irrelevent, it's just a child of people you don't socialise with.
Nope YANBU. I really value truth. I would be very hurt and upset that someone had lied to me for 3 years, I don't think I would want to be friends with that person at all. The comment about the baby is a bit silly, perhaps he's playing the 'new life new start' card.
The whole point of friends is you get to pick them - you're not stuck with them as you would be if this was your brother or something.
YANBU. As for 'it's not the baby's fault' - what has that got to do with the price of fish? By that logic, you'd have to be friends with/put up with shitty behaviour from EVERY parent in the whole wide world! He's no longer a friend, and the mutual friends' opinions are irrelevant. If they want to be friends with a wanker that's their choice; however they don't get to choose you friends.
It's up to you. How can anyone have an opinion on that?
Thanks for the perspective, everyone.
The friend who said the thing about it not being the baby's fault likes to prove how liberal and oh-so-laidback she is about everything, actually. I have a feeling she is on her way out as well.
DH has taken this worse than me, and does not want original ex-friend anywhere near our teenage DD.
I think you should come and meet my children, actually, OP, and give them some nice presents. After all, it's not their fault that you and I have never met...
21 Katherine, and he used to be her tutor at university. He is 33.
Your not a family member so doubt very much the child will feel bereft at never having met you. It's not like you wish ill on his child. Your friend is being ridiculous.
Nothing like spring cleaning your friendship circle once in a while either!
Sounds dodge. At 21 you think you're a grown up, but you're not (at least, I wasn't). Did it start when she was 18 then?
I believe so Katherine. At the same time as he was playing house with his wife, who he had been married to for 2 years and with for about 8. She is lovely and I have known them since they got together.
Oh ick. You are well rid in that case. Yuck yuck yuck.
That is way off. Obviously an affair would be wrong anyway, but with someone that young - just creepy. She has probably been much manipulated...
It has left me doubting my judgement TBH.
You have no relationship with the child. You are not being unfair to it.
YANBU in any way, shape or form. He sounds 100% tosser. Keep your distance. And if anyone in RL sees fit to tell you how you should include him, really its not their business the choice you make.
He sounds vile! YANBU! And your 'liberal' friend sounds a bit of a twat too.
YANBU. Don't go. Life is too short to put up with shit from so-called friends.
I'm sure the wife would be glad of a good supportive friend at the moment.
He sounds like a horrible man. I wouldn't have anything to do with him. You aren't upsetting or depriving the child of anything, what a bizarre thing for your friend to suggest. I would drop the man in question quietly without too much fuss and there is no point in going to a christening for a baby who you don't know and aren't going to know. This man didn't take his last promise to God very seriously, I wonder if it is lost on him that he's going to make another promise at the Christening.
You'll be well rid.
Yanbu, you don't have to be friends with this man if you don't want to be. That is fair enough. I'm sure his very badly treated ex wife would be grateful of having such supportive friends.
I don't think a 12 year age gap given the OW is a consenting adult, not a 16 year old, is an issue. Whether he was her lecturer at university or not. It's the fact that regardless of who she is,how old she is or how they met, he cheated on his wife and has treated her bloody terribly that is the issue. And one you don't have to be "cool" with either.
I think it's up to you, no should' about it.
FWIW, I stayed friends with someone who split up with his wife (he could have behaved much better, but he could have behaved much worse, IYSWIM), but a very good friend of mine felt that she couldn't talk to him any more. I appreciated her viewpoint, and I suppose I appreciated that his ex-wife had someone like my friend in her corner at her difficult time.
YANBU. It is an abuse of the power dynamic - for a tutor to sexually target an 18 year old girl
OK, 12 years isn't much. But I really can't imagine it being OK for a tutor to get involved with a fresher to such an extent. Agree, the power dynamic is all off. A few of my friends at uni were absolutely infatuated with their tutors, but the tutors that realised it ran a mile, naturally. If you think about it, a few months before she would still have been at school...
I just meant that the age gap and how they met isn't the biggest issue here.
Lecturer - student relationships happen. Not entirely right but not fundamentally wrong either. People of that age could easily meet in a bar. It's an imposed position of responsibility that is different to the teacher-pupil one.
Op and her DH don't like or condone how he behaved, I imagine that would be the same if the OW was 30 and he'd met her in a bar. If he has behaved in a way that they simply cannot forgive/accept then there is absolutely no reason for them to make any kind of effort with him. No judgement from me on that front.
YANBU. I'd even go so far as to tell him that I didn't particularly want him around my teenage daughter , under the circumstances. At 18 the OW was an adult, but the man was supposed to be a professional and in a position of trust and responsibility- it's all pretty seedy. And he's already proven that he has absolutely no scruples about hurting other people, especially his ex-wife.
I'd spend the time with his ex-wife to be honest- she's been very shabbily treated and would probably appreciate a present far more than the baby would.
What I meant was hat this man is in absolutely no position to bleat on about feeling hurt if friends drop him, given how hurtful and damaging his own behaviour has been.
Inertia agree. He is no position to cry about the consequences of his own behaviour at all. Made his bed,lie in it etc.
It's not the biggest issue, but I just feel it compounds it... Not surprised OP's h doesn't want him around their daughter
There's a distinction between lecturer-student and tutor-student, I think. The responsibilities of a tutor are quite different from those of a lecturer in some significant ways.
Someone who lies to you for 3 years is not a friend.
I have a list of behaviours of people I do not wish to be friends as i only wish to be friends with people who i actually like value and feel friendly towards they are very simple
Perpetrators of child abuse
Perpetrators of domestic abuse
Anybody who preys on vulnerable people.
If a friend does any if the above they cease to be a friend. You get to decide what your personal rules are.
But do stick with the exwife. MY DF was an abusive twat when my parents split and it was surprising and very sad that so many joint friends dropped my mum when they split.
TolliverGroat, please elaborate on the differences between a lecturer-student relationship and a tutor-student relationship.
IMO, it's deeply unprofessional to start shagging the student in either circumstance. Never mind the rest.
I can't understand why friends of mine are still pally and civil to the h of another friend of mine who had an affair and punched her in the head!
YANBU. DH had an affair years ago and we split up. We've since reconciled and worked through it, but I know he was shocked at the time at the reaction he got from his friends.
I think having good friends tell him he'd been behaving like a knob definitely opened his eyes.
You really do not want someone like that in your life. He did not care that he lied to his family and friends and he should accept the consequences of this. If he keeps contacting you perhaps just be honest with him? You are not being hurtful just truthful?
Sounds like this man abuses every trust. I wouldn't go near him.
I wouldn't want this man near my teenage daughter either. It sounds like he has a somewhat 'flexible' moral compass.
He's lied to you for 3 years - you're right, he's not the man he thought you were.
It depends on the university, but certainly at some places a tutor has a measure of pastoral responsibility for the student, is supposed to meet with the student regularly, and is intended to be the student's first point of call in getting advice on personal matters. I know some places with a tutor system have that role filled by a lecturer from a different faculty, but some others combine academic and pastoral responsibility. A lecturer might teach the student for one term only and could easily never be in a group of less than a hundred with her her in a professional context.
I don't recall saying that either was right or professional . But a tutor shagging a student for whom he or she has pastoral responsibility I would normally have expected to be summarily dismissed for gross misconduct while a lecturer shagging a student for whom he had no pastoral responsibility and with whom he had no ongoing academic relationship might get away with getting his knuckles rapped, having a close eye kept on him and being told not to do it again.
And he'll do the same thing again. Because he can. I hope OW realises this.
Its an interesting question, but I agree with the poster above who says she admires people who don't tolerate shitty behaviour from others.
I think if society in general does tolerate shitty behaviour, the boundaries of whats acceptable and what is not come down.
I'm in a similar situation myself, except no DC has been born - instead the man in question has moved in with a very much younger woman (a teenager when he met her), and has started to "mould" her into what he wants her to be - paying for a personal trainer, paying for her to go to evening classes although she has literacy problems and can't cope, telling her what she can wear, etc.. Another friend got her a job in his company which she is unqualified and inexperienced to do, and she cannot do the job (I have to deal with her occasionally and feel sorry for her). Its so creepy, no, they have done nothing illegal or wrong (except discriminating against the other candidates for the job), but I'm now left thinking they are not the men I thought they were, and what on earth do I say to this woman socially.
I've also had the DP in question trying to use me to make things look better, and to be friends with his girlfriend, and I'm contemplating dropping them, I'm just not comfortable with it at all. I think treating an ex-wife badly and having an affair with a student is really reprehensible behaviour, and YANBU to show your disapproval by withdrawing your friendship.
Agree with Tolliver. The "icky ness" of this is much greater if he's supposed to be providing 1:1 pastoral support than if she is one of 200 students snoozing quietly at the back of a lecture theatre.
The only thing that would be worse than if he was her tutor is if there was continual assessment and he's been marking her work.
FWIW we have stayed friendly ith both halves if a couple that split up due to infidelity. Although It was a one off incident rather than a three year affair. But I see nothing wrong with what you have decided.
go with your instincts and drop him, offer the ex your friendship instead.
what an arsepiece.
Tolliver, I didn't say you thought it was right or professional.
I said I thought it wrong and unprofessional. I'm sure you do too.
YANBU at all. My BF's husband cheated within the first year of marriage (they had been together for 6 years before marrying) and actually pretended to be going on holiday with mutual friends before literally ditching them at the airport to go off with the other person. This went on for months. We were also close friends and I knew about many nights out he was on with these other 'friends' and it was only months later we discovered he was cheating on all of those occasions. After they broke up I did try to keep in touch for a while as I didn't want to lose the friendship, but the fact of the matter was he broke my BF's heart and he lied to me consistently, made me feel like a fool. I could have gotten over that possibly but not the way he treated my friend. I eventually sent him a message explaining that too much had happened for our friendship to continue but that I wished him well (even though I didn't really ) and felt so much happier to have drawn a line under it. Although my BF would never have asked me to cut him out I also know they are much more comfortable having no ties whatsoever to him now.
There are Universities where having a relationship with a student is a sackable offence (regardless of the ages). There are cases of where a past relationship with a student (even when it wasn't frowned on) has blighted a future career move.
Even if he hadn't been married he should have had the moral decency my FIL did. As a post-grad student he supervised some classes, and was attracted to one of the students. He didn't ask her out until she was no longer part of his class (and eventually married her, she was DHs mother).
OP you can choose who you want to be friends with, and I wouldn't want to give into blackmail of any kind.
But I'm confused by your friend who seems to think you should still be friends with this man. is there some particular history here? Were you originally friends with him or the exDW?
DH had a friend who had an affair. Naturally, we were horrified and it definitely affected our friendship with the friend. But DH and this man had been friends since they were 12, and the friendship was so long term and entrenched that DH did not feel he wanted to end it so in a situation like that I can see why your other friend might feel that way.
Having said that, while I understood why DH didn't want to end his friendship with this man, I also would have completely understood if he did.
YANBU. The argument about it not being the baby's fault is a total red herring. The baby will hardly notice the absence of two former friends of its dad who it never met...
YANBU - I'd tell your mutual friend that you don't consider him to be a friend anymore so his children are no more of interest to you than the children of someone who lives 4 streets away you've never talked too.
In my experience, men who can treat their wives as bad as this (cheating on her for years), generally have a view that what they want is more important than behaving well to other people - so when push comes to shove, they won't flinch at screwing you over too. When it comes to friends, if you are getting enough from the relationship to make it ok to be friends with someone you know can't be trusted, then keep them in your life, but I'm guessing this man doesn't bring enough to the table to make being friends with him worthwhile.
You don't need to be friends with anyone, just cut him out. Be polite at events when mutual friends invite you, but I would consider him to be friend of friend, not someone in your life.
I wouldn't react to him having an affair. Nobody knows what goes on in a relationship etc and it's none of my business, but I couldn't get past the lying. A short period of lying - perhaps, but to be lied to for three years and to witness him lying to stbxW for 3 years - no no no.
YANBU. Your right it does leave bad taste and of just move on and forge about him
Thanks for the replies and support.
DH and I will not be going to the christening, and will keep continuing to decline any advances our former friend makes. We remain friends with his former wife - they were both originally friends of mine through work and I have known them since the time they met. The "liberal" friend also dates from this period.
Former friend has apparently narrowly avoided losing his job completely, although I don't know the complete story. I have heard that he is not allowed to teach first years any more and has had his teaching caseload dramatically reduced.
Good plan, OP.
What a scumbag he sounds. And the 'liberal' friend is an idiot.
Sometimes it can take ages to find out what our friends/acquaintances are really like!
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