if you smoke, would you smoke outside the hospital, in your nightwear?

(235 Posts)
waikikamookau Wed 22-May-13 16:17:53

cos I am shocked whenever I walk by, virtually every day, with all and sundry sitting in their pyjamas.
have they no shame.
what I would do? get some proper clothes on for god's sake,

soontobeburns Wed 22-May-13 16:21:00

I would. Some pyjamas cover move than the leggings you see some girls wear.

I need a smoke at least every few hours, im not gonna get dressed each time.

I often stand outside hotels (even in my hometown) in my pyjamas for a smoke.

Maybe have no shame but YABU

NoobyNoob Wed 22-May-13 16:21:05

No no and no! I've recently packed up, but even when I did smoke I went to see my friend in hospital I'd wait till I got home!

I don't think it's the nightwear thing that bothers me, but more like they do it right at the entrance and not in the designated area.

LangenFlugelHappleHoff Wed 22-May-13 16:21:49

Tbh if they have been admitted into hospital I bet they don't hive a rats hairy arse what they are wearing.

But for the smoking outside a hospital entrance yanbu I really don't like seeing it either.

Dillydollydaydream Wed 22-May-13 16:22:01

I'm not a smoker but if I were and I was outside smoking then I would obviously be feeling well enough to get dressed. Perhaps a happy medium would be lounge wear/yoga pants and a tshirt. Still comfy but decent enough to wear outside.

Know what you mean though, I have to walk past lots of smokers standing at the main entrance to hospital in their dressing gowns/slippers usually accompanied by drip stands.

notfluffy Wed 22-May-13 16:22:24

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LangenFlugelHappleHoff Wed 22-May-13 16:22:35

Give not hive blush

ZZZenagain Wed 22-May-13 16:23:58

I don't smoke. I really smoking but if I were addicted and in hospital, I think I probably would drag myself outside and smoke. From what I see of heavy smokers, they are constantly lighting up so it would be really difficult not to.

DrSeuss Wed 22-May-13 16:24:36

Don't smoke, never have but have seen groups at the doors of the hospital, the most interesting being the one with an oxygen cylinder! The most shocking to me are the ones clearly in for inductions or similar. The night dresses don't bother me, they probably have nothing else, it's the thought of the time, energy and money being spent and the fact that they are effectively spitting on all that. A woman on my dad's ward was told that if she stopped smoking, they could try to save her leg. If she would not stop, they could do nothing. She chose to continue smoking.

Oswin Wed 22-May-13 16:24:45

I did. I was in pain, I couldn't get dressed. My ex would wheel me down to the shop for my sandwiches and newspapers then I'd go round to the benches at the side of the hospital to smoke. I couldn't have cared less at the time what I looked like.

infamouspoo Wed 22-May-13 16:26:26

yup. The stress outweighed any thoughts or care of what I looked like..

Thurlow Wed 22-May-13 16:26:47

I got slightly dressed - yoga pants at least. And didn't stand right by the door. But it was still no more than a shuffle outside!

They might not have any real clothes with them.

Meerkatwhiskers Wed 22-May-13 16:29:26

I was in A&E yesterday and a patient from resus did a runner to go for a cigarette (I have worked there as a student nurse so recognised where he should be and know the staff but was there as a patient). Caused a major panic obviously as being in resus he was clearly classed as being pretty sick and would usually not have been allowed to walk to the toilet just outside the door.

HoHoHoNoYouDont Wed 22-May-13 16:30:17

yup The stress outweighed any thoughts or care of what I looked like

I don't smoke but I can imagine this is how I'd feel if i did. I'm a complete wimp so if I was in hospital I probably wouldn't give a damn.

Meerkatwhiskers Wed 22-May-13 16:33:52

BTW I don't smoke so wouldn't do it personally.

Also just remembered the time we had to call the police when a member of the ward staff and security saw one of our patients walking off the hospital site. Turns out he had been to buy some cigarettes from the garage about 10 mins down the road but still he caused a big hassle in doing so. He really didn't understand what he'd done.

Just remember if you want to smoke in hospital to tell staff where you are going wink

crashdoll Wed 22-May-13 16:34:43

I'm sure this will get me flamed to the high heavens but I really dislike seeing smokers right near the entrance to the hospital.

MyDarlingClementine Wed 22-May-13 16:36:03

I was told after my section to get up walking " women are up and about after a few hours these days". I told this to another MW later on and she whispered, " The smokers are, yes".

I also understand the addiction and the stress, and being in PJ's in hospital is normal!

VerySmallSqueak Wed 22-May-13 16:38:40

Last time I was in hospital as a smoker I was confined to bed.
It was horrible.
If I could have got up and gone out for a fag,I would have probably gone out stark naked if necessary.
I think it's a raw deal for smokers having to stand there in the pj's wheeling their drip stands.
I think they should be allowed to have a bit more dignity rather than feeling like they're paraded like lepers for all to judge,because they can't get any further away from scrutiny.

LadyBeagleEyes Wed 22-May-13 16:39:56

Yes I would and I have done.

usualsuspect Wed 22-May-13 16:42:15

Yes I would.

Sirzy Wed 22-May-13 16:43:29

I'm sure this will get me flamed to the high heavens but I really dislike seeing smokers right near the entrance to the hospital.

I agree.

I don't care if people want to smoke, or what they want to wear to do it but I would rather they did it somewhere that people entering the hospital didn't have to walk through it.

KittensoftPuppydog Wed 22-May-13 16:43:37

I would smoke outside the hospital in your nightwear.

LastTangoInDevonshire Wed 22-May-13 16:47:46

I have. No shame at all, but wheeling the drip on the stand into the lift and then out through the entrance could be a bit cumbersome I must admit!

CloudsAndTrees Wed 22-May-13 16:53:08

If I was staying in hospital I'd probably be wearing lounge wear rather than a nightie, so I don't see the problem. I expect people who are in hospital have more pressing concerns than what they are wearing.

I don't smoke any more and I have only had to stay in hospital since I stopped. But I would do it if O still smoked. What's your beef? It doesn't affect you one bit.

mrsjay Wed 22-May-13 17:10:11

'm sure this will get me flamed to the high heavens but I really dislike seeing smokers right near the entrance to the hospital.

Its not great but if people are smokers they need to have a cigarette and there is nowhere to go I think id rather seem them smoke at a door entrance in Pjs that go into a toilet or cupboard in the hospital, I have gone out in PJs to have a smoke I didn't care, but i can remember when you went to the smoking room in hospital to have a fag shock

LtEveDallas Wed 22-May-13 17:13:06

Yep, I would (but then I'm old enough to remember when it was OK to smoke on the ward, so...)

mrsjay Wed 22-May-13 17:14:55

(but then I'm old enough to remember when it was OK to smoke on the ward, so...)

oh im not THAT old wink I can remember being wheeled into a corridor and a nurse opening a window for me to have a smoke drips bags the lot, smoking makes you do strange things

I wouldn't bit then I don't smoke. When I was in hospital after having ds I saw a woman and her partner heading out for a cigarette. The woman had a nightdress on and a catheter bag in her hand and with the tube hanging out the bottom of her nighty. Seriously!

LadyBeagleEyes Wed 22-May-13 17:16:21

There used to be a smoking room about 8 years ago in our local hospital.
It was a little room by the fire exit.

I would. And did.

mrsjay Wed 22-May-13 17:19:44

<shrug> Oil when you need a smoke you go for a smoke , and if you are ill and in pain in hospital smoking although bad for you offers a distraction

AmberSocks Wed 22-May-13 17:21:45

I remember smoking rooms in hospitals too!seems like a lifetime ago.

I used to smoke and i dont think i would of,i think it would of depended on the pjs!

I would and have done, p'js are clothes, people see you all day in them in a hospital, if they made a decent smoking area away from the hospital people would not stand by door..

Sirzy Wed 22-May-13 17:23:39

I remember my grandad being in hopsital after a heart attack lifting his oxygen mask off for long enough to have a drag of his cig.

oh and I remember when they had a smoking room on the maternity ward..lol

Sirzy Wed 22-May-13 17:24:54

if they made a decent smoking area away from the hospital people would not stand by door.

Our hospital had smoking shelters, people still stood by the door.

I can understand its a tough time for them and whatever but it particularly annoys me when they are stood outside the entrance to A and E and I have to walk DS in the middle of an asthma attack through it.

Hamwidge Wed 22-May-13 17:27:06

It's the alcoholics necking tenants super or straight vodka before going in that bother me.

As a smoker who has spent many months in hospital with dd I've seen it all, from people dragging drips outside to women in labour smoking between contractions!!

After few months of hospital monotony you can't be arsed judging people anymore.

Oldraver Wed 22-May-13 17:28:49

I remember being in hospital with DS when he was a baby, we went into the a little garden with benches to have lunch and some fresh air. Then a woman in pj's and dragging a drip stand sat on the same bench and started puffing away.

I still cant figure why she passed several empty benches and sat next to a baby to smoke...it must of been her favourite

My nan is in hospital, there are signs all around the entrance saying not to smoke near the doors. There are adequate shelters and seating areas (is actually quite lovely) yet majority of smokers stand next to the door.

This is the main exit for the maternity ward. Imagine having to bring your newborn out through all that (and it is v.v.noticeable)

Smoke as much as you want, but why for the love of god stand right next to the door where all the smoke blows back in anyway. It is ignorant, pure and simple.

ChestyNut Wed 22-May-13 17:47:51

If I was we'll enough to stand outside there would be no reason to be in my pjs all day.

Bizarre that people seem to stick pjs on soon as they are admitted grin

TallGiraffe Wed 22-May-13 18:05:52

I have never understood the wearing of PJs in hospital thing. Fair enough if you're in bed, but if you're well enough to be out of bed then get dressed! It makes you feel better and you get treated as a human being not a patient.

<I say this as someone who has spent over a year as an inpatient>

waikikamookau Wed 22-May-13 18:13:42

perhaps it goes with the wearing pyjamas down asda mentality. I think I would ask for a nicotine patch

Sallyingforth Wed 22-May-13 18:15:10

A few weeks ago an emergency ambulance was called to an elderly person in my road. The two staff spent some time treating her but left her at home. Before driving off, one of them sat in the ambulance while the other one stood next to it in his uniform, smoking!

waikikamookau Wed 22-May-13 18:16:46

and was the driver of the ambulance wearing pyjamas? grin

waikikamookau Wed 22-May-13 18:19:59

shock that people would be smoking between contractions!

not anti smoking though << cough>> <<wheeze>>

it is just the attire that bugs me.

VerySmallSqueak Wed 22-May-13 18:22:57

I don't understand what is wrong with that Sally confused

specialsubject Wed 22-May-13 18:27:25

smokers always look so desperate, what they are wearing makes no difference. Don't care as long as they stand well away from buildings and take the dog ends to the bin afterwards.

sadly most do neither.

PeachActiviaMinge Wed 22-May-13 18:29:01

When I was in hospital having DS there was a sign outside the maternity wing asking people to consider the pregnant women and babies and not smoke by the doors the only people I ever saw smoke by the doors were women who had been induced I knew they had been induced as they were in the induction room of the labour ward I was on. That's proof of how badly the nicotine monkey bites.

Sallyingforth Wed 22-May-13 18:30:40

I don't understand what is wrong with that Sally
If you don't understand what's wrong with an ambulance technician smoking in the street by his ambulance, I won't try to explain.

Chunderella Wed 22-May-13 18:35:22

Seems a bit odd to object to the pyjamas, of all things. I could more easily understand it if you were slagging them for undermining their health.

When I was in hospital having just had an ectopic pregnancy removed along with my right fallopian tube, I went outside for a smoke with my coat over my pyjamas.
I had probably never needed a cigarette more in my entire life.

You do not know what that jammied up person is going through/been through.

VerySmallSqueak Wed 22-May-13 18:37:36

OK then Sally.

But I thought an ambulance technician was just an ordinary person doing a days work,and if they are a smoker,they need to have a fag at some point.
He was outside and not chugging away in the back of the ambulance while treating the patient.

Or would you rather he covered himself in sackcloth and slunk up an alley?

I missed the 'have you no shame' part of your OP.

No I had no shame...sadness, pain, guilt yes, but no shame.

Sirzy Wed 22-May-13 18:43:27

Nurses aren't supposed to smoke on duty without covering up there uniform so I would imagine the same is expected of paramedics.

Alisvolatpropiis Wed 22-May-13 18:44:37

No I wouldn't. I wouldn't stand outside a hotel like it either.

Alisvolatpropiis Wed 22-May-13 18:45:31

*but I don't care if other people do. I just don't own pjamama's.

EleanorFarjeon Wed 22-May-13 18:46:34

But that ambulance technician's presumably going to be in very close contact with people, breathing his rancid fag breath on them.

VerySmallSqueak Wed 22-May-13 18:47:05

But it doesn't really 'fool' anyone does it Sirzy?

Can we not accept that even some people who 'should know better' still have the right to make bad choices about their own lives?

PipkinsPal Wed 22-May-13 18:52:49

Smokers heal slowly after surgery and can get complications. The smell is disgusting, it clings to clothes and makes breath smell. I feel sick when I see pregnant women, even more so outside maternity buildings having a fag in their dressing gowns. Their unborn children don't have a chance at good health. The ones who say they smoke outside don't realise that all the nasty chemicals cling to their clothing and their children still breathe it in when they go back indoors. Smokers litter everywhere with their fag butts but they don't seem to class that as litter confused. Also I do not want to walk through clouds of smoke to go into a shop because smokers can't read do not smoke in doorway signs. Rant over.

TheChaoGoesMu Wed 22-May-13 18:56:56

I used to drag myself down to the smoking room in pj's and a catheter. If I was in hosp these days I would wear the pj's and go outside. If there was a smoking area not too far away I would go to it, otherwise it would be wherever the other smokers are, possibly near the door. No I have no shame and I don't give a teeny tiny rats arse what other people might think.

flanbase Wed 22-May-13 18:59:07

it's totally disgusting and why is treatment being given to those who are ruiningtheir health by smoking. If you want health care then no smoking and I'd say a test to prove this

flanbase Wed 22-May-13 18:59:59

Smoking also ruins the health of others and this is unacceptable and selfish

Gossipmonster Wed 22-May-13 19:00:14

Yes because it makes me laugh. Every. Single. Morning. grin

Gossipmonster Wed 22-May-13 19:01:18

Omg? No treatment if you smoke flanbase where do you draw the line? Drunk people? Fat people? Suicide attempts? hmm

Chunderella Wed 22-May-13 19:01:55

To say the unborn children of smokers don't have a chance at good health is a bit of an exaggeration. Smoking during pregnancy increases the risk of various problems, it doesn't guarantee them. I also find it really annoying whenever I have to waft through smoke or put up with the smell, but let's not overdo it.

flanbase Wed 22-May-13 19:02:52

Smoking is a known health risk with many complications and does no good in any way so why is healthcare given (other than emergency) to smokers?

OddBoots Wed 22-May-13 19:03:08

It's no different to being addicted to any other drug, worry about clothing goes out the window if you're desperate for a fix.

Does anyone know if the NHS offer free patches to inpatients?

StoicButStressed Wed 22-May-13 19:04:49

OP - I will acknowledge first off that I am slightly emotionally invested in this. That said though, yes - I do think YABVFU.

Smoking is an addiction that owns you to your very soul. My Mumma died of lung cancer in February, and yep, she carried on smoking even after terminal diagnoses and whilst in hospital. She didn't give a flying fuck if she was in her nightgown, all she wanted was for me to flirt outrageously to acquire these get a wheelchair from the Porter's office and take her outside. So she could smoke. And chat. And feel like HER 'normal' self. Did I hate it? YES. Could I 'judge' it? NO. Not least as I too am a bastard smoker and hooked on the evil things.

Most hospitals have MANY entrances and exits - am pretty sure most people could find a way in without the wretched smokers (who cannot move that far) being in their way. Have done that myself with my DS's lots of times. So yep, I DO think YABU...

But NOT as beyond nuts and unreasonable as THIS one:

Hamwidge Wed 22-May-13 17:27:06
It's the alcoholics necking tenants super or straight vodka before going in that bother me.

As a smoker who has spent many months in hospital with dd I've seen it all, from people dragging drips outside to women in labour smoking between contractions!!

After few months of hospital monotony you can't be arsed judging people anymore.

Ham - HThe FUCK can you write "....that bother ME. *And THEN writ*e "after X/Y/Z... you can't be arsed judging people anymore ..."

Can you GENUINELY not see the oxymoronic size of Grand Canyon 'gap' between first sentance and third? hmmconfusedangry

Here - please take your well-earned JudgeyPants of the day award

expatinscotland Wed 22-May-13 19:05:08

My dad did this. Because he sneaked away to have a fag.

flanbase Wed 22-May-13 19:06:53

Stoic you write "Most hospitals have MANY entrances and exits - am pretty sure most people could find a way in without the wretched smokers (who cannot move that far) being in their way." How totally selfish of you to have not a thought for others. Shocking

HullMum Wed 22-May-13 19:07:13

it was always especially nice walking in to maternity area of the hospital through the cloud of smoking pregnant women. Yes, I judged them, and yes it pissed me off when I had to inhale it

Sirzy Wed 22-May-13 19:12:31

Most hospitals have MANY entrances and exits - am pretty sure most people could find a way in without the wretched smokers (who cannot move that far) being in their way.

Right, so next time I am rushing DS into A and E because he is having an asthma attack I will go a much longer way around and hope that there are no smokers at that entrance either just so the smoker can get a nicotine fix.

Meerkatwhiskers Wed 22-May-13 19:18:24

Our hospital is actually a smoke free site but it isn't policed. No one either staff, patient or visitor should be smoking on the site at all. There are only 3 entrances, the main entrance which is where all the diagnosic areas and clinics are, the A&E entrance - which has a few smokers but is on a path so isn't really practical for hanging around outside, and the other entrance which is where all the wards and maternity are nearer too. It's this entrance that has the majority of the smokers around. Including pregnant women.

The staff, if they want to smoke, have set up a seating area in the woods next to the car park so they aren't seen smoking onsite.

StoicButStressed Wed 22-May-13 19:27:37


'How totally selfish of you to have not a thought for others. Shocking'

Yes. You are of course right. What a wholly selfish and uncaring selfish biatch I am for doing my utmost to meet whatever small 'comforts' my Mumma had left to her as she was dying.

That said, maybe someone could say the same of you for writing that about someone who simply did what they could - no matter HOW fucking awful it felt - to meet their dying parent's only wishes when still compus before dying 3 months ago and leaving this daughter, and other daughter and grandchildren in total and utter grief.

If I'm 'selfish' for meeting her wishes, I pray YOUR children grant you whatever small mercies/'comforts' they can when YOU are dying. Ditto, that they don't then casually fire off a message when they have only just lost you telling you how 'selfish' they are.

Compounded with a Hyacinth worthy one word sentance of: 'Shocking'.

Am leaving thread before one of us writes something that gets deleted but of course that would NEVER be you, since you are just SO angelic in EVERY way of course

<prays you never find yourself in situation I did. Ditto that you show a tad more compassion for the bereaved - whoever they may be and WHYever they might be - simply as another human being>

ethelb Wed 22-May-13 19:29:08

I'm surprised more isnt done to help them. There were pilots a few years ago where community pharmacists would go into wards to offer smoking cessation services, including patches etc, and followed up in the community when they were out. It was pretty successful.

Samu2 Wed 22-May-13 19:33:00

I no longer smoke but when I did I would happily smoke outside in nightwear.

CoteDAzur Wed 22-May-13 19:37:56

I used to smoke but there is no way I would wait outside a busy public building in my pyjamas, smoking or not.

I'm with OP on this. If you are well enough to walk and smoke, you are well enough to put on yoga pants at the very least.

ChestyNut Wed 22-May-13 19:47:45

flanbase let's not turn this into another of those I'm holier than thou and shall judge who is worthy of healthcare threads hmm

combinearvester Wed 22-May-13 19:56:57

I once had a cigar outside maternity/antenatal whilst sporting a visible bump, hooked up to a drip and in my pyjamas.

I had just been told my (very) early labour could not be stopped and the baby had no chance of survival. A cigar was all my SIL could find for sale in pub nearest hospital.

Despite the sad circumstances I had a little smirk to myself at all the judgey bastards who were falling over themselves to tut and tell their friends. If only one of them had felt the need to say something to me directly I could have made myself feel even better by sticking my drip stand right up their hoiked up pants.

TheChaoGoesMu Wed 22-May-13 19:58:48

'How totally selfish of you to have not a thought for others. Shocking'

Really? Oh dear. Maybe I should rethink this then.

Ok, rethought it. I still dont give a shit.

pictish Wed 22-May-13 20:03:31

Have done yep.
I don't really give a toss who's tut tutting me. Mind your own business.

crashdoll Wed 22-May-13 20:05:02

As I was the one to start it, the reason why I don't like seeing smokers in their pjs outside a hospital are for 2 reasons:

1.) I just think it's sad for them, they look vulnerable and unwell. I would never tut or judge them smoking. Who knows what they are going through?

2.) I feel that other ill people have the right not to walk through the smokey entrance when this particular hospital has benches and undercover areas not too far away to smoke in peace. I do judge those who won't move to the smoking areas in my local hospital, it's really not that far away!

Shakey1500 Wed 22-May-13 20:12:25

I have yes.

If the smoking ban had not been forced upon us and there had been some opinions sought/vote/respect then there may still be a designated smoking room inside the hospital where all smokers could happily indulge in their perfectly legal habit. Then there'd be no need for them to congregate outside. Sure they'd resemble a large prison cell but that's only fitting for filthy smokers right? smile

Incidentally when I was in a psychiatric hospital in 2006 there was a designated room. May have changed since then. Far more civilised.

TheBigJessie Wed 22-May-13 20:18:50

I never understand these threads. Tobacco is an addictive drug.

What do people think "addiction" means? It does not mean "ooh, i could fancy a piece of cake now". It means being "addicted".

MummytoKatie Wed 22-May-13 20:18:52

Stoic I think what people are objecting to is that you think that people should go through a different entrance to avoid smoke rather than maybe people who want to smoke (on a no smoking site) moving far enough out of the doorway so people can get through.

At our local hospital I have been to three entrances in the last few years all of which had smokers clustered round - the main entrance, A&E and maternity.

For maternity there is no other way in. It's hard enough to get through the maternity entrance. (Dh dropped me off, went to park the car then poor bloke spent 20 mins ringing the bell and panicking before they let him in.)

For A&E - you can also go through the main entrance but it takes much longer. Which is not ideal considering what A&E is for. Plus the main entrance also has smokers.

For Main Entrance I guess you could go in another entrance but I don't know where they are. And the hospital is set up so that you are pretty much funnelled into the main entrance unless you are very sure of where you are going.

I don't think anyone is saying that you did the wrong thing with helping your mum to smoke. It sounds like a horrible situation.

Just that you need to have some empathy for others who are also going into the hospital, maybe even more scared/upset than you and should not be subjected to a huge cloud of smoke.

EleanorFarjeon Wed 22-May-13 20:24:39

I dont care if people want to smoke outside the hospital, or what the wear to do so.

But I don't want to walk through the smoke or have it waft in when the doors open. This I object to.

Latara Wed 22-May-13 20:25:18

I have had to stop a man on his way out of the ward to have a fag because his gown was open at the back so you could see his bare bum. He didn't care! Some men don't.

I've known patients get wheeled downstairs for their last cigarette before they died.

If it made them happy then why not?

QuinionsRainbow Wed 22-May-13 20:27:06

Our local hospital has a complete no-smoking rule everywhere on the site - hence smokers congregating just outside the entrance for their fix. Even sitting in your car in the (expensive) car park for a drag is taboo - and a disciplinary offence for a staff member.

EeyoreIsh Wed 22-May-13 20:30:42

But why can't smokers be given nicotine patches when they're admitted to hospital?

Or am I missing the point, as a non-smoker?

flanbase Wed 22-May-13 20:32:01

Stoic your mother should have smoked somewhere that was not available to to other people. I find it so selfish that people had to walk through the trail of pollution your mother was making. I don't want to walk this tobacco smoke no matter who is producing it. If you want to smoke then do it somewhere you do not ruin the health of others.

hedgehogpickle Wed 22-May-13 20:34:11

meerkat They don't strictly enforce non- smoking on hospital sites as they know some people are going to do it anyway and if they were too militant about patients doing it on hospital grounds, those people would just be lighting up in the loos or (as once happened where I worked) behind the cubicle curtains on the ward, next to her oxygen mask! Far greater risk of fire which puts other people at risk.

What always annoyed me more than people smoking outside was patients expecting members of staff to wheel them down for a fag!

HollyBerryBush Wed 22-May-13 20:34:25

Whats your problem with people smoking in pyjamas?

Most of the girls round here use pyjamas or onsies as the fashion >classy area< along wit fake uggs, all tabbing away.

Until it is illegal to smoke in an outdoor environment, I suggest all the precious people find an alternative route to their destination. You cant have it all ways.

You do know stoics mother passed away recently flan?

Do you really think what you are doing is appropriate?

flanbase Wed 22-May-13 20:35:44

Smoking is a known health risk and here is no safe level involved. People who smoke should not be allowed to ruin the the health of others by smoking in public places. For non a&e nhs healthcare it should be available to non smokers only

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

VerySmallSqueak Wed 22-May-13 20:38:25

FFS flanbase this is all a bit hysterical,no?

crashdoll Wed 22-May-13 20:39:09

Holly "I suggest all the precious people find an alternative route to their destination."

I agree with you, except when it is by a main hospital entrance. Smoke doesn't bother me nor my medical condition but it may affect others.

TheChaoGoesMu Wed 22-May-13 20:41:39

Smoking is a known health risk and here is no safe level involved. People who smoke should not be allowed to ruin the the health of others by smoking in public places. For non a&e nhs healthcare it should be available to non smokers only

Well unfortunately for you, smokers pay into the system too. So we have the right to the healthcare we pay for. And, as its a free country I will smoke in public places if I so wish.

Ruin the health of others?

Exactly how much damage will it do walking through 3 seconds of smoke once in a blue moon?
Or are you at the hospital going through the huge cloud of smoke every hour, every day for years?

What about alcoholics? Overweight people? People who do not get enough exercise? People with high blood pressure due to stressful lives? People with heart problems or diabetes due to a poor diet? Are they all to be denied nhs treatment.

What you said to stoic about her mum is wrong on every level given the circumstances.
It's a good job that lack of compassion and understanding is not something that requires nhs treatment.

TattyDevine Wed 22-May-13 20:42:23

When I had my first child, he was in SCBU and I had had a C-section of the worse kind (emergency one where he was really stuck and in distress they had to butcher me a bit to get him out quickly) so I was feeling fooked. I was trying to establish breastfeeding and couldn't walk 2 floors and along a long corridor without major discomfort, but could never get a wheelchair because the c-section smokers kept using them grin

Maybe they needed them more than me! Midwives didn't give a toss so they must have.

Addiction of any kind is a bitch and a curse though.

flanbase Wed 22-May-13 20:42:28

Tantrums&Ballons - In respect to Stoic's mothers passing.
I do though not think it right to smoke where others have to be in this.

Shakey1500 Wed 22-May-13 20:42:53

flanbase Ref your quote If you want to smoke then do it somewhere you do not ruin the health of others.

We used to. In a dedicated smoking room. Until the enforced ban.

Corygal Wed 22-May-13 20:45:52

Yes. One makes marvellous new friends, too (more interesting than non-smokers).

MummytoKatie Wed 22-May-13 20:46:23

Holly One way into the delivery ward. 7cm dilated. Contracting roughly every 3 minutes. (Took the "don't come in too soon" a bit too seriously). Didn't want to walk through a cloud of smoke similar to that in "Stars in their eyes."

But had little choice about it.

LastTangoInDevonshire Wed 22-May-13 20:46:40

Well said Shakey - no-one EVER smoked outside our hospital entrance..........until they took away the outside smoking room !

Suggest you anti's lobby your hospitals to get them re-instated????

pierpressure Wed 22-May-13 20:46:54

I must have been less addicted than some of you.
Was in for 5 days. After 3 days on morphine I came too enough to want to smoke, but was still so ill I could not physically go outside . By day 4 I just was too embarrassed to wheel the drip down in the lift to stand on some grotty cigarette strewn car park roof.
Once I got home i decided it would be truly stupid to go back to it, so am 10 months free now.
2 stone heavier and still feel slightly cheated as I "hadn't decided" mind, but still glad. Not least as have probably saved well over a thousand pounds.

WafflyVersatile Wed 22-May-13 20:47:37

I went to visit a terminally ill woman in hospital who got me to push her in her wheelchair, her colostomy bag nestling in her lap, outside so she could have a cigarette. I don't suppose she gave a fuck what people thought.

flan you can have whatever view you want.

What you said about stoics mum being selfish was wrong. You could have just said "I think it is selfish to stand outside blah blah blah"

You didn't have to say what you did.

You are obviously not a smoker. That's good. My nan was a smoker. She was in a hospital bed for 2 months. I used to take her outside for a cigarette because she wanted it. And she was dying.

You don't agree with that, fine. But your suggestion that smokers do not get nhs treatment is ridiculous

I can see why people do. It is an addiction after all.

When I was in after my operation I just felt too rotten and was too drugged up to even bother about my craving! grin

LynetteScavo Wed 22-May-13 20:57:05

You hospital needs the shouty thing my hospital has....every now and then it shouts out ani-smoking messages. I think it has a sensor, as it shouted at me when I was going in at 2am once. I definately wasn't smoking.

The hospital staff stand a few meters away, sheltering in the car park.

Ah, I too remember the good ol' days of the smoking room on the maternity ward. DH had to walk through it to get to the loos. When a pregnant lady who spend the entire day in there said to him "you go to the toilet a lot" he held back from saying "you smoke a lot." grin

I'm not shocked by people smoking in their PJ's outside the hospital. I do feel sorry for them though. (And I will soooo never wear PJ's in hospital. I will wear "sports wear" or "lounge wear.")

flanbase Wed 22-May-13 20:57:15

T&B - I stand by what I said. There is nothing wrong in my words.

AmVfuckedNowLetFloodgatesOpen Wed 22-May-13 21:00:12

it's totally disgusting and why is treatment being given to those who are ruiningtheir health by smoking. If you want health care then no smoking and I'd say a test to prove this.

And to THAT - I'd add, 'let's go down a Hitleresque/'perfect person' selection path.... and NOT give treatment to anyone who has obviously either lost their humanity; compassion; basic human comprehension; & empathy genes.'

As their 'worth' is manifestly way less than others - even if they don't 'smoke'.

crashdoll Wed 22-May-13 21:00:18

There is another option to smoking right next to the door in my hospital, it's called the smoking shelters, nice benches and everything! There really is no excuse. That is selfish.

HollyBerryBush Wed 22-May-13 21:03:24

One way into the delivery ward. 7cm dilated. Contracting roughly every 3 minutes.

Oh well, hold your breath, smoke doesn't go that far outside

flanbase Wed 22-May-13 21:06:17

Floodgates - there is no safe amount to smoke. It's a known health risk and does no good in any way. Why should these people get nhs care when kids have to go to america to get operations refused ? or postcode lottery for cancer refused. It makes sense to say to people that if they choose to smoke they then pay for their healthcare rather than just be able to access the nhs like that.

MummytoKatie Wed 22-May-13 21:08:23

Holly Obviously. But it's not a time when you are at your most rational.

And holding my breath didn't stop my hair smelling slightly of it.

TheChaoGoesMu Wed 22-May-13 21:08:46

Who do you think pays for the Nhs flanbase? You think it's a freebie gift from the government?

Shakey1500 Wed 22-May-13 21:08:56

flanbase would you also say that morbidly obese folk who have no medical reason to be overweight should also be denied treatment?

VerySmallSqueak Wed 22-May-13 21:12:19

flanbase there are still many people who started smoking before it was identified as a health risk.

What level of care would you refuse to a smoker?
All levels?
If they got an uti would you refuse them antibiotics?

Don't know if you've got DC's.
if you have,and one decides to smoke would you see them go without any health care.

Don't be afraid to admit that you've been a bit OTT.Stop digging.

TwistTee Wed 22-May-13 21:13:39

There should be no smoking anywhere on hospital grounds. We wouldn't condone drunks with bottles or drug addicts crowding A&E entrances or accept an alchoholic can drink to get him through his stay at hospital so why is it different for smoking? The fact that its an addiction just isn't a good enough reason.
There isn't a single outdoor space at my local hospital that you can sit in without either breathing in someone smoke or being surrounded by hundreds of cigarette butts.

Thurlow Wed 22-May-13 21:14:37

Going down flan's truly excellent way of thinking...

Anyone who smokes should be denied medical treatment
Anyone who drinks more than the recommended allowance should be denied medical treatment
Anyone who is overweight and eating more than their recommended calorie intake should be denied medical treatment because they're not trying to lose weight
Anyone who takes part in a dangerous sport should be denied medical treatment when they break a bone doing their sport
Anyone who chooses to drive when they could conceivably walk should be denied medical treatment if they are involved in a car accident

VerySmallSqueak Wed 22-May-13 21:16:24

And I'm getting so angry about the level of hysteria over smoking on MN lately.

You will not shrivel into a screaming ball of agony over walking past a smoker in the fresh air.

There's a lot of perfect people around suddenly.

Can you take some time off from polishing your halos to develop a bit of tolerance?

TheChaoGoesMu Wed 22-May-13 21:17:47

Don't forget people who don't exercise at least three times a week thurlow.

crashdoll Wed 22-May-13 21:18:48

Seriously, it's a bloody hospital. Have some compassion, there are ill people there. It's not like it's the supermarket. Tolerance both ways would not go amiss. It makes fuck all difference to my medical condition but someone with a lung condition may feel differently....

Thurlow Wed 22-May-13 21:19:49

Of course. And food poisoning, it was probably their own fault for cooking badly in the first place.

flanbase Wed 22-May-13 21:20:03

I'm just saying what I think. The tax payers pay for nhs. It costs billions. People who smoke are doing an activity that ruins their health & that of others caught in the passive smoke.

pictish Wed 22-May-13 21:22:22

Flanbase - tell me true - how many people have you met that have had their 'health ruined' by walking past a smoker in a doorway?
How many?

Shakey1500 Wed 22-May-13 21:22:41

So say what you think on my question of "do you think morbidly obese folk with no medical reason for being overweight should also be denied treatment" then.

ladyMaryQuiteContrary Wed 22-May-13 21:23:40

You know, if you look up there's wards with sick patients in them. That's where the smoke goes; in through the windows so the other patients can breathe the smoke in. They can't move. One person lights up, then just as they bugger off someone else lights up. Look around; that's why there's no smoking signs everywhere. It's not rocket science!

Thurlow Wed 22-May-13 21:24:18

But there are dozens of activities that ruin people's health. Most of them, like smoking, are legal. Smoking at least pays money into the system. Base jumping doesn't. Hell, even rugby doesn't.

According to the HM Treasury, smoking revenue in 2011/12 was around £12bn. A recent ASH publication put the cost to the NHS at around £5bn.

Easy maths - and the reason why smoking won't be criminalised for a very, very long time.

blondefriend Wed 22-May-13 21:24:24

My ds spent a lot of time in SCBU and then Great Ormond Street. I'm afraid I hated the sight of pregnant women smoking outside the entrance. Why was my child so poorly when I did everything right and they could get away with it? My post-natal, hormonal state meant that just looking at them made me burst into tears. It just wasn't fair!

Outside GOSH a lot of mothers stand in their pjs smoking. I would prefer it if they moved a bit down the road but these are parents whose children are going through a hell most people will never, ever imagine. Their mums are in pjs despite not being ill themselves. They may have been up all night helping nurses administer drugs, holding their child's hand as they scream in pain, cuddled a baby as it died, cuddled a fellow mother who has just watched their child die.

However watching 2 women chatting and smoking accompanied by a child on an oxygen cylinder will always be a memory that shocked me completely.

TheChaoGoesMu Wed 22-May-13 21:24:53

Don't you think smokers are tax payers flanbase? Who also pay a huge amount of tax on each packet of fags they smoke?

flanbase Wed 22-May-13 21:24:58

Pictish -There is no safe level of passive smoking

pictish Wed 22-May-13 21:26:14

How many?

flanbase Wed 22-May-13 21:26:44

The tax smokers pay goes into the system and it would be interesting to see the reduction in revenue from this compared to the increase in better health & therefore reduced stress on the nhs

Caught in passive smoke?

3 seconds walking past a smoker.

Please get a grip.

flanbase Wed 22-May-13 21:27:54

Pitish - You are asking how many people are health effected by the passive smoke they walk through? my answer is everyone of them

crashdoll Wed 22-May-13 21:28:17

3 seconds for my friend with Cystic Fibrosis who desperately needs a lung transport is too much.

pictish Wed 22-May-13 21:28:22

Health ruined you said.
How many?

VerySmallSqueak Wed 22-May-13 21:28:35

flanbase if you are so anxious about this dreadful passive smoking danger posed by passing people outdoors I would watch your blood pressure and stress levels!

Relax a bit.Really.

ladyMaryQuiteContrary Wed 22-May-13 21:28:46

Surely any revenue from the tax on cigarettes is wiped out by the cost to the NHS/benefits agency/employers? If 'Bob' gets cancer from smoking then it's going to cost more to treat him and pay his benefits whilst he's off work, then there's his employer who's paid for his cigarette breaks for the past 10 years. People who don't smoke don't get the equivalent of a cigarette break. 5 mins every 1 hours, once a day, 5 days a week, 48 weeks a year for x years will mount up.

Shakey1500 Wed 22-May-13 21:28:58

I wouldn't hold your breath (!) pictish on getting an answer. Seems flanbase is ignoring you and me both.

Sirzy Wed 22-May-13 21:29:15

Seriously, it's a bloody hospital. Have some compassion, there are ill people there. It's not like it's the supermarket. Tolerance both ways would not go amiss. It makes fuck all difference to my medical condition but someone with a lung condition may feel differently....


I don't care if people want to smoke but I wish they would at least make a small amount of effort not to do it right infront of the doors where people have no choice to walk through it. Cigarette smoke is a trigger for my 3 year olds asthma, his asthma is severe enough that he has had close on 30 trips to hospital so yes I would rather not have to walk him through smoke on the way into A and E when he is in the middle of an attack.

Thurlow Wed 22-May-13 21:29:44

Well, considering most of the estimates take in to account smoking-related illness, there figures really do speak for themselves.

You haven't answered all the questions about what other illnesses and people shouldn't be treated.

(FWIW, I was that smoker outsider the hospital but everyone saying people should walk as far away from windows and doors is completely right)

pictish Wed 22-May-13 21:30:27

Ok. I'll answer for you. None. That's how many. You don't know of a single person who has had their health ruined by walking past a smoker in a doorway.

You're just opening your mouth and letting your stomach rumble.

Salmotrutta Wed 22-May-13 21:32:02

The maths is straightforward.

Smokers pay in about £10 billion and cost around £3 billion.

We are subsidising others with our taxes. wink

Plus, we mostly die off before we start costing money in geriatric care etc.

It's a win- win.

ladyMaryQuiteContrary Wed 22-May-13 21:32:21

What makes your right to smoke more important than someone's right to breathe clean air, pictish? confused

flanbase Wed 22-May-13 21:32:34

pictish -my health is damaged by being in passive smoke. The smallest amount has devistating effects

Thurlow Wed 22-May-13 21:32:36

Very true about the geriatric care, salmotrutta grin

Salmotrutta Wed 22-May-13 21:33:07

Oh, and I'd never smoke around any doorway. I don't think that's fair.

flanbase Wed 22-May-13 21:33:09

shakey - your answer is in the word "morbidly"

Shakey1500 Wed 22-May-13 21:33:43

Can I just add, that I agree (as a smoker) that passive smoking is a real health risk.

And it's that bad that the Government is banning smoking, the sale of cigarettes as of tomorrow. Oh..wait.

pictish Wed 22-May-13 21:34:07

It'd perfectly legal for me to smoke outdoors, so tough.

ladyMaryQuiteContrary Wed 22-May-13 21:35:00

It's perfectly legal for me to tell people to piss off as well, it doesn't mean I should do it.

Salmotrutta Wed 22-May-13 21:35:06

Yeah, the air would be sooooo clean if no-one smoked.

Oh wait... Exhaust fumes, burning fossil fuels, sulphur dioxide from factories.

pictish Wed 22-May-13 21:35:36

I don't smoke around doorways either btw - but the hysteria on this thread is getting on my tits.

EleanorFarjeon Wed 22-May-13 21:35:44

I don't even think about passive smoking when I walk past a smoker, but even after just walking behind them for a few seconds the stink gets in my hair and clothes.

This is what annoys me about smokers. I don't want to smell of their fags and some smokers think that's unreasonable.

I try to give them the widest of berths, but when they congregate around entrances it can be impossible.

Smokers don't realise how smelly it is, I think.

LarvalFormOfOddSock Wed 22-May-13 21:35:54

Newcomer to the thread...yes, I would smoke outside the hospital in my nightwear and I did. I was in following an overdose which was precipitated by many years of not being treated for my condition (panic disorder with agoraphobia). It was all too much. I was taken into A&E wearing underwear and an overcoat so that's what I went out and smoked in.

FWIW it was no-where near any ward windows and there were a whole bunch of A&E staff smoking with me. I had nothing else to wear, had no phone with me and after I was admitted no friends or family were allowed in to see me either. I hadn't eaten for 3 days and they couldn't even provide me with food as I was admitted in the late evening.

It would have been great if I had thought to take a day dress with me when I was sectioned but, sadly, that was the last thing on my mind.


flanbase Wed 22-May-13 21:36:16

I expected no less from you Pictish. It is legal and the day that it becomes illegal will be a landmark victory for those who are affected - and will also improve the health of many

Salmotrutta Wed 22-May-13 21:36:19

Not to mention naturally occurring radon in some very unlucky areas...

Shakey1500 Wed 22-May-13 21:36:29

That makes no sense. So morbidly obese people should not be admitted to hospital and given treatment? Or dietary advice from an NHS employed professional. Or given any paid NHS assistance at all?

ladyMaryQuiteContrary Wed 22-May-13 21:37:20

You know what's in the smoke from a cigarette?


Cancer-causing chemicals in tobacco smoke
Tar - a mixture of dangerous chemicals
Arsenic - used in wood preservatives
Benzene - an industrial solvent, refined from crude oil
Cadmium - used in batteries
Formaldehyde - used in mortuaries and paint manufacturing
Polonium-210 - a highly radioactive element
Chromium - used to manufacture dye, paints and alloys
1,3-Butadiene - used in rubber manufacturing
Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons - a group of dangerous DNA-damaging chemicals
Nitrosamines - another group of DNA-damaging chemicals
Acrolein - formerly used as a chemical weapon
Other chemicals
Other poisons in cigarette smoke
Hydrogen cyanide - used as an industrial pesticide
Carbon monoxide - found in car exhausts and used in chemicals manufacturing
Nitrogen oxides - a major component of smog
Ammonia - used to make fertilisers and explosives
More poisons

VerySmallSqueak Wed 22-May-13 21:37:44

I think it has to be remembered that over the past few years smokers have found less and less places where they can go.

The 'fresh'' air is the 'fresh' air and while vehicles can spew their exhausts into it,I think any arguments relating to its' purity when it comes to the declining number of smokers around are pretty much null and void.

LynetteScavo Wed 22-May-13 21:37:50

You will not shrivel into a screaming ball of agony over walking past a smoker in the fresh air.

No, I will just throw up, if I'm pregnant, and then you will look at me like I'm the revolting one.

Walking past smoking, heavily pregnant women, out side a hospital, when you have miscarried, and you did everything by the book, even though your baby wasn't planned infuriating. My inner child wanted to stamped my foot and shout "It's so bloody unfair!"

Salmotrutta Wed 22-May-13 21:38:51

It's the banishing of smokers to the outside that's caused this.

Designated smoking rooms with fans and vents would make much more sense.

At least then we'd all be tucked up in one place.

flanbase Wed 22-May-13 21:39:20

salmotrutta - air pollution is a huge factor and the WHO guidelines have to be reached.

TheChaoGoesMu Wed 22-May-13 21:39:39

You're just opening your mouth and letting your stomach rumble.

Beautifully put. grin

LadyBeagleEyes Wed 22-May-13 21:40:05

If you go to a country that doesn't tax tobacco, say the Canaries eg, they cost about £3 quid, half that for tobacco.
As a pack of cigarettes here is about £7.50, then that is every tax payer putting about £5 into the economy every day (I smoke tobacco, so say half that).
There are still enough smokers in this country that are paying a huge amount of money into the ecomomy, if we weren't and if the tax accrued was not bloody worth it smoking would have been banned.
So if I go into a hospital with a smoke related illness, at least I'll know I've paid for it, unlike the silly bugger in the next bed who decided to do an extreme sport.
And, BTW, when I've been in hospital, I always wear naice pyjamas and a classy dressing gown wink.

ladyMaryQuiteContrary Wed 22-May-13 21:40:16

They should prescribe nicotine patches on the NHS so patients and visitors don't need to smoke outside the hospital. Oh, wait...!

TheChaoGoesMu Wed 22-May-13 21:40:40

At least then we'd all be tucked up in one place.

Absolutely. In the warm.

Salmotrutta Wed 22-May-13 21:41:34

LadyMary - how ironic. A fair number of those chemicals are being belched out all around you from industrial and other sources too!

And at much higher levels.

But just ignore that inconvenient little fact eh?

Or campaign to shut down heavy industry too.

flanbase Wed 22-May-13 21:43:07

Shaky - the medically obese. That's a topic I don't know to say on just that people should be offered help to get back to a healthy weight. Operations have more risk in this category of person. There's a lot that can go wrong from being overweight with no reason for this. Some people are obese from taking certain medications, not being able to be active

Salmotrutta Wed 22-May-13 21:43:50

What, the WHO guidelines for pollution by industry have to be reached flanbase?

flanbase Wed 22-May-13 21:44:48

No one is discounting the environmental pollution which is huge and very dangerous for all. I have to wear a mask against this sometimes.

ladyMaryQuiteContrary Wed 22-May-13 21:44:56

One step at a time, Salmotrutta. I trained as a nurse. In the middle of winter and with the frost and snow on the ground, the only people outside were the smokers. It is an addiction but it doesn't just harm the smokers but those who are unlucky enough to breathe the smoke in.

Salmotrutta Wed 22-May-13 21:45:13

Yes, yes, and some are obese because they eat too much.

But I don't judge them. That's their business.

TheChaoGoesMu Wed 22-May-13 21:45:44

I think cars should be banned. All car drivers are selfish with the amount of pollution they cause.

<rattles car keys in hand>

What about the people who are obese because they eat too much and don't exercise then flan
Do they get treatment on the nhs or not?

I'm confused. There are many categories of people who do things that are not good for their health. So how do you decide who gets treatment?

flanbase Wed 22-May-13 21:45:46

sure -the WHO have guidelines on pollution levels and if this lower limit can be reached then health will improve. I'll look up a link

Salmotrutta Wed 22-May-13 21:46:44

But LadyMary - the air pollution is constantly at a much higher level from cars, industry and the like!

Well flan if you are wearing a mask, then surely that protects you from cigarette smoke as well??

Salmotrutta Wed 22-May-13 21:47:35

I think rugby players and horse-riders should be banned.

VerySmallSqueak Wed 22-May-13 21:48:13

Lynette I will not look at you like that.
I'm a non smoker.

I just think smokers get treated like sub humans at times,and it's not right.

I do think people should smoke away from entrances/exits/bottlenecks FWIW.
But when they do there will always be someone moaning about smoke wafting their way on the prevailing winds.

Shakey1500 Wed 22-May-13 21:48:47

Yes I know there are lots of medical reasons for being overweight hmm

That's why after you had said that people who knowingly take health risks should not have treatment on the NHS I expressly asked if you thought that morbidly obese people who are overweight for no other reason than overeating i.e willingly/choosing to put their heath at risk should also be denied NHS treatment.

But you know what? Don't bother. A colleague said something similar once and I was of a mind to tell her she was taking out of her arse. I didn't though.

And people that raise money by parachute jumps and things like that.

Selfish bastards grin

Oh, my ds1 broke his arm. Because he was playing football.
I guess that was his fault for playing. How dare the nhs treat him.

crashdoll Wed 22-May-13 21:49:54

I have seen lots of hysteria on smoking threads but apart from flanbase, there really isn't any hysteria. I don't think asking for compassion wrt smoking in hospital grounds is a big ask. I'm suprised the big NO SMOKING signs don't make you feel guilty about it but whatever. If you're well enough to struggle outside to have a fag, a few steps more shouldn't be too difficult.

flanbase Wed 22-May-13 21:50:00

T&B - if someone is deliberatly sabotaging their health then it does make sense to say that there will be an additional cost. This is just my opinion and I place it with smoking. You are trying to pin me down on many categories of other people and all I can say is when people are refused treatment because of where they live or availability of treatments and then a smoker gets full medical care that in a few years will have on affect you just have to say something needs to be done. I know it's not a popular opinion but it's mine. It's annoying for sure but once you are on the other side of health and see people not get treatment this is how it is

But you can't just choose smokers for the reason people are not getting medical care.
There any many different ways of knowingly putting your health at risk. Overrating. Extreme sports. Alcohol. What makes smokers any different to any of these people? That's what I don't understand.

Salmotrutta Wed 22-May-13 21:53:29

What about people who didnt eat enough fibre and ate too much barbecued meat and increased their risk of colon cancer?

Will they incur extra costs?

Our local hospital have banned smoking on the entire site therefore most people who smoke do it just outside the door as it's outside. Personally I have smoked well away from the entrance when I was in hospital... and I always made sure to wear my smoking jacket over my pj's.

crashdoll Wed 22-May-13 21:53:55

Smokers actually hugely stimulate the economy. Also, not sure why you are bringing the postcode lottery into it?

Salmotrutta Wed 22-May-13 21:54:48

And frankly flan - if you have to wear a mask for air pollution then a bit of fag reek is the least of your worries hmm

SoggySummer Wed 22-May-13 21:55:53

I can kind of see patients that do tgis logic although they should use the designated areas.

I used to smoke 20 years ago. Back then the hospitals had smoking rooms for patients. I was in hopsital for months and months and used to saunter quite a distance from the ward to a smoking room in my PJs and dressing gown. The fact they have outside areas for smoking now - is not the smoking patients fault. In the summer I can remember a kind nurse opening the ward doors to the garden (alongside a car park and hospital offices) and putting a few chairs out there for smokers and other patients to use. They even used to bring the tea trolley out to us.

If you have a drip in or canula(not sure of the proper name or spelling) thingy in the back of your hand etc etc then getting changed every time you need/want a smoke is not ideal.

Its a hospital - everyone is in their PJs most of the time anyway.

There are other things I choose to get judgey about. However, a big bug bear of mine is people who smoke in door ways - shop,pubs, restaurants etc etc - what they wear does not cross my mind.

pictish Wed 22-May-13 21:56:23

Flanbase - just because you really want smokers to be to blame for everything, doesn't mean they are.

Salmotrutta Wed 22-May-13 21:56:55

And just to re-iterate I never smoke around doorways.

flanbase Wed 22-May-13 21:57:01

People drive, cross the road, cook their dinner - all sorts of everyday activities and the whole of life is one big health risk and no one leaves it alive. Smoking does no good in anyway for health, the buts going on the ground, the power to produce the product, transport for it. The tax has been mentioned but in all of it perhaps it wouldn't be missed with the increased in health.

Salmotrutta Wed 22-May-13 21:59:29

It would be missed. Because there would be a £7 billion pound shortfall!

And we'd all live a few years longer - enough to start costing a lot money in geriatric services.

LadyBeagleEyes Wed 22-May-13 21:59:59

I live in the Highlands in a very popular hill walking area.
My ex was in Mountain Rescue, do you know the cost of a helicopter to get someone off the hill, apart from the blokes that to it voluntarily?
Silly incidents like a twisted ankle, or more serious ones like an avalanche.
Are they sabotaging their health?
IMO yes to a certain extent, but they're doing a risky sport so deemed worthy.
I on the other hand will remain an unhealthy smoker, until I can give up but at least I know, with the taxes I pay on my fags, I've paid into the system.

ladyMaryQuiteContrary Wed 22-May-13 22:03:29

My father died of COPD 5 years ago. It's a horrible way to die. He was housebound and hooked up to oxygen and he spent years knowing that he was going to die, just waiting. I was always ill as a child; constant barking coughs, tonsillitis, chest infections. It all stopped when I moved out. I am very anti smoking, especially around children because they don't have a voice that is heard, neither do the patients in the wards who have to breathe it in when someone smokes outside their windows. I don't really care about the revenue they generate or how much they cost the NHS if I'm being honest, I care that there's parents who will not see their grandchildren grow up because their addiction will kill them.

flanbase Wed 22-May-13 22:04:22

Back to the op and it will only be when smoking in public is illegal that anything will be done to protect the health of non smokers

TwistTee Wed 22-May-13 22:04:32

What Crashdoll said.

No hysteria, some of us just don't like smoking outside a hospital. I don't like walking through it or not being able to sit on a bench because of it, I don't like the mess it leaves, I don't like the message it sends out.

flanbase Wed 22-May-13 22:06:33

LadyMary - sorry to hear on your fathers passing from copd.

LarvalFormOfOddSock Wed 22-May-13 22:07:42

Twist, I don't like it either. That's why they should have smoking rooms.

TheChaoGoesMu Wed 22-May-13 22:09:02

Well considering the revenue that smoking brings in, I can't see it being banned in my lifetime.

ladyMaryQuiteContrary Wed 22-May-13 22:09:22

Thank you, flanbase. I am very biased as I used to beg him to stop and he couldn't. He did when he was diagnosed but it was too late. I'm sorry if I offend but I do think it's a very selfish addiction; not all smokers are considerate enough not to smoke around non smokers or children.

LadyBeagleEyes Wed 22-May-13 22:12:11

Is it really £7 billion Salmo?
I deserve a medal.

LarvalFormOfOddSock Wed 22-May-13 22:12:59

LadyMary, how about improving NHS help for those trying to quit then? Never been offered to me. But I'm a mental case so I obviously don't count.

Buddhagirl Wed 22-May-13 22:14:47

I would

ladyMaryQuiteContrary Wed 22-May-13 22:14:59

I thought the NHS gave out nicotine patches etc?

There's no shame in having mental health problems, Larval. You deserve the same care as everyone else. You need to complain.

flanbase Wed 22-May-13 22:15:26

LadyMary - you don't offend with what you say. People that have health have such chance and I see teenagers smoking and I want to say stop now in case you regret it later or the passive smoking affects your friends. I've never smoked and it was chance I didn't smoke and now I say thank goodness as my breathing would be in a much worse state. My kids wont smoke and all those here that will say wait and see on this I can reply already and say I know they wont for sure.

kawliga Wed 22-May-13 22:17:44

*Exactly how much damage will it do walking through 3 seconds of smoke once in a blue moon?
Or are you at the hospital going through the huge cloud of smoke every hour, every day for years?*

This. I don't smoke, but I also don't go into ridiculous hysterics if I have to spend 3 seconds walking past a smoker. If you want fresh air then find somewhere with fresh air to perch yourself. If the smoker is smoking at the only available passage-way maybe hold your breath as you go past? You won't actually drop dead if you hold your breath for all of 3 seconds. I do this sometimes when I walk past buses spewing out noxious fumes that I really don't want to breath in.

Live and let live.

ladyMaryQuiteContrary Wed 22-May-13 22:17:56

They should ban it all-together, flan.

LarvalFormOfOddSock Wed 22-May-13 22:19:30

LadyMary, I was told on a second occasion that if I voluntarily stayed overnight on the MH ward that they would provide me with nicotine patches. They didn't. It was a ruse to get me to stay voluntarily. I have never ever been offered nicotine patches or anything of the sort.

flan you cannot know your DCs won't ever try a cigarette.

Sorry but you can't. You can hope they dont, you can educate them. You can't know for sure.

ladyMaryQuiteContrary Wed 22-May-13 22:21:40

Your GP should have a 'stop smoking' campaign or something similar, Larval. smokefree.nhs.uk smile

flanbase Wed 22-May-13 22:22:31

kaliga - I am not in the state of health to be able to hold my breath as long as someone with normal lungs. Next time you have to walk outside first run for one minute or so on the spot at full pace util you are out of breathe and your heart is going faster than normal for you, then hold your nose and breathe only through a straw in your mouth. Now walk by a smoker and you will experience a much better version of what it's like for me. Live and let live I wish could apply to not just the smoker.

My friend broke his back when he was 24. He spent 6 weeks strapped to a hospital bed unable to move, staring out a window day in day out going through nicotine withdrawal on top of everything else. When he was starting to regain his mobility one of his only pleasures was shuffling to the door of the hospital a couple of times a day to have a fag.

If anyone had seriously suggested he should get dressed to do so I would happily have smacked them on his behalf.

You can't possibly have idea what those patients standing outside the hospitalare dealing with, how sick or injured they are. What they are wearing is of no importance whatsoever and anyone who judges them based on a 5 second snapshot of their life is quite frankly an idiot of the highest order.

LarvalFormOfOddSock Wed 22-May-13 22:27:22

It's just assumed that MH patients smoke. If they can't even begin to treat our MH problems, why are they going to bother about smoking?

We SHOULD be offered CBT. We SHOULD have choice over where we're treated. We SHOULD be treated with respect. We SHOULD we SHOULD we SHOULD, but we're not.

And that's not just those with MH issues.

flanbase Wed 22-May-13 22:28:13

larval - your gp will be able to help on your being smoke free.

LarvalFormOfOddSock Wed 22-May-13 22:28:27

Well said SummerRain.

flanbase Wed 22-May-13 22:29:23

I've ever come across the assumption that MH patients smoke

LarvalFormOfOddSock Wed 22-May-13 22:30:16

flanbase. Thank you, but I am. I quit some time before I became pregnant. My GP offered no help whatsoever. It was deemed that it would add to my anxieties.

LarvalFormOfOddSock Wed 22-May-13 22:32:35
flanbase Wed 22-May-13 22:38:23

Thanks for the link Larval. A quote from it "The failure of smoking prevention and treatment in this group is largely down to an acceptance of smoking as a "normal behaviour" and is an indictment on public health and clinical services, it said." There has to be the support needed and access to stopping smoking as for people without mh. I'm sorry to hear that your gp didn't help you as they should have.

LarvalFormOfOddSock Wed 22-May-13 22:46:27

Thank you.

LarvalFormOfOddSock Wed 22-May-13 22:48:06

But getting back to the OP. No, I had no shame. Why would you when you want to be dead?

flanbase Wed 22-May-13 22:51:40

ladymary - I agree smoking should be banned.
for the poster who said on my wearing a mask in pollution - I have to and it's very difficult as it's hard to breath in it as it gets hot and humid on my face. Wearing this and going through smoke adds another dimension to feeling blocked.
On all the comments on doing dangerous sports and drinking I would say it's a choice but can be done in reference to safety guidelines. As long as the chute opens fine and safety followed, as long as in nhs guidelines for alcohol. With smoking there is no safe area to refer to.

flanbase Wed 22-May-13 22:53:12

typing - dangerous sports & drinking to be done at different times

kawliga Wed 22-May-13 22:55:57

flan, how long does it actually take you to walk past a smoker, and how much smoke do you breathe in while you're walking past, and how often are you in a situation where there's no way you can find a different route without going past the smoker?

Just calling for some perspective here, we often momentarily encounter hazards in this life. I don't agree that people should be banned from doing anything that might pose a hazard to me if I happen to walk past.

flanbase Wed 22-May-13 23:49:56

To get past a smoker standing smoking depends on the location. Up a flight of stairs is going to be tougher than a flat stretch. The amount I breathe in depends on the air movement and again on location for eg if by a door or going in through an open window. It is very hard to hold my breathe as other people can and sometime impossible really. Every day I have this issue and I have my routes planned as best I can. I would like smoking in public to be banned. I can't think of a comparison to help explain. It's like someone with a nut allergy being unable to predict or get away fast enough from them & not being able to refuse them. If that helps to give it a context. The nut allergy person has the moment to ask on nuts being in foods/ products and to avoid though and people respect this. For smoke it's the smoker who has the legal right and not myself to avoid it as I never know where a smoker will be. It's not the perfect comparison and no offence to nut allergy people/families as I know it's a very simplified version of having this allergy

KhaosandKalamity Thu 23-May-13 05:54:57

Is it legal to smoke on hospital grounds in the UK? NZ hospitals seem to be almost constructed of no smoking signs, and so help you god if you disobey. But we do get people in pajamas walking across the road to smoke. Being a smoker something about being stuck inside in a stressful situation where you can't smoke drives me insane with the desire for a ciggy, but the nurses and doctors treat you like the devil if you ask if you can go out for one.

MiaowTheCat Thu 23-May-13 08:28:22

I queued for Costa Coffee repeatedly in my pyjamas (and post-childbirth PJs are never the most glamorous kind).

That's worth another good three pages.

Thurlow Thu 23-May-13 09:52:17

Yes, but someone taking part in a dangerous sport is deliberately putting themselves at risk. Take rugby - a great sport, but god knows how many rugby players end up in A&E every weekend with dislocated shoulders and broken noses.

I might smoke, but I don't do anything else that puts me at a higher than average risk of needing NHS treatment. I'm not overweight, I don't drink more than the guidelines, I don't take part in any sports or activities that have a risk of injury... So how are you going to measure that? How on earth can you pick one arbitary thing that is bad for you and say that that is the one legal thing that people who do should get less NHS treatment for? And how are you going to decide which of their medical problems is actually caused by smoking? I repeatedly suffer sinus problems - one argument says they could be exacerbated by smoking, but of course they are also caused by hayfever - should I not get any treatment for that?

You need to actually think through your arguments before coming out with a statement like that.

flanbase Thu 23-May-13 11:04:46

thurlow it comes down to what is a safe limit for something. All our actions have a risk to them and life is a risk itself. Smoking is never good for the health. There is no safe limit or any possible safety guidelines to follow. If you choose to smoke then imho you should pay more for your healthcare. It's not a popular thing to say but it's my opinion. You made a choice to smoke which will be doing you no good and passive smoke is not good for the health of those around you. If all smokers paid an extra amount for the nhs then it would make people think twice before making the free choice to start to smoke. If people who drove recklessly could always get their cars fixed at no extra cost because everyone paid the same car insurance it would be an outcry.

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