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to feel threatened by her?

(78 Posts)
waddlecakes Tue 21-May-13 16:27:43

Bit of a tough one. I've had a somewhat unsteady relationship with a man I'm mad about. It's been going on for 7-8 months and has been difficult as he has some mental health issues but things have been getting much better.

Last week he introduced me to one of his girl mates who he is very close to. We were at this event and the girl and I ended up alone in the bar - it turns out we were able to connect really deeply, and I really really liked her. She said that when he had told her he wanted to introduce her to me, she had expected to feel jealous, but having spoken to me she couldn't find it in her to feel anything negagtive towards me. The way things turned out we were having such a good time the two of us that we embarked on a pretty magical evening of swapping confidences, and we ditched my man and his other mates for a good 4 hours.

Sounds pretty perfect - except at one point she told me that she and my man had kissed ''once or twice'' before, but nothing else ever happened. It did send a pang through my heart...later on she said she'd had this intense dream about him the other night.

Arggh I don't know, I feel paranoid about it because I really got on with her amazingly well and I'm pretty sure if he was worried/had anything to hide he wouldn't have been cool with me wandering off with her for hours. At the same time though...she's a musician like him, I saw some scars on her wrists and she appears to be some sort of ''tortured soul''. It makes me feel insecure like I'm not interesting enough I suppose...sorry, I really just needed to get this out!

StealthOfficialCrispTester Tue 21-May-13 16:30:14

This all sounds very childish and intensive.Self harm is not interesting just harmful. Sounds like yiure expected to have pretty deep relationships with his friends from the start. Which js nice but ...

ll31 Tue 21-May-13 16:33:06

If seven months in,its been difficult and you're suspicious if his relationship with her,walk away,how is this going to improve?

ll31 Tue 21-May-13 16:33:35

Of his rel'ship that is

CalamityJ Tue 21-May-13 17:05:16

Men and women can be friends without an agenda. If they haven't got together yet what makes you think they will after you've been in a relationship with him for 7-8 months? Chill out and focus on making things get even better smile

JamieandtheMagicTorch Tue 21-May-13 17:07:02


sounds a bit too intense for me.

self-harm isn't evidence of being interesting.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Tue 21-May-13 17:08:16

....but if being tortured does turn out to be interesting for your DP (no evidence for that, but it's what you are worried about), then maybe he isn't the man for you

JamieandtheMagicTorch Tue 21-May-13 17:09:04

Oh Gawd

I didn't mean being tortured (verb) I meant being tortured (adjective)

thebody Tue 21-May-13 17:10:19

It's sounds like you are writing a novel.

'Magical evening, deep connection, Tourtered soul' Etc.

All sounds a bit intensive and a tad childish to be honest but if you like a drama it sounds satisfying.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Tue 21-May-13 17:13:20

I'd be interested in why your relationship is unsteady

StealthOfficialCrispTester Tue 21-May-13 17:13:56

thank you thebody. It does sound like a teen novel. Twilight has a lot to answer for.

StealthOfficialCrispTester Tue 21-May-13 17:15:11

I mean if you've had an "intense dream" about your friend's OH, the normal way to handle it is to avoid him wherever possible and feel really awkward. Not tell her about it in a heady evening of swopping confidences, surely?

LemonPeculiarJones Tue 21-May-13 17:17:40

It may be that she targeted you and was deliberately seductive (to you, in a friendship/deep connection way) in order to cross boundaries and be involved in his relationship.

Because if she's in your head, too, then she is all over the relationship - they have history, she wants to tell you he's still in her dreams, you feel a 'connection' to her, you're now threatened - it's all a bit incestuous.

It reminds me of some of the dramas of late teenage/early twenties.

Fun, intense, kind of novelistic and romantic, tortured souls and deep's amazing fun but not to be trusted. Purely for experience.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Tue 21-May-13 17:19:37


Yes. I think that's a good theory

waddlecakes Tue 21-May-13 17:23:24

Lemon, that thought had occured to me alright...because although I really liked her and got on with her, if the roles were reversed I would never have shared the dream thing (which by the way was pretty blatant to interpret, making me question how true it was) and I also wouldn't have shared the having kissed once or twice thing. I might after a few months of friendship, if a friendship were to develop, but not on a first meeting...

waddlecakes Tue 21-May-13 17:24:48

And by the way I'm a bit surprised by all the ''this is too intense/twilight/etc'' stuff. Sorry it isn't just about a guy and a girl sharing an ice cream in the park, I was just trying to explain as best as I could.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Tue 21-May-13 17:29:21


Forgive me if this sounds patronising, but I think those comments (mine included) stem from memories of a time (I'm middle aged) when this kind of intensity was very exciting. When I look back I think that things that seemed exciting were a bit to much like hard work. People that seemed deep and artistic and interesting were often a bit unhappy and messed up, and didn't make me feel happy or secure.

LemonPeculiarJones Tue 21-May-13 17:33:15

Don't be daft OP. You explained it very well.

Intense artistic people and relationships are really seductive. I don't think anyone means to be dismissive. I certainly didn't - I've been there grin

But as I say I've had my fair share of that kind of drama, and it does all amount to experience rather than anything lasting or truly 'deep' in my opinion.

The alternative isn't boring/all sweetness and light.

And btw you shouldn't be feeling dull in comparison to these tortured souls. It's a way of being that is not the same as being an engaged, vital, interesting, exciting person. It can overlap, sure, but it isn't the only way to be interesting.

OHforDUCKScake Tue 21-May-13 17:34:20

Never, ever share anything with her again apart from pleasantries, she cannot be trusted. She wants to be involved in every way, and she is so far succeeding.

Sounds like it'll all end in tears.

scarletforya Tue 21-May-13 17:35:10

She schmoozed you OP. You're being manipulated. He's probably hoping for a threesome. Sorry to be blunt but that's what I see here.

WorraLiberty Tue 21-May-13 17:35:50

She sounds a bit stalkerish in a way

And it was a dead give away when she said she expected to feel jealous

Why would she feel that if she's just a friend?

StealthOfficialCrispTester Tue 21-May-13 17:36:04

Well to be fair you seemed to imply self harm was interesting. seems a little immature to me

waddlecakes Tue 21-May-13 17:36:48

seriously DUCK you think its that bad?! I have to say thanks so far to Jamie and Lemon, at the back of my mind I have had those thoughts...

OHforDUCKScake Tue 21-May-13 17:40:32

She told you about the dream and the kisses for a reason. Any innocent person wouldnt dream about telling a friends gf that they are meeting for the very first time.

She charmed you. And for good reason. You told her private things.

How much of your relationship with him did you discuss?

waddlecakes Tue 21-May-13 17:41:49

:-/ I think I may have told her too much...

OHforDUCKScake Tue 21-May-13 17:41:51

Good point Worra. I have best friends who are male, it wouldnt even enter my brain to be jealous of a new relationship.

OHforDUCKScake Tue 21-May-13 17:42:25

Oh dear Wadds, how much? A lot about your relationship with him?

waddlecakes Tue 21-May-13 17:42:41

I'm supposed to be seeing him this evening, and she will possibly also be there...

WorraLiberty Tue 21-May-13 17:43:47

I'm not normally this suspicious but I'm wondering if she's a friend with benefits?

Maybe that's why she seems to be checking out possible competition, to see how serious it is?

SgtTJCalhoun Tue 21-May-13 17:43:50

My smiley and chatty and confide about NOTHING.

waddlecakes Tue 21-May-13 17:45:48

Hehe, ''wadds'' :-). I suppose actually I didn't say anything too useful to her. The most borderline thing I said was when I said something along the lines of...''...but things are quite a bit up in the air, nothing is ever certain, and especially with everything he's dealing with, plus there's the thing of me maybe wanting to move away at some point...''. But the stuff he's dealing with she knows about, and plus he also knows I might want to move somewhere new at some point, so there's nothing there really that can be 'used against' me.

waddlecakes Tue 21-May-13 17:46:33

Worra the thing is that I'm not sure he would have wanted to introduce us if it was a friends with benefits thing...

WorraLiberty Tue 21-May-13 17:48:13

But after 7-8 months, how could he keep getting away with not introducing you?

He could have told her to keep it zipped about whatever relationship they might have?

waddlecakes Tue 21-May-13 17:49:13

Because (sorry, big part missing from original OP) she doesnt live here anymore. She lives in a faraway city and has done for the past year. So she was only back for a visit - he could have not bothered at all.

OHforDUCKScake Tue 21-May-13 17:51:16

Good that you didnt discuss your relationship with her, i bet thats what she wanted the most.

Im not really sure what the best thing to do is. I mean, it seems extreme to run to the hills. But Id hate to feel like I was having a 3 person relationship.

OHforDUCKScake Tue 21-May-13 17:51:39

Oh thats good then!

ENormaSnob Tue 21-May-13 17:57:01

She sounds a big single white female to me.

I wouldn't trust her at all.

There was something unsettling you enough that made you post for advice on here. Listen to that little inner voice more.

And without wanting to sound too ancient, try not to get too hammered when you meet them. Aloof, friendly and in control.

From hard experience, the less drama there is about a fella the better boyfriend he makes. Perhaps have some confidence that this sexy musician with his "issues" and very close friend might not be so ideal afterall ?? Just something to think about, not an instruction as he sounds just the type I'd have gone for ..... !

JamieandtheMagicTorch Tue 21-May-13 18:04:37

Not to get all psychological on your ass, but I wonder if this is as much about your DP as it is about her

JamieandtheMagicTorch Tue 21-May-13 18:05:15

"From hard experience, the less drama there is about a fella the better boyfriend he makes"


waddlecakes Tue 21-May-13 18:12:51

''Not to get all psychological on your ass, but I wonder if this is as much about your DP as it is about her'' what do you mean Jamie?

JamieandtheMagicTorch Tue 21-May-13 18:13:31

I mean the insecurity

waddlecakes Tue 21-May-13 18:17:40

Ah....yes, most probably!

TheSecondComing Tue 21-May-13 18:18:15

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MoodyDidIt Tue 21-May-13 18:22:36

It reminds me of some of the dramas of late teenage/early twenties. Fun, intense, kind of novelistic and romantic, tortured souls and deep's amazing fun but not to be trusted. Purely for experience.

exactly what i thought.... how old are you all?

HoneyandRum Tue 21-May-13 18:41:05

OP my point of view - you can take whatever you want from it - is that it is ALWAYS a Red Flag when someone who you HAVE JUST MET overshares with you in this way. Forget your relationship for a mo, as other posters have already mentioned this women is already overstepping many, many boundaries with you. It appears you are letting her because you are charmed and thrilled to be taken into her confidence. Surely this must make you special, you had such a deep connection etc. etc etc.

Well I will probably get flamed for this; but her behavior is classic for someone with a Personality Disorder (look up what that means if you need to). Her cutting is also clear evidence that she is psychologically vulnerable. I would say run, don't walk way from any more intimacy with her, because almost guaranteed it's going to get very messy and if possible she will throw you under the bus as soon as possible.

KatyTheCleaningLady Tue 21-May-13 18:46:53

This girl sounds dodgy. Charming, intense, and no sense of boundaries... I smell a personality disorder.

KatyTheCleaningLady Tue 21-May-13 18:50:44

Or, what Honeysaid!

Borderline Personality springs to my utterly untrained mind. Big on drama, and prone to violent behaviour / dramatics if not getting what they want. Could explain the wrists.

musickeepsmesane Tue 21-May-13 18:53:55

I have a very close male friend and if he introduced me to his girlfriend I would be very happy for him. It is not normal for friends to feel jealous of new partners. Yes, suss them out, hope they are nice, hope it is a great relationship.

She sounds needy and weird. Manipulative is bang on.

Sounds to me like now he is off limits, she wantshim. Wouldn't be the first time!

Ultimately, I guess it all hinges on how much you trust your bloke.

alexa0304 Tue 21-May-13 19:00:50

I would stay friendly if and when you see her again - don't fuel her craziness by being off - but as others have said, don't give anything away. I don't just mean personal secrets, I mean emotionally, don't get caught up in the charm again.

I think offering a medical diagnosis is taking it a bit far, to be honest it sounded to me as though you'd both had an E!

I used to like blokes like that - they are nothing but trouble. Ah, hindsight.

needasilverlining Tue 21-May-13 19:09:40

OP, this sounds like the artistic tortured soul (or pretentious twunt, as I later realised) I dated at 20 (many many years ago) and his BF.

She expected to feel jealous of me, too. She engineered playfights and left hickies on him.

She made a point of telling me, when I was shitscared about an unplanned pregnancy, that she envied me. Not JUST because it was his, but...

I hated her and wasn't mature enough to trust my feeling that this crossed the line. They're together now, BTW.

That isn't the important bit (is 15 years since I gave a flying shite about either of them) - the important thing is how HE reacted. He pretended to reassure me but deep down he was LOVING it.

If you told your DP about this and said you were uncomfortable, how do you think he'd react?

HoneyandRum Tue 21-May-13 19:10:49

Katy Borderline also jumped out at me too, only because I was in a "friendship" with a Borderline a few years ago. In fact I think she may have been my third! That's when I finally saw a pattern (after I was finally told by a more enlightened friend about PDs). The first sign is they are incredibly charming and you feel extremely flattered they focus their entire attention on you in this way and then bare their soul (usually on the first meeting, DEFINITELY by the second). Eventually after much confusion you realise the friendship is a one-way street and your role is actually as audience and Narcissistic Supply (the need a narcissist has to be validated and noticed - even if due to negative behavior, hence the drama and violence).

Poor woman, it's obviously inappropriate to be diagnosing anyone. I would just say please read up on personality disorders. Be very careful to maintain your boundaries because she doesn't have any and will invade yours (getting deeply involved in your relationship when you met five mines ago -classic). She also may find it almost impossible to change her behavior so do not take on any kind of rescuer role.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Tue 21-May-13 19:11:56

me three

alexa0304 Tue 21-May-13 19:23:10

I'm slightly disturbed about the way this thread is going. This woman is clearly not one you particularly want to be friends with, regardless of any mental health issues she may or may not have. Personality disorders are notoriously difficult to diagnose even for experts, many of whom refuse to use the label. Just sayin'

candyandyoga Tue 21-May-13 19:26:53

Sounds like you are about 15! Seriously, you just met her and disappeared with her for hours and told her loads of stuff. How old are you?!

fabergeegg Tue 21-May-13 21:14:18

Nothing cool or fun about depression/immature relationships/self harm. If you new man finds it so, he's a fool and no great loss. You're being very, very unreasonable.

Mia4 Tue 21-May-13 22:16:22

Sounds like she's a bit dramatic OP, at the very least her choice of words and the timing would lead be to believe she was trying to gain attention and big herself up by making me feel insecure. To be honest you do tend to judge by friends and since your relationship is so new it shouldn't be in the shit already- you are meant to get the honeymooning period, not struggle from the start.

FrenchRuby Tue 21-May-13 22:26:26

I don't know why but this reminded me of Lila from Dexter...
Anyway, she sounds a but weird :/

Alisvolatpropiis Wed 22-May-13 18:42:38

She sounds way too intense. But if she lives in a different city,what's the problem?

The scars on her wrists might be old,probably are as they are scars, she may have been depressed in the past. Nice to see all the mental health issue bashing though. Really nice.

HoneyandRum Wed 22-May-13 23:28:40

Personality Disorders are not about mental health, they are as they say a disorder of the personality. It is not "bashing" to have people be aware that Personality Disorders exist and they can be extremely destructive not just for the person with a PD but people around them. The classic symptom of a majority of those with a PD is a long history of an inability to maintain any kind of relationship. A PD is not temporary and is fundamentally how someone operates in the world. I have plenty of compassion for people suffering with mental health problems but they are not the only ones deserving compassion. Families, friends and co-workers can also suffer tremendously when interacting with someone with a PD - it is a two-way street. The frequent experience is that the individual with the PD has everyone around them walking of eggshells and is ready to blame others for their problems while refusing to accept responsibility for their behavior. Their behavior can have people around them questioning their own mental health because it can be so challenging attempting to maintain a relationship with a BD especially.

Alisvolatpropiis Wed 22-May-13 23:33:45

I agree but I think it's a bit much to have diagnosed this woman as having BD on the basis of her being 1) a bit inappropriate after what sounds like hours of drinking 2) scarred wrists.

I smell not one, but two girl-crushes. I agree about schmoozing you.

KatyTheCleaningLady Wed 22-May-13 23:44:31

I didn't diagnose anybody. I said that the lady sounded like someone with a plummy, and bpd came to mind.

I have a friend with scars on her wrists. She's a lovely, intelligent, interesting person. Self harming is not an indication of a personality disorder, but the other behaviour described by the op does, in my experience.

I have lots of sympathy for people with mental health problems, but my experience with people with personality disorders means that I am wary of them.

KatyTheCleaningLady Wed 22-May-13 23:45:10


Personality disorder.

MoominsYonisAreScary Wed 22-May-13 23:56:19

Funnily I was just thinking she sounds like someone I met years ago who had BPD, I'm not saying this women has but I'd put some boundaries in place.

And everything honey has said, although my best friend has a pd and yes it has been challenging in the past but she is also always been a fantastic friend when well, especially now she is older and has more insight into her pd and behaviour.

How old is this women?

Lioninthesun Thu 23-May-13 00:02:46

Sounds like if he wanted her, he could have had her. He chose you instead.

HoneyandRum Thu 23-May-13 00:04:46

Who knows what is up with this young woman. All I would say to the OP is that by quickly managing to remove the OP from her man and his other friends for hours she has successfully made the encounter all about her - not the OP and not her man.

Almost any normal, healthy relationship does not begin with this level of intensity so I would just say be aware, hold back and ask yourself OP why you are reacting to her this way and why she has made you the focus of her attention in a way that is highly unusual.

DonDrapersAltrEgoBigglesDraper Thu 23-May-13 06:38:02

I'm good friends with a woman friend (WF) of DH's, who he had a very brief thing with well before we got together. His friend and I became great friends separately from him. But my scenario and your scenario could not be more different.

- DH told me all about it himself before we met, so as for there to be no surprised or reason for distrust or questions.

- WF and I hit it off immediately, but became friends over time

- In spite of countless nights out (and even a holiday together) we have never discussed DH or our respective intimacies with him ever. Because, you know, that's private, and <grim> why would we?

- WF (and DH! But surely that goes without saying) has never given me a single reason to feel threatened, sidelined, or paranoid.

- 10 years later, I still class her as a good, trustworthy friend and lovely person, and always will.

Spot the differences?

waddlecakes Thu 23-May-13 16:38:29

Thought I'd give you an update on the other night.

I agreed to meet him at this music thing at 9. So I went with a mate, we arrived at the place on time and I ended up seeing loads of people I knew there, which was great. I didn't see the time pass, I was sitting at a table with all of my mates when I looked up and saw Her there. She gave me this massive smile and asked if she could sit with us, I said sure, carried on my conversation with my mates, and after literally less than a minute, she saw all of my man's mates (who I know and get on with as well). As soon as she saw them she jumped up and went to sit with them. They all came over and said hi to me, and then we went back to me sitting and chatting with my bunch, and them over at their own table (man still not here).

At 10 I get a call from Him - his voice is dead, he says he's not feeling great (depression) and he won't be coming out tonight. Fair enough. This isn't unusual for him. Another hour goes by and I see that his mates and the Girl are getting ready to go, so I move over to have a last smoke with them before they go. So I'm chatting away with the girl (but much cooler than the first time) and she drops in: ''....yeah, because I was around [my man]'s this afternoon''. There was a bit of a silence because I didn't really know what I was meant to say to that. The conversation sort of tailed off and she said ''Hey, it's my birthday on Friday and I really want you to come along, we're going to have a few drinks''. I said she should take my number and she said she already had it(???).

Afterwards without me saying anything two of my mates came right out and asked me who that ''really fake'' girl was (no idea how they got that off her when I can't).

I haven't heard from the man since, now I'm really come she got to ''drop in'' on him when he';s too depressed to come out to see me.... urgggh.

fromparistoberlin Thu 23-May-13 16:50:36

shes a twat

(a) telling you she might feel jealous
(b) telling you she kissed him once
(c) telling you she had a dream about him

in fact, I'll upgrade her to a fucked up cxxt


Lioninthesun Thu 23-May-13 16:55:04

OK she really is a wind up merchant. Or she may, if we are going to take what she says as true, be trying to tell you something...
I think it sounds as though you are intrinsically unsure of HIM, and think you need to have a little light hearted chat. Esp as she was over there and he didn't mention it. Try not to let her get under your skin, but at the same time don't ignore warning lights if they are flashing.

waddlecakes Thu 23-May-13 16:55:55

paris to berlin, I know but as you'll see from my post just above yours, my man now appears to be depressed and while that is definitely not unusual from him, he's seen her very recently and is not communicating with me. He doesn't have any time for bitchiness though, so I don't see how she could have ''said'' anything about me, especially not seeing as she seemingly got my number off him and wants to invite me to her birthday (?). Don't see how she could do that without looking manipulative/hypocritical to him....

waddlecakes Thu 23-May-13 16:57:41

Lion, unless she just innocently mentioned having seen him the other afternoon as a bonding thing, you know seeing as he's the person who ''connects'' us (?).

EldritchCleavage Thu 23-May-13 17:04:31

Is this a 'Keep your friends close and your enemies closer' scenario from her, do you think? And if she sees you as an enemy when you've only met twice, it can only be due to the fact you are in a relationship with her friend (or more than friend).

I think she is definitely trying to make you feel very insecure here. So on that basis alone she is not someone who is going to be a real friend. Add your instinct and the fact your friends immediately spotted her as someone fake, and she sounds like a woman to avoid.

The more difficult issue is where your boyfriend is with all this, is he involved with her in some more than platonic-ordinary-friendship way? Don't know. All I can say is, please don't let either or both of them mess you about. If you ever get the feeling that's what they're doing, bail and leave them to it.

Loulybelle Thu 23-May-13 17:04:44

Errrrr....shes a twat, and obviously wants him, shes got a game going on, she sounds as fake as Katie Prices tits.

MalcolmTuckersMum Thu 23-May-13 17:12:36

What honey said up thread - someone over shares too soon (ridiculously too soon in this case) it is ALWAYS a huge red flag with bells on. And the bells are decorated with red flags. I can't see this ending well.

XiCi Thu 23-May-13 18:42:20

I agree with alexa upthread in that it sounds like you had both taken something and then overshared.

Also agree with others who have said that someone who confides in this way immediately is usually someone with either an agenda or problems and is best avoided

Your relationship sounds incredibly hard work for a very new relationship. It really shouldn't be that hard. Can you see yourself putting up with this sort of shit for 5 years, 10 years?

You sound like a lovely trusting person who is being taken for a bit of a ride by these two. Are you very young? And what happened to her living in a faraway city? She seems to be around a lot and encroaching on your life. I would be very cautious around her

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