to think the teacher shouldn't have called DN a bloody stupid twat?

(258 Posts)
wetspringday Sat 18-May-13 22:31:50

DN was working on a compter yesterday and leaned back in his chair (shouldn't have done this) but he knocked over a cup of coffee that went over coursework. The teacher yelled at DN and called him a bloody stupid twat.

DN wasn't bothered and seemed to find it quite funny but I think I'd probably have to say something to the teacher concerned along the lines of it not being acceptable. DN is in Year 10 by the way (15.)

AIBU?

squeakytoy Sat 18-May-13 22:33:43

At 15 I cant see a problem with it... although is he sure that the teacher said twat and not twit..

persimmon Sat 18-May-13 22:33:56

Twat? Really? Are you just getting DN's version?

Euphemia Sat 18-May-13 22:34:00

If DN's not bothered I would leave it at that.

Yes the language was inappropriate, but what do you hope to gain?

noblegiraffe Sat 18-May-13 22:34:48

Of course it's not acceptable but teachers are human and your DS had just spilled coffee on coursework, which is a major problem. So maybe cut him a break?

HollyBerryBush Sat 18-May-13 22:35:42

Only he knows the relationship between him and his teacher. He isn't offended, so don't be offended on his behalf

McNewPants2013 Sat 18-May-13 22:35:45

Why was there coffee in the classroom any way.

everlong Sat 18-May-13 22:36:33

Yanbu.

Awful thing to say.

I thought twat was about equal to cunt in terms of rudeness. I'm surprised the responses here are so chilled out about it.

squeakytoy Sat 18-May-13 22:40:20

twat is nowhere near as much a swearword as cunt.. certainly not in any area I have lived in within the UK..

Branleuse Sat 18-May-13 22:42:43

I think him leaning back on his chair and ruining someones coursework by carelessness is more of an issue than whether he got called a twat for it

everlong Sat 18-May-13 22:42:50

Twat from a teacher to a pupil is dire.
I would say something.

wetspringday Sat 18-May-13 22:46:26

It was definitely 'twat'; his mates overheard it and were grinningly shocked. I can see how the teacher was frustrated although I think it was a bit daft to have coffee and coursework next to each other. I wasn't thinking my brother should put in a big huge complaint but mention to the teacher that it wasn't acceptable even though it was daft of DN to be tipping back on his chair.

Mumof3men Sat 18-May-13 22:46:46

why was there coffee in the classroom/ict suite?

isitsnowingyet Sat 18-May-13 22:47:05

It all sounds a bit bonkers to me. Why did the teacher have a coffee or was it the DN's coffee hmm? I was informed only recently that twat meant cunt - charming I'm sure. I don't think I'd be over the moon about a teacher who spoke like that. We're all human, but I don't call my kids 'twats' at any time (well, not to their faces )

IncrediblePhatTheInnkeepersCat Sat 18-May-13 22:48:11

While I don't condone calling a pupil a twat (Akiss I'd put twat on the same parallel as prick on the rudeness scale), I'm astounded that he thought it was funny that he ruined another student's piece of coursework! Or was it worse and multiple pieces of coursework in a pile?

MalcolmTuckersMum Sat 18-May-13 22:48:52

This is not an issue. It just isn't.

wetspringday Sat 18-May-13 22:49:01

It wasn't an ICT suite, it's an ordinary classroom with four or five computers at the back one of which DN was working on when he leaned back on his chair, knocking into a desk which had a cup of coffee (belonging to the teacher) on it along with the coursework, which was how it got spilled.

Salmotrutta Sat 18-May-13 22:49:21

Twat is an absolute no-no.

Why should your DN (nephew?) not have leaned back?

Why would the teacher be allowed a cup of coffee in the classroom?

That's totally frowned upon in any school I've ever been in!

ravenAK Sat 18-May-13 22:50:01

Unusual for coursework a) to exist & b) to be done in a computer room (& in which case, just print it out again, surely?).

Having said that, I've never called a year 10 a twat, despite many years of potential provocation.

I asked a year 11 the other day whether he was pratting about because 'you just don't give a shit about your GCSE? Because frankly, if that's how you feel, just leave my classroom now.'

The room went very quiet. Miscreant in question muttered 'No miss. I'm really sorry.' & set about picking up the bits of paper he'd been chucking about.

It's really not language which is habitually used by teachers towards students - I very deliberately did so because we're in the last few vital lessons & I knew it would shock.

Having said that, not really your place to complain on his behalf.

wetspringday Sat 18-May-13 22:50:10

I don't think he found it funny he'd spilled the coffee to be fair, but he and his mates found it funny that the teacher has Used A Bad Word. They're 15; they're a bit gormless but harmless enough grin

Salmotrutta Sat 18-May-13 22:50:54

The teacher was the twat IMHO.

wetspringday Sat 18-May-13 22:52:11

Raven - you see, I'm a teacher myself and while I can sort of understand the language slipping out I'd NEVER use it deliberately. I would be annoyed at that (sorry.)

It wasn't the Year 10 kids' coursework. It was work from another year (sixth form perhaps?) - think from the sounds of things the teacher was going to mark it with a cup of coffee while the kids got on with work on the computers.

ravenAK Sat 18-May-13 22:53:02

ah, cross posted. Well, in that case, I'd be mopping up & cursing myself for leaving an unlidded coffee near important paperwork. I'd be guaranteed to spill it myself, without adding klutzy teenage boys into the mix!

Swearing definitely not appropriate, but hey, we're human. No-one actually hurt, & student on receiving end not offended. No real harm done.

Salmotrutta Sat 18-May-13 22:54:12

I relate to raven - I once told a pupil they were talking crap. I intended it to shock.

And it did.

HollyBerryBush Sat 18-May-13 22:55:34

Unusual for coursework a) to exist & b) to be done in a computer room (& in which case, just print it out again, surely?).

Unless its an ICT based subject, including OCR nationals which are all coursework, as are BTECs, and most people call CAUs coursework for ease

ProphetOfDoom Sat 18-May-13 22:56:07

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

wetspringday Sat 18-May-13 22:56:07

Crap is a lot milder than shit though - or is that just in this neck of the woods?

That said, as a general rule of thumb I don't think it's advisable to say something to the pupils you wouldn't have them say to you (although I am guilty of sometimes saying 'shut up' - tends to be to the class rather than an individual though.)

wetspringday Sat 18-May-13 22:57:37

yeah, I wouldn't (if it was my son) have complained to the school but rather have said to the teacher that while I appreciated that in all probability the child was a bloody stupid twat grin would prefer it if such language wasn't used to describe him in his presence!

IncrediblePhatTheInnkeepersCat Sat 18-May-13 22:58:20

Thanks for clarifying smile. I'm a secondary teacher and love working with teenagers, but would have been furious over coursework destruction that was so avoidable.

I sympathise with the teacher's emotions, but they were out of order to use that language to a pupil in that context.

For those questioning why the teacher had a coffee: I (and all my colleagues) have tea and coffee in the classroom. I spend breaks and lunches rushing around like a blue-arsed fly and don't have time to leisurely sit in the staffroom during breaks. Generally I can be trusted not to spill it and it is invariably cold by the time I get to have a sip. Students are allowed water bottles, sixth formers and teachers are allowed hot drinks.

defineme Sat 18-May-13 23:00:52

The teacher was stressed-it's that time of year.Coursework is priceless. They probably needed cup of coffee to stay awake because it's that time of year and I'm guessing most posters are allowed a cup of coffee at work..
Your dn shouldn't have been leaning back. A 'bit gormless' with his aunt probably means irritating twat with friends in class.

Twat is not the same as cunt -just as willy is not the same as cock.

It's none of your business and he's 15-more than old enough to cope with that and more than old enough to be focused rather than gormless.

wetspringday Sat 18-May-13 23:01:09

Incredible, I've just asked DN and he has assured me the coursework was salvaged "it might have had a bit of a mark on it though," he added grin I do pity the teacher - poor sod thought he would finally get a hot drink and some marking and then DN decides to sit back in his chair <eye roll>

ThistleVille Sat 18-May-13 23:01:26

Sorry, just not acceptable.

Salmotrutta Sat 18-May-13 23:01:29

If I had a pound for every time I have said "Shut up"...

blush

In my defence - I was told to "F**k Off" or verbally abused beforeI said "Shut Up"...

wetspringday Sat 18-May-13 23:02:37

'Gormless' was intended with affection rather than as a derogatory comment, defineme. He's a pretty nice lad and on course to do well and to be fair if leaning back in his chair is about the length of his crimes in 4 years at secondary school I don't think he's on course for a deliquent future.

Salmotrutta Sat 18-May-13 23:05:06

Those saying coffee is allowed in your classroom...

Where do you work?!

Never been sanctioned in any school I've ever worked in!

HollyBerryBush Sat 18-May-13 23:06:38

Every class room has a kettle in where I work - on account of no bugger having time for breaks or lunch

ravenAK Sat 18-May-13 23:08:25

I have coffee in my classroom.

Officially, we are supposed to use lidded mugs, for H&S reasons. The Head fully recognises that no-one ever has time to neck a coffee at break!

In practice, I use an ordinary mug because I'm awkward like that & don't like it rubber flavoured. If it got spilled I'd acknowledge that I was the twat for leaving it somewhere knockable, though.

IncrediblePhatTheInnkeepersCat Sat 18-May-13 23:10:53

Just a state secondary Salmo.

I've been in 4 schools (3 training placements). 2 didn't allow tea/coffee and the other 2 did. I couldn't make it through a triple period without tea!

Hulababy Sat 18-May-13 23:11:25

I am in an infant school and though hot drinks are not encouraged we do have lidded cups which we can use in classrooms.

wetspringday Sat 18-May-13 23:12:05

Triple period? <shudder> how long is that? I think I'd need GIN, never mind tea grin

ravenAK Sat 18-May-13 23:18:14

Anyway, thinking about this one, I wouldn't be offended by the sweariness so much as by the use of name-calling.

I'm OK with asking a student if he gives a shit, but not with calling him a little shit, iyswim.

Although I do generally refrain from all swearing in the classroom -I think we can all agree that it isn't appropriate.

With the caveat that, in the last few lessons with year 11, I'll say anything that'll get them to sit up, pay f-ing attention, & hopefully get a few extra marks!

Startail Sat 18-May-13 23:19:32

Oh for fucking, cunting, twats sake lighten up.
Teachers are believe it or not human, the world isn't going to end if they respond in a perfectly normal way to something that is going to cause them stress, especially at this time of year.

I doubt my DD would be in the least offended, just sorry for being a twat.

IncrediblePhatTheInnkeepersCat Sat 18-May-13 23:20:14

A triple period is 2.5 hours. Just about manageable for sixth form, but due to a timetabling error last year, I ended up with year 8 for a triple period. Plus we were told we couldn't give them a five minute break, or let them out for the toilet! (Needless to say that I ignored the last directive).

A lovely colleague brought tea to our classrooms during this session (and sometimes chocolate too). Lifesaver!

Picturepuncture Sat 18-May-13 23:32:02

2.5 hours!! Blimey. With year 8? That's inhumane..

We are allowed tea/coffee in classrooms and most staff choose to use a judicious amount of swearing to shock/ramn a point home (generally with 15+!). That is after all the function of swearing in any language.

I wouldn't use the 'bloody stupid twat' approach however. It's unfortunate that this teacher did, however, no harm done. Also what would having a quiet word with the teacher achieve? Either he knows he shouldn't have said it and is hoping he doesn't get flak for it (won't do it again) or he thinks it's perfectly fine and will think you are also a twat for complaining. It's loose loose for you.

guidingstar Sat 18-May-13 23:34:50

Depending on where you are in the UK depends on how bad you think the word twat is. I grew up thinking nothing of the word twat, however now live in an area of the UK where it is seem as a really bad word.

The things that worry me is why did the teacher have a liquid in a classroom? And why did they still have course work on there desk, SQA, AQA and exdell have all requested there sample by now!

HollyBerryBush Sat 18-May-13 23:38:17

* SQA, AQA and exdell have all requested there sample by now!*

No they haven't, the marks had to be in by the 15th, the moderators are still requesting sample lists.

Again, coursework is not exclusive to GCSEs , it applies to BTEC and OCR nationals too and probably other vocational stuff

Y10 will also be doing coursework.

IncrediblePhatTheInnkeepersCat Sat 18-May-13 23:39:15

It was torturous, for them and me! (Worried I've outed myself now, as surely no other school in the history of timetabling has ever thought that this would be a good idea).

Sorry for derailing the thread a bit, OP!

Picturepuncture Sat 18-May-13 23:39:54

The things that worry me is why did the teacher have a liquid in a classroom?

Gosh how awful. Drinking a hot drink around 15 year olds. I mean no responsible parent would do that would they?

Salmotrutta Sat 18-May-13 23:40:35

Yes, well, any State Secondary I've ever worked in (admittedly Scotland, so maybe different) would expect you to be able to endure 2 hours without coffee.

Drinks of any kind in the classroom are frowned on up here. That's what break and lunchtime are for.

Salmotrutta Sat 18-May-13 23:45:06

I don't want to state my subject area - but any teacher bringing a cup of ^ anything^ into a classroom in my subject would be a massive * twat*.

Salmotrutta Sat 18-May-13 23:45:47

That would be anything and twat!

Loshad Sat 18-May-13 23:47:24

AQA have most definitely not requested all their samples by now [stresses]

IncrediblePhatTheInnkeepersCat Sat 18-May-13 23:48:03

Out of curiosity,Salmo, how long do you get for break and lunch? At my school, break is 20mins and lunch 35. By the time you factor in speaking to children after the lesson and setting up for the next, it doesn't leave enough time for necking a hot drink.

As I said, sixth formers can bring hot drinks in and sometimes year 11 do too.

Salmotrutta Sat 18-May-13 23:55:55

We get 20 minutes coffee break and 1 hour lunch Incredible.

Salmotrutta Sat 18-May-13 23:59:19

But I should also say we have 6 non-contact periods in 30 where we can drink coffee if we wish.

Whilst planning, reporting and doing development work etc.

IncrediblePhatTheInnkeepersCat Sun 19-May-13 00:06:16

We get similar amounts of non-contact time too.

What is the reasoning for your school(s) being anti hot drinks? I can understand h&s for some subjects, but not a blanket ban. I normally drink half my tea during student arrival/final set up, then the other (cold) half after the starter while the students are working, giving them a couple of minutes to get work down before I circulate. I don't walk and drink, so not at risk of spilling it on a student. I'm guessing it's an aesthetic reason?

Arisbottle Sun 19-May-13 00:17:24

I quite often have a cup of coffee in my classroom, I am either in there or my office from 7am until 6pm and other than to go on duty I don't leave. I also not stop working for a moment for those 11 hours- other than me make a coffee.

Arisbottle Sun 19-May-13 00:19:01

I walk and drink, so far I have not killed anyone.

I am assuming that we have drinks at home around our secondary aged children and they survive .

CouthyMow Sun 19-May-13 00:24:48

IncrediblePhat - blush If you were my Y8 teacher and had my class for a 2.5 he lesson, you'd have needed method by the end of it, bollicks to tea or coffee...!

(My top set were utter bastards in Y8, we saw it as the year after settling in, but before buckling down for SATS in Y9 back when they had them. We seriously were bastards. Our German teacher had us for a double lesson that year. He left teaching by the Easter.)

You deserve a fucking medal for teaching 30 12-13yo's for 2.5 hrs without locking one of them in the stationery cupboard...

CouthyMow Sun 19-May-13 00:28:36

OFGS. I HATE Autocorrect. He = hr. method = meths.

deleted203 Sun 19-May-13 00:34:56

I quite often drink coffee in my classroom whilst teaching. I get 15 mins at break - and rarely make it to the staffroom for anything other than about the last 3 mins. Just time to make a fast cup of coffee and head back for another double lesson with it. No one objects - many staff do similar.

Twat round here is considered slightly ruder that twit. Yes, I appreciate it means cunt (which is not a word I would ever use in RL - it is the one complete taboo, linguistically, as far as I am concerned). I probably wouldn't say to a pupil 'stop behaving like a twat' - but if it slipped out I wouldn't expect anyone to complain about it.

I did shout 'You idiot!' loudly at a Y11 boy in the heat of the moment, the other day. He had just pushed a pile of equipment sideways, despite being told not to, and something had fallen on the floor and smashed. And afterwards I found myself thinking, 'Is someone now going to come and tell me I shouldn't have called him an idiot? Even though he is?'

Teachers are human. We get kids shouting at us to 'Fuck off' and I have been called all the names under the sun at times. Yet let anything 'inappropriate' slip out from us whilst under stress - such as saying to a kid, 'You clearly don't give a shit about your exams' and you can find parents immediately complaining about it. Ridiculous, IMO.

DN isn't bothered. Neither is your DB by the sound of it. Why would you want to cause even more stress and grief to a teacher by making a complaint to the school?

Dominodonkey Sun 19-May-13 00:38:20

Agree with raven - I have sworn a bit recently- only to year 11 really. Not at anyone though. Am genuinely ashamed to say I must have sworn a few to many times as one of my lovely year 11 girls came up to me with an essay yesterday and said 'would you mind marking this miss- sort if its a bit shit... ' I didn't tell her off but said that would teach me for being a bad influence. In the case of the boy in the thread if twat did slip out I would probably apologise after if it had come out as a result of shock. The boy should not have been swinging on his chair.
And the couple of holier than thou people mentioning hot drinks. If I have a full day it would be between 8.30 and 1 without a hot drink as break is not long enough to make and drink one.

selsigfach Sun 19-May-13 00:42:08

I'm amazed that so many are taking issue with teachers having tea/coffee in the class room.

Bessie123 Sun 19-May-13 01:21:48

I am amazed that so many of you are unable to go 6 hours without a hot drink - loads of jobs keep you busy and leave no time to make and drink coffee, it's not the end of the world.

I am also shock at some of the appalling grammar and spelling from teachers on this thread. Not all of you, obv, but shouldn't you know, eg the difference between lose and loose, and there and their?

And God, a teenager leaning back in his chair isn't really being a stupid twat. Although a teacher leaving coffee where it can be knocked over coursework clearly is.

GoblinGranny Sun 19-May-13 01:28:23

Teacher shouldn't have coffee in a stupid place. I often have a coffee in class, and I ensure it's always in a safe place.
And no, if that was indeed the language used, then it is unacceptable.

deleted203 Sun 19-May-13 01:29:31

Lots of jobs keep you busy Bessie - but have you ever spent 6 hours projecting your voice to a classroom of 30 teenagers?

You can manage without a cup of coffee - why should you martyr yourself any further, though? Do you think anyone will give you brownie points for doing so? Or care?

GoblinGranny Sun 19-May-13 01:29:46

'I am amazed that so many of you are unable to go 6 hours without a hot drink - loads of jobs keep you busy and leave no time to make and drink coffee, it's not the end of the world. '

Loads of jobs don't have you talking, explaining and communicating most of the time in a dry environment.

GoblinGranny Sun 19-May-13 01:30:41

Xpost!
Oh, and the coffee might have been the teacher's lunch, it often is mine.

Bessie123 Sun 19-May-13 01:32:52

Hmm, I drink water, I guess that would be an option? You could keep it in a bottle, with a lid that does up, so it doesn't spill on paperwork.

deleted203 Sun 19-May-13 01:32:57

grin. And mine, Goblin. I am currently spending practically every lunchtime running revision classes for Y11 - and actually, I don't get paid for lunchtime.

Bessie123 Sun 19-May-13 01:34:40

You don't martyr yourselves by not drinking coffee but you do by not eating lunch?

GoblinGranny Sun 19-May-13 01:34:58

'Those saying coffee is allowed in your classroom...

Where do you work?!

Never been sanctioned in any school I've ever worked in!'

My guess is that you are a scientist, no food or drink in the lab?
I've worked in a lot of primary schools, hot drinks have always been OK but you have to use your common sense.

GoblinGranny Sun 19-May-13 01:36:57

Lunch is trickier to eat whilst working than coffee, no martyrdom, just saying why. I'm usually marking work, who'd find sticky gunk acceptable on their stuff? hmm

deleted203 Sun 19-May-13 01:37:13

Christ Almighty, Bessie! I'm guessing you don't teach? I can't imagine anyone thinking it a good 'option' for teachers to spend the entire day in a classroom, skipping all meals and hot drinks, but sipping from a water bottle to sustain their flagging spirits and morale.

Before going home to tackle 3 hours planning and marking.

And some people wonder why teachers feel unappreciated...

Bessie123 Sun 19-May-13 01:39:56

No, I don't teach. And I can't imagine I would give up my lunch break for a group of bored, disinterested teenagers, either. I would drink my coffee on the way to work and spend my lunch break stuffing my face in the staff room grin

musicposy Sun 19-May-13 01:41:36

I can't teach for more than 2 or 3 hours without my voice giving up if I don't have a drink. You are talking non stop and it does take its toll on your voice. A quiet job, 6 hours no hot drink, maybe. But try projecting your voice to a whole class day in, day out and it's a different matter.

As for spelling and grammar criticisms hmm. I often post from my tablet and it makes ridiculous mistakes, putting random apostrophes where they aren't needed and assuming a word is a different word. It's nigh on impossible to edit it so I just let it go half the time. This is meant to be my relaxation; I'm not in front of a class.

GoblinGranny Sun 19-May-13 01:41:58

It's only two hours take home marking if you mark through lunch...smile

GoblinGranny Sun 19-May-13 01:44:05

Missed the S&G comment.
In which case Bessie, I'd like you to know the difference between disinterested and uninterested please.
That's your target for this week.

Bessie123 Sun 19-May-13 01:46:54

Well, bored/not interested - much the same.

Disinterested - if they thought the revision applied to them and was relevant, they would do it themselves at home.

musicposy Sun 19-May-13 01:47:07

grin GoblinGranny

ravenAK Sun 19-May-13 01:49:27

Heh @ disinterested/uninterested!

deleted203 Sun 19-May-13 02:00:15

Just to cheer you up, ladies, you might like to know that my Ma had to take early retirement at about 57 because she developed a persistent, tickly cough. It became worse and she frequently coughed and coughed until she was red in the face and struggling for breath. She could not keep teaching.

Almost 20 years down the line this is still with her. It keeps her awake most nights and she says it drives her mad.

Diagnosis of doctors and specialists she has seen is that she has permanently damaged her vocal chords through teaching...

(Gives us all something to look forward to in our twilight years grin).

GoblinGranny Sun 19-May-13 02:03:49

That's not funny you know, I have exactly the same problem and am in my mid fifties after almost thirty years teaching sad
It also means that you are more prone to throat infections and 'orrible mucusy stuff.

rainbowslollipops Sun 19-May-13 06:03:25

My first ict teacher used to make snide comments about me to other pupils. I saw him recently, he came into work. He always used to say I'd fail at everything and be a bum that no one would employ. When he saw who I'm now working for he asked how I was, so I rolled out the nvq's I have and where I previously worked and how I got up to supervisor level. Safe to say that showed him. grin

Although your dn isn't fussed, different wording could have been used.

mirai Sun 19-May-13 06:08:31

When you've been talking for four hours you could really do with a nice hot drink!

pinkr Sun 19-May-13 08:00:56

Gosh we drink tea in class...I even make my seniors hot drink sometimes. when I was having morning sickness I had juice, fizz, grapes, crisps and had been known to take sweets off kids to get the awful taste out if my mouth....guess what? The kids didn't mind as they understood I was I'll and the senior team fully supported as they had popped in and I'd been a bit worried as a drink is fine but not food usually and the told me not to be silly!

disclaimer: i'm an English teacher so any stupid errors are due to my phone not my inability to spell!

SprinkleLiberally Sun 19-May-13 08:09:19

We would not be allowed a hot drink in normal lesson but if I spend my lunch forty minutes with exam classes I take a drink. Seems fair enough.

viewwitharoom Sun 19-May-13 08:32:26

Not the best choice of words, no but as the young person involved isn't concerned then it isn't an issue.
For those concerned about our hot drinks, shadow a teacher for the day then judge! Sorry but too many people think they can pass judgement on the working habits of others and teachers are so often a target for criticism!! Wanders off to complete her reports, plan assembly and complete IEPs before planning lessons and making Sunday lunch. Might have a cup of something hot too! Blows raspberry.

BoneyBackJefferson Sun 19-May-13 08:36:02

Salmotrutta

"But I should also say we have 6 non-contact periods in 30 where we can drink coffee if we wish."

Next year my first non-contact period is P1 on Friday.

frillyflower Sun 19-May-13 08:36:10

Why do you want to get your nephew's teacher into trouble? Personally I leave the schooling of my nieces and nephews to my siblings. I also think it would be a pretty mean thing to do.

everlong Sun 19-May-13 08:39:00

Frilly calling a kid at the school you teach at a twat is not on, sod all with getting him in trouble! He shouldn't have said it.

claraschu Sun 19-May-13 08:42:47

It's funny and the kids enjoyed it.

What possible harm can it do.

I would argue that: "You're stupid," is potentially hurtful, but "Bloody stupid twat" is over the top and amusing.

Picturepuncture Sun 19-May-13 08:52:07

I am also at some of the appalling grammar and spelling from teachers on this thread. Not all of you, obv, but shouldn't you know, eg the difference between lose and loose, and there and their?

Yes that was probably me. My spelling and grammar is terrible at 11pm at night. When writing quickly, on a tablet late at night, I make silly errors. Rest assured I don't make them at work.

Their- belonging to him or her.

There- a place of the over variety.

Lose- where is it?

Loose- I wish my trousers were.

Does any other profession get such judgement?

everlong Sun 19-May-13 08:52:33

Those who think its funny do you call your kids twats?

GoblinGranny Sun 19-May-13 08:53:11

No, I'd find the language unacceptable. My children both attended the local secondary, and college, and none of the teachers would use that sort of language to a student.

GoblinGranny Sun 19-May-13 08:55:29

That's a dreadful attitude, Picturepuncture. I suspect you are not dressed like a professional when you post from home either, and may even have a cup of tea to hand.
Shocking! grin

cory Sun 19-May-13 09:02:41

I would find the language unacceptable. But I would also expect my 15yo to understand that there is a lot of pressure on teachers and that in a moment of extreme stress unacceptable language may slip out. I do try to make it clear to my teens what life is like from the other side of the desk. I think that is also part of my job as a parent.

ImperialBlether Sun 19-May-13 09:14:02

It's hard for someone who isn't in school to understand the level of stress there is around coursework. On my course there must be about 150 documents for a set of coursework and some of it is handwritten so can't easily be reprinted. Even if you could reprint it, most students save some on the network drive, some on their home laptops, some on the computer's hard drive and then some on any number of memory sticks, most of which they've lost. And yes, of course we teach them how to back it up.

I think the child wasn't traumatised by the event, though the teacher probably was. Give that teacher a break and some suppot and tell your nephew to stop being an idiot.

MissAnnersley Sun 19-May-13 09:15:14

I think the language is unacceptable however I doubt I would be doing anything about it unless it was a constant stream from the teacher.

The tea/coffee thing is a bit strange. I'm with Salmo on this - there is absolutely no way they are allowed in classrooms when any children are there. Certainly not in any school I've taught in.

lecce Sun 19-May-13 09:16:47

Aside from the need to have a drink to keep the voice going, can I also add the need for caffine to stay awake? I teach f/t and have a nearly 4 yr old who rarely sleeps through. To enable me to see the dc early evening. I have got into the habit of getting up at 5 to be at work for 6.15. I NEED coffee throughout the day, though I usually only manage a couple of sips at the start of a lesson and then it goes cold. Pupils I teach make a joke of my obsession with it and, when my last tutor group left in Y11, they clubbed together and got me some naice coffee and a new mug <sobs>.

A few people have commented that leaning back isn't that bad. It really is, especiall if he lifted the chairs from the floor. IME, there are pupils who do this, and there are those who don't. Usually goes alongside other annoying behaviours and, over time, breaks the chairs.

The teacher shouldn't have said what he did but, if no one else is concerned, I don't see why you should be

MissAnnersley Sun 19-May-13 09:21:01

I have coffee at home and take a coffee into my room before 9. I have a coffee at 10.30 and another one at 12.15. I take water into my room in the afternoon in a bottle.

There is no need for coffee or tea in a classroom while there are pupils there.

OrlaKiely Sun 19-May-13 09:24:44

our crazy art teacher once called one of us a 'silly little arse' speedily corrected to 'silly little girl'

we all thought it was hilarious. she was batshit though

SuffolkNWhat Sun 19-May-13 09:24:54

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MissAnnersley Sun 19-May-13 09:33:10

I am a teacher. Drink water during lessons if required.

Euphemia Sun 19-May-13 09:35:41

Water is the best thing - no-one needs a hot drink in the classroom.

GoblinGranny Sun 19-May-13 09:37:59

What a diverse bunch we are. I need both caffeine and sugar to get me through the day. Perhaps it's time I retired.

MissAnnersley Sun 19-May-13 09:41:27

I have caffeine, and quite a lot of it during the day, out with the classroom.

Picturepuncture Sun 19-May-13 09:44:42

That's a dreadful attitude, Picturepuncture. I suspect you are not dressed like a professional when you post from home either, and may even have a cup of tea to hand. Shocking!

You know I wasn't, and I'd had a glass of wine. <whispers> and a cup of tea near my tablet!

Lol sounds funny, I came into this topic sledding the worst but seems your nephew didn't take offence from this. So no action required.

It's not about how you perceive people would or wouldn't get offended but how they actually feel about it.

Picturepuncture Sun 19-May-13 09:46:22

Water is the best thing - no-one needs a hot drink in the classroom.

No I don't need one, occasionally it's quite nice though. God forbid we enjoy ourselves at work. Can you explain why you think it's unacceptable?

IncrediblePhatTheInnkeepersCat Sun 19-May-13 09:49:50

Yy to caffeine.

Also, if I drank water instead, I'd be needing to wee much more. It's a delicate balance (especially in aforementioned triples). I need liquid to keep my throat lubricated and my head not pounding, but not enough that I'm crossing my legs for the last 30 mins.

If my school brought a ban in, I'd survive, but not be at my optimum.

Still no one has said why they find hot drinks horrifying in a regular secondary school classroom that isn't an ICT suite or a science lab.

HollyBerryBush Sun 19-May-13 09:52:17

>sigh<

All I can say is, any 15yo is in for a shock if s/he goes to college. DS1's tutor frequently called them 'wankers or tossers and effed and blinded in front of them too. He had a point grin Ah, thats AE for you, a large dollop of real world. They would have heard worse and been called a lot worse on a building site.

MissAnnersley Sun 19-May-13 09:54:29

Yes I can easily explain. When there are children in the classroom there shouldn't be hot drinks from a safety point of view and from a professional one.

If you want to 'enjoy' your work by having a coffee, have one before classes, at break and at lunchtime. Have two at lunchtime if you really feel the need.

What are the children doing while you're drinking coffee?

xylem8 Sun 19-May-13 09:55:23

I thought twat was about equal to cunt in terms of rudeness

Me too! It is totally unacceptable for a teacher to swear at, or even in front of pupils.If the DN just leaned back in his chair ,how did he knock over the coffeee unless it was in the teachers hand? In which case the teacher should be thanking his lucky stars that your DN wasn't scalded

MissAnnersley Sun 19-May-13 09:56:03

It's not horrifying, it's unnecessary and unprofessional.

IncrediblePhatTheInnkeepersCat Sun 19-May-13 09:58:24

I already explained upthread what my students do when I gulp down my tea.

I'm guessing it is the same as what your students are doing while you're drinking water.

MissAnnersley Sun 19-May-13 10:01:27

So when you are having an observation from SMT or ofsted are in you would be drinking tea or coffee during a lesson?

TheFallenMadonna Sun 19-May-13 10:02:52

Boneybackjefferson - how do you have your timetable already? shock

Twat is not acceptable. Coffee in the classroom also not acceptable. Coursework though is a massive, overwhelming source of stress, and I agree with the poster who said that a 15 yo called a twat is likely to be far less traumatised than a teacher with coffee stained coursework to send to the moderator.

MissAnnersley Sun 19-May-13 10:03:43

I take water into my room in a bottle. I rarely need it. A sip of water from a bottle is very different from sitting slurping down a hot drink.

Are the children allowed to drink tea and coffee or another 'enjoyable' drink? Mine aren't. They have a water bottle, like me.

GoblinGranny Sun 19-May-13 10:03:50

'What are the children doing while you're drinking coffee?'

Writing down the learning objective, underlining it, reading the success criteria and actually, you know, working independently.
How long do you think a mouthful of coffee takes to sip and swallow?

Nehru Sun 19-May-13 10:05:05

to OP

very unprofessional behaviour.

shouldnt have hot drinks in ICT room anyway.

ALso - anyone who makes kids write down learning objectives IS a bloody stupid twat

HollyBerryBush Sun 19-May-13 10:05:21

missannersley could you describe what you think drinking beverage is like? most teachers have a stone cold cup of it on their desk, that they probably grab a sip from, similar to swigging from a water bottle. It isn't a leisurely sit down with feet on desk, chomping a few hobnobs and reading the paper whilst pupils are ignored.

Arisbottle Sun 19-May-13 10:05:25

I am SMT.

I often make my smaller classes a hot drink while they work.

I do try and drink more water in th classroom FWIW, because I suspect it is better for me. But sometimes I need caffeine , it gets me through a 15 hour day.

GoblinGranny Sun 19-May-13 10:05:30

I'd have more of an issue with the teacher looking at coursework during a lesson TBH. Now that isn't appropriate.

GoblinGranny Sun 19-May-13 10:06:16

'ALso - anyone who makes kids write down learning objectives IS a bloody stupid twat'

School policy.

Arisbottle Sun 19-May-13 10:06:48

I do sometimes leisurely drink a coffee as my pupils work, if I had a hobnob I would dunk, can't get my feet on my desk - usually too many mugs on it. grin

Arisbottle Sun 19-May-13 10:07:40

Mine write down a shortened version of learning objectives which act as their title. Fairly standard I thought.

Nehru Sun 19-May-13 10:08:27

your school is a twat

as Ian gilbert says Learning objectives should be to sell the sizzle, not become a monotonous copying activity.
mine might be

: by the end of this lesson you will stun your family and friends by explaining the causes of xyz..

HollyBerryBush Sun 19-May-13 10:08:47

I've heard it all now - objections to coursework in lessons?

So exactly how are time controlled CAUs to be completed? How are vocational 100% coursework BTECs to be taught?

Nehru Sun 19-May-13 10:09:52

lol at holly berry

i might finish a coffee in the class. wouldnt LEAVE it to get one.

it is taken in at end of break, and its left to slowly go cold.

Arisbottle Sun 19-May-13 10:10:18

I don't see the harm if it is kept short and you ditch the title. I agree that writing the title and then writing out a series of learning objectives out in full would be pointless.

IncrediblePhatTheInnkeepersCat Sun 19-May-13 10:12:21

MissAnnersley, I don't think you have read the full thread. I've said twice now that sixth formers are allowed to bring in hot drinks and so are year 11 (but the year 11s rarely do).

I think you are equating drinking a cup of tea with sitting down and putting your feet up. I use it as you do water. A quick sip or gulp as needed, frequently cold.

You also have not satisfactorily explained why you think it is unprofessional. Surely if it was, it wouldn't vary from school to school depending on SMT. And yes, I have had sips from my tea during observations at appropriate points. No comment was made and hasn't stopped me achieving outstanding ratings, because funnily enough, the standards don't cover hot drinks. If I was swigging from a bottle of vodka, I could see your point.

livinginwonderland Sun 19-May-13 10:14:12

I'm really shocked at how many people are anti-hot drinks! These are 15 year olds, not 5 year olds. My school allowed hot drinks for teachers from year 4+, and once you got to 16, (so, year 11 + sixth form) the pupils were also allowed hot drinks from the vending machines.

My German teacher even had a kettle in his classroom with biscuits! In my A-level year, there were only 4 of us taking the class so we often did our class while drinking coffee and eating biscuits and occasionally cake

CouthyMow Sun 19-May-13 10:18:05

There is one teacher at DD's school that has nicknamed her 'chav'. Am I upset by it? Nope.

This teacher and my DD get along famously, he is the reason my DD stopped being anxious about attending school - because she knew there was the possibility of him joking with her.

He is a wonderful teacher, and knows just how to ease my DD's anxieties (she has LD's).

DD isn't bothered by it, in fact she positively revels in her nickname, and on non-uniform day, she asked me to help her dress head-to-toe in Burberry. The teacher nearly died of laughter!

They have a wonderful working relationship, and it has helped to bring my DD out of herself, as at Primary school, she barely spoke to anyone.

I wouldn't give two craps if the teacher had a hot drink. And the occasional slip of the tongue to say what this teacher did? Meh. By 15, they will be using worse, and hearing worse in the playground.

And anyway, if he was swinging on his chair at 15yo, then he WAS being a bit of a twat - my 9yo with SN's knows not to do it, so why doesn't a 15yo?!

MissAnnersley Sun 19-May-13 10:20:45

You have been drinking tea during observations? Good grief.

The reason that I think it is unprofessional is that it is an unnecessary distraction. Just that.

Tea and coffee are for breaks, that's why you have them.

livinginwonderland Sun 19-May-13 10:25:15

Why is tea/coffee any less professional than a bottle of water?

OneHandFlapping Sun 19-May-13 10:30:13

I can't even see why you're getting involved, OP. He's not your child, and he was a twat.

And I doubt it extended his vocabulary any, either. Teenage boys call each other this and worse all the time.

Ilovegeorgeclooney Sun 19-May-13 10:30:48

Often finish the tea/coffee from Break/Lunch. Yesterday, whilst spending the day with Year 11s revising Literature, actually ordered in pizza for us all and some of the pupils did a Costa run! Don't think I am unprofessional just short of time! Having said that bit worried about the 'pepperoni' aroma in my classroom tomorrow.

HeyLuciani Sun 19-May-13 10:32:21

This drinking in the classroom issue has reminded me of my A level English teacher - he used to drink vodka shock grin - back in the 80s, a bit different then. He was a great teacher and we all passed, think that's how he got away with it!

IncrediblePhatTheInnkeepersCat Sun 19-May-13 10:41:53

Only on MN is the issue of teachers having a hot drink in the classroom more contentious than a teacher calling a student a twat! grin

Flojobunny Sun 19-May-13 10:43:29

Cannot believe anyone would think swearing like that is acceptable. I would be shocked if my boss said it to me and think it very unprofessional, let alone a teacher to a child, even if they have heard much worse in the playground, it doesn't make it right. Shock tactics for a long-term bully maybe, but accidentally spilling some coffee, I would be complaining.

HollyBerryBush Sun 19-May-13 10:44:17

My sons latin teacher wears full morning garb , with monocle and looks like an undertaker. Barking, absolutely off his trolley - great teacher though

No idea if he drinks tea, coffee though grin

Blissx Sun 19-May-13 10:46:36

Incredible-what a wonderful way to sum up this thread! Thanks for making me laugh this morning before embarking on writing my PGCE students final review!!!

SelfRighteousPrissyPants Sun 19-May-13 10:50:43

Miss Annersley surely the Chalet School has monitors to bring the mistresses coffee and cigarettes? And anyone tilting chairs would be in serious trouble, though not called a bloody stupid twat obviously because that's slang wink

IncrediblePhatTheInnkeepersCat Sun 19-May-13 10:52:56

Happy to oblige, Blissx smile.

Good luck with the review writing. Maybe you need to include the advice: 'Before embarking on her journey as an NQT, X needs to fully understand her new school's policy on hot beverages to ensure that she does not bring the profession into disrepute.'

aufaniae Sun 19-May-13 10:56:41

"I thought twat was about equal to cunt in terms of rudeness"

Depends on what part of the country you cone from I think. Where I grew up (London) twat not much stronger than idiot - about on a par with crap.

But for some it's as strong as cunt.

I wonder if the teacher realises this? He may think it's not a particularly offensive word.

cory Sun 19-May-13 10:56:50

Tea and coffee are for breaks, that's why you have them."

Teachers have breaks? hmm

So when do they rush between classrooms, break up arguments in the corridor, comfort distraught pupils, answer queries about the course, provide advice, admonitions and reassurance?

I teach in HE which is supposedly a quieter, more rarified life, but I worked 10 hours on Thursday without anything that could reasonably be described as a break: every time I tried to put my feet up there was another knock on the door or another email that I had to answer at once because the next class was due to start in 10 minutes.

And for the record, I managed to deliver a whole 45 minute lecture on medieval literature with a cup of coffee in my hand. As every lecturer knows, a well delivered lecture depends on the appropriate pauses at the end of each paragraph; otherwise the audience won't take it in. And that is just about enough time to gulp a mouthful of cold coffee.

The reason it's coffee and not water is that I find water can irritate a tickly cough further; it doesn't have the right lubricating effect. Smoothies also good, but expensive.

ReluctantlyBeingYoniMassaged Sun 19-May-13 11:02:50

The teacher shouldn't have had a hot drink in the classroom.

Sadly, schools are rife with staff that belittle students. A well-regarded teacher at my school called a pupil pathetic in front of a class last week. Poor training.

cory Sun 19-May-13 11:05:27

MissAnnersley Sun 19-May-13 09:54:29
"Yes I can easily explain. When there are children in the classroom there shouldn't be hot drinks from a safety point of view and from a professional one."

These are children old enough to have a Saturday job. Dd's friend works in a hardware store surrounded by saws and screwdrivers and other dangerous bits of equipment which he has to demonstrate to customers. And for the record, he gives excellent advice.

At school they will have been using bunsen burners since age 11 and various types of potentially dangerous machinery for woodwork and metalwork. And of course they do cookery classes.

I for one would not thank my dc's teachers for treating teenagers like little children to be protected from the big dangerous world.

Otoh I have never sworn at a student (even ones that deserved it) and probably never would. And I have been a supply teacher in some pretty rough schools (in an earlier life).

simplesusan Sun 19-May-13 11:09:11

Your dn was at fault.

Next time he might over balance and bang his head on the floor. Will you be rushing in to blame the school then op?
He is old enough to know how to behave.

Swearing isn't good but there are far worse things he could have called him.

SantanaLopez Sun 19-May-13 11:15:08

YABU.

This thread is hilarious. No wonder our school leavers are useless!

Blissx Sun 19-May-13 11:16:33

Priceless, Icredible! [big grin] - I'll also write that should they should make sure they get their break and lunchtime even if there is an incident they need to deal with, pupil crying, pupils fighting, pupil asking for help, break duty to carry out etc. as that is when they should have their hot drink. Some MNetters said so!

cory Sun 19-May-13 11:18:14

Personally I would find it unprofessional to swear at work, whether in front of a student or in front of my boss. So I don't.

But the idea of regarding a boy who will be leaving home and making his own way in the world in 3 years time as someone who has to be protected from being in the same room as a hot drink- well, that does worry me.

(and there I was hoping dc would be able to save up for their tuition fees by waitressing)

ChimeForChange Sun 19-May-13 11:21:49

I'm a teacher and every school I've been in we're allowed coffee/tea in the classroom!

GoblinGranny Sun 19-May-13 11:25:00

'Why is tea/coffee any less professional than a bottle of water?'

Well, she says it's water...

IncrediblePhatTheInnkeepersCat Sun 19-May-13 11:29:54

That sounds perfect, Blissx.

Also, you raise a point about break duty. Should this also be subjected to the no hot drinks rule? Standing in a freezing mid-Jan playground is made a tiny bit more bearable by having a mug to warm your hands a little.

polkadotsrock Sun 19-May-13 11:30:56

My higher geography teacher had 'posh coffees' complete with all singing all dancing machines in his classroom. There were 6 of us in the class and we all had a great relationship with him. I could see how some parents might have found him inappropriate but he treated us like adults and we responded well to that. Though I'm not a coffee drinker and thought the room just reeked, didn't stop me from eating the biscuits. He often said worse things than twat, none of us batted an eyelid.

IncrediblePhatTheInnkeepersCat Sun 19-May-13 11:31:35

Goblin - grin

digerd Sun 19-May-13 11:34:07

Love that word "gormless"- haven't heard it for ages.

DN sounds like a very childish 15 year-old.
I leant back in my chair at home to reach something behind me and ended up on the floor with chair underneath me. I was stupid and didn't do that again.
Knocked the teacher's coffee all over his papers and DN laughed? That was very disrespectful and rude. What if it had been a computor at work? He'd have got more than being called a twat.

Mumof3men Sun 19-May-13 11:45:57

We also have parents who will tell us that if little Johnny doesn't do enough work that we are to keep them in at break or lunch to make them do it or that little Mary has a sniffle so isn't allowed to go out to play and must be looked after during break time and lunchtime.
I wonder if they ever think of the fact we then can't go for a break to get a drink/go for a wee as children can't be left unsupervised.

jacks365 Sun 19-May-13 12:37:15

No I don't think that was acceptable language from a teacher but I also don't think it needs complaining about either.

As a parent I appreciate the efforts teachers have made for additional revision sessions etc, yes I know she could revise at home but I couldn't answer questions if she had any.

Both dd2 &3 have hot drinks in classrooms too not just the teachers.

cory Sun 19-May-13 12:43:10

It is an important life skill to know the difference between:

unacceptable = I mustn't do this

and

unacceptable = I must intervene to protest against this

Sometimes it is your duty to put a stop to something, sometimes just to make a mental note that it is best avoided.

That is yet another skill I want my teens to learn.

Arisbottle Sun 19-May-13 12:47:29

A few my classes that have just left have bought me a posh coffee machine for my classroom . I wonder if any of their parents are mumsnetters. grin

Blu Sun 19-May-13 12:56:07

I do not call my DS a twat.

But I am SO pleased that my every interaction in the workplace, especially when I am dealing with huge numbers of teens, is not subject to scrutiny.

Arisbottle Sun 19-May-13 12:58:03

I would never call a pupil a twat and it is unacceptable .

BoneyBackJefferson Sun 19-May-13 13:01:20

TheFallenMadonna

We change over early.

Wabbitty Sun 19-May-13 13:55:06

In Britain twat is synonymous with twit. In America however it is very offensive.

Blu Sun 19-May-13 14:18:21

I'm British and I think twit is a childlike term, and has quite an affectonate ring to it which is completely lacking in 'twat'.

I don't take 'twat' to be synonymous to 'cunt' though, as they do in America and Canada, i.e actually being slang for vagina.

HollyBerryBush Sun 19-May-13 14:22:24

twat

/twät/

Noun

1.vulgar. A woman's genitals.
2.vulgar. A person regarded as stupid or obnoxious.

cory Sun 19-May-13 14:54:33

<ponders whether being called a stupid bloody twat could actually startle ds into doing some work>

(if so, I hope his teachers are MNers)

ReluctantlyBeingYoniMassaged Sun 19-May-13 15:29:20

It's a health and safety (gone mad?) issue in our school - we are not allowed to walk down corridors with a hot drink.

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS Sun 19-May-13 15:30:25

It would not bother me and tbh the teacher will probably have more respect from the kids for being a bit 'street style' in his attitude.

ReluctantlyBeingYoniMassaged Sun 19-May-13 15:40:56

I don't think calling someone a twat counts as street style.

LastTangoInDevonshire Sun 19-May-13 15:54:29

Would OP have preferred him to have been called a clumsy fucking idiot?

digerd Sun 19-May-13 16:05:18

I'd never heard of the word "twat", until I came on MN. I realised at once that it wasn't a compliment, but it relating to a Vagina hadn't occurred to me as men have been called it and they don't have one.

And a vagina is not in any way stupid- it is the passageway to creation and birth .
That's me off my soapbox now. smile

TwllBach Sun 19-May-13 16:06:19

In our school we aren't allowed hot drinks in the classroom (or any drinks, for that matter) but we are primary.

As for leaning back in his chair, one poster upthread wondered why it was a big deal and why shouldn't he? It's annoying, quite frankly. And dangerous. We start telling our pupils not to do it from the moment they get to school, in nursery, so he should know by now not to do it! I say, leaning back in my chair this very second

digerd Sun 19-May-13 16:41:46

I did it at home after retirement age being lazy - I swore at myself- after I got over my shock and somehow managed to get up off the floor and out of the chair. < Still got goods abs even if everything else has gone to pot grin
Never too old to do stupid things blush.

xylem8 Sun 19-May-13 17:42:05

In Britain twat is synonymous with twit

No it most definitely isn't!!.

thebody Sun 19-May-13 17:48:49

My sympathies are with the kid who has to re do his/her coursework.

I have called my once 15 year old lads twats. Probably wouldn't at work though as in reception class!

digerd Sun 19-May-13 17:51:12

I have only a digital dictionary, and shows twit and twat, but too complicated for me to find the meaning of twat.
Anyone got a dictionary that defines what twat means in english?

digerd see Holyberrybush's post at 14.22

lljkk Sun 19-May-13 18:00:10

If your DS is fine about it I wouldn't raise a mountain out of the molehill.

maddy68 Sun 19-May-13 18:02:41

Why shouldn't the teacher have a cup if coffee in the classroom. It's common practice in any school ive worked in. I always have a brew while I'm teaching as I get a dry throat when talking all day and I don't get any breaks always on bloody duty. Sounds like the lad was messing around.
It's not appropriate for the teacher to call him a twat but we have all said something inappropriate when shocked and that coursework will all have to be redone!

digerd Sun 19-May-13 19:10:32

AKiss
Thanks. I did look it up myself and found 2 websites.
1st.
definition female Vulva. May have originated from Old Norse in the 17th century.
Meaning - cut, slit or forest clearing. hmm
2nd as Hollyberry bush said.

I have heard of the expression ' stop being like a big girl's blouse' to a an older boy/man, which I find quite amusing, but not sure what that actually means.grin.

StrawberryMojito Sun 19-May-13 19:15:20

Completely unprofessional to use language like that. Teacher probably knows it.

Picturepuncture Sun 19-May-13 21:29:29

I've been out all day and just catching up.

3 things to add, 1. Of course the teacher knows he shouldn't have said, it clearly slipped out in the heat of the moment.

2. I can't stop laughing at the idea that a class of 15 year olds needs protecting from one hot drink in the classroom.

Oh and 3, to the poster who asked if my pupils are allowed hot drinks- no. Two reasons, 30 cups of tea clearly more of a h&s issue than 1, and I don't abide by the same rules as the kids on this issue, for the same reason I don't wear school uniform or refer to the headmaster as 'sir'.

frillyflower Sun 19-May-13 22:14:59

I think this thread is really odd. Why is OP so exercised on the part of her nephew who didn't seem that bothered himself an also has parents to worry if necessary on his behalf?

For Gods sake - who would be a teacher! Dealing with kids all day, harassed by ofsted et al and totally at the mercy of any busybody who just wants to 'go up the school' and have a good old criticise.

And as for the 'teachers not allowed a cup of tea in the classroom' words fail me except to say get a life maybe.

cricketballs Sun 19-May-13 23:35:42

grin frilly!

About the drinks issue --only on mn--; my classroom is so far from the staffroom, that by the time I get there at break (following short detentions/discussions/trying to get through the same corridor that 1000 kids are in) I have time to make a brew then have to make the trek back; so unless I have my drink in a lidded mug I'm wondering when I would have the chance to have a drink (knowing I also run a lunch club but that I should be doing from the goodness of my heart and not worry about eating/drinking in order to survive..)

The language issue; (sorry for shouting!) WE ARE HUMAN! and therefore we may have a slip of the tongue. This however is shouting fuck off to a 4 year old, it is telling a 15 year old they are a twat (which where I live is not that bad!)

The op that critiqued grammar and spelling - we are not in work, we are having a discussion on the internet and therefore we are allowed to drop the perfection persona for a few hours

I thought I had read some idealistic responses on mn over the years about how teachers should behave/speak/act but this thread has really taken it to the extreme...perhaps we should just have robots in a classroom but I can already see the threads now.....

cricketballs Sun 19-May-13 23:40:47

not shouting fuck off I meant to say! but I am sat here at this late hour, only just finishing marking/planning and writing yr 8 reports....

C999875 Sun 19-May-13 23:43:51

I agree with Macnewpants2013. What on earth was the teacher doing drinking coffee in a classroom any way. Surley this breaches safety regulations. Ok I know the children are 14/15 or are they 15/16 but even so. Not only that but surley drinking coffee around electrical devices is very unsafe.
15 or not it was very very inapropriate for a professional teacher to use such language. I do not use offensive words in front of my 14 year old and I am damn sure I would not let anyone else do this. Also imagine if you called your child a twat and he went into school and mentioned this, we all know what the teachers would (probably)do, inform social services. I appriecate they are human like ravenAk says but perhaps if they cannot handle working with children then they should consider an alternative career. xx

C999875 Sun 19-May-13 23:46:35

4got 2 ask B4 but what is D.N acronym for. Thankx in advance. xx

Picturepuncture Mon 20-May-13 00:01:57

Also imagine if you called your child a twat and he went into school and mentioned this, we all know what the teachers would (probably)do, inform social services

I am quite sure social services (and teachers) have better things to do...

C999875 Mon 20-May-13 00:09:01

But I did put in the word probably so there is my defence. xx

Picturepuncture Mon 20-May-13 00:13:39

Oh, right then. In which case you are (probably) a twat talking rubbish.

C999875 Mon 20-May-13 00:26:12

Yeah that's me, but I can laugh insults off. x

Picturepuncture Mon 20-May-13 00:29:05

grin phew

ChasingDogs Mon 20-May-13 00:30:30

If one of my teachers in Y10 called me a twat I'd have worn that fucker like the badge of honour that it is! <whilst admittedly feeling guilty for being said twat and chucking coffee on coursework whilst messing around in my chair- but none of my mates would have had to know that!>

I'm a bit confused over the coffee-in-the-classroom thing. I'm only in my late 20's, but still, I don't remember a single teacher's desk that didn't have a tepid cup of tea or coffee as an adornment. A teacher without a rapidly-cooling drink was like a person without a face (unless they did P.E. or chemistry, for some reason I had several chemistry teachers that preferred to hide whisky in the store cupboard. Even at the time, we sort of knew we had driven them to it.)

I still, to this day, remember our enthusiastic history teacher in Y8 declaring that so-and-so had so-and-so "by the short and curlies!". It wasn't even a swear word, but we didn't half listen closely after that, just in case one dropped out. (One did drop out eventually, but in fairness we were a year that went through 6 maths teachers in 2 years. Some of my classmates had serious skills in the annoying twat department shock ).

glastocat Mon 20-May-13 05:45:27

I had a French teacher who could be seen at the start of every school year bringing in a case of Macallan to the staff room, so am a bit confused at all the argy bargy over coffee. Mind you he also once clipped the ear of a particularly obnoxious boy, who protested saying he would have him up for assault. The teacher asked the rest of the class if anyone had seen anything and they all said no! This was a grammar school in the 80s, the teachers wouldn't have called us twats though not until 6th form anyway.

cory Mon 20-May-13 08:30:20

"I agree with Macnewpants2013. What on earth was the teacher doing drinking coffee in a classroom any way. Surley this breaches safety regulations. Ok I know the children are 14/15 or are they 15/16 but even so. Not only that but surley drinking coffee around electrical devices is very unsafe. "

Probably trying to keep her voice lubricated given that it is unlikely she will get any time during the school day to sit down quietly in a safe place and have a drink. I find after 4 hours of lecturing that I develop a tickly cough that makes it difficult for me to speak at all, water doesn't help to ease it, but coffee does.

"Also imagine if you called your child a twat and he went into school and mentioned this, we all know what the teachers would (probably)do, inform social services."

Do you really believe this scenario is at all probable? I can imagine social services using fairly robust language to a teacher who wasted their time in such an indefensible way.

Of course we all know the teachers shouldn't have said it. The question is whether it is a meaningful use of anybody's time to launch a complaint every time somebody does something they shouldn't. As a parent I would hope that my dc's school does not apply that approach to me.

As I said earlier I want my teens to learn to distinguish between:

unacceptable = you shouldn't do this

and

unacceptable = I have to challenge this

And if I don't teach them nobody will.

Life is full on injustices that it is your moral duty to challenge. If you waste your energy on minor issues you won't be able to do it effectively.

HalfBakedAlaska Mon 20-May-13 08:42:59

Absolutely disgraceful that a teacher should be allowed a hot drink during the day. Dry bread and water at a push, but coffee? Far too luxurious. Much better that teenagers are cosseted and never around hot drinks to keep them safe.

IncrediblePhatTheInnkeepersCat Mon 20-May-13 08:45:43

C999875: " Not only that but surley drinking coffee around electrical devices is very unsafe. "

Really? You've never drunk a cup of tea or coffee while at the computer/on a laptop/on a 'phone?

Wine or beer I can understand. That makes your keyboard very sticky if you spill it and takes a lot of cleaning.

And no, if a 15 year old student shared with a teacher the scenario above, but about his parent in place of the teacher, and he was finding it funny, social services would not be called.

GoblinGranny Mon 20-May-13 08:53:32

You know, I distinctly remember drinking hot beverages around my children when they were small. Perhaps SS would have been interested?
I put my coffee behind my desk, on the windowsill, and in almost 30 years, nothing has been spilled on papers or on a person.
Nor have I sworn at a child.

xylem8 Mon 20-May-13 10:21:51

the teaching assistant in dd2 reception class managed to spill coffee twice over tge same child!! Having coffee near course work is just begging for trouble if you ask me

Picturepuncture Mon 20-May-13 10:25:10

the teaching assistant in dd2 reception class managed to spill coffee twice over tge same child!! Having coffee near course work is just begging for trouble if you ask me

What's the point in this post? So one TA definitely was being a twat so therefore no teachers/TAs can drink coffee?

C999875 Mon 20-May-13 13:56:59

Hi Incrediblephattheinkeeeprscan I love the name B.T.W. Anyway here goes. Yes! really I have never drunk coffee near a lap top, and I happen not to appriciate teachers swearing at children and if that makes me out of touch them so be it. xx

xylem8 Mon 20-May-13 13:58:44

Omm it's called making conversation picturepuncture

C999875 Mon 20-May-13 14:00:46

No Picture puncture teachers should not be allowed to drink coffee around children! Is not what their staff room breaks are for, perhaps I'm wrong though.
I know one thing if coffee was spilled on my child. I would not be very happy. xx

Picturepuncture Mon 20-May-13 15:44:16

15 year olds are not children. Do you not drink coffee at home in front of teenagers?

Ffs.

No one is saying that what the teacher said was good. Just that it's probably not something to get massively het up about.

ravenAK Mon 20-May-13 18:10:36

My break usually allows me enough time to make a coffee. Drink it? No chance.

SuffolkNWhat Mon 20-May-13 18:17:40

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

frillyflower Mon 20-May-13 18:37:55

I think it maybe makes people feel important to go and complain (can't understand why else you would bother to go and defend your nephew who neither needs nor wants any defence).

No one is saying teachers should be allowed to swear at children but as others have said teachers are human beings and your dn was in the wrong actually.

If your dn was my son I would have been cross with him for swinging on his chair, knocking over the teacher's coffee and then laughing at the chaos he caused.

Blissx Mon 20-May-13 18:47:29

I still love the fact that some MNetters think teachers get regular, protected breaks. Every Day. I wish!

What do they think happens to the DCs during these periods? Surely being left alone is slightly worse in terms of H and S than a lukwarm cup of tea? smile

Wuxiapian Mon 20-May-13 19:05:06

That kind of language should never be acceptable.

SpanishFly Mon 20-May-13 19:36:07

I'm astounded at how many people think it's ok. If my manager called me that, I'd be fuming, so whys it acceptable to call a pupil that?
Teachers shouldn't be calling any pupil names, imo

xylem8 Mon 20-May-13 20:39:33

'I'm astounded at how many people think it's ok'

I'll bet that is because their children are much younger than 15 and would be furious if a teacher said that to their child.They cannot imagine their DC being that age,

Wuxiapian Mon 20-May-13 21:05:44

My DS is almost 15. I still wouldn't find it acceptable.

xylem8 Mon 20-May-13 21:30:06

sorry wux I am agreeing with you .I meant they have their little child goggles on and think older children are some how less precious.

jollygoose Mon 20-May-13 22:38:41

I had no idea twat meant what mnetters suggest and have often said it in fun - well wont be doing that again. My dear bro also a teacher also thought it was quite innocuos. I guess we had a sheltered upbringing!

Picturepuncture Mon 20-May-13 22:59:06

Wux, you wouldn't find it acceptable but would you complain about it to the school?

Dominodonkey Mon 20-May-13 23:12:08

The last few posters who are saying they wouldn't accept being called a twat in the work place...
So if you were doing something you shouldn't and because of your carelessness some work that was irreplaceable and your colleague had spent weeks working on got ruined and your response was to laugh you wouldn't expect to be called a slightly offensive name?
Unless you work in a nunnery you are talking rubbish.

EatenByZombies Mon 20-May-13 23:30:47

YANBU, my teachers would have been absolutely bollocked if they swore, and I was at a bog standard secondary (albeit with great Science/maths Ofstead reports, which apparently makes the school great? hmm ). I don't think it's appropriate for a teacher to call any student a name. Especially not something that huge over something so minor.

I mean seriously.
Coffee.
It's the teacher's fault for putting the coffee next to coursework, what sort of twat idiot would do that when there are kids around?

Wuxiapian Tue 21-May-13 06:58:32

Picturepuncture, I would certainly raise the issue with the school.

Domino, the case in point involves teacher/child. She is in the position of authority and meant to set an example.

Using such language is not professional.

SpanishFly Tue 21-May-13 07:47:03

Domino, it was the teacher's fault the coffee was next to the work.
The boy laughed after being called a twat, not at what he had done.
Teacher is in the position of authority and shouldn't be name calling.

cory Tue 21-May-13 08:11:00

C999875 Mon 20-May-13 14:00:46
"No Picture puncture teachers should not be allowed to drink coffee around children! Is not what their staff room breaks are for, perhaps I'm wrong though.
I know one thing if coffee was spilled on my child. I would not be very happy."

So what do you do when your 15yo gets a Saturday job? Tell his boss he mustn't be around anything hot or sharp?

15yos are not babies. They are people who will be adults in 3 years time, people who need to get used to functioning in the workplace, people whose very education demands that they should be around dangerous equipment and do handle dangerous chemical substances.

Everybody agrees that it is unprofessional for a teacher to swear. It was wrong, it shouldn't have happened.

What most of us do not agree with is that when something unprofessional happens in front of a 15yo, the appropriate response is for Mummy to steam in and complain.

A 15yo should get used to negotiate his own way with teachers unless there is a serious situation that is beyond him. This is not it.

I have teens myself. It is my job to prepare them for the adult world, not to fight every battle on their behalf.

And in this case, there wasn't even a battle to be fought; the boy wasn't traumatised but mildly amused. He was dealing with it in a sensible way, recognising its incongruity but coping. He'll probably go far in the world- unless his mum keeps poking her nose in.

Picturepuncture Tue 21-May-13 11:16:31

Thank you cory, an excellent post.

xylem8 Tue 21-May-13 19:50:18

15 year olds are actually not allowed to work in kitchens

Picturepuncture Tue 21-May-13 20:43:23

Goodness you are right, they never drink hot drinks themselves either. They mustn't be within 10foot of hot chocolate for fear of burning their teeth.

Smudging Tue 21-May-13 20:49:28

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EatenByZombies Tue 21-May-13 21:07:25

By parts of down south I assume you mean council estates where everyone is unedumacated and are all our setting cars on fire each night? confused Because I've lived in different parts of the UK, too but I've never heard anyone call another person a twat jokingly, unless close friends. Everywhere I've lived it's been considered on par with cunt, the only difference I've noticed is that when I lived up north more people said twat than cunt hmm

It might be because I'm a northerner, but I find it very strange that anyone would use that word instead of idiot in civilised situations.

EatenByZombies Tue 21-May-13 21:08:32

For example, I went to secondary school in Berkshire, and no one gor suspended for calling the teacher an idiot/twit but they would have if they'd used the word twat.

Smudging Tue 21-May-13 22:21:35

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EatenByZombies Wed 22-May-13 02:09:36

Ah!
I think the Northern way is the way to go. You'd never see the word twat uttered on tv before watershed, though you would see twit/idiot etc. I think this is a good standard to start from.

cory Wed 22-May-13 07:28:00

xylem8 Tue 21-May-13 19:50:18
"15 year olds are actually not allowed to work in kitchens"

No, but in any workplace the other employees are likely to have coffee around: I am sure they do so in all the places where dd's friends work.

Certainly this was the case when they did their work experience; I know dd's work experience place well; they drink coffee and tea there. (And swing pick axes.)

We are not discussing whether they should be allowed to work in the admittedly very dangerous setting that is a professional kitchen, but whether they should be protected to the extent of not being in the same room as somebody else's cup of coffee.

At school they cook and do chemical experiments- how could they manage food technology if they are not allowed to be in the same room as a hot liquid?

As a parent surely it is your duty to prepare your 15yo against the not at all distant day when they will be working in any workplace? If they can't be in the same room as a cup of coffee at 15, how are they going to handle independent life (and possibly a factory job) at 18?

I expect my teen to take responsibility for part of the family cooking: to not get her involved in this would seem like parental negligence, seeing that she is going to have to cater for herself within the next few years.

KellyElly Wed 22-May-13 09:23:25

If you called a client or colleague a twat in the workplace it wouldn't be acceptable. As the classroom if the teacher's workplace then it's clearly not acceptable. A twat is not on a par with cunt granted, but it's the same as calling someone a dick head, which is still pretty unprofessional. I doubt the teacher in question would speak to a parent like that so why is it ok for them to speak to a child like that?

GoblinGranny Wed 22-May-13 09:27:33

Exactly cory. When my DS was on work experience, one of his jobs was to make tea and coffee whenever it was requested.

Picturepuncture Wed 22-May-13 09:30:42

Sorry Kelly, did anyone say it was acceptable?

TwistTee Wed 22-May-13 09:31:36

Sounds like the teacher just lost his rag. I can't really see that anyone was at fault. 15 year olds rock on chairs, it's what they do, and sometimes teachers lose their rag. Both parties probably regret their actions and will be a little more careful in future.

TwistTee Wed 22-May-13 09:33:41

Can't really see the issue with the coffee either. Don't 15 year olds drink hot drinks. Sounds like health and safety gone to far to suggest the teacher can't drink a cup in his classroom.

KellyElly Wed 22-May-13 10:07:15

Picturepuncture Yes they did. Sorry are you assuming for some strange reason that my comment was aimed at you?

ConferencePear Wed 22-May-13 10:26:25

As a teacher I don't think it is right for teachers to take drinks into class. The kids can't do it why should we ?
Secondly I would be horrified if a colleague spoke to a pupil in this way. How can we expect kids to speak properly to us if we don't speak properly to them ?
Whatever happened to trying to set an example ?

Picturepuncture Wed 22-May-13 11:06:24

I'm not assuming it was aimed at me.

I'm frustrated at people not seeing the subtlety between 'yes, shouldn't have said it, but no real harm done, no need to complain' and 'yeh, that's fine, we sayz that sort of shit allz da time'

Picturepuncture Wed 22-May-13 11:09:06

As a teacher I don't think it is right for teachers to take drinks into class. The kids can't do it why should we

By that logic, I assume you also wear school uniform and get your homework diary signed every week?

Whatever happened to trying to set an example?

The key word there is trying obviously on this one occasion the teacher slipped up. The very fact that the DN in question was sniggering about it proves that it isn't a routine occurrence. The teacher slipped up, once. Like, well, a human might.

GoblinGranny Wed 22-May-13 11:26:21

You limit your life in the classroom and school to within the limits permitted for the children, Pear?
How odd.

KellyElly Wed 22-May-13 11:27:34

I'm frustrated at people not seeing the subtlety between 'yes, shouldn't have said it, but no real harm done, no need to complain' and 'yeh, that's fine, we sayz that sort of shit allz da time'

The sort of comments I was responding to don't really convey the subtlety you are referring to. See below -

At 15 I cant see a problem with it... although is he sure that the teacher said twat and not twit..

This is not an issue. It just isn't.

Oh for fucking, cunting, twats sake lighten up. Teachers are believe it or not human, the world isn't going to end if they respond in a perfectly normal way to something that is going to cause them stress, especially at this time of year.

Picturepuncture Wed 22-May-13 11:31:44

The second two comments are referring to whether or not the OP needs to complain to the school not whether or not the teacher should have said it in the first place.

The last one points out that 'the world is not going to end', it doesn't advocate using the word twat in every lesson.

And the first you've quoted casts doubts on whether or not the incident happened as the teenager recalled.

KellyElly Wed 22-May-13 11:49:53

Picturepuncture Thank you for your analysis of other posters comments.

In answer to your points - comment one actually starts with At 15 I cant see a problem with it, hence the fact the poster is saying at 15 being called a twat shouldn't be a problem.

Comment 2 - I applaud your psychic skills that enable to you know that the poster stating 'this is not an issue' is not actually saying that calling a 15 year old a twat isn't an issue and is actually referring to whether the poster should complain to the school.

The last one points out that 'the world is not going to end', it doesn't advocate using the word twat in every lesson. You are reaching here, really reaching.

You seem to have jumped on my post and feel the need to prove your point - quite frankly I have no idea what that point is. Are you someone that needs to be right? Is this issue close to home? Are you just an argumentative person? Delete as appropriate.

Picturepuncture Wed 22-May-13 11:58:44

OdFod.

I've been having this circular discussion for days (well I have been also, you know, living my life). I was pointing out to you that you weren't adding anything new to the discussion. My insight into the other posts comes from reading them as they occurred as part of the ongoing discussion. which was interesting when it started

cory Wed 22-May-13 12:28:19

KellyElly Wed 22-May-13 09:23:25
"If you called a client or colleague a twat in the workplace it wouldn't be acceptable. As the classroom if the teacher's workplace then it's clearly not acceptable. A twat is not on a par with cunt granted, but it's the same as calling someone a dick head, which is still pretty unprofessional. I doubt the teacher in question would speak to a parent like that so why is it ok for them to speak to a child like that?"

Most of us are not saying it is ok. We are saying Mummy shouldn't deal with it.

I would be livid if my boss called me a twat. But I would not expect dh to go in to sort her out.

And equally my dc would be horrified if I stormed in to school to deal with something that they see as part of their remit.

Of course, they are not adults yet; there are some areas where I would still intervene when I wouldn't for a grown-up. Prolonged bullying, for instance, or depression. But these areas are getting fewer every year. Mostly I say to them: "well, what do you think you need to do to sort this out?".

Parenting teens is about learning to gradually withdraw control over their lives.

C999875 Wed 22-May-13 13:41:19

Cory. I hate to differ with you here, but my child is a teenager and please believe me if anyone refered to here as a "twat" then I'd be dealing with it! Not even I use bad language to here so I would no way in hell let anyone else do it. Although I do agree with letting them sort things out to a certain degree, Parents wont be there forever, but the use of offensive language by a teacher to me is crossing the line.
I get the impression that a lot of people seem to think parents should see their children/neices/nephews as precious when they reach their teens, but all children are precious to their familes regardless of their ages.
Let's be honest if this lady's D.N was 5 you'd all be up in arms and saying "Go in sort it out, How dare she talk like that to a young child", and yes rightly so. Yet because he's 15 some people seem to think they should just get over it. Also is there any wonder why some teenagers do not know how to use acceptable language when professional adults cannot control their language. Or, is it another case of do as I do not as I say. xxx

cory Wed 22-May-13 13:50:05

My children are enormously precious to me. If they were struggling or suffering or unable to cope I would be right there for them. What they don't need is for me to intervene when they are already coping.

This 15yo was not struggling or upset: he was amused at the teacher's faux pas.

He was not upset so he doesn't need help with that aspect.

He was amused which shows he recognises the incongruity of it- in other words, he doesn't need help to understand that swearing in a professional setting is wrong; he already does.

I don't see what he needs help with.

TwistTee Wed 22-May-13 14:01:34

I think what people are missing here is that this wasn't normal behaviour for the teacher. The shock from the other children suggests this. No, it isn't acceptable, but are we all so blood thirsty that we cannot accept teachers have bad days, are human and may occasionally lose it.

My mum, former teacher in a country were corporal punishment was the norm, but who never hit a child, once lost it with a teenage girl who disrupted the class to the point the lesson couldn't continue and then refused to leave the class. Mum picked up a black board ruler and smacked it across a desk in anger. It broke, the girl left the class in shock and mum came home so upset with herself. It is one of the few times I have seen my mum cry and she is fairly tough. She was a great teacher as many of her former students will testify to, but on this one occasion she felt she let herself and her class down by letting the girl get the better of her.

Blissx Wed 22-May-13 16:50:48

cory (love your very well thought out posts by the way) - when you say "Mummy shouldn't deal with it", in the case of the OP, "Aunties shouldn't deal with it' either!

As not only the student but the parents were not offended by the outburst, it should end there. The Aunt shouldn't have wanted to involved and that is what most of the initial posts were saying. Then it got weird after some MNetters focused on the hot drink. The OP has long gone from this thread-I can see why!

xylem8 Wed 22-May-13 18:53:39

'are we all so blood thirsty that we cannot accept teachers have bad days, are human and may occasionally lose it.'

..being professional means keeping a lid on your emotions and NOT losing it!

Picturepuncture Wed 22-May-13 19:36:00

So yes then.

GoblinGranny Wed 22-May-13 19:37:59

And you know what?
A lovely big mug of sweet delicious coffee help you do that. grin
Or three.

SuffolkNWhat Wed 22-May-13 20:25:41

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

olivertheoctopus Wed 22-May-13 20:27:53

I'd be cross, yes. No teacher should swear at their pupils. And they prob shouldn't leave cups of coffee next to coursework either but she's presumably cross with herself about that particular fact.

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now