to think i shouldn't have to pay for childcare incase ex is late?

(49 Posts)
LittleLisa78 Thu 16-May-13 22:43:58

Ex has fortnightly contact. Friday had always been my day off so I was always around to collect kids from school and he'd collect them from me any time from 3.15-6 depending on where he was working. He has the option of working from home on Friday so could collect them from school but never has, often working from home a different day instead to fit in with his social life. From next month I have Wednesday off instead of Friday and I finish at 5.30 on Fridays. I told him this and he expects that I'll pay for after school club til 6, though he admits sometimes he'll collect them at 3.15 therefore wasting my money. AIBU to think he should pay for after school care on his contact day? We don't have a contact order.

Tommy Thu 16-May-13 22:47:07

I don't think YABU
You don't finish til 5.30. He can pick them up at 3.15 - his responsibility.

This is currently happening with a friend of mine - exH is being a complete arse and expecting her to pick up childcare when he is working even though she works pretty much full time and sorts out her own childcare

IneedAsockamnesty Thu 16-May-13 22:49:51

Yanbu.

He needs to be responsible for the dc during his contact it is not unreasonable to have a time when that contact is due to start and end. Its his responsibility to manage his time and cater to his child.

That means he either funds the after school club on the days he is due to collect her from school or he gets there on time, just like you have to on the days she is your responsibility.

LittleLisa78 Thu 16-May-13 22:52:50

I just think he should appreciate it that he had it good for years with being able to rely on me to look after them til whenever but now he either needs to take responsibility by being on time to collect from school or pay for childcare. He says that's what his maintenance can go towards - the same maintenance that doesn't come close to paying for food, clothes, uniform, activities etc

HollyBerryBush Thu 16-May-13 22:53:51

Does he pay maint?

TheDetective Thu 16-May-13 22:54:00

YANBU.

My ex has pulled similar on me. Only I get billed, and I don't know he's done it - until DS told me one day hmm. He did the same with school dinners - I send packed lunch. If he can't be arsed to make one, then he can pay for the school dinner. Instead DS gets sent home with a bill to give to me!! Makes my blood boil!

His time with children = his responsibility for childcare IMO.

Mine has even had the audacity to ring my mum and ask can he drop DS off at hers at 7am in the morning (she lives by the school). Cheeky fecker!

TheDetective Thu 16-May-13 22:54:41

I don't think it matters if he does holly. If he needs childcare, on his day, he should pay.

HollyBerryBush Thu 16-May-13 22:56:05

Sorry x-post.

I never quite get the idea maint is supposed to pay for everything - a child has two parents, equally responsible, plus CB and in many cases a large dollop of CTC also. So to assume the absent parent should pay for everything is totally unreasonable.

LittleLisa78 Thu 16-May-13 22:56:14

Pixie I've said that to him really: a set beginning time and he said we'll make that time 6 when most NRPs finish work but still expects me to pay for childcare

TheDetective Thu 16-May-13 22:59:45

No, the absent parent should pay half.

Never quite bloody works out that way does it. hmm

My ex pays me £120. This was 15% of the NMW in 2009!! He's a store manager now. And yet if I go to the CSA, he will not pay me anything for months til it is sorted. And I need that £120 regularly. I can't be waiting months for it to be sorted. And not to mention the fall out from it and his childish behaviour that it would bring.

He has me over a fucking barrel. Ooops. Sorry, didn't mean to rant.

My DS definitely costs me more than £240 plus CB per month. And no, no TC here.

LittleLisa78 Thu 16-May-13 22:59:49

I didn't say he should pay for everything, what I was saying is that he expects that the maintenance he pays does cover everything for the kids and can also stretch to cover this which is farcical.

Concreteblonde Thu 16-May-13 23:07:34

YANBU. Ex thinks that he is perfectly reasonable to propose picking the children up anytime for 3-6pm on a Friday depending on what other priorities he has. I am expected to pay for childcare and as after schools is only open until 5, I am then required to not be able to work evening shifts so that I can look after the children until whatever time he decides to roll up.

(I look forward to him making this proposal at the next contact hearing hmm )

IneedAsockamnesty Thu 16-May-13 23:36:00

I've noticed a trend on here recently with some posters thinking that if a nrp pays maintenance then that means s/he pays for 100% of the child's needs and if the pwc gets any gov assistance that means they don't fund anything.

Its a load of old bollocks. most parents tend to fund there children's lifestyle in a way that ties in with money coming in the more you have the better your children's lifestyle is ( from a purely financial perspective) I don't know any none abusive parents that don't operate like that.

Op so change it to 6 or a time that suits you but make sure the drop off is also at a time that suits you make it clear that as he is expecting you to fund childcare on that day there are no circumstances you will rearrange these times and she will not be available whilst she is in paid childcare only after the session has ended don't drop her off to him make it his responsibility to collect and return her, stop doing him favours. If he wants to be as unhelpful as possible then let him just don't make it easy for him to abdicate responsibility.

IneedAsockamnesty Thu 16-May-13 23:39:05

And it is generally expected by decent people and the csa that a nrp is responsible for 100% of the costs during agreed contact times that's why they get reductions on maintenance for each over night they have the child.

LordSugar Thu 16-May-13 23:53:00

YANBU

Your ex is being unreasonable by expecting that the pick up time can be tailored to suit him each week, and by saying that 'his maintenance' should cover the cost of the extra childcare.

I would do as Sockreturningpixie suggests, and say that if the children are in childcare, then they are in childcare, and he will have to pick them up at the end of the childcare session, not at a time to suit him.

He sounds like an arse; I bet you are glad he is now your ex!

Fefifo Fri 17-May-13 00:11:44

YANBU

I think some (unreasonable) men like your exh are just of the opinion that anything to do with their child must ultimately come down to being the responsibility of the mother, which I think would be his issue regardless of how much maintenance he pays or even the fact that you've split. I imagine that were you still together, where the actually money involved in itself would be less relevant, it would still be you that would be expected to manage childcare around your commitments rather than him having to consider this.

His contact time, his responsibility and given that you've said he actually could manage to collect them every Friday by working from home, I can't see what how much maintainece he pays you has anything to do with it.

StuntGirl Fri 17-May-13 00:36:33

YANBU, so far all I see is you having to accommodate his needs. Really he needs to arrange his time and work so that he can adequately take care of his children when they are in his care.

I think a specified time would help with the routine of it, and if he is unable or unwilling to organise his time to ensure he can be there for his children then he'll have to pay for outside care until he can.

AudrinaAdare Fri 17-May-13 00:44:26

sock I had to laugh at something being generally assumed by decent people AND the csa grin

CloudsAndTrees Fri 17-May-13 07:55:51

YANBU, but I think all childcare costs should be split equally on top of maintenance if it is enabling both parents to work anyway.

IneedAsockamnesty Fri 17-May-13 08:49:35

I know audrina but legend has it there was once one of them in the csa once apon a time.

Op I'm not suggesting you get into rows with him or anything like that more like a work to rule thing. He's decided the rules now you will work to them.

No collecting child before childcare has ended
No doing him favours like passing school info on ect

You stick to being responsible for her whilst she's in your care and expect him to whilst she's with him but of he's unable to accommodate her due to his work or plans ect then no swopping if he asks to swop so he can go out with mates the answer is no you don't collect her then you miss out,no sending clothing to his he should be providing her with those things whilst she is with him.

LittleLisa78 Fri 17-May-13 11:34:00

Even if he doesn't collect her until child care ended though, it'd still be me footing the bill - while he probably goes shopping/has an extra few hours in the gym

mumandboys123 Fri 17-May-13 11:45:55

No, it's not unreasonable but what are your options? what sort of a mess does it leave you in if the messes about, turns up late, etc. etc?

I have the same issue - my ex pays no maintenance as he's self employed. I work full-time in a professional job on an average wage. I pay a little over £200 a week for childcare and I get less than £50 a week in tax credits towards that. I have no choice but to pay for childcare full time because my ex messes about and I cannot afford to not have childcare in place when he does. As I teach for a living, you can appreciate that I simply can't be late or not turn up for a few days whilst I get childcare re-arranged. He sees the children during the week most weeks so that's one afterschool club and one breakfast club that I pay for that I shouldn't have to.

I live in hope that one day the children will understand what my life was like trying to work around them and what sacrifices I made to do that. They will, by contrast, see a rolling in money ex who never does anything for them. Too young to realise what that means today, they won't always be quite so innocent of his ways. I hope so, anyway.

DontmindifIdo Fri 17-May-13 12:05:52

If he needs childcare on his day, he pays for it. Or he arranges family to pick up for him - in the same way on your days you pick up or make other arrangements.

IneedAsockamnesty Fri 17-May-13 14:08:45

I know that op but unless he's all of a sudden going to morph into a reasonable person ( in that case he would foot the bill for that session) there is nothing you can do about it,you cannot force him to show up on time.

If it was me I would say "ok but pick up time is 3:15 from school" but I would make sure I was there as I could be sure he wouldn't be,I would then make the child unavailable by taking them out and not answer the phone or door to him untill the next time he was due to collect her. And I would do that every time he did not show up to collect her. Or untill he arranged and paid for childcare during the time he was surposed to be in charge of her.

But then again it wouldn't bother me if he attempted to take me to court nor would it bother me if he got stroppy and I can be a bit harsh like that,most people do get bothered by these things.

PearlyWhites Fri 17-May-13 17:02:55

OP so you spend over £320 a month on one primary school child, really on what exactly?

LittleLisa78 Fri 17-May-13 17:16:08

Pearly - two primary children, which means I need a 3 bed roomed house - the rent for which is £200 more than a 2 bed roomed house alone. Not to mention food, clothes, uniform, school trips, dance lessons, gymnastics classes, football classes, beavers, petrol to all of above and school, extra utility bills, days out, friends birthday presents...I could go on

Concreteblonde Fri 17-May-13 17:51:46

Pearlywhites are you for real ?

Let me guess - are you a) a NRP who believes that his rights come way before his responsibilities or b) the wife/girlfriend of a NRP who is bitter about the amount of money spent on her Ex's children ?

LordSugar Fri 17-May-13 17:53:00

I was going to say the same as Concreteblonde.

IneedAsockamnesty Fri 17-May-13 17:58:57

Where did you even get £320 from?

Op you do not have to justify your costs at all, if the arrangement is that he is supposed to collect her from school then if he is unable to make that due to work or social commitments then arranging appropriate care and funding that is his responsibility.

Even if you spend your week wiping your arse with £10 notes.

PearlyWhites Fri 17-May-13 18:00:16

No not a non residential parent, am a mum of four who couldn't afford to spend over £300 on each child per month. Didn't mean to cause offence was genuinely curious.

PearlyWhites Fri 17-May-13 18:01:09

£320 was the 120 maintenance x 2 plus £80 a month child benefit.

LittleLisa78 Fri 17-May-13 18:05:48

Why £120 maintenance?

LordSugar Fri 17-May-13 18:09:18

PearlyWhites, the £320 wouldn't necessarily be spent by the OP on 'stuff' for the children. Maintenance goes towards the general 'running costs' of a child, so that would be rent, council tax, water, gas, electricity, food, school trips, school uniform, clothing, activities, the list goes on.

Quite frequently the resident parent will have taken a step back in their career, or gone part time, to enable them to take care of the children. £320 isn't a fortune per month for a single parent, believe me.

TheDetective Fri 17-May-13 18:11:07

You've misread the OP. I posted about my ex's maintenance being £120 not the OP.

Childcare alone for a primary aged child can be more than that. Just for your information.

TheDetective Fri 17-May-13 18:16:18

£80 a month on travel to school (11 miles away).
£40 a month on school lunch.
£40 a month averaged for new clothes, shoes fucking shoes!! and school uniform.
£10 a month for Scouts.
£100 a month on food.

Then you have the additional costs of having a bigger home, more electric/gas/water uses. Plus childcare. And then any trips out with your child. Birthday parties. Other kids birthday parties. School trips, schools wanting donations for a gazillion things.

I could carry on, but I won't. But mine definitely costs more than £320 a month that's for sure!

LittleLisa78 Fri 17-May-13 18:17:02

LordSugar - never mind 'taken a step back' I gave up a fab career and place at Cambridge University to care for our children. Meanwhile exes career has flourished

Kneebeefjerky Fri 17-May-13 18:23:12

I think you should probably split it. As you said 'depending on where he is working' I assume sometimes that he is needed in particular places on a Friday so can't necessarily work from home every Friday.

As it's actually you who has changed your working day I think it's reasonable to split it as you're making yourself unavailable for the pick up as well. On the basis that both of you are going to be unable to do the Friday pick up regularly I think splitting it is the fair way.

I don't think it's fair for him to expect you to pay it all, but at the same time I can see that from his point of view you simply announcing that you are changing your arrangements so he has to fork out the whole lot would also be unfair.

IneedAsockamnesty Fri 17-May-13 18:23:19

Pearly. As I said earlier parents tend to bring up children in accordance with there incomings wealthier parents tend to mean children have a higher standard of living poor parents mean a lower standard of living.

I.e my best friend is a none working lone parent her children whilst having the basics the general financial standards in the household are what I would consider low any treats they have tend to be gifts from me.

I'm not a none working parent but I am a lone one with a healthy income my children have activities like flying lessons,own horses,sailing and the such like.

maddening Fri 17-May-13 18:23:26

Holly - even when nrp pays maint they still cover all cost if their days themselves - eg rp isn't usually expected to provide food when child is at the nrp's house are they?

LordSugar Fri 17-May-13 18:23:30

My point exactly, LittleLisa!

I think Pearlywhites was under the impression that you are raking it in and taking £320 of your poor hardworking ex's money each month to spend on designer clothes and luxury toys for the kids!

IneedAsockamnesty Fri 17-May-13 18:28:49

And I don't think you should split the costs, it very much reads as if the arrangement is that he has always been expected to collect from school but as that's previously been your day off it has never much mattered if he does not manage his time effectively as you are about to get her if he can't. Rather that you all of a sudden changing the arrangement and expecting him to fit in with it.

It sounds like you are just asking him to either stick to the original arrangement or not rely on you anymore when he can't.

PearlyWhites Fri 17-May-13 18:40:53

Thanks socks for answering my genuine question without being rude.
Lord sugar you are talking nonsense of course I don't think that. Children should be both parents number one financial priority. And I am also well aware of childcare costs.
I just hadn't included extras like rent and household bills because in my experience with four dc those costs only went up by a small amount.

EatenByZombies Fri 17-May-13 18:40:59

Sidetracked/honest question; Do you have 1 DS and 1 DD? Just trying to understand why you need a 3bed house instead of a 2bed smile

StuntGirl Fri 17-May-13 18:44:24

sockreturningpixie speaks sense, as always.

He needs to put the children first, not himself. If that means forgoing the day off earlier in the week, so be it.

IneedAsockamnesty Fri 17-May-13 20:34:03

Pearly no problem, I do try to avoid being rude often I fail epically but its usually unintentional,

One thing it looks like you haven't really though about in your situation with 4 dc's and general living costs is this

Larger houses tend to be more expensive to buy or rent they also tend to cost more in ct heating lighting water and to maintain with children in an ideal world you need more than a 1 bed property so you automatically have increased costs that tend to go unnoticed.

And stuntgirl thank you.

Er, the more kids you have, the more food you need to buy FFS.

To OP: If he is being a knob, now's the time to get it formalized, because otherwise he will carry on being a knob and expecting to have everything arranged for his convenience rather than what's best for the DC - and with no consideration for your needs at all.

PearlyWhites Fri 17-May-13 22:19:03

Obviously you need to buy more food however the more dc you have the less you spend on food per head as you can bulk shop.

IneedAsockamnesty Fri 17-May-13 22:44:00

Solid if she try's to formalise it a court can't order him to show up on time they can't even order him to actually show up all they can do it order mum to make her available.

LittleLisa78 Sat 18-May-13 00:19:56

I have 2 DD's and one DS, youngest DD with new partner though. Like sock says - court order wouldn't change a thing. Agree he should work from home on Fridays and collect from school - that would not only make most sense but also mean he had more involvement in schooling than the token gesture of going to parents evening once a year

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