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AIBU to think crocodile pajamas are unisex and perfectly suitable for DD?

(186 Posts)
CockyFox Thu 16-May-13 12:32:12

This morning I went to Tesco to get DS and DD some pajamas, DD didn't want any of the girls pajamas (cats, cakes, butterflies etc on them) so I said we would look the other side of the shelf for some for DS and go somewhere else for hers.

On the Boy side we selected some with monkeys on for DS and DD saw some with green and blue crocodiles on, and said she liked those. They had her size so I picked up the pack and asked her if she was sure those were the ones she wanted. She was sure so I popped them in the basket at which point an very friendly assistant who had been setting out shoes told me the Girls pajamas were around the other side of the display, I said thank you but we were fine. Then while i was selecting myself some knickers she appeared with a pack of pink pajamas and asked me if DD preferred those. DD bless looked at me and said 'I like crocodiles' so just said again no, we are fine and walked away.

I am sure IANBU, but do you think I am and if I am could somebody please explain what makes crocodiles unsuitable for girls? I am not bothered by the shop assistant she probably has really girly daughters and thought I was trying to make a point and was making sure the crocodiles weren't being forced on DD.

MarthasHarbour Thu 16-May-13 12:36:31

Oooo that made my blood boil (on your behalf!).

She was probably being 'helpful' in a really annoying kind of way, but i applaud you for not batting an eyelid when DD said she wanted crocodiles smile

I have a DS and we have always said if we ever have another and have a DD then she can wear most of DS's old clothes!

MarthasHarbour Thu 16-May-13 12:36:49

oh and YADNBU by the way! wink

Bizarre. My very girly 5 yr old dd is delighted to be wearing her brother's hand me down batman pyjamas this week. I can't see how it is decided that cats are for girls and crocodiles are for boys.

MarthasHarbour Thu 16-May-13 12:39:27
Punkatheart Thu 16-May-13 12:39:54

I loathe the pink girly stuff - as if feminine is always Cartlandesque good smells and quietness. Yeh to crocs! I would have loved those as a kid! Your girl sounds adventurous and lovely.

AThingInYourLife Thu 16-May-13 12:40:53

"I can't see how it is decided that cats are for girls and crocodiles are for boys."

Because cats are cute and fluffy, like girls.

A crocodiles are tough and interesting, like boys.

Passmethecrisps Thu 16-May-13 12:42:52

Crocodiles are awesome. Dinosaurs are awesome. Why should only boys get awesome?

YADNBU.

Before my DD was born we didn't know what sex se was so we bought what we thought was unisex - including dinosaur babygrows and blue and red spotty ones. It would appear we were the only people who thought these were unisex

PelvicFloorClenchReminder Thu 16-May-13 12:43:05

Cats are viscious killers.

Crocodiles are viscious killers.

Children are children.

Nope, none the wiser.

PelvicFloorClenchReminder Thu 16-May-13 12:45:14

I spelled vicious wrong. Oops blush

RooneyMara Thu 16-May-13 12:46:57

I hate it when this happens. It's intended, I think, to make you feel bad on some level but I can't quite put my finger on why.

ds3 is 4 months old and he sometimes wears a little red coat, and tights. A lot of people assume he is a girl, but even when they know he's a boy, people stare as though I am going to damage him by dressing him in red and/or tights (I presume that is the problem)

He also has a red pushchair and I get asked if he is a girl frequently.

AThing? You're being sarcastic, right? hmm

(Hard to tell without the tone of voice...)

MarthasHarbour Thu 16-May-13 12:49:13

i wondered this too orchard hmm

RooneyMara Thu 16-May-13 12:50:12

yes of course she is.

CockyFox Thu 16-May-13 12:50:17

I knew it wasn't just me. I like crocodiles so does DD.

I'm not somebody who says this is for boys and this is for girls but equally I'm not anti-pink and Anti-princess, I'm just Pro-DD and however she wants to be .

RooneyMara Thu 16-May-13 12:50:35

well from what I know of Thing.

BarbarianMum Thu 16-May-13 12:50:55

No you are not being unreasonable. I would go so far as to say, had your ds wanted the pink pajamas, that would not have been unreasonable either.

Animals are not gender specific.
Pirates are not gender specific.
Flowers are not gender specific.
Vehicles are not gender specific.
Colours are not gender specific.....and on and on.

Today a mum at school complained that her daughter had selected a 'boys book' from the library. It was a factual book about science. Girls only like fiction, apparently. hmm

Sometimes I could weep.

If it's any consolation op DS decided he was going to wear his tutu out today. Did try a feeble attempt at taking it off him before we left but he's ill, we've not slept & anyone who wants to give him funny looks is risking it, as I've not had enough sleep to stop myself from telling them what I think about their 'helpful' advice on gender appropriate clothing... brew

RooneyMara Thu 16-May-13 12:52:39

Oh lovely! Ds1 had a tutu. Once he painted himself green, face included and put on my old pink ballet tutu. He was 3 at the time.

I love showing him the photos, now he is 9 this is all UNTHINKABLE

NeedsTherapy Thu 16-May-13 12:53:10

I had a similar problem with dd. we went to buy some wellies and I wasn't keen on any of the pink ones, I aske what she wante and she picked out some skull and cross bone ones, after a discussion about why I didn't think they were appropriate (girl or boy I don't do skull and cross bones on clothes unless dressing up as a pirate) she picked some boots with fish on them only for an assistant near by to point out all the pretty girls shoes and say she wouldn't really want the yucky boys shoes would she? My dd looked at me and said, but its fish, I like fish.
The till operator also asked if they were for her brother and made a comment along the lines of but there for boys dd is 2!

I don't even look in the girls section for my dds most of the time any more! Especially for PJs. The girls PJs are always cut ridiculously small for some reason. Last week I bought Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle PJs for dd2 (6) and Avengers Pjs for dd1 (10).

CockyFox Thu 16-May-13 12:53:56

And DS who is my eldest had a red pushchair, red is definitely unisex. After all some of the most stereotypical tough men dream of owing a red Ferrari.

Saski Thu 16-May-13 12:54:48

I am pleased to hear that there will be some cute little girl in crocodiles, because I have met too many mothers who push the pink sparkleigh nonsense before the poor girls are actually conditioned to it, thereby actually contributing to it. I don't understand.

Plomino Thu 16-May-13 12:55:09

DD 1 rolled out of bed this morning wearing her brothers Dr Who and the Daleks pyjamas , which she prefers to her fairy ones because the dalek ones are soft and well worn .

She also insists in going riding in her brothers old Arsenal fleece for the same reason .

She has thick blonde hair down to her waist , so as yet , no one has mistaken her for a boy . Ad if she's happy ( and slept longer today than she has for a week ) then why not ???

MrsHowardRoark Thu 16-May-13 12:56:17

This kind of thing really pisses me off.
Why do people insist on reinforcing gender stereotypes?

At a cafe today I was asked what sex my child was. When I asked why I was told that the boys' picnic had a turtle box and Spider-Man chocolate and the girls' had a butterfly box and hello kitty chocolate. I refused to tell them and it caused the most ridiculous panic.

CockyFox Thu 16-May-13 12:59:57

needstherapy that is pretty much what happened today, fish are also not just for boys how daft.

Zombies My DD would love avengers Pjs.

DS is almost 7 he thinks nothing of wearing pink at home and on holiday, mainly because my brothers often wear pink so if his uncles do it, then it is obvioulsy ok for boys. He won't in front of his school friends though which is a bit sad really.

girliefriend Thu 16-May-13 13:00:06

YANBU and I think very restrained in not telling the shop assistant to do one shock

My dd doesn't like anything pink, princesses, fairies and finding her pjs without this on is a problem - its ridiculous!!

I have offered to get dd pjs from the boys section as she loves batman, superman etc but she just looks sad and says 'they are for boys mummy' sad no amount of reassuring seems to help.

Minty82 Thu 16-May-13 13:01:23

Argh this makes me so cross!! Surely any animal is a unisex design??!! And green - apparently green is a boys' colour and no-one told me. I dressed DD in a green woolly hat (and some other clothes, obviously, but can't remember the rest of the outfit) when she was about 8mths, and she not only got mistaken for a boy, which I don't mind, but when I corrected them I got 'Why have you dressed her in a green hat then?' confused
It was a green woolly hat, with a big pompom and a picture of a sheep. The height of masculinity, I'm sure you'll agree.

All DD's babygros were unisex, partly because the stuff designed for girls was so uniformly marshmallow I couldn't stomach it, and partly so that they'll do for a future DC2 of either flavour. But half the time I had to buy them from the supposed boys' range. Rainbow stripes? Boy. Ducks in wellies? Boy. Elephants? Boy.

She's 14mths now, and I generally dress her in clothes that make it clear what sex she is (though not much pink), but the arbitrary designations of what is suitable for one or the other, and the rigidity with which you're supposed to stick to them make me livid. Thanks for the opportunity to rant!

PS Crocodile pyjamas sound fab!

CockyFox Thu 16-May-13 13:03:59

girliefriend
that is sad that she won't wear things made for boys if she likes them. Do you wear mens clothes ever? I think the fact I often wear DHs jumpers and coats (and boxers but don't tell him) means DD doesn't think having boys clothes is odd.

Goldmandra Thu 16-May-13 13:04:37

MarthasHarbour that link is so like my DD2! The plaits, the boys' clothes and the Lego. She'd be disgusted if a shop assistant suggested she should have pink PJs.

It makes for some interesting conversations when we have family meals out and my DSIS's two arrive in their coordinated designers dresses. I am usually feeling good if I've found something without stains or holes in that DD2 will wear. Grandparents do not approve but tough.

You know what. Children should wear what makes them feel good. That's what adults do smile

AdoraBell Thu 16-May-13 13:05:19

YANBU

Many years ago I worked in a similar shop and we had primary colours for boys and pastels for girls. A customer asked a question, don't rememeber what now, and I had to give the marketing line because my supervisor was behind me - these are for girls and those are for boys.

Customer said that was utter rubbish, primary colours are primary colours and it makes no difference who wears them.

Same applies to your DD's pjs, I hope she enjoys her new crocodile pyjamas, they sound fab.

BabyMakesTheBoobiesGoLeaky Thu 16-May-13 13:08:01

Dc3 has a lovely green coat and more often than not is wearing her red angry birds hat and her beloved jeans. people are often very unsure of whether to refer to her as he or she. Long brown haired boy or girl in brothers clothing?

Lottapianos Thu 16-May-13 13:15:43

This issue turns me into Victor Meldrew screaming 'I DON'T BELIEVE IT! IN THE NAME OF SANITY!!! THIS IS THE ABSOLUTE LIMIT!!!'

It boils every single one of my bodily fluids that so many people are so hung up on stereotyping boys and girls. It's just so conformist and stifling and dictatorial. I work in Early Years and I promise you that EY professionals can be the absolute worst for 'boys do this, girls do that' nonsense. It makes me want to howl at the moon.

My beautiful little niece is going to be 1 year old this summer and because I'm a saddo organised, I bought her birthday card the other day. I deliberately wanted to choose one without pink and glitter and sh1t all over it because both me and her mum hate how pink is forced on little girls. So I chose one with a teddy holding a blue balloon which read 'Look Who's One'. So cute. When the assistant rang it up, it came up on the till as 'Birthday Card - Boy' angry I said nothing because it's hardly the assistant's fault but FFS - why must absolutely everything be divided into stuff that's suitable for only one gender at a time?????

I guess all we can do is keep on frothing very loudly about it and sharing the misery on here! grin

Remotecontrolduck Thu 16-May-13 13:16:06

Argh that would have pissed me off, she was probably trying to be helpful but sadly is a bit ignorant.

DD would have loved the crocodile ones, and the cat ones. I probably would have got her both. I wonder what the lady would have said then? grin

CockyFox Thu 16-May-13 13:16:39
IsabelleRinging Thu 16-May-13 13:19:58

Where did this all start? In the 70s there were no girls and boys colours or animals, there were just colours and animals and kids wore what they liked. Nobody would have been seen dead wearing pink back then!

BabyMakesTheBoobiesGoLeaky Thu 16-May-13 13:20:13

Oh I love them. Dc2 would love them.

Januarymadness Thu 16-May-13 13:20:17

far more of dds pjs are from the "boys" section. Boys pjs are much more fun

Ten years ago my DD's favourite shirt was navy with a bold printed tiger on the front. She wore it with her beloved, ruffled, denim skirt...and still was referred to as a boy!!

I concluded people just don't really look and sadly many people do not think and accept marketing as reality!

Let your girls choose bold colours, vibrant prints and wild animals...these are not solely the preserve of boys wink

BabyMakesTheBoobiesGoLeaky Thu 16-May-13 13:21:45

Probably when hand me downs became less common and the money making pinkeratti honed in on girls.

miffybun73 Thu 16-May-13 13:27:23

YANBU

Though my 3 year old DD gravitates towards pink and purple she loves wearing her brother's PJs that he's outgrown - dinosaurs, Cars 2, Postman Pat, Cat in the Hat.

She absolutely loves dinosaurs thanks to he brothers influence and her obsession with Dino Dan (on cITV)

girliefriend Thu 16-May-13 13:28:43

They are fab pjs Cocky!

No I don't really wear anything 'masculine' I am quite girly (hence the name wink ) but dds not at all.

I just go with it now, she is not fussed about clothes at all as long as they are practical and comfy. I have tried to get her t.shirts from the 'boys' section before and she isn't keen and I think its because she is worried other kids might tease her (she is 7yo) yesterday I nearly bought her some chinos as I liked the colour and couldn't work out why they are just for boys confused

I think clothes and toys are more gender specific now than they have ever been which makes me angry

Squigglypig Thu 16-May-13 13:29:38

Great pajamas OP. YANBU and well done for not telling the shop assistant to feck off, which I would have been sorely tempted to do.

DoctorRobert Thu 16-May-13 13:30:54

Must be a Tesco staff thing...

Was in Tescos at the weekend, needed a new changing mat for DD. Chose blue as our bathroom is blue & I also actively try to avoid too much pink.

As it went through the checkout, the lady said to me "Oh, somebody must have had a boy!" I replied that no, I have a daughter and don't go in for the whole blue is for a boy pink is for a girl rubbish.

She looked at me as if I was absolutely mad.

Also we found last year that the girls' shorts pj's were high cut and kept going up her bottom. Boys' ones come down to just above her knee and are so much more comfortable. Ridiculous

Lottapianos Thu 16-May-13 13:34:08

'She looked at me as if I was absolutely mad'

People just can't seem to get their head around it, can they? Are they the same people who warn mums of 2 year old boys not let him help with the cleaning as it will 'turn him gay', as one lovely person said to parent I know recently? hmm angry

DS is three and likes to choose his own things. He has red jeans from the girls section, a pink Miss Piggy cup, and a Minnie Mouse bag. He likes red and pink. I couldn't care less.

Idontknowhowtohelpher Thu 16-May-13 13:38:02

dd2 (11) wears all "boys" pyjamas as she likes them best - but she has asked me to buy her some girlie ones to wear on her school residential trip as she is worried the other girls will laugh at her... sad

Minty82 Thu 16-May-13 13:38:52

Someone actually said that Lotta?!! No way??!!!

The changing mat thing is ludicrous. As is people buying gender specific prams, buggies etc when they intend to have more than one child. That I really don't get. (I mean, I don't get why you would want a gender specific pram even if it was only going to have to do for one maybe, but when it means you're going to 'have' to trade it in for a new one...? Weird.)

LadyBigtoes Thu 16-May-13 13:39:14

Mad. I often look in the boys' section for DD, to broaden our choice and include some more exciting clothes/more colours. Her favourite pjs are Gap "boys" astronaut ones in dark blue. They look absolutely great on her. She likes the "girl" things, like fluffy kittens, as well.

I am a feminist and spend large amounts of energy actively resisting these categories and trying to avoid giving my kids any subliminal messages (eg saying astronaut to them, not spaceman). But a lot of people don't think that way, girls' stuff is for girls and boys' stuff is for boys. From that POV the assistant probably really thought you needed a push in the "right" direction.

Stuff like this shows how very ingrained gender inequalities are.

Scruffey Thu 16-May-13 13:39:56

The assistant was trying to help. It is unfortunate that she has been indoctrinated, so I wouldn't hold it against her.

I dressed my dd in all different colours including ds hand me downsbut once she went to nursery when she was 3, she wanted everything pink and at 5 she still does. She is obsessed with fairies, princesses and looking pretty and she learnt this from other children. I am a bit of a tomboy and dd lusts after high heels that she sees her friends mums in!

loofet Thu 16-May-13 13:40:18

Grr, this really irritates me. Are there no girl crocodiles then? Do they not exist? Also I HATE it when to make animals like monkeys and lions 'girly' they just have them pink and will put long eyelashes and eyeshadow on them hmm Really annoys me.

Animals are unisex. Imo everything is unisex, if a child wants to wear something and feels happy wearing it then whatever. Doesn't matter if it's a boy dressed as a fairy, girl dressed as a builder. Whatever makes them happy.

Yanbu btw, at all.

Xiaoxiong Thu 16-May-13 13:40:50

20 week scan next week - I will be thrilled whatever DC2 is but I can't help sort of hoping it's a girl so I can dress her in all DS's hand-me-downs. She'll look just like the kid in MarthasHarbour's lego ad.

I went round to help my neighbour's two DDs get dressed the other day - their closet was a terrifying sea of lovely things, frills and crochet and bows and birds with bows on their heads and sparkly pink shoes. In despair I finally just dressed them like DS in jeans, t-shirts and hoodies to go to the park.

CockyFox Thu 16-May-13 13:41:07

Are they the same people who warn mums of 2 year old boys not let him help with the cleaning as it will 'turn him gay', as one lovely person said to parent I know recently?

surely nobody really thinks this, cleaning is a life skill for everybody. Of course that is totally irrelevant as you can't 'turn someone gay' by any means even if you wanted to (which my friend often did before he found his partner).

AgroomOfOnesOwn Thu 16-May-13 13:41:15

Society is going backwards.

Like the girl in the Lego ad, all my 70's growing up photos have my bro and I in bright primary colours including matching green and white striped beach hoodies. We're wearing childrens clothes rather then the mini-me gender specific rubbish available.

This has nothing to do with demand either, the fact that we're all buying 'boys' clothes for our daughters does n't register on the till. Any thing I find in a tough fabric at a good price that is n't pastel, camo or covered in slogans I weep with relief at and have been known to buy in several sizes for the future.

Lottapianos Thu 16-May-13 13:41:49

Yes indeed Minty82. sad I was absolutely shock when the mum told me, but then I remembered all the parents who said they wouldn't let their little boys play with dolls or push buggies, and all the parents who say things like 'she loves running, she's such a boy' or 'he loves dressing up, he should have been a girl'. It gives me the rage. Some people are so ignorant.

Xiaoxiong Thu 16-May-13 13:42:54

Yes loofet, eyeshadow for pigs so you know it's a female pig, or they put bows on the animals' heads. WTF does an owl need a bloody bow on its head to make it suitable for a girls' shirt?!

Now if it were actually bloody, that might make it unisex again, because manly things are violent and aggressive, right, like crocodiles hmm

musicposy Thu 16-May-13 13:43:45

This makes me so cross and I wonder how we got to this.

DD2 is 13 and still prefers boys toys and a lot of boys clothes. She gets very cross at the pigeonholing that goes on. She likes Pokemon and Skylanders and lego and dinosaurs and reptiles and electronics sets and all the action stuff. All these things are clearly aimed at boys - why? Why should girls not like them?

The trouble for her now at 13 is that boys PJs are not cut to fit her shape. We found her some Skylanders pyjamas in age 12-13 but they are very wide and not really right. She keeps checking girls clothes for something non pink and fluffy but said with a sigh the other day that girls were never going to get skylanders or pokemon.

She is into onesies as they all are at this age but all the girl onesies are very much pink and bunnies. So she currently has a crocodile onesie which is actually an extra small mens which she loves!

It does worry me because she wants to go on and be a scientist and I know she is going to have to fight her way to be seen as good at a subject which is still supposedly the domain of boys. We're been to a few science workshops at various places and even at places like the Royal Institute she still felt they were praising the boys for their input and taking much less notice of anything she said. And that's where all this gender discrimination that starts at babyhood leads.

I feel very strongly about it and think that it's crazy that in this day and age. The situation is if anything much worse than when I was a child. My lego set was obviously unisex as were a lot of my toys. Rarely happens nowadays. sad

CockyFox Thu 16-May-13 13:44:32

the assistant probably really thought you needed a push in the "right" direction.

I think she did too Lady which is why I wasn't annoyed with her personally just the generally accepted norms regarding animals for girls and animals for boys.

Lottapianos Thu 16-May-13 13:44:50

CockyFox, you are right on both counts, but this mum actually said to me 'everyone tells me I'm going to turn him gay'. Just because he likes to grab a cloth and 'help her' with the dusting. He was 2 years old. 2 sad

Totally agree about animals too. When I'm looking at animal pictures with children, I try to use 'he' and 'she' equally, like 'Ooh look it's the tiger, she's got a long tail' or 'ooh look, the giraffe! He's eating leaves'. It's disturbingly tempting to refer to all animals as he, just shows how much we've all been indoctrinated.

ubik Thu 16-May-13 13:46:01

My three year old DD will only wear trackie bottoms, t shirts and trainers and utterly refuses tights, dresses and hair brushing. She is entirely 'herself' and even the other children are unsure if she's a girl or boy.

Ours have always worn 'boys' t shirts, PJs - I think they like the primary colours and the pictures on the front.

Startail Thu 16-May-13 13:46:23

YANBU
DD1 wore yellow dinosaurs for years.

Well, CockyFox - if your dd grows up to be a butch, dungaree-wearing mechanic who can't find a nice husband, it will be all your fault for allowing her to wear crocodile pjyjamas. << shakes head sadly >>

Seriously - what does the shop assistant think is going to happen? Your dd will grow a moustache and a willy overnight? Good for your dd and for you for fighting back against the tide of candy-pink.

Songbird Thu 16-May-13 13:49:37

I still think this is the best example of the pinkification (do you like my new word?) of a unisex classic. Utterly ridiculous, it makes my blood boil!

OneHandWavingFree Thu 16-May-13 13:49:47

Are you all aware of the Let Toys Be Toys - for Girls and Boys campaign that started right here on Mumsnet about six months ago? You all sound like kindred spirits smile

The campaign is focused on toys, and specifically with asking retailers to stop sorting them under "Girls" and "Boys" and instead to call them what they are: "Dolls", "Construction Toys", "Science and Nature." The campaign has really picked up some momentum and we've had some successes recently - some major retailers are paying attention and making changes. Please join us at FB, Twitter, and by signing the petition!

<sorry for plug, seemed very relevant to thread... Tesco toy section was recently a focus of the campaign, and got some media attention>

Minty82 Thu 16-May-13 13:50:53

Where do you start with the 'cleaning will turn him gay' thing?! With the implication that there's anything wrong with being gay? With the suggestion that it's something you can condition a child into being? Or with the notion that heterosexual men shouldn't clean?!

notso Thu 16-May-13 13:51:36

Went to a play barn with MIL the other day, and put DS3 in a pink baby walker while I got the coffees.
MIL said in hushed tones "Are you leaving him in that? Wouldn't he be better off in a boys one"
My eyes nearly rolled out of my head!

Minty82 Thu 16-May-13 13:52:04

Songbird, that makes me want to cry.

CockyFox Thu 16-May-13 13:54:38

shock at the pink globe.

And if you saw me most of the time SDTG then you'd know it wasn't the pajamas that encouraged dungaree wearing.

Startail Thu 16-May-13 13:55:00

Musicposy I'd a science degree 25 years ago and it makes me angry that girls still pick up that message.

I was an engineers DD and far too thick skinned to care and DD1 wants to do something scientific and has never worked about it being for boys, but both of us do tend to be top of our groups which helps.

DD2 is far more socially aware. She does pick these things up and mutter that the boys are better at maths. In vain do I say they certainly weren't in my class and that one of her friends mum's has a first for maths. If she works there is no reason why she shouldn't be as good as the boys.

Thurlow Thu 16-May-13 13:58:37

I was told my the shop assistant in Clarks that she "wouldn't judge me" when I chose a pair of brown boy's shoes for DD.

If I hadn't had a voucher to spend there I would have thumped her one.

MrsPnut Thu 16-May-13 14:01:22

I hate this too, I have a very strong minded DD2 who will not wear any thing that is remotely dress/skirt like. Neither will she wear pastel colours or anything with trim on that she deems to be too frilly.

I buy mostly boys clothing and the odd item from the girls side. Boden does some quite nice girls clothes in bright colours and she has the tiger pyjamas and absolutely adores them.

NotKathyReichs Thu 16-May-13 14:03:33

Genuine question, too lazy to start a new thread but Ive noticed double standards a lot on these threads; it seems to be acceptable for a boy to run around in pink but not a girl, and more desirable to have a daughter thats a tomboy (I hate that phrase but its the clearest way to explain it).

Im intruiged to why we stereotype tiny girls because of their taste in clothes. Surely its totally acceptable for girls to wear any colour they want including pink sparkly stuff if they is what they want?

SkiBumMum Thu 16-May-13 14:04:18

I agree. Croc pjs sound fab.

I am currently ranting about swimwear. Dd1 is a little fish. She goes to the pool to swim and do somersaults and have fun. She likes her turquoise short sleeve rash vest and wears the shorts from last year's M&S 3 piece uv set. The shorts are falling apart so I've been trying to replace them. Impossible! 4 year old Girls wear itsy bitsy bikini bottoms or swimsuit covered in ruffles apparently. I bought some royal blue swim shorts boxer style trunks in the end. She likes them and they do the job but I suspect if she had been with me in the shop we'd have had a refusal!

OneHandWavingFree Thu 16-May-13 14:04:55

Absolutely, NotKathy, it is totally acceptable for girls to wear any colour they want. What's not acceptable is the children's clothing industries telling girls that they should only want one colour - pink.

thecakeisalie Thu 16-May-13 14:06:12

The shop assistant in the disney store looked at us like we were strange when ds2 has chosen a Rapunzal doll and I was more than happy to get it for him.

Ds1 is naturally drawn towards superheroes, cars, trains and so on but ds2 has a pushchair and dolly, prefers playing with our wooden play kitchen and is just generally drawn to 'girls' toys. I try to just allow them to both be interested in what they like and sod what people think!

I don't get all this gender stereotyping rubbish either so I would say you yanbu.

OneHandWavingFree Thu 16-May-13 14:06:52

It's the assumption that girls only want pink sparkly things, to the exclusion of everything else, that makes people angry. And the overt messages that children are given that cupcakes, fairies, and princessess are for girls, and everything else is for boys. It's ridiculous.

CockyFox Thu 16-May-13 14:07:19

NotKathyReichs

I see what you are saying, as I said up thread I am not Anti-Pink, DD has her fair share of Pink and Sparkly but she doesn't need to be that all the time and she also likes more boyish things. I am not forcing her to be a tomboy I am allowing her to be herself the same as I am with DS.

thecakeisalie Thu 16-May-13 14:07:31

*Rapunzel even

SkiBumMum Thu 16-May-13 14:09:04

It's the lack of choice we parents of girls dislike. So much sparkly pink and ruffles and frill everywhere. If it is pink/purple/flowery but practical and up to the job of playing I wouldn't have an issue but it isn't. Even pumps seem made for posing not the playground, swimmers for hanging out at the pool side/on the beach not getting wet (anyone else spotted the Peppa one with a full on tutu!).

piprabbit Thu 16-May-13 14:09:21

I'm fuming after a trip to Tesco today. All the toys shelves are helpfully labelled "Boys' Toys" and "Girls' Toys" so you don't accidentally buy them something they Must Not Play With in case they grow up... well I'm not sure what they would grow up, but I'm fairly certain it must be pretty awful to warrant all the signage.

MrsKoala Thu 16-May-13 14:10:30

It's madness. Before i had DS I thought it only affected pink and blue. So when choosing his clothes went for what i considered to be culturally gender neutral like Red, Green, Yellow, Orange (i love bright colours anyway). But we always get asked if DS is a girl when in yellow, but never when in green. We took him for his passport photo in a yellow jumper and everyone kept calling him a her, fine, but then were hmm at us when asked why he was wearing yellow then? Apparently he will look like a girl in his passport for the next 5 yrs confused

It's a whole new can of crazy i never had to open before having dc.

Chelvis Thu 16-May-13 14:15:01

I bought a Postman Pat PJ set in the market the other day (I didn't have a choice, 22 mo DD grabbed it and refused to hand it back, whilst screaming "PAAAAAAAAAAAAAT!" blush ) and the stall holder looked aghast and said "It's not for the little lass, is it?" hmm The "little lass" who is clinging to it with an enormous grin on her face, kissing Pat's picture and saying "Pat, Jess, Meow Meow!"? Why yes it is for her, because she loves it, and no, I don't want the Barbie, Hello Kittie or Disney Princess ones. I thought it was just because he was on old fashioned, older chap in a trad Northern market ... it's so depressing that women join in with perpetuating this crap.

Btw, DD is today wearing blue jeans and a blue t shirt with pictures of fish on it grin

ubik Thu 16-May-13 14:15:04

I have begged DD3 to put on a pretty dress and let me plait her hair but she won't do it. She insists on wearing Spongebob Squarepants converse hmm

Dilidali Thu 16-May-13 14:18:19

DD frequently skips the girl's section and goes straight for the boy's. Currently the favourites are: a reef flipflop pair, black with spiders and creepy crawlies on the soles, combats and a navy moshi monsters TShirt. I don't see it a a boy's outfit.

Chelvis Thu 16-May-13 14:20:26

I do let my DD wear pink if she wants to, and she has plenty of dolls, but it's the creeping genderisation (if that's a word!) of what used to be neutral territory that I really object to. What's masculine or feminine about crocodiles, post delivery or fish??!!

MeeWhoo Thu 16-May-13 14:24:46

"why must absolutely everything be divided into stuff that's suitable for only one gender at a time?????"

Because then they can sell double the amount of clothes/buggies etc. to those who have children of different genders and believe all this marketing crap.

IneedAsockamnesty Thu 16-May-13 14:25:13

Nothing wrong with a pink globe. One of my sons has one right next to his normal coloured one and a brownish one.

Januarymadness Thu 16-May-13 14:25:22

Have you all seen the "let toys be toys" campaign?

OxfordBags Thu 16-May-13 14:25:47

My son is obsessed with cats and kittens and would reject your crocodile pjs. Luckily, he also loves sparkly pink crap too, because apparently cats are for girls only, don't you know. Yes, the disloyal torture-killers of the pet world are obviously all cute and fwuffy and perfect for wickle gurlz hmm

I buy his clothes for each season in advance, to take advantage of offers and stretch the cost, and have been sorting them just now, as he naps. Everything is pastels or brights. There's a few navy items, but mainly because I love navy. I get what I like, what suits him and what I know he likes. He also has longish curly hair and the face of an angel (not biased, ahem). He is a very caring boy, and I get raised eyebrows when he gets a free choice of toys, he will run to the dolls and cuddle them in his arms, tuck them into bed, feed them, and so on. We were at a toddler class this morning and every single girl was wearing pink or lilac and flouncy stuff, and the boys were all in sludgy-hued 'bloke' gear. Well, except for DS in a peach and white striped breton, jeans and turquoise Converse. I found the conformity boring and depressing.

Things were just not this ridiculous when we were kids, were they? I mean, I know there was miles less choice and availability of clothes and toys, etc., but we just all used to run around in flares and polonecks with pasty shoes and bowl haircuts <child of the 70s>. If you wanted to look particularly feminine, you might go mad with a kilt, some plaits and a fire-hazard cardi some ancient great-aunt had badly crocheted, but that was it. And kids just played with whatever was available. Yes, boys would generally be the ones with cap guns and action mans (men?) and girls with a Girl's World (I wasn't allowed one, sob!) or dolls, but there was none of this bullshit about pink lego or science kits being for boys, or even stuff like sticker books being gender segregated.

There's nothing wrong with girls wearing pink, or boys playing with cars, but parents should just let kids like what they like and back the fuck off with their ignorant gender ideas. A lot of people say they think it's rubbish, but still comply with the stereotypes because they don't want their kids to get teased or whatever. Well, if all the people who know it's bollocks dared to act on that, it wouldn't be an issue (or much less of one, in any case).

Jinty64 Thu 16-May-13 14:28:03

I went to buy pyjama pants for ds3 (6). They had several packs of pink butterfly ones reduced to clear. I asked if they had any cheap boys ones, which they didn't, so I bought the reduced ones. The shop assistant looked like she was going to expire.

NotKathyReichs Thu 16-May-13 14:37:45

I love that last paragraph oxfordbags

Totally agree dc should wear anything they want so I get the rage when people make crappy comments about girls who wear pink, and dont even get me started on the pinkstinks crap grin

It was meant to be a joke, CockyFox - I seem to have failed dismally.

OxfordBags Thu 16-May-13 14:43:14

Um, I agree with the Pink Stinks campaign, NotKathy. I also slagged off the fact that all the little girls in my son's group were wearing pink or lilac.

CockyFox Thu 16-May-13 14:44:44

I know I did get it. It just made me think that I am the exact thing the mums who won't dress their girls in boys stuff hope to avoid, the oily fingered, short haired, non make up wearing woman that the other mums wonder if I'm secretly a lesbian despite having a husband.
Interestingly my Mum is very glamorous and as a child I was always trying on her high heels and makeup and wearing dresses.

LivingThings Thu 16-May-13 14:48:22

My DD is quite happy in her brothers old pirate PJs. She also likes to wear some of his old dinosaur t shirts and play with his cars. She likes pink and dolls too.

honeytea Thu 16-May-13 14:54:51

You see crocodiles live in far off lands, traveling to far off lands is adventurous and adventures are for boys ok, girls, well they are just going to spend their life in the kitchen, it is best not to encourage an unhealthy interest in adventure in little girls, they will only be disapointed when they have to stay at home cooking and clenaing and washing

hmm

TeWiSavesTheDay Thu 16-May-13 15:05:14

I do find the some animals are for nous and some are for girls thing really baffling - why, for eg, do boys get all the bugs except ladybirds, butterflies and dragonflies? And girls get cats but boys get lions? I would live to know how these things get decided!

In the meantime I generally encourage DD to choose for herself, which for a while was pretty much pink and sparkly in an obsessive way, but have drawn the line on PJs - the girls ones are crappy and wear out bizarre quickly. She is perfectly happy to sleep in pirates and monsters and DS will get some wear out of them too.

ScrambledSmegs Thu 16-May-13 15:19:09

I wish DD1 (3yo) wanted dinosaurs or crocodiles. Unfortunately she's recently become obsessed with princesses and pink sad

Luckily she still loves jeans, converse and other colours like yellow and green. And her favourite pyjamas are her blue karate-monkey ones. But still, I feel like she's rejecting me in a weird way because I am not a nicely-dressed well-groomed type.

I had a pair of bright green corduroy trousers when I was young. They were my favourites. Can't imagine many little girls wearing t hose these days.

Decoy Thu 16-May-13 15:23:28

YANBU at all! I'd be very annoyed and would probably complain (who else is going to speak up if we don't?)

BabyMakesTheBoobiesGoLeaky Thu 16-May-13 15:25:42

Ski tesco have some great plain swimsuits.

I also find girls clothing is completely impractical for outdoor rough and tumble. If its not dresses getting in the way on the slide,its the buttons and frills and strings catching them,and the pastel colours stain and look tatty quickly. They are designed to go along with stereotypical 'girls' toys angry !

Saski Thu 16-May-13 15:25:54

Oxfordbags I love your son's outfit! I dressed my boys in Breton stripe shirts with great frequency (I got so much use out of my Petit Bateau one, size 18 months - seared into my memory banks forever) until they honed in on the neckline like a laser beam and determined they were girly.

I can certainly understand that parents of pink-loving girls must find it frustrating when people assume it's foisted upon them.

There are so many beautiful clothes for girls out there (boys are viewed as soldiers or hooligans in waiting, it sometimes seems), I just can't understand the pink thing. I bought a beautiful apple-green smocked dress for a friend's daughter for her birthday and she was like, there's NO WAY she'll wear that, she loves pink! She loved it and wore it constantly. I found it irritating that my friend had obviously not even challenged this assumption.

Colors are here for all of us. So are crocodiles. They're adorable (except the real ones, of course).

DD loves what she loves. Currently her PJs are Buzz (Lighty)ear why she calls him Buzz Ear, don't ask me, sea life in blue, trucks ("more trucks, more trucks"), and dinosaurs ("rawrs"). She wouldn't be seen dead in Princess ones. I know she will turn to the Pink Side at some point but why encourage it?

I have to buy clothes from the 'boy' section because she looks blankly at the princess puppies and LOVES the trucks and dinosaurs (and bugs and monsters and robots).

If there is one thing I could stop with all this it is the image that anything scientific, archaeological, biological or historical is 'boys' and fantasy Princesses, cupcakes and fairies are 'girls'. Let's aim really fucking low for our girls, shall we?

LemonPeculiarJones Thu 16-May-13 15:30:36

What an idiotic woman. Wtf. Brainwashed.

When I was a girl loved ferocious beasts above all others!

squeakytoy Thu 16-May-13 15:33:58

For those of you who would happily dress your sons in dresses and tights, would you be happy if your husband or partner went out dressed in womens clothes?

NotKathyReichs Thu 16-May-13 15:34:12

Sorry to explain what I meant, girls wearing pink is fine. Boys wearing pink is fine. Girls wearing blue, or brown, or postman pat, crocodiles, or a spiderman outfit as my dd did daily for months fine.

Forcing girls to wear pink is pathetic, but so is looking down on girls who choose to wear pink. Thats why I hate pinkstinks, its exactly the same stereotypical crap just from the opposite direction.

ubik Thu 16-May-13 15:36:29

I would love it if DP went out in women's clothes. He already wears a kilt skirt when Scotland are playing!

For those of you who would happily dress your sons in dresses and tights, would you be happy if your husband or partner went out dressed in womens clothes?

I think this is a real issue. Mothers of girls will dress their DC in 'boys' clothes but frequently the converse is not true. Which means that 'boys' clothes are great and good for everyone and girls clothes are only good enough for girls.

I realised when i bought DD a Buzz Ear hoodie that all the male characters were there but none of the female. Because the marketing adage goes, girls will wear boys but boys won't wear girls. What does that tell you about how girls and women are perceived in society. Breeding misogyny early.

5madthings Thu 16-May-13 15:37:41

Yanbu at all, I had the same experience in gap when dd chose the PJs with robots on, blue with bright orange robots and a pair that were pale blue with dinosaurs. The assistant was all 'we have girls pajamas here'...pointing to bright pink ones with butterflies. I showed them to me and she said 'no have dinosaurs' she LOVES dinosaurs.

I bought her a new toy schleich dinosaur the other day and a man in the queue said to her 'oh you don't want that ugly thing you're a girl, girls are too pretty to play with dinosaurs' WTF?!!!

There is nothing wrong with pink but what is wrong is the way girls and boys are pigeon holed into stereotypes! They are children, let the,m be children. Girls xsn like value and dinosaurs and boys can like pink and fairies, my eight yr old ds3 is a big fan of pink and purple and fairies and wears a purple tutu with his jeans and loves Tinkerbell! When he was looking at Lego friends range once in tkmax an assistant came and told him that it was for 'girls' and the 'boys' Lego was on a different shelf. Ffs Lego is Lego its unisex!!!

squeakytoy Thu 16-May-13 15:39:43

"my eight yr old ds3 is a big fan of pink and purple and fairies and wears a purple tutu with his jeans"

And you dont think a boy wearing a tutu at the age of 8 is not slightly opening him up to ridicule from his peers of both gender?

OneHandWavingFree Thu 16-May-13 15:42:04

squeaky that's a problem that should be addressed by the parents of the children who ridicule others for not fitting into rigid stereotypes. Are you suggesting that 5mad should be one more person telling her boy that he's not okay the way he is, liking what he likes?

5madthings Thu 16-May-13 15:43:47

Well he wears it and no-one says anything, he tends to get thumbs up from local teens who seem to think its cool. He has always liked dressing up in all sorts of outfits and its not been an issue at all. He is who he is and it hadn't been a problem at school. But then he goes to a school where bullying is not tolerated and nor is name calling etc for being a bit different. The school regularly does dress up days for various themes etc and the kids dress up as all sorts its just a non issue.

I should probably be on the Feminism boards when I say this... I believe that valuing conformity and condoning bullying by telling kids to fit in leads to more bullying and ultimately things like gang rape. The 'team' is doing something hideous but you go along with it because fitting in is more important than anything else. 5mad you are doing it right.

5madthings Thu 16-May-13 15:46:55

And yes the parents of the bullies or those that pick on others should be telling their kids its not OK tho its not hard to see where they get the attitudes from . my son is happy and confident, I don't squash that and try and make him conform to some percieved stereotype. Just like I won't stop my daughter from liking dinosaurs. Interestingly it seems its OK for girls to be 'tomboys' (hate that phrase) but not OK for boys to be more 'feminate' ffs they are children.

5madthings Thu 16-May-13 15:48:22

I Agree mrspratchet we shouldnt be telling our kids to 'fit in' so they are not bullied, we should be telling the bullies to stop!

LadyBeagleEyes Thu 16-May-13 15:56:28

The poor bloody shop assistant. She works in Tescos in a minimum wage job
She was just trying to be helpful, and finish her day before going home to put her feet up.
Who knew she'd have the wrath of MN starting a gender debate, and insulting her.
I bet she really doesn't give a shit what pyjamas you bought.

Wolfiefan Thu 16-May-13 15:56:37

My kids are gorgeous.
DD likes Thomas the tank engine PJs and her "boy" gruffalo slippers. I wouldn't call her a tomboy. She's just wolfie's DD. She is herself and unique. I'd never want her to be anything else. (Please remind me of that when I am bemoaning what a stroppy teen she is!)
I ask what they like. (They have to wear it!)
Conform? Yes in terms of not law breaking or being vile to other people. Clothing? Rock what you like.
FWIW. Tutu sounds great clubbing gear!!

minouminou Thu 16-May-13 15:59:18

Children and teens can be astonishingly accepting of gender-fluid/neutral children, as long as they don't have knuckle-dragging, narrow-minded or misogynistic fuckwits for parents.

minouminou Thu 16-May-13 16:02:59

It doesn't seem that OP was rude to the shop assistant, though, Lady.

5madthings Thu 16-May-13 16:05:54

www.lettoysbetoys.org.uk

The let toys be toys campaign is very relevant to this discussion, they are on fb as well just search let toys be toys smile sign the petition! smile

The genderfication of the toy market doesn't help children, its madness in fact as shown by the entertainer marketing board games such as monopoly, cluedo, guess who, elefun and hungry hippos as 'boys toys'.

Daisy17 Thu 16-May-13 16:08:34

It's not just girls - I get really jealous of the men's sections when I'm shopping! All the women's tops are floaty, sexy, insubstantial bits of fluff, whereas the men get good quality, interesting coloured and patterned tops that look like they might last for more than a week.....

LadyBeagleEyes Thu 16-May-13 16:08:41

No not the Op miniouminou, but plenty of people on this thread have said they 'would have said something'.

ComeAlongPond Thu 16-May-13 16:08:58

I love that flow chart. Well, I love all flow charts but particularly that one.

Tailtwister Thu 16-May-13 16:11:32

She probably thought she was being helpful, but YANBU there's no reason at all why your DD shouldn't have crocodile pyjamas. Some people are so odd about gender stereotyping. It's almost as if you're depriving your child if you don't dress them in pink.

I have 2 boys btw, so don't have personal experience but it annoys me anyway!

showtunesgirl Thu 16-May-13 16:15:14

DD is just growing into her new 18-24 m/o wardrobe. She has some lovely Pirate Puppy pyjamas as well as a lovely Pirate Grobag. grin

It must be in the blood as I've also previously played a pirate myself.

YANBU, you gave your DC a CHOICE in what to wear.

I'd point naysayers in the direction of Bindi Irwin Who can look girly, be tough, and love animals, all at the same time

CockyFox Thu 16-May-13 16:21:16

ladybeagleeyes
I have said a few times I wasn't rude to her and that I genuinely think she was trying to help my DD get pretty Pjs.
So just in case she is reading this - if you are the assistant at Tesco Shirley who tried to help me, I'm sorry I wasn't getting at you on here, just ranting at 'they' who decided crocodiles are for boys.

squeakytoy Thu 16-May-13 16:22:32

"It's not just girls - I get really jealous of the men's sections when I'm shopping"

so buy what you like then... confused

WhatTheWhat Thu 16-May-13 16:32:01

My little girl (3) loves dinosaurs and I have a lovely pictures of her in her dinosaur pyjamas sitting next to her little brother (1) in his. She also has Hello Kitty ones, so we mix it up a little. I just let her chose without saying "these are the boys' ones, these are the girls' ones".

As an older girl with two younger brothers, I am extremely happy when she wants something that will become a hand-me-down.

Try as I might, I just would not be totally comfortable dressing the boys in anything obviously 'intended' for girls.

Not sure why not really.

I just ignore the shop-floor stuff, which I encounter quite a lot, or I just say quietly to her afterwards - crocodiles are for everyone. Brilliant crocodiles. Or some such.

5madthings Thu 16-May-13 16:32:37

Men's clothes aren't designed to fit the shape of a woman tho do its not simply a case of just buying men's clothes if you want to.

With children's clothes you can, but as they get older is teen upwards you get the same problem. Boys/men's clothes aren't designed to fit boobs/hips etc.

OxfordBags Thu 16-May-13 16:48:04

Agree woth everything MrsTP and 5madthings are saying. You don't teach your child to conform and potentially be ashamed of completely natural parts of themseles, you teach our kids not to be narrow-minded bullies and fuckwits. And yes, girls wearing male characters and playing with 'boy' toys being far more acceptable than boys wearing female characters, etc., is a hidden form of misogyny that starts the inequality system off practically from birth.

StuntGirl Thu 16-May-13 16:55:49

"She has thick blonde hair down to her waist , so as yet , no one has mistaken her for a boy."

Plomino My brother has thick blonde hair down to his waist and he is always mistaken for a girl! The best ones are in busy pubs when some burly old bloke squeezes past, brushing his hand across my brother as he goes "Oo, 'scuse me love", only to have my brother's beardy blokey face peer round at him grin

pigletmania Thu 16-May-13 16:56:44

Yanbu that sales assistant was absolutely ridiculous. When I was in primary school I used to love those shrt sleeved military shirts with badges that te boys used to wear and begged my mum for one. It was fab I loved my shirt grin

RayABlokeIUsedToKnow Thu 16-May-13 17:29:09

When DS was about 2 months he was wearing this hat with navy blue dungarees.

www.littlesunflowers.com/merry-berries/navy-blue-knitted-hat-with-scottie-dogs-red-ribbon-p-12672.html

Navy blue with white Scottie dogs on. One of the dogs is wearing a red bow. The lady in Mothercare commented on what a beautiful girl he was. When I said he was a boy she said, "but there is a red bow on his hat!"

5madthings Thu 16-May-13 17:46:41

Honestly ray didn't you k ow bows are for girls!!! It seems impossible to buy knickers without bows, I was buying myself new knickers the other day and without fail every pair had a bow on them, often just a tiny little one at the front but obviously women need bows on our underwear lest we forget we are female... grin

Those hats are cute!! I may order for next winter...

hugoagogo Thu 16-May-13 18:04:26

Bindi Irwin should probably refrain from doing the fabmaccawackythumbsaloft thing though. grin

RayABlokeIUsedToKnow Thu 16-May-13 18:05:06

Its lovely 5. He also has the Christmas pudding hat which actually is completely gender neutral I would say.

www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B005PMW3RG

My mum has an obsession with them!

MsJupiterJones Thu 16-May-13 18:35:46

MrsTP I totally agree with you. I have a DS (6mo) and it annoys me that although I would happily buy boys' clothes for a girl (as I often do for friends' daughters), I find it difficult to do the same the other way round. The 'male' experience is the default in society and it is seen as shameful for men to imitate women, whether in they way they behave or dress. Except Iggy Pop of course.

Most girls' clothes are so extremely pink and sparkly that I can't quite bring myself to buy him those. I always look and have occasionally bought something purple/flowery but I am aware as he grows up that as squeaky says I can only challenge things within the boundary of not causing him any future humiliation.

Pretty much everything I have bought him is fairly neutral (white, brights, stripes) but as he gets older the options are looking more and more straitened. Acres of denim, sludge green and grey await... Joy.

fuzzpig Thu 16-May-13 18:41:21

AAAAAARGH YASooooNBU!

Most of DD's PJs were boys' ones until quite recently - robots, monsters, aliens etc. And some Chelsea ones but that was daddy's fault hmm grin

fuzzpig Thu 16-May-13 18:44:29

Most of her bedding is blue too, when she got her first big bed I ordered 2 sets of covers - one stars, one robots smile

Smudging Thu 16-May-13 18:51:54

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Oh, I would have killed for crocodile pyjamas when I was wee! I was well into dinosaurs and reptiles, generally. I bet your DD looks adorable in them.

YADNBU op.

My daughter is of the same mould as yours- she would LOVE those crocodile pyjamas.

dd is most definitely not a pink princess though might have something to do with the fact I f*cking hate disney princessy stuff. She does worship at the altar of digger though, and would much prefer to wear something with a digger on it than something pink and frilly. Tonights jammies are these. I can't wash them fast enough as far as she is concerned.

Her clothing, her choice. As long as she is dressed appropriately i.e. not wearing her swimming costume when its raining outside then I couldn't care less. I choose my battles and quite frankly, clothing isn't one of them.

Ditto toys. Her 3rd birthday present from us was a real toolbox 'like Daddy's' filled with play tools. She loves it. Toys are toys, regardless of what colour they are. If dc2 (a boy) wants a doll and buggy, then he can have it.

Ironically, I AM an early years professional!!

OxfordBags Thu 16-May-13 19:01:00

Honestly, MrsJJ, the sludge colours are not inevitable. There are loads of brands that sell colourful and non-'mini thug' or non-'miniature blokey bloke' gear for boys. Next and Boden are particularly good, as well as ones you can find online like Boys & Girls (deliberately ironic name, cos they are mostly unisex), loveitloveitloveit, and so on. All a bit pricier, but if you sign up for email alerts, you can get great discounts and access to flash sales, etc. Oh, and Little Bird by Jools Oliver at Mothercare often has some colourful and gender-neutral stuff too.

I think so much girl's stuff is outrageously pink and spangly that I would refuse to dress a daughter in it, if I had one, so I do think that has some bearing on it being easier to put girls in boys' clothes than the other way round. I find the extreme princessification of girls' clothes an almost deliberate choice to ensure that they really are 'the other'. There can only be one limited identity for a child when wearing them. Fine, if it's one part of her wardrobe, sad when it's virtually all of it.

MsJupiterJones Thu 16-May-13 19:57:41

Oxford yep there are definitely still good neutral options out there, I was exaggerating slightly. Picked up some nice red trousers today (boys dept). Just starting to negotiate the concept of 'outfits' after months of babygros and sleepsuits - so much simpler!

I'd have asked the shop assistant if there was some sort of special tailoring to make it only fit willies. Mind you, after being told that the "girls toys are on the next aisle" I once ask quite loudly if they were supposed to operate them with their genitals, and if so they weren't actually suitable for children! blush Apparently I have a real spine and no shame when pregnant. grin

HairyWorm Thu 16-May-13 20:40:59

DD due in summer and nursery is painted sky blue. I have been asked if I'm going to paint it pink now I know it's a girl!?!? I said I wasn't keen on gender colours and was told magnolia was very nice. WTF is wrong with blue????

I'm actually not keen on pink myself which I think comes from my mum decorating my first bedroom in pink floral paper. I hated it and wanted a dark green room like my brother.
I am resigned to the fact that DD will probably like pink and I'll just have to get over it, but I have asked family to refrain from pink stuff for her. Ill still get some but should mean I avoid the pink overload. I'd love to see more unisex baby and kids clothes. if they're the same shape why are they split by gender?

It's the same shit with 'men's interests' and 'women's interests' magazine sections in some shops where all the science, computers, photography and interesting stuff is in the men's part. Who bloody said they were for men?

Passmethecrisps Thu 16-May-13 20:47:03

What gets me about this whole discussion is how willing total strangers are to pass comment! I find that astonishing.

I did a full load of washing the other day where every single item was pink. We have bought almost nothing for her and none of it pink. All of the pink was given to us. Some of it is fab. Some of the clothes are unarguably cute and some shades of pink are brill. Some of it is just horrid though - putrid shades of blah.

Both sets of parents have been asked not to go down the 'toys like mummy has' route in buying toy irons and such like. If she wants to be like me she will need to get used to drinking red wine and swearing

All fine just now but what if she really wants a toy dyson?

ConstantCraving Thu 16-May-13 20:49:20

My 3 year old DD is another fan of Thomas - she has trains on everything and lots of boy clothes as for some reason no one makes girl's clothes with Thomas on!

IneedAsockamnesty Thu 16-May-13 21:07:31

I wouldn't have a problem if any of my girls wanted toy irons or kitchens or anything like that equally as such neither would I if any of my boys wanted them I also don't much care what colour they pick.

DontAskIDontKnow Thu 16-May-13 21:30:05

DD 2.2 years is upstairs (hopefully asleep) in bed wearing Tesco crocodile pyjamas, or as she calls them her snip-snaps.

I went in to Tesco to buy her some pyjamas, looked at the girls section and could not contemplate buying any of them, so I went to the boys section and was delighted to see some lovely pyjamas with one of DD's favourite animals on them. She loves them, which helps when getting her ready for bed.

She has a doll that I bought her. I don't like them myself, but it's about her personality, which is caring, funny and stubborn. Baby Helga (she's German) is very well looked after. Now trying to buy non-pink dolls clothes, that's a challenge!

Passmethecrisps Thu 16-May-13 21:36:32

Hmm sock. You've got me thinking.

The anti-iron issue is all about me really. If she was a boy I wouldn't prevent him from having cars or trucks if wanted.

I'm just going to need to suck it up if that's what she wants.

I would be astonished mind you given how rarely she will ever see these things!

SirBoobAlot Thu 16-May-13 21:39:03

I'd have flipped my lid.

Hope your DD loves her crocodile pajamas. DS is sleeping in frilly ballerina ones tonight.

gallicgirl Thu 16-May-13 21:50:18

You were very restrained OP. I'd have probably asked what the anatomical difference was between boys and girls that necessitates different clothing at such a young age. (Other than genitals obviously).

I think I'm going to start emailing stores whenever I see draft gender separation just so they know how disappointed I am.

ZebraOwl Thu 16-May-13 22:24:05

YANBU & the crocodile jammies are awesome.

WRT gender-neutral clothing, it's worth checking out Threadless for t-shirts. You look for designs you like, no choice of tshirt colour & no boys/girls. (They do divide adult wear into "guys" & "girly" but that's sizes not designs so am more inclined to forgive them.) The limited print runs can be annoying & if you live outside the US it's worth waiting for offers on international postage - & checking which designs are in the lower price bands/waiting for one of their pretty-frequent sales.

The whole Pink Is For Girls thing has apparently been dinned into some people so hard they think it applies to animals too. Thankfully, no-one's told the animals, so Mr Nijinsky is very happy with his pink food&water dish. Seriously, though: "I thought both your cats were boys" "um, yes, they are" "so why's one of them got a pink bowl then?" There are no words.

IneedAsockamnesty Thu 16-May-13 22:26:05

Passme,

Boys can play with any toys no matter what colour they are

Girls can also play with any toys no matter what colour they are.

I wouldn't bat an eyelid at a girl playing with a fire engine or a dinosaur nor at a boy playing with a tiny tears or a pink ladybug pram.

Surely the whole point of not pushing certain things on girls or boys is that all toys are just toys and all colours are just colours and can be used by all children.

IneedAsockamnesty Thu 16-May-13 22:26:55

But yep an iron in my house would be weird as well.

LadyBeagleEyes Thu 16-May-13 22:29:31

Yes, Op was very restrained,Gallicgirl, she said nothing to a minimum wage Tesco employee who was trying to be helpful.
Good for her.

SarahAndFuck Thu 16-May-13 22:34:57

I want those Boden Tiger pyjamas - for me.

WafflyVersatile Thu 16-May-13 22:47:34

Last time I was shopping for a newborn it was all 'mummy's little princess' for girls and 'daddy's little monster' for boys. Expectations of behaviour already set out from day one. sad

Passmethecrisps Thu 16-May-13 22:49:03

Also has dibs on tiger jammies.

socks couldn't agree more. I am letting myself fall into a bit of a 'she can have what ever toy she likes as kind as it falls into my idea of appropriate even if the intention was good.

We will just have to wait and see!

StuntGirl Fri 17-May-13 00:27:09

I am currently wearing tiger jammies right now and they are my favourite pyjamas grin

MyShoofly Fri 17-May-13 00:39:35

YADNBU...before we knew what gender we were having For DS1, I did the nursary up in a friendly dragon theme - all kinds of people commented how boy-specific it was. How sad...dragons are fun....surely they should be fun for boys and girls alike?

I don't mind dolls and pink and such but find it horrid that toy/departement stores are gender divided...it limits our boys as well as our daughters.

showtunesgirl Fri 17-May-13 00:48:48

It's odd really isn't it how people think that certain clothing should be gender specific.

DD's favourite coat is her Gruffalo coat and everyone always thinks that she is a boy when she's wearing it. Why can't there be female Gruffaloes? After all, how did the Gruffalo's Child (who is a girl) come about? grin

ZebraOwl Fri 17-May-13 00:50:50

(On a side note, am v annoyed Mini Boden no longer comes up to age 14. Johnnie B is more expensive & less awesome: I want the giraffe PJs! Actually, I wonder if the boys' sizes come up bigger than the girls' do...)

When my niece was very wee (she's v nearly 2y7m so still wee, but a very leggy thing) my sister & I were very annoyed all the Tigger stuff was aimed at boys. And people got weirdy over a girl being in Awesome Tigger Onesies. Apparently they don't know that Piglet's a boy too...

claremp7 Fri 17-May-13 04:34:24

I love this thread.
My problem and I can see it already even though DD is only twelve weeks old is going to be the IL's.
They have an obsession that she is only allowed dolls and "girly" toys. No lego, football or nerf guns are allowed for her.
My and her are sport mad and football mad but apparently she's not going to be!
Well excuse me but my little girl can be whatever she wants to be. If that means a house full of pinkification then that's fine but equally bring on the cars and lego.
Why do our children have to fit in certain boxes?!
I have to admit though I have bought her a few pink girly dresses but she also looks very cute in her jeans and t shirt from "boys" section!

DD-just-2 is living in checked flannelette shirts and plain dark jeans with lacky-sided boots, with her lovely curly soft hair in two pigtails.
I'm constantly asked why my 'little man' <boak> "hasn't had his hair cut, he looks like a girl"
Their faces when I reply " [hmmm] that's because she is a girl..." Are both insulting and priceless.

Pink stinks.

DBro pulls it off better than any girl I've seen, anyway.

edwardsmum11 Fri 17-May-13 09:15:10

I get my 20mth old son the peppa pig onesies from asda... I don't see the issue.

KatAndKit Fri 17-May-13 09:19:26

I don't have time to read the whole thread so i apologize if someone else has pointed this out but....

Half of all crocodiles must surely be female?! Same with dogs, dinosaurs, and also half of all cats must be male?

Tingalingle Fri 17-May-13 09:27:48

How I regret the demise of the KidsStuff clothing company.

No boy/girl nonsense from them, everything in the catalogue (possibly barring the skirts? can't remember if they had any) was shown on boys, girls and often teddy bears alike -- we have some great pics of DD and both DSs in sheep, fish, rainbow stripy and dinosaur PJs with a teddy wearing teeny matching ones.

Some of their PJs did all three children without looking threadbare.
Presumably that's why they went out of business, come to think of it -- nothing ever, ever wore out...

Tingalingle Fri 17-May-13 09:29:00

KitKat -- actually if I'm remembering correctly, crocodiles change sex depending on hatching temperature...

MiaowTheCat Fri 17-May-13 09:29:25

DD1 has had (mainly from Mothercare as I love their animal pjs) - Ladybirds, Giraffes, and Tiger pyjamas recently... while I don't like the crocodile ones pictured just cos of the style of them - I'd have no objection at all to buying her some if I found some really cute ones.

Get sick to death of her being mistaken for a bloody boy at the moment though - she was wearing a flowery hand-knitted cardigan, a snoopy dress and leggings the other day - hardly the most masculine of outfits... but because the outfit was blue I got told a fair few times what a lovely little boy she was! She doesn't wear much pink, especially pale pink - she doesn't suit it - and I like strong colours - but it does grate when she's wearing dresses yet still getting mistaken for a boy because they're in bright red or green or whatever.

FreudiansSlipper Fri 17-May-13 09:32:25

that would piss me off

i have a ds and although i am aware of the gender stereot types there seems to be far more pressure on young girls to look and act a certain way

Stinkyminkymoo Fri 17-May-13 09:41:06

I'm sure she was just trying to be helpful, but since when was a mother incapable of buying her own children's clothes?

What has society come to now that girls can only wear pink sparkly shit?

Annoys me no end angry

FreudiansSlipper Fri 17-May-13 09:43:25

pinkstinks is a great website smile

StuckOnARollercoaster Fri 17-May-13 09:57:01

I want to post as I feel like I'm with kindred spirits here. Baby not yet born and so much indignation from family that we didn't find out the sex because 'how will we know what to buy'
I saw the cutest little socks in yellows, oranges, blues and greens with little cars and trucks on them. Apparently if we have a girl they can never be used.
I did challenge and got back the view that when people look in the pram they'll make the wrong assumption about the sex - big deal I am perfectly capable of answering the question about the sex or correcting them if they've made the wrong assumption.
I can see many battles ahead so no doubt you'll see me on here in years to come! Plus on eBay selling toys and clothes that have been worn once, photo taken then inexplicably got ruined and disappeared grin

I find it weird that adults seem to classify colours as "boy" or "girls" when they are just colours. I mean, yellow for a girl and green for boys, when adult clothes will feature both colours for either sex.

And it seems more prevalent here in Britain than on the continent. DD went to Germany in March and came back with a lovely emerald green dress and green high heeled shoes. (3.5 inch high heels when she's still not quite 13 - her dad nearly had a heart attack when he saw them grin. I told him he'd lost that battle before it ever started.)

OrangeFootedScrubfowl Fri 17-May-13 13:50:51

I've just had a boy after a girl. My neighbour just had a girl after a boy. She's been round and given me all her blue blankets and blue baby towels. She's even got rid of white things lined with blue.

Kind, but mad. I do not understand why anyone would think their DD couldn't be dried by a blue towel? Why ever not?

OxfordBags Fri 17-May-13 18:53:05

It would turn their clitoris into a penis, that's why not, you fool!

girliefriend Fri 17-May-13 19:24:17

grin at Oxford.

Was thinking about this thread earlier as bought dd some muller corner yogurts (as a treat) they are a new range and have pink and white heart shaped biscuits for girls and brown and white biscuits for boys confused
really ?!

<faints at the gender madness>

MiaowTheCat Fri 17-May-13 19:26:31

By the way - our local Tesco had the crocodile PJs of notoriety reduced today.

MrsDWinchester Fri 17-May-13 19:31:25

It seems the marketing has convinced loads of the population that girls can only use pink and boys blue. At least here on MN there are people who don't listen to that rubbish.

My girls quite happily play with what some people would consider to only be "boys toys". They have their blue lego tubs, their plastic bow and arrows and plastic swords.

They are also obsessed with Star Wars. They have their Star Wars quilt cover and their blue Lego quilt cover. I have had some comments but at the end of the day, children like what they like and you can't force things on them.

I'd rather they be happy than be forced to have something just because it is considered to be the way society wants.

ShadowStorm Fri 17-May-13 22:09:15

YANBU.

I'd find that very annoying too. The funny thing is that it seems to be perfectly fine and unremarkable for adult women to dress from head to toe in blue, or for adult men to wear pink shirts.

It's fine in itself for a little girl to like wearing pink or a little boy to like wearing blue, but it does seem like it's forced upon you because of the vast amount of colour coded children's clothes.

EatenByZombies Sun 19-May-13 01:33:00

I want a set - those pyjamas are fab grin

EatenByZombies Sun 19-May-13 01:33:42

Also, in the very early 20th century, pink was actually a "boyish" colour!

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