Note: Please bear in mind that whilst this topic does canvass opinions, it is not a fight club. You may disagree with other posters but we do ask you please to stick to our Talk Guidelines and to be civil. We don't allow personal attacks or troll-hunting. Do please report any. Thanks, MNHQ.

to expect my neighbours not to park across my driveway?

(285 Posts)
coldwater Wed 15-May-13 08:43:05

We have our car parked on our drive, it has a drop curb too. Our neighbours have FOUR cars and a commercial work van, they can only fit two cars on their drive so park the other three vehicles on the road, usually with one parked right across my drive. It annoys the hell out of me, its not like they can't see we have a car and its not like i haven't asked them before not to do it.

We don't have a very good past with these neighbours, them doing DIY until 11pm (drilling etc) and waking my kids up, dog being left out for hours in the snow yelping (which i reported), her teenage children trespassing into my back garden and breaking the trellis i put up to stop them doing it and many more things. I had a row with the mum over the DIY, i asked her to stop and she got stroppy saying she could do what she wanted. I have never mentioned the fact i have caught her kids in my garden though.

Anyway, this morning i woke to one of their cars being parked across my drive, i went mad and said i was going round there, dp said just leave it, i am over-reacting. Am i? I now can't use the car today because the man who owns it has gone to work and surprise surprise has the key with him. So annoyed, selfish idiots they are. So AIBU thinking they should use their brains and not park over someones drive and block them in?

Yes i know i could park on the road, never any space thanks to these that think they own the road and i don't want to because of the teens that hang around outside all night getting up to no good.

cornypedicure Wed 15-May-13 08:44:00

are you blocked in? will the police move it?

flanbase Wed 15-May-13 08:44:39

It's your access to your parking. Is it an official parking? If so then call the police and get their vehicle removed

If you can't go out as they've blocked you in call 101, ask a pcso to ticket for obstruction

trixymalixy Wed 15-May-13 08:45:09

The police will move it if he has blocked you in.

DeepRedBetty Wed 15-May-13 08:45:57

I believe the vehicle is causing an obstruction and the police can contact the owner and ask them to move it.

trice Wed 15-May-13 08:46:05

Will they not get a parking ticket? I didn't think you could park on a dropped curb.

alienbanana Wed 15-May-13 08:46:14

Yep, 101 - causing an obstruction.

Is your drive an official dropped kerb?

Jengnr Wed 15-May-13 08:49:49

Call the police.

GingerBlondecat Wed 15-May-13 08:54:16

Yup. Police, gettem towed too.

IDontDoIroning Wed 15-May-13 08:56:52

AFAIK it is an offence to block access off a drive to the road but not the reverse.
Ring the police.

coldwater Wed 15-May-13 08:59:14

Yes the dropped curb is an official dropped curb, it is joint to their one next door, so like one big dropped curb and our drive is a proper hard standing drive that we had permission to install from the council. Yes he has parked right over it and blocked our car, there is no way we could get it out unless i rip my hedge up and go across their empty drive! He parks over it all the time and has never received a ticket before. I think i'll give 101 a call then, i weren't sure on where i stood with this. Thanks.

MonstrousPippin Wed 15-May-13 09:02:35

A friend of mine came to my house to stay the night and unknowingly to me parked across a neighbour's driveway. We woke up to his car being towed away by the Police so I know this works. Call the Police every time they do it Op - hopefully that will send them the message. After all, you could claim you didn't have any option - you had to get out.

Thankfully because it was an unknown car, the neighbours didn't know the parked car was anything to do with me! Although to be fair, I'd have told him to move it if I'd known what he'd done. He was a bit of twonk to do that and it taught him a lesson!

DontmindifIdo Wed 15-May-13 09:06:27

Call 101. Get it moved or ticketed. Selfish people will never change their behaviour in order to benefit someone else, but to avoid getting their car towed or ticketed they might.

hedgehogpickle Wed 15-May-13 09:17:23

Agree with all above - call police & keep doing so every time your neighbours do it. What if you had to get out in an emergency?!

Sugarice Wed 15-May-13 09:17:50

Why should you park on the road, you have a drive.

As others have said call the authorities and stop these twats thinking they can do whatever they like!

They do sound very wankerish and anti social, hope things are resolved regarding the drive way.

orangepudding Wed 15-May-13 09:20:41

Agree with calling the police. I'm sure they won't do it again if you do.

Chocoflump Wed 15-May-13 09:22:48

You definitely shouldn't have to park on the road just because of this wanker. Get him towed!!

Tiredmumno1 Wed 15-May-13 09:24:20

I agree with everyone else, get him towed. I can't stand inconsiderate people like that. There is no need for it.

Good luck.

Manyofhorror3 Wed 15-May-13 09:31:27

Oh yes and please update

verygentlydoesit Wed 15-May-13 09:31:46

There's often two sides to these type of disputes. NOT in this case though.

How dare he block you in? I don't know what you had planned for your day OP, god forbid it was something really important or that you couldn't get to work and in if doing risked your job.

I'm shocked that someone would deliberately do this. Take a photo, call 101 each time.

Inconsiderate parking makes my blood boil.

I think I need to go online and find some nice and calming videos of kittens having read this.

Let me know if you want me to share my findings.

<sigh>

Tiredmumno1 Wed 15-May-13 09:35:42

Quint that would be great, it might calm us all down grin

YoniMatopoeia Wed 15-May-13 09:35:46

Yes call 101.

3MenAndMe Wed 15-May-13 09:40:27

Never mind what are you plans,call the cops...
In case of emergency you will be stuck...
I am not sure but maybe there is something that council will help with(sign on the road,double yellow or similar????)

DeskPlanner Wed 15-May-13 09:43:33

This is driving me mad on your behalf. Ring 101 get the bugger towed. But please come back and update.

MrsSpagBol Wed 15-May-13 09:44:42

^^

What Deskplanner said. I am completely invested now. Please report back.

YoniOneWayOfLife Wed 15-May-13 09:45:26

What did 101 say?

THERhubarb Wed 15-May-13 09:50:37

I think they are doing it deliberately. They know you don't like them and they are clearly getting enjoyment from antagonising you.

If their vehicle is towed however, the joke will truly be on them and they will certainly not do it again, they may however decide that war is on.

Yes to calling the police but I think you might need to take further action in order to stop this from escalating. Your local council should have a local neighbourhood officer. Call them and ask to speak to them. Mediation services can work wonders in these cases. You get to set your case down and they get a chance to response. Hopefully it will clear the air and your lives should become more peaceful as a result. It really is worth doing because once they realise their car has been towed, they'll know it was you and they may well go all out to make your lives hell.

SparkyTGD Wed 15-May-13 09:51:12

YANBU

Did you ask them to move the van? I know you shouldn't have to, they shouldn't park there anyway but I'd definitely ask first before calling police.

Tiredmumno1 Wed 15-May-13 09:57:26

grin Thanks quint

Those cats were so cute

IvorHughJarse Wed 15-May-13 09:59:01

Trufact: Tis an offence to prevent someone being able to access the highway (i.e., to block your car into your drive).

It is not an offence to prevent someone being able to access their driveway (i.e., to block your drive when you're not on it, so you can't park there upon return).

Madness. Your neighbours sound like cocks.

StealthOfficialCrispTester Wed 15-May-13 09:59:15

Lurking for update hooe you get sorted op

Patchouli Wed 15-May-13 10:04:11

Also lurking: looking forward to hear that the selfish idiot gets towed out of the way.

Flicktheswitch Wed 15-May-13 10:08:47

OP are you not worried about any retaliation? X

SavoyCabbage Wed 15-May-13 10:09:18

This this used to happen to us, and the police didn't do a thing.

Purple2012 Wed 15-May-13 10:58:29

Def ring 101. If you can't get out is obstruction. If you can't get in it isn't.

TidyDancer Wed 15-May-13 11:01:10

God yes, definitely police. Any chance the car isn't taxed and you can get them that way as well?

SooticaTheWitchesCat Wed 15-May-13 11:02:08

Phone the police. This happened to me once so I called and said I needed to get out. They came within half an hour and towed the car away.

NynaevesSister Wed 15-May-13 11:03:49

Let us know how you get on. Their car can be towed if it is blocking your car on the drive.

If they block the drive when your car isn't on it then they get a parking ticket.

Also if they park right up close to the very edge of the drive they can get a ticket.

You need to call parking enforcement at your council though as they may not check residential streets.

OddBoots Wed 15-May-13 11:05:43

Oh I do hope the police do come and ticket them, blocking you in then going away with the keys is beyond being annoying, it is completely unacceptable.

cq Wed 15-May-13 11:06:58

FWIW, I think I've read somewhere that if there is no car in the drive, it is not an offence to park across it. But if there is a car in there you cannot park and block them in.

What if you had a medical emergency FFS?

GlassofRose Wed 15-May-13 11:09:31

I hate this!

My lovely neighbours next door but one moved beginning of year. The people who have moved in have two cars and a fleet of mini vans. They kept parking mini vans in front of my house and across my drive and leaving cars/vans outside my house or the house opposite for week at a time so I asked if they could park them outside their own home (because there always happens to be a space there hmm ) and now they make sure they leave their car permanently outside my home with enough room for drive so I can't say it can't be used. There's a bloody 5 cars worth of space at the end of the road (which is just past my drive).

You're not unreasonable OP... but these people don't seem to be capable of reasoning.

THERhubarb Wed 15-May-13 11:19:23

Recipe:

Get one large potato.
Insert potato as far up exhaust pipe as it will go, making sure it is nicely and firmly jammed in.
Leave the area and wait.

Result:

One car which will not work. At all. The car may well be taken to pieces before anyone discovers the cause of the mysterious breakdown. By that time a fortune will have been spent at the garage.

Disclaimer:

You did not hear this from me.

Other disclaimer:

Do make sure it's properly wedged in, with a broom handle if you can.

Make sure you follow Rhubs advice, but not when the car is blocking you in.

Or actually forget that. Do it before it is towed, so they wont even be able to drive it out of the car pound!! grin

It will cost them dearly every day it is at the pound! grin

<evil cackle>

Hullygully Wed 15-May-13 11:24:31

utter cunts

CSIJanner Wed 15-May-13 11:24:32

Pet hate which happens to me as well . CQ has it correct though - if the car wasn't in the drive, you wouldn't be ale to complain on 101.

I do like THERhubarb's solution though - in a hypothetical way of course.

Has PCSO turned up yet?

Sugarice Wed 15-May-13 11:25:39

Come back OP, I do like to hear when parking twats have that self entitled smirk wiped off their smug faces. grin

Cluffyflump Wed 15-May-13 11:26:02

Thanks quint.
I've just lost half an hour watching you tube because of you!

Hope the police make your dickhead neibour move their car, Coldwater.
What toss-pots angry

SerBrienne Wed 15-May-13 11:26:54

I hope you update us with good news, OP.

Whatever happens with the police today, maybe it would be sensible (if galling) to park across your own drive in future, so that you can't be blocked in - at least on occasions when you know you HAVE to use the car.

CSIJanner Wed 15-May-13 11:27:21

From Waltham Forest council, but you get the gist...

^Obstructing any vehicle crossover or other dropped kerb is unlawful therefore the Council’s Civil Enforcement Officers can issue a penalty. Once a penalty has been issued the vehicle may also be towed away.

For a dropped kerb serving a single property entrance, enforcement is normally carried out only when the occupant reports an obstruction as we would not want to penalise residents wishing to park across their own entrances.

Alternatively the Council can take enforcement action against any vehicle found obstructing your vehicle crossover if you request it in writing. If you decide to do this please note you are waiving your own right to park across this dropped kerb since our Civil Enforcement Officers will be instructed to penalise any vehicles they find there either during routine patrols or if a request is received. In the event that you move away we request that you either advise new occupiers of this arrangement or cancel it by writing to us again.^

Report the inconsiderate barstools.

Mwah. Ha. Har!

I hate, hate, hate inconsiderate parking and this thread is giving me the rage on the op's behalf.

LazyMonkeyButler Wed 15-May-13 11:29:57

I'm also hooked now, please come back and update. No work will be done here until I know the outcome grin, with photos if possible.

ALittleBitOfMagic Wed 15-May-13 11:33:59

Just read and now shamelessly marking my place to see what op has done grin

GreenLeafTea Wed 15-May-13 12:00:17

I think the OP got in a ruck with the neighbours and has been arrested.

WandaDoff Wed 15-May-13 12:06:05

She's probably been arrested because the police turned up while she was ramming a potato up the exhaust pipe & caught her red handed grin

Sugarice Wed 15-May-13 12:18:58

I wonder if it was a King Edward or Rooster! wink

Hmm, 3 hours and 19 minutes since she last posted < drums fingers on desk and sips coffee >

ChaoticTranquility Wed 15-May-13 12:34:48

OP where are you?

marciaoverstrand Wed 15-May-13 12:40:13

I would ram the cheeky fuckers tbh! I get the rage when idiots park over the white lines in front of my drive.
I have been known to move my car and park right up their arse so they can't reverse, happy dayssmile

DowntonTrout Wed 15-May-13 12:43:12

Cheeky bastards! I love a good perking thread.

< no help whatsoever!>

DowntonTrout Wed 15-May-13 12:44:07

Perking???? Parking!

Thank god it didn't say Porking!

Bonkerz Wed 15-May-13 12:48:16

I actually had this the other day but car was blocking me getting in. Neighbour was being very aggressive so I rang non emergency police. Operator said pcso couldn't come out because I wasn't blocked IN but then she heard neighbour yelling that he pays his taxes and can park anywhere and said she would happily dispatch a pcso just to tell the neighbour to go read the Highway Code!!!!!!!!! He did actually move while I was on phone so no police needed but PCSO rang me back and had a chuckle with me........... He hasn't done it since!!!!

coldwater Wed 15-May-13 12:55:35

Sorry it has taken so long to reply, i had to walk to the shops to get some grocery's.

Anyway, i rang 101 before i went out, they said they would send someone, i came back and the car is gone! Now i'm like shock. I feel bad now. Oh well, not much i can do about it now, at least i can use my car this afternoon.

SayMama Wed 15-May-13 12:58:09

Hope you're looking for a potato OP!

BlueberryHill Wed 15-May-13 12:58:22

You shouldn't feel bad, they shouldn't have been ignorant, arrogant, anti social sods. They caused it, however if I were you I might pretend to be out later....

Love a good parking thread, it really gets me mad.

digerd Wed 15-May-13 12:58:29

Pity the law isn't for inward access too confused.

NynaevesSister Wed 15-May-13 12:59:32

They might have come while you were out. Either way parking enforcement or PCOS will walk down the street. This will hopefully be a visible reminder for your neighbour.

coldwater Wed 15-May-13 13:00:34

Oh i don't care if she or he, or any of them come knocking. Quite inclined to admit it was me. lol She pulled me up about reporting her about the dog being left out in the snow yelping for hours, i told her it was me. They will know its me anyway. I guess i had the last laugh this time. lol

Do you think it was towed that quickly? that would be impressive!
Is there someone in the house? perhaps they just knocked and asked them to move it?

coldwater Wed 15-May-13 13:06:13

I don't know, the PCOS base is just up the road from this estate so who knows. Don't want to ring to find out. lol

I hope they did tow it [vindictive on your behalf]

BlackeyedSusan Wed 15-May-13 13:08:16

what time do the neighbours get home?

chansondumatin Wed 15-May-13 13:10:17

Can you see the car anywhere else in the street OP? <hopes it's been towed>

coldwater Wed 15-May-13 13:10:39

From about 3pm they start to get home, the family consist of mum, dad, nan, 3 sons in their 20's and two teens.

LazyMonkeyButler Wed 15-May-13 13:11:25

Now, if the PCSO had just knocked & someone had moved the car, presumably it would be visible either on their drive or elsewhere on the road. Can you see the car OP? If not, it could have been towed grin <evilly hoping that is the case>

GoofyIsACow Wed 15-May-13 13:11:43

Just seen this thread, how annoying, good on you OP smile

Livvylongpants Wed 15-May-13 13:12:50

marking my place! keep us informed

atrcts Wed 15-May-13 13:15:17

This happened to me one day when my child was sick and I needed to go and buy some calpol. I called the police and rather than tow the vehicle away they contacted the driver though the licence plate. He had to scamper back and remove it immediately! So they might have called your neighbour and instructed them to move the illegal obstruction.

coldwater Wed 15-May-13 13:16:36

I certainly didn't notice the car in the street on the way home but i wasn't really looking because i didn't know it was moved until i was nearer to my house. Just looked out the upstairs window and can't see the car anywhere.

LazyMonkeyButler Wed 15-May-13 13:18:14

I certainly didn't notice the car in the street on the way home but i wasn't really looking because i didn't know it was moved until i was nearer to my house. Just looked out the upstairs window and can't see the car anywhere

grin

EglantinePrice Wed 15-May-13 13:19:36

I love to see a quick (good) result on AIBU!

chansondumatin Wed 15-May-13 13:19:38

Sounds like it's been towed then. How unfortunate grin

Tiredmumno1 Wed 15-May-13 13:19:58

Is it really bad that I wish so bad it's been towed? grin

Bakingtins Wed 15-May-13 13:20:52

<fingers crossed> hope it has been towed! How bloody dare they?

ohbuggerhelp Wed 15-May-13 13:22:16

marking place grin

melika Wed 15-May-13 13:22:38

Good for you Coldwater you have the courage to stand up to those inconsiderate neighbours. I only hope you can get on in the future or this could be a long running saga.

THERhubarb Wed 15-May-13 13:22:43

How did you know that the owner had gone to work and had the key with him? Did you knock and ask them to move it this morning?

Again I think this is all deliberately being done to annoy you. If PCSO did knock and they have moved the car, then they had the key with them all along.

If no-one is at home then it's likely that the PCSO did knock, didn't get a reply and has either managed to contact them through their DVLA details or has indeed had the car towed.

I do hope it's the latter. They would have a notice posted through their letterbox if it was. I can't see it happening that quick though.

Either way, the PCSO has contacted them and would have made them fully aware of the law so I doubt they'll do it again. I also doubt that this is the end to your problems OP.

good on you. i would phone 101 every time they do it.

no way should they be parking you in. bloody cheek!

IrritatingInfinity Wed 15-May-13 13:24:55

Wow, what awful nieghbours. shock

Be prepared for if they call around. Maybe, you should video or record any visits just in case.

kungfupannda Wed 15-May-13 13:25:13

Why do people think it's ok to do this?

There's a mum at DS1's pre-school who does this outside the school, usually partly over a drive in an attempt to get about 2 feet closer to the school, but the other day, while I was talking to someone by my car, she came up behind and just parked completely over someone's drive and then got out and wandered into the school.

We were both like this shock

She is a bit odd generally though - lets doors go in people's faces and cuts in front of people waiting to sign their child out or speak to the carers. Maybe she's just more important than the rest of us. grin

DontMeanToBeRudeBut Wed 15-May-13 13:26:50

I hope it got towed. Horrible people like this deserve to be fined daily until they become reasonable human beings.

LeaveTheBarSteward Wed 15-May-13 13:28:59

Fab, please update again when they realise their car has been towed.

chansondumatin Wed 15-May-13 13:32:18

Yes please keep us updated OP. Spot of DIY for you this evening, perhaps? grin

THERhubarb Wed 15-May-13 13:36:16

You know when they have their washing out? It would be an awful shame if you happened to light your BBQ then or burn your garden waste.

Oh dear, I appear to be encouraging this neighbourhood war to develop..... grin

DeafLeopard Wed 15-May-13 13:40:30

Result! Well done OP, actually that reminds me of something that happened this morning but I will NC so as not to out myself.

Tiredmumno1 Wed 15-May-13 13:40:51

Rhubarb, I could so with some of your expertise as well grin you could start a new business grin

Blatherskite Wed 15-May-13 13:44:24

Hooray for getting the car moved.

I really hope they don't retaliate.

coffeeinbed Wed 15-May-13 13:45:30

They left a dog out in the snow?
shock
<<misses point of thread entirely>>

ophelia275 Wed 15-May-13 13:46:45

Either they were told to move it or the council moved it. I would think the council would be quite pleased to move it as it would be towed and there would be a hefty fee to get it released (when my OH parked on a yellow line and got our car towed it cost us £250 to get it released!). Nice little earner for the council and frees your driveway to boot.

toffeelolly Wed 15-May-13 13:53:48

Cannot wait till 3.00pmgrin .

Manyofhorror3 Wed 15-May-13 14:57:09

What's happening at 3?

Everyone is getting home at 3pm.

PeterParkerSays Wed 15-May-13 15:00:38

Manyofhorror - the "family who can't park" start to get home and will realise their car has gone grin

Hamwidge Wed 15-May-13 15:04:05

If I were you op I would feign ignorance when the neighbours come round. I'd be worried about them trying to get a bit of revenge and things escalating.

<remembers psycho neighbours fondly>

But good for you for reporting them!

Manyofhorror3 Wed 15-May-13 15:06:21

Fantastico! Am so loving this! I love a "live" thread!

SwishSwoshSwoosh Wed 15-May-13 15:10:42

Am I correct it is not yet known if the car has been removed or just moved by the owner?

I await updates then!

GoSuckEggs Wed 15-May-13 15:12:02

fingers crossed it ha been towed!!!

TerrysNo2 Wed 15-May-13 15:12:34

OP, can you hook up your phone and provide us with a live feed. I personally want to see:

- the confused look when they realise the car isn't there and;
- the realisation;
- the knock on OPs door

I hate inconsiderate parkers!

grin

TerrysNo2 are you really my Number 2? Because, if so, you could PM me updates on this thread whilst I lie around. Just saying. grin

Tiredmumno1 Wed 15-May-13 15:16:42

grin MrsTerry

Tiredmumno1 Wed 15-May-13 15:17:29

<looks around for Tiredmumno2>

grin

If you are Tired you really need a No2.

TerrysNo2 Wed 15-May-13 15:20:07

No, sorry MrsPratchett I am actually related to the man who makes those chocolate oranges. Can't be done I'm afraid

Tiredmumno1 Wed 15-May-13 15:20:15

I'm looking, I'm looking grin

Intermission until OP returns with update.

I'll be round with the choc ices, Poppets and Kia-ora in a mo.

<< dons pinny and cap >>

Groovee Wed 15-May-13 15:21:22

Oh I remember when I worked in a small primary school, 2 police officers appeared during the song practice looking for Mrs So and So. Was a child in my class's mum (unusual name) and he didn't know where she was but she'd parked over someone's drive. She came back at pick up time and was screaming that her car had been stolen. It was quite funny to watch the deputy head telling her it had been towed. That cost her around £160 to get it released.

coldwater Wed 15-May-13 15:23:10

I was just coming in from picking up the DC from school, the mother pulls up in the car, gets out, SLAMS the car door, gives me a dirty look and storms indoors muttering under her breathe. Was going to ask her if the car was towed or was she called back from work to move it. lol But thought i'd better not. wink

Tiredmumno1 Wed 15-May-13 15:23:34

Thanks talc (can't believe I actually clicked on that and listened for a bit) grin I was hoping my poppets would be here before the end grin

Manyofhorror3 Wed 15-May-13 15:23:54

Ha! She won't do that again in a hurry!

I'll take ANY amount of Chocolate Oranges as payment for the confusion. While I wait, be a dear TerrysNo2 and fetch me one of Talcs choc ices.

Can you tell I'm bored waiting for the OP to return with missives.

Tiredmumno1 Wed 15-May-13 15:24:55

That's great coldwater grin don't forget to keep us updated with future developments wink

Ooooo. X-posted. Muttering, eh? Bad sign.

coldwater Wed 15-May-13 15:25:49

Is it bad that i actually laughed out loud at her with a strop on?! 1-0 to me it is then! grin

soverylucky Wed 15-May-13 15:27:27

Whilst I hope very much it was towed I don't think it was because it seems they did it quite quick if they did and I am not used to things being that efficient.

I think they may do this again - love a live thread. Anyone remember the one where the people were living in a car opposite a MNer?

IrritatingInfinity Wed 15-May-13 15:28:06

OP

Please don't forget about us over the next few weeks, we really need to know whether the neighbours have been scared off for good.

coldwater Wed 15-May-13 15:30:52

I am sure there will be many tales to share! lol Them annoying me and me getting wound up has been going on since 2009.

Just last weekend i caught their drunk teenager running through my back garden (had come through my unlocked side gate) at 7am to climb over the fence, only in his massive rush to not get caught he fell up the garden steps. I stood in my kitchen roaring with laughter. That will teach him to do it again!

Now Available in the Foyer: Pick 'n' Mix, hot dogs, exorbitantly-priced post mix soft drinks and cardboard triangles slathered in red stuff. Oh, nachos - sorry.

TheCraicDealer Wed 15-May-13 15:31:12

I hope this is the end of it, but something tells me this won't end here. These things tend to escalate quite quickly..... Try not to smirk and be smug, much as you're tempted. They'll sit and plot how to get back at you and it could all get very unpleasant very quickly.

Footface Wed 15-May-13 15:35:24

Am I getting this right, your neighbour blocked your car in, then went to work? Seriously!

LemonBreeland Wed 15-May-13 15:38:56

Hopefully it will make them think twice about doing that again.

orangepudding Wed 15-May-13 15:50:02

Hope it taught them a lesson!

Could you set a sprinkler system in your garden to switch on when the teenagers walk across it?

PeterParkerSays Wed 15-May-13 15:52:08

Is putting up a sign in your front window "cars may be towed if they are parked blocking this drive" a little too much? grin grin

Practice your big grin and cheery wave OP.

DeskPlanner Wed 15-May-13 16:06:42

Brilliant. Well done op. Please come back and let us know any more developments.

LOL well done OP. Can't wait for the next installment. Who's got the popcorn?

Tiredmumno1 Wed 15-May-13 16:17:44

<hides empty popcorn box under chair> blush

PeterParkerSays Wed 15-May-13 16:28:09

No popcorn but I can have a bash and it would be at playing the piano during the exciting bits grin

Aren't we lucky it stays light so late into the evening so the action of their "D"H getting home won't be hidden from us by the cloak of darkness?

marjproops Wed 15-May-13 16:51:08

yep, by the sounds of them theyll be plotting revenge, even though you were completely in the right to call 101.

listen out for all night barking dog, loud music, diy...and thats just tonight. they sound like right nobs.

and if they own 4 cars they can afford to move to the middle of nowhere.

watch out for scratches/paint/dog mess/graffiti on your car/property now OP, sorry but this just may happen, and the f**** get away with it.

youarewinning Wed 15-May-13 17:00:54

Ha ha ha ha - brilliant grin

Well done you!!

I just love it when adults strop - you would have thought by now they have learnt they can't always have their own way/ just do as they please. hmm

marjproops Wed 15-May-13 17:03:42

the poster who suggested sprinklers in the garden was a good idea! thatd stop them. and cant you get them for trespassing for that?

CerealMom Wed 15-May-13 17:33:57
LeaveTheBarSteward Wed 15-May-13 20:12:41

Will they have to pay to get it back? I'm so proud of you op, keep up the good work.

SugarPasteGreyhound Wed 15-May-13 20:21:00

I love a good parking thread

<settles in>

WandaDoff Wed 15-May-13 21:00:13

Do you mean that the neighbour came back in the car?

maddening Wed 15-May-13 21:31:39

wow well done op! Now you have to keep it up as I bet there will be more occurrences - these people are bullies and you have challenged their assumed authority !

toffeelolly Wed 15-May-13 22:00:24

You did well today girlwink

coldwater Thu 16-May-13 05:26:59

oops my post was reported, i wonder if my neighbour found it and realised it was about them. lol Or someone has way too much time on their hands. hmm

Yeah the mother came back in the car.

TerrysNo2 Thu 16-May-13 07:37:02

why was it reported confused

CSIJanner Thu 16-May-13 07:39:48

Well if one one from the family has reported it, at least they now know the teens trespass. Silver lining and all of that

coldwater Thu 16-May-13 07:56:05

It was reported because of a word i wrote in the original post, began with an 'M'. Can't write it down because i'll get told off again. lol

TerrysNo2 Thu 16-May-13 08:00:37

hmmm

mum
mad
man
mentioned

naughty words grin wink

confused

coldwater Thu 16-May-13 08:02:06

It began with an 'M' and ended with an 'N'. Its a word i used to describe my neighbour. lol

Manyofhorror3 Thu 16-May-13 08:06:01

The word that's been swapped for "idiot"? I had no idea it was officially offensive!

TerrysNo2 Thu 16-May-13 08:17:57

ah think I've got it. honestly though, unless it's the actual woman who reported it (sounds like you had good cause to call her that though) some people have too much time on their hands!!

Sugarice Thu 16-May-13 08:20:12

Do you mean the word moron was deleted?

Seriously shock

coldwater Thu 16-May-13 08:26:52

Yes! That 'M' word Sugar.

I had an email saying the word had been removed from my post because someone reported it. I suggest this person takes up a hobby... maybe parking over drives or something. lol

Sugarice Thu 16-May-13 08:30:10

grin Good Grief!

How are things at chez Coldwater this morning?

Any moronic parking by the morons next door? wink

coldwater Thu 16-May-13 08:36:15

lol No not this morning, i did see her outside when i was waving the kids and dp off this morning. Her and her mother just glared at me but i'm used to that, i just glare back.

PeterParkerSays Thu 16-May-13 09:45:27

No, you don't want to glare. Grin cheerily and shout "morning" to them.

You have the upper hand here.

THERhubarb Thu 16-May-13 10:01:04

"Moron" was coined in 1910 by psychologist Henry H. Goddard[3] from the Ancient Greek word &#956;&#969;&#961;&#972;&#962; (moros), which meant "dull"[4] (as opposed to oxy, which meant "sharp" (see also: oxymoron)), and used to describe a person with a mental age in adulthood of between 8 and 12 on the Binet scale.[5] It was once applied to people with an IQ of 51–70, being superior in one degree to "imbecile" (IQ of 26–50) and superior in two degrees to "idiot" (IQ of 0–25). The word moron, along with others including, "idiotic", "imbecilic", "stupid", and "feeble-minded", was formerly considered a valid descriptor in the psychological community, but it is now deprecated in use by psychologists.[6]

Following opposition to Goddard's attempts to popularize his ideas,[7] Goddard recanted his earlier assertions about the moron: "It may still be objected that moron parents are likely to have imbecile or idiot children. There is not much evidence that this is the case. The danger is probably negligible."[8]

I think Wiki should be reported, don't you? Honestly, talk about treating us like children!

CocktailQueen Thu 16-May-13 10:06:00

You could always borrow a JCB. Park it in your drive. Next time they block you in, DRIVE OVER THEIR CAR. smile

Blatherskite Thu 16-May-13 10:09:17

It's a name too. When I worked for the IT helpdesk of a major high street bank, I was once asked to remove a member of staff's middle name from her account as she was getting ribbed by her colleagues for it.

THERhubarb Thu 16-May-13 10:25:55

Presumably then Blathers she would also be deleted by Mumsnet for having an offensive name.

I find it quite ironic that you can call someone a fuckwitted donkey wanker but you can't call them a moron as somehow being described as a moron is more insulting than being described as someone lacking in wit who enters into sexual relations with a donkey.

IrritatingInfinity Thu 16-May-13 10:37:17

I think the m.... word is a bit off. It is the same as r.....d or s....z. I prefer not to see them. Happy with nearly all other swear words though. Just saying.....

Anyway back to the thread......

Blatherskite Thu 16-May-13 10:44:22

I think it's pronounced Mor-un when it's a name but yes, if she registered with her real name, MN would presumably delete her.

AThingInYourLife Thu 16-May-13 10:45:26

I was really enjoying the "live" thread, excited for 3pm... then suddenly it was 3pm, they were home and I realised that today is Thursday.

grin

It was fun anyway.

Still giggling at THERhubarb's Neighbourhood Spats service grin

DinoSnores Thu 16-May-13 11:19:05

Interested that the word was replaced by "idiot", which, of course, comes from the same classification.

An idiot was defined as someone with a mental age of less than 3 or with an IQ below 30.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot#Disability

I do hope MNHQ are going to be consistent and ensure then that we don't use the word 'idiot' either, or shall we recognise that words change their meanings and significance (in both good and bad directions) over time.

KateSMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 16-May-13 13:19:30

Hi everyone,

Thanks to those who brought this thread to our attention.

Just to explain what happened last night. We edited this sentence in the opening post

"I now can't use the car today because the moron that owns it has gone to work and surprise surprise has the key with him"

to

"I now can't use the car today because the man that owns it has gone to work and surprise surprise has the key with him"

We didn't substitute "idiot" for "moron". We usually posts on threads when we edit something, but we didn't last night, as we didn't want to draw attention to the use of the word moron and make it into a bigger issue than it needed to be.

THERhubarb Thu 16-May-13 13:27:38

So are you now going to edit all the other posts which contain the word 'moron', including your own?

Could we please have a list of acceptable words that can be used on Mumsnet which won't cause offence? Because fuck is obviously ok to use as is donkey wanker. A moronic donkey wanker would presumably need to be deleted in case someone implodes with offence.

ohbuggerhelp Thu 16-May-13 13:32:20

And cunt. That seems to be okay but not moron,. What criteria are you using to ban ?

Manyofhorror3 Thu 16-May-13 13:33:49

What about dragon butter? That's not nice at all.

ohbuggerhelp Thu 16-May-13 13:35:19

So the sentance, " You are a stupid fucking donkey wanking cunt scum" would be changed to , " You are a silly billy fucking donkey wanking cunt scum".

Yep, that's reasonable hmm.

ohbuggerhelp Thu 16-May-13 13:36:04

What about the word stupid? Is that allowed?

KateSMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 16-May-13 13:46:08

We have no problem with people swearing, but we will occasionally delete things that are beyond the pale.

As it says in our guidelines, we will also delete disablist language, which definitely includes terms like moron, mong and retard, and may include others depending on the situation.

We do appreciate that language is context based, with fluid boundaries. We're always happy to discuss our policies and explain why we delete certain posts.

Yddraigoldragon Thu 16-May-13 13:46:29

Moron means carrot in Welsh...

tries to be helpful

SenoritaViva Thu 16-May-13 13:50:56

The M word isn't in my vocabulary usage. Simply could not get the clue word beginning with M ending in N. all I could come up with was MAN. Insulting depending on who you're thinking about I suppose!

Love the idea of calling someone a carrot though (apart from my red haired DS).

THERhubarb Thu 16-May-13 13:52:39

I think we need a list of banned words as we are obviously all too ignorant to be trusted not to offend.

As the word "moron" is generally replaced with the word "idiot", may I suggest you also ban that word as well as "stupid".

Or perhaps a dollop of common sense in realising that the word "moron" has not been used in a disablist context for many years and now merely means "stupid". But then "stupid" can also be used as a disablist word can't it?

I also resent the implication that those of us who have used the word moron were being disablist.

THERhubarb Thu 16-May-13 13:53:58

SenoritaViva if someone called your ds a moron then, they would be 'gingerist'?

Sallyingforth Thu 16-May-13 14:02:37

I had no idea that moron was disablist. If it is then surely brainless must be even more so. Is that banned as well? Where on earth do you draw the line?

StealthOfficialCrispTester Thu 16-May-13 14:07:30

I had no idea that it wasnt tbh. I would put it in the same category as r- - -d etc. I wouldnt use either word (other thab when talkkng about diagnoses maybe) so not an issue

Blatherskite Thu 16-May-13 14:08:48

If the m-word is disablist then surely idiot and imbecile are too?

THERhubarb Thu 16-May-13 14:14:13

Stealth, it wasn't so long ago that retard was used as an acceptable description along with the word "backwards". My brother was described as "mentally retarded" and no-one batted an eyelid.

I never came across the word "moron" in that context. To me it just meant an idiot. I am genuinely flabbergasted that it's seen as a disablist word.

I now daren't use the word "plonker" in case it means that Del Boy was actually disablist shock

coldwater Thu 16-May-13 14:49:36

Fair enough but for someone to go out of their way to report it... I feel like a naughty school kid that has rebelled against the rules. lol

I find swear words, such as the C word much more offensive but would i report a post because of it? No, because i am a grown women and can get over it. Different strokes for different folks and all that.

StealthOfficialCrispTester Thu 16-May-13 14:52:04

Thanks rhubarb. I meeant it genuinely that I wojld have assumed moron was in the same league.
Mental retardation is a diagnosis but completely agree caling someone a shortened version is nlt on

GlassofRose Thu 16-May-13 14:54:51

Deja vu

Completely agree OP. Some people go out of their way to be offended.

THERhubarb Thu 16-May-13 14:55:47

I know Stealth, don't worry. Most of the words I used back in the 80s are now fully non-PC but we didn't know that at the time. These words were in general usage.

I consider myself to be fairly up-to-date on what constitutes an offensive word, disablist or otherwise. Apparently not as MNHQ are the font of all knowledge in this area.

I seriously think we need a list of "Words that Cannot be Used."

coldwater Thu 16-May-13 14:57:54

Yeah i think you're right, GlassofRose. Wonder if they'll own up.

I thought adults were meant to be grown ups, you know if you don't like something don't read it and move on. I'll be a good little girl now, no more M word for me! smacks myself on the hand

StealthOfficialCrispTester Thu 16-May-13 15:07:04

Can I add "pinny" to the list? And "busy mum"?

GlassofRose Thu 16-May-13 15:12:57

It's not like you actually used the word in a way associated with disability; you used it with the same level of offence as idiot. The dictionary likens both moron and cretin as similar words, yet both of those are words originally used to describe individuals with mental disorders.

If somebody says something with intention to offend / malice then I can understand reporting. What ever word you use to describe someone that has pissed you off will offend someone on here. If I don't like a word I just stop reading. It would seem some people are in favour of a big brother world where you tattle on others for minor things rather than ignoring it or openly raising it as an issue.

comingintomyown Thu 16-May-13 15:49:59

Look never mind all that OP have you established if the car was towed away or they drove it away ?

SoupDragon Thu 16-May-13 15:54:19

It's not like you actually used the word in a way associated with disability; you used it with the same level of offence as idiot. The dictionary likens both moron and cretin as similar words, yet both of those are words originally used to describe individuals with mental disorders.

And both are now considered offensive.

SoupDragon Thu 16-May-13 15:55:20

When told a word is offensive, most people with an ounce of empathy and common sense would accept it and move on.

MinnieBar Thu 16-May-13 16:14:11

Mr PotatoHead drops the m-bomb in Toy Story (3, I think).

Disablist carby bastard.

NotActuallyAMum Thu 16-May-13 16:20:52

grin and ROFL at Mr Potato Head being a "disablist carby bastard"

Hilarious grin

NotActuallyAMum Thu 16-May-13 16:21:54

Oh and what comingintomyown said - was the car towed or not??

grimbletart Thu 16-May-13 16:30:07

Hilarious - substituting a word quietly to avoid it becoming a talking point has guaranteed it has become a talking point. Still it's one way of derailing a thread. grin

Lorialet Thu 16-May-13 16:43:50

So, does anyone know what is an acceptable word to describe someone of very little intelligence or common sense?

ohbuggerhelp Thu 16-May-13 16:45:38

Bastard? How unmarriedist! shock

GlassofRose Thu 16-May-13 16:47:55

soupdragon - I never said they weren't considered "now" offensive I said they are listed as alternatives in the thesaurus and not an ancient one either. Funny enough, I googled it and it says the same on wikipedia.

So obviously Mr potato head, Wikipedia and the Collins thesaurus are "disablist". I can't believe disablist is even a real world to be honest, it sounds like such poor English, like one of my nan's made up words.

THERhubarb Thu 16-May-13 16:48:20

SoupDragon on this occasion I have to disagree. You cannot be told to stop using a word just because someone has decided that it is offensive. It's like being told to stop using the word idiot because once, many years ago and unbeknown to most people, the word was used against people with learning difficulties (which I'm damn sure it is).

Where do you draw the line? Most swear words are insulting and can be used against different sets of people. There are many words for "idiot" and yes, some of them relate to people with learning difficulties so should we stop commenting on anyone's ignorance just in case we offend those people with learning difficulties?

I quickly learned that words mean nothing. They are just words. Yes there are some I will never use such as "nigger" and "wog" as those have specific deep meanings, but general usage words do not.

StealthOfficialCrispTester Thu 16-May-13 16:53:47

So are you saying you would use the r word?

conantg Thu 16-May-13 17:00:42

May I suggest the use of Scottish words to prevent any offence? "Bampot" or "stumph" would be a fair description of the neighbour.

GlassofRose Thu 16-May-13 17:06:05

Stealth -

I used the phrase "social retard" to describe a nutjob I had a date with on my AIBU thread. I used the phrase because he invited himself to my house, continued to try and kiss me and take my bra off after I broke away from him. Didn't read any of the hints I wanted him to leave until I told him I was taking him home at 4am. He messaged me 8 times in a row at 6am... and continued to message me daily several messages in a row and didnt take the hint I wasn't interested until I reported him to the police for harassment. I thought the phrase was very apt for him as he was the definition of the phrase. It wasn't making fun of anybody with mental/learning difficulties nor would I compare somebody with mental difficulties to that complete twunt. Some people take unnecessary offensive to things that were not meant to be offensive to others.

Calling someone a bastard isn't offending all children of unmarried couples is it?

THERhubarb Thu 16-May-13 17:30:59

No I would no longer use the word "retard" (no point in trying to pretend these words don't exist by using dashes) as I know that the word was definitely used to refer to people with learning disabilities.

The word "moron" has not been used in that context as far as I am aware. It is used to mean "idiot" or "plonker".

I am one of those who questioned GlassofRose's use of the word "retard" because it is popularly used against people with learning disabilities, to make fun of them, although it was fairly obvious that this is not what GlassofRose meant and there is no way I'd report her because I too, am an adult.

The fact that the word "moron" is used in a family film goes to show that the word is NOT used to refer to people with learning difficulties. The official definitions also indicate as such.

I am really quite peeved that MNHQ should treat us like children and start removing words that it deems are offensive. I think we are all mature enough to use our own discretion.

It's such a hypocrisy to leave words like "cunt" and "wanker" in thread titles yet remove the word "moron". I personally don't like words which are used as vulgar descriptions of female genitalia but again, I can choose to ignore them.

GlassofRose Thu 16-May-13 17:38:32

I have nothing to say but claps after reading Rhubarb's previous two posts.

Blatherskite Thu 16-May-13 17:41:14

Cretin is used in Monsters Inc too. shock

Randall calls Mike a cret-in and Mike corrects his pronunciation. Naughty, naughty cartoon characters.

I agree with THERhubarb and she's reminded me of a Stephen Fry quote - "It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what."

There are 101 words that have been used to describe people with various learning difficulties over the years - some have since been deemed as disablist and some seem to be fine but who decides which is which? Why is stupid OK but moron isn't?

UterusUterusGhali Thu 16-May-13 17:55:24

I can't get past "disablist carby bastard" tbh.

I've actually "lol"ed for 5 minutes.

MinnieBar Thu 16-May-13 18:18:36

grin

alienbanana Thu 16-May-13 18:38:22

Oh my god, you potatoist bastard!

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 16-May-13 19:04:09

Evening.

We thought it might help to explain our position here a bit more.

OK, our Talk Guidelines, for some time now, have said that we will remove posts that contain words we consider to be disablist, once they are reported to us.

We amended our Talk Guidelines to include disablist terms, partly in response to recent disability discrimination legislation and partly in response to a rising swell of concern from those who regularly post in our Special Needs topics.

Our practice when a disablist term is reported to us is to delete it, as per our Guidelines. But when it seems clear to us that the person who used the term has not used it with any offensive intent, we tend to drop them a mail, explaining what's happened and saying we realise they probably didn't mean to break the rules.

In cases where the disablist term is actually in the OP and the thread is already running at several dozen posts, we occasionally decide to edit out the disablist term, to avoid having to delete the OP, render the thread pretty senseless and, potentially, make the OP herself feel she's been publicly hauled over the coals. Again, we drop the OP a mail, explaining what's happened and saying we don't do this often but we thought a quick edit would be preferable to making a big song and dance on the thread.

Obviously, in the case of this thread, that didn't pan out too well.

As for the terms we do consider disablist, as KateMNHQ has posted earlier in the thread, they would include retard, cretin, spaz, moron and mong. We included moron specifically because of its associations with the eugenics movement.

There are other terms, like idiot and lunatic, whose usage specifically to describe people with learning difficulties or mental-health conditions has long, long since past, and whose meaning has now widened to encompass something altogether more general and less offensive - and those we tend to leave.

But it's all a very fluid, grey area and we remain open to correction and clarification.

ohbuggerhelp Thu 16-May-13 19:07:43

Squidward calls Spongebob and Gary's inane chat, " moron theatre"/.

Always made me laugh. Until now when I discover my little air holed friend is a disablist cunt sad.

ohbuggerhelp Thu 16-May-13 19:09:16

Where do you stand on calling women cunts?

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 16-May-13 19:12:18

ohbuggerhelp

Where do you stand on calling women cunts?

Whenever we have asked Mumsnetters about it, they have, by and large, said it shouldn't be treated any differently to any other swearword on MN. In other words, it's not deleted unless it's used in a personal attack.

You may also have noticed that some MNers have appropriated 'cunt' and use it specifically on MN as a term of endearment.

ohbuggerhelp Thu 16-May-13 19:20:55

What about idiot or stupid?

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 16-May-13 19:24:09

ohbuggerhelp

What about idiot or stupid?

Do please read our quite detailed post just a few posts earlier.

Sugarice Thu 16-May-13 19:24:54

I love that cunt may be interpreted as a term of endearment on Mumsnet. grin yet moron is a word deemed as offensive and is removed.

I think MNHQ have acted very well, by just changing a word
I dislike the term 'moron' and think it does have very unpleasant overtones, wether intentional or not.
I have enjoyed the thread though and this slight change made that possible.
I want to hear more about what happened to the car! grin

GlassofRose Thu 16-May-13 19:50:32

haha ohbugger that post about spongebob made me laugh as much as the one about mr potatohead.

marjproops Thu 16-May-13 19:51:36

ANYWAY........back to the original subject.....whats happened today OP?

ohbuggerhelp Thu 16-May-13 19:53:58

Moron theatre is a well loved and used phrase chez ohbugger.

I am gutted t know we are all disablist now sad.

ohbuggerhelp Thu 16-May-13 20:10:01

OMG!! Someone just called someone else an imbecile on Waterloo Road!!! shock

youarewinning Thu 16-May-13 20:11:30

LOL @ ohbugger

I came here to report the same thing grin

ohbuggerhelp Thu 16-May-13 20:14:20

And on the BBC too clutches pearls shock

ManifestoMT Thu 16-May-13 22:28:18

Does that mean I can't sing
Gordon is a moron any more for fear of being a disablist

WetDog Fri 17-May-13 00:08:43

FFS.

I hope you got your parking issue sorted OP.

MNHQ - you are being daft.

Moron has long been used in the same way as idiot and lunatic, which you allow.

I'd actually say lunatic could be considered more disablist than moron. And I speak as someone whose grandmother was in a "lunatic asylum" back in the day.

I really think you need to reconsider the words you allow when it comes to this "fluid" and "grey area".

SofiaAmes Fri 17-May-13 04:22:10

Funny to see what is considered offensive in uk vs usa. The c* word is beyond offensive here in the usa and would not be accepted in any circles and is considered extremely derogatory to women. Spaz on the other hand is not really used and not considered offensive in most circles. Moron is used all the time on a par with idiot and not any more offensive than calling someone an idiot. Other terms which are extremely offensive here in the usa like calling someone a "jew" for being tight with money, I've heard used by all sorts of people in the uk without any sense that it could be offensive.

Morgause Fri 17-May-13 05:15:04

I absolutely hate the c word. I find it beyond offensive and it's the only sweary word I would never use.

To disallow "moron" but allow that seems to defy all logic. I really don't see how "moron" can be viewed as "disablist" if idiot and cretin aren't. All were defined at the same time in history.

Seems far too precious to me.

StealthOfficialCrispTester Fri 17-May-13 06:56:41

Thanks Glassofrose and Rhubarb.
Dashes are for my own benefit, I have no desire to 'say' certain words, and there are many words that are 'allowed' on MN that I would never say or type.
I had no idea that all these words I consider offensive had such different backgrounds and connitations!

StealthOfficialCrispTester Fri 17-May-13 06:57:59

Have you really Sofia? I have never heard anyone being called a Jew (unless strictly factually!)
Actually I don't know anyone who is Jewish and I suspect the Jewish population up here in the NE is fairly low, so that may be why.

Littleturkish Fri 17-May-13 08:45:03

The Jew insult gained popularity with teens/young adults after the borat film and then seems to have dropped out of use again.

I would put moron on par with idiot and lunatic, given that I had no idea it had ever been associated with learning difficulties and I would hazard a guess that most people would not. I knew idiot was...just because a word is used more prolifically since its change of meaning, does it mean it is less offensive?

Back to parking: UPDATE!!

MiaowTheCat Fri 17-May-13 09:09:13

Personally if I was seeking to be professionally offended I'd find lunatic more offensive because, as mentioned, of the days of the lunatic asylum etc than moron.

Can we add "yummy mummy" to the "not offensive but fucking irritating - grow up woman" list please?

GlassofRose Fri 17-May-13 09:52:27

Other terms which are extremely offensive here in the usa like calling someone a "jew" for being tight with money, I've heard used by all sorts of people in the uk without any sense that it could be offensive.

^

I don't see it as offensive and I'm from a dutch Jew (amongst many other things) ancestry.

In fact you're most likely to hear those kind of jibes out of a Jewish persons mouth (not the really devout types). Although you wouldn't actually say "you're a Jew" it would be more of "get the moths out" or "are you saving up to be jewish?". It's said in jest.

My dad makes jokes about my uncle having to stay out to work late because his wife had her hair cut...

i agree with what mnhq has done.

any news on the car?

my neighbours sound scarily similar!

THERhubarb Fri 17-May-13 10:23:52

The word moron is no longer used in a disablist context and in my view, never was. It's origin is apparently Greek and means foolish.

It was used as a medical term meaning adults with a very low IQ or learning difficulties but is no longer used as such.

I fail to see how it can be considered offensive today when the original meaning is "foolish" and it is still widely used in that context.

Everyone is offended by something and yes, some words like "nigger" are blatantly offensive and were always used to cause great offensive or to mock. Black people have since tried to reclaim the word but it still sits uneasy with me. Same with "cunt", it's a derogatory term which I don't like but I can again understand why women would try to reclaim the word.

Yet a word like "moron" is now broadly recognised as meaning "idiot" or "stupid". I'm sure you would get a few people who would take great offensive at the word "idiot" being used and I'm sure that at MNHQ you've had posters report lesser words.

I would like to know who decides which words are now offensive and which are not. I'm sure you've had more complaints about the word "cunt" yet in your wisdom you have allowed that word to stand, treating us like the adults that we are and bowing to the general consensus that we can deal with it. Yet the word "moron" gets one complaint? At most? And we are suddenly considered to be too ignorant to be able to deal with the word on our own terms. It's not as if anyone else on the thread picked up on it at all.

I do feel kinda patronised and kinda as if I am being accused of being disablist myself. It is very frustrating not to be able to express yourself as you so wish for fear of causing offence to a minority of professionally offended posters. I shall just have to go round saying "cunt" instead. At least I know I'm safe with that one!

Arion Fri 17-May-13 10:59:40

MNHQ have said that 'moron' is specifically linked to eugenics which is why it is included. When you have parents of children who have additional needs posting that they have been told things like, their child should never have been born, or a drain on society, or should have been killed at birth, it is understandable that a term linked to a idea/movement about 'improving' the human population through reducing the number of poor, mentally ill, blind, deaf, developmentally delayed/disabled could be very upsetting and offensive. I have seen such posters appear time and again on threads where language such as retard or moron has appeared to state how offensive these words are to someone who is a parent or sibling or carer to a person who has additional needs. Personally, I would think these posters have enough on their plate, and should be able to navigate a forum that is there to support without having to stay in one area (special needs) because otherwise they will come across terms of abuse specifically hurtful to their situation.

And, yes, when you are told often that you child has no value, I would imagine that terms of abuse used about intelligence are as offensive as the word 'nigger' has been to the black community.

Arion Fri 17-May-13 11:00:09

Bit long there! blush

THERhubarb Fri 17-May-13 11:12:31

I have a brother with severe learning difficulties and a nephew with Downs Syndrome Arion, we do not all feel the same way.

This is from the eugenics archive website: "Terms like "moron," "imbecile," and "idiot" described persons with IQs below 86, while "bright" and "genius" were used for scores above 115."

Therefore the words "imbecile" and "idiot" should also be banned.

I am not here to argue against people with learning difficulties Arion, I am arguing for common sense and a certain freedom of speech. As I stated earlier, you could take offensive at every adjective, so much so that pretty soon everyone will be too scared to describe anyone who is black or who has a disability. You will not be able to use words in a jocular sense.

I'm sure that you yourself have used the word "idiot" at times yet there is no way on earth that you are using it to pour scorn on those who genuinely have a lower IQ and no doubt you would react with frustration and annoyance if someone came along and told you that you were.

What happens is that everyone gets frustrated by being unable to express themselves adequately without offending someone.

You cannot put the word "moron" on a similar par to the word "nigger", it just doesn't work.

Stropzilla Fri 17-May-13 11:18:05

I've been known to use moron, had no idea it was so offensive and will now stop. Oddly enough, I used to find the c word extremely offensive and never EVER used it, until Mumsnet! DH was extremely surprised the first time it slipped out my mouth and nearly wet himself laughing.

Can I use numpty instead?

THERhubarb Fri 17-May-13 11:24:11

Nope Stropzilla. Numpty means an idiot or fool and we've already established that implying that anyone is either a fool or an idiot may be deemed offensive.

I'd just not say anything. It's the only way to ensure you are safely non-offensive.

Stropzilla Fri 17-May-13 11:27:10

Oh bother. I shall just have to resort to stabbing people then.

THERhubarb Fri 17-May-13 11:32:52

It would be the least offensive course of action Stropzilla

GlassofRose Fri 17-May-13 11:47:34

Like Rhubarb says, you have to have a bit of common sense. Most words in the English language have several meanings. Meaning in conversation is determined by the topic of conversation, intonation (sadly can't be picked up on the internet.

My aunt has learning difficulties; If somebody called her a moron I'd be angry on her behalf... but I'm not angry on her behalf when somebody uses the term to describe somebody acting like a complete arsehole.

I think the reason we are becoming such a PC country is because too many people deem things offensive on others behalf. Like a previous poster mentioning it's offensive to jews to mock someone for being tight with their money. I'm not offended, I've used "saving up to be jewish" and moth in wallet jokes myself. Nor am I offended when I'm asked if I have "black" in me (yes some people have actually asked using that choice of words) because I have full lips (funny enough I do have african ancestry too; If I was a dog i'd be one of those mongrels you see in Battersea. Oops was that offensive to the dogs in battersea?)

MiaowTheCat Fri 17-May-13 11:50:08

Can we add I find apostrophes carpet-bombed into plurals incredibly offensive against the beautiful history and heritage of the English language. That'll keep MNHQ busy for months getting rid of those!

Yanbu, at all to have your curb dropped costs money and it is yours to use, rightly so!
I have a drive, but I don't have a car and at least once a week some pilock parks in front of my drive causing an obstruction to any visitors to my home and also it's hard to get my pram out. Not to mention the danger of my dc getting run over as said piloks mostly park on the actual pavement infront of my drive tooangry
Grrrr, people should realise a drive belongs to the person living at that particular house not to them and the whole neighbourhood!

BarredfromhavingStella Fri 17-May-13 11:54:33

I seriously don't understand how people 'rate' swear words-you're either bothered by swearing or you're not, cunt is the same as fuck is the same as bollocks etc hmm

Anyway, hope you got the parking issue sorted OP-I had a similar incident the other day & when I requested that the young lady offender not do it again she launched into a tirade of abuse which ended with her saying "don't forget I know where you live" okaaaaaay love, get a fucking grip, I do think she was maybe slightly unhinged...

coldwater1 Fri 17-May-13 11:59:41

I just wanted to come and clear something up.

To insinuate i am intentionally trying to offend anyone, esp disabled people is ridiculous. I had a disabled child myself that died, why would i want to do such a thing?!

The word i used is used by many people to mean fool, that is what i meant in my OP. The man was a fool for parking over my drive and leaving with the key.

Had someone pointed out to me they found it offensive i would have apologised, instead they felt the need to report it. It was clear the context in which i was using the word.

THERhubarb Fri 17-May-13 12:04:17

Good point GlassofRose. I feel strongly that in this case, the OP was not using a strong term like "retard" but a general term which is in general usage and that she was not using it to cause offense at all. Therefore to delete it was going over the top.

It's insulting actually. So in order to prevent offence, MNHQ have managed to offend.

THERhubarb Fri 17-May-13 12:06:07

coldwater1 flowers

I do wish posters would act their bloody age and just tell the person concerned if they have a problem instead of running to teacher.

angry

Mintyy Fri 17-May-13 12:24:40

I think this is all fine, don't mind people being pulled up on using the word moron BUT what Soupy says here "When told a word is offensive, most people with an ounce of empathy and common sense would accept it and move on" is absolutely not true on Mumsnet.

Time and time again posters - and not just newbs - say they find the word cunt offensive (not me, I don't mind it) and they are ridiculed or ignored.

Not sure what should be done about it, but I think some of the responses on this thread are a bit glib.

Mintyy Fri 17-May-13 12:25:44

Yeah, can't stand the cowardly reporting behind the scenes. Wimps!!

THERhubarb Fri 17-May-13 12:30:33

Mintyy this is kinda my point.

For what it's worth (again) the word moron means, by definition, an idiot. Which means that if you were to ban the word then you must surely ban all associated words such as idiot, plonker, numpty, fool and so on because how can you refer to someone's lack of IQ and not be offensive?

Secondly, I would wager that the word "cunt" draws more complaints and offends more people than the word "moron" yet the latter is deleted and the former remains.

There is no consistency. I would far rather MNHQ give us the decency to behave like adults. If someone finds a word offensive then by all means pull the OP up on it. As coldwater1 says, she would have apologised and that would be that. Instead we have a situation where someone else makes the decision about what to and what not to delete and as a result, many more people are offended by what is deleted and by what is not.

So just leave the damn words on there and allow us to use our own discretion please!

coldwater1 Fri 17-May-13 12:30:54

Had the person in question told me they found it offensive i would have been empathic, to suggest i lack the ability to show empathy is actually offensive considering no one actually knows me IRL.

Thanks Rhubarb!

Mintyy Fri 17-May-13 12:36:57

Good point, well made Rhubarb.

I often wonder which word to use as a descriptor when someone shows the same shockingly ignorant (or is it provocative) behaviour as op's neighbour. It is a minefield.

Mintyy Fri 17-May-13 12:37:30

So who reported? Anyone care to admit?

THERhubarb Fri 17-May-13 12:41:49

Why the slight name change coldwater? If you don't mind my asking?

I refer MNHQ back to the original wiki definition of a moron, in particular to this: "The word moron, along with others including, "idiotic", "imbecilic", "stupid", and "feeble-minded", was formerly considered a valid descriptor in the psychological community, but it is now deprecated in use by psychologists."

and this for idiot: "An idiot, dolt, or dullard is a mentally deficient person, or someone who acts in a self-defeating or significantly counterproductive way."

Therefore my question is simple. Why delete moron and not idiot since both mean the same thing?

coldwater1 Fri 17-May-13 12:46:56

No its ok. I was being spammed with emails from mumsnet and my phone kept bleeping at me. I deactivated and re-registered using an old email address, should have registered with the other one in the first place really as the original email address is the one i use for work and uni.

THERhubarb Fri 17-May-13 13:25:18

You need to switch off notifications. Go into your MN account and change your notification settings.

I hate bloody spam too. I still get the odd email however about Mumsnet Bloggers or the Book Club which I'm not even signed up to hmm

coldwater1 Fri 17-May-13 13:28:37

Oh, thanks. lol I did click one email at the bottom where it said 'unsubscribe' but i still got emails. Maybe i did it wrong. They can spam my old email address all they like, i hardly ever log in to it.

THERhubarb Fri 17-May-13 13:38:08

Ah the old "unsubscribe here" trick which just validates your email address. Nah, as you are logged in just click on your registration and untick all the boxes which will be automatically ticked to sign you up for every newsletter under the sun.

You may only log into your old email every now and then but when you do need to use it, you'll have to delete a hundred or so Mumsnet emails first. Including the ones slapping your wrist wink

coldwater1 Fri 17-May-13 13:41:26

lol Yeah that's true. I think i'll go and untick all those boxes after all!

GlassofRose Fri 17-May-13 14:03:54

I mentioned the same about the word idiot upthread because cretin, imbecile, moron are all considered alternatives to it.

It would seem fool is the only safe option or bastard, cunt, wanker...

SofiaAmes Fri 17-May-13 14:17:33

GlassofRose you have misunderstood my point. You may not find the term "jew" used synonymously with miserliness offensive. And in my experience it seemed to be acceptable in the uk (when I lived there 10 years ago, it was regularly used by my colleagues who were educated and worldly and not yet influenced by Borat). However, I find it offensive and here in the USA it would be considered so by most people. I was simply making a point that different terms can have different levels of offensiveness in different places.

GlassofRose Fri 17-May-13 14:30:45

I understand you find it offensive and it's considered offensive in the USA (which I find odd considering the popular films featuring like Jonah Hill, Judd Apatow and Seth Rogen where being Jewish is humorous).

I'm also aware that different terms are acceptable in some places when they might not be in others. Especially apparent with American cartoons/films using moron (Toy story & spongebob) and the UK's mumsnet saying it's offensive.

So what is your point that I missed? confused

Out of interest: Are you Jewish or taking offence to money jokes on our behalf?

StuntGirl Fri 17-May-13 16:17:49

"I do wish posters would act their bloody age and just tell the person concerned if they have a problem instead of running to teacher."

Well given MNHQ's preferred method is for people to 'run to teacher' every time they have an issue is it any wonder?

SofiaAmes Fri 17-May-13 18:27:04

Point was only that there are differences in what is considered offensive from one side of the pond to the other. Not profound, just a comment. I am Jewish (by blood). I didn't hang out with too many fellow jews in the uk as I am not practicing, so I was wondering if Jews in the uk were like here where lots of fun is poked at oneself. ie It's ok for me to say it's the jew in me that makes me frugal, but not ok for someone else to say it. I have conversations on the subject often with my black friends who will make comments about blacks that are acceptable because they are making them, but wouldn't be acceptable if I was making them.
Having said all of that, I try to not call people names of any sort whether they are politically acceptable like idiot, or not pc like moron. Neither is kind and in most cases is probably not fair (I'm a big believer in giving people the benefit of the doubt for just about anything....maybe the op's neighbor gets beaten up by her husband and was running late and decided that parking in the op's driveway was less problematic than the consequences of being late and dealing with her husband...ok it's far fetched, but maybe there's a reason. Doesn't make her behavior ok, but it does mean that she probably is not an idiot or a m****).

marjproops Fri 17-May-13 18:38:01

the point was the original thread about the parking, but its escalated into this!

GlassofRose Fri 17-May-13 18:50:57

Stereotypes exist for reasons. In my opinion it's not insulting to acknowledge them in jest.

The fact you group people together as "black" rather then differentiating and fear acknowledging differences in conversation just shows how stupidly PC the world is becoming. To be honest I find the use of "black" rather than Ghanian, Nigerian etc a whole lot more offensive than a stereotype of Jewish people being misers.

The OP outlined the personalities of the neighbours... the neighbouring family do not have any respect for the people who live next door to them the descriptive used was used because of that fact.

OliviaMMumsnet (MNHQ) Fri 17-May-13 20:09:16

peace and love people

maddening Fri 17-May-13 21:08:46

damm I want parking updates ! They are far more exciting than splitting hairs over the English language....

SofiaAmes Fri 17-May-13 21:29:09

GlassofRose, yet another difference between the uk and the usa. Here in the USA, the vast majority of the "blacks" know very little about their African origins and don't have any bonds to their ancestors' countries. The country they affiliate with is the USA. They prefer to be referred to as black or African American. I understand that this is very different in the UK. Most of my "black" friends in the UK knew and affiliated with their country of origin. On the other hand, most of the hispanics I know here in the usa, have strong bonds to their countries of origin because they are more recent arrivals to the USA. My El Salvadorian housekeeper would be offended if you called her a "Mexican" (but not offended if you called her hispanic). Things are different in the USA and the UK. And for that matter they vary quite a bit within the US.
By the way, in the spirit of being respectful to those around you....It may not be insulting to you to acknowledge stereotypes in jest, but it clearly is to others, so presumably Mumsnet is trying to accomodate that as best they can (I think it's a little OTT to ban the word moron, but I respect that I'm not an experienced public forum website manager and perhaps one has to be OTT to prevent unforeseen consequences).

THERhubarb Sat 18-May-13 11:45:04

I think it is downright rude to speak on behalf of a huge raft of people, black or otherwise. You cannot take offence on behalf of someone else and state how they identify themselves, that is patronising beyond belief.

People are individual, how about you identify them as their first bloody names???? I have Irish heritage but so bloody what? If anyone dared to tell me what my identity was or to be outraged on my behalf I would laugh in their faces.

SofiaAmes Sat 18-May-13 14:29:17

Actually not everyone like to be identified by their first name. Some prefer you use their last.....Anyway, not quite sure what your point is. I am speaking about my friends and what they tell me, not a "huge raft of people." And actually I do believe you can (and should) take offense on behalf of other people. That's called standing up to bigotry and bullying and it's what we do in a civilized society.

GlassofRose Sat 18-May-13 20:17:24

I think taking offence depends on what it is. If someone is using any word maliciously to describe another unwarranted/ with obvious prejudice then I fully understand taking offence and voicing it. However if you just don't like the word somebody uses to describe another then the old Stephen Fry saying goes for me:

‘It’s now very common to hear people say, “I’m rather offended by that”, as if that gives them certain rights. It’s no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. “I’m offended by that.” Well, so fucking what?’

schoolgovernor Sat 18-May-13 20:25:02

Bloody hell. If Op came back here to give an update I doubt she'd bother now. Why can't people start a new thread when they get this far into a thread hijack? FFS.

missuswife Sat 18-May-13 20:26:37

It's all about context. I'm Jewish and would find it offensive if a gentile used the word 'jew' or 'Jew someone down' to mean miserly or bargaining someone down. If a Jew said it in a self-deprecating way that would be ok. Similarly many black people use the n word but it would not be okay for a white person, or like gays taking ownership of 'fairy' or 'queer." Context and intention determine whether it's offensive.

digerd Sat 18-May-13 20:47:08

Yes, indeed. I came back to see if there was update and thought I was on the wrong Thread confused and big sigh.

SofiaAmes Sat 18-May-13 23:29:06

One of the wonderful things about the internet is its vast capacity. Our sidetrack discussion will not prevent the OP from giving everyone an update. I found the discussion to be interesting and illuminating (I had no idea that moron was considered offensive before this thread)...I'm sorry that others have found it annoying. I will refrain from any further posts as I would prefer not to annoy my neighbors.

coldwater1 Sun 19-May-13 06:16:03

Not really much to update.

Yesterday the neighbour had his car parked just over my driveway, i was able to squeeze out though with a bit of maneuvering. When i came back they had moved the car up and the father came out and apologised and said if the son parks his car in my way again to knock and he'll move it. Would be better to not park it in the way in the first place but its a start i guess! lol

Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii Sun 19-May-13 09:31:46

That is a good update. Hope it continues. smile

digerd Sun 19-May-13 10:17:42

Oh, that's good news having the dad on your side.

I have a neighbour opposite me and when I mentioned the car parked opposite my driveway, next to him, - was his neighbour's car- he went all bristly and didn't say anything. As I persued the matter with him he suddenly burst out " Anybody who can't reverse out of your driveway, shouldn't be allowed on the road". shock It is a very narrow cul-de-sac. He insisted he could do it easily hmm

inabeautifulplace Sun 19-May-13 10:25:47

Make him do it digerd!

digerd Sun 19-May-13 10:50:19

I wouldn't risk him scraping that other car in his over-confidence and and showing off. smile I was so shocked as he is normally a quiet polite 'wouldn't say boo to a goose' man.
I just put it down to him having a thing about women drivers and reversing and was his problem grin

BonzoDooDah Sun 19-May-13 11:35:04

Yay coldwater that's a great result from the neighbour! A polite exchange. Woo Hoo!

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