woman was trying to force dd to eat a hamwidge

(513 Posts)
rosepettel Mon 13-May-13 05:54:12

yesterday i got told by dd that her mate mum was trying to force her to eat a hamwidge even thou we are veges.. dd got very upset and distressed.. im going to ring the woman and go nuts but what can i say..why would she do this she knows we are veges..im so angry at the min what would you do? woman was saying just eat it i wont tell youre mum but dd was saying no i dont want it and was crying i am so angry.. what will i do please help?

Roshbegosh Mon 13-May-13 05:59:47

I don't think going nuts is a good idea but when you feel calmer you could call her. I assume your DD wants to remain friends with her daughter so you don't want a big fallout. Are you sure DD was crying?

rosepettel Mon 13-May-13 06:01:19

when she came out she had wet eyes so i said have you been crying and she burst in to tears and told me

Labootin Mon 13-May-13 06:04:48

Hamwidge ?
Vege?

Possibly swallow a dictionary ?

Agree have a firm but calm word when you have had time to gather your thoughts.

Make it about DD & how you are sure she wouldn't want her to be upset again by any misunderstanding.

If you can have a face to face chat so she gets it, ignorant woman.

Hope yr DD is ok, sadly rhis may happen again & she needs to know it's OK to refuse food; she probably felt she was being rude.

Labootin NOT helpful.

LittleMissLucy Mon 13-May-13 06:11:43

encourage, or force? what do you mean, force?

Hakluyt Mon 13-May-13 06:13:24

How old is the child?

pofacedlemonsucker Mon 13-May-13 06:19:42

So, at five to six in the morning, you are fretting over something called a hamwidge?

Presumably dd is old enough to say 'no thank you I am a vegetarian' if she is old enough to go off on play dates without you specifying food allergies etc with the other mother? If a child came to tea at mine, I'm afraid I would probably serve meat if I hadn't been told in advance - and I may have assumed the child was swinging the lead if the mum hasn't let me know... I'd have just blinked and offered a cheesewidge (?!) probably though.

I am more fascinated by why this is essential right now though. Perhaps you could call her before breakfast?

pofacedlemonsucker Mon 13-May-13 06:20:25

Maybe you could open with 'I'm so sorry about yesterday! I clear forgot to tell you that dd is a vegetarian! I hope it didn't cause you any bother!'

pofacedlemonsucker Mon 13-May-13 06:22:55

Does she think you are forcing her to be a vege then? In a sort of militant child abuse from protein withdrawal thang?

(There are vegetarian kids who eat meat when their parents aren't around, btw grin I know two.)

She was probably just kidding, and dd didn't realise. Insensitive, but she's going to get it a lot, probably.

Pozzled Mon 13-May-13 06:29:55

Read the op, people. The friend knew they were vegetarian, and the DD DID say no thank you.

OP, I agree to calling when you are calm rather than going mad. I would talk about how upset your DD was, and say that if she wishes to discuss your parenting choices, she should come directly to you. Are there any choices that the other mum feels strongly about? Can you ask her how she'd have felt if her DD was being encouraged to do something which is against her rules or beliefs?

NotTreadingGrapes Mon 13-May-13 06:31:05

I think what you should do is, as others have said, calm down, then next time you see the woman, after politely thanking her for having your daughter round, mention that dd told you about the ham.

And next time, maybe mention it before a playdate.

rosepettel Mon 13-May-13 06:31:51

shes 4 and an half and the woman did a table of food it was birth day party and wen they went in living room dd then went back to kitchen with otherdd to get more drink and the woman put the hamwidge on her plate and just eat it i wont tell youre mum go on and why dont you just eat it its nice you will like it and she said no and older dd was watching but did not no what to do shes 6

rosepettel Mon 13-May-13 06:32:26

she knows we are veges

Jinty64 Mon 13-May-13 06:34:10

I would let that friendship go. Encourage DD to make new friends with parents who will respect her wishes. I don't think I would even say anything to the mother unless she asks. If that's her attitude it's not worth the bother.

pinkyredrose Mon 13-May-13 06:35:29

Ham sandwich being called hamwich is growing on me.

Can we have beefwich or saladwich? How about hummuswich?

rosepettel Mon 13-May-13 06:36:43

i had a jamwich on thurs so probably

Branleuse Mon 13-May-13 06:37:59

id have a discussion with dd about how she feels about it.
and avoid the other family.

MrsPresley Mon 13-May-13 06:41:26

Oh I thought a hamwich was one of these things we got years ago.

It was a little triangular shape of cheese and ham coated in breadcrumbs (I think)

They came from the freezer section, can't remember if it was Birds Eye or Findus that made them, but they were bloody awful grin

Moominsarehippos Mon 13-May-13 06:44:06

DBIL calls very large sandwiches 'manwidges'.

RollerCola Mon 13-May-13 06:52:00

Interesting. I now understand the concept of the hamwidge, except that in our house a 'widge' = 'tiny willy'

TheChaoGoesMu Mon 13-May-13 06:53:46

The woman sounds like an arse. I would ask her why she was trying to get your dd to eat meat when she knows she's veggie.

rosepettel Mon 13-May-13 07:02:10

bread

ham

bread

GingerBlondecat Mon 13-May-13 07:03:09

calm Down, take a Deep Breath. Then go to town on this idiot.

They were Bernard Matthews and they were called cheese hamwiches. I bloody loved them and I think they might still be available. That aside, they are obviously completely unsuitable for a vegetarian. (and if you look at the word, it could be perfectly logical to shorten it to vege).

Anyhow, I would phone her, ask her why she tried to 'encourage' your daughter to try meat when she knows fine well she is vegetarian and ask her kindly not to do it again. In a firm way grin. Good luck.

ImTooHecsyForYourParty Mon 13-May-13 07:13:13

I would certainly call her and calmly say that it was not acceptable to do that.

trying to get your daughter to eat it, saying it's nice, and you will never know? Carrying on when your daughter was there crying? - bang out of order and it IS a big deal!

She clearly doesn't approve of you raising your child as a vegetarian. hmm I can't think of any other reason for going on at a child who has already said no, until they cry, and saying that their mum will never know.

She'll be one of those who thinks that there's something wrong with not eating meat.

Mondaybaby Mon 13-May-13 07:13:16

I'm vegetarian and so is my dd. I know if this had happened to me then I would be up at a strange hour fretting about it too. I would be so cross. well done OP for not saying anything while still angry as I agree that would have been counterproductive. it sounds like this woman has a chip (fried in beef fat) on her shoulder. Your little dd did brilliantly to hold her own against her and should be congratulated. I would tell this woman in a calm voice that your dd is strictly vegetarian and give her a written list of what she mustn't eat.

Fairylea Mon 13-May-13 07:16:07

I can't believe people have made comments about that way op put hamwich or vege... who cares!?

Anyway, yes you must say something. If your dd was that upset then I'd have to mention it.

I'm not vegetarian myself now although I have been in the past but I'd always respect a childs diet wishes. It's not for me to decide or mock.

Fairylea Mon 13-May-13 07:17:06

Oooh check out my own errors etc there... that's what I get for being up with ds at 4am!

cozietoesie Mon 13-May-13 07:17:20

I've come across this before - people who think deep down that eating vegetarian is a lifestyle decision thrust on unwilling children by blinkered parents and who try to subvert that - on the grounds that once the child has tasted meat (which they believe they're secretly gagging to do), they'll immediately become 'right thinking'.

GingerBlondecat Mon 13-May-13 07:17:26

Hyerperthetical Question. What if your DD was someone that could NOT eat meat for whaterver reason. Some people get ill from meat products. their stomach cannot handle it at all.

I'd be furious. I would have to say something to the mum along the lines of 'my son doesn't eat meat, I told you he doesn't eat meat, I don't appreciate you trying to persuade him to eat something that his father and I don't want him to eat'

By text, because I'm a wuss

loofet Mon 13-May-13 07:26:58

Ugh. That is disgraceful, you have every right to be horrified. Would she have tried to force cheese on someone lactose intolerant then? Maybe she thinks that's a load of mumbo jumbo too that she could 'cure' by force feeding the child it hmm

Unfortunately some people in this world are just ignorant bigoted pigs. I would absolutely go to town on the mother if I were you btw. Really horrid, good on your DD for standing up for herself though smile

Love 'hamwich' 'cheesewich' 'jamwich' 'pbwich' grin

Labootin Mon 13-May-13 07:35:24

I apologise for being so flippant Re hamwich

Perhaps it was only wafer thin ham in the wich which EVERYONE knows doesn't count.

Being serious if the mother really did act like that she's a loaf short of a pick-err-nick and I'd be having words...

WouldBeHarrietVane Mon 13-May-13 07:37:24

I wouldn't say anything until the next time the dd go round and then I would just say very calmly "i think you've forgotten that that all the Dc are veggie as dd mentioned you wanted her to eat ham at x's party". They don't eat meat by choice, so it would be great if you could please offer veggie food only. Thanks so much!!" she will know you know, won't dare do it again and you have kept the moral high ground and not damaged dd's friendships.

I would tell Dd how well she did and that it is every individual's right to choose what to eat and everyone should respect that.

I think a lot of parents secretly don't approve of parents doing what they see as 'forcing' veggie lifestyles on their dc so the dc grow up without tasting meat at all. Also, my best friend is veggie but her son is allowed to choose non veggie food out of the house - he eats sausage at ours and this woman may know similar people. Doesn't make what she did ok but may explain it.

Tailtwister Mon 13-May-13 07:50:50

YANBU to be very annoyed OP. This woman clearly knew your daughter was vegetarian, but chose to encourage her to eat meat anyway. Really, really disrespectful and unfair on your daughter who was made to feel awkward.

Lollydaydream Mon 13-May-13 08:00:30

Strangely there are people out there who just can't quite grasp vegetarianism; they can't get that it doesn't include 'just a bit of ham', or the vegetables out of a chicken stew. Or they relish the idea of converting someone back to meat eating. It is odd and patronising but most vegetarians experience it at some point. I would focus more on explaining this to your children and why they don't eat meat. Also purely that it is ok to say no and that no one should force them into eating anything.

hackmum Mon 13-May-13 08:03:49

There are a lot of people out there who don't respect other's dietary needs or preferences. My MiL was always trying to persuade my DD to eat ham sandwiches and the like when she was small, even though we are bringing her up vegetarian. Mil thinks we are "cruel". (We are also "cruel" for not allowing her to stuff herself with vast quantities of sweets and crisps at all hours of the day, a defect MiL has tried very hard to remedy.)

At the extreme end, remember the thread about grandparents feeding their allergic grandchildren small amounts of peanuts, on the grounds that they weren't really allergic, just making a fuss.

HairyWorm Mon 13-May-13 08:05:22

Arrrgghh! I would be livid!
I hate that attitude.
Horrible, ignorant woman thinking she has the god given right to overrule your decisions.

I've been veggie with periods of vegan for years. I'm due to have my first in summer and they will be veggie too. I don't need to justify that choice to anyone and I don't think it's that big a deal really. I'm constantly surprised why some people have such a big problem with it. It's always a topic of conversation when we're out with my relatives and people who just assume that myself or DH are veggie just to keep the other one happy !?!?

Anyway, back to the point. Because some people think it's ok to question why I'm veggie I'm obviously used to explaining and challenging the usual questions and ignorant assumptions, but a little girl is not and shouldn't bloody have to.

I don't know how you should approach the woman in question. I guess it would depend on your relationship with her now. I feel it's more a lack of respect for your parenting decisions than the veggie issue but calm down before you speak to her. I'm not looking forward to having to deal with these issues myself in the future future so good luck!

Moominsarehippos Mon 13-May-13 08:06:08

I wouldn't feed a child ham because of all the crap that goes into some of it. I don't eat meat myself, totally respect the fact that some people do, but am also aware the some friends don't touch processed hams because of the recent contamination/cancer scares. I would never give a child something that I knew was off the menu for them.

I would try to agree the facts first before charging in. The child is young and trying to get the whole truth from a youngster isn't all that easy. The mum may have been 'joking' but the child took it deadly seriously and got upset. I was a shy kid and would have been upset if someone had tried to do this to me (not that I was a veggie then).

I'd speak to the mum to ask if she a) was aware the child is a 'proper' veggie, b) understood that actually means meat, fish, etc even if it doesn't look like it, c) ask if she was aware that the child had felt that she was being encouraged to eat meat at the house and was upset by it.

I'd be pissed off but its not suprising. I've heard it all in the 26 years of being veggie 'it doesn't count' 'its only chicken stock/gelatin etc' 'it won't hurt' 'you neeeeed meat to live' etc etc etc.

I'd also have a chat to DD to remind her why she doesn't eat some things, that some people do, but that both are OK and each to their own.

Don't get angry - you have years ahead of this.

GetOrfMoiLand Mon 13-May-13 08:07:35

I don't blame you for being furious. I would certainly have words with the stupid woman.

And I say that as a confirmed carnivore. There is nothing wrong with raising a child as a vegetarian, and it is out of order for anyone to try and go against a parent's wishes.

I also thought the the hamwich referred to one of those Bernard Matthews things I ate as a child.

"just eat it i wont tell youre mum go on and why dont you just eat it its nice you will like it and she said no and older dd was watching but did not no what to do shes 6"

Seems awfully detailed for a 6 year old, let alone a 4 year old. Before I did my nut (and I do sympathise) I'd be making sure I knew what really happened.

Moominsarehippos Mon 13-May-13 08:11:27

Maybe the child ate the sandwich (for whatever reason) and feels guilty?

MadBusLady Mon 13-May-13 08:15:47

This woman had catered a children's birthday party and was trying to make sure all her guests were getting something to eat - never a stressfree activity.

I'd be cautiously approaching her and trying to work out if she was just having a moment of forgetfulness. If she really did try to "force" your DD that's terrible but a 4yo and a 6yo could easily have misunderstood the intentions of an adult in a conversation like that. Do they say what happened after your DD finally refused?

MomOfTomStubby Mon 13-May-13 08:23:52

Isn't the word 'force' a bit strong? Ok the mom probably came over a bit strong but I doubt that she was going 'you will eat this hamwich'.

Some people think that it's not right for parents to impose their veggie rules on children. The mom sounds like one of those people. But since the friendship is between the children what does it matter?

Make some polite comment and let the matter drop. Why destroy a presumably nice friendship between the kids because you don't like the mom's attitude?

kelda Mon 13-May-13 08:26:28

MrsPresley - Do you mean a findus crispy pancake? Quite how they can describe those things as pancakes? Enough to make anyone vegeterian.

Lambzig Mon 13-May-13 08:41:00

DH and I were veggie for years and nothing but nothing could convince my MIL that ham wasn't vegetarian. She is only 10 years older than me (stepmother to DH), so not an older person view.

My guess is OP that if she said "I won't tell your mother", that's not the case here, but perhaps she sees it as not as bad as other meat.

cozietoesie Mon 13-May-13 08:45:44

I'm trying (and failing) to understand how someone couldn't see ham as meat.

hmm

Lambzig Mon 13-May-13 08:50:43

I know, but she sees it differently (v intelligent woman with PhD, but funny ideas). She says it isn't 'real meat'.

cozietoesie Mon 13-May-13 08:56:00

In some ways, she has a point! Only in some ways, mind you.

She needs challenging, I have seen adults try to do this, not only towards Vegetarian children but other religions. I don't think that it needs to turn into a massive confrontation, unless the Mother gets insulting. Anyone who is displaying ignorance towards another person's beliefs or lifestyle should be pulled up on it. Too many people are to quick to defend the actions of arseholes and we shouldn't be so quick to dismiss what has been told to us, by a child who has been alone with an adult, sometimes situations occur just as the child has re-told it.

SoupDragon Mon 13-May-13 09:02:57

Welcome to MN, OP.

MrsMelons Mon 13-May-13 09:04:20

If it happened exactly how described this is completely out of order - she shouldn't be trying to force your child to eat anything regardless of whether she is vegetarian or not.

I know its a bit daft to comment on it as irrelevant to the thread but I am a bit confused over the hamwidge thing - I get now that it is a ham sandwich but in my 33 years I have never ever heard of someone call it a hamwidge - what is up with ham sandwich? although I think I quite like how it sounds

hackmum Mon 13-May-13 09:04:59

cozietoesie - I've discovered in Spain that they seem to regard ham as vegetarian - you ask for a dish that doesn't have any meat, and it comes sprinkled with bits of ham! They seem to regard it as a condiment.

By the way, I wish people would stop saying that the OP's children must have misunderstood what's going on. Why? A 4 year old and 6 year old are perfectly capable of understanding what's said to them and repeating it.

Unfortunately, nutrition is one of those areas where extreme ignorance meets extreme self-righteousness - hence all those threads we see on here where MiLs insist that breast milk must be bad for the baby, it needs formula, it needs crumbled up rusk in its bottle, it should be fed biscuits from the age of three months etc.

cheeseandpineapple Mon 13-May-13 09:05:53

She sounds pretty unpleasant but I wouldn't confront her at this stage, given it was a party, hard to know for sure what the circumstances were exactly and if your dd and her dd are good friends then you want to avoid undermining the friendship but at least you know to tread carefully. If your daughter is invited over for a play date, I'd have a word then and make it clear that your dd's vegetarian and doesn't eat any meat including ham and if that's a problem then maybe her dd should come over to yours for cheesewiches instead..

If you are keen to confront the situation then as others say, deep breath and raise it as calmly as you can but I think it is likely to create an issue going forward whereas for sake of your dd would be better if you manage the situation going forward.

Would also tell your dd that if she does ever go round there again you will explain to the other mum that you don't eat meat and reassure her that you'll deal with it so she's not put off going again.

I'd say give the woman a wide bearth if you can but unfortunately we can't always pick the families we want our children to be friends with.

I really struggle at times with mother of one of my DD's best friends but my DD adores her DD and would be devastated not to see her friend outside of school so I have to tolerate this woman as best as I can for DD's sake. DD's friend is lovely, it's just her mum who's nuts!

TheChaoGoesMu Mon 13-May-13 09:07:05

I don't think its awfully detailed toad. My 5 year old would be more than capable of articulating that at age 4. And the detail is so plausible that I would think it very unlikely that she made it up.

I am loving everything new I am learning about bread and witches!

You need to teach your dd that ham is easily removed from food, so that next time, she turns her hamwich into a wich and eat it neat. She could perhaps substitute ham with crisp or grape, making a crispwich or a grapewich. Wonderful!

nenevomito Mon 13-May-13 09:28:46

I wonder if it went.

Would you like a Ham Sandwich? (refuse to say the other word it sounds stupid),

No, mummy says I'm not allowed (sounds more like a 4 year old to me)

Go one, try one... etc.

Before you go in all guns blazing, make sure you actually check out if things happened the way your DDs say they did. If you don't, you could find yourself with very few party invites for your DDs.

If she did say. 'Just eat it, I won't tell your mum' - that is really wrong, as far as I am concerned. I once freaked out because I realised I had given prawn crackers to a child whose family keep rules akin to kosher - ie no seafood. I spoke to them at once and they were fine with it (they said there is no prawn just artificial flavours in prawn crackers, so it was OK), but I felt awful.

I cannot imagine encouraging a child to eat something I know their parents do not want them to eat, and telling them it can be concealed from their parents - which is lying by omission. It is akin to offering a child alcohol or drugs and saying their parents don't have to know.

squeakytoy Mon 13-May-13 09:47:02

OP, if your daughter had said she wanted to try the ham sandwich, would you have allowed her to?

nenevomito Mon 13-May-13 09:53:16

I'm not saying the mum was right to say "go on, try one", but I seriously doubt that someone tried to force a crying child to eat something she didn't want to. You'd have to be a complete cunt to do that and I just don't buy it.

ChunkyPickle Mon 13-May-13 09:54:18

Completely irrelevant, but I think hamwich, and jamwich are fine, but pbwich and cheesewich are silly.

I think the rhyming makes a difference.

EglantinePrice Mon 13-May-13 09:58:53

I'd be asking her something like

"do you know we're vege?"
"dd said you tried to force her to eat a ham sandwich, why would she say that?"

and go from there. quoting what she said to dd if necessary.

But ultimately I wouldn't be sending the dd there again. Its very bullying and sneaky and she's breached your trust.

MotherOfSuburbia Mon 13-May-13 10:03:07

A dad did this with my eldest when he went to his first party on his own, aged 5. He really drilled him about why he was vegetarian which I thought was a little harsh on someone so young.
As it happens, I am quite happy with my children choosing what they eat at parties although we don't eat meat at home: 2 of them will happily munch on ham sandwiches but my eldest would never ever touch the stuff.
Either way, I think it's inappropriate to question a parent's decisions with a child. If the adult has a problem with vegetarianism, they should talk to the other adult.

greenbananas Mon 13-May-13 11:24:09

I wouldn't send your DD to this woman's house again. If she can undermine you and upset your DD like that, she is not to be trusted.

Did this woman not realise that if your DD has never eaten ham before it might upset her tummy a bit and/or make her feel sick?

Actually, this is the kind of ignorant, interfering stupidity that gives me nightmares. DS1 (same age as your DD) has life-threatening food allergies to random-seeming stuff like bananas and peas, and I dread the day he has to deal with somebody telling him, "Go on, a little bit won't hurt, it can't be that bad, I won't tell your mum..." sad

KatoPotato Mon 13-May-13 11:41:38

THIS is a hamwich!

Pigsmummy Mon 13-May-13 11:46:38

Tunwich?

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Mon 13-May-13 12:06:39

Just so you know, when you Google the sandwich with your spelling, this thread is the first that comes up.

Do you mean 'hamwich' -As Google politely informed me- Or is it some sort of sneery term for the ham sandwiches many children eat? confused

Sorry, more interested in terminology than thread. Your DD will be offered meat all her life. She'll either deny it or eat it.

So... I refer to hamwich?

I can quite easily believe that someone tried to force a child to eat a ham sandwich. There are one or two mothers I know at DS's school who have some weird ideas about children being veggie and I would not be surprised if it came out they had tried to persuade a child to eat meat.

LadyBeagleEyes Mon 13-May-13 12:35:39

Hamwidge is probably the most annoying word I've seen on Mn, it's up there with amazeballs and gawguss.
And if you have to use it, please use hamwich.
Though I'd rather you didn't.

BlackAffronted Mon 13-May-13 12:37:04

I love that the blog up there is just called "Shite Food" <bookmarks it for further food inspiration>

MarmaladeTwatkins Mon 13-May-13 12:38:09

Do they still do Hamwiches?!

SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

LemonsLimes Mon 13-May-13 12:40:58

Could she have wafer thin ham Barbara? grin

www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdXayLlOs10

Nagoo Mon 13-May-13 12:41:37

There is prawn in prawn crackers, surprisingly.

I don't think it's even about the vegetarian thing. If a stranger tried to get my child to eat anything so forcefully that it made her cry, then I'd be having serious words.

SoupDragon Mon 13-May-13 12:45:20

There is no bacon in Frazzles.

MarmaladeTwatkins Mon 13-May-13 12:46:55

THERE IS NO CRAB IN CRAB STICKS <shakes with rage>

LadyBeagleEyes Mon 13-May-13 12:47:46

There is no chicken in roast chicken crisps.

MrsMelons Mon 13-May-13 12:52:46

It is all so confusing, I offered my friends child (who is vegetarian) some haribo and she is not allowed those but roast chicken crisps and crab sticks are ok confused

SoupDragon Mon 13-May-13 12:54:39

Because Haribo contain gelatin and roast chicken crisps contain no meat.

No idea about crab sticks other than they have no crab.

IHideVegInRice Mon 13-May-13 12:56:13

The "I won't tell your mum" part is deliberately undermining your values and I would be (privately) going mental. I would be calm in front of the mother though and ask an open question about what happened..along the lines of, jolly good party the other day mrs blah, DD really enjoyed it, but was a bit confused about some ham sandwiches? That way she knows you know something but you're not marching in there at risk of getting it wrong. FWIW we do not have pork, and while I wouldn't be horrified if DCs chose to eat it at a party I would be if it was forced on them, or they were made to feel like weirdos.

mummytime Mon 13-May-13 12:56:18

Chicken and Mushroom Pot Noodle (no other variety of instant noodles though) is endorsed by the Vegetarian Society!

BlessedDespair Mon 13-May-13 12:57:05

I'm an odd one, if it's touched any form of pig meat I won't touch it but if it's say a chicken or beef sandwich I could remove that meat and still use the bread. No idea why, I've been like that since I was a child confused

I personally wouldn't want my dc going to a house with so little regard for them, or at least would limit it to non meal times

MrsMelons Mon 13-May-13 12:58:36

just to clarify - I had no idea re the haribo, I would never offer a child who I knew to be vegetarian something that contained meat.

I think it is a bit weird to eat chicken flavour crisps if you are vegetarian though.

BlessedDespair Mon 13-May-13 12:58:37

mummytime -It's all soy though isn't it? It doesn't mean it tastes any less cardboardy

BlessedDespair Mon 13-May-13 12:59:39

Not really MrsMelons as there's no meat beef and mustard crisps are the best though

BlessedDespair Mon 13-May-13 13:00:18

Did you know that prawn cocktail pombears are not suitable for vegetarians?

ivykaty44 Mon 13-May-13 13:02:19

I would very angry at anyone telling my dd to keep a secret from me.

i would say to the lady - what is this about you telling my dd to eat ham and then you will keep it secret form me? Give her chance to come up with her side of things

but let her know secrets and meat are not tolerated in your household

Moominsarehippos Mon 13-May-13 13:04:00

Most prawn cocktail/crackers have something un-veggie in it (could be prawn...could be goat...could be donkey, who knows?).

There's lots of 'hidden nannimules' in foods. In ye olden days, most breadsticks had lard in them.

WoTmania Mon 13-May-13 13:04:59

Gah - sounds like one of those people who doesn't beleive that children would ever happily be vege of their own accord and therefore you must be forcing it on her.
I would be having words too.

MrsMelons Mon 13-May-13 13:06:05

I think I mean from a taste point of view (although not sure meat crisps actually taste like meat anyway).

I definitely don't eat quorn and wouldn't if it was a crisp flavour grin

MarmaladeTwatkins Mon 13-May-13 13:06:24

"but let her know secrets and meat are not tolerated in your household"

Actually LOLing grin

"We'll have no MEAT OR SECRETS in THIS house!"

grin

IHideVegInRice Mon 13-May-13 13:08:12

I don't "get" quorn?

MrsMelons Mon 13-May-13 13:08:46

I must say I have often privately wondered about a childs decision to be vegetarian as I do feel any child should be able to make choices themselves however it is absolutely unthinkable to force a child to eat meat or anything else and would never do this.

That is not to say that many children who are vegetarian haven't made that decision themselves of course - I am just saying I have wondered about it.

Scholes34 Mon 13-May-13 13:09:17

MrsMelons - get thee to an M&S and buy some Veggie Percys. They are so much nicer than the usual ones and the Percys of choice chez Scholes. They contain pectin as the gelling agent, rather than gelatin.

MrsMelons Mon 13-May-13 13:09:54

me neither IHide - its quite unpleasant IMO.

MrsMelons Mon 13-May-13 13:11:06

I will have to of course try the veggie Percys myself first - just to make sure they are ok grin

BlessedDespair Mon 13-May-13 13:13:17

I don't get quorn either, I don't eat meat so why would I eat a fake alternative and it tastes weird and chewy

IHideVegInRice Mon 13-May-13 13:14:37

I just don't understand why it exists... if DCs were eating quorn sausages because they taste/look etc "the same" as normal pig sausages I'd be thinking that a) it's "cheating" the do-not-eat-pork rule and b) why bother to have a substitute at all, if the rule has already been broken?

IHideVegInRice Mon 13-May-13 13:15:40

BlessedDespair...YES <highfive>

MrsMelons Mon 13-May-13 13:16:20

The texture is like mushrooms - I just can't eat it.

I did have quorn mince in a chilli once and the texture was ok but it was so bland even with all the chilli bits in it. Poor DH has never got over it and always jokes now with my friend who made it that he will never provide vegetarian food for her at ours as she made him eat quorn!

IHideVegInRice Mon 13-May-13 13:19:39

Sorry to hijack OP grin

I just think..you've made a decision for your young child, and an adult has potentially tried to undermine it. It's up to you, and later your DD, to consider whether that decision is the correct one - not some hamwidge brandishing busy body.

TwistTee Mon 13-May-13 13:22:39

I'm surprised anyone is questioning your 4 yr olds version of events. My dd is the same age and is very capable of remembering exactly what someone has said to her. You know your child and you no doubt can tell when she isn't telling the truth. With a 4yr old, this is very easy to determine.
What she may misunderstand is the intent, but not the words. I'm afraid that the fact that the adult said, "I won't tell your mum" shows exactly what her intent was.
I agree that she probably thinks you are forcing your dd to be a vegetarian and does not approve. Ridiculous, isn't it.
And why do people find it hard to believe an adult could behave this badly?

I would not confront her. It will make no difference to such an opinionated person. If you go mental on her, she will either imply your dd misunderstood or use it to justify her warped sense of her own importance in trying to 'improve' your dd's diet. Instead, I would heap praise on your dd for maintaining her refusal and explain that the lady did something wrong and sometimes adults do this.

Scholes34 Mon 13-May-13 13:26:35

OP - someone asks down thread whether you would have minded if your DD had tried the hamwich and liked it. A friend in a veggie and both her children were veggie until her DS at the age of 5 discovered ham at birthday parties and couldn't get enough of it. My friend was fine with him eating the ham, but he understood it wouldn't be served at home.

My DS at the age of 11 decided to become a vegetarian. As difficult as it sometimes makes meal times, I respect his decision. He eats Quorn, but whatever shape it comes in, it still tastes like cardboard.

MarmaladeTwatkins Mon 13-May-13 13:27:00

DH eats Quorn as he is a vegetarian for ethical reasons rather than taste reasons. He genuinely thinks that the burgers/mince is on a par with actual real burgers and mince hmm I cook vegetarian food often and would much prefer to use just vegetables and pulses. I love chilli with just beans/peppers/mushrooms/squash etc. I don't like the spongey Quorn mince. Vile.

witchface Mon 13-May-13 13:33:35

I'd. Be very unhappy with someone who said don't tell your mum. They know what they are doing is wrong or they wouldn't have to say it. I have tried to instill in my dd that if someone says this she must tell me, in my case because i know it is something abusers say.

Startail Mon 13-May-13 13:39:46

I think a quiet word is indicated, I'm certain neither my veggi DSIL or my Jewish DF would be at all happy if their dietary choices for their DCs are undermined.

I'm always very careful to avoid beef and gelatine for my neurotic BSE obsessed DF and her DCs even though I thing she's a bit neurotic.

At least until Y5 parents views on such things go, as DCs gain independence and move towards buying what they like at senior school, whether you tell tales to mum or not is a mute point.

differentnameforthis Mon 13-May-13 13:49:24

If a hamwidge is what I just googled (see Labootin wasn't hard) then they look revolting & I wouldn't feed my children that even though they eat meat!

differentnameforthis Mon 13-May-13 13:51:05

Obv not what I googled then...But I like the idea of calling it a hamwich..

Think I might have a chocwich for lunch tomorrow..

differentnameforthis Mon 13-May-13 13:53:04

I'm surprised anyone is questioning your 4 yr olds version of events

My daughter is 4 & can recall a scary amount of our recent trip overseas & will tell various stories to people about the things she saw while on holiday. Her recall is amazing!

differentnameforthis Mon 13-May-13 13:53:26

I say recent trip, it was December.

CSIJanner Mon 13-May-13 13:56:49

So party mum ruined the party experience for your vegetarian child by trying to persuade her to eat and hamwich, then told her to keep it a secret from her parents?

I'm amazed and quite in awe you didn't ring her up and bite her head off. Fair play to you. YANBU and I do think some gentle questions around the intimation, then if she did ignore your parental choices, firmly put her right.

Moominsarehippos Mon 13-May-13 14:06:19

DS loves quorn sausages and won't touch real ones. He will eat any animal going though.

Children of 4 will not have perfect recall, especially if under stress/worried/upset. I remember writing an essay on child witnesses a zillion years ago when I was a student and thinking 'well I had perfect recall at that age'. Mum corrected me saying 'no, you just think you do at that age'. And as I say to DH 'you're leading the witness...' when he cross examines DS over something that happened.

Anyhoo, I remember being stressed out at a friends house by her batty grandpa who demanded (very insistant!) that I go home and tell mum that she was 'a Geordie' (he'd asked where she was from). 'She's a Geordie. Tell her she's a Geordie. Tell her I said she was a Geordie...'. I had no bloody idea what the old bugger was going on about and assumed it was something rude, and that he was trying to get me into trouble. I was a really sissy kid and was all knotted in my stomach that this scary old man was trying to get me to say something naughty. I was about 3.5/4 years old then (I'd been left there as everyone else was at a family funeral).

Mum had just cremated grandpa so I assumed she wouldn't want to be called a rude name, so I didn't tell her.

Startail Mon 13-May-13 14:12:38

I think a quiet word is indicated, I'm certain neither my veggi DSIL or my Jewish DF would be at all happy if their dietary choices for their DCs are undermined.

I'm always very careful to avoid beef and gelatine for my neurotic BSE obsessed DF and her DCs even though I thing she's a bit neurotic.

At least until Y5 parents views on such things go, as DCs gain independence and move towards buying what they like at senior school, whether you tell tales to mum or not is a mute point.

Startail Mon 13-May-13 14:14:10

Opps sorry, wrong button

missuswife Mon 13-May-13 14:19:09

It's the "don't tell your mum" that would really get my back up.

Moominsarehippos Mon 13-May-13 14:31:01

I've taught DS that we have nosecrets. For goodness sake, I'd never ask a child to keep a secret (beyond 'don't tell dad what I've bought him for his birthday). It so wrong!

SaggyOldClothCatPuss Mon 13-May-13 14:38:49

Im NOT a veggie and vever will be, but Im fuming for you OP!

rosepettel Mon 13-May-13 15:16:19

thenx mumsnet i did ring her and she did not know it was a hamwidge i said why did dd say it was a hamwidge she said it was a vege hamwidge i said no [id been there half the way thru even help put the chrisps in bowl and even did say about vege stuff -theres lots of vege stuff for dd and dd and other kids- so i was double shock by this and no there was no vege ham there was eggwidge and cheese and ham] then she admited it and said she was just piss but she did not seem very drunk to me and thats no exuse

background info
last year i did see her tell her older dd to just put them on youre head and walk out about some sun glasses for the woman [shop lifting] i dont wana be bias but it suggests things mabey i dont know

any way my dd age 4 and dd age 6 are best friends with her dd of same ages and its nice but mabey i should try getting them round here more as dd was upset and stressed by the hamwidge thing

dc are veges and if they wanted to eat meat then ok but they dont .. there grandad eats this for breakfast bacon black pudding sausadge and the beans with mini sausadges in ......and even he never trys making my dcs eat meat !!

hope she never does this again ..she said sorry but dont think she takes it seriously

rosepettel Mon 13-May-13 15:17:18

oops that should say-

i did ring her and first she said she did not know it was a hamwidge

CSIJanner Mon 13-May-13 15:34:32

Sounds like the mum is playing bullsh!t bingo with you OP. she must have realised the moment your child started crying. The child may be friends but it might be time to cool things and back away as she clearly doesn't respect you, your children and from your last post, ownership of property.

SoupDragon Mon 13-May-13 15:44:30

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

nenevomito Mon 13-May-13 15:53:42

Its a SANDWICH. ARGH.

Cheese Sandwich
Egg Sandwich
Ham Sandwich.

I'm going to have to hide the sodding thread before I loseitwidge.

nenevomito Mon 13-May-13 15:54:33

hang on - so now she also tried to get your child to steal.

hmm

nenevomito Mon 13-May-13 15:56:02

Sorry - HER child to steal. Still hmm.

rosepettel Mon 13-May-13 16:00:45

well her 15 year old dd

Fuckwittery Mon 13-May-13 16:02:26

eggwidge grin

what is a vege hamwidge?

maybe the OP#s friend has a speech impediment and pronounces "sandwich"= "hamwidge"
might account for all the confusion

Moominsarehippos Mon 13-May-13 16:11:33

Sangwidge (or 'sanger') is Glaswegian (of that helps)

rosepettel Mon 13-May-13 16:38:18

with vege ham but no it did not
mabey i will just try getting her dds round mine more insted of there mums to play with my dds i just dont know ..
and no it was her 15 year old dd but its still bad as the woman could get them her self not that thats good or she could do with out .. its not food you dont need them and her dd could got in trouble but she did not but mabey a different time she will ..

Wuldric Mon 13-May-13 16:39:05

I am confused by hamwich, and bemused by the thread, but did I just glean that the hostesswich was drunk in charge of young children? Surely that's a bit of a worry?

MrsMelons Mon 13-May-13 16:42:27

the overuse of 'widge' is now making me giggle for no apparent reason - do people actually use the words hamwidge, eggwidge etc? I really have never heard of it.

rosepettel Mon 13-May-13 16:43:50

well it was a birth day party but and she said she was drunk but she was not even that drunk when i came and got the dds and there was other adults there and not all were drinking

rosepettel Mon 13-May-13 16:44:30

there were 3 types of samwidge

TheSecondComing Mon 13-May-13 16:44:31

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BlackAffronted Mon 13-May-13 16:45:03

I am loving all this hamwidge/eggwidge talk grin

nenevomito Mon 13-May-13 16:46:01

Can I give you a widgie BlackAffronted?

BlackAffronted Mon 13-May-13 16:46:11

Isn't a widge a very small penis? <lowers the tone>

nenevomito Mon 13-May-13 16:47:17

Now that's a very unfortunate xpost isn't it grin

rosepettel Mon 13-May-13 16:48:03

who has 1

MrsMelons Mon 13-May-13 16:48:45

its a SANDWICH!

Also - I am missing something here, I usually get drunk for grown ups birthday parties, not 6 year olds. I must remember its ok for childrens parties too.

Buzzardbird Mon 13-May-13 16:49:10

'samwidge' priceless grin

MrsMelons Mon 13-May-13 16:50:36

The 'hamwidges' have now crossed threads. 'Naice' hamwidges have been mentioned - as has Sharon. MN has gone mad today!

cozietoesie Mon 13-May-13 16:53:00

It's a 'piece' Moomins. (Am feeling over-widged. grin)

rosepettel Mon 13-May-13 16:57:36

mrsmelons the kids were not drinking .. i dont get pissed at my kids bdays but she was not pissed she was lying i seen her she was not even drunk

FattyMcChubster Mon 13-May-13 16:58:23

SoupDragon, are you thinking what I'm thinking?

Mindyourownbusiness Mon 13-May-13 17:02:08

Phonejacker anyone ??

Will try and do a link.

Am crying with laughter here. Please don't say Samwidge again - l might need reviving.

Moominsarehippos Mon 13-May-13 17:02:48

Sangwidge is a posh piece. Pieces are generally jeely (so my dad used to say)

MrsMelons Mon 13-May-13 17:03:47

grin yes I realise that the kids weren't drinking - a badly worded post on my part on an otherwise very articulate and literate thread wink

cozietoesie Mon 13-May-13 17:04:55

Ah - sorry, Moomins. We're not posh, I'm afraid. grin

SoupDragon Mon 13-May-13 17:07:28

Probably, Fatty

Mindyourownbusiness Mon 13-May-13 17:12:39
askaskask Mon 13-May-13 17:26:01

its a bit early for half term, isn't it?

rosepettel Mon 13-May-13 17:26:19

fonejacker so funny

yap the kids dont drink

no there wasnt vege hamwidges i seen the 1s there when i drop my kids off

rosepettel Mon 13-May-13 17:27:02

when i say dont drink i mean of course they dont !

IHideVegInRice Mon 13-May-13 17:35:32

Oh my gosh..I went away for a while, and came back to find this had moved onto Phonejacker, eggwidges and VERY underage drinking grin I need to get on here more often!!!

GingerBlondecat Mon 13-May-13 17:39:19

Are you Really sure OP ? grin

Drinking is a great way to Survive Children's Birthday Parties.

I jest.
I love the Hamwidge. haha corker of an idea.

rosepettel Mon 13-May-13 17:40:28

she did drink but not get very drunk

tipsy

Wuldric Mon 13-May-13 17:42:18

I'm sorry I missed this party. What with eggwidges and hamwidges and general tipsiness.

Mindyourownbusiness Mon 13-May-13 18:06:00

Come on in Wuldric

Vege or Hamwidge ?

Grab a chair, we're watching a Doovde smile

Tweasels Mon 13-May-13 18:09:29

This is priceless.

picnicbasketcase Mon 13-May-13 18:15:42

She sounds piss.

Tweasels Mon 13-May-13 18:19:57

Pisswidge

rosepettel Mon 13-May-13 18:27:15

my fave not mm mmmm

AvonCallingBarksdale Mon 13-May-13 18:33:19

Between this and the "playdate gone bad" thread, I have wept buckets. Thank you to the OPs! grin

Wuldric Mon 13-May-13 18:35:38

Ooh

<pulls up a chair>

Mine's a hamwidge. What are we watching?

LEMisdisappointed Mon 13-May-13 18:40:10

link to playdate gone bad thread?? pleease, so i can read both this and that at my leisure later on smile Love hamwich, it just works!

Wuldric Mon 13-May-13 18:41:40

playdate gone bad thread

You can only go on there if you are Spartacus

SarahAndFuck Mon 13-May-13 19:10:15

How much widge would a wich witch widge if a wich witch would widge wich?

Salmotrutta Mon 13-May-13 19:18:00

<crying with laughter>

spidersandslugs Mon 13-May-13 19:21:35

What is a hamwidge ?

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Mon 13-May-13 19:23:18

It's a lot like a yoniwidge

rosepettel Mon 13-May-13 19:23:59

i did not know mumsnets love hamwidge so much

it bread

ham

bread

grin

ComposHat Mon 13-May-13 19:29:08

Was she t-rexing after force feeding the hamwich to the 'vege' child?

spidersandslugs Mon 13-May-13 19:31:29

Oh, ok so is it a bit different to a ham sandwich then ?

<roars with laughter>

<hilarious>

rosepettel Mon 13-May-13 19:32:35

she didnt force feed she did try but dd did not eat it and yes she is a vege

rosepettel Mon 13-May-13 19:40:03

yap she did

BMW6 Mon 13-May-13 19:43:44

shock.......just.......shock

apostropheuse Mon 13-May-13 19:46:55

I think I might have cracked a rib laughing here. grin

This thread is a classic.

Perhaps the party host was so drunk at the birthday party that she couldn't pronounce sandwich and it came out as hamwidge.

It's the only feasible answer.

(Do any of you Scottish MNers remember the Karen Dunbar show? The part where she used to say "I smell shite?" - Just wondering! grin)

it bread

ham

bread
_______________________________________

No - it's

Head

Wall

Head

Wall

Fenton Mon 13-May-13 19:50:34

I bloody LOVE the descriptive of a hamwidge...

Bread

Ham

Bread

lolz

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Mon 13-May-13 19:51:59

So.. Do you also say eggwidge? Saladwidge?

What do you do when they're more than one food in the bread?!? Widge may--widge--hem!!!!

Fenton Mon 13-May-13 19:52:42

This thread is particularly funny for me because I made handwiches for my boys yesterday..

Bread

Ham cut into the shape of hands

Bread

.. they thought it was vair hilair. True story.

hamwidges
chrisps
sausadges

sounds like someone was knocking back the vino

rosepettel Mon 13-May-13 21:25:09

ha no vine for me im carring a mini rose pettel

she defo had vine thou the woman did

mmm hand shape that is artistic

Mindyourownbusiness Mon 13-May-13 21:50:44

Ah now l thought this was the playdate gone bad thread.

I have no dry knickers left now so l best not grin.

Wuldric we watching a repeat of Bread Ham Bread it's on BuBuCu HuD.

Mindyourownbusiness Mon 13-May-13 21:55:21

<runs in pinches 'vair hilair' from Fentons post and runs back out>

Wuldric Mon 13-May-13 22:02:22

Hats off to you OP, this has been a cracking thread

If I am not mistaken, you are also the OP on the 'playdate gone bad' thread, aren't you? You've got a very distinctive style smile

Salmotrutta Mon 13-May-13 22:06:10

Vine.

<cracks up>

SarahAndFuck Mon 13-May-13 22:07:57

We know why the sick child on the play date thread was sick now.

It was force fed a hamwidge.

Salmotrutta Mon 13-May-13 22:09:16

LOL

rosepettel Mon 13-May-13 22:12:48

you mumsnets have got a idea about me and yap it can be funny saying about ham but no im not that thread im new to mumnets

but thenx [smil]

Salmotrutta Mon 13-May-13 22:15:11

<crying again>

Those typos are the absolute best!

grin

Salmotrutta Mon 13-May-13 22:16:39

Mumnets (Naice net curtains?)

Thenx (posh thanks?)

Smil (I give up grin)

matilda101 Mon 13-May-13 22:17:57

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

WafflyVersatile Mon 13-May-13 22:18:24

I love hamwidges. Simple but delicious.

rosepettel Mon 13-May-13 22:18:43

oops it my phone

Salmotrutta Mon 13-May-13 22:19:26

Ouch matilda - bit mean there, eh? hmm

idiuntno57 Mon 13-May-13 22:19:46

i think a samwidge sounds like a good sort of pet. Bit fluffy. Bit bigger than a hamster. Smaller than a rabbit.

Salmotrutta Mon 13-May-13 22:20:14

No worries OP - the typos are excellent! grin

Mindyourownbusiness Mon 13-May-13 22:20:18

I am howling now at [smil], l think l have actually lost it now.

Your walcome OP. grin

rosepettel Mon 13-May-13 22:20:32

being a vege is not eating meat of course i knows how to be a vege

idiuntno57 Mon 13-May-13 22:22:08

but do you have a rotostak?

squeakytoy Mon 13-May-13 22:25:09

It is a sandwich... not a fucking hamwidge, eggwidge, cheesewidge or any other fucking type of widge...

sandwich

sandwich

sandwich

or just call it a butty if that is easier for you..

Salmotrutta Mon 13-May-13 22:25:18

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

matilda101 Mon 13-May-13 22:25:25

Rosepettel - just out of interest do you drink milk?

squeakytoy Mon 13-May-13 22:26:04

and it is veggie, or vegetarian.. vege is NOT a word..

can I also point out that "pettel" is actual petal too..

idiuntno57 Mon 13-May-13 22:26:51

they don't have little wheels. Just jump up and down going eek.

Salmotrutta Mon 13-May-13 22:26:57

She didnt say she was a vegan matilda.

What's your point?

rosepettel Mon 13-May-13 22:27:54

why do you want to know if i drink the milk

Mindyourownbusiness Mon 13-May-13 22:28:02

Does it 'yap' idiuntno


Vair hilair this isn't it !

<checks round for Fenton)

Salmotrutta Mon 13-May-13 22:28:08

squeaky - can you not just leave it?

idiuntno57 Mon 13-May-13 22:29:56

no. just 'eek ' except when you put Lady Gaga on the stereo then it puts its head in its paws and weeps.

real tears.

TSSDNCOP Mon 13-May-13 22:32:23

Poor Squeaky you need a little lay down. Have a brew and a samwidge <generic emoticon>.

matilda101 Mon 13-May-13 22:32:49

Just wondered! I suppose my question should have been 'why are you a vegetarian?'

Salmotrutta Mon 13-May-13 22:33:21

<chuckle>

idiuntno57 Mon 13-May-13 22:33:28

you can't eat a samwidge. Unless you are Freddie Starr.

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Mon 13-May-13 22:40:11

*idiuntno57 Mon 13-May-13 22:19:46
i think a samwidge sounds like a good sort of pet. Bit fluffy. Bit bigger than a hamster. Smaller than a rabbit.*

Weeping here. My stomach hurts!

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Mon 13-May-13 22:41:36

*idiuntno57 Mon 13-May-13 22:33:28
you can't eat a samwidge. Unless you are Freddie Starr.*

It's a well known fact Ozzy Osborne used to bite the heads off of samwidges on stage.

idiuntno57 Mon 13-May-13 22:46:01

OMG.

Before we know it we'll all be biting into samwidges.

Like it is perfectly normal.

SarahAndFuck Mon 13-May-13 22:49:49

I heard on the news that they found traces of samwidges in the supermarket budget range burgers.

HamAlive Mon 13-May-13 22:49:50

You rang?

Salmotrutta Mon 13-May-13 22:52:57

grin

Mindyourownbusiness Mon 13-May-13 22:55:59

Ham

You're alive.

Mindyourownbusiness Mon 13-May-13 22:58:07

You are a sight for sore eyes, a widge over troubled waters.

perplexedpirate Mon 13-May-13 23:01:05

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

rosepettel Mon 13-May-13 23:01:59

yap i rang

Wuldric Mon 13-May-13 23:06:37

Ah there you are.

I thought you'd got lost hunting widges.

OrangeFireandGoldashes Mon 13-May-13 23:09:01

I've just read through the entire thread and am weeping with laughter.

Wanna hamwidge. 'Cept I don't like ham.

Salmotrutta Mon 13-May-13 23:16:26

perplexedpirate - LOL grin

You just made me snort Horlicks out of my nose!

<that's a lie. I don't drink Horlicks>

Mindyourownbusiness Mon 13-May-13 23:17:25

grin @ '*Cept*'

Mind you am laughing at everything and anything by now.

Salmotrutta Mon 13-May-13 23:17:40

rose - you mustn't "yap"! grin

You must "eek"!

SarahAndFuck Mon 13-May-13 23:17:59

Horwidge!

Moominsarehippos Mon 13-May-13 23:18:31

Widgegate.

My niece used to say samwidge before she could say sangwidge.

Salmotrutta Mon 13-May-13 23:18:54

Or Ovalwidge?

Horwidge is just plain ruuuuude.

Salmotrutta Mon 13-May-13 23:19:38

Oh gawd, my Gran used to say "sangwidge"

LOL

SarahAndFuck Mon 13-May-13 23:20:33

It is, isn't it.

Perhaps it's what you drink when you have pavolva.

I'm going to say it again. Horwidge. grin

Mindyourownbusiness Mon 13-May-13 23:20:39

Its like a whole new langwidge.



Ok , ok l'll get mi coat.

Salmotrutta Mon 13-May-13 23:20:57

Well, I have had a reet good laff.

But I must away to Bedwidge.

Salmotrutta Mon 13-May-13 23:21:37

<wheezes with laughter>

grin

Wuldric Mon 13-May-13 23:22:54

langwidge

<Roars>

SarahAndFuck Mon 13-May-13 23:23:24

I think you mean

Bed

Hamwidge

Bed

Don't you?

Moominsarehippos Mon 13-May-13 23:23:45

I had a jamwidge earlier. It was very nice.

Tweasels Mon 13-May-13 23:27:11

Ah, mumsnet has been brilliant today. I think Widge may be the new Yoni.

Mindyourownbusiness Mon 13-May-13 23:27:17

and me too with my husbandage who mght want to wag his appendage .

Mindyourownbusiness Mon 13-May-13 23:28:09

Chance'd be a fine thing.

YoniOrNotYoni Mon 13-May-13 23:28:39

Am crying here. Just woke dh up by shaking the bed laughing.

*It bread

Ham

Bread*

Crying I tewkl you!

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Mon 13-May-13 23:28:57

Some of these words sound like utensils/magical creatures out of Harry Potter. grin

Salmotrutta Mon 13-May-13 23:31:09

Quite right Sarah grin

And I really am off to bed now!

YoniWidge Mon 13-May-13 23:33:14

<shows off fancy new name>

SarahAndFuck Mon 13-May-13 23:35:32

Says "Nightwidge" to Salmon.

Buzzardbird Mon 13-May-13 23:35:40

Op, I hope your dc got home from the party on time, not 2 1/2 hrs late?..I'd be furious!

pinkyredrose Mon 13-May-13 23:37:39

There's a takeaway by me called Uncle Sams . They do veggie bacon Samwiches . Honest they do, they're lush too.

rosepettel Mon 13-May-13 23:40:16

my dc did be home at the right time

pinkyredrose Mon 13-May-13 23:42:07

OP I'm your biggest fan, this thread is awesome!

ComposHat Mon 13-May-13 23:42:39

But do they do vege ones too pinky?

I have a friend in Glasgow who doesn't eat meat, she's vege-weegie.

pinkyredrose Mon 13-May-13 23:43:56

Oh yes vegewidge bacon Samwiches are the best!

pinkyredrose Mon 13-May-13 23:46:56

My mum used to call my sarnies she made for my school packed lunch sandwichiches..

edam Mon 13-May-13 23:49:06

Love 'hamwidge', I'll suggest to dh that's what we should call them from now on.

But do not love aggressive meat eaters who think it's somehow big or clever to deceive vegetarians or try to 'turn' veggie children. Nasty, underhand and exploitative. I can forgive my Grandmother for trying to sneak ham or prawns on to my plate (with the excuse that they are 'practically vegetarian') because I know she was concerned about me - although personally I think her chip pan full of lard was more of a health issue - but trying to force a vegetarian child to eat meat against their will is abusive. Not in a 'call the cops' way, but still an act of abuse.

rosepettel Mon 13-May-13 23:53:47

ok mumsnets i got some more back ground info on the woman

Just now · Pissed rite off at a moanin twat All that cus of a bit of ham LMFAO go n cry to ya mumma mwah luv u 2 xxxx LOL inbox me 2 find out xxxx 2 Likes · 4 Comments Like Comment

that off her facebook

OrangeFireandGoldashes Mon 13-May-13 23:55:53

Don't get into a Facebook or email row with her. You might end up bombarded with spamwidge.

Lj8893 Mon 13-May-13 23:58:13

Mmmm I really fancy a samwidge now, ham, jam, egg I really don't mind just as long as its a widge .

Tweasels Tue 14-May-13 00:04:05

What do the comments say rosepettel?

CheerfulYank Tue 14-May-13 00:19:06

Pmsl at all of this.

I have been eating tomato sandwiches all day...that's just too unwieldy to say though. Tomwidge, praps.

TheFutureMrsB Tue 14-May-13 00:19:25

Hamwiches are a real food you know?? blush my favourite slobbing food!

rosepettel Tue 14-May-13 00:21:21

Is this about who I think it is? Tell her to fuck off Like · 26 minutes ago yap it about me .. she upset my child .. what will you do if it was you .. Like · More 24 minutes ago

rosepettel Tue 14-May-13 00:22:39

there the comments tweasers up there i got rid of names to stay safe on line

TheFutureMrsB Tue 14-May-13 00:23:49

Sorry I can see they have already been shown on the first few pages blush teach me not to read it all!

I think you would be better off ignoring the FB messages as they will only wind you up more! Stop looking!

She shouldn't have done it though, I would be fuming too if I was veggie. angry

Tweasels Tue 14-May-13 00:25:40

Have nothing more to do with these people. They are cuntwidges. Live a long and prosperous meat free life and keep coming on mumsnet with made up words.

jacks365 Tue 14-May-13 00:31:33

Someone a few years ago did the same thing with dd3 but got short shift from her. Dd3 was 11 at the time and stood up for herself and told the mum that being vegetarian was her own choice and not something forced on her. Very true i'm an out and out carnivore and catering for one veggie is hard going but i do admire her determination and perseverance so i support her fully. You and your dc do not need that kind of influence in your life.

Hamwidge Tue 14-May-13 00:36:07

Tell them to shove their facebook statuses up their arsewidge

GreenEggsAndNichts Tue 14-May-13 00:40:51

Hamwidge is 100x better than "sammich." I approve.

Pandemoniaa Tue 14-May-13 00:41:05

I fear that I shall never ever be able to look at the comestible formerly known as a ham sandwich in the same light again. Hamwidges it is!

But yes, as someone as said upthreadwidge, these people are cuntwidges of the highest order.

I inkthidge isthidge readthidge is an ittlelidge ishyfidge.

GingerBlondecat Tue 14-May-13 01:31:43

Oi, Gives us their FB , we can Netwidge them

pollywollydoodle Tue 14-May-13 02:04:41

it
bread
ham
bread

quote of the year grin grin

amazingmumof6 Tue 14-May-13 02:16:55

invite her kid round and forcefeed her with stuff she wouldn't eat....too cruel?

your poor girl, is she ok?

MusicalEndorphins Tue 14-May-13 05:31:46

rosepettel, your so called friend is an a$$. I would not bother with her, and would block her on facebook, she sounds like a trouble maker.

SoupDragon Tue 14-May-13 07:25:01

she sounds like a trouble maker.

She sounds like a fictional character to me.

Moominsarehippos Tue 14-May-13 08:08:18

Is she a trollwidge?

Ahhhwidge. Am disapppointwidge. Sadwidge.

MadBusLady Tue 14-May-13 08:10:52

Stop abusing the English langwidge, all of you.

SarahAndFuck Tue 14-May-13 08:11:06

Tweasles has made my morning with the word cuntwidge. grin

Joiningthegang Tue 14-May-13 08:19:48

Thank you mums net - on making packed lunch this morning I asked dc if they would like a hamwidge or a chessewidge - they didn't even question it and made their choices

Tunawidge
Marmitewiche

What's not to love

amazingmumof6 Tue 14-May-13 08:21:18

chickwidge must be mentioned

ginslinger Tue 14-May-13 08:28:07

I think I may name change to ginwidge in honour of this thread. I never name change

Moominsarehippos Tue 14-May-13 08:29:37

I made a chickenquorn'ntomatosaladwidge for lunch. I had an open honeywidge for brekkie, and ds had a peanutbutterwidge. DH had toast (boringwidge).

amazingmumof6 Tue 14-May-13 08:32:02

I also like porwidge

MadBusLady Tue 14-May-13 08:39:18

"boringwidge" grin

CoffeeBucks Tue 14-May-13 08:56:53

I has toastwidge, moomins. Am I boring too? sad

Might have some porrwidge when I get to work & make my coffee
widge

CoffeeBucks Tue 14-May-13 08:57:22

*I had

Moominsarehippos Tue 14-May-13 08:57:35

We actually call it paw-widge!

I did announce that I was getting my coatwidge this morning. Nobody batted an eye (either they don't listen to a word I say or I usually talk guffwidge).

drfayray Tue 14-May-13 09:15:29

And this is why I adore MN.

Am having a baconwidge right now.

It is lushwidge.

This reminds me of pig latin..ah happy days with school friends talking in a so called secret langwidge..

Lazyjaney Tue 14-May-13 09:40:58

"She sounds like a fictional character to me"

Was thinking the same, there's something about the langwidge....

But thanks OP for the adwidge....

BreadHamBread Tue 14-May-13 09:46:09

Ahem - check me out ^

My 3 have taken muffins for lunch....muffwidge anyone?

Tweasels Tue 14-May-13 09:50:09

Muffwidge?

Bread

Muff

Bread

Ha ha, not for me this morning.

BreadHamBread Tue 14-May-13 09:53:01

They were more-

Muff

Cheese

Muff

Of course other filling options are available.

Purple2012 Tue 14-May-13 09:53:51

Is it just me or does anyone else have trouble understanding what the op is saying?

LifeIsBetterInFlipFlops Tue 14-May-13 10:01:22

Langwidge...made my daysmile

I am loving the widge too. I know it is supposed to be sandwich - but there's nothing wrong with having fun with langwidge, imo.

Oblomov Tue 14-May-13 10:21:25

Ha ha. Love it.

PleaseDontEatMyShoe Tue 14-May-13 10:57:24

blush have always called a boring sandwich a dullwidge and a BRILLIANT sandwich a kingwidge. I have no idea why blush

Muff

Cheese

Muff

..

...

Sootikin?

Nicolaeus Tue 14-May-13 12:08:14

Am eating my lunch (pastawidge) wihlst reading this thread and trying not to laugh in the office - giving myself indigestwidge.

Buzzardbird Tue 14-May-13 12:14:35

Call her a 'bitchwich' on fb op! Goooo on!

GingerBlondecat Tue 14-May-13 12:16:25

Purple2012Tue 14-May-13 09:53:51

Is it just me or does anyone else have trouble understanding what the op is saying?

````````````````````````````````
I am in Australia and I understood her just fine.....................

Now I wonder if she isn't an Aussie. We do pup up at the strangest moments grin wine

Mindyourownbusiness Tue 14-May-13 12:33:32

Thing is we are all learning a new langwidge - Widgish.

How in the name of all that is good and holy did I miss this?

Pasta here for lunch today though. No Widges. Of any description.

SarahAndFuck Tue 14-May-13 12:44:55

What are you having on the pasta? Can you widge some of the sauce between two pasta shapes?

Go on, pastawidge your lunch, you know you want to. Don't just eat it, widge it!

amazingmumof6 Tue 14-May-13 12:48:37

how do we rename a burger then? beefwidge? bunwidge? sorry to any veggies, but it was yum! grin

I'm creased up with with laughter at this thread....I'm also still trying to get my head around how I read earlier in the thread that there is such a thing as vege ham. I did read that, yes? What the actual F is vegetarian ham???

<dimwidge here> smile

IfNotNowThenWhen Tue 14-May-13 12:54:13

Eggwidge. Brilliant.

Also loving sausidge. And maybe sauswidge.

Emz8369 Tue 14-May-13 13:09:09

Whats a hamwidge?

rosepettel Tue 14-May-13 13:13:11

wow thenx so much mumsnets

the woman is a trouble maker but she lives so near

never really got on with her but dds are her dds best mate

yap i have block her fb now as she kept on argueing last night

SarahAndFuck Tue 14-May-13 13:13:31

I'm having beans on toastwidge now.

SarahAndFuck Tue 14-May-13 13:15:21

So now she's a blockwidge OP?

MadBusLady Tue 14-May-13 13:16:20

I hate bloody Facewidge, work of the devilwidge it is.

<reflexwidge>

I just had a porkwidge for lunch, lunch will not be boring for a while!! I asked DH if he wanted a porkwidge too an he just nodded and said that sounds good!!

Lucky your dd didn't eat it. After a while of being vegetarian the human body stops producing the enzymes needed to break down meat, so contrary to what she said you absolutely would have known. Your ds could have had quite a bad tummy from eating it.

I have veggie phases but I'm cautious when I'm segueing back into eating meat, white meat is easier on the stomach than red.

Is this turning into a quiche-widge? grin

Ullena Tue 14-May-13 13:57:46

Had a chicksalwidge for my lunch today, the dogs had the crustwidches grin

Tweasels Tue 14-May-13 14:02:19

Are you Australian OP?

Moominsarehippos Tue 14-May-13 14:02:56

I've had nadawidge for lunch so far. Am hungry for anythingwidge.

seeker Tue 14-May-13 14:05:51

"Lucky your dd didn't eat it. After a while of being vegetarian the human body stops producing the enzymes needed to break down meat, so contrary to what she said you absolutely would have known. Your ds could have had quite a bad tummy from eating it. "

I think this is a myth, actually.

Ullena Tue 14-May-13 14:15:02

Clearly wiches being the plural of widge and not a spelling error blush

Ullena Tue 14-May-13 14:15:46

Widches! Gah!

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Tue 14-May-13 14:20:10

Sweet Yoni in Heaven I crave a Subwidge envy

fuzzywuzzy Tue 14-May-13 14:20:14

seeker, I have a colleague at work who was a strict vegetarian, during a work lunch he accidentally ate food containing animal in it, he was really sick from it for the next day or so.

everlong Tue 14-May-13 14:23:08

I'm eating a hamwidge this very minute ( well it's a ciabbatta but let's not quibble )

Ullena Tue 14-May-13 14:24:50

DSIL is addicted to Subwidches...

everlong Tue 14-May-13 14:29:38

I think this is a liitle joke to cheer us up wink

Mabey.

edam Tue 14-May-13 14:31:02

seeker - the enzymes thing may be a myth, dunno, but there are certainly a range of experiences reported by people who go back to eating meat, from 'fine, no problems' to 'impossible to describe in polite society but I'd give it half an hour before you go anywhere near the loo if I were you'.

seeker Tue 14-May-13 14:36:18

Actually, I know that the enzyme thing is a myth. I was being polite. grin

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Tue 14-May-13 14:36:28

Ullena

Your DSIL and I have a lot in common... Italian bread, extra picklewidches... drools like a Mastiff

rosepettel Tue 14-May-13 14:59:14

not a joke wish it would be 1

yap some veges get ill from going back to meat

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Tue 14-May-13 15:02:58

shockshockshock[ewww]

THE HAMWIDGE EXISTS!!!

meatified.com/no-bread-bacon-egg-sandwich/

TSSDNCOP Tue 14-May-13 15:10:15

I just had a chicknpickwidge!

It was delish!

Ullena Tue 14-May-13 15:13:40

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen

Are you my DSIL?!!

grin

I've just read this thread start to finish, and said 'eggwidge' out loud which caused me to laugh so loud I woke my 4mth old ds4! And I'm in Aus so it's after midnight here. I plan to check with ds1&2 in the morning if they'd like hamwidges for lunch boxes and see if they notice! gringringrin

Mindyourownbusiness Tue 14-May-13 15:16:21

We've had some mileidge out of this thread - yap indeedy

Moominsarehippos Tue 14-May-13 15:25:30

Did someone say "picklewidge"? Gherkinwidges? Oh yumwidge.

YoniTime Tue 14-May-13 15:37:34

thenx OP for ur thread it provided many lols and I needed that today. [smil]

pollywollydoodle Tue 14-May-13 16:05:52

just had soup and a butterwidge...liked it so much i had some more with a pittapocketpicklewidge grin

Moominsarehippos Tue 14-May-13 16:28:38

I just had cake(widge)

I'm going to tescos for rubbishwidge because I've been working on a boring report all afternoon.

Moominsarehippos Tue 14-May-13 16:48:03

Tescos do a nice cheese'nonionwidge. Its about the only own-brand this they do that's edible.

LifeIsBetterInFlipFlops Tue 14-May-13 17:24:55

Yapwidge

KatoPotato Tue 14-May-13 17:26:02

I had naicehaminapartbakeddinnerrollwidge

Can you get a sandwidge widget?

FuckNugget Tue 14-May-13 18:18:52

Hamwidge is inspired!!! [smil]

Surely toast is just a toasted butterwidge?

Salmotrutta Tue 14-May-13 18:19:53

I got deleted shock

I was defending the OP too!

Crapwidge.

FuckNugget Tue 14-May-13 18:20:38

MNHQ, please can we have a hamwidge smilly? Pretty please.

FuckNugget Tue 14-May-13 18:27:08

On a serious note though op, I fell out with my DD's best friend. Her fault, not mine but I would say that. I agonised over it for ages, trying to forgive my ex friend for DD's sake, but I couldn't get past it. She has made new friends now and doesn't see ex-friend's DD anymore. In hindsight, it was the right decision. I just wish I'd come to that conclusion instead of letting the friendship die a slow and painful death.

Pombearwidge anyone?!

Pandemoniaa Tue 14-May-13 19:01:47

I had a particularly fine hamandcoleslawwidge today. Really touched the spot, so to speak.

katrinefonsmark Tue 14-May-13 19:10:07

You cam get shitwidges from certain subterranean sandwiches outlets.

katrinefonsmark Tue 14-May-13 19:15:25

OP - as my mum would have said the vulgar widge purveyor sounds common. Do you want your vegetarian offspring mixing with her sort?

rosepettel Tue 14-May-13 20:39:53

yap well dds are best friend with her dds i never been good friend with the woman but we live so near and dds are best mate with her dds

its inferiating

but ok

next time i will need to say they cant go

fritteringtwit Tue 14-May-13 21:57:17

Invite DDs friend round and force her to eat one of those Quorn roast things ?

{boak}

YoniTime Tue 14-May-13 22:04:15

Quorn? The real word is vege ham grin

ninja Tue 14-May-13 22:28:47

Bother - just got the kids in bed and was sitting down to enjoy the next installments in the hamwidge and playdate threads, and the other one has been deleted sad

Will have to go and eat my Bhajiwidge instead

Gossipmonster Tue 14-May-13 22:32:03

God I just read the title - I'd kill for a Hamwhich right now I LOVED them as a kid smile

YoniTime Tue 14-May-13 22:50:50

What was the playdate thread about ninja?

drfayray Tue 14-May-13 22:57:47

In Australia here so morning - making lunches for DC- chickenwidges ok kidlets I bellowed. Please mum.. Yap said I.
gringringrin Adore the new langwidge!

Kids (15 and 17) batted nary an eye to new term.

drfayray Tue 14-May-13 23:00:08

And I am not one to pick on spelling errors in posts but simply ADORE OP's version of words! grin

idiot55 Tue 14-May-13 23:03:40

oh Bernard Mathews cheese hamwich, I used to love going to my friends house circa 1990, she did them deep fried with homemade chips.

I know they still sell them, tempted!

rosepettel Tue 14-May-13 23:03:48

rolf you mumsnets are funny

thenx all for help

today i made a list of diffrent food you can eat in bread [only on my phone not paper] [only vege stuff]

[hmmm)

rosepettel Tue 14-May-13 23:12:12

i mean hmm

ninja Wed 15-May-13 09:09:19

playdate gone wrong, a child taken home 3 hours late from a playdate with an OP who seemed to name change randomly. It had elements similar to this thread and there were suggestions that they could be related (not so sure myself).

LifeIsBetterInFlipFlops Wed 15-May-13 09:31:04

Cats playing with a mousewidge

Mindyourownbusiness Wed 15-May-13 10:36:58

[smil]

Mindyourownbusiness Wed 15-May-13 10:37:31

[hmmm]

Mindyourownbusiness Wed 15-May-13 10:39:55

Just a thought but should we bring Justine up to speed on the new set of emoticons? smile ... err l mean [smil]

pollywollydoodle Wed 15-May-13 12:41:57

just had a croquemonsieurwidge [grn }

Mindyourownbusiness Wed 15-May-13 14:50:29

with or without an anaesthetic polly

grin [grn]

pollywollydoodle Wed 15-May-13 15:25:03

think you are mistaking it for a croquemonsieurwedgie...that does need an anesthetic [wnk}

Sonnet Wed 15-May-13 15:30:59

Ahh - a ham sandwich....mystery explained.

Mindyourownbusiness Wed 15-May-13 17:48:31

[grn] sorry couldn't resist, it just sounded like a procedure [mixedup]

Oh Sonnet do keep up !! [grn]

BMW6 Wed 15-May-13 18:56:59

Oooohhh - I've only just twigged that OP is doing the misspelling and mixed up words deliberatly......... was shock but am now [blish]

rosepettel Wed 15-May-13 19:05:06

it my phone cant help it

well some times

rosepettel Wed 15-May-13 19:05:44

i mean some times i dont know how too

YoniTime Wed 15-May-13 19:31:16

Your username is so cute too OP.
How is it going with the feud?

rosepettel Thu 16-May-13 12:36:47

thenx

the food is fine

smile

YoniTime Thu 16-May-13 12:39:24

Great grin
I meant, how is the situation with the woman who wanted to force your dd to eat a hamwidge?

I think you need to speak to this woman and explain why it is rude for her to suggest your dd eats meat and keeps it a secret from you, and to say that you are worried about this happening again.

This would give her a chance to apologise, and might mean your dds can carry on going there to play with their friends.

Fuckwittery Thu 16-May-13 15:17:49

Lol at feud/food confusion grin

rainbowbrite1980 Thu 16-May-13 15:34:25

I'd be furious (we're veggie too) and it would be the last time my child went to their house. YANBU. I would do as the others have said, ring her and ask her calmly to explain what happened and how upset your dd was. Then I'd tell her that your dd won't be visiting her house again.

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Thu 16-May-13 16:01:18

On a serious note, something I've always been interested in knowing (but never having the nerve to ask!) Do veggie parents get angry if their kids want meat? (not getting angry, little to no experience just curious!)

SweetSeraphim Thu 16-May-13 16:23:22

Years ago, a little veggie girl that I knew was given a chipolata by some kids - when he found out, her dad stuck his fingers down her throat until she was sick hmm

True story.

YoniTime Thu 16-May-13 17:32:01

True story? I hope not shock

Moominsarehippos Thu 16-May-13 17:58:32

That's not going to give the pook kid a complex is it? I can imagine her having a panic attack in the cooked meats aisle of Tesco.

BriansBrain Thu 16-May-13 18:24:25

shock

Haberdashery Thu 16-May-13 19:48:02

This is great. I am particularly enjoying 'yap'. But the widges are making my eyes bleed.

Unacceptable Thu 16-May-13 21:33:15

rosepettel

Your friend is no such thing and I'm sure you can encourage your children to play with other kids whose DM isn't quite so...erm... aggressive?

Also I really, really love the Hamwich, jamwich, cheesewich, eggmayowich thing and am never ever having a sandwich or butty again.

I cannot wait to order lunch tomorrow! grin

IHideVegInRice Thu 16-May-13 21:48:36

Blimey - that's awful. Poor kid!

SecretAgent (fab name!) - we're not vegetarian but I guess a similar principle applies to kosher food in the sense that certain foods aren't eaten and there's an ideological reason rather than it being due to health or dislike.

I can only speak from my own experience here of course- we're pretty liberal and while we are bringing DCs up to have an understanding of their Jewish identity DH and I agree that it is not the only identity they will have - they may in fact choose to reject some or all aspects of it in the future, but we will respect it and support them regardless.

So in answer to your question; no, I would not be angry if they wanted to eat sausages and prawns and so on, but I'd be expecting them to have the maturity to make an informed choice. I wouldn't be impressed if, for example, they went apeshit and ate all the cocktail sausages etc at a party because that's simply a mindless rebellion.

So I suppose in essence it's not that we'd be opposed to them eating the "forbidden" foods, but that there is a certain expectation that should they choose to depart from the practice, it will be done in a measured and articulate way. HTH!

SweetSeraphim Thu 16-May-13 21:52:29

Honestly, it's true. I was horrified.