to think friend's ex-husband isn't to blame in this instance?

(121 Posts)
enpointe Sun 12-May-13 14:12:35

My friend split up from her husband a year ago, and they have two pre-school children. I'm using the word 'friend' here for the sake of convenience: while on the one hand we haven't fallen out as such, her behaviour to me at a mutual friend's wedding was so appalling I am trying to distance myself from her.

The reasons the marriage broke down were quite complex but ultimately, the husband did have an affair with another woman, who he left my friend for. I don't condone this behaviour for a minute. However, it also has to be said that he had reason to be very unhappy in the marriage, mainly due to the housework and childcare (he did everything, despite the fact she was a sahm and he worked full time) and she has struggled with keeping the house safe and hygienic to the point where social services have been involved. A custody battle was started then, and he was given more access to their children (50-50)

Anyway things broke down to the point where they weren't being civil to one another as he was getting a lot of requests for the same amount of money he was paying to start with even though the children were with him less time. He started to get an increasing number of texts/voicemails just saying "ring me, urgent." He asked her not to do this because it made him panic but she carried on, so he has changed his phone no and asked for contact to be via the solicitor or through email only.

Is he BU? She thinks so.

Movingtimes Sun 12-May-13 14:16:54

Hmm, so he cheated on her, walked out on her, she isn't coping very well and you want people on MN to hoick their judgy-pants up. Glad you're not my 'friend'.

DameFanny Sun 12-May-13 14:19:15

How did she behave at the wedding? Does it fit a pattern of behaviour?

Tryharder Sun 12-May-13 14:20:16

Diificult to judge without knowing all the facts and in particular without knowing how many calls she was making.

He sounds like an utter charmer.

WorraLiberty Sun 12-May-13 14:21:07

Why do you care if you're trying to distance yourself from her?

MayTheOddsBeEverInYourFavour Sun 12-May-13 14:24:59

Without knowing all the facts, from what you've written he doesn't seem unreasonable at all. It does sound like an awful situation for them all though

It does bother me sometimes that men are seen as 'abandoning' their family if they leave. I know some men do, but as long as they are taking equal responsibility for their dc then why shouldn't they leave an unhappy relationship - we certainly encourage women to leave if things are bad

Hissy Sun 12-May-13 14:26:21

If SS were involved, why is there only 50/50 care. Why did he not get majority custody?

The situation you describe sounds similar in lots of ways to my former boyfriend's marriage. His ExW is suspected to have Borderline Personality Disorder.

If that is the case or could be then really helped him.

enpointe Sun 12-May-13 14:28:16

Fair enough Worra.

Movingtimes, she wasn't coping (if you mean in terms of the house and so on) before he left, that's one of the key reasons they split.

DameFanny, yes, her behaviour at the wedding was pretty dire.

CloudsAndTrees Sun 12-May-13 14:29:12

He IBU to not allow her to contact him other than through email or a solicitor. There are plenty of valid reasons why she might need to contact him over the phone.

It depends how clear he made it that she shouldn't use the 'ring me- urgent' thing unless it what actually urgent, and it depends how trivial the things were that she contacted him about and how frequently. If she was particularly over the top, then he may be justified, but it would take a hell of a lot for someone to want to be virtually uncontactable when the other person has their children.

McBalls Sun 12-May-13 14:29:34

Well yes, she sounds thoroughly unreasonable.

But then it's not a great leap to think that you are presenting events in such a way as to invite a specific response. You've had a falling out, so it would feel cathartic to have a bunch of people agreeing with you that she's awful.

Basically, meh.

enpointe Sun 12-May-13 14:29:36

Hissy, largely because of the houses. She is still in a HA property which has 3 bedrooms while he and his new partner have bought a property but it's quite a small 2 bed flat.

That's interesting what you say about the BPD. Her behaviour has at times been very strange.

enpointe Sun 12-May-13 14:30:28

McBalls, I suppose, I just wanted to explain that so I didn't get a load of "some friend why didn't YOU do something" posts.

Then I got one anyway grin

WorraLiberty Sun 12-May-13 14:33:10

Lots of kids live in small 2 bedroom flats

If she's as bad as you say, there must have been a reason why he was denied custody, surely?

Lj8893 Sun 12-May-13 14:34:16

Sounds like they are both to blame for different reasons.

Why do you care if she's not really your friend? Are you the new woman?

CloudsAndTrees Sun 12-May-13 14:36:10

She can be a decent parent to her children at the same time as being a nightmare partner or ex.

There is no reason she should lose her children to him, especially if SS have visited after she has recently been left by her partner. They would have hoped things would improved as time went on.

Are you the woman he left her for?

shewhowines Sun 12-May-13 14:40:09

Given the facts you have said are accurate, YANBU.

WorraLiberty Sun 12-May-13 14:40:47

Also it's possible that being at home with 2 pre-school children while your DH is fucking someone else, can bring on depression of sorts. That's not going to help with the housework is it?

How long did the affair go on before he left her?

He's had a busy year...a split with his wife, buying a property and a custody battle (a quick one at that).

So really neither of them sound like shit hot parents, but I hope she gets the help she clearly needs.

enpointe Sun 12-May-13 14:41:16

No, I'm not the woman he left her for! grin

Worra ... I don't know. It's to do with space, anyway. His new GF has a daughter as well so it would be pretty crowded. He wasn't denied custody, but he increased his access to the children.

She's fine as a mum - doesn't hit or anything like that - but the house isn't safe as she does seem to struggle. The kids have funded hours at nursery 3 days a week and other forms of support so she is being monitored.

LessMissAbs Sun 12-May-13 14:41:38

YANBU, in that you sound as though you have gone off this woman because of her own behaviour. If a situation is that bad, it might be better to restrict contact to through a solicitor or email (which can be pretty fast if you have it on your phone).

Just because she has had children doesn't mean she loses responsibility for the consequences of her own actions and choices in life. Just the same as with men.

Lj8893 Sun 12-May-13 14:43:00

So why are you asking? What's it got to do with you?

I don't mean that in a rude way, I'm just wondering why you care if your not involved and arnt really that close to either party.

enpointe Sun 12-May-13 14:43:21

Yeah Worra I do agree with you there. I don't attempt for a minute to say cheating on someone is OK or acceptable behaviour, it isn't, obviously it isn't.

Sorry, I used the custody battle thing out of context. It didn't go through the courts, it was a sort of verbal battle and eventually the compromise of the kids being with the XH four days a week was reached.

scaevola Sun 12-May-13 14:43:30

DC aren't "pay per view", but evn if they were he should be paying more if he has them less (standard formula - he's paying less directly as he has them less, but they still cost about the same).

No matter how unhappy he was in his marriage, it's not justification for an affair. His wife needed help tthe time of SS interventions, or at least common decency of a straightforward split without 3rd parties.

But I do think he's done the right thing now in stating admin only contact about the DC. An email account for this, which he checks frequently, seems a good arrangement. It might also be good to have a separate mobile phone for use only with her. This might provide reassurance for her when DCs are with him (and he can turn it off when they're not).

enpointe Sun 12-May-13 14:44:10

Lj, I don't know. Just passing the time, I suppose.

Lj8893 Sun 12-May-13 14:44:53

Fair enough smile

This thread is odd.

Oh god I just realised that would sound like I was troll hunting and that's not what I meant at all. blush

I just meant, without any other context, I don't understand the point of the thread or the Question you're asking.

enpointe Sun 12-May-13 14:47:31

Is it? Sorry.

shewhowines Sun 12-May-13 14:47:53

Why is he to blame or both to blame? He did everything in the house whilst he was working and she was a sahm. She failed to keep a hygenic house for her children afterwards. He is a caring involved dad who actually wanted to care for his kids fulltime as he believed this was best for them.
Yes, he made a mistake in having an affair, rather than just leaving to begin with , but I would imagine he stayed for the kids sakes and the marriage was over long before then.

He is now fed up of excessive phone calls making him panic. She didn't stop when asked to. She can still contact him by email and i'm sure he wouldn't mind a phone call i a real emergency.

I can't see how he can be blamed at all.

enpointe Sun 12-May-13 14:48:28

I suppose part of me still feels a bit annoyed and pissed off at her behaviour towards me (and that really is unreasonable grin) and her behaviour towards her ex is part of that pattern if you see what I mean?

enpointe Sun 12-May-13 14:49:02

shewho - that's pretty much how I see things!

scaevola Sun 12-May-13 14:55:12

Failure to keep a hygienic house does sound like severe depression or other MH condition.

I am also wondering about the timelines for this. Reactive depression during a spouse's affair isn't uncommon, including before the affair is discovered simply because of the change of behaviour by the unfaithful spouse and the lies/deceit/abuse that accompany the betrayal.

I think her needs might be the more urgent ones. Do you know what support she is getting now?

AnyFucker Sun 12-May-13 14:55:42

You still haven't said what this woman did to you

enpointe Sun 12-May-13 14:58:43

scaevola, the house was in a bad way when they were together, I don't think she was depressed at the affair although I accept she may have been depressed for other reasons. She doesn't behave as if she is but I do know that of course that doesn't mean she isn't.

AF - she stole what added up to a significant amount of money, stole presents from my DD and other expensive items.

HollyBerryBush Sun 12-May-13 15:01:33

I don't think you can ever apportion blame in other peoples relationships.

It's only those in those four walls that knows what really goes on. The most charming of people can be utter shits once the front door is closed.

AnyFucker Sun 12-May-13 15:02:33

Then distance yourself properly which doesn't normally consist of speculating about her private family business on the internet

WorraLiberty Sun 12-May-13 15:07:02

I'm a SAHM. My DH works some very hard and unsociable shift patterns.

But if I let the house get in that sort of state, I'm quite sure he'd love and support me enough to help me do something about it, for all our sakes.

I doubt his first thought would be to fuck another woman.

So it's quite possible the marriage was dead anyway and he used the state of the house as an excuse to get out.

Either way, they need to sort out the money issue and if they're going to share custody 50-50...despite having 3 kids in a small flat, she's going to need to be able to contact him isn't she?

enpointe Sun 12-May-13 15:23:01

lol if AIBU was populated by people only minding their own business, it would not be the busy forum we know and love ...

Worra, he did. Repeatedly, hiring cleaners, buying dishwashers, doing it all himself, you know, like you describe? It wasn't one day the house was a mess then the next he found another woman. It was 4 years of that followed by him meeting someone else. Then he decided to leave his wife.

WorraLiberty Sun 12-May-13 15:27:23

I just don't know how any house with hired cleaners and one parent doing it all themself can get into the state you describe?

I mean a state so bed that SS got involved?

It just doesn't add up. And by that I don't mean I think you're lying btw...just that someone might be spinning you a line regarding 'repeatedly hiring cleaners' and him doing it all himself.

enpointe Sun 12-May-13 15:31:28

worra, I went to the house, honestly. It was bad. It got that way because she let two toddlers, a dog and two cats rampage through it. I went once with my DD and was going to stay the night. I ended up making an excuse and going back (2 hour drive.)

I had quite a bad episode of depression in my twenties, and my house got in a bad way. I actually (longish story here but anyway!) moved out to live in London for a bit, came back after a year and a half and I was sickened with myself I'd lived in that state for over a year. Her house was ten times worse.

shewhowines Sun 12-May-13 15:34:35

worra Presumably, it wasn't that bad when he was living there but got that way after he left.

WorraLiberty Sun 12-May-13 15:37:19

OP I'm not doubting the state of the house

What I'm doubting is how much he did to help/support her and whether or not he repeatedly hired cleaners.

But it might be as shewhowines said.

Either way it's fucked up and he needs to get a 99p sim card and give her the number. Otherwise 50-50 custody isn't going to work.

enpointe Sun 12-May-13 15:39:00

yeah shewhowins, I think it was ok - not good but not terrible - when he lived there but now it should be condemned, honestly. It made me feel sick, it really did.

mumandboys123 Sun 12-May-13 16:27:34

you've fallen for the 'I've had an affair and I'll do anything at all but accept responsibility for that' bullshit that people who engage in affairs always do.

Then reason for splitting was a man who betrayed his wedding vows and made the relationship downright impossible to continue. The marriage did not break down because she 'wasn't coping'. Decent people who love and care and want the best for people, don't have affairs and walk out on someone who 'wasn't coping'. They deal with it. And if it gets to the point where it's intolerable to live with, they leave without the need to set up a new relationship prior to doing so. Setting up a new relationship is pure selfishness and takes account of his needs only and ignores those of his wife and in particular his children.

She was probably depressed and needed help to overcome that. She probably now feels desperate. She probably can't understand what has happened and wants answers. It is pretty standard affair behaviour to not give answers, rather to just blame and blame some more. I probably called my ex too much in the early days of our marriage breakdown (hindsight!) but what he wouldn't have told you is that he lied, lied some more, refused to tell me where he was, refused to admit he was living with the other woman, refused to tell me where he was taking our young children and who he was introducing them to (indeed, the eldest one came home after seeing dad one day saying he had 'secrets' he needed to keep from me) would have been enough for me to have him apologise, say he'd been having an affair, that he was now living with her and that the children would be taken there. It was all I needed to know.

There are two sides to every story. I suspect hers at the very least would be interesting. Mine is a very sad story of years of low-level verbal and mental abuse, young children and forced to stay at home 'cos of financial constraints whilst my self employed husband went out and shagged our 'family business' book keeper for several years - had a child by her which he somehow managed to keep quiet - and all the time I grew more and more miserable, lonely and depressed. I had no idea why - he came home every night - but my internal 'radar' on these issues was so 'off' due to the years of telling me how stupid I was. Our home was a mess and when he finally walked out he tried to take the children with him. It was dragged through the courts and he didn't win 'cos he's a liar and it was pretty obvious to anyone looking in what was going on. There are people, however, who he fooled - I was spat at in the street by members of his family, have 'friends' that wouldn't speak to me, that kind of thing. I would suggest if you're not a 'friend' of either of them you stop gossping. Or actually be a 'friend' and support whichever one you think is in the right.

coppertop Sun 12-May-13 16:43:08

How could he have done everything if he was at work full-time and also presumably spending time with his OW? confused

Interesting though that "he did everything" is later clarified to mean that he threw money at the problem by "hiring cleaners, buying dishwashers,".

I'm not sure someone who complains about how much money he pays for his children, while busy buying a flat with his OW, is all that deserving of sympathy either tbh.

digerd Sun 12-May-13 17:10:15

The OW is probably using her wiles to get him to financially support her DD at the expense of his own DC.

coppertop Sun 12-May-13 17:28:22

So first it's his ex-wife's fault and now it's the OW's fault?

How nice for him that he has people to absolve him of all wrongdoing. It's all the fault of those pesky women in his life, eh.

AnyFucker Sun 12-May-13 17:35:25

The Op isn't pesky at all

It looks like she luuurves him wink

enpointe Sun 12-May-13 18:50:53

Lol AF - I've only met him once wink bit young for me!

I don't think it is her 'fault' the marriage fell apart. I think they were both to blame. She kept the house in a terrible state, spent a lot of money (still does) and behaved like a teenager, basically. He met the OW in March and moved out in May so it's not like he was shagging someone else all through their relationship, although like I've said all along, he shouldn't have done it.

I don't think I said he complained about how much he spent for the children, just that he reduced payments according to how long the kids were with him - she doesn't spend a lot on the kids.

I'm not gossiping anyway, I'm talking on here grin and I'm not really a friend either.

mumandboys123 Sun 12-May-13 19:00:53

yes, you are gossiping. And probably gossiping about someone who's life has fallen apart in quite a spectacular way and who probably feels...rubbish right now. Even worse if you're not really a friend. If you're not really a friend, how could you possibly know the ins and outs of their relationship, what money he did/didn't throw at the 'problem', details of text messaging, messages left etc. etc. etc.

You are far too involved in something that clearly doesn't concern you and are taking an incredible amount of detailed interest in someone's life who you clearly don't care for at all. With 'friends' like you, who on earth needs enemies? !

Fleecyslippers Sun 12-May-13 19:15:02

Oh YANBU. She needs to pull herself together and move on for goodness sake. I mean it was probably her fault he left her in the first place cos she didn't give him enough blowjobs. And then the cheeky cow expected him to come home and do housework when he was all worn out from shagging his secretary ?
And as for a bit of PND - well of course its not a real illness. She really must blame herself and he and OW myst be allowed to live their new dream.lives unsullied by the reality of this screeching harpie and her pay per view brats. hmm

enpointe Sun 12-May-13 19:21:55

Mum - her life hasn't fallen apart hmm Her house is a tip, yes, but it's ALWAYS been a tip. She's got a new partner, in any case. I was a friend when all this was going on, but having money and expensive items belonging to my DD stolen sort of put an end to the friendship!

She hasn't got PND either, or even been diagnosed with depression. Of course, she could have it, but she might not. Some people are just messy, y'know.

enpointe Sun 12-May-13 19:25:14

But in any case, I've not said in any of my posts having an affair is OK. I do think it's reasonable for him to not accept calls from her - that's all.

McNewPants2013 Sun 12-May-13 19:25:52

I can't really believe that a marriage would fall apart solely on housework issues.

enpointe Sun 12-May-13 19:27:54

No, it didn't, you're right, it fell apart because they weren't working together, helping one another or supporting one another. Both were to blame, I am sure. I was horrified by how she lived, and I am no pearl-clutcher usually but no way was my DD going into that house. He was totally out of order having an affair. It's sad it's come to this really.

WafflyVersatile Sun 12-May-13 19:31:29

On the basis of what you say, I'm picking the husband's side.

I'm a bit confused at how defensive of this woman every one is being. If it was him texting all the time posters would be suggesting she report him for harassment. An exit affair does not give you a free pass to harass your ex.

LemonsLimes Sun 12-May-13 19:39:47

he had reason to be very unhappy in the marriage, mainly due to the housework and childcare (he did everything, despite the fact she was a sahm and he worked full time)

How did he do all the childcare if he was working full time?

scaevola Sun 12-May-13 19:43:54

Oh dear. Drip feeding.

AnyFucker Sun 12-May-13 19:45:52

For a person you only met once, you seem to have an uncanny insight into his actions and into his mind

enpointe Sun 12-May-13 19:46:09

Sorry, I didn't mean to.

I was meaning childcare as in baths, bed, getting them up and washed, stories, actual care smile

WafflyVersatile Sun 12-May-13 19:46:17

''It depends how clear he made it that she shouldn't use the 'ring me- urgent' thing unless it what actually urgent, and it depends how trivial the things were that she contacted him about and how frequently. If she was particularly over the top, then he may be justified, but it would take a hell of a lot for someone to want to be virtually uncontactable when the other person has their children.''

Cloud Surely it's common sense that one shouldn't use 'call me, urgent' unless it is urgent.

And yes it does take a lot for someone to want to be virtually uncontactable when the other person has their children, doesn't it.

WafflyVersatile Sun 12-May-13 19:47:45

As she only met him once then her info has come from the ex wife who has had all her chance to put her side, and yet the OP still doesn't think she's in the right...

So no actual care takes place during the day then with small children, then that's a new one on me.

And what AnyFucker said. For someone who only met him once you know a helluva lot about how his mind works.

enpointe Sun 12-May-13 19:50:46

Waffly, the info has come from the ex wife and I still think she's in the wrong.

Having spent some time in her company I immediately had a new sympathy for him. At first I thought he was a bastard. I still think he was wrong to have an affair but I now understand why he left. Stupid, maybe, but I have never known someone so self-involved and who thought such awful behaviour was acceptable.

enpointe Sun 12-May-13 19:52:43

I don't think care does take place when someone stays in bed/on the sofa and lets the kids rampage through the house tbh no

McNewPants2013 Sun 12-May-13 19:53:15

Op I don't see how you know the full story.

enpointe Sun 12-May-13 19:55:15

I don't think I do know the full story, you are right. But, at the same time, I've got enough insight into her behaviour to understand how it must have been a major contributor in the marriage breaking down - which doesn't excuse his behaviour or actions either, of course.

Have you ever lived with a man who is having an affair enpointe?

How would you know if she has had PND, assessments are not done that quickly, speaking as a CP SW. We don't fund nursery places for people capable of pulling themselves together and getting the house cleaned, nor do we facilitate parents not to parent. There is more going on with this woman than you know, the same can probably be said for what life was like "behind closed doors" for her. If the house was that bad then he would have had temporary residence, whilst it was sorted out. If it was acceptable to end your marriage, or have an affair because your partner did no housework, then every other woman would be going down that route. On the face of it, there has been very little love in the marriage, which would severely depress any New Mum. So he has left his children with his ex, who isn't coping and obviously has problems, but wants to only be contactable during office hours? Yes he is BU.

WafflyVersatile Sun 12-May-13 19:58:28

That's what I'm saying, sorry if it wasn't clear. When people have an argument and complain to a friend they tend to give them their 'reality' of the situation, emphasising the other person's bad behaviour and downplaying their own. And still with only her side of the story on the table this friend has not convinced the OP that she is the victim in all this.

Viviennemary Sun 12-May-13 20:01:15

I think this is one of those situations where you just have to leave your friend and her ex to sort out their issues themselves. From what you've written it sounds as if the husband is being reasonable. But whether this will go down well with your friend is another matter.

" I have enough insight into her behaviour to know that it contributed to the marriage breakdown". You said that she had always been messy? There is more than one child? In the words of Judge Judy, "he picked her to be the Mother of his children". Either way, he shares PR, if one of the children is rushed to hospital in the night, he needs to be contactable. By building up evidence of unstable behaviour, in the way of txt and phone calls, he can help SS to direct the correct help to the Mother of his children.

IneedAsockamnesty Sun 12-May-13 20:05:13

Putting aside everything else apart from her contacting him then I think he is bu.

If someone is harassing you then there are legal steps you take to prevent it,not one of these steps in the case of both parents having decent contact with the child will stop genuine parental concerns being talked about directly.

He sounds like a child who cannot be arsed to deal with issues that do need dealing with and would rather just ignore.

What's wrong with having either a single email or mobile number that he agrees to check daily for urgent topics? That way if she really is harassing him he will have the proof to evidence it.

And if one parent really is that shockingly bad the other ( if they really are so much better)does not just get refused full residency unless they decide to either give up or don't really want it.

McNewPants2013 Sun 12-May-13 20:06:13

Speaking from a personal experience from friend who have been divorced, that for a long while after they truly believed it was all their fault.

It's only after many years later they actually seen that it wasn't all there fault.

CoalDustWoman Sun 12-May-13 20:09:12

Why has he left the children in a situation where ss are involved because of the state of the house ?

You wouldn't let your daughter go into the house when he lived there, it was that bad? I work full time and am a LP, yet manage to have a reasonable house. if she was deliberately creating mess and dirt, he should have contacted the MH crisis team, he certainly shouldn't have found a bit on the side and up and left his children in an unstable environment. You need to keep out of it.

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Sun 12-May-13 20:12:50

OP, you actually quite disgust me. Waaay bored to tears with your life. Too many of your miserable kind at pre-school days, judging everyone.

YABU. Mind your own fuckin business yeah?

Also, if nursery places are being funded then the children must be on a CP plan, is he telling you the full truth about that?

WafflyVersatile Sun 12-May-13 20:16:20

sock you know custody is not that simple when exes can't reach agreement. IIRC he works full-time and yet was awarded 4 nights a week, more than 50%. The family court seem to think even working full-time in a 2 bed flat and her being a SAHM with 3 bed house the kids are better off spending more time with him.

MammaTJ Sun 12-May-13 20:18:07

My ex left me because 'I didn't keep the house tidy enough, I was rubbish with money, I did not do enough for him'

For most of our marriage, I worked 48 hours a week to his 38. I figured he had 10 hours of housework to catch up on before I even had to start. I did do all the housework though.

He actually had an affair and left and I would have had a good deal more respect for him if he had left, not had an affair and left.

Our DD has lived with him for the last 4 years. For the last 2 he has refused to answer my rare phone calls. Apparently DD is able to pass on messages. When she has been struggling at school it would have been a good deal better to be able to talk to him and try to work out how best to support her.

The man you are talking about needs to tell her that he will not answer dramatic demands to 'ring-urgent', he needs ring because xyz. A practical solution to a real problem.

CoalDustWoman Sun 12-May-13 20:20:54

It wasn't court ordered. I'm shocked that if things are that bad he is not stepping in and making sure these kids are ok all of the time. Am I odd? Why hasn't he organised his life around his kids? One of them has to, surely?

IneedAsockamnesty Sun 12-May-13 20:22:36

If he really wanted full residency and she's really that bad why buy a house that would be so unsuitable ( against a house that ss deamed to not be fit for children to be in).

That bit is that simple.

FCEK Sun 12-May-13 20:24:19

I wonder if the OP is the OW?

WV, that suggests that there is a justifiable reason as to why the ex is living the way that she is ie some form of MH problem, rather than just failing her children because she cannot be bothered to parent, tbh.

WafflyVersatile Sun 12-May-13 20:25:41

It's simple to get a mortgage on a 3 or 4 bed house? Tell me how! I want one.

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Sun 12-May-13 20:26:37

Certainly comes across that way FCEK. No objectivity whatsoever.

WafflyVersatile Sun 12-May-13 20:26:58

Most abusive husbands have MH problems or personality disorders. I don't see many people jumping to their defence when their ex wife wants them to stop contacting them.

This thread is odd.

CoalDustWoman Sun 12-May-13 20:27:51

There are 2 kids. They could share a bedroom. But he would rather live with the new woman and her child.

Bogeyface Sun 12-May-13 20:39:04

So she is (at least from his POV) a crap mother who cant cope and his children are living in squalor?

And he has decided to buy a small flat instead of putting his children first and renting a bigger place so they can live there?

Yeah, he sounds really caring, really like he is putting the kids first. He has put his OW's DD above his own ffs!

quesadilla Sun 12-May-13 20:44:11

I also strongly suspect there is more to this than meets the eye. Being bad at housework isn't - on its own - a reason for walking out on a marriage, let alone for an affair. I think it's highly likely the marriage was effectively over a long time ago and that the husband's behaviour contributed more to this than you are acknowledging. It does also clearly sound as if she is depressed now, regardless of whether she has been formally diagnosed.

WV, they do if they leave, leaving the children with the ex and shack up with someone else and their child, then refuse to have contact outside of office hours. There will be a CP plan in writing and you can bet that the children's SW won't agree with him not being contactable. I suggest that he puts it to the SW and does as directed.

EglantinePrice Sun 12-May-13 20:47:09

Now when I had two pre-schoolers I really didn't cope very well. For many reasons. Thank God my DH was supportive and really did more than his fair share - rather than have an affair.

So I will begin by saying I have no sympathy for him.

I think the AIBU is should she have to contact him via solicitors...? Shit this doesn't sound very maintainable esp at weekends or in any kind of crisis.

It really comes across how much you think she is BU. Comments like 'she doesn't spend a lot on the kids' just make me wonder how on earth you know this. You clearly hate her and I think you're being a little U.

AnyFucker Sun 12-May-13 20:52:24

OP has denied she is the OW several times now

Make of that what you will

CookieLady Sun 12-May-13 20:53:07

The ex-h sounds like a fantastic father leaving his dc with a mother who clearly wasn't coping. Nice.

IneedAyoniNickname Sun 12-May-13 21:43:23

This thread is very interesting.

My ex left me, he says it wasn't for another woman, but the dc met her 6 weeks after we split.
He tells everyone that will listen that he left because the house was so untidy, that he used to come home from being at work all day and have to do all the housework, etc etc.

In actual fact, he worked 5pm-9pm 4 days a week, which isn't all day imo.
He never did housework, even on the 3 days he wasn't working
According to him, he should be allowed a lie in whenever he didn't have to get up for work (ie everyday) if I was lucky I'd get a lie in, but only once he'd decided to get up around 9/10am. In other words, I would have to get up with the dc, then if I was lucky I could go back to bed for 30 mins.

Yes the house was a mess , really bad in fact. And like ops 'friend' ss were involved. However, there was never any suggestion of his contact increasing, or him having custody.
I had horrendous depression which ex claimed he didn't know about. This was made worse by him constantly berating me, nagging, moaning and telling me how shit I was.

If it was that bad, why didn't he take his dc and run?
I'd love to hear the 'friends' side of this story!

WafflyVersatile Sun 12-May-13 21:48:12

What is a CP plan?

I know someone who tried to leave his abusive wife (no, I'm not before you ask)

He didn't in the end because he didn't feel strong enough to battle her for custody, FOG?, when she was threatening that he would not see his kids again if he left and all the other manipulation etc. He also couldn't bring himself to 'hurt her' by leaving with the kids. He didn't know the proper way to leave an abusive relationship. And his efforts resulted in threats and abuse. He downplayed her behaviour. He tried what he thought was best but he had not had suitable advice and ended up moving back in and having a nervous breakdown. Men know/fear that working full-time versus SAHM means they will not get custody.

He also did more childcare and more housework than her despite him working ft and her being a SAHM. I think this thread reminded me of that.

I'm really quite shocked here sometimes at what seem to me double standards. Poor brave abused women. Spineless cowardly men.

Part of me hopes this is him. Even if his kids are not with him 100%

maddening Sun 12-May-13 21:52:11

so was as involved while they were still married/together?

LineRunner Sun 12-May-13 21:59:16

CP = child protection

Bogeyface Sun 12-May-13 23:11:17

This is a man who is trying to excuse his shitty behaviour at a) having an affair, b) leaving a woman who clearly has/had mental health issues and c) leaving his children with that woman.

If she was so shit then he would have either left with the kids or taken steps to have her removed from the family home. He did neither. He buggered off to live with his shag in a nice new flat where no one was making demands on him.


SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Mon 13-May-13 03:35:24


OW is a prize cunt for getting in with a married man. Hope she never sees one of her better children get fucked over.

EXH a prize cunt for having an affair and abandoning his children.

Am I the only one who thinks "hmm gee wizz we here this unstable ex story an awful lot (Stable enough to look after the children he fathered but isn'y interested in, OFC) Perhaps the more likely scenario is she found out what a little cock he is, booted him out so he went to his second choice OW and explained all the stress and depression XW was going through forced him to leave as he couldn't cope with a sexless marriage where we worked like a servant around the house.

I know which story I believe is true. Seen it too many times on here.

OP/OW,you 'won.'Don't be even MORE stupid by becoming pregnant. If you do, you and child will be in the same place EXW is now

Many prayers for her and her childcare.

Apologies for the typos.

Enjoy eating your leftovers off someone else's plate.

OTheHugeManatee Mon 13-May-13 08:05:05

Wow. A lot of projecting happening on this thread, I think.

sweetsummerlove Mon 13-May-13 09:42:01

Not really sure how it concerns you..tbh?

would love to know who this other woman is.....suspicious

badinage Mon 13-May-13 09:43:19

This is yet another bloke who's shirked his fathering responsibilities, given up exercising his children's rights and the OP is yet another doozie who thinks he's right to do so. As long as there are idiots around who excuse fathers for their atrocious behaviour towards their kids, men will keep doing it.

EldritchCleavage Mon 13-May-13 11:04:02

The husband is not on the moral high ground here, whatever the ex-W has done, and for one simple reason: it got to the point their living conditions were so bad (which by the way must mean he wasn't doing much domestic work either) that he had to leave, but HE LEFT HIS CHILDREN THERE IN ALL THE MESS.

I work full-time, and DH is SAHD. At times when DH has not been coping (after MIL died v. suddenly, when he and SIL had their final, horribly painful never-to-be-repaired breach), I have done the whole fucking lot, full-time work, domestic chores, all the children's night-time wakings, weekends, cooking, admin, you name it. I'm not looking a for medal here, I've got plenty of failings as a parent and a person. But I can't stand men bailing out and getting so much sympathy for it when a woman would be excoriated in the same circumstances.

Not saying he should have carried her forever, but at least done it short-term to encourage her to get some help, and if she can't or won't, take your bloody children with you so they don't have to live the nightmare either. What's so hard about cleaning the house after work? It's what single people do.

badinage Mon 13-May-13 11:15:00

Completely agree Eldritch. The OP would be excoriating about a woman who worked full-time, then had an affair and left her kids with a father who was either abusive or had mental health issues.

It beats me why so many women just hate other women and think that fatherhood is an optional activity.

shewhowines Mon 13-May-13 11:35:43

It beats me why so many women just hate other women and think that fatherhood is an optional activity.

Why do some women just hate men?

In this case, he didn't want fatherhood to be optional. He asked for custody, given the circumstances where the ex wife wasn't coping. It was decided in mediation that it would increase to only 50;50 because his living conditions weren't as roomy as hers.

The op has said that the house was in an ok state when he was living there but deteriorated afterwards. She did not look after the house or kids either then or now when there is no one to do it for her. She is willing to let the kids suffer rather than do anything herself.

Now, i may be wrong but there is a lot of supposition on here but my interpretation is that the marriage was over long before he had the affair. Indeed he moved out within a couple of months of the affair starting.

How do we know that he was not miserable for a long time beforehand and only stayed for the kids? How do we know that he didn't try to support her? He obviously did by taking on the housework and general looking after the children. When is enough, enough?

We do not know what really went on in the relationship, but IMO (without hating men or women) given the facts that we have been given it is not all his fault - although he should have ended it before having an affair if it was that bad.

badinage Mon 13-May-13 11:49:47

He didn't ask for 'custody'. He's been nowhere near a family court.

According to the OP, he was only given 50 percent residence because he chose to buy a 2 bedroomed place that's already up to full occupancy because he's living with OW and her child.

You wouldn't judge a mother who walked out for an OM and his child and failed to exercise her children's rights to live in a clean, stable environment?


shewhowines Mon 13-May-13 12:21:23

Sorry, I used the custody battle thing out of context. It didn't go through the courts, it was a sort of verbal battle and eventually the compromise of the kids being with the XH four days a week was reached.

He did want them full time - a compromise was reached.
Normally the kids stay with their mother. The two bed, only became a problem because she wasn't coping and the Dh realised he need to have them more for their own sakes.

Basically we just don't know, but he doesn't seem an uncaring father to me.

CoalDustWoman Mon 13-May-13 12:22:49

How does the 2 bed work on the 4 days he has them?

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Mon 13-May-13 12:24:40

Badinage, don't bother interacting with a sexist who hides behind calmness whilst speaking offensive, misogynist crap. Allow me to demonstrate. Check out his moniker.

She Who Wines.

Lovely, just lovely.

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Mon 13-May-13 12:27:02

Oh and OP you are this woman's friend?!?! As in you support and comfort her? shock

No matter who's 'right' in the break up, you're one Fucking Hell of a backstabbing censored 'friend.'

I've just read this thread and the impression I'm left with is that the ExW probably became depressed (hence the poor hygiene, etc) because of the H's affair. I'll bet it was going on long before it became public knowledge, and indeed long before the ExW was aware or suspicious of it too.

From reading the relationships board, it seems a common pattern that when one partner is having an affair, the unsuspecting other partner can end up with other issues like depression because they are aware something is not right but can't put their finger on what is wrong. It seems common for these issues, which have been caused by the affair, to then be used by the cheating partner to justify all sorts of behaviour.

OP, I don't reckon this husband is as great as you believe if he bailed out to live with the OW while his Ex was struggling. And I agree that he can't be so great as he CHOSE to leave his DCs in that situation.

badinage Mon 13-May-13 14:25:07

Quite right SpecialAgent.

Mediators and family courts are wising up now to fathers who go for 50% as a means of paying less, rather than seeing their children more and sure enough, this man's main complaints to his woman friend OP that he's only met once are that he's still paying out more money than he wants to and that his discarded wife has the brass neck to want to contact him about their children.

Not that he's concerned about his children's welfare, or that he doesn't see them enough, or that the place he's bought is too small, or that if he stops paying the same amount of money, his kids might suffer.

Funny that....

shewhowines Mon 13-May-13 15:36:07

*Badinage, don't bother interacting with a sexist who hides behind calmness whilst speaking offensive, misogynist crap. Allow me to demonstrate. Check out his moniker.

She Who Wines.*

shewhowines Mon 13-May-13 15:41:58

Badinage, don't bother interacting with a sexist who hides behind calmness whilst speaking offensive, misogynist crap. Allow me to demonstrate. Check out his moniker.

She Who Wines.

Sorry posted too soon. Am laughing so much at specialagents post.

Believe me I am not a defender of all men and I am definitely a woman. I have seen some men behave spectacularly disgracefully and know what they are capable of. Just in this instance and given these facts then i can't see how it can all be this blokes fault, especially given that she's such a nice person that she stole from the op and her daughter.

badinage Mon 13-May-13 16:12:46

But we weren't asked whether we thought this man's wife was a nice person, or was without fault for anything, ever.

We were asked whether this manfriend of the OP was being unreasonable for wanting to pay less money for his kids and for changing his phone number so his exW can't contact him directly, even when she's got sole care of his kids.

Most folk disagreed with the OP and suggested that those actions were indeed unreasonable.

shewhowines Mon 13-May-13 16:26:24

But people have been laying all the blame at his door without knowing all the facts.

If he's got them for 4 days a week and is contributing to clothes/school trips/day to day living expenses then yes her money should be reduced to reflect that if he genuinely can't afford more. Obviously he should pay over the odds, as should all absent parents, if they can.

Op said he asked her to reduce the number of "urgent" call which weren't urgent. If this is true and she ignored it, wouldn't you get fed up?
Depends on context again.

TheSecondComing Mon 13-May-13 16:31:10

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

badinage Mon 13-May-13 16:33:16

I think truth and facts did a runner the moment this OP was written though, don't you?

This is just another OW who's got nothing better to do than post a thread complaining about her predecessor's slovenly ways. It wouldn't exercise a psychologist's expertise to guess why an OW is insecure enough to do that, but thank goodness most folk were able to see right through it and didn't give the OP the satisfaction of joining in with her slating of a woman who's been deceived and lied to.

TheSecondComing Mon 13-May-13 16:45:26

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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