To be totally horrified that women on a parenting website are giving advice to a violent rapist on how to see his child?

(205 Posts)
Heleneahandcart1 Wed 08-May-13 12:23:53
Fluffypinkcoat Wed 08-May-13 12:27:23


FreckledLeopard Wed 08-May-13 12:29:02

Having had a quick glance at the thread, most of the responses are well considered and the majority of people are telling him that trying to see his child is not in the child's best interests. I can't see anyone 'supporting' the man in any way.

Heleneahandcart1 Wed 08-May-13 12:30:16

You missed out on a few posts, there are plenty supporting him.

Speechless shock

ImTooHecsyForYourParty Wed 08-May-13 12:31:25

wow. just. wow.

If someone started a thread like that here, people would be reporting it to mnhq and asking if it was a troll.

I like most of the responses on that thread. Very sensible indeed.

Fluffypinkcoat Wed 08-May-13 12:31:37

I've also had a quick scan and see several people supporting him and wishing him "good luck" and not in a sarcastic way. There's also women victim blaming and saying many rape victims cry wolf.

MissSG Wed 08-May-13 12:32:30

It's horrific.

I didn't read all 12 pages of posts, but what are people supposed to say to the guy? Plenty said "not a chance", which is fair enough, and others answered his actual question, which was "what should I do first?".

He can't really win here (not that he deserves to "win" anything). On the one hand, he behaved appallingly and has no right to expect anything. On the other, if he made no attempt to offer support to his child at all, he'd get blasted for just f*cking off. Obviously, he has a legal and moral obligation to provide financial support to his daughter. He wants to set things in motion to achieve that. When he has demonstrated his reliability and ability to stay out of trouble and hold down a good job (and apparently he now has a masters degree, as opposed to not being able to read or write very well when he was convicted, so he has a chance of securing employment), he can start testing the waters about contact.

I don't see what's so bad about his question. He has no right to walk away and never be heard from again.

Heleneahandcart1 Wed 08-May-13 12:33:02

I think I am more shocked that netmums are letting the thread stand, there is one particularly vile woman who is accusing a rape victim of causing her children damage in the furture by being so bitter

(Just to reiterate - I didn't read the whole thread, and I didn't see any of the posts offering him unmixed support and encouragement)

BeQuicksieorBeDead Wed 08-May-13 12:33:42

I only read the first page as on a tiny lunch break... But there seem to be many responses that he would get on here, without the fuck off to the far side of fuck that only mn can provide... I didnt think it was real. Why would someone post that on net mums, expecting advice whilst admitting rape charges and throwing his ex down the stairs (not while pregnant mind) hope it isnt real.

GoblinGranny Wed 08-May-13 12:34:35

I wonder how many of the posters would be happy to have him as a next-door neighbour, or a babysitter, or their DH's best friend?
That's without him having shoved them down the stairs.

BeQuicksieorBeDead Wed 08-May-13 12:37:42

So glad for this nest of vipers...

FreudiansSlipper Wed 08-May-13 12:42:46

this is difficult question if it were true (i do not beleive it is)

do i beleive in our justsice system and rehabilitation? yes i do (well if support is given to change and the desire is there to change)

in a case like this i can not be so supportive very few violent men change how can we tell if he has or not from few posts on a forum

i would not be wishing man the best of luck i would be hoping that he would continue to work on changing his mindset not really seen much evidence of that

HolyFocaccia Wed 08-May-13 12:44:15

<jaw drop>
I hope its a troll.

NomNomNom Wed 08-May-13 12:46:13

What is horrifying, surely, is that rapists , abusers, and men convicted of downloading child pornography are still allowed to see their children. As long as their violence has been directed at others, not their own children.

HeySoulSister Wed 08-May-13 12:47:50

Not read the thread. But an offence does not Barr a parent from access with their child

Every child has a right to a relationship with their parent.... Obviously in a controlled way.... But he stands a chance of courts ruling in his favour. Happens all the time

HeySoulSister Wed 08-May-13 12:48:15

nom x posted

Fleecyslippers Wed 08-May-13 12:51:23

Nom Nom my Ex has a police caution for an assault on my child. SS allowed supervised contact immediately after the assault and he now has unsupervised. daytime contact.

NomNomNom Wed 08-May-13 12:54:42

Even worse than I thought then. Unbelievable.

^"Yes cos the daughter would be in sooo much danger , god he could rape Her or throw her down the stairs!!!!
Sam did A crime,not a nice one either. But he did his time. I believe in second chances clearly don't . For enough, but I believe as her father he should do everything in his power to be part of his daughters life and I wish him all the luck in the world ."^

Actually shocked at this, yes actually he certainly could do either of those bloody awful things to her.

Do some people actually believe that violent rapists can (or should be given the opportunity) to be good parents?

I also don't believe in second chances when it comes to situations like this as a second chance is just that and the consequences of the person fucking up could destroy a childs life.

Midori1999 Wed 08-May-13 13:09:27

Going by his posting style and the fact he has resorted to calling a woman ignorant on the first page as she disagreed with him, I don't actually think he's remorseful at all. I think, like the violent rapist he was when he was convicted, he is only interested in what he wants, no one else and I am surprised anyone would fail to note this from his posts.

I doubt any Mother would want someone who had not only been violent enough towards her to be convicted of GBH, but also convicted of rape, anywhere near their child.

I'm very suspicious. I have only read the first page or so but he says he went into prison barely literate but only seven years later he has a masters. Really? He can study full time in there?

I think there's a lot of embellishment in there to try to get people on his side. It seems to be working too.

Fleecyslippers Wed 08-May-13 13:14:38

The respnses supportung the rapist are fairly typical of the attitudes of many second wives/girlfriends who have fallen victim to the manipulation of an abusive man. Lundy describes it so eloquently in his book 'Why does he do that ? Inside the minds of angry and controlling men' when he tals bout abusers with tear filled eyes talking about how bitter exs and authorities stop them from seeingbtheir children for no good reason. Its scary how many women believe and enable these men.

Midori1999 Wed 08-May-13 13:23:56

TheOneWithTheHair, I have read a bit further now and he says he got his masters through the Open University, could this be the case? My sister is doing an OU degree and it takes 6 years. Plus, this man is saying he joined the army at 16, so he wouldn't have had any A levels, surely you can't get from GSCE (or less) qualifications to a Masters in 7 years? Prison or not... confused

creighton Wed 08-May-13 13:28:38

i get the impression that people who get 10 years ish in jail have probably got a history of violence/offences that have led to the 'final' act which leads them to jail for a long time. this man does not seem to have any interest other than his own. i would move to get away from him. i don't care how many masters degrees he has. there are probably wife beaters and rapists who are soldiers/doctors whatever. he should not get access to 'the kid' as he calls her.

For 12 years I very much doubt it was a case of them being supposedly drunk and her not being able to give informed consent.

SirBoobAlot Wed 08-May-13 13:31:08

Fucking hell.

I hope that poor woman is okay, and protects her child.

Then again, it was the same website that told me to forgive exP the first time he was violent to me because he'd been having a tough time. So not entirely surprising.

GoblinGranny Wed 08-May-13 13:34:47

Oh don't get confused ladies, it wasn't raping his wife he was sent down for, it was someone else.
He may well have raped the mother of his child, but he'd probably count that as 'not treating her well' because they were in a relationship, so the right to sex whenever he wanted was a given. And he only pushed her down the stairs when she wasn't pregnant. hmm

Seriously SirBoob? shock

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Wed 08-May-13 13:35:38

I see some posters are not supporting him thouugh...

JerseySpud Wed 08-May-13 13:41:27

Gobsmacked that some think its ok for him to waltz back into that little girls life and announce his presence sad

TunipTheVegedude Wed 08-May-13 13:42:40

I am amazed how many people on that thread have said that everyone deserves a second chance, like it's an unalterable truth.

KoreRenati Wed 08-May-13 13:50:15

I do hope that's a troll. The posters who are telling him to just walk away are spot on, I especially liked the quote about every child deserving a father but not every father deserving a child.

The bit that gets me is the disclaimer that she wasn't pregnant when he pushed her downstairs, as if that makes it better?!

SparkleToffee Wed 08-May-13 13:51:52

wow.... I cant believe how many women on that site are full of advice re contact/ solicitors letters / writing to her himself..... I know a fair few condemn him, but I am surprised how many people are full of what they perceive to be helpful suggestions!

I think they are vastly underestimating, if all she remembers of him is a truly violent man, how terrified she will be by him contacting her. And how scared she will be about letting him anywhere near his child.


MonstrousPippin Wed 08-May-13 13:59:11

I can't quite put my finger on it but there's something about his writing style that really reminds me of old school trolling - lots of drip feeding details and contradictions, calm and patronising to really wind people up etc.

Despite that, he's obviously believable to some people and I'm amazed at people giving tips on gaining contact. The only decent advice he's received on there is to walk away and let his daughter get on with her life.

Heleneahandcart1 Wed 08-May-13 14:03:18

Well after reading one of his last comments i am now convinced its a troll. However its more worrying that there are parents on there willing to champion the rights of a violent rapist over the safety and wellbeing of a child. However this is the same forum who had mods telling posters to be 'helpful and kind' to a mother who was looking for ways to prevent social services from discovering her boyfriend was biting and hitting her child, everyone who protested got booted and banned!

FasterStronger Wed 08-May-13 14:03:55

I think he does deserve a life after he has completed his prison sentence and admitted his guilt. but I don't know if that includes seeing his DC. it depends on what is best for the child.

DP & I have an old (ex for reasons that will become clear) friend who was arrested for accessing child pornography websites. logically I would like to say we should maintain some sort of contact with him. otherwise he can just create a new life and pretend nothing happened. however in practice i cannot pretend its ok because it is very far from ok & i regret ever knowing him.

he lost his wife and job and he deserved it.

SirBoobAlot Wed 08-May-13 14:07:54

Schro yes. I hadn't worked out how to name change on here, and exP knew my posting name, so I joined up on there to post, just because I wanted some perspective. ExP grabbed me by the throat, threw me on the bed and screamed in my face, whilst squeezing my throat till I saw stars, all with DS in the room with us.

But because he'd been having a tough time recently, I should forgive him hmm. Stupid thing is I listened.

Heleneahandcart1 Wed 08-May-13 14:17:22

Sirboob thats awful, both what your ex done and the 'advice' you got.

SirBoobAlot Wed 08-May-13 14:23:41

He was a twat. What he was dealing with had been tough, but I should have left him then, not spent the next six months terrified of him.

That is really awful. It is terrifying that there are people who think that is helpful advice.

Samu2 Wed 08-May-13 14:26:05

They have removed it now.

was absolutely shocked at what i was reading

it went away as i got to page 6!

unbelievable shock

SirBoobAlot Wed 08-May-13 14:31:04

Glad it's gone now, at least.

PrincessScrumpy Wed 08-May-13 14:32:23

I've only had a scan through. I guess if I was the child I might like to know my dad wanted to see me even if he didn't get to. Feeling rejected by a parent, what ever the reason, is very damaging. Don't think id let him have contact if I was the mother though.

HootShoot Wed 08-May-13 14:35:02

Wow, I cant believe some of the women on there - turning on the ones who spoke sense! I find it frightening how people can so easily dismiss rape and dv, and not see how manipulative "Sam" was being. It went poof before I got to the end - did he get exposed for being a troll?

Princess Really? Even if he was a violent rapist who pushed your Mother down the stairs?

I've been in a similar position only with my Mother, not my Father, she is an enabler to men like this and abusive in her own ways as well. The only times she got to see me have been damaging. She pleaded her "I've learned blah blah". Consequences of that were her trying to kidnap me with her paedophile bf at age 3 and her partner "playing doctor" with me, at my Fathers funeral...

Her later attempt to see me at age 12 when I demanded I wanted to see her had social services step in, her partner (a different person) at that point is now in prison for murdering someone who I sat with while with them, the guy that was murdered was 7 years older than me, chopped up and hid under my Mothers floor boards. (If anyone thinks I am making this shit up then I will happily link them to the newspaper articles).

Some relationships are not worth giving a chance, for the safety of those who should be considered first.

everlong Wed 08-May-13 14:39:41

I knew it would be Nuthuns by just reading the title.

Heleneahandcart1 Wed 08-May-13 14:39:51

Not sure what happened, just disappeared!

stickyg Wed 08-May-13 14:43:45

I commented on that topic and basically said I hoped the ex would grab their daughter and run for the hills. I was disgusted at some of the supportive comments.

SirBoobAlot Wed 08-May-13 14:48:21

Fucking hell, Schro sad

Yes it may upset a child who wants to see their parent. I've seen several friends destroyed emotionally for years by the lack of parental involvement - but now they are adults, they have seen for themselves that the choices that were made to protect them were the best ones.

Fuck second chances. Keep children safe. They won't always like it, no. But hopefully once they are older, they will respect the decision.

SirBoob Honestly I am fine with it, I am lucky that I got out, one of my siblings wasn't so lucky so for me I can see the positives for my situation (and most of the "damage" I don't remember).

"Fuck second chances. Keep children safe. They won't always like it, no. But hopefully once they are older, they will respect the decision."

^^ That exactly. I was bitter as hell when I was younger as I wanted to know who she was but now I am older I can see that everyone was doing their damned hardest to protect me and literally save my life!

Glad it's gone. Fucking awful that people were giving advice and I hope his ex will do everything to prevent him coming near her child. She will have grounds surely.

To those on this thread who have had experiences beyond my imagination, my heart goes out to you but I am in awe that you are still here and living your lives and didn't let the bastards win. You should have massive pride in yourselves!!!

YesIamYourSisterInLaw Wed 08-May-13 17:58:13

It's not gone it's still there.
I think it's a wind up anyway, the more he spoke the more his life was turning out perfectly and I just don't buy it

I'm not convinced its a wind up. Total arrogant sociopath unable to mask his superiority complex. If true, it's a pity there isn't a way to forward the entire thread to his poor ex.

TheBigJessie Wed 08-May-13 18:28:10

It has become a universally accepted Truth in some quarters that family courts discriminate against fathers. In my opinion, that definitely USED to happen. Today? Well, I don't know, so I won't show myself a fool by declaring one way or the other.

However, the consequence is that many women are absolutely desperate to prove that they believe in "fathers' rights" (parenting isn't about rights, it's about responsibilities) and they will bend over backwards to show that they aren't the type to maliciously block access for the sake of it. What they miss in their bandwagon jumping, is that even if in general men are, in fact, still being unfairly treated in the courts, that doesn't mean some individuals aren't absolute bastards who shouldn't be allowed near a child. That said, nethuns is a nest of "you're a mum, you know best" too.

TheBigJessie Wed 08-May-13 18:28:36

Some mothers shouldn't get access, some fathers shouldn't get access.

Heleneahandcart1 Wed 08-May-13 18:40:01

Good grief, the thread is back with a scolding from the mods telling people not to upset the poor ickle rapist by calling him a troll

KoreRenati Wed 08-May-13 18:52:36


everlong Wed 08-May-13 18:57:51

The mods actually put regardless of his past

Fucking hell.

Heleneahandcart1 Wed 08-May-13 19:00:01

Where the hell do they recruit these mods from??

FoxyRoxy Wed 08-May-13 19:05:27

Why I stay away from nethuns at all costs. Disgusting.

wonderingsoul Wed 08-May-13 19:11:10

can see it in the papers oon

"net mums help rapist see child"

the mods are ethier reeaallyl stupied or using this as a very clever markting tool to pull people to look at the crappy website.

after all even bad press is good press

ChestyNut Wed 08-May-13 19:14:37

Seriously hmm

What positive effect he could have on his daughters life, I cannot see.

Mother should run for the hills.

everlong Wed 08-May-13 19:25:01

I reckons it's a load of shit anyway.

Screams troll to me.

phantomnamechanger Wed 08-May-13 19:26:51

Speechless. Hope to goodness he never gets to see his daughter. The sad thing is, once he's out and has a clean start somewhere new, there's no telling who he may meet, and seem initially charming, and play at being a good step father figure etc, or even have a baby with a new partner - very worrying - TOTALLY agree you can hear the arrogance and indeed anger when challenged - he still has issues, he's not as perfect as he's trying to sound.

God if I was this child's mother I would say goodbye to everything I knew and run with my child as the sad fact is if he pushes and pushes this through court this young child will end up having contact with a rapist and abuser.

Nuthuns makes my teeth itch.

TheVermiciousKnid Wed 08-May-13 19:32:53

Shame on Netmums. sad

mummylin Wed 08-May-13 19:40:36

It has not been removed I just clicked on the link its still there.

RubyGates Wed 08-May-13 19:51:24

My God. The pink! The Orange! The sparkles! The Bilge!

Make it stop!

That thread is shocking. It amazes me how people think that it's okay to support the man angry

natwebb79 Wed 08-May-13 20:03:49

It's actually made me feel sick. I can't believe that 'Chelle' the Mod. has put that comment on. Disgusting.

Heleneahandcart1 Wed 08-May-13 20:04:24

I'm reading another thread. Are they generally rape apologisers?

BonaDrag Wed 08-May-13 20:12:40

So when someone comes on here and asks 'why do you lot slag off netmums', we can just link to this thread.

The stupid cunts block swearing and ban people for being able to write in non text speak and yet they allow this?

Fucking semiliterate hunning wankers.

It's disgusting. I cannot believe that people like that exist.

And yes, I believe they are generally rape apologists, DV apologists, and generally have a very bizarre view on life.

Coffeeformeplease Wed 08-May-13 20:22:05

I really really hope he is a troll.

Otherwise I would hate to be in this woman's shoes. I'd run as far away as possible, abroad even. The way he talks about taking her to court... I'm about to throw up.

CoffeePleaseSir Wed 08-May-13 20:24:11

This is shocking shock
And the MOD who posted is er very unprofessional.

maddening Wed 08-May-13 20:35:31

even if he could go from just literate to masters degree in 7 years in prison why is that a sign that he has changed - it doesn't mean that he had a personality transplant!

suburbophobe Wed 08-May-13 20:43:33

I think I am more shocked that netmums are letting the thread stand

I think it is good actually that they are letting the thread stand. Always good to get everyone's opinion, even if you don't agree with it.

Worse would be if you didn't let anything be discussed and who would police it? Would you let that be o.k.?
We ain't China or North Korea.

Having said that, if that were the father of my child I would never let him near us again. Even if it meant moving away for her and our best interests.

I'm happy they have let it stand. It's a startling reminder if why nethuns sucks. Also I'm hoping the mum sees it or someone she knows does.

Jengnr Wed 08-May-13 20:56:59

I got to page six before I shut it down in disgust.

And for someone with an alleged masters he can't spell for shit.

Boomba Wed 08-May-13 22:13:18

fucking piece of worthless narcissist violent raping, full of crap, shit


I would wager, he is more dangerous now hes gone and got himself edumacated

fucking cunt

what the hell is wrong with some of those dozy women?????

Boomba Wed 08-May-13 22:16:54

Although there are a few posters on there that need 'rescuing' and bringing over here...

TacticalWheelbarrow Wed 08-May-13 22:45:43

What an arrogant cunt "I'm her father I can enhance her life"
In what world could a convicted rapist and woman beater enhance a child's life?

Just reading that thread makes me sick, I'm disgusted!

TacticalWheelbarrow Wed 08-May-13 22:47:02

I feel for the poor mother of the child in question, how would she feel if she read that? Women giving him advice when she is probably terrified of him!

ImperialBlether Wed 08-May-13 23:03:43

He's a liar.

He says he's got an MA after seven years in prison - that isn't possible. Nobody would be able to start a degree in their first couple of years inside. Then they have to study it part time. That's not counting the fact that most people inside don't have GCSEs and A levels - not being funny, but this guy hardly sounds as though he'd conformed to further education at an early age, though of course he might be an A grade student and I might just be prejudiced.

I still don't believe him, though. And for someone to say he threw someone down the stairs "but she wasn't pregnant" - wtf, oh that's okay then, is it?

thezebrawearspurple Wed 08-May-13 23:15:28

yanbu, some of those comments are frightening in their gullibility! I don't know whether the poster was a troll or real but there was no genuine expression of remorse or understanding, excuses and justifications for everything and no respect for the fact that mother and daughter will have moved on with their lives and the stress his return would cause. I hope there's no way that any judge would agree to force visitation given the circumstances.

Boomba Wed 08-May-13 23:25:37

Jeez...ive just read it all the way through

Imperial he said he was just about illiterate when he went into you think the whole story is a fabrication..or he's just lying about having 'bettered himself' whilst in prison.

Hmm....hes also supposedly landed this mysterious security/high profile/comes with a BMW type job based on what he did which serving in the forces. If he was almost illiterate, how would he have become so high profile?????

I hope it is a wind up. Otherwise, he makes my blood run cold. He sounds very dangerous IMO

Can the thread be passed to the police? Its a good insight, if its for real. Would be very very useful for a judge to read, when deciding whether he should have contact!

ImperialBlether Wed 08-May-13 23:30:44

If he was illiterate then after a while in prison he'd be put in basic skills classes - bit of English, Maths etc. If he was illiterate it would take him years to get to GCSE standard.

I've looked at the OU site for prisoners and it says they do courses from Level 2. The thing is that they have to study alone, more or less, for that sort of qualification, so there's no way he could do that in seven years.

Whether he's real and a scary fucker or making it up and even weirder, I don't know, but he is a liar. And why the hell would someone go onto NetHuns and ask for advice about how to get contact when he is a rapist?

everlong Wed 08-May-13 23:33:00

I can't see this being real.
Why name her?
The grammar and spelling mistakes don't ring true.

Why netmums?

I think it's a troll.

everlong Wed 08-May-13 23:33:53

X with you imperial

just finished reading it. cant believe they put it back up <weird>

was horrified by the early posts but thankfully this afternoon there were posters actually talking sense (im assuming some were mnetters)

and thank god for mumsnet... all those quotes, sparkles, pictures, edits and spellings were giving me a headache grin

i feel so sorry for the little girl and her mum. i really hope they get the help they need. "changed man" my arse... he didnt come across like he'd changed at all angry

Boomba Wed 08-May-13 23:41:25

Why netmums?

True dat. If it was real, he would surely have chosen MN!! grin

I hope to christ its a troll...scarey as hell

Boomba Wed 08-May-13 23:42:30

Ive reported the thread. I think it needs passing to the police. Just in case he is for real

everlong Wed 08-May-13 23:43:56

I'm just laughing to myself at the thought of ' him ' posting here.

Can you just imagine?

BegoniaBampot Wed 08-May-13 23:49:04

i read it. it is some sad troll getting a kick of winding up mothers, rape victims and women who have suffered from DV - really just winding up women and getting their jollies setting off triggers for women who have been through this stuff.

crazynanna Wed 08-May-13 23:49:35

That effing 'Chelle banned me for being a troll caller and for attacking right wing nazi twats on there, after being there for years..and then she posts that response to a rapist...makes loads of sense,does that

Boomba Wed 08-May-13 23:52:08

s'right nanna can say fucking on here!!

Heleneahandcart1 Wed 08-May-13 23:56:40

Does anyone know who 'chelle is? Who is nethuns 'Justine'? What a complete brassneck this all is. I think some of the women on there see a man posting and decide to crawl up his arse no matter what.

oh posting here would have been so much better grin

however i think mnhq would have niped it in the bud fairly sharpish. he wouldnt have got away with half of the rubbish he was saying if it was over here

Boomba Thu 09-May-13 00:03:26

Ooooo...someone should direct him over here...for a different perspective, like grin

crazynanna Thu 09-May-13 00:04:02

fucking...thankyou smile

TacticalWheelbarrow Thu 09-May-13 00:06:58

I'm glad he didn't post here, so many women who post here who have had a bad time could have been affected by his presence on the board. I know loads of women see Mumsnet as a safe place for them to get help from lovely people to get over heir issues.

TacticalWheelbarrow Thu 09-May-13 00:08:01


Plus we are all too good to be wasting our time on scum like that! smile

Boomba Thu 09-May-13 00:09:48

yes, he is certainly very triggering isnt he tactical
you can almost hear his voice..

TacticalWheelbarrow Thu 09-May-13 00:13:02

Yes he is, which is why I am lost for words as to why Netmums haven't taken the thread down. He goes into detail about his abuse and names his daughter in a public forum. I think there is too much info on there and a danger that the poor woman and her daughter could be recognised from that. sad

Darkesteyes Thu 09-May-13 00:24:14

JESUS Sooo glad i chose MN over nh two years ago. That is APPALLING.
Meanwhile Amanda Holden is back having a go at MN again in this weeks best mag.

So THAT gets in the press AGAIN. But the fact that nethuns are victim blaming and practising rape apologism. Well i bet this gets ignored.
After all it doesnt involve a sleb does it.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

piprabbit Thu 09-May-13 00:31:48

Reading threads like that, it does seem that the NM Mods are so busy focusing on the finer details of people's "rights of membership" that they have failed to notice that their moral compass is a bit skewed.

A bit like Sam focusing on his "rights" and missing the wider point about his moral responsibilities to his daughter and her mother.

Darkesteyes Thu 09-May-13 00:45:37

Ive just had a look on that thread. Troll or not the rape and DV apologism on there is mind boggling.

TacticalWheelbarrow Thu 09-May-13 00:56:51

darkesteyes well said re Holden and press, bet we don't get a sniff of this in the news!

I don't want to read the thread so I won't but the thing is, women are told all the time that they should be nice to men, forgive abuse, defer to men. The whole of human history has repeatedly been about insisting that men matter and women don't, and it's not that easy to throw this sort of thing off and stand up and say, actually, this man can get to fuck. He forfeited his rights to get his own way when he started assaulting women.

And I do get the impression that the membership on Netmums is, erm, a bit less well-educated than the membership on MN, so a bit more likely to believe the mainstream mythology that any man is better than no man, and that 'damaged' men with 'bad boy' pasts can be redeemed by the love of a good woman. Etc.

TacticalWheelbarrow Thu 09-May-13 01:19:05

solidgold I agree with you about netmums, in fact I joined netmums as a 15 year old kid with a newborn baby, my mum had kicked me out and I didn't know what I was doing. I asked for support and all I got was snidy comments and advice on what benefits I could claim. I'm not against people claiming benefits but I hated the assumption that as a teen mum I wanted to live my life on them.
Then when I revealed I wanted to get into college and go to uni the abuse turned from being a teenage mother to leaving my baby at home so soon to finish my GCSEs! shock

It's like a different bloody world on there confused

sweetestcup Thu 09-May-13 01:19:37

Dont know if its a troll or not but sounds like a psychopath to me. And that makes him a good liar. Like everyone here I find it more concerning that there were a few posters, not only standing up for him but actively posting vile stuff to fellow posters.

IneedAsockamnesty Thu 09-May-13 01:37:21

Just incase anyone read that thread and is now frozen with fear about a violent convicted ex and the legal situation because of some of the misinformation on that thread can I just take a moment to clarify a few things.

Legal aid for family matters*is*still available for those who financially qualify where provable DV has been an issue the type of proof they need is..

A conviction
Medical evidence
A pending criminal trial
A current protection order
A declaration from a SW
( not a complete list just a few examples)

It is also still available when there are proven child protection issues.

Some years ago a bit about taking DV into consideration in contact cases was added to the children's act however it was mostly ignored. Over the last year or so courts have been bombarded with this message and instructions on actually paying it attention.

I'm not a legal person this type of info does not require one but I am a DV specialist and I just wanted to make sure nobody was frightened by some of those posts.

Obviously if you are frightened by it then you would be being very sensible by getting formal legal advice directly relivant to your personal situation as that is what you require but rest assured that you can obtain it even with the legal aid changes providing your finances fit the LA criteria.

AThingInYourLife Thu 09-May-13 01:41:41

"I'm just laughing to myself at the thought of ' him ' posting here.

Can you just imagine?"


It would have been a pretty similar response, just with more swearing.

Most people would have told him to get to fuck, a few would have realised he was (obviously) a troll, and there would have been the same number of women trying to crawl up his arse and tell him he was an "equal parent".

It would have stayed deleted here, though.

CouthySaysEatChoccyEggs Thu 09-May-13 02:05:33

And once again, I am thankful that when I tried to Google the name of the website my old HV told me about around 8 years ago, that I was a blithering idiot and typed the name in wrong and found my way here...

<<Shakes head>>

RubyGates Thu 09-May-13 07:29:54

He sounds remarkably like a chap I knew who was both violent to women (he married a friend of mine who was a wheel chair user simply to maker her weaker and dependent on him) and a wild fantasist (SAS one week, hush,hush well paid ops in the desert the next) .

He used to beat up my friend and hide her wheelchair, and then he decamped to the other side of Dagenham to live with a woman who had six children already ( who was subsequently discovered to be HIV positive) promptly fathered another child and was discovered to already have had a child with a woman on the south coast. He never stopped with the violence and was a positive menace to the children.

I'd take this chap's self-agrandisment with a pinch of salt (He'd never get security clearance for the job he's boasting about, nor would it come with a choose-you-own BMW), He can't have done the education inside that he says he has, and their other suspicious things that he talks about. Nor will he reveal what else he was inside for. He's clearly a dangerous, charming, plausible nut-job. I think the bare-bones of his story are true but all the rest is Walter Mitty embelishment.

He's a sad dangerous looser who lives with his Mummy and wants to hurt his ex and hs daughter.

RubyGates Thu 09-May-13 07:31:36

Never type before the first cup of coffee.

IneedAsockamnesty Thu 09-May-13 07:44:19

The sad thing is that Ime ( granted its probably different to others due to work) shit loads of fathers looking for advice re contact are blokes who have perpetrated DV.

The child contact thing is just a legal way they can try to further abuse the woman after she has left.

Before some berk jumps down my throat and says women do it to and ohhhh nooo blokes are equal parents blah blah blah not all are abusers blah blah women lie blah blah DV does not mean your a shit dad blah...

1. Most of my clients are women same as any other mainstream DV service and I'm talking about my experance.
2. They shouldn't be if they are abusive
3. True but I'm talking about my experance
4.not in my experance they don't at least not about DV.
5.anyone who actually believes that is daft,DV is a known form of child abuse and beating up your child's other parent shows a lack of care respect and commitment to that child its crappy parenting no exceptions.

IneedAsockamnesty Thu 09-May-13 07:45:37

Sorry ranted a bit there.

BabeRuthless Thu 09-May-13 08:02:37

I've read so many news stories where the man is a fantasist who claims to be special forces or some such thing (Mark Bridger springs to mind) it seems to be a common theme.

Nethuns is so badly moderated. I remember seeing one thread where a woman had concerns about her grandchildrens welfare and one of her main concerns was that at nearly two years old they were still on a milk only diet. The amount of posters who said "Oh I wouldn't worry about that hun" was unbelievable until a health visitor came on and said that actually was a problem. There's also been a poster who has a vendetta against social services and would constantly post a stream of negative stuff with very dubious "evidence". Again they let it stand. It borders on the dangerous sometimes, I can't believe health visitors recommend it.

Featherbag Thu 09-May-13 08:22:35

What disturbs me most is his obvious denial/downplaying/blatant lies about his crimes. He says his victim was someone he'd slept with previously, and on the occasion in question they were both drunk, but she was deemed too drunk to consent. He got 12 years.

My best friend was raped by a stranger who followed her home at 4am and raped her on her doorstep, causing her to suffer significant physical injury (including teeth lost from being repeatedly punched in the face) as well as the massive psychological trauma. He denied it all the way, luckily 3 separate people heard her screams and called the police, giving perfect descriptions of him and he was picked up a few streets away. There was also lots of DNA evidence, and CCTV of him following her home. HE GOT 4 YEARS. That's FOUR, served 2. This disgusting piece of shit is a liar as well as a waste of oxygen. If I was his DD's mother, I would be packing up my worldly goods and moving myself and my DD to the other end of the earth to keep her away from pathetic excuse for a human being.

How come we always end up in the press for completely meaningless shite but this stuff gets overlooked?

After all, that is the website that so many HVs recommend...

BegoniaBampot Thu 09-May-13 09:43:42

I'm sure he is making it all up, it is all quite cleverly done but a total wind up. He is getting his jollies taunting the rape and DV victims over there.

KoreRenati Thu 09-May-13 09:54:26

"How come we always end up in the press for completely meaningless shite but this stuff gets overlooked?

After all, that is the website that so many HVs recommend..."

Quite, essentially NHs gets endorsed by officials, and yet gets to fly under the radar when posts like that get left to stand.

Wonder how much of it is that a site women go to because they are told to is ok, but a website women look for on their own initiative is wrong?

Kore I am totally tempted to tweet that thread to the papers, however I am not sure any would listen as this is a MN thread! angry

We're lovely honestly or sane at the very least, it annoys the hell out of me that it's NH that gets praised. hmm

IRCL Thu 09-May-13 10:13:21

I posted on said thread. I was in the fuck off camp.

Can't actually believe some mothers were advising a convicted violent rapist on ways to see his daughter.

Fucked up beyond belief.

A particular poster made my blood boil. trying to find a reason why I actually still use that site

Crazynana - if you are who I think you are then let me tell you I miss your posts on there!

Just wondering, is the person who made a comment and said "just sayin" at the end of it a MNetter?

I seriously suspected they were!

MummytoKatie Thu 09-May-13 10:43:14

I'm as fluffy a liberal as they come and yet... There is something about that bloke that makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.

Whether because he is a complete troll or because he is a sociopath I don't know but either way my reaction was pretty strong.

Personally I would suggest we meet in a neutral (but private) location. Take a friend with a mobile and hide him / her in a different room with instructions not to interfere but to call the police if worried.

And then tell him that dd has a new daddy now as I have a new husband and the three of us are a very happy family. I would explain what a wonderful man my new bloke is - how successful his career is, how well he supports us all, how much my dd loves him, how she understands that he isn't her biological father but she understands what makes a daddy and that is him. I might also muse about what a wonderful husband he is and how giving he is to me. (All to reassure Sam that "his" daughter is safe, well and happy of course.) There may even be a cheeky comment about how good new husband is in bed.

I would also explain to Sam how it wouldn't be in dd's best interests to know her "father" is a rapist and an abuser and any contact with him would not to be to her benefit and that I am sure he understands. Although I would definitely congratulate Sam on his "little job" as a security guard.

By which point hopefully Sam would have attacked me (violent triggers are definitely still there) and broken the odd bone, my friend would have called the police and I could wave him off cheerfully for another 5 years in prison.

And it would never occur to Sam that I did it on purpose as he has no idea what a pant would do for their child.

MummytoKatie Thu 09-May-13 10:44:32


Parent - not pant!

FudgeyCookie Thu 09-May-13 10:55:56

Considering he was violent to his ex, how is he Ben allowed contact with her?! I was sexually abused by my sisters dad, so my step dad, from 10 to 12yrs old. He was released on licence last year but with strict conditions around contact - eg no contact at all with myself my mum or my sister, not allowed within certain areas for instance he is banned from entering certain places around our homes, he's not allowed cameras etc.
He's gone back to prison for searching on the Facebook for people, breaking his terms.

This Sam says he was also convicted of gbh and theft I think it was, NO WAY would being allowed to contact his ex be part of his license surely?!

MsJupiterJones Thu 09-May-13 11:10:16

He's either a troll or not reformed at all. So much aggression in his responses to those telling him to leave well alone.

And the DV & rape apologism and excuses: if I were to tell you that I had slept with the person before on numerous occasions and this time we were both drunk, indeed she was drunk enough to not be capable of giving consent it may change your opinion of me.

Oh it was just that kind of rape, when the woman brings it on herself? Right. That's ok then. angry

And the responses: I believe as her father he should do everything in his power to be part of his daughters life and I wish him all the luck in the world. Shudder. So glad MN is not like that.

LayMizzRarb Thu 09-May-13 11:11:22

I think he is a total liar, and is writing on the thread to get his jollies. Everytime the attention dies down, he adds another little juicy detail to get everyone going again; attacking him him, and arguing amongst themselves.
Sweeping offices for bugging equipment? He has been watching too many 80's films . does he think he's Tom Cruise or something? A total fantasist, who adds more and more detail to each fact as the thread goes on.

Anyone who believes what he is saying needs to re read what he has written. I'm not a member of that website, and would be banned if I did write on that thread.

Jupiter That kind of rape is no better but he wouldn't have got 12 years for that...

I do believe it to an extent, I think he is a fantasist but I think the basic details ring true.

He's a sick bastard!

I can't believe the level of apologists on there.

BigBlockSingsong Thu 09-May-13 11:20:20

Quite a few of those responses are saying in their shoes they would say no.

KoreRenati Thu 09-May-13 11:20:42

I think there's no doubt he's a troll, it's the responses that scare me

MsJupiterJones Thu 09-May-13 11:28:08

Schro that is true but he's giving the detail to excuse himself, to say ah ha, not such a horrible rapey type now am I?

I also think it's true because he doesn't seem to realise the stuff he's saying is actually making him sound worse to anyone with a brain. Maybe he has enhanced some details (job/illiteracy) but people can move through education quite quickly so he could have done the MA.

I do believe in reform and second chances but in the case of violent crime the victims should always come first - including his child - and there is no way in which his presence will enhance her life.

Completely agree with all of that.

Even if he is a total troll just looking for a rise, I think that the fundamental details are still true and he realises what he is doing, perhaps to justify himself, make himself feel better, have "power" over random strangers?

Either way, troll or not. He sounds dangerous.

LayMizzRarb Thu 09-May-13 11:39:47

When he described fellow prisoners , drug dealers, murderers etc as being 'lower than low' , that is when I would have happily thrown boiling water over his cock.

If it is a real poster and not a troll, he thrives on power over women, rape, abuse and then posting on a female dominated site, lording it over those that do not agree with him.

He, imo, is a very dangerous individual and I hope that the mother of his child has the courage and strength to stand up to him.

Samu2 Thu 09-May-13 12:09:32

They have moved it again to edit it.

I think it would be easier for them to remove it for good.

Its still there Samu2

LadyBeagleEyes Thu 09-May-13 12:17:01

He's definitely a troll and I'm sure he probably trolls on MN too.

Dinkysmummy Thu 09-May-13 12:17:15

I can't believe the audacity!

And I sure as hell can't believe anyone would be happy with setting a meeting for their child with a convicted rapist....


It's not there. confused

Can you only view it if you're a member now?

I noticed that you now need to log on to see it Schro, are NMs now worried about the bad publicity this could generate?

The last few posts on there were critising the Mods, deleting posters for stating their disgust of the OP but leaving the OPs aggressive, disgusting posts standing.

Thankgod for Mumsnet. It might be a 'nest of vipers' sometimes, but at least the majority of posters and the Mods have some intelligence and decency about them.

Can someone take screen shots of it please? (I'm not a member)

That thread needs to get shown, HVs need to stop recommending that website, it's disgusting and dangerous.

MerkinMaker Thu 09-May-13 12:27:56

I think it has been taken down as I can't see it when I'm logged on.

CoffeePleaseSir Thu 09-May-13 13:10:48

Why do they take threads down then put them back up? Surly it either stays or goes, that's just utterly ridiculous, I'm not a member never have been.

Personally I agree it's a troll, getting there sick kicks.

pigletmania Thu 09-May-13 13:29:59

Really if I were the mother I would try my hardest to keep my child as far away from him as possible. He as te capabilities for violence and rape what's to say he won't do it again. These women encouraging him are delusional

IneedAsockamnesty Thu 09-May-13 13:45:07

Last night you did not have to be a member to see it. I read it and I am not nor do I intend to register there.

I expect its been removed because people are talking about how vile and irresponsible it is.

BegoniaBampot Thu 09-May-13 13:57:13

he thinks he is just being clever, pulling everyone's strings, he's lying through his teeth. Probably sees himself as a Hannibal Lector type, arrogant, superior and intelligent who can control and manipulate the weak, stupid women.

And yes, the responses have been more disturbing than this one sick idiot.

ShadeofViolet Thu 09-May-13 14:05:33

I cannot believe threads on NM get pulled for swearing but this is allowed to stand.

BabyMakesTheBoobiesGoLeaky Thu 09-May-13 14:14:43

That thread made me so sad,not just for survivers of rape and domestic violence/abuse but sad that women stand for the perceived rights of scum like that over the protection of others. Regardless of whether the thread is real,the responses have shocked me. Educated women wishing him luck.shock

Smellslikecatspee Thu 09-May-13 17:51:50

Remember you are talking about the same site that allowed a post called a 12 year old gang rape survivor a slut. . .

I got deleted on that thread for challenging them. I may have mentioned that I thought they were a fucking idiot.

The amount of shit this guy is putting on there is shock, the bull about the job etc, well no firm that ever wants a gov contract or a large company account would have someone with a prison record working at that level.

Can't see it at all now.

MerkinMaker Thu 09-May-13 18:18:28

That is disgraceful Smells. It is unbelievable that there are people that think like that.

everlong Thu 09-May-13 18:28:44

That site is really quite dangerous how they let certain idiotic and downright appalling stances stand but delete for saying fuck.

usualsuspect Thu 09-May-13 18:32:53

Have you all complained about it on Netmums?

Not sure what it's got to do with MN tbh.

Boomba Thu 09-May-13 18:34:33

Has the thread been deleted?

everlong Thu 09-May-13 18:37:58

You think anybody complaining about that thread and all what is wrong with it would be listened to usual? I can't see it.

usualsuspect Thu 09-May-13 18:39:48

I dunno Everlong, I don't go on Netmums.

Boomba Thu 09-May-13 18:43:24

I logged in and reported it

BabyMakesTheBoobiesGoLeaky Thu 09-May-13 18:44:58

I have no experience of posting on netmums but surely there is something wrong when a 12 year old child is called a slut by grown women?!shock
It truly beggers belief and I hope my DDs don't end up with a netmum as a friend. I am raising them to be strong independent women not simpering vaginas there for breeding and aesthetic purposes.

everlong Thu 09-May-13 18:46:48

Have you had a reply boomba?

Heleneahandcart1 Thu 09-May-13 18:54:50

Well I reported the thread and politely complained about it and they banned me hmm

everlong Thu 09-May-13 18:57:40

BANNED!! shock fucking madness.

Heleneahandcart1 Thu 09-May-13 18:58:38

Thats the sec

Heleneahandcart1 Thu 09-May-13 19:01:32


Thats the second account they have banned. The first one was when I complained it was highly dangerous to allow posts 'advising' a woman how to cover up for her boyfriend biting her child to social services. Fucking madness indeed.

Boomba Thu 09-May-13 19:02:13

No, I haven't had a reply

But the thread seems to have disappeared?

everlong Thu 09-May-13 19:05:26

Seriously I could not cope with that place.
I'd be banned within the hour of joining!

Why do you guys go there?

I was banned for challenging a rather interesting view which managed to encompass racism, benefit scrounging, and children with special needs all in one page.
It was amazing.

Actually I think it may have been a temporary ban but I cannot go there again. Because I have never in my life come across people like this.

Boomba Thu 09-May-13 19:11:35

Haha! I went there because I was banned from MN!!!! shock shhhhh!

But, its boring as much as anything else...

everlong Thu 09-May-13 19:15:48

You baddun grin

CoalDustWoman Thu 09-May-13 19:20:02

You know when some posters bang on about MN being all right-on and out of touch and it's all PC gorn mad? It's because it's that level and type of thinking to which they are comparing MN. And are not happy because in the rest if their lives, everyone just nods and agrees. No-one really likes to be disagreed with.

usualsuspect Thu 09-May-13 19:22:20

Blimey, it's hard to get banned from here.

usualsuspect Thu 09-May-13 19:23:59

Every forum has good and bad posters.

MN has its fair share of idiots grin

everlong Thu 09-May-13 19:26:00

Nice idiots though hey usual wink

LadyBeagleEyes Thu 09-May-13 19:28:03

You were banned from MN Boomba?
What did you do?

Boomba Thu 09-May-13 20:19:21

A personal attack!!

Im hugely misunderstood grin

No, I honestly never intended any 'attack'...there was a thread where OP was moaning about some neighbour with a superiority complex; her life was a charade. follows long thread, about how awful people like that are, they get their comeuppance etc. People suspected the awful person was a MNer

i posted something like 'OMG, is it XXX?!...and got banned. For naming the name, i suppose.

Daft thing is, all my other posts on the thread were in defence of the 'awful neighbour' (possibly XXX) that, why not just move on, stop obssessing/you lot are as bad, wishing misfortune on her confused

i nice really, honest officer!

crazynanna Thu 09-May-13 20:33:51

Don't worry Boomba...NaziMods always get rid of the more reasonable poster. I was banned for sooo much less. Unless you are NeoNaziMum on just don't fit the Mod's criteria.

IRCL I am the Wolfie Shiney hater if that's any help smile

Boomba Thu 09-May-13 20:35:17

no crazynana that was on here blush

crazynanna Thu 09-May-13 21:34:46

Oh sorry..wrong end of the stick blush

sweetestcup Thu 09-May-13 21:38:28

I have never wanted to join, I really dont think my eyes could take all the sparkle and glittery tickery things plus all the quoting...its a mess to read.

Heleneahandcart1 Fri 10-May-13 03:00:38

Now hes on another thread trying to put off a woman who is clearly in distress. What a piece of shit.

Oh lovely.

A rapist advising a woman who has been raped how terrible it will be for her if she goes to court.

Boomba Fri 10-May-13 06:57:14

I've reported him FFS. why don't they ban him?!

We need to stop health professionals recommending that website to new Mothers and women who may be vulnerable.

My GP made a comment and told me to get off this site when I told her I went on it (full of loons apparently) but my HV etc is quite happy to recommend NMs. angry

Dear God that website is awful, the mods should be ashamed of themselves.

The Mods have edited the thread, it looks like Sams posts have been removed, letshope they have banned him as well, doubt it though.

Boomba Fri 10-May-13 08:17:53

Urgh...the disgusting shit PMd me!

I posted on Hannqhs thread, to say
1 that I had been raped, didn't report it...regretted it. To wish her strength


2. To tell Sam, that rapists were unhwlpful/ unwelcome

His PM, said he doesn't want to argue with me on the main forum, but that it obvious I haven't been raped. That I am not helping 'the poor girl's and I should think more about the impact my actions will have, before posting!!

KoreRenati Fri 10-May-13 08:49:06

Eurgh, he's vile!

Omg, what a disgusting excuse for a person.

MsJupiterJones Fri 10-May-13 11:08:36

The only reason I can think that HVs recommend it is for the Local sites. But it really is extraordinary how endorsed it is. I received an email from the NHS this morning with a link to the 'health chat' page of NM too, which afaics is full of nonsense. Nothing as insidious as the stuff on this thread but still... why?

MsJupiterJones Fri 10-May-13 11:14:10

Boomba that is just appalling.

Sorry you had to go through that in the first place but to have your word doubted by someone like that must be a horrible feeling.

BabyMakesTheBoobiesGoLeaky Fri 10-May-13 11:27:52

He's scum,pure and simple.

No Jupiter, I was recommended it for weaning advice and other such things.

I am very glad I was already a member here instead!

shock holy crap!

wtf are they thinking over there?

the more i hear about that site... the more disturbed i feel about it

The HV recommended it to my sister in law.
I dont know why they are pushing this site, it is not a good place to be.

Boomba Fri 10-May-13 20:13:50

jupiter I don't think I would expect his attitude to be any different. He is a violent rapist after all. I agree with everyone else though; the really dangerous thing is all the silly women reinforcing his views and opinions. More than that, Netmums endorsing them by not deleting and blocking him, quicker

Smellslikecatspee Fri 10-May-13 23:33:14

I think they have now, very late but. .

LayMizzRarb Fri 10-May-13 23:36:57

When he posted this, my blood ran cold. I'm not a member of that site, but please someone tell me that he has been banned and all his posts removed? So the site that bans you for saying 'fuck' allows a so-called rapist to write this? ( and this text was visible to anyone on the Internet for quite a while) :

I'm saying this for no other reason, other than I think that this is the right thing to do. Be aware that if you do want to take this all the way to court, that things are only going to get a lot lot worst for you. For a start you will have to see the guy again. For another, you are going to have to face a barrister (probably qc) who is going to rip you to shreds. For a start he is going to have to point out that the first thing that you did was come onto an internet website asking for advise before reporting it, and for another they are going to go through all your previous sexual history trying to make you out to be a complete slut. On top of that they will make an issue of you being drunk and taking a man home with you... Basically they are going to make out you are at fault.

To top is all off, you are going to have this humiliation in front of this guy. You are going to have it in front of his friends and family, and also most likely your own family. If you think now is bad, then you need to appreciate what it will be like.

Like I said. I am not trying to upset you with that. But it only fair that someone is going to tell you what is really going to happen.

edam Fri 10-May-13 23:41:17


Never fails to amaze me how dangerous apparently well-meaning people can be...

If this had happened on MN, HQ would have stepped in, I'm sure. Netmums is incredibly irresponsible.

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