aibu to buy a new car?

(97 Posts)
smokinaces Mon 06-May-13 15:04:14

I am a single mum of two. Have been for four years. I have worked the entire time, four days a week at around £10k a year. I get dla for ds1 (aspergers) and some housing benefit as well as tax credits. I budget well, and try and spend wisely.

My car is ancient. Twelve years old, 135k miles. It has been patched together so many times it is a money pit. It will fail the new style mot in the summer. It is making a funny noise when I steer, and when I break. It is on its last legs unless I put about five hundred pounds into it.

I have found a deal on a brand new small cheap picanto for me and the two boys. It's safe, reliable. It would need no deposit and cost me 170 amonth - more or less the dla money. Until October I pay £150 a month on a bank loan from my marraige breakdown four years ago. Come then it will be only twenty quid a month more. And i wouldn't need to use the dla money anymore. (I also get csa money which isn't allocated to anything as although some weeks its regular, others its not)

I need a car for the boys to get to school (rural setting) and me to work. I need it for ds's various clubs for his aspergers (he does to one every other day)

I could extend my bank loan, but would mean I would have to get another seven or eight year old car. This new one would be zero road tax, and insurance and breakdown is included for first year. It's also got seven year warranty and no mot needed. If I get another older car it could end up a money pit like ky current one.

But I have been made to feel I'm out of order for buying new. That being a single parent in social housing receving benefits and tax credits, although I've worked continously since i was 16 and am studying for my degree as well as working a four day week, i shouldn't be getting finance or anything. And I know it will cause raised eyebrows and commets at the school etc.

Aibu?

smokinaces Mon 06-May-13 15:06:30

Apologies for the awful typos. I am on my phone!

CajaDeLaMemoria Mon 06-May-13 15:06:44

There's benefits and drawbacks to new cars.

They do depreciate the second you buy them, so it will never be worth what you buy it for.

But, new cars only need MOTing when they are three years old, most new cars come with good 5 year warrantees that'll cover any problems, and they do tend to be lower tax and have better insurance deals.

Don't feel bad. And ignore any comments. These people should have better things to do than comment on other people's vehicles.

SkinnybitchWannabe Mon 06-May-13 15:08:33

If you can afford it then don't give a damn what other people think and go for it.
It sounds like a great deal.

HollyBerryBush Mon 06-May-13 15:08:50

I don't see how spending your money is any one elses business.

Personally I would never buy a new car, you lose 20% of the value the second you drive it off the forecourt. Use a main dealership, that has all the warrantees in place and get a 6 month old second hand one, thus saving thousands.

litterrage Mon 06-May-13 15:10:49

Personally I would wait until the summer just before your MOT is due. Cars can last a long time these days and 12 years old isn't ancient. Noises don't always mean something horrendous. My car lasted 21 years before I finally (with many tears) got rid of it. There was absolutely nothing wrong with it and was regularly checked. I ended up having to get rid of it after an accident which led to it being a write off.

VinegarDrinker Mon 06-May-13 15:12:49

I would get a new to you car, but personally even if I had all the cash in the world and actually owned or wanted to own a car I wouldn't buy one brand new.

GoingUpInTheWorld Mon 06-May-13 15:13:05

If it feels right and you can comfortably live each month, not living on the breadline, then i would buy it.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

VinegarDrinker Mon 06-May-13 15:14:43

Just re-read, 12 years old, so 2001? I wouldn't call that ancient! The last car I owned was a 2001 Micra and I was dead chuffed that it was new and fancy (ie had central locking and power steering!).

smokinaces Mon 06-May-13 15:16:33

This noise is bad. I crashed it a few years back and the steering and wheel has been bad ever since and I was warned it would cost a lot to fix. The gear box is seizing too, reverse takes about eight attempts, and still sometimes won't stick.

This deal is a three year lease style thing - so its not the whole lot of finance straight up, hence the deal. It's also on the style they have on offer at two k off, plus insurance etc. I know the depreciate, but my idea is that I keep this long term (refinance at end of three year lease to buy it outright) as I know it could last me ten years or more.

I had a look at second hand - to get the same monthly payments and safety features etc I would have to go six years or older.

I've had old old cars before, a corsa that ran and ran and ran at older than this. But this one is now unsafe to be perfectly honest. I'm scared every time I drive it tbh.

ENormaSnob Mon 06-May-13 15:18:43

You will lose thousands on buying brand new.

Nothing to do with anyone else what you spend your cash on though.

smokinaces Mon 06-May-13 15:20:20

Vinegar, I think because its an ex company car and the mileage on it it feels older than it should if that makes sense. The garage every year is surprised it only needs two hundred odd spent to get through the mot. I have replaced almost everything - clutch, exhaust, suspension twice, antiroll bar stuff twice, I have paid thousands on it. But nothing on it seems to last - its had two rev counters since ive had it and its died again.

Longdistance Mon 06-May-13 15:20:28

I've always bought brand new cars, apart from my very first car. I do know they depreciate in price, but I keep my cars for about 7 years, and then get a new one.
I've never had any problems with them as know where they've been and have never had a massive mechanics bill that I hear people talking about.
The most I've parted with is £300, for tyres.
I say go for it!!!

smokinaces Mon 06-May-13 15:21:11

But the losing thousands buying new thing - does that matter if I'm not planning on selling the car if that makes sense?

Longdistance Mon 06-May-13 15:23:07

I part exchange my old one for the new one as part deposit.

VinegarDrinker Mon 06-May-13 15:23:46

Yes, it does sound a bit unreliable. I ran a 1994 Fiesta until 2009 and the most I ever paid out in garage costs was £200, never needed anything done twice either.

I would replace it, but not with a brand new car. The 2k you "save" with their deal will be lost as soon as you drive it away, plus whatever you pay in interest over the next 3 years.

smokinaces Mon 06-May-13 15:24:23

Ha ha longdistance. Mine is worth scrappage of £130! I've checked!

I always buy new cars on 3 year lease deals and swap them at the end of the deal for a new one. While its true that the car will depreciate as soon as you drive it away there are other advantages. You don't have the hassle of trying to sell it and if you stay loyal to the same brand then they will reward you on your second and third car. It will all be under warranty so you have hassle free driving for 3 years.

How you spend your money is entirely up to you. Go for it.

smokinaces Mon 06-May-13 15:27:15

The interest is 4.9% so lower than my bank by a substantial amount. I know the two k would be lost as soon as I drove off, but thought it kind of offsets that if you like? Or maybe I'm just trying to justify to myself. I do feel bad the idea that I am spending money, but if ds got higher mobility instead of lower we would have gone down the mobility car route tbh so its not much different I guess.

smokinaces Mon 06-May-13 15:27:57

AKiss, that's exactly how the guy at the garage stated it.

Gobbolinothewitchscat Mon 06-May-13 15:29:29

I am like others on this thread in that I wouldn't buy a new car.

It's up to you but I would worry about a piccanto. I had to use one a few years ago as a courtesy car and it felt like a tin can. I was terrified on the motorway as I was convinced a lorry would squash me grin. However, if your just tootling around town etc, it should be fine. That said, I'd rather a decent secondhand golf or polo even than a new picccanto

Is it reliable? How expensive are parts? Are they easy to get? I don't know the answers to any of this but would investigate if I were you

Gobbolinothewitchscat Mon 06-May-13 15:33:22

But you don't need to lose the 2k. Just get a good second hand picccanto that's been driven carefully by an elderly lady (don't think would be too hard). It should have low mileage and will probably end up being 2k cheaper than new

If you get a new one, then you might have to keep it for 7 years to justify. However, if you get a decent 2nd hand one, then you might just need to keep for 5 years to justify the cost.

How reliable are piccantos? Will they really last for years? Again,, I don't know. I would call up a decent independent me handicapped and ask as obviously the sales people will say anything!

Gobbolinothewitchscat Mon 06-May-13 15:34:32

"Mechanic" not "handicapped"! confused

People saying buy 6 month old car are spouting shit.

You get MUCH better finance deals on brand new, cancelling out the VAT loss.

I only ever buy brand new. And DH is a bigwig in the car industry.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lljkk Mon 06-May-13 15:39:37

How many miles per year do you currently do?
I think there's a lot to be said for peace of mind in a reliable car with a good warranty. You know you can afford it.

Your old car has to go, I agree, it's a matter of what you get to replace it with.

Mine was 18 months old with ? ~12k mileage & still under manuf. warranty for 6 months, with dealer warranty for another year after that. About £3k off of new price, otherwise. I probably paid over the odds because I just wanted it done with, hate car shopping. You are busy too, I think.

specialsubject Mon 06-May-13 15:40:05

new cars drop a thousand or two the second you leave the forecourt. Only someone who works in the car industry will recommend buying new, unless money is no object.

buy a year or two old and let someone else pay the depreciation. Ex-company cars are good as they do long journeys and get serviced.

ginmakesitallok Mon 06-May-13 15:41:19

What about getting a very nearly new car, one with delivery mileage, one that's been used as a test drive car? Can often get the same finance as with a new one. With the deal you're considering don't you have to pay off a balance at the end of the hire term?

KatAndKit Mon 06-May-13 15:42:45

I bought a one year old car - it was as good as new, I still had two years of warranty left on it, very low mileage too. I wouldn't have afforded it new but it was a great deal at one year old and only 5k miles on the clock.
170 a month is a fairly hefty commitment especially when you are on a low income. If you can afford it without putting yourself into a hardship situation and you like the car then that is up to you of course. Since you are used to paying 150 a month then it is unlikely to affect you all that much. But what will you do between now and October?
I wouldn't buy an 8 year old car unless I had to, I'd rather have the cheaper make but newer.
I don't know about piccantos as I have never driven one.

TidyDancer Mon 06-May-13 16:15:58

I would never buy brand new and I also have family members in the car industry.

NaturalBaby Mon 06-May-13 16:20:13

Normally I wouldn't even think about buying new but there are some really good deals on new little cars like the Picanto. You sound like you know what you're doing and deserve it. As much as I think it's a waste of money to buy new, it is a little luxury that I really appreciated a few years ago, so YANBU.

gallifrey Mon 06-May-13 16:22:58

buying a new car is the best thing I've ever done.
It's so good knowing that you have a reliable car. No worrying about getting it through an MOT every year and having to spend a fortune on it. If anything goes wrong you can just get it done under warranty.
I would never have an old car ever again

MadameJosephine Mon 06-May-13 16:25:09

Can you not use your dla to lease a car via the motability scheme? My brother gets a brand new car every three years using his dla

smokinaces Mon 06-May-13 16:33:51

Dla can only be used for mobility scheme if you get high rate mobility. We get low rate.

I don't budget in my dla, csa or child benefit to my weekly and monthly budgets. So that's 160 + 130 +130 a month currently spent on things like outings and booking holidays, and doing up my house. So it would be tight till October but not uncomfortable.

I wouldn't buy an old style picanto, so pre 2011. They are tin cans. They are reliable, but not as safe ncap wise.

I looked at the finance options on forecourt pre registrations and they are more money and require a deposit, which I dont have.

I have looked second hand too, and to get one only one or two years old I need 6-7k which will be a big thing for he bank to lend me.

This deal is three years, plus a lump sum at the end (or give car back) it means the 8k cost is spread in two finance options, at 4.9% hence being able to get the finance on my income.

My plan is that this car lasts me seven years. It comes with a seven year warranty and would, all going well with my studies, take me up to my first year teaching.

I think I've just seen too many threads on here "my neighbour is s single mum with a brand new car, were eating bread and water, benefits are bad" etc to feel comfortable I guess.

My mum virtually kissed the floor when I said about it - she hates my car and me driving her grandkids in it.

smokinaces Mon 06-May-13 16:36:12

And with the lump sum at the end you can take a loan and pay that over three years too if you need.

Brand new this car is costing around £8k

andubelievedthat Mon 06-May-13 17:06:38

Have you checked weather you are entiltled to a dis ability car due to your sons condition?,may be worth asking ,and , as those cars are maintained to a very high standard ,they make a great 2nd hand buy

WakeyCakey Mon 06-May-13 18:17:30

Just a note I have a Kia picanto that I bought brand new and I wish I hadn't.
Although it is amazing for tax etc it has the world tiniest boot And a whole host of problems.
I personally would never recommend it as a good car. Cheap yes, but a terrible drive and will become a money pit a lot quicker than most cars.
I also bought it with 2k off as scrap page deal and so to me 8k would be a total waste of money!

But practically I do agree you should replace your car and that you should use the money that you are getting from DLA to get it as realistically for where you live it is a necessity

crashdoll Mon 06-May-13 18:24:30

It's not really my business what someone else spends their money on but as you've asked.....

I think buying new unless you really have the money is a waste of money because as said above, you've lost money as you drive off the forecourt. I recently went into a Nissan dealership, brand new Micra for £9K or 1 year old one under their "cared for" scheme for £5K. My mechanic friend said picantos are not worth it either. Just my 2 cents though.

saintmerryweather Mon 06-May-13 18:37:04

I bought a new car and have never thought 'god i wish my first car was a shitter, rather than this beautiful machine built just for me'. Ive had it 3 years now, its never broken down it sailed through its mot and its just beautiful.

I paid higher monthly instalments so i didnt have a balloon payment.

andubelievedthat Mon 06-May-13 18:37:33

I hope this addition to my previous post is not crowding this/your post but ,I googled the name of your anticipated purchase and asked my bloke( vehicle nut job),he says to tell you that with a 7 year warranty you will be very lucky to give that vehicle away when time comes to pass it on ,coupled with low initial price ,the build quality is "cheese" to answer your aibu ? absolutely not ,you so obviously need a car ,screw what others think .

It might be worth you looking at a Seat Ibiza OP. They are a similar size to a Kia but nicer and there are some good deals on them at the moment. Good deals on Fiat Puntos too.

Snog Mon 06-May-13 18:48:21

You need a safe, reliable, economical car.
Buying brand new is never going to deliver on the last one in that list but it sounds like you have your heart set on it!

34DD Mon 06-May-13 18:53:20

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

crashdoll Mon 06-May-13 18:54:33

"god i wish my first car was a shitter, rather than this beautiful machine built just for me."

If money was tight, I would feel resentful that I spent more on a car and lost money due to resale value depreciating in the way it does with brand new cars.

PearlyWhites Mon 06-May-13 19:18:49

I was going to say yabu because the dla is not for you to spend as you please it is for extra expenses solely relating to your ds aspergers. However if you need a new car for your ds to attend his clubs then no yanbu. Is no ones business what car you drive.

saintmerryweather Mon 06-May-13 19:23:35

Money wasnt tight for me i could afford my car. but like i say its never given me a moments trouble, ive never had to wonder if it was going to start.

Plus im not planning on selling it any time soon, i bought a car to keep so it doesnt matter to me that it lost however much value when i drove it off the forecourt. i didnt have to.pay any additional costs with it and had free breakdown for 3 years

Sallyingforth Mon 06-May-13 19:24:52

I'd say go for the new car if you can afford it - providing you intend to keep it for several years and don't expect to outgrow it with a bigger family. The initial value drop will not be noticed if you are going to keep it. Newer cars are more efficient now and use less fuel, plus you will have a very long warranty.

If you're going to keep this new car for 10-15 years, then yes, buy new. If you're looking for something shorter term 2-3years then buy 2nd hand. It works out the longer you keep a new car, the depreciation doesn't matter.

You're not out of order for getting a new car, you're getting something reliable, safe and affordable.

MiaowTheCat Mon 06-May-13 19:40:31

"Have you checked weather you are entiltled to a dis ability car due to your sons condition?,may be worth asking ,and , as those cars are maintained to a very high standard ,they make a great 2nd hand buy"

... one of the reasons we jumped to buy the one we're picking up tomorrow - it's an ex mobility one. I'd never buy a new new car - because of the depreciation factor (and the fact I'd be shit scared of denting it), but this is about as new as we're prepared to get.

We've just had to make the same sort of decision (without the stigma though) - our car just failed the new-MOT brutally (talking three pages of failure notes and four digits before the decimal point on the repair estimate, plus a tonne more advisories for next year)... economically it wasn't viable at all to keep it running - which I hate the idea of because the idea of scrapping cars that still run is just awful to me (we always handed them down in our family wherever possible - but my younger brother's car's newer than ours anyway so we're pretty much at the bottom of the pile).

The idea of less worry regarding things going wrong based on old age of the car is a nice change for us though.

Of course the day we sign the paperwork the council puts the signs up about surface dressing the roads near here and loose chippings everywhere - bye bye nice shiny scratch-free paintwork!

WMittens Mon 06-May-13 20:32:39

"And with the lump sum at the end you can take a loan and pay that over three years too if you need.

Brand new this car is costing around £8k"

So you'll be paying for this car for 6 years?! Rather you than me.

Of course dealers want to tie you in to finance (cash is most certainly not king when buying cars) - you reach the end of the three year lease and you have no car - then suddenly another fantastic deal pops up and you're signed up to another three years, and still don't own a car at the end of it, living forever hand to mouth.

Car marketing is very adept at making people think they can afford brand new cars ("LOW monthly payments!") - all you have to do is look at your income (after other outgoings) and ask yourself if you can drop £8K on a car - if not, you cannot afford the car. "New" means the car depreciates faster; "finance" means you pay interest to a finance company; this is how they get you to pay large amounts of money and still not have anything at the end of the term.

A very quick search has turned up a 2011 Picanto with just over 10K miles on it, a 2010 model with 12K miles, and a 2009 with 7500 miles all for about £5500. I've just found a 2013 model with 3K on it for £7000. Kia has been selling cars with a 7 year warranty for a while now, so you're still going to have the balance of that, which is another 4 years on the oldest one I've quoted.

Ponyofdoom Mon 06-May-13 21:19:21

I am definitely with WMittens, I would never buy new; its such a waste of money. Your best bet financially would be to repair the car you have got and get another year or two out of it. If you want a newer car then get something better quality, second hand for a lot cheaper than £8k. Stick it on a 0% credit card instead of expensive finance. I have recently bought a gorgeous 7 year old Jaguar for £4.4k and I don't see why she shouldn't last me 10 years, barring disasters, why would anyone want a new Kia instead of a middle aged Jaguar IMHO smile My old car is 17 years old and still fine.

a new Kia will be much cheaper to run than a 7yo Jag! Cheaper road tax, cheaper petrol, no MOT needed for first 3 years, probably cheaper to insure too.

Ponyofdoom Mon 06-May-13 21:26:35

Actually my Jag does over 50mpg and the road tax is about 180 though agree the Kia would beat her on that one! She sailed through her MOT too (smug!!) It would take a lot of repairs and road tax to make up the 3.6k difference in price!

Ponyofdoom Mon 06-May-13 21:27:17

and the insurance is cheap because I am old ;)

WMittens Mon 06-May-13 21:35:32

a new Kia will be much cheaper to run than a 7yo Jag! Cheaper road tax, cheaper petrol, no MOT needed for first 3 years, probably cheaper to insure too.

Yes, but not by as much as you think - Ponyofdoom's Jag was £3600 cheaper than the £8K Picanto, which can get you:
- 9 years car tax difference (assuming £430, it might be a higher band though)
- about 18000 miles of petrol difference (assuming 50mpg for the Picanto, and 20mpg for the Jag)
- 120 MOTs

And remember with this you get full leather, walnut dash, cruise control, electric massaging heated and cooled seats, heated steering wheel, 300bhp, smooth automatic gearbox, air suspension (actual spec varies, obv.) - I know what I'd pick.

WMittens Mon 06-May-13 21:36:24

Cross post, Ponyofdoom I take it yours is LPG'd?

smokinaces Mon 06-May-13 21:38:33

I am stuck between rock and hard place with finance / loan.

If i go for second hand, most I can afford is £3-4k which means I have to buy older. This means car will only last me four to five years again. And will inevitably cost repair wise.

If i could get a 2011/12 I would. But I can't.

0% credit cards are only for a year or two. Then the Apr is higher.

I have a Peugeot 206 at the moment, so size wise its almost identical. Apart from a slightly smaller boot. (Newer models have bigger boot than older style)

I would be looking at keeping it for 7 years plus. God if I can keep it going to twelve years like my current car all the better.

Low rate mobility element of dla means we can't use mobility scheme. They told me its high rate mobility only. I would only be using his dla money - or part of it - for four months. And yes, I need the car for everything, his groups on mondays and wednesdays and Saturdays are in the next town or village. As is his school. And their dads house, who doesn't drive. And my work.

I have only heard of good things of kias tbh. I wouldn't touch a Peugeot again. Vauxhall I looked at, as they have 0% finance but the cars are bigger and heavier and still roadtax and higher insurance. Seat and Honda are reliable but out my price range. As is volkswagon - though I would love a polo I admit.

I remember when I replaced my old car with this current one. All I could get on my three k loan was an eight year old car which has had no end of faults. I guess this has made me rather apprehensive I guess.

The insurance on a jag alone for me would be a years payments I swear!

Ah I don't know. I'll have another go at auto trader. But really fixing my current car is not an option. And neither is a 1-2 year old car on my budget. I might get lucky with a six year old car I guess, but that would need replacing again sooner so is it false economy?

If only i were rich and this all a moot point!!

Ponyofdoom Mon 06-May-13 21:38:43

diesel!

OP, seriously, get the new car.

smokinaces Mon 06-May-13 21:41:32

And I need little little car for parking round here. Some of the gaps I have to get my car into in my road are titchy. A nice big JAG is out the question unless it comes with a chauffeur ;-)

My stepdad had a gorgeous jag once.

TheCraicDealer Mon 06-May-13 21:44:44

I recently bought a new fiat 500. It is my pride and joy (her name is Margot). Anyway- I had initially thought about getting a second hand one, but I didn't want to get a bank loan as the APR's on those made the monthly repayments on a 6-7K four year old car car nearly £300 a month- and I wasn't even looking the whole amount in a loan. I also need a car for work so reliability/a warranty is really important for me. Coupled with the fact my worrier Dad was scared I'd get diddled by a second-hand car salesman, it made sense for me to buy new.

Buying new and taking advantage of low APR's can be a good idea for some. If the OP is buying this car and can safely afford those payments and knows that at the end of the lease it's likely she'll be able to pay it off then go for it. Yes it depreciates- all cars do. At least with this one she'll have a full warranty and can pick what she wants. Is that worth the 20% premium, considering it'll be offset somewhat by the low APR? Only the OP can decide that!

OP, take a look at the Skoda Citigo- it's basically a VW Up! but a tad cheaper, think they're made by the same manufacturer. Incidently, VW's APR is lower again and the Up! was the WhatCar Car of The Year 2012. I know this because I nearly bought one.

smokinaces Mon 06-May-13 21:48:19

thanks craic i will have a look at both of those. I need three seats in the back, which ruled out the c1, Adam and ka so will check out the up.

Theselittlelightsofmine Mon 06-May-13 21:48:32

Can you not get a new car through the DLA money?

Theselittlelightsofmine Mon 06-May-13 21:49:52

Do you get a higher mobility rate of DLA for your DC?

smokinaces Mon 06-May-13 21:54:01

No these, I get low rate care and low rate mobility

inabeautifulplace Mon 06-May-13 21:59:55

I understand where you're coming from, it's nice to have a brand new car. I had a similar choice recently and chose to buy something 6 years old. Here are my reasons:

In 3 years I'll own the car outright. It'll be worth about 80% of what I paid, because most of the depreciation happened before I owned it. The previous owner lost £2.5k in 2 years! The owner before that about £7k in 4 years!

I can have the car serviced wherever I want - not needing to pay main dealership prices. I think this could be a condition of your warranty, can they still do that?

An MOT costs £50, so paying for that isn't an issue.

I got to choose a car I really wanted, rather than having it slightly dictated.

To feel better informed, I would add up the initial lease costs including interest, plus the cost of financing the final payment. Look at that number, then think about what kind of used car you could get for half of it, leaving much more than enough to cover any problems that might occur.

jackstini Mon 06-May-13 22:00:10

Why buy at all?
Have you looked at leasing a new car?
Having worked out the difference between depreciation and lease costs we have leased our last 4 cars.

Change every 2/3 years, no MOTs, tax included and all under warrantee.

Doesn't have to be a big car either - you can get a Citroen C1 for under £60 a month. smile

inabeautifulplace Mon 06-May-13 22:13:18

With a big deposit?

WMittens Mon 06-May-13 22:19:54

I am stuck between rock and hard place with finance / loan.

If i go for second hand, most I can afford is £3-4k which means I have to buy older. This means car will only last me four to five years again. And will inevitably cost repair wise.

Why can you get finance of £8K, but not a loan? If your credit rating is that bad, are you sure you'll get that good a deal on the Kia?

If anything, we're telling you to buy older - £4K will get you a lot of car.

0% credit cards are only for a year or two. Then the Apr is higher.

Then you do a balance transfer to another 0% card - it costs less than 3%.

The insurance on a jag alone for me would be a years payments I swear!

You'd be surprised, insurance can be quite low on Jags because they tend not to be crashed so much.

HerrenaHarridan Mon 06-May-13 22:20:31

I have been scouring this thread hoping it would bring some resolution to my similar dilemma, it has given me a headache and now I'm going to bed, I think I'll try and understand it all tomorrow!

Littlehousesomewhere Mon 06-May-13 22:26:10

Our car is 13 years old and I wouldn't consider it ancient yet. I would call it "older", although it is in very good working order so maybe it is just a better make/model than yours.

I would buy a new car and then keep it "forever". This is what I'm planning on doing for our next car, hopefully we won't be needing one for another 5 years or so.

I wouldn't worry about why others think. Research it though and make sure it is considered a reliable make/model as imo cars shouldn't have big problems or be called ancient until they are 15+ years old and you don't want to make the mistake of choosing a poor make/model again.

WMittens Mon 06-May-13 22:26:38

Why buy at all?
Have you looked at leasing a new car?
Having worked out the difference between depreciation and lease costs we have leased our last 4 cars.

The leasing costs are the depreciation - you pay for the loss of value plus finance house profit.

Doesn't have to be a big car either - you can get a Citroen C1 for under £60 a month.

For that sort of deal it's going to be, what? 6+36 months or 6+48 months and 5000 miles p.a.? Also, leasing ties you in to the deal, at least with PCP you can get out of it at any time, if circumstances change.

Whichever way you crunch the numbers (and I've done a lot of crunching!), driving around in a new car will cost what a new car will cost - there's no way around it, just shuffling numbers.

This has just reminded me of another point - GAP insurance. Add that in to your calculations - if your car is written off in an accident, you owe the difference in value and the balance of the lease.

WMittens Mon 06-May-13 22:27:29

Ponyofdoom
diesel!

Ah, I was hoping it was an XJ. Is it an X-Type or S-Type?

smokinaces Mon 06-May-13 22:29:41

WMittens, my credit is fine. I mean for my monthly outgoings. This finance is done on a 60/40 deal - you pay 60% over the three years like a lease, but at the end you can either refinance the remaining, or hand car back, or trade in etc. So the initial finance is a smaller amount than it would be if I bought outright, and not as long a commitment - and on an apr of 4.9% which my bank cant get near.

Credit cards, well to get one with that kind of limit would be difficult surely? My current card has a top limit of £4k. (and is a card Ive had a while so apr isnt great, I need to switch tbh, even though there is very little on there)

There just dont seem to be the decent cars, with the safety ratings etc, out there on an affordable monthly payment when I have no deposit. My car has been valued at £130 scrappage. The only places when I rung up and enquired locally which would take on low finance apr with little or no deposit were the main dealers of Vauxhall and Kia. The smaller garages wanted either a larger deposit or a higher apr.

Jackstini who do you lease through at £60 a month for a C1? I need 5 seats (shared school runs) so cant go that small, but at that price it could be an option.

WMittens Mon 06-May-13 22:29:54

Yes it depreciates- all cars do.

Not true, but it's got to be interesting enough for there to be demand; admittedly your average shopping car isn't going to qualify.

smokinaces Mon 06-May-13 22:31:09

Littlehouse, thats my aim, to buy and keep. I am never ever going near Peugeot again thats for sure!! I've had 15/16 year old Corsas go and go, but this has been a sinking ship for a while.

WMittens, I have looked into GAP insurance as well, its on my list. As is if I take up their deal on the first years insurance checking about excess and protected no claims.

I do around 8-9000 miles a year town driving. Very little further than that. My insurance even with 9 years no claims and 11 years driving with a clean license is stupid money, but thats because of where I live sadly. I'm not sure with the 8-9000 if leasing is worth it or not.

Ponyofdoom Mon 06-May-13 22:31:57

Wmittens sorry to disappoint you, but she is an X Type smile I needed an estate to fit my big dog into. She is still stunning though!

Ponyofdoom Mon 06-May-13 22:33:01

Full leather, handles beautifullysmile

WMittens Mon 06-May-13 22:35:53

My car has been valued at £130 scrappage.

That's because scrappage only goes on the weight of the metal in it. Why the hell would you scrap it? You'll probably get three times as much on eBay, webuyanycrap.com would give you more as well. Scrapping isn't the only option.

How many miles do you do a year? I've just looked at a Kia finance example and it's restricted to 6000 miles per year.

In terms of credit, you don't have to borrow e.g. £5000 just because the car you're buying is £5000; you could borrow £15000, get a lower APR and stick £10K in the bank, and using it to pay off the higher monthly repayments.

WMittens Mon 06-May-13 22:38:46

Just seen that you do up to 9000 miles a year - if your deal is similar to the Kia example I saw, your finance deal could cost an extra £1341!

On top of interest, admin fees etc. it could get close to £11K by the end!

Littlehousesomewhere Mon 06-May-13 22:40:56

I just read your last post, I would definitely go for a new one with the intention of keeping it 'forever' but I would most certainly research and ask advise about makes/models that are reliable and go for that, that would be my number one priority.

A car really should get beyond 12 years old without all the problems you've had. Even if it means paying more for something more reliable.

No advise on what to choose though as have no idea about that.

LazarussLozenge Mon 06-May-13 22:46:53

OP

I've not read pages 2 - 4.

Buy the car if YOU think it is worth it and you can afford it. Ignore what anyone else thinks. You don't have to justfy what you spend your money on.

Old cars maybe cheap to buy, but they can be very expensive to maintain.

You need a car you can rely on.

If you buy new, the car is yours. You take care of it and it will go for years without yo uhaving to put in any more in to it.

Also a new car may be cheaper to insure/tax.

A tip from my own life. I put aside (each month) money to cover insurance/mot/servicing/tax. It keeps my finances clear of 'blips'.

smokinaces Mon 06-May-13 22:53:05

WMittens, Honestly my car is worth jank to be frank. It needs steering done, antiroll bar stuff done again, the gear box done. It is unsafe. It has dents and scratches from having been crashed into a wall and hammered back out a few years back. It is honestly worth the scrap value - we buy any car offered me £90 from memory!!

The finance example I have in front of me states the 9000 miles a year that I told them. I'm not just going off figures from the internet. I will of course be double checking it though. A friend of mine got a much better deal than I will ever get - but because she had a 4k deposit.

I'm not able to have £10k in my bank long term. Certain income I have, such as my rent benefits, is restricted on my savings etc. And surely taking out a £15k loan (which I did years and years ago at £249 a month for 7 years or something from memory when interest rates were different) on my limited income would be rather irresponsible? This way I am borrowing a top figure of what, £5k? I'm sorry but I really dont understand that point you made.

Littlehouse, I agree. No car should have had the problems mine has had. I borrowed £3k for that car. And adding it all up I have spent around £550 a year maintaining it for 4 years :-(

On the subject of scrappage, I'd get more for my 16 year-old car that way than through webuyanycar who offered me £50.

Fifty pounds! I was insulted on behalf of my poor car.

With reference to depreciation, it's only relevant if you ever plan to sell it. Our main car was brand new when we bought it and we intend to be its only owners. (I've never sold a car other than for scrap as our previous ones have all been old bangers we've bought for cheap and driven til they died. This one will be no exception.)

smokinaces Mon 06-May-13 22:56:25

Lazaruss, I do already do the money aside - but I cant afford the money aside for big mechanical problems etc. But I do budget my insurance monthly (at a premium sadly) and timed my car tax to be the month I dont pay Council Tax, my MOT after my birthday so I use any gift money I get for that and its when I'm not at work so if its off the road for a week its not so much of an issue. I used to use post office stamps to save for my car tax till they told me they didnt do it anymore?

I always try and have a little left each month for "blips" - this would just swallow that for a couple of months. Which means crossing my fingers my fridge freezer and washing machine that I have lovingly maintained for 10 years dont die on me!! I WILL get them through another year ;-)

smokinaces Mon 06-May-13 22:58:23

We buy any car dont like my car. I only have 1 key. It has bodywork damage. It used to be a lease car. All things that to them make it worthless!

WMittens Mon 06-May-13 23:00:37

I'm only going off Internet figures as that's all I've got access to at this point; you haven't mentioned the arrangement fee, option to purchase fee, GFV/final balance or excess mileage charge, so I'm working with what I can.

The point I was making about the loan doesn't apply in your case, if it's going to affect your benefits. It's simply down to banks giving lower APRs on larger amounts - e.g. 7.9% up to £10,000, 5.1% up to £15,000, etc. Borrow more, have a lower APR, put the remainder in a savings account to get (a little) interest. It works out cheaper than a smaller loan if you're disciplined (and if it isn't going to negatively effect your income, as it does in your situation).

smokinaces Mon 06-May-13 23:06:52

WMittens, this deal has no arrangement fee, no option to purchase fee and has been based on my 9000 mileage, so I have looked at those bits. I also dont pay anything until a month after I take delivery of the car - and that is a standard payment, no double payments or extra admin fees or anything. I double and triple checked that. I have spent days and days looking at all of this, and trying to work out the best thing finance and money borrowing wise. I've even entered competitions to win cars <stupidly hopeful> but alas, no joy.

I guess I just hope that if I go new, I eradicate all the problems with my current car, that could strike again with a second hand where you dont know the history. Nothing worse than ringing work yet again to say you'll be late for a meeting because your car battery has blown again, or (and this did happen) your spare wheel has fallen off and rolled down the hill causing you to chase after it, or your handbrake has failed again etc etc. I have so much stress in my life with juggling the kids and work and DS1's groups and Uni I just thought, is it worth the depreciation and the extra money to get something to eradicate that bit of stress for a few years.

smokinaces Mon 06-May-13 23:09:38

But thank you for all your suggestions. I am honestly going to look into all of them again tomorrow and make sure whatever decision I make is right for me - and ignore the original part of my AIBU which worried about other peoples opinions if I do go for it.

It may be this deal is for me. It might be that someone else gets a new car this weekend and theirs is on autotrader for me tomorrow. Or it could be that I just stick my head in the sand <joke>

But now I have more ideas, about 2nd hand, makes, models, deals and leasing. Just to add a few more grey hairs ;-)

Ponyofdoom Mon 06-May-13 23:13:04

Good luck, if you don't mind the expense a 7 year warranty is rather nice to have!

WMittens Mon 06-May-13 23:16:03

Sure, back to your original question, sod what anyone else thinks! (And yes, I do include myself in that.)

LazarussLozenge Mon 06-May-13 23:29:31

You do what you need to do with what you have. No judgement from this callsign.

Don't fret about the old car, get rid and forget. There is nothing to be gained from thinking about it.

If you can't get stamps anymore you could 'piggy bank'. I have a number of accounts, with transfers set up. I am paid monthly so a few days in to the month various accounts get paid in to. ie car (mot/tax/servicing/small amount offset increases or work) and OU (I'm studying for a degree with them)

A new car shouldn't need any major work for a good few years, I thnk you said 7 years warranty, but you need to check what is covered.

For piece of mind, do you know anyone who can help you check over your finances with you?

Also, how long does this deal go for? Could you run your current car in to the ground, buying you time to build up reserves a little?

jackstini Tue 07-May-13 10:48:57

Go onto contracthireandleasing .co.uk They cover most companies and are easy to compare.
Think the Kia was just over £100 a month
Can just put in the mileage you want and search the best onesgrin
Certainly worth a look see!

Startail Tue 07-May-13 10:57:55

YANBU I live in the sticks and unreliable money eating cars are ridiculously stressful.

I've had one brand new car and between us DH and I have had 3 one year old no MOT good warrantee second hand ones.

In your position I'd take what ever gives you an affordable finance deal to get a stress free, under guarantee set of wheels.

ultimatecarleasing95 Sat 11-May-13 05:42:18

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Iaintdunnuffink Sat 11-May-13 09:53:01

We've had a mixture of new and nearly new over the years. Our family car needed replacing earlier this year as it wasn't worth spending the £'s on it to keep it safe and reliable for a few more years. We looked at nearly new and various car loans but went for new because of a finance deal that worked for us. I'm very happy smile

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