To think that if not being able to go for a piss on your own is true then I'd rather just adopt a ready made one?

(218 Posts)
LollyLaDrumstick Mon 06-May-13 13:17:17

Always thought I wanted babies, but the stuff I see on here is absolutely bewildering.

Having to eat one handed every meal because you have a baby clinging onto you? Not being able to leave them alone for 5 minutes to have a shower? Getting interrupted when you're having a 30 second piss? Not even being able to go for a piss in the first place as they cry when you leave the room?

Is this true? Or is there a type of parent that seems to make out what an awful time they had in baby years so they are perceived as a superior parent?

My hard-hat is well and truly donned wink but please, do let me know the truth about this so I'm not taken by surprised in the future. It all seems a bit stressful!

serin Mon 06-May-13 13:20:37

Everyone does it differently, mine have never really followed me to the loo (but the dog does grin ).

For every one little thing you sacrifice the rewards are greater.

DomesticCEO Mon 06-May-13 13:23:01

The eating one handed thing doesn't last long - in fact I'd forgotten about it until I read your post!

Children are amazing but bloody hard work - if you're ambivalent I wouldn't bother having them tbh!

Mrsrobertduvall Mon 06-May-13 13:23:05

I managed to pee in peace, and have a shower....they were put in their chairs or cot.
You can't hold them every minute of the day!

KansasCityOctopus Mon 06-May-13 13:24:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

issimma Mon 06-May-13 13:25:13

It all happens, especially in the early days, but not every meal and every wee --usually-.

kotinka Mon 06-May-13 13:26:03

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Fairylea Mon 06-May-13 13:27:33

Happened to me with both of mine, but that stage doesn't last long! Few weeks at most. But yes, babies are hard work and they do tip your life upside down. I think sleep deprivation is the worst part..nothing can prepare you for that. And I'm lucky .. both mine slept through from 10 weeks. Most people suffer far longer than that!

jacks365 Mon 06-May-13 13:27:35

I've just got used to having company in the bathroom and don't think anything of it, hopefully will help when potty training as she sees it as normal. I've eaten a few meals one handed or bouncing chair with a foot. Its not much of a hardship to do.

MysteriousHamster Mon 06-May-13 13:28:37

It's true but it doesn't last forever. I have a 2.5 year old and sometimes I'm allowed to wee in peace, sometimes not smile

I mostly have hot meals that I can eat with two hands, but sometimes I spend half of it cutting his food in half.

In the early weeks or months it's hard - and it also changes. eg when they're a baby you might be able to leave the room and have a shower, but when they're six months old they might wail when you try it.

Some people might wallow in shouting their struggles, for many it is simply tough and they need to be able to talk about it here or to friends. It can be tough and lovely - that's how it was for me. It gets easier and nothing is as all-encompassing as a newborn's needs.

'Ready made' children (both just older and older and adopted), just challenge you in different ways.

Peevish Mon 06-May-13 13:28:48

It is stressful, but surely that's a foregone conclusion once you have a child? I would be lying if I said the first year of my lovely baby's life hadn't been very hard in ways I would not have understood before having a child, and the physical stuff like no more solo peeing etc was the least of it. But the love is also astonishing in ways I could never have foreseen. I think Anne Enright says somewhere that after you have a child your life gets much harder and much better.

wonderingsoul Mon 06-May-13 13:28:55

babies..
babies are easy (in my expearance) both babies where dreamsextreamly laid back, untill they hit 3.

even if i had to carry them about every where becasue they would cry when put down... imo still easier then toddlers and children.

babies stay where there put, you dont find them trying to jump of the fridge freezers, you dont have to deal with p lay ground poltics, you dont have to worry when their out of your sight.. at school.. at friends.. and they dont back chat you.

point is. cherish the baby stage, your be looking back at it in foundness becasue things only get harder the older they get. grin

quoteunquote Mon 06-May-13 13:30:14

At most only fifty percent of the time, as you split any demands with the other parent.

Sparhawk Mon 06-May-13 13:30:37

My daughter sleeps in her bouncing chair if I bounce her with my foot, I do everything I need to do around her sleep routine, with no hassle. Never had to eat one handed. I'm using cloth nappies too and I manage to get them washed when she sleeps, it's not all bad.

HollyBerryBush Mon 06-May-13 13:31:22

I know not of what you speak!

Never had a one handed meal. Babies were put down, meals occurred, showers occurred, ablutions occurred, all without an audience.

In my day >dinosaur< it was the strict 4 hour thing and dare I use the phrase "trained like puppies" grin. It's merely a matter of getting a routine and body clocks established.

I don't know anyone of my age who a glued on baby. Seems to be a new phenomenon

LadyBeagleEyes Mon 06-May-13 13:32:19

I always managed to shower and go to the loo alone.
I did eat one handed the first month but I stopped BF and after that it was fine wink

LittleLisa78 Mon 06-May-13 13:32:50

How old are you, Holly?

wonderingsoul Mon 06-May-13 13:33:12

dreamsextreamly was meant to be dreams, extreamly laid back.

Geezer Mon 06-May-13 13:33:25

No it is not true.

These situations are what bouncy chairs, cots and play pens were invented for. I managed to get my children out of infanthood without ever taking one into the loo with me. It really is possible, I promise you. The only difficulty is that you'll get a skewed viewpoint on MN because playpens are regarded by some types of parent as virtual child abuse. grin

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HollyBerryBush Mon 06-May-13 13:35:45

47, eldest is 18

pinkr Mon 06-May-13 13:35:57

Hell i'm 33 and if i'm at my dads and he's having a bath after work I'll sit at the door and natter away...poor man must be desperate for a quiet bath grin

HollyBerryBush Mon 06-May-13 13:36:09

oh yes, agree, bouncy chair thing is your best friend!

LadyBeagleEyes Mon 06-May-13 13:39:11

I wonder if it is an age thing Holly.
My ds is 18 in a couple of months, and I managed all that you did.
I just muddled along though, there weren't any of them new fangled things like parenting websites.

Trill Mon 06-May-13 13:40:37

YABU to think the answer is to adopt a ready-made one - they are just different kids of hassle as they get bigger.

ToomuchIsBackOnBootcamp Mon 06-May-13 13:41:55

Well I liked having my baby near me all the time so wasn't an issue for me anyway! And the first time Ds said "love mummy" was when I was sitting on the loo and he was sitting next to me playing. That's one memory I will never forget! It's usually only a short period, then they get old enough to amuse themselves while you get on with things. But that physical closeness gives them good mental security. Read up on attachment disorder before you decide you don't want to have a little one close to you.

HollyBerryBush Mon 06-May-13 13:43:25

No, I cant say it was a generational thing either - parents were dead, so it was all instinctive with a little bit of HV thrown in for good measure.

but to be fair, I was the tail end of the 'have it all' generation, you know, the ones whose main aim was to get back to work ASAP and get totally burned out trying to be Nicola Horlick.

HollyBerryBush Mon 06-May-13 13:45:01

>nods< 13-17 - you really want to rehome them. Give me a newborn any day than a hormonal teenager in the throes of some traumatic angst.

jacks365 Mon 06-May-13 13:45:04

Holly i'm 44 my eldest is 19 i have always fed on demand and always carried round.Yes i've had occasions when i've had to allow for needing to feed a baby so when dd3 was a baby i would prepare for everything 30 mins early to allow time for a feed if needed. I'd rather be early than late even if it meant waiting in the car.

It just doesn't bother me having my dd4 in the bathroom with me she's now 18 months so i've got both hands back for eating.

LollyLaDrumstick Mon 06-May-13 13:45:46

Well I obviously don't think that adopted children are an easier time confused it was a bit of a lighthearted thread title, as is this thread. I'm not here to judge anyone's parenting choices, it's just interesting to see how they change over time. I am a 90s baby and fitted into my parents life, nursery at 4 weeks, CC, in my pushchair at the pub with their friends- not musical soft play toddler groups, and I can't say I love them any less because of it. grin

It's just when I think of myself with a family- I see myself with children not babies. Was anyone the same?

bicyclebuiltforfour Mon 06-May-13 13:46:04

These were true for #1 (aka PFB).

Less so for #2. He's left to cry a lot more than #1 ever was... ;)

PuzzleRocks Mon 06-May-13 13:47:24

pinkr grin

Cakebaker35 Mon 06-May-13 13:52:41

Everyone's experience is different but instead of thinking about whether you want a child, think about are you with the right person to have that child with. In the end bringing a new little person into the world is bloody hard work at times but having a supportive and loving partner does make the tough bits that much easier. I take my hat off to those who do it alone, we had a tough start due to some medical stuff so without my other half the whole thing would have been grim indeed. Personally I found the first 6 months super tough but thankfully now my DD is 18 months things are so much better now and I definitely can go to the loo without an audience :-)

HollyBerryBush Mon 06-May-13 13:53:21

Attachment theory was born out of work done on orphans post WWII.

It was about the presence of a constant care giver providing needs ie emotional attachment - I don't think I was actually meant to construed as a physical attachment. Although phrases get adapted and used in later years.

>too deep for a sunny afternoon<

Restorer Mon 06-May-13 13:55:36

I think most parents will have experienced some or all of what you describe, but not usually at the same time. If you are that squeamish about sharing a bathroom though , i would suggest parenting is not for you - you certainly won't avoid it by adopting and over 20+ years you will make much bigger sacrifices. The thing is, most parents find they make them gladly.

Ehhn Mon 06-May-13 14:00:05

I'm glad this thread has started.... Because I'm struggling with this myself. I tutor kids so maybe I see th bad side (expense, worry, failing, bad behaviour, bullied, mental health probs) but my boyfriend of 6 years wants kids and I don't. Mainly because I ride horses competitively (at a level that is potentially dangerous), I like going heli skiing and ski touring and I play rugby. I cannot see a way in which I could have children and still live this lifestyle. And I just love my sports so much; it goes beyond just a hobby, it is a total way of life - even though I have a phd, I am choosing tutoring instead of a career so I can devote myself to sports.

I just see all the struggles, expense, loss of free time and I don't see how you can maintain your identity and life and have children. I have started following mumsnet for some hope and I've found new problems that I never even considered! Is there anyone out there who can bring an alternative view? Is there anyone who has managed to maintain their sporting life at the same level of competitiveness with kids? (May need to cross post in the stable forum on MN?)

MoominsYonisAreScary Mon 06-May-13 14:01:12

Most babies will be put down for a few mins while you shower/pee unfortunitely it tends to be when they want to, not when you want to iuswim.

Toddlers can be left if you have a child proofed room, if you don't you could come back to find them climbing the bookcase/fridge table. It's not forever

Jan49 Mon 06-May-13 14:04:04

I never needed to take my ds to the toilet with me, though I remember having some showers with him in the bathroom in a bouncy chair. When I read the thread about the baby crying when the parents are eating dinner, I couldn't remember ever having that problem. I think my ds would mostly have been asleep or happily playing on a mat. He didn't cry a lot. I remember once going into the kitchen and seeing the mug and teabag next to the kettle where I'd placed it with plans to make a drink about 10 hours earlier and had never had the chance since, but I think that was in the first few months. Having said that, parenting is the hardest thing I've ever done and I think if I were just choosing the easy option I'd get a kitten instead.shock

MoominsYonisAreScary Mon 06-May-13 14:05:50

ehhn I guess it depends on a few things, could you afford your sports and the expense of dc?

Would your partner be happy to take on the majority of the childcare at weekends/evenings while you persued your sports?

I never had any interest in babies and knew nothing about them.
I sort of assumed that one day I would feel different and maternal instict would kick in. It never did. At 36 I said we should make a decision yes or no and stick to it.
We decided that we did not want to risk regretting having no children. Actually I never thought I'd get pregnant as in all those years I'd never even been a day late and so many people allegedly get pregnant while using contraception.
5 weeks later I was pregnant. I spent 9 months in fear and trepidation in case I had made the worst decision of my life.

It was the best thing we ever did. It almost feels as though I've had two different lives as an adult.My boys are the most wonderful thing that ever happened to me (number 2 was my 40th birthday present). The early years were hard but we have never been anything other than thrilled at being parents.

BUT all those things you said are true and if I had known about them I would never have made that decision. I would have been wrong and I would not have known how little those things matter compared to how hugely life enhancing the children have been.

Squitten Mon 06-May-13 14:07:18

In my experience, none of those things were true. There are always moments of madness though so never say never!

HollyBerryBush Mon 06-May-13 14:07:21

I just see all the struggles, expense, loss of free time and I don't see how you can maintain your identity and life and have children

Well you have to have a decent support network, probably close and fairly young parents/ILs of your own who want to share bringing up a child. If you are fairly isolated in terms of support, then no, you aren't going to manage to maintain a lifestyle with hobbies that you are used to.

No idea about the sports aspect, I'd all but given up competitive sport by the time I was 30, but I had the career aspect. For us it wasn't sustainable (no living family) although for a very close colleague, she was indeed back at her desk 2 weeks post birth, and took a 6 month posting to Thailand when her DS was 3 months old.

Perfectly well brought up by his grandparents and father, perfectly normal child, no relationship issues with his mother either. She worked away on contract until he went to uni, whereupon his father took early retirement (at 48) and joined my friend full time in Sri Lanka. That is a good example of role reversal, although she was slated by her peers for being so unmaternal.

Restorer Mon 06-May-13 14:07:44

Ehhh, the answer to your problem is, imo, that after dc your priorities change and you just dont want the same things anymore - its why you can't make a decision on returning to work before baby arrives, you have no idea how you'll feel. The only certain thing is that whatever you think life with dc will be like, it wont be like that , but it is great.

thegreylady Mon 06-May-13 14:07:53

It will be up to you-cribs,play pens, and bouncy chairs will do for babies while you have a loo/shower break.I chose to shower at bedtime usually. When you have a toddler I would again shower at night but they do tend to follow you to the loo and tbh you will feel happier if you can see them.If you are lucky they will play in a child proof room for a few minutes but until my dgs's were 3ish I just left the toilet door open and let them come in if they wanted-it helps potty training too smile

jacks365 Mon 06-May-13 14:10:46

Ehhn just to add another thing to your list how thick skinned are you? because doing the sports you do and having children will get you comments about being selfish and not thinking about the risks.

My exh got comments about his sports though i was fully supportive but it got to him and upset him.

Fluffypinkcoat Mon 06-May-13 14:11:25

I don't think its true for everyone either. I've never had a one handed meal, never had company in the toilet or in the shower. I do think I've been lucky with how easy going dd is though. Even when I had the shits and got stuck for 30 minutes at a time, she managed to play in her cot for me quite happily.

InNeedOfBrandy Mon 06-May-13 14:12:02

I lived with my nan after my first one for 4 months and my nana had established the 4hr routine within the first couple of weeks and dd slept through from 6 weeks so no I had it very easy compared to how I see others do it all baby centric and in arms all the time. I put ds is same routine and again never had a problem with going for a wee or a shower or out for coffee. Most of the baby days were spent going out for coffee tidying up and reading books on the sofa all day.

Fluffypinkcoat Mon 06-May-13 14:12:19

And just to add, that doesn't mean we aren't close the rest of the time smile

derpityderp Mon 06-May-13 14:13:05

I've a 3 week old and an almost 3 year old.
Showers are fine. Livingroom is gated and safe in there so 3 year old is fine locked in there for a few minutes with the tv and his toybox. Then I bring new baby upstairs and pop her in the moses basket.

The problem I have is eating. I swear most of the time when I sit down to have something baby will start crying as soon as my arse touches the seat and then when my back is turned my eldest will eat my food if I don't keep my eye on him.

I usually end up with baby in one arm having a bottle, the other arm is feeding myself and the bottomless pit that is DS who wants whatever I'm eating.

gordyslovesheep Mon 06-May-13 14:13:28

it's down to you and what you feel comfy with - I am like Holly, but my eldest is 11 - I just did what I needed to and didn't fret - if I wanted a shower I left the kids with my ex while I had one or, if just one small baby, left them playing in their cot

I never ate a meal with a baby on my ram - baby went into a cot or chair

if they cried when I left the room then I just went quicker, but a bit of crying didn't hurt them

now they are mobile I have much less privacy - they all like to come and talk to me when I am in the bath!

piprabbit Mon 06-May-13 14:13:51

It is such a very, very short window when they need you in a way that feels all consuming.

Mine are 9yo and 5yo now and they are starting to spread their wings a little. Every day I can see their physical dependence on me lessening. It is a little sad, but they make me very proud.

kotinka Mon 06-May-13 14:18:32

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Viviennemary Mon 06-May-13 14:20:58

It isn't easy but I don't subscribe to this can't take a shower without baby, can't go out the room, have to rock and sing to sleep for six hours. I just don't subscribe to that kind of parenting. But it's everybody/s choice.

workhouse Mon 06-May-13 14:24:48

Before I had my two (9 and 15) I often imagined what it would be like with babies, not all idyllic stuff, just how I thought it might go. It turned out to be completely different smile Not bad just different.

When my daughter arrived, she's now 15, I looked at this little soul blinking up at me and thought "hello stranger" she was utterly different to the baby that I was expecting. But she was the most fascinating and precious thing that I had ever seen, and that was after a horrible birth.

I didn't carry the babies everywhere, I used a playpen for answering the door and going to the toilet. I don't think that I had a bath when they were in the playpen I had them in there in a bouncy chair. Bedtime was the time that they needed constant touch, my son would fall asleep on me for a long time, and was very reluctant to have his own room.

Everyone is different and parents differently, I was never a carry around mum and I didn't spend an awful lot of time on my hands and knees playing with them either, but my husband did. All periods of growing up are stressful and enjoyable in their own ways. I am loving the mum and daughter times that we spend now, shopping in camden, going for coffee etc. but then there is exam worry and rows that just come out of nowhere, which is par for the course of living with a teenager.

MoominsYonisAreScary Mon 06-May-13 14:28:42

It can depend on all sorts of things, age gaps.some people may find that they never have a problem with the first but the second comes along and is totally different.

I find it more difficult with the age gap between ds3 and 4, it can sometimes be tricky to find a time when they are both occupied and happy to be left.

CoteDAzur Mon 06-May-13 14:32:07

It is all true. Your life is not your own in the first couple of decades months of a baby's life.

Adopting a toilet-trained 3-year-old who sleeps through the night isn't a bad idea.

Cakebaker35 Mon 06-May-13 14:34:00

Ehhn it is absolutely possible to keep up sports, you just have to be organised and have a relaxed attitude I think. I'm not into competitive sports any more but my partner is, trains 6 days a week, and even when we had a rough time at the start he found the time and energy somehow to fit it in because he loves it. I also have a mum friend who plays competitive sport during the week and every weekend and takes baby along too, so I really think if you want to you will find a way to combine things. But over time your priorities will probably change a little anyway, as will your body, so you might find you just naturally do a,little less but then you spend time introducing your child to those sports so you might just become a family of sports lovers and that will be a whole new level of fun.

sunlightonthegrass Mon 06-May-13 14:38:34

Cake, I'm on my own! grin Rather that than an unsupportive partner, mind you!

Cakebaker35 Mon 06-May-13 14:42:16

Hats off to you Sun! And absolutely better no partner than a rubbish one smile

sunlightonthegrass Mon 06-May-13 14:45:24

Thanks! grin

Vivacia Mon 06-May-13 14:45:58

Am I the only one who finds the wording of the title offensive? I know your post is a bit tongue-in-cheek, but "just adopt a ready made one" seems very dismissive towards adopted children and their parents.

Geezer Mon 06-May-13 14:50:15

Vivacia, yes, possibly you are.

catlady1 Mon 06-May-13 14:52:52

It's all true, but people have different ways of dealing with it. Some parents will choose to carry their babies around with them, let them in the bathroom when they're toddlers, never go out without them etc, and some will choose to put them down and leave them to cry a little while they get things done, leave them with babysitters, and close the door while they have a wee. Neither is right or wrong, babies do need lots of closeness and attention, but not necessarily from a mother who is stressed out thinking about all the chores she hasn't done while she hasn't had a minute to herself, dying for a wee and starving from not having eaten all day. A few minutes in a playpen or bouncer won't hurt them, and managing to have a shower or breakfast before 12pm can make a huge difference mentally.

Anyway - yes, babies can be difficult, but toddlers and older children aren't necessarily any easier, and it's all about how you choose to parent. You just need to find a balance that works for you both.

neunundneunzigluftballons Mon 06-May-13 14:57:35

Things definitely change when you have kids my not so budding surfing career never took off for example. Some women carry on exactly as was but in my experience they are few and far between but for the most part that is because women embrace the chaos and change. As most have said it is not for ever I am starting back to easier times as my last child is 18 months mind you I expect the peeing in peace to be accompanied by teen angst though.

KoreRenati Mon 06-May-13 14:59:19

DS was like this before we found he was lactose intolerant, very clingy and upset all the time. Thankfully that's all changed now, it was knackering.

silversmith Mon 06-May-13 15:08:34

"It's just when I think of myself with a family- I see myself with children not babies. Was anyone the same?" - said, um, someone up thread a bit.

Yup - me - exactly!

And all the people who said, 'ah but you'll feel differently when it's your baby'. Well - no, not really.

My very cute toddler (he gets continually lovelier as he gets older and more independent), follows me to the toilet, which is sometimes annoying but does at least mean that I can see what he's up to, rather than hearing him trashing the bedroom which he's got into by hanging from the door handle and not being able to do anything about it.

And as for the identity bit - it's not competitive sport in my case, but a similarly life-consuming passion. If you're determined enough, and have the backup (and you need to trust the people you're leaving your child with), you can keep doing it (maybe after a 3 month break), but it does take a hell of a lot more organisation than it used to. I was bloody minded about it, and wore myself out trying to keep everything going without it looking difficult to outsiders, but I had a point to prove!

As for the thing about changed priorities - well yes - that too - but that was the last thing I wanted to hear when I had a week old baby. The Health Visitor tried that one, 'Oh but isn't it nice to have a lovely sit down breastfeeding, after that busy life you used to have?', 'No it bloody isn't - I liked my busy life and would like it back please!' And the 'No - life doesn't get back to normal, you have a new normal' from someone else who thought they were being helpful. 'Normal' is just harder work.

JulieCarp Mon 06-May-13 15:08:48

I had never heard of anyone who couldnt pop to the loo without an audience before I joined MN.
Have BF whilst eating -not a big deal and as they got older we all ate together.

Cloverer Mon 06-May-13 15:24:01

Depends on you and depends on the baby.

For the first few weeks we did the meals in relays/eating one handed thing. DS started going to bed fairly early in the evening by about 2 months though so then we had dinner in peace!

Eating one handed while breastfeeding was still a useful skill though, as it guaranteed uninterrupted meals in restaurants grin

I showered when DS had his morning nap as a baby. Once he was a toddler we could play in his room or watch TV for 10 minutes.

He's never really insisted on coming to the loo with me - when he was a baby I would leave him on his playmat or bouncer. However once he was 2 and potty training it was often easier to take him with me.

Ehhn Mon 06-May-13 15:40:39

Thanks v much for the replies, especially of the experiences. I don't want to hijack the thread but kind of figures it fits with OP.

Have more questions and thoughts I'd like to put out on here - should I start my own thread??

kotinka Mon 06-May-13 15:45:35

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NotaDisneyMum Mon 06-May-13 15:46:19

My DP can't shower, take a phone call, or even use the loo without his 9 yr old hunting him down and knocking on the door - and DPs ex (DSS mum) rarely gets a nights sleep without DSS waking and joining her in bed.

It's not just babies and toddlers, no matter how old your DCs are, there's no guarantee that your life will ever be your own again!

firesidechat Mon 06-May-13 15:46:31

I know not of what you speak!

Never had a one handed meal. Babies were put down, meals occurred, showers occurred, ablutions occurred, all without an audience.

In my day >dinosaur< it was the strict 4 hour thing and dare I use the phrase "trained like puppies" . It's merely a matter of getting a routine and body clocks established.

I don't know anyone of my age who a glued on baby. Seems to be a new phenomenon

What HollyBerryBush said.

I still like my tea lukewarm because that's the temperature it was when I finally got to drink it in the very early days. Also had to abandon my chinese takeaway on our first evening at home with new baby. But we pretty quickly worked out how to balance babies needs with our own. Don't know what's changed in the 25 years since. I didn't know till I came on MN that going to the loo by yourself was an issue.

I had a bouncy chair too.

ToysRLuv Mon 06-May-13 15:48:26

Thing is, you will not know exactly what kind of parent you will be and what your children will be like. Some babies cry and cling mire than others, also some parents have a lower tolerance for the baby's distress/ cries than others.

I had a crying baby and low tolerance (his crying made me feel distressed), so ended up holding ds most of the time. Never thought it would be like that. Don't regret it, mind you! But probably will not have another one.

ToysRLuv Mon 06-May-13 15:51:16

The loo thing really doesn't matter to me, btw. I always leave the door open anyway. I accept that it might be just be my Scandinavian mindset.

Geezer Mon 06-May-13 15:54:44

" I didn't know till I came on MN that going to the loo by yourself was an issue."

At last, I'm not alone. I don't know anyone out there in the real world who takes a small child with them when the go to the bathroom. confused

ToysRLuv Mon 06-May-13 15:57:02

Before I came on MN, I never realised that having a small child accompany you to the loo was such a problem. grin

Lonecatwithkitten Mon 06-May-13 16:00:26

For me they didn't all happen together. As a newborn DD was very unsettled and I ate one handed and only took a shower when someone else was there until she was about 8 weeks.
The going to loo was difficult then, but is even worse since the age of 4 it's like she has an inbuilt radar and immediately needs something the moment I go to the loo and it is still going on at 9 years.

tethersend Mon 06-May-13 16:04:40

Babies are cunts.

The fact that you think they're worth all that shit is testament to the miracle of love. Parents only go on about all the shit bits because they can't explain the overwhelming feeling of love the they have for their children which makes them put up with it all.

Geezer Mon 06-May-13 16:04:45

grin @ ToysRLuv

Loa Mon 06-May-13 16:06:28

I see myself with children not babies

I was like that - mainly as I had little knowledge or experience or interest in other peoples babies.

I got an extremely clingy first one and it was tough - - but I also had a good delivery and the full hormone bonding thing kick in with a vengeance so it felt right at the time.

I had thought older DC would be fun - actually babies just moving till about 2 ish are the best ages IMO now.

A lot of things I thought I'd enjoy with older DC haven't work out that way - though other things are fun. I think fact I'm on my own with 3 DC most of the time which is leaving me pretty exhausted doesn't help me fell the fun.

Loa Mon 06-May-13 16:08:09

fell the fun - hmm feel.

School runs and home work being things that take so much timebut really aren't fun.

MrsHoarder Mon 06-May-13 16:15:35

Showers and eating were fine with a new born (although I preferred to go for a soak in the bath after dh got home). Ok so I didn't have got drinks in the daytime for a while but for the time it takes to eat some cereal/a sandwich ds was fine in the bouncy chair.

He does come to the toilet with me now, but that's because he's a climber and determined to be in the same room as me. I've rather have him follow me and go for the tub of toys left on the bathroom floor (left at baby-height for this reason) than hear him pull himself up on the door and struggle to reach the handle.

And I'm a fairly relaxed parent, he comes into our bed if he wakes in the night night and still ebf. I could try to be stricter but we have a "cot is for bedtime"rule and no space for a pay pen, so for now he comes with me (crawling comically fast)

MoominsYonisAreScary Mon 06-May-13 16:20:09

tethers I don't mind babies, it's bloody toddlers for me! Yes they're funny but bloody annoying to.

Oh and 18 year olds that won't tidy up

FarBetterNow Mon 06-May-13 16:24:41

I don't think it is a generation thing at all.
I'm 60 and had a velcro baby 35 years ago, so did some of my friends.

They are all different and it probably depends if you are able to eat your meal with a screaming baby nearby.

I think if the bathroom door had been glass, she wouldn't have wanted to come in with me.
She used to watch through the glass back door whilst I pegged the washing on the line.
I have a friend with a very relaxed baby. He'd sit in his push chair whilst she played tennis.
He is still very relaxed to the degree that he can't be bothered revising for his A levels.

joanofarchitrave Mon 06-May-13 16:30:37

Largely about the baby's character multiplied by your own. I just found it easier to take the baby in to the loo with me, no stress, never bothered me. Try and force them to stay out if they want to, and then you get crying and what not. But quite a lot of babies are happy enough in a playpen or whatever.

There is always the option of going back to work full time at 2 weeks; plenty do and why not?

Similarly, ehn, there are lots of competitive sportspeople who are also parents; off the top of my head, Mo Farah, Bradley Wiggins, Steve Redgrave...

MrsHoarder Mon 06-May-13 16:40:52

Paula Radcliffe, Zara thingybob if you're interested in mothers...

ImTooHecsyForYourParty Mon 06-May-13 16:42:56

Well, it doesn't last long.

I had two babies 15 months apart and muddled through. They cried and crapped mostly. grin

If I needed to do something, then they just had to cry for those few minutes - eg going to the loo. If they were fine, they were fine, if they cried, well, they cried until I got out of the loo.

What I didn't do was leave them to cry if I didn't need to. I didn't see the value in trying to teach them that there was no point crying. If they were crying it's cos they wanted or needed something. If they could have talked, it would have been mum mum mum mum mum... grin (that comes later wink ) My personal choice and I know others make a different choice.

And you know what? I blinked and they are now 12 and 13 and both taller than me. Those years went by so fast you would not believe it.

The throwing a sandwich down my throat, the speed pee, the contemplating making a deal with the devil in return for an extra pair of hands - long distant memory.

And it makes me feel sad sometimes blush I wish I could go back and do it all again. I would enjoy and appreciate it so much more. You don't realise how quickly it goes. You never get it back and I can't speak for anyone else, but I wish I'd just enjoyed it all rather than stressing about it.

BackforGood Mon 06-May-13 17:01:39

It depends on 3 things, IME
i) if it's just you - if partner isn't around, or working away it's clearly a different experience from if they are
ii) what your resilience / personality / outlook on life is - some people can't cope with their baby crying for the minutes or even seconds or so it takes to have a wee / scoff down a hot meal / have a shower, wheras other can. It's difficult to know which camp you'll fall into until you are there though!
iii) The personality of the child. My dc1 was 10x as "demanding" as dc2 and dc3 put together. Some people are lucky enough to get babies that are just far more laid back than other peoples. They usually put it down to their marvelous parenting, but luck has a huge amount to do with it.

Wishiwasanheiress Mon 06-May-13 17:03:23

It's true. It's as hard as it is blooming lovely. smile

themaltesecat Mon 06-May-13 17:09:59

It's hard yakka. Don't have one if you don't really, really want one.

JollyOrangeGiant Mon 06-May-13 17:11:26

I gave up my sport when pregnant with DS. I have no desire to go back as I enjoy spending time with DS much more than I ever enjoyed my sport.

The eating/peeing in peace thing.... It very much depends on the baby. Some babies will happily let you wander off. Others will cry when you leave their sight.

Mine always got upset when I thought about food. Which was good, as I never got a chance to make it so it never got thrown in the bin uneaten grin

In my limited experience, the stage of being able to do nothing doesn't last long. 6 months or so is not too bad. And I'm not a baby person. My toddler is wonderful. Babies are boring and all-consuming.

acceptableinthe80s Mon 06-May-13 17:19:30

Honestly Op, If any of us really thought through the downsides of having children, the human race would die out! I wouldn't count on older children being easier, in fact the opposite seems to be true. Babies just need food, sleep and cuddles (day and night mind). 4 year olds need a million questions a day answered and lots of exercise, god knows what teens need, i'm not there yet but you get the picture. Don't over think it would be my advice.

hackmum Mon 06-May-13 17:31:28

Well, mileage may vary. Couldn't leave my baby for a second, and yes, I was followed to the loo, and yes, it did nearly drive me nuts. But she's a very easy teenager.

mrsjay Mon 06-May-13 17:37:12

mine never came to the loo with me I managed to poo and pee in peace <shrug> my dds are 20 and 15 though maybe we did things differently in the dark ages grin

mrsjay Mon 06-May-13 17:37:52

didnt have a hot cuppa for years thoug managed to enjoy lukewarm coffee grin

HollyBerryBush Mon 06-May-13 17:38:48

I also think coping mechanisms depend upon what sort of person you are in yourself.

If you are a bit scatty, then you are going to either struggle because you cant prioritise, or you will be a go-with-the-flow sort that nothing rattles.

If you are organised your life will either run like clockwork, or have a melt down because your little military operation just isn't running to schedule

So what I'm saying is: somewhere in the middle is where most parents are. You stagger from day to day, hoping you are doing the right thing.

mrsjay Mon 06-May-13 17:42:15

you are right holly we all just muddle along the best we can even with reading every baby book published babies dont read them do they

twilight3 Mon 06-May-13 17:42:41

I remember almost 20 years ago now, when I was a new parent with one 16-month-old and hugely pregnant, I longed for a toilet trip in peace... So as I sat on the toilet I said to my chattering young daughter "can you please give mummy some privacy"?She thought for a bit, then opened the bathroom cupboard, had a good look and announced "where's pivacy mummy? can't see pivacy" grin grin

AnnoyingOrange Mon 06-May-13 17:46:28

I never took mine to the loo. I used a cot or playpen to keep them safe

I did do the one handed eating at times, as ds1 seemed to breast feed constantly

Ruebarb Mon 06-May-13 17:55:24

I was also a mum over 25 years ago- had 2 children just over a year apart. I can never remember eating a meal with a baby on my lap nor either of them following me around to the loo etc. Had a bouncy chair where baby sat while we ate a meal if he or she was not asleep in the carrycot. Used to feed and change baby in space of about an hour and then he or she would be laid in the carrycot to sleep for the next 2 to 3 hours until 6 months then midday nap and in bed by 6 pm by age of 10 months/wake up at 8-9 next morning. Expectations and practice have changed so much over the years.

Nagoo Mon 06-May-13 17:58:14

I still follow my mum in the toilet. I am 33 grin

I did hold mine on occasion.

Babies are so eeeeeeasy! put in cot, on playmat, swing, daddy/grannys arms - go pee, shower, do hair/face, sort pram, cook tea most of which is done quickly or with wee poke a nose ins.

toddlers on the other hand - want to watch you pee, wipe your jina, see you in the shower, brush your hair, pet your face, jump out of the pram ninja style, help you cook i.e go in the fridge and eat 40 grapes, give you every sharp knife out of the drawer you thought they couldn't get into, climb the units, eat washing powder and febreze from the cupboard with no freaking handle on it all whilst feeling up the oven and trying to climb up your leg.

Even better when you shut them out the kitchen tho... rattle the gate, climb furniture, beat up older kids, mess up washing, pull wires.... not to mention mine does not sleep barely nsps and is up sll night.. ds is 18 months. I'm due dd2 in august wtaf am i thinking confused

Sokmonsta Mon 06-May-13 18:07:15

Depends on the children. Dd1 and Ds1 were quite happy to play when little while I went to the toilet. Dts haven't let me go on my own since they learnt to crawl. I swear they actually race me as soon as they realise I'm walking that way! However, stairgates are your friend. One on the lounge door stops them leaving the giant playpen

Springforward Mon 06-May-13 18:14:07

In our house a luxury pee on your own is highly prized.

Jayne266 Mon 06-May-13 18:14:55

Happens to me some days are better than others. But it's even worse when they are poorly. I remember once going to the toilet and pulling my pants down on the way up the stairs to save time. It gets better when they are older for me mostly because I can use the bouncer or travel cot and I know he's safe.
The hardest was holding him all night so he could sleep when he was ill it felt like torture. Wouldn't change it for the world though.

twilight3 Mon 06-May-13 18:16:41

Ruebarb are you saying that your babies would sleep for 14 hours????? None of my four have ever done that (though my second lot came to me when they were almost 2 and 3 so I don't know what they were like as babies).
Don't say that in public, you can make many sleep deprived parents envious grin

Ruebarb Mon 06-May-13 18:21:30

Twilight3 - honest my memory is not playing tricks - both slept through the night from 10-11 pm to 8-9 am by age of 7 and 10 weeks and by 10 months I was putting them to bed by 6 pm and I would be up, dressed and had breakfast by the time they woke up for the day at around 8-9 am. I know I was fortunate on that one and not taking any credit for it but also when they were little they always slept after feeds in the carrycot which freed me to do housework, cook etc!

twilight3 Mon 06-May-13 18:28:00

my dd1 would sleep through the night at 6 weeks old, and that was 11-7, by 1 year old she would do 7pm-6 am, but 11 consecutive hours is the most I have ever gotten out of any of my children. DS1 didn't sleep through until he was 5 (Years Old that is). My little ones are now five and 6.5 and do about 9-10 hours, I think that's normal for their age.

I think though, like others have said, babies CAN be easy if you put them somewhere safe. It's toddlers that pose more of an issue

It does last fr eternity, dd is nineteen and sometimes if in mid chat flow she'll follow me to the bathroom and stand outside still trying to chat grin

twilight3 Mon 06-May-13 19:01:01

at least she stands outside dreams, that's progress...

They are all so different. My dd, now 14 when she was four months + used to sleep from 7pm to 9am, 14 hours & she used to have a 2 hour nap, so in a 24 hour was only up 8 hours. She was an absolute gem yet now at 14 sleeps & sleeps & it drives me MA I wish she'd get up! My 3.5 year old ds never more than 11, he goes k bed at 7 & always up at 6 & so full of beans! I need them to meet half way in the morning x

Iggi101 Mon 06-May-13 19:11:14

I'm going back to work next week after ML and the only thing I'm looking forward to is solitary loo breaks. (Heaven help my colleagues if they dare try to chat to me in there!)
Oh, and finishing a cup of coffee too.
But these are such minor irritations compared to the happiness they bring overall. I think mothers just don't talk so much about that because it sounds so soppy.

Bunbaker Mon 06-May-13 19:20:44

It isn't necessarily true. I tend to bath or shower in the evening so when DD was a baby I used to wait until she was asleep. I had a playpen and used to put DD in it from about 6 months so she was used to it. I never had a problem going to the bathroom as and when I needed to. We didn't have a downstairs bathroom and had stairgates so I didn't have DD banging on the door and making a fuss. She never made a fuss if I left the room anyway so it was never a problem for me.

I admit that I found meal times a trial though.

mrsjay Mon 06-May-13 19:30:27

I used to bath at night or when they were asleep I can hardly remember not being able too although they were dragged about the house in a bouncy chair

MorrisZapp Mon 06-May-13 19:37:48

It is so, so, fucking hard. Leaving the house is so much hassle sometimes it's easier not to bother. I work full time, it's lovely and peaceful. Weekends make me so tired I forget the word for cheese.

If you're ambivalent, don't do it.

Doingakatereddy Mon 06-May-13 19:39:00

I have a 3 year old and a 5 week old. This sounds like my life.

I've had one hour alone in 6 weeks and last went shopping by myself in December.

If I had a chance to do it all again, I'd run for the fucking hills.

I'm only just joking

I'm petrified of having a 21 month old and a newborn especially with ds not listening to a word i say sad i'm lucky in the sense that dp will have a kid or two whilst i go out but i doubt either of us would enjoy being hone with all 3 of them alone.. although thinking, it'd prob be easier in the house than out 1 doing chores, 1in the cot, 1 in the room with the stair gate closed grin

BlackMaryJanes Mon 06-May-13 20:14:26

I don't know anyone of my age who a glued on baby. Seems to be a new phenomenon

Did you breastfeed?

thecatfromjapan Mon 06-May-13 20:29:42

I'm 47. I was a Penelope Leach mother, as were all my (London, liberal) friends. Don't think HollyBerryBush's perspective/parenting style is down to age alone.

However, back to OP. I think there's only one thing to do with posts like these. I remember Zoe Williams writing an article prior to having her first baby that was an awful lot like this. She roared with laughter (well, not quite roared - that makes her sound like India Knight, perhaps she did a Guardian-style, passive aggressive smirk) at parent who complained about being tired, and were enormously dull: going on about their children all the time. The implication, of course, was that she would do it very differently. It was all a matter of choice, intelligence, ambition, determination, and style.

So, I think the way to respond is to say: Of course not, dear. No-one really eats with one hand, ever; no-one finds it hard to go to the loo alone, ever; babies sleep all the time; you can do brain surgery while the babe is strapped to you back; actually, there is a magic button that just makes them disappear when they are inconvenient; and you will lose wait two hours after giving birth - if you put any on at all. Just look at celebrity births - that's the real deal. All the rest is just propaganda by stupid women who would be moaners and slackers anyway.

That sort of answer is win-win. It doesn't "put anyone off" having a baby; people will believe it, because they want to (and secretly think it anyway).

ExRatty Mon 06-May-13 20:30:55

i dunno i had 3 in 3 yrs. It has been a privacy free time except when I have the bliss of work

thecatfromjapan Mon 06-May-13 20:31:16

"lose weight" not "lose wait". I have no idea at all how that happened. I have no auto-correct as an excuse.

twilight3 Mon 06-May-13 20:34:29

blackMary I don't think it's exclusively a BFing thing, some babies simply won't be put down.
My first two were two decades ago (so not "new" parenting age), one had to be carried all day long but would sleep through the night, the other was quite happy to play on the floor/cot in the day but kept us both up all night. It just happens.

The suggestion that "if your baby needs to be held 24/7 it means that you're doing something wrong/spoiling them/teaching them wrong" feels to me very much like competitive parenting... Not interested

cory Mon 06-May-13 21:11:02

Agree that it's more a personality thing (yours and the baby's) than a generational thing. Also that one's memories tend to become smoothed over with the passing of time. What my mother remembers of her perfectly laidback and relaxed parenting is not exactly what my brothers and I remember. My SIL's ideas of what small children could be expected to be like changed noticeably in the 10 years between the birth of her dc and the birth of mine. And as my own dc approach adulthood I have noticed an increasing tendency in myself to remember the bits that worked and forget the bits that didn't. Then again, seeing that I have actually succeeded in bringing up two proper living children, perhaps I'm not that far wrong? It all came out in the wash. grin

iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii Mon 06-May-13 21:14:17

If it wasn't worth doing there would be lots more DC's out there with no siblings.

plantsitter Mon 06-May-13 21:18:33

It's very easy to forget exactly what you did in the first weeks/months/years as it's such a blur. I think those older mothers who reckon they never did any of that stuff have forgotten. Much like my mother who 5 years ago claimed I would have plenty of time to learn to sew when I had my new baby, but now admits it all came rushing back when she looked after her for a few hours.

Piemother Mon 06-May-13 21:43:16

Not true for me. I manage to use the loo and shower. Dd1 had regular naps so I showred then. Dd2 so she sits in her bouncer in the bathroom.

Exh on the other hand couldn't allow me to do either in peace!

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHopeful Mon 06-May-13 22:07:25

Well for me it's all true.

Had a very very hungry baby so did the one handed eating thing all the time. Showers weren't great as she would cry as soon as I put her down so had to have a v quick shower with her screaming in her Moses basket (or on the floor) by the shower.

Going for a pee, same as the shower really she would scream as soon as I put her down, she still follows me into the toilet now (2 year old).

At 3 weeks old she started to cry to be put down but it wasn't much help because as soon as I ran off to pee she would scream for me to come and watch her.

Dh and I still sit in restaurants now staring with amazement at a couple whose 2-3 month old is happily lying in its car seat burbling away. envy

queenofthepirates Mon 06-May-13 22:28:30

yes but my DD follows everyone to the loo then stands there asking if they are having a wee wee or a poo poo (she's 2yo btw). I use that 60 seconds of peace whilst someone else is occupying her to have a mini nap, write a letter, eat something without her trying to eat it too.... the list goes on.

It's knackering but the good bits far outweigh the bad.

MrsDeVere Mon 06-May-13 22:34:05

How hilarious
I have 5dcs
The only one that wouldn't be put down or allow me to go to the toilet alone was DS2.
The adopted, ready made one.

Neglect and trauma will do that I suppose hmm

twilight3 Mon 06-May-13 23:28:55

LOL, this made me laugh MrsDeVere, it's the other way round for me. My adopted, ready made children never followed me to the toilet/shower etc, it was my bio children that wouldn't give me a moment's peace...

Kewcumber Mon 06-May-13 23:36:17

Bit puzzled that OP thinks adoption precludes you from having velcro child. In my experience nothing clings as tighly as an anxious adopted child.

bicyclebuiltforfour Mon 06-May-13 23:36:23

I would rather have a newborn than a toddler anyday: much less work!

If a baby cries, give it a boob. Toddlers are a lot more complicated grin

How old you gonna go with this ready made one?

Because 7 year old ds in his wisdom decided to karate kick open the bathroom door to fimd me stood in all my glory with veet plastered all over my bits...

WafflyVersatile Tue 07-May-13 00:06:21

I have heard from several sources that you do have to alter your lifestyle just a smidgen around your children.

Unless you're a man obviously. then you just get more lads nights out down the pub again instead of having to take your bird out to dinner.

WafflyVersatile Tue 07-May-13 00:08:30

my 5 year old niece has taken to slipping notes and drawings through the door when I'm on the loo. And old flatmate of mine used to do the same at 30. hmm

My friend's cat likes to sit on my knee when I'm on the loo.

differentnameforthis Tue 07-May-13 00:23:58

I rarely ate one handed..just timed feeds for before my meals.

LollyLaDrumstick Tue 07-May-13 00:47:44

I made it quite clear in a previous post that the thread title was not a statement on adopted children, but a lighthearted joke about skipping the baby years. Please stop trying to find offense where none exists.

GreenEggsAndNichts Tue 07-May-13 00:51:15

OP mine didn't cry when I left the room. In fact, the only thing which was a bit true was the holding whilst eating thing- when they're very small, someone does end up holding the baby. It's not forever; once they can sit unassisted they can be put in a chair.

I'm only now experiencing bathroom visits, and DS is 4. He just plows on with whatever conversation he is having with himself which somehow involves me, and follows me into the loo, or comes and finds me there. I assume this will pass. smile

Anyway, all of that is a piece of piss compared with the sleep deprivation in the newborn years. Priorities change, but need for sleep does not!

Morloth Tue 07-May-13 03:53:15

Shrug, I didn't find it that hard.

I mostly do 'attachment parenting', as in I carry in a sling and breastfeed etc.

But sometimes I went to the toilet/had a shower and they cried.

Mostly their needs came first but sometimes mine did.

People worry too much.

MrsDeVere Tue 07-May-13 07:47:51

Ah Lolly so sorry to impinge on your harmless fun.

How rude of us

Norty, norty adoptive parents.

amazingface Tue 07-May-13 08:01:34

All true for me too, OP! Tbh if you breastfeed there will probably be at least a little of the one-handed eating. It's fine as long as you stick to sandwiches/slices of quiche/pizza as opposed to, erm, hot soup. Crumbs on babies' heads are just fine. And a sling is your very, very best friend.

It doesn't last long, it really doesn't. I came to parenting with no intention of ever being an attachment parent but my DD had other ideas. Sometimes it's just like that. For showers, I put her in a bouncy chair in the bathroom first thing every morning after she was fed, changed, and relatively content. There was a small window of opportunity and I took it.

The loo thing - I have a downstairs loo so I tend to nip in really quickly to have my wees. DD (15 months) does tend to knock on the door and call 'Hiya!'but I'm glad I can keep half an eye on her.

Anyway, if you're a 90s baby I don't think you should worry about this for a few years yet smile

aufaniae Tue 07-May-13 08:08:44

" I am a 90s baby and fitted into my parents life ... in my pushchair at the pub with their friends- "

Now this is an advantage of the baby years.

We used to take DS to the pub when he was portable a baby. But then he learnt to walk. And charge about causing mayhem. End of nice Sunday lunches in pubs for quite some time. Excitable toddlers and pubs are not the best combination IME!

Now he's a bit older we occasionally go to family pubs which have space for DCs to run around outside - or even playgrounds. Some lovely pubs family round here (Sussex).

aufaniae Tue 07-May-13 08:09:13

*family pubs not pubs family!

MrsFlorrick Tue 07-May-13 08:11:17

All true. If you don't want to eat with two hands and pee alone then you either need lots of helpful relatives on hand close by or a DH who works from home.

The one handed meals and not peering alone are just the tip of the iceberg. Much worse awaits you.....

neontetra Tue 07-May-13 08:14:39

Not true for me. Dd has a playpen which she (usually) likes to go in for a while as long as we rotate the toy selection fairly often. This frees us to cook, shower, etc etc. In the early days, they sleep loads, so you can do stuff then. Mind you, I'm pretty relaxed about housework - if I cared more it might have been harder. And dd is a very laid back baby, so we're lucky there.

2rebecca Tue 07-May-13 08:23:09

I used to put mine in the travel cot when toddlers and I wanted a shower or toilet. Baby just got laid on changing mat in bathroom or laid down in cot/ moses basket. Sometimes we would eta and just have a baby cry.
I've never had older kids wander in whilst I'm in the bathroom, I like my privacy.
I was prepared to accept short bouts of crying in return for keeping my cleanliness, health and sanity.

Ragwort Tue 07-May-13 08:27:47

I agree with the playpen idea (although I think this is frowned upon on Mumsnet grin).

I also think there is a parallel life on mumsnet that you don't see in the real world, I have never been accompanied to the toilet, I always showered/drank hot drinks/ate my meals in peace/had my evenings to myself ....... but like a few others have said, from the day we got home from hospital we follwed a GF strict routine, (again, not poplular on MN).

And no, I didn't have any family within 200 miles and DH frequently worked away from home.

I am happy to acknowledge that I had a very 'easy' baby who adapted to the 'routines' immediately, I genuinely don't know if it was because I was strict, or because he was just the sort of child who liked a routine - how can you know confused - all I can say is that from my (very limited) view of how friends deal with non-sleeping or similar behaviour which the parents perceived as difficult, the parents were just not consistent in setting routines or boundaries.

MrsHuxtable Tue 07-May-13 08:49:13

Eating a one-handed meal? Rarely, because I mostly had DH at home and if DD didn't want to stay in her bouncy chair, we'd take turns. This only lasted a couple of months I think.

Hot drinks? I always found time for a hot drink when DD was asleep.

Shower? Again, either did it when DH was at home or if he wasn't put her in the bouncy and do it when she was asleep. I hated doing that though because having the shower on meant I couldn't hear her scream when she woke up. One time, the battery in the vibrating bouncy chair died while I showered, DD had woken up and had been screaming for god knows how long and was in a frenzy. It was horrible.

Toilet? Not so much a problem when tiny, for now that she's 15 months because I can't leave her anywhere without her climbing on stuff and throwing herself off. So I take her in with me. No big deal. Like all the other things I assume it's a phase that'll pass.

Just consider carefully, OP, if you really want kids. what you are mentioning are the small bits. They're over in a flash. There are other bigger sacrifices you make as a parent. And some people are in absolute denial about that when planning children. My cousin is one of them. t's both hilarious and heart-breaking to watch at the same time. Example: Insisting on 4-hour bottle routine even though baby is crying from hunger inbetween. Solution: Stick baby in a cot in the far away room so the crying isn't as loud.

I'm not saying you'd be like that but my cousin was so ill prepared for how much she's have to give, she now can't cope. Might have been different with a different baby though. Only you don't know what you get before it's too late.

And nursery at 4 weeks? Really? sad

kotinka Tue 07-May-13 10:48:23

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

everlong Tue 07-May-13 11:01:48

Don't have one then OP. Probably best for the poor kid tbh.

kotinka Tue 07-May-13 11:07:34

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DaisyFlower123 Tue 07-May-13 11:09:38

I have definitely had all of these at one stage or another! But still wouldn't change any of it for a minute and preparing to go again with DC2 due in a few weeks.

I can honestly say that being a parent has brought on some of the lowest, most tired and feeling down moments of my life, and it is those moments I probably come on here and rant - so the perception given is flawed because for every 1 of them, there has been 100s of the most wonderful, cherished moments! I still remember the first time DS smiled at me, the first time he held his arms up for a cuddle, when he snuggles in for comfort and sleep, the first time he just looked up and I love you mummy - absolute and irreplaceable magic!!!

Purplebananas Tue 07-May-13 11:10:02

It's not true in my case I have DTS that are 20 months old. Yes to the poster that said this is what bouncy chairs, playpens and cots were invented for. I go to the toilet on my own and when I go for a shower I out them in the playpen or do it when they they are napping or in bed fr the night. I also eat 2 handed as they are in highchairs having their own lunch. Do BLW and you won't have the issue of having to shovel spoonfuls of puree into them with one hand.

everlong Tue 07-May-13 11:11:06

I think the title is pretty off myself tbh.

Nobody is forced into having a baby.

kotinka Tue 07-May-13 11:13:23

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

everlong Tue 07-May-13 11:15:07

Who made you the sodding boss?

I said what I thought.

kotinka Tue 07-May-13 11:24:42

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AngelsWithSilverWings Tue 07-May-13 11:32:03

I used to have to time having a shower to coincide with my "ready made" DS's favourite Cbeebes show.

I would lock him in his baby prison in front of the TV knowing that he would be transfixed for the next 10 mins.

My DCs are 7 and 4 now and I'm still not allowed to have a bath or go to the loo on my own!

JesusInTheCabbageVan Tue 07-May-13 11:32:52

everlong Come off it! There are plenty of crap parents out there (and on here) and plenty who I'd look at and think they shouldn't be having kids. Nothing in Lolly's post makes me feel sorry for her hypothetical future offspring.

In fact I felt exactly the same when I was making my mind up - I'd picture myself with a tiny stranger trashing my house, sleep-deprived, never a free moment, and think: where are the rewards in this? What if I don't love them or even like them? I'm 100% confident nobody goes into it knowing exactly what that love feels like - how can you possibly?

At any rate, IME it feels exactly like the first time you fell deeply, obsessively in love with someone - like all your teenage crushes rolled into one. That's the pay-off grin For all I know, adoption's the same though.

everlong Tue 07-May-13 11:33:13

Ok I'm sorry. It was abrupt <holds hands up> grin

kotinka Tue 07-May-13 11:39:39

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Kewcumber Tue 07-May-13 11:39:56

Deciding that your own thread title isn't offensive doesn't mean some people won't find it offensiveconfused It doesn't work like that.

Those of us who missed the baby years of our children have heard this hilarious joke repeatedly. I think we've actually been remarkably restrained.

busygirl Tue 07-May-13 11:47:29

Its true to some extent eg:sometime!I think a big proportion of people like to play martyr oh,how HARD is it having babies etc etc.drives me mad!if it was that hard why do they go on to have 2-3 kids?and keep complaining?OP you'll be fine,don't expect ur life to be excatly the same,thats all

HystericalParoxysm Tue 07-May-13 11:47:59

My children are a mixture of birth children and adopted children. Adopted children can be a whole different ball game - certainly not easier. Going to the toilet by yourself can actually be harder with a child with attachment disorder. I think your post title could have been more tactful. But yes, all children are hard work and parenting is a thankless task but IMO it's more than worth it.

JesusInTheCabbageVan Tue 07-May-13 11:49:00

everlong no worries. I think a lot of us are in a bit of an abrupt mood after the BH weekend. It's like Friday night times 10. grin

everlong Tue 07-May-13 11:50:07

I had 5 boys but lost the eldest to suicide 4 years ago. Probably the reason I went off on one tbh. I just feel a bit sensitive at the minute.

I know now after reading the thread that the OP was being tongue in cheek but after reading the title I felt a bit offended. Not sure why.

Also for anyone who has adopted their child it might hurt a little?

everlong Tue 07-May-13 11:51:41

Thanks Jesus x

LtEveDallas Tue 07-May-13 11:53:09

Just because OP didn't mean to be offensive doesn't mean that people won't be offended.

The correct response by the OP shouldn't have been "stop trying to find offense where none exists" it should have been "I'm sorry, I didn't realise that what I said could be offensive, I apologise"

MoominsYonisAreScary Tue 07-May-13 11:53:27

busy ds1,2&3 (exactly 8 years between each) were a breeze compared to having the non stop feeder who is ds4 and who was born less than 2 years after ds3 grin

JesusInTheCabbageVan Tue 07-May-13 11:58:17

Kewcumber good point. Can I do a cheeky link to your thread in Chat, which I've only just seen, here? <Got something in my eye too> The way he looks at you says it all - he's beautiful.

Kewcumber Tue 07-May-13 11:59:17

thank you Eve thanks kinda what I meant.

rambososcar Tue 07-May-13 11:59:46

" If you don't want to eat with two hands and pee alone then you either need lots of helpful relatives on hand close by or a DH who works from home."

hmm

Rubbish! Utter, utter rubbish!

All you need is a travel cot, a bouncy chair and a different attitude to MrsFlorrick's. No-one ever held the baby or toddler in my house while I went for a pee or ate with two hands because there was no-one to hand the baby to! I had a choice - either have no privacy, freedom to move from one room to another, hot meals or drinks or to accept that I needed to do these things and while the baby was in a bouncy chair and toddler in a travel cot they were safe, and if they cried, they cried.

I'm not saying that MrsFlorrick's way of doing it is wrong and mine is right but that mine was right for me and that you don't need lots of helpful relatives nor do you need a husband at all to be able to go for a piss unsupervised!

JesusInTheCabbageVan Tue 07-May-13 12:00:01

everlong I'm so sorry.

kotinka Tue 07-May-13 12:02:15

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

everlong Tue 07-May-13 12:04:29

It's ok guys. You aren't to know.

It's my own fault I should just stay away from threads that might upset me.

kotinka Tue 07-May-13 12:05:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

kotinka Tue 07-May-13 12:07:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

rambososcar Tue 07-May-13 12:08:37

Sorry everlong, I took so long to read the post I quoted with annoyance, re-find it, quote it and remark on it that I missed your posts. Please forgive me, it's slow typing skills rather than insensitivity.

I feel for you.

everlong Tue 07-May-13 12:08:53

You would do. It just takes over really, you want to protect them and not have any further hurt.

everlong Tue 07-May-13 12:09:53

Hey don't worry Rambo x

kotinka Tue 07-May-13 12:19:11

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LadyBigtoes Tue 07-May-13 12:25:19

OK the thread title could cause offence but I do think it wasn't meant that way, and the op isn't a parent and perhaps isn't familiar with some things that we tend to tread carefully about.

I actually think it raises a very important issue - having small children, especially more than one, is - or can be - incredibly difficult or stressful, depending on a number of factors: temperament of your kids, your own temperament, and your support network. I'm lucky to have a DP who does his share - many you read about on here don't. But I have no family I can rely on and we have never been away on our own as a couple since having DC.

Plus, I am someone who needs time a lone, and likes to get things done. Though I adore my children I have really struggled through the preschool years. It is things like never just being able to go off alone and do something, or just being able to make a snap decision and carry it out, and being constantly needed, physically clung to and talked to. Lovely in many ways, but when you don't get a break, it can sometimes make you feel desperate. And there is the matter of never being able to relax or think to yourself for 2 seconds because someone is always about to fling themselves down a flight of stairs, eat a lego brick, tear their sibling's hair out etc etc.

I don't think it's just random that many new mothers get depressed - as well as the hormonal side, you suffer a lot when your "self" and me-time are taken away. Even when you love your kids, do loads with them, try to be a kind and attentive parent and so on.

Now my oldest is 7 I can see that an older child who has a bit of independence and common sense is so much easier for me. Everyone is different and some throw themselves into the baby and toddler stage, but I have really found it hard.

I think if you have supportive, trustworthy grandparents or aunties etc. on hand, and sometimes get a rest, that makes things much easier though.

I'm sorry for your loss everlong.

kotinka Tue 07-May-13 13:26:34

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OhHullitsOnlyMeYoni Tue 07-May-13 13:29:42

Yes it is true, mostly. You don't begrudge it really/most of the time...
Adoption is a great idea though and if you have any worries on being pregnant then go for it! I was thinking of adopting too, and may still in the future. So many kids in need of a loving home out there smile

Dahlen Tue 07-May-13 13:34:35

A lot depends on the baby and a lot depends on the parent. Most of the former is determined by sheer damn luck rather than any parenting style.

Mine were quite laid back and I never had problems with a shower or toilet until they were toddling about and following me everywhere.

However, in my perfect world, all babies would come out and reach the age of 4 in about 4 weeks rather than 4 years. IME it's only then that you really start to get your life back. wink

everlong Tue 07-May-13 13:52:08

Yes I'm fine kotinka thank you x

Scruffey Tue 07-May-13 14:04:15

It depends on the baby. Ds wanted to be on me or breast feeding permanently. Even aged 7 years old I think he would happily sleep on top of me like a newborn baby (I don't let him!). My dd was happy to feed and then play when she was a baby, she has a cuddle and goes to bed etc. you can never tell.

Eating one handed is fine - just eat everything with a spoon! I used to get dh to cut my food up before we started eating and then eat it with a spoon grin no big deal!

Taffybird Tue 07-May-13 14:21:11

All of those things sounded very familiar to me, and while it's happening it is hard to deal with but it isn't forever. When you have kids the upheaval is immense and your life becomes unrecognisable down to the last detail. Think about times in your life when you've had to deal with a big change - like moving house or ending a relationship. If you found that stressful then having a child will make you feel the same way but multiplied by about a thousand! But like any challenge, finding your way through it and overcoming the difficult parts is immensely satisfying and the rewards are incomparable. Becoming a parent definitely knocks you for six but when you get yourself back on your feet you find qualities in yourself that you never knew you had and become a better person for the experience. Eating a few cold dinners with one hand and letting a baby in a bouncy chair gurgle at you while you do a wee is quite a small price to pay for that.

childof79 Tue 07-May-13 14:47:48

It is hard work having children, particularly if a child does cry a lot and particularly when they are little.

However, I do think some people make a bit of a fuss about it. These are the types of parent who could not possibly do any kind of work voluntary or otherwise because their DCs are all consuming (even though they are at school).

LollyLaDrumstick Tue 07-May-13 16:22:25

I have apologised for the thread title further up the thread, I'm not going to be throwing out personal apologies for everyone who finds it questionable confused

Some brilliant replies though, thanks everyone!

And to the person who made a sad face about my being in nursery at 4 weeks- I can't bloody remember it, I love my mum, have none of this 'attachment disorder' and am a perfectly adjusted human being.

Oh, and bills needed to paid or we wouldn't have had any lights on. I think some people forget sometimes that many families aren't in the position to have the luxury of a SAHM and days spent at soft play an singing French counting songs.

MrsHoarder Tue 07-May-13 16:33:25

Lolly: at 4 weeks, poor your DM having to go back to work whilst probably still bleeding, you're right, its less problematic for you. Fortunately maternity leave is a bit more generous now, so having a few months off to get baby settled is possible (and necessary now most nurseries only take from 3 months).

As for you "apology", I scanned back up the thread to be sure, then pulled a favourite article of mine from the web. You don't get to choose what other groups find offensive, and telling a minority group (like adopters) that it isn't offensive doesn't constitute an apology.

everlong Tue 07-May-13 16:38:55

Somehow OP you not throwing out personal apologies to those who found your title offensive is no great surprise to me wink

LtEveDallas Tue 07-May-13 16:49:14

Lolly, an apology tends to contain the words "I apologise" or "I'm sorry". You don't seem to have managed that at all? I apologise if that is not the case and I have missed it.

Kewcumber Tue 07-May-13 16:54:30

which one of your small handful of posts is meant to be an apology?!

I don't actually expect an apology because I think you're only sorry that your witty post got (very slightly) derailed and I suspect you think those who did take offence are being over sensitive.

In fact crass use of adoption as a "light hearted" comic device on the internet are a great deal less offensive than being bombarded by other mothers over a not so pleasant lunch with reasons why adoption is sooooo much easier than giving birth.

I publically object to this kind of glibness on the internet in the hope that it might prevent someone sharing their opinion with someone in real life.

AngelsWithSilverWings Tue 07-May-13 18:22:35

As an adoptive parent the thread title caused me mild irritation rather than offence but now I see that the OP is starting on SAHMs now too.

How lazy must I be? A SAHM to two really easy school age ready made children!

I do do one afternoon a week voluntary work so I hope I can be forgiven.

LollyLaDrumstick Tue 07-May-13 18:44:10

It seems that I didn't use that exact phasing, but a statement that I in no way see adopting as the easy option and am not making a statement on adoption,*Lt*- (I love that grin) So to make amends to all offended a very sincere apology... X

LollyLaDrumstick Tue 07-May-13 18:44:47

AngelsWithSilverWings? Erm, how? I'm really confused.

kotinka Tue 07-May-13 18:45:46

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bigbuttons Tue 07-May-13 18:51:02

God, it ever bothered me at all. I have clear memories of not just sharing the bathroom but having heads trying to get behind me and peer into the toilet bowl to see what was going on.
I must admit that pre dc's the very idea shocked me, but once it's happening with your own it's no biggie.

Wuldric Tue 07-May-13 18:52:53

There is a parental delusion, which goes like this:-

1. Everyone makes such a fuss about having children - it can't be THAT difficult or life changing.
2. It'll be easier when they're sleeping through the night
3. It'll be easier when they can walk
4. It'll be easier when they are out of nappies
5. It'll be easier when they are at school
6. It'll be easier when they can get around by themselves
7. It'll be easier when they motivate themselves to do their homework
8. It'll be easier when they develop some life skills
9. It'll be easier when they get through their exams
10. It'll be easier when they get over falling in love with unsuitable people
11. It'll be easier when they leave home

I've come to the conclusion now that it never gets any easier. But it is hugely rewarding if you fancy giving it a go.

LollyLaDrumstick Tue 07-May-13 18:53:25

If my 'poor kid' is ever born to an adoption bashing SAHM bashing, non-maternal and insensitive wanker like me- I know not to even discuss parenting styles on MN, as babies are very stressful (but lovely! smile) the last thing I want to do is get dragged into the SAH/W, attachment/non attachment, ect. bunfights, as these must only add to the stress ;)

I'm flouncing off to lurk on chat and s&b, but I honestly do want everyone who has been sincerely hurt that I am sorry for blunt comments and things that may have seemed off. This thread has been brilliant and helpful to me, and my friend who is 32 weeks and scanned it through too! smile

hazeyjane Tue 07-May-13 18:54:01

many families aren't in the position to have the luxury of a SAHM and days spent at soft play an singing French counting songs.

I think it was this comment that implies you don't think much of SAHM's.

LollyLaDrumstick Tue 07-May-13 19:01:34

How on earth did you come to that conclusion? SAHMs are excellent. My mum would have loved to have been one, and I'd love for either my DP or I to stay at home with my 'poor kid'.

That comment about french counting songs was in response to a hmm about me being in nursery at 4 weeks. As that poster poster said, my mum had to go back to work 'still bleeding', as she was a temp with no maternity rights and my dad flounced off when he realised that babies cry in the night sad

I just didn't want my DM to be thought of as someone who couldn't wait to get back to work. She wanted to take me to fucking soft play and sing frere jacques- but that's not how life panned out.

GreenEggsAndNichts Tue 07-May-13 19:02:28

I didn't make the sad face but if I had, it would have been for your mum, not for you, obviously. 4 weeks is tiny, but you'll see that if you have one.

My mum had to be back at work after 2 weeks. Fortunately she and my father worked alternate shifts so I didn't need to go to nursery that quickly. Also I believe they shared childcare duties with a family friend who had a son about my age.

The SAHM thing, well, you made such a casually dismissive comment regarding the choice some people here have had to make, it really was quite rude. Many people end up in that situation out of necessity rather than overwhelming desire to mediate soft play disputes and sing French counting songs hmm.

AngelsWithSilverWings Tue 07-May-13 19:02:34

Yes Hazey that was the comment that did it for me!

GreenEggsAndNichts Tue 07-May-13 19:02:48

nvm, cross-posted. smile

JesusInTheCabbageVan Tue 07-May-13 19:09:24

Wuldric I'm still on 2. Things.... things do get easier when they sleep through, right? <Pleading face>

thecatfromjapan Tue 07-May-13 19:11:04

Hello Hazey smile. Haven't seen you for far, far too long!

Are you around on mn these days? Where? Are you on Facebook?

I think I should p.m. you these questions.

And <squeeze> to Everlong.

You know, it's the smuggery and crypto-mother-despising I find so very un-delightful in the opening post. Personally, I think that is so endemic in our culture it is quite possible that the original poster is unaware of it.

thecatfromjapan Tue 07-May-13 19:13:01

Actually, I've re-read the OP. It really is amazingly dismissive of women on mn; of women who are mothers; of the discourse of mothers.

Really rather piggish.

bigbuttons Tue 07-May-13 20:34:46

It is actually an incredibly immature op

iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii Tue 07-May-13 20:59:46

Ohh lighten up guys......

I read the OP as being lighthearted

Kewcumber Tue 07-May-13 23:32:42

helpful comment iiiiii.

You thought it was light-hearted so we stuffy people must lighten up. hmm No-one is entitled to feel a bit irritated by the ridiculous title because you're not.

piratedinosaursgogogo Tue 07-May-13 23:47:24

As another adoptive parent, I did find the thread title bothered me but I don't think that any offence was intended. I agree with Kew further upthread that if reading this makes people with birth children think a little bit more about 'light-hearted ready-made baby jokes', it won't have been a bad thing.

ItsallisnowaFeegle Wed 08-May-13 00:16:29

I am living all of that shit in the OP right now, but, it's not going to last forever and I wouldn't change the stinking funk, cold meals, not being able to leave the room chaos for anything! wink

ItsallisnowaFeegle Wed 08-May-13 00:20:21

Oh shite...the whole thread's moved on. Meh! As you were.

iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii Wed 08-May-13 00:24:00

TheOP has apologised for the title, her OP was meant lightheartedly. I don't see why posters are still attacking the posts....

...and I am very familiar with adoptions wink not that it makes any difference

bigbuttons Wed 08-May-13 07:21:02

It was ill judged, as were a lot of her silly comments afterwards. Hopefully she'll know better in the future when she's actually mature enough to have a family.

LadyBigtoes Wed 08-May-13 10:26:20

OP you just come across as having a bit of a sharp tongue and sarcastic way with words. Nothing wrong with that IMO. But you may find you upset people (I've toned it down a lot myself as I can offend without meaning to). I took your SAHM/french song remarks as they were meant but I know SAHMs who would think you were getting at them.

I actually think your cynical attitude will stand you in pretty good stead as a parent. I mean that!

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