To really upset DH and insist DD does not go with him to spend a weekend with her revolting jezza kyle style grandparents?

(133 Posts)
pinksmarties13 Sat 04-May-13 00:07:43

Namechanged as I forgot my password, but:

I joined this site at xmas time asking for advice in dealing with my incredibly rude in-laws, who were making their 10 day xmas visit even more unbearable than usual. ( particular "issues," included but were not limited too: pretending to vomit up food at the dinner table if I put vegetables on their plates, continuing to light up and smoke in the house when asked not to, graphic, loud descriptions of their sex life in front of my extended family and children, constant racist outbursts and sulking when I wouldn't provide their favourite food/ fry ups etc.)

Anyway after I eventually told them to reign in their behaviour, I got into a very upsetting argument with my MIL who made some disgusting comments about my sex life and then abused both me and my 14 year old niece over facebook, ( she told my niece she hoped she died of AIDs.)

Unsurprisingly we have not spoken since the event, and until last week they refused to speak to DH either, as in the end he sided with me over them. This complete lack of contact was rather nice, HOWEVER:

MIL has recently contacted DH to inform him that FIL has slept with a much younger neighbour, (who is also a distant cousin of DH's from his mothers side.) MIL and FIL plan to stay together, but MIL is having difficulty living in such close vicinity to the "lucky lady." She has admitted to DH that to try and persuade the woman to move, ( woman is married and has two young kids,) she has been regularly throwing open bags of rubbish into her garden, shouting at her whenever she walks past, ( including when she has children with her,) and when she (MIL,) was drunk one night earlier this week she went out and pissed in her garden. ( It goes without saying I'm mortified my children are related to her.) She has also been cautioned by the police after she slapped this woman in front of witnesses.

It is against this backdrop that DH, is being asked to go down and "mediate," for the weekend, as said family have made complaints to the council and FIL is worried they will lose their home. DH feels he should go, ( probably because the thought of his homeless parents turning up on our door is terrifying,) however they want DD to come down to "see them as they can't see her now the ginger bitch (me,) won't let them in." They have no interest in my son staying as he has a different biological father.

Now whilst I normally agree with grandparent-child bonds, and DD wouldn't miss anytime off school, I really feel this is a completely inappropriate environment to take a child into, and am refusing to let her go. DH is really upset with me however, and says whilst he knows his parents are dysfunctional and rude their not child abusers and deserve a chance to spend time with their grandchildren. He does agree it's no longer appropriate for them to come to our house.

so AIBU to say it might not inconvenience me, their not child abusers but I just don't want my child exposed to this environment>

DameFanny Sat 04-May-13 00:11:05

Yanbu. I remember your other thread. Absolutely not an environment for children.

Dont send her. Move far far away the change all your names, dna and blood types

lucamom Sat 04-May-13 00:12:59

Not at all-just because you don't have to worry about child abuse doesn't mean anything goes, there are still other situations you're allowed to protect you'd children from (and this sounds completely toxic)

CloudsAndTrees Sat 04-May-13 00:13:43

Your DH is looking at it from the wrong angle. It doesn't matter whether a Grandparent does or doesn't have the right to see a grandchild. It matters that a child has the right to be protected from dysfunctional environments and dysfunctional people.

DaveMccave Sat 04-May-13 00:16:23

Yanbu, don't let her go.

Jesus I'd run for the hills

You are certainly not been unreasonable

DameFanny Sat 04-May-13 00:17:04

Yanbu. I remember your other thread. Absolutely not an environment for children.

pinksmarties13 Sat 04-May-13 00:18:39

Thanks for the support, I know it comes across as "funny," but it really isn't if you actually have to deal with them yourself. They, ( and heir wish to spend time with DD,) are just causing so many problems within my family right now. I find it embarrassing discuss with many people, my own friends get really angry at DH for his attitude when it is brought up, and my family find it to upsetting. So I've sort of taken to ranting to strangers on the internet :s

elQuintoConyo Sat 04-May-13 00:19:50

Holy shit!

Run! Run for the hills!

They sound disgusting. Perhaps agree on a middle ground for your dc and pils: the pils can see dc in the presence of dh in a neutral place (not your house and not theirs).

If that fails, cut them off. motherfuckers

Your situation has made me really bloody angry. Have some thanks

StuntGirl Sat 04-May-13 00:25:38

Not unreasonable at all, these people are not the kind of people anyone should be exposed to, let alone your children.

But your husband will have grown up in this environment and so to an extent it will be 'normal' for him so he will struggle to see your view completely.

I would NOT let your daughter go. Even if it means putting your foot down and causing a problem with your husband in the short term.

NotSoWitty Sat 04-May-13 00:26:53

yanbu they sound lovely hmm stay away far, far away!

Aargh they sound absolutely VILE. They sound (according to your post) a bad example, prejudiced, violent, bad mannered, ignorant & selfish. I thought my PILs were bad but yours take the biscuit. I'd be inclined to stay right away.
On the other hand, if it was just a normal family visit I'd say you should at least show willing, but you know very well what the purpose of the visit is, I'm sure neither not or DH want your DC to witness that.

SoleSource Sat 04-May-13 00:28:28



AgentZigzag Sat 04-May-13 00:29:28

From bitter experience, don't get drawn into other peoples relationships.

Whatever good intentions your DH might start out with, it'll end up in tears I can guarantee it (especially with the behaviour your MIL thinks is OK by her).

So from that point of view it'd be completely inappropriate for either of you to go along with your MIL trying to manipulate bringing your DC into the equation, and it's horrible for her to try to use her GC like this.

ZebraOwl Sat 04-May-13 00:34:58

It sounds as though it is tough for your DH to accept that his parents do not create an atmosphere that is healthy for your children. Could you point out that the inevitable slagging off of you (& would I be right to suspect comments will be made about her brother not really being her brother because he has a different father?) will be very distressing for DD?

Is he struggling to cope with the problems in his parents' relationship? Even as an adult if you [want to] have a loving/good relationship with your parents the idea of their relationship collapsing will be frightening. Is he trying to convince himself things are Fine & taking DD would bolster that illusion?

Hope you're able to keep DD away from the toxic waste spill that is her grandparents home - and to do so without causing your husband hurt.

Longdistance Sat 04-May-13 00:35:46

Send your dh on his own. He probably won't stay anyway.

Yanbu to not send your dd into such a dysfunctional environment. I remember your last thread. Dreadful people.

Nanny0gg Sat 04-May-13 00:36:01

Nope. You can guarantee that they will say horrible things about you to/in front of your DD, so for that reason alone, nope.

However, there are many, many more...

pinksmarties13 Sat 04-May-13 00:36:56

Yeah tbh if this was an "ordinary," visit I'd be slightly, slightly more tempted to relent. But given the purpose is for DH to mediate between three violent and volatile adults, who earlier this week needed police involvement after trying to sort things "failed," I really don't want DD to go.

As I've tried to point out to DH, it won't be "enjoyable," for DD. The best outcome we'll her having to sit quietly and listen as this ridiculous, "meeting," goes on for hours on end, the worst is that she spends her weekend at the police station as DH tries to sort things out. There's no other children there, and nothing for kids to do at their house either, o she'll just be sitting around, absorbing this awful atmosphere.

mydadsdaughter Sat 04-May-13 00:37:41

Do not let her go, they sound horrendous

Purplebananas Sat 04-May-13 01:01:00

Don't let her go and cut off all contact with them, they sound awful.

StarsdontShine Sat 04-May-13 01:06:58

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

pinksmarties13 Sat 04-May-13 01:11:22

Zebraowl-you asked if they were insensitive about her brother. Whilst, ( to my knowledge,) they have not said anything directly to her, they make a point of referring to him as "half/step," brother, and (despite the fact DH has lived with him since he was two,) they show no interest in him/ no birthday cards, and minimal interaction with him during their visits.
Years ago MIl once reduced me to tears when I said something about DS, she replied "why should I be interested in that stranger's child? "

This is all very upsetting for DS, as although he normally has a great relationship with DH, the fact that we are only arguing about his grandparents wish to see DD and not him makes it clear that DH is not his "real," dad. So he is now crying about this as well. Just fed up with the stress this is causing my family, all because PIL are so pathetic they require their son to mediate a meting where hey agree to stop pissing in neighbours gardens! and being total cunts

TigerSwallowTail Sat 04-May-13 01:17:33

Oh god no, definitely don't let dh take her up there. I remember your last thread, best thing you can do is keep your dd as far away from these people as possible.

YouDontWinFriendsWithSalad Sat 04-May-13 01:21:46

No way, no way, no way would I ever let my kids within 100 metres of these cretins. What a vile family. How on earth did your DH turn out so normal? (I'm assuming he is if you married him!)

AgentZigzag Sat 04-May-13 01:29:27

'This is all very upsetting for DS, as although he normally has a great relationship with DH, the fact that we are only arguing about his grandparents wish to see DD and not him makes it clear that DH is not his "real," dad. So he is now crying about this as well.'

Are you playing all this out in front of your DS?

I was going to ask how old he is but I think that'd be irrelevant, it's not something you should be shouting about so he can hear is it?

ClaudiaSchiffer Sat 04-May-13 01:33:50

Jeez they sound just lovely. shock

How on earth did your dh survive that childhood without ending up utterly screwed up? I agree with keeping your dd far far away from these people. How can your dh even agree to it? My family are relatively normal and I wouldn't dream of taking a child into a dispute resolution situation it's totally inappropriate.

The thought of your little boy being so upset by them makes me angry. How can your dh contemplate it being a good idea to have any contact with these freaks.

Gigondas Sat 04-May-13 01:38:24

Yanbu -there is no reason for dd to see these people let alone for a weekend like this. Sounds like dh normalised their behaviour, I would also be reiterating that mil is in no circumstances to stay with you.

Agree completely with zigzag that ds should not hear any of this (I realise he has already picked up on it from mil behaviour). I was ds-no good can come of him hearing you argue or dwell on mil. My ( step) dad was brilliant as handled it without my knowledge( he hasn't seen hs sister for 30 years me was a result) and reaffirmed his love for me/my sis, hoe dh can do this for ds.

brew To help you calm a bit.

CSIJanner Sat 04-May-13 01:45:50

YANBU - your DH is going there to mediate not for a jolly. Let alone DD hears about the lovely neighbour or how grandad haggled around. But use that excuse as to why DD can't o - whilst they aren't child abusers, it's a sensitive time and anything can kick off.

OutragedFromLeeds Sat 04-May-13 01:48:23

Youdontwinfriends that's exactly what I was wondering! How on earth did your DP turn out so normal with parents like that OP?

YANBU about your DD.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall at the 'mediation' though....<soft voice> 'Ok, so we've all agreed Mum will stop pissing in the neighbour's garden. What's next on the agenda? Oh yes Dad shagging her....'

pinksmarties13 Sat 04-May-13 02:14:09

Thanks Outragedfromleeds that's made my night smile

Gigondas Sat 04-May-13 02:16:27

"Dad why can grandma wee in the garden and I can't ?"

OutragedFromLeeds Sat 04-May-13 02:48:47


edwardsmum11 Sat 04-May-13 03:39:37

Yanbu, no way should she go.

Cerisier Sat 04-May-13 04:35:57

They sound a bit rough even for Jezza grin

Back to the question- no DD should not be going anywhere near them. I would be worried about DH going near this situation, if the neighbour gets friends or relatives involved it could get nasty.

marcopront Sat 04-May-13 05:39:46

This weekend is not the time to take DD while he is helping sort the problems out but could he arrange to meet them at a neutral place with her later.

SwishSwoshSwoosh Sat 04-May-13 05:58:46

Just say no. A thousand times if necessary. YANBU.

Thepursuitofhappiness Sat 04-May-13 06:09:02

Absolutely YANBU. They will smoke, swear, slag you off and discuss their vile lives in front of your DD. Your DH must agree that these facts are indisputable. Therefore of course she cannot witness these things.

Poor you.

ChasedByBees Sat 04-May-13 06:44:16


financialwizard Sat 04-May-13 06:46:08

Actually I would be questioning whether DH should be 'mediating' if there has been Police involvement. Surely the neighbour is going to furious with your mil's antics regardless of what led to them.

Plus she is abusing her neighbour in front of her children. Hurling rubbish at children is not some form of abuse?

Maybe I am wrong but I would be telling my husband that he'd be nuts to go, and that he most definitely would not be taking our dd under any circumstances.

Actually I'd be pretty upset that dh was going to spend time with people who called me 'that ginger bitch'. And he wouldn't actually - if his parents talked about me like this they'd be roundly told to fuck the fuck off, never mind there bring any question of them seeing our kids.

But I do accept that its not always this simple it should be though

HollyBerryBush Sat 04-May-13 07:16:29


HollyBerryBush Sat 04-May-13 07:17:36

Opps. there is only one soluteion:

Change your name and emigrate. far far far away!

Ye Gods! no no and thrice no should your child be going with Dh into a war zone

quesadilla Sat 04-May-13 07:26:20

It's a credit to your DH that he has grown up as functional as he has, I wouldn't want any child of mine within a 10 mile radius of these vile people. I wouldn't really want my DH there either, though clearly that is more difficult. YANBU.

insancerre Sat 04-May-13 07:32:21

Your DD does not need to be exposed to any of their nighmarish behaviour.
I don't think that your DH should go either.
I certainly wouldn't be wasting any of my time trying to sort out this sort of mess, evn if they were my parents.
Their mess, their problem. Let them deal with it.

Restorer Sat 04-May-13 07:35:21

YADNBU. TBH , I think that if your dd goes to school next week and mentions any of what she is likely to witness, social services would have to be informed. At the very least you (her family) would be on someone's radar. Can you use that to persuade your dh against taking her?

CheerfulYank Sat 04-May-13 07:43:51

Yanbu! They sound completely unhinged.

wishingchair Sat 04-May-13 07:45:25

I'd be saying no! DH can go sort this out and they can all have a day out together somewhere else another time.

And wouldn't be talking about it in front of the kids as no need for them to know anything about it. If day out does happen, DH can take dd and you have and ds do something special.

wishingchair Sat 04-May-13 07:46:25

"you and ds can do something special" I mean ...

CecilyP Sat 04-May-13 07:48:07

Don't let your DD go - she shouldn't be anywhere near these toxic people. While your DH seems to be the only sensible member of his family, point out that the weekend is not a normal social visit to his parents; he is going down to try to sort out the mess that they have got themselves into. He sounds as it he will have his work cut out, so does not need to be caring for a young child as well.

diddl Sat 04-May-13 07:51:36

I think that you should all steer clear & take out a restraining order or something to keep them awa.

At the very least if it's police & "mediation", of course your daughter shouldn't be involved.

Are the GPs thinking that that will give them brownie points??

Personally I'd be tempted to tell my husband if he went he needn't come back.

They're only interested in what he might be able to do for their own ends by the sound of it.

Thumbwitch Sat 04-May-13 07:52:42

YANBU - but wtaf is your DH thinking to even be going himself? He's not going to achieve anything positive, is he - he'll be caught between a rock and a hard place and will probably be roundly abused by all 3 of the buggers!

Frankly I think you should all just pull the plug on them and leave them to rot in their own foetid mess.

If your DH absolutely has to go (and I can't imagine why) then no way should your DD be exposed to this. If he can't see that already, then he needs to think about what's best for HER, not for him, nor his appalling progenitors.

NonnoMum Sat 04-May-13 07:53:42

If ANYONE referred to me as a bitch, (ginger, blonde, brunette, otherwise) they would have broken the bonds of civilised relationships and would pay they price by having NO contact with me (or my dd). Your DH needs to stand up for you. Forget them. Too rude and crazy to bother with.

Altinkum Sat 04-May-13 08:00:34

I wouldn't just simply because of the ginger bitch comment! And that's without anything else.

Simply say NO.

Pobblewhohasnotoes Sat 04-May-13 08:02:43

No, just no.

They sound hideous.

Corygal Sat 04-May-13 08:06:27

It does sound funny and you do sound right. I wouldn't let DD go - DH can say he won't get any mediating done when doing childcare, as an excuse (if you need one).

I would explain to DH that DD is just too young to cope with their antics.

FIL is right - PIL may well lose their home. At least that's good news.

YADNBU. Even if they were naicer, it is completely inappropriate to take a child to adult mediation.

I think focusing on that (rather than "your mother is a toxic bitch") should get through to him better. Good luck!

SanityClause Sat 04-May-13 08:12:10

Ask your DH, if these people weren't family, would he be happy for DD to go? You know, if they really were some randoms off Jezza.

Also show him this thread with its 100% agreement on the subject. I mean, on MN, people start telling each other to fuck off to the far side of fuck for using a toilet brush, or putting the jam on before the cream on a scone. The only time MNers ever agree on something is if it's an important child protection issue.

MagratOfStolat Sat 04-May-13 08:18:35

Words utterly fail me...!

So your DH wants to take DD there?! Yeah! Sure! Why not? Afterwards maybe you could go to B&Q and play with the powertools unsupervised? And then call in the local KFC skip for lunch? And then before you have to leave, how about playing hide-and-seek in the middle of a busy road?


DH is being ridiculous. I'd be an immovable object on this. Dig your heels in and then plan something more fun for the day!

ShipwreckedAndComatose Sat 04-May-13 08:23:23

I remember your thread too!

No, just no!!

And I would calmly list all the behaviours that she has done over this other woman and ask DH if he wants dd involved with this. because if he is going to mediate then, this is not the best time to also try to sort out the family issues!

If they are serious about seeing her, I would have thought it is best he goes there first, sets out a few ground rules and builds it up slowly rather than dragging her into an already highly charged atmosphere.

And one of the ground rules has to be to stop slagging you off!

Fecklessdizzy Sat 04-May-13 08:23:48

Totally agree with everyone else ... If your DH wants to venture into the war zone he should definitely leave your DD at home! He and the pondlife lovely PILs can take her to the zoo or something when the dust settles.

redexpat Sat 04-May-13 08:25:51

Is it in the best interests of DD to go and stay during a mediation?


There's your answer. And I remember that Christmas thread of yours. I really feel for you.

HerrenaHarridan Sat 04-May-13 08:27:52

Ffs! What kind if parent would knowingly drag his dd into the middle of that debacle!

I might have said something different if he was just going for an afternoons chat and catch up with the unsavoury relatives, but he's going to try and prevent the police evicting them for anti-social behaviour!

HerrenaHarridan Sat 04-May-13 08:28:44

Ps yanbu.

Pps book flights ASAP!

DeskPlanner Sat 04-May-13 08:39:08

You are totally NBU. Don't let her go. Poor girl. How old are your ds and dd ?

sweetestcup Sat 04-May-13 08:58:11

DH is really upset with me however, and says whilst he knows his parents are dysfunctional and rude their not child abusers and deserve a chance to spend time with their grandchildren

Well thats debatable I think - ok they may not physically abuse your DD but I think their behaviour could be classified as a degree of indirect emotional abuse because of what they do and say about you and your DS OP and the whole chaotic dysfunction of their lives really. Theres no way you DD wont get exposed to this when shes there without you, god knows what she would have to put up with.

diddl Sat 04-May-13 09:01:52

Can't believe he thinks that they deserve time with their GC, let alone that he actually wants them to have it!!

PunkHedgehog Sat 04-May-13 09:15:06

I agree exactly with sweetestcup and diddl. And in the longer term you really need to get him to see that there's a big gap between simply 'not being child abusers' and actually being suitable people for your children to spend time with. And unravel exactly why he thinks they 'deserve' to see your child.

However, in the short term stick to one simple point. He is going to mediate in a violent dispute. That is not an appropriate thing for a child to take part in. Therefore she will not go on this visit. No argument.

Don't get drawn into wider discussions at this point. Violence, police = child not going. Repeat as often as necessary.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Sat 04-May-13 09:17:31

diddl, I can if he grew up in it and this has been his way of dealing with it all his life.

OpheliasWeepingWillow Sat 04-May-13 09:18:03

I'd divorce my DH before I let me DD spend time with people like that.

Sympathies OP - they sound freaking VILE

whatamardarse Sat 04-May-13 09:18:13

I'm shocked DH is actually putting his parents needs before your dd,ds and yours after all that's happened!

No way would I let any if my children be around such toxic hideous unhealthy creatures. It wouldn't even be up for discussion.

I would honestly say, if you need to go and be dragged back in to that toxicity, then crack on but your not taking dd, and if its an issue, don't come back!

I'd be furious he was even getting involved tbh.

TerrysAllGold Sat 04-May-13 09:25:39

"DH is really upset with me however, and says whilst he knows his parents are dysfunctional and rude their not child abusers"

Your mother in law told a 14 year old that she hoped the child would die of AIDS. That is child abuse.

If it was my husband who couldn't see that I'd be very worried. If it was my husband who wanted to take my child to stay with this woman I'd be telling him that it would happen over my dead body and to choose between his mother and his wife and child and that if he chose the former he'd be in receipt of divorce papers the following week. I wouldn't be joking either.

TheBigJessie Sat 04-May-13 09:30:30

A "mediation" between three very angry adults, plus police station visits is not an appropriate environment for a child. If police involvement of any level is required, they will look even more Jezza than they already do, having dragged along an unnecessary grandchild for the sake of appearances and upping the numbers.

The whole thing is unlikely to go well. A mediator needs to be someone both parties respect as a neutral professional. (Preferably one who's trained to recognise unreasonable behaviour and respond calmly, not conditioned to take the side of one set of parties. In this case, his mother and father.) Even if your husband can do his best to be neutral, his parents will expect him to take their side. If he is in anyway neutral, and mediator-y, they will probably verbally abuse him, and see it as their right to do so.
The plus point of all this is, that your husband may never speak to them again after this weekend!

He may be calling it mediation, but the neighbour could well see him as yet another family member ganging up on her to intimidate her.

Best case scenario for this weekend is that he apologises fervently on their behalf, and says, "I think they've learnt their lesson" and she believes him. (And she'd be a fool to do so!)

No child should be anywhere near this. I can understand why your husband thinks this kind of stuff is normal. (Been there, done that.) But it isn't.

diddl Sat 04-May-13 09:31:38

"diddl, I can if he grew up in it and this has been his way of dealing with it all his life."

OK, I can see that.

Fortunately, it's not just his decision where the welfare of his daughter is concerned.

Hopefully he will at least see that he's going there to try to sort something out.

It's not a social call where the daughter's presence is appropriate or necessary.

piprabbit Sat 04-May-13 09:33:53

It is going to be a difficult, emotional weekend, trying to resolve some terrible behaviours. Your PILs have form for struggling to cope reasonably in stressful situations.

Your DH needs to be able to focus on helping his parents.

Your DD can visit (if appropriate) when things are calmer.

Buzzardbird Sat 04-May-13 09:34:19

When you have a big ugly painful old veruca you get it cut out and thrown don't stick it back on your (or your dd's) toe now and again due to a sense of loyalty because it was once part of you.

You get rid!

Random analogy but do you see where I'm coming from?

2fedup Sat 04-May-13 09:40:05

I feel sorry for your DH, I can't imagine that was a very pleasant or easy childhood, but this is 'normal' for him so I can understand that he doesn't see it as abusive, otherwise his childhood was potentially abusive too, and that is a lot to get your head around.
Having said this, it's not he right place for your DD, stick to your guns. And ask DH is he wants to get help with the mediation, is there anyone who can go with him?

Smellslikecatspee Sat 04-May-13 09:40:57

I just logged on to day what sweetest cup said.
Just because its emotional abuse doesn't make it ok.
And that environment sounds toxic.

Saying that I do feel for your husband.
I'm guessing he continues to feel an obligation to them and in his own head want to have a 'normal' parent/child/grandchild relationship with them.

I think some tactical negotiations are called for here.
Agree in principle to him visiting them with DD BUT NOT THIS WEEKEND.

Bearing in mind their normal behaviour I'd put money on the police being involved this weekend, and that maybe the wake up call your DH needs.

I hope that if you agree to this it will take the pressure off for now and you can then have the discussion about what a toxic environment you'd be exposing her to at a less emotional time.

It sounds like your DH is one of the good ones and unfortunately means he still cares for them. I think from other threads this is called FOG. Fear/obligation/guilt.

I realise my suggestion might sound a bit two faced and manipulative but if it keeps your DD away from them and gives your DH a bit of support so what?

TerrysAllGold Sat 04-May-13 09:44:14

"Your DD can visit (if appropriate) when things are calmer."

WTF? This woman acts like a barbarian. She calls the child's mother a bitch and treats the child's half brother like a stranger and a second class citizen. Who in their right mind would ever allow the woman to see or have contact with their child again?

DontmindifIdo Sat 04-May-13 09:45:58

If MIL might say the slightest insulting thing about you (pretty much a given) then your DD shouldn't be exposed to it, he can tell his mother she's already lost contact with her DGC because of her behaviour, making it clear it's not just you, but he also won't have his mum anywhere near your house. That she can see her DGD again when she proves she can act like a civilised person, and pissing in someone else's garden isn't acting like a normal person.

the only mediation should be to go to sit his mother down, say she should stop behaving like a complete twat or she'll lose her house, and he will not put them up, so she will make herself homeless. If your MIL can't live next door to these people, your MIL should look to move, rather than trying to drive out another family - if your MIL is lucky, she'll end up only losing her house, she could easily end up in trouble with the police. Unless she has mental health problems, she can't be unable to see this has gone beyond what is anywhere near normal?

piprabbit Sat 04-May-13 09:55:08

Terry - I said that because I don't think the OP needs to have a row with her DH about his parents at the moment, he must be having an awful time s it is. All the OP needs to do is say 'not now, it is too emotional and you will be too involved in mediation'. It doesn't mean she can't keep saying 'not now' to any future suggestions about DD visiting the PILs.

Shinigami Sat 04-May-13 09:56:41


You need to keep your DCs away from these people at all costs and if your DH doesn't like it then tough shit.
I hope they do lose their house it would serve them right.

ZillionChocolate Sat 04-May-13 10:04:01

Definitely not the right environment for a child. I don't fancy DH's chances of mediating but he's a grown up so it's his choice.

I think being abusive about a child's mother is emotionally harmful. Sounds like MiL can't help herself. If there is to be contact, I'd suggest it should be infrequent and limited to short periods. Lunch in a neutral venue.

CocacolaMum Sat 04-May-13 10:08:53

Not a fucking chance, no way. You would have to be slightly wrong in the head to allow this woman within spitting distance of your family!! Headcase!

TerrysAllGold Sat 04-May-13 10:15:32

piprabbit, any husband who goes off to help his barbaric, peculiar, uncivilised parent/s when one of them is calling his wife a bitch and treating his stepson as a piece of dirt needs a row about it, not sympathy for "having an awful time" poor thing. hmm I'd be calling his loyalty into question and suggesting that if it lies with his mother he doesn't come back from his visit.

piprabbit Sat 04-May-13 10:17:53

I hadn't realised this was turning into LTB thread.

ben5 Sat 04-May-13 10:27:58

Do you are your outlaws have Skype? If not set it up so they can see the children without them ( the children) ever leaving your home. My kids love talking to their grandparents o Skype. This way you only need to spend 10 minutes each week with them!!

Also inform school of who can and can't pick up your children. make sure they speak to you before any prior family pick ups.

As its gone 5pm here in Perth you should have some wine!!!

fromparistoberlin Sat 04-May-13 10:28:11

sweet FUCKING jesus OP!

oh your poor poor DH

how about a compromise, let her go this one time but (and work out behaviours they are likely to do!) say if they do x, y or z in front of DD she can never go again

they very likely will, and then you have reason to ban

I guess he want some moral support, and will it kill her to see some dysfunctionality???

jesus though!!!

ChocsAwayInMyGob Sat 04-May-13 10:35:10

DH is really upset with me however, and says whilst he knows his parents are dysfunctional and rude their not child abusers and deserve a chance to spend time with their grandchildren

The word "deserve" jars a lot. They have abused all rights with their past behaviour and aggressive verbal abuse. There is not a chance in hell that the weekend will be suitable for children. Your DH must have blinkers on.

I remember your thread from Christmas OP, and I'm glad your DH at least back you on this one, but it would be a firm NO from me in your shoes. Keep repeating it.

Your MIL is already name calling you and there's no way she will stop doing that in front of your child. She is obviously unscrupulous and will try and fill your DD's with all sorts of crap a young girl should never hear.

I hope this situation doesn't threaten your marriage. Show your DH this thread.

lisad123everybodydancenow Sat 04-May-13 10:41:57

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Keep DD away from them.

I keep my kids away from my MIL as her and her alcy boyfriend have two massive untrained Alsatians in their hovel of a house. I am open about why we will never visit them but have always said they are welcome to visit us instead. They never do as they think I'm a stuck up bitch because I don't like their hell hounds. I am delighted by this as it means I never have to see them.

Pigsmummy Sat 04-May-13 10:43:45

I remember your thread and suspected that you would encounter more madness from these people. Your DH should tell his mother that the situation as it is the best plan is for him to go on his own this time, next time he can take DD, when thing are calmer. (which they won't be and your DD won't go next time either). Your DH needs to understand that it isn't normal for children to be involved in their parents marital/sexual issues.

Misspixietrix Sat 04-May-13 10:48:46

Agree with everyone else, I don't think you are being unreasonable in the slightest. I wouldn't be happy sending my dd into a situation which could potentially turn volatile again ~

bebopanddoowop Sat 04-May-13 11:06:26

What a horrible and tricky situation for you. I understand and totally agree with you that you don't want your DD to stay there, the problem is how to approach this with DH and grandparents.. I would suggest coming at the angle of rather than that you don't want her to be surrounded by these people at all (as true as that may be...) that you don't think it's an appropriate time - and perhaps after their problems with this other woman has passed then they can spend some quality undistracted time together instead of being in the middle of an argument. Perhaps suggest a daytrip - that way you're on neutral ground & can up and leave if things get too hairy! Good luck x

flippinada Sat 04-May-13 11:12:55

I remember your previous thread about the in laws from hell too.

Haven't read the entire thread but if anyone thinks yabu I will find several hats and eat them.

fromparistoberlin Sat 04-May-13 11:21:07

i have to say I have the most pity for her DH

and for OP too, don't get me wrong

the parental tie is strong, and it must be ever so hard from him

so I guess I am saying go easy, try and find a compromise and agree that if she sees X, Y or Z its a deal breaker, get HIM to define the type of behaviours that are deal breakers, not you IFSWIM????

your FIL sounds like that Philpott fucker OP, what a bloody mare

and as for LTB, jesus. zero sympathy for someone that has come from a background like this and has moved on and is thriving :-(

DameFanny Sat 04-May-13 11:22:23

<passes flippinada the salt and pepper> this is Mumsnet after all...

greenformica Sat 04-May-13 11:25:42

It's not appropriate. Can you imagine how heated things can get? Tell DH DS/DD cannot go until you have had several visits where they behaved appropriately.

Personally I would be cutting ties though and keeping my kids away.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Sat 04-May-13 11:26:14

I am almost tempted to say YABU just for the hat eating promise wink

Tailtwister Sat 04-May-13 11:30:25

YANBU. There's no way I would even consider exposing my child to these people. They have proven themselves to be foul and untrustworthy and it's a real shame that your DH has to deal with that, but he needs to do the right thing and keep them away from his family. I'm sure in his heart of hearts he knows you are right.

flippinada Sat 04-May-13 11:38:23


I'm actually that confident nobody will disagree.

I expect DH will probably have normalised this to an extent as he grew up in this hideously dysfunctional environment.

eggsandwich Sat 04-May-13 11:51:30

I most definitely would'nt let my child anywhere near them. I understand that your Dh has to like them as they are his parents, but would say to him that I know that they don't abuse our children, but they do however suffer from the worse case of verbal diarrhoea I have ever heard of, so for that reason the answer is no.

ratspeaker Sat 04-May-13 11:54:30

Is this some sort of official mediation with a trained impartial person involved ( on a bank holiday weekend? ) or an attempt to further intimidate the neighbour by having increased numbers and younger fitter members in the family arrive on their doorstep for a "chat"?

Shouting at their mother, chucking rubbish in the garden where kids play and using the garden as a toilet IS a form of child abuse. Do you think these kids feel safe and secure in their own home. That they can go down the street without worrying if there will be verbal abuse or that they can lay safely in their own garden?

And your DH wants to take his child into the middle of all that? I agree with you totally OP when you say " this is a completely inappropriate environment to take a child into, and am refusing to let her go."

It would be far safer for your DD to see her grandparents somewhere neutral
A picnic, a trip to the park/beach/zoo/museum not a war zone where totally inappropriate adult behaviour is being discussed

ChocsAwayInMyGob Sat 04-May-13 12:11:04

Op do show your DH this thread. it might help him realise that what he sees as his parents usual, normal behaviour, is unquestionably unacceptable to the vast majority of society.

I think he is too close to see clearly.

thebody Sat 04-May-13 12:21:15

Of course she shouldn't go. You would be a had parent to expose her to them.

foslady Sat 04-May-13 13:23:03

No. No no no no no.

Do not let your dd go. This is a 'mediation' session with a woman who has no boundaries or idea of acceptable behaviour. Do you really want your dd exposed to that, let alone anything and everything else that will be thrown into the mix

Hi op, I remember your thread from when these vile people they came to stay. shock

No, your dd should not go. Your husband can choose to go and mediate if he really must, and good luck to him with that hmm but it is not in your dd's best interests to go. Not at all. They can not be trusted not to say destructive, disgusting and totally inappropriate things in front of her. They do this even when you are there if I remember correctly.

so, no. just no.

Your DH should want what is best for his dd. And this, clearly, is not what is best.


" DH is really upset with me however, and says whilst he knows his parents are dysfunctional and rude their not child abusers and deserve a chance to spend time with their grandchildren. He does agree it's no longer appropriate for them to come to our house."
So, the real problem here, IMO, is your DH, not your PIL. (They are a different problem entirely, which you are sensibly dealing with by having no contact with them whatsoever.)

So, to your DH. He's looking at it all the wrong way round. It has nothing to do with whether or not his parents 'deserve' to spend time with their granddaughter; this is about what your daughter deserves. Does she deserve to be exposed to this very seedy soap opera? Because there's no way of separating her meeting them and her being exposed to her dad's 'mediation' attempts. If she's going to be there, then she's going to hear all the gory details. Why on earth would your DH think that's a good idea?

Sadly, the only thing I can think of, is that he cannot see just how bad they are. Yes, he can "agree it's no longer appropriate for them to come to our house" , but I expect that's to do with keeping you and them apart, rather than the extreme behaviour they are modelling to your DC. I don't think he can see that how they behave will affect both children. That they don't have to physically abuse the DC to unsettle them. That DC have memories, and will mull over what they hear and witness. I think you have to work on MAKING him see that just being around his parents is not good for any child. You can point to how they have treated this neighbour's children, how they treat your son. That they don't want to see your DD for herself, but just as a way to get one over on 'the ginger bitch'. I don't know if he will 'get' it - he may well have a blind spot for them. In his eyes, he turned out all right, didn't he? But your DD is not him, nor should she be expected to cope with this pair. It's just not fair to her.

ImTooHecsyForYourParty Sat 04-May-13 15:10:33

It would be a HUGE mistake for your husband to go anywhere near them.

There is no way that this is going to end well.

you need them out of your life!

Nobody has a right to be in anyone's life regardless of their behaviour. You are in someone's life until or unless your behaviour means that you don't deserve to be in it any more.

I think that applies to them.

SugarPasteGreyhound Sat 04-May-13 15:38:55

I remember your other thread.

The point you need to make to your DH is that it's not about what his parents deserve, it's about what's in your DD's best interests.

Can he, hand on heart, honestly say that it's absolutely the best thing for her to spend time over there at the moment? He needs to think about his responsibility to his daughter before he thinks about what his parents want.

Your daughter is the one with rights. Everyone else has responsibilities.

CalamityKate Sat 04-May-13 15:47:50

No. Do not let your DCs have any contact at all with these awful, awful people.

gotthemoononastick Sat 04-May-13 16:16:58

I ask again,with tears in my eyes....did you not meet this family before getting involved with their son,never mind marrying into it?
Surely you go with the same background,values and culture?
Wouldn't have seen me for dust,even if he was Brad Pitt!

ZebraOwl Sat 04-May-13 16:57:36

So sorry your DS is being upset by this - is that fact going to help convince your DH not to take DD though? I mean, that doesn't make his being upset ok, but are you able to at least turn it to your advantage?

LimitedEditionLady Sat 04-May-13 17:00:06

Dont let her go and see them participating in this ridiculous charade.

Widowwanky Sat 04-May-13 17:11:33

You DD could end up hurt, or involved with SS if you DH manages to start a fight as presumably the womans DH is not overly happy with any of this either. And what exactly is he going to negotiate ?

TheRealFellatio Sat 04-May-13 17:21:33

I remember you, you poor woman.

Not only would I refuse to let my child have anything to do with this pair of revolting nutjobs, I'd be very loathe to let me husband go either. It sounds like it could all end up getting very nasty indeed. Still, I realise you cannot sop him if he has some misplaced sense of loyalty to them, but I would put my foot down about DD. Totally inappropriate circumstances for her to be seeing them.

LemonBreeland Sat 04-May-13 17:42:01

Why would yoyr DH want your DD around someone who called his wife and his daughter's mother a ginger bitch?

congresstart Sat 04-May-13 21:45:21

If it kicks off and the police are involved if he takes DD SS will be duty bound to get involved...ask your DH if he wants to risk that hassle.

CarpeDiemCras Sat 04-May-13 22:00:31

My paternal grandparents were arseholes like this, done to the stuck up insults etc. because mum is ostensibly more educated than dad (circumstance, dad is more academic in maths / science, mum is better in Englishness and also common sense)

I hardly saw my grandparents because for all the faults of my mother's family (and there are plenty) and for all the passage of time, one you call your future daughter in law a fucking Fenian bastard whore, all bets are off.

Dad gave them limited access and they took limited use of it, but whenever they turned up at our house, the expectation was laid out. The more vitriolic (my grandfather) didn't pitch up.

Point? Well I don't know how much of one there is. My upbringing wasn't entirely functional, but it was pretty bloody clear that mum and dad were a team. Regardless of all else that is surely important.

GreyWhites Sat 04-May-13 23:07:39

They are his parents, when all is said and done. It's all very well for people to say cut all ties, but it's not that simple.

I would personally want to be involved with occasions where DD sees grandparents, purely so I knew exactly what was done and said in her presence. Keeping visits shorter is probably a good idea. And definitely don't let DD go this time, for all the reasons given above, i.e. it's likely to get emotional and you don't want DD to be involved in this.

It's not worth falling out with your husband about his parents, you just need to talk things through with him. He sounds reasonable and I'm sure he has your daughter's best interests at heart too.

Thumbwitch Sat 04-May-13 23:16:22

Has anyone asked your DD if she even wants to go? Or is she too young to answer that? (Sorry, have missed age)

But even if she did want to go, the points about violence, potential police involvement, SS etc. are VERY valid and important. Child protection is paramount and they would take a very dim view of your DH taking his DD into that volatile situation, and a pretty dim view of you allowing it, even if you haven't, iyswim.

She CANNOT go.

pigletmania Sat 04-May-13 23:19:58

Yanbu At all. I remember that thread and your in was dreadful behaviour upset your dd, in fact tey were nasty to your dd. nowayshould she goand stay with them

Devora Sat 04-May-13 23:25:51

I agree with everyone else that your dd shouldn't go, and am intrigued as to what this mediation is supposed to achieve. Does your dh really think he might help achieve an amicable settlement?

MayTheOddsBeEverInYourFavour Sun 05-May-13 01:26:23

YANBU you would be seriously letting your dd down if you let her go

I am disgusted with your H for not wanting to protect his child. How dare he be upset with you when he is the one getting involved in such a fucked up situation. I would think his daughters welfare was far more important than the ridiculous situation they've got themselves in but it seems he has other priorities hmm

So sorry you're in this situation pink, you deserve better and especially from your husband

MyShoofly Sun 05-May-13 03:52:45

I remember your first post.....I wouldn't want any child of mine associating with those people. seriously, they were beyond vile and inappropriate. history has already told you they won't reign it in around their grandchildren either.

YADNBU - your DH can have his own private relationship with them (at their house) if he likes.

TheRealFellatio Sun 05-May-13 09:27:26

It's sounds to me less like 'mediation' and more like they want a strapping younger man on their side if it all comes down to undignified fisticuffs in the street. Uuurgghh. What horrorbags.

Yes, thinking more about why they want him down for the weekend and what this 'mediation' is all about ...
Neighbour is much younger and married, so presumably her husband is also younger than PIL. Sorry, but your PIL do sound appalling enough to be expecting your DH to be their proxy punchbag. What else can it be? Can they really expect that he'd be able to persuade the neighbours to withdraw their complaints to the council? I very much doubt it (both that they'd expect that or that he would be able to). On the plus side, getting punched on their behest might finally persuade him that he's better off without them sad.

Figgygal Sun 05-May-13 10:09:08

Jesus that is vile is the woman ill or always been like that?

DumSpiroSpero Sun 05-May-13 10:39:21

Regardless of anything else whatsoever, the fact that your DH is going to mediate because of a fall out with the neighbours makes the situation potentially volatile and therefore inappropriate to be taking a child into.

Factoring in everything else, the only sensible answer to your DH/IL's suggestion is 'over my dead body'.

pigletmania Sun 05-May-13 11:31:12

I would not want my dd in a violent volatile situation with horrid vie individuals who were asty to her at Christmas. Noway op!

pigletmania Sun 05-May-13 11:32:58

And if they do get thrown out of their house no way should they stay at yours

foslady Sun 05-May-13 16:50:33

You ok, OP?

phantomnamechanger Sun 05-May-13 17:41:05

Aside from the fact that they are dreadful "role models" and your DD will undoubtedly be exposed to foul language and lewd talk/behaviour and hearing you being spoken of in a detrimental manner, all of which counts as emotional abuse in my book, I would seriously fear for her physical well being too - you have said they smoke round her against your wishes for a start? I fear there is every chance of this whole bizarre scenario "kicking off" big time - she may witness slanging matches, fights, FGS these sound like the sort of people who settle neighbourhood disputes by torching each others houses!

Your DD has NOTHING to gain from being in a relationship with them at all, however, I feel for your DH too - deep down he WANTS his parents to be normal, he wants them to have the chance to be better grandparents than they were parents. He wants them to have the second chance of a better relationship with him through their relationship with their DGD - he probably feels he has to excuse and forgive them over and over again so that HE has not failed in his side of the relationship. Would he let DD go to a sleepover where the family behaved like this? If he is intent on trying to help them, that's more than they deserve and you should support his wishes, but NOT at the expense of DD going with him and being subjected to all manner of frankly, scary and potentially dangerous goings on.

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