Medical/christian ethics. Long.

(87 Posts)
stopmovingthefurniture Wed 01-May-13 20:44:35

Sorry if this is in the wrong place. I need advice on how to deal with a orthopedic surgeon (hereafter called X) who will not see me again until I go and ask my mother for forgiveness for the anger he believes I'm holding against her (but is harassing via email all the same!).

X is a family friend, in church leadership close to my parents. The denomination is evangelical. When he heard that I've been left disabled following a pregnancy, X offered to help me out of concern and is not being paid. He practices privately and is accountable to no one, at least in this instance. He checked at least twice that I was ok with his approach ('treating the whole person'). I gave consent, thinking that it sounded pleasantly holistic.

X has been taking a thorough history before doing anything - a deeply invasive process that took about seven hours, spread over 3-4 visits (plus very probing homework). While he was gentle and almost uncomfortably fatherly, it was clear that he was trying to zero in on anger towards DM during the questioning. DM was a controlling, possessive parent and I was a depressed teenager as a result. (Incidentally, X's history was a much more invasive and directive than a psychiatrist would carry out). I ended up actually apologising for not having much anger these days, having talked it through many years ago.

X now wants me to go to my mother re: forgiveness because (a) seeking forgiveness is obligatory for a professing christian and (b) it will create a physical release that will bring my physical up to a standard that he can use a medical intervention (steroid injection into the pelvic area).

On X's last visit, his manner was completely changed. He raised his voice and vehemently began to say I was ill because of the sin in my life; I needed to seek my mother's forgiveness for how I'd felt about her through my childhood and beyond. I tried to disagree and he held up my 'homework', half-shouting 'It's all over this!'. In the same tone, he virtually shouted what I'd written: 'deep unhappiness, isolation, annoyance...'. These emotions hadn't been connected with my mum and he'd made the word 'annoyance' up. When I pointed this out, he seemed very irritated and said 'Come on, there must have been anger!' He quoted a psalm in which the writer says that his bones ache as a result of sin (proof that bone problems can be the result of sin). Then another biblical example, of a man who had been thrown into torment because he had not forgiven a debt despite having had a larger debt forgiven himself. 'Would you say you were in torment?' he asked. I felt cornered because I'm clearly in torment. So I tried to engage with the request (why DM exactly) and X told me I was arrogantly overthinking when all that was required was faith, quoting the example of the Old Testament character who was cured of an illness by washing seven times in the Jordan, a river he considered unclean.

DH was tried to clarify the request and engage with it on my behalf, to which X repeatedly said 'look, I've been at this a long time' and went on to describe a past case where a woman in exactly my situation who hadn't done what he'd asked. He didn't want to say what had happened to her. X said the situation was urgent and deterioration would occur if the treatment didn't progress. He told me I may well have to hand over parenting responsibilities to my mother if I don't follow his 'request' (something I'd earlier said I had fears about, despite a specialist physio saying this isn't going to happen).

* X finished the consultation by telling me to arrange another when I'd done what he'd asked. I haven't done it and wasn't sure what to say to him, so I haven't yet contacted him (3 weeks later). He has now sent a couple of angry emails reiterating the urgent nature of the case and 'ramifications as stated'. I feel trapped.

* My very abusive FIL is also a church leader (same kind of church). DP refused to obey him and divorce me when we were struggling a couple of months into our marriage (FIL said that God would understand it was really an annulment because I was not 'as advertised'...) We eventually stepped back from relationship with them because it was simply toxic. I suspect he's the next person X would be sending me to ask forgiveness (X says God wishes everyone to be reconciled).

How do I deal with this? Is there anyone out there to help with this?

HollyBerryBush Wed 01-May-13 20:46:24

You aren't getting this on the NHS are you?

On phone. Can't post properly but will do later.

Report him to the royal college of surgeons. And tell him to get to fuck. He's barking. And manipulative.

And the only god in this scenario is the god complex he's got for himself

Seriously?

X is abusive and needs reporting to the GMC. You need to see your GP and ask for referral to a proper doctor. One practicing medicine not loopy, bullying nonsense. And I say that as somebody who attends an evangelical church.

AtYourCervix Wed 01-May-13 20:50:27

He sounds completely unhinged. Can you find if he us registered with the GMC? and formally complain about his bizarre and unptofessional behaviour.

ginmakesitallok Wed 01-May-13 20:50:31

The man is clearly mad. You're not in the UK are you?

pointythings Wed 01-May-13 20:52:57

I wouldn't trust this man, and I'd find a proper doctor.

Here's the link to make a complaint to the GMC www.gmc-uk.org/concerns/making_a_complaint/a_patients_guide.asp. Remember that he is taking these beliefs with him to work and therefore you are not the only patient at risk from them. See your GP for a referral to a consultant.

I would chuck in a complaint about him to the hospital who employ him too. Bet he bullies the staff as well.

KeatsiePie Wed 01-May-13 20:53:48

Omg. You ask who might help you deal with this, and I am really sorry that I have no idea who might help you get this person to leave you alone, but you and your DP sound quite strong and used to setting boundaries, so do you actually need help? Can you not just tell him you're terminating the "treatment" and to fuck off and never contact you again or you will have him charged for harassment?

TigerseyeMum Wed 01-May-13 20:54:11

This man is dangerously unwell and is not fit to practise medicine. He may be treating you 'privately' but he is accountable to his professional accrediting body.

Find out who he is accredited with (he will need to be to be insured - he is insured isn't he?) and speak with them, urgently.

Do not contact him whatsoever. If you do see him again record all conversations as evidence.

He could be struck off just for his behaviour so far. You have a responsibility to others to stop this person ASAP.

BlueberryHill Wed 01-May-13 20:54:25

Are you in the UK? The man is a charlatan, if you are in the UK report to the GMC and ask for a referral from your GP to see someone who will help you.

His approach is bollucks.

KeatsiePie Wed 01-May-13 20:55:10

And yes report him to whatever medical licensing body he is accredited by.

Delayingtactic Wed 01-May-13 20:55:22

Are you in the UK? Do not under any circumstances allow this 'surgeon' near you with a needle. What he is proposing is barking at best, lethal at worst. Seriously.

If in the UK report to the GMC. He is accountable to them if working as a medical practitioner.

If not in the UK, disengage. Don't reply to emails.

BoreOfWhabylon Wed 01-May-13 20:57:25

Call the GMC

Don't enter into any further communication with the Doctor. Save all his communications to you

poglol Wed 01-May-13 20:57:54

Run away. This man will not help. He's playing on your background to guilt you into doing something you don't want to do.

Set your email so he goes to spam. Ignore him and seek advice from another doctor, even if it costs you.

A religious belief is something to celebrate and enjoy as a member of a community, not something to guilt trip you with and make you miserable.

MooncupGoddess Wed 01-May-13 20:59:55

This is appalling on several different levels. Manipulative, disturbing, intrusive, unprofessional, etc etc.

If possible you should never see him again. Will that cause problems with your parents? Do you still go to their church?

Metbird Wed 01-May-13 21:00:40

mmm...nor really evidence based medicine is it? I would go to your GP and ask to referred to someone within the NHS. At the same time I would also report him to the GMC. There is no way his private faith should interfere with your treatment, whether you are a private patient or otherwise. This is deeply unprofessional and rather worrying since the behaviour you describe is very controlling and manipulative. I further worry, given his unprofessional behaviour so far, that he might consider 'bending' the rules on patient confidentiality and speaking your DM and other family members (Do you feel he knows more about your situation then you have told him?). Don't go back, cut all contact and get yourself treated by someone that respects and supports you - pretty much any other doctor.

Metbird Wed 01-May-13 21:01:19

...NOT evidence based medicine...

MarvellousYou Wed 01-May-13 21:01:40

Not sure what to say but so sorry that God is being used as an excuse to bully you, especially when you are in need of proper help and support.

It sounds as though X is in need of his own counselling. People that spiritually abuse know their bible's/koran etc well but will leave out the bits that condemn their own behaviour. He is not a holy man and you owe him nothing. Please get some NHS/ safe private medical care x

Heebiejeebie Wed 01-May-13 21:01:41

Please please report him to the GMC. And get a referral to a pain clinic.

iklboo Wed 01-May-13 21:02:32

Check on GMC website if he's registered with them. Even if you're not in the UK but he is registered with them they can still consider looking into it. He sounds bonkers!

raspberryroop Wed 01-May-13 21:03:52

I try to respect peoples choices in belief as part of my efforts to become a peaceful Buddhist - but this is exactly the sort of thing that makes we want to tear down every sign I see for the Alpha course and shout loon at every JW that comes to our door and basically blow up every church I see.

raspberryroop Wed 01-May-13 21:05:39

It misogynist Christian patriarchal shit at best - at worse its EA at worst it could become physical abuse. Get some normal sane counselling with a woman who you are sympatica with.

Norem Wed 01-May-13 21:07:11

Hi op wow well your post was the most incredible situation that I have ever read on mumsnet smile
There seem to be two completely separate issues here.
The medical one.
The religious one.
I would go and see your gp about the medical one, have nothing to do with this man, he is using his professional status to bully you about your emotions, I would report him to the GMC.
The religious one, Are you religious? I know people use their faith to help them through difficult situations but you seem to have people near you using religion to bully you.
Your husband sounds like a good ally.
Do let us know how you get on, good luck.

Dh2812 Wed 01-May-13 21:10:58

Are you in the uk? Even if he doesn't work for a hospital or clinic he still has to be registered with the General Medical Council to practise as a doctor and is accountable to them and to their code of practise. He has clearly overstepped his remit which is orthopeadic surgeon not psychiatrist. You should report him and refuse to be treated by him.

Melawen Wed 01-May-13 21:11:24

What?! This is COMPLETELY outside the bounds of professionalism. I have got so much I want to say and I'm so angry on your behalf that I just can't get the words out!!! angry

I understand that there are some people that do work holistically, but this is NOT holism. This is bullying, plain and simple. He needs to be reported to whichever body you can find - GMC, BMA, Royal College of Surgeons, or whatever professional body you can find where you are. If you need help with this there are various patient groups that you can seek help from even if I can't think of any right now.

Most hospitals have a PALS department (which may not be relevant here as this is a private practice) BUT the nearest PALS dept may be able to offer advice.

I am seething for you!!

'I try to respect peoples choices in belief as part of my efforts to become a peaceful Buddhist - but this is exactly the sort of thing that makes we want to tear down every sign I see for the Alpha course and shout loon at every JW that comes to our door and basically blow up every church I see.'

Errrrrrr - keep trying with the Buddism I think. You do know that JW and Christians are very different and there's NOTHINg in the Alpha course or indeed in the teachings of Christ to back up this abusive bully in his misuse of his position don't you?
Given that churches are blwn up in various parts of the world as a way to persecute Christians I find your remark in bad taste to say the least, though I sympathise with the anger.

stopmovingthefurniture Wed 01-May-13 21:13:33

Thanks for the replies.

Yes, I'm in the UK. I didn't realise he was accountable to GMC despite working privately.

If I have a responsibility to report him I'll do so. Had hoped to find a softer response for my parents' sake.

It's reassuring to hear you all say this is madness. It felt like madness but you get sucked in to a certain extent. Irrational guilt.

I will see if he's registered and report back.

FarBetterNow Wed 01-May-13 21:16:37

This man is not helping you.
Do not reply to his emails - just ignore them, but do not delete as you will need them as evidence.
Maybe put them in a seperate folder so you don't see them in your inbox.

StrangeGlue Wed 01-May-13 21:18:36

I think you should speak to the police about this man for two reasons . Firstly he's putting yours and I assume other people at risk. Secondly he is harassing you and that isn't legal. Do not respond to him and keep copies of everything you get from him. He is not above the law because of his status in the community.

Squitten Wed 01-May-13 21:19:04

Good grief! Absolutely report him - he sounds mad!!

Get to the GP and get referred somewhere

Blessyou Wed 01-May-13 21:20:26

Even if he is not registered, report him.
GMC have a role in ensuring people who are not registered do not practice medicine, privately or otherwise.

Charlesroi Wed 01-May-13 21:20:47

Keep the abusive, bullying emails. The man is a fruitloop who is trying to manipulate you, and doing it in the name of God. He's a disgrace to his profession .

Go to a proper doctor for treatment (or at the very least get a second opinion).
I really hope you feel better soon.

nenevomito Wed 01-May-13 21:27:00

If he's a surgeon, he'll be registered. Report him to the GMC, send his emails and explain the situation.

This blows every other story of unprofessionalism I have ever heard out of the water.

jackstini Wed 01-May-13 21:29:05

Def report him - he is not helping you, bullying you even.

The forgiveness issue is a separate one; how do you feel about it?
Speaking as someone who forgave someone something I never thought I would - it took an immense burden from me.
A friend asked me who it was hurting holding onto the hate - the only person was me.
She also said, just because you forgive and let it go, does NOT mean it didn't happen.

Do you have a faith and if so are you feeling any conflict?

Sometime forgiveness can help rather than bottling up - although still think this man is completely overstepping the line and is bonkers, not going about things in the right way AT ALL!

pointythings Wed 01-May-13 21:35:17

Since you're in the UK - report, report, report!

DontmindifIdo Wed 01-May-13 21:36:35

Report him, GMC and police.

then tomorrow, go to see your GP, tell them all of this, get back in the NHS system.

Deal with the health issues, that this man is not behaving in a professional way and that you need help, and then look at the spiritual side - but I would talk this side through with someone from a different church.

There is nothing ethical or Christian about this.
This person should not be practicing medicine.
Report to GMC
Consider reporting to police as well.
Constituted harassment: 1997 Protection From Harassment Act, a course of conduct on more than one occasion causing alarm and distress.

This is abuse of the vulnerable and quite breathtakingly appalling. To use a position of religious and medical authority to abuse a patient and family friend is disgraceful.

stopmovingthefurniture Wed 01-May-13 21:47:00

Don't know his GMC registration number but will find it out.

Thank you again for the kind responses. I'll let the surgeon know I'm withdrawing from treatment without giving a reason. Will look into the complaints procedure on the GMC website.

jack- thanks for your thoughts on forgiveness. I agree that it can be liberating - just not in this context smile

iklboo Wed 01-May-13 21:53:44

If you google LRMP (List of Registered Medical Practitioners) & enter his name you can find his GMC number.

MarvellousYou Wed 01-May-13 21:54:06

FWIW I can see how you've got into this situation OP, I had a similar experience over post-natal depression and the churches (hidden) view of the medical model. I suffered for alot longer than necessary because I trusted that it was a spiritual issue.

You're not alone OP and it's not easy to see the people we view as authoritative as abusers especially when they use something so close to our hearts as a weapon to hurt us. God does not want you to suffer and He would not hold back healing from you, He is loving, kind and merciful, I think you know this man is not acting out of love for you x

hiddenhome Wed 01-May-13 21:55:08

He is harassing you shock

report
report
report

I hope you manage to find some resolution.

jackstini Wed 01-May-13 21:58:46

You're welcome Stop.

Be strong on leaving the treatment, he doesn't need any explanation.
You just need to do what's best for you.

LessMissAbs Wed 01-May-13 22:00:24

X is a family friend, in church leadership close to my parents

This is a conflict of interest and a breach of professional ethics. You could make a complaint to the GMC.

Alternatively, you could stop seeing him and see another doctor on the NHS.

interalia Wed 01-May-13 22:05:16

Get them GMC on his arse.

What is this crackpot church he works in? Is it some kind of cult?

Pigsmummy Wed 01-May-13 22:06:02

Go to see a doctor, obe who has your best medical interests at heart. I am not knocking religion, far from it I am a Christian, but this man isn't treating you as you wish.

greenbananas Wed 01-May-13 22:10:33

This man is wrong in so many ways, very abusive, and it's awful that you are going through this.

Presumably, you have some knowledge of the Bible, given your upbringing... can you imagine Jesus behaving like that? This man is not helping to heal you, he is hurting you with his damaging, irreligious nonsense. He is twisting scripture to suit his own ends, and the whole thing sounds evil to me.

For example, example, blaming your condition on your sin is total rubbish!! Do you remember the story about the man born blind? (John ch 9) - the disciples asked who had sinned, that man or his parents, and Jesus said "Neither this man or his parents sinned, but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life".

How dare he demand that you seek forgiveness from your parents? It is not their forgiveness that matters - and he is saying that you were wrong to be hurt, which clearly not the case.

Please do report this man, and make sure you get the right help from people qualified to give it.

Not all evangelicals are like your FIL and this dodgy, horrible man.

BrienneOfTarth Wed 01-May-13 22:16:14

This man is an abuser - you clearly have the strength and confidence not to be deceived by him and are quite rightly backing away - well done! but it is important for the sake of future intended victims of his actions that you do whatever you can to stop him falsely gaining the trust and confidence of others.

Forgiveness is indeed good for the soul when/if one has the strength for it, BUT the idea that granting or witholding forgiveness can have any effect at all on medical issues is quackery that is utterly unethical.

justabigdisco Wed 01-May-13 22:24:52

OP. I'm a doctor. This man sounds dangerous and it is absolutely essential that you report him to the GMC. Sorry, I guess you probably don't want to cause problems within your family, but I have never heard such a scary story about a doctor. Please, please report to the GMC.

RescueCack Wed 01-May-13 22:33:15

shockshockshock As an evangelical Christian this is horrifying. He needs reporting.

theboutiquemummy Wed 01-May-13 22:35:11

I'm a Christian leaning towards evangelical and I'm going to tell you now that THIS HAS NOTHING WHAT SO EVER TO DO WITH GOD he doesn't operate in this fashion

Please do not see this man again and report him this is ABUSE !

badbelinda Wed 01-May-13 22:37:29

I'm also a Dr and like bigdisco am horrified at this story, PLEASE report to GMC so nobody else comes under his "care"

Giggle78 Thu 02-May-13 09:32:05

I am a Christian and can I tell you now that this is outrageous.

Do not go back to this man.

Musicaltheatremum Thu 02-May-13 10:26:46

As a GP (and a Christian ...although he sounds most unChristianlike) I would say run from this very quickly and phone the GMC and tell them what has happened. I am very concerned by your post and concerned about what has happened. I don't know if the invasivness was physical or mental but he is totally abusing his position as a medical practitioner. Did he explain in detail how his "holistic" approach worked? There is nothing wrong with treating the whole person as psychological factors affect pain etc but this is not normal.
Please do not see this man again and please phone the GMC.

Fakebook Thu 02-May-13 10:33:04

shock My initial thought was "this can't be in the UK"...but it is?

Report the loon!

Booboostoo Thu 02-May-13 10:54:17

This is a very worrying post OP. I am so sorry you were subjected to this and under no circumstances should you see this man again and certainly not in a professional capacity.

If he is a doctor then he is legally obliged to be registered with the GMC who need to know about his conduct as a matter of urgency. He sounds mentally ill in a way that would compromise the care he gives his patients.

If he is not a qualified doctor but claims to be or offers medical treatment you need to contact the police.

CwtchesAndCuddles Thu 02-May-13 11:00:33

Another evangelical christian here - this is madness PLEASE REPORT THIS MAN!

wreckedone Thu 02-May-13 11:11:24

If this is for real, then the guy needs reporting-any doctor, practising in the NHS or not, must be registered. [[http://www.gmc-uk.org/ GMC) allows you to check registration using his name. Do it.

wreckedone Thu 02-May-13 11:12:54

If this is for real, then the guy needs reporting-any doctor, practising in the NHS or not, must be registered. GMC allows you to check registration using his name. Do it.

Weegiemum Thu 02-May-13 11:16:42

This is utterly horrific!

(I'm speaking from the position of being a practising fairly evangelical Christian married to a doctor).

1) the medical side is crap. Orthopods are renowned throughout the medical world for being really crap at communication and if he has no proper counselling training (like a GP or Psychiatrist) then he's waaaaay overstepping the bounds of his speciality. You really need to report, both to the Royal College of Surgeons and also the GMC. As a matter of urgency - who knows what other patients he's peddling his crap to?

2) as a"Christian" he's also being crap. Your issues with your mother are none of his bloody business and he is way over the line here too. I'd consider writing to his church leader/pastor/minister and explaining the pressure he is putting you under.

You can get help on the NHS for your pelvic problems. And if you need to deal with things regarding your mother, you can be referred to counselling on the nhs too. Stay away from this dangerous man!

2 questions though
Did you know him in any way before this?
Are you in N.Ireland? If so, I think I know who it is (sorry).

BreastmilkCrucifiesAFabLatte Thu 02-May-13 11:27:18

Speaking also as a Christian, I agree that this doctor is just beyond the pale and being just unacceptably inappropriate and unprofessional.

Certainly there is a broad acceptance within Christianity that a lack of forgiveness may lead to medical problems, but the operative word is may. A medical degree and the Hippocratic Oath entitle Christians to practice as doctors, not to pass judgment on the personal and/or spiritual lives of their patients. This man has no authority whatsoever to demand anything of you.

I've had a fair bit of help from private Christian doctors over the years, and so am not in principle opposed to those who practice outside the NHS in order to use their faith in the way that they practice. But this man is trying to abuse his power and to manipulate you.

And so, I agree with other posters: do not contact him again (either directly or through your DH/parents) and do not answer any phone calls/emails/letters from him. Report him to the GMC.

PunkHedgehog Thu 02-May-13 11:56:57

As so many others have said, this 'surgeon' is insane and dangerous.

I'm glad you're going to the GMC. Please also report him to any other professional bodies he is (or claims to be) registered or have trained with, such as the Royal College of Surgeons www.rcseng.ac.uk/

If you find he is not registered - and I wouldn't be at all surprised to find he isn't - report him to the police.

If he tries to contact you after you've told him not to, report him to the police.

If he contacts your family, harrasses you in the street, or threatens you in any way, report him to the police.

And please go to see a proper doctor. Not a friend of the family. An impartial, professional, qualified, NHS doctor. At a proper hospital, with professional standards, accountabilty and complaints procedures.

PunkHedgehog Thu 02-May-13 12:01:14

You should possibly also give some careful thought to finding a new church.

EldritchCleavage Thu 02-May-13 12:11:30

Where is the forgiveness for you? Where is his Christian love for you?

He is clearly using your shared religious background as a means of exerting an abusive level of interference and control over you.

I agree with everyone saying report him.

Dilidali Thu 02-May-13 12:13:51

I am speechless. Please report him to the GMC, RCS and police.

Dahlialover Thu 02-May-13 12:19:06

I have been helping a friend with a difficult situation where they were being 'sucked into' something which was not normal. It is very difficult to see where the line is when you are in the midst of something that seemed perfectly ok and this changes. However, you can now look back and see that the line has been well and truly crossed.

Definitely report him to the GMC and keep the e-mails.

If he is not answerable to them, he is not a proper doctor and should not be practicing as one, and should be reported to the police (I knew of someone who did this. It is serious).

Go to your GP and get referred to a proper doctor.

Meerkatwhiskers Thu 02-May-13 12:26:40

I'm a student nurse. I agree that you should report him to the GMC. Even if he is practicing privately he ill still need to be registered with them.

With regard to religion and medicine, I feel it should be kept separate. It is all very well healthcare professionals and patients having faith but they shouldn't be discussed or involved in treatment in anyway. At the moment at uni i'm being taught that I should be responsible for a patients spiritual needs. I feel very uncomfortable about this. I'm an atheist personally and am in no way qualified to address the spiritual needs of any religion even being bought up catholic. They still have chaplains/religious representatives in hospitals. Don't they do this job?

Meerkatwhiskers Thu 02-May-13 12:29:12

Secondly, there is also the other ethical issue of treating someone that you know. I would not be comfortable with working with someone I know and if there was someone I knew who was a patient on a ward i was working on, I would ensure i was working on a part of the ward that would minimise my contact with them.

stopmovingthefurniture Thu 02-May-13 13:50:12

I've spoken to GMC who agreed that this is something they would need to investigate. I will submit an account of what's happened to them today (via their online complaints section).

quoteunquote Thu 02-May-13 14:22:48

Good luck OP

BoreOfWhabylon Thu 02-May-13 15:17:45

Yes, good luck and well done, OP.

BreastmilkCrucifiesAFabLatte Thu 02-May-13 15:29:22

Well done. Glad the GMC are taking this seriously.

TigerseyeMum Thu 02-May-13 15:37:28

So glad you are reporting him. He is dangerous, no one else should have his madness inflicted upon them in the name of treatment.

I wonder if he is registered, or insured. Technically, from the abuse you have received already, you could make a claim. My worry is this man is a charlatan with no insurance of professional regulation. Which makes it even more important that he is reported and the gmc take action.

Well done for taking the step.

MrsHoarder Thu 02-May-13 15:48:15

Well done OP. Good luck.

sparechange Thu 02-May-13 15:51:50

What. the. actual?

I've got a back condition which means I've had to have a few steriod injections into my back and hips (SI joints) over the years.

I've had 3 different surgeons do this over the years, and their assesment/thorough examination before each treatment has been identical with each one I've had, and it involves nothing more 'invasive' that asking me about my symptoms and getting me to touch my toes.

The only time he has asked about anything remotely personal or family-orientated is to check who my next of kin is and who'll be collecting me after the procedure. And one asked gently what my plans were re future pregnancies as the condition I have is made worse by pregnancy so he wanted to give me guidance on what to look out for.

This sounds SO deeply unethical on SO many levels

Do you think your 'D'M might have put him up to it?
Hours and hours of soul searching for a procedure that is little more invasive than getting a filling is just beyond bizarre

madhairday Thu 02-May-13 15:54:34

Nothing to add really to the excellent advice above, but as a Christian in church leadership I am shocked and appalled by this man's bullying and spiritual abuse. Please, please don't take account of anything he is saying to you. He is so very, very wrong and I am so glad you are reporting it.

To twist the Christian faith in this way is appalling - he is trying to control you. sad Please see your gp, and please know that the majority of christian leaders do not do this kind of manipulative crap. sad

stopmovingthefurniture Thu 02-May-13 16:49:03

Thanks to all who say this isn't representative of Christianity. I know it isn't and don't want anyone reading this to think badly of the christian faith as a result. These men are definitely the exception - DF and DH are the real deal.

justabigdisco Thu 02-May-13 19:27:56

Well done OP and good luck, let us know how it goes!

Melawen Thu 02-May-13 19:35:58

Oh well done for contacting the GMC. Do let us know how it goes. And get yourself to a GOOD doctor!!

aldiwhore Thu 02-May-13 19:40:33

I'm not religious at all so you can understand how this looks more like extremist, cultish (is that a word) behaviour than ANYTHING else.

I assume you ARE Christian and devout, so I kind of understand the absolute confusion and shock.

I do not think this is representitive of Christianity at all, just representitive of craziness.

I also assume you read the bible. I also assume you know fundamentally what feels right and what feels wrong. Read the bible, lean on those who are loving, seek proper medical advice. There are PLENTY of Christian scientists in the world, plenty of Christian doctors... plenty of devout Christians who know you can't fix a broken bone through prayer alone.

You are being made to feel dirty. As though what you feel emotionally is the reason for your physical pain, and the reason this is effective for crazies is because there's truth in some of it, but there's NO TRUTH in this.

Stay strong. You know it's wrong. Good luck with your physical treatment. I also hope you find some comfort from those LESS crackers within your faith and outside of it for the emotional damage that has been done.

infamouspoo Thu 02-May-13 19:58:56

I think you need a different church as well. Totally shocked by what Ive read here.

timidviper Thu 02-May-13 20:13:39

This doctor, your DM and your FIL sound like the worst type of Christians, the sort who are so rigid in their beliefs they are the opposite of what God would want. I am a christian and work in healthcare, believe me I would report any doctor behaving like this in a heartbeat.

Make sure you keep evidence of everything you can for any complaint (including the inappropriate intrusiveness of his consulting) and try to build your live with nicer people in it

EuroShaggleton Thu 02-May-13 20:54:10

This is shocking. I'm glad you are reporting, OP. You need to get away from this harmful man, and he needs to be kept away from others. I would second the suggestions to find a new church.

It also crossed my mind that perhaps the OP's mother had put this man up to this as the OP mentioned that he is close to them.

HairyGrotter Fri 03-May-13 11:27:39

Man alive, some religious people are just fucking nuts!!

Glad you've reported him, his actions/behaviour/approach is deeply unethical, which is ironic given his 'religious' status.

Good for you!

EldritchCleavage Fri 03-May-13 14:03:18

I think he was just getting off on controlling you and bending you to his will. Doesn't sound as though he cared about helping/curing you at all. I'm very sorry you went through this. Good luck with finding better, effective treatment.

PunkHedgehog Fri 03-May-13 16:23:11

Here's what you should expect from the next doctor you see:

A history to be taken. This will ask about your general health and any other medical conditions you have, any medication you are taking, how long you have had the current problem, what triggered it originally, what treatment you've had so far, and what makes it worse/better. It should not ask about your family or relationships. It should definitely not involve any homework, or being told how you do or should feel. It will probably take less than 15 minutes, it will definitely not need repeated visits.

Some physical tests - difficult to be specific without knowing what your condition is, but what you've said this will probably just be a few bends and stretches and maybe being asked to walk a short way.

Depending on the above, you may be sent for an X-ray or other scan.

If the treatment is just the injection you were expecting from the previous doctor, you will probably get that at the end of the first consultation if you aren't waiting for scan results.

The only 'homework' you should get should be physical exercises (if relevant for your condition). These might be set by the ortho specialist but if you need this it's more likely that you'll be referred to a physiotherapist.

If - and this is pretty unlikely - the ortho thinks there is a psychological component to your condition (depression, for example, can cause or be caused by physical pain), you will be referred to someone with the proper training; a pyschologist, CBT therapist etc. An orthopaedic surgeon would not treat this themselves.

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now