If I’m a” sneering” and “ jeering” ‘friend’ you should want shot of me even if you don’t have other friends. (sorry, long)

(32 Posts)
Jamillalliamilli Tue 30-Apr-13 17:04:07

Not say nothing for ages about whatever particular wrong I'm supposed to have done this time, then stack it up to attack me, screaming and shouting, insisting that what you feel about things and how you view them is all that counts, and I should be putting her feelings right, in the manner she feels is right?

Ignore all placatory no blame olive branches, go from screaming to sobbing, then rubbish any possibility of feelings of hurt I might have over being accused of being nasty, be mortally offended and wounded when I finally am nasty and say (calmly) this is being a drama queen, (first time I've actually said it or anything like it)
Then when presented with why all this isn't great, and how both of us feel might be reason to end the friendship, (this is always seen as blackmail by me) get told I "know perfectly well that's not her solution."

I know what the hint is, but clarification results in I 'know she wants to kill herself and that's her solution to me not 'conceding' I'm jeering (I've said if I am, I'm really sorry, but the 'if' is unacceptable) and saying I don't want to be constantly accused of things, then told they can't be discussed as she's now so upset.
I'm upset at being left as the cause of it all, but that seems not to matter.

I'm expected to keep calling as though these things haven't happened and be more careful.

I've asked her why she thinks I should want to continue the friendship when I'm so bad at it.

I'm know I'm not a great friend in that I'm not great with all the validation, ten tons of sympathy for everything stuff, but I do put up with lots, give time, listen a lot, tell her she's a worthwhile person, try and be there, excuse shit thrown at me, and am forgiving in nature.
I know it's not enough in itself and I'm a crap friend in that I'm ill matched to meet her needs, but it's all I really know how to offer, and I've spelt that out.

I'm expected to call daily and this sort of thing happens quite often. She tells me I sound exhausted and unwell. (I am) Most of the time I steer her away before she rips into me, and a lot of the time the screaming centres around me not agreeing with how she sees situations around her and how that makes her feel, rather than direct attacks.

But it seems so often these things are engineered so she has an excuse to shout, scream cry and blame. I know she's not ok, her 'feelings' are huge and out of control, and I suspect she may have BPD, but my life's actually a complete mess and I don't even bother to tell her more than those eight words because it will only make it worse and I don't know if I can cope.

The more difficulties I'm in the more desperate she's likely to be.

I'm too scared to dump her and don't want to hurt her, (everyone else has) but AIBU to say if I cause her to be that unhappy, and she thinks I'm nasty to her, or manipulating her, she should be wanting to dump me?

Jamillalliamilli Tue 30-Apr-13 17:06:21

make that six words I don't bother to say.

EldritchCleavage Tue 30-Apr-13 17:08:04

Sack her off. I had a BPD 'friend' and I had to do it. It was that or hand my life over to her completely. Do not explain (it won't work), just be unavailable. You can't fix her, so why sacrifice yourself to her?

thebody Tue 30-Apr-13 17:10:53

Sorry is this a friendship of a relationship?

Bit confused as its all so dramatic.

You sound like a toxic combination to be honest and wonder how you have the time, energy or strength for all this drama.

You both sound a bit needy.

Jamillalliamilli Tue 30-Apr-13 17:14:08

The body you may well be right, and I don't have the time energy or strength for it, and hate the constant drama. It does feel like a bad relationship not a friendship.

thebody Tue 30-Apr-13 17:21:19

I think you need to put yourself first for once op for your own happiness and sanity to be honest.

mamaggie Tue 30-Apr-13 17:23:19

She sounds toxic - do you really need someone like this in your life?

greenformica Tue 30-Apr-13 17:27:30

Is she a real friend to you? If not move on. Friends are there through thick and thin but it mostly should be a two way thing.

LemonPeculiarJones Tue 30-Apr-13 17:42:39

End the friendship. Do you think you're a bit addicted to it, too? Or just caught up in the justifications and drama that comes from confrontations like these?

This level of hysteria cannot continue. The friendship must end at some point. Probably better sooner rather than later.

She sounds hideously controlling btw. Say what I want you to OR I MIGHT KILL MYSELF!

Fuck off (her, not you).

Honestly there's no point anymore, is there?

Jamillalliamilli Tue 30-Apr-13 17:59:11

No I don't need her, but what I'd really like is for her to recognise I'm human and full of my own faults and make mistakes, and to stop acting like me not doing and saying the right things is so bloody make or break, and just take what I can give, when I can give, or leave me be.

She's had a series of really awful dramas and a breakdown and
I feel awful for her, and when she stopped coping and got into serious trouble, I automatically went to bail her out. I would for any friend who's life collapsed so badly.

But Ive allowed myself to go from trying to be there for her temporarily in an acute situation, to her over depending on me, and getting hurt by me, and lots of bits of my life practically over entwined and tied up with hers, so it's become not as simple as just walk.

I do care what happens to her but we are very different personalities and I know I'm clumsy and blunt and not everyone's cup of tea, and somehow I seem to always find myself wrong footed trying to back away or extricate myself.

LemonPeculiarJones Tue 30-Apr-13 18:03:32

Maybe she'll never recognise what you want her to. You can't control her reactions and thoughts, either. However unreasonable she's being.

You sound so embroiled in it all. I don't think you can help her any more. It's detrimental to you.

Letting go sounds the only positive solution.

ElleMcFearsome Tue 30-Apr-13 18:08:32

This: lots of bits of my life practically over entwined and tied up with hers is where friendship crosses the line into something more complicated. You cannot be the sole source of a person's happiness, you just can't. It's not fair on either of you.

Threatening to kill yourself if someone doesn't fall in line with what you want is never an acceptable solution. Seems to me your friends requires professional intervention - if you want to help her (not that you are under obligation to in any way, shape or form) that's what you need to arrange.

I don't think this is about whether you are or aren't someone's cup of tea. This is a friendship that needs to be re-defined for the sake of your sanity. if re-defining it isn't possible, then you may well be faced with the only other alternative - to end the friendship.

Jamillalliamilli Tue 30-Apr-13 18:12:45

I don't think I'm addicted to it, the more she does it the more I want out, but I can see there's something wrong with me that I got in this situation in the first place. It's not normal.

She goes through cycles of behaving well enough for me to start feeling guilty about trying to push her away.

I'm very bad at letting people down and really scared of me being the reason she actually did kill herself. (two people close to her already have and I know she may, but I don't want to be the cause.)

I am 'embroiled', and I want to not be, and a lot of the time I've thought all of this is my fault and I owe her to let her down gently.

Madlizzy Tue 30-Apr-13 18:13:10

She's an emotional vampire, and she won't rest until she's sucked every ounce of lifeblood out of you. You owe her nothing. Dump her, she's responsible for her feelings, not you.

Mumsyblouse Tue 30-Apr-13 18:16:17

I think it will have to be as simple as 'just walk' if you want to have other friends or even a relationship, this is suffocating and really inappropriate, for her and you. This is a toxic relationship, doesn't really matter that you are 'only' friends, it's so unpleasant it's like a bad marriage anyway!

In this situation, I don't think with a very over-dramatic drama queen you will be able to just cut back time or phone calls with her, I would personally say you've been reflecting on it and you can't continue your present friendship. You are NOT responsible for her at all, I bet she doesn't have a queue of other friends forming at the door though to take on all this hysteria.

I do also think you have to recognise your own part in sustaining the drama, what's a drama without an audience and bit player, and if you aren't prepared to walk away you will just contine to live it.

ImTooHecsyForYourParty Tue 30-Apr-13 18:25:05

Sounds to me like you're her punching bag.

I fail to see any reason why you should continue to take that.

You aren't actually doing her any favours by continuing to allow her to treat you this way.

She is responsible for her own actions. You won't be responsible for any choice she decided to make.

LemonPeculiarJones Tue 30-Apr-13 18:35:03

Exactly. If she kills herself, it won't be your fault. It will be her choice.

She is emotionally blackmailing you. It's so unhealthy.

Do you think you might have codependent qualities? I do/did, which is something I've recognised over the past few years. I get hooked into others need, I feel responsible, it's like I can't turn away, am not allowed to....also there's an element of my self-worth caught up in wanting to be ever-supportive...

I'm not like that any more and all the relationships I had that turned on that axis for me are now over phew

It's so much better.

Jamillalliamilli Tue 30-Apr-13 18:36:49

Elle, that's exactly what I've tried to do, support her in the initial collapse practically and then get her professional help and intervention and money to live on. I managed to get her some of both, but it’s not anything like enough and it hardly touches the sides. She’s scuppered a lot of what she was entitled to through refusing to do what she should have, she can’t fix it, and I'm pretty sure neither can I.

Mumsy I know I am sustaining what I'd call the 'created' dramas, ie the accusations etc, I've tried really hard not to and seen they will happen whichever way I do or don't do things.

Thank you for listening to me, I feel very stupid for my part in it all and letting it get so out of hand, and hugely disloyal for posting it.

I know I'm not helping her, I wish she could recognise that. I'm scared everything I do in whatever direction is wrong.

Most days she re enforces my difficulty in extricating myself by being very upset about how everyone's gone.

ImTooHecsyForYourParty Tue 30-Apr-13 18:47:44

There comes a point when you have to walk away from someone before your own mental health suffers.

You will never be able to please this woman, it seems like for whatever reason, she has chosen to make you the bad guy in her life.

You do not have to accept that. You are choosing to. I don't know why. Do you?

Just sounds like your friend needs some professional help and perhaps they can help you too and give advice on how to deal with this situation.

Not quite sure where you can go for this help, maybe try some mental health charities and see what they say?
I'm sure if you give it a quick google you can find a local one or one with a help line who can advise you where to go from here.

Failing that, your local SS vulnerable adults department may be able to direct you to services.

However, you are important as well and you can't fix everything. What you want, your feelings and perspectives are just as relevant as those of anyone else. Please remember that.

Jamillalliamilli Tue 30-Apr-13 19:12:45

Lemon I don't know. I've wondered and looked into that.

I'm naturally independent, and tend to go off on my own, and not really expect much from others and am not seen as a particularly supportive person, unless you want a practical favour, in which case I'm seen as good to go to, which makes it all the more stupid.

I once took advantage of a situation so I didn't have to talk to her for a week, I had no problem 'letting go', and was determined to lessen her dependance, but when I got back she was champing at the bit and I got sucked back in and blew it, so maybe I am. Think some more googling's in order.

Hecsy not really, other than she has ASD and so does my D/S and both of them have great difficulty having friends. I think she makes me the bad guy because someone has to be the bad guy, and I'm the only someone left, but she does know her behaviour is way past what a friendship can be expected to withstand, and why, so no I don't really know why I've let this happen.

Whole I have done that, SS unhelpfully wrote me up as being her advocate, did an assesment and said her IQ is to high for one team, and her needs don't meet criteria of the other. Speaking to Mh charities the general opinion is I should carry on and encourage her to talk to them. She does, but doesn't follow through.The local mh team was get her animals taken away, (as it's one of the things stopping me walking away) which will result in her harming herself or someone else, then I can have her sectioned. That I really can't and wouldn't do.

ImTooHecsyForYourParty Tue 30-Apr-13 19:29:38

My kids both have autism and I am on the spectrum myself. Cold day in hell before I let anyone walk over me like you describe. You don't deserve to be treated badly

Autism isn't an excuse for treating someone like shit. Don't let your own health and well being suffer for this woman.

If she has ASD it is even MORE of a reason to not allow bad behaviour. If she struggles with social interaction and appropriate behaviour, then tolerating unacceptable behaviour is one of the most unhelpful things you can do.

You aren't being horrible to say that you've had enough of being her whipping boy and you're walking away now.

Jamillalliamilli Tue 30-Apr-13 20:36:36

Hecsy, she doesn't always know what appropriate behaviour for a given situation might be on the subtler levels, but she's intelligent and does know what most seriously inappropriate behaviour is, certainly at this level of screaming and shouting and demanding friendship off someone while abusing it, and she’s been told a lot. (Probably my mistake to keep telling her instead of walking)

She knows about being treated badly by others, she has been.

I took a lot of it in the beginning because she was having a set of dramas that would make all of us lose the plot, and maybe that's where I blurred what's acceptable, but I have repeatedly objected since and somehow it's always my own fault.

I've also accepted that she has a different understanding of some cause and effect situations and it causes her a lot of distress when her questions are answered with actually she needs to do something about a nuisance she's causing, that's at the root of why a neighbour’s doing something she's upset about, not her interpretation of it, but she's been told repeatedly that she can either accept my answer or ignore it, but not try and keep trying to make me agree with her that she’s his victim and coming out with dramatic threats and solutions rather than just fix it so she’s ‘in the right’, and she can't treat me or others badly and expect everyone to put up with it.

I am to blame for allowing it all to get out of hand, and letting myself get tied up in some things that's going to make it difficult to just walk off, but I'm not to blame for her behaviour towards me, and if I was she should be getting shot of me, not haranguing me, and that's what I need to take better notice of.

There's not an issue of she doesn't know that what she's doing would logically wreck any friendship, and there is an issue of something very wrong with me for letting this happen to myself.

MrsMook Tue 30-Apr-13 20:43:31

Sometimes you do have to break away completely for your own well being. My best friend at school was consumed by anorexia, OCD and depression. I always hoped I could help her through and was worried about what would happen if I upset her- she could be morbid and had done silly cry for help acts, attention seeking rather than seriously dangerous, but still worrying. She was an expert at guilt trips and expecting others to pull her along through life. She could also be very sweet, but over time the demands of friendship became too intense. The friendship broke up in a huge row in an end of school holiday abroard as she couldn't handle me having friends with other people and not always placing my loyalty with her first. A truce was reached and we maintained some friendship through the frst year of university but that was the true ending of it. I'd like to know how she is in life, but I've been completely cut off- I suspect I'm blocked from her on FB. I wish her well and hope she has/ will emerge from the problems she had as a teenager.

It was a lesson that you can't solve other peoples' problems. You can help guide them, but that's useless if they don't have the resolve to deal with them. Sometimes the friendship ceases to be about mutal support and the only healthy thing left to do is to end iit before you get dragged down to their level.

LemonPeculiarJones Tue 30-Apr-13 21:56:08

OP, out of interest, what are your other friendships like? Have you ever felt this roped in emotionally before with a relationship - in a negative sense, I mean?

Jamillalliamilli Wed 01-May-13 00:19:05

I didn’t used to, but I had different types of friends. I was very fit and active and my old friends and I mainly called each other to meet up, catch up and have fun, and alleviate the crap side of life when necessary, but mainly by escaping it for a bit.
But most of my old friends have gone or emigrated, some have drifted away.

I’m now in a wheelchair, which combined with kids with SEN’s has isolated me, and potential friendships are now very limited to people who have difficult lives and want support, not to do things to enjoy life, share interests, or escape it. I’ve tried to change to meet them halfway, but it’s not really working out.
I feel very shallow saying that, but it’s how I feel, and yes I feel most want to ‘rope me in’ not join forces to enhance life and enjoy it, but I don't know how much is me, and how much them.

EldritchCleavage Wed 01-May-13 12:01:06

In my case, my therapist warned me that the friendship with my BPD friend would very likely take a particular course, and it did (very intense at the beginning, almost like a wooing phase, becoming very involved in each other's lives very quickly, then a stage of increasing demands for attention, approval, support, reassurance, over-stepping normal boundaries, and finally persecution). I bailed at stage 2.

The thing is, a lot of this situation with your friend may just be inevitable, because her attachments always play out like this, the consequence of her inability to make and sustain healthy relationships. If your role, so far as she is concerned, has shifted to being the whipping-boy, then there you will stay regardless of what you do. In that position, it is quite possible you just won't be able to help her.

Do you think if you did cut contact, it would free you (practically ad emotionally) to find better more fun friendships elsewhere? She must take up an awful lot of your time and energy.

I have a friend who was the same. He was finally diagnosed as having BPD amongst other things.

Please continue to support her. If she is ill she doesnt mean the things she says.

Jamillalliamilli Wed 01-May-13 16:14:37

Something positive has come out of me ranting here. I’ve managed to say I’m putting boundaries into all my friendships because I feel I have a problem with this.

We are financially involved which was very stupid of me, and I’m looking into how to loosen that without damage.

She’s told me that the issue isn’t that I need to concede that I’ve been nasty for her to feel all right, it’s that she knows this is what happened and she doesn’t care if I’ve been nasty or not, she cares that I don’t challenge her version of events as that’s challenging her reality, and makes her feel she’s going mad, and if she can’t trust her reality then she’d rather not be alive.

I just said that I’m very sorry that’s how it all feels for her, but the end result is I must prioritise her feelings over mine or bad things will happen, and that’s not a healthy friendship.

I’m happy to try and have a healthy friendship with her but it requires us to both to step back and get some boundaries in, and she needs to talk to a counsellor about ways to resolve difficulties that don’t harm her or her friendships, and it’s not appropriate for me to be suggesting them and I’ve been wrong to be doing that, and been firm about it.

Eldritch she was one half of a couple and I was friends with them both, and it all progressed quite steadily, until she had something horrible happen, which is when involvement happened very quickly, then things got very weird. But most of her previous friendships ended acrimoniously, but the awful things that genuinely happened, and what’s felt like a roller coaster ever since, meant I didn’t take note of it. I should have.

Re finding new friendships I’m coming to the conclusion that my character and lifestyle that once attracted one type of friends, now minus the lifestyle, attracts a very different kind, and I need to take a harder look at myself.

Fleur I can see she’s ill. sad I’m going to see if it’s possible to remain supportive to her, but change how. If she can cope with that then good, if she can’t then hopefully I can let her down reasonably gently.
Did your friend sort out the BPD and did the friendship ever go back to normal?

Unfortunately not. He killed himself in February. Im still dealing with the guilt of not always running to him.

Just be the best friend you can, but dont make yourself ill over it.

Unfortunately not. He killed himself in February. Im still dealing with the guilt of not always running to him.

Just be the best friend you can, but dont make yourself ill over it.

somewhereaclockisticking Thu 02-May-13 15:58:37

she will never see someone else's view and that is why everyone has abandoned her. She is too exhausting for them and then when they have problems she feels in danger of HER needs not being met because THEIR attention is somewhere else (on themselves). You will never ever get someone like that to change so you either accept everything is about her or you try and stay clear. You don't want to be one of those people who give up or abandon her but I don't think you really have much choice unless you think in the end that you can handle all the accusations she throws at you over and over again. Sometimes we have these types of people in our families so we have no choice but to deal with them but when it's a choosen "friend".........

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