Pre-school and painting without protection. AIBU?

(70 Posts)

Going to go on MN consensus with this one, because i cant decide if i'm being unreasonable to be annoyed, and if i should say something or not.

DD attends Pre-school attached to Primary. School Uniform is optional.

I choose not to put DD in uniform for various reasons, some personal, some practical - its more expensive to replace if it gets ruined.

Sent DD in today, and when i picked her up, she was COVERED in black paint, it was all over her jumper.. its quite obvious she's been allowed to paint without using an apron. Its stained, and i've washed it 3 times today, stuff isnt coming out!

Now.. my DS attended reception last year, the preschool and reception share an art area, and i know the rules are they aren't supposed to touch the paints without an apron.

AIBU to complain about the state of her clothes? She's only had that jumper a few weeks, and while it was bought for nursery, i didnt expect it to get ruined with black paint.. the usual mud and pen/ink/food she comes home covered in washes out! also annoyed because they didnt say anything, just handed her to me with her coat on and zipped up so i didnt discover it until we got home.

I think i'd be even more peeved if it had been one of the expensive uniform jumpers/t-shirts.

I know theres nothing the school can do now, its done, not like i'm about to ask them to cough up the six quid to replace it... but its the principal iyswim?

greenformica Mon 29-Apr-13 17:58:45

I think preschool kids are best wearing scruffy clothes to mess around in. Madness to suggest uniform wearing.

tiredteddy Mon 29-Apr-13 18:02:57

IIRC the paint used in schools says soak in cold water. Then wash. I might be wrong but that what I remember on the stuff in the school I taught at then it came out fine. Might help in the future?

K8eee Mon 29-Apr-13 18:11:05

What were they letting her use..?!?! Tar?! I remember in nursery we had powder paint mixed with water and did so all through primary so it always washed out. Sounds like acrylic paint to me which if you're lucky will come out with a decent stain remover. YADNBU! I would be fuming and agree with the other mnetters with the uniform thing. Far too pricey!

AuntieStella Mon 29-Apr-13 18:14:57

I think it might be worth asking how on earth she got quite so filthy. And ask if would help if you supplied something like an old shirt of DH which she could wear for painting activities in future. This might however news of the ready availability of aprons/coveralls, and DD's devious escapade.

IneedAsockamnesty Mon 29-Apr-13 18:16:00

Yanbu.

CloudsAndTrees Mon 29-Apr-13 18:19:11

YABU to complain about it. Like you said, there is nothing that can be done now and they already have a rule that aprons should be worn so it's not like there is anything to be achieved by a complaint. They are already doing what needs to be done.

These things happen sometimes. Maybe your dd got hold of the paint while something else was going on that was more worthy of the staffs attention than a child without an apron.

Flisspaps Mon 29-Apr-13 18:19:39

It wouldn't bother me. I'd expect nursery clothes to get ruined.

CuppaSarah Mon 29-Apr-13 18:23:40

If you want to mention it to the staff but don't want to be negative or awkward. Try telling them you noticed the paint wouldn't come out the jumper and if they pop some washing up liquid in the paint it stops it staining. That way you let them know they've let her stain her clothes, but you don't look to be moaning

newfavouritething Mon 29-Apr-13 18:26:02

YABU - it's paint at pre-school, forget about it be glad that she's enjoying herself :-)

lljkk Mon 29-Apr-13 18:26:29

do mention it to staff, most paints don't stain most fabrics, but it's a bit of a gamble no matter what you do.

I can't imagine they don't have a policy about aprons must be worn, but doesn't mean OP's DD remembered to put on apron first or didn't find another creative way to get paint anywhere.

TiggyD Mon 29-Apr-13 18:26:51

Black and red powder paint is harder to get out than the other colours.

differentkindofpenguin Mon 29-Apr-13 18:32:42

Ruined jumper wouldn't bother me, but they should have mentioned it when you picked her up! They sound really immature! An explanation and an apology would have gone a long way.

I wouldn't have complained but would have mentioned it!

5318008 Mon 29-Apr-13 18:34:56

The staff can ask the child if they would like to wear an apron but how could they force one on if the child said no thank you.

The EYFS is very strong on children choosing, self-determination etc.

I do see that it's terribly annoying but your child cannot be forced to wear a protective apron for messy play.

sparkle12mar08 Mon 29-Apr-13 18:37:00

The child most certainly can be forced to wear an apron if they want to do messy play, otherwise they don't do it! It's not rocket science...

Remotecontrolduck Mon 29-Apr-13 18:37:47

YANBU, there's getting messy, then just pointlessly destroying clothes when there's no need, an apron could have been worn. It wont kill them to make sure clothes are covered

I'm baffled by the uniform for pre school that seems to be everywhere now though, why on earth?

5318008 Mon 29-Apr-13 18:48:56

ummm NO no forcing, ever.

The child chooses, do you see? They can chose to wear an apron or not, they can be encouraged to, but the activity should not be precluded if the child doesn't want to wear an apron.

Are you an early years practitioner? HOPE NOT

MerylStrop Mon 29-Apr-13 18:51:07

yabu sorry que sera sera

sparkle12mar08 Mon 29-Apr-13 18:51:43

I'm not a practitioner, no, I'm a parent that gets utterly fucked of with the ridiculous notion that children should be allowed to choose whatever they want all the time - painting should be absolutely precluded if the child won't wear an apron - I'd support that totally as a parent!

5318008 Mon 29-Apr-13 18:57:24

But it's denying a child the opportunity to express themselves, to explore texture, make marks maybe with meaning, to become proficient, to achieve through a process - do you see how insisting on an apron can limit that child's experience?

LimitedEditionLady Mon 29-Apr-13 19:03:06

Well i think yeah id be annoyed but i.know to be expecting them to ruin some clothes wherever they are.maybe she didnt want the apron and itd be preferable to put one on the child but i wouldnt make a child upset and not let them join in because of it.sometimes kids have moody days doesnt mean their parents let them get away with everything.what an antiquated way of thinking.pick your battles.you really think a nursery worker wants to get a child hysterical over an apron?

LimitedEditionLady Mon 29-Apr-13 19:07:39

Sorry OP forgot to answer properly.id just say at nursery "that black paint did nt wash out you know?how would you get it out?"then theyll know for future

TiggyD Mon 29-Apr-13 19:08:58

Children have to wear aprons when painting. I have never heard a nursery worker say otherwise.

LimitedEditionLady Mon 29-Apr-13 19:11:38

im not saying that a nursery worker wouldnt say wear an apron

AngiBolen Mon 29-Apr-13 19:11:47

Even with an apron, paint can get on clothes, and standard school paint does not always wash out.

I never sent my DC to nursery with clothes I would be bothered about getting ruined. And who sees them at nusrery anyway, apart from the staff and other small children.

Why did you send her to playschool in a new jumper? Our playschool has uniform jumpers so they don't get their home clothes dirty.

thebody Mon 29-Apr-13 19:14:14

Hi I work in early years. If our children won't put on an apron then they don't paint. Simple as.

She may have picked up the brush and painted herself before staff could intervene. It happens.

Don't dress to impress for nursery but paints used in schools should wash out.

Not sure where this early years myths come from. Children are allowed to choose the activities they do but there are rules.

My children would perhaps like to use the class scissors but I don't let them as I am the adult and they are the child who can't always have what they want!!

Health and safety and safeguarding trumps free choice and will in any sensible early years setting.

Cloverer Mon 29-Apr-13 19:14:15

Strange the paint won't wash out.

I'm sure that the rule is aprons for painting, but there is probably only 2 or 3 adults watching a whole class of 3 and 4 year olds so easy for one child to get overlooked.

redwellybluewelly Mon 29-Apr-13 19:19:53

YANBU

my DD (2.8) attends nursery although I think she is younger than your DD, I do put her in heavy duty washable clothes which aren't as expensive but I get so annoyed by them becoming almost wantonly dirty. My main bugbear is mealtimes where they don't wear bibs! Curry doesn't shift easily although most paints will wash out when you use cold water and fairy liquid.

Maybe ask them what the policy is for painting saying that you've had issues getting some of the paint out and you wonder if they even use aprons?

Cloverer Mon 29-Apr-13 19:34:41

I'd be surprised to see bibs on over 2s!

MiaowTheCat Mon 29-Apr-13 19:37:53

Black paint is a bastard to get out compared to the other colours - although it all SHOULD be washable, it's one of those that's just more nightmarish than others (flashbacks to a cover lesson I was left that had the kids painting something black so it was going to dry before their normal teacher could use it as the base for some artwork... we were scrubbing the plastic table protector cloths for a good hour to get the blooming colour off).

I'd ask what happened - I suspect she jumped in and got good and dirty in the few seconds before a staff member could stop her to remind her to put an apron on to be honest - which however well staffed, supervised and resourced DOES happen unfortunately.

sparkle12mar08 Mon 29-Apr-13 19:38:14

Don't be so ridiculous 5318008! I've never heard such pathetic tommy rot! Denying them the opportunity and limiting their experience is exactly what should happen if they choose to disobey a very, very simple rule. Honestly I despair...

5318008 Mon 29-Apr-13 19:40:38

you despair because why?

TiggyD Mon 29-Apr-13 19:45:25

Because it's that idea that children can do whatever they want at all times and the consequences don't matter and there are no boundaries is what the rest of us are trying constantly to fight against.

You work in childcare? How?!

sparkle12mar08 Mon 29-Apr-13 19:47:18

Because life is full of rules, big ones and small ones, and if policy makers and practitionaers fall for this kind of namby pamby "ooh don't stifle the little ones" thinking on a daily basis it's leading to a generation of children who have difficulty accepting social norms and niceties which are there for their own good. It's almost the opposite of the whole "elf & safety gorn mad" debate - "ooh lets all express ourselves!" with no thought for the consequences. Urgh.

Pozzled Mon 29-Apr-13 19:48:04

Nonsense to suggest that in the EYFS children's choice is more important than rules! I can think of many things that children might choose to do, which would not be allowed!

5318008 Mon 29-Apr-13 19:49:17

Who is saying there are no boundaries, that consequences don't matter?Not me; I'm saying why let the washing pile put you off your child having a good time painting

sparkle12mar08 Mon 29-Apr-13 19:49:56

So you come and bloody do it then!

sparkle12mar08 Mon 29-Apr-13 19:50:57

Or more to the point - you pay the clothes bills for all the parents whose children's clothes you ruin! Silly woman.

5318008 Mon 29-Apr-13 19:51:51

grin

TiggyD Mon 29-Apr-13 19:55:47

Have a good time painting but take sensible, non bonkers precautions such as wearing an apron. If they say no apron, say no painting.

After 20 years of working in nurseries I have never encountered somebody talking like Ms 8008.

5madthings Mon 29-Apr-13 19:57:15

Yanbu and i have the same complaint today except ds4 is in reception and he has come home with his school.jumper and polo shirt COVERED in paint. Dark colours again, i may get it out of the jumper but not a hope in hell.of getting the white polo shirt stain free, it is siaking at the moment...

And i am not fussy about mess, i have four boys and a toddler and i expect them.to get dirty but they should wear an apron to at least offer their clothes some protection. A bit of paint of clothes i get but ds4 has a jumper and polo shirt covered. Looks like someone has painted him and then he took his jumper off and painted him again!! the school logo sweatshirts can only be bought from one supplier at an expensive price as well.

sparkle12mar08 Mon 29-Apr-13 20:00:03

But don't worry about the ironing - I have ironed in over 15 years, I'm not that fussy, honestly...

Beatrixpotty Mon 29-Apr-13 20:00:04

When mine started pre-school we were advised not to put them in nice clothes if they chose not to wear uniform because of paint,gluvetc.So personally,I wouldn't complain because they warned me.Also they have a staff:child ratio of about 1:7 so I wouldn't expect them to be on top of a child running off to paint with no apron.

sparkle12mar08 Mon 29-Apr-13 20:00:56

Haven't ironed. Talking about ruining the point...

Beatrixpotty Mon 29-Apr-13 20:01:29

When mine started pre-school we were advised not to put them in nice clothes if they chose not to wear uniform because of paint,glue etc.So personally,I wouldn't complain because they warned me.Also they have a staff:child ratio of about 1:7 so I wouldn't expect them to be on top of a child running off to paint with no apron.

TiggyD Mon 29-Apr-13 20:02:32

It is quite easy for children to get painty. If they stand near the paint and a child with a brush get distracted for instance. Or they get an itch when they're holding a brush and scratch themselves with the hand that's also holding the brush. Or they take the apron off because they've finished painted but then they try to put the painting to dry. Or they put a painty apron on inside out. Or they have a complete idiot looking after them. Or they brush against something that another child has accidently got paint on. etc.

Startail Mon 29-Apr-13 20:11:25

YANBU
But all our preschool ever gave me was a sarcastic answer about not sending DD in decent clothes. At 3 she only had decent clothes, DCs grow out of stuff before it looks scruffy.

Anyhow, no one went to nursery in stairs scruffy clothes so that really was a nonstarter.

Startail Mon 29-Apr-13 20:12:12

Stained (no stairs in nursery)

thebody Mon 29-Apr-13 20:24:20

Sensible settings have sensible rules.

There is nothing in the EYFS to suggest its fine to paint without aprons or for children to be allowed to choose whatever the flying fuck they like to do and be allowed to. It's nonsense.

HOWEVER unless you have ever worked in a setting or early years you have no concept if how some children can make a mess of themselves in a freakin bubble.

Little children cannot be all watched all of the time by staff and its quite possible for one to grab the paint brush and paint another before you can jump in.

When there's a class of 30 4 year olds its not easy.

MiaowTheCat Mon 29-Apr-13 20:26:35

I can also manage to cover MYSELF with paint from the opposite end of an empty nursery. It's quite an impressive skill, although painful on the laundry bill.

sparkle12mar08 Mon 29-Apr-13 20:28:59

I've absolutely no problem with any of the scenarios described above, where children get accidentally messy, not at all. But the idea that it's okay to specifically organise a messy play activity like painting, without basic coveralls, or to suggest that it's 'stifling a childs creativity' to ask them wear an apron once it's noticed they're playing with paint baffles me.

There is getting dirty and messy, and there is getting STAINED, lol grin

I'm not completely oblivious to the mess they get into, i've worked with nursery aged kids myself as a nursery assistant, so i do know that they get messy. I can deal with the mud from outdoor school. I can deal with the food, the milk, the pen.. i can deal (irritably) with the fact that she's often handed back to me soaked to the elbows in the water from the play table and got sand in unmentionable places or has glitter all in her hair from where her friends have tipped it on her head (that was fun!). I can deal with the results of toileting accidents and sicky incidents.

But this was black paint, and it wasnt just a little bit, it was over her whole front like she'd belly flopped onto a fresh painting.

As i said, i'd be more annoyed had it been uniform the prices they charge for it.. as it is, this will be easy enough to replace.. i think i'm more annoyed they didnt say anything and let me discover the mess for myself.

I likely wont say anything directly, i might ask if they have any tips for washing it out though!

i think i'm in shock anyway.. my older DS HATED getting messy, he used to come home pristine.

This one looks like she's been dragged through a hedge and done a round of tough mudder most days... she's the kind of child who you can leave in a white washed room and come back 30 seconds later and be filthy from head to toe.

TheChaoGoesMu Mon 29-Apr-13 20:35:05

YANBU. No apron, no painting. Simple as that really. Its great for them to express themselves, as long as its within boundaries. I'd have a word with the pre school and ask why an apron wasn't used.

newfavouritething Mon 29-Apr-13 20:35:31

Maybe she belly flopped onto a fresh painting?

Elesbe Mon 29-Apr-13 20:36:00

Sad to say but I don't think there is anything you can do to remove this stain. I used to hate using black paint with my pupils as I knew I would have grey hands for quite a few days!

MadCap Mon 29-Apr-13 20:36:35

Yabu, I get fucked off with the parents who moan at the preschool my dcs attend when the kids come out messy. My kids only wear stuff they've nearly grown out of or stuff that's from Primarni who cares about a tshirt that's less than 2 quid My two love messy play and I worry the moaners will cause the school to limit it.

sparkle12mar08 Mon 29-Apr-13 20:40:03

People who don't have an extra £2 that week might well care about a t-shirt that costs £2, MadCap. That's a reality for a number of parents out there today.

Sirzy Mon 29-Apr-13 20:40:11

Kids get covered in paint and food, its part of being a child. The fact the nursery was using paint which didn't wash out would piss me off but other than that it wouldn't bother me.

WeAreSix Mon 29-Apr-13 20:44:09

My DD2 used to come out looking like she'd been through a sandy, glittery, rainbow painted hedge backwards.

I gave up in the end and sent her to nursery in the stained (but clean) clothes. I had to bath her after nursery most days...

jamdonut Mon 29-Apr-13 20:46:02

Just wondering...sometimes when aprons are being shared, they are already really covered in paint, then the children put them on the wrong way round, before you realise it, and then the paint gets all over the clothes by accident.

Black poster paint is a bugger...it is hard to mix,if using the powdered variety, and can often take a couple of washes before it comes out properly. I know this from bitter experience with my own clothes,when supervising painting tables.
I wonder if they had put PVA glue in the paint for any reason. That also makes it a bit more difficult to wash out on the first attempt.

A good plan is to put a couple of spots of washing up liquid in poster paint when mixing it up...it washes out of paint pots so much better, and, presumably clothes.

Cloverer Mon 29-Apr-13 20:46:14

As a one off, I wouldn't mention getting covered in paint. Would you really go in and ask why an apron wasn't used? I mean surely you can use your imagination?

jamdonut Mon 29-Apr-13 20:54:49

On a side note, there are so many children in school who can't bear even slightly mucky hands and want to continually clean them whilst in the middle of art/craft projects. There are also an amazing amount of children who have no scissors skills, because their parents "won't let" them use them at home. There is also a worrying amount of children who say they have no coloured pens or pencils or paints at home, because their parents won't let them have them because their younger siblings might take them and draw on the walls (or something)!! This is absolutely true. I find it incredible.

Why incredible?

we didnt have pens at home, we did have crayons, but paints and pens were offlimits... DS had picasso leanings and after an incident where in 5 minutes of DH being on the phone and distracted he managed to draw over the entire length of the carpet several times, the leather sofas, most of the toys AND baby dd, pens were removed and never returned.

One episode of DH having to scrub (thankfully washable) marker pen off my entire double length living room was one episode too many.

painting is permitted under supervision, as is gluing and sticking. DD isnt allowed pens either, even though she only draws on herself!

Cloverer Mon 29-Apr-13 21:16:50

To be honest, if your kids are the types to draw and paint all over themselves then they are also likely to ignore the apron rule!

lol, at nursery maybe, but dd even insists on wearing her pinny to play with the playdoh at home!

Sirzy Mon 29-Apr-13 21:19:37

I find it quite sad that parents feel like that Jamdonut, but I know they do. I can understand limiting painting to when you can deal with the mess but things like colouring should be available and encouraged surely?

On the mess though my nephew went through a stage where he hated being messy no matter how much my sister tried to persuade him that it was fine!

CSIJanner Mon 29-Apr-13 22:24:03

YANBU - LO2 was supposed to do painting at nursery last week but refused the pinny so didn't as in the ladies words, "the black paint always stains...

thermalsinapril Mon 29-Apr-13 23:30:00

You could ask them "what sort of apron was she wearing today?" and see what they say.

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now