Please, I NEED to know if IABU before I take a stand with my in-laws.(300 Posts)
I have posted about this once before several months ago but am waffling
..I will try to be as brief as possible:
My in-laws sold their house about 3 years ago (Canada). They spend about 6 months of the year snow-birding in the US where they own a trailer in a seniors community. The other 6 months they have been splitting their time with various family here in my city and in another province. They cannot stay in the US more than 6 months.
They never used to stay with us but last August they wanted to use our basement for 2 weeks. It morphed into 3 months due to medical appointments (my MIL has MS and my FIL had a minor surgery). They liked our basement and asked if when they come to our city in the future if they can stay with us again. I gather the step-sisters would move the in-laws between their houses if they had other guests which in-laws did not like. The conversation was in passing it would hardly count as a conversation nothing formal. I said it was fine, expecting them to only be around 2-3 weeks here and there.
We asked them to pay us $300 a month last Sept and Oct as they were costing us a fortune in food, water and electric they indicated nobody else makes them pay to stay with them and seemed to think $300 steep but agreed.
They started to refer to themselves as living with us and it became clear they intended to be around for much longer than I anticipated. The basement is not self-contained. They use our kitchen and come up to visit. For my taste there is a lack of space and privacy. I found their visit Aug-Oct much too long. I was unhappy and very pregnant. They were crawling all over my very last nerve and it was clear to everyone.
DH and I bickered about their presence. I believe I was very diplomatic about it but my feelings were quite clear. He simply did not see my point of view. If it were up to him they would live with us forever as one big happy family. He spoke to them but basically made it worse told them I was hormonal and stressed .to wait and see how it goes on their next visit that I might enjoy their help while on maternity leave with a toddler and new baby.
While they were gone DH and I spoke about this openly with each other and with DHs sister who was entirely on my side. I thought he finally could see my point of view and that everything was settled that he would speak to them about their long-term living arrangements when they returned.
Now they are back. They have been here almost 2 weeks. This year they intend to stay with us for a total of about 4 months half of April, all of May, then Aug-mid October. They are trying to stay in the basement (and avoid me) a bit more. I am trying to be more pleasant and sociable, though Im afraid I am forever to be thought of as their uptight DIL. I am home on maternity leave so we are around one another a good deal. Its going fine but my feelings remain the same.
They have changed their drivers licenses and insurance to our house. They have bought a mini fridge for the basement today they advised they want to chip in with us for a new guest room mattress (as if !!). Ive had yet another argument with DH about it he says he spoke to them and they are going to try to maintain this snow-birding thing for another few years and will try to stay at ours for only 2.5-3ish months a year. I gather they were very vague. I told DH he needs to pin them down on the specifics and that I personally think anything over a month is not reasonable 2 at the absolute maximum. I told him I need a more specific plan from them. DH thinks this is all fine no problem. I am the unreasonable one these are his parents after all.
I find them utterly cheeky. If they really live with us then they should offer a substantial financial contribution (it costs us 2000+bills+food to live in this house every month). They should be buying groceries and splitting housework, cooking and maintenance when they are here. As I see it, they dont want the financial or maintenance responsibility of a house/rental and are just using us to get around paying what the majority of all adults pay living expenses. I totally resent it. I dont think I should have to tell two grown adults that they are overstaying their welcome FFS.
What is too long I guess is the question ? Am I over-reacting here would all of you welcome family to stay for months at a time with no end in sight? One month? Two? How about Three months? Where should I draw the line?
Before I put my foot down please let me know AIBU?
God that is soooo long. I tried really to keep it readable
You are definitely not being unreasonable. I would go round the bend in your situation, as much as I love my in-laws.
I'd tell them to book a hotel.
What is snow birding?
They sound totally unreasonable
for MONTHS.. YANBU sheesh they should be paying their way. This isn't a visit really, they should be renting the room and paying whatever the going rate is.
Yanbu they need to pay. I think you've been very generous anyone staying more than a night or two makes me feel stabby.
In sure you've posted about this before- this sounds familiar. Yanbu- I would want to change the locks by now! Interesting that your sil agrees with you; are they considered cim
I think you're a saint personally, but then I won't let my IL stay at mine for anymore than 3night plus the agreement is that DH takes time off work so I am not responsible for entertaining them (lots of little issues that built into a big problem!).
Whatever length of time you agree, your IL should definitely be paying their way a bit. If you had invites them for a week or so, then I wouldn't expect them to pay bills per se, just contribute to food; but the fact they are staying long enough for you to notice am increase in utility bills means they should definitely be paying their way.
They sold their house and now expect to live with you for a quarter of the year? Insane. Yanbu. I would be going mad
oh fuck, they are back?
I could not live like that.
Are they considered complete freeloaders by the family?? (was what I meant to say!)
Not them again! I do not think you can trust your husband to have a talk with them. Do it together.
You have been through all this before! Nothing was settled and now it is worse.
Agree you are definitely NBU.
If you are going to share your home with anyone - relations or not - then it needs to be on a very clear footing agreed with everyone in advance, and, if the homeowner isn't keen (or one of the homeowners) then it should never happen. If you can't be relaxed and comfortable in your own home, then when/ where can you be?
Having family you find a bit intrusive to stay for 3 or 4 days once or twice a year is something I think people should probably put up with , for their partner's sake, but this is just taking a liberty.
They've got a nerve! Staying for months and not paying for food. I'd be livid.
If they start to pay up or help with maintainance/chores then they will start to feel entitled to stay.
You need them to find somewhere else to stay before your relationship with them is further damaged.
Any chance the basement might accidentally be flooded?
You are definitely not being unreasonable but it's going to be a nightmare to come to a solution if your DH is happy with them around! I'd start with the financials - at the very least they can't expect you to be out of pocket by letting them stay. Do they have any income or is that part of the problem?
They are def freeloading. I honestly think that if they were asked to pay the going rate they'd find alternative accommodation.
It must be nice for your DH to spend time with his parents but not that long!
Snowbirding is a term for Canadians who leave Canada for the winter months in favor of warmer locals.
I do not dislike my in-laws on the whole - they are quite nice people all in all.
I thought my SIL had made my DH see the light. She tried to broach the subject of them getting their own place but advised us that her parents don't seem to have a firm set of plans for down the road and in general they just don't think its a big deal to stay with family in lieu of having their own accomodation.
YANBU- not at all! I wouldn't even want my inlaws staying overnight for one night, let alone months! They should DEFINITELY be paying their way if they do insist on staying.
No yanbu. I couldn't imagine doing this to my children. Are they skint? It doesn't sound like it. I'd either pay a fair rent, share of food and keep out of your way as much as I could, or rent somewhere.
They are taking the piss. Yanbu at all.
Never mind buying a new mattress - i would start storing bikes and prams in the room.
I remember this. YANB at all U.
Tell them if they don't move out you will write to their insurance and the DMV telling them they have supplied a false address.
You are definitely being reasonable here, and yes anything over a month is far too long. If they plan on doing this for a few years they need to plan it out better, maybe work out how much it would cost to rent somewhere for a few months of the year every year.
It seems like you need to get this agreed first of all with your DH if he thinks its no problem.
Then maybe you will need to give them some time to make alternative arrangements.
Whatever - be clear that they DO NOT come to stay Aug - Oct as they have plenty of time to make alternative arrangements for that time!!
YANBU. Do you have any idea what their long term plan is? If their health deteriorates and they can't travel so much will they expect to move in with you permanently?
Also - they may be involving you in insurance fraud if it could be argued you are allowing them to use your address when they don't live there.
Snowbirding is a term for Canadians who leave Canada for the winter months in favor of warmer locals.
I actually thought it was a typo and that they were going snowboarding. I was quite impressed tbh at how fit they must have been !
I think part of the problem is that they pay a huge amount of money for health insurance to even go to the US at all - I believe my FIL just himself payed in excess of $8000 for health insurance this past 6 month stay. So while they aren't skint per se...I speculate this whole Arizona scheme requires some big sacrifices (on everyones part).
I was wondering about the US health insurance. Their snowbirding lifestyle is really expensive, ultimately, even though they probably have told themselves it's cheap (because they are poncing off you).
It's just not sustainable.
seriously, just say no. If your dh won't do it. you tell them, it's your house too. I'd be reconsidering my relationship tbh, he doesn't respect you and is making all the major decisions
Yes, but that's their decision, their choice.
If they'd consulted you before selling their home, as to if they could
freeload live with you for 3 or 4 months a year, you'd have said no. It's not your fault they've made a bit of a big lifestyle choice without costing it out properly, is it?
Yanbu. This is a massive intrusion and if it was going to work would require everyone to be on board if you are not happy with it, it doesn't work! I would NOT even be offering up 2 months frankly!!
getting old is expensive in the states are they going to have any money to retire?
Do you have any idea what their long term plan is? If their health deteriorates and they can't travel so much will they expect to move in with you permanently?
^^Big concern for me. I have discussed this with DH at length and he seems to agree that there should be concern for their long term retirement plans but he doesn't seem to want to address it in a meaningful way.
I told him that in his desire to please everyone HE is going to be largely responsible for the breakdown of my relationship with his parents and theirs with me. If this was my parents I would just tell them - "geez mum you know we love you but we can't live together forever what are you plans?" I don't know what this hold they have over him is but I do expect him to manage his own people!! That was always our agreement.
I would seriously consider divorce instead of having my in laws to stay for longer than a fortnight per annum.
Yanbu. Get rid of the freeloaders or get rid of them all. Awful.
Can they bring the trailer up to yours and live in it?
YADNBU, they need to stop the freeloading. Can you and SIL talk to your DH again, try to get it though his thick head?
I remember your last thread. You are absolutely not being unreasonable. Take a stand.
They're not needing to stay with you because of poor finances or ill health or lack of options. They just want to prioritise their money for the lifestyle they want, and pass off their living expenses to their son and his family.
Can you work out how much extra it is costing your household when they stay? Present it to your husband as this amount represents X (a holiday/house repairs/childrens' future). Is he prepared to give X up for his family so that his parents can enjoy a cushy retirement?
However, be careful presenting this as too much of a finanical issue (though it is), as they might offer to pay all their living expenses and then your stuck with them, and even worse they may then feel that they have some equal ownership in your home.
The main point is that it is your home. Not theirs.
they have moved in with you. they live at your address. they won't be moving out. they'll spend longer and longer with you.
that's the reality.
YANBU. They are being extremely cheeky and I'd be fuming with DH too. He's putting their needs first and giving you no option but to be the bad guy. He needs to tell them to stop taking the piss, their his parents. My ILs come to stay once a year for 3 weeks and by the end of that we're all a bit on edge, I'd be going mad in your situation.
So they're Canadian residents? Why aren't their licences registered to their Canadian address?
I think I'm hung up on the time thing. People with relatives overseas here often mention them coming for a month or two to visit? I don't want to be stingy and ungracious...they are family. I think they and DH are going to need specific boundaries as all this vagueness is making things worse.
I also think his mum's MS is a big part of the issue. DH (and me too!) want her to enjoy herself as long as she can. That brings a whole guilt factor in.
They are Canadians and have changed their licences, mail etc to our address.
I remember you posting about this last year. The situation is ridiculous. I would invite them to stay for a fortnight whilst they find a nice flat to rent nearby.
Just reading this makes me tense. As others said, it's your home, get them out! They are being very unreasonable. Falling out with your PIL is a small price to pay for maintaining your family's privacy and personal space.
The fact that they're not paying for their upkeep makes it even more outrageous, but even if my PIL WERE paying for their upkeep, I wouldn't want them staying in my basement (!) for more than a couple of weeks max.
You need to add this story to the thread about cheeky behaviour that has just gone into MN Classics.
YANB at all U. If you stay in someone's house for 2-4 months, you are not visiting, you are living with them. It's completely abnormal to just decide to start living with someone without discussion.
Since your DH seems to think b/c it is family it is magically okay:
I wonder if it would help to put it to your DH oversimplified, like this: Ask him to imagine he has unilaterally decided he's going to move in with his sister and her family. "Obviously if you are planning to live with your sister and her family, you discuss it with her before you move in, yes? Starting with asking your sister 1) Is it okay for me to move into your house? And IF the answer to (1) is yes then you ask your sister 2) How much shall I pay you to live in your house? You don't just set up in your sister's basement and come on up for breakfast in the morning. Even though she is family. You just don't. Right?"
But neither of those basic practical questions has even been put to you by the people who want to move into your house and that just isn't okay.
If he can see it like that, then maybe first you and he can discuss to what degree, if any, the two of you are willing to have people move into your house and come to a conclusion. And then maybe he can take the conclusion to them.
YANBU - that is shocking! I even think a month is too long! I'd be seriously considering divorce if this was put on me as your DH is showing a complete disregard for your feelings.
Good luck - hope you get it sorted & are able to get rid.
I'm in the UK and know a few older people who winter in warmer parts of Europe, being retired, and they get very good deals on hotel rooms/apartments for 2-3 month stays. I can't imagine there aren't similar options near you, so maybe research some of those?
Oh, and YANBU, of course. They stay for months, share your kitchen but don't buy any groceries or pay for food? Knock that on the head.
I don't think you'd feel this so acutely if you felt you were being listened to, that your views were being taken into account. My PILs stay for about a month every year and this is no problem because we know we can have a dialogue with them about it. For a while after Dc2 was born, they booked into a hotel rather than stay with us because the length of time they stay for would have meant a lot of juggling. Now we've moved and they stay with us again but I really did appreciate how considerate they were.
My late Nana was a snowbird! She lived in Canada for the summer months and down in New Zealand for the Northern Winter. She lived amongst her children and their families for about 15 years until she got too old for the travel (in her EIGHTIES!). I think the family reluctantly accepted it, tbh. The deal was that she always paid board. Always. She wouldn't have dreamed of freeloading for that period of time.
If they're happy living in a trailer, then perhaps check out local trailer park/short term rentals in the area. At least then you'll know what they're 'saving' by freeloading off you.
I know my Dad (a sweetheart) HATED having his MIL to stay for 3 months a year. Made him visibly grumpy and put-upon. I feel for ya!
I remember your last post, you were not being unreasonable then and you're not being unreasonable now!
I remember your thread OP. YANBU, and frankly I'd consider a month to be an ABSOLUTE limit. And I'd be telling them that myself, because I wouldn't trust your husband to do it. Sorry, but he really doesn't see the need (and that would be a big bone of contention for me). After that, they can go and inflict themselves on their daughters.
This needs to be addressed, but don't make it just about the money. If you say that it's costing you x amount per month for them to be living there, it gives them the option of then paying that, and then you're stuck with them. Make it about the inappropriateness of living in your home, the inconvenience to you, the lack of privacy and the loss of use of a part of your home that you need.
If your DH doesn't want to deal with this situation then I would consider telling him that for them to stay that long, you need the basement to be turned into a self-contained flat. Tell him it needs its own kitchenette and bath/shower room, its own entrance and to be separated off from the rest of the house by a lockable (from both sides) door.
Then charge them a decent rent, since they'll be using your utilities - make sure you're not out of pocket for the bills. They can buy their own food, and only come up into the main house by agreement.
In all fairness, even if you and your ILs were the best of friends this sort of situation would put a strain on your relationship - they are taking the piss, even if they and your DH can't see it. Your SIL obviously can, as can we!
I was told once that if 2 adult women are going to live in the same house, they need their own kitchens - in most cases I believe this to be true.
Maybe telling your DH that your MIL needs her own kitchen might galvanise him into either telling them they can't stay that long, or he might turn it into the self-contained flat as described above.
Or turn it in to a self contained flat and rent it out, thereby increasing your own income, and there not being any possibility of the inlaws using it because it will be tenanted.
I didn't see your last thread but these people are beyond cheeky. I'm afraid I'd be adding up the money they were costing me in my head and thinking, well, that's $10,000 that could have gone into the DC's college funds. In fact, looking at it like that makes me quite angry - why are you subsidising them when you have a new baby? This is the time in life when GPs traditionally help out the next generation, not cost you money!
Then there's the privacy thing - I would have hated for the precious first few months of my child's life to be spoilt by other people hanging around, you've put up with enough, get rid of them ASAP!
Something to consider - are you and your DH really compatible if he disregards your feelings to such an extent over such a long period of time? I'd seriously be questionning staying with him if this is how he treats you. The house is half yours, after all!
Final point. I agree with the poster above who talked about making the flat self contained. Do this and then RENT IT OUT! (If you stay with DH.) They can't stay if there's nowhere to stay, can they?! If they question why you've done this, tell them you've been struggling financially, not helped by their extended and costly visits.
Omg...i love my mil but even a week would be enough for me, never mind months!
Put your foot down, they are taking the piss...
All the money and privacy and long term issues aside, I think my biggest problem, if I were in your shoes, would be the sneakiness of it all.
Its like they got their foot in the door and then started making changes / assumptions based on the success of that - the licenses, the fridge, the mattress etc.
What you need really, is a family meeting. Can you work out exactly what you're prepared to allow and for how long and then see what their expectations are and try to fit around everyone.
I really believe most of the pressure here is due to the fact it wasn't an up front, clearly agreed scenario.
And YANBU for what its worth. My MIL is 6000 miles away which is exactly where I'd like her to stay.
Yanbu at all. It's so cheeky I wouldn't know how to express words for it.
My mil and her dh came to stay with us not long ago for two weeks
too long and they didn't contribute either. Her dh kept putting the air conditioning on, which costs a fortune, but he had it on he highest. We've now ended up with a massive electricity bill. When it came to paying for food in restaurants or supermarkets no offers were made.
We've had them stay before, even when we lived in the Uk, and they have been generally good, but this time, they were awful.
My fil came shortly after, and he was brilliant, and wouldn't let us pay for anything, a real contrast.
Your in laws are taking the piss! I think you need your dh to back you up more, as he's not taking your feelings into consideration.
YANBU!! I say that as someone who loves their MiL.
Time to put your foot down. They have moved in without even discussing it properly with you. Stuff that.
Yes, I know I need to put my foot down. I thought I did last time they were here and it was finally going to be sorted. I am very disappointed that DH is waffling again.
I think when he talks to him they give him a little..."we'll come upstairs less", "we'll shorten our stay".....then our resolve weakens and it feels like we are being mean IYKWIM?
I am being a bit of a coward too....I also want to please everyone - but I don't see a way out of this without offending someone.
I remember your previous thread.
I would be selling up and moving to a smaller property to be honest. if DH is being such a twonk then that's what I would do. It isn't a prob for him, the old folks dodder about and his life goes on as before. But there is a real risk that one or both of the DILs have some serious health issue - then what will happen???
Everyone cowers from accepting that they will be old and dependent one day (soon in some cases) but that is not the best way forward. Some long term decisions need to be made regarding the oldies and they are absolutely NOT going to make them so either you push this or you get yourself into a position that means you aren't 'the answer'.
Best of luck shoofly.
I would be giving your not so dear h an ultimatum. They move out or you and the kids do!
Just show dh this thread! Maybe them, too. Not one person is suggesting that yabu. You have the patience of a saint! Haven't your ils heard the quote that 'Visitors, like fish, start to stink after 3 days'?
ONE month per year would be far over and beyond the call of duty in my opinion.
Of, course you are not being unreasonable.
DH (Irish-British) and I (Kiwi) plan to live the swallow lifestyle when we retire following the sun from NZ to London to Galway, but we're already planning for it in our 30s.
We expect to provide our own accommodation and pay for our own living expenses.
Who are these people that think other people owe them a living?! That other people should subsidise them as grown adults?!
I don't understand what goes through people's minds...
I don't want to pay for myself, but I see you paying for yourself AND I expect you to pay for me, too. And I'll do fish-out-of-water expression at you if/when you show that you're not 100% happy with that.
Have you thought of ask them to contribute so you can buy a new house with a real in-law suite? Put your money together? Or they could rent something in a nice B&B or small apt. for 5 mouths of the year and visit family the remaining month?
I'm really not sure what you can do. Even if you scram and shout they will probably back off for a bit then gradually worm their way back in. Do you own your home? Would you consider moving, or you moving out for a while? It really does sound like either they go or you do, with no in between. Even if dh were totally on your side it would be nearly impossible. It really does seem that they just won't take your feelings into consideration. From your previous thread the other family members have pretty much kicked them out, so now they are coming to you.
It isn't unreasonable for parents to ask their children for some support once they're older, but it is usually done with discussion and agreement, not presented as a fait accompli. What will they do when the health insurance is too much one year, just stay at yours without saying that they aren't going to leave? And why should you pay to convert the basement, as well as financially supporting them?
You need to tell your dh exactly how much this means to you,and exactly how far you will go to escape this. If that means you leaving, then you may need to be prepared to do it. It sounds like he's so used to doing as his parents tell him to, that he genuinely thinks it is better to upset you than risk upsetting them. Ask him if he wants to live with them but not you and the dc? Because he can't have both. Once he has decided, then either he will be onside with you, or not.
Really, ther are only 3 options. 1. You split up.
2. He sees that if he doesn't side with you, you will split up. 3. You grit your teeth and put up with it.
Option 4. You have a rational talk with them, and they behave more reasonably, is NOT happening. You and ALL the family have tried it, but they are ignoring you.
I remember your last thread, I felt sorry for you last time and was wondering how it all turned out.
If it was me I would be giving my DH an ultimatum - PIL stay four weeks of the year or less or I'm leaving. Sorry, I know that that's very extreme but you have told him and told him and he's still putting his parents before you! He sounds like a total pushover. Presumably your PIL aren't broke if they can afford to be 'snow birds'.
Good luck OP.
I really don't get the read that they are being malicious TBF. They seem like nice people who are oblivious to the fact that they might be the problem. That people may not enjoy having them live with them no matter how great they are.
I'm pretty sure that they think I am the problem
This is literally the only bone of contention between DH and I - otherwise we've always had a very solid marriage and partnership.
I wouldn't have to leave DH - he'll ask them to go...that's never really been the issue - it's more that he would resent it and I have wanted to come to a compromise but its not working.
Can't you convert the basement into something else? Like a playroom? Or a gym? Sorry, probably not very helpful. I don't think YABU, by the way.
I remember your previous thread too. YANBU!
Hard one to deal with while keeping family realationships as good as can be though.
I have a similar set up here. In Canada, basement suite, no family within hundreds or thousands of miles. My parent come for a few weeks. All fine as they help out, look after DD, cook, clean, bugger off all day and also in the evening if we look frazzled. FIL comes up as soon as he hears footsteps
even when I tiptoe. Since DD wakes early that means I have him talking at me at 6am. Until bedtime.
DH said when MIL sadly died that his DF could move in. I said it was him or me. I love FIL but he drives me potty.
You need to work out what is reasonable to you. In terms of time, money and contact and present a united front to PIL. I ended up moving someone into the suite.
It's tricky as I'm not sure what Canadians or North Americans feel they should do for their oldies. I've lived in the US and have been surprised at how independent oldies are expected to be, there is much more angst over looking after them in the UK.
People seem to be better off with larger houses in N Amrerica so perhaps it is expected that you take on elderly rellies, but from what you say about other SILs this isn't the case.
Their finances are an issue, are they able to pay for care in sheltered housing long term? They might need to in the future.
As suggested above, either move somewhere else or convert the basement and let it.
The other thing is to make sure the DH's life is impinged by having them stay. Can you change your life so that he is at home and giving up his time for them?
It may be your only problem with DH but it is a pretty big one if he isn't taking your happiness into consideration.
I think your IL's are using vagueness to get their own way. They are moving in permanently. DO NOT buy a new mattress. In fact, burn it and buy an inflatable. That'll shift them.
YANBU btw. I think you are being very sweet and they are taking advantage. No one should expect to live for free for three months. And $300 a month must barely cover your food bill surely?
Good grief, you poor woman. YANBU AT ALL. how rude and presumptuous of them. I think you really need to force your husband to deal with this - he is being unfair on you. For some people this 2-3 month arrangement might work fine, but it needs to be something you have agreed on happily, not something that is forced upon you by stealth. It seems you've sort of resigned yourself to it for the sake of harmony, but you MUST get them around the table to talk about terms, ground rules, boundaries and finances. Do not be made to feel guilty about doing so.
I remember you from last year. I advised taking them flat-hunting this visit. They wanted to use your address, if not stay, for six months a year didn't they? Did you look into the tax and residency implications?
I think do a breakdown of costs. Not mortgage you'd be paying anyway but actual extra bills and food. Also find out what the going rate for renting the room would be, bills included, plus food. That gives you a higher figure to make the actual cost seem a bargain. Sit them down with figures in front of everyone and be clear and firm.
Can you actually afford it, or not? Is your DH enjoying the idea of appearing successful enough to show such largesse without having considered the implications? Sounds like you'll lose a family holiday, things the DCs really want, savings towards your own pensions or paying off the mortgage faster. Do a few basic sums along those lines and ask him what exactly he is suggesting you sacrifice in their favour.
Your DH needs to recognise that you are his family now and, as the person spending most time in the house, you have the biggest say. If he wants to set up house with his parents that's one thing, he can flat-hunt with them, but he can't have you all in the same house.
I adore my PILs but I would go crazy of they lived with us. YANBU
Oh and include the cost of a cleaner and cook, if they're not pulling their weight and are creating extra work.
I think I'd be meal planning for your family and being clear at the beginning of each week which meals they are welcome to join you for and which are family only affairs e.g. If you're doing something quick or light to fit around DC activities, or using up leftovers. Can you include a takeaway now and then and ask everyone to pay their way, or even make it known you'd like them to buy this as a reciprocal contribution?
Though, would having them cook for themselves be more hassle than it's worth? Can you leave a couple of meals blank as theirs to cook for everyone and either expect them to shop for those, or to give you a list of ingredients that you bill them for? Easier to charge a flat rate for food but good to get them doing some work.
Do you know, the thing that's most unfair about all of this is that your DH and ILs are completely ignoring your feelings. The assumption that you're just being uptight and won't notice if they just get sneaked in the backdoor is intolerable and disrespectful.
It's YOUR house. The problem is not with your ILs it's with your DH. You should not be being put in this position. Frankly I'd be suggesting that they go and rent somewhere and that he bloody lives there too!
The argument with your ILs is his to have, not yours. Your wishes are more important than theirs and if he doesn't get that, he is I'm afraid, a bit of a cock.
I'd be furious
Btw did your DH's grandparents live in his family home when he was a child? Where has this expectation come from? When did he share it with you? I think I'd be saying I married him not his parents and the change in relationship is effectively a change to your marriage, without your consent.
Well, me and the dc descend on my mil for a couple of months every year, and we don't even speak the same language. She is very nice though, and I try to be the perfect guest.
It's different in your case- the changing address to you made me !!! Did they even ask? Why couldn't they use a post box?
They must contribute, and if they are planning to be there you could price up the cost of converting ( as suggested by another poster) and say they could pay for it, plus of course bills.
It will be every year, of course it will, and getting longer as they get older. Why didnt they just get a flat somewhere sunny though? By the beach with a spare room? With the money from their house? As they might go through their saving super fast, and still be around but potless and homeless.
I have the strongest relationship with my DH of anyone I know. Soulmates, "the ones", knew immediately, etc.
His mother lived with us for 4 months when she moved to our area and I think it took about 6 weeks for me to say "if divorcing you is what it takes to get some privacy, then I'll call the lawyer in the morning". The plus for me is that he doesn't like his mother at all so I wasn't alone in feeling grumpy
We have now moved into a larger house which does have a self contained guest area (including mini kitchen / external door) so future guests can stay 2-3 months at a time without us all becoming homicidal. I'd suggest to your DH that if he wants his parents to be able to stay for such extended periods, they need to fund a conversion of your basement (with en suite and kitchen at a minimum). It does sound like they want all the benefits of a family home without any of the maintenance / financial responsibility.
I remember your last thread well. YANBU now and you were not previously.
Your in laws sound like they are really enjoying their retirement. And what's not to enjoy? Six months of the year in warmer climes, four months with their son and his family, two months visiting other relations. The only tricky bit for them is their DIL.
You are funding their lifestyle. If this continues, four months will turn to six, then eight and before you know it, health problems will dictate that they live with you full time. This can not continue.
Only you can know what you are comfortable with. Two weeks, twice a year? Six weeks in a block? One week? None? Decide what you feel comfortable with and DH will have to go for it. Do not let him talk to them in his own because he has shown that he is not firm enough.
If DH refuses, then he moves into the basement with his parents for the duration of their stay. That will resolve the problem pretty quick I think.
I'd want to talk to them having sat with my husband and agreed that we need to come to a financial agreement about their monetary contribution if living with you more than one calendar month in any year.
Since they're unlikely to go for this, it'll be clear that they're free loading.
My husband is fiercely defensive of his family- even when they are wrong. Tricky.
Say that this would be the only way in which you'd be happy for them to stay and that they can stay for only 3 months / whatever, in any year.
YANBU - you should say they can stay for 2 weeks max like you would expect from any other holidaymaker. You will need to make that very clear though.
2 weeks to month, tops!
I live abroad from my family and as much as I love them to visit I couldn't manage more than a month (3 weeks is usually my limit) without some serious fights. I don't even want my own husband and kids around for a month without a single break. We have 2 1/2 month summer holidays and I plan for my kids to have something to do for a week of half days or a day with friends so I can have a few hours to myself at home or I go batshit crazy, or DH takes the kids down to the beach to give me a break. If anyone I knew moved in for more than a few weeks I would be very unhappy, whether or not they paid their way.
Get DH to ask his friends what they would think if their inlaws (not their parents because they are your in laws) planned to stay with them for months at a time.
Oh and I'd pre-empt the mattress thing, go buy them a new one but make it cheap and not terribly comfortable... not horrid but one you wouldn't like to sleep on all the time, choose it and pay for it and have it delivered as a fait accompli! "I didn't realise the guest mattress was getting on so I bought a new one. Thanks for letting me know"
You do need to look at whether your insurance policies are invalidated by them staying for such a long time and using your address as their own insurance ; you also need to check your mortgage. They may have restrictions that could work as an escape clause for you.
I would stop letting them dictate when they stay, and I would offer them dates of no more than two weeks at a time, up to say 4 times a year. Or present them with a list of reasonably priced lodgings. You do need to grasp the nettles here, and your DH needs to start putting the needs of you and your family ahead of the freeloading demands of his parents. If they genuinely needed a home and family support it'd be fair enough, but they don't - they want the hotel lifestyle, funded by you.
Stop worrying about offending them. They don't worry about offending you.
Tell your husband he either puts his foot down or you will.
They didn't used to stay with you so why now must they be with you the whole time?
Has any of your DH's family read the play, King Lear? Same plot, it didn't end well.
I can't get past the fact that although they stay with you for months they don't buy their own food or do any housework. They behave as if they're overnight guests yet stay for weeks and weeks.
YANBU I would go insane with this arrangement and I'd be fuming at them changing their address to your house.
I think that you may well be stuck with them unfortunately.
Maybe the best way to approach it is to all sit down together. Have a chat about how much it costs to run your home, and that if they intend to live there for 3 months a year a fair share of rent is X, they also need to do various specific chores.
Perhaps if they were pitching in more you'd feel less annoyed?
Really difficult though. I agree that their lifestyle is probably unsustainable and they are taking advantage of you to subsidise them a bit.
YA soooo NBU! My ILs are arriving for a month tomorrow and I already want to kill them
Ok so just so I can get so angry my head explodes, do they expect you to cook for them or do they just expect you to buy extra food then help themselves? Can you be petty and buy stuff they do t like no luxuries (hide yours)
I have long standing pil issues which have been made better after mumsnetters made me see that in my dh not wanting to say no or upset his parents, he was happy to upset me his wife.
Since I pointed this out to him he felt ashamed and now backs me up.
I have to agree with others in saying I would rather end my marriage than have this situation and I'm not joking.
Mine are coming for the weekend and I'm already planning things to get me out of the house and how to get rid of them by Monday.
That ate taking extreme liberties. You are not being listened to by either your dh or by your iL s ultimately this situation cannot continue as it will cause breakdown of either your and dh relationship or your and your il relationship.
What strikes me it that clearly you and dh are in a partnership, you must own the house as much as he does - yet you don't get a say????? Insane.
I would consider some form of counciling or changing the relationship between you and dh and redressing the power balance - it surely wouldn't be ok for you to decide to go spend 1/2 your joint savings on something without asking him, or would you invite your relations to stay for 4 months without consulting him??? Actually it might be good if you had some cousins who were planning on visiting for August / September !!!!'
Could you turn the basement into a playroom / home office /
Oh yes, how does it work with their health insurance? What when they get older and more prone to chronic illness, which may prevent them travelling?
Aargh - I lost my post when the site went down.
Basically it said - these aren't nice people. Nice people don't emotionally blackmail you into housing them for several months of the year for free and then up the emotional ante by changing their licence etc to your home. They are manipulating you and your husband in a very calculating way, however lovely they may seem. And your MIL's MS is just another layer of that.
They are making it your problem that they decided to sell their house. It isn't.
I would be absolutely furious at the total lack of respect they are showing you and your family.
Bunk beds. As your dc will need the basement as a den and for spare beds for kids staying over.
Guest room- futon
But seriously- they should have discussed it with you before selling their house and becoming snow birds. Still, I guess they still have money from their house sale, so they can buy another one?
I remember your last thread.
You sound so, amazingly lovely and reasonable. I am sorry you are being put through this. I agree that the In Laws are not actually very nice people.
I am sure a lot of the problem is because you are too nice. I get the impression that you complain 'a little' but that, perhaps, you don't make you feelings clear. Some people need things spelt out to them.
The problem is is that you will have to be the bad guy. I can't see any way around it unless your husband suddenly changes his personality.
I would decide what you think is ok, maybe, a month in the spring and a month in the fall and then tell everyone. You 'will' hurt people's feelings and there will be upset but at least this would end up with everyone knowing where they stand. I would also work out a fairer way to handle the finances.
BTW. Two month would still be VERY excessive
I am afraid you have to be strong. I really feel for you and hope that you can work something out.
NO, is a complete sentence this is your HOME....you choose I wouldn't discuss the money it's more the invasion.....if you wanted to rent out our basement to make money that's different if your dh doesn't tell them maybe you will have to- I would say what you'd say to your own mum that was a friendly but clear way to say it...........
YANBU, my PILs are lovely but there's no way I could spend more than a week at a time with them without the relationship hugely deteriorating.
I sometimes feel like a bitch for not being that keen to spend time with them, but then I remember all the times MIL has moaned to me about her own MIL!
I don't suppose your pil's had such long term house guests when they had a young family did they? How do/ did they get on with their own PILs and might that help them understand the position they're putting you in?
So they sold a house & bought a trailer?
So where's the rest of the money?
Can they use that to buy a flat somewhere?
So they have effectively made themselves homeless for 6months of the year??!!
they should pay rent and foot all their bills.
preferably somewhere else.
or could you make the basement self contained
and rent it out to someone else?
I'm abroad & my Dad used to stay twice a year at a month a time.
But he was invited to stay-& offered to pay his way & helped with housework!
I think you need to sit down with them and say it is untenable.
They can stay max of 1 month per year. You CAN NOT afford to subidise their lifestyle choice. It is Their GC they are taking that monbey away from.
You also need space as a family. (I'm presuming they didn't have their IL resident when they had small children!)
You need to forget about offending them tey seem to have a hide of leather, so start developing yours!
I get twitchy if my mil is here for a few hours. Hell would freeze over before I let her move in!
It comes down to this - you can either be happy or they can be happy. Given that we are talking about your house, then your right to happiness trumps theirs.
You need to bite the bullet and just say that you hate living with other people and that this is no reflection on them as people, but as an arrangement it just doesn't work for you.
You are worrying an awful lot about hurting the feelings of people who don't have the sensitivity to worry about your feelings. They are pretty selfish people - it's all about what suits them and they are not giving any consideration as to what you want for your own home.
That being the case, I suggest you toughen up a bit and stop putting their wishes above your own.
Oh dear, I think maybe the $300 per month "rent" has made them feel like they can just decide how long they can stay as they are paying rent. I think that you should say that as your family dynamics has changed you can offer them the rental of your basement for a set time that you are comfortable with. Don't clean up after them, don't cook all their meals, let them look after themselves. Do take advantage of babysitting opportunities.
Nice though they may be, I think your in-laws are studiously avoiding some fairly obvious issues: they don't want to face the need to make long-term plans for the inevitable time when travelling to the US etc is no longer possible and they need a (possibly supported) full-time home; they are getting you to subsidise their living costs; they know the arrangement does not suit you (and is more than their other children are prepared to do) but they want to keep on doing it.
My children are still very small, but even now I can't imagine living with them for an extended period when I knew my child and/or the spouse didn't like it.
I think you need to grasp the nettle and tell them clearly but kindly that they have to move on, and in future cannot stay with you for more than whatever period you decide, and when they do stay they must make a fair contribution. If your DH won't tell them, you do it. As people often advise on here, there is no need to justify this to them, just keep reiterating that it does not suit you.
I remember this from before. I hope your DH backs you up. They sound pretty bull-headed, and ready to plonk themselves down in your life and not budge. This has been brewing so long it must have weighed on your mind ceaselessly. Quite honestly I think it might come down to you telling DH, "It's them or me".
Could you ask your parents (or sister or other relative your dh doesn't find easy) to send a letter? In the letter they will say that they've decided it would be lovely to come and see you and will be staying in the basement for 2-3 months, and throw in a couple of "I'm sure your dh will drive me to the airport and wait around for two hours while I see my friend who's passing through" type of things.
If your family is local then maybe Great Uncle Henry needs somewhere to stay for a time as he's sold his house and isn't quite frail enough to qualify for the nursing home. Of course he needs help with personal hygene and will expect your dh to do that as he would consider it undignified to he helped by a lady.
Or start brewing wine in the basement, The constant drip while it's brewing is dreadful when you're trying to sleep.
I remember posting on your original thread some time ago. My view hasn't changed one bit.
They made a lifestyle decision to sell their home. They did this without consultation with members of their family.
This is perfectly acceptable up until the point that they expected their family to be impacted by their decision, both financially and with regard to impigning on your privacy.
They do not have an automatic right to "camp out" in your basement for 4 months of the year. Neither should they be be using your address for financial matters - what if they default on a payment, will you be liable?
Quite frankly they need to grow up. They are not teenage kids on a "gap 5 years". They need to stop freeloading and start making arrangements for the future that can be sustained. This means they need a summer base in Canada of their own. If they can't afford this then they need to tailor their plans accordingly to ensure they are able to operate as independent adults.
YANBU and I really feel for you. It seems to me that you HAVE to put your foot down here as their sense of entitlement is without limit and your DH needs to get a grip. This is so far beyond an acceptable arrangement it's laughable.
I told him that in his desire to please everyone HE is going to be largely responsible for the breakdown of my relationship with his parents and theirs with me.
And more importantly the breakdown of your relationship with your dh too, I should think.
I have had ils to stay, sometimes for stretches at a time. And it drives me mad. I am the person at home generally, not my dh, and when they are here it is not really my home anymore, iyswim. I feel I can't do exactly what I like or walk around half-dressed, for eg. I honestly don't know how you can do it for so much time every year. It is very different from having your own parents to stay. Does your dh realise this? Presumably he would be equally happy having your parents to stay for the same amount of time, when he was around/on holiday, making it difficult to have other guests/visitors and so on?
If my dh was putting his parents before his wife and children like this, I know what my answer would be. And if he didn't step up and sort it out, he would be living somewhere else (possibly with his own parents).
The situation is clearly unacceptable and YANBU in the slightest. But I think that one of the problems is that you perhaps have been unclear with your DH about what you want the outcome to be.
Can you cope with the amount of time the in-laws live with you (and as others have pointed out, is likely to increase as they get older and frailer) if they start to contribute significantly more financially? If so, that's the discussion to have with your DH and then together with his parents.
Or is it more that their lack of financial responsibility is only the icing on the cake and that, even if they were to more than cover the expenses they create, you still wouldn't want these extended stays? Then that's another conversation (the one I would be having for sure) with your DH.
He really has to understand that if things stay as they are, not only will your relationship with your in-laws fall apart, but your marriage is going to take a beating as well. If I read your posts accurately I think you are, as so many of us are, a nice person and a people pleaser. We people pleasers don't do well at all in situations where the only alternative to our own stress/anxiety/unhappiness etc is to be seen as the bad guy by other.
You may have to be the bad guy in this situation. If, for whatever reasons in his relationship with his parents, your DH can't present a united front and say that this is a mutual decision, so be it. He will just have to tell his parents that Shoofly wants them out. If this changes/irreparably damages your relationship with the in-laws, well that's the price. The chances of the relationship surviving if they stay are minimal in any case.
I would seriously top myself if a family member unilaterally decided they would live in my home for four months a year. It's totally unacceptable.
Your DH has to man up and if he won't then you must tell them that it's not going to happen, even if that damages your relationship with them. As someone said, NO is a complete sentence.
Don't even talk about limiting the time or increasing what they pay you. If they have the money from the sale of a house they must have sufficient to buy an apartment or even another trailer.
Turning your basement into an office/gym/den/playroom is a great idea.
I wish you luck.
The more I think about this the more angry I get on your behalf.
The simple fact is that your PIL's seem perfectly happy to pollute their relationship with you and strain your relationship with your husband in order to live a lifestyle they plainly cannot afford.
There is no other explanation here. They are probably "self justifying" their selfishness under the guise of "we will help with the childcare", "we will keep ourselves to ourselves in the basement", "its only 4 months of the year" - but the simple fact is that they are forcing you (by stealth) into funding their snowbird dream at great financial and emotional cost.
I would not make ANY improvements to the basement. If you had wanted to convert it and rent it out you would have done so already. Anything you do to make it more comfortable signals an additional level of acquiescence on your part.
I think you need to read the riot act with your DH and get this settled once and for all. Your lack of unity on this is allowing them to continually "chip away" at the boundaries.
I agree, Mmmmnotsure.
My DH had to tactfully point out to me that having my parents around for extended visits was not as easy for him as it was for me, and we changed the way those visits happened. He's very fond of my parents, but I'd overlooked the fact that I could just slip back into a very comfortable relationship with them, while he doesn't know them particularly well, so for him it was a case of having two lovely but unfamiliar people in his home.
I would suggest what mouseymouse says. What about some basic work to your basement to put in a small kitchen - running water, cooking facilties, fridge - and toilet and shower, to make the place self-contained? It could usefully be rented out to others when they're not around, or even when they want to be around, making you in control.
YANBU - and its slightly worrying that you seem to being made to feel you are.
This situation is putting your relationship with your DH under huge strain and is taking money and potentially security from your DC.
Having things written down - putting in black and white how they are making you feel - and having actual facts and figures can make things harder to ignore and could be one way to get across to your IL the financial issues they are causing you - but I think your are being naive they must either be aware or are deliberate ignoring the issues.
When my DH was a bit wet standing up to his parents - I did it and got through the evil DIL phase. As soon as they realized I couldn't be ignore or shoved aside I got a lot of consideration, thought and respect from them. Plus few years down the line DH can and dose manage his parents so they don't cause issue and things are a lot better for all of us.
You do need to get your DH on side - you need to do this not your SIL or anyone else - then even if he can't stand up to them himself you can at least do that knowing you are on the same page.
ILs seem to be relying on you being a doormat and letting things slow go along and steadily getting worse for you and better for them.
Agree with those saying you need to deal with it otherwise they'll walk all over you.
If be turning the basement into a junk room!!
Are they there now?
The only issue with converting the basement to a self contained flat is potential for delay - that the OP accepts the ongoing situation because at some point in the future self contained flat will happen while time and money delay that point being any time soon.
The IL seem very good at delaying tactics already.
Oh and worry less about your DH resentment if he does send them packing - cause if this goes on much longer your resentment towards him and your IL is going to be an issue however much you think you can control or ignore it.
I thought I could ignore mine - but despite things being o.k to great now I can still feel resentful at times of the way my IL and DH treated me in the past.
YANBU at all
And I would be so pissed off with my maternity leave being hijacked too, and that's hard for DH to understand.
You have to have a real heart to heart with DH and tell him how much you are hurt by his lack of consideration for your feelings
. And impose a 2 week non negotiable limit for visits
You know that the bottom line is that they were utterly unreasonable when they decided to sell their house, assuming they could stay with family for six months a year but wothout consulting you. That was outrageous behaviour.
All the rest is about how you deal with that unreason, which depends upon what you really want and are willing to tolerate.
My dh overheard me talking to my mum about how pils had made me feel.
He was and still is mortified and mentions it often.
Sometimes they need it spelled out to them but it does seem as if you have done this.
Don't feel bad for him. You are being reasonable even the rest if the family agrees.
He may not want to offend them but it seems he doesn't mind offending you.
They aren't snowbirding. They are free birding or snow loading.
I think the money is a red herring. It is really OK for you to say to your husband that you do not want his parents to live with you. It's OK for you to need privacy and your own space. And if he does not accept that I think you have a bigger problem than his parents. Compromise is that they split time equally between their children (if you can stomach that) and make a clear plan for when the money runs out or they rent somewhere now.
Can you propose that they split their time evenly between all of the siblings or other family members
that might be sucker enough to agree , no more than 3-4 weeks at a time in any one place, and that a reasonable amount paid per week to the hosting family. If they want to be homeless nomads for half the year, they'd better get used to moving often.
Get them an application for a post office box to use as their official address, and be prepared to have the "what are your plans for the future?" conversation.
Alternatively, my DH brews his own beer. Our spare bedroom is full of sacks of grain, big plastic bins of more grainy stuff, kegs, buckets, kettles, a large noisy, smelly fermenter, and a beer fridge that rattles and groans very loudly all night. Do you like beer even a little bit?
I am giving you advice that I would think twice about taking myself as I am a shithouse.
Your solution is for YOU to talk to them.
This, however would terrify me in your shoes.
YANBU. Definitely NBU.
My H spilt up from his ex-wife in large part because she moved her mother in with no consultation with him - and she ended up staying two years. It really can be that serious an issue.
Loving the "free birding" or "snow loading"!!!
I quite like "snow squatting" cause it also quite rudely implies them crapping over their families - which they are IMHO
YANBU you have been more than reasonable up until now and but the simple fact is that this is your life ,it is not a dress rehearsal,you won't get this time back again and this situation is making you miserable ,and you don't need to spend your life being miserable .
I think you need to sit down and say to your dh that whilst he may be happy with situation you aren't .You have tried but it is making you miserable ,you feel resentful that you are having to spend money that you should be saving for your children on his parents ,you cannot cope with the lack of privacy (the fact that he does not find this a problem is great for him but does not solve the problem that you cannot cope with it) and that you really don't feel you can carry on .
He may not think you are reasonable (he must be mad )but nevertheless you are the woman he married, the woman that he fell in love with and this is how you are and he has to accept that everyone has their limits and this is yours .
Great point earlier about being able to feel comfortable around people who made you and raised you and not around people you've known a few years and never lived with. This is the key point
It may not bother him but it bothers you and will eventually bother the children so he needs to not be so selfish
YA so NBU. An FWIW, while I have no helful suggestions, getting drawn into changing it to a proper flat or playroom etc is really not going to help much. They will undoubtedly still expect to stay.
I remember your last thread too.
I think your SIL being on our side is a great weapon in your armoury (although they're no longer staying with them at all - is that correct?)
Can you persuade her to call a family meeting where you all address the issue together, with her very firmly on your side?
Btw, the thing with MS is that it can suddenly accelerate. They may not like it but the whole family needs to start doing some contingency planning.
A salutary tale Nina.
My sympathies MyShoo, YANBU. Your DH is avoiding upsetting his thoughtless parents, and ignoring the fact they are upsetting you.
You need to decide what you want: do you want more of a financial contribution while they are staying or do you want them not to stay or a combination of these? Then sit down with DH and sort out what he is going to say to his parents.
You sound lovely. This situation would make me very depressed.
I think you need to...
1) Show your DH this thread and have a frank discussion with him.
2) Work out how long you could cope with your PIL staying if there were no further changes to the house.
3) work out how long you could cope with PIL if t was possible to convert basement into self contained unit(weary though that thy would see this as permanent arrangement)
4) in the case of (2) and (3) above document financial contribution required per week (all incremental costs). Itemise so you can show it to PIL.
5) Everyone discuss together the outcome, you and DH presenting a united front. Maybe even ask SILS I join conversation as well as she is also on your side.
6) ensure that future is discussed too, what if scenarios regarding health. Particularly important to involve other SILs here so burden does not slip to falling on you.
Good luck, rooting for you to be strong!!
OP I remember your last thread too!
You need to have a frank discussion with DP about how this is all making you feel, then from there you can decide on a course of action depending on his response.
TBH I don't think I could stay with DP if he moved his parents in :-(
I think you can't do anything without your DHs support. That is your challenge.
I agree with the idea of showing him this thread (or edited highlights)
But you aren't 'one big happy family'. They invade your space and freeload. I think its time for a 'family meeting' to thrash out new ground rules re privacy and money. That makes you look firm, fair, in control and NOT hormonal mess. It also is a big mahoosive 'flag' to them that they can play the 'vague' card all they like but it won't wash.
You should have written notes with you 'regarding what i want to talk about' of privacy/boundary invasions and hard copy of all bills. This shows you mean business are organised and are not to be fecked with any more. If they get shirty you say calmly, 'what we have doesn;'t work for me, this is my home and we need to set down a plan that works for all'. If we can't agree: then we should be ending this arrangement'. End of.
Thank you all for the feedback.
I feel my resolve strengthening again.
I spoke briefly with DH last night and said simply that we can't keep arguing about this - there needs to be a resolution. The most important thing is the strength of our relationship. I told him his parents are fine - they are healthy and capable - there is no reason to not level with them. He agreed. Hug, kiss and we put it to rest for the night.
I asked him to consider inviting his sister over for support in the conversation which he wasn't open to. So I think I will have to join him to get the deed done. I'll see if we can pin them down tonight. I'll let you know how it goes.
I think if we convert the basement they will stay forever - that and we don't have the money to do it by a long shot. So that one is off the table.
So...I'm going to tell DH I want them to stay for a maximum of 6 weeks and during that time I want them to pitch in for groceries, cooking and perhaps the odd night of babysitting. That seems fair and simple.
That sounds like a good plan. Good luck
"during that time I want them to pitch in for groceries, cooking and perhaps the odd night of babysitting. That seems fair and simple."
To me that sounds like the very minimum - aside from the babysitting, that is what any adult member of a household should be expected to contribute.
Think you need to be clear about "pitch in"-it's not a jolly joint holiday!
They need to at least be buying all their own food/toiletries plus contributing to utility bills and helping around the house.
Yes, I think they need to pay an amount towards bills too. Because otherwise they might do one grocery shop in the first week then nothing else for the duration.
Fingers crossed for tonight.
I wouldn't use the phrase pitch in. I would tell them the amount it is costing you to have them there and say you want it paid.
Good luck tonight OP.
We are going to run into this situation with my mum when my dad dies, so watching with interest!
Sorry to be so blunt
OP, be very careful you don't end up with them as semi-permanent paying tenants who expect services/rights/access because they are paying their way.
Work out what you actually want - in a nutshell money from them, or freedom from them - and then frame everything around that.
Oh good luck - yadnbu!!
sorry if this has already been said, but sounds to me like they are slowly going to try and inch their way in step by step until they live with you permanently. you will be stuck with caring for two older people and their declining health as they get older.
OP, you're on mat leave at the moment. What are your plans for when that finishes?
Would you like to be a SAHM? Could you afford to do that while your ILs cost you so much money to put up?
Are you planning to WOTH? Part time or full time? If you're planning on full time, how will you find the energy to host them, cook, clean, spend time with your DH and DC?
As others have said, my fear would be that they will see themselves as having rights if they are paying to stay. (I fully agree that they should be paying their way, of course, and are currently freeloading and presuming on your goodwill).
You need to figure out with your DH what outcome you want from the discussion with them, as another poster has said, money from them, or freedom from them. Best of luck.
Oh my giddy aunt....two days would be the max for me.
6 weeks, i think your mad, seriously no one should have this forced upon them.
It would just be a no from me, sorry i like my own space. Book a freeking hotel or rent a house.
I have anxiety just thinking about it.
I would go stark staring loopy in your situation, OP.
I think it is particularly an imposition when you are at home on maternity leave, or being a sahm - sharing space with people who are not your parents, and not having your privacy.
Good luck in sorting it out.
My overseas IL's have stayed for a month once. It nearly killed me. They certainly didn't change their address, that would have been very alarming!
They do however always pay towards supermarket bills, takeaways and offer to make
awful meals and have the worse standards of hygiene you can imagine
I think you should start with 4 weeks when you talk to them. Just in case they try to talk it up.
I am actually finding it easier for them to be here this time TBH. Not acceptable, just easier than when I was working full time. I couldn't handle leaving work, picking my son up from daycare and having them right there the second we got home when all I wanted was precious time with my child and husband. So on mat leave for me its less grating anyway especially as I am bereft of other adult company. I will need to return to work full time in February - no financial choice with or without the in-laws munching our food.
I am going to set the 6 week mark - I can handle that length and DH will get to feel he's not ousting them altogether. I think they will be insulted though and just make other arrangements. Its a shame we probably can't just swing a normal visit length - then we would all be happy to see them.
I'm glad it's easier this time - though I would also introduce the idea that one of your family is coming to stay at the 6 week mark so that will give them you a fallback
when if they try to stretch it.
I would also still try to get them contributing to food.
They might see it as payback for all the time & money spent on bringing up your dh from birth to when he left home. Just be careful how you handle this as you dont want your dh to secretly resent you for throwing his parents out. Its not the ideal situation but the key is to turn it around and imagine if it were your parents & your husband behaved like this towards them. All sides need to maintain respect & tact to prevent a full blown argument from developing, this has the potential to do turn into a long lasting feud.
Try not to have these discussions near the kids otherwise they will grow up thinking old people are a burden. Which also wont be good for you when you become the elderly parent/MIL. Our society doesnt treat its elderly people ad well as it should. Yes there are issues here here that need to be dealt with but it shoukd be done sensitively.
I am going to set the 6 week mark - I can handle that length and DH will get to feel he's not ousting them altogether. I think they will be insulted though and just make other arrangements.
Result then, sorry to be flippant, it must be very stressful for you. Work out what is the red line for you that will not be crossed, by the sounds of it a limit on the length of the stay (plus a contribution) just so that they understand that contributing does not mean that they can stay as long as they want.
Summarise it at the end just as you would do in a business meeting so that no one can then say that they thought it meant 6 weeks for each visit for example.
I'm fascinated op. have you been buying all their food and cooking it even when pg and post Natally?
Do you do their washing?
Do they use all your shampoo n stuff?
I'm just staggered by this thread.
Looking after two extra adults is a huge amount of work, particularly on top of a baby and a toddler. I'd be very resentful.
I remember you from last time too. Good luck with the talk tonight! I can't believe they had the cheek to come back again
or that you didn't put 'return to sender' on all mail that arrived
No, they contribute minimally to groceries. Currently they have 1 jar of salsa, 1 litre of orange juice and some bananas in our fridge. Of course as of yesterday they bought that mini fridge so who knows what they will stock in it. They help themselves to our groceries. They rarely cook. In the past two weeks they have cooked one meal. I seem obligated to included them when I cook (well, they help themselves) but otherwise on leftover nights I tell them to fend for themselves. My MIL was previously helping with laundry and cleaning the kitchen but has stopped helping with the kitchen - possibly becasue they are trying to not be upstairs as much. She also sometimes does a bit of yard work (a bit). My FIL helps with nothing whatsoever.
Yes, one bone of contention was that after a full days work, a pregnant me would arrive home and be greeted with "whats for dinner". That never went down particularly well. Though in fairness they also seem happy to do their own thing.
I do not do their washing. Yes, they use our shampoo etc unless we don't have what they want and then they go get their own. I'd say they are relatively self sufficient - its hardly a carer situation - they are both in relatively good mental and physical health.
Who buys their bog roll?
OP - get them out of your house, they're not welcome.
They're weighing a heavy toll
Am with the others who've asked: did their PIl stay with them?
As Lottie said: where did this expectation come from?
Please ask them this question and see what they say.
You don't want them there, why are they there? Who's allowing it?
Can you tell them someone else is coming to stay after a certain time? Get a friend to come and visit you? (or someone from MN who could arrive loudly with lots of suitcases on a predetermined date? )
They help themselves to our groceries. They rarely cook. In the past two weeks they have cooked one meal. I seem obligated to included them when I cook (well, they help themselves)...She also sometimes does a bit of yard work (a bit). My FIL helps with nothing whatsoever.....Yes, they use our shampoo etc
They sound incredibly self-entitled, selfish and just horrendous to be honest.
I don't know how you put up with it, I'd be screaming divorce long before now....
Of course the key phrase here is: I seem obligated.
That's in your own hands completely. You don't owe anybody anything (except your kids), why are you making a rod for your own back?
I would be leaving brochures of Mexico lying around...
Oooh I must ask...what is a "bog roll"?
I've certainly let it get to this point....its just sort of gathered steam IYKWIM?
When they are in Canada and not with us they stay with MIL's whole family who all live sort of side by side on family land - her brother is lending/renting(?) them a trailer on his property and they are intertwined with MIL's parents and siblings. So that arrangement does lend to the whats mine is yours type life-philosophy I speculate.
MIL's family live on the other side of the country I should clarify - they visit there for 2 months or so out of the year.
I'm shocked you have lasted so long youusr be wonder women! I felt my teeth set on edge after an hours visit today - why when you ask my mil what she wants to drink does she flap on about how anything will do it doesn't matter so you make her a drink (today's offering was tea) and as you put it down you can garuntee within 5 seconds she will pass comment along the lines of "oh is that what I'm getting I was rather hoping for .....(insert any drink here we don't have in the house)
Good luck stay strong and don't soften too much. Oh and bog toll is toilet paper
Ah! Well then in that case we purchase all the bog roll around here too .
Just realized you must be in the US? (I am too.) I deduced a while back that bog roll = toilet paper
I kind of feel like it's also just too intimate for them to be using your shampoo, it's a little weird that they don't bring their own toiletries. I know it's not the main point but can't be helping w/the feeling of their being fully fully moved in.
Oops, read too fast! I hope the six weeks deal works out well.
I must ask which side of the country you are on... There is a Western Canadian MN quiche. We meet up and have curry and tea.
There are some Calgarians in the MN quiche. I think we are going that direction for the next major meet-up (we recently had a mini meet-up in Victoria). Are you nice <hard stare at OP> because you could join us?
I've had it out with DH. Im too emotionally exhausted to write about it ATM....will update tomorrow.
OP it might be worth checking to see that them using your address doesn't have any tax or allowances implications for your family. If they are classified as living there (claiming a pension?) it may impact you even more financially. It would be worth checking out.
There are some Calgarians in the MN quiche. I think we are going that direction for the next major meet-up (we recently had a mini meet-up in Victoria). Are you nice <hard stare at OP> because you could join us
that sounds intriguing....I'd like to think I'm relatively nice - of course my in-laws would disagree
I'm not a Calgarian. <hard stare> dh just works there. I'd have a bigger house if I was. <sigh>
Point them my way. Nice trailer park, a zillion condos (just sold mine, but next door is up for sale) and everyone over fifty snowbirds. Full of tourists though.
The ils come for 6 weeks for Christmas/ January (they are big skiers and always buy their passes before we do) and then mil comes for a month in the summer. In the summer she stays with us, but when they come together, they rent an apartment.
The apartment is a new thing. They stayed with us before. We have three children and live in a 2 bed townhouse... My own dd's sleep in the basement. my favourite Christmas was when we rented an apartment for them. And they insisted on staying with us.
I thought I was going to go crackers. We could have sub-let it for a fortune during Christmas week. At one point dh and I pondered going to stay in it and leaving them in our house with the kids and dogs and bedlam. Seeing as how we'd forked out 800 bucks for the privilege and all...
So, hopefully you have come to an amicable-ish agreement - these things can work out well, in the long term. <crosses fingers>
Come and join our quiche, anyway!
<marks place for end result>
Oo, oo, we could go to Edmonton. <dearth of shopping emoticon>
I'm supposed to be taking 30 girl guides to WEM in September. Wibble.
Op just remember that you are perfectly normal and reasonable not to want to spend half you life not just living with but looking after your in laws.
I have had epic battles over mine coming to stay at inoppotune times and for at too long with no contribution or help.
Dh was like yours and too wimpy to say anything harsh enough for them not to ignore.
It's taken years but he's finally got it after a couple of incidents.
I think your dh wants to keep the peace whilst at the same time having no idea how it affects you because he's quite happy with the situation therefore sees no problem.
I can imagine how stressful its been for you to have it out with him but just remember you are right.
They are absolute freeloaders!
When you came home from a day at work they expected you to cook?
That would be bad enough-but you were pregnant also!!
I think if 6wks is your limit, you should say a month-then polish your halo when/if you extend!
And doing their own washing-wow!
Bet they use your machine, water & detergent!
God, I don't think you are unreasonable to want your home to yourself.
I do think you are unreasonable to be looking for a financial contribution for their stay. They did rear your husband. And now you want them to buy bogroll? And milk? You are just making yourself look bad PLUS (probably worse from your pt of view) they may well end up thinking the money is the issue rather than the length of their stay.
My parents brought me up.
We are currently bringing up two teens & couldn't afford to long term support two other adults as well.
I'd rather look bad than be out of pocket.
Plus these OPs ILs have sold a house-they don't need to freeload.
In fact, they could still be living in said house & not freeloading off anyone...
Waiting for update too!
But hold your nerve on this, it's not acceptable - you said last year and this year they still haven't made alternative arrangements. I would say that you say ok to the 6 weeks this summer, but specify next year it'll be a maximum of 2 weeks in a block (although hint you'll have them for more than one 'block' of time over the who period).
Worse case - hit the nuclear option, move out with the DCs yourself - refuse to come back until DH has dealt with it...
Sorry you and DH didn't see eye to eye, OP
BTW - My parents are in the process of doing something rather similar, they have a holiday home in France and small house in the UK, they have been visiting the French house for 6-8 weeks 2-3 times a year, but now my dad is fully retired (having done semi retirement for the last 10 years, going part time), they are going to spend most of the year in France, coming back to the UK for a couple of months at a time, particularly over winter & christmas when the area of France their house is in can get a lot of snow.
However, in order to subside their pension incomes, they've decided to rent out their UK house and mentioned they could stay with 'family' - thankfully, I'm currently pregnant, we have a 3 bed house, I will have a DC in each bedroom and one for us, we had been planning to buy a sofabed, but have shelved that plan to avoid having an option for them - although I've pointed out there's a very nice B&B round the corner for us. (My DB rather stupidly has a 4 bed house and only him and his DP live there, I think he's either going to have to have a talk with them or put up with them for months on end - there was potential an option of putting hte DCs in together so having a free room, I'm just not going to do it).
Sometimes, parents can just see their adult DCs homes as extention of their own, but it's not just my house, DH lives here too - while i'd find my parents hard work but would put up with them, I think it would be very cruel to DH to make him live with them in our not very big house, him come in from a long day at work and have to entertain - fine for two or three nights, but for two or three months? Not fair on him.
OP - if your DH is being so inflexible I think you might have to say that if they stay you won't. It's your house and you should be able to enjoy it.
I don't think expecting a financial contribution from your ILs would make you look bad at all.
I think currently they look bad, as freeloaders - if they were just staying a couple of weeks then no real reason they should be buying bogroll, although I would hope that they might contribute a reasonable something to the grocery bill - but for the length of time they are staying, they should DEFINITELY pay towards living there.
Did you buy their house at market rate?
What a silly opinion that if your parents raise you (like most parents do) that you are somehow responsible for their living when you are grown up.
On the contrary I like to help my children when I can and expect nothing back. Ds has just bought tickets for us all to see a ballet. I paid him for the tickets as he has his own child and life to pay for.
My mum doesn't even come for a cup of tea without bringing a load if biscuits.
Here is one of the meet up threads. We have a FB group so PM me fellow MNers in Western Canada and I will see if
someone else will organise you joining I can get you in. For a price.
Sorry your DH didn't deal well from the sounds of it.
Another one here just gobsmacked by their cheek. How can they be so thick-skinned and feel ok about freeloading off family for such long periods of time? When my mum or dad & stepmum or FIL visit they always insist on treating us. And my mum will go out and do a massive grocery shop and fill our fridge before she leaves. on your behalf MyShoofly. Sorry it doesn't seem to have gone down well with your DH. Hope you're ok.
Western Canada MNer quiche organizer here
PM me and I'll add you to the group!
Hello MyShoofly <waves>
I'm one of the Western Canada Mumsnetters. I live just up the road in Fort McMurray!
<rofl at 'just up the road' >
Patpig the parents sold their house to someone else not to the OP , but now they are not buying another but staying with relatives at the relatives expense so they can spend their capital on travelling in the summer months . Or at least that's how I think it works .
oh, oops I thought they had bought the p-i-l's house.
in that case tell them to fuck off.
6 weeks is a good compromise IMO. Stick to your gums.
Ikea do a mini kitchen in a cupboard type thing.(sink/electric ring/cupboards). Can IL pay to have that plumbed in? Pay for a toilet/shower room? so they can be completely self contained?
It's not up to you to fund it though. They would need to (see it as their contribution to household costs). They should also be funding their own food/expenses.
Thinking of you, OP.
All I can say re your DH is that it is really important for everyone that you do not all drift into your PIL's end-of-life (or end-of-independence) years without a plan, and if DH is not careful that is exactly what will happen.
All I can say re your DH is that it is really important for everyone that you do not all drift into your PIL's end-of-life (or end-of-independence) years without a plan, and if DH is not careful that is exactly what will happen
Bring your courage to the sticking point. You can't put up with this bullshit for another 20 years.
So I hashed it out with DH. I politely listened while he told me that from his perspective he is happy to have his parents stay with us as long or as short a period of time as they like for as long into the future as they like. I politely listened while he told me that he is offended at my attitude toward their staying with us and that he is struggling to see my point of view and understand what my issue is. Then, and this part was fun, he told me he doesn't understand how I can be in a caring profession and not support his desire to help out his parents. Also, he would like our sons to want to help us out when we are seniors.
After asking him if he had anything else to say on the subject as I was unwilling to have this conversation again, I pretty much lost the plot on him. I told him that he moved him parents into our house without ever asking me my opinion. That nobody seems to care that I am not happy with the situation. That I have told him quite clearly in countless polite discussions that I am not okay with his parents staying with us for months on end. I told him that nevermind his parents - he is the problem. He could have dealt with this last year and his unwillingness to manage the problem has only made it worse.
I told him that he has grossly misrepresented me to his parents. That this is not about laundry or them staying the basement more or my dislike for them (since I don't) and that the first thing he needs to do is take some responsibility for making me the bad guy. That his parents and I are going to end up despising each other because he doesn't have the guts to just be honest with them.
I told him that he is a total hypocrite for seeing how he wouldn't want my parents to stay with us but can't imagine why I would have similar issues with his parents staying with us.
I told him that this is NOT an emergency situation. His parents are healthy, capable and have the financial means to support themselves. If this WAS an emergency than I would expect that all of the siblings to come together to work out a plan for managing. I told him that I find it ridiculous that they are hoisting themselves on the youngest of their combined 6 children, the ones with the youngest family and the least resources. I told him he needs to get a grip - nobody is kicking them out on the street FFS. They can stay the summer as planned and will have all told a whole year to sort something else out.
I reiterated that even his own sister has come here and spoken to him and supported my view on the situation and that I am not going to be made to feel like I am some horrible asshole for not wanting to share my house for the indefinate future.
He apologized and told me he would take care of it.
Well, we will see. He seemed a bit embarassed by his behaviour and agreed with all of my points. So I am hopeful this will be the end of it.
Wow! Go OP! I'm glad you managed to remember all those points, did you have a list?
good! and if he doesn't do it, you do it!
Wow OP that was a great list of points, and I'm glad that your DH seems to have taken them on board. You are completely in he right here, I would hate my ILs to spend longer than two nights so you are a saint.
Plus the point about him not wanting to do the same for your parents is so valid.
yay to you! hopefully he's going to sort it asap.
Good for you OP! Hope things work out x
That's just it really HE is okay with it because they are HIS parents he has known them all his life and grown up with them.
YOU have not.
If he enjoys loving with them so much maybe he would like to be at home more while you go out to work.
Let's hope he sticks to his guns.
Would be interesting to know if their parents did similar.
After spoiling my homecoming with dd2 I asked mil if her pil were staying at hers when she had her dc."oh god no" says mil "I wanted to just be on our own"
Gosh-well done-hope he takes it on board.
They have 6 kids-so that max one month each??!!
Well done OP, sounds like you played it magnificently!
Lets hope DH follows through - if not I think we might have to form a MN Posse!
Well done OP. This is absolutely OUTRAGEOUS behaviour on the part of your PIL and your DH is equally culpable for allowing them to do this and totally failing to take your feelings on the matter into consideration.
Quite apart from the money issue (which is, quite frankly, unbelievable jut on its own) it is quite out of the question that you should be imposed on in this manner. I totally understand why you don't want them there all the time, even if they "stay in the basement more". Just the fact that you know they are there in the house would make me permenantly on edge.
YANBU and I will tell them so myself if it would help!!
You may need to say it another few times, I bet...
Jesus. I couldn't imagine anything worse!
I can't believe people sell their house and freeload.
Well done for talking to your DH.
OH well done! Fantastic job there - but I'm afraid I agree with Hully that this won't be the end of it.
How bloody selfish of him to not even try to see it from your point of view, only from his own and his parents. He's not seeing you as partner in his life, just someone who must follow blindly what he wants - not on.
Really really hope that it gets sorted, even if it involves calling a full family conference to do so.
Nice play OP.
You are amazing .
Good on you OP. I hope he listens to you.
Just keep strong. If he wanted you to live with his family he should have made that clear before you got married.
I can't believe he admitted he would not want your parents there, but can't understand your POV about his??? Why does he think his parents are so much better than yours? very odd! You need to make sure he does deal with it now, keep up your firm stance.
Hi OP. I also remember your first thread. Well done on a proper conversation with your DH. FWIW I don't think you're being unreasonable but it wasn't until your last post that I spotted the answer to a lingering question: how big is their family. I think that, as the youngest of 6, with one side of the family with land and a "hey, we're all family, pitch up and stay" approach it's probably never occurred to him until your explosion that you didn't see yourself as part of that. A good friend of mine's DH is also the youngest of 6 and the only boy. She's fought battles over all sorts of things as his siblings tend to discuss and then present his contribution as a fait accompli. Your situation is different as one sister agrees with you but I think that family dynamic is worth considering. He needs to know that it's not HIS responsibility to put them up and by extension that it's not HIS responsibility to care for them long term. The fact that you have the least resources and your PIL are staying with you interests me. Why make that call when you've 6 children to choose between?
The other thing that you mentioned is that your MIL had MS. Do you think that she's not really expecting ton survive into 'proper' old age/doesn't want to face the truth about the care she will end up needing? Have the family discussed this? What about FIL's health?
Good luck, I hope that you reach a solution that turns them back into welcomed guests rather than nuisances.
And well done for really speaking your mind
Wow well done. Did I miss the bit earlier, where you said he wouldn't be happy with your parents staying? That makes the whole thing even worse. He just doesn't see it does he... Well lets hope he does now.
Apparently my parents are annoying. Agreed but
Ha! And his aren't?!!
Even if they were the loveliest people in the world it's too long, they're freeloading, creating extra work, making you feel uncomfortable and, most importantly of all HE DIDN'T ASK YOU.
I am furious on your behalf OP.
Even if his parents are the nicest people in the world -
they are not your parents.
Good luck. Stick to your guns.
MsPickle - the SIL I have a relationship with has no idea what their plans are. I have broached with her that she and DH should explore this more so we can all be prepared. MIL mentioned to DH recently that they she believes they will be taking over her parents property when they pass on. I told DH that if they have financial difficulties then we need to have an idea because FIL is 80 and God wiling will have many great years left but...its not a distant future issue IYKWIM? I'm sure I share the desire for them to have a high quality of life and standard of living for all of their retirement years - so if this snowbirding busniess is a complete financial drain for them than I think the siblings should have a chat.
Nice going OP! Now be sure to follow it home and make sure he does indeed sort it out - and very clearly!
Everyones parents are annoying. Thats why we don't move then in with us...
Yay - go MyShoofly!
I don't think it's the end of it either but at least you're moving in the right direction and reclaiming your home
(I'm intrigued as to why your DH, the youngest of 6, feels he is the only one that has a responsibility for housing them?)
I feel for you OP. My IL's stay with us for about 6 weeks of the year spaced out and that's bad enough at times. You need to be firm really and make it clear to them in a polite way how you feel. It's the only way to get through I'm afraid as your DH (bit like mine) doesn't want to upset them. Yes, your name will be mud but so what? They'll have to accept your rules or bugger off! Good luck
Way to GO Shoo! You rock.
Hopefully when this comes up again this talk will have left such an impression on DH that all he will need is a "do you remember the last time we talked about this? Do you really want me to tell you all that again?!" and fix him with a look.
It sounds like there's a lot of assumptions "taking on family property", "living in basements" and not very much open communication about what this pair are up to. Have they always been like this? When they had a house did their children just rock up to stay or did they work on invites?
The other thing that I noticed was that you said MIL used to clean up in the kitchen but doesn't do much now, perhaps because she's trying to come upstairs less. Is she the sort you could have a coffee with and say what you'd like help with and sort of give her permission/guidance about where to help? And could you give FIL jobs to do as well? As part of the wider "our house, our rules, our length of stay" structure?
He's right. Parents are annoying. That is why you don't force them on your wife 24/7 for four months without discussing it!!
Grr. Perhaps you should suggest yours come for an extended visit?
Well done OP.
Another one here who has a dp who is the youngest of 6.
And another one who can see that despite all the older siblings benefitting hugely from help from MIL when their dc were young, they have now all moved further away than we are (and we're 90 mins away) so that it will be us that end up trying to do all the helping her. Plus we have young dc, not grown up dc (even the great gc is older than my dc and has benefitted lots from his gran), and would find it a real strain to have to look after MIL as well as the dc. She's not an evil MIL like some are on MN, but I do struggle to make conversation with her or interact with her, she makes me very uncomfortable so certainly wouldn't want to live with her and it would make life pretty tricky if she were here long term. So the thought of your suffering OP and actually having them in your basement for so long with no choice would be a nightmare for me - you're doing amazingly well so far to be so restrained!
OP, glad you have had a good conversation with your dh, hopefully what you have said to him will really sink in and he will appreciate your views. Maybe you really should invite your parents to stay for the same amount of time that his parents stay and then start to see the lesson really sink in. Or maybe just tell him that his parents can't come to stay in August or whenever because you've told your parents to come and stay then to make things fair. And see what he thinks about that, especially when you point out that they won't be paying anything towards their stay, to make it fair with how his parents are treated when they stay with you.
Obviously you don't actually have to get your parents to stay - or just have them over to stay for a nice short break - but get them in on the joke and let your dh stew about them coming for a few weeks and see how he feels...
Whilst this case is at the extreme end of the spectrum, there seems to be (from the posts here and chats with friends/colleagues) a real reluctance on the "baby boomer" generation to make sustainable retirement plans.
Here in the UK many friends have parents who for years have lived off rising property values and the expectation that they can sell up or remortgage to fund what are clearly highly expensive lifestyles that can't be maintained over 20/30 years of non generation of income.
There seems to be a groundswell of entitlement often laughingly termed "spending the kids inheritance" - which in principle I don't object to - you can't take it with you and I personally would rather my parents enjoyed retirement than "save" or god forbid "scrimp" for me, but I am seeing this taken to "spend the inheritance and then let the kids bail us out".
I have lost count of friends who are now in some form or another subsiding their retired parents - parents who have "blown" life savings and house equity on mad "let's buy a house in Spain to live in half the year" or let's "travel around the US in a huge RV for 2 years" or "buy a boat and sail around the med" because they refused to really think if they could afford it.
Before I get beaten up, I don't object to people wanting to help family in desperate straights, I just seem to hear more and more stories where these situations were totally avoidable and parents have been - put bluntly - bloody selfish at worst and in denial at best.
The families involved are now making sacrifices that impact their children at the very time they should be the priority.
Do I just have an unlucky social group or is this issue becoming more prevalent?
Rant over.....hand me a !
I was going to say that if you can't get anywhere with talking to DH about this you should invite your parents to stay the other 6 months of the year. Because that would be fine, right?
Anyway, yay Shoo.
Yellow tulips. Interesting point. I wonder also if offspring are more likely to have bigger houses thus giving the impression of "room for parents"
My pil certainly seem fairly entitled when they visit here which I'm always shocked at as they are otherwise polite and reasonable people.
They seem to expect a hotel quality stay (which they don't return)
Even when I was ill mil tapped on my bedroom door to ask for "some toast please" and they think nothing of still sitting here at 8 pm on a school night even though we've all got work and school the next day I often wonder if this is how their parents acted.
Just wanted to say well done. I particularly liked your way of handling it: letting him say his piece first, checking he had nothing left to add, then giving him both barrels. Excellent work.
Yellow Tulips - there does seem to be a lot of that around, perhaps the numbers of what their house is worth has made a lot of baby boomers think they are rich, without realising they have to live somewhere, they only have that money if they sell the house and live nowhere - or live nowhere they have to pay for, ie. grown children's house (who are paying huge amounts in mortgages because they didn't buy 20 years ago).
There are so many who mention that their house is their retirement plan, without thinking that their house is also their home. It's breathtakingly entitled to assume you can just move in with your adult children once you've deliberately made yourself homeless - especially since that generation rarely have taken in their parents unless their parents needed care. Effectively telling your DCs they must have a more expensive house than they need (by having a guest room), in order for you not to have any rental costs. This is before you even look at people thinking you can just move in and not offer money towards food and bills...
Well done Shoefly - I really hope DH does sort this out. Perhaps he hadn't realised just how much it affects you.
Brilliant job OP. You handled that admirably. Keeping my fingers crossed for you
Well done OP, hope that this sorts out the situation.
Interesting point about people deliberately making themselves homeless, I hadn't thought of it that way before. All fine if there is discussion and agreement about living with family, but definitely not as a fait accompli. Good point also that if there are six in the family, the parents should spend equal time with each one, rather than assuming that it's fine to stay for months on end with one. Best of luck OP and hopefully your DH has seen the light this time around.
Excellent stuff added to the discussion, yellowtulips. Yes, the Baby Boomers are a bit of a historical anomaly, in health (longevity) and wealth, and it really puts a wobble into the experience of younger (and older) generations, meaning that historical/traditional expectations about inheritance, retirement and care can't be expectations: everything is different.
All the more reason to discuss things openly.
Well done Shoo, hopefully your DH has realised how hypocritical his stance is and will be able to explain to his parents that what they are asking simply is not fair or reasonable. Good luck! Oh, and YANBU by the way....
Totally agree YellowTulips (unfortunately!).
Astoundingly hypocritical of him to not see that it's stressful to you to have his parents living in the house for months, but wouldn't want yours staying there for months.
I would be fine with my mum staying for months. However, DH would not (and similarly, I wouldn't want his parents here for months) so I wouldn't even consider the imposition.
And so what if you are in a caring profession. Does he want to come home to his profession every night, too?
I actually made some kind of scoffing noise at the idea of sharing the cost of the 'guest' mattress with them. For the love of pete. They've booked your 'guest' room for all of the holiday season! Buy your own bloody mattress!
I might start an AIBU thread on that hot topic then!
Yellow agree. The boomers' parents generation were fastidious about having a plan for retirement, at least from what I could see. Boomers, not so much.
As an only child of divorced parents, these situations are the stuff of my future nightmares, tbh.
Ok - so have posted my first AIBU.
Not going to have dinner - have a feeling I might get a lot of !!
Thanks everyone for your feedback on this thread. It really did help me get up the courage to push the issue. I will post back
if once DH talks to them
...and western canada meet up group - I will pm my info!
Well done Shoofly - hope it all works out ok.
Excellent, on both counts.
Took some guts to do what you did.
You should feel good about yourself
Been watching with interest and I'm glad you had it out with your husband.
What are you going to do if he doesn't talk b to them?
I remember your last thread. I'm not surprised your prick of a husband completely ignored your points of views.
I'd give him a mental deadline to grow a pair and get them out and if he doesn't do it, I'd start making my own plans to leave him to them.
Well, I thought I'd come back for an update if anyone is still checking back.
The foot has been lowered. My DH did NOT speak to them but had no choice but to set up a meeting where we could all talk as they were about to go matress hunting.
The meeting.....AWKWARD. DH just sat there so I had to get the job done. I told them we didn't really have an understanding of their plans long-term. I told them that DH and I had never actually discussed them moving in. That DH and I differ in how outgoing we are and that for me the visits are too long. That its not personal, I would feel the same for anyone. They indicated last year and this year were longer stays then they hoped. I acknowledged that but noted that they are likely to have more and more Dr's appointments and so forth that could impact their travel plans.
I advised that I worried DH had misrepresented me to them - that this is not about laundry, money (though of course it is in part) or them hiding in the basement but that for my taste it is a lack of space and privacy. I told them that I'm happy to have them come for a month in the spring and a month in the fall. That they are of course welcome to stay this summer/fall as planned. I indicated I didn't want our relationship to suffer because of the situation.
FIL was seemed good about it but there was a lot of silent pauses. MIL seems a bit miffed (cut me off at one point) but didn't say anything aside from saying that it was all a miscommunication then as DH hadn't properly discussed it with me. Lets just say that from MIL in particular there was no lighthearted banter or agreeing with any points aside from that miscommunication one. So....I think she is upset. FIL advised the pair have to make some long term decisions. I know between the two of them he is the one more inclined to get their own place. They advised they just don't see the point when they are never in either province for more then 2-3 months a year.
DH thought it went well from his silent vantage point at the end of the table .
So part of me feels like an asshole and part of me feels relieved. They all make it seem so reasonable when your talking to them and I immediately feel guilty and uptight.
Well will see what they do then.
God what an absolute wuss your dh is. I can't believe he didn't say a single thing. I would have no respect for someone who, on the quiet agreed with me but when push came to shove didn't stand up for me at all or present a united front. I would seriously question the man you married, obviously his parents mean far more to him than you do.
Well done for standing up for yourself OP.
Well done. What a pity your H doesn't have your balls: if he had said some/all of that, they wouldn't have been so hurt.
Blimey, but your DH is a disloyal little twerp.
Well done for telling them straight nevertheless. Now stay vigilant, so the 2 months a year doesn't slide into more. And they still need to contribute during those 2 months, don't they?
Well done for sticking up for yourself OP. It sounds like FIL at least has got the measure of the situation.
What is going on with your husband though?! I thought he'd agreed with your plans last week. You two need a serious discussion as it sounds to me as though he's just paying lip service to you but not actually taking anything on board. I imagine you're feeling somewhat betrayed right now. Really sorry you're in this position.
You're ace, OP.
Do they do spine transplants these days? Would you be willing to be a donor if your husband is eligible?
Well, my husband has never "agreed" per se...he just acknowledged my feelings, claimed from responsibility and said he'd take care of it.
He is really not a bad sort he is just a total wuss on the subject of his parents
that would be some responsibility not from....
Not to turn your thread into a 'let's bash Mr.Shoofly downer', but the thing is, he's not really doing right by you OR his parents with his current stance. I don't suppose they enjoyed that conversation any more than you did. He could have communicated with them properly ages ago, and spared everyone the bum-clenching embarrassment of The Chat.
But there we are. As long as PIL now know there are specific limits on your hospitality. I reckon they'll be quite off until they complain to their other children about it and discover they all agree with you!
he's not really doing right by you OR his parents with his current stance. I don't suppose they enjoyed that conversation any more than you did. He could have communicated with them properly ages ago, and spared everyone the bum-clenching embarrassment of The Chat.
oh no...on that point I TOTALLY agree with you. at bum-clenching - perfect description.
Well you are amazing for having set it all out so clearly to them. There is no part of that that makes you an asshole!!
Your H on the other hand...I would be having very upset words with him and asking him why yet again he made you play the heavy.
But he has to be made to understand - if he sits there silently, they will interpret this as all coming from you and conclude that he actually agrees with them not you. That makes it easier for them to dismiss everything you say, with no solution forthcoming.
Whereas if you present a united front, then it will be clear to them that they are being unreasonable.
You sound as if you have actually communicated - you know, that word, COMMUNICATED - with his parents. Pity he isn't able to. What you said to them sounds very thought-out and totally reasonable.
And as for saying they can stay for you for two months in the year every year...am sending you a virtual medal to add to your halo.
Wow, I think you are great. You have dealt with it perfectly. I would have loved to be a fly on the wall.......
Did you think of other things you wished you had said or are you happy you addressed everything. You don't mention anything about whether they will contribute or not.
your dh is like a rabbit in headlights when he's around his parents. he's totally unable to stand up to them.
and actually, unable to stand up to you as well! when you've posted about your discussions with him he always agrees with you. and then doesn't do what was agreed.
so he finds conflict difficult.
if you are to salvage any relationship with your pil i think you have to do the talking unfortunately. before you do it, remind yourself of your arguments. it is hard to keep those arguments in mind when faced with the opposition, but you have to. your home is at stake.
mil needs time to digest what's been said, but i suspect an informal chat over tea might be in order to smooth things over a little.
and fwiw i think you've been incredibly generous!
No, I just could not bring myself to discuss money or helping out. But if they are only staying a month x 2/year I can live with it I think. I wouldn't be surprised if they just make other arrangements now though TBH. I can only imagine the things they say about me to the SIL's etc (cringe).
Good on you OP!! I would be fuming with my DH though, why couldn't he have backed you up?
and actually, unable to stand up to you as well! when you've posted about your discussions with him he always agrees with you. and then doesn't do what was agreed. so he finds conflict difficult.
Very true - Mr ShooFly is a lover not a fighter as the saying goes
Well done OP, not an easy conversation, especially when your husband stayed out of it, which may indeed lead to his parents believing that this is all your doing.
I wouldn't worry too much about what might be said to other members of the family-they may well have to have the same conversation in time to come, now that it has (hopefully) been taken on board by your PIL, that they cannot stay indefinitely with one member of their family.
Reading your update it sounds like your FIL wants to have a permanant home near you rather then sleeping in your basement. Where your MIL wants to do what she wants and not think about the effect it has on everyone else.
Is it your FIL that has more health issues then your MIL.
Jeez your husband really is a spineless little rat isn't he? How dare he make you take responsibility for all this.
At least you've said what needs to be said and everyone is completely aware of where they stand.
Would your mother in law try and weasle her way in via your husband? As xioxong said, his silence on the matter may give the impression he does not agree with you.
Very true - Mr ShooFly is a lover not a fighter as the saying goes
I think I'd rather be married to a lover and not fighter any day. But then I'd tell my MIL to sod off for him save him the pain of facing up to her.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Good for you OP!
Hopefully everyone will understand where you're coming from and things will be diffferent
Thanks for the update.
Well done, short term pain, long term gain...
But their other children have already told them that they would have to move around if they have other guests??? So you have been the most accommodating. Surely you can't be criticised.
Well done Shoofly! You're amazing and brave!
I agree, short term pain, long term gain. Good for you.
OP, I am ever so glad You have the Balls in the relationship.
You did Well.
I think its your MIL who has MS? If so, maybe she is in total denial about everything.
Join the discussion
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.Register now
Already registered with Mumsnet? Log in to leave your comment or alternatively, sign in with Facebook or Google.
Please login first.