To think they could find at least ONE inspirational woman to put on our bank notes?

(180 Posts)
MiniPenguinMaker Sat 27-Apr-13 17:37:42

I have to admit that I felt a bit miffed when I saw that Elizabeth Fry was being phased out and replaced by Winston Churchill from 2016.

There will be NO women left on British currency. Surely they could find a few? Emmeline Pankhurst perhaps?!

It gives the impression that the achievements of British women are not considered worthy of recognition. I have been getting really grumpy about this. I wonder who makes these decisions and whether this has even occurred to them. Am I being unreasonable to feel peeved that us women make up a significant proportion of the population and yet when we pay for things with our hard-earned cash it is a bunch of dead white men on there?

Lucyellensmum95 Sat 27-Apr-13 17:40:28

Maybe they could put Margeret thatcher on a tenner!! grin

WTFisABooyhooISBooyhoo Sat 27-Apr-13 17:42:13

do you know i didn't realise there was anyone other than the queen on the bank notes (in my defence i live in NI and we have several different types of bank notes all legal here so 'english' notes aren't something i see everyday.

but yes this is awful if correct. how is it being justified?

LadyMaryQuiteContrary Sat 27-Apr-13 17:42:23

Um... if you turn every bank note over you get... the Queen! Can't get any more inspirational than that! grin

WTFisABooyhooISBooyhoo Sat 27-Apr-13 17:45:39

i'm not so sure the queen is inspirational.

LadyMaryQuiteContrary Sat 27-Apr-13 17:48:16

She's the head of state! I do wish she'd get rid of the current government though. sad

PatPig Sat 27-Apr-13 17:49:04

Maggie.

CloudsAndTrees Sat 27-Apr-13 17:50:27

I'm sure they could, but I'd rather have no women (other than the queen) than have a token woman just for the sake of there being a woman.

Teeb Sat 27-Apr-13 17:52:27

Agree with cloudAndTrees

LadyMaryQuiteContrary Sat 27-Apr-13 17:52:27

Rosalind Franklin was vital in the discovery of DNA, it would be nice to see her on a note.

MardyBra Sat 27-Apr-13 17:54:36

Yanbu. There are lots to choose from:

Mary Woolstencraft
Florence Nightingale
One of the Brontes
Jane Austen
Emmeline Pankhurst, like you say.
Elizabeth I
Boudicca
Eleanor of Acquitaine
Elizabeth Garret Anderson

MardyBra Sat 27-Apr-13 17:54:57

But please not Maggie or Princess Di.

WTFisABooyhooISBooyhoo Sat 27-Apr-13 17:58:17

"She's the head of state! "

she was born into it. hardly something i want my children to aspire to "look ds, you work hard and one day you can be royalty too" erm no, he wont be. ever. no matter how much he wanted it. i'd rather he had real aspirations and had real inspirational people to look to.

OutragedFromLeeds Sat 27-Apr-13 17:58:21

Cheryl Cole? grin

OutragedFromLeeds Sat 27-Apr-13 17:59:43

Seriously though, YANBU.

It's pathetic.

LadyMaryQuiteContrary Sat 27-Apr-13 18:00:04

She's already on it, WTF.

Surely there's better inspirational women than Cheryl Cole?

WTFisABooyhooISBooyhoo Sat 27-Apr-13 18:01:54

cheryl is a MN joke grin

shes already on what lady? the notes? yes i know, they aren't removing her are they? she's head of state, that's why she's on it. it's not because she is inspirtational.

OutragedFromLeeds Sat 27-Apr-13 18:02:54

tbf though she might not be by 2016....she's fairly elderly you know....

I was under the impression that having a beard was important for bank note security. Most women don't have beards, but nor did Churchill.

LadyMaryQuiteContrary Sat 27-Apr-13 18:05:02

Poor Prince Phillip isn't looking in the best of health sad

if I remember correctly, Florence Nightingale used to be on a bank note? the Bank of England have to change who is on each note every so often (maybe to help against forgery?)

I agree its a shame that there won't be a woman but its not like Churchill didn't do anything for this country.

perhaps the answer is to lobby for one of the women listed upthread to go onto the next changed note?

TiggyD Sat 27-Apr-13 18:47:42

There was also that frumpy lady on notes. Forgot the name though. Lizzy Fry?

LadyMaryQuiteContrary Sat 27-Apr-13 18:49:01

Elizabeth Fry was one of the key reformers of the prisons in the UK.

Nux Sat 27-Apr-13 18:54:11

The Women's Room have started a petition on this if anyone is interested in signing - I signed, as I feel that women's contribution in history is marginalised at the best of times and it seems unfair and unnecessary to have no women represented on notes at all.

Petition

TiggyD Sat 27-Apr-13 18:56:43

Apart from the queen.

LadyMaryQuiteContrary Sat 27-Apr-13 18:57:23

Thank you, Nux smile

OutragedFromLeeds Sat 27-Apr-13 18:58:49

signed

JeanPaget Sat 27-Apr-13 19:02:09

Mary Slessor is on Scottish £10 notes grin

MiniPenguinMaker Sat 27-Apr-13 19:12:04

Tiggy, Elizabeth Fry is the one who is being replaced by Winston.

GibberTheMonkey Sat 27-Apr-13 19:22:02

What about someone like Agatha Christie or Agnes Hunt or Amy Johnson or Beatrix Potter...
I could go on and on

What is their excuse then

LaLaGabby Sat 27-Apr-13 19:35:44

Kathleen Lonsdale! (awesome scientist)

ChocsAwayInMyGob Sat 27-Apr-13 19:54:12

They should put Mo Mowlam on there. She was a great role model.

Fargo86 Sat 27-Apr-13 20:13:57

I don't see why there has to be a woman on a note at all times. It'd be embarassing to have undeserving women on there as some kind of quota.

SomethingOnce Sat 27-Apr-13 20:28:51

Four BoE banknotes, 50 per cent of the population.

I think it's reasonable to suggest at least one woman, even an undeserving one hmm on our banknotes without somebody getting all twisty knickers about quotas.

Bowlersarm Sat 27-Apr-13 20:35:22

That's the problem OP I think. You mentioned Emmeline Pankhurst? But blimey if that's the only feminist icon you can think of then it's quite sad, that was a loooong time ago. There haven't been many since. I don't think their should be an undeserving one just because she's female.

bubblesinthesky Sat 27-Apr-13 20:58:37

Amy Johnson (aviator)
Odette Sansom Hallows World war 2 spy French born but married anEnglish man)
Julie Andrews (actress of Sound of music fame)
Betty Boothroyd (ony female speaker)
Agatha Christie (writer of Poirot and miss marple stories among others)
Ellen Macauther (sailed roudn teh world)

sorry for typing baby on lap wriggling

bubblesinthesky Sat 27-Apr-13 21:00:52

Or of course Justine Roberts herself (founder of Mumsnet)

GibberTheMonkey Sat 27-Apr-13 21:01:07

I could understand the complaint that it's silly to put an undeserving person on just to make up politically correct quotas but there's no need, there are plenty of deserving people

OutragedFromLeeds Sat 27-Apr-13 21:17:25

Fargo I don't think anyone is suggesting putting an undeserving person on are they? (the Cheryl Cole suggestion was a joke btw).

Can you honestly not think of any woman who has made an equal or greater contribution than Winston Chruchill?

GoblinGranny Sat 27-Apr-13 21:20:46

It is a bit depressing to see this list of individuals recommended to be used on banknotes, and see how few women there are even suggested.
www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/Documents/about/banknote_names.pdf

HoveringKestrel Sat 27-Apr-13 21:36:30

Harriet Quimby -- the first female to pilot an aircraft accross the English Channel

Mo Mowlam -- She was an inspiration, level headed, and her fight against a brain tumour

Joanna Lumley -- I don't need to say much, but mayve living people on money is ridiculous

chocolatespiders Sat 27-Apr-13 21:41:45

Doreen Lawrence

blondefriend Sat 27-Apr-13 21:47:25

I think they deliberately choose people who have been dead a long time so that there is no controversy.

My vote would be Rosalind Franklin

HoveringKestrel Sat 27-Apr-13 22:00:48

BEATRIX POTTER - Yes, why did I not think of that?

MiniPenguinMaker Sat 27-Apr-13 22:05:31

Picking token women is unnecessary, surely? There are plenty of non-token ones. I'm assuming that they need to be dead to fit in here, so I'd be ignoring more current examples, but what about:

Jane Austen
Emmeline Pankhurst
Ada Lovelace
Edith Cavell
George Eliot
Mary Wollstonecraft
Rosalind Franklin
Barbara Hepworth
Virginia Woolf
Marie Stopes

MiniPenguinMaker Sat 27-Apr-13 22:07:05

Bowlersarm, I was specifically trying to think of people who are dead already as that seems to be a criteria for getting on a banknote unless one is the queen grin

QueenMatilda Sat 27-Apr-13 22:07:57

Wow! That's disgusting.

MiniPenguinMaker Sat 27-Apr-13 22:09:16

GoblinGranny, thanks for the link - fascinating. Perhaps we should start making suggestions in their direction. I had no idea that this is how it worked.

longfingernails Sat 27-Apr-13 22:10:45

Maggie.

longfingernails Sat 27-Apr-13 22:13:52

But not because Maggie was female. Because she made Britain great again.

MiniPenguinMaker Sat 27-Apr-13 22:14:58

Nux, thank you for the link to that petition. I've signed it.

It can be found here for others who would also like to add their voice.

NiceTabard Sat 27-Apr-13 22:17:38

Feel a bit sad that there are people who genuinely can't think of a woman who could go on banknotes who are not "undeserving".

Really sad.

MoutardeDeDijon Sat 27-Apr-13 22:18:47

longfingernails
"But not because Maggie was female. Because she made Britain great again."
You are joking, right?

How about Rosalind Franklin who seems to have be written out of the discovery of the structure of DNA in favour of Watson and Crick?

sassytheFIRST Sat 27-Apr-13 22:22:04

While I agree that lack of women is a V Bad Thing, I believe there is a practical reason re the likes of Darwin - the beard has many many pen strokes making it harder to forge - unlike a female like nightingale ;who used to be on the fiver, iirc) whose hair was mostly hidden under a cap.

Obv doesn't apply to Churchill tho - unless his jowls are going to be drawn in excessive detail...

ratspeaker Sat 27-Apr-13 22:23:06

Some Scottish notes have Elsie Inglis, a doctor who opened a midwifery hospital in Edinburgh, often didn't charge.

What about the Edinburgh 7, the first group of women to study as doctors, they had to really fight to be allowed to attend lectures suffered verbal abuse and even had rubbish thrown at them.
The fiesty Sophia Jex-Blake surely deserves a banknote.

sassytheFIRST Sat 27-Apr-13 22:23:53

Emmeline Pankhurst or Betty Boothroyd would be Awesome, btw .

LaLaGabby Sat 27-Apr-13 22:30:45

I don't think that list means much. I think if mad people write to the BoE and suggest someone should be on a banknote they write back and say:

"Thank you for your letter. The process for choosing banknote designs is complex and secretive and undemocratic. We have added Mister Maker to the list of proposed names however it is impossible to say when a vacancy might arise which will allow him to appear on Bank of England legal tender, or if indeed that will ever happen. Please don't bother us again, we have other things to worry about. Don't you know there's a global economic crisis going on?"

Shagmundfreud Sat 27-Apr-13 22:39:04

Andrea Dworkin would be a great choice. A radical choice.

Failing that Hattie Jacques dressed as matron.

In this time of economic decline what we need on our banknotes is an image of a very large, very bossy woman. Remind us to knuckle down and crack on with it.

MiniPenguinMaker Sun 28-Apr-13 14:09:23

sassy, I can't decide whether you are joking or not when you say that beards are necessary for banknote security! Am I just really gullible?!!!!

Longdistance Sun 28-Apr-13 14:11:25

Didn't they used to have Florence Nightingale on the old £10 notes???

MiniPenguinMaker Sun 28-Apr-13 14:12:38

I think partly the problem is that women's achievements don't make it into the "canon" so easily... look at Rosalind Franklin not receiving the Nobel prize, etc, despite her huge contribution.

MiniPenguinMaker Sun 28-Apr-13 14:13:29

Longdistance, yes, Florence Nightingale has been featured in the past and Elizabeth Fry is currently on one of the notes (but is now going to be phased out and replaced by Winston Churchill). Those are the only women to have featured.

EffieTheDuck Sun 28-Apr-13 14:17:40

I think Mary Beard should be on a £L.

Longdistance Sun 28-Apr-13 14:20:57

Thanks mini, glad I wasn't imagining things smile

SomethingOnce Sun 28-Apr-13 14:21:51

Yes, yes to Mary.

Beard on a technicality grin

YohedYoshoulderYonisandYotoes Sun 28-Apr-13 14:24:08

I don't think Pankhurst should be on there - she was not a feminist until she met her husband who was, and who had put several bills before parliament to get women the vote before she met him. After she met him, she became a campaigner for women's votes bankrolled by his considerable wealth. I am not sure that is exactly the role model we are looking for - marry into money and then follow your husband's political objectives..smile

Fry is a good one, but what about Mo Molam and the peace process in Ireland?

YohedYoshoulderYonisandYotoes Sun 28-Apr-13 14:24:39

Oh yes! mary beard!

SomethingOnce Sun 28-Apr-13 14:27:37

I bloody love Mary Beard.

My heart does a little leap when I hear her voice on the radio - she's always interesting to listen to.

edam Sun 28-Apr-13 14:35:59

It's shocking that in 2013 the Bank of England can either not realise they are removing the only woman featured on our currency, leaving no women at all, or, more likely, not care.

And even more shocking there are some women who say 'that's OK because they'd only be token women', making the massive and flawed assumption that there are no important women who have made a contribution to British life. WTF?

KittenofDoom Sun 28-Apr-13 14:47:13

Personally I couldn't give a toss. It's not as though no women have EVER been on banknotes. I'm sure another one will crop up in due course.

drater Sun 28-Apr-13 15:28:53

Rosalind Franklin didn't get the nobel prize because she was dead, and it can't be awarded to dead people, not because she was a woman.

I think it's UK/British people on the notes only, so Dworkin would be out. I'm sure someone else will come along, and they're not going to change any note immediatly, so just wait and see.

amazingmumof6 Sun 28-Apr-13 15:33:26

should be Miranda Hart, that would be amazeballs! grin

NiceTabard Sun 28-Apr-13 15:33:59

Rosalind Franklin was however not recognised for her work for years, because she was a woman.

wiki

amazingmumof6 Sun 28-Apr-13 15:35:20

or a photo of a chilled glass of Bloody Mary....

drater Sun 28-Apr-13 15:35:39

I agree it would be nice and I think she does deserve more recognition for her work

NiceTabard Sun 28-Apr-13 15:38:17

What about mary anning.

She would be a good one for the children as well what with it being to do with dinosaurs.

zukiecat Sun 28-Apr-13 15:41:01

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BegoniaBampot Sun 28-Apr-13 15:54:50

we do have a woman on our notes, surprised you didn't notice - Mary Slessor.

complexnumber Sun 28-Apr-13 16:13:20

Nanny McPhee would pass the beard criteria

thermalsinapril Sun 28-Apr-13 16:16:30

I nominate Jo Brand, Miranda Hart, Kate Winslet, Emma Thompson, JK Rowling, Zadie Smith, Tanni Grey-Thompson, Fiona Bruce, Clare Balding, Cath Kidston, Sandi Toksvig, Justine Roberts grin, Delia Smith, Nigella Lawson and Rebecca Adlington.

amazingmumof6 Sun 28-Apr-13 16:19:25

therma yes, yes, Nigella Lawson in a red silk nightie licking a chocolate cake!

put her on a fiver with a slogan " I feel like a million dollars!" grin

QueenStromba Sun 28-Apr-13 17:20:37

Rosalind Franklin has been largely forgotten because she did some beautiful crystallography and wrote a very dry methods paper whereas Watson and Crick came up with a more interesting interpretation of the data and used other things that were known about DNA to come up with much more complete picture of the nature of DNA.

If you wanted to cite a paper about DNA crystallography then you'd cite Franklins paper but if you wanted to say that DNA is a double helix where guanine and adenine pair with cytosine and thymine, respectively then you would cite Watson and Crick. They just made more of the results than she did. My PhD supervisor is always telling me to big up my results more - he says it's a problem that every female PhD student and postdoc he's supervised has had but not something the males suffer from.

LadyMaryQuiteContrary Sun 28-Apr-13 17:30:57

They wouldn't have got their results if it wasn't for her, Queen. sad They won awards for this, she won... sad The least we can do is make sure she's acknowledged IMO.

ivykaty44 Sun 28-Apr-13 17:35:40

I don't want someone on the bank note due to their sex - i would rather we had inspirational people on our notes

MiniPenguinMaker Sun 28-Apr-13 17:44:16

ivykaty, do you not think that there are any inspirational women?

Yes, I think it is a retrograde and regrettable step (if it happens)

I think Beatrix Potter could be good (with some of her best known characters) - and she gave a lot of land in Lake District to the National Trust too smile
Or Mary Anning (with the dinosaur she found)

I think they should think more about ways to make it more memorable and inspirational, especially for children. And that includes having women represented as well as men. Also creative people as well as scientists and politicians.

amazingmumof6 Sun 28-Apr-13 17:51:50

I don't know who Mary Anning is - but I seriously don't think that finding a dinosaur is an achievement!
it was there all along, she just got lucky - no different from me finding a fiver when cleaning the car.
unless she tracked down and captured a run away live dino I'm not impressed.

I like the Beatrix Potter idea. best so far

QueenStromba Sun 28-Apr-13 18:12:57

It's not a lot different to all of the people who've gotten recognition on the backs of their PhD students' hard slogs in the lab. She fluffed her chance at writing a seminal paper - if Watson and Crick hadn't seen her crystallography then her results might have gone largely unnoticed.

Most people think that Darwin came up with the whole idea of evolution when actually he was just the first to publish and suggest a mechanism for it. Wallace has been largely forgotten just like Franklin.

crossparsley Sun 28-Apr-13 18:14:21

UK figures who spoke to the world: first up have to be Newton and Shakespeare (think da Vinci, Beethoven, Plato for other European icons). But Jane Austen is surely the next most exported writer/plot deviser, so she should be there. Never mind that I think she's a bit mean, she's massive and she is everywhere, culturally.

It's a fact of history that "public figures" have mostly been men. I get uncomfortable with "first woman X" stuff because it almost makes being a woman part of the achievement, if you see what I mean.

A lot of amazing women have been prominent in fields that are different, or possibly "soft" - I think Hattie Jacques or Yootha Joyce, or Marie Lloyd, are serious people to understand and admire. Given the nominations list is getting a bit showbizzy, why not flood those categories with women so that the BoE has Joyce Grenfell to choose instead of Arthur Askey? (no offence, Arthur)

NiceTabard Sun 28-Apr-13 18:19:40

She was an early pioneer of paleontology, she was born in 1799. She made many very important discoveries despite not having much access to the scientific community due to her sex and the fact she was poor. Her story is genuinely inspirational.

Here are some links

wiki

natural history museum

From nat hist:

"The greatest fossil hunter ever known was a woman from Lyme Regis. Mary Anning's discoveries were some of the most significant geological finds of all time. They provided evidence that was central to the development of new ideas about the history of the Earth.

Mary Anning (1799-1847).
Mary’s contribution had a major impact at a time when there was little to challenge the biblical interpretation of the story of creation and of the flood. The spectacular marine reptiles that Mary unearthed shook the scientific community into looking at different explanations for changes in the natural world. William Buckland, Henry de la Beche and William Conybeare were some of the many scientists who owe their achievements to her. By the time of her death, geology was firmly established as its own scientific discipline."

I really think such a casual dismissal of a person who you admit you have never heard of, as having done nothing more consequential than washing a car is a bit, well, short-sighted and ignorant if I'm entirely honest.

MsSampson Sun 28-Apr-13 18:23:24

Have to say I'm a little bit shock at the idea that having women fairly represented would be tokenism.
There are so many appropriate women who could feature on notes, many of whom have been mentioned upthread, but I have another to add to the list -
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cicely_Saunders

AmberSocks Sun 28-Apr-13 18:57:37

have to say it doesnt bother me in the slightest.i cat remember the last time i held a banknote,always use my card or buy online.

amazingmumof6 Sun 28-Apr-13 18:57:53

nicetabard well if she was challenging the teachings of the Bible I'm most certainly not impressed.

The more scientists are trying to disprove that God exists the more scientific evidence they find that supports the conclusion the the Universe was intelligently designed.
or at the very least they are unable to disprove it.

Albert Einstein said "God does not play dice with the world."

He also said "I want to know how God created this world" and Stephen Hawkins pretty much figured it out, the Big Bang Theory is probably a very close explanation as to how God created everything out of nothing.

so challenge away Mary Anning or anyone else, science will only prove that God does exists - it has to, God created science too and He created our brains also to understand it.

(as to being short-sighted and ignorant, sure, in many ways I am both)

QueenStromba Sun 28-Apr-13 19:02:00

I really hope you're American amazingmumof6. I like to think that there is nobody in the UK who thinks the bible is a better source of knowledge than science.

NiceTabard Sun 28-Apr-13 19:32:38

Mary Anning was born in 1799.

I don't think you even looked at those links.

<considers backing away slowly>

NiceTabard Sun 28-Apr-13 19:33:24

Do you believe that the dinosaurs existed?

NiceTabard Sun 28-Apr-13 19:34:12

Or do you believe in the literal story of creation, and that the dinosaur bones are some kind of hoax?

NiceTabard Sun 28-Apr-13 19:34:30

Actually maybe I won't bother.

<backs away slowly>

TheFallenNinja Sun 28-Apr-13 19:37:47

I believe the queen is on them allsmile

MsSampson Sun 28-Apr-13 19:40:22

Amazingmum - it would be a shame to derail an interesting thread with an argument about God's existence, not least because it is actually not relevant.

If you actually read about Mary Anning, you would know she was devoutly religious. Her findings may have challenged the biblical story of creation, but she herself was not seeking to prove that God did not exist.

MsSampson Sun 28-Apr-13 19:42:45

Nicetabard - I was debating backing away slowly too. But I just couldn't. Told DP who directed me to this!
xkcd.com/386/

amazingmumof6 Sun 28-Apr-13 19:45:00

science can not be the source of knowledge, because they are synonyms - more accurately the word science comes from the Latin word scientia, which means knowledge.

Adam and Eve ate the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and there eyes were opened.

NiceTabard Sun 28-Apr-13 19:45:31

We've all been there, mssampson!!! grin

NiceTabard Sun 28-Apr-13 19:46:59

Uh-huh.

Mary Anning is also thought to be the subject of the tongue-twister "she sells sea-shells on the sea shore". There that's interesting isn't it grin

Whatalotofpiffle Sun 28-Apr-13 19:48:15

YANBU, there definitely should be women on bank notes. It wouldn't be tokenism, it would be in recognition of the many achievements of women in history and the role we have played

BegoniaBampot Sun 28-Apr-13 20:09:13

You are wrong, we do have women on the bank notes. mary slessor and elsie inglis.

NiceTabard Sun 28-Apr-13 20:29:27

Not according to the bank of england

says who is on the current notes here

BegoniaBampot Sun 28-Apr-13 20:37:59

oh, i thought the OP was talking about British women on British currency. didn't know the default for that was england. there are other bank notes in use in the Uk you know.

MiniPenguinMaker Sun 28-Apr-13 20:51:23

Begonia, I'm embarrassed to admit that I didn't realise that the other banks had different currency. But glad that there are more women on the others! Clearly the Bank of England is particularly behind on this one :-/

Do you think I can stock up on Mary Slessors and use em down here on point of principle?!

MiniPenguinMaker Sun 28-Apr-13 20:54:44

PS go Clydesdale Bank! They seem to be the only bank to bother, and both the Mary Slessor and Elsie Inglis notes are theirs.

NiceTabard Sun 28-Apr-13 21:00:54

I thought it was obvious which notes the OP was talking about due to her talking about elizabeth fry and winston churchill.

QueenStromba Sun 28-Apr-13 21:14:46

It's very easy to be completely unaware that Scotland and Northern Ireland use different notes. You only ever see them in London if you work in a shop/pub/restaurant and even then they're pretty rare. I imagine they're less rare in other parts of England. I still doubt the general public would ever really see them since they're never given back out as change - they just go to the bank.

amazingmumof6 Sun 28-Apr-13 21:16:38

<I so want to say who is short-sighted and ignorant now? but I won't. that would not be nice>

QueenStromba Sun 28-Apr-13 21:21:29

That would still be you amazing.

NiceTabard Sun 28-Apr-13 21:23:11

Surely most of the "general public" in the UK have done shop/pub work at some point? I don't know anyone who hasn't. And of course Scottish notes are legal tender.

My point is that from the OP, it was quite clear that she was talking about English notes, due to who she said were printed on them. And that you are being overly picky.

Or is it your point that as scottish notes have women on them it is OK if notes issued by the BoE do not?

MiniPenguinMaker Sun 28-Apr-13 21:23:14

<yeah, definitely didn't hear anything there, amazingmum, oh no>

NiceTabard Sun 28-Apr-13 21:24:31

Admittedly you don't get much currency from NI down here.

I further admit that I have no idea who is on their notes.

amazingmumof6 Sun 28-Apr-13 21:25:27

back to the thread - does it have to be someone British, by law I mean?

Mother Teresa is quite inspirational

NiceTabard Sun 28-Apr-13 21:26:41

NI notes

Not too many women represented.

NiceTabard Sun 28-Apr-13 21:27:48

Yes it has to be someone british.

Although suspect while BoE notes might choose from whole UK, notes issued by other countries will prob only pick people from that country? Happy to be educated on that point.

amazingmumof6 Sun 28-Apr-13 21:27:56

nice tabard - I looked at the link - George Best made it on to a bank note. ok

NiceTabard Sun 28-Apr-13 21:30:26

BoE rules

"Who decides who the historical figure should be on the back of a new note?
It is the Governor of the Bank of England who makes the final decision. The Bank have celebrated the lives of eminent British personalities on the back of their notes since 1970. It is usual practice to consider a number of probable candidates all of whom have been selected because of their indisputable contribution to their particular field of work and about whom there exists sufficient material on which to base a banknote design."

amazingmumof6 Sun 28-Apr-13 21:38:43

thanks for that, so although it is the practice to choose British (make sense), it does not seem to exclude non-British persons.

Has anyone mentioned Diana, Princess of Wales?

Or the Duchess of Cambridge?

I'm not rooting for either, but surely that'd be hard to say no to...

needanothacuppa Sun 28-Apr-13 21:40:59

was going to mention Marie Curie, but on googling, discovered she was born Polish and subsequently became a French citizen, so not really qualifying under the British banner, hmm shame as she was the first woman to get a nobel prize. Not to mention her discovery of the theory of radioactivity and discovery of radium etc. But there are plenty of British candidates, I second Elizabeth Garrett Anderson and Mary Anning as worthy of being on our bank notes. I think its so important to heighten awareness of women achieving in scientific fields. There are quite a number of female scientists who have achieved great things but sadly not famous names to the rest of of us, Mary Somerville and Kathleen Lonsdale to name two, (google is great isnt it!). Digressing somewhat here but it gets fascinating once you delve..... Not that I ever achieved any giddy scientific heights myself, chemistry o level 'c' was the pinnacle of achievement for me! wink

NiceTabard Sun 28-Apr-13 21:52:21

amazingmum what did either of those women do that showed "indisputable contribution to their particular field of work "?

thermalsinapril Sun 28-Apr-13 22:46:08

The queen will at some point be replaced by a king, so there will be one fewer women on there.

amazingmumof6 Sun 28-Apr-13 22:47:58

exactly, nicetabard - I meant to add grin as in I was joking! (got distracted by DS5 climbing out of his cot, again...)

but I wouldn't be surprised if either of them made it on to a bank note one day when William is King!

amazingmumof6 Sun 28-Apr-13 22:48:10

smile

GoblinGranny Sun 28-Apr-13 22:50:45

Anyone mention Mary Wollstonecraft yet?
Although I rather like the idea of Boudicca.

DrSeuss Sun 28-Apr-13 22:55:30

Margaret Thatcher can't go on a bank note but would be great on a pound coin. Just like them, she was rough around the edges and thought she was a sovereign!

amazingmumof6 Sun 28-Apr-13 22:56:16

It really should be Boudicca for her "indisputable contribution to her particular field of work"

or as Horrible Histories put it - Boudicca! Superstar!

I still think Beatrix Potter would be a good call.

KittenofDoom Sun 28-Apr-13 22:57:46

Shirley Bassey would be good.

CrystalQueen Sun 28-Apr-13 23:00:56

What about Dorothy Hodgkin, who did in fact win a Nobel prize?

GoblinGranny Sun 28-Apr-13 23:02:49

Boudicca because the Roman governor tried to annex her territory when her husband died, a mere woman was unacceptable. Her tribe didn't have a problem with being ruled by a female.

Dr Seuss, £1 coins were referred to by some as Maggies in the 80s because they were hard, brassy and thought they were a sovereign.

Katie Price of course.

GoblinGranny Sun 28-Apr-13 23:04:55

Kate Price as lady Godiva, showing off her...riding skills.

Jokes aside.

They should do a series of "great women in Literature". Plenty og inspirational women!

amazingmumof6 Sun 28-Apr-13 23:07:09

Florence Nightingale

TSSDNCOP Sun 28-Apr-13 23:19:15

Put Maggie on a tenner and watch all her haters refuse to touch them.

I think it bothers me most we can't suggest a single inspirational female in the last 100 years that gets a majority vote.

That's why Churchill gets the gig.

amazingmumof6 Sun 28-Apr-13 23:25:05

how about suffragettes?

SaggyOldClothCatPuss Sun 28-Apr-13 23:36:48

Boudicca, yes.
Kaitie Price, I would have to leave the country!
To the person who suggested Eleanor of Aquitaine, she wasnt British. She came from er...Aquitaine! And she wasnt that inspirational!

SaggyOldClothCatPuss Sun 28-Apr-13 23:37:33

How about Mary Poppins? grin

GoblinGranny Sun 28-Apr-13 23:38:52

Well, here's another link, but be honest with yourselves.
How many could you say you've heard of and know why they are important?

www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/a-century-of-distinction-100-women-who-changed-the-world-1917427.html

amazingmumof6 Sun 28-Apr-13 23:41:24

Agatha Christie

GoblinGranny Sun 28-Apr-13 23:46:18

Amazingmum, will you please read the thread?
Otherwise you'll just continue to repeat suggestions that others have already made.

amazingmumof6 Sun 28-Apr-13 23:50:19

Isn't that the point? to see who gets the most votes?

last one - the founder of MN

KittenofDoom Mon 29-Apr-13 00:02:40

There's no point suggesting Florence Nightingale as she has already been on a banknote.

amazingmumof6 Mon 29-Apr-13 00:12:19

kitten - I can suggest whoever I want as invited by the OP.

I didn't know FN had been on a bank note, but so what? she could be on it again, couldn't she? who knows?

unless you are the Governor of the Bank of England it will not be your decision, so why are you dismissing my idea?

GoblinGranny Mon 29-Apr-13 00:17:47

So, let's talk about you, amazing.
Are you an American citizen?

NiceTabard Mon 29-Apr-13 00:19:17

Apparently FN nickname "the lady with the lamp" was invented by a journalist - and that the soldiers she looked after actually called her "the lady with the hammer" as she would break into supply cupboards to get the things she needed to treat them.

interesting.

HullMum Mon 29-Apr-13 00:25:37

are there really some complete fucking idiots people on this thread who think there isn't one deserving woman in all of the history of the UK? That to find one would be quota filling?

amazingmumof6 Mon 29-Apr-13 00:31:19

goblin - why do you care?

GoblinGranny Mon 29-Apr-13 00:35:07

I'm intrigued by the clues you are throwing out, and I thought it was more polite to ask than run an advanced search on your name.

Harriet Taylor Mill. Someone upthread said Emmeline Pankhurst was not really a campaigner before she met her DH. The opposite is true of Harriet Taylor Mill.

Her DH John Stuart Mill said of her, "Were I but capable of interpreting to the world one half the great thoughts and noble feelings which are buried in her grave, I should be the medium of a greater benefit to it, than is ever likely to arise from anything that I can write, unprompted and unassisted by her all but unrivalled wisdom."

He didn't think she was 'token'.

HullMum Mon 29-Apr-13 00:37:26

can we please stop assuming that all religious nutters are American? please?

HullMum Mon 29-Apr-13 00:39:30

also yy to boudicca, she's a fascinating part of UK history

amazingmumof6 Mon 29-Apr-13 00:42:21

goblin that's nice, now you are threatening me.

GoblinGranny Mon 29-Apr-13 00:48:41

How am I threatening you? I can only find out what you have chosen to share. How is that intimidating to you?
Anyway, you don't appear to be an American, so I got that wrong. grin
You do seem to misinterpret posts though, I don't see the OP asking for a vote on suggestions, just asking if SIBU to be irritated. And she isn't, but I don't see why you are. Irritated that is.

amazingmumof6 Mon 29-Apr-13 01:00:11

goblingranny whatever is on one thread should be not dragged over to another.

why would you want to find out whatever I have shared previously? what's it to you?

this is not a thread about me and I don't appreciate being "stalked" if I'm not answering your question.
so yes, it feels like a threat.

If I'm irritated that must be the lack of sleep - sick kids keeping me up.

GoblinGranny Mon 29-Apr-13 01:19:55

Ok, but do you understand that the thread has become more about thinking of different inspirational women who could be used on a British banknote?

amazingmumof6 Mon 29-Apr-13 01:42:53

"There will be NO women left on British currency. Surely they could find a few? Emmeline Pankhurst perhaps?!" was posted by OP

"surely they could find a few" - so off they went in search of candidates for about 4 pages before I even looked (I think)

maybe it did become more about suggesting different people than what OP felt. but threads evolve, so not sure why that's a problem.

whoever has a problem with what's on the banknotes should just hand them to me.grin

cuillereasoupe Mon 29-Apr-13 07:41:04

Aphra Behn would be cool: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphra_Behn

Otherwise YY to Mary Anning, Mary Somerville, Ada Lovelace, or Rosalind Franklin.

perfectstorm Mon 29-Apr-13 10:20:15

The universe is primarily composed of hydrogen. Scientists would generally agree that this discovery is significant enough to be on a par with gravity (Newton) or relativity (Einstein) but I suspect not many know that the first person to realise it was a woman, Cecilia Payne-Gaposchkin. A British woman, who died in 1979. I think discovering the very stuff of which our universe is made might perhaps be enough to save her from allegations of being "token" or "undeserving".

Of course, a more intelligent question might be as to why her name is almost completely unknown.

Saltire Mon 29-Apr-13 10:48:28

I am curious that the NI bank notes have the Spanish Armada on oen and the US space shuttle on another. I wonder what the connection is.

Anyway my choice of inspirational women would include

Margaret Beaufort
Odette Sansom GC MBE

thermalsinapril Mon 29-Apr-13 11:14:10

Julie Andrews

KittenofDoom Mon 29-Apr-13 11:24:27

amazingmumof6 hmm

I never said you couldn't suggest who you want. I said there is no point in suggesting someone who has already had their turn.

At least you learned something. I am pleased to have been of service.

FreedomOfTheTess Mon 29-Apr-13 12:23:34

My understanding is, the Bank of England asked the public who they would most like to see on one of our bank notes, and Winston Churchill came top by a zillion miles.

While I admit it's disappointing there won't be any women (other than the Queen) on the notes, when the change is made, if Winston Churchill was the popular choice then it's hard to argue against that really isn't it? And it's certainly difficult to argue for Winston Churchill NOT being on one of the banknotes.

The 'faces' on the notes do change every so many years, so the next time they change one of the notes, make sure you vote for your favourite. They do tend to ask the public their opinion each time.

C4ro Mon 29-Apr-13 12:31:40

Ada Lovelace had a rather awesome sort of "princess leia" hairdo that I wager would be as hard as a "scientist beard" to repro...

KittenofDoom Mon 29-Apr-13 13:38:44

They could always bring back Britannia smile

absolutmum Mon 29-Apr-13 14:55:27

I find it very sad that they are replacing Elizabeth Fry. She carried out lots of fantastic work and she was one of my ancestors!
My son won't be able to use that as his interesting fact any more.

pigletmania Mon 29-Apr-13 15:54:31

Yanbu at all. There are plenty of inspurational women

perfectstorm Mon 29-Apr-13 20:51:12

FreedomOfTheTess, that's incorrect. The public can certainly make suggestions, but the Governor of the Bank of England decides. It's not democratic.

Apart from Cecelia Payne-Gaposchkin, Louise Meitner was an equal partner in the discovery of nuclear fission, but her partner, Kurt Hahn, seemingluy deliberately, suppressed her role (recently released letters between the two apparently show that she was instructing him on what experiments to run when the rise of Nazism split them to different countries, as the research continued) and succeeded in doing so for decades. Weitner retired a British citizen, and died in Cambridge. Her part is now universally acknowledged in scientific circles and she's been posthumously awarded a prize, as well as had an element in the periodic table named after her. The Berlin Hahn-Weitner Institut is, obviously, called after them both. It's probably worth noting that neither were involved in or supportive of the development of their discovery into nuclear weapons, either.

So yes: the woman who discovered DNA's structure (Rosalind Franklin) the woman who discovered the universe was made up primarily of hydrogen (Cecelia Payne-Gaposchkin) or the woman who discovered nuclear fission (Louise Weitner). All British, all made a huge contribution to our world, all appropriately non-tokenistic people. And not one of them is exactly famous. In fact you'll usually be told no woman has ever made much of a contribution to science, with a cursory aside that Marie Curie is the exception that proves the rule.

Hafen Mon 29-Apr-13 20:53:49

What about some of the girls off towie, or maybe Jordan

FreedomOfTheTess Mon 29-Apr-13 20:56:26

perfectstorm - I'm fully aware that the Governor makes the final decision, I'm not stupid.

However, they do gage public opinion, and the Governor is made aware of what that opinion is.

Winston Churchill who was one of the names being considered for the new fiver, and knowing the public strongly supported him being on the back of one of our notes, it made the current Governor's decision a bit essier.

Mervyn King said as much when he was interviewed on the news the other day, as as he's the Governor, I think he knows what he's talking about!

FreedomOfTheTess Mon 29-Apr-13 20:58:34

* Obviously they wouldn't put it simply to public vote, otherwise we'd end up with David Beckham on the back of one of the notes!

My point was, if people on here feel that strongly about it, they need to be sending their suggestions to the Bank of England for the NEXT time they change one of the notes.

SomethingOnce Mon 29-Apr-13 21:21:34

It'd be amazing if an MN campaign resulted in the next change recognising one of the women discussed on this thread (not Katie Price, obv).

perfectstorm Mon 29-Apr-13 22:24:20

Obviously they wouldn't put it simply to public vote, otherwise we'd end up with David Beckham on the back of one of the notes!

As opposed to a shortlist of 20, suggested by the public and deemed appropriate, you mean?

My understanding is, the Bank of England asked the public who they would most like to see on one of our bank notes, and Winston Churchill came top by a zillion miles.

How did they "ask the public"? And did you really expect him to say he chose the person he most liked the idea of on national radio? Sorry but that makes no sense: they didn't ask, they accepted some suggestions and he selected the one he liked. It's a perk of the job, in fairness. But it's perfectly reasonable to think an all-male list is a bit much, albeit in keeping with the senior staff at the BoE and the Treasury. In fairness, I doubt gender ever crossed King's mind. That's a large part of the problem.

KittenofDoom Mon 29-Apr-13 22:43:20

Looking at it another way, if they just swapped a woman for another woman, they would always be on the lowest denomination note. I think Florence was on the tenner, so maybe a woman will get to be on the £20 note next time that's due for a change.

edam Mon 29-Apr-13 22:54:13

Thank you for sharing the story of Cecilia Payne-Gaposchkin, PerfectStorm. I didn't know about her. An astounding discovery - as you say, on a par with Newton and Einstein, and yet she's been written out of history. Shameful.

olivertheoctopus Mon 29-Apr-13 22:59:58

Clearly they need to put Mary Berry on a banknote...wink

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