to feel like phoning the student loans company and giving them this person's full details?

(147 Posts)
bubblesinthesky Sat 27-Apr-13 17:01:52

I was at university with someone in the mid 1990s when student loans were just being brought in. He took the full loans but always said he would never pay them back if he could help it. I've stayed in touch with him and recently I mentioned i was happy because I'd finally finished paying my loans back.

He laughed and told me the Student Loans Company had lost track of him years ago and there was no way they'd ever get the money back off him now. He has a really common name so I imagine he would be hard to track down.

AIBU to be considering telling them where he is or should I just leave it? It seems so unfair when he's earning way more than me and has a huge house that he's dodging them in this way while others are struggling to pay them back.

flossy101 Sat 27-Apr-13 17:04:51

How did they lose track? Doesn't it come straight from your wages and thu track you via national insurance number?

mrsjay Sat 27-Apr-13 17:05:16

I would leave it they will catch up with him though my sister tried the same she is still paying back what she owes <rolls eyes> it really is nothing to do with you, you are just ticked off because you paid it, you did the right thing he didnt they will catch him

chicaguapa Sat 27-Apr-13 17:06:15

Surely they could find him through his tax records? I probably would tbh. If he's being cocky and unpleasant about it.

noddyholder Sat 27-Apr-13 17:06:45

Just no.

bubblesinthesky Sat 27-Apr-13 17:07:07

Flossy he's very successfully self employed. I don't really know how it works

mrsjay Sat 27-Apr-13 17:08:05

TBH I am not sure how they get away with it tbh but my sister didnt pay but was working for 3 years she was earning good money But dont they need to reach a certain income before they take it off your salary

mrsjay Sat 27-Apr-13 17:08:35

Flossy he's very successfully self employed. I don't really know how it works

he wont be declaring his full income I dont think

IfNotNowThenWhen Sat 27-Apr-13 17:10:18

?? So...you did the "right thing", and he took a chance, and screwed his credit up for 6 years, and now you want to shop him?
You made a choice, he made a choice. It's none of your busness to intefere with his choice. He hasn't interfered with yours.

caroldecker Sat 27-Apr-13 17:17:48

in the mid 90's, it was not paid back through tax, you set up a direct debit. Yes shop him - he would not have suffered bad credit as they lost contact with him, so could not put it on his record - if they knew where he was they would have taken him to court

GlassofRose Sat 27-Apr-13 17:27:37

Shop him.

Turning blind eyes to people like him is a reason why we all end up paying more for things. Shops charge more to cover thieves, insurance goes up to pay for those who drive without it...

jamtoast12 Sat 27-Apr-13 17:30:58

I took loans out at a similar time and equally haven't paid mine back as I only work 2 days so under the threshold. They will wipe out in 8 years. I'm sure he declares a lower income which is pretty common in people who are self employed. Most accountants are experts on how to do this. Even if you shop him he likely declares a lower income for tax purposes which so won't be liable to pay anyway. The threshold is something like 25k and most self employed I know assess their wages less than this.

To report him would be a very jealous thing to do IMO as its non of your business.

crossparsley Sat 27-Apr-13 17:31:11

This isn't a victimless crime (are any?)
People making and influencing decisions now (HMT, the NAO, the Office for Budget Whatsits) are making judgements about HE funding based on info like how many people don't repay loans. Lots of people don't for good reasons, because their personal circs don't allow it, but your friend is skewing things against people in more need than him, and against all taxpayers, most of whom are likely in tighter circumstances than him. He's a twat.

morethanpotatoprints Sat 27-Apr-13 17:32:51

He will know its you if you report him. My lecturer at uni did the same and after a while it becomes void anyway. I think he's due to retire soon, lol.

If you do the right thing, you can always sleep at night. If others can sleep at night by doing wrong, well good luck to them because I wouldn't want to be them.
Be righteous, because you are an honest, good person.

mrspaddy Sat 27-Apr-13 17:33:11

This would really annoy me.. I went to Uni about this time in the UK and even though I moved to Ireland and possible might have got away with it I paid every penny of my student loans back. This was via teaching full time and working in a Care Home at weekends.. But would I shop him.. I don't know.
Life has a funny way of working out. I now have a very cosy job and no guilt or worry someone is going to knock on my door. I probably wouldn't.

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS Sat 27-Apr-13 17:35:02

I would leave it. Seriously you sound jealous and weird. I have a male friend (ex partner in fact) who also did this. It's nothing to me. I am glad his life is going well and that he is not burdened by debt.

andubelievedthat Sat 27-Apr-13 17:43:12

A.K.A.. jelous of all the (apparent) shiney stuff he (seems)to have ,you want same ,can"t have it at the minute so ,hiding behind "good citizenship" your going to dump him in it because really, you want him brought down a peg or two. If you are so concerned about the hardship of others ? why not go work in local charity shop

Cherriesarelovely Sat 27-Apr-13 17:47:00

I don't agree at all that this has "nothing to do with you". I'm surprised others think this. I'm not sure I would shop him but I would certainly tell him I thought that was wrong and immoral. It reminds me of an old friend who used to do an "insurance scam" most times she went on holiday. I used to tell her I thought it was really dishonest and it pissed me off when other friends made genuine claims and got a hideous grilling because of dishonest people like that.

GlassofRose Sat 27-Apr-13 17:49:55

I was thinking exactly the same Cherrie. It appears others don't seam to realise that the rest of us end up paying more and get a rough deal because of arseholes like him.

TiredyCustards Sat 27-Apr-13 17:55:09

HE should be free - good luck to him <runs>

CloudsAndTrees Sat 27-Apr-13 17:55:24

I would leave it. If the student loan company were doing their job properly, they wouldn't have lost track of him. It's as much their fault as it is his.

GlassofRose Sat 27-Apr-13 17:58:35

Clouds - So if I stole a Mars bar from Asda would it be their fault for not having a good enough security guard?!

CloudsAndTrees Sat 27-Apr-13 18:05:37

Presumably you don't have a contract with Asda, or provided them with any of your personal details.

I'm not saying that this guy hasn't done anything wrong. Clearly he has and his attitude stinks. But the bank does have some responsibility for this as well. It's not as if they're going to start handing out cheaper loans if they catch him.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DinoSnores Sat 27-Apr-13 18:08:58

Turns out Margaret Thatcher was right - there is no society or responsibility towards society judging by some of these responses!

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Longdistance Sat 27-Apr-13 18:14:24

Don't worry, just leave it.

Karma will come and bite him on his arse soon smile

Snazzynewyear Sat 27-Apr-13 18:19:37

I would shop him. He knew he was incurring the debt - much less than is the case with students now - and he should pay his debt.

TheChaoGoesMu Sat 27-Apr-13 18:20:34

I guess you're not friends with this person then. You won't be after you shop him in thats for sure.

mrsfassbender Sat 27-Apr-13 18:23:36

this is a tough one but I am amazed they have lost him when its all done via NI number. I agree that karma will get him, don't get involved.

iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii Sat 27-Apr-13 18:28:14

Shop him wink. I see it as theft.

My DC's will have to pay £9000 a year tuition fees I don't think they should contribute to paying off your ex friends debt.

MummytoKatie Sat 27-Apr-13 18:30:28

If Op went to university in the mid 90s then she (and he) did get a free education. Tuition fees didn't come in until 1998.

So the money was not for his education - it was for living expenses while getting the education.

Just thought I'd point that out in case it changed anyone's mind.

Personally I would say that this is much worse than a benefit cheat (that mumsnet is usually totally for reporting!)as he always planned to do it and in no way needs the money.

Have to admit I'd struggle to report though for either this or a benefit cheat although I'd want to as I always struggle with "trigger pullin" decisions. (1938, have a gun, Hitler, for example.)

jamtoast12 Sat 27-Apr-13 18:32:00

I second what I said before, its not worth you shopping him as he's self employed!!! No one who is self employed declares their true income - that's the main benefit of being self employed. He will find out, he still wont 'earn enough' to lay and you will look bitter and jealous.

as for threw students, its estimated more than half will never pay back theirs either.

jamtoast12 Sat 27-Apr-13 18:32:14

For new students...

Billwoody Sat 27-Apr-13 18:38:29

Jam toast you are talking crap - I am self employed and I declare my full income. Are you and don't you? Is this why you hold that view?

FlowersBlown Sat 27-Apr-13 18:39:56

I wouldn't shop him. I would be interesting to know what the repayment rates are on those early loans. It is incredibly easy to get out of paying them because they rely on self disclosure of income. If you change bank account and your parents have moved house they don't seem to be able to find you either.

jamtoast12 Sat 27-Apr-13 18:42:45

I am not self employed... I'm actually a teacher but don't earn enough to pay mine back. If i did, i would have to pay and i have to defer every year so very much in the system.

I do know lots of people who are self employed and its pretty common amongst most I know. Indeed i have a few friends who work as subcontract accountants for companies and they know every trick in the book about fiddling incomes. It's pretty much standard in many companies even if you don't do it.

(I'm not saying I agree with it just that even the most 'honest' of companies have ways of dividing their income for tax purposes etc.

ryanboy Sat 27-Apr-13 18:45:22

whay would you want to do that? Jealousy and spitefulness are so often dressed up as social conscience on mumsnet

jamtoast12 Sat 27-Apr-13 18:49:32

flowersblown

On the old loans I have (from say 1996-2002) you need to earn approx £2450 gross before you need to pay and you pay back about £30 per loan per month. This is a set rate once you hit this threshold. You can defer if you earn less and they are wiped out after 25 years (I believe the new loans wipe out too in this way but you pay a % back - from conversations with friends kids etc, the repayments on the new loans are less than the old ones for those on average incomes but obviously more on higher incomes compared to the old loans). (Given most have 3-4 loans).

expatinscotland Sat 27-Apr-13 18:49:46

Shop him. There is NO such thing as 'karma', what a load of steaming wank.

Billwoody Sat 27-Apr-13 18:50:29

JT you make a good point. I have an accountant myself and I find i do not always take his advice. It upsets me that others think that all self employed take the piss though.
OP you should shop him - as others have said he has taken money that does not belong to him, had a free education and is of the age as I am that will have benefited hugely from house price inflation.
And he deserves it for being a crowing arse. <gavel>.

ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmmmmmmmm Sat 27-Apr-13 18:58:51

Listen to all the people telling you it's none of your business, it's envy on your part, it's someones elses fault.

Spookily, the very same posters will be back on other threads moaning and hand wringing about cuts to government spending.

Completely oblivious to any connection. grin

MummytoMog Sat 27-Apr-13 19:07:15

Still paying mine back, started in 1998. Shop the fucker.

I wouldn't shop him, it's none of your business.

I don't agree that a self employed person using an accountant to use legal ways of lowering a tax bill is taking the piss. Self employed people get no paid holiday, basic maternity, harder to get a mortgage etc. They need something to balance that out.

HoHoHoNoYouDont Sat 27-Apr-13 19:21:49

I'm sure I read once that there is a certain amount of time they have to make you pay and if they can't find you within that time you're basically home and dry. Off to google it.

QueenOfIndecision Sat 27-Apr-13 19:22:35

i would probably shop him as it's stealing from all of us really.

HoHoHoNoYouDont Sat 27-Apr-13 19:24:38
FasterStronger Sat 27-Apr-13 19:30:01

I would shop him. There is no free money.

zeno Sat 27-Apr-13 19:32:00

I'm surprised at the presumption that self employed people do not declare their incomes. Do you realise how rude it is to say that?

IntheFrame Sat 27-Apr-13 19:32:04

Well I hope you tell him that you are planning to do this. Because obviously as a moral person you have the courage of your convictions...

jamtoast12 Sat 27-Apr-13 19:32:46

I don't understand how anyone from that era of loans is still paying back unless you have all been deferring? The loans back then were designed so that all debt was paid back after 5 years? The payments per loan ensured that? (and they we independent of income as long as above threshold)

picnicbasketcase Sat 27-Apr-13 19:36:19

I wouldn't do it, but if you feel it's the right thing to do rather than just doing it to be spiteful then fair enough. Do the Students Loans Company even have a 'shopping people' department?

FarBetterNow Sat 27-Apr-13 20:11:19

OP: The replies would ALL be for shopping him, if he was falsely claiming unemployment benefit and working.
Isn't it odd that it is ok to do Student Loan fraud, but totally not ok to to do Benefit Fraud?
No doubt he can afford to pay it back, but has chosen not too.

Of course only scum bags living on council estates commit fraud, working middle class people just do creative accounting.

SmellsLikeWeenSpirits Sat 27-Apr-13 20:20:17

Actually I don't think this is uncommon. I know a number of people who have never been contacted about their old student loans. As I understand it the student loans company was sold and bought a number of times over a fairly short period and it seems a chunk of records went missing somewhere

SmellsLikeWeenSpirits Sat 27-Apr-13 20:21:08

Not that that makes it ok, but a 'they've never asked' is slightly different to actually, outright deception isn't it? A bit?

ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmmmmmmmm Sat 27-Apr-13 20:48:57

Depends if you are honest or not.

plinkyplonks Sat 27-Apr-13 20:57:40

He may be declaring income that is under the SL threshold.. lots of people do this i.e. pay themselves 14k a year and invest the rest of the business earnings back into the business.

fancyabakeoff Sat 27-Apr-13 21:30:44

Exactly what FarBetterNow said.

The hypocrisy makes me sick.

CSIJanner Sat 27-Apr-13 21:38:37

If he took a v early student loan, then possibly he could have it written off after x amount of years, but if he has deferred at some point since finishing Uni, then he has acknowledged the loan and therefore has to pay within 6 years or they would haven take him to court to ay him back. This is true of any loan (Limitations Act 1980) but it will affect your credit rating and remain on file as a debt. I'm not even sure if they could recoup it from an estate after death.

YANBU to want him to the the moral and legal thing praying back a loan. A mortgage is a loan but I bethe pays his back. The difference is a mortgage is secured against his home which is a large tangible thing whose loss will affect him. The student loan is underwritten by the Government using taxes - it doesn't bother him as much as he's looking at the smaller picture. Whether you contact them with his details is up to you - personally, I probably would after bouncing the morals off DH. It's theft - just because its a company, doesn't make it right. If he couldn't afford it, then it's filling out papers once a year to defer.

thermalsinapril Sat 27-Apr-13 21:46:57

Yes, tell them. It's not fair on everyone else if someone does this.

OP: The replies would ALL be for shopping him, if he was falsely claiming unemployment benefit and working.

Mine wouldn't. I'm a higher rate tax payer and have never claimed benefits but there is no way I would shop someone. It just goes against everything I believe in.

JenaiMorris Sat 27-Apr-13 22:04:42

SLC were rubbish. They took hefty repayments from my friend despite him having deferred and being on a very low income (pre NMW, so bloody low). They were also crap at tracking people.

Fuck 'em quite frankly.

Save the ire and righteous indignation for successive governments who've taken first grants and then free higher education away whilst reaping the benefits of their own fully funded degrees.

As an aside, those graduates who attended uni in the 80s not only received grants (subject to parental income) but could also claim housing benefit and dole in the holidays.

quoteunquote Sat 27-Apr-13 22:06:19

amtoast12

No one who is self employed declares their true income - that's the main benefit of being self employed

hmm

I don't appreciate your generalisation,

I certainly do declare my true income, as does my husband, why assume everyone is a corrupt or a thief ?

I can't be bothered to be dishonest it makes life far to complicated,

I don't want to live in a shit society, so happily pay into supporting my community , and I value myself worth, so lying about my income has never been on my agenda, it would be self defeating pointless short term gain behaviour.

So please do not imply that everyone who is self employed is a criminal, it's fucking rude.

OP, Just tell your friend that his behaviour made you feel like reporting him, and move on, maybe you can remain friends, and maybe he will take on board why you feel the way you do,

Education should be free, it's is and was a totally stupid decision to charge for education, we are all going to pay the price.

If you are planning for a year, sow rice; if you are planning for a decade, plant trees; if you are planning for a lifetime, educate people

Confucius

ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmmmmmmmm Sat 27-Apr-13 22:09:53

See, fraud and theft is actually striking a blow for todays students...

Advise somone not to pay what they owe to the government, and at the same time moan about cuts.

I wish I could say, unbelievable.hmm

plinkyplonks Sat 27-Apr-13 22:37:27

I think some of you are purposefully mis understanding. It's not that you get away with paying less tax ?! You set up your own business where you are the single employee, you set your income to 14k which means you won't trigger the SLC payments and instead the business retains the rest of the money. The people I know who have done this have now managed to take on new staff who all pay NI, tax etc on their incomes because they invested that money into their business instead of fleecing all the money out of the business. The upside is that they don't pay student loan but the downside is that they don't get to enjoy the full benefit of their potential income.. at the end of the day, would you want to earn 14k instead of 40k if you could choose? SLC payments are only £200 or so a month.. thats nothing compared to a £900 v £2100 per month pay packet.

Would you call parents who work part time because they are better off with a mix of benefits and income rather than working full time benefits cheats? Or tax avoiders?

The OP has no idea if the person she is speaking to is tellling the truth or not or what their real financial position is. If the person is taking home 40 k a year then it is up to him/her whether she choses to report him or not. Obviously he is probably going to guess it was him/her that reported them to SLC, so it's up to OP whether she is willing to risk her friendship on this. But what if he/she is wrong - she's going to ruin a friendship and basically slander an innocent person on this forum?

It's up to the OP what they want to do.. I'm not sure what benefit it is to put this on an internet forum when he has no opportunity to defend himself?

gallicgirl Sat 27-Apr-13 22:46:41

I'm still deferring one of those old style loans. Just another 8 years to go before its written off.

For the record, I've worked for the government ever since I graduated and I'm not likely to ever earn over the deferment threshold.

ShellyBoobs Sat 27-Apr-13 22:53:32

I wish I was shocked that a lot of MNers think it's ok to defraud public finances but unfortunately "it's none of your business" seems to be the stock answer to many questions here.

Obviously when there are cuts because there's no money left then all hell breaks loose but hey, there's no connection between too little money coming in and having to make cuts to public spending, is there?

confused

If you saw someone stealing from a hospital would you say nothing?

It's the same thing.

gallicgirl Sat 27-Apr-13 23:02:11

Does the money for repaid student loans go into government coffers it is it kept by the finance companies? I know my loan has been sold a couple if times to a new company so I'd be surprised if it goes to the government.

OP, how do you know what he earns? Unless you're his accountant or his mother you haven't got a clue. He was probably just spraying shite to talk himself up and you've got your arse in your hand about it.

KareninsGirl Sat 27-Apr-13 23:35:43

Don't shop him.

Student loans are disgusting and unnecessary. There are other ways to finance FE.

I really feel for students nowadays.

thermalsinapril Sun 28-Apr-13 00:18:29

> there is no way I would shop someone. It just goes against everything I believe in.

What do you believe in? Letting people getting away with things at the expense of others?

GlassofRose Sun 28-Apr-13 10:51:38

Yes, the price of student loans are disgusting kareninsgirl!

So why would you think it's okay to allow people to get away with it when prices go up for honest paying students to cover the missing money created by those who don't pay back what they owe?!

Snoopingforsoup Sun 28-Apr-13 11:05:36

I thought all debt over 6 years old was statute barred?
The problem lays with The Student Loans Company who should have done everything possible to catch him in that 6 year window.
It's sickening that some people get away with it - but I suspect he has.
Let it go and maybe get some friends with less dubious moral standards.

jamtoast12 Sun 28-Apr-13 11:13:55

Glassofrose

Prices are set, they don't go up for those paying, you only pay your own personal debt? I borrowed 5k and it incurrs infalation costs. whether you do or don't pay doesn't directly affect anyone else in terms of their payments.

Of course in the long term, the way the loans are administered etc is affected by lots not paying but that includes the thousands of people who genuinely don't earn enough and the government admit freely that the majority of new applicants will never repay their loans. They are relying on the top earners to do that which in itself is not a fair principal.

They can't lose track, you're tracked through your NI number which you have to give to your employer to pay tax

hermioneweasley Sun 28-Apr-13 11:43:04

There is no magic pot of money - if he doesn't pay it back when he has hit the threshold he is stealing from the government. I would tell SLC where he is. No better than tax evasion or anything else which is taking from the government purse things you are not entitled to.

Can't believe the "none of your business attitude" or the "I disagree with fees so it's ok". My taxes get spent on plenty of things I don't agree with - woukd the same people say it's ok for me to lie and avoid on this basis?

Southeastdweller Sun 28-Apr-13 11:48:28

It's none of your beeswax - haven't you got better things to be doing with your life? You're envious of what he's done, aren't you? Great friend you are.

Was a student during this period, too. SLC are crap at getting people to cough up, not like now when they can track graduates through (I understand) tax or/and N.I. I graduated 13 years ago and could still either be deferring now if I wanted to (without giving them proof of what I earn), or I could leave a blank trail like your 'friend' has done. Lots of folks do either this. Me, I'm nearly done now paying.

Well I hope you tell him that you are planning to do this. Because obviously as a moral person you have the courage of your convictions...

Yes, that. Let us know, eh?

GlassofRose Sun 28-Apr-13 11:51:26

Jam - I'm a current university fee payer so I know how they work.

I wasn't implying next week the fees going to go up for me to cover this twat fee invader the OP knows; I was talking about long term fee increases.

Why should people like myself pay these increased fees when someone else proudly admits to dodging theirs? He isn't just stealing from the fee people, he's stealing from everybody.

themaltesecat Sun 28-Apr-13 11:51:27

Hope your spite doesn't come back to bite you on the arse, OP.

IfNotNowThenWhen Sun 28-Apr-13 12:25:09

It's not fraud though, running from student loans. It is evasion.

I actually wouldn't shop anyone for benefit fraid, as, while I think it is wrong, it is a tiny tiny drop in the ocean compared to corporate tax fraud.
I know loads of people who would shop someone claiming disability and doing the odd bit of free lance work.
My God, they would be frothing self righteously about "our tax money". Strangely, the same people accept that large companies pay zero tax, and we have to fund the NHS etc without their help.
Much easier to pick on a peer than address the things that actually affect us (and sorry, but a guy evading a near 20 yr old loan doesn't affect a damn thing in the scheme of things).

jamtoast12 Sun 28-Apr-13 12:25:10

Buy the fees incurred are only inflation aren't they or are the new ones different?

IfNotNowThenWhen Sun 28-Apr-13 12:27:28

And, yes, the student loans company is a private finance company.

lottieandmia Sun 28-Apr-13 12:32:33

Re: the fact that he is self-employed.

Isn't this a bit like the CSA trying to get money of someone self-employed? The unscrupulous seem to be able to wriggle out of it by making it look as if they earn less than they do.

LaGuardia Sun 28-Apr-13 14:04:05

His only mistake was telling you that he had got away with it. Some friend you are for asking the question. Good luck to him. I have walked away from every debt I ever had. It is called bankruptcy. So very easy.

GlassofRose Sun 28-Apr-13 14:13:34

Sorry Jam toast, but did you bother to read what I actually wrote?

andubelievedthat Sun 28-Apr-13 14:18:15

There"s no free money,FasterStronger, ?really? i would suggest Hmm thinks a bit,oh i remember now, one say Philip Green> thats the billionaire bloke who own a lot of whats in/on the high st , having his empire in the name of his beautiful wife who ,surprisingly, is faffing about in Monaco, therefore paying a smidge of tax on British earnings ,instead of the gazillions he would pay to Britain if his tax affairs were otherwise, funnily ,thats "smart use of current tax laws" oh thats ok then ,and as other post suggests , (like your soon to be X friend) ,he was probably talking piss,as a lot of fellas do, when chatting to their mate.

specialsubject Sun 28-Apr-13 15:17:12

he's a thief. Shop him.

all those who say 'let him get away with it' - would you feel the same if you were burgled?

FasterStronger Sun 28-Apr-13 15:37:48

andu - do you think PG would stay resident here if he was forced to pay significantly more tax?

I don't. so how do you tax someone who will move countries if you apply in their view too much taxation to them?

however I fail to see how the govt difficulties in personally taxing a highly mobile person relate to another taking the States money that was lent to them on the basis it would be repaid if their finances allowed.

DontmindifIdo Sun 28-Apr-13 16:25:35

I would say tell them where he is. He might be able to wriggle out of paying being selfemployed, but possibly not.

noddyholder Sun 28-Apr-13 16:28:09

I don't agree with what he is doing but don't think you need to get involved. They will catch up with him or maybe not. None of your business though.

delboysfileofax Sun 28-Apr-13 16:52:16

Not your business I'm afraid. Good luck to him. Why should it only be the big corporations who fuck around paying what they're due? If it was me or my kids I would tell them to do the same.

Besides I thought the students loans company was a private company? As your friend is a tax payer he could see it as a personal rebate for the bail out

Ashoething Sun 28-Apr-13 17:20:08

I know someone who hasn't paid back their student loans. Finished uni in 1998. She occasionally gets letters from them but just bins them. Is this debt now statute barred as she seems to believe it is?

jamtoast12 Sun 28-Apr-13 17:28:21

Loans taken out back then run out after 25 years so she won't have to pay after that. Your friend took out loans when I did, then university fees didnt exist, the loans were merely for living expenses. They were not linked to your employer. The payments are taken by direct debit from your account which you supply through a direct debit agreement.

When I cancelled a payment (as they didnt act on time for my deferment) they just wrote me a letter asking why. They didnt have the authority to just take the money from my account. I believe the new loans are totally different and linked to national insurance etc. I imagine if I closed my account, the Slc company would not be able to just take money. Of course I'd imagine they'd pursue it in other ways though in your friends case, maybe they don't.

ShellyBoobs Sun 28-Apr-13 18:41:57

Good luck to him. I have walked away from every debt I ever had. It is called bankruptcy. So very easy.

It's a good job we don't all do that, because everyone else has to pick up the tab for it.

We would probably be (quite rightly) classed as cheating cunts if we all let someone else pick up our debts instead of paying them off.

ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmmmmmmmm Sun 28-Apr-13 23:01:24

Good luck to him. I have walked away from every debt I ever had. It is called bankruptcy. So very easy.

Scummer.

BeeWi Mon 29-Apr-13 04:29:01

Why would you stay in touch with somebody you're not friends with?

TheFallenNinja Mon 29-Apr-13 04:47:50

Is this really what we have come to.

Thumbwitch Mon 29-Apr-13 04:51:24

"As an aside, those graduates who attended uni in the 80s not only received grants (subject to parental income) but could also claim housing benefit and dole in the holidays."

Early 80s, wasn't it? By the time I started university in 1985, housing benefit was on its way out, iirc (I wasn't claiming it as I lived at home). I didn't claim the dole in the holidays either, I worked, so I don't know when that stopped.

That would annoy me! I have never earned enough to have to pay mine back but I did. Actually DH paid the last bit off for me as a surprise, it was lovely knowing I no longer had it hanging over me.

Mrstyphoo Mon 29-Apr-13 13:49:18

I had to give 2 references when I applied for my first student loan. I know one of those references were contacted when they lost track of me after I become a sahm.

For info I will never go back to work, so I shall never pay mine back either. I fill out a referral form every year.

ryanboy Mon 29-Apr-13 15:51:01

I started Uni in Oct 86 and got HB

Stubbed56 Mon 29-Apr-13 16:01:23

I would probably shop him, but only if the student loans co asked for details. In fact I sort of did this when the tax office asked for the previous owner's new address when I bought a house. I didn't really think of it as a moral question. Although this is slightly different as you might have to volunteer the info without being asked.

edwinamerckx Mon 29-Apr-13 16:29:41

It used to be trivial to do a runner on student loans as when they were first introduced they were not payed back via tax and the SLC had no record of your NI number.

So all you had to do was move (which everyone does after university anyway) and change your bank account and you were debt free. I know loads of people who did this.

Vickibee Mon 29-Apr-13 16:38:21

It you are Se there is a box on the end of year form that asks if you have a SL. If he fails to tick the box, then it is a fraudent return but they will catch up eventually. He will get a bill going back years asking for repayment. You can run but you can't hide

Vickibee Mon 29-Apr-13 16:39:55

Student loans are not written off with bankruptcy I do believe

JenaiMorris Mon 29-Apr-13 17:33:39

Thumb, I had friends who claimed both dole and HB in the holidays. And worked cash in hand. They were still broke hmm

lougle Mon 29-Apr-13 17:48:20

Student Loans are exempt from Bankruptcy. They persist through it. 'Tis the law.

BiteTheTopsOffIcedGems Mon 29-Apr-13 17:48:50

I never understand why people that do things like running away from debt or commiting fraud feel the need to tell everyone they know.

greenformica Mon 29-Apr-13 18:01:11

He may not have to pay it back anyway if he earns under a certain amount.

andubelievedthat Mon 29-Apr-13 19:24:22

No , you seem to understand little ?> (doh) as "grassing someone up " >"dobbing them in it " is in my opinion a moral decision ,Q>why do you comer onto a website and ask others whether you should ? by the time you have read thru all these replies you could have "made that call " ,what is stopping you? and are yoiu going to tell him you did so?bet you do not.thats the thing with the public spirited tossers so prevalent these days ,they always HIDE ,as you will ,i repeat ,u are one very jelous individual who lacks the courage of your (faux) convictions ,otherwise you would not be on this site seeking encouragement/approval.

PickledInAPearTree Mon 29-Apr-13 20:40:13

I think telling them would be plain weird. They do catch up with people and interest is chargeable in the interim.

samandi Tue 30-Apr-13 09:47:59

Have to admit I find it very hard to get my head around people who think "not telling" puts them on some kind of higher moral ground. Where on earth does that attitude come from? School playgrounds?

Of course he should be reported. If he has been self-employed then he has been actively deceiving the Student Loans Company. It's behaviour like that that makes life harder and more expensive for everyone else - including new students who won't have the benefit of a free education and easy job progression, house buying etc. like someone of that generation.

ryanboy Tue 30-Apr-13 10:52:01

I find it very hard to get my head around people who think "not telling" puts them on some kind of higher moral ground Where on earth does that attitude come from? School playgrounds?

Where does love thy neighbour come from? The bible?

ryanboy Tue 30-Apr-13 10:52:39

You have higher moral values than Jesus, then samandi ?

FasterStronger Tue 30-Apr-13 11:10:02

of course if everyone paid back their debts, it would be cheaper for the rest of us.

fewer defaulters = cheaper credit

melika Tue 30-Apr-13 11:30:04

Am I being thick but don't they have his NI number and can tell he is earning?

GlassofRose Tue 30-Apr-13 11:36:13

ryanboy - Jesus might about have been about forgiveness and compassion, but I'm pretty sure he'd say the right thing to do is actually pay the loan you took out...

jamtoast12 Tue 30-Apr-13 13:04:02

melika

The loans were taken out in the 90s e system was totally different then and NI numbers etc weren't linked to loans. For payments to be taken you have to sign a direct debit agreement. The Slc have since sold loans from then across several different companies. I know I have 4 loans split across 3 companies! I defer my loans as I don't earn enough but if I moved etc they would have no link to me

bubblesinthesky Tue 30-Apr-13 14:25:08

Wow went away a bit and have just rechecked this thread. I am non the wiser about what to do as the view is quite split.

to be honest i'm not jealous of him. Im happy and settled with a lovely DP and two amazing children and he is still single. The money does not matter really but the pinciple does. I remember him saying he'd never pay it back and it didn't sit easily with me then. I also hate the idea that the money isn't going bakc into the system for people who really need it now

However it seems its a pointless issue now sa it looks like it may have been covered by the statue of limitations so they wouldn't be able to get it anyway.

By the way he's not exactly my friend its just we've stayed in touch because we have mutual friends. I saw him at a party

Floggingmolly Tue 30-Apr-13 14:55:18

I'd shop him.

Southeastdweller Tue 30-Apr-13 20:57:53

Not your friend even though you have his address? hmm

JenaiMorris Wed 01-May-13 08:43:20

I don't think it is covered by statute of limitations for some reason, although happy to be corrected.

Still think it'd be crap to inform whoever now deals with the debt though.

melika Wed 01-May-13 09:22:45

Bubbles

I think by the power of deduction, he would know it was you. I know a few people who screw the system in one way or another and I have never dobbed them in. One day it will bite them in the bum.

I know it's not fair, but take credit for doing the right thing.

JenaiMorris Wed 01-May-13 09:46:53

Speaking from experience, having debt hanging over you is horrible. You can have a good income on paper, but a few strokes of bad luck and some poor and/or stupid decisions can make a relatively small debt of a few thousand seem insurmountable.

They'll catch up with him eventually. In the meantime you really don't know what's going on behind the scenes, so whilst I understand people's righteous indignation, leave it.

Plus the whole HE funding thing is a fucking outrage. Our ire should be directed at successive governments whose members gleefully enjoyed it all for free then pulled up the ladder behind them, not ata few debt evaders.

playg Wed 01-May-13 09:57:58

I used to run a company which consisted of just me. I paid myself wages that happened to be lower than the threshold for repaying student loans, and I received further money in the form of dividends.

I've always tried my best to book-keep properly and accurately, use a reputable accountant, and pay any money I owe to the government promptly - so I hope this doesn't come across too badly, but I didn't pay student loan as I believed I wasn't required to.

After about three years of doing this I got a letter from HMRC ... turns out the student loans payments are calculated on your entire income (so including dividend payments) and not just income from salaries as I had believed. I should've been calculating the required payments and including this on my self assessment form every year.

Luckily I had enough savings to be able to get together all those payments I'd been missing and pay what I owed in one lump sum, but I hate to think what would've happened if I hadn't been in the position to do that.

Btw. I do employ an accountant to do my self-assessment, and was angry with them for not asking me whether I had a student loan and making sure to include it, but then again I'm angry with myself for not taking the time to research the matter.

Anyways, my point is, your self-employed friend may 1) be liable for more repayments than he realises, 2) may eventually get a letter from HMRC.

fedupofnamechanging Wed 01-May-13 09:59:54

The people who brought in student loans and scrapped dole during the holidays, were the very people who themselves benefitted from free education. Therefore, I consider the imposition of student loans to be fundamentally wrong and if people can avoid paying it back, then all power to them!

fedupofnamechanging Wed 01-May-13 10:01:14

I also think that hiding behind anonymity is wrong - have the courage of your convictions. If you want to shop him, then that's your prerogative, but have the balls to admit you did it.

FasterStronger Wed 01-May-13 11:32:43

why one earth do you have to admit to someone on the fiddle you shopped them?

fedupofnamechanging Wed 01-May-13 12:00:15

Because if a person too ashamed to admit that they've done something, then perhaps they shouldn't be doing it.

If OP strongly believes that this man is wrong, then she should own that viewpoint and be prepared to act openly. It's underhand to do anything else and makes her no morally 'better' than him.

FasterStronger Wed 01-May-13 12:13:35

why would the OP feel ashamed about shopping someone?

he should feel ashamed.

ryanboy Wed 01-May-13 12:59:56

'why would the OP feel ashamed about shopping someone?'

then why not tell him?

FasterStronger Wed 01-May-13 13:01:08

because it will cause the OP trouble

samandi Thu 02-May-13 08:30:25

I also think that hiding behind anonymity is wrong - have the courage of your convictions. If you want to shop him, then that's your prerogative, but have the balls to admit you did it.

What nonsense. Of course you don't need to "admit it". The OP shouldn't need to put herself in an awkward position when she's not the one in the wrong.

samandi Thu 02-May-13 08:44:56

*I find it very hard to get my head around people who think "not telling" puts them on some kind of higher moral ground Where on earth does that attitude come from? School playgrounds?

Where does love thy neighbour come from? The bible?*

Um, ryanboy ... if we're on Christianity I believe one of the ten commandments is "Thou shalt not steal". Any kind of benefit fraud, like it or not, is stealing.

cathers Thu 02-May-13 08:57:56

I would be ringing SLC with his address!
As stated early, in the 1990s there were no tutition fees. Loans were applied for annually, I think about £3500, per year of the degree to pay for living expenses. Potentially £10K in total.

I recall plenty of students applying for these loans and either pissing them up the wall or investing them for a nice nest egg whilst relying on parental support for living expenses. I think it is time he paid back his loan if he can afford it.

I should be collect via his tax return if he is self employed, but it does seem to rely on you acknowledging there is SLC contribution to make. Likely that HRMC and the SLC just haven't connected his details yet. Do it.

StuntGirl Thu 02-May-13 09:15:02

I would shop him too.

fedupofnamechanging Thu 02-May-13 14:54:14

It's not benefit fraud - it's just not returning the cost of an education that the government (of the time) received for free themselves.

DontmindifIdo Thu 02-May-13 15:00:19

Karmabeliever - if it was a mid90s, this was pre-fees - they still got their education for free, I know several people who got them and then wasted them as their parents were giving them enough to live off. In my experience, the people who where a bit "meh, 5grand or 8grand debt, let's just have fun and worry about it later" weren't those who were using the loans, overdrafts and creditcards to live off, but those who were using them to have fun.

It's not benefit fraud, but it is still stealing. I have no problem with the idea of shopping him.

happyyonisleepyyoni Thu 02-May-13 15:01:58

I'm sure karma will get him in the end, one way or another.

fedupofnamechanging Thu 02-May-13 15:49:46

The fact still remains that the govt who imposed this, had the benefit of grants and dole in the holidays themselves, so shouldn't have been imposing charges for things that they received finance for.

Southeastdweller Thu 02-May-13 17:48:33

Have you decided what to do? If you do dob him in do you think he'll realise it was you?

samandi Fri 03-May-13 09:25:02

It's not benefit fraud - it's just not returning the cost of an education that the government (of the time) received for free themselves.

Um, he would have received a free education too.

And so what if people were able to claim the dole during holidays at one point? That changed. Deal with it. Compared to the students of today this guy got a very good deal.

fedupofnamechanging Fri 03-May-13 17:22:11

But that reduces everything to the lowest common denominator - just because someone else has it worse, we should be grateful for not having had it quite so bad!

Nelly000 Fri 03-May-13 17:28:44

The fact still remains that the govt who imposed this, had the benefit of grants and dole in the holidays themselves, so shouldn't have been imposing charges for things that they received finance for.

Rubbish.

Times change.

Lots of things are different from a few years ago.

fedupofnamechanging Fri 03-May-13 17:31:46

Different doesn't always mean better.

VerySmallSqueak Fri 03-May-13 17:35:21

I wouldn't tell.

samandi Sat 04-May-13 14:27:22

But that reduces everything to the lowest common denominator - just because someone else has it worse, we should be grateful for not having had it quite so bad!

I think it's unrealistic to expect things not to change. Student loans were introduced to help students afford university. More people go to university than fifty or so years ago - it's unrealistic to expect education to continue to be financed in the same way.

Someone who took out student loans in the mid 90s or so did not typically have it bad. There was a good chance they would have landed a job pretty soon and been able to pay off their student loan quite easily by the time they were thirty or so. I have friends that age and they are all doing very well. They certainly had more opportunity for further education than my parents' generation.

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