to think that putting your child in pants doesn't make them potty trained?

(78 Posts)
wreckedone Wed 24-Apr-13 12:14:15

I met an acquaintance at playgroup this morning,our lads are the same age and she was at great pains to tell me that he was potty training. Which is great, I know some friends' children have potty trained at this age (they're 23mo). But she then went on to tell me that he was in pants as he's allergic to pull ups-he was just using the pants like a nappy and weeing in them-I know all children have accidents when they're just starting out, but 3 times in under 2 hours?!
She kept making a big thing of how grown up her lad is, particularly when he grabbed a toy off my lad and my lad cried ("big boys like X don't cry"). AIBU to think she's a bit of a knob?

IMO YANBU

Pootles2010 Wed 24-Apr-13 12:16:34

Sorry don't know what you mean. She does sound a knob wrt your little boy crying though.

Do you mean she's not putting him on a potty? My ds didn't use pull ups either, I don't think most people potty training do as it confuses them?!

She said she was potty training, not that he was potty trained, and 3 accidents in 2 hours when they are starting out sounds about right as well. She doesn't sound like a knob at all confused

(apart from the last bit)

wreckedone Wed 24-Apr-13 12:33:45

She's not putting him on potty, just put him in pants and he's weeing in them like a nappy-sorry my post is a bit confusing!

Sirzy Wed 24-Apr-13 12:37:05

What is she hoping will happen if she doesn't put him on the toilet/encourage him to go to the toilet? Why not just leave him in nappies?

TheChaoGoesMu Wed 24-Apr-13 12:45:18

How would that work though. He'd be wet all the time. Perhaps she meant he is treating them like nappies, not that she wants him to treat them like nappies confused

fairylightsinthespring Wed 24-Apr-13 12:52:43

I think YABU - 3 accidents in 2 hrs is nothing frankly, DS has been known to get through 3 pairs of pants and trousers in 20 mins. Depends what stage they are at really, and ideally you might stay close to home in the early stages but as DS has taken nearly a year to train, that's not really possible. I would hope that at a toddler group there would be more sympathy / understanding / someone handing me a wipe than standing around with judgey pants on.

MrsMangelFanciedPaulRobinson Wed 24-Apr-13 12:58:29

My SIL did that when her son turned 2, just put him in pants, then he'd piss and shit everywhere. Nice

Ds is 17 months and wears pants in the house - if he needs a wee he'll get a nappy and rub it on his pants to let us know then we put him on the potty/put the nappy on. He is in no way potty trained nor are we attempting really to train him - he is choosing to go potty/get a nappy.

he is just being a baby and likes clapping hands when he's done.

I feel for the wee boy pishing himself all the time he must get sore sad

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Wed 24-Apr-13 13:01:32

YABU.

Potty training will always come with accidents, especially when they don't recognise the need to wee or poo.

You may be more understanding when you start...

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Wed 24-Apr-13 13:04:40

YANBU this is irritatingly common. Kids in underwear peeing and pooing everywhere.

It's stupid. There are far better and more dignified ways to teach.

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Wed 24-Apr-13 13:05:17

ItsAllGoingTOBeFine and therein lies the problem...when they don't recognise the need to poo or wee....then they should not be training.

DeWe Wed 24-Apr-13 13:09:36

He may have been fine in the house.
One of mine had almost no accidents at all in the week we were training when we stayed at home. But the first time we went out she had about 3 accidents in 2 hours. Basically she was too absorbed in playing she forgot, and because she was used to, in that environment being in nappies, she forgot she had pants on.
She was my hardest to potty train during the day, but she was out of nappies by 17 months at night. <smug emotion>
The other two basically they said they'd wear pants and that was it, hardly an accident at all.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Wed 24-Apr-13 13:09:43

But how do you know they know?

Dd only ever poos in toilet since she was a few months old. If she is in pants I need to take her to toilet regularly (every hour or so) or she will just wee herself.

What should I be doing?

BlackeyedSusan Wed 24-Apr-13 13:14:01

3 accidents in 2 hours sounds a lot to me too. they are ready to train when nerves are developed and they know when they need to poo or wee. surely you would keep them in pull ups until they are showing signs of needing the potty?

lunar1 Wed 24-Apr-13 13:14:15

I completely agree, my friend declared that her DD was out of nappies. she came round to my house which is carpeted. Her DD had 4 wees on my floor and two poos which she took her pants off for. Unfortunately I was too busy cleaning the previous mess to stop her pooing on my floor.

I saw the little open the door to my back room where DS1's little rocking eyore was so i picked it up and took it upstairs, my bloody friend had a tantrum with me as i was spoiling her DD's fun!

Funnily enough that was almost 2 years ago and I have never invited her back

Sirzy Wed 24-Apr-13 13:14:30

You know because they tell you they need the toilet or they are going to do a wee. If they can't understand that then IMO its best to leave them in nappies until they have that understanding.

if you wait until they are ready they can be trained in a few days, if you rush them it can take months.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Wed 24-Apr-13 13:19:25

But if she is in a nappy she will just wee without thinking about it. If she has an accident in her pants she will tell me straight away - does this not help develop awareness?

If she wees/poos on toilet she is totally aware of it.

She also never tells me if she needs a poo, she just waits until on toilet then does it.

cinnamonsugar Wed 24-Apr-13 13:34:45

but she was out of nappies by 17 months at night. <smug emotion>
DeWe Sorry to rain on smug emoticon smile, but posting this for anyone else reading who may be worrying about this. Being dry at night is a physiological (hormonal) development and nothing can be done to speed that up or influence when it happens. Often co-incides with the timing of potty training, but often it doesn't.

YANBU, OP and agree with other posters who say that that waiting until a child is ready means it takes days/weeks.

You can get pants that are absorbant - like cloth nappies, but cloth pull-ups instead. Your friend should invest in some of those.

ReallyTired Wed 24-Apr-13 13:42:27

OP, you can have the last laugh when her son is still pissing himself in six months time. Lots of accidents is normal for the first week, but most normal people don't take their children out at that stage. If a child is ready to be potty trained they will do it in a week.

"She kept making a big thing of how grown up her lad is, particularly when he grabbed a toy off my lad and my lad cried ("big boys like X don't cry"). AIBU to think she's a bit of a knob?"

Prehaps you should have said that big boys don't snatch toys and ask nicely if they want to play with some one else's toy.

With friends like that you really need emenies?

DeWe Wed 24-Apr-13 13:49:26

cinnamon I know. That's why I though I might get away with a smug emotion, because it's nothing I did. wink You're right though, I probably should have said it for others.

wreckedone Thu 25-Apr-13 11:29:30

Pants are cheaper than nappies-that's why she's done it. He had no awareness that he was about to wee, and didn't seem to understand where it had come from when he was wet. I've toilet trained several SEN children, so I have an idea of toilet training, I wouldn't put a child in pants if they had no awareness that they needed to wee/poo.
ReallyTired she's more of an acquaintance than a friend. I did point out to her that her son had snatched the toy, but apparently that's okay in her house. She's a CM too shock

Mintyy Thu 25-Apr-13 11:32:56

Yanbu. I had a friend like this. Her dd peed her pants constantly and she consequently had a mountain of washing to do every day. She was trying to do it too young. She was <whispers> a little bit competitive like that.

But the poor little dd was still doing it long after the rest of our NCT group's children were clean and dry. She totally messed up potty training.

SpanishFly Thu 25-Apr-13 11:42:07

imo, if he's having 3 accidents in 2 hrs, then he should either be wearing a nappy at playgroup or he shouldnt be at playgroup if she's determined to force him to potty train.
If theyre ready to be trained, then 3 accidents in under 2 hrs shouldnt really happen.
She's clearly trying to turn him into a grown-up child, but she'll regret it when he's no longer her wee baby...
And fwiw I have an acquaintance like this, and she's a bit of a knob smile

mrsjay Thu 25-Apr-13 11:46:55

she isnt training him she is letting him train himself imo you actually have to take them to the toilet she is being a bit of a twit but I know lots of parents who 'toilet train' like that,

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Thu 25-Apr-13 11:47:07

ItsAllGoingToBeFine I was told...and it worked for me, to wait until a child can discuss it properly.

My DD was 2 and a half before that happened...she'd tell me she was doing a wee or a poo and then she began to tell me she was ABOUT to.

Then she was toilet trained within a week. The same with DD2.

I'd ask of course.."Do you need a wee?" a lot....and then she'd say yes or no.

mrsjay Thu 25-Apr-13 11:49:28

I am of an age when potty training was done from birth an earlier age than now I didnt start till dd1 was over 2 people used to think I was being lazy <glares at the mother> she was using the toilet within a fortnight hardly any accidents

EssexGurl Thu 25-Apr-13 12:09:11

I hate this! Woman at work tried to make out her 2 yo was potty trained when it was obvious he wasn't. Having to get up 4 times a night to change the sheets is not potty trained. She let that one slip when she didn't realise I was there and was v embarrassed.

Stupid stealth boasting. Just ignore!!!

Cutiecat Thu 25-Apr-13 12:14:19

I amazes me the attitude people have to toilet training. You can teach a puppy to pee in a particular place, hell you can even house train a rabbit. Why do people think that a child is 'not ready'. And yes I do have children and when they could walk I started to sit them on a potty. It is a totally western idea they are not ready until they are 2-3.

Leave this woman alone to try to train her child. As long as she cleans up after him what is the problem.

cinnamonsugar Thu 25-Apr-13 12:48:27

cutiecat Puppies and rabbits that you can toilet train are comparable to 2 to 3 year old, or older, humans. Puppies, when they begin toilet training, are just a few months off sexual maturity and being able to have their own litters. It's a crazy comparison. A puppy that was equivalent to a young (under two) toddler, would be too young to be toilet trained properly. A child is 'not ready' when they don't have the ability to properly communicate or understand what's required - and then it takes a long time to 'train' them. It's not 'amazing' that people have worked out what works well - it's just logic and basic biology/child development.

SpanishFly Thu 25-Apr-13 12:51:29

Plus if a toddler isn't ready then they have 3 accidents in a short space of time

cinnamonsugar Thu 25-Apr-13 12:52:30

There is very little 'training' involved when a child is ready. It's pointless and a huge amount of extra work and frustration for everyone if you start long before that. Why toilet train for months and months if they are not getting it and can't get it rather than just wait until they can and then it's much easier and very little 'training' required. Each to their own, I guess. Children all get there by the same time more or less.

davidjrmum Thu 25-Apr-13 12:57:44

A friend came round a couple of years ago with their little girl who was potty training and in pants. We sat down to lunch on our covered chairs and she had an accident. They took her upstairs to get changed while I tried to dry the chair. When they came down, she sat on another chair and had another accident so they took her upstairs to get changed again. When they came back down they said that they had to go because they had run out of clothes to which I replied "and we've run out of chairs" smile

Sirzy Thu 25-Apr-13 12:58:06

Cutie what is gained by spending months training a child when they aren't ready?

ReallyTired Thu 25-Apr-13 13:00:56

Most people housebreak/ toilet train a puppy from birth. Children often find toilet training hard because they have been taught to wee in their clothes by being put in nappies. I experimented a bit with EC, but it wasn't until dd was 2 years 7 months when she was 100% out of nappies with no accidents.

There is nothing wrong with trying to toilet train a two year old. Sometimes it clicks and sometimes it doesn't. If after a week you find you are getting nowhere then go back to nappies for a few months. There are lots of approaches to toilet training and very few children go to school or even school nursery in nappies.

What is wrong is belittling a child whose parents have made different parenting decisions. Ie. making out that her son who is exactly the same age is a big boy and indirectly implying that the OP son is not a big boy.

Children vary a lot in development.

mrsjay Thu 25-Apr-13 13:02:30

learning to go to the toilet is a feeling and I really don't think little toddlers learn that feeling of needing to pee or poo until they are older it is common sense imo as i said before when I was going through it a lot of the children dds age were going through wet pants stage at 15 to 18 months It just felt a bit odd to me so that is why I went against the norm and waited until after her 2nd birthday

mrsjay Thu 25-Apr-13 13:03:23

what really tired said if it isnt working back in nappies and try again

FunnysInLaJardin Thu 25-Apr-13 13:04:59

YANBU and she sounds like a dick

GiveMummyTheWhizzer Thu 25-Apr-13 13:06:02

YANBU.

DS is now 2.7 and we potty trained 3 weeks ago with only 3 accidents total - but thats because I left it until I knew 110% that he was ready. I really couldn't have coped with 3 months + of potty training like some parents do (much respect those that have had to do this!!)

People were asking me from age 18 months onwards "when will you train" etc etc but my response was always "when I know he understands my instructions and also when he knows he wants to go".

I think its a bit mean to do it really if your child isn't ready sad

SpanishFly Thu 25-Apr-13 13:06:32

Hang on, I missed that she's a CHILD MINDER!! Wow, great attitude from a CM!

Cutiecat Thu 25-Apr-13 13:15:06

Sirzy, it has not taken me months to toilet train my children, just a couple of weeks and before the age of 2.

If you are interested in toilet training ages then this is a good article.

http://www.parentingscience.com/potty-training-age.html

Sirzy Thu 25-Apr-13 13:21:19

Thats great but some children don't train that quickly. Some quite simply aren't ready so their is no point pushing them.

cinnamonsugar Thu 25-Apr-13 13:25:48

There is nothing wrong with trying to toilet train a two year old. Sometimes it clicks and sometimes it doesn't. If after a week you find you are getting nowhere then go back to nappies for a few months.
Agreed.

cutiecat That's great that they were able to do it then. It means they were ready. Some kids aren't though and if parents persist, it can be difficult and take a long time.

Lonecatwithkitten Thu 25-Apr-13 13:40:55

Personally I believe three things need to be present for toilet training to work
1. Realising they need to go
2. Having the words to be able to say they need to go
3. The ability to be able to manage their clothing to go
Many research studies have shown that early toilet training is actual toilet timing. Most of us could do this as we are aware of when our DCs make their nappies wet or dirty.

OTTMummA Thu 25-Apr-13 13:54:42

One of my cousins was 'trained' very early because his GM was insistent on it, he ended up in hospital because of severe constipation because he wouldn't poo due to negative attention and pressure.

SS actually got involved because he had to go to hospital numerous times.

I believe that there is a nerve to the bladder that has to start working properly before a child can realise they need to do a wee/poo and it varies in each child when this happens.

I tried with DS at 2, 2.5, and eventually 3 where he responded very quickly, not even a week.

Maybe I am lazy, but I don't see why everyone is in such a rush to train children that are clearly not ready.
Childrearing is such a hard job already, why make it harder in such an unnecessary way.

I don't think it should be an issue unless your child is (NT) and still not fully trained by 5yrs old/reception yr.

TheChaoGoesMu Thu 25-Apr-13 14:08:40

I don't think they need to have the words or be able to manage their clothing. My son was a late talker but was still able to indicate he needed the toilet. And sometimes even now he needs help with his clothes. But he's still toilet trained.

FanjoForTheMammaries Thu 25-Apr-13 14:13:02

OP, why have you totally ignored the fact she said he is allergic to the pull ups?

Some kids have allergies to all sorts, my DD gets blisters if she wears polyester.

ReallyTired Thu 25-Apr-13 14:14:10

"Sirzy, it has not taken me months to toilet train my children, just a couple of weeks and before the age of 2."

Some children walk at 8 months and other children walk at 2 years old.

My daughter trained really easily. We did dabble with EC, but honestly it didn't work. I think that EC is a great way to reduce nappy rash and help the enviroment, but my daughter was not truely potty trained at an exceptionally young age. She managed to get the hang of poos at about 18 months, but too far longer to get the wees. Her bladder muscles were not strong enough.

I think that trying to catch every wee of a baby is recipe for a nervous breakdown. (The expression driving someone potty probably orginates from early potty training.) If you have older children then they need attention too. I favour putting a baby on a potty from about 6 months at each nappy change. (In our case 3 times a day)

However other parents have every right to do their own thing and have different children and families. Most children are out of nappies by three and unless there are special needs then they are usually out of nappies by four.

SpanishFly Thu 25-Apr-13 14:19:58

Fanjo You say "OP, why have you totally ignored the fact she said he is allergic to the pull ups?" - she hasnt ignored it, it's other posters who have said "why isnt she using pull-ups" etc.

The OP is simply saying why the hell is he in pants and not nappies, rather than peeing all over their playgroup.

FanjoForTheMammaries Thu 25-Apr-13 14:21:32

Well the reason given is that he is allergic to the pants!

So why ask "why the hell"???

ReallyTired Thu 25-Apr-13 14:22:01

This is what your friend needs

bright bots

SpanishFly Thu 25-Apr-13 14:23:45

He's allergic to pull-ups, not to nappies. so "why the hell" isnt he wearing a nappy?

FanjoForTheMammaries Thu 25-Apr-13 14:24:40

pullups and nappies are made of the same material?

FanjoForTheMammaries Thu 25-Apr-13 14:25:20

There is a tendency to dismiss allergies.

The poor mum was prob just trying to train him quickly because he was getting a sore rashy bottom from the nappies/pullups.

SpanishFly Thu 25-Apr-13 14:26:44

yes, they are the same material, which is partly why it's confusing that he's allegedly allergic to pull-ups only

FanjoForTheMammaries Thu 25-Apr-13 14:27:55

No, the mum probably just said pullups and didn't realise her use of words would be picked apart on MN tbh

SpanishFly Thu 25-Apr-13 14:28:19

ha, quite. smile

SpanishFly Thu 25-Apr-13 14:28:57

although i'd still be pissed off if a child was pissing all over the place where my child was playing

FanjoForTheMammaries Thu 25-Apr-13 14:32:12

Yes that's not ideal.

I am a big believer in everyone is just doing their best under their own circumstances though

pigletmania Thu 25-Apr-13 14:32:50

Yanbu she sounds silly. Shevs not potty training if she is not teaching him how to use the potty or toilet

fairylightsinthespring Thu 25-Apr-13 14:37:23

thing is, whilst I agree that in general you should wait until they're ready and then it should only take a few days or weeks, what happens when your DC is almost three and showing absolutely no interest or sign of readiness? We waited and waited with DS until he was 2.10. we took the plunge at that point because Dh and I are both teachers and it coincided with our long holiday so we could be home with him and not involve the CM at the early stages (who remained unsupportive for the entire process). Also many nurseries (as 3+ ones) would not be keen on a child still in nappies, though ours WAS ok, I could tell they were a bit fed up with the accidents It was very difficult to deal with actually, DH was very embarrassed and kept asking if there was something wrong with DS seeing as everyone else was trained before 3. All the GPs kept on at us to do it and seemed oblivious to anything other than the ages that DH and I trained which we heard ad infinitum. DS is 95% there now at 3.7 but still soaked through at night (nappies). If my friend, whose DS "trained himself" in two days at 2.10 and is dry at night raises her eyes at me one more time I may have to smack her hmm

SpanishFly Thu 25-Apr-13 14:59:16

fairylightsinthespring that's a different thing, tho. I think it is accepted that between 2-3 is the ideal age for MOST kids, but a 23mo pissing all over the place, and doesnt seem to even understand why, thats clearly too soon for him.
And by 3yo they're more understanding and aware, so it's often easier when they're older. Your case sounds frustrating and must have been a worry for you, but it's not "the norm".
Who cares what your friend thinks - I hate people that are competitive about things like this sad

FanjoForTheMammaries Thu 25-Apr-13 15:02:22

My DD had her first dry day yesterday...she is 6.5!! grin

SpanishFly Thu 25-Apr-13 15:09:52

aw, you must be delighted wine

Mintyy Thu 25-Apr-13 15:15:39

Yay for Fanjo's dd!

FanjoForTheMammaries Thu 25-Apr-13 15:29:27

yes grinwine

FanjoForTheMammaries Thu 25-Apr-13 15:39:17

still have a way to go , but she was dry at school!

wreckedone Fri 26-Apr-13 11:22:29

Fanjo I don't doubt he has an allergy to pull ups, but he doesn't have an allergy to the cloth nappies-which he was in until she decided to flog them and use pull ups. Now she's too tight to buy disposable nappies for him. She didn't clear up after his accidents either.

wreckedone Fri 26-Apr-13 11:23:34

He'd been in dispy nappies before and not had an allergic reaction to them.

Fakebook Fri 26-Apr-13 12:25:15

That is pretty disgusting. He's obviously not potty trained or training to use the potty if there isn't even an attempt on his behalf to run to the toilet/potty. Leaving a child in their own stinky piss is wrong. What an idiot.

Not commenting on an individual case that I don't really know enough about but I do find it frustrating when people think that their DCs are potty trained when what they really mean is that their DC will use a potty IF and ONLY if Mummy is running round after them with a potty in hand and can sense when they need it and manage to get their pants down and them sitting down before they do their wee! that was one very long sentence That is not potty trained!
Each to their own but my preference was to keep mine in nappies until they were "ready" and we had no accidents and mess to clear up. I hate vomit and poo and would far pay out for more nappies than clear up after the accidents. It doesn't appear to have done my children any harm either. On the other hand my own mother insists that I was potty trained at 13 months. in fact, I used the proper toilet rather than a potty!! Not sure I believe that, grin

FanjoForTheMammaries Fri 26-Apr-13 13:01:47

Tis just a wee bit bitchy to start a thread on here to slag off someone's parenting IMO, sorry

Oh come on Fanjo what else is mumsnet for? wink

goldenlula Fri 26-Apr-13 13:08:09

All children are different, ds1 was fully out of nappies urging the day by 19 months, with very little effort from me. We had a potty around from 11 months, I would sit him on it from time to time, very occasionally I would time it right and he would wee or poo on it. He then started using it on his own, I would go to the kitchen and come back and find a wee in the potty (pfb, loads of no nappy time as no other children to worry about). Went with it and he trained quickly and easily. Ds2 trained quickly at 23 months then went backwards after about 2 months and was a nightmare on and off for 6 months. He is nearly 5 now, but still leaves it to the last moment to go to the toilet.
Dd is nearly 2 and we have been potty training this week as she was showing signs of being ready. She is physically ready, in the sense she knows when she needs to go, she holds it etc but she is not keen on the feeling of the wee leaving her iykwim. For this reason I have up her back kin nappies when we are ou and about as I do not want her weeing everywhere.
This mum should be taking him to the toilet regularly and definitely cleaning up after him. Perhaps suggest the reusable training pants.

FanjoForTheMammaries Fri 26-Apr-13 13:09:45

well I might be a bit po faced but its supposed to be to support other parents wink

Not rip into them on a public messageboard

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