To think that this Reverand is rude?(220 Posts)
Df thinks IABU but I actually feel quite pissed off ATM.
So-we are getting married next year. We want to get married on a Sunday, in a church that is not our parish church but one that has family connections.
I emailed the Reverand to enquire about the date and ask if he would marry us (we were told by the Parish secretary to email not phone/call in). I got a reply the next day, saying that Sundays were 'not the best day for weddings as the clergy are busy and parishioners who need to attend may have family commitments'. He then went on to ask for details of the qualifying connection that would allow us to marry there so that we could discuss it further.
I emailed back later that day with details of the connection (df's grandparents marrying there) and also asked if there was any time of day we could marry on a Sunday that would be less inconvenient and thus allow us to marry on a Sunday.
I waited for a reply for a full week and nothing.
So, I forwarded the email again, and just said I wanted to check he had received it as I had n't yet had a reply.
He sent an email back saying (word for word) 'I have received your email but it is not quite to the top of my list. Regards'.
That was a week ago...and nothing since.
AIBU to think he's being 'off'? It's now been nearly a month since my first email and we're at risk of losing the provisional booking we have for our venue as we still don't know if he will marry us on that date.
Also, where do I go from here? What can I email him now? Just to stress also, I have been impeccably polite in all emails...I know that marrying in this church is a privelage not a right, but it is very special to df and I really want to be able to marry there for him...so want to move things along but not risk pissing this Reverand off!
Sorry it's long!
Churches don't usually marry anyone on a Sunday. Some Catholic ones do and some others but c of e ones not really.
Yes he was a bit rude.
He could have quickly emailed that he'll get back to you as soon as he can.
well........ you emailed and asked him something, he has replied and said that's not possible. You emailed back and whined a bit to get him to change his mind then wondering why he is not replying? It probably isn't the top of his list TBH - a couple he doesn't know wanting to get married in the church they don't worship at on a day when he doesn't do weddings
Most churches won't marry on a Sunday. Didn't you know that?
yes - perhaps he was a bit rude but maybe he's dealing with a really difficult funeral or something
He won't marry you on a Sunday.
I think it's his subtle way of saying "No".
He's probably busy with parishioners' problems. Perhaps he's had a run of funerals. Who knows.
If you really want to marry there then ask for a Saturday. Otherwise, get another church/venue.
It's difficult to know if he is being rude without seing transcripts of both sets of emails.
What is wrong with you parish church?
Maybe he was a tad off but to be honest you are giving away your lack of church going credentials by asking him to marry you on a Sunday and did you address him reverand? Its spelt reverend, I don't normally pick up on spelling but it may have counted against you. His priorities will be to his parishioners, are you sure you want him to marry you if you are feeling upset towards him already?
I don't think he's being that rude tbh. His email was a bit curt perhaps but I don't blame him for feeling a mite harassed if you've emailed him the same thing twice despite him already telling you that Sundays are actually quite busy days in churches.
He said no. He's allowed. He was trying to be polite, but he said no. You didn't "get" it and pushed him - so he told you every so politely to fuck off.
That's how I read it, anyway.
Surely you book your service before planning the rest of the wedding?
he had already said no which you didn't want to accept.
Did you explain why you would like to get married on a Sunday? Is it because of the reception venue? Is it a venue nearby? Are there many parishioners attending your wedding?
Also, he may need to double check the record of your grandparents getting married there. TBH it isn't the closest of ties, and he probably needs to find out what the church is planning around that time. There are usually a couple of services, concerts in the evening etc, which may be in planning stage and not yet finalised which need to be double checked.
I wouldn't call grooms grandparents wedding a family connection.
Are you for real?
You want to get married in a church that your fiancee's grandparents married in? So about 50 years ago then?
You want to get married on a day that C of E don't do weddings.
You've hassled the vicar.
Look just book a civil ceremony now. There is no way you're getting married in that church.
His Parish duties will take first priority, so I'm not surprised at the low priorit he has given a request for a wedding on a day he's already told you is not normally available at all. A connexion to the Parish from two generations ago probably isn't going to swing it.
Perhaps you could enquire in parallel at your respective home parishes. They have to marry you, but again might not be available on a Sunday. So best start thinking about Plan B.
His church might be different but ours has two morning services, usually 2 baptism services after that and then an evening service. Trust me you wouldn't want the vicar marrying you in amongst that, he'd be knackered and grumpy!
I have to agree with everyone else.
Churches don't hold weddings on Sundays - that's the day all the other services are.
For some exceptional circumstance, there might be s vicar who would agree to do it, but you are unlikely to qualify as that, as, from what I've read,
-you don't attend the Church
-you haven't ever attended the church
-you aren't the son or daughter of anyone who attends the church
-you don't actually live in the parish
-even the people you are claiming the connection to the church with (if I've read it right ?) just got married there, weren't members and regular attenders ?
It might not be ideal that he hasn't been able to write out a longer reply yet, after you didn't pick up the polite hint in his first e-mail, but I think he's got a point.
He wasn't rude. Bet he did have a good laugh though.
It's Reverend btw.
In my local church you would not be able to get married on a Sunday.
I think the vicar is saying no.
You have no real connection to that church.
There is no particular CofE reason for not having marriage ceremonies on Sundays. If it were my church, it would be pretty hard to fit around the four services, and activities we already have planned for Sunday afternoons. The vicar usually has Sunday lunch with some family or other is another consideration. A Sunday wedding would be exceptional and only reserved for church family.
We also insist on tourist couples attending an eight-week marriage preparation course (which is highly recommended for family couples too, although not enforceable).
Can you really not choose a different day (ie one that isn't a Sunday)? That seems like the obvious answer.
He said no to Sundays and you emailed pushing for him to change that which is quite rude. When he politely ignored you pushing, you quite rudely sent the email again. He was abrupt but he obviously realised the softly softly polite approach to your emails wasn't working. YABU.
Why do you need a Sunday? Look, you are being rather precious. Your wedding may be the be all and end all to you, but you can't expect everybody else to prioritise your day.
My dad is a vicar, and they are incredibly incredibly overworked and busy the whole time: hence the brief reply. I wouldn't take it as rude or as him brushing you off, rather just as his manner of talking: my dad doesn't know any 'corporate speak' and tends to email in a similarly straightforward manner!
I highly doubt he's going to move heaven and earth (pardon the pun!) to help you marry there on a Sunday: as others have said, his priority is to his parishioners (and his own sanity). If it has to be the Sunday, go for somewhere else.
I think the vicar means 'no'.
But even if he did mean there was wriggle room, you're not going to want to be married by someone you have taken an aversion to.
I think you need to look elsewhere for the ceremony. Good luck in finding a church that has the capacity to do weddings on a Sunday you'll need it!)
Vicars are busy, especially on Sundays. Many have more than one church to conduct a service at on Sundays, let alone more than one service a day in the one church!
The vicar was a bit rude perhaps but I think you might be being a little unrealistic. Having said that Sunday wedding at C of E churches are more commonplace now so you're not being completely out there in asking I suppose.
Maybe you got their back up with the very tenuous link - perhaps they're tired of people choosing the church because it's pretty or something, and expecting to be able to book it as they might book a register office or one of those specialist venues you see in bridal magazines. Some vicars are traditionalists like that.
FWIW, our church usually only does ordinary Sunday services and baptisms on Sundays. That's the busiest day of the week for a clergyman. Especially one that covers three parishes and has three Sunday services to fit in, like ours does. Reverends covering more than one parish is getting commoner these days.
Just another thought - at our church, there's a mid-week morning service, and the reverend usually stays at the church for an hour or so afterwards. During this time, he's available for people to come and talk to him about baptims, confirmations, weddings and funerals. He does this mid week as he's often more pressed for time after the Sunday service, as he covers three parishes.
If the church you're looking at does something similar, it might be worthwhile for you to go along and see if you can chat face to face, to see if there is a suitable alternative to a Sunday for you. But I really think you won't get anywhere with the reverend if you're set on a Sunday wedding.
I'm afraid I agree with others- you need to see this from his perspective. You email a request, he politely says no. You email again with no alternative proposal, pushing for something that is not common practice, in a church you have a tenuous connection to.
He is busy visiting the sick etc and doesn't reply, you email the same thing, again!
I'm afraid it doesn't look like getting married there is very likely, but if you want to try again I would suggest some alternative days.
If this is c of e then your family link is too tenuous, you need close family living in parish or to have been baptised there. Your future pil marrying there is not anywhere near good enough. My local reverend does three Sunday services plus there are also other church wardens etc to take into account.
He said no politely but you pushed it, look elsewhere.
Sorry, no I don't think he's rude. It's not his job to rearrange everything on an already busy day just to fit in with your reception plans. If this church is that important to you, you'll approach things in a very different way. Ask when the church is available, then organise the reception, (there's probably more than one venue in the area)
Churches are open on Sundays for acts of worship.I have never heard of a wedding on a Sunday.
Go for a stately home or something they only want your money so simpler.
a vicar who is dealing with funerals, grieving parishoners, sick parishioners, baptisms, visiting families etc and you are surprised that rearranging all this, to suit someone whose fiance's gran once got married in his church over half a century ago, isn't top of his priorities?
hmm. awful man.
Have you ever even worshipped at the church?
Usually this can only take place at the discretion of the church in exceptional circumstances so I wouldn't pin my hopes on a Sunday.
Maybe send one last email to explain lining up a venue, after that if no joy I would move on I'm afraid.
He's not obliged to you and sometimes they can be abit off especially if your request is not a priority like he said.
I, too, think that his initial answer really meant that it was not possible, and unfortunately you misunderstood and didn't pick up on that. Now he's probably irritated that you're still asking about it when he feels he's said no, while you're annoyed because you didn't realise he'd said no in the first place! It's a miscommunication, that's all.
Don't let it upset you. I would just accept that you will have to choose between marrying on the date you've chosen, or marrying in the church you wanted. But yeah, if you want a church wedding whether there or elsewhere then you'll get nowhere trying for a Sunday - in most churches they just don't happen. Pick a different day, and try again.
and why do you need a sunday? is it cheaper to get the reception on a sunday? or is the next day a bank holiday?
Eeek, I definitely wouldn't say you've already got a venue lined up. That will just wind him up even more. (Quite rightly so)
If it helps, I do think it was a bit off that he asked you to supply info about the family connection and then didn't just come back and say no. But he was probably just busy. In which case, instead of sending you the snotty email saying you weren't top of his priorities, he should have just confirmed no it wasn't going to happen.
Been to loads of weddings on a Sunday. Catholic.
My sister got married on a Sunday but she is a regular parishioner and it was all done to suit the vicar (who was also a guest at the reception!)
A lot of places offer a discount for the reception on a Sunday.
And please do stop saying 'Reverand'
Sunday weddings are unusual. I did get married on a Sunday
it was the church I had always attended (had been a Sunday School Leader at one point), parents live in parish and mother attends every week
we were planning a Saturday wedding later in the year when we discovered that now DH (who was in forces at time) had been told he was being posted in first Gulf Conflict - indefinite posting going in less than a fortnight.
We married under special license, service was immediately after regular Sunday Service - only our immediate family could attend at such short notice (no reception etc) but all the lovely parishioners stayed behind after service to attend and it was a lovely wedding, and thankfully DH returned safely a few months later.
I'm glad you mentioned that you've been to lots of Sunday weddings, puppy.
I assumed the OP's after a non-RC wedding, as the Sunday aversion seems to be an Anglican thing.
Apparently, if you get married on a Sunday in Scotland, the wedding service must be finished by 6pm.
I vaguely remember reading that on the "rules" thingy they give you when you apply for the licence.
So Sunday weddings must happen up here sometimes.
Jenai: I'm Catholic and have never heard of Sunday weddings. Our priests and churches are just as busy on Sunday as any other Christian ones. I would expect a similar response if the OP tried to ask for a Sunday wedding at my parish. Certainly at the churches I've attended there's never been a Sunday wedding.
I mean, no Sunday weddings hat I know of in the time I've been attending these churches. With our mass schedule I'm not sure when you would fit a wedding in on a Sunday.
I can give you the names and addresses of Catholic Churches that will do Sundays if you like Notts/Derbyshire
Tbh it doesnt seem a strong connection tbh.
Another Catholic here who has never heard of a Sunday wedding.
Where is the op now?
I don't think he was rude. He told you why Sundays might not work. Realistically, he may well not know until quite near the time whether or not a particular Sunday would be busy or not - which is why he can't answer you one way or another yet.
As he said in the first place, he may have other committments. This is partly a euphemism for 'I may have to do a funeral', I'm afraid. It is not uncommon for funerals to happen on Sundays.
I got married in a C of E church on a Sunday, because my vicar is lovely and squeezed me in at the last minute when someone else had let us down badly - this is how I know that quite often they keep sunday relatively free, because in addition to the usual services, you can't exactly book a funeral far in advance.
Sorry I think you have come across as pushy and treating the church as some kind of commercial establishment that should fit it with your plans.
Though I can see how his email was rude, and I can understand why he wrote it.
Also, your "link" to the church is very tenuous.
I'd think about somewhere else.
They do sunday weddings at my c of e church.
I don't think you were "impecably polite", your email came across as pushy and rude.
Nowadays most vicars do services at more than one church. Our current one does an early service at one, dashes off for a later service at another, then in the evening does an evensong at the church that had the early service. She wouldn't have much time to fit a wedding in as well. The vicar at our last church was in charge of four churches.
Although there is no reason why you can't marry on a Sunday don't you realise that Sunday is the busiest day of the week for vicars?
I don't think he was being rude. He told you in his first email that Sunday was no good and asked you for your family connection presumably if you wanted to see if any other day was possible. I'm not sure why you didn't get the hint the first time that Sunday was a no go?
You are being very unreasonable, or at least have failed to research how churches/parishes work. Are you even technically a member of the religious faith in question?
You don't say which this church belongs to, but I am a Catholic, and not only would the parish in which I grew up not marry anyone on a Sunday due to there being too many services already happening, at least one of the couple would need to be a communicating Catholic, and if neither of the couple was a member of the parish, they would need a letter from their own parish priest to say they were actually members of his congregation, and explain why they weren't marrying in their own parish church. And do a mandatory pre-marriage course.
It's not like booking a reception venue because you like the look of it, you know. Your link is very tenuous, and your re-sent email probably struck this man as rude and obtuse.
what does the vicar of the church you go to now suggest?
Sundays are not the usual day for weddings, you do understand why churches get busy then I hope!
OK, I'm found in church every Sunday morning (CofE before I emigrated, local Anglican since then).
Sunday is the day for holy communion, and that takes priority. Baptisms also take place on a Sunday, BUT 1. they only extend the service by about ten minutes 2. don't tend to result in the service being taken over by unfamiliar people in large hats and hired suits, professional photographers bossing people on the steps, or making the parishioners feel odd about having a cup of tea in their own church hall after the service because wedding guests are looking sidelong at them for even being there and 3. aren't a lot of extra work for the vicar.
I have been to one or two Sunday weddings, but they were for people who not only lived in the parish but were regular attendees too, so the weddings were very much parish events. I'm afraid what you want to do is essentially take over the Sunday service and I think quite a few regulars in the church would rightly object to that (pun intentional).
Also, if you require assistance from the Church, the place you should start at is the church in the parish where you live. I don't think the connection you describe is really of any importance.
I think the vicar might have taken a couple of minutes to reply to you, but I'm afraid I agree with others here who say that you're being a BU about this one.
YABU - for all the reasons above and for not listening to your fiance when he pointed it out to you first. If it's his family, why isn't he making the arrangements? Also, I would have thought a phone call would be a better way to introduce the request rather than an e-mail as you are essentially asking a massive favour which is always better done in person.
In defence of op Sundays at sit down meal type venues are usually a good 10% cheaper if not more - presume that's reason for Sunday wedding.
Vicars don't do corporate politeness. Most are pleasant but slightly odd. Am amazed he emails btw. Good luck but I'm not sure ur getting there. One more polite shot then I'd give it up. Offer donation?
Why can't you get married in the local church you worship in?
I would hazard a guess that this vicar is probably hacked off that you appear to have picked his church as a chocolate box venue for a wedding, that he feels that the important part (the wedding vows in front of God) are taking second place in your priorities to the reception venue and that he doesn't agree that the fact that your df's grandparents got married there decade ago is a "family link.
And then there's the fact that you've picked a Sunday. I'm surprised that there are people on this thread who say they've been to Sunday weddings. I have never, in all my years as a confirmed member of the C of E, attended or even come across one. It might be that the vicar feels you've shown your lack of church awareness by requesting one.
Give up the idea, and try for a secular civic ceremony.
It is definitely not the norm to allow weddings in a Catholic church on Sundays. It would be the exception to the rule.
They do occur. Been to several. That's by no means to imply either usual or that the couple didn't jump hoops of fire to get it. Just coz some haven't seen them doesn't mean they don't happen. (Long day and English appalling sorry)
I think ops done a runner, only off the thread one hopes....!
Why not have a civil wedding ceremony and arrange a blessing at this church some other time?
YABVVVVVU. You can marry on a Sunday in an Anglican church but it is unusual to do so. This is because many churches have 3+ services on a Sunday and it is difficult to set up for a service, dismantle everything and set up for a wedding, get rid of all the wedding guests and then dismantle and set up for another service. Plus weddings can only take place within certain hours, so there are time constraints.
The logistics of setting up weddings and services are usually done by unpaid lay people who often have other commitments, particularly on a Sunday. You may not know it, but you would be relying on the goodwill of strangers to be able to do this.
You do have a qualifying connection to the church under the new rules but you can't just pick a date and assume it will be OK. It's always subject to finding a date that is mutually OK and confirming the connection. If you were a regular at the church they would probably be pleased to accommodate you but as they don't know you, you are going to be low down on their priority list, especially now you have sent those emails. You shouldn't have booked a venue until you had a date confirmed.
Vicars also spend a lot of time giving pastoral care to people who are housebound, elderly, very ill, bereaved or who are going through fairly harrowing personal circumstances. This diagram may help. My money is on you having caught him at a really bad time, like after having to do a child's funeral or something.
It's also possible if it is a very pretty/impressive church that they are inundated with requests to marry there from people they don't know and it takes a while to get round to them.
Oh yes, email isn't ime the best way to contact a vicar - it would have been better to phone the parish office and set up a meeting.
Yep, think fairPhyllis has covered all the bases there.
OP: "I know that marrying in this church is a privelage not a right, but it is very special to df and I really want to be able to marry there for him"
But you said your df thinks you're being unreasonable? So, it can't be that special to him if he thinks you should let it go.
A friend's mother used to be a vicar in a well-known church, and used to get swamped with requests from people from out of the parish who wanted to marry there because it was very beautiful and on the telly and all that. That was before the rule change, so God knows what it is like now.
OP are you coming back ?
Why do you want to marry in this church rather than your own church ?
Why a Sunday ?
For the record, my CofE vicar offered me a Sunday wedding, despite having 3 services on a Sunday. But she is rather wonderful.
I agree with everyone else, sorry.
Is this church particularly pretty? If so, he may be used to people hassling to get married there. I know quite a few vicars (don't ask) and they are very sensitive about being 'used' as a cheap, pretty venue for people who don't go to their church and/or are not even Christian.
I think your connection sounds a bit tenuous, tbh, and would not fly with most vicars.
I think you have been given a bit of a rough ride here, but it is certainly true that vicars are very busy, sometimes with pretty heavy stuff. He was a bit abrupt but I think he was just trying to get you to go away, quite untactfully.
I hope you find somewhere nice to get married, but I think it's best to cut your losses on this church.
Thank you for your replies...I had to go out hence the long wait!
To answer a few queries...the connection (df's grandparents marrying there is officially recognised by the Church in Wales). That is the 'official' connection...in addition, df spent most of his childhood there, and attended the church regularly.
His mum and aunts/uncles were all baptised there. His grandfather has a memorial bench in the parish for his services to the community, which df was involved with all through childhood. None of these are official connections...but suffice to say the church is very connected to him and his family.
It is CofE...I was not under the impression that Synday weddings were do unusual as I have been to two Sunday church weddings in the past 2 years.
The reverend did NOT say no. He said it was 'not the best day'...then went on to ask for further details...I do not think it was unreasonable of me to clarify if he was saying no or 'it's a pain but ok'.
My main reason for being annoyed is the fact that he replied to my most recent email almost immediately...saying that the email I sent before that was not at the top of his list...how is that even possible?
Also, as I stated in my op, email is the preferred method of communication for this reverend.
OP are you in Scotland? I am, and DHand I got married on a Sunday. It was an Episcopalian (sp?) church, and seemed very relaxed about who could marry there; I'm actually catholic, DH is episcopal but didn't attend that particular church. Don't know if that's a Scottish thing, or if we just got lucky!
I communicate with our vicar by email. She is so busy that I know it is the only way she will get a message from me.
If you dp thinks YABU why don't you just stick with the parish church you currently attend?
In op's defence, that's the bit I do think is - replying and saying "you're not my top priority." Quicker to just type, "sorry no can do" preferably with a quick "[God bless you my child etc "
Incidentally,I have never been to a funeral on a Sunday. Loads of weddings but no funerals. Ho hum.
Why do you want to get married on a Sunday?
He might mean it literally though, puppy - as in, you're in the queue for a Sunday spot but I've got others waiting?
Actually I think the vicar was rude - sounds as if he's got a God complex.
Maybe so, LRD. Didn't read it like that. But still think it would be clearer and get op off his back to say: " sorry, I can't."
He should just tell you yes or no. I understand why you want to marry there and why you communicated by email. But why do you want to marry on a Sunday ?
I think you should give up with that church on a Sunday. Try your parish church on a Sunday or find civil wedding on a Sunday, if its the perfect day.
Why not go to the service on Sunday and talk to the Vicar after the service?
Requests for Sunday wedding and Church connections aside, the guy was rude, IMO.
I'm in Wales Mcbee.
We want a Subday ideally because of the venue, and it being easier for close friends of ours to attend as they will be travelling quite a distance.
To clarify the situation with df...he doesn't think my actions are bu, or that we should not bother...he thinks I am bu for being irritated that ymthe Reverand seemingly won 't give us a straight answer. He seems to think that all members of the Church are kindly, selfless people and therefore i must be bu because the Reverand couldn't possibly be bein rude! Lol
And I apologise for my spelling, am on my phone
The wedding isn't the most important thing. It's the marriage that comes after that you have to get right.
Get off the guy's case - He tried, gently, to give you a brush off. Let it go.
how far is the church from where you live? It may be worth your df going to visit and buttering the rev up.
If you have a venue booked for a particular date though I wouldn't hold your breath, availability of services is far less on a sunday
as a guest, i hate sunday weddings because i have work the next day!!
Just to clarify, when you say, a Sunday is easier for the venue, you mean the reception venue rather than the church venue ?
OP I don't think YABU.
I think it's a miscommunication and he was trying to politely hint in his first email, but I would've read it the same way you did: 'Well, it's not our usual thing, but tell me about this connection you have and we'll see.'
It must have been clear from your email that you had misunderstood so he could've just written back, 'Sorry, as I tried to explain, this isn't our normal practice but we can try to find another day if you are keen to marry here. I'm busy but will get back when I can.'
That took me approximately 42 seconds to type and is not rude. The whole 'not quite the top of priorities' business is sarky and unprofessional.
Personally I'd go somewhere else after that.
Sorry but it's been pointed out a lot on this thread
<tries to centre chakras>
Obviously the marriage matters more than the wedding, but the wedding still needs to happen!
She's just trying to get a date in the diary, FGS. The Rev. needs to answer her properly. I agree with the poster who said to meet face to face, but just turning up after a service isn't the right idea I think, because they're always rushing off somewhere else. Our Priest for example, rushes straight from Mass to the hospital to administer the Host there.
yanbu - he should say yes or no.
whether a sunday wedding is reasonable is irrelevant - he can answer yes or no. And if the answer is no it would be polite to give a short explanation and potential alternative dates.
whether your connection is reasonable is irrelevant - he can answer yes or no. Again a polite explanation would be the right thing to do.
his reply was rude also.
See, I think Ministers are just as likely to have a "rude" episode as anyone else.
In fact, they must spend so much time being all nice and polite and everything, I think they deserve to indulge in a bit of rudeness now and again.
My brother was married by a spectacularly grumpy old Church of Scotland minister
I think his response initially was a clear "no" to a Sunday wedding. He asked about your family connections wrt finding another date IMO, Saturday perhaps but he has a pile of mails to deal with/answer and hasn't got to yours yet.
Think you have to leave it now if they request email contact over phoning and personal visits. Maybe it will still all work out, try to deal with him a bit less as if you are booking something through an event manager or business.
Ophelia I just thought the reverand was being quite rude. Reverands are normally polite.
Ophelias...like I said, I'm on my phone. It is auto-changing. But thanks for your concern over my spelling. Unnecessary, but thanks anyway.
i think zzz is right about approach
your df should have emailed with a lovely bit on growing up in the area and fond memories of the church blah blah blah
as it is, the official connection is weak and if it is a particularly attractive church he probably has loads of people with tenuous links trying to get married there
As a ward of caution - The Church in Wales is not the same as the Church of England, people can feel quite strongly about that kind of thing
As former actors, my dh and I wanted to get married on a Sunday, as many of our friends in the business were possibly unable to make a Saturday due to shows. However, we also wanted to get married in the local church we attend as practising Catholics, and a Sunday wedding just wouldn't have been possible as it is the church's busiest day. It was a no-brainer for us, to be honest. If getting married in church is important to you, then you arrange the rest of your day around that - not the other way round. Everything else is just icing on the wedding cake!
The church is VERY quiet...barely a marriage a month. So I doubt he'd think we were trying our luck for no reason. It's very , very far out of the way and quite a pita to get to!
'Sundays are mot the best days for weddings' in other words 'NO'
If you are a regular church goer you would know this.
During several masses that are held on Sundays, and baptisms after, there is little time to fit in a wedding on a Sunday.
I think you should rethink your day, and church.
What do you mean tallgiraffe? Was that to me?
"My main reason for being annoyed is the fact that he replied to my most recent email almost immediately... Saying that the email I sent before that was not at the top of his list... How is that even possible?"
Sorry do you think you should be his priority or have I misunderstood??
Try a different church, as it's now caused a problem with you, and not a good start to proceeding iygwim.
I would suggest that if it is a very rural parish then it is very likely that the reverend in question has more than one church that he is in charge of. I live in a fairly busy town but even our priest has to divide his time between two churches. It isn't just the weddings - it is the funerals, baptisms, visiting hospitals, housebound, schools etc. I should imagine that he is a very busy man. Why don't you just get married in your current church with a vicar who knows you both rather than getting married by someone who clearly isn't that bothered about you marrying at that church.
many CofE Parish Priests have more than Parish to look after and if you were a regular Church attender you would know they have quite a heavy work load. It really pees me off when people want to get married in Church when they don't attend and have no intention of attending.
OP, I don't doubt you are not the top of his list. These guys are busy!!
I got married on a Sunday (Scotland) and we were the second of 2 weddings that afternoon. The minister had fitted in 2 morning services prior to the weddings and apolgised he could not come to our venue for meal etc but he had another blessing to go to that evening - as well as th evening service to do.
If your DPs family have all the connections as advised on your last post, why doesn't he contact the rev?
I love how the psychic ones always materialise! How do you know pp, that I am not a regular churchgoer?!
Why did you not put in all the spiel about your df's childhood/grandparents/parish functions/benches etc in the original email? That might have got a different response.
I interpret the bit about Sundays not being the best day as code for "Please don't ask me to marry you on a Sunday." He didn't say "no" directly but imo his meaning was pretty clear.
You then emailed him back, clearly not having taken the hint, badgering him about marrying on Sunday.
So, yes, I think he probably was being a bit passive-aggressive rude. But he's not providing a service and he doesn't have to be polite. He almost certainly considered you rude.
So, what to do? You could ask if he would be willing to marry you on a Saturday or other day convenient to him. Or you could drop it and approach another church or a registry office.
Surely then you want to get married in your regular church where the vicar knows you and your dp? I would have thought that would be lovely.
Mr monkey...no, what I meant is, how is it possible that he can 't reply to my email as I'm not at the top of the list...when he tells me this in reply to an email that was sent AFTER the original that I was chasing up?
He probably means that sending you a detailed reply about possible times, dates, fees etc isn't top of his list and has just sent you a quick email to say " I have got your email and I am working on it" sort of thing.
I've no idea about your church-going habits. But if you are a regular member of your local parish, I'd have thought you'd want to have your wedding in that church, supported by the wider church community. The flower committee would put in that little bit extra love in their arrangements, the choir might rustle up a good turn-out on the day and the organist might practise unusual hymns a little harder.
It takes 2 seconds to type the response he sent. It takes much longer to check the eligibility stuff and start to find suitable times/dates etc.
Some people seem to have this idea that Vicars do one service on a Sunday, the odd christening/wedding/funeral and thats it when infact they are very busy dealing with a whole host of other things so no your wedding probably isn't top of his list of priorities.
Like I suggested before why not go to a service and talk to him at the end?
I'm a chapel caretaker and if you'd asked to have your wedding here with your connections you'd have been told no. No chance of anyone getting married there on a Sunday unless in very exceptional circumstances.
I don't think he has given you a definitive 'no' to the date, but he might need to think about it, especially if it is a long way off and he needs to know e.g. if he or church helpers are taking holiday then, or if there are going to be any other events around that time the church/he will be needed for. It's probably not likely though, and he's probably thinking that you don't sound as if you are particularly clued up on how church communities normally run. So he is able to fire off a quick email, but a definite answer - which is what you seem to expect - is going to have to wait until he can talk to some people/sort out the church calendar.
I think it's important to remember that vicars aren't consumer-oriented event planners. You're asking a community that you're not part of to do something unusual in order to fit around you - you need to be a bit more patient here if you want to get anywhere.
Barely a marriage a month does not a quiet church make, though OP.
We have about 7 marriages a year, usually in the 'wedding season' and never on a Sunday- but we are a pretty busy church, with lots of other things going on.
and our vicar serves 3 parishes
oh, and I a PCC member and the treasurer so I do know a bit about how busy we are.
and as someone said upthread... most churches (CofE anyway) are relying on volunteer help. It is a big committment.
Bit of advice for the next church you try (as I say, I think this one may be a no-go, even just for the fact that you are now a bit miffed with this vicar so it might feel a bit odd being married by him iyswim) - I would email asking if you can have a chat with them about a possible wedding and try to book a time for a conversation with you and your fiance. Even better would be to go to a service then talk to the vicar at the end.
I think actually you do have a fairly strong connection, as your fiance worshipped there, but you have to understand that it's completely up to him who he does and doesn't marry.
Word of warning - if you're not marrying in your local church as well as your vicar's support you also need to get a special licence. I had to be interviewed at Westminster for this & explain my reasons for wanting to marry there (childhood church, still had links with the village, used to be in the choir, was living in temporary accom in London so that church was more of a home church). I was still asked when I last attended the church (by a stroke of luck had been the previous week) & we were given the licence. An old school friend applied by post & was turned down (although tbh her links at the time were probably stronger than ours as she still lived nearby). So even if you get the vicar inside you will have to think about the rest.
And I would think a Sunday will be near impossible.
Well you mentioned that it was a Cof E church, then said you were in Wales. Thought I'd try and be useful, see here for a better explanation. Sometimes something like that can be a sore point, a bit like referring to a die-hard Glaswegan as English or a Dutch person as German
OP, I think you have had your YABU pretty comprehensively now.
You seem to be over-analysing this. Understandably, as it is a big deal to you.
But the Reverend is just saying that he hasn't had a chance to give proper consideration to your 2nd email yet.
And I would say that you should be thinking about a Plan B, as it doesn't sound like what you want is going to happen on the day you want at this particular church.
And try to calm down - it's the marriage that's important.
I don't think a week was very long to give him to see if he can sort out staffing your wedding.
Bet you wish you hadn't been so pushy now.
It sounds like some of the parishioners might know the family of your DF though, so there's still hope.
Good point Egusta - he might well have more than one church to worry about!
Even if there are not a lot of weddings there, there may well be a lot of funerals
Cheer up OP. If your DF's family are known in the parish and he lived and worshipped there, there is actually a pretty good chance of you being able to marry there. You just might not get the date you want.
This isn't in any way intended to be offensive, but as a non-CofE person - I don't really get the thinking in many of these posts.
Would someone mind explaining?
I thought CofE attendances were on the decline and that a vicar would be keen to marry a regular churchgoer. Also, the whole 'it's totally up to him if he marries you' thing - is it really just his decision? Does that mean Anglicans aren't guaranteed a church wedding if their local vicar takes against them?
It just seems like everyone thinks this chap would be doing the OP a massive favour. Would he?
OP, it's reasonable to assume you aren't a churchgoer because-
1. most people aren't, and you haven't said you are.
2. you don't seem to have thought about what actually happens in a church building on a Sunday.
So that's two things you're being U about. You've had your answer and sound as if you need to relax with a glass of wine.
He isn't their local vicar. They would need to live in his parish, or be regular worshippers at the Church.
Revolting, I have just done a bit of googling. I used to think that the vicar had a lot of discretion about who he marries but the Church of England website says this www.churchofengland.org/weddings-baptisms-funerals/weddings.aspx
This doesn't really square with what I've picked up from various vicars but guess I'm wrong...
Although there can be a significant problem if you're divorced - vicars are definitely allowed to say no to marrying divorced people and, when gay marriage comes in, they will be allowed to say no to marrying gay people. However c of e is a broad church, so lots of vicars won't mind.
Weddings aren't evangelistic events and should not be treated as such.
Local parish churches are err.. for the local parish, not for those who live in some other parish.
Right, interesting interalia. Thanks.
toad I assumed the CofE was a national organisation. Obviously wrong. I don't think of weddings as evangelising but I would've assumed a minister would be keen to encourage regular worshippers rather than saying 'you're not a priority'. It seems shortsighted on the face of it, but it's not something I know much about, clearly.
OP, our Church averages just one or two weddings A YEAR, but our minister wouldn't just agree to marry people on any date until she'd met with the bride and groom and talked at some length with them about what they wanted and why they wanted to be married in our church when they didn't attend regularly.
I suspect that might be something to do with the fact the Vicar could send a 2min reply to your follow up e-mail fairly quickly, but hasn't yet been able to make the time to compose a fuller reply to your first (second from the start) one. Also things like checking if organist and other support were available.
Personally I think it was meant literally - not, I know who you are & remember what you want & you are not important, but more - I am behind on my work & have a long list that I am working through & your email reply is not literally at the top of my list of priorities.
I do also agree that he has tried to politely let you know that Sunday really isn't on, rather than a blunt no, he's given you reasons & hoped you would be polite & thoughtful enough knowing those very valid reasons not to push it & accept that he can't really do Sunday, its possible he's taken your ignoring his advice on that as selfish & a bit bridezilla, your best bet would be to change the day -
I just don't get how your guests can get there for a Sunday, but not on a Saturday for example, I expect the Reverend can't either & your DF is right, they probably are lovely people, who just don't get why you are pushing it - if you want to salvage this & get a better response, you really need to apologise for asking for something unreasonable & explain your reasons for wanting the wedding there - for your DFs sake etc & offer to change the day if it helps & if there genuinely are very valid reasons why only Sunday works for your guests, explain that too & throw it on his mercy, chances are if it can be done, for genuine reasons, he will find away to accommodate you - if it can't, or if your reasons are as lightweight as they sound, you are going to have to back down, or risk looking a major bridezilla & not being taken seriously
You wouldn't be able to marry at my church on a Sunday - there's the pre-morning service choir practice, the morning service and the after-service coffee, and then the church music group have their weekly practice. The vicar visits various old peoples homes in rotation, accompanied by a few members of the congregation, and carries out services there in the afternoon. Then there's the Youth service at night, which finishes at 8.30pm. There just isn't any point in a Sunday when both church and vicar are available.
Look take the hint. The man was just too polite to tell you to bog off. He's already told you no!
<Sheesh.. the good Lord save us from Bridezillas>
If you really want to marry there, I would give it a little longer and fire off another email. In this email I would acknowledge that he must be very busy and that you understand this. I would apologise for having pushed for your wedding to be on a Sunday when this is a day that the vicar and wardens who would have to be in attendance are very busy. I would explain that you had requested a Sunday as this appeared to be the day when most loved ones and friends could travel and attend. I would state that you are very keen to marry in the church (explain other connections you failed to mention in the original email) and say that you would be grateful if he could marry you on a Saturday as you now understand a Sunday would be impossible to accommodate *ime of the CofE you are not going to get a Sunday wedding unless there are exceptional circumstances...and there aren't). Don't mention fitting in with a reception venue!
Please don't get defensive but do you and your DF regularly worship in a CofE church? I have some sympathy with vicars - especially those who are in pretty churches - who have people (who they've never seen before) approach for a wedding (and who they don't see again afterwards...until maybe the first child is born and they want a baptism) simply because they want a beautiful building with nice grounds so the photos look pretty! They probably get fed up with people quoting highly tenuous links in order to get what they want... It is a little hypocritical and smells of 'using' the church tbh
I 'm just trying to be frank. You said that we have no idea if you are a church attender but I honestly would have thought that anyone who knows anything about church life would know that a Sunday wedding would be virtually unheard of. I have been CofE for years and never in my life have I heard of a Sunday wedding or been invited to one (in a church), nor a funeral for that matter, and was quite surprised by others here who have!
Sunday is normally centred around services (as others have said here, some vicars are spreading themselves across three churches on any given Sunday). Consider also that many vicars also work Saturdays (and do weddings on Saturdays usually) and that those who have wives, children or grandchildren (who work, attend school etc) may only have an opportunity for real family time on Sundays (in between services).
I don't think it was unreasonable for you to have asked for a Sunday wedding (in ignorance) but you were unreasonable to push for one in a second email. In your shoes, I would not have sent that second email. You didn't pick up on the fact that in that first email the vicar was politely trying to tell you 'no chance' for a Sunday wedding.
If the reception venue is more important to you (and it needs to be a Sunday) why not just pursue a wedding in a registry office?
I think he was telling you "No". But look on the bright side: he has given you the perfect out!
OP, you can now arrange your wedding in a less rural, PITA place.
Revolting They have the automatic right to marry (by banns) in the geographical parish where they live (or where one of them lives), regardless of whether they are regular worshippers or not (I don't get the impression that they are - sorry if that's wrong). It is because neither of them live in the parish where they want to marry that things are different - the vicar of that parish's primary care is for the people who live in it, not for anybody who randomly wants a wedding there.
OP and DF do not have the automatic right to marry in ye olde ancestral church unless they can prove a qualifying connection with the parish, which it sounds like they do have - GPs marriage. But the burden is on them to prove that to the vicar's satisfaction. Once he is satisfied with that they will be able to get married there. But he is not obliged to give them the exact date they want. And he would be doing them a massive favour to allow a Sunday wedding, believe me.
In the C of E (yes I know OP is in Wales), prior to 2008 it would not have been possible for OP to do what she wants except by Special Licence from the Archbishop of C. These were not granted in many cases - usually they are used for marriage in school or college chapels. But the rules were relaxed as a pastoral measure so people could more easily marry in places with family connections. In my view this was a Good Thing.
The only case in which you do not have an automatic right to marry in the parish in which you live is if you have a previous spouse still living. In that case it is up to the vicar, who will want to investigate the circumstances in which the previous marriage broke down, if you are taking the new marriage seriously, and why you want a church wedding.
interalia when gay marriage comes in, no C of E church will be able to offer a marriage service to same sex couples, whether they want to or not. It is not discretionary. Some parishes do bless same sex unions but it is very much up to the priest and how inclusive the parish is.
Also remember OP is not marrying in the C of E - it is the Anglican Church in Wales, which is disestablished and although Anglican is not part of the C of E. C of E is only in England (the clue is in the name!). So some of this may not apply exactly to the Church in Wales, but it should be broadly the same.
When I started reading the thread, I thought that you were a bit U, but that it was through a sort of well-intended ignorance. I also thought that the reverend's choice of words was a bit abrupt, which might have meant that he was a bit rude, or that your own emails came across as rude to him (I was not prepared to make a judgement about which, based on your OP).
But actually, seeing how you've responded here to, essentially, not getting your way, and to other posters - I think you probably have been quite a bit more U than you realise. I don't think you will ever see it, though.
The C of E is a national organisation in the sense that it is for everyone regardless of whether they actually attend church. However, it is organised by geographical area (the parish), and the presumption is that people's first port of call will be the vicar of the parish in which they live.
Vicars, of course, will be flexible about this - I don't think I've ever attended my local parish church - but only within reasonable limits. It isn't any more appropriate to expect to use the church two parishes along for a wedding than it is to talk to an MP two constituencies along instead of your own.
So much for the CofE. I expect the Church in Wales is similar, although it was disestablished years ago.
I can only really repeat what everyone else has said. Our church is a beautiful church, in a beautiful setting, and we do get people approaching us just for weddings and baptisms. We will do it, of course we will, if the vicar has worked with the couple and done the neccessary groundwork. There is a bit of a sense of 'well, we want to bring people to the church, be welcoming' etc, but I have to say it does piss off the regulars to be used like that. Last year there was a Great Debate (as only PCC great debates in small villages can be.... ) about having baptisms on sundays and alot of people were flat against it, because you only see those people on that Sunday, it disturbs the service and then you never see those people again. I really cannot imagine a wedding at any time on a Sunday.
Our vicar is stretched also between 3 churches. He had a non-stipendary vicar to support but he has become incredibly unwell, and has been out of action for a good year. The vicar on a Sunday has an 8 am service, a 9.30 service, an 11 service, then goes on rotation to elderly care homes, then a 6 pm service. He takes Tuesdays, and only Tuesdays off. To support he has the (volunteer) organist x 2, volunteer churchwardens x 2 per church, coffee ladies, choir etc etc etc. Organising all those people for a wedding for any date takes some work. On a Sunday would be nigh on impossible.
I think also, maybe the vicar was a bit abrupt in his response, but you may need to approach in a different way if you do want to get married there.
Whether he was rude or not, he'll not be marrying you. Find somewhere else.
Take the hint already!
I don't understand why it's easier for people to travel to a wedding on a Sunday. Ok so they'd have Saturday for the journey there, but what about getting back home again for work on Monday morning -specially after a possibly late evening bash wih lots of alcohol b
I feel sorry for the poor harrassed vicar. He will be busy on a Sunday and he doesn't want to marry you - so take the hint and find somewhere else.
It really shows up your ignorance about church life that you call it Church of England when it is in fact Church in Wales. The two are different, have different rules and don't like being confused.
Even with the memorial bench your connection is tenuous. You can't force the vicar to marry you if he doesn't want to.
The detail of the timings of the various emails is irrelevant.
You are asking for something unusual and inconvenient, the vicar's not keen, so take the hint (and the chorus of opinion here that yabu) and find somewhere else to marry.
I'd be looking at other church venues. It sounds like the Rev has said 'No'.
In our church, even direct descandants of Christ cant get married on a sunday! - there are 3 services each an hour long, ( with coffee and chat after = 6 hrs), add in the odd baptism, another hour and the fact the Rev has 2 other churches and his own young family. Logistics don't allow for it.
I would assume that you aren't familiar with the church otherwise you would be aware of these commitments.
Yes. I also don't understand how it is easier for people to travel on a Sunday. Most people will be in work the next day won't they, and if they are traveling a distance then it would be more difficult, wouldn't it ?
As an aside, are registry offices open 7 days s week ? I never realised.
Op, will you come back eventually and let us know what day and the location of your wedding ? Would be interesting to find out. As long as you are church goers, then I think your links to this church are fine, but I don't know much about it. Non church attendees getting married in church because It's pretty or having there children baptized just to get into a church school does massively annoy me though.
Oh and by the way, I do agree his tone was a bit off. Despite being busy it doesn't take many more seconds to type a polite response.
No .But you were rude obtuse and pushy.
Another way to qualify for a wedding in a different parish is to attend the Sunday service for 6 months and get to know the vicar and parish. He might be more inclined to marry you then. My daughter and her now husband did this, although for more than the 6 months required. We also went a couple of times, although it was 2 hours travelling from where we live. Mother of the groom did as well.
Might not get a Sunday wedding though. You do know that it's the vicars busiest day of the week?
Well you will have made several happy by now using 'end' not 'and' for the rev (couldn't resist making it worse there sorry!)....
Sounds like your connections potentially fly in theory then. I do get why you have booked a venue first, either one can be nigh on impossible to get so you do have to do what you can when you can. Have my sympathies there.
I guess you rewrite, don't mention the venue just say the date is very important to the family maybe. He won't like being booked second. Ask if the connection is ok and if there's anything your family can do to help on the day - you may have to find people to dress your church yourself if volunteers cannot. I'd also ask if you could meet as knowing him is important to you. Are you very sure your df is set on this place? I'd give it one more go but eventually it's the Rev's decision. He may ask you to go regularly for a bit. We went to ours for 18mths before our wedding. It was a pretty church etc outside our parish, but where my mother married, we felt it was worth that effort as we had faith so could demonstrate it and our commitment.
Don't discuss if you live together though as that could sink everything if he's traditional!
We also had to do marriage classes with him, he may want you to ours did.
Ignore what I said above. The Church of Wales doesn't seem to have the same 6 months attendance rule for marriage.
Does it really have to be this church though? I know that there are family links from the past, but why don't you start your own traditions in your own church? I always hankered after a wedding in my lovely childhood church, but once I moved away and started attending our local church at my new home I became part of this new parish, and I love it. I have made friends and become part of the parish community. I found I did not want to be married anywhere else. It would be nice if our children wanted to be married here too as they are very much part of the parish too, but I would not mind if they decide to do something else somewhere else.
I think once you get away from this idea that you have to be married in the ancestral church, you will realise that it actually does not matter that much on the scale of things.
Many vicars are now 'vicar in charge' of more than one church. My vicar friend is in charge of 3, which means 3 lots of parishioners to deal with -and a dedicated vicar will have an awful lot od bereavements, births, parishioners with problems to deal with- plus 3 or 4 services on a Sunday plus baptisms.
My friend is usually busy from Saturday evening to Sunday evening and depending on the time of year may have special services on top of that.
It was a curt email certainly but he's tried politely to tell you, he probably thins you are incapable of getting the message.
We had something similar with our wedding, op - we were getting married in DH's hometown, where he hasn't lived for fifteen years (his ma doesn't travel, so it seemed easiest), so we had to approach a vicar at a church we didn't ever go to. My advice: if you really want to get married at this church you will need to agree to a Saturday, as others have said, and you should visit the church and meet the reverend - just go to a regular Sunday service, then go and say hello to him afterwards and explain who you are. As someone else said, vicars aren't necessarily at their best on email: ours seemed very curt and unhelpful on email, to the point where I wondered whether I wanted her to marry us, but in person she was lovely and I realised she just wasn't very good at emailing. If your heart is set on this church and you're willing to compromise on the day, go and meet him and take it from there. Good luck!
Agree with everyone else.
Plus: irrespective of church-going, family connections, tradition etc, do you actually believe in God?
If not YABU. It is the height of hypocrisy to get married in a church when you have no faith. And an insult to those that do. I would never marry in a church. How can you make those vows in
A friend forwarded this to me as I am both a mum and vicar! If you live in the parish or having a qualifying connection with the parish you have a right to be married in the parish church. You do not have a right to dictate the date or time.
It is rather frustrating when couples book everything up before the church and then expect the vicar to fall into place with their plans, it does feel as if the party is more important than the actual wedding in some cases.
I love weddings and have a very open policy. I put a lot of work into weddings and also the marriage preparation course which is crucial, even if you have been living together for a while and already have children, maybe even more so, especially if you have been married before. You wouldn't drive a car without taking lessons after all!
Sundays are not a good day for weddings. My normal Sunday begins with an 8am service (but obviously I have to be there earlier), followed by a 9.30am service and an 11am service. Sometimes there is a baptism at 12.30. Sometimes there is a course for people training to be worship leaders from 2-5. Then at 7pm it's youth group. I have 7 churches to look after with 1 other minister. I'm not sure where in that day I could fit in a wedding, and even if I could I wouldn't have the energy or focus to do it well. It takes a lot of energy to carry a couple through their wedding vows and ensure that they and everyone else in the wedding party feel at ease. At some point in the day I also need to eat, and it would be nice to see my 5 year old and 7 year old, maybe even my husband, cat, chickens.
Of course a wedding isn't all about the vicar. You also need an organist and a verger, bellringers etc. These people are all volunteers who may already have been involved in several services that day and would also like to see their family.
Communication doesn't seem to have worked particularly well in your situation and I am sorry for that. However, despite the myth, vicars do not only work on Sundays, and they are neither superhuman nor superheroes, you're mistaking us for Jesus himself. I currently have 4 difficult and complicated funerals that I'm dealing with, a host of annual church meetings, 4 schools which I am involved with in different ways, and this year seems to be a big year for weddings - the season is just kicking off! As well as all this there are the 'invisible' elements of the job, which sadly involve dealing with a lot of grumbling and complaints from time to time.
I've joined this conversation late, so don't know when you originally contacted the vicar, but please do also bear in mind that Easter is an extraordinarily busy time and clergy are exhausted by the time Easter Sunday comes. It may have been a case of bad timing. I do hope that you are able to resolve this issue and enjoy preparing for your wedding day and life together. I pray that God will bless you with much love and laughter in your home and the strength to support each other in the tough times. But please do be gentle with your vicar and consider a different day of the week - it doesn't have to be Saturday, but Sundays really aren't good.
Agree with everyone else about the vicar trying to give you the brush-off.
Plus: irrespective of church-going, family connections, tradition etc, do you actually believe in God?
If not YABU. It is the height of hypocrisy to get married in a church when you have no faith. And an insult to those that do. I would never marry in a church. How can you make those vows "in the sight of God" when you don't believe in him?
Don't know where you are in Wales, but Manorbier Castle is the most amazing venue for a wedding.
The CofE do do Sunday weddings-ours was on a Sunday because the priest was doing a wedding in Winchester the day before. But YABU-I presume you've chosen this church because it's pretty, and the 'family connection' is tentative at best. Get married on Saturday or choose somewhere else.
Well OP if your Rev was rude (I don't think he was, just exasperated!) then I think revness has made up for it in spades!
I've never heard of a church wedding on a Sunday. Churches and vicars do other things on Sundays!
You're sounding rather entitled TBH.
elinorbellowed and revness well said.
C of E churches do do weddings on a Sunday, I had mine 4 years ago now. Also was the church in the village I grew up in but had moved away from, although my mum and dad still live there so family connection was still strong.
No more emails, OP. The only way you can improve this now is go along to the service, introduce yourself and apologise (whether you mean it or not) and say you didn't mean to come across as pushy and could you all please start again?
I don't think y-were-bu but I think the situation may now be out of your hands. Good luck.
Hi, I too am a vicar and a Mum. I am very sorry that the communication has not been as great and prompt as you hoped. In our "home" church, we refuse all Sunday weddings - a decision made by the lay leaders long before I arrived. The Church council may have set in place guidelines to protect the clergy (who do not personally received any of the fee for weddings) and for the volunteers eg organist and vergers, who help the occasion happen. They get a small fee.
If your heart is set on that church building, I suggest that you visit the vicar in person. Bring all your qualifying papers with you. The 6 months attendance is good too - we suggest "more than once a month but not necessarily every sunday". As having been a guest at a bank holiday Monday wedding - similar situation to a Sunday wedding - it was not great as all the guests disappeared off immediately at the end of the meal for work the next day, most not even waiting for the first dance - so the evening reception was a disaster. All the best in your wedding and marriage.
I agree wtih the posts above, I've been to a Sunday wedding (civil ceremony) and to be honest the latter half of the reception fell a bit flat, as everyone was thinking about work the next day. Saturdays are much better IMO.
We had to get married in a different church from the one we'd planned (same parish), as our 'home' church had a big festival on the only Saturday that our reception venue was available. We still had a fantastic day, and it didn't matter anything like as much as I'd feared it would when I was in full-on bridezilla planning mode. So I would keep an open mind and think about a Plan B. In fact our Plan B church turned out to be a better bet for us; it was smaller and we only had 60 guests.
You may also want to pick your battles with the vicar, as you could well have more differences of opinion when it comes to the planning of the actual service (I was amazed how much begging it took to be allowed three hymns instead of two...). Go along to some services (or his 'office hour' if he has one) and say hello in person. It'll be much easier to work things out if you can build some kind of relationship based on face to face contact.
Great to get the input from the vicars above. My MIL is a retired vicar and i am sure she would be in total agreement with them. We never visited her on a "working" Sunday as she was far too busy dealing with matters various.
I too add the point about whether the Sunday is a sensible day anyway. To be honest, if someone invited me (London) to a wedding in Wales I would be delighted IF it was on a Saturday. It would be a great reason to get out into the country, see friends, have fun and a weekend away. If it was on the Sunday, we would probably leave on Sat am, spend the day waiting for the wedding. then on the Sunday I woudl be thinking about what time we needed to get away to avoid London traffic...if it was a child free wedding we would want to get home to see the children, if children were coming, I would want to get them home in time for bed before school the next day. Enjoying the wedding and reception would not be high up the list - they would be squeezed into the practical arrangements.
Fwiw, friends of ours recently had a short wedding blessing in a Cof E church on Sunday recently. It took half an hour and there were about 20 people there. The vicar was happy with it (I assume!) and it worked for the guests as we had all had a lovely weekend together...following the service, we said goodbye and went home. No reception happened. You haven't said what your plans are, but I don't imagine that they will be similar to this.
I think it is great that vicars don't do Sunday weddings!
NB re the OP, I don't think the communication was great - but that goes for both you and the vicar.
Another vicarage family here!
Most has already been said, but I think it's worth noting that a Rev who has a small village church is likely to have many churches and no administrative help with emails (massive generalisation, but larger city churches are more likely to have someone else to do paperwork etc)
He is likely getting between 20 and 100 emails a day at this time of year when there is an annual meeting in every church that needs vast amounts of preparation and paperwork. To find your first email is harder than just asking you to wait your turn. Agreed he could have said it better!
But mostly I wanted to say, that church attendance in the UK is rising, not falling.
Good post Rev.
Op, do let us know the outcome. Good luck !
OP, do you actually attend this church? Or any church?
Cof E rarely marry people on a Sunday, although I have seen a marriage celebration of regular parishioners as part of the ordinary 10am Sunday service (clergy family for my sins). Ditto for christenings.
And frankly, the groom's grandparents marrying in the church wouldn't be seen as a huge priority for 'connection to the church/parish.'
Vicars actually do a LOT of work 6 days a week (Monday was the day off in my family). Sunday may involve visiting places (such as nursing homes) to celebrate communion, may involve several services, seeing & talking to regular parishioners, and so on.
Churches aren't just pretty places to start a party ...
she did mention further down the thread that she does attend church
Did she? I thought she said "how do you know I don't?" -which is not the same thing!
I thought that too, clam.
Surely anyone who DID attend on a Sunday would know why weddings don't generally happen that day of the week?
clam is right.
OP just said "How do you know pp, that I am not a regular churchgoer?!" - but failed to mention whether or not she is actually a regular churchgoer.
Frankly, given the OP's apparent lack of knowledge about why Sunday might be a busy day for a reverend and therefore not good for weddings, it's reasonable to suspect that she isn't a regular churchgoer. Especially as she hasn't said that she is.
it's not the groom's grandparents who got married there, is it? it's the OP's great-grand-parents.
I thought Df was referring to fiancee rather than father, given the context the OP's using Df in?
Yeah, I thought fiancee rather than father. So the partners grandparents.
I too assumed fiancee, but either way, it's not really what you'd call a strong connection.
I got married on a Sunday, as DH and all his friends all work on saturdays, and didn't realise how unusual it was - doubly grateful to our lovely vicar now!
OP, if you want to salvage the situation, go there for a service and introduce yourself to the vicar and have a face to face chat. You might get to appreciate how busy they are on Sundays, and the vicar might get to understand your genuine wish to marry there, perhaps on another day.
Frankly, given the OP's apparent lack of knowledge about why Sunday might be a busy day for a reverend and therefore not good for weddings, it's reasonable to suspect that she isn't a regular churchgoer
Yup, that's what I thought. From my family experience, best thing to do would be to start attending the church. But apparently it's a PITA to get to... so that might be difficult. But then I wonder, why get married somewhere that's miles away from anywhere that you or your family live? So there's no sense of community, just a pretty building?
Most churches don't marry people on a Sunday. They are busy with people who actually go to church. If anybody was being a bit pushy and rude it was you. He tried in a polite way to say Sundays was not convenient and then you pushed it.
I didn't read that email as rude. He didn't say "You're not exactly at the top of my list right now", ie you're not a priority, just that your arrangements aren't at the top of his list yet, ie he hasn't got to it yet.
In any event, if you are wanting to marry at a church which isn't your home church (if you are even a church goer at all), it's a bit much to hassle the vicar, when he's already made it clear that you've asked a bit much. If you genuinely want to marry in that church, I would suggest apologising for chasing him, explain that this is important to you, hence you getting a bit stressy, and ask if there is another day when he could marry you.
Great post Revness
I am in Wales too and we do not see Sunday weddings here. In our rural area the Church is important still to most of the community and our Vicar would be far too busy managing the three churches that he provides services in.
Having said that, he was delighted when DH and I wanted to marry in our village church, as no-one had married there due to it's tiny capacity. Although, technically our house is over the border in the next parish!
I could be wrong but I am guessing that the OP's silence since very early on, particularly in light of the suggestion that she may get a better response if she is flexible as to date, suggests that everything else (e.g reception venue) is cast in stone. Fair enough but it shows that the church was less important than other considerations (again fair enough!) but she can hardly then compain in the Rev has other priorities too.
I agree that his tone was sharper than it might be but I certainly read the OP as being the hassling one and he responded accordingly. As Revness said, he's only human!
Always, always, ALWAYS book the wedding itself BEFORE the reception venue is the lesson here, I think.
Loving this thread. Want to hear more of ops wedding plans, everyone got their bingo cards ready? Eyes down...
I don't think he was rude. Maybe he doesn't do weddings in a Sunday or may be he has leave booked.
I thought it was rude. I must be being a bit sensitive, which is rare for me.
Be easier all round if churches made a hard and fast rule only to marry people who were born in that parish or have attended that particular church for a specified period of time (and I don't mean once a month for six months).
People are quite happy to marry in church even though they have no connection at all or, very often, religious beliefs. I know many women who when they marry want a big white wedding in church even though they don't believe in God. In which case, it's all about the show. Which isn't what it should be about.
Believe in God, get married in church. Don't believe in God, then go for stately home, hotel, registrar's office, Gretna Green etc.
Believe in God, get married in church. Don't believe in God, then go for stately home, hotel, registrar's office, Gretna Green etc.
One clergyman's wife told me that the number of weddings dropped off dramatically in her church once venues such as stately homes were licensed.
I go to a church which doesn't score particularly highly on the attraction stakes i.e. not the pretty village church, nor the ornate pile in the town centre with lots of stained glass, and we don't do many weddings at all, and they nearly all have some sort of connection with the church.
I totally agree with Voice, being married in church should not be about the dream of the big white wedding. If your not religious, then just find another pretty building. The op may attend church every week for all I know, so I'm not talking about her, just in general.
Where have people got the idea that the CofE doesn't marry anyone on a Sunday? It's not a rule.
OP your reasons for wanting to get married there sound totally legitimate, it sounds like a very important place in your DF's family history. The vicar probably just doesn't want to marry you on a Sunday for his own reasons. And yes, I think he sounds rude.
The excuse Sunday is not the best day, is way to tell someone no but in a letting down gently type of way. That's a applicable in any situation especially this one.
I agree with whoever it was who said that your df should have emailed the reverend, and told a lovely story about growing up in the parish and recall some events which happened at the the church which he attended.
Also agree with everyone who has said that the reception will be a bit flat as everyone will be concentrating on work the next day.
La, I think that's a bit sad. People who attend church on a regular basis are part on that churches family, they should want to marry there. Not be put off because its not 'pretty'. That's not what a church wedding should be about.
Yes, op+, if you do come back, I would be interested to know why a Sunday at all. Aren't people In work the next day ?
DeskPlanner We don't get many marriages because most of the congregation are getting on a bit. We still get sons and daughters of members marrying there although they have quite often moved away and marry nearer to home.
What I meant was that we don't get the people who have no connection with church but want a pretty building.
Bue - do you realise that the vicar's reasons for not wanting to marry the OP on a Sunday might include the fact that it is already his busiest day of the week? He might have several services that day, either in that church or in several churches, if he serves more than one parish, as many do, and might not want to cram a wedding into the middle of all that, and do a rushed service for the OP and her groom. And he might want to have a little bit of time to himself to - oh, I don't know - eat lunch or spend a bit of time with his family.
You are right that there is no hard and fast rule that people cannot be married on a Sunday - but there are a lot of very good reasons why it only happens rarely - and then only with the vicar's cooperation and agreement!
The OP has clearly not bothered to book the church (which should be the most important part of the whole day), or even check that she could get married on the day she wanted, before going ahead and booking the reception venue. That was not a sensible thing to do, and it has come back to bite her on the bum. That's not the vicar's fault.
Ah. sorry La, I understand you now.
child of a vicar here - well said revness and others with similar arguements/reasonings
I love this sentence too -
However, despite the myth, vicars do not only work on Sundays, and they are neither superhuman nor superheroes, you're mistaking us for Jesus himself
.....the number of times i was asked by schoolfriends, "so what does your dad do for a real job, you know, apart from on Sundays"
This is quite funny.
I think your ignorance has annoyed him.
Do you have an alternative op? Think you need to go with plan b.
Also wouldn't have the wedding on a Sunday
YABU. In my last church, the vicar was in charge of 7 parishes. Yes 7. So you can imagine how busy Sundays were.
FWIW, we got married in a church outside of our parish, but it was my regular place of worship and where I'd grown up. It still went to discussion within the PCC though as we were out of parish.
Maybe if you were regular worshippers at the church you want to be married in then the vicar would be more inclined to accommodate you, and you would also know what he's like and whether he has a tendency to be short in emails/really busy at certain times.
Still wouldn't expect a Sunday wedding though!
Also, a wedding a month is seriously busy! My old church planned for 7-8 a year! And that was the largest, prettiest church in the group of 7 so the most popular.
just to say its a VICAR and his title is ReverEND
that is all
* bows and exits*
I don't know if you mean to OP but you sound very entitled and a bit spoilt.
I think you need to have a good chat with your df. Is that fiance or dad? If he thinks YABU then it's not boding well already. Think of the marriage more than one day.
I don't think he was rude. My relative is a Reverend and Sundays are taken up with services/church work with only an hour to eat lunch.
Email again and apologise for pestering him but explain that you are worried you might loose your provisional booking and wondered if he could confirm if the date can go ahead.
ITS A VICAR OR PRIEST A REVEREND IS NOT A JOB
I was married on a Sunday as the Church I had attended from birth (and pretty much every single week thereafter) was already booked on Saturdays for months and months in advance.
I am Catholic and the priest actually suggested the Sunday to us. He knew how much we wanted God to be a focus in our celebration.
Reverend is what you put on the outside of an envelope. We should be talking about the vicar or rector.
Whether the vicar agrees to a particular wedding or not is his sole decision. It is not a matter for the PCC.
may be he has leave booked
on a Sunday? a priest?
he was rude.
He should have said, somehting like, sorry I wouldnt consider a weding on a sunday.........
It's not your parish church; and he doesn't want to do a Sunday wedding.
Move on, fgs, and don't be any more pushy than you have been already.
Are you sure that you actually have a qualifying connection? Being the grandchild of someone who worshipped at a church is not ususally enough.
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