To think that Game of Thrones (the TV version) is over-rated tosh?

(111 Posts)
kalidasa Tue 23-Apr-13 11:59:54

I concede that it is strangely compelling, but on the downside: horribly misogynistic, eye-wateringly racist (orientalism anyone?), woodenly acted (with a few honourable exceptions, and the children are good), the scripts are really terrible, every plot twist is heralded practically with trumpets, and the exposition is plodding.

I like the music and the map with cogs at the beginning though.

Am I missing something or are we just meant to classify it as enjoyable rubbish (like "Revenge") and get over it?

Cheerfully expecting to be destroyed on this one but would be nice to know I'm not completely alone.

Incapinka Tue 23-Apr-13 12:06:11

I love the beginning too with the maps and music and cogs and stuff but I have to admit that I fall asleep each time I watch it! grin

gollygosh123 Tue 23-Apr-13 12:06:37

How is it racist? More thought police

squoosh Tue 23-Apr-13 12:11:16

How dare you!

Takingbackmonday Tue 23-Apr-13 12:15:43

No, it's brilliant, but it doesn't compare to the books.

stinkyfluffycat Tue 23-Apr-13 12:17:04

I thought it was crap. I may have missed something but it just seemed to be a collection of beards wandering around muttering 'Winter is coming'...

alienbanana Tue 23-Apr-13 12:17:10

Its one of the best series that's been on tv in years.

kalidasa Tue 23-Apr-13 12:19:20

Not sure I can face the books but maybe I should try.

adeucalione Tue 23-Apr-13 12:20:32

YABU. It's won 34 awards including 8 Emmys and 1 golden globe, and received a further 45 nominations, so is officially brilliant.

kalidasa Tue 23-Apr-13 12:22:54

Wow. That is a lot of awards.

You need to read the books first I think, the tv series misses some important points, the books will help you fill in the gaps grin

NotYoMomma Tue 23-Apr-13 12:24:21

It's written like that! It's a mysoginistic society!

Look at Brienne and Arya, there are examples of strong women but even today's society is like that! It's unrealistic to expect full equality in a TV show like this. It's sad but a reflection of the book/ time/ world it was written about

Fecklessdizzy Tue 23-Apr-13 12:26:57

Think what you like! grin

Love it, personally, but as with most fantasy stuff it either floats your boat in a major fashion or you don't get it at all. There's loads of really popular stuff on TV that wizzes straight over my head ...

KirstyoffEastenders Tue 23-Apr-13 12:27:49

I had to force myself to watch it because I couldn't stand the misogyny in the beginning, especially the rape scene. But I've grown to lovee it and, despite the gratuitous use of prositutes in every episode, it's actually borderline feminist.

kalidasa Tue 23-Apr-13 12:28:30

I take the point about the society, but so much of the misogyny/exploitation is played for titillation. So it's not just the society that seems misogynistic (fair enough, part of the world building etc) but also the viewpoint from which we are seeing it.

But to be honest it's the acting/scripts that annoy me more. Does no-one else really find them below par?

YABU - I love Game of thrones.

kalidasa Tue 23-Apr-13 12:30:47

The thing is, I'm not averse to a bit of fantasy or SF, and I quite like the whole maps/made-up languages/bogus mishmash of English history stuff. Though perhaps most of the things I've enjoyed reading would annoy me just as much on the screen.

Fecklessdizzy Tue 23-Apr-13 12:39:27

If GOT bothers you then you should steer well clear of Sparticus ... wink

squoosh Tue 23-Apr-13 12:40:41

Jon Snow
Bronn
Jaime Lannister

Three good reasons amongst many why I love Game of Thrones.

Songbird Tue 23-Apr-13 12:42:27

It's 'medieval fantasy' (as well as a couple of other genres) according to wikithingy. They were fairly misogynistic and racist in thems days. I actually love the way the female characters are written - strong and feisty! The books are often compared to Tolkein and in this respect (and many others in my opinion) Game of Thrones pisses on LOTR.

NotYoMomma Tue 23-Apr-13 12:43:26

Squoosh - best post of the day.

I wouldn't say no to rob stark.

They also totally hate dwarves OP. r Tyrion is my favourite character!

ophelia275 Tue 23-Apr-13 12:43:45

YABVVU! It is the best thing on tv and last night's episode was amazing (the scene with Danaerys at the end was breathtaking).

Just change the channel if you don't like it.

flatpackhamster Tue 23-Apr-13 12:45:05

kalidasa

I take the point about the society, but so much of the misogyny/exploitation is played for titillation. So it's not just the society that seems misogynistic (fair enough, part of the world building etc) but also the viewpoint from which we are seeing it.

If all that have is a hammer, then everything starts to look like a nail.

ophelia275 Tue 23-Apr-13 12:45:48

I think Tyrion is sexy.

HolyFocaccia Tue 23-Apr-13 12:48:41

YANBU. I dont like it, or Spartacus.
DH watched it while I go on MN.
Suits me fine.

HolyFocaccia Tue 23-Apr-13 12:49:12

*watches, rather.

Fillyjonk75 Tue 23-Apr-13 12:50:16

I thought there was a lot of misogyny at first when I read the book and nearly went off it after the first book, but GRRM actually writes a lot of strong female characters. In a fantasy setting, where people are idealised, that is.

YANBU to not like it though, if you don't like it don't watch. I am a year behind with the series as I refuse to get Sky.

squoosh Tue 23-Apr-13 12:52:09

NotYoMomma Robb isn't bad but I'd get irritated by his mother always hanging around.

Love Tyrion and also love Tywin although he's a bit of a meanie.

Fillyjonk75 Tue 23-Apr-13 12:52:57

I would almost watch it for Nikolaj Walder-Costau alone.

Fillyjonk75 Tue 23-Apr-13 12:54:30

love Tywin although he's a bit of a meanie

Only a bit? Perhaps only a bit compared to Joffrey. smile

Fecklessdizzy Tue 23-Apr-13 12:55:06

ophelia He does have a certain something, doesn't he? grin

GOT has loads of strong female characters - unlike Tolkein who couldn't do a good one to save his life!

BegoniaBampot Tue 23-Apr-13 12:55:14

Husband and I are hooked after racing through the first two seasons in a few weeks. The nudity is very one sided though but the female characters are great.

squoosh Tue 23-Apr-13 12:55:40

He's bloody gorgeous isn't he although I was vvvvvvvv shocked at his actions in the last episode I watched. Towards his cousin. Am only on series 2.

My face was properly shock shock shock shock

TheFallenNinja Tue 23-Apr-13 12:56:20

Half man with his axe. True force of nature.

UserError Tue 23-Apr-13 12:58:28

Very very very very very unreasonable. My DP, who does NOT 'do' reading, loves the show so much that he's ordered the box set of the books so far and is doggedly plodding through them.

kalidasa Tue 23-Apr-13 12:59:38

So setting aside the misogyny issue (which I can see no-one agrees with), is no-one with me on the scripts/acting?

I do think it's very watchable (we are into the second season after all), just surprised that it is so much less good than I'd been led to expect.

Fecklessdizzy Tue 23-Apr-13 13:01:30

So why are you still ploughing through it if you think it's badly written, badly acted and sexist?

Tee2072 Tue 23-Apr-13 13:03:27

Trying watching with a person who grew up where it's filmed.

If I hear 'I know where that is! We used to drink there!' one more bloody time....

Of course, if you come visit me, I can take you to where the cast goes drinking...

squoosh Tue 23-Apr-13 13:05:21

I know someone who works on the show. Forget six degress of separation I think everyone in the world is probably connected to GoT by three degrees.

Tee2072 Tue 23-Apr-13 13:06:31

There is a statistical probability that everyone in the UK will be in GoT at some point...

kalidasa Tue 23-Apr-13 13:06:36

Well DH is enjoying it a bit more than me and it's becoming a running joke that we are actually watching it. And then I get to choose what we watch next. We have a small baby so don't really watch TV, only DVDs that we can pause.

I do enjoy bits of it - as I said there's something compelling about it - but it's a bit like junk food where you feel sort of ill and guilty afterwards . . .

But apparently I am (almost) alone on this one.

squoosh Tue 23-Apr-13 13:08:50

Khaleesi gives me a pain in my hoop.

She comes out with the boring 'I AM KAHLEESI MOTHER OF DRAGONS, CHILD OF FIRE' far too often.

JazzDalek Tue 23-Apr-13 13:11:37

I think you have a point about the male-gaziness of the televised version - it definitely has an element of that to it at times. And I also agree that some of the acting is wooden, certainly in the first season, anyway Jon Snow
The writing, I think, is at worst adequate and at best quite brilliant; bear in mind that the writers are having to condense a fabulously detailed, heavy, complicated book series about a fully-realised world into twelve hours of television per season.

But neither of these impede my enjoyment of it. Can't help myself. I love it to an unreasonable degree grin last night's episode was incredible!

I've read the books and they are fantastic. Like others have said, there are a lot of strong female characters.

From what I can gather, GOT the series, is beard porn. I like big beards, I cannot lie. So I'm in!

DragonMamma Tue 23-Apr-13 13:19:12

YABU

It's brilliant. I think Daenerys is badass, especially after last nights episode.

kalidasa Tue 23-Apr-13 13:20:32

Thanks for measured response JazzDalek. I was thinking more of the script in terms of individual lines (since I haven't read the book), which honestly don't ever seem very good to me, and sometimes really bad, rather than re: the technical challenge of reducing a very large amount of material into watchable TV. But thinking about it I agree on those grounds they have done a good job: I haven't got lost at any point, for instance, in contrast to e.g. Parade's End which I thought had a fantastic script in that it was beautifully written BUT ultimately was just too dense so felt confusing unless you had read the books recently or rewatched the episode.

We are three episodes into series 2 and I hadn't really considered whether the proportion of painful plank-like acting had diminished since the first season. It hadn't struck me as much better but I'll bear it in mind!

Brodicea Tue 23-Apr-13 13:37:50

It is very very silly, not sure why a lot of people take it seriously (as in the same league as The Wire or Sopranos). I quite like it for what it is though - although I would prefer to see less swinging breasts and more swinging schlongs
wink

squoosh Tue 23-Apr-13 13:39:24

With The Wire and The Sopranos I felt I should like them rather than actually liking them. But with GoT I just really enjoy it.

squoosh Tue 23-Apr-13 13:45:28

In fact if I come across one more who says 'If Shakespeare was alive today he'd be writing the Wire' I'll.................roll my eyes and mutter under my breath.

kalidasa Tue 23-Apr-13 13:48:51

Never saw The Sopranos, but did love The Wire. Agree it is not remotely comparable.

We recently watched 'Breaking Bad' though and I think that is a reasonable comparison (pure entertainment, ridiculous plot, violent) but BB just seems a lot better to me.

kalidasa Tue 23-Apr-13 13:52:37

I suppose it's true in the sense that successful commercial writer of drama is likely to = writer for TV these days. Though Shakespeare did a lot of acting too. So he'd be writing The Wire, but also in The Sopranos . . .

I adore the books, had read them long before the show ever came along and was really excited when it was announced.

But it's shit sad

Poor acting, bad scripts, too many vital details changed.

I'm really disappointed and gave up halfway through season 2

squoosh Tue 23-Apr-13 14:01:34

I haven't read any of them, not my kind of thing reading wise, so have no idea how faithfully they stick to the books.

I understand though the disappointment of seeing a much loved book not live up to one's own expectations on screen.

freddiefrog Tue 23-Apr-13 14:07:30

I love it

I didn't watch it when it first came out but got dragged into loads of friends banging on about it on Facebook, so downloaded the first 2 series from Sky On Demand.

We're just coming to the end of the second series so haven't watched any of the 3rd one yet, but I am glued to it

mrsdinklage Tue 23-Apr-13 14:17:01

dragondragondragondragondragondragondragon
I luffs it grin

Fillyjonk75 Tue 23-Apr-13 14:28:35

The books are written in a very "male gaze" way too, but I can forgive GRRM for being male, I think. GRRM is also a producer on the series BTW. OK not all male authors write that way, but a lot do, just as a lot of female authors are very 'female gaze'. You write what you know.

I don't think you can compare it to The Sopranos or The Wire (which I haven't seen, not my sort of thing) as it's a totally different genre.

One criticism I have read of the series is there is too much focus on the 'whoring' aspects where that is only a small part of the books- so yes, I agree there is too much done for hetero male titillation. They have made Ros such a big character in the TV series - probably as the actress playing her is very good - but the character she represents in the book is quite interesting but not major.

But I still think it's a cracking series.

aldiwhore Tue 23-Apr-13 14:30:17

I loved the books (impatiently waiting for the next) and I've only seen Season One but I liked it well enough, I think the imagery and casting is spot on...

carlajean Tue 23-Apr-13 14:35:15

I was taken in by the huge amount of favorable publicity the Guardian gave it and ordered it on Love film. I couldn't finish it. first the misogyny put me off, the whole 'well it's paralleling a medieval society so misogyny is fine' is nonsense. if it's just a parallel (with lots of divergances from reality) why not create a parallel with equal women. it's just an excuse for showing female nudity/rape etc, while at the same time allowing the viewer to think they're not watching soft porn (because the media say it's culture)
also Tyrion's accent is all over the place. for such a good actor he's crap at the English accent. and please don't try and tell me he's not trying to do one. he reminds me of Dick Van Dyke doing cockney.
lastly , it's bloody boring
so there

ubik Tue 23-Apr-13 14:36:33

It appears to have been written and directed by a hormonal 14 year old boy.

Some of the acting is truly horrendous.

Even DP who is a sucker for swords and sorcery hokum, couldn't bear it. I got fed up with the giggling prostitutes.

It is dreadful.

We are watching Freaks and Geeks which is great!

carlajean Tue 23-Apr-13 14:36:58

I really wanted to like it, and was so disappointed that I couldn't

JazzDalek Tue 23-Apr-13 14:39:22

We are watching Freaks and Geeks which is great!

I agree, it is brilliant but totally disagree with you about Game of Thrones grin

neriberi Tue 23-Apr-13 14:39:26

I love the books, I'm just waiting for the final books to be finished and published so that I can devour them.

I equally love the TV adaptation, so much so that I panicked and shouted at my DH when I realised he had deleted it off sky + then he pointed out that it was on catch-up anyway.

squoosh Tue 23-Apr-13 14:43:25

Freaks and Geeks. So predictable! Anything Judd Apatow related bores me to tears.

HighJinx Tue 23-Apr-13 14:43:34

I've read the books and enjoyed them. The series isn't as good but I wouldn't expect it to be nor would I expect it to be an exact representation of the books.

I have never seen a film or television adaptation of a book I've read that was anywhere near as good as the book itself.

However I am enjoying the TV series. If it's not your thing move on and watch or read something else.

FWIW I think it's better than most of the crap that's on the television. But there is variety on TV for a reason.

kalidasa Tue 23-Apr-13 14:44:06

Oh good some support! Agree about Tyrion's v. strange strangled accent. I don't understand why they didn't just allow them to use their own since apparently it's definitely not meant to be England. He is a good actor I agree (and of course a gift of a role). Littlefinger's usually dodgy-but-passable accent also went really weird in the episode we just watched, in which he sounded suddenly and unaccountably Welsh.

carlajean we were drawn in by the LRB which had a HUGE puff piece on it!! A shame as I thought the author had a good point about the routine dismissal of 'genre' fiction, but then totally undermined his/her (can't remember) point by recommending something so shoddy.

Will check out Freaks and Geeks ubik as you are clearly a woman after my own heart.

kalidasa Tue 23-Apr-13 14:46:29

We have also been trying to decide what Shae is meant to be. French? Spanish? Passionate-Latin-not-otherwise-specified?

HighJinx Tue 23-Apr-13 14:48:55

We have also been trying to decide what Shae is meant to be. French? Spanish? Passionate-Latin-not-otherwise-specified?

confused it's a fantasy world, there is no French or Spanish

squoosh Tue 23-Apr-13 14:49:37

Shae used to be a porn star apparently, not sure that's reflected in her accent though.

Zara1984 Tue 23-Apr-13 14:50:00

YANBU

I like the rude bits though grin same reason I liked the Tudors.... blush

carlajean Tue 23-Apr-13 14:50:00

ubik is spot on, it DOES seem to have been written by a hormonal 14 year old boy

HighJinx Tue 23-Apr-13 14:50:54

Shae used to be a porn star apparently, not sure that's reflected in her accent though. grin

I'm pretty sure that in the books Shae refuses to divulge where she is from.

kalidasa Tue 23-Apr-13 14:56:58

OK, let me rephrase. What is her accent supposed to be? I don't think you can deny that they are trying to impose a blanket 'British' accent (with regional variations appropriate to north/south etc) on all the Westeros characters, so what effect are they aiming for with Shae? Perhaps just 'not-British-and-a-bit-Mediterranean'?

limitedperiodonly Tue 23-Apr-13 14:57:30

ophelia273 Tyrion is mine, I tell you. I'm going to tuck him under my arm and ride away from you.

kalidasa Tue 23-Apr-13 14:58:01

Although how we are supposed to believe that Westeros is not Britain is not clear to me. They even have die-hard noble northern recusants!

kalidasa Tue 23-Apr-13 14:58:34

I'd be careful limitedperiod, his wife was on this thread a bit earlier . . .

squoosh Tue 23-Apr-13 15:02:48

I initially confused Westeros with Wester Ross, thought they were off to Scotland.

limitedperiodonly Tue 23-Apr-13 15:06:30

Yeah, well I'll take her on too...

Representing a misogynist society does not make the show or the story misogynist. It's fantastic! Daenarys is the most kick ass female character, a total survivor, with integrity, dignity and power. And she's only like 14!

carlajean Tue 23-Apr-13 15:13:34

yeh, and you get to see her tits at regular intervals too. bonus hmm

carlajean Tue 23-Apr-13 15:16:50

plus you get to see her being forcibly married to some kind of neanderthal (that comes round to loving her - sweet), having a semi incestuous relationship with her abusive brother, being raped, consummating her marriage in front of the tribe, all under age. but of course it's OK, because she turns out fiesty in the end. crap.

Shae comes from one of the free cities I think. They speak a different language. GRRM spent time in wester Ross as a child I think, it was inspiration.

Carlajean, the incest is a pivotal part of the story. And the marital rape wasn't written that way in the book, I don't understand why they changed that. In any case, how does her being a survivor of abuse mean she isn't a badass? She's a very strong character.

And the tv series made her 18, so not underage in fact.

Fillyjonk75 Tue 23-Apr-13 15:23:32

They have made all the kids older in the TV series. I must admit I was made uncomfortable by the underage sex in the book.

But girls did used to get married at 12. I too thought "If it's fantasy, why not set it in a more equal society" at first. But having thought about it more, what makes it come to life is the closeness to a lot of historical events - Wars of the Roses in particular.

wintersnight Tue 23-Apr-13 15:28:28

I watched one episode and couldn't watch anymore.I thought it was glorifying misogyny and rape. Any programme that depicts rape needs to interrogate why it's doing as it often seems to be an excuse for nasty titillation.

carlajean Tue 23-Apr-13 15:48:12

thank you winters night that was what I was tree trying to say. why not be original and have a strong female character that hasn't been abused, but hey, then you wouldn't have any nasty titillation would you?

carlajean Tue 23-Apr-13 15:49:24

tree trying hmm sorry, trying

squoosh Tue 23-Apr-13 15:52:14

But there are plenty of strong female characters in GoT who haven't been abused.

ubik Tue 23-Apr-13 15:55:35

Winters - I agree. The Sopranos had a rape scene which depicted nothing but an act of violence.

We have also enjoyed Breaking Bad

OrangeFootedScrubfowl Tue 23-Apr-13 16:00:06

I watched one and a half episodes, I had to pause so many times to snigger at DH at how silly the acting was when you added in my pausing to comment on how obvious and badly written it all was, it was taking us too long and it just left me feeling slightly irate and patronised. Also the sexism.

Why on earth are you continuing OP? There are better ways to spend your evenings!

wintersnight Tue 23-Apr-13 16:00:20

Exactly Ubik. Rape is violence. It's not an act involving a pretty young woman with her breasts bouncing round and a few photogenic tears.

In grrm's defense, that scene is not a rape scene in the book and is in fact really lovely.... It was the first time we saw Drogo as a caring human being.

In fact I think that was the moment I turned against the show, they took a lovely scene and turned it into rape angry

ubik Tue 23-Apr-13 18:37:32

As for Judd Apatow - I was rather meh about Bridesmaids. I loved Girls-that's really worth seeking out as it depicts the naive and entitled twenty something's perfectly. Freaks and Geeks is entertaining but we are also on last season of Curb Your Enthusism which is in a different league.

Fillyjonk75 Tue 23-Apr-13 18:41:48

The scene with Dany/Drogo was filmed exactly as it is in the book. Not a rape scene there or in the TV programme. People are projecting their own views onto it.

Fillyjonk75 Tue 23-Apr-13 18:47:05

Dany isn't the only strong female character, there is Catelyn, Cersei, Sansa, Arya, Asha, Osha, Ygritte, Brienne, Arianne, Obara, Nymeria, Tyene, Margery...off the top of my head.

And far worse happens to some of the male characters .

limitedperiodonly Tue 23-Apr-13 18:55:46

The Sopranos had a rape scene which depicted nothing but an act of violence

Are you talking about the spit-roasting scene ubik?

I found that really upsetting, but to me it showed that Tony and his cronies were vile sub-humans. Just like the bouncer charging the women a blow job to enter the room where they could earn more money and get spit-roasted.

I know lots of people find Tony Soprano to be an anti-hero and lots of women fancy him, but I can't legislate for people who are hard of thinking.

That act of casual violence and humilation, followed by worse, made it obvious to me that you should despise this person. If people interpreted it differently, like I said, you can't legislate for taste.

ubik Tue 23-Apr-13 19:21:27

I was actually thinking of the scene when his therapist is raped - it was quick, violent and shocking.

But yes the spit roasting scene too- the writers were fond of making you like Tony and his cronies and then showing you the brutality of their world. I think the writing had integrity not evident in GofT ( although it's a different genre, different values perhaps)

UnfortunateUsername Tue 23-Apr-13 20:21:24

Not sure I'd count sansa as a strong character, filly

BegoniaBampot Tue 23-Apr-13 21:53:07

I didn't really see the scene between Danny and Drogo as a rape scene either. More like they were just sealing the deal they had signed up to.

raisah Tue 23-Apr-13 21:58:28

I would love to be able to watch a full episode but I find it too violent. The music is very good and the original version with just the human voice and harp is brilliant.

hairtearing Tue 23-Apr-13 22:26:29

Breaking Bad is phenomenal,

The drogo/daenarys scene was completely different in th book! He's incredibly tender with her and it's very clear that he asks her permission, and she stops crying at the beginning. In the show he plonks her on her knees and rapes her while she weeps, basically. Even if you see her as consenting, it's still a brutish and unpleasant virginity losing, when the book describes it so differently.

Exactly ehric, it's a very different scene in the book and he's so tender and kind.

sashh Wed 24-Apr-13 11:01:44

I think it shows quite well how women had/have to negotiate a misogynist world.

You have Arya, Yara and Brienne kicking serious amounts of butt and refusing to conform. The wildling 'spear wives' are known to be every bit as good at the men in battle.

You have the mothers and grandmothers Catlyn and Olena trying to protect their children whilst playing politics and planning marriages.

You have Sanza who is a pawn in the game and is just trying to survive.

Then you have the schemers and manipulators, Cersie and Margaeree (with Olena's help).

Finally the lowest in the chain, the prostitutes, who use their position (no pun intended) to find out secrets to sell to those willing to pay.

They are all navigating a man's world in their own ways.

kalidasa Wed 24-Apr-13 13:00:20

Sorry for long absence from my own thread, but thanks for all the responses. I'm glad to see I am not completely alone.

I don't buy the 'it's really feminist' argument I'm afraid. I can't think of a scene that would pass the Bechdel Test for a start (http://bechdeltest.com/) though perhaps someone can? And I do find the 'male-gaziness' of the narration to be pretty overwhelming and in a distasteful way re: sexual violence and exploitation. You could make the same point about the 'white gaze' I think re: the racism.

But mostly I am pleased that at least a few people agree with me about the clunky acting, feeble scripts and predictable plot.

Fillyjonk75 Wed 24-Apr-13 13:42:13

Not sure I'd count sansa as a strong character, filly

Read the whole series. I think her character is there to show there are different kinds of strength.

Fillyjonk75 Wed 24-Apr-13 13:47:21

I don't think anyone is saying it's really feminist, or I wasn't anyway. What I meant was lots of people have given it considerable thought as to whether it is anti-feminist, and think that it isn't.

I'm not sure whether it passes the Bechdel test. I prefer things when they do, but it doesn't mean I wouldn't watch them if they don't. I watch very little television full stop though.

But as I said in my first post the OP is NBU because you are entitled not to like or watch it, or find it offensive, same as with anything else.

SlowlorisIncognito Wed 24-Apr-13 14:36:48

Kalidasa there are at least a couple of scenes that pass the Bechdel test from memory. I don't want to be specific as it could end up being spoilery for you (Idk if you've finished the second series yet). The show (although not the books) is mygonistic in places though. There's way more time spent in whorehouses with naked ladies than in the books. I agree at times the dialogue isn't brilliant either, but sometimes I think they are just having to cram too much information in too shorter space of time.

The third series, which is deviating more from the books is getting worse for this as well. I think if I'd just watched the show and not read the books I might feel differently about it.

However, I do think YABU to say that Breaking Bad is better. I couldn't get past the second season. It just bored me. There were no relateable characters, and all the women (all two of them as major characters) were portrayed in a really undermining and awful way. I hate that show's treatment of Skyler, for example.

At least in game of thrones there are lots of female characters, some of whom are quite relateable and decent people.

ubik Wed 24-Apr-13 16:09:50

But the treatment of Skyler is completely in keeping with the theme of the show - and actually her relationship with Walter is tuly heartbreaking to watch. I think there is integrity to the way the show treats the character, she is between a rock and a hard place in the end and this situation is not played fir the titillation of the audience.

madonnawhore Wed 24-Apr-13 16:16:55

It is silly and brilliant fun. But I would like to see more penises and semi naked men.

Danaerys is my heroine.

kalidasa Wed 24-Apr-13 17:36:55

Slowloris I agree that Skyler has an awful time of it; but I don't think the depiction of her experiences (as opposed to the experiences themselves) is undermining and nor - as ubik points out - is it at all exploitative, in the sense that it is not played for our pleasure.

I take the point that there are not a large number of female characters in BB. But I still think it is an incomparably better piece of drama by pretty much any measure.

I think you're right that the challenges of exposition are a big part of the problem in GoT. There's just so much that we need to be told in order to follow and actually as I said further up I think the scriptwriters have done a pretty good job insofar as it is rarely confusing.

Thanks anyway for avoiding the spoilers. We're only three episodes into series 2 at the moment.

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