To laugh at the UKIP party political broadcast

(168 Posts)
FreudiansSlipper Mon 15-Apr-13 18:39:43

just switched on the news to be confronted by a London cab driver (stating that he does not want foreigners human rights put above those of this country) and token Asian man (business man wanting more support for business not our tax going to Brussels)

could it have been more predictable grin

on a serious note Nigel Farage should not be written off

tilder Mon 15-Apr-13 18:43:19

They used to be hilarious. Especially if you engaged with activists on the doorstep.

To be honest I find them worrying now they are pretending to be mainstream and have a veneer of respectability.

Fargo86 Mon 15-Apr-13 18:44:50

I am going to vote for them in the local elections coming up. Sick of the mainstream big 3 parties.

twofingerstoGideon Mon 15-Apr-13 18:52:59

YANBU
Nigel Farage

Flobbadobs Mon 15-Apr-13 18:55:52

twofingers grin that is uncanny..
Sadly they are becoming more of a threat round here. They used to be a joke but not so much now.

StuffezLaYoni Mon 15-Apr-13 18:58:17

I saw it too, it was shit. A very unsubtle message of Fuck Off Foreigners This Is Britain. Nothing concrete whatsoever though; no real ideas, just an unpleasant mindset.

SirBoobAlot Mon 15-Apr-13 19:22:11

They piss me off. Though it is laughable that they claim to be non-racist, and then on their flyer that was stuck through my door, one of their top points is that "Our traditional values have been undermined. Children are taught to be ashamed of our past. Multiculturalism has split our society. Political correctness is stifling free speech.".

Yes. You're not racist, and I'm off shooting for bacon tonight.

NotYoMomma Mon 15-Apr-13 19:58:41

Are these the daily mail party or something?

I try to ignore, although Nigel Garage does make me laugh with his antics in Europe, or he did!

I think it's worrying too nth, I know many people voting for them. Luckily I live in a Labour or die area or else I would be quite concerned.

Don'tthink they will get far in a general election though

Latara Mon 15-Apr-13 20:18:44

What SirBoobALot says is the reason that UKIP worry me - i think that they are racist or prejudiced at least. I would never vote for them.

PearlyWhites Tue 16-Apr-13 20:02:02

I would vote for them they are not racist big difference between the bnp

FreudiansSlipper Tue 16-Apr-13 20:23:57

really Pearly what are the differences? very few that I have seen if you read their manifestos just UKIP bang on about Europe interference a little more and focus less on skin colour

catgirl1976 Tue 16-Apr-13 20:28:53

Yes they are Pearly.

The English Defence League support them. That should give you a clue.

catgirl1976 Tue 16-Apr-13 20:30:16

Oh and they are homophobic too.

Dawndonna Tue 16-Apr-13 20:37:57

They don't much like the disabled, either.

tilder Tue 16-Apr-13 22:53:25

Non ukip voters view the party as racist.
Ukip voters don't.
Go figure.

Lorialet Tue 16-Apr-13 23:04:19

"Our traditional values have been undermined. Children are taught to be ashamed of our past. Multiculturalism has split our society. Political correctness is stifling free speech."

Can't say I disagree with any of that. They'll be getting my vote.

Buzzardbird Tue 16-Apr-13 23:12:28

U Know I'm Phick

Non ukip voters view the party as racist.
Ukip voters don't.
Go figure.

Their party slogan should be "I'm not a racist but..."

Buzzardbird Tue 16-Apr-13 23:21:54

Fantastic Mrs

WinkyWinkola Tue 16-Apr-13 23:26:28

What traditional value are undermined?

Ashamed of what history?

Use your brains will you? It's such tosh.

macreturnofthe Tue 16-Apr-13 23:27:54

just check out all their policies prior to voting - racist views aren't their only specialty - scary right wing stuff (and i aint no socialist!!)

ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmmmmmmmm Tue 16-Apr-13 23:50:52

A stack of people who have "read UKIP's manifesto........." hmm

Or perhaps just read what the Grauniad thinks of UKIP's manifesto.. wink

I would read it on their website but my continued use of their website is consent to Cookies (for some reason). Nice privacy policy UKIP. That fills me with confidence in their ability to govern.

Lazyjaney Tue 16-Apr-13 23:59:52

Let's see who laughs last. The mainstream parties ignored them for too long.

squoosh Wed 17-Apr-13 00:04:48

UKIP are the BNP for people who shop in M&S.

Veritable flurry of acronyms and initialisms there.

squoosh Wed 17-Apr-13 00:11:14

I seem to recall a charming UKIP election candidate last year, Geoffrey Clarke, who was of the opinion that women carrying Down's babies should be forced to have an abortion. UKIP initally supported his right to his own opinions, only suspending him when faced with a public backlash.

ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmmmmmmmm Wed 17-Apr-13 00:50:23

The Labour party are the Communist Party for people who shop in ,ooh, I don't know, Waitrose...

Yep, that sounds stoopid, doesn't it......grin

joanofarchitrave Wed 17-Apr-13 00:56:03

'The Labour party are the Communist Party for people who shop in ,ooh, I don't know, Waitrose...'

New Labour is for people who think the John Lewis Partnership IS communism. Like me.

Dawndonna Wed 17-Apr-13 07:32:33

Thingsthat
I'm very political. I have read their manifesto, not just what Guardian readers think of their manifesto. Why would they want to put my very intelligent (hopefully) very productive children into locked communities.

As for Lorialet thanks for sharing your racist views, too.

"The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit with the facts. They alter the facts to fit their views. Which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering."

ElleMcFearsome Wed 17-Apr-13 07:54:30

Ugh, they're gaining ground where we live and there are awful billboard posters thing covered in vile clashing colours anti EU immigration messages. Dee-lightful in an area with a high level of eastern european migrants (and yes, I know that's probably why they are gaining ground but it makes me ]angry] nonetheless)

shellbu Wed 17-Apr-13 09:07:04

they will be getting my vote , very popular where i live .

Dawndonna Wed 17-Apr-13 09:19:31

Why Shelbu?

ivanapoo Wed 17-Apr-13 09:19:59

To the people on this thread who said they plan to vote UKIP - I would love to hear your reasoning. Why are you voting for them? What policies of theirs do you like? Would you like Farage to be the next PM? How would a UKIP govt benefit the UK in an international context?

Genuinely interested to read your views.

And "sick of the main three parties" is a dreadful premise on which to base your political decisions.

UKIP are just the BNP in better suits, they have no female MPs because it's full of sexist twats, they're racist, homophobic and disablist and I have no respect for anyone who votes for them.

People either vote for them because they agree with their sexist, racist, homophobic, disablist manifesto, or because they are too stupid to understand it.

YouTheCat Wed 17-Apr-13 10:02:16

What AKiss said.

They are the middle class version of the BNP only they are more dangerous.

slug Wed 17-Apr-13 10:09:55
tilder Wed 17-Apr-13 10:12:02

All political parties sit on a spectrum, with the main 3 broadly in the middle but leanings to the left or the right.

If you go to the extremes you get Nazism, fascism, communism etc.

The bnp is pretty far to the right.

Ukip sits generally between the Bnp and conventional pollitics, occasionally slipping further right.

Imho if you are uncomfortable with voting for a rightwing party that leans towards the Bnp, then don't vote for them. Completelu agree with the poster who said don't just vote for them because you are sick of the mainstream. They are a rightwing party, with some particularlu unpleasant fringe members, and therefore represent all that rightwing politics means.

YouTheCat Wed 17-Apr-13 10:17:02

That's a very interesting article, Gruffalo.

tethersend Wed 17-Apr-13 10:18:21

I think Nigel Farage sounds a bit foreign.

Surely he should be pronouncing it 'Farrij'?

This is an older booklet but still well worth reading, 25 things you didn't know when you voted for UKIP

Sallyingforth Wed 17-Apr-13 10:27:17

I love what MrsP said.
UKIP the "I'm not racist but" party.
That really sums them up.

YouTheCat Wed 17-Apr-13 10:31:48

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Midlifecrisisarefun Wed 17-Apr-13 10:33:29

The real issue is that like it or not there are lots of people who are racist, homophobic and do realise that BNP are not nice. They will then look for a party that incorporates some of their views.
People are concerned about the effects of immigration and the other issues.

There are those who are concerned, those who are ignorant and those whose experiences create these views, to shout them down does everyone a disservice.
If the main parties addressed those concerns UKIP and BNP and all other fringe parties would die off.

MarjoryStewartBaxter Wed 17-Apr-13 10:57:20

Despite their ludicrous advertisements there seem to be more and more people who would happily vote for them in the next election. I have no idea how likely this is, but I can see a nightmare scenario where they don't get enough seats to win outright but can achieve a majority by forming a coalition with their mates the BNP (who also seem to be gaining a worrying amount of support, albeit at a thankfully slower rate).

MissFenella Wed 17-Apr-13 10:59:42

on a related note, why do people who hold racist views get so offended about being called racists? If they do it because they think racism is wrong, then why do they hold the views?
its a sort of idiots catch 22

tilder Wed 17-Apr-13 11:02:16

Of course there are bigots and they have the right to vote just as everyone does.

Some issues eg immigration have not been handled as well as they could have been by the main parties.

I still think a lot of people are not entirely aware of the full implications of voting for a right wing party though.

YouTheCat Wed 17-Apr-13 11:07:10

Those bigots in UKIP would like to take away the vote for anyone not 'contributing' - so the unemployed, anyone who is disabled and not able to work. Would they extend this to SAHP I wonder?

smiler741 Mon 22-Apr-13 19:27:52

are you telling me that you see nothing wrong with the Labour policy of open door immigration.

even the lefty socialists admit that while they were in government, they go immigration badly wrong, allowing immigrants to stretch our benefits, schools and hospitals to breaking point.

are you saying that there is nothing wrong with this. if you are, you are in a small minority. open your eyes.

smiler741 Mon 22-Apr-13 19:30:24

to use the slur of racism against anyone objecting to the Labour policy of open door immigration stinks of socialist propoganda.

HousewifeFromHeaven Mon 22-Apr-13 19:35:33

There was a link to a questionnaire on here a while back and it told you which party you 'were'.

Quite a few ended up ukip, much to their surprise. not me -oh-- -no--

HousewifeFromHeaven Mon 22-Apr-13 19:36:04

Fail. Not me. Errm.

smiler741 Mon 22-Apr-13 19:49:16

why don't you tell everyone what you really want with your marxist ideals

all of us equal, the only way that will ever happen is if we are all reduced to the lowest denominator, meaning that we will all live in adjective poverty.

tell everyone how you would like us all to earn an equal minimum wage and be good citizens and keep our mouths shut, after all, our opinions don't matter. after all, you will be ok with your teachers salary of 35,000 to teach primary school children while the rest of us are forced to pay in to the trade union that will keep your socialist paymasters in power.

YouTheCat Mon 22-Apr-13 19:51:36

I've never been in 'adjective poverty' before. confused

infamouspoo Mon 22-Apr-13 19:58:58

they appear to be disablist wankers. Why would anyone vote for them when they could be disabled tomorrow. Or their children?

WinkyWinkola Mon 22-Apr-13 21:05:05

I don't believe one has to be a socialist or even a Marxist to think UKIP are scary loons.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf Mon 22-Apr-13 21:47:28

"adjective poverty"

Brilliant.

Takingbackmonday Wed 24-Apr-13 13:30:25

I'm actually standing for them in local elections; hoping to take out the Tory incumbent.

I can assure you I am neither racist nor homophobic. I don't oppose immigration only uncontrolled open door immigration. A points system would be preferable and I find it strange that no one mentions that other countries (often non-white), even commonwealth countries, are essentially discriminated against in favour of (mostly white) European countries. Funny the Grauny isn't up in arms.

hiddenhome Wed 24-Apr-13 15:21:58

One of their policies is the reintroduction of enrolled nurses which I think is a good idea.

Reasonrules Thu 25-Apr-13 13:34:10

Think rationally on this, projections for the increase in United Kingdom population predict that by 2080 the U.K. population will reach 180 million.

Imagine the implications for all aspects of public policy, environment etc.

Reasonrules Thu 25-Apr-13 13:39:59

Correction.

The projected increase in population by 2080 is 120 million, not 180 million.

PeneloPeePitstop Thu 25-Apr-13 13:49:48

Taking do you support the general election manifesto policy that disabled people should be made to live in congregate communities too?

lljkk Thu 25-Apr-13 13:58:55

Where did you get Those Numbers from!?

ONS suggests population of 61.4 million in 2080.

SaskiaRembrandtVampireHunter Thu 25-Apr-13 14:18:40

"Taking do you support the general election manifesto policy that disabled people should be made to live in congregate communities too?"

They seriously propose this? If so, it's very, very sinister.

lljkk Thu 25-Apr-13 14:28:56

Problem is people think UKIP is just about immigration. If only.

What UKIP policy documents say, forget about individual member opinions, their official group line is:

*Abolish statuatory maternity leave; abolish legislation that prohibits discrimination of women of child bearing age in the workplace;

* Scrap employer obligations to provide a pension scheme;

* Flat tax rate of 31% with NI starting at £11.5k; no higher tax bands;

* no unfair dismissals or discrimination claims would be admitted by the Tribunals in respect of employees with less than two years' continuous employment;

* No central agency to inspect food hygiene for small businesses, instead "UKIP would be happy for smaller outlets to self-regulate: for example, owner-managed cafes and restaurants could adopt their own ‘hallmark’, and pool the costs of inspection and insurance."

* Climate change is a disproven theory;

* Nuclear, Shale gas and coal are way forward in energy policy, Opposition to fracking is scare-mongering;

* Safe disposal of waste from nuclear energy is no more than a technical problem;

* Build more prisons, impose more severe penalties for crime, give police officers more discretion (?forget about the IPCC?);

* Opposition to gay marriage, even for churches that want to bless same-sex unions;

*Reintroduction of grammar school system;

*Drastic cut in number of Uni places; return to full Uni grants for UK school leavers who actually get places;

*Lift the ban on hunting with hounds.

Make sure you know what you're voting for! They are worse than merely xenophobic.

Reasonrules Thu 25-Apr-13 14:35:32

Actually if you move the pointer at the bottom of the ONS survey they are saying the projected increase in population by 2080 will be 83 million with a balanced migration policy.

I have seen other surveys saying the population will be 120 million.

However even at 83 million that is 23 million more than the present 60 million.

Again I ask you to think rationall about how this will effect our future children?

lljkk Thu 25-Apr-13 14:48:44

If UKIP got in power I think there'd be a mass emigration of most sane people, anyway.

infamouspoo Thu 25-Apr-13 14:51:16

I think most of the people planning to vote UKIP have no idea how barmy they are

Reasonrules Thu 25-Apr-13 15:08:21

Since when have insults been a sign of intelligence?

infamouspoo Thu 25-Apr-13 15:14:08

Since when has voting for a party on a single issue 'them furriners are coming here and stealing our jerbs' been a sign of intelligence?

Reasonrules Thu 25-Apr-13 15:38:23

I have not mentioned immigration.

I am saying that given the fact that there is going to be increases of millions in the population there has to be thought given to how public policy is going to deal with these issues whoever is in power in relation to planning ahead for

Housing and provision of social housing.

Planning permission and extensions into the green belt.

transport and provision of roads.

Health and provision of Hospitals etc.

Employment.

Education and provision of Schools.

Disposal of rubbish and sewerage facilities.

Provision of water and energy supplies.

Other aspects of public policy.

However unpalatable these issues are if they are not discussed and preparations made with the proper funding then we will have failed our future children.

jollygoose Thu 25-Apr-13 15:48:23

well I plan to vote ukip. Surely when my kids cannot get into the school I want them to go to as we are awash with immigrant children I have a right to wish that someone would stick up for the people of this country who have paid tax/ni for generations. It most certainly is not personal kids are kids and I have no negative feelings towards immigrants am just sick of them jumping housing queues, taking full advantage of nhs etc etc.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Thu 25-Apr-13 15:51:05

I have no negative feelings towards immigrants am just sick of them jumping housing queues, taking full advantage of nhs etc etc

grin

flatpackhamster Thu 25-Apr-13 16:04:11

lljkk

If UKIP got in power I think there'd be a mass emigration of most sane people, anyway.

Well, indeed. There wouldn't be a coffee shop able to stay open in Islington.

PeneloPeePitstop Thu 25-Apr-13 16:29:55
lljkk Thu 25-Apr-13 16:33:04

flatpack or an NHS hospital able to get cleaners, or farmers able to get pickers, or carehomes able to get any staff...

The "immigrants jumping the housing queue" is a common claim, I know it got refuted recently, hang on a sec.

TheVermiciousKnid Thu 25-Apr-13 16:36:54

Farage himself has just had to admit that some of their candidates might be rather ... unsavoury. Lovely party - former BNP members, a Holocaust denier - who wouldn't want to vote for them! hmm

infamouspoo Thu 25-Apr-13 16:39:52

Fancy emigrating to this country, getting a job, paying tax then daring to send your kids to the local school and use the NHS. The cheek.

infamouspoo Thu 25-Apr-13 16:41:50

I shall send DH back immediately.

Reasonrules Thu 25-Apr-13 16:42:50

One of the reasons voters find Nigel Farage attractive is that he tells the truth and leaves it up to the electorate to judge him.

Unlike all the other slimy politicians who much prefer to waffle than tell it as it is.

lljkk Thu 25-Apr-13 16:47:41

"less than two per cent of all social housing residents are people who have moved to Britain in the last five years and that nine out of ten people who live in social housing were born in the UK" : 2009 study.

Immigrants make "little use of social housing." from Shelter.

2013: Tougher regulations already planned.

But what about asylum seekers, they are a different category from "immigrants", maybe?
Asylum seeker's housing is not paid for by the local council.

Reasonrules Thu 25-Apr-13 16:53:32

Signing off now.

Good luck to you all.

YokoUhOh Thu 25-Apr-13 17:03:37

Farage was on C4 News the other night, on a jolly to Bulgaria. He couldn't fine one person who wanted to move to the UK. In fact, a couple of girls had moved here, and moved straight back to Sofia because of the atrocious weather smile

He didn't cover himself in glory, he mostly sat in a bar with a cigarette and a nice glass of Bulgarian wine.

infamouspoo Thu 25-Apr-13 17:22:51

I saw the TV interview he gave. The Bulgarian interviewer wiped the floor with him.

ComposHat Thu 25-Apr-13 17:23:42

On a related note...

I'm not a Nigelist but

Does anyone know a Nigel who isn't a massive bell end?

I mean some of my best friend s are Nigels.

flatpackhamster Thu 25-Apr-13 17:27:51

lljkk

flatpack or an NHS hospital able to get cleaners, or farmers able to get pickers, or carehomes able to get any staff...

So you're saying that all immigrants would leave the country if UKIP came to power? Curious because their manifesto doesn't say anything about throwing all immigrants out of the country.

Of course the UKIP message isn't targetted at bien-pensant socialists and comfortably off public sector workers living in Brighton. It's not targetted at the winners from the last 15 years of Labour and Labour-lite government. They're talking to the people who've struggled to get their kids in to a primary school thanks to a 3-million rise in the UK's net population. They're talking to the people whose salaries have fallen while their living costs have risen, thanks to immigration pushing private sector wages down. The ones who are wondering if their kids will ever be able to afford their own home, thanks to a Labour-created housing bubble and mass immigration putting pressure on house prices and trebling them over a 15-year period.

It's working, too. UKIP's membership rose by a third in 6 months. They did a tour around the country and every venue they visited was packed to capacity. It isn't the usual people turning out to these venues, either. A swathe of people have been disenfranchised by the last 15 years of government. UKIP is engaging them with messages that, while they may be disasteful to a small minority, really resonate. Most of their voters are C2s, skilled middle class and working class voters. They're ones who have suffered under mass immigration and it's good that they finally have a voice, since the other 3 main parties have ignored them or abused them for too long.

YokoUhOh Thu 25-Apr-13 17:33:04

infamous didn't she call him on being a Huguenot? Brilliant. Why can't Jon Snow or Paxo do that?

infamouspoo Thu 25-Apr-13 17:53:44

I'm not a public sector worker who lives in Brighton. Working class from the East End but I'm not stupid enough to vote for UKIP. They'd want my disabled child segregated. They have Holocaust deniers and ex BNP in their ranks.

PeneloPeePitstop Thu 25-Apr-13 18:13:07

Yep, I'm in the same boat as infamous.

Any UKIP voter want THEIR kids segregated?

lljkk Thu 25-Apr-13 18:25:49

How would I know if I've benefit from 15 yrs of Labour & Labour Lite govt? (Serious question!?).

Must be a website, somewhere, that says whether which type of person is better or worst off.

According to this:
UKIP want to double defense spending & cut 2 million people off the public sector payroll (but not in defense, I guess) and give everyone healthcare vouchers rather than be tied to the NHS. So can we add semi-privatisation of health care to their policies?

High speed rail, return to smoking in public places...

flatpackhamster Thu 25-Apr-13 18:25:55

PeneloPeePitstop

Yep, I'm in the same boat as infamous.

Wow, what a lot of salt-of-the-earth working class East Enders we have on Mumsnet. We'll have a jolly knees up muvver brahn all togevver, won't we? Gor blimey, apples and pears, etc.

flatpackhamster Thu 25-Apr-13 18:36:15

lljkk

How would I know if I've benefit from 15 yrs of Labour & Labour Lite govt? (Serious question!?).

Seriously? Depends on the job you do, in part. Public sector workers are overwhelmingly better off. Private sector workers, mostly not (except at the top end). Low-skilled and unskilled workers worst off of all. Public sector workers are largely protected from rises in the cost of living by their above-average salary rises during the Labour Spending Years. Average public sector salaries also rose above average private sector ones in 2007.
And of course there's the utter destruction of the private sector pension scheme.

Depends on when you bought your house and if you benefitted from the price rises.

Depends where you live. If you live in a Labour or Labour marginal (mostly outside SE England), you're better off. Tory councils were starved of essential funding on infrastructure and it was channelled elsewhere. Been waiting 30 years for a dual carriageway down here. It was due to go ahead in 1998, but in June '97 Brown cancelled it. Now it may get started in 2018.
Just a couple of examples.

Must be a website, somewhere, that says whether which type of person is better or worst off.

I agree. Someone with more time than me ought to write it.

According to this:
UKIP want to double defense spending & cut 2 million people off the public sector payroll (but not in defense, I guess) and give everyone healthcare vouchers rather than be tied to the NHS. So can we add semi-privatisation of health care to their policies?

Only if you think that Finland has a privatised healthcare system.

Plenty of scope for cutting in defence. The MOD is massively overstaffed. But we need to start to look to our own defence across Europe, because the US is going to start pulling its forces out and we'll have nothing. The average defence expenditure across the EU is 1% of GDP.

High speed rail, return to smoking in public places...

HS2 is a boondoggle. It's a crap idea, it's a waste of money and all it'll do is extend London's suburbs 100 miles to the north. If you want to spend money on the rail network, get the cross-country lines open again.

As for smoking in public places, I'm not a fan but I do recognise the essential civil liberty arguments behind it. Hardly anybody argues about the value of liberty any more. Well, nobody in any of the three main parties. But it's an important argument to have, and I don't think that the healthcare arguments necessarily justify a massive state intervention on smoking.

lljkk Thu 25-Apr-13 18:54:07

Problem with Finland comparison is they are so small an economy/population.

I have not benefited from house price rises, real pain, paid way too much and don't think it's hardly increased in 9 yrs. I imagine that The only people who ever benefit from house prices are folk who release equity for specific purposes (ie, elderly, emigrants). Some BTL investors.

Not regularly employed in last 8 yrs (but will be soon, I hope, in public sector). DH has always been SE or privately employed.

Living in a split Conservatives-Libdem split place for past 9 yrs. LibDems now because most people actually like Norman Lamb.

I also live in a UKIP stronghold, though we have so few immigrants here, and there is no shortage of school places, house prices are lower locally than in most the UK (as are wages). NMW is probably rising faster here than house prices.

UKIP have heavy presence on local parish councils/govt. nonetheless. It's UKIP policies on everything but Immigration that infuriate me.

infamouspoo Thu 25-Apr-13 19:17:48

'Wow, what a lot of salt-of-the-earth working class East Enders we have on Mumsnet. We'll have a jolly knees up muvver brahn all togevver, won't we? Gor blimey, apples and pears, etc.'

I do love a stereotype me. As well as the one that MN is full of middle class lentil weavers. It isnt.

Viviennemary Thu 25-Apr-13 19:24:24

Not as ridiculous as the Lib Dems saying free university education and then supporting the huge hike in fees. Who can trust them after this.

PeneloPeePitstop Thu 25-Apr-13 19:46:36

No, not a Londoner. Not that there's anything wrong with being one. A parent to disabled children that this shower wish to segregate in congregate communities.

Something which has been studiously ignored when mentioned on this thread and directly linked to on UKIP's own website.

I find their racism and general bigotry bad too, by the way.

lljkk Thu 25-Apr-13 19:52:24

I just don't think most UKIP supporters understand what they are voting for.

Poll commissioned for The Independent newspaper finds 43% of UKIP supporters want an increase in public spending, and 40% think that Osborne's cuts have been too deep. confused

Dawndonna Thu 25-Apr-13 20:16:26

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flatpackhamster Thu 25-Apr-13 21:20:18

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SlowlorisIncognito Thu 25-Apr-13 21:31:01

I think that UKIP are a very dangerous party who hide their extremist views under a veneer of respectability. They started as an anti-EU political pressure group, which is fine, but they have become a lot more sinister. I would look to move elsewhere if they ever stood a chance of becoming a propper political force.

The immigration question is not as simple as UKIP makes it out to be. Our population is aging, and many British people are having less children. Ideally, the population should have most people in the working age bracket, with less at either extreme, so a population graph would look a little bit like {|} that with age being on the Y axis. However, the UK's graph is looking more like \|/. This is a similar situation to Japan, and in Japan it has caused them lots of economic problems. We need a certain number of immigrants, including unskilled labour, to balance the pressures of an aging population.

Yes, there are issues in Europe right now, but as we are not part of the Euro, they should not impact on us too negatively. As we are part of the EU, many Brittish people live or own property abroad and make money doing this- a friend of my DF's made a lot of money developing property in Poland when they first joined the EU. Brittish students also have the oppourtunity to study for free abroad- many countries do degrees entirely in English, so this isn't as difficult as one might think.

UKIP support reppealing the human rights act and a lot of equality legislation which has really benifited women. As well as being sexist, they are disablist, even if you genuinely don't think they are racist. As most of you on here are women, I would urge you to look into their policies on women in the workplace in detail before voting for them.

I understand feeling disenfranchised with the main political parties. I also feel this way. However, UKIP really are borderline facist in some of their policies, and are not a sensible use of a protest vote.

SuffolkNWhat Thu 25-Apr-13 21:36:28

My friend ran as a UKIP candidate in the last but one GE. She now lives and works in the US, that tells me a lot about the party tbh!

Takingbackmonday Thu 25-Apr-13 21:40:36

Nope

But I support flat tax and grammar schools

Takingbackmonday Thu 25-Apr-13 21:42:57

Slow - 1) stop reading the Grauny 2) that post is too silly to break down

We are not dangerous racists; we want an Australian immigration system and a democratic gov

tilder Thu 25-Apr-13 22:26:08

You might want that takingbackmonday. Unfortunately ukip have a lot more policies than that and a large number are incredibly distasteful at best.

I don't read the guardian.

PeneloPeePitstop Thu 25-Apr-13 23:10:55

Curious though how the UKIP supporters keep harking back to immigration, taxation etc yet won't be drawn on the less savoury sexist and discriminatory policies.

Or the segregation of a certain part of society. Bit grim, that.

Fecklessdizzy Thu 25-Apr-13 23:46:09

Farage is a well-known fan of lap-dancing ... So he only objects to immigrants who work fully-clothed?

Ithinkineedtogrowapair Thu 25-Apr-13 23:54:08

Oh man. There are just too many reasons not to vote UKIP - did you hear about the MEP Godfrey bloom, said women shouldn't go out to work because someone has to clean behind the fridge :-)

I am depressed by them because I watch what they do in Brussels - basically they could have an impact and actually direct policy/ amend it but all they do is vote "no" to stuff and go and get pissed (I can even direct you to the pub they use in brussels if you don't believe me!) while touching a very nice salary thank you.

They have fun value as eccentrics but really their policies are a total mess - beyond the immigrations stuff there's the not believing in climate change, opposition to maternity leave etc etc....

Lazyjaney Fri 26-Apr-13 00:26:09

I have just watched Question Time, it was a turkey shoot for Farrage. The others seemed tired, ineffective, trapped in weasel wordland andvtheirvown ideologies, and just out of touch.

And I say that as someone who does not support UKIP. it really worries me. I see the same complacent arrogance on this thread TBH.

jollygoose. I take it you don't have a disabled child then? Have you read any of their policies or taken time to actually look at what they are?

Or are you a man?

I'd be straight out of this country if ukip ever got in. I'd rather take my chances with condems and that's saying something.

You do sound rather thick with your 'I have no negative feelings towards immigrants but....' .you've contradicted yourself love grin

Disclaimer with the man sentence, I should have added or are you a man with a sexist view point. This site really needs an edit button.

Fargo86 Fri 26-Apr-13 01:01:02

I hope UKIP win some seats in the next election. None of the main three parties care about WWC people anymore.

AmberLeaf Fri 26-Apr-13 01:54:56

WWC people

What are they then?

ComposHat Fri 26-Apr-13 02:09:13

white working class I believe.

Fargo how will massively increasing the amount of tax lower earners pay in order to give a tax cut to the wealthy or cutting off opportunities in higher education help the working class (white or otherwise?)

AmberLeaf Fri 26-Apr-13 02:20:33

Yeah I guessed that, But I wanted fargo to write the words just to be clear.

ComposHat Fri 26-Apr-13 02:41:35

sorry!

Lazyjaney Fri 26-Apr-13 07:25:30

IMO UKIP is being far smarter than people on this thread realise, they are fighting on issues where the main parties are out of step with the electorate and/or tied up in their own ideological knots.

I don't like them but this complacent, arrogant dissmissal seen here is dangerous IMO, most of the issues they are targeting have been poorly managed by the main parties so far.

Dawndonna Fri 26-Apr-13 07:46:28

Flatpack
That comment was completely unwarranted. How dare you.
I have reported it.

WCs? Yes, a serious issue - I hate paying.

On a more serious note, I hope UKIP do well, because every vote they get will be one less for the Tories.

... and hence split the right-wing vote.

ApocalypseThen Fri 26-Apr-13 10:47:41

I see the same argument - that the rest of us need to pander to the thick, the terminally ill-informed, the people who believe gutter press adult comic scaremongering - getting wheeled out again even in the midst of a measles epidemic caused by exactly that kind if boneheaded chumpery.

I'm certainly tired of pandering to these clowns.

infamouspoo Fri 26-Apr-13 11:14:05

Raising taxes to 31%. Bet they havent mentioned that outloud when they trot out what the right wingers want to hear!

flatpackhamster Fri 26-Apr-13 12:02:33

infamouspoo

Raising taxes to 31%. Bet they havent mentioned that outloud when they trot out what the right wingers want to hear!

You already pay around that amount of income tax. 21% income tax + 11% NI. Combining the two in to a single income tax would reduce the complexity of the tax system and make it clearer to people how much tax they pay.

ComposHat

Fargo how will massively increasing the amount of tax lower earners pay in order to give a tax cut to the wealthy or cutting off opportunities in higher education help the working class (white or otherwise?)

Lower earners wouldn't pay more tax since the tax-free personal allowance would rise to the level of the minimum wage.

Dawndonna

Flatpack
That comment was completely unwarranted. How dare you.
I have reported it.

It's a bit late to race for the moral high ground, considering the abuse you heap upon me every time you post. I was making a satirical point about your loaded question. But report away, if that's what you want.

Reasonrules Fri 26-Apr-13 12:18:50

Be honest

Do you believe in uncontrolled immigration?

If you do that is a perfectly valid point of view from which you can put forward logical and coherent arguments.

On the other hand if you think there needs to be some border control on the amount of immigration can you explain why you feel this is needed, (and why you are not a racist?)

Because if you take the second viewpoint then surely the debate can only be about what nature of controls there should be in place and any accusation of being racist or hating people can only be spurious outrage can it not?

As the Delphic oracle in Ancient Greece put it "First of all Know Thyself"

PeneloPeePitstop Fri 26-Apr-13 12:29:46

I still feel it's dangerous to focus on immigration. Everyone knows that's what UKIP stand for, it's well known they want to withdraw from the EU.

What I think needs more attention is their other policies, for example the abolition of maternity leave and segregation of learning disabled people, or abolition of the equalities act which protects against all manner of isms.

They also want to ban head coverings!

skippedtheripeoldmango Fri 26-Apr-13 12:48:11

Thank you for this thread. As someone who knew little about the UKIP (but wondered if they might be basically BNP in disguise) I had been thinking about actually looking them up.

Lots of information here and great links - looks like the UKIP are actually very like the fundamentalist right in the USA.

What's their policy on things like abortion/contraception?

skippedtheripeoldmango Fri 26-Apr-13 12:51:16

Oh, I see...it's perfectly fine if the foetus is diagnosed with a disability of some kind.

Sorry, should of looked it up before I asked the question.

Wannabestepfordwife Fri 26-Apr-13 12:57:25

I won't for them myself but I can understand why they appeal to people especially in the area around me where white British are technically the minority. I can even sort of see the appeal of nick griffin he comes across as honest I mean no one would pretend to be that much of a vile twat.

What I don't get is people thinking ukip and the bnp are the only options bar the big 3 I'm going to vote for a local independent candidate who lives in my constituency and will actually represent the people they ate supposed to with no curtailing to party policy. If more independents got in it would also make it harder to form another unwanted coalition

Step Fri 26-Apr-13 13:02:31

UKIP are bloody dangerous. They have a veneer of respectability that the BNP will never have. Their thinly veiled xenephobia hides a vein of disdain for anyone who is not a male WASP.
Their understanding of economics is virtually zero, and their social policies seem to have been dreamed up in a pub. I hold anyone who votes for these xenephobes in as much disdain as I do their leader.

Reasonrules Fri 26-Apr-13 13:03:53

It may well be the case that UKIP have policies that are really objectionable. (As do all parties if perhaps not to the same extent.)

But the truth is what concerns people is immigration. (It is always within the first five concerns in opinion polls.)

People who vote for UKIP do not vote for them on these other issues, (although in the council elections next week many will vote on the issue of HS2)

That is why the three main political parties have altered their position on immigration, they know perfectly well hundreds of thousands of votes could be at stake. And in fact they would not have been forced to change their position if not for the success of UKIP.

Although they are not today and never have been truthful with the electorate.

The prospects of UKIP forming a government are remote to say the least, what people really want is to give the establishment an almighty boot up the backside.

meddie Fri 26-Apr-13 13:24:17

People don't trust any of the big 3 at the moment. They are looking for an alternative and UKIP are willing to jump in and target these people. They are focusing on issues that affect a large portion of the low paid and the disenfranchised.
A lot of people don't follow politics and their only knowledge of what is going on is via tv news and newspapers. So what they see are daily stories about immigrants taking jobs, housing, school places, pushing down wages and that is their view of the world, they aren't bothered about reading around the topic or doing their research about the true impact of immigration, all they know is that the jobs they once traditionally took and could provide for a family for, have gone to immigrants and they feel like the government have screwed them over.
This and the punitive welfare reforms are seriously affecting their lives and they are looking for an alternative, UKIP is speaking their language and that's why they are appealing to them. Its worrying.

VerlaineChasedRimbauds Fri 26-Apr-13 13:28:54

Agreed meddie. I have family members who are exactly as you have described.

crossparsley Fri 26-Apr-13 13:38:42

They have a party platform opposed to same-sex marriage. Not a few religious individuals voting "conscience", a party platform. What does that have to do with "British" people's rights? Unless you think that gay or lesbian couples who would like to stand as next of kin, recognised first-importance people to the people they love, as parents, aren't British. UKIP pick some genuine or genuinely-felt semi-economic points to push a retrograde, misanthropic agenda. Not to say that tedious left- and right-wingers don't to that all the time. Nor that decent left- and right-wingers don't mean well for everyone, just have a vision that other people don't share.

This lot want gay people to be kept out, and separate, as a party position. They are not big-hearted people and they are not in favour of the best outcomes for everyone. They can fuck right off.

amicissimma Fri 26-Apr-13 13:40:31

I keep reading on MN that they are 'disablist', but can't find anything to back this up. Please could someone provide a link to their policies on this.

The only thing I've found was an article suggesting that they are in favour of re-introducing supported communities, but I assume that's not what people are objecting to?

Dawndonna Fri 26-Apr-13 13:40:39

They are focusing on issues that affect a large portion of the low paid and the disenfranchised.
This is exactly what the BNP do. It's frightening.

lljkk Fri 26-Apr-13 13:53:53

I don't think they do have actual policies about disability, Amicissimma. But they may have refused to condemn the remarks made by some of their members that were pretty awful about disability, hang on a minute...

AmberLeaf Fri 26-Apr-13 13:58:19

amicissimma they took down from their website the most worrying proposals, those that you have found are in slightly gentler terms.

They have appointed a new disabled policy person...

It is Star Etheridge, she and her husband got suspended and then resigned from the conservatives after posing with golliwogs and then posting the pics on facebook, they are also behind the 'campaign against political correctness' Star is a wheelchair user who refers to herself and other wheelcair users as 'Daleks' amongst other things.

AmberLeaf Fri 26-Apr-13 14:00:02

lljkk

They did have policies about disabililty and SEN education, but they took them down from their website quite recently.

After appointing Star Etheridge, I expect they are making up a whole new set of disability policies at the moment.

lljkk Fri 26-Apr-13 14:02:26

Comments of Geoffrey Clark is what has most MNers abuzz. To be fair, UKIP apologised & suspended him from their party (did the media fail to pick on that?)

UKIP takes a hard line about benefit claimants; some would say too unsympathetic (the disabled claim more benefits than other groups).

As a general outlook, UKIP is against things like legislation that prohibits discrimination (on basis of race, gender, etc.) So assume they would like to revoke laws that prohibit discrimination against the disabled, too. The are on record as opposing legislation that requires employers to try to seek cultural diversity in the workplace.

UKIP claims to be party that protects the elderly & disabled (I think their supporters are much older than average, and most the elderly are disabled, so would be foolhardy if they weren't atune to needs of the disabled).

Reasonrules Fri 26-Apr-13 14:06:20

In regard to Gay people, I have always supported them in overcoming oppression.

I do not really understand why they are so keen to support marriage as an institution because in my opinion marriage has historically through out the world mainly been used to pass inherited wealth to the next generation, nearly always to the male first born so keeping women in their place.

As to the idea that UKIP voters should F--k off, the people will make their choice in a democratic election next week.

crossparsley Fri 26-Apr-13 14:24:50

I said the party could fuck off, not the people who might vote for them. I thought that was clear but sorry if it wasn't.

Not all "Gay" or indeed gay people want to get married. Why should those who do be protected from this evil patriarchal institution by being forbidden to enter into it by law? Don't women deserve this protection? Please try to make sense.

PeneloPeePitstop Fri 26-Apr-13 14:39:13

So segregating disabled people into congregate communities is acceptable then?

Oh I should put my kids in care riiiight now...

Reasonrules Fri 26-Apr-13 14:46:45

We are moving onto other issues here, however I have no objection to gay people getting married.

I also accept that people who have religious beliefs should not be made to officiate. (I am an atheist myself.)

There is little doubt that in many areas of the world marriage is still a patriarchal institution, eg Saudi Arabia, and women in the west fought for many generations not for instance to allow their husbands to beat them.

GreenEggsAndNichts Fri 26-Apr-13 15:14:58

It's the economy. Every time there's a recession, the first handy group of people to take out on are the immigrants. If he has a job and I have a job, no problem. If I don't have a job but he still has a job, wtf, why does that foreigner have that job? I could have that job!

If people in my home country were slathering over their version of UKIP, people here would be laughing at the rednecks and how backward Americans can be. UKIPers just have suits and better accents. They're selling you the same hatred, just in a fancier package. It's very dangerous, and when I see these adverts I'm worried that we've settled over here. It's not a good place to be foreign, and it's only going to get worse before it gets better. (It will follow the economy, basically, and that hasn't hit bottom yet)

thermalsinapril Fri 26-Apr-13 15:15:54

Farage is a bigot in sheep's clothing. More dangerous than an obvious, unfriendly-looking bigot IMHO. A charismatic bigot is the worst sort.

infamouspoo Fri 26-Apr-13 18:19:25

I was in Greece not so long ago and got to hear their version of UKIP blithering on about immigrants and jews. Its Europe wide this awfulness.

ComposHat Fri 26-Apr-13 20:08:54

Farage is a bigot in sheep's clothing

I'd say he was a bigot in 'Man at C&A' clothing.

Reasonrules

Quoting you: "I do not really understand why they are so keen to support marriage as an institution because in my opinion marriage has historically through out the world mainly been used to pass inherited wealth to the next generation, nearly always to the male first born so keeping women in their place."

I'm not surprised you don't understand.

It explains why you don't understand a number of things, including why supporting UKIP is wrong.

Fargo86 Sun 28-Apr-13 03:43:30

It's not "wrong" at all. Demonising UKIP just helps to keep the establied parties in power.

If UKIP is the alternative, that's no bad thing at all.

Dawndonna Sun 28-Apr-13 09:29:42

· Keep the NHS free at the point of delivery and make no cuts to frontline services
· Replace overlapping tiers of NHS bureaucracy (SHAs/PCTs) with locally-elected County Health Boards
Introduce private sector ‘franchise partnerships’ to run NHS healthcare services better, while assets remain in public hands
· Introduce ‘Health Credit Vouchers’ to allow people to opt out of the NHS if they wish
· Re-examine community care and support congregate communities for people with learning disabilities
· Restore free NHS dental check-ups and eye tests
So privatise the NHS and lock disabled people up. Nice. hmm

thermalsinapril Sun 28-Apr-13 09:31:47

> I also accept that people who have religious beliefs should not be made to officiate. (I am an atheist myself.)

That's an interesting one Reasonrules. On the one hand religious organisations can have a blanket ban on gay marriage. But on the other hand, this leaves no room for the more liberal religious people to have this opportunity. It would be nice if each (insert religious leader) could at least make their own personal choice about this, rather than being banned from officiating.

Dawndonna Sun 28-Apr-13 11:55:20
ComposHat Mon 29-Apr-13 17:59:46

I think the more a spotlight is shone onto UKIP it will be counter productive, til now they haven't really been scrutinised to any degree and not much scrutiny has been paid to anything other than their anti-EU, anti-imigration tubthumping.

If they have to start to explain what their policy is on a range of issues, people will see their policies in these areas are either batshit crazy or non-existent. I think a similar thing happened to Nick Griffin when he was on question time and made himself look like a complete tool.

flatpackhamster Mon 29-Apr-13 18:01:04

If people are voting UKIP because they like their excellent policies on a range of issues, then that might happen. If they're voting UKIP to stick a massive two fingers up to all the self entitled shuffle munchers who are making such a dog's breakfast of running the country, then it won't happen.

ComposHat Mon 29-Apr-13 18:21:41

If people are voting UKIP because they like their excellent policies on a range of issues

What are these excellent policies? All their spokemsen (and they are all men) come across as golf club bores, whose polices seem cribbed from a Daily Mail editorial.

When they are placed under scrutiny by the media their crazy proposals - for example their 'flat tax' proposals which will cost lower and middle earners a fortune and will deliver a tax cut for the wealthy or their policy on cutting maternity pay - will make them look like the extreme right wing swivel eyed idiots they are.

Dawndonna Mon 29-Apr-13 18:25:53

If you read the article, you may note that they're having trouble finding policies. Those they do have are racist, disablist, anti women. The fiscal policies so far discussed are farcical.

ComposHat Mon 29-Apr-13 18:31:00

It is an illogical grab bag of petty prejudices. They market themselves as a'libertarian party' but if they claim to be a 'libertarian' party - why the opposition to gay marriage?

Surely if they believe in the freedom of the individual from the state, then surely that should include the 'liberty' to marry someone of your chosing?

flatpackhamster Mon 29-Apr-13 19:16:48

ComposHat

What are these excellent policies? All their spokemsen (and they are all men) come across as golf club bores, whose polices seem cribbed from a Daily Mail editorial.

When they are placed under scrutiny by the media their crazy proposals - for example their 'flat tax' proposals which will cost lower and middle earners a fortune and will deliver a tax cut for the wealthy or their policy on cutting maternity pay - will make them look like the extreme right wing swivel eyed idiots they are.

It is an illogical grab bag of petty prejudices. They market themselves as a'libertarian party' but if they claim to be a 'libertarian' party - why the opposition to gay marriage?

Surely if they believe in the freedom of the individual from the state, then surely that should include the 'liberty' to marry someone of your chosing?

My point was not 'UKIP's policies are excellent' but 'Your logic only applies if people are choosing UKIP for its policies rather than to stick two fingers up to the other parties'.

ComposHat Mon 29-Apr-13 19:19:17

Right sorry for misunderstanding!

Even so, but if people are more aware of the sort of party they are handing thei protest vote to, they may think again about the wisdom of selecting them as the recipiant of their protest vote.

flatpackhamster Mon 29-Apr-13 19:28:09

ComposHat

Right sorry for misunderstanding!

Even so, but if people are more aware of the sort of party they are handing thei protest vote to, they may think again about the wisdom of selecting them as the recipiant of their protest vote.

Where do you suggest they put their protest vote in to? Which party offers them a chance to object to mass immigration and EU membership? Which party doesn't have any MPs and doesn't represent a powerful political class which has no grasp of the real world?

flatpackhamster Mon 29-Apr-13 19:30:40

Incidentally, I think that people are choosing UKIP for some of its policies, but not all of them. I agree that their policies are also contradictory in places and that's because, like all political parties UKIP is made up of more than one person, and where you have two (or more) people interested in politics, you have an argument. UKIP does need to get its policy vacuum sorted out, and do some serious costings on its tax cut measures, which, while they are by and large worthy need some numbers behind them. Where would UKIP cut? They've said the quangos will go and the powers will be returned to the county councils, but that won't save all the money needed to cut taxes.

ComposHat Mon 29-Apr-13 19:34:33

I don't know, as I'm neither anti-EU (although it is in need of reform) and think the risks of migration are overstated and the opportunities neglected, it isn't something I'm looking to do.

But the Green party is quite Eurosceptic I think.

flatpackhamster Mon 29-Apr-13 19:37:28

ComposHat
I don't know, as I'm neither anti-EU (although it is in need of reform) and think the risks of migration are overstated and the opportunities neglected, it isn't something I'm looking to do.

But the Green party is quite Eurosceptic I think.

No, they're pro-EU and want full membership. I can't recall for certain without looking at their website but I think their GE manifesto said they were in favour of joining the Euro.

On the subject of immigration, whether or not you're in favour of mass immigration (and 5 million gross in 10 years - or 8% of the UK population - is mass in my book) usually depends on whether or not your job and life opportunities are improved by it. For example, public sector workers, whose salaries are guaranteed by the state, are more in favour than private sector workers whose salaries have fallen in many sectors.

ComposHat Mon 29-Apr-13 19:50:30

Flatpack It is interesting, they are opposed to the EU as it exists and don't want it to function as an economic or cultural bloc - which puts them on a more Eurosceptic or perhaps more accurately an EU-sceptic footing than the Tories.

policy.greenparty.org.uk/eu

I'd take issue with your figures on imigration and the way you present them. Net migration 2003 -2012 was 2 million, of which 38% were students, a sizeable proportion of whom will have left after completing their courses (I know all about dodgy student vias, but that isn't the majority of cases).

flatpackhamster Mon 29-Apr-13 20:11:55

ComposHat

Flatpack It is interesting, they are opposed to the EU as it exists and don't want it to function as an economic or cultural bloc - which puts them on a more Eurosceptic or perhaps more accurately an EU-sceptic footing than the Tories.

Well then they make the same mistake that everyone makes about the EU, which is imagining they can remake it in their chosen image. .

I'd take issue with your figures on imigration and the way you present them. Net migration 2003 -2012 was 2 million, of which 38% were students, a sizeable proportion of whom will have left after completing their courses (I know all about dodgy student vias, but that isn't the majority of cases).

Well you can always take a look at the latest census figures and compare them to the country as it was in 2001. I think 5 million is probably an underestimate, given the number of people who came on a student visa and then disappeared. Yes, many British people left the UK, mostly for our ex-colonies in the antipodes and Canada, so the net figure is lower. But I think your imagined 1.5 million over 10 years is way off the mark. We had a million Poles arrive. Many of them have settled down and had families.

Again, it depends where and how you live as to whether or not you see it. But it's there.

I knew a UKIP councillor. He was a pleasant enough man, but also a self-confessed racist. Evidently, this did not bother UKIP.

kyya Sun 30-Jun-13 15:27:50

Take a look at there manifesto, compared to the three other parties which are exactly the same in my view as in only out for their own interests and full of public school boy millionaires UKIP policy seems to genuinely deal with issues affecting us.

A vote for for Labour/ Tory or the Libs is a vote for things to get worse, nothing has changed under these and nothing ever will, its your fault the country is in such a disastrous state as you believe the left wing BBC slur campaigns and blindly follow, go on their website then compare it to the oxford 3 party sites and then decide instead of regurgitating lies.

people who arent interested in politics deserve bad governments, we have never had such incompetent fools in charge in the history of the UK and the first time a party comes along that may make an actual difference people just lie and ridicule them.

I am voting UKIP as i would be ashamed to look my kids in the eye and tell them I voted for Conservative, Labour or the libs and sold their future and their country away.

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