To be depressed at the countrys vile attacks on the death of mrs T

(48 Posts)
landrover Wed 10-Apr-13 23:11:28

Thats it really, it saddens me that anybody could be so hateful about somebodys death.
So you didn't agree with the polices, at least she wasn't like todays mps, trying to please everybody so they keep their jobs!

CSIJanner Wed 10-Apr-13 23:13:46

I think Russell Brand summed it up quite aptly:

"If love is something you cherish, it is hard to glean much joy from death, even in one's enemies."

yousankmybattleship Wed 10-Apr-13 23:16:02

There has been plenty said about this already, but if you don't like what's being said then don't read it.
Many people have valid reasons for wanting to talk about the damage she did to this country though and as the tax payers are subbing a show funeral I think we are entitled to express an opinion about her life.

FrameyMcFrame Wed 10-Apr-13 23:16:06


landrover Wed 10-Apr-13 23:16:26

That s a lovely quote CSI. Having read all this week about the bloke who killed his children in a fire, sort of puts it all into perspective really x

McBalls Wed 10-Apr-13 23:17:02

What vile attacks?

landrover Wed 10-Apr-13 23:17:53

Thats fair enough You sank, but maybe hope im sure that we all have a bit of humanity in us somewhere x sad

ParadiseChick Wed 10-Apr-13 23:19:10

What are you on about?

Is the slate wiped clean when you take your last breath?

Aspirational quotes from Russell brand?

I give up. Do try harder.

FrameyMcFrame Wed 10-Apr-13 23:19:34

She didn't

I dont understand either hmm

FFS some people truly believe that she caused deaths, suicides, put people onto the streets, put generations out of work, killed communities, covered up Hillsborough. I won't celebrate her death. But I'm not going to tell people who want to celebrate not to.

If there is an afterlife, which would be a surprise to him, my Scottish, mill worker, mining area, working class Grandfather will be there to meet her. Not in a good way.

yousankmybattleship Wed 10-Apr-13 23:21:13

I'm not sure how relevant Russell Brand's quote is. I glean no joy from her death, but given that it has been politicised by having a ceremonial funeral I feel justified in expressing my view about the way she broke down public services and destroyed communties.

christinarossetti Wed 10-Apr-13 23:21:37

It seems to me that the costly state funeral planned is the focus of a lot of very appropriate attacks, rather than her death per se.

A week after savage welfare cuts which will plunge thousands into poverty, and the country decides to spend a couple of million on the funeral of a rich woman whose family could well, well afford it.

That's what's vile (along with a lot of what Thatcher did and stood for).

landrover Wed 10-Apr-13 23:23:10

Paradise, i suppose you are right about is the slate wiped clean when you die, would make an interesting debate i guess x Dunno really would be my answer x

Failedhippy Wed 10-Apr-13 23:24:21

YouSank I completely agree.

She was a militant and destroyed communities up and down the country and in Ireland. Unless you have lived in those places and in those times it is important not judge a persons outward expressions of joy at her death.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I take no joy in her death now but would have had she died when she was in power. I hate everything she stood for and everything she did but does her dying now change any of that? No it doesn't. I severely resent paying for a state funeral. She should have had a private family do.

I don't know what you mean, 'attacks on the death of mrs T', I've not seen anyone with a bad word to say about her death.

(Sorry, couldn't resist)

I do find some of it upsetting when it gets personal, and I was shocked, but either I've been jaded by repeated exposure to off jokes about it or I find your rhetoric difficult to stomach.

1) It's not 'the country', it's people. Britain is not an homogeneous mass, despite what the right-wing press like to believe.

2) Yes, she was pretty like today's MPs.

3) If you object to people disrespecting someone who has died, it is hypocritical to imply that it would be ok to disrespect today's MPs.

BIWI Wed 10-Apr-13 23:30:35

It's probably worth reflecting on just why some people express such negative views about Margaret Thatcher.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Wed 10-Apr-13 23:30:47

christinarossetti excellent post!

landrover Wed 10-Apr-13 23:31:48

Lunatic, yes you are right, there are more important things to get upset about!
Its a funny thing but i have lurked on mumsnet over the years and i guess ive been surprised at the strength of feeling about this [i shouldnt be though, having read am i unreasonable all these years!!!]
So i guess i have been a little bit taken aback!

Still Im sure we will have the Daily Mail to give us other stuff to talk about tomorrow!!!! wink

HollyBerryBush Wed 10-Apr-13 23:34:23

People will have different opinions about certain issues.

My opinion is if the miners (and others) weren't holding the country to ransom none of it would have happened.

Lest we forget incidents of miners on bridges with concrete slabs, more than one death of a strike breaker with a slab through his windscreen.

Free choice? not if you went against the union and broke the strike. Free choice my arse in those days.

Not just the miners either, the old GPO were pretty adept at sending to Coventry too - more than one suicide there because of colleagues treatment post strike

Sympathy for strikers? not a jot. They will also meet their maker.

Growlithe Wed 10-Apr-13 23:34:57

Russell Brand also said this in the same article as quoted before. And I think this is what we should be 'depressed' about, as a country:'

Perhaps, though, Thatcher "the monster" didn't die yesterday from a stroke, perhaps that Thatcher died as she sobbed self-pitying tears as she was driven, defeated, from Downing Street, ousted by her own party. By then, 1990, I was 15, adolescent and instinctively anti-establishment enough to regard her disdainfully. I'd unthinkingly imbibed enough doctrine to know that, troubled as I was, there was little point looking elsewhere for support. I was on my own. We are all on our own. Norman Tebbit, one of Thatcher's acolytes and fellow "Munsters evacuee", said when the National Union of Mineworkers eventually succumbed to the military onslaught and starvation over which she presided: "We didn't just break the strike, we broke the spell." The spell he was referring to is the unseen bond that connects us all and prevents us from being subjugated by tyranny. The spell of community.

WhizzforAtomms Wed 10-Apr-13 23:35:12

Sorry for posting the same thing twice, but Sunny Hundal has a few examples of the hypocrisy shown by some who have claimed to be upset at the bad taste of criticism after Thatcher's death but who were happy to be equally irreverent after Chavez died, and after Paul Foot died - The time when right-wingers celebrated the death of a politician.

I have said nothing publicly about Thatchers death as respect that she has a family and have opted for the old if you have nothing good to say then say nothing at all.

What I will say is that I am a child of a 70's and 80's South Yorkshire pit town. I remember communites torn apart and then turning on each other to finish the job when they were running out of choices. I have lived in pit villages that were decimated beyond and left beyond depressed filled with people who are still being told they are worthless and a drain on society. There are reasons behind bitterness that are hard to understand if you weren't there.

landrover Wed 10-Apr-13 23:39:22

It is interesting, the thoughts of the mums netters, its nice to have views that are more of a debate than a fight!! Wonder what will happen when Tony Blair dies !!! (bloody hell)


Do you not normally post here (when you refer to the 'thoughts of mums netters)? Not that it's not nice to see you, I'm just curious - what were you expecting then?

landrover Wed 10-Apr-13 23:43:50

Sorry, I lurk a lot!!!(mostly on am i unreasonable!!!) When I say the thoughts, i mean a nicer debate as opposed to the bunfights that occasionally happen!!!! But its been interesting!!! smile

HollyBerryBush Wed 10-Apr-13 23:45:36

Tony Blair? 'd probably uncork a bottle of something and drink to his slow burn in hell, but I cant say he affected me enough to want to make a fool of myself in public by having a demo about him.

landrover Wed 10-Apr-13 23:45:44

Maybe i should have put this on chat, but I was genuinely interested (not a troll just in case you are wondering and deffo not from Daily Mail ) xx

IntheFrame Wed 10-Apr-13 23:45:53

She changed the face of Britain but was voted in . Anybody dancing on her grave is entitled to their opinion but as a she was voted in NOT at her state funeral.

I wasn't suggesting you were a troll, at all.

It's just you're obviously a newbie and, if you want to know, I was wanting to sound you out about what you thought we'd think, because it's always interesting to know what preconceptions people have.

I didn't mean any disrespect.

landrover Wed 10-Apr-13 23:49:09

Well im off to bed now! Thanks y all, its been good!!! xxx


Fargo86 Wed 10-Apr-13 23:55:54

Nobody has the right to a living. If you rely on the government for your job you are always going to at the mercy of changes in goverment policy. The communities that Thatcher "destroyed" were not forward-thinking communities that planned for the future. They were built around 1 form of industry, and once that industry was no longer needed, the communities colapsed. It is important to remember that the community formed around the industry, not the other way round.

Growlithe Wed 10-Apr-13 23:57:04

It is strange that as an opposite to Thatcher, you look to Blair. Blair was in no way opposite to Thatcher. He was a product of Thatcher.

Look backwards for an opposite to Thatcher, in Attlee, the greatest post war PM of the 20th century. Look at his achievements (really - look!) after inheriting post-war Britain.

pigletmania Thu 11-Apr-13 00:06:08

I agree it's vile immature and sys a lot about the person saying them

Growlithe Thu 11-Apr-13 00:08:50

piglet help us please, what does it say about the person saying them?

WhizzforAtomms Thu 11-Apr-13 00:12:22

The prime minister described his disgust at people who aren’t currently feeling sad.

“I am horrified at the spectacle of the Left – incorporating Wales and Scotland – refusing to mourn the death of someone they hated.

To me she was like a grandmother that I also wanted to go on dates with. If others don’t remember her that way there must be something wrong with them.”

daily mash

BreconBeBuggered Thu 11-Apr-13 00:14:29

Fargo, equally, if you work for a private company you're at the mercy of the drive to make a profit, and if that means outsourcing your job to workers thousands of miles away, tough shit, you should have planned for that. Is that what you're saying? Doesn't Thatcherism give you a lovely warm glow, eh?
Personally, I'm depressed at a lot of the humbug. Why should people who were in effect collateral damage in the 80s forgive or forget losing their livelihoods and/or communities?
Grow, completely agree about Blair.

doubleshotespresso Thu 11-Apr-13 00:17:42

I'm yet to see vile attacks????

And the comparisons to Blair are ridiculous- he was not at all her opposite, he was just far more practised at exploiting the media. But boy she began that sorry game didn't she? Ill bet the Saatchi family will be sending flowers!

Fargo86 Thu 11-Apr-13 00:20:40

Most people do plan for that, Bacon. Nobody expects to start work at 16 and continue in that company to 65 nowadays.

What good does it do to hold on to hate?

Inertia Thu 11-Apr-13 00:21:46

I'm more depressed about Mrs Thatcher's vile attacks on the country.

BreconBeBuggered Thu 11-Apr-13 00:29:27

Fargo, no, I don't think most people do plan for having the rug pulled out from underneath them, particularly if they weren't well-paid in the first place.

Growlithe Thu 11-Apr-13 00:33:27

Fargo so what you are saying is the labourers working in manufacturing, and the likes of the miners should have planned ahead to gain skills to change direction in their careers as and when necessary.

These are the people that were educated during or very soon after WW2, targeted at that time towards jobs to rebuild the country after war.

These are the people who came from generations of people doing the same job.

They didn't just need to plan to sort it out. They needed a crystal ball. And even if they had it, who would have paid to educate them to get them out of labouring?

"Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment." UN charter of human rights. Yes, we do have the right to a living.

Blu Thu 11-Apr-13 00:44:04

Fargo86,any of the pits closed were still highly productive. They were concreted up forever for idealogical reasons, not the economy.

Forward thinking needs to come from the top and bottom. MT could easily have instigated development programmes on advance of pit closures. Having grown up in Nottingham it is my view that the reason the strikes were less successful in the Notts pits because the LA had implemented initiatives designed to encourage and support alternative light industry in the area so there was alternative employment. They did that under a labour gvt and a labour county council.

Look what MT did. The major enterprise zone she established was the LDDC. All local democracy in planning control was suspended. A free for all for the banks. She led de regulation of the banks. She may have dealt with the unions, but she threw us to a hungrier wolf.

Blu Thu 11-Apr-13 00:46:33

'MANY of the pits...'

Sorry for general mess oh phone posting.

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