Helping DP paying off old debt

(144 Posts)
KittenCamile Wed 10-Apr-13 19:58:22

Hi

I found out last year that DP owes £30,000 to his parents. The loan was taken against his house.

This loan was taken when he was married, he has since devoirced and kept the house (which was his and in his name) and got all of the debt.

So his parents are now talking about starting payments again (they stopped when he split with his ex as he couldn't afford the morgage, rent on a flat for him. Matinance and that).

We have been together 2 yrs and lived together 1. DP has no money, his expenditures meet his income, because of this I am the one currently saving so we can start ttc, I pay for food ect. THis I don't mind as I veiw it as a House hold income and when we have DC's that's how it should be. He sold the house but it made no money so none of the debt was paid off.

So my question is, AIBU to want to know who's debt it is (DP EXW was decleared banKrupt before they married) and what is was for?

Iam going to be the one paying it back as DP can't afford any extra outgoings. To me this is just an unbeliveble amount of money and I feel sick just thinking about it.

Will it make it worse if I actually end up paying for the big wedding the couldn't afford or the child they couldn't afford?

I don't see any other way, if his parents want the money back and he has none it is going to fall to me

Sorry about spelling, I'm dyslexic and on my phone (not that spell check helps as all the words look the same to me!)

MandragoraWurzelstock Wed 10-Apr-13 20:00:31

yes you have a right to know. Has he not been willing to give you this information?

KittenCamile Wed 10-Apr-13 20:03:34

I haven't asked properly but he has been very vauge when I have brought it up. I think some of it might be his EXW's and he is worried I might get upset by that

OneHandFlapping Wed 10-Apr-13 20:04:11

You would be mad to pay your dp's debt. If your relationship goes tits up, you won't see a penny of it again. You'd be better off paying some of the mortgage, assuming there is one, as at least you will be making an investment in the house.

It's irrelevant whose the debt was. It was a debt of his previous marriage, and he still has the house - an asset of the previous marriage. I assume that was the deal when they divorced.

Personally I wouldn't try and conceive another child with a man who patently can't afford it either.

MandragoraWurzelstock Wed 10-Apr-13 20:07:07

I agree with One - you're taking the place of his parents, he's never going to grow up at this rate.

He should be paying off his own debts. Until he is debt free then I'd keep separate finances.

Squitten Wed 10-Apr-13 20:08:21

I don't understand why it falls to you. If his parents want money from him that he doesn't have, then he needs to sort that out with them. What's it got to do with you, you aren't married so they have no claim to your money?!

I think you would be foolish to pay off his debts and very foolish to have a child when your finances are precarious

TidyDancer Wed 10-Apr-13 20:08:33

I'm not sure I would want to take on the £30k debt of someone who I wasn't married to or had children with. Either way though, if you regard it as a joint debt and you are expected to contribute to paying it off, then of course you have a right to know what it was for.

Tbh, I think you need to think carefully about the financial balance in this relationship.

KittenCamile Wed 10-Apr-13 20:08:40

He sold the house, it was too far away from where we need to live.

I can afford a DC on my own and Have very surportive faamily

expatinscotland Wed 10-Apr-13 20:10:32

WHY on EARTH are you considering having a child with this utter loser?

Don't do it! £30K? And he's cocklodging at yours for free? WTF?

You're better off on your own and getting a sperm donor, at least it doesn't come with £30k worth of debt.

expatinscotland Wed 10-Apr-13 20:11:54

He can't even afford the child he's already got and is considering having another? It's too bad there's no legal way to stop such people from procreating with every 'partner' they get with.

jelliebelly Wed 10-Apr-13 20:15:06

Why would you even consider paying his debt??

jelliebelly Wed 10-Apr-13 20:18:25

If it was secured against the house and when it was sold there was no surplus surely the debt should be written off - that's what a bank would do in the same situation! Irrelevant what it was for really.

CookieLady Wed 10-Apr-13 20:18:57

Don't take on his debt. It's his responsibility not yours. What if things go wrong in your relationship? Don't do it.

MandragoraWurzelstock Wed 10-Apr-13 20:20:41

he has really got it made hasn't he

OP I am sorry to sound cynical

he might be the nicest bloke on earth but this is all wrong.

MandragoraWurzelstock Wed 10-Apr-13 20:21:30

what's he said to his folks? I can't afford it but Kitten will pay it back.

seriously? What do you get out of this?

CabbageLeaves Wed 10-Apr-13 20:23:19

I love my partner. No way on earth would I let them take on my debt like that???

It's not about your love...it's about why he doesn't see it's a problem!

ImTooHecsyForYourParty Wed 10-Apr-13 20:23:39

I really wouldn't pay his debt.

It would be extremely unreasonable of his parents to expect that of you.

If he can't even be honest with you about what the debt is, then why the hell should you pay it?

mumofweeboys Wed 10-Apr-13 20:24:49

I think Im being a bit dim. A loan was took out on dp's house so how does he owe his parents the money?

meditrina Wed 10-Apr-13 20:24:54

So he sold the former marital house - did the sale clear the mortgage? Are there debts other than that to his parents?

Where does he live now? Is it on a mortgage or rented? Are you joint owner/mortgage holder or is your name on the lease? Or do you live separately?

Unless you are married, or have your name on the title to property, you could be left high and dry. It sounds as if you might be in a fairly exposed position already if you are cohabiting. Do not make this worse by remaining in ignorance of his wider financial affairs.

CloudsAndTrees Wed 10-Apr-13 20:25:04

If he secured the debt against his house, then his parents should have been on the list of creditors for when the house was sold.

If they didn't cover themselves properly when they made the loan, I have no sympathy for their position at all. Saying that though, if your DH has been vague about it when you have tried to bring it up, are you sure you know that that really was the arrangement?

Either way, if your DP can't afford to pay his debts, then he shouldn't be taking extra responsibility by having a child. It is irrelevant whether you can afford the child on your own, you cannot create the child on your own so he has to have responsibility for it too.

Another one saying PLEASE don't pay this persons debt. If you stay with him, separate finances and protect your assets.

QueenCuntyChops Wed 10-Apr-13 20:29:55

It sounds liek they are all fleecing you.

I'd have nothing to do with it.

Xales Wed 10-Apr-13 20:32:31

You have been together 2 years and living together 1. You are not married. This debt was run up between him and his ex wife.

What happens if you pay back £15k then split up? That is your money, you will never see again that he spent historically with another person.

He cannot afford to pay towards a child with you or a 50/50 split of bills if you are paying all the food etc.

What is his income and his expenditure?

You are crazy to even think of paying this for him.

LIZS Wed 10-Apr-13 20:33:16

so why didn't he clear the debt when he sold the house ? If the loan were with anyone else he'd have had to or face legal action. Presumbaly he got the house/debt as part of his divorce settlement so he is liable. Sounds like he may have been living beyond his means for a long time , at his parents and now your expense. Unless he is prepared to review the household budget with you, address this and make a commitment to pay them back then the relationship does not sound hopeful.

Viviennemary Wed 10-Apr-13 20:40:04

It is not your debt and was incurred before you even met your DP so in no way should you make yourself responsible for paying it off. If you are buying a house together or plan to buy one in the future then fair enough a joint mortgage for a jointly owned house. The debt is between your DP and his parents and nothing to do with you.

whattodoo Wed 10-Apr-13 20:46:14

What was the original loan value? Has he paid any of it off?

How will you survive financially if you take maternity leave?

HildaOgden Wed 10-Apr-13 20:51:23

1.Do not marry this man until he clears his debt
2.Do not have a child with him,until he has cleared his debt.
3.Do not entwine your life with a man who runs up debts,bums off his parents and then leeches off you when they run out of patience waiting to be repaid.
4.Do not assume that love conquers all,it doesn't...
5.do not assume that he won't find another womans purse to dip into,if you close yours to him.

He sounds like a cocklodger par excellence.Don't fall into his trap.

Snazzynewyear Wed 10-Apr-13 20:53:00

I also don't understand where the money has gone. So when the house was sold, how much money did it raise and who got paid that? You said it 'made no money' so was he 30K or more in negative equity at the time of the sale?

Of course you are not BU to want to know more about the details of the debt. It is not your responsibility. I suggest that if your DP has no money, he is either going to have to look for ways to make more, or cut his income so that he can start paying his parents back even if that is in very tiny instalments - that should be his job not yours. I know what you're saying about family finances all being one, but that shouldn't mean you sacrificing your hopes and dreams to pay off his debts while he sacrifices nothing.

Asheth Wed 10-Apr-13 20:56:50

Are his parents asking for the money now because they know you have savings? Sounds very unfair that you should pay it. This should be between your dp and his parents. Nothing to do with you.

SatsukiKusukabe Wed 10-Apr-13 21:02:54

You were together a year before he told you he had 30,000 pounds of debt? And you want to pay it off? Why are you ttc with this person

duffybeatmetoit Wed 10-Apr-13 21:11:57

DON'T DO IT!

I made that mistake when I got together with stbxh. He had numerous loans, there were family issues. As I loved him and thought we were building a future together I suggested that I would pay the bills so that he could clear his debts and we could then start to do everything we wanted without any debts hanging over us.

I kept my side of the bargain, he didn't. There was always a reason why but he turned out to be a grade A cocklodger. He eventually walked out and as I made the monumental error of marrying him I am looking at the probability of losing half of the value of my assets. Which no doubt he will just piss away.

gloucestergirl Wed 10-Apr-13 21:25:45

Kitten I have been/am in a similar situation to you. I understand why other people who don't know your relationship will tell you to get out and don't pay off his debt. But you clearly want to remain with this man and want to have a child with him as you haven't even mentioned leaving him in your post.

My DH has a serious debt. It is about 20 grand and I have not and will not leave him as he made stupid mistakes when he was younger. We have a couple as friends and they have split up due to a situation very much like this, with a baby of under a year. Finanical problems are now the biggest cause of splitting up.

If you just blindly pay this debt you are setting your relationship up to crash and burn because you will be even sicker once you have paid off the debt and your other half takes you financial for granted for the rest of your relationship (and his parents!!!).

What I did was work out a budget for myself and DH. I wanted to know every last penny he owed and earned. He gives me ALL of his money after being paid except for an amount that we have both agreed as "pocket money". He had to get internet banking (what a fight that was) and I have access to it. We have 1/2 days a month of doing internet banking where everything is paid. He contacted all his creditors and discussed repayment. Basically he has acted like a child finanicially for years and if he wants me to bail him out then he has had to agree to some conditions. It has been a tough 6 months of sorting out his money problems and HE will be paying it off for years and years to come (200 quid a month for the next 6 years) - working an extra day a week to finance it. But together we have sorted out a future that means our family is financially secure and he is finally financially responsible.

How come your partner has no disposable income? Does he have a job? Can he get a second? What are his spending habits? He must be able to contribute something. Where do you live - can you move somewhere cheaper? Sell the car and use public transport? Can you speak to his parents about a long-term payment plan depending on the employment of your partner? You should act as the organiser, but make it clear that you are NOT going pay the debt.

Something this big needs proper planning and joint work. Without that there is no basis for a future, especially not if there is child involved. He will probably object to being treated like a child (men who avoid dealing with money problems are essentially trying to dodge acting as adults and will act like a willful teenage when told to clean up their act). But you have to be firm. I hope that you find some solution for your problem.

maddening Wed 10-Apr-13 21:32:43

You say the debt was secured on the house? Was that officially or just how they agreed it between themselves?

SatsukiKusukabe Wed 10-Apr-13 21:33:26

does he pay proper maintainance for the child he has? because just because you can afford a DC in your own doesn't mean you want that kind person as father to your child

maddening Wed 10-Apr-13 21:36:07

Oh and everything Gloucestergirl said to the letter.

What are his parent's repayment terms and if he submits and I&e to show how much he can afford then they should come to a repayment plan together.

OHforDUCKScake Wed 10-Apr-13 21:37:05

"I can afford DC and I have supportive family."

It sounds as though you're actually preparing for that.?

I dont understand why you have to pay off his debt at all. What do you think will happen if you dont?

LessMissAbs Wed 10-Apr-13 22:04:26

If the debt isn't secured, eg on a property and registered, it isn't enforceable other than as a personal obligation against the lender. ie your DP.

I'm a bit worried about the parents actually. Are they now insisting he pays it because they know hes onto a good thing by shacking up with you?

Do men normally come with 30k payments to be made on them?

Hes fathered one child which he doesn't pay for and possibly bankrupted one wife. Hes in debt to his parents who are trying to get an innocent third party to pay them money. What a charming family.

Walk away.

No, in fact, run away.

DontSHOUTTTTTT Wed 10-Apr-13 22:12:39

If you stay with your DP please see a financial advisor/solicetor and get all the information out in the open so that you both understand everything . You need to understand the nature of the debts and your current financial situation. You also should discuss both of your future expectations and document everything that you decide. Whether you decide to 'give' him the money or 'lend' him the money you should document it. If your DP loves you he should be happy to do this for you. It will help both of you to think about things and help bring things out into the open.
You shouldn't be embarrassed to discuss these things with each other. If you can't do it now then it doesn't bode well for the future.

SavoyCabbage Wed 10-Apr-13 22:19:48

If his income matches is expenditure he needs to get another job.

My dh had five jobs at once to put himself through university. Paper round, cleaning toilets, bookeeping, working in a crepe van and night shift receptionist.

Assuming of course he spends not a penny more than he needs to as he has such enormous debts.

Patchouli Wed 10-Apr-13 22:25:57

Does he have a child already? Or was that some sort of spousal maintenance?

teacherandguideleader Wed 10-Apr-13 22:34:09

I cannot believe you are even considering paying his debt off!

I say that as someone who has some debts. There is no way on this earth I would expect my partner to pay them off. They are my debts, caused by my own stupidity (well, I say stupidity - mental health issues contributed to my spending significantly but its no excuse).

There is no way I would consider bringing a child into the relationship unless the debt was paid off (which it will be very soon) as I do not want him to get lumbered with it.

Ouchmyhead Wed 10-Apr-13 23:28:14

Against most of the other opinions on here, but I have been in this situation to a lesser extent. My DP owed 15k on a loan he had to pay for the deposit on his house, this was all before he met me. After a year we decided to get a joint account, and use my wages to cover the loan repayments. I really had no issue with paying off 'his' debt, I love him, we are planning a future together (getting married in December :D) why wouldn't I want to help him? Its all worked out brilliantly, financially whatever we earn is 'ours'. For the past year ive been unable to wprk due to Crohns and he has fully supported both of us. My point is, it works both ways. You may be helping him with debt now, but in the future the future could easily turn and you'll need help from him. If you're relationship is as serious and committed as it sounds, I'm a big believer in trusting your partner and helping them with whatever they need.

Morloth Wed 10-Apr-13 23:36:01

Crazy.

Don't pay his debt, don't marry and for god's sake don't have a child with him.

Bloody hell.

lisianthus Thu 11-Apr-13 00:58:50

Sounds like a massive scam, really. He borrows money from his parents, has a lovely time spending it, then finds a nice woman with cash to pay it back for him. Sorry.

In the best case scenario, you will be stripping yourself of your savings just when you need financial security for your child, and you will have no assets or comeback if he decides to up and leave (not that he's adding much to the mix, but then you'll have taken an emotional hit as well as a hit to your financial security). His parents will be sitting there "all right Jack". Super.

Cerisier Thu 11-Apr-13 04:50:56

His track record on money and relationships is terrible. He has charmed you and deceived you.

You are being taken for a ride OP. Be very careful.

Lavenderhoney Thu 11-Apr-13 05:35:00

It is an unbelievable amount of money. I would be feeling sick too, op.

And thanking my lucky starts its not MY debt and all the work and savings and any cash from my family given to me wouldn't be used to pay it off. He took a year to tell you? He has lied to you as he didnt mind moving in with you doing all the paying and saving to ttc.

Do you really believe there is a loan? How did it pay these " instalments " before? Not that you should enquire as surely you won't pay it!

Do your parents know he contributes zero to current living situation and now has the balls to ask you to pay off his loan with his parents!!!! Are they really supportive of you having a baby with this man or have they always said they would support you in the past and don't know how willingly you would put yourself in a financially constrained situation with this man?

His outgoings exceed his in comings? Does he pay maintenance? Note that this cost will not go away and you will have years ahead of keeping him.

Oh, and your salary is not " household income" it's your salary and your money and he isn't contributing.

Sorry op, but I would finish the relationship. Or at least take off my rose tinted specs!

financialwizard Thu 11-Apr-13 06:11:40

I married and had a baby with a man who was in a similar situation op. only he told me his ex was the one who left him in financial strife. Less than 6 months after I had my son I found the truth and left but that was after I paid off 40k worth of debt.

Thirteen years later he is still spending money like water.

AnyFucker Thu 11-Apr-13 06:43:21

Don't be one of those people who will pay any price to be in a relationship

Anthracite Thu 11-Apr-13 06:51:56

You shouldn't even think about contributing to the load until you are married.

Why can't he pay any of it back himself? He has a duty to pay it back. He needs to earn more money or spend less so that the has the cash to pay it back.

Raum Thu 11-Apr-13 06:58:16

Not your debt to pay, it's all on him for not sorting it sooner.. This is why you never lend to family

msrisotto Thu 11-Apr-13 07:05:37

Don't do it! Presumably his wife didn't get bankrupt all by herself. I'd bet he had a lot to do with that.

Lavenderhoney Thu 11-Apr-13 07:07:15

Even if you marry him you are not liable for his debt and are under no obligation to pay it.

I was in a similar situation when I met DH (£10,000 debt). The first thing I wanted was to know every financial detail so I knew exactly what we were facing and how to deal with it.

He moved into my flat (as planned before I knew about debt). He paid a contribution to cover the extra in food and bills as a result of him moving in and used all of the rest of his wages to pay off the debt (which he did in 1 year). My rationale for this approach was that 1) I wanted debt paid off ASAP - I hate debt and would not have married or started a family with him until debt free 2) I was not out of pocket by him moving in and the house was still fully in my name and him not contributing towards the mortgage (separate account to bills and food) meant he had no hold over my flat if things went TU.

As soon as debt was paid off, we opened a joint savings account where the amount he used to pay off debt went in (and went towards our wedding) . But again had things gone TU, we would have split that and walked away, him with some money behind him to rent or buy and me with my flat and some extra savings

DH (of 7 years and with 2 dc) who had previously been a spender and in debt, side then completely changed hs mind set and like me will always want to save for things in advance (except for a house of course). Our contribution to our expenses ad savings is proportionate to our wages and we are each left we the same amount of spending money each month.

However you decide to handle this, try and do it in a way that means he is paying off the debt not you so he takes responsibility and sees the debt going down (sounds like it will mean you contributing more towards household bills to do this). Also protect your assets/savings. I would also not be thinking about weddings and dc until debt is paid off (by all means, save towards them but keep the money separate and in your name).

KittenCamile Thu 11-Apr-13 09:09:59

Thank you for all your replys, I didn't plan posting well and couldn't get back on to read and reply till this morning.

To clarify a few things,

DP sold his house last year (he was a home owner before he met his EXW) and it pretty mucH broke even, no extra debt was made.

His parents lent him the money against the house but nothing was ever made offical.

DP was made redundant a month before his DD was born and had to get any job which he did but it paid less and also means he has to save £3000 a year to commute, bringing his monthly income down.

EXW was decleared bankrupt 3 yrs before they met.

I found out last night that DP sold his share of his dads house (his dad past away, His current debt is DM and SD) which was £25,000 to pay off his then W debt.

Yes they spent the 5 yrs of their relationship spending more than they earned and somehow mangaed to create £30,000 worth of debt!!!

I don't think I should pay off the debt but any extra money DP has to pay monthly will mean I have to cover something else to will kind of be paying it off anyway if that makes sense!

DP pays a third of his salary as matinance (we have his DD 50/50), he pays 50% of the rent and bills on our house. I am on the lease. He pays half of what I pay towards the months food and petrol fund because otherwise we wouldn't have that much.

We could split everything 50/50, have a smaller house, no holidays, basic food and never have wine but I don't want to live like that so I pay extra so we can have extras. I don't see a probelm with that, as a house hold we have a nice life.

What DP can't afford in money to contribute to our DC he would contribute in time, as a house hold we can comfortably finace a DC (even two at some point), he would still be paying half of rent and all bills just not food and petrol. I am currently saving £500 a month for mat leave so I can easily have a year off. I do not expect anyone to pay for me or my family.

That was long sorry!

So IABU to pay but not to ask where the money went?

DP has created no new debt in the two years we have been together. I know this is true.

MadamFolly Thu 11-Apr-13 09:19:36

He cannot afford to pay parents back, if debt was against house it should be written off. Is he searching for a better paid job?

DontmindifIdo Thu 11-Apr-13 09:23:40

So, your DP borrowed money to pay for his ExW debts from his mum, it's not official but she wants it back now? He effectively lost that money in the house sale etc.

Could he talk to his mum, and say he can't afford to pay it back (because he can't, effectively he can only afford this by you paying for something he would normally be covering, effectively you will be paying for this debt), is there any way you can work round this? Does his mum need the money back or is it more hte principle that she lent it to him and he should pay back his debts? If it's the principle, can he go to see her, sit her down and explain that it's not something he can afford to pay back, and he feels uncomfortable asking you to pay for it (esp as it looks like it was money borrowed to clear his ExW's spending of one sort or another). Is there any other way to make this 'fair' - like saying if there's an inheritance coming, then he will forgo his share in favour of a sibling?

But I would be looking to sit down with him and go through the finances, is there anything else he could give up and/or increase the length of time he pays it back over to reduce the monthly outgoings?

whattodoo Thu 11-Apr-13 09:24:04

Why does he pay so much maintenance if you have his DD 50%?

I strongly feel that you shouldn't be thinking about having a child with him until the debt is paid.

He needs to put a plan together to pay off the debt. And he needs to show that he wants to do so - why did his parents have to ask him to start making repayments? Has he no pride - I'd be working my arise of in any number of jobs to pay back the debt asap.

I sort of see that if you are committed to each other long-term then your financial plans are joint. But he's a history of spending money that he doesn't have, and he s not being fully honest about his situation and how he's got in this mess.

whattodoo Thu 11-Apr-13 09:25:28

arise arse

KittenCamile Thu 11-Apr-13 09:34:03

Yes he is looking for a better paid job, its not as easy as that though is it? We both commute 4 hrs a day to London so getting a second job isn't an option as he would have no time and would not be able to have his DD.

His mum does not need the money back at all it is the princeple. DontmindifIdo idea of righting it off against his inheritance is good and practicle. He could pay a token £40-50 a month to them but that will never clear it.

His EXW wanted that much a month so put it in the devoirce, he couldn't afford to keep contesting things so it stayed, she asked his DM for £200 in mantinace also, so between the two of them she gets £1000 a month.

Morloth Thu 11-Apr-13 09:41:00

He cannot afford a second child.

Seriously don't have a child with this man.

You would be absolutely crazy to do so.

I would place a large bet that he is going to fuck you over financially.

Hell he might not even mean to (snort) but whether Daddy is a prick or just an idiot with money doesn't matter when kids need something and there is no cash.

Love is not enough.

AThingInYourLife Thu 11-Apr-13 09:42:11

So his mother is paying his ex-wife £200 a month and now she's planning to claw it back from you?

These are not good people.

They hid this financial disaster from you, and now they expect you to bail them all out.

You can't bring children into this mess.

Lambzig Thu 11-Apr-13 09:47:12

His exW is massively taking the mickey though, particularly if you have DD 50/50. Cannot understand why his DM is giving her money. Very dodgy set up.

whattodoo Thu 11-Apr-13 09:48:47

My God! This sounds like a whole big mess of financial nightmares.

Think really, very, terribly carefully before you get more entangled.

I really do feel for you though - its awful to fall in love with someone and then discover a whole load of stuff about them that you hadn't bargained on.

CloudsAndTrees Thu 11-Apr-13 09:52:37

This sounds very wierd.

LIZS Thu 11-Apr-13 09:53:12

That arrangement is just weird ! Effectively his maintenance is 1000 pcm and his mum has been subbing it and wants reimbursing by him repaying the loan. I suspect this only the surface of deeper issues. How old is their dc ? Are they local or nearer where the house was and his parents ? The fact he hah physically moved away suggests he was hoping to leave it all behind. What sort of relationship do you have with them.

Given what you have said he cannot afford to have another child, but nor realistically can you as it would mean giving up your job (commuting and childcare won't really stack up) and finding rent/mortgage, bills etc without his help. Walk away before he gets you and any future dc embroiled in this mess.

CookieLady Thu 11-Apr-13 09:59:04

Kitten, why on earth is his mother giving £200 pcm to exw? It's most peculiar.

larrygrylls Thu 11-Apr-13 10:13:42

I think people are being v judgmental here. I cannot imagine the same stance being taken if the sexes were reversed and the OP was a man.

Your partner really needs to renegotiate the maintenance agreement. What seems to have happened is that his XP has got a settlement based on his parents' wealth, which is really not right. If he cannot afford £1,000/month, he needs to go back to court and renegotiate. If his parents are wealthy and there is more than one child, I think it makes sense to ask them if they will forgive the debt in return for taking it (plus reasonable interest) out of their will.

You really need (together) to have an open and honest discussion with his parents about how to proceed. They may be appalled that you are paying off his debt (effectively) and have no desire to enforce it.

I also think that if you have plenty of money and a supportive family, there is no reason not to have a child and split all "family money" (as MN likes to call it) equally.

The big proviso here, of course, is where your partner is coming from. If it is genuinely in good faith, wanting to have a family with you and being prepared to make the appropriate time and money sacrifices to make it happen, I see nothing unhealthy about it. If, however, he sees you as a meal ticket, it will only end in tears. Only you can know the answer to that and you need to look at the situation in a very cold objective manner and see what you think.

Morloth Thu 11-Apr-13 10:23:21

DH would not have touched me with a bargepole in the same circumstances.

LifeofPo Thu 11-Apr-13 10:26:16

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

larrygrylls Thu 11-Apr-13 10:31:57

Morloth,

On that basis I would not have married my wife. I had a large central London flat (no mortgage), a good job, plenty of investments, she had a few K of student debt.

Money is to be used for families, not vice versa, and any sensible person can tell a gold digger from someone who is genuine.

Bakingtins Thu 11-Apr-13 10:37:11

There's a difference between 30K, a failed marriage, a child and expensive maintenance payments and a history of making bad decisions and then being dishonest about the financial mess and "a few K of student debt" though isn't there? I don't think anyone is suggesting that having any debt at the start of a relationship is dooming it to failure.

Morloth Thu 11-Apr-13 10:42:04

Student debts are different from money pissed up against a wall.

I would have married DH if he had been poor, I would not have done so if he was as the OP describes.

As good old Dr Phil says 'the best indicator of future behaviour is past behaviour', the OP would be foolish to trust her future children's financial security to this man.

ValentineWiggins Thu 11-Apr-13 10:55:07

His mum does not need the money back at all it is the princeple

What principle is this - that YOU should pay back his debt? HE cannot afford to pay it back without you subsidising him. This is NO different to if he was living on his own and couldn't afford to pay it back - what would his DM do then?

In this situation you need to start by ignoring the debt. Work out what is a fair way of splitting your household finances based on what you each earn. Up to you whether you do it proportionally to income or equally - do it the way that you would want to do it if there was no debt. IF he then has any spare money he can pay her back out of that - but budgetting to pay her back effectively out of your money just so that she can make a point is silly.

KittenCamile Thu 11-Apr-13 11:22:58

I don't think his mum has realised he has no surplus cash tbh, we don't want for anything, are going on holiday next month and I have saved a few thousand so far for a baby. Because of this I think, she thinks he is doing ok.

We do need to have a good chat with her but I wasn't sure whether I was BU wanting to be part of that conversation.

I think the inheritance is the way to go.

With regards to matinance, if I start saying it needs to be cut I am going to be accused of taking money off of DPs DD (she is 4 btw) yes DP4 family are wealthy and if anyone is a goldigger here it is his EXW but I am not willing to get into that mess.

The only thing that has upset me from this thread is that even though I work hard, have saved hard and have a very felxible job which means I can independantly afford a child I should have one because DP doesn't have an amazing job and debt!

Dp would be doing at least 50% of the child care (as he does now with his dd) so am I going be a dreadful mother because I will be the bread winner and dp will in part be a sahp? Do people only have dc if they can both independantly support them? I wouldn't even need to be full time!

whattodoo Thu 11-Apr-13 11:33:20

Oh kitten, I don't think anyone is suggesting you shouldn't start a family because of your DP's job or that has debts.

Its just that we are concerned about how the debts have arisen and that he has drip fed the details to you. We are jot emotionally involved, so its easier as an outsider to be cynical and see the pitfalls.

MN is the last place that would criticise or judge a woman planning on being the breadwinner and her DP doing the SAHP role.

LIZS Thu 11-Apr-13 11:46:57

but affording a child independently isn't straightforward. You'd have very limited income during ML , the few thousand you have saved won't last long and having that will limit any benefits you may qualify for. Childcare is expensive for when you go back and you'd have to use a long hour nursery or nanny for beyond 9-5. How can dp do 50% of childcare when he is travelling 4 hours a day to work? His dd will presumably be at school soon so he'll be more limited as to when he can see her but cost of her childcare (assuming ex-w is using it) will reduce , which could in turn create a conversation about his maintenance.

KittenCamile Thu 11-Apr-13 11:48:22

I'm sorry I missed the nt off! It should be shouldn't have a family.

If I'm going to be critisied for wanting a dc it should be my spelling not my bank balance that is critisised!

KittenCamile Thu 11-Apr-13 11:55:59

We works from home 2 days at the moment and will do 3 days when we have a dc. I work saturdays and he doesn't. Also I can change my job and be based where I live for a few years until DC would start school. DP does 3 pick ups and drop offs a week for his DD.

Our DC would do 1 day at childminders 9.30 till 5.30 at £42 a day. I have worked this out. Also I'm not pregnat so will have saved at least £10,000 for mat leave even if we get prgnant striaght away. I would need an income of £1500 a month to cover my half of bills and rent, plus food petrol and extras. My savings plus my work mat leave pay would more that cover this for a year.

howshouldibehave Thu 11-Apr-13 12:05:09

Can you not see how this is all going to go horribly wrong?

Why on earth does he pay maintenance if he has the child 50%?
Why would his mum pay his ex £200 a month??
How will he look after your to-be-conceived baby at home (please do NOT have a child with this man-you will regret being financially tied to him) whilst he's supposed to be working? Apologies if I've misunderstood there?

Don't. Just don't.

Morloth Thu 11-Apr-13 12:20:42

Great, you have a plan, now imagine doing all of that with someone who isn't shit with money and doesn't already have a whopping great debt.

lottiegarbanzo Thu 11-Apr-13 12:24:09

The debt is between him and his parents, not your responsibility, you are not even married. He needs to have a chat with them and explain his circumstances.

Regarding children, if you are happy to be the breadwinner for the next 25 years, have planned for that and understand that might really be what is going to happen, that's your choice.

lottiegarbanzo Thu 11-Apr-13 12:27:40

You seem to think he can work at home and provide childcare at the same time. That's just not true. Those are two fully-absorbing and mutually exclusive activities (or his work is not real work).

If you don't believe me, borrow a teething one year old, or a stroppy two year old for a day and try it.

Bakingtins Thu 11-Apr-13 12:42:06

You can't work from home and look after a baby or toddler at the same time. Your plan needs to include either having a non working SAHP (or working a few hours you can fit around the baby's naps and bedtimes) or paying for childcare whilst you both work. I don't think anyone is slating you for intending to be the breadwinner but your plan is not realistic.

whattodoo Thu 11-Apr-13 12:42:08

OP, do you know the original loan value and how much he paid off before his divorce? The answer to this will be a big indicator of his attitude to debt.

Also, wouldn't it be a good investment to use some of your savings to appoint a good solicitor to revisit the subject of maintenance with exW?

Personally I would rather hold off ttc for a few months while getting that arrangement on a better footing. She sounds like she's happy to take money off whoever she can so if she see's you with a new baby she might start her next plan of exploitation.

For the record, I don't begrudge any parent receiving a sensible amount of support, but this one seems to be taking more than her fair share.

comingintomyown Thu 11-Apr-13 12:43:48

If his DM is asking for the money to be repaid out of principle rather than necessity I doubt she will be happy about the advance inheritance route and nor would I be.

You sound financially astute and like someone who works and saves hard, does it not concern you throwing in your lot with someone with this history ?

Callisto Thu 11-Apr-13 12:45:18

Kitten, you're in such a good and independent place financially. Why are you going to chuck that all away? Seriously, I couldn't be with someone as dependent and irresponsible as your partner. And the business with his ex and his mother - just bizarre and very offputting.

You're obviously intelligent and educated with a good job and career in front of you and yet your're happy to settle for a bloke like this? I despair. sad

comingintomyown Thu 11-Apr-13 12:47:40

I agree Callisto but it love isnt it and I know I spent plenty of my life making mistakes because I was in love !

M25Meltdown Thu 11-Apr-13 12:49:43

Hold on, Hold on.......

Is everyone missing the key information here.
They have been together two years, she only found out last year.
There is no transparency here, there is no honesty and quite frankly I do not believe for one minute that he has not accumulated more debt that he has stashed away.

Tell him the bank of KittyCam is closed, or better still tell him the Mumsnet Troika have refused to allow you to bank roll him. grin

LIZS Thu 11-Apr-13 13:01:29

So you are assuming that whoever is working at home that day can also look after baby/toddler ... sorry , think again . Allow at least 42 x 5 for childcare, more to allow for a 4 hour commute even assuming cm would do those hours. If work is so flexible why can't he get another job to work eves on his 2 days at home ?

Remember that when their dd was under 2 they had already got themselves into a mire and bought a house they couldn't afford without help and accrued serious debt. Then he didn't face up this to you until his parents brought it up a year into the relationship Are any alarm bells ringing yet ?

givemeaclue Thu 11-Apr-13 13:05:34

Do not have children with thism man. Huge mistake. Do not pay off his debts.

I work from home, my dcs are at school. I can't work with them here.

KittenCamile Thu 11-Apr-13 13:07:21

Wow I can't belive I have got upset over some people on tHe internet! Ok deep breath.

What will you all say on thead that gets started by the EXW saying 'evil step mum is taking my DD money'? Yes I agree that the matinance is too high but what can I do? If I spend my savings on DP going back to court to re negotiate I'm going to get a lot of abuse and DPs DD is going to miss out. Step mums are always the ememy!

With regards to child care, it is more thought out than it seems, I was rushing writing that post and its all a bit muddled. I appear to have missed out my Dsis, she is a sahm with her DCs at school. What we have planned is DP works from home 3 days (to do late drop offs and early pick ups, school hours) all 3 of those days DC would be at my Dsis during school hours. DP works in london 2 days with no drop offs or pick ups.

I would work 4 days a week. The 3 days DP works from home and a saturday (which he doesn't work) so DC would go to childminder on 1 day from 9.30 till 5.30 as I would work 10-5 on tHose days. I work 9- on the remainding 3 days.

DP would be doing a massive chunk of the child care and most of the pick ups and drop offs.

Why I feel I have to justify myself I don't know!

Yes the debt set up is strange and that is what I am posting about not whether my plan for any future DC lives up to everyones perfect life.

Still thank you for the useful and frank help

Alibabaandthe40nappies Thu 11-Apr-13 13:13:08

You cannot work from home and look after children at the same time It is absolutely not possible.

Your budget needs to allow for full-time childcare unless there are going to be days when one of you isn't working at all.

You really need to have a conversation with him DM along the lines of 'we have a nice life because I fund it, your son has no money with which to repay his debt to you unless he renegotiates his financial settlement with his ExW'.

AThingInYourLife Thu 11-Apr-13 13:26:57

"your son has no money with which to repay his debt to you unless he renegotiates his financial settlement with his ExW'."

Ali's way of putting this is smart.

It ties your partner's lack of solvency to his divorce settlement and leaves you the fuck out of it.

Which is exactly where you should stay until this financial basketcase is sorted.

He owes £30K, has no money to pay it off and is giving 30% of his income to his ex-wife.

That's hisproblem.

That he needs to sort without sponging off you.

Doesn't it bother you that he lied to you for a year about something so important?

Alibabaandthe40nappies Thu 11-Apr-13 13:27:39

x-posts. Pleased to see that the childcare is organised.

You feel you have to justify yourself because you know you are not being entirely sensible by entering into a relationship and parenthood with such an irresponsible man who kept such a big secret from you.

DontmindifIdo Thu 11-Apr-13 13:31:23

To me it sounds like the £30k was for exW, in that case, I would say this DM takes it up with the EXW, perhaps knocking it off the money she gives her each month..

Basically, your DP's finances are far to entangled with his parents, and far too out of control. It does sound like he has no control on them, even if he's not running up debts, he's paying maintenance even though he has his DD 50% of the time? Why? Can he explain that (not change it, but explain why he's agreed to that). He's allowed his DM to give maintenance to his ExW knowing that he and his ExW owe his mother £30k - again, you need to know why he borrowed the money and why he's happy for his mother to give that money to his exW.

But most of all, you need to get to the bottom of what MIL is doing in all this - it sounds like she is trying to force your DP to pay more maintenence to his exW - she is giving the money directly to ExW herself then asking for it back from your DP. she is being manipulative - she obviously thinks he should be paying more and is forcing your DP into doing that.

Your DP needs to grow up and sort out his finances, he seems rather passive and letting all the various woman in his life make arrrangements between themselves. A man who's this passive is generally like having another DC around, eventually, you'll snap. Think if you want to have DCs with him very carefully, you will be the one who has to always be 'the grown up' and sort things out. You will never be able to rely on a man like this.

Oh and others are right, you can't work from home and do childcare. It's fine for the first couple of months when they are newborns who just sleep and feed, but the only way to do it when they are toddlers is to stick on tv all day and do nothing, so basically you can only do it by being a crap parent who doesn't give their DC any stimulation or put any effort in. Really don't have DCs on the understanding you fully intend to be crap.

DontmindifIdo Thu 11-Apr-13 13:32:22

oh missed your comment about your dsis - ignore my last parragraph!

Snazzynewyear Thu 11-Apr-13 13:32:28

Is your sister happy to do the childcare without any pay for it? That's very nice of her if so, but it's also worth contingency planning for what you will do if, for instance, she decided to go back to work and you have to pay for 2/3 more days childcare.

Don't take the criticism too much to heart - it is your life. But some of the issues here are ringing alarm bells for people. I think the 'you need to walk away from this relationship' stuff is a bit strong, for instance! But it does sound like your whole financial set up would really benefit from being looked at and talked through in detail, so that you don't resent anything you're taking on further down the line.

Spudoolickay Thu 11-Apr-13 13:36:12

Alibaba is right - you really need to have that conversation with his DM (and it shouldn't be down to you, really, but if you're considering taking on this debt then you need to have it)

There is NO WAY that you can work from home and look after young children at the same time - believe me! Like you, I thought it was possible and it is absolutely not.

I think you need to do some scenario planning e.g. what if you fall out with DSis? what if you are made redundant? what if you are forced to change to a role or dept that is less flexible or further away? What about when childcare fees go up? You cannot assume you will always have the job you have now. If he loses his job, what happens about the maintenance for his daughter? (and I'm sorry but £1k per month for half a 4yo is just crazy). These things can hit you like a brick if and when they occur if you don't have contingency. It sounds like he will be a busy man what with his job, a 4yo and a newborn to juggle.

Nobody is saying not to have a child, but I just don't think you can have your cake and eat it i.e. have a child AND pay off his enormous debt.

Personally I think you'd be mad to take on this debt - you should consider first and foremost your own security and that of your DC, not his ex-wife or parents and a debt you didn't run up. Put the money into a house deposit instead. It sounds very much like you could end up in a huge mess in a couple of years having been taken for a massive ride, and that would be tragic as you sound like you have your head screwed on. Like others on here I have my doubts that you are getting even half the story and it sounds like a very odd set-up which I would stay well clear of if I were you.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Thu 11-Apr-13 13:39:10

Just to say - it is not the debt itself that is the huge issue here. DH ran up significant debt at one point in our relationship, for a variety of reasons which I won't go into. Suffice to say that it was nearly breaking point in our relationship.

However - we were already married and owned a house, so we were finically linked, and we were parents. I couldn't have just walked away even if I had wanted to.
The difference is that once he had plucked up the courage to tell me what had happened, he saw it as entirely his problem to fix. We have total transparency of all accounts. And, crucially, there is no-one involved but him. No family, no ex-wife, no children - just him.

If he had been in that position when we were talking about marriage and children then I would have walked away without hesitation.

The ripples are still felt in our relationship, but things are good between us and we are now on a financially secure footing - but it hasn't been me making all the sacrifices to achieve that.

LIZS Thu 11-Apr-13 13:40:46

If your dp wanted to propose the solution that it gets taken off the estate he could argue it under the 7 year gift rule ie if 7 years elapse between gift and death then it is exempt from being included for Inheritance Tax purposes. Although given that both parents are alive it isn't likely to prove a benefit if one inherits from the other first. Does he have siblings , if so could they have asked questions about whether it had been repaid ?

I do wonder if you are overegging the WFH/office flexibility and how much Maternity Pay you'd be entitled to. Remember company policies can change all the time.

expatinscotland Thu 11-Apr-13 13:43:39

You seem determined to procreate with this financial disaster on two legs. Go for it! The relationship boards are full of people who were not sensible and pay for it.

M25Meltdown Thu 11-Apr-13 13:49:32

As ever, EPIS has nailed it.

whois Thu 11-Apr-13 13:51:45

My god OP, this is a shit situation!

MIL is playing some sort of game with you all. DP is a weak and foolish man going by the debt and the way he is living now.

Do NOT pay £30k to MIL. Seriously. You would be a right idiot to do that.

howshouldibehave Thu 11-Apr-13 13:54:20

How much will you be paying your sister-you must take that into consideration. If you are proposing that she has your child for over 50% of the working week and isn't paid, you will fall out about it.

CabbageLeaves Thu 11-Apr-13 13:56:14

I am not suggesting you don't have a child with this man or can't independently finance this. What I am suggesting is that paying off his £30K debt is unwise but as expat says its your decision and will only be you that gets hurt by it so go ahead.

You would be better off being independent. It's taking on the financial responsibility AND the debt which is daft

larrygrylls Thu 11-Apr-13 13:58:44

"Oh kitten, I don't think anyone is suggesting you shouldn't start a family because of your DP's job or that has debts.

Its just that we are concerned about how the debts have arisen and that he has drip fed the details to you. We are jot emotionally involved, so its easier as an outsider to be cynical and see the pitfalls.

MN is the last place that would criticise or judge a woman planning on being the breadwinner and her DP doing the SAHP role."

Seriously? Have you actually read the comments on this thread? The general consensus is that both parties should be independently able to provide prior to procreating. This would disqualify maybe 70%+ of all parents in the UK.

The other thing that seems to be completely misunderstood (possibly from a little jealousy) is that family debt is completely different to bank or credit card debt. There is no contract and no mention of any interest to be paid. Often family debt is half gift anyway, with both parties being too embarrassed to mention that it is a gift, the receiver for (probably false) pride and the giver for not wanting the money refused. Personally, I think going to parents for money as an independent adult is morally weak, but nonetheless plenty do it and the money is real money.

OP, I do think you should be present at a family discussion. Your partner needs to explain to his parents where you are as a couple and potentially a family and explain that you both need to understand exactly where you stand financially before having a child. I hope they would be understanding of that.

Maybe he is a scrounger or a cocklodger (a term I find really objectionable and see no mention of cuntlodgers on MN, even though, in reality, they are far commoner). On the other hand, if he can renegotiate the debt away as part of his inheritance and genuinely wants to be a SAHP, what is the problem? I just don't see it.

whattodoo Thu 11-Apr-13 13:58:50

To be fair, OP's DP told her about the 30k a year ago, at the same point they were moving in together. So it sounds as though he knew he had to be up front to her about the debt, although not so keen to take responsibility for it. (Also bearing in mind the 25k inheritance he has spent).

I don't think this is necessarily a LTB situation, but I'd strongly urge you to agree a clear financial plan going forward, with you, DP, his DM and exW all being transparent about expectations. Do this before TTC.

You still haven't said if he's ever made any repayments to his mum. Surely you want to know the extent of his responsibility towards money? If he is reluctant to repay the loan to his parents, and has this history of spending cash like water, I know that I'd want to know the full picture before considering bailing him out.

DontmindifIdo Thu 11-Apr-13 13:59:20

OP - something you are missing in this - people aren't concerned that your DP doesn't have a good job, that you earn more so to have the lifestyle you want you have to pay more towards it than 50/50 - that's normal and perfectly acceptable. It's ok to have DCs with someone where childcare costs will make it tight, again, lots of people do that.

What's raising the red flags are:
1) he hid this quite frankly massive debt from you
2) you are expected to fund paying it back - not taking responsibilty for it himself
3) in general, he seems to be leaving sorting out finances to other woman in his life (his mum, his exW, his current partner)

It shouldnt be you having to talk to MIL - the fact that he's just said "ok" and assumed you'll sort it for him, if you dont want to pay then you'll have to go to his mum and talk to her to sort it for him is a sign you'll be the one having to keep sorting out his shit for the rest of your life.

Passive is how he looks. All this advice about what you should and should not say to MIL is wrong - you should say nothing to her, he should be the one sorting this out, in a way that doesn't involve you supporting his exW (by you supporting your DP, so he can give money to MIL, so she can give it to exW).

Another thought, is he enjoying people thinking he's doing well for himself and letting his family and ex thing that all the stuff you are paying for is actually down to him? If so, that needs to stop, if he wants to play at being a wealthy man, that's fine, but not with your money.

howshouldibehave Thu 11-Apr-13 14:00:53

I have to say, I agree with EPIS. I suspect you will be over in the Relationships forum next year-skint, unhappy and wondering why your life has turned to shit.

You seem to have spent hours working out how childcare for your unborn child will work but precisely 10 seconds thinking about the boy-child you are with who, along with his parents, see you as their future cash-cow. Is your biological clock ticking-why are you so desperate to procreate with him immediately?

MrsMangelFanciedPaulRobinson Thu 11-Apr-13 14:05:42

Definitely don't do lt! He's onto a good thing, and it sounds as though he's somehow made you feel emotionally obliged to pay it.

I would run a mile from someone that expected me to do this for them!

Spudoolickay Thu 11-Apr-13 14:07:45

It sounds from your timing like your CMs will be near to where you work? So you are planning on commuting 2 hours each way with the baby?

partylikeits1999 Thu 11-Apr-13 14:24:27

Ever heard of the saying Man plans, God Laughs (Well in your case Im changing it to woman plans and God Laughs and laughs until he falls over and breaks his leg)

You have no idea what you will feel like after you have had your baby. Even women that have 2 -3 dc forget this.
About the only thing you can plan for is that every thing you will plan to do after the baby is dependent on something/someone else.

Seriously it wont make 1 bit of difference all the brilliant plans you have of childcare,work, drop offs ,pick ups and everything. When you have a baby all those wonderful plans go out the window and frequently up the planners ass.

Virtually every women on here that has had a baby will agree with me that when they look back on their 1st pre -baby plans that they had on how their lives were not going to change, how they would go back to work, how their dp would share the night sleeps blah blah blah, think did I really really say that and cringe with embarrassment because they know the truth

You might not want to go back to work. You might resent having to work and be the main breadwinner and pay back a 30k debt that isn't even yours.
Then again you might not resent it. But you sure as hell will resent paying back 30k when your own dc have to go without nice things because your paying back a debt of 30k plus child care, paying all the bills, and well just life in general.
And if you really won't resent paying a 30k debt that isn't even yours then your a bloody saint and a far nicer person than 98 percent of the population and defiantly much nice than me and your dp should be kissing your feet every bloody night that he has a partner who is quite happy to pick up his bills

and to be fair to his mum if she can see that her son is going on holiday, enjoying nice things, thinking of having another child, even if it is you paying for it all then I can totally see why she wants her money back .
I would be feeling pretty shitty if i had lent someone that sort of money and they were still going on holiday enjoying their life while I' was waiting for my 30k back ( not that i would ever lend anyone that sort of money because i would have to kill them if i didn't get it back - i know my limitations of being nice )

shewhowines Thu 11-Apr-13 14:25:00

IMO you have to work together to clear the debt. Unfortunately it is a joint problem, that as a couple, you need to resolve.The loan needs to be paid back and it needs to come from the household income

however

I do think you need to cover your back in case of an eventual split. I would get advice on how to do this so that in the case of a split (hopefully won't happen but you need to cover your back) this £30k debt that you have helped to pay back is taken into account when settling financial matters.

Get it all recorded in someway, to document this officially.

iloveweetos Thu 11-Apr-13 14:26:09

I have debt and that debt is MINE to pay. I would never expect my fiance to pay this and your partner shouldn't either! This debt would be paid from any extra money that i have left over.
Regardless of whether his mum needs this money back or not, she still loaned her son that money. Cutbacks should be made by him, this is not your debt to pay.

CabbageLeaves Thu 11-Apr-13 14:28:40

I think that you equate not paying his debts with not having a child.

The two are not dependant on the other you know.

KittenCamile Thu 11-Apr-13 14:32:17

Sorry I missed the question on whether he paid any of the amount back, yes he did, he orginally paid £300 a month and that lasted 7 months until his marriage ended and he moved out.

He told me a year ago, before we moved in together, tbh I didn't really know what to say and it has been a bone of contention since as I just can't belive how much money it is.

He isn't passive so much as ashamed I think, he doesn't talk about it or bring it up with him mum because then he has to admit he isn't a 'man'.

I don't think he really knows what happend, it just added up. He had no debt before he met his EXW and has acrued non since.

On the childcare situation yes I will pay my sister, she has asked for £200 a month. Which is totally do able. Yes any part of my situation could change but are you all compleatly surcure in your futures? I can't predict I can only plan for my imediate future.

I think you are right though DP does need to speak to his mum and take responsiblity for it.

I really can't do much at the moment about the matinance. Maybe he can agree on the debt and then go from there. If he cuts his matinance that could mean EXW might have to move etc, I just can't face all the back lash

howshouldibehave Thu 11-Apr-13 14:34:11

*and to be fair to his mum if she can see that her son is going on holiday, enjoying nice things, thinking of having another child, even if it is you paying for it all then I can totally see why she wants her money back .
I would be feeling pretty shitty if i had lent someone that sort of money and they were still going on holiday enjoying their life while I' was waiting for my 30k back*

WSS

Though, presumably you still want to be going on the nice holidays...

Miggsie Thu 11-Apr-13 14:46:52

So his moteer is paying the ex and has lent money for the house of the ex-W - now the new girlfriend is meant to pay off the mum's debt and by extension the ex wife.
How many women are supporting each other in this scenario due to one man who seems unable to sort his finances?

Will his next girlfriend support your future child? Will there end up a chain of people propping up your partner?

If your hormones have gone off and you really want a child I'd consider looking for a better father than the one you happen to be with right now. Just becuase he could be the dad of your planned child does not mean he should be.

Perhaps you, his mum, and the ex wife should live together - then you can all support each other financially and cut out the middle man.

LIZS Thu 11-Apr-13 14:47:28

I don't think he really knows what happened, it just added up He needs to get to the bottom of it . Easy to blame the ex but as he is barely covering his expenditure with you subbing food and so on, I'd wonder, if he hadn't just got used to a certain lifestyle. Those bills would only rise if you brought a dc into the equation.

HotPanda Thu 11-Apr-13 14:52:07

I find this a bit hard, as at one point I was the one with the debt.
I did keep it a secret from my DH at first, and only let him know when we started talking about moving in together and how we would split finances. I wasn't hiding it, I was just too embarrassed and tbh, until we lived together he didn't need to know.

I am a bit confused about the "loan against the house" Either it was secured on the property, with a charge put on, or it wasn't - in which case it wasn't against the house.

It sounds like you have sat down and worked out your budgets.
I would go to MIL with HIS (not yours or joint) budget planner to show her that he earns X, pays out Y in travel and maintainence, and contributes Z to the household living expenses with you.
If, IF, there is anything left then it can be paid to her to start reducing the debt.

Please don't leave yourself short to pay for a debt that you didn't run up, and had been lent long before you were in the picture. If you do your figures as I suggest then YOU will be the ones paying for the treats and extras that you want, other than being the one who is having to sacrifice lifestyle choices to pay debt which you have no part of.

HullMum Thu 11-Apr-13 15:09:12

no, people think you shouldnt have a baby with this man, because you're likely to end up hideously in debt and because he has not been honest with you about what is a pretty obscene amount of money. If you had come on and said you made great money and met a lovely (honest)man who you want to be a sahd with not a penny to his name... nobody would flinch.

AThingInYourLife Thu 11-Apr-13 15:25:38

"He isn't passive so much as ashamed I think, he doesn't talk about it or bring it up with him mum because then he has to admit he isn't a 'man'."

If his shame was worth anything, he'd be ashamed that you were subsidising his ex wife's lifestyle and are thinking about subbing his mother too.

What's really unmanly is refusing to deal with this head on with his mother and instead hiding behind your earning power.

Tell him to get his finances sorted permanently with his mother and ex and then come back to you.

You should have no part of it.

Also, he needs to figure out what he spent £30K on.

What a pathetic no mark this guy is.

partylikeits1999 Thu 11-Apr-13 15:49:15

I would be worried that he has no idea what he managed to spend 30k on and if I'm not imagining it a further 25k inheritance

If he said to you Well honey I blew it on gambling and drugs in Las Vegas, or went travelling round the world for 2 -3 years then at least he has something to explain for where it all went

But just "Well i don't know what i spent it" on seem to be someone who is reckless or at the very least pretty stupid with money or rather other peoples money

I don't understand the maintenance to exW. Is it for her or is it child maintenance? 50/50 residency means noone pays maintenance to anyone. Even the CSA acknowledge this is correct now. Also if it is spousal maintenance the courts like a clean break so why wasn't she awarded a higher proportion of marital assets eg the house?

It all sounds bizarre, let alone the fact that his DM is paying the exW as well.

howshouldibehave Thu 11-Apr-13 15:59:04

I'm also a bit baffled by the ex. I'm not divorced but I can't imagine any I'd my divorced friends get anywhere near £1k a month in maintenance and they all have 2/3 kids! Why doesn't he just go to the CSA? If it's her that caned all the money-why is she living the life of Riley? Does she work?

KittenCamile Thu 11-Apr-13 15:59:21

Ok so I have decided to leave this thread. I have had some great advice about how to handle this and can now start to think about a plan, what DP needs to do ect.

I'm not going to pay for anything and he is going to discuse the cause of action with his mum but I will be included in the conversation as I do the house hold buget.

I feel confident that I can ask who's debt it is and what it was spent on thanks to this thread. And can then make an educated decision from there.

I'm leaving because talking about a man you don't know in such derogitry terms is just not helpful.

I love him with all my heart, he is helpful, curtious, a man who spends all his spear time with his DD because he want to not because he is expected to. I want a family with him because it will be a great family built on people who love each other and deadicate time to each other, not because he has a good bank balance.

FWIW he never lied to me about the debt, he never ever told me he was debt free and easy and as soon as we were moving in together he told me everything.

As for the matinance that will be something we have to look at down the line. His mum will probably still keep paying EXW so she can contiune to see her GD. I agree that DP is paying too much and he would love to pay less but its just not that easy.

I did want to say thank you for bareing with me on the spelling and grammer front, its sometimes very hard for me to articulate myself through my dyslexia.

Thank you for the advice and your time and effort

DontSHOUTTTTTT Thu 11-Apr-13 16:01:18

Good plan kitten. I think you sound very sensible. Hope it all works out. I was a bit confused at the LTB comments. I am in the communication and information is king camp.

Good luck

nkf Thu 11-Apr-13 16:03:29

You cannot make a proper decision about this because you don't actually know the facts. The details don't really add up and he is not forthcoming. Of course you can't hand over money on this basis. Of course you can't make any decisions about the future. Some people would say leave. At the very least, you should do nothing to help solve his problem. Keep focused on your own career and keep saving. His life sounds messy and will probably implode at some point. Have nothing to do with things you don't understand.

partylikeits1999 Thu 11-Apr-13 16:13:04

I would advise you to get your dp to do a credit check on himself so that you can clearly see if their are any other debts hanging around him.

Once you know that their aren't and you are sure that his only debt his to his mother you can start to plan to move forward

I wouldn't take his word that he has no further debts either. I would want to see it in black an white from Experian

For your own peace of mind you do really need to know if there is anything more than 30k of debt to his mum

With the maintenance personally I would do it now rather than later. Far easy to deal with someone who is going to go apeshit that her money is going down when you ( op) are not hormonal and pregnant.
Also if you do it when you have had a baby most likely the ex will be saying that daddy is reducing the money cos of new baby and that could start off a whole new lot of problems

nkf Thu 11-Apr-13 16:15:24

The maintenance he pays to his ex wife - is it really on to interfere in that? There seems to be a lot of women involved here. Ex wife, mother, OP - and, in the middle, this man who doesn't really seem to know what's going on.

Darkesteyes Thu 11-Apr-13 16:18:02

"you never hear about cuntlodgers on MN"

Sorry but i found this remark really offensive.
Especially as when the term gold digger is used it usually refers to a woman so it IS women who are stereotyped like this much more than men.
I dont hear the term cocklodger used in RL!

OP this man sounds irresponsible. I had an ex who was £9,000 in debt and secretive and evasive about it but we never lived together. He showed so many red flags and kept making remarks like "we will have to tighten our belts" and would have a go at me for having a cut and colour even though i budgeted for it and gave up smoking so i could afford it.
I saw that he would begrudge me having things that he couldnt. He had got into debt by getting out expensive mobile phone contracts and trying to impress a woman he knew before he met me.

You should certainly talk to his mum. If he objects to that in any way that should tell you all you need to know.

QueenStromba Thu 11-Apr-13 16:20:02

It does sound to me like this is mostly down to the ex wife. She was bankrupt before she met the DP. He meets her and being young and in love uses his inheritance to pay off her debts so they can start their life together with a clean financial slate. Problem is that all she's learned is that if she gets into a financial mess her DH will pull some money out of his arse to bail her out so she continues to live well above her means and racks up a lot of debts again. This time he has to get a loan from his mother to pay of the debts but that's ok because there's equity in the house and it's better than barely covering the interest payments each month. OP's DP then lays down the law about the spending, they start living within their means and have to tighten their belts even more to pay DP's DM back. Ex wife realises that between the benefits and maintenance she'd get as a single parent she'd have a far better quality of life if she LTB so the marriage breaks down.

Of course there are a lot of assumptions here but I'd be surprised if I'm miles off.

KittenCamile have you looked into moving closer to work? If you're both forking out for a season ticket for a two hour commute then it's probably cheaper to live close to work and pay the increased rent. It would also give your DP more opportunity to get a second job to pay his debts back with.

nkf Thu 11-Apr-13 16:21:45

Why should she talk to his mum? I think there is a lot of enabling (is that the right word?) being suggested here. It's his debt, his problem and that's it. If the OP is willing to take it on - and it sounds as if she is - she needs full disclosure and a proper plan of action. From and with him.

Darkesteyes Thu 11-Apr-13 16:23:02

More about my ex and the red flags. Its an old post from an old thread on another site.

1 My ex would time me in the shower only allowing me THREE MINUTES maximum (worried about his water meter)
2 i was round his late one night and when it came for time to take me home we found his sisters car which he had borrowed had been broken into,drivers window smashed glass everywhere both big shards and very small ones.I couldnt believe what he then said.
"well it will be a bit cold but i will brush the glass of the seats and drive you home" He actually expected me to risk sitting on broken glass rather than fork out for a taxihe insisted he had no money i only had 10 pounds to my name until payday. It wasnt until we went to the cashpoint i found out he had 700 pounds and it was only 4 days till his next payday.He begrudgingly lent me 30 pounds for a taxi after i phoned the cab company and got an exact quote from them and yes i paid him back.No way could we drive around in car with a smashed window.Police might have thinked my ex was the one who pinched it and it would have caused complications getting the crime number which you need for the insurance payout.Oh and it was November so it was cold
He refused to by a present for his brothers 40th not even a cheap bottle of plonk even though i offered to go halves yet he insisted on going to the party
He saw a duvet set in my catologue that he fancied so he asked me to order it and he would pay me back when it was delivered.
On the day it came i met him for dinner and took the duvet set with me and instinct told me to take the invoice as well.I gave him the set we went and sat down and i asked him for the money so i could pay off the invoice.Every time i asked he kept changing the subject and this went on for a good hour and a half.In the end i had to put the invoice in his lap.
The straw that broke the camels back in the end?He invited (insisted) that i pop round three days before Christmas and didnt tell me he had a really bad tummy bug and then he CRAP**D the bed I KID YOU NOT.He said he thought it was safe enough to try and fart HIS WORDS I went down with said bug on the Boxing Day.I was absolutely furious.I ended the relationship on New Years Eve.
Incidentally he would NEVER buy groceries at all unless he knew i was coming over 1 packet of pasta 1packet of pasta sauce 1 bottle of diet coke and garlic bread.One time i was too ill to go over and he had a right go at me cos he had already bought this stuff. He did deliveries for an Indian takeaway five nights a week and they gave him a free meal to take home every night.When i pointed out this was bad for his health he just said "Its free.
In the summertime i used to buy ice cream and leave it in his freezer.I gave up on this after a while as he would just let the electric run out and the ice cream would melt. One time i was getting out of the shower at his one NIGHT and the electric just went off and i nearly slipped.He would only get a tenner out of the cashpoint at a time but then would get the car out to take the five minute drive to the cashpoint every time he needed more
By the way this was a man in his early fifties.
There was also a time that he refused to go out and buy more toilet roll when he once ran out when i was over there and told me to take my Imodium so i woudnt need to go.(i suffer from IBS) I sincerly hope that no woman ever has children with my ex.It would be a pass port to poverty. I will NEVER tolerate a tightwad again

nkf Thu 11-Apr-13 16:24:11

Just caught up with the OP's plan of action. Good luck.

Darkesteyes Thu 11-Apr-13 16:24:29

i think she should talk to his mum in case hes lying. And i think there is a strong chance that he is.

Darkesteyes Thu 11-Apr-13 16:25:29

. His mum will probably still keep paying EXW so she can contiune to see her GD

Is there some blackmail going on here.

Cherriesarelovely Thu 11-Apr-13 16:39:17

Oh crikey Darkesteyes, he sounds dreadful! I had to laugh at a few of your anecdotes though! Many years ago I had a bf like that, at one point I had 3 jobs and he had none, he would always "forget his wallet" etc. To be fair though, ops Dp doesn't sound like this.

My lovely Dp was hugeli in debt when we met. She was very embarrassed about it but despite this was actually very organised. She was honest about it, was insistent that we kept our finances separate and got debt counselling. She entered into a repayment plan. Several years later it is all paid off. Because she was completely honest with me and comitted to sorting it out, plus she had a good job. It didn't put me off. Lots of people make mistakes and end up with debt, it's how they sort it out that counts.

Timetoask Thu 11-Apr-13 16:39:47

OP, if you are still reading this thread...
How wonderful that you are deeply in love with this man, but could you please wait three or four years before having a child?
If you are meant to stay together this time will not matter, you will know each other better, the finances will be better....

DontmindifIdo Thu 11-Apr-13 17:15:33

OP - if you do read this, can I add - if he has his DD 50% of the time, you could reassure your MIL that you will always ensure she can have access to DD when he has her. Most paternal grandmothers of divorced couples see their DGC when the Dad has access. If he has her 50% of the time, she's still going to see a lot of her DGD.

Xales Thu 11-Apr-13 18:39:16

Your P has not got himself into debt because you are paying all the extras to have a nice life not because he is any better with money that he was. He isn't in the slightest. You just have a different attitude towards money/debt than his ex and are what is propping him up.

He is happy to pay over the odds to contribute to his first child but will not be paying a penny towards his second.

How does he do 50/50 child care with his ex for his first child? How is that going to fit around his working from home and a second child? He isn't really going to be doing 50/50 child care at all with you is he. Your sister is. She is doing 3 days, child care will be doing another. That is 4/7 days dealt with not by him but you and your family with you paying 100% of it. All he has to do is a little driving.

If you are in the UK is your sister a registered child minder? I think she could get into serious trouble looking after a child for money, in her own home not being registered and not declaring it.

Toasttoppers Thu 11-Apr-13 18:52:17

I would love to see this mans pay slip and his exact outgoings.

I smell plenty of rats.

LessMissAbs Fri 12-Apr-13 10:09:07

If I were you, I would contact the ex to find out her version of the truth, and get a solicitor to do searches on the property to find out exactly who owns it, who is the mortgage owed to, and what other debts are secured on it. Searches won't cost much. I'd also do a credit check on him.

You are putting yourself under a horrendous burden OP, and your DP is far too passive and has far too many women around him involved in his finances. How many red flags do you want to see?

A lot of this just doesn't ring true.

If the debt was an advance on his inheritance, why is his mother asking for it to be repaid? Since to avoid Inheritance Tax, (albeit it may be under the threshold), it needs to have been made 7 years before the death of the testator?

Why is he paying maintenance when he has 50% residency of the child?

Why isn't the debt secured?

How much of the debt has already been paid off?

It almost sounds like a mafia family - you come into our family, you pay your dues!

blondieminx Fri 12-Apr-13 10:16:38

I agree with Hilda.

You would be crazy to have a child with this man. You can do so much better sweetheart. Please get out of this unhealthy relationship now!

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