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To not want this child to come on holidays with us

(831 Posts)
arabesque Wed 10-Apr-13 11:08:07

A group of girls I used to share a house with years ago have arranged to go on a reunion weekend to the West of Ireland in June. The plan was to book into a nice hotel, and spend the time relaxing, having nice meals and a few drinks and catching up and reminiscing. However, one of the group has now asked if its okay to bring her six year old daughter as her husband wants to play in a golf tournament that weekend. A child hanging around is going to completely change the tone of the holiday imho. I haven't spoken to all of the group yet but the two I have been in touch with are not too keen either.

AI (or we)BU to think of saying that we'd prefer if it was kept to adults only as it's the first time we've all been together in about ten years?

N0tinmylife Wed 10-Apr-13 11:09:32

YANBU. A 6 year old on a trip like that won't be fun for the child or the adults!

AngelWreakinHavoc Wed 10-Apr-13 11:09:39

Yanbu. I would not like that either.

If she cant get child care then she should not go.

abbyfromoz Wed 10-Apr-13 11:09:41

Nope. YANBU. Especially if you arranged the trip first before her DH arranged his golf trip.

KellyElly Wed 10-Apr-13 11:11:42

Wouldn't bother me but I'm a lone parent, as are a few of my friends and we tend to have kids in tow to many things. Surely you could still have adult time in the evening? Do you have children yourself? Not asking to be snippy, but if I didn't have DD I would probably feel the same as you.

LIZS Wed 10-Apr-13 11:11:51

yanbu - it is a girly weekend not a family do.

DiscoDonkey Wed 10-Apr-13 11:12:27

Yanbu, if the booking hasn't yet been made you could suggest changing the date for when her dh is able to look after the dd. I wouldn't pay money for a child free weekend only to have someone elses children there but then I'm mean.

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS Wed 10-Apr-13 11:12:51

Yanbu. It is bound to change the dynamic of the reunion.

HollyBerryBush Wed 10-Apr-13 11:13:29

No, I wouldn't want to go with a 6yo - not unless there is a crèche or babysitting service she can be banished to. grin

arabesque Wed 10-Apr-13 11:13:45

No Kelly, it's nothing to do with not having children. The majority of the group have children but they are being left at home with fathers or grandparents so we can meet up without having to take into consideration entertaining the children.

DiscoDonkey Wed 10-Apr-13 11:14:31

I think it's different kellyelly if everyones got kids in tow, but one child amongst a group of adults planning an adult break is different and will change the tone of the weekend.

doublecakeplease Wed 10-Apr-13 11:15:53

Yanbu - it'll change the weekend totally. I'd be totally honest and say 'I'd prefer plans to stay the same so that we can all let our hair down and catch up'

Booyhoo Wed 10-Apr-13 11:15:57

yanbu and i say that as a single parent.

it's not a family break it's an adult break and yes it absoloutely will restrict the activities and conversation. i think she has been unfair to ask tbh. common sense would tell her that what she should have done was tell you she cant go.

Levantine Wed 10-Apr-13 11:16:13

Oh no yanbu. Can you change the date? No one is going to want a six year old around in a grown ups weekend (I've got one myself!)

DiscoDonkey Wed 10-Apr-13 11:16:40

I also think people without children are entitled not to want to spend there leisure time with children if that's not what they had in mind.

I think it would be nice if everyone is willing to change the date so your friend can come along. Shame for her to miss out completely

BoundandRebound Wed 10-Apr-13 11:16:44

Say no adults only

somewhereaclockisticking Wed 10-Apr-13 11:17:30

Either that person doesn't go or the date needs to be changed or everyone takes their kids which will be moreexpensive and not quite the holiday you had planned. Having kids does make it difficult to all get together at the same time but if it can be managed then go for it because it won't happen very often!! Plus how many gold days does her OH have compared to her getting away??

arabesque Wed 10-Apr-13 11:17:58

Unfortunately we can't change the date as it coincides with one of the group being back home in Ireland for a wedding. That is why we got the idea of the reunion and why it has to be in June.

somewhereaclockisticking Wed 10-Apr-13 11:18:10

*golf

iseenodust Wed 10-Apr-13 11:18:32

YANBU. It is for her and her DH to work out who is going to have an adult weekend and who is going to be the parent.

jumpingjackhash Wed 10-Apr-13 11:18:39

YANBU - you're right it will totally change the dynamic of the trip and I know I wouldn't want a 6yo to join what I was expecting to be an adult-only weekend away.

It doesn't sound like you've booked yet though, can you change the dates so your friend has childcare sorted?

Hulababy Wed 10-Apr-13 11:20:00

I am normally very open to holidays and weekends away with children involved.

but this is very different. It is an adult weeknd, no one else is taking their children.

The 6y will be bored on her own and will need entertaining. It will change the whole weekend away.

Is the weekend already booked? Can the date be altered to one where her DH can look after their daughter?

TBH if it was my DH I'd be telling him that he couldn't play golf unless he was the one who sorted out the childcare as my weekend away was already in the diary in advance.

jumpingjackhash Wed 10-Apr-13 11:20:23

Ah, x-post. If her DH's golf trip has come up since you planned this then she needs to push back and remind him she got in there first with the dates.

If she has no other childcare then I think she needs to meet up with you on another occasion.

Teeb Wed 10-Apr-13 11:20:39

Yanbu. I would tell her it's between her and her DH to sort out the childcare for the weekend, hopefully following the original plan before he discovered the need for a golf trip.

kinkyfuckery Wed 10-Apr-13 11:20:44

YANBU (single parent here too)

It's an adult's weekend, not a family holiday. Sad if the woman can't get childcare, she'll have to either get her husband to stick to his commitments (assuming the weekend was arranged before his golf trip) or miss out on this occasion.

bigTillyMint Wed 10-Apr-13 11:22:27

YANBU! The date was set which suited you all - her DH should forego his golf or find someone to look after her.

Who wants a DC around (no matter how lovely they are) on a girly weekend?

Mrsrobertduvall Wed 10-Apr-13 11:22:35

God no, it would be awful with a child in tow. Completely change the event.
Can't believe the reason is because her dh wants to play in a tournament. Well I can, but even my golf mad dh would not do this.

DiscoDonkey Wed 10-Apr-13 11:23:50

Ah well in that case your going to have to say no. Good luck with that!

Angelico Wed 10-Apr-13 11:24:22

YANBU. Friend's DH needs to sort out where their DD is going to go - maybe to GPs?

YANBU - there is a world of difference between an adults-trip and a families-trip. This has been planned and booked as being just for the adults, and everyone else has made their plans / called in favours accordingly. If she can't do that then she will have to miss out.

TBH though, I think its probably her husband getting her to ask, and she expects/wants to be told "No that doesn't work" so that she can go back to him and say "No, sunshine, you don't get your golf trip, 'cos I got this planned ages back. Tough shit. Have fun with dd while I catch up with the girls."

arabesque Wed 10-Apr-13 11:26:01

Yes, our weekend was arranged at Christmas and her husband only decided he wanted to play in this tournament a couple of weeks ago. I think he's being a selfish tosser, to be honest, and am really annoyed with him.

lashingsofbingeinghere Wed 10-Apr-13 11:26:06

Your friend should be asking her husband if he can take their DD to the golf tournament. No difference as far as I can see.

expatinscotland Wed 10-Apr-13 11:27:01

YANBU.

wonderingsoul Wed 10-Apr-13 11:28:19

ynbu. im a lone parent to.

its not a child hoilday i would suggest kindly that it wouldnt be child friendly and you asked the others and they agree. if that means shwe has to miss out well thats sad but thats life.

Floggingmolly Wed 10-Apr-13 11:28:26

Out of the question. If she can't arrange childcare she can't go, just like everyone else.

LadyBeagleEyes Wed 10-Apr-13 11:28:44

Good point lashing.
And no YANBU, and I'm speaking as a single parent though ds is 17 now.

Levantine Wed 10-Apr-13 11:30:07

Her DH can't do his golf trip.

It would completely alter the weekend. The six year old could caddy for Daddy.

Branleuse Wed 10-Apr-13 11:34:45

i think there are many sensitive ways of saying this without any falling outs

Rainbowinthesky Wed 10-Apr-13 11:35:18

Yanbu

arabesque Wed 10-Apr-13 11:35:58

Can you suggest some Branleuse? I was going to email her and say would it be possible to get someone else to babysit as it would probably be a very boring weekend for her, and hope my friend takes the hint.

Booyhoo Wed 10-Apr-13 11:36:38

it's really fucking selfish of him to expect a whole group of other people to either change their pre-arranged holiday plans or to babysit his child (which of course you all wouldn't be as her mum would be there but you wouldn't be child-free as planned) so he can golf.

i know of a few men who have done things like this out of badness tbh. he sounds like one of them.

BornInACrossFireHurricane Wed 10-Apr-13 11:37:02

YANBU. It really isn't fair on anyone else (especially the ones who have children imo!)

Teeb Wed 10-Apr-13 11:37:35

I think I would suggest that she shouldn't be the one who has to give up her planned for adult weekend, and that she should leave the childcare worries with her DH, then move on the discussion about how you are all looking forward to the catch up and can't wait to see each other.

Booyhoo Wed 10-Apr-13 11:39:14

i would email and ask if it would be possible for HER DH to get someone else to babysit as your friend has actually sorted her childcare (her dh). it's her dh that now needs childcare so he needs to sort it or miss the golf trip. in her shoes i would be laughing in his face at the idea that i would give up my trip for his after he agreed to it.

AmberLeaf Wed 10-Apr-13 11:40:21

YANBU

I assume her DH knew about the planned [adults only] trip?

If so, he is indeed being a selfish tosser.

MissLurkalot Wed 10-Apr-13 11:40:39

No no no... She is seriously taking the piss.
This is an adults only reunion, no kids. That's the whole bloody point of it.
Put your foot down, and re iterate that.
She is taking the piss! I'm sure she's a lovely girl, but having her, or any child there will completely change the weekend.
No no no!
(I think she's a bit odd to suggest it to be honest! Jeez, how often to us Mum's get the chance to get away like this. Her hubby can have his turn, ffs, but NOT on the same bloody weekend! Unbelieveable!)

Maggie111 Wed 10-Apr-13 11:43:39

I wouldn't email her that - don't hint. Just say that the group has decided it'll be too difficult to have her daughter along and you're so sorry if that causes her a bother.

MissLurkalot Wed 10-Apr-13 11:46:57

Well said Maggie111...

bigTillyMint Wed 10-Apr-13 11:47:06

Absolutely - tell her to man-up and tell her DH that this adults only weekend was planned months ago so if he wants to play golf, he will have to sort childcare. It is NOT her job!

JenaiMorris Wed 10-Apr-13 11:47:37

Is it was the case that there really wasn't an alternative (and even single parents can sometimes call on family or indeed the child's father) then it would be awful to exclude her. It would change the dynamic yes but it doesn't have to absolutely ruin the holiday.

However this woman's husband (making yet another assumption - that this isn't some great golfing career pinnacle that could never, ever be repeated) is an arse.

I think I'd be a bit torn actually - do any of you know him? If he really is that dreadful this might be the only nice thing she's managed to do for her for a long time. In that case it would be a real shame for her friends to exclude her when she needs them most.

Lottashakingoinon Wed 10-Apr-13 11:48:35

I think you are being the very opposite of unreasonable and on the face of it her DH is being a twat of the first order.

And although I can obviously appreciate that you don't want to upset your friend, I would counsel against being so gentle with her that the message is unclear and she ends up schlepping DD along (POOR DD!!) anyway. I think Teeb has got it about right but I just think that somewhere in there you (and the others) should say that it really is NOT going to work to have a little one there. In other words lay it on the line: don't 'suggest'...that's the problem with suggestions...uptake is optional!

ENormaSnob Wed 10-Apr-13 11:50:04

Yanbu at all

Lottashakingoinon Wed 10-Apr-13 11:50:42

Oh and please let us know how it pans arabesque [unbelievably and unjustifiably nosey old cow emoticon]

Crinkle77 Wed 10-Apr-13 11:51:03

I feel a bit sorry for her. Her husband sounds like an arse and he has put her in an awkward position. She needs to put her foot down and say to him look I organised this trip first so if you want to go on your golf tournament you should arrange child care.

Lottashakingoinon Wed 10-Apr-13 11:53:16

You are absolutely right Crinkle but I just have the horrid feeling (probably totally out of line here, but hey, it's Weds, I'm entitled grin) that her DH thinks he HAS arranged childcare, ie said that she has to go on the girly weekend!

pigletmania Wed 10-Apr-13 12:49:00

Yanbu she should not come if sh cannot find childcare. I can't imagine it's going to be fun fo the child ether

UtterflyButterfly Wed 10-Apr-13 12:52:11

YANBU. Aside from anything else, what fun would it be for the 6 year old (unless she's very precocious!) to spend a weekend with a group of adults?

manicinsomniac Brazil Wed 10-Apr-13 13:15:25

Another YANBU from a lone parent

BUT - if your group of friends are anything like mine it's quite rare to get a whole group of old housemates free on the same weekend. So, if it was a case of the child comes or the woman doesn't, I'd take friend-with-child over no friend.

Her husband should have the child though!

wigglesrock Germany Wed 10-Apr-13 13:27:40

YANBU and to be honest if I was one of the others in the group and the dd was coming I'd pull out. I have 3 children and wouldn't be spending money on a weekend away that had changed from only adults to adults and a 6 year old. I'd rather spend the money going away with my own family.

LifeSavedbyLego Wed 10-Apr-13 13:30:08

This is her husbands problem surely?

He needs to
A)find a babysitter
B) cancel the golf or
C) take his daughter with him

It isn't her problem and it sure as hell isn't your problem.

quoteunquote Wed 10-Apr-13 13:30:24

Just say No,

She and her husband need to sort their child care out and not expect to inflict their child on someone else leisure time.

It totally changes the tone having children along,

I love doing things with children, which is good as I spend the majority of my life in the company of children,

But when on those very rare occasions, something is arranged that does not include children, I admit I do resent it when someone puts their need to join in with child/children in tow over everyone else's need to have an adult break.

A couple of years ago, a bunch of us booked the youth hostel at Tintagel for an extra long weekend, for a very rare catch up on old times, take long walks, generally kick back relax, one of our dear friends, kept asking if she could bring her toddler, and young children, her husband wanted to take part in an activity, we kept saying no,

you only have to look at the Tintagel youth hostel to realise why it would be an extremely bad idea, ten feet from the front door there is a hundred foot straight drop into the sea, we all explained why it would be a very bad idea,

She turned up anyway children in tow, she had a terrible time, everyone else trying to accommodate her had a terrible time, children had a terrible time as everything was not geared to them, because it is not a suitable place for small children.

Everyone who has children has to suck it up at some point, that what you do, you don't decide you are entitled to inflict your children on other people adult leisure time.

Just tell her she will have much more fun and relax more without a child in tow, and to find some child care.

arabesque Wed 10-Apr-13 13:36:57

Two of the others from the group have been in touch and both are absolutely adamant that NO WAY is she bringing her daughter. One of them, who lives near this girl. reckons the husband and golf thing could be a bit of an exageration as anytime she's arranged to meet her for a catch up the child is brought along as well.
Basically, I think she's using the golf tournament excuse to manipulate us into letting her bring her little girl so, on that basis, I actually don't feel as bad about saying 'no'.
I'm going to compose a draft email and let the others have a look and add their tuppence halfpenny worth, and then send it.

LadyBeagleEyes Wed 10-Apr-13 13:42:46

let us know the outcome, won't you OP.
<nosey>

Lottashakingoinon Wed 10-Apr-13 13:43:55

reckons the husband and golf thing could be a bit of an exaggeration as anytime she's arranged to meet her for a catch up the child is brought along as well. Basically, I think she's using the golf tournament excuse to manipulate us into letting her bring her little girl

In which case I retract some of my snarky comments about her DH!

Good luck OP!

arabesque Wed 10-Apr-13 13:46:02

I will LadyBeagle.

doublecakeplease Wed 10-Apr-13 13:47:55

I'm glad that your friends are on board too - no way should she be bringing her! I'd be tempted to ring rather than email to avoid any misunderstanding.

Quote - i am astounded at your friend - poor kids and poor people who spent the holiday with them!

There really is no compromise here - the child my well be lovely but its not a children's holiday!

Good luck! It does sound like she wants to bring her dd than like she has to.

doublecakeplease Wed 10-Apr-13 13:52:24

Posted too soon. There are lots of women like this. My 10 yo niece has always been taken along to girly days with her mum. Talking to her is like talking to a 25 year old - she's all about diets, men being crap etc. Far too grown up imo. Parents and kids need time away from each other. Hope you can manage to sort it and have your lovely adult break

Gerrof Wed 10-Apr-13 13:55:04

I agree with the others - and glad that your other friends are in agreement.

I would change the whole weekend. It's not selfish to want a break away from the children. Especially other people's children fgs.

Gerrof Wed 10-Apr-13 13:55:17

IT would change the whole weekend.

TheSecondComing Wed 10-Apr-13 13:56:22

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TimeIsACurrency Wed 10-Apr-13 14:04:14

It's not fair for them to expect you all to fork out for a weekend away, then spend it with someone else's 6 year old. You're right, you'll all be restricted.

Maybe just play up that it's a big deal to you all to have some girly catch up time without your DP's and kids, and it's not an appropriate time or place for bringing her child along.

Hope she takes it ok OP!

hairtearing Wed 10-Apr-13 14:19:49

I was getting for thinking YABU,

but no YANBU, won't be fun for the child or the adults.

DisorganisednotDysfunctional Wed 10-Apr-13 14:42:55

No, YANBU. Your friend is being very cheeky. She needs to sort out childcare with her DH, or not come at all.

JenaiMorris Wed 10-Apr-13 14:49:09

Someone asked upthread what fun it would be for a 6yo going away with adults - what do people think families with only one child do? confused

It does sounds as if this friend is taking the piss, going from the subsequent post from the OP but to not even consider allowing a friend to come along because she has to bring her child is just plain horrible.

JenaiMorris Wed 10-Apr-13 14:54:01

God I'm not saying you're horrible OP, sorry blush

It's just that a few post the posts here seemed a bit knee-jerk.

Children can be a complete pita, but if someone really, really couldn't find cover and particularly if they rarely got out, I'd cut them some slack.

TheSecondComing Wed 10-Apr-13 15:08:21

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

shesariver Wed 10-Apr-13 15:15:36

I wouldnt expect to take a child along on an adults only weekend - of course it changes the dynamic! She will just have to miss out.

LadyBeagleEyes Wed 10-Apr-13 15:17:53

I wouldn't have gone if I couldn't get childcare.
Just one of these things.

dietcokeandwine Wed 10-Apr-13 15:18:43

Someone asked upthread what fun it would be for a 6yo going away with adults - what do people think families with only one child do?

Umm, they do activities that are child- and family-friendly, but with just the one child, in which case child has great fun, I presume! This comment misses the point tbh. The point is, this is NOT a child and family-friendly activity. It has been designed as a girly get together, no children, adult chill-out time only, end of. Therefore it would be insanely boring for the child and incredibly irritating for everyone else to have her tagging along. Every adult is entitled to a bit of child-free time!

OP, you are so so so SO not being unreasonable, and either your friend or her DH (or possibly a bit of both) are being completely UNreasonable.

Agree with others saying not to drop gentle hints, some people are impervious to hints and I suspect she is probably one of them! I would word an email somewhere along the lines of 'oh, that's such a pain for you that your DH now wants to do the golf weekend, but no unfortunately it really isn't going to be possible for you to bring DD along. The thing is the whole point of the weekend is to have a reunion without partners and children in tow, so it wouldn't be fair to anyone, least of all DD, to have DD there. Could DH perhaps arrange some childcare for her or take her along to his golf weekend if he's adamant that he wants to go? We so hope you'll be able to join us as we're all so looking forward to catching up. But of course we will understand if you end up having to stay home with DD instead'.

I hope you all manage to get away and have a wonderful time - child free smile

quoteunquote Wed 10-Apr-13 15:20:06

doublecake

yep, so were we,

I think the problem for her was it was a gathering of friends that had been very close at one time, which she was a small part of, a group who use to spend a lot of seriously fun leisure time together, climbing, mountains mashing surfing, festivals ,

even though the point of the get away was messing about on cliffs, in sea, long walks, drinking, loud music, she was very determined to come, then didn't leave when it clearly was not the place for children.

we later found out her DH wanted to take part in a gaming weekend,

One of the group now live in NZ, another is overseas, and most of us are scattered about, with very busy lives, I doubt we will ever have the chance again.

I run a lot of family camps, group activities, I have spend nearly all of the last twenty summer (even last year)in a field by the sea, doing coastal things with a massive pack of children,

it is really annoying when people put you in the position of being the bad guy on the very rare occasion you have grabbed the chance of being child free, and decided to use that time doing something that is different, over the last twenty two years of parenting there have been years on end when we haven't had a break from children, so when we do get those chances we relish every moment.

I think it is a very mean thing to do, to even ask.

Hulababy Wed 10-Apr-13 15:21:47

Someone asked upthread what fun it would be for a 6yo going away with adults - what do people think families with only one child do?

I only have one child. We have holidays and weekends away where we build in activities and things that interest us all, some for DD, some for us, some for us all.

This weekend the OP describes is different. It is an adult weekend away, where everyone else is leaving their child behind and it is geared up for adult activities, not based on the likes and interests of a 6yo.

The two scenarios are not the same at all.

Fillyjonk75 Wed 10-Apr-13 15:22:54

Me too. I was the first one to have kids in my group of friends and I'd never have put them in that position.

rainbow2000 Wed 10-Apr-13 15:28:55

What would you do if she still brings her dd,i would just make arrangements as you were going to do if the child isnt there.Let her entertain her child for the weekend.

If she realises this time you mean it the next time you organise something she might just have the sense to leave her dd at home.
Dont change any plans if your friend cant do the activities thatsher lookout.

Cherriesarelovely Wed 10-Apr-13 15:32:02

It's very U of your friend to ask imo. I have spent several years as a single parent and would never have asked this. My dd is really quiet, sensible and grown up for a 10 year old but I still wouldn't take her ona weekend catch up where she would be the only child. I would find it irritating, she would too and all the adults would have to curtail their conversations all the time. Surely the whole point is a bit of child free time. Don't be too subtle in your email. I agree that some people will ignore a subtle message when they want to.

arabesque Wed 10-Apr-13 15:39:32

Okay the email we've agreed on is as follows:

Hi xxx

Just been talking to the others and we're really sorry that you're having trouble with childcare arrangements. Normally we would be more than happy for (dd) to come along. However, as all the other children have been told that it is a 'mums only' weekend there could be some little noses out of joint if they realise that (dd) was part of the weekend. And, obviously, if we bring the other children along we will end up spending most of the weekend entertaining them and get no chance to enjoy catching up and letting our hair down. I hope you understand.

We really really don't want you not to be there, though. It could be years before we all get together again. We're all hoping against hope that (dh) will reconsider re the tournament so you can come along for our first complete get together in ten years. It just won't be the same without you.

Obviously, if you can't you can't, but pleeese have a word with him and try and get him to reconsider. Tell him he will be making seven ladies very happy.

DontmindifIdo Wed 10-Apr-13 15:40:51

dietcoke's e-mail is perfect.

It's clear.

DontmindifIdo Wed 10-Apr-13 15:42:01

oh x post, that's great.

Lottashakingoinon Wed 10-Apr-13 15:45:13

That is a really nice email arabesque but if she is somewhat selectively obtuse she may just take this:

We really really don't want you not to be there, though

as meaning if there is no other option then we would sooner you brought DD along rather than not come. That though could be the killer word! If it were me I would start that para with We're all hoping against hope...

But good luck...I hope she gets to come along, just her!!

arabesque Wed 10-Apr-13 15:46:47

Good point Lotta. I'll reword that.

YANBU.

Your email isn't bad but I dint think it's clear enough that her dd is not welcome. Personally I'd therefore change the last sentence of the first paragraph from 'i hope you understand' to'i hope you understand why this means we cannot include dd on this occasion'

Imho she is being very cheeky and unreasonable to all and I agree with the previous poster that I'd rather spend a weekend with my husband and my own children than have someone elses child, however lovely, gatecrash an adult weekend away.

And what Lotta said.

pigsDOfly Wed 10-Apr-13 15:53:45

What does your friend think is going to happen in the evenings if her 6yo is there. Is she going to stay with the child on her own while you all go out and enjoy yourselves? Are you all going to be expected to stay in and look after her child with her and therefore curtail your evenings' fun? So, no extreme sports, no swearing, no boozing, no girl talk. Blah. Doesn't sound like my idea of fun at all.

No, no, no, no, no. YA most definitely NBU. Your friend however............

arabesque Wed 10-Apr-13 15:54:16

Okay so:

Hi xxx

Just been talking to the others and we're really sorry that you're having trouble with childcare arrangements. Normally we would be more than happy for (dd) to come along. However, as all the other children have been told that it is a 'mums only' weekend there could be some little noses out of joint if they realise that (dd) was part of the weekend. And, obviously, if we bring the other children along we will end up spending most of the weekend entertaining them and get no chance to enjoy catching up and letting our hair down. I hope you understand why it wouldn't be practical to include dd on this specific weekend and aren't too disappointed.

We're all hoping against hope that, under these circumstances, (dh) will reconsider re the tournament so you can come along for our first complete get together in ten years. It just won't be the same without you.

Obviously, if you can't you can't, but pleeese have a word with him and try and get him to reconsider. Tell him he will be making seven ladies very happy.

Lottashakingoinon Wed 10-Apr-13 15:54:21

Yes and what Dino said! Taking the two together, I don't think there can be any doubt, and the real warmth of the rest of it will soften it up...I really don't think she would have any justification in taking offence!

Alliwantisaroomsomewhere Wed 10-Apr-13 15:54:59

YANBU at all.

Lottashakingoinon Wed 10-Apr-13 15:56:18

Just one teeeeensy leeeeetle further amendmentette....would you ever consider changing practical to possible

You are clearly much nicer than me!

arabesque Wed 10-Apr-13 15:58:04

Actually, I wondered about using practical and if it really fitted. Okay, will change to possible. Thanks.

pigsDOfly Wed 10-Apr-13 16:00:05

I also think your email needs to be a bit more direct. More along the lines of 'What a shame you won't be able to come on this occasion if DH insists on play golf.' Perhaps, as someone else said, a phone call would be better. Emails are all very well, but can't convey, the way your voice can, your sense of horror at the idea of having a child at your adult only weekend.

MissLurkalot Wed 10-Apr-13 16:04:11

Practical to possible. And that's it.
It's worded really well. And it's a lovely email.
Send it.

Spot on email with the possible /practical substitution.

CaptainSweatPants Wed 10-Apr-13 16:17:13

Yanbu

You'll all want a lie in too

Not woken up by a 6 yr old clamouring for food, tv etc

MummytoKatie Wed 10-Apr-13 16:44:52

I think the email is perfect. Did you write it? Do you work in a job that involves breaking bad news to people? If not, you have missed your vocation!

LIZS Wed 10-Apr-13 16:49:18

Normally we would be more than happy for (dd) to come along. However, as all the other children have been told that it is a 'mums only' weekend there could be some little noses out of joint if they realise that (dd) was part of the weekend.

I wouldn't bring the other children into it tbh. However as it has been planned so that we can spend time together and catch up without the distraction of children or partners ...

arabesque Wed 10-Apr-13 17:12:00

Thanks MummytoKatie smile.

LIZS I've actually already sent it off already. Fingers crossed she gets the message and there won't be any bad feelings about it.

MonaLotte Wed 10-Apr-13 17:21:04

Just read this. Yanbu at all! Hope she comes back with a suitable reply. i.e. her dd isn't going!

Great email, hope it all works out ok.

JenaiMorris Wed 10-Apr-13 19:22:49

TSC totally agree it's the husband's problem, but him being a wanker is something his wife has to live with and her friends should help her with (although my approach would possibly be enabling him, so I'll shut up!).

The email shaped up nicely, OP. Hope it does the trick smile

Casmama Wed 10-Apr-13 19:30:02

I really hope your friend isn't a mumsnetter! Hope it goes ok.

SugarPasteGreyhound Wed 10-Apr-13 19:48:06

Yanbu! Hope your friend comes round on this, although if she is used to taking her did along everywhere, be prepared for the possibility that she might turn up with her in tow anyway...

Lottashakingoinon Wed 10-Apr-13 19:55:38

Thing is Jenai, you make an excellent point (which you then start to talk yourself out of!) but OP said somewhere up thread that the friend has a bit of form for bringing DD along and that it might be she is hiding behind her husband's 'golf' to provide the excuse to bring DD along to this holiday. Much as my default setting is that all men are wankers (apart from Mr Going On of course grin ) it's just possible that golfing husband is getting a bit of an unfair hiding!

Any news arabesque

SatsukiKusukabe Wed 10-Apr-13 20:17:56

yanbu

LadyBeagleEyes Wed 10-Apr-13 20:30:03

I think if she does come along with daughter in tow, then she should be left to entertain her on her own and the adults should just go along with all the grown up things they were going to do anyway.

Patchouli Wed 10-Apr-13 21:01:48

ooo no reply yet?

doublecakeplease Thu 11-Apr-13 20:36:04

Has she replied op??

ladymariner Thu 11-Apr-13 21:57:55

YANBU. Having a child on an adults weekend would totally change the dynamic. Hope she sees sense x

shallweshop Thu 11-Apr-13 22:00:24

YANBU - its clearly adults only. Child will be bored shitless and it will seriously curtail your weekend. Just No.

maddening Thu 11-Apr-13 22:08:51

Also have any of the others with dc got room for one more if her dh is a.dick and won't reconsider? So another with a similar aged dc and v capable babysitter?

formicaqueen Thu 11-Apr-13 22:27:58

you either make it a kid thing or an adult thing. why can't she have some friends/relatives care for her DD.

formicaqueen Thu 11-Apr-13 22:28:24

could one of your hubbies have an extra child to care for?

formicaqueen Thu 11-Apr-13 22:33:51

can her DH take his child on a golfing weekend?

Floggingmolly Thu 11-Apr-13 22:37:52

Would you bring a little girl on a hen weekend? Because that's pretty much what it is, isn't it? Without the imminent wedding, obviously.
People opt out of things all the time when their childcare arrangements break down, she'll have to try harder or just accept they she can't go.

I want to know what she said too! Pretty shamelessly marking my place grin

FWIW OP I think your email was spot-on.

I think email was great. Good point to mention other kids maybe feeling out of joint.

IroningBoredDaily Fri 12-Apr-13 00:20:43

Perfectly worded email. I hope she takes it well.

schoolgovernor Fri 12-Apr-13 00:27:34

I must be a horrible person. I read that email and thought it was far too woolly. Stuff childcare arrangements for her and her DH... leave other children out of it...

Dear Daft Friend

I've spoke to the others and we all agree that the whole point of this trip is for us to get together for some adult time without partners or children. We want to do adult things, have adult conversation and generally let our hair down a bit. So I'm sure you can understand why we don't think it would be fair on either DD or the rest of us if you brought her along.

We really hope that you will still be able to come because it is always so nice to see you. However, if you won't be able to make it this time we'll understand.

schoolgovernor Fri 12-Apr-13 00:28:32

In fact, I'd have probably replied by return saying "You are joking aren't you?..."

BOF Fri 12-Apr-13 00:33:09

I like your style, schoolgoverner.

rainbow2000 Fri 12-Apr-13 07:51:53

I said upthread that if she does still bring her,leave her to mind her own dd.Do the things you had planned.Leave her to her own devices and she might just learn that its not acceptable to bring your kids everywhere.

Marking place

ArabellaBeaumaris Fri 12-Apr-13 07:57:49

What happened OP?

topsyandturvy Fri 12-Apr-13 08:38:58

yanbu and really the issue isnt between you and the other friend, but between her and her husband - he is the one who is actually preventing her from going OR she forgot to speak to him about keeping the date free

Snazzynewyear Fri 12-Apr-13 08:55:48

Marking place.

LemonBreeland Fri 12-Apr-13 09:12:08

I am woth schoolgovernor I thimk her wording is much clearer.

Lottashakingoinon Fri 12-Apr-13 09:14:57

Yes I LOVE your style School but I think it's just as well that Arabesque sent her own version!!

AllDirections Fri 12-Apr-13 09:19:37

YANBU and that's from another lone parent. I manage to go away for an adult's only weekend once or twice a year. I'm a 24/7 parent and I have to save for each trip and arrange childcare. It requires a lot of effort and money but I need those breaks so much that if somebody even suggested bringing along their child I wouldn't be happy (and it definitely wouldn't happen).

and even single parents can sometimes call on family or indeed the child's father Bit of an assumption there hmm

Trills Fri 12-Apr-13 09:23:11

I also think people without children are entitled not to want to spend there leisure time with children if that's not what they had in mind.

Someone said this further up.

I think that people with children are also entitled not to want to spend their leisure time with children if that's not what they had in mind!

QOD Fri 12-Apr-13 09:28:02

I hope she took it ok. I hate that sort of scenario

AllDirections Fri 12-Apr-13 09:38:14

I think that people with children are also entitled not to want to spend their leisure time with children if that's not what they had in mind!

^ This ^

Blu Fri 12-Apr-13 09:55:17

The OP is not a lone parent. Her friend's child has a father. However he and his DW have managed to make his desire to go on a golf w/ the problem for a group of friends who HAVE Found childcare or whose DH'd have accepted parental responsibility that w/ and many MNers have turned it into a single parent v couples issue.

If it is ok to take a child on an adult w/ let her Dad take her to the golf. He knew this w/e was booked , it is his responsibility to find childcare.

OP, don't let this man's selfishness become your problem. Why should women and mothers always compromise?

I would've v sympathetic to accommodating the chills are needs of a single parent, but not those of a male chauvinist golfer!

Blu Fri 12-Apr-13 10:03:45

Sorry, missed a big chunk of update reading on my phone. Hope your e mail works, OP, but beyond your individual situation there is a huge principle lurking behind this situation , and I am cringing at the wheedling in begging her to get her H to 'make 7 ladies happy'. Doesn't that just demonstrate the power balance which has been allowed to develop around this kind of thing.

I would be spelling that out to your mate. She has no business asking you all to accommodate her DH's needs. So weedy.

rainbow2000 Fri 12-Apr-13 13:34:29

Update op i need the next installment

Trills Fri 12-Apr-13 13:43:12

Demanding much?

rainbow2000 Fri 12-Apr-13 13:51:37

Who me no just looking for an update,nothing wroong wiht that.

Grammaticus Fri 12-Apr-13 13:53:17

Maybe the six year old could go to the golf tournament, it would be no more inappropriate. Oh wait, people with testicles don't actually have any fundamental responsibility for their children, do they. And their leisure activities are so much more important than womens'. angry

AllDirections Fri 12-Apr-13 19:09:45

Grammaticus grin

I'm with Rainbow in that it's always good to know the outcome

YWNBU by saying no.

I think she has a cheek to have asked in the first place tbh!

Inncogneetow Fri 12-Apr-13 19:25:03

I wonder how friend responded.

Roseformeplease England Fri 12-Apr-13 19:26:01

News?

SugarPasteGreyhound Fri 12-Apr-13 19:26:09

Intrigued to know if friend has replied!

schoolgovernor Fri 12-Apr-13 20:20:24

I have a reply drafted in preparation if Daft Friend comes back and still hasn't got the message. grin

Pickles101 Fri 12-Apr-13 20:32:12

Very nosey and hoping for update soon

Dubjackeen Mexico Fri 12-Apr-13 20:42:25

I wonder if the husband's golf tournament is just a story,and the friend just wants to bring the child along. I think that was implied up thread, by the OP.
OP, YANBU, it would just change the whole thing, having a child along, and unfair, IMO, when it was not part of the plan. Hope it works out.

school give us your draft while we're waiting!

AllDirections Fri 12-Apr-13 21:15:00

Go on school keep us entertained grin

schoolgovernor Fri 12-Apr-13 23:24:49

Dear Daft Friend

As you know, we have been looking forward to a trip where we can spend some time together away from our husbands and children and would love you to come with us. We expect the event will involve some over-indulging in alcohol, bad language, maybe even the odd iffy ciggie, and definitely some sharing of Too Much Information. This is not an environment that you would wish to share with your child, and to be fair, it's not an environment that we wish to share with your child.

So, just let us know if you will be able to attend alone or whether you will stay at home this time.

Loads of love, from your good friends...

xxxxx

pigsDOfly Fri 12-Apr-13 23:45:28

Perfect!

onedev Sat 13-Apr-13 00:01:23

Just seen this thread - love to know how the friend has responded & definitely think Schoolgovernor's responses were perfect grin

ComeYoniWithMe Sat 13-Apr-13 01:35:53

C'mon we need to know!

CheerfulYank Sat 13-Apr-13 02:29:08

I want to know too!

I had a girls' weekend planned in January and it coincided with a huuuge ice-fishing trip DH was planning to go on. I said if he could find a sitter that was fine, but I'd made my plans first and they'd been on the calendar for months. He couldn't find a sitter so he didn't go fishing. <shrug>

onedev Sat 13-Apr-13 06:59:19

Exactly how it should be Cheerful grin

Lottashakingoinon Sat 13-Apr-13 08:13:42

I am 100% on the OP's side but I have a horrid feeling that her silence does not bode well and it's possible that either

a) Her friend is on MN too, recognised herself and the shit has really hit the fan

or b) Her friend blithely said 'Oh I am sure it will all be FINE' and DD is coming and that such has been the strength of support on here that OP doesn't like to come back and disappoint us!

There is a third way wink... friend showed email to golfing husband, he capitulated (indeed AGREED that it was fair that he stay at home) and OP and her friends are too busy planning to worry about updating here. I really hope it's that!

Geordieminx Sat 13-Apr-13 08:24:57

Marking my place

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sat 13-Apr-13 08:39:19

Hope you get your break OP!

Perhaps it has all kicked off and OP is waiting for it to be resolved before updating.

Icedcakeandflower Sat 13-Apr-13 13:21:27

brew awaiting update smile

AllDirections Sat 13-Apr-13 17:33:39

Even if the OP's friend is a mumsnetter and recognises herself on here the OP hasn't said anything horrible about her at all, just described the situation as it is. In fact I think it shows how considerate the OP is because she wanted to check that she wasn't being unreasonable before dealing with the situation.

JaxTellerIsAllMine Sat 13-Apr-13 17:42:50

Just read whole thread - update needed to satisfy my curiosity.

lizzieannejames Sat 13-Apr-13 17:44:33

Can I ask what YANBU means? Lol

Trills Sat 13-Apr-13 17:53:06

Mumsnet Acronyms

This section is called AIBU - "Am I Being Unreasonable?" It is for asking questions where the answer might be YABU (you are being unreasonable) or YANBU (you are not being unreasonable).

Occasionally a V will the added to say that someone is being Very unreasonable smile

Roseformeplease England Sat 13-Apr-13 17:54:35

Need input....

NinaHeart Sat 13-Apr-13 19:56:05

Another place marker here. And another vote for School governor's straight talking.

I do so hope that friend has not managed to wheedle her way round the objections and is bringing DD.

VikingLady Sat 13-Apr-13 21:26:57

Expiring with curiosity!

doublecakeplease Sat 13-Apr-13 21:28:45

Me too - gutted op hasn't come back!

pigsDOfly Sat 13-Apr-13 22:09:56

Please OP come back and put us all out of our misery.

LeoTheLateBloomer Sun 14-Apr-13 20:49:03

OP OP OP!!! Come back! I've de-lurked and done a thread search to find out what the response was. Please tell us what she said!

<no life of own>

Mumof3men Mon 15-Apr-13 07:54:03

Bumping and hoping op comes back

xigris Mon 15-Apr-13 09:43:09

I want to know! Just read the whole thread and I'm with all of you on the OP's NBU. I went on a hen weekend once and someone brought their 18 month old baby. It had been agreed on and it was a low-key do as 2 of us were preg (one being the hen) but it certainly put a different dynamic on it. There is no way on God's earth I'd take my lot on a girly weekend! Actually I really want to go on a girly weekend right now! OP, if your friend can't go can I take her place? Please?! grin

JaxTellerIsAllMine Mon 15-Apr-13 11:11:13

come back and let us know, please. pretty please. grin

Manyofhorror3 Mon 15-Apr-13 11:16:58

What happened???!!

When was the weekend supposed to be?!

arabesque Mon 15-Apr-13 11:40:50

Sorry, haven't been on here in a few days and didn't realise people were asking for an update.

I sent the email off and got a reply on Friday evening to the effect that 'dd had been really excited about going on a weekend away with mum's friends. She's used to being around adults a lot so wouldn't be bored. (Point about other kids' noses being out of joint was completely ignored'. I, being a bit of a wimp when it comes to confrontation, was worrying about how to respond. My friend just said 'oh for fucks sake' picked up the phone, rang her and basically said 'no kids. The same rule applies to everyone. It would be a shame to fall out over this, but we want an adult only weekend where everyone can let their hair down, talk freely and not worry about a child in our midst. That's the deal'.

The friend now appears to be sulking as we haven't heard from her. sad

MadamGazelleIsMyMum Mon 15-Apr-13 11:45:50

OP, first of all, well done to your other friend for being direct and clear. There's no way I'd manage that in the same situation, but it really is better to be direct. Your other friend is being silly.

LadyBeagleEyes Mon 15-Apr-13 11:48:41

Good for your friend, you tried your best being nice and it didn't work.
Let her sulk.

SayMama Mon 15-Apr-13 11:49:29

Aw OP, you promised an update...!

Floggingmolly Mon 15-Apr-13 11:49:54

So it wasn't just about lack of childcare, then?. It was about mini-me been taken along like a sort of mascot? hmm
Probably best if she continues to sulk and backs out completely.

I had a feeling she wouldn't take it lying down!

Well it's her loss! Ignore the sulks, honestly.

If you offer an olive branch she'll use it as an excuse to campaign for her daughter's attendance!

BOF Mon 15-Apr-13 12:20:12

I like your friend grin

Lottashakingoinon Mon 15-Apr-13 12:21:06

If she is sulking and you are all good mates apart from this I suppose there would be no harm in a follow up email/call from one of you stressing that you really want her to come but that it definitely is a child free zone which applies across the board and maybe hint at a mums and kids party in the non specific future

Or is this strategy too risky?

lunar1 Mon 15-Apr-13 12:22:20

Well done to your friend, thank you for updating op!

Lottashakingoinon Mon 15-Apr-13 12:22:41

X post with Walter Yes I fear you may be right (last sentence)

Ignore me OP everyone at home does!

LadyBeagleEyes Mon 15-Apr-13 12:31:59

So she's already told her daughter she's going, which means one very disappointed little girl.sad
How is she going to explain to her that's she's not welcome?
I think your friend is hoping you'll all feel sorry for the child now, and have to back down.

Lotta I only say because my db has done this countless times!

Her dd's disappointment is her fault and her responsibility! Don't let her make you feel guilty!

arabesque Mon 15-Apr-13 12:36:17

I could kill her, to be honest. Whatever happens now she'll have introduced a negative note to the weekend. If she doesn't come we'll all feel a bit guilty; if she comes without DD we'll probably be made to feel a bit guilty; and if she persists in trying to have DD included I suspect we'll all get so fed up we'll just call the whole thing off.

Viviennemary Mon 15-Apr-13 12:38:15

No. I'd say she couldn't come. It will be a totally different type of holiday if she does. I think it's a bit cheeky of somebody even asking because it puts you all in a difficult position. If she can't get childcare then she doesn't come.

Viviennemary Mon 15-Apr-13 12:39:15

Sorry cross post. You shouldn't be the guilty one.

MidniteScribbler Mon 15-Apr-13 12:47:21

Boot her off. I'll come instead. I like the sound of your friend!

Lottashakingoinon Mon 15-Apr-13 12:53:11

Okay, time for some tough love!!!

Whatever happens now she'll have introduced a negative note to the weekend

Only if you let it!!!

If she doesn't come we'll all feel a bit guilty

Why? It will have been her own fault choice

if she comes without DD we'll probably be made to feel a bit guilty

Why??? You've all left children at home. If she tries this on just counter it with 'oh how wonderful it is to be child free we MUST do this more often tra la la we're not listening!!!!'

Seriously, I'm not meaning to make light of this but you have no call to feel guilty...she's the one! She had no business even suggesting it to her daughter without getting your agreement first.

You know you may be onto something when you say you may just cancel altogether. I don't know how feasible this is in terms of lost deposits etc or being able to find a different date in the not too distant future, but it could be that starting from scratch may be the answer and there can be NO 'confusing' the ground rules next time!

TooExtraImmatureCheddar Mon 15-Apr-13 12:58:00

Grr, who does that to their daughter? She is being totally U. I also like your other friend's style!

DiscoDonkey Mon 15-Apr-13 13:01:21

You have no reason to feel bad, you will all be spending money on a rare weekend away together so you have every right to set the tone. If she insisted on taking her dd I would pull out tbh, just wouldn't be my idea of a girls weekend and wouldn't want to spend my money that way.

NinaHeart Mon 15-Apr-13 13:02:32

Hurrah for straight talking friend. I had a horrible feeling "mumfriend" was going to ignore the real message of your nice email and make excuses.
And everything that Lotta said. You really have nothnig at all to feel guilty about. "Mumfriend" is clearly past master of manipulation.
Hope you have a wonderful trip!

Nobody knows what happens behind closed doors and you can't know for sure why she wanted to bring her dd. YANBU at all, but please have a bit of compassion in case there's something you don't know? She has form for not leaving her dd with her dh and that raises red flags for me because of my own home life.

DontmindifIdo Mon 15-Apr-13 13:08:00

Don't feel bad, she should for being difficult. If she comes along and sulks, then pull her up on it, she choses to come on an adult only weekend she can't get stroppy that her DD isn't there, she's had it spelt out to her. If she decides not to go, then don't feel bad either, that will be her choice. She is trying to force her choices on you.

Trills Mon 15-Apr-13 13:09:34

Your forthright friend is doing the right thing.

Your friend who wants to bring a child to an adults-only weekend is bing a manipulative tosser.

rainbow2000 Mon 15-Apr-13 13:09:43

Im glad your straighttalking friend rang as the ball is in her court now.I wouldnt feel guilty she shouldnt have told her dd she was going in the first place.

True nobody knows what happens behind closed doors but some mothers just dont go anywhere without their kids.Its not always sinister.

sherbetpips Mon 15-Apr-13 13:10:42

Good on you! We had a similar problem recently where we had planned a beauty day - lots of pampering and champers, then SIL number 1 says that her and SIL 2 want the DD's to come (SIL 2 had not been consulted). Ended up cancelling and not doing it rather than causing a family problem which was a shame as it was originally a plan for me and my mums birthday, which my sister was coming along to as she was back from overseas, which she then blabbed to SIL 1, so we then had to ask SIL 2 and then suddenly it was daughters too!
Particularly annoying as under 16's are not allowed in spa's on there own or to have any treatments so it would have completely disrupted the day. I personally would take the approach that I would love to come however I have to look after DC....... if they say oh well see you next time at least I know I was invited!

DioneTheDiabolist Mon 15-Apr-13 13:11:34

Please don't feel bad or let this ruin your weekend OP. Your friend is being selfish and manipulative. She has been told No. How she deals with that is up to her. It's up to you and your real friends to have a wonderful, enjoyable, adult weekend.

vintageclock Mon 15-Apr-13 14:26:02

Do not give in to your friend on this. A group of us were put in a similar situation a couple of years ago and eventually agreed, reluctantly, that a friend could bring her DD on a girls weekend away. It was a total disaster. The child was bored and asking when were we going to be finished lunch (we had planned to sit outside for the afternoon sipping wine and chatting), pestering us to go to the tacky funfair on the other side of the beach (which we had planned to avoid like the plague) and generally making a nuisance of herself. A couple of people couldn't hide their annoyance which made the mum a bit huffy. Another friend was making decisions re pandering to the child's presence without consulting the rest of us: 'We'll cancel our table in the dining room and go for pizza at about 7. Of COURSE we don't mind. Poor Maisie doesn't want to sit through 3 courses in a boring hotel', resulting in the rest of us being furious and shooting daggers looks at her while she beamed generously at Maisie's mum.
The whole weekend descended into bitching behind closed doors, snippy remarks and an atmosphere you could cut with a knife. I couldn't wait to get home and was raging at having spent so much money on a crappy break.

Seriously, it will end in tears - and they won't be the little girl's.

Squitten Mon 15-Apr-13 14:29:45

No, no, no, OP!

There's nothing to feel negatively about. Your friend is out of line trying to rearrange the terms of the trip and your mate has done exactly the right thing by telling her straight. She was evidently determined to ignore subtlety!

The choice is now hers as to whether she wants to come or not. You have nothing to feel bad about!

HullMum Mon 15-Apr-13 14:33:02

I wouldn't be too hard on her, you don't know what the situation is at home. if her dh really is a knob she may feel she can't leave DD with him, for some reason. But if she has to stay home, she has to stay home and she shouldn't make things awkward for you guys

DioneTheDiabolist Mon 15-Apr-13 14:43:00

Hullmum, no one is suggesting this mother get a hard time. Just that the OP and her friends not feel guilty for saying "No".

vintageclock Mon 15-Apr-13 14:43:06

If she doesn't feel she can leave her DD with her DH then there is a fundamental problem that needs sorting out - dragging her daughter around with her everywhere is really just sticking plaster stuff, its not dealing with the issue (if there is one).

I have/am having similar problems with a friend.
We parent in completely different ways which is fine in our own space but when we are in a group with other families and this friend does things totally differently it really winds me up.

Basically whatever her kids want they get regardless of what the rest of the group are doing.
It has recently come to a head where I have said to her I want to continue the friendship as adults but no longer in groups with the kids.

I have now been accused of leaving her kids out. Even th

.. Even though I haven't organised anything or am planning on it.

A while ago I had cheap theme park tickets and was taking my niece for her b day and taking my other niece and my older two.

My cousin was also coming.

I hadn't told any of them where we were going until they arrived at the gates so none knew therefore couldn't have told friends daughter.

Friend basically invited her dd to come and I said no as its for my niece is a family thing & we already had 6 kids between two adults.

I was then accused of ''making her dd cry all weekend'

The only way she could've known about the trip was if her mum told her!

It's horrible as I end up feeling guilty when I didn't do anything & just trying to be realistic..

So op try not to feel guilty if her dd is feeling put out as her mum shouldn't have told her without asking you all first

LIZS Mon 15-Apr-13 15:40:49

Good for your forthright friend ! Nightmare woman - she sounds manipulative and trying to make herself superior by parading perfect child. Whatever her circumstances it isn't fair of her to foist her idea of a good weekend with dd in tow on everyone else.

SayMama Mon 15-Apr-13 15:50:30

Oh sorry x-posted there before! Well done you and well done your friend! Try not to let it spoil a much anticipated trip!

CheerfulYank Mon 15-Apr-13 17:02:23

Yay for lay-it-on-the-line friend!

TalkativeJim Mon 15-Apr-13 17:12:36

Well if she tries to make you feel guilty with any pointed comments, then the obvious reply is 'Yes, I can't believe your DH put you - and us - in such an awkward position.'
smile

expatinscotland Mon 15-Apr-13 17:24:52

Do NOT feel guilty. Good on straight-talking friend with backbone.

NO backing down.

HullMum Mon 15-Apr-13 17:34:54

oh absolutely vintage, but that doesn't mean it always happens

rainbow2000 Mon 15-Apr-13 17:39:03

TalkativeJim thats a good idea,put everything back on her dp see what she says then.

Id ring her and say no kids,its not a snub on her dd but its adult weekend away and so isnt suitable.

bigTillyMint Mon 15-Apr-13 17:41:10

Well done to your blunt friend!

Your friend who wants to bring her DD comes across as quite needy/self-obsessed and PFBy. If this is so, you are doing her a favour as she needs to take a look at herself.

However, it may be that her DH is a complete arse and she doesn't feel happy to leave the DD with him, in which case maybe the blunt talking will help her to tell you all that this is the case.

expatinscotland Mon 15-Apr-13 17:41:49

She was planning to leave the DD at home with her father, then the knobhed decided he wanted to go play golf.

So YY, 'I can't believe your DH put you and us in this situation. It's unfortunate.'

Her knobbo DH is her problem. The decent thing to do would be to back out if she can't tell her husband where to go with his golf weekend, not expect everyone else to accommodate her.

Schnarkle Mon 15-Apr-13 17:53:10

There probably is no golf weekend, she just want's to parade her daughter. Her daughter isn't like all those other annnoying children you know grin

Although further upthread, expat, OP says that this friend has form for insisting on bringing her DD along to everything and there is much suspicion that the DH golf tournament excuse may be not entirely true and the DH less knobby than he appears (the fact that friend had apparently told her DD she would be coming on the weekend away before asking the other participants adds some support there, IMO).

Still appropriate though to assume in communication with her that the story she told is true and that it is indeed the DH's fault.

MrsMelons Mon 15-Apr-13 18:42:03

Don't feel guilty at all - her husband is the one that should feel guilty!

I don't think she should have even asked you TBH. I have young DCs and I love to have my time away/out with my friends, I would never ask to take them along and would not wish to entertain someone elses children when I have arranged a babysitter or left them with their dad.

My SIL used to want to let her DD join in everything with adults and TBh it ruined quite a few of our evenings, especially when we'd made the effort to put our DCs to bed or got a sitter. We had a meal with some friends at hers one night and her DD decided she wanted to stay up till 1130/12 (she was 5) and wanted to lay on the sofa with her duvet so SIL made us sit on metal dining chairs (garden ones really) all evening - everyone was itching to leave!

In the end we said something and she now leaves DD behind or puts her to bed and has actually admitted how much more fun she has in just adult company!|

Inncogneetow Tue 16-Apr-13 08:13:27

Well done forthright friend.
Don't feel guilty: just look forward to a fab weekend and be grateful that due to your efforts (and your mate) it's going to be child-free.

JaxTellerIsAllMine Tue 16-Apr-13 09:19:36

Enjoy your weekend get together! Dont feel guilty, you have done nothing wrong. I like Forthright friend! grin

Hmmkay Tue 16-Apr-13 09:39:57

Her response is so bloody selfish to try and make you all feel bad! angry Your email was friendly and to the point and you really couldn't havent been any nicer about it. I don't know if I would be bothered about being friends with someone who was willing to try and guilt trip all her friends like that! She doesn't sound like a very nice person!

You should all go and enjoy your weekend - dont let her make you feel guilty about it whether she is there or not as none of you have done anything wrong. She's the one who should be feeling guilty for putting you all on the spot like that!

Farewelltoarms Tue 16-Apr-13 09:51:38

Sorry no 6-year-old gets really excited about spending a weekend with her mum's friends unless it's been sold to her as a really exciting event. I'm with those that suspect that the friend wants to bring the daughter and, while I'm not doubting that the golf thing is taking place, she never said you can't go to the DH or that the childcare was his responsibility.
I miss my dcs like crazy when I'm away from them but I still have a brilliant time and really welcome the opportunity to miss them (they are so much more appealing in their absence than in the middle of the Easter holidays).

arabesque Tue 16-Apr-13 11:24:29

I had a phone call last night from the mum, giving out about forthright friend and the way she'd spoken to her. I took a deep breath and said 'to be honest, she really had no choice. We did try to explain nicely in the email why you couldn't bring dd'.

She then started on again about dd being really well behaved and used to being around adults. So I said that I had no doubt her dd was a lovely child but no six year old was going to be happy sitting in a fancy restaurant for several hours while the adults ordered another bottle of wine; or hanging around the hotel lounge while we drank coffee and gossiped or wandering around the village looking at antique shops and could she honestly say there would be no point during the weekend at which we would end up having to do something to amuse her dd. Also, how would she feel about her 6 year old listening in on very adult conversations or hearing bad language?
She said 'well, it wouldn't have to be like that?' I asked what she meant and she just said 'oh nothing'. Then she said that she 'wasn't happy' about the whole thing and would 'have to think about it'.

I rang my forthright friend and we have agreed that we are booking the hotel and a restaurant table today for ourselves and the other four girlswho are coming. We will send her the details so she can book herself in or not as she wants. We are worried, from what she said, that she might get on to other members of the group and start wheedling them to agree to go to a child friendly hotel or bucket and spade type location instead of the really nice country house style hotel we'd decided on so we want to pre empt that.

Forthright friend is also going to email the others telling them about the conversation she had with the mum and making it clear that she has been told, in no uncertain terms, that her daughter is not welcome.

TBH, I just hope she decides not to come at this stage. She's being a total pain.

Good for you.

She doesn't like to give up does she!

Your friend is being a selfish pain in the arse and to be honest I think if she continues like this I'd be not far off telling her she was no longer welcome since even if she comes without her dd now she's going to make it really awkward for everyone.

You have the right idea in booking anyway and giving the others a heads up. If anyone else chooses to go away with her and her dd then that's their call - you and forthright friend will i'm sure have a great time and i'm pretty sure the others will come with you to!

Floggingmolly Tue 16-Apr-13 11:33:00

At this point; she needs to be told that neither she nor her daughter are welcome. She's gone beyond any normal behaviour now, and you still have the worry that she still hasn't accepted it, and there's more nonsense yet to come.
Get forthright friend on the phone again, before she ruins the holiday for all of you.

LadyBeagleEyes Tue 16-Apr-13 11:34:26

I'm totally gripped by this story.
Are the others on board with you and forthright friend, or is there any chance they could be talked round by the child's mother?

Gerrof Tue 16-Apr-13 11:35:37

If you have sent her the details what will stop her from booking herself and her daughter in and just turning up anyway? She seems thick skinned enough.

Squitten Tue 16-Apr-13 11:35:38

Absolutely right OP. Just book it all up as a done job and include your friend in the email with the query that you weren't sure whether she was coming and so she needs to book herself in.

Shereally is persistent over this! Take no crap OP!

I do think there is a real risk of her booking in with her dd regardless though. So I'd be reluctant to send her any details if I were you and just tell her you've booked and if she wants to come too (without her dd) to get in touch so you can add her to the booking. For now thoughyou're presuming she won't be there.

Gerrof Tue 16-Apr-13 11:38:16

She is so going to book it anyway and turn up with dd in tow.

ENormaSnob Tue 16-Apr-13 11:38:39

I'd be telling her not to bother at all tbh.

Tough shit if she sees her arse. She's a selfish cow.

Squitten Tue 16-Apr-13 11:39:49

Oooh yes - she could well book her kid in anyway! Don't tell her anything!!

NinaHeart Tue 16-Apr-13 11:42:01

What kind of friend is she that she is happy to ride roughshod over the (beautifully expressed) views of the group, or try to pick them off one by one?
I'm not sure I would even want such a selfish and manipulative perosn to be my friend at all.

NinaHeart Tue 16-Apr-13 11:44:24

Oh and what I meant to add is that I wouldn't even speak to her about how it won't be suitable for her DD, simply reiterate the "We have decided as a group to be child-free". The suitability isn't the real issue, the group decision that she is trying to overturn is.

Loulybelle Tue 16-Apr-13 11:45:12

Shame you couldnt book one of those adult only hotels.

But if i was going to a girls weekend i wouldnt take DD, althought shes really well behaved and loves shopping, we do tend to get a little "Adult".

I think your friend was suggesting that you have "PG" weekend instead of "18+" one.

DontmindifIdo Tue 16-Apr-13 11:49:03

No, if she wants to book her and her DD in, knowing now what sort of weekend it will be, let her, but make sure you tell her in no uncertain terms that you will not alter your plans, your language or your conversation to be child friendly - so if she wants to go off with DD and join you for drinks in the bar once she's asleep, that's fine, but she was told this wasn't a child holiday. What she'll probably do is not come along.

Mind you, you could try asking her if there's a reason she's not happy to leave her DD with her DH - does she think he's not safe or not able to look after her? That you'd all be understanding if she's trying to tell you she's got problems at home. (if she's just being "my child is the centre of the world, can't you see that?" realising that it looks like she's in an abusive relationship might knock some sense in her, if she's not and really has problems, it might be away to get her to open up so you can help)

Binkybix Tue 16-Apr-13 11:49:05

I'm delurking. Gripped by this thread too!

Good on you OP. I just cannot imagine anyone I know with children behaving like your friend. A bit cheeky to ask in the first place, and ringing you up about it is outrageous.

Did you ask if DH could change his plans during your phone call at all? (Although beginning to agree that the golf weekend might be a bit of a red herring too)

Lottashakingoinon Tue 16-Apr-13 11:52:04

Well much as I take on board what other posters who are much nicer than me have said about not knowing what goes on behind closed doors and whether or not she's getting a hard time from her husband, the fact is thateven though you might want to help her through them, a girly weekend with her daughter in tow is neither the time or the place.

That aside, I had a feeling all along that someone who was foggy sighted enough to think it was okay to even ask to bring her daughter along to an event like this was going to be sufficiently thick skinned to ignore nicely framed emails about it not being a good idea.

Her reaction has proved that you don't need to feel guilty. Just go ahead and do what you want to do (can see the good sense of not giving her the leeway of booking for herself), carry on being friendly and including her in future events if that's what you want, but she must take responsibility for her own and her DD's disappointment. If she does that then you will have done her a favour.

Have a great time: swearing, eating, drinking, lounging around....you sound like my kinda gang! Could lose the antiquing though grin

bootsycollins Tue 16-Apr-13 11:53:13

Bloody hell she's got more front than Blackpool.

Bearbehind Tue 16-Apr-13 11:54:02

arabeseque what ever you do, don't send this woman the booking details and tell her to make her own arrangements. She obviously thinks she is in the right and IMO that is just giving her the perfect opportunity to book her and her daughter to come.

If I were you I'd make your arrrangements as planned and email 'the entitled one' to say you've made your plans and if she wants to come you can add her to the booking.

Lottashakingoinon Tue 16-Apr-13 11:55:23

The suitability isn't the real issue, the group decision that she is trying to overturn is.

Absofuckinglutely

StanleyLambchop Tue 16-Apr-13 11:58:29

I am another one who thinks she will book her & her DD if you let her have the details. I would just e-mail and say that you are about to book for the whole group, and does she want to be included (without DD) or not? Then hope that once you have booked the hotel fills up really quickly so that she cannot book herself & DD at a later date. Does she know the details of where you are planning to book? If so, do you think a last minute change of venue is in order (or am I just being really sneaky and mean?

Floggingmolly Tue 16-Apr-13 12:02:11

No you're not, Stanley, that's what I'd do.

Can you just book a hotel that has a "no under 12s" rule?

Masai Tue 16-Apr-13 12:19:26

Oh God the tension....

Will she or won't she?

And I cant be the only one feeling like this!

Manyofhorror3 Tue 16-Apr-13 12:26:42

What a pain in the arse! If you had to guess what the problem was, what would you say? Is it that she's v precious over DD, or has a bad husband, or is a control freak, or what? Am dying to know more!

Hmmkay Tue 16-Apr-13 12:42:54

God she is so persistent, what a pain in the arse! I think you have done the right thing booking anyway. If you do decide to tell her your plans, I think you just have to make it absolutely clear now that this is a child-free break for you all. I wouldn't even bother trying to be nice with polite reasons why her dd can't go now. You've tried that and she obviously has skin as thick as a rhino's hide! Make sure you stand your ground and maybe forthright friend could have another word with her to make sure she doesn't go booking for her and her dd anyway.

Blu Tue 16-Apr-13 12:52:46

Stick to your united front and stuck record.

"We have planned a grown-ups weekend, we have all arranged childcare on that basis, we are looking forward to a weekend free of our usual need to remember that we are mothers make concessions to a child's needs"

Shift your 'concern' about the boredom and welfare of her child to your own needs and decisions as adults.

Don't adopt this problem as your own, it's hers and you have no need to feel guilty or worry. Why let her uin your lovely weekend like that?

Loulybelle Tue 16-Apr-13 12:56:42

Any Warner Hotels in the area OP?

motherinferior Tue 16-Apr-13 12:59:47

Give her the wrong hotel details <evil>

arabesque Tue 16-Apr-13 13:02:33

Okay, the hotel is booked and self entitled friend has been emailed to let her know that our rooms have been booked as has the restaurant table and to contact me if she wants me to also book a room for her.

Changing the hotel wasn't really an option as it was chosen on the grounds of:

a. Fairness of travel distance for everyone
b. Its award winning restaurant
c. Its gorgeous location
d. Fact that one of group has been there and says its the nicest hotel she's ever ever been in.

If we'd changed it we'd have been letting her 'downgrade' the weekend, and put us to inconvenience, even if she decides not to come.

We're hoping to make it very very clear to her that there will be no question of her trying to persuade someone, on a bilateral basis. to agree to going somewhere more child friendly, and then trying to use that as leverage to change other people's minds. Her words 'well, it doesn't have to be like that' rang huge warning bells with me.

bigTillyMint Tue 16-Apr-13 13:06:53

Well, my gut instinct was right - self-obsessed PFBy.

I just hope she doesn't book herself and her DD in and ruin your weekend.

DontmindifIdo Tue 16-Apr-13 13:07:54

I bet she thought once you were all there, she'd be able to influence what you did, if her DD was there then of course you'd behave and not swear, talk about people you randomly shagged back when you were housemates, and would agree to do things a bit more child-friendly when faced with a whinging child - that without a table being booked in advance, she could convince you all to go to somewhere childfriendly at a time that suits her DD. Perhaps it's so long since she did anything without DD she can't comprehend of you doing non-child-friendly stuff.

But that's her problem, you've made it clear. She can fit in or not.

expatinscotland Tue 16-Apr-13 13:11:20

'We will send her the details so she can book herself in or not as she wants. We are worried, from what she said, that she might get on to other members of the group and start wheedling them to agree to go to a child friendly hotel or bucket and spade type location instead of the really nice country house style hotel we'd decided on so we want to pre empt that.

Forthright friend is also going to email the others telling them about the conversation she had with the mum and making it clear that she has been told, in no uncertain terms, that her daughter is not welcome.'

Good. I wouldn't give her the hotel details and would book adults-only lodging.

Don't feel guilty or apologise, it's not fair on you all or the child. I can't imagine dragging my 7-year-old DD along on a weekend like that.

Lottashakingoinon Tue 16-Apr-13 13:16:12

Her words 'well, it doesn't have to be like that' rang huge warning bells with me.

I'm not surprised. And no it doesn't have to be like that...but the rest of you want it to be, so that's good enough. If she wants a child friendly break she should go for it with a group of like minded people and knock herself out...but she has no right to hijack someone else's child UNfriendly break!

flaminghoopsaloohlah Tue 16-Apr-13 13:23:08

She's not much of a "friend" is she? Is this the first incident of being completely obtuse and manipulative?

If it isn't I'd be taking this opportunity to kick her to the kerb...permanently.

Snazzynewyear Tue 16-Apr-13 13:23:49

There is the danger she will book herself a room, but hopefully she has got the message by now. If she does book herself in and brings her DD, you will have to front it out - sit in the bar as long as you like and tell her mother she will have to take her DD for a walk. Make sure you book your dinner table for well after bedtime.

My DS is well behaved, charming and engages well with adults (of course grin) but I can categorically say he would find a weekend in a lovely hotel with me and my female friends the dullest thing ever, unless there was a running buffet of sweets and Pixar films on in the same room. It is a real shame that this 'friend' is determined not only to spoilt your grown up time, but to subject her DD to a weekend that will not actually be very nice for her at all. Maybe she likes to think she is so indispensable as a mother that her DD can't stand to be away from her for a whole weekend?

ImTooHecsyForYourParty Tue 16-Apr-13 13:28:14

"It doesn't have to be like that"

erm yes. It does. Because that's the sort of weekend you all want!

She clearly wants to change it to a weekend of play barns and happy meals.

You have been very clear and fair. She really is being selfish.

I wonder if she's got mummy's little princess at home demanding to come. hmm

DontmindifIdo Tue 16-Apr-13 13:30:40

If you wanted to be really sneeky and undermine her possible arguments with the others that this is excluding her nice, you could suggest that in six months time/next year you'll do a weekend away with all the DCs, somewhere suitable like centre parcs. So if she doesn't want to join the 'adult only' event, she can just come to the 'child friendly' one next time... wink

Angelico Tue 16-Apr-13 13:31:19

Have to say am amazed she pushed it this far, unless her DH really is a complete twunt and she's desperate to go and see you all. Which would be a shame - but not your fault! I think you've all been as nice as you can about it.

Loulybelle Tue 16-Apr-13 13:34:09

If Mrs Demanding does bring DD, then make it clear your gonna playing Adults for the whole weekend, if she dont like it, then she can go off with DD.

angelos02 Tue 16-Apr-13 13:36:30

She sounds like a nightmare. What does she think will happen if she turns up with her DD? That a group of adults on an adult holiday are going to happily change their plans and modify their behaviour? Don't think so. It is like when people take their children to a pub and tut at the swearing. Erm...its an adult environment chump.

NinaHeart Tue 16-Apr-13 13:56:07

If she shows up with DD maybe your opening gambit should be to carol loudly and cheerfully "Hello you little anklebiting fuckwit" just to give her a flavour of the proposed weekend?

StanleyLambchop Tue 16-Apr-13 14:00:46

Trouble is, if she does brazen it out with her DD you probably will end up changing how you behave because a child is present. Would you really want to go over 'the old days' about former shags when a child is wide-eyed and listening- I would feel a bit strange doing that. I would assume you want to discuss things within the group, and not have someone who was not within the group (and is 6 years old) earwigging!

For what it is worth, IMO it is a done deal that she will bring her DD. She is not listening at all to what you are all saying.

DontmindifIdo Tue 16-Apr-13 14:04:59

Another option, call the hotel, say there's a chance another person will be joining your party and is considering bringing their child with them, but wants to join in with you all, do they have a list of nannies or babysitters they can call? Get details, then if she does turn up with DD, tell her she's to either go book the nanny service or you will be all going off to do grown up things, see you at 8pm in the bar.

Lottashakingoinon Tue 16-Apr-13 14:09:50

Enough with the pussyfooting already.

Email her a link to this thread grin. That ought to do it!

JaxTellerIsAllMine Tue 16-Apr-13 14:21:14

wow! just WOW! More front than Blackpool indeed. grin

cheeky mare. Adults only weekend. FFS, what part does she not 'get'?

2rebecca Germany Tue 16-Apr-13 14:45:43

I think you and your friends should just get on with orgainsing the weekend as you are and keep maing it clear to the other friend that he daughter is definitely not invited on this weekend and it is adults only. It sounds as though the friendship won't last beyond this weekend anyway. If you book an adults only weekend away and your babysitter falls through you cancel, you don't try and drag the kid along. If it was me I'd be telling my husband that I booked the weekend away first though and leaving him to sort out childcare. I'm not sure why the child is now her problem. Strange she is being stroppy and overassertive with you yet not equally assertive with her husband, that doesn't ring true so i wonder if he booked his weekend away first.

Farewelltoarms Tue 16-Apr-13 15:00:30

Just thinking about the time recently when I got one of those dreaded 'your dc is feeling poorly' phone calls from school just before a women-only birthday lunch that I'd been really looking forward. What did I do?
a) I rung the restaurant immediately to reduce the booking by one as I didn't want my friend to have the hassle of doing it
b) I went to the restaurant with my (not very poorly as it happens) 6yo dd to give friend her birthday present, sit down for ten minutes to toast her and then leave. I felt that even ten minutes with daughter drawing on a napkin was a bit cheeky of me.
The idea of doing that for a full weekend?!?
At it's not just the shagging stories. When my dh and I go away (ok the twice it's happened) we've gone on really long walks. The joy of walking at a brisk pace without anyone whining, ah bliss. I would love to go on a two-hour walk with my five best friends and then come back to a huge martini. Bliss.
Do not feel guilty. Do not allow her to come. Do not allow any of this to impinge on your weekend at all.

CheerfulYank Tue 16-Apr-13 15:00:32

Jeeez, she's got a nerve!

Floggingmolly Tue 16-Apr-13 15:05:22

If your dd was potentially passing on the lurgy to the birthday guests, then it may have been, Farewell.

ProphetOfDoom Tue 16-Apr-13 15:13:24

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Binkybix Tue 16-Apr-13 15:14:54

OP - when is the weekend? I need to know how this finishes!

angelos02 Tue 16-Apr-13 15:30:02

If she does turn up with DD in tow, she is clearly bonkers. If she does OP, just carry on with all the activities you had planned. Don't change a thing and make it very clear how furious you are with her.

arabesque Tue 16-Apr-13 15:31:43

It's the second weekend in June. A friend who now lives in America is coming over for a wedding on the previous weekend (a bank holiday here) so we're having a get together before she goes back. We're planning to travel down on the Friday and come back Sunday evening.

As I've said, it's the first time we've all been together in ten years. Only three of us still live in Dublin, one is in America, one in London, two in Northern Ireland and one in Cork. Really sad that one person has thrown a damper on it. But I was talking to my sister and she said that anytime she's arranged to go away with a gang you can be guaranteed there will be one person who starts trying to make last minute changes or inconvenience everyone to suit themselves. There's always one!

arabesque Tue 16-Apr-13 15:32:53

Sorry, only two of us still live in Dublin.

Binkybix Tue 16-Apr-13 15:38:08

Thanks. That's my due date!

Just don't let it cast a shadow. In a way it's better that's she's gone SO over the top with this, because you know 100% the blame lays squarely with her.

BOF Tue 16-Apr-13 15:40:17

Which are you looking forward to more, Binky, the birth or the update? grin

arabesque Tue 16-Apr-13 15:41:49

I agree Binky, I've stopped worrying about 'upsetting' her because she really doesn't seem to be concerned about upsetting us.
TBH I really hope she doesn't come now. I know that sounds mean but she's just caused so much annoyance that I think we'd find it hard to be genuinely happy to see her.

Binkybix Tue 16-Apr-13 15:42:16

Hard one to call! smile

arabesque Tue 16-Apr-13 15:42:57

ps will be thinking of you Binky while I'm (hopefully) sipping a nice big glass of wine on a sun lit lawn.

Hullygully Tue 16-Apr-13 15:44:53

<strangely enthralled>

Binkybix Tue 16-Apr-13 15:45:41

Maybe I'll use sipping a big glass of wine on the sunlit lawn as my happy place smile

rainbow2000 Tue 16-Apr-13 15:52:20

Well as we say in Dublin she has a neck like a jockeys bollix.The nerve of her and i wouldnt be ringing hotels on her behalf to see if they have nanny or babysitters that would just be giving in to her.

Let her bring her dd hope they enjoy each others company cause tehy wont be having yours

arabesque Tue 16-Apr-13 15:54:15

Funny, rainbow my sister's words when I was talking to her were 'God, she has a neck like a jockey's arse' grin

K8Middleton Tue 16-Apr-13 15:56:27

I really, really want to know what happens next.

Lottashakingoinon Tue 16-Apr-13 16:00:40

God, she has a neck like a jockey's arse
she has a neck like a jockeys bollix

Officially entered into my lexicon as of now!

Mommy2Bee Tue 16-Apr-13 16:07:02

It sounds like this opportunity for the four of you to get together doesnt come around often....golf happens most weekends. But looking from the other side it's the being together that counts and it would be horrible for your friend to miss out because her DH is a g*t.

Mommy2Bee Tue 16-Apr-13 16:10:06

Sorry, for some reason I ddnt see the recent messages (baby brain prob)....

NinaHeart Tue 16-Apr-13 16:55:25

Ooh hurrah. I am on holiday first week of June. An update will make it worth coming home.

ExcuseTypos Tue 16-Apr-13 17:41:52

Gosh what a cheeky mare!

schoolgovernor Tue 16-Apr-13 17:42:20

You need another of my emails... cc'd to the rest of the group.

Dear Daft Friend

Just to let you know that, as discussed, I have now booked accommodation and a table in the restaurant in the evening for the rest of us. If you want to come let me know and I'll add another one to the booking.

As explained, this is an adult-only trip. I'm really looking forward to it.

Lotsa love...

rainbow2000 Tue 16-Apr-13 18:12:40

She would really have to have some neck to turn up with her dd at this stage.
Hopefully she now knows its really adult only and no kids means no kids,no matter who they ares

bettycocker Tue 16-Apr-13 18:19:50

YANBU. I've had to turn these kinds of things down before, due to lack of childcare. It's just the way it goes.

AThingInYourLife Tue 16-Apr-13 18:26:47

It's so bizarre that she ever thought this was a goer.

That she thought she could dominate the proceedings through the application of a 6 year old ("it doesn't have to be like that") is also very weird.

I too would be hoping she absented herself from proceedings.

snooter Tue 16-Apr-13 18:34:14

I have one or two girls' weekends a year with three women I went to school with. Only once has a child been allowed & he was a breast-feeding 5/12 old baby. They are booked months in advance & if there's a clash with any husbands' arrangements then gramps or friends are roped in. The whole point of the weekends is "no husbands or kids".

Floggingmolly Tue 16-Apr-13 18:59:11

She's demonstrated a severe amount of neck so far, Rainbow, I wouldn't rule anything out just yet.

rainbow2000 Tue 16-Apr-13 19:00:29

This thread is great much better than any soap opera.
After every update i have the Eastenders Dum Dum Dum.I wonder what will happen next.Cant wait.

Fillyjonk75 Tue 16-Apr-13 19:14:23

Marking place

clam Tue 16-Apr-13 19:15:16

She may well have her DH bending her ear telling her what bitches you all are for not wanting the dd to come along. The fact that this whole thing has come about because he wants to slope off and play golf during your girlie weekend will probably have now been lost in translation.

FullLegBikiniandUnderArm Tue 16-Apr-13 19:16:20

I'm dying to know what the loveliest hotel ever is!???

Loulybelle Tue 16-Apr-13 19:19:29

I find it odd that first time in 10 years you can all be together and her DH just HAS to play golf.

ihearsounds Tue 16-Apr-13 19:21:31

So what does she think a girly weekend involves?
Lounging round the pool all day, having afternoon tea and into bed early. With a visit to the zoo and park thrown in?

Manyofhorror3 Tue 16-Apr-13 19:31:19

Can't someone start channelling her? I'm desperate to know what goes through the mind of a person like this!
C'mon there must be someone out there who knows why she thinks this is acceptable?

Farewelltoarms Tue 16-Apr-13 19:41:50

Sorry a while back, but my 'poorly daughter' had fallen over and was feeling sorry for herself hence being sent home from school so no danger of lurgy passing on there to whoever accused me...
Anyway, whatever, back to this question, she's under some sort of delusion. Has she ever been away from daughter? You know those couples who used to think they counted as one share in a split restaurant bill, or who'd pay half a share on a taxi? There are some parents like that too. I think they honestly forget or even fear themselves without their ventriloquist's dummy.

Farewelltoarms Tue 16-Apr-13 19:43:44

She probably will in fact sit her daughter on her knee and say things like 'dd knows that mummy doesn't like it when people use their potty mouth, don't you dd' and 'dd thinks that the grown-ups are talking a bit funny now that they've had some of those drinks with parasols in them'.

Second weekend in June you day? Girlie weekend in best hotel ever on the west coast of Ireland? Better than waiting for an update would be to go and spectate... Anyone in? <evil grin> grin

I promise not to bring my delightfully well behaved sons!

IwishIwasmoreorganised Tue 16-Apr-13 19:54:22

Love that plan YellowDinosaur!

Dozer Tue 16-Apr-13 19:55:43

Can we come please?

Lottashakingoinon Tue 16-Apr-13 19:55:54

Am clearing my diary now!

Everyone us welcome as long as you drink like a fish, swear like a trooper and LEAVE THE KIDS AT HOME! grin

Dozer Tue 16-Apr-13 19:58:32

Ooh, the cocktails, the gossip, the food.......

Oh, and OP, am sure given her recent behaviour there must be LOADS to tell about what she was like as a housemate all those years ago!

Euphemia France Tue 16-Apr-13 19:59:09

I'm in! grin

seriouscakeeater Tue 16-Apr-13 20:11:43

shameless marking!! sorry lol

Floggingmolly Tue 16-Apr-13 20:16:35

I'll be in Dublin round about then, I'm in too!

ComeYoniWithMe Tue 16-Apr-13 20:17:42

When she rang you was her twat of a Dh mentioned at all?

RenterNomad Tue 16-Apr-13 20:21:06

Keep in with the hotel, so thatif she books with a child, the booking can be cancelled!

LemonBreeland Tue 16-Apr-13 20:21:55

Wow I can't believe that she still hasn't got it. Some people really believe the world revolves around them.

LaurenGB Tue 16-Apr-13 20:50:06

I have just read this thread from start to finish and scraped my jaw off the floor. What on earth is this friend thinking??

She sounds a little unhinged lol!

McKayz Germany Tue 16-Apr-13 21:09:42

I really hope she doesn't book a room for her and her DD.

rainbow2000 Tue 16-Apr-13 21:20:38

We should run a book who is gonna give us the odds.
4/1 fav she turns up with dd

Undertone Tue 16-Apr-13 21:35:08

10/1 golfbastard DH intervenes and contacts one of the friendship group to 'sort them out' and moan they are being mean to mumfriend wifey.

Nah, I reckon golfbastard DH is a bit of a myth and doesn't know he's shouldering the blame for everything.

5/1 she shakes the dust of the friendship group off her feet complaining that they are all a nest of vipers.

Bearbehind Tue 16-Apr-13 21:43:18

I agree that golfbastard is a myth- the entitled one doesn't seem to have mentioned him again. I think she just thinks her princess should do what mummy does.

I fear that if you have given her the hotel details she will book a room for her and dd and sod the consequences.

I also think she may well still try to email the others and try to weedle them round to her way of thinking.

I fear she genuinly does not get it.... But stand firm!

Now, when and where are you going <checks diary and books holiday> grin

shoofly Tue 16-Apr-13 22:14:09

am scraping my jaw off the floor at the cheek of her, but also laughing at the thought of a mumsnet meetup in a lovely hotel in the west of Ireland. I'm sure arabesque is delighted to see how many mnetters want to gatecrash grin

Trillz Tue 16-Apr-13 22:14:17

Give us the hotel details, we'll all come instead and she won't be able to book a room for her and DD.

'well, it doesn't have to be like that' << Massive grrrrr at this! Yes it does. That's the whole point. Nobody wants to change their entire weekend for you.

CorrieDale Tue 16-Apr-13 22:17:27

I will take a punt on the 5/1 nest of vipers offering. And if this thread makes it into the Talk email, I'd be prepared to risk a tenner on it...

Summerblaze Tue 16-Apr-13 22:22:34

Can't believe how seriously entitled some people are.

Me and DH took my 7 year old DD to London with my sister and her DH for 3 days to see the sights and see a show. She is also a very sensible girl and likes adult company BUT as it was a weekend that we knew would include her, it wasn't "a piss up".

After whatever we did during the day, we had a meal out early on and then went back to our hotel to sleep. We didn't swear or chat about anything appropriate. Obviously if I had planned for it to be adults only we would have had a completely different weekend.

As we had arranged for her to come, all was fine but if a child her age had been dropped on me for an adults only weekend, I would be well pissed off.

Stick to your guns.

rainbow2000 Wed 17-Apr-13 07:43:27

Bump keep us updated op,brilliant thread

Mumof3men Wed 17-Apr-13 07:59:25

I predict too that she will appear at the hotel with a glorious shout of 'Surprise!' She will be hoping in person that you and your friends won't say anything so as to avoid a 'scene'.
Can't wait for the actual update at the time!

MidniteScribbler Wed 17-Apr-13 08:05:26

If she does show up with her daughter in tow I would consider the friendship well and truly past salvaging and tell her bluntly that she is not welcome to be joining in with you as she disregarded your very reasonable attempts at getting the message across and therefore has not respected you or your friends and the friendship is considered at an end. She is being downright obnoxious.

BelfastBloke Wed 17-Apr-13 08:09:26

I think I fancy forthright friend.

Ask her if she fancies a bunk-up?

We have to wait until June to see what Baby'sBFF pulls?! shock

Lottashakingoinon Wed 17-Apr-13 08:26:18

Never fear Horry there may be interim atrocities <shamefully prurient emoticon>

arabesque Wed 17-Apr-13 10:21:12

This thread is really cheering me up now. Self entitled friend has not replied to email re bookings so not sure if she's sulking or planning her next mode of attack. Forthright friend reckons next thing is we'll get sad, poigant email 'from DD'
"Oh pleese let me cum on hollerdays with mummy's friends. I'm only
lickle and won't get in the way. I promith."

I have vowed if she does I am going to drink a bottle of whiskey and then pick up the phone....... grin

Loulybelle Wed 17-Apr-13 10:26:24

Arabesque, if she dared do that, then we all know what kind of person she is then, and then deserves the Brass Neck award for "Sheer effort of manipulation and control".

MidniteScribbler Wed 17-Apr-13 10:27:12

Record that phone call and post a link please!!

Floggingmolly Wed 17-Apr-13 10:29:16

If the dd gets in on the act directly; get your kids to reply.
That should see her off.

Loulybelle Wed 17-Apr-13 10:33:15

ha imagine it, "Wee arent aloud to come, so you arent aloud ever"

schoolgovernor Wed 17-Apr-13 11:19:02

Arabesque - get in first - send the email I composed up-thread. grin

LadyBeagleEyes Wed 17-Apr-13 11:23:25

So what will you all do Arabesque if she does turn up with her daughter?

NinaHeart Wed 17-Apr-13 11:24:27

Please pretend DD is invisible and none of you can see or hear her.
(I want to be there)

MissLurkalot Wed 17-Apr-13 11:28:20

Still no reply from her? Crikes... That's rather melodramatic!
Well, the ball is on her court now,

YouTheCat Wed 17-Apr-13 11:30:56

I really hope she decides not to come. If she does, without her dd, she's going to spoil it by moaning the whole time.

arabesque Wed 17-Apr-13 11:44:58

Aaaagh! She has texted the member of the group who lives near her in Northern Ireland to ask if they can meet up for lunch tomorrow as she 'needs to have a chat'. This Northern Ireland friend has emailed me to say 'What the fuck should I do?. Thinking of making an excuse as don't want her catching me on the hop about something'.

I knew the silence was a bit ominous.

The whole thing is getting a bit school girly at this stage angry

I've emailed NI friend and said I agree with her and think its unfair of entitled friend to start trying to 'divide and rule' which is, I think, what she's up to.
I think, at this stage, we might have to consider telling her it would be better if she didn't come (which is going to throw a shadow over the whole thing).
Sorry for posting about every email, but this thread is like therapy at the moment.

Oh please do keep posting.

Manyofhorror3 Wed 17-Apr-13 11:49:48

Please don't stop posting! I'm standing here with a pile of ironing and your thread is helping me through it!

Is she taking DD to see Other Friend? I bet she is, to show how grown up and special she is!

NinaHeart Wed 17-Apr-13 11:50:03

Does this woman never give up?

Best outcome, she meets friend for a chat andf friend gives her the party line good and strong. I am hoping it is aforementioned forthrightfriend who willl give it to her with both barrels. Can friend be coached beforehand with a broken record statement, eg "all I will say is that this is an adults only weekend as previously agreed. We are not going back on that decision" ?

Avoiding the issue will allow her to think there is leeway.

K8Middleton Wed 17-Apr-13 11:55:09

Of course she may just want to go to lunch to discuss the massive faux pas she has made trying to railroad you all in to reneging on the original deal.

I think it will be much worse to avoid her. Be honest, be firm. Don't start cutting her out because it'll just make things worse.

Binkybix Wed 17-Apr-13 11:58:06

Please don't stop posting!

I don't know if NI friend is assertive friend, but in her position I would say I was happy to meet up for lunch, but that I wasn't keen to talk about the DD coming to weekend away because the group has already made the decision that it's adults only.

That would flush her out, but also stops a permanent divide (unless that's what you want at this point!)

LadyHarrietdeSpook Wed 17-Apr-13 12:00:37

I thought your first email was perfect - it's what I would have felt able to send as her friend. -is mug -

It's sad she's being crazy - it's funny isn't how people attempt 'sensible' emails/responses to people assuming that it will breed sensibleness in them and it so often doesn't.

If I were your friend, I would be emailing/texting back saying: If it's about the holiday, I just want to let you know I agree with the decision.

LadyBeagleEyes Wed 17-Apr-13 12:04:03

Bloody hell Arabesque, don't stop posting.
We need every detail, every e.mail and every conversation.
I'm loving this thread grin

Loulybelle Wed 17-Apr-13 12:04:15

Wow, shes got more brass than a set a brass monkies.

arabesque Wed 17-Apr-13 12:07:05

Thanks. I will pass that advice on to NI friend (will say I have been discussing situation with a couple of colleagues) and say that, if she wouldn't mind, maybe might as well be best to meet up and face situation head on.
I feel sorry for her though as she's more assertive than me but not nearly as assertive as forthright friend who would deal with this so much better. But unfortunately we're both in Dublin so I can't suggest she goes along as well.

Sugarice Wed 17-Apr-13 12:09:11

I would definitely go with telling the lunch friend to text back and say if it's about the women only holiday then the decision has been made and it would be awkward to discuss it further.

Don't stop posting, please grin.

I've never met some of the women described on here who have more cheek than a baboon's arse.

2rebecca Germany Wed 17-Apr-13 12:09:47

If I were the friend I agree that I'd reply that I'm not interested in discussing the weekend away and agree that it should be adult only and if she can't come then you'll see her another time. I would never have time to meet anyone for lunch during the week so am surprised she expects this. I'd tell her I'd prefer to phone if she wants a chat about other stuff not related to the weekend as I'm busy. Unless they are close friends I wouldn't want to have a stressful lunch with moany not much of a friend.

LadyHarrietdeSpook Wed 17-Apr-13 12:10:52

Can your friend DEFINITELY handle saying no though?

Is crazy friend prone to tears/unpleasantness?

I wouldn't want to put someone else through that.

Or is it likely she'll conclude the lunch promising to 'discuss it further with the others.'

angelos02 Wed 17-Apr-13 12:11:11

She needs to be told, on new uncertain terms, that her dd is not welcome. Usually on AIBU, a few people disagree but I don't think I've seen a single post that is not in your favour.

LemonBreeland Wed 17-Apr-13 12:17:12

Sugarrice has a good plan. That way she is in no doubt as to the party line being taken.

rainbow2000 Wed 17-Apr-13 12:17:21

She really doesnt give up,sending you strenght you are gonna need it

I've been lurking in the background reading this and have found that Holiday Hassle friend doesn't appear to have gotten the message yet. I'm also in the same thought that she may just appear at the hotel with her daughter in tow so be prepared for that.

I agree with Binkybix and get your NI friend to get back to Holiday Hassle Friend saying that she is happy to meet for lunch and a chat but that as the holiday in June has been booked and agreed with the other friends, that if that is what she wants to chat about she wouldn't be comfortable to discuss it further without any of the others there.

If Holiday hassle friend does then bring the topic of conversation around to the upcoming trip, then your NI friend can say "I'm not comfortable talking about this trip or the circumstances around it. The decision has already been made that it's going to be an adult only trip so I'd appreciate it if we could talk about something else".

All very nice, very polite but firmly putting holiday hassle friend back in her box! smile

Kiriwawa Wed 17-Apr-13 12:22:21

I wouldn't want to be your friend in NI and to meet her face to face. I'd definitely make an excuse

She's being really unfair (and has more cheek than a baboon's arse as sugarrice says)

I hope NI friend is assertive enough to go broken record on her, and to meet brass neck with brass neck. "No, it is a child-free weekend. No, we can't discuss it without the others."

Unfortunately I think it more likely that CrazyFriend uses MN and has identified herself confused

I know you've all been friends for a long time, so I wonder if she has changed, or if DD has just brought out the worst in her? Most people like me who feel unable or unwilling to leave their children accomplish this by not going to stuff. Which is also crap, I recognise, but it doesn't involve foisting your parenting decisions on other people.

Or if she has changed, any chance her marriage is breaking down or something and that's why (a) she can't rely on the husband and (b) she didn't want to say so in the round robin emails but feels able to talk to just one of you about it face to face?

Trying to be charitable for a minute.

DontmindifIdo Wed 17-Apr-13 12:27:17

Perhaps you could prime NI to ask the question - "look [holiday hassle friend] - it's a grown ups only weekend away, no husbands no kids, if you don't want to go, that's fine but is there a reason why you don't feel you can leave your daughter behind with her Dad? Is there something wrong there? Do you not trust him to look after her safely? Or does he refuse?"

Find out what the problem actually is, if it's that she doesn't want to leave her DD, then fine, don't go, if she's in a realtionship with a cunt, then helping her see other solutions like leaving the DD with grandparents etc might be in order and cutting her some slack. If she's just being PFB, then she needs to get over herself and realise that not all occasions are suitable for under 18s.

Oh good luck arabesque - I too have been glued to this thread for the last 20 5mins. Please do keep posting, and am sending psychic stand your ground thoughts to you and all your other proper friends. Agree with rebecca and suggest lunch is avoided too!

Oh ffs! Seriously she needs to be dumped!

If tomorrow is about the trip then I strongly suggest an email saying

"Hi knobhead

The weekend is starting to become a massive issue which kind of defeats the purpose. Maybe you'd like to sit this one out and maybe a few of us can arrange a kiddies weekend in the hugely distant future."

As for now, I agree with sugar. Tell NI to text back and say 'I'm free for lunch but I really don't want to talk about the weekend. I think it's starting to cause tension and I don't want to get caught up in that'.

arabesque Wed 17-Apr-13 12:46:27

NI Ireland friend has texted self entitled friend to say that she's mad busy in work but could 'nip out for half an hour for a very quick lunch'. She has also said f it's about our weekend away she knows there's been a bit of argy bargy about it but its been agreed now that nobody's children are welcome so she doesn't want to get into further discussion on that. It wouldn't be fair on everyone else.

So as it stands they're meeting for a quick lunch tomorrow but NI friend is hoping self entitled friend's gun has been spiked and she might text back to say she doesn't want to meet now.

I feel I should have a map on the wall and be moving flags around between Dublin, Northern Ireland, New York, London and Cork. smile

Good for NI friend!

Are we taking bets on whether she throws a strop and falls out with everyone?!

MadamGazelleIsMyMum Wed 17-Apr-13 12:51:55

Stand firm OP (and friends). What an entitled person.

5Foot5 Wed 17-Apr-13 12:52:27

Been lurking so far and enjoying this thoroughly. But one thing has occurred to me. What if your NI friend does agree to go for lunch with her, having psyched herself up to say "Sorry adults only", and then the stupid woman turns up with her DD in tow?

Won't that make it even harder for NI Mum to effectively say the DD is not welcome while the DD is sitting there making sad puppy eyes?

LIZS Wed 17-Apr-13 12:53:44

Excellent of NI friend ! Present a united front of "aren't we all so looking forward to not having to fret about our kids and just be ourselves"

Sugarice Wed 17-Apr-13 12:55:22

I'm betting that MumFriend will bale out of the lunch now she knows LunchMate isn't going to fall for any flannel and sad faces.

Binkybix Wed 17-Apr-13 12:56:36

But NI friend has already said DD is not welcome in the text.

I would hope (prob in vain) that entitled friend would not bring DD to he lunch o plead the case. Surely not....would she?! Can see how old be difficult, but just need to default back to the fact that no children are coming.

McKayz Germany Wed 17-Apr-13 12:58:27

She really doesn't get it does she?

StanleyLambchop Wed 17-Apr-13 13:00:55

The child will be at school, surely? She would not seriously take her out of school to bring her along to the lunch? Would she really be that bonkers?

Lunch could be after school? My 6 year old finishes at 1.30 so it's possible.

Is it wrong that I kind of hope she brings dd? <evil>

ladymariner Wed 17-Apr-13 13:03:24

Yes stanley I think she probably would!

GingerBlondecat Wed 17-Apr-13 13:04:02

Was MumFriend going or planning to bring child to said meeting with IR friend as well grin

After all she cant go anywhere without Snookems

Or is MumFriend going to sulk, now that she knows that IR Isnt going to be a pushover?

I really dont understand this woman [Mumfriend]

StanleyLambchop Wed 17-Apr-13 13:05:30

Fuck, she really has some problems if she tries to pull that off!

GingerBlondecat Wed 17-Apr-13 13:05:33

^ Gahh, Im slow at typeing

StoicButStressed Wed 17-Apr-13 13:07:48

YA(sooooo)NBU (and like Kinkyfuckery, single parent here too!)

Wouldn't just change the 'tone' of event - would 100% change the type of event (&, if I've got it right, the purpose too?)

If DF committed to it AFTER her DH's 'golf' plans, then she's in wrong and it's her own fault; if he made them AFTER knowing she was away, it's down to him (& to her to not be a doormat either). <Muses if her DH delib arranged his golf weekend to ensure she would remain enslaved in wife/mother role rather than having girlie fun???>

Anyway, collectively just point out that it isn't, & never was, THAT kind of break - quite opposite. Not ok for one person in a group to entirely change nature of it - late mornings, way too much alcoholsmile & loads of late night reminiscing, l'il spa treats, copious swearing and filth talk etc etc ETCwink

Lottashakingoinon Wed 17-Apr-13 13:13:10

Is it logistically possible to send a total group email (ie copying in everyone in the group ) along the lines of 'This HAS been decided there are NO children, end of discussion. If you (entitled rhino hide) still can/want to come then great, otherwise, see ya next time'

This may put paid to ant divide and rule shenanigans

ExcuseTypos Wed 17-Apr-13 13:18:26

God she sounds a bit mad immature.

Well done to your friend for setting out the facts- yet again.

I think if she still doesn't get the message, you may have to do something drastic.

How about hiring a plane which will fly, with a banner, over her house "Miss Self Entitled, children are not welcome at our weekend away"

That should do it.grin

Cerisier Wed 17-Apr-13 13:19:23

How can anyone be so self-obsessed? So keen to go against a whole group of people? Wow. She has the hide of a rhinoceros (as we say in England grin).

GingerBlondecat Wed 17-Apr-13 13:20:03

Batten down the hatches. I see her bringing along the child anyway, just to 'Proove' to you all that her child is 'No troubles' on a holliday hmm

Lottashakingoinon Wed 17-Apr-13 13:20:31

Good plan Typos but I fear you may be a little optimistic...just about everything else SHOULD have done it...but didn't!

Cerisier Wed 17-Apr-13 13:20:32

Cross post with Lotta and her rhino hide!

Squitten Wed 17-Apr-13 13:20:59

Crikey - she's not going to drop the bone is she?! Fingers crossed your friend keeps to the agreed line!

I am GRIPPED by this thread grin

GingerBlondecat Wed 17-Apr-13 13:21:11

Can someone explain to me... WHY she is doing this? What is her motives?

sleeton Wed 17-Apr-13 13:23:21

As DontmindifIdo says, on the one hand it does seem fair for your NI friend to give the entitled one the opportunity to explain why she needs/wants to bring DD. "Find out what the problem actually is, if it's that she doesn't want to leave her DD, then fine, don't go, if she's in a realtionship with a cunt, then helping her see other solutions like leaving the DD with grandparents etc might be in order and cutting her some slack"

The problem I see with that, however, is as soon as you open yourself to hear lengthy explanation, you can also leave yourself open to being bombarded with negotiation!

I would say, if it turns out her situation is difficult, then it's okay to be sympathetic and suggest things like leaving the child with grandparents or a second child-inclusive get-together, but very important to also stand firm that this trip is adults only.

Lottashakingoinon Wed 17-Apr-13 13:23:41

Okay Ginger new readers start here grin

What she initially gave the press was that her DH planned a golfing weekend after this reunion was planned, but that seems to have fallen a bit by the wayside, and it now just seems that she wants to becasue she wants to...nothing more is known.

Now read on...<expects millions of X posts!>

Lottashakingoinon Wed 17-Apr-13 13:25:51

Cross post with Lotta and her rhino hide

Cerisier I'll have you know I have the backside of an emaciated matchstick actually you were right first time, but in any case I know that's not what you meant!!

Sugarice Wed 17-Apr-13 13:29:30

I reckon because she has already promised her dd an exciting weekend with Mums's friends she doesn't want to break the news that dd is not invited.

Maybe her dd is a touch spoilt and likely to throw a humongous queen sized strop when the bad news is broken!

GingerBlondecat Wed 17-Apr-13 13:30:05

Thankss Lotta grin

I've read it all, just mind boggled at her way of thinking.
There is NO Gain here for her. She leeps this up, she wil be without any friends.

skippedtheripeoldmango Wed 17-Apr-13 13:32:46

Because she's Hyacinth Bucket with a good dose of insidious added...

CinnabarRed Wed 17-Apr-13 13:33:16

I'm starting to feel a bit worried for self-entitled friend.

Either her DH is an arse. Or she's unnaturally attached to her DD and sees her as a friend rather than a child (in which case I feel worried for the DD as well).

Neither is healthy.

Just caught up with this.
Wow - she sounds like a real 'piece of work'
I hope your friend handles it well tomorrow.
Wish her luck from us!!!

Good text by NI friend. Hope it has the desired effect.

The whole thing is achingly sad one way or another. I hope it doesn't spoil the weekend itself.

lunar1 Wed 17-Apr-13 13:40:52

Wow she really never gives up does she!

Sunnywithshowers Wed 17-Apr-13 13:47:37

<unlurks>

I hope tomorrow goes okay...

SugarPasteGreyhound Wed 17-Apr-13 13:51:42

I bet she still tries it on at the lunch. some people never learn that the world does not revolve around them and their offspring!

UnrequitedSkink Wed 17-Apr-13 13:57:18

Can't believe I've only just seen this thread - I am loving the updates! Arabesque, has she always been this much hard work?!

bigTillyMint Wed 17-Apr-13 14:11:10

Cinnabar, True Say!

arabesque Wed 17-Apr-13 14:12:57

She has texted NI friend back to say 'not much point coming all the way into town for a quick half hour lunch. How about I call over to yours tomorrow evening? I could bring some pizza for the kids and we could get a takeaway.

Absolutely no mention of 'not talking about the weekend' and obviously intends to bring DD with her. I'm starting to think she's unhinged. I don't remember her being like this in the house, she did sometimes invite herself along to parties or ask 'okay if I join?' if one of us was meeting up with some college friends for a few drinks, and I remember feeling a bit irritated sometimes, but I don't recall it being a big issue or people talking about it that much. The odd eyes rolled now and again, but that was it.

Anyway, NI friend has texted her back to say 'no, not possible. Next couple of weeks a bit crazy between work and kids stuff'.

McKayz Germany Wed 17-Apr-13 14:15:43

She's unhinged

Lottashakingoinon Wed 17-Apr-13 14:18:33

Re your last Arabesque SHEEEEEEEESH!

Right I said I would use it and here goes:

She's got the neck of a jockey's arse/bollox

But I have to say, I am beginning to feel a little bit sad for her.

arabesque Wed 17-Apr-13 14:20:36

I am beginning to feel a little bit sad for her.*

Oh please don't say that Lottashake. I'm terrified that's how it will go and one or other (or all) of us will feel guilt tripped into letting her bring DD because she's being so pathetic about it. sad

rainbow2000 Wed 17-Apr-13 14:20:42

She is unhinged i would just tell her she is not welcome.But she probably wont take the hint.

Or just tell her the whole things cancelled and go anyway

Loulybelle Wed 17-Apr-13 14:25:00

Dont feel guilty Arabesque, shes tried to manipulated and guilt you into change your weekend to suit herself.

Well screw her, its not one rule for one and another for the rest is it.

I dont take my DD onto girlie nights and stuff, i love my daughter, but i dont need to take her everywhere, shopping my friends dont mind because DD loves shopping, but night time is mummies time.

bigTillyMint Wed 17-Apr-13 14:26:43

She is unhinged and manipulative - a dangerous combination!

GingerBlondecat Wed 17-Apr-13 14:27:04

Sadly............. if you folks cave now. it would only serve to make her more Immoovable later. aka because she will be determined to Proove her DD is 'One of the Girls"

Sad

LadyBeagleEyes Wed 17-Apr-13 14:29:40

Oh Arabesque, don't waver.
It's her that's creating the problem.

MooncupGoddess Wed 17-Apr-13 14:29:52

Oh God!

Coincidentally I have had dealings with someone like this at work recently, and have realised that the only way to deal with it is to be absolutely, brutally upfront.

'No, sorry, that's not possible.'
'I'm afraid that we've discussed it and it's not possible.'
'As I told you yesterday, that's not possible.'

You will probably have to do it several times before it sinks in. Fortunately your nemesis is very transparent so your other friends should be able to see what she's doing very easily.

Squitten Wed 17-Apr-13 14:30:26

Look arabesque - DO NOT crumble woman!!

Think about the staggering arrogance involved to believe that she can rearrange a long-planned trip with a group of people to suit herself. And, not only that, but to then seemingly launch a sniper campaign against individuals when the decision goes against her.

She is deranged! And I agree with Ginger, imagine the monster you would create if you backed down now...

CinnabarRed Wed 17-Apr-13 14:30:41

We all love out kids but the rest of us understand that there are times and places that aren't suitable/where they're not welcome.

I'm starting to think that someone (Forthright Friend?) needs to call Self-Entitled Friend to probe a bit more about why she's so keen for DD to come along. Because it really isn't normal to be so attached to her DD as all that personally, much as I love my DCs, I can't wait for bedtime and some adult conversation.

Hullygully Wed 17-Apr-13 14:30:50

she is oddly fascinating

is there a way to find out WHY she is so insistent on coming with dd?

Hullygully Wed 17-Apr-13 14:31:09

xpost!

Grammaticus Wed 17-Apr-13 14:33:34

You don't think mad friend's husband has left, do you?

Kiriwawa Wed 17-Apr-13 14:37:10

She is not being pathetic at all! She's trying to emotionally blackmail you into letting her get her own way. Don't let her!

Surely if there was some issue with her DH, she'd have let one of you know by now?

motherinferior Wed 17-Apr-13 14:37:19

Yes, can we you bribe encourage FF to find out the backstory?

I have work to do, I can't spend all day mesmerised by this!

calamityjane Wed 17-Apr-13 14:37:46

delurking

have been following thread from the beginning and have to say I am astounded by your friend.

I have to agree with Cinnabar and get forthright friend to call her and get to the bottom of all this, otherwise I have a feeling that it's not going to end well for any of you sad

NI friend is doing very well. She definitely wants to use DD in the flesh as leverage.

Even if there is something horrible going on in her life, you don't have to include her daughter in your "just us" weekend.

Manyofhorror3 Wed 17-Apr-13 14:38:23

I think she's Overly Attached. I have a relative like this, who cannot allow her child out of her sight, not even to play somewhere else in their own house. She has a very sad history but all the same it's very tricky to deal with. Her child is 4.

Sugarice Wed 17-Apr-13 14:39:31

Don't waver arabesque, this is her plan, to grind you all down, Christ she's got some gall hasn't she?

She does need a collective email from the group with No, dd can't come, now drop it.

Pendipidy Wed 17-Apr-13 14:40:34

I am shamelessly marking place. This is like a maeve binchy novel!

Do not waiver!

I don't think it's sad. I don't feel sorry for her. I feel a boiling rage on your behalf.

She is ridiculous. Are you sure she's worth continuing a friendship with? Give her until the end of the week then text and say "have I to assume you're not coming then?"

Sorry, have lurked my way through 18 pages and just need to mark my place now!

LittleEdie Wed 17-Apr-13 14:45:50

Any normal person would be mortified with the responses she's had. Can't believe the cheek of her!

Cherriesarelovely Wed 17-Apr-13 14:47:10

Oh OP you can't back down on this. You really need to ask her point blank and very soon if she understands the situation.....ie "so, you do understand that your Dd can't come don't you?" or "you're not bringing Dd with you are you because it wont work for any of us and it's not fair". Please don't fall for her patheticness you will all spend the entire weekend resenting it.

Fiddlesticks8 Wed 17-Apr-13 14:47:39

Absolutely not. No kids allowed, it's supposed to be a grown up holiday. Having a mother and child along means that the rest of you can't relax thoroughly, conversational topics will have to be monitored -as does the simple event of eating and drinking , even that has to be child friendly.
Suggest a parent and kids weekend instead that you can all plan together next year. Put your foot down and don't give in....the rest of the group will all probably agree with you

EldritchCleavage Wed 17-Apr-13 14:48:18

Actually to be brutal about it, if there are problems in Entitled Friend's life, that is all the more reason to stand firm. This trip is not the time or place to deal with her problems or with a little DD suffering the fall-out. There is plenty of opportunity at other times to be supportive friends and give her time and empathy and help. But this trip was surely intended to be something different, and the other women have spent quite a lot of money for that something different.

My best friend's SIL and BIL did this with her DDs all the time, even aged e.g. 4 or 6. She even brought them along to adult parties and dinner parties at my friend's house, completely inappropriately (nothing major, just adults getting tiddly, having adult conversations, the occasional copping off and lots of bad dancing, but still). Friend was made to feel very unreasonable by the family for putting her foot down about it. She never got to the bottom of why, only that BIL was content to leave them at home but SIL wasn't. They still do it, but at least now the kids are young adults and so having them there is not so odd.

jennywren45 Wed 17-Apr-13 15:00:01

marks pace - Yes, a quick, email saying, " There is no more to discuss. No children are invited . Come or not. It's up to you but your daughter is not, under any circumstances, to come too."

Well done to lunch-refusing friend!
Cannot believe the gall.

Sunnywithshowers Wed 17-Apr-13 15:05:24

shock at what she's up to now. WTF?

Manyofhorror3 Wed 17-Apr-13 15:07:20

How did Other Friend reply?

NotSoNervous Wed 17-Apr-13 15:10:50

What a pita. You really can't give in now. I think you need to uninvite her it's not fair on the rest of you who have paid for a adult Only weekend to have it dampened by having a child there.

Please keep updating grin

seriouscakeeater Wed 17-Apr-13 15:13:08

Don't crumble!! If you let her bring DD, you will all be seething with resentment and weekend will be ruined!

Why don't you text entitled friend and say '' look been having a think..I know it probably upsetting you that you cant bring DD , so why don't you sit this one out and we can arrange to take all the kids some where special when we get back?''?

arabesque Wed 17-Apr-13 15:13:39

Forthright friend is now in the picture about recent developments. She is going to compose an email which will be cc'd to everyone so that Entitled Friend cannot start trying to play one of us off against the other.

Phew. I always feel better after speaking to her because she just cuts through the crap and tackles the problem. smile

bigTillyMint Wed 17-Apr-13 15:14:53

I <3 your forthright friendsmile

Manyofhorror3 Wed 17-Apr-13 15:18:38

Won't EntitledFriend see that as an Act of Hostility?

Sugarice Wed 17-Apr-13 15:19:13

I like the cut of your forthright mate's jib.

She is a goodun! wink

Delurking to echo everyone else, don't let her get away with it!

Are you going to tell FF about her well deserved new title? (maybe not best to tell EF about hers...)

jennywren45 Wed 17-Apr-13 15:22:46

Everyone needs a Forthright Friend.

I fear I am she, though.