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to think a funeral procession is no place for protests

(344 Posts)
kim147 Tue 09-Apr-13 20:17:15

Apparently the Met are fearing a security nightmare when Thatcher's funeral takes place. Protests along the way.

No matter what you thought of her, I don't think a funeral procession is an appropriate place for a protest.

landofsoapandglory Tue 09-Apr-13 20:19:22

I agree with you.

I did say to DS1(18) yesterday that I thought there would be protests at the funeral. I think it is hugely disrespectful TBH.

Mrsrobertduvall Tue 09-Apr-13 20:20:26

Totally agree.
Just shows what sort of people they are.

FacebookWanker Tue 09-Apr-13 20:21:00

Totally agree.

ParadiseChick Tue 09-Apr-13 20:21:24

If she's being laid to rest publicly, using public money then the whole thing runs the risk of pissing the public off.

BumpingFuglies Tue 09-Apr-13 20:21:53

Totally agree. But just wait till the haterz get here...

Depends on the individual funeral. Considering its Margaret Thatcher, I think it's completely justified and warranted and I would actively participate.

SarahAndFuck Tue 09-Apr-13 20:23:02

What would people be protesting about?

Something that she did in the 80's (bit late now) or something happening now which she has no involved in as she hasn't been in power for years (bit pointless)?

I am no fan of Margaret Thatcher but I really don't see what people would gain from a protest at her funeral. Genuinely, I don't see what people would gain.

Makes them no better than that Westboro lot.

delboysfileofax Tue 09-Apr-13 20:23:12

Make it a private funeral then. Job done

CloudsAndTrees Tue 09-Apr-13 20:24:09

You'd think it was obvious wouldn't you? People that can even contemplate demonstrating at a funeral are scum, and really need to get themselves a life.

flangledoodle Tue 09-Apr-13 20:24:38

If you spend public money on a ceremonial service during a recession on a deeply devisive figure, what do you expect??

Sarah, I imagine the fact that she is giving a ceremonial funeral, with public funds.

HollyBerryBush Tue 09-Apr-13 20:25:20

You know what I thought was really sad? She won't be with Dennis and they were devoted to each other.

Finola1step Tue 09-Apr-13 20:25:58

Why protest now? It's a bit late. If people want to protest at the current government, then go right on ahead. But not at someone's funeral.

kim147 Tue 09-Apr-13 20:27:01

I just think protests at a funeral are wrong.

flangledoodle Tue 09-Apr-13 20:27:11

I woiudn't say a protest, more of a celebration.

CloudsAndTrees Tue 09-Apr-13 20:28:08

Apparently people would be protesting about the ceremonial funeral and the money that was being spent.

Except by the time the funeral is happening, it's a bit late to bother voicing your opinion about it. And if you're worried about the cost, you really shouldn't be contributing to that by going to protest.

Just shows how thick some people really are.

ParadiseChick Tue 09-Apr-13 20:28:25

So why is she getting cremated after a ceremonial service when her wishes were apparently a private funeral and buried next to Dennis?

libertyflip Tue 09-Apr-13 20:28:27

She is gone, her children are alive. Funerals are for the grieving, any protests are beneath contempt in my opinion.

SarahAndFuck Tue 09-Apr-13 20:28:47

Then protest elsewhere, before the funeral, to try and stop those public funds being spent.

It's all a bit late during the funeral, because it's happening by then, and even more public funds are also being spent on managing and policing the protests.

ChristmasJubilee Tue 09-Apr-13 20:29:17

I don't agree with protests but the £8 million it's costing should be coming out of her estate not partly funded by the tax payer.

fluffypillow Tue 09-Apr-13 20:30:14

Agree with paradisechick .

I don't think people should protest, but she was a person that just as many people hated as loved.

Personally I thought she was a nasty woman who only cared about the rich, and trampled on the working class.

They are asking for trouble having such a public funeral.

Spending millions of pounds on a funeral at the monent is disgusting, especially when many, many people feel that she destroyed this country. They shouldn't be rubbing peoples noses in it.

They family should pay for her send off, not us.

YABVU

PetiteRaleuse Tue 09-Apr-13 20:31:16

I think given the context she should have a private funeral. Lots of people justifiably love her, but many others have perfectly valid reasons for hating what she did and what she stood for. I personally wouldn't protest at her funeral but maybe that's because my life wasn't as affected by her as others. I do think that spending masses if public money on it at a time when people are still suffering from what she and her government did is very distasteful.

ParadiseChick Tue 09-Apr-13 20:32:34

If it was a family occasion done without fuss, as the family wish then fine.

She's been given a hero's send off, one we've not seen since the queen mum and Diana. She was not a hero to many, many people.

Giving her this send of implies everyone thinks she was worthy of it. Not in my name.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

It's not the specific cost that bothers me its the fact they are willing to pay for it at all. Why does she even deserve a ceremonial funeral. She was hated. I have never encountered anyone who loved her.

Considering how short on money the country is, especially those who would have been her victims, I think it's horrendous and neither she or her family deserve any special treatment.

Bunbaker Tue 09-Apr-13 20:36:14

"Considering its Margaret Thatcher, I think it's completely justified and warranted and I would actively participate."

I wasn't a fan of MT either, but I would still find that distasteful, disrespectful and beneath contempt. It also says more about the type of person you are than about Margaret Thatcher.

If you want to protest at the use of public funds for her funeral (which I also think is wrong) then protest to the government. They made that decision.

landofsoapandglory Tue 09-Apr-13 20:36:23

I personally don't think any previous PM should be given a public funeral. I think they have had their time in office, they did their bit for the country, they didn't please all of us, got it right and wrong, and were either voted out or resigned. That should be the end of it.

I would hate Cameron, Brown or Blair to have a public funeral, and can understand why people don't want the money spent on Lady Thatcher's. I still think it would be wrong to protest at the funeral.

Bunbaker Tue 09-Apr-13 20:37:19

Incidentally, I live in South Yorkshire and was amazed to hear on radio Sheffield today how many supporters she has in this area.

flangledoodle Tue 09-Apr-13 20:38:41

People love to point out she was democratically elected. Well for those who are so happy to celebrate all that is good about democracy and freedom of speech it is our right to voice our feelings about this woman as our money is spent on this funeral.

PeaceandFUCKINGLove Tue 09-Apr-13 20:39:08

YABU. The public are paying so we can protest at it if we choose.

ParadiseChick Tue 09-Apr-13 20:39:11

Was it a local BBC station by any chance?

Jinsei Tue 09-Apr-13 20:39:35

I hated Thatcher and won't be shedding any tears on her passing. However, I agree that it's inappropriate to protest at her funeral as this will only hurt the friends and family she left behind. Sadly, I think the decision to give her a big ceremonial funeral has probably made the protests inevitable. It would have been much better to have let her loved ones say their farewells at a quieter private ceremony.

I really don't feel that a publicly funded funeral is appropriate for such a divisive figure. It is almost asking for trouble.

HollyBerryBush Tue 09-Apr-13 20:40:46

I saw this today.... and it was an angle I never thought of before.

"Thankyou Maggie Thatcher, for catalyzing the return of democracy in Argentina," wrote Andres Wolberg-Stok, who covered the war for the Buenos Aires Herald as a young reporter 31 years ago, on his Facebook account.

ParadiseChick Tue 09-Apr-13 20:42:48

I'm sure it will be of no surprise to her friends and family that she divided opinion.

I couldn't care less what you think that says about me Bunbaker, my youth was the Tatcher years, and she made parts of it bloody horrible for me and horrendous for my parents. She caused misery for millions, she doesn't deserve a wonderful funeral.

CloudsAndTrees Tue 09-Apr-13 20:49:13

Yes, it is paid for buy the public, the public can protest if the choose to do so and I would defend that right wholeheartedly.

It doesn't say much about the manners, morals or intelligence of our public if they choose to exercise their rights at a funeral though. What went on last night makes me ashamed of my fellow British citizens. It's very sad.

Yes, it is paid for buy the public, the public can protest if the choose to do so and I would defend that right wholeheartedly.

It doesn't say much about the manners, morals or intelligence of our public if they choose to exercise their rights at a funeral though. What went on last night makes me ashamed of my fellow British citizens. It's very sad.

I couldn't agree more, CloudsAndTrees.

Growlithe Tue 09-Apr-13 20:51:50

If I were her family I'd be desperate for the funeral not to be a public one, for this very reason. I wouldn't want any whiff of trouble at my mother's funeral. It doesn't have to be, she doesn't belong to the state.

And yet they are allowing it. Why?

ParadiseChick Tue 09-Apr-13 20:52:19

What part of doing so would be indicative of intelligence?

halcyondays Tue 09-Apr-13 20:59:04

Yes, but I also think they should give Maggie a small, private funeral, instead of spending a huge amount of taxpayer's money on it. I think it is totally inappropriate for someone so controversial. It's bound to turn the whole thing into a circus, which is hardly going to be of any comfort to her family.

DolomitesDonkey Tue 09-Apr-13 21:01:01

YANBU. But look at it this way, all these ghastly people are outing themselves as fools - it'll save you effort doing it for them.

LadyBeagleEyes Tue 09-Apr-13 21:03:24

So would all the protesters be really vile then?

hwjm1945 Tue 09-Apr-13 21:03:57

I dislike what seems to me to be mindless dislike and parrotting of opinions by many who know very little about what Thatcher did and its overall effects in the context of the time.....however I am surprised at the state funeral.I think the last PM to have one was Churchill, as the wartime PM this would have been understandable.do not understand why she is being accorded this and frankly would not be surprised were there to be protests at such a public event.

JakeBullet Tue 09-Apr-13 21:08:07

YANBU...no place for protests at all.

JakeBullet Tue 09-Apr-13 21:10:22

It's not a full state funeral though is it? It's a ceremonial funeral similar to Princess Diana and the Queen Mother.

I have no issue with it tbh, she was an iconic figure, the first female PM and I think her death needs official notice. Definitely not the event for protests.

flippinada Tue 09-Apr-13 21:14:29

A public funeral costing millions is completely inappropriate for such a divisive figure.

It's not as if the family can't afford to pay for one.

I wouldn't protest at a funeral and think it distasteful but under the circumstances I can understand the motivation for doing so.

herethereandeverywhere Tue 09-Apr-13 21:16:17

I have a couple of questions:

1) What % of the £8m is being funded by the taxpayer?
2) What else could £xm of public money buy? In terms of eg: additional midwives, support for disabled people, support of those living beneath the poverty line, community services such as day centres and libraries?

I don't want to shout, throw things and wave placards at Thatcher's funeral. I do want to register my disgust that she is being given such a "special" send off. Not all prime ministers get this, so why her? Why, especially at times when we are continuously being told to suck up cuts and increases in the cost of living because "we're all in this together"?

Any ideas how/where I'd find the info. about the cost of certain things paid for out of the public purse?

ifancyashandy Tue 09-Apr-13 21:17:41

Spend public money and expect a public reaction.

DonDrapersAltrEgoBigglesDraper Tue 09-Apr-13 21:18:16

I am no Thatcher fan, but the thought of protesting at a funeral is mind-boggling to me.

Petty doesn't even begin to describe it. Which is deeply unfortunate, because the impact she had on some communities was the antithesis of 'petty'.

But, the lower moral ground is there for the taking, and it seems that there will be plenty of people seizing it...

Apparently it was all organised under Gordon Browns leadership but she didn't want a full state funeral so it's been downgraded. i doubt the family have had much if a say in it TBH.

Whatever you think of her & what she did (over 30 years ago) she did it because she thought she was right and did it for her country. She has a place in history, wether one agreed with her or not.

Her funeral is NOT the time for protests or celebration and I despair that so many people are being so utterly vile.

flippinada Tue 09-Apr-13 21:18:35

I think you would need to put in a FOI request herethere

indyandlara Tue 09-Apr-13 21:18:38

Having a public, ceremonial funeral is the thing which is most inappropriate.

ParadiseChick Tue 09-Apr-13 21:22:47

But whether it was Brown or anyone else who decided she was worthy of a public pomp and circumstance send of isn't the point, it's apparently against her wishes.

Or is the baw hair of a difference between state and ceremonial enough?

AmberLeaf Tue 09-Apr-13 21:25:01

It is totally inappropriate and apparently not to her wishes, so yes, why are they doing it?

If I were either of her children I would not be allowing it.

It is obvious that there will be some form of protest, yet it is still going to happen.

Asking for trouble.

BumpingFuglies Tue 09-Apr-13 21:25:07

Protest against what? It's been and gone. I would no more turn up to "protest" at Mrs Thatcher's funeral than I would at anyone elses, no matter what I thought of them.

As others say, protest about the manner of the funeral if public funds are being used. Let those who wish to mourn have their time.

Far too many people jumping on bandwagons they do not understand.

AmberLeaf Tue 09-Apr-13 21:29:23

Far too many people jumping on bandwagons they do not understand

Far too much downplaying of the evil she did just because she is dead.

Growlithe Tue 09-Apr-13 21:29:51

The family were apparently planning it at a coordination meeting with Buck House this morning.

If I were her daughter I'd have said no.

sick0fants Tue 09-Apr-13 21:32:01

I agree with you kim

BumpingFuglies Tue 09-Apr-13 21:33:01

Amber that's not the same thing at all.

BumpingFuglies Tue 09-Apr-13 21:34:55

FTR I wasn't referring to MN jumping on bandwagons.

flangledoodle Tue 09-Apr-13 21:35:36

Hear, hear Amber.

AmberLeaf Tue 09-Apr-13 21:36:34

Bumping, I don't think people are jumping on bandwagons, do you mean those who are considered too young to be entitled to a say?

Thatcher is history, my 16 year old knows enough about her to hold his own in a discussion on her because he is interested in political history.

He has studied enough to form an opinion and has heard enough from older relatives also.

He'd probably be accused of jumping on the bandwagon too.

Perhaps the public contribution for her funeral can only come from active Tory constituencies during her reign... There, that settles it! smile

A public funeral is incredibly inappropriate.

I am actively seeking a way to protest in a useful and meaningful way and would love to hear suggestions (perhaps another thread...)

Iamsparklyknickers Tue 09-Apr-13 21:38:22

Funerals are no place imo for 'protest'.

Lets be clear about one thing though, MT's funeral will not attract true protests. Protests belong to a cause. This woman is out of power 18 years there is no cause, just bitterness. Those hanging their colours to cost issues are being dishonest (I'm sure there's the odd person who is truely angry at the cost), it's nothing but the wolves clothes to make their 'protest' relevant and slightly more socially acceptable. The armchair psychologist in me thinks they are working hard to make bombarding a funeral with bile acceptable to themselves.

To consider the scenario of the death of some evil mass murder/peadophile/rapist/genocidal dictator as the benchmark - my feelings remain the same. There is nothing joyful to take from a death. Ever. Relief, justice, ambiguity are all valid but to actually take pleasure? Displays an incredibly deep flaw and lack of appreciation of life with all those who participate. Case in point the Westborough Church.

In MT's case, I can't help but feel those who have bourne a grudge for decades are lacking in any awareness. I was only a child during her terms, but am more than up on why people blamed her for ruining there lives. Thing is you look back at the history books and her policies and influence generally make sense. No they weren't perfect, but we were not a nation that was offering up a lot of options for anyone in leadership. Regardless, it's history and has been for a long, long time. There have been countless opportunities for people to fix what they felt was wrong. It either hasn't happened because people haven't bothered, found themselves benefitting or they are backing the wrong side of a cause and can't accept they're in the wrong.

I would be incredibly interested for a journalist to profile a random cross section of some of these people- I would put very good money on a large percentage of them profiteering from the policies that were put in place during MT's office.

To hold a grudge since the 80's is impressive, but it's also ridiculous, meaningless and a shame.

30 years have passed and it's still all MT's fault?

Iamsparklyknickers Tue 09-Apr-13 21:40:13

dammit - I meant their!!! I'm not re reading again so take the flaws as you find them!

Well said SparklyKnickers

BumpingFuglies Tue 09-Apr-13 21:42:46

No, I'm talking about the twats drinking champagne in Trafalgar Square Amber and so on.

Joining in with popular opinion (which is what I think a lot of people are doing) is absolutely not the same as downplaying of the evil she did just because she is dead.

I'm not downplaying anything. Just objecting to the assumption that because people (including me) objected to many of her policies and political decisions, they have the right to disrupt her funeral.

CloudsAndTrees Tue 09-Apr-13 21:43:47

Good post sparklyknickers.

ParadiseChick Tue 09-Apr-13 21:43:51

Many areas have never recovered. It's still very real.

And I just want to highlight the poster above who stated "it's a bit late to start voicing it now"... You have no idea how, where or why people may have voiced their opposition to her policies over the years. People risked, and lost, their livelihoods, communities, way of life, even life itself to stand up for not just themselves but for others worse off than them.

Thatcher's passing has stirred up a lot of frustration and anger -this is recent history- and to even consider this kind of public send-off is disrespectful to the many, many communities, families and individuals who were the human cost of her policies.

flangledoodle Tue 09-Apr-13 21:47:11

Dreadful woman!

ChippingInIsEggceptional Tue 09-Apr-13 21:47:44

8 million - Really?? EIGHT MILLION - for a funeral?

and just to show my ignorance, why is she being cremated and not burried with Dennis?

flippinada Tue 09-Apr-13 21:55:23

I have no time for the woman alive or dead.

However, she was still a human beingand if she wanted a private funeral then that's what she should have.

An expensive funeral paid for out of funds is, to say the least, inappropriate.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KenDoddsDadsDog Tue 09-Apr-13 22:10:40

I would imagine she won't be buried because of the high risk of grave desecration.

herethereandeverywhere Tue 09-Apr-13 22:14:42

Thanks flippinada. I'm not going to get that before next Wednesday though, bummer.

flippinada Tue 09-Apr-13 22:17:17

I meant to say paid for out of public funds.

All in this together? I don't bloody think so!

Growlithe Tue 09-Apr-13 22:18:51

In MT's case, I can't help but feel those who have bourne a grudge for decades are lacking in any awareness.

My family were very badly off in Liverpool as a result of Thatcherism. But I'm not badly off now, and yet every time I start to forget, to let the grudge go, I can't. Not because I am lacking in awareness, quite the opposite in fact. It's because something hits the news that makes the grudge all the more justified - the planned 'managed decline' of Liverpool, the Hillsborough cover up, and the other vile cover ups that are hitting the news with alarming regularity.

It's the increased awareness that's keeping the grudge going, not the lack of it.

Strictly1 Tue 09-Apr-13 22:19:00

YANBU to protest at a funeral is shameful and says more about those protesting than the dead.

flippinada Tue 09-Apr-13 22:19:31

No, it'd take a while to get the information from a FOI herethere

Perhaps the cabinet could all chip in from their private fortunes, just to show a bit of public spirit?

thebody Tue 09-Apr-13 22:22:36

Just watched the need and am baffled!

I remember mrs thatcher as was a teenager in the early 80s and married with kids early 90s.

The 'demonstrators' looked about 20 so have no possible recollection or feeling for her at all. Pathetic little twats really.

I have never voted Tory!

QueenOfCats Tue 09-Apr-13 22:24:40

Yanbu. Protesting at funerals is low.

ImOnlyAsking Tue 09-Apr-13 22:32:19

Surely people have got better things to do than protest at a funeral for a public figure out of office for more than 20 years?

Growlithe Tue 09-Apr-13 22:34:40

I have heard a lot on here about the '20 year old' protesters at last nights parties. So I've just searched 'Thatcher Party' on google images and I've got to say with the exception of about 2 photos most of the people there seem to be my age and older, and I'm 44. confused

Latara Tue 09-Apr-13 22:57:51

I think that a private funeral would be far more appropriate (it's what she wanted anyway) than a funeral costing £8 million in the middle of a recession.

It shows exactly how out of touch the government is with reality.

I don't agree with protests at anyone's funeral; & i think that a public funeral is asking for trouble which will be horrible for her friends & family who are bereaved.

tiggytape Tue 09-Apr-13 23:05:13

It shows exactly how out of touch the government is with reality.

It wasn't this government's idea to have a public funeral. it was Labour's idea (Gordon Brown's in fact)

Fakebook Tue 09-Apr-13 23:05:57

I think even something simple like turning your back to her passing hearse will be a strong enough protest. I don't understand what protesting with banners and fists will achieve and the point of them?

timidviper Tue 09-Apr-13 23:15:02

This government love to blame Labour tiggy but would have no problem in overturning this if they wanted to. Incidentally I have read that Labour planned it at £3m, not £8m.

She should have a private funeral at her own expense. I'm not sure who is in favour of this ceremonial lark because it sounds like she wasn't and most of the public aren't either

JakeBullet Tue 09-Apr-13 23:16:08

Quite honestly the thought of possibly offensive banners at a funeral is horriblesad . ..whatever people's thoughts about her policies. Fact is that she hasn't been in a position of power for 20+ years

She was the first female PM and her death needs to be marked. Rightly or wrongly its a ceremonial funeral which her family will be attending. Out of compassion for MT's family the protesters should stay at home.

Iamsparklyknickers Tue 09-Apr-13 23:16:12

Growthlithe I meant an awareness of decorum more than the actual after effects of governments. (I'll also take the opportunity to apologisefor the spelling mistake you quoted smile)

I think Hillsborough is an excellent example of putting right something that was horribly covered up and needed putting right, I just don't believe that the majority of people partying and celebrating hold such causes so dearly they have spent the last couple of decades working hard to put them right. I believe there are a decent number of people who have good reason to look back on those years and declare them unjust and tell their side to balance out the usual flowery guff that follows someones passing. I just can't see any justification for the vulgar displays of Joy. Thatchers passsing in the grand scheme of things means nothing, her direct influence ended many years ago, a lot has happened since and nothing is magically going to change because she's dead.

People are behaving like thugs over the fact an 80+ year old lady had a stroke and died. That's it. Nobody won, behaving like Vikings just back from rampaging a village when they've done nothing triggers something inside of me that's quite close to revulsion tbh. It's bloodthirsty, and I think a little misdirected. The issues of the last 3 decades are being projected onto MT like it's some sort of mass lynching and it sits incredibly uncomfortably with me.

tiggytape Tue 09-Apr-13 23:30:51

This government love to blame Labour tiggy but would have no problem in overturning this if they wanted to

I don't think it is a blame thing. I don't think Labour arranged it out of any political reasons of course but just because it is 'the done thing'.
She was a world leader and the discussions they had at the time therefore concluded that a public (they actually agreed a state) funeral was necessary. If the Tories or Lib Dem had been in power in 2008 when the decision was made, I agree they would have reached the exact same decision.

The agreed figure was £3milliion when Labour discussed it a while ago - I am guessing security concerns are more of an issue now than perhaps was once anticipated so that will bump up costs and I don't know whether £3million or £8million were / are final figures. The family is contributing but of course (like the royal wedding) how much will not be disclosed.

M0naLisa Tue 09-Apr-13 23:33:33

As much as she was a nasty woman. It's her funeral and I would hate to see people behave in such atrocious ways at it. Personally I think it should be a private affair so things like the threats of rioting could be avoided.

DuelingFanjo Tue 09-Apr-13 23:36:03

Why not just give her a small funeral at the local cream then? If people protest then it is largely because of th nature of the funeral.

Growlithe Tue 09-Apr-13 23:37:54

Sorry Sparkly but I believe the majority of people partying in Liverpool do hold the cause of Hillsborough dear and have worked hard since the disaster and subsequent cover up in the public eye, and also support the families, standing 'shoulder to shoulder'. The families acknowledge this frequently. It's a 'mentality' a prominent Tory has famously mocked us for.

I'm sorry it offends, but she wasn't someone we could view with compassion, even in her last years. She's done so much to this city you'd be forgiven for thinking it a personal vendetta on her part. We've only come out the other side in the last few years with regeneration.

So you must forgive us if we aren't too respectful. They weren't to us in our grief.

Anyway, I don't think the 'Iron Lady' would thank us for our sympathy.

DuelingFanjo Tue 09-Apr-13 23:38:06

She is being burnt though, thankfully.

AmberLeaf Tue 09-Apr-13 23:42:30

It wasn't this government's idea to have a public funeral. it was Labour's idea

Oh yes, because the tories would have give her a small private send off wouldn't they?!

Get real, if this Gov didn't want it to happen like this, they would overturn the 2011 decision.

tiggytape Tue 09-Apr-13 23:48:09

Amber - no but it was always certain this would be a public funeral because of her status, length of service, involvement in world affairs and all the other things mentioned already. There was never any question it would be a private ceremony, it was just hammering out details back then.
It just so happened Labour was in power at the time it was formally agreed.

MiniTheMinx Tue 09-Apr-13 23:57:04

I thought she was in favour of privatisation.....make her family pay for it.

MiniTheMinx Tue 09-Apr-13 23:58:32

She being burnt......quite apt.

DuelingFanjo Tue 09-Apr-13 23:59:13

Is it really costing eight million?

Blu Wed 10-Apr-13 00:06:21

Jakebullet, actually I think her power has extended over the current generation in many many ways.

However I find the idea of partying in response to a death or protests at a funeral of a democratically elected politician to be shoddy.

I have no respects to pay do will splubtsle little notice.

MiniTheMinx Wed 10-Apr-13 00:18:20

oh, her ideas will live on, her ideas are lining the pockets of the rich, I see no reason why her death is anything to celebrate.

doubleshotespresso Wed 10-Apr-13 00:31:21

I've shocked to myself today, considering your post OP, I think in normal terms, yes protest at a funeral to be inappropriate.

However, in this instance, I believe the public have every right to make an exception. In fact I cannot think of a more fitting way for Thatcher to be remembered than a large-scale and public protest....

Darkesteyes Wed 10-Apr-13 00:35:25

Exactly Mini. Thatcher is dead but Thatcherism lives on. Now the end of Thatcherism WOULD be something to celebrate.

IloveJudgeJudy Wed 10-Apr-13 00:36:06

On the radio this morning, it was reported that the family would be paying for the funeral.

I agree with the OP that the funeral is no place for protests. Also, she has not been running the country for over 20 years so if things are still bad, it cannot be her fault still.

Perhaps some people on here don't remember the state of Britain before she came to power. There was a three-day week, the unions did run the country, Britain was the "sick man" of Europe, there was rubbish in the streets, dead bodies piling up in places other than the morgues as they were all full.

She was a world-renowned figure. We have not had many of those. That is why she is having a ceremonial funeral. She certainly deserves one.

doubleshotespresso Wed 10-Apr-13 01:05:03

Ilovejudgejudy (name made me smile thanks!).

Yes I do remember the state of the country prior o MT coming to power. Great shape no. Her cut-throat approach and utter disregard for the most significant chunk of the voting public was though eyeball popping lay arrogant and ill advised. Her entire cabinet turned on her as they knew thy were aboard a sinking ship. She left the country with devastating consequences of her policies, so yes 20 years on they are still very evident. And she certainly failed to improve many problems, indeed causing many more for the UK.

Finally, being "world renowned" surely does not guarantee a state funeral? You can be renowned not only for great achievements.I'd say we urgently ave way more irritant things to spend £8million on currently...... The funeral costs are according to several broadsheets and bbcnews coming from the public purse....

I'd like to think she will t least teach us the lesson that greed is not always good .

AmberLeaf Wed 10-Apr-13 01:11:18

Perhaps some people on here don't remember the state of Britain before she came to power. There was a three-day week, the unions did run the country, Britain was the "sick man" of Europe, there was rubbish in the streets, dead bodies piling up in places other than the morgues as they were all full

I was born in the early 70s so I don't really remember that time, however I have been talking about it a lot with my Dad since yesterday and his recollection of that time is certainly not as bad as people are making out.
He was a working class low skilled worker.

You say all of that as though that's how it was all the time, which is of course bollocks.

Also, she has not been running the country for over 20 years so if things are still bad, it cannot be her fault still

See this is the bit I don't get, people bang on about all the things she did that had an everlasting [good] effect on the world, yet they are saying all the bad stuff disappeared with a pooff when she was kicked out? really?

Her wrongdoing lives on. if you think otherwise then you are a fool.

Slurpling Wed 10-Apr-13 01:11:39

if I had the time and money I would protest the fact that money that could be feeding, clothing, and burying the poorest is being wasted on her.

doubleshotespresso Wed 10-Apr-13 01:14:53

Amber leaf - spot on.

AmberLeaf Wed 10-Apr-13 01:19:46

Thank you doubleshotespresso!

doubleshotespresso Wed 10-Apr-13 01:29:25

Perhaps this would suit everyone?

A friend emailed a picture earlier, with the caption "Iron lady, may she RUST IN PEACE"

Darkesteyes Wed 10-Apr-13 01:57:24

Just caught up with yesterdays (tuesdays) This Morning. David Mellor made some derogatory remarks about how football fans behaved in the 80s when they moved on to the subject of Hillsborough. Owen Jones was there to dispute it but tory Mps making remarks like this wont help matters.

Darkesteyes Wed 10-Apr-13 01:59:13

Amberleaf i was born in the early 70s but DH is a lot older than me and he says things in the 70s were nowhere near as bad as certain quarters are trying to make out.

Longdistance Wed 10-Apr-13 01:59:27

Well to those who think it's ok to protest at someone's funeral, who's a mother and grandmother, I hope no one protests are your mothers funeral.
Disgusting behavior and no need for it.

Darkesteyes Wed 10-Apr-13 02:11:40

Amberleaf this is a post of mine from a thread a few months ago. It was in response to someone who was saying how much harder it was in the 70s to now DH told me this. It is his experience.

DarkesteyesSun 03-Feb-13 00:43:41

Eliza ive just asked my almost 63 yr old DH (hes a baby boomer too but without the baby boomer attitude)
He says it was better in the 70s that is now and that it was easier then because he was doing 3 12 hr days so that was 36 hrs in 3 days and then the other 2 days they used a generator which was shared between 3 small factories (note the lack of "im alright jack" here.) this was shared between 360 employees between the three sites. Food and drink was laid on for the employees FREE. In the circumstances ive described here from DH he says it was easier then BECAUSE THERE WAS WORK and you could finish in one factory one day and start in another the next day even with this 3 day week.
While this was all going on they were given fuel ration cards but you only had to mention where you worked to the garage and they guaranteed you would have the fuel.
All these companies ive mentioned were looking out for each other. DH says it was easier back then that it is now. (fuel ration cards they were given didnt even have to be used. Can you imagine that kind of selflessness happening now? Ha. Not by some of the attitudes ive seen on here!
Within this ten mile radius there were 7 contract firms which did the work for the bigger companies.
Now they would be fighting each other for contracts but back then they simply helped each other out with steel,materials etc which never got delivered because of the shortage of fuel.
Eliza DH has just said it was a completely different world back then so it cant be compared.
And they got paid OVERTIME RATE even on the 3 day week.

doubleshotespresso Wed 10-Apr-13 02:13:53

Long distance. You seem to miss the point. My mother did not send the order to blow up a submarine outside controlled waters, neither did she inflict misery and poverty on the very people who were supposed to under her leadership. Oh and my brother didn't go gun-running or "lost" in the Sahara needing specialised troops sending by mummy to rescue him.

Mother and a grandmother? Maybe she could have considered that bore the Falklands.

For the record, her son has not visited his mother in 8 weeks, Her daughter over a month ago. Are you seriously suggesting I consider their feelings whilst they're disturbed in Marbella and Klosters? Give me a break. The staff at the Ritz confirmed today that MT's children rarely visited. I'd say that's disgusting.

I think we are all agreed protesting at a funeral is pretty disgusting, which is why it s so befitting someone who consistently ignored better advice in the name of feeding the greed and ego of herself and her peers. Whilst the rest of us were not given a second thought.

And if the family were that concerned she have a dignified funeral, why not make it private? Once an event is made public, it clearly attracts comment, opinion and in this instance yes, quite understandably a reaction.

doubleshotespresso Wed 10-Apr-13 02:37:36

[hmmm]

ParadiseChick Wed 10-Apr-13 07:05:32

It must be bad, parliament has been recalled to 'remember' her.

I'd be saying fuck off and finishing my holiday!

catgirl1976 Wed 10-Apr-13 07:35:49

I am no fan of MT

But protesting at a funeral puts you in a bracket with the Westboro Baptists IMO

I can understand people being angry about the scale and type of funeral, but still, have a bit of dignity

lecce Wed 10-Apr-13 07:57:51

If it is being paid for from public funds then it is clearly going to attract public protests. Anyone who staged some sort of protest at a private funeral would be beyond contempt, but this is different. Her famly should hold the ceremony in private at their own expense and then none of this would even be an issue.

I find all these sanctimonious comments about her grieving family quite hard to take when I recall who her offspring are and how they have conducted themselves over the years.

Ultimately, she showed very little respect for most of the country's population during her time in office - you reap what what you sow and all that...

It is ironic that so many people on here are banging on about how 'vile' people are and how we should consider the feelings of her family in support of the woman who felt there was 'no such thing as society'.

When we have a PM who has described her as the greatest peacetime PM we have had, showing blatant disregard for the views of so many, and decides to go ahead with spending a big chunk of public funds on her send-off, people feel impotent, unheard and disempowered. They look for a way to make their views known and I hope they find one.

As for the patronising comments about people being too young to know what she was really like, well, everyday we see ignorant and ill-informed comments about what is going on in the world now from people currently alive. Simply being there is no guarantee of understanding something and being qualified to make an intelligent analysis of it.

Fanjounchained Wed 10-Apr-13 08:02:15

Amberleaf - See this is the bit I don't get, people bang on about all the things she did that had an everlasting [good] effect on the world, yet they are saying all the bad stuff disappeared with a pooff when she was kicked out? really?

Excellent point .....

Not a penny of public money should be spent on her funeral but that is not the OP's question. I am about as far removed from being a supporter of MT as you could get, but I do not think that protests at her funeral would be appropriate. If only because it would give the likes of the Daily Mail even more ammunition to bang on about the disgusting, disrespectful Left or anyone basically who strongly disagreed with what she stood for.

lecce Wed 10-Apr-13 08:04:28

I don't give a flying fuck what the Daily Mail say about it grin.

AmberLeaf Wed 10-Apr-13 10:14:17

longdistance
No one would want to protest at my Mothers funeral though would they. Moot point.

Darkesteyes yeah that sounds about right, My Dad says similar.

lecce good post.

Dawndonna Wed 10-Apr-13 10:22:52

But protesting at a funeral puts you in a bracket with the Westboro Baptists IMO
Nonsense!

CloudsAndTrees Wed 10-Apr-13 10:24:30

It's ridiculous that people are trying to justify protests at a funeral because of the fact that it is being paid for from public funds.

People have strong feelings about abortion, which is often paid for out of public funds. That doesn't stop the people who stand outside clinics 'protesting' from being scummy horrible people who deserve very little respect.

As has been shown on a thread recently, plenty of people don't agree with IVF on the NHS, but it would take a special kind of arsehole to stand outside fertility clinics 'protesting'.

Certain people on MN seem to want it both ways. Anyone who wants to publicly disagree with public funds being spent on benefits is a DM reading cunt, yet public funds is used as a great excuse for protesting at someone's funeral.

Dawndonna Wed 10-Apr-13 10:29:46

I have already said Clouds that the people making the most noise about respect for Thatcher are those that make the most noise about the deserving and undeserving poor. Thank you for proving my point.

CloudsAndTrees Wed 10-Apr-13 10:35:29

I'm not asking anyone to respect Thatcher.

If someone wants to go to a funeral and stand outside it shouting and making a fuss for no good reason, it's their own respect they have lost.

It is quite simply, a pathetic thing to do, and anyone who does do it is showing themselves to be an idiot.

FasterStronger Wed 10-Apr-13 11:13:22

what can you protest about at the funeral of an 87 yo women with dementia?

that you don't like her? don't like what she stood for?

she is dead. probably best focus on the people who are living.

AmberLeaf Wed 10-Apr-13 11:14:09

Anyone who wants to publicly disagree with public funds being spent on benefits is a DM reading cunt, yet public funds is used as a great excuse for protesting at someone's funeral

Difference being, benefits help people with nothing...but public funds being spent on the funeral of a very rich woman with a very rich family at a time when the most vulnerable in society are being left to rot is just obscene.

I suppose it is entirely fitting for Mrs 'no such thing as society' thatcher though.

Dawndonna Wed 10-Apr-13 11:18:17

It is beyond me that anyone could possibly have thought that this would be a vehicle for protests. Even she saw that, which is why she didn't want a state funeral, and I suspect why Gordon Brown did!

Dawndonna Wed 10-Apr-13 11:19:46

aaargh I hate that we can't correct and that I forget to proof read.
It is beyond me that anyone could possibly have thought that this would be a vehicle for anything other than protests
Apologies for not making sense above.

CloudsAndTrees Wed 10-Apr-13 11:20:11

That's not a difference that give any weight at all to the argument that protesting at a funeral is ok because it is being old for from public funds.

Nothing will change by protesting on the day. It will just make the costs higher.

Protest on the Saturday before the funeral if you want to protest, but by protesting on the day, you are just pissing all over any point you may have had.

CloudsAndTrees Wed 10-Apr-13 11:21:27

Dawndonna, you are right. Expecting manners and decency from all members of our society was always going to be too much to hope for.

thebody Wed 10-Apr-13 11:22:29

My 13 year old dd watched the news lady night and remarked how nasty was it to hold a party marking the death if an old lady. Well said.

What really gets me mad is the age of the rioters.

They don't even remember the osmands let alone maggie.

Dawndonna Wed 10-Apr-13 11:24:12

As for those saying that it's pathetic. Well we could say the same as you, we could say that it's pathetic that you are the first to have a pop at those on benefits whilst a ridiculous amount is being spent on Trident. We could say that it's pathetic that you support a government that is not paying off a debt, that listens to nobody in Europe and is heading for a triple dip recession. Ad infinitum.
People will protest. Understandably so. Even if, as has been mooted, the family pay for the funeral, people will object to the amount of very public mourning. To seeing their politicians seemingly respect and support the very essence of 'rich get rich and poor get poorer'. The person who started the dismantling of the NHS.

CloudsAndTrees Wed 10-Apr-13 11:30:43

Yes, you could say those things are pathetic. A major difference is that when I air my views that disagree with yours Dawndonna, I am doing so on a forum that is designed for civilised discussion. As much as you might not like those views, they are being expressed in an appropriate way.

If I were standing outside the job centre shouting my views and holding placards, you would be right to think I was being a twat, and being completely inappropriate.

However valid a point may be, it is reduced to next to nothing if it is expressed in the wrong way. Protesting at a funeral will do nothing for your case. You may get a weird sense of satisfaction out of it, and solidarity from other people who share your POV, but everyone else will just think it's stupidity. The point you are making will not be heard by those that may need to hear it, because you are expressing it in such a rude, inappropriate way.

doubleshotespresso Wed 10-Apr-13 11:45:52

thebody I've no idea about the age of protesters outside London, but I have to tell you that those in Brixton were largely in of the 40 + age bracket (i guess original poll tax rioters?) and no I didn't agree with the party, but there were few there under 35.....

Cloudsandtrees nice tone towards Dawndonna, she is allowed to actually disagree with you on here. Civilised is hardly a word that can ever be attributed to Thatcher, in life or in death at a publicly funded funeral.

Dawndonna Wed 10-Apr-13 11:54:56

Clouds I disagree. I think it may give more than a sense of solidarity, I think it may give this unelected coalition the kick up the backside it needs.
Personally, I will not be protesting, physically. I have my caring duties, but I stand, metaphorically, with those that do.

doubleshot Thank you! smile

thebody Wed 10-Apr-13 12:01:11

Double, I wasn't in Brixton so only watched it on the news and the average age was around 23 or so. My oldest sons age.

One or two looked 40 but literally just those few.

Growlithe Wed 10-Apr-13 12:01:52

Why parade the coffin of an old woman through the streets of London anyway? For the pomp and circumstance? Call that dignity?

Tell you what, if this was Gordon Brown's idea, he's pulled a blinder and must be laughing his head off just now.

Growlithe Wed 10-Apr-13 12:07:38

thebody ahh, you only watched it on the telly. That would be the edited highlights then. As I said up thread you need to search 'Thatcher Party' on google images. Then will get a true idea of the age range of the people out.

CloudsAndTrees Wed 10-Apr-13 12:10:10

Cloudsandtrees nice tone towards Dawndonna, she is allowed to actually disagree with you on here

I'm aware of that thanks, Dawndonna and I disagree regularly! I'm really not sure what you think is wrong with my tone, but I can assure you, I have no animosity towards Dawndonna and have a lot of respect for the vast majority of her views.

Dawndonna, fair enough, but I really don't think it will give the coalition a kick up the backside. I think it will give them even more reason to disassociate themselves from the people who are likely to protest, give them valid reason to give those people little respect, and it will give them the support of a large number of people. There are a lot of socialists, left wingers and life long labour voters that strongly disagree with protests at a funeral, no matter whose it is, and the government will harness that.

thebody Wed 10-Apr-13 12:37:17

I will grow thanks for that.

However I don't need to google her time as a PM as I was 15 in 1979 so remember the 80s well as a young adult and mother.

As I imagine you do too.

LadyBeagleEyes Wed 10-Apr-13 12:48:26

Peaceful protest is the democratic right of all British citizens.
It's actually quite worrying that there's so many people that want to stifle that.
It doesn't have to come down to riots in the streets.

thebody Wed 10-Apr-13 12:55:18

Yes agree, wasn't it Tony Blaire who had people arrested for peacefully protesting against the Chinese leader?

LadyBeagleEyes Wed 10-Apr-13 12:58:23

I'm starting to think of Kim Jong's (right name?) funeral last year when the entire population had to be seen to be crying during his funeral.
OK a bit of an exaggeration, but really, no one is allowed to show any dissent at all on the route?
I think that POV is rather worrying.

CloudsAndTrees Wed 10-Apr-13 13:04:38

No one is trying to stifle peaceful protest hmm

The point is that there is a time and a place for protesting, a funeral isn't it.

As I've already said somewhere, it is distasteful to peacefully protest about abortion outside abortion clinics where there are people in a vulnerable state. It is distasteful to peacefully protest about benefits outside the job centre where there are people struggling. It is equally distasteful to peacefully protest at a funeral where there are mourners.

Add to the the fact that the protesting is unlikely to be completely peaceful, and it is understandable that people are concerned. The world will be watching that day, I really don't want the thing they see to be people who are rude, disrespectful, and completely misguided.

Darkesteyes Wed 10-Apr-13 13:06:34

Woman fined £745 for voicing dissent against David Cameron. People have been fined less for drunk driving.

brightgreenscotland.org/index.php/2013/03/we-must-not-ignore-the-cameron-governments-attack-on-disabled-people/

tiggytape Wed 10-Apr-13 13:09:13

It doesn't have to come down to riots in the streets.

It often does though - especially in London.
Most recent protests here have been marred by people who aren't 'real' protestors. Interviees on London news complain that their cause is being ruined by people who just turn up to throw bottles at the police. They want to distance themselves from the brick chuckers and point out they they themselves are only there to carry banners and march quietly.
It still attracts trouble though and with the Queen in attendance and terrorist fears, I don't suppose they will take any chances.

LadyBeagleEyes Wed 10-Apr-13 13:13:32

Yes it is extremely distasteful to demonstrate outside abortion clinics.
But it is allowed under our current laws.
Whether you agree or not, we still have the right in this country to do it.
I'd be extremely worried if we didn't.
And that also goes for Thatcher's very public funeral.

Growlithe Wed 10-Apr-13 13:13:33

thebody that would make you four years older than me. And yes, I do remember the 80s. And I remember Thatcher crushing the hope of many people I knew. And I see it happening again with this government.

And if there are protests on this day, they won't be protests against a little old lady. They will be protests against a woman who ruined the livelihoods of many ordinary families, and a current government intent on doing the same, whilst going even further by targeting the vulnerable, such as the disabled.

She made herself a figurehead, and if David Cameron cannot see it is the wrong time to glorify this particular part of our recent history, then I really question his judgement.

tiggytape Wed 10-Apr-13 13:17:50

if David Cameron cannot see it is the wrong time to glorify this particular part of our recent history, then I really question his judgement.

I think this has been pointed out a lot but it wasn't Cameron's decision. The public funeral was planned by the last Labour Government with input from Thatcher's family and the Queen.

Growlithe Wed 10-Apr-13 13:22:54

tiggy that would be before austerity measures being put in place by this current government. Can't they see how the public mood could have changed?

MiniTheMinx Wed 10-Apr-13 13:23:56

Some of the protesters probably were not alive during Thatcher's reign however those young people on the left who have done their homework will be aware of her legacy. They will be aware of the cultural, social and economic legacy of NEO-LIBERALISM. Thatcher released the equivalent of a deadly virus into the world. She changed the way people think, she led the way to the privatisation of not just whole industries but to health, education and welfare. She led the way to further imperialist corporatist capitalism, that has resulted in outsourcing, stagnating wages set against higher productivity, high unemployment and increasing welfare need. The exploitation of developing countries and the forced indebtedness of these countries to the first world. She is responsible for thousands dead in Chile, to further the interests of private businesses.

The ideas of the economists she sought advice from were trained and paid for with American corporate money, look up Chicago boys and the Mount peralin society, these ideas are the ideas of a ruling elite who sought to impoverish the many for the profit of the few. That is her legacy and it isn't something worth celebrating. She believed there was no such thing as society, so a more fitting send off would be a private affair paid for from her estate.

Ullena Wed 10-Apr-13 13:25:37

Does anyone really think that the sort of people who protest at a public funeral would not still protest at a small private funeral? Of course they would still protest - but they would outnumber everyone else there and the likelihood is that it would end in atrocity. Because that is what humans do. They have proven this consistently for millenia.

CloudsAndTrees Wed 10-Apr-13 13:25:41

I'd be extremely worried if we didn't have the right to peaceful protest too, but that is spectacularly missing the point.

We don't have to do something just because we have the right to do it. Having a right to do something doesn't mean it's a good, positive thing to do. We have the right to gamble the home our children live in if we want to, we have the right to drink two bottles of wine a day as long as we can afford it.

We have plenty of rights, but we also have a responsibility to exercise them wisely.

tiggytape Wed 10-Apr-13 13:26:25

Well it was decided by Labour 2008-2011 so in harsh economic times. When it was decided, we weren't in full austerity mode although most knew it was coming but then we didn't have spare money to spend either. It wasn't a party political or financial decision. It was a protocol decision. It is what is expected when an important leader dies so money and the fact she wasn't a Labour leader didn't come into it even then.

LadyBeagleEyes Wed 10-Apr-13 13:30:58

How many times are you going to repeat that on these MT threads Tiggy?
Yes, I've got the message.
IMO whoever made this decision was wrong.
A private funeral, followed by a special Memorial Service later in the year, for all the world leaders to attend would have been the most fitting IMO.

Bibs123 Wed 10-Apr-13 13:31:28

I bet any protests will be stamped out by a massive police presence - at the cost of the tax-payer, I find it very distastful in the current economic climate. Especially for someone who has been out of the public eye for so long and is hated by so many.

Growlithe Wed 10-Apr-13 13:36:21

Protocol or not, it is the wrong time to create a highly publicised sitting duck, slap bang in the middle of London. It is madness.

tiggytape Wed 10-Apr-13 13:40:47

Lady - sorry for the repetition. It is just compeltely inaccurate for some to portray this as the Tories looking after their one of their own. It is nothing to do with party politics. The Queen wouldn't attend if it was about supporting a Tory - she is completely non-political. It is a public funeral for reasons that are nothing to do with party politics.

Grow - I think the Royal Wedding, Olympics and Jubilee had similar 'sitting duck' concerns last year but they still went ahead. There are security pmeasures in place for such events so I assume they know what they're doing.

Darkesteyes Wed 10-Apr-13 13:41:10

tiggytapeWed 10-Apr-13 13:17:50

if David Cameron cannot see it is the wrong time to glorify this particular part of our recent history, then I really question his judgement.

I think this has been pointed out a lot but it wasn't Cameron's decision. The public funeral was planned by the last Labour Government with input from Thatcher's family and the Queen

And the Government in now could have overturned that decision. After all they have had no problem with overturning other decisions.

Growlithe Wed 10-Apr-13 13:46:50

The Royal Wedding, Olympics and Jubilee were all times of celebration, created to lift the mood of the nation. Thatcher herself used Royal Weddings, didn't she?

This event is different.

WhizzforAtomms Wed 10-Apr-13 13:52:28

YABU. By making this a public event paid for from the public purse, they have forfeited their right to ask the public to stay away and not mark is as we think appropriate.

ComposHat Wed 10-Apr-13 13:55:24

if it was a private funeral I would agree but this isn't it is a public funded funeral to commemorate a partial political figure who left a divisive legacy.

doubleshotespresso Wed 10-Apr-13 14:34:23

Growlithe your posts are making real sense to me..... This funeral being allowed such prominence is really deeply offensive.

And anybody who thinks the average age of protesters in Brixton as early twenties is sorely mistaken. I unwittingly got caught up on my way out of the tube, and was really shocked at the mature age group, and it took an hour to get to my appointment in Clapham, usually minutes away!

Bibs123 ditto

doubleshotespresso Wed 10-Apr-13 14:37:08

Exactly what WhizzforAtoms said

boxershorts Wed 10-Apr-13 15:18:10

Thatcher it wud be a lie for everyone to pretend they liked her alive or dead. the good she did will die with her. The evel stays. (Respected quip)

boxershorts Wed 10-Apr-13 15:19:23

she was a sort of dictator ditcher by her own ministers.

boxershorts Wed 10-Apr-13 15:21:11

If your a Tory you will proably like Thatch she waqs elected by 22 per cent of the total electorate

WhizzforAtomms Wed 10-Apr-13 15:22:22

Those criticising the bad taste of protests have their work cut out for them defending an £8 million Falklands-themed funeral - Independent article today: Margaret Thatcher?s funeral will have a Falklands War theme, Downing Street announces

This would be farcical if it wasn't so repugnant.

For those saying we shouldn't be on the streets protesting, this is why I will be.

We are weary of having our airwaves and other media filled with eulogies that don't represent how we feel about this woman's legacy.

We're going to have to suffer another week of this rose-tinted revisionism and then a grand publicly-funded funeral.

She wasn't just someone's grandmother who had dementia and passed away leaving little imprint on those outside her close family.

And she wasn't merely "divisive" or "like marmite" - she was absolutely hated and despised by 1000's with very good reason.

Calls for respect from those who were lucky enough to not suffer the devastation of her policies are not going to work. We won't allow history to be rewritten to silence the critics of Thatcher and Thatcherism.

boxershorts Wed 10-Apr-13 15:22:40

Mini myth. Their parents and gparent would be alive.

boxershorts Wed 10-Apr-13 15:23:32

well said Whizz

sosooootired Wed 10-Apr-13 15:27:41

gosh even the dailymail - yes i just went there - is stirring things up by stating funeral cost is £10m and all 650 MPs can claim upto £3,750 expenses to return to london for the funeral angry angry

catgirl1976 Wed 10-Apr-13 15:29:44

I expect this has been linked to already but I thought it was very good

WhizzforAtomms Wed 10-Apr-13 15:35:49

I wonder if they considered a miners- strike-theme or a pro-apartheid-theme before finally settling on a celebration of the 1000 unnecessary deaths Thatcher was responsible for.

Apologies sosooootired, I didn't realise the estimated costs had gone up to £10 million plus. What the hey, we can afford it right?

LadyBeagleEyes Wed 10-Apr-13 15:39:23

A Halklands 'theme'.
Shall they have a burning effigy of the Belgrano?
And how about a flock of sheep?
Shit, we really need Danny Boyle on this one.

LadyBeagleEyes Wed 10-Apr-13 15:39:36

*Falklands

WhizzforAtomms Wed 10-Apr-13 15:39:57

Maybe we can mark some of her other finest moments next Wednesday - a recreation of the Poll Tax riots with the riot police on milk floats perhaps.

aufaniae Wed 10-Apr-13 15:39:58

This article by Glenn Greenwald puts it better than I can:

Margaret Thatcher and misapplied death etiquette

"This demand and for respectful silence in the wake of a public figure's death is not just misguided but dangerous. That one should not speak ill of the dead is arguably appropriate when a private person dies, but it is wildly inappropriate for the death of a controversial public figure, particularly one who wielded significant influence and political power. "Respecting the grief" of Thatcher's family members is appropriate if one is friends with them or attends a wake they organize, but the protocols are fundamentally different when it comes to public discourse about the person's life and political acts ...

"But the key point is this: those who admire the deceased public figure (and their politics) aren't silent at all. They are aggressively exploiting the emotions generated by the person's death to create hagiography.

"Typifying these highly dubious claims about Thatcher was this (appropriately diplomatic) statement from President Obama: "The world has lost one of the great champions of freedom and liberty, and America has lost a true friend." Those gushing depictions can be quite consequential, as it was for the week-long tidal wave of unbroken reverence that was heaped on Ronald Reagan upon his death, an episode that to this day shapes how Americans view him and the political ideas he symbolized.

"Demanding that no criticisms be voiced to counter that hagiography is to enable false history and a propagandistic whitewashing of bad acts, distortions that become quickly ossified and then endure by virtue of no opposition and the powerful emotions created by death. When a political leader dies, it is irresponsible in the extreme to demand that only praise be permitted but not criticisms.

"Whatever else may be true of her, Thatcher engaged in incredibly consequential acts that affected millions of people around the world. She played a key role not only in bringing about the first Gulf War but also using her influence to publicly advocate for the 2003 attack on Iraq. She denounced Nelson Mandela and his ANC as "terrorists", something even David Cameron ultimately admitted was wrong. She was a steadfast friend to brutal tyrants such as Augusto Pinochet, Saddam Hussein and Indonesian dictator General Suharto ("One of our very best and most valuable friends"). And as my Guardian colleague Seumas Milne detailed last year, "across Britain Thatcher is still hated for the damage she inflicted – and for her political legacy of rampant inequality and greed, privatisation and social breakdown."

"To demand that all of that be ignored in the face of one-sided requiems to her nobility and greatness is a bit bullying and tyrannical, not to mention warped. As David Wearing put it this morning in satirizing these speak-no-ill-of-the-deceased moralists: "People praising Thatcher's legacy should show some respect for her victims. Tasteless." Tellingly, few people have trouble understanding the need for balanced commentary when the political leaders disliked by the west pass away. Here, for instance, was what the Guardian reported upon the death last month of Hugo Chavez:

"To the millions who detested him as a thug and charlatan, it will be occasion to bid, vocally or discreetly, good riddance."

"Nobody, at least that I know of, objected to that observation on the ground that it was disrespectful to the ability of the Chavez family to mourn in peace. Any such objections would have been invalid. It was perfectly justified to note that, particularly as the Guardian also explained that "to the millions who revered him – a third of the country, according to some polls – a messiah has fallen, and their grief will be visceral." Chavez was indeed a divisive and controversial figure, and it would have been reckless to conceal that fact out of some misplaced deference to the grief of his family and supporters. He was a political and historical figure and the need to accurately portray his legacy and prevent misleading hagiography easily outweighed precepts of death etiquette that prevail when a private person dies.

"Exactly the same is true of Thatcher. There's something distinctively creepy - in a Roman sort of way - about this mandated ritual that our political leaders must be heralded and consecrated as saints upon death. This is accomplished by this baseless moral precept that it is gauche or worse to balance the gushing praise for them upon death with valid criticisms.

"There is absolutely nothing wrong with loathing Margaret Thatcher or any other person with political influence and power based upon perceived bad acts, and that doesn't change simply because they die. If anything, it becomes more compelling to commemorate those bad acts upon death as the only antidote against a society erecting a false and jingoistically self-serving history."

kim147 Wed 10-Apr-13 15:40:42

I think people and politicians are more than aware of how Thatcher is seen by some people. I know her legacy lives on in certain areas and in some people's lives.

That said - it is a funeral. You can line the route or just not go and show disinterest. But to hold protests which will cause a massive security headache during the procession - well it just seems wrong.

She's dead. In the end she was a lonely old lady who had dementia and died of a stroke. Not a nice way to go.

aufaniae Wed 10-Apr-13 15:42:51

If her family had arranged a private funeral then you might have had a point, OP. But if my money and yours is paying for this, especially in a time when Thatcher's political ancestors are literally putting disabled people and children onto the streets in the name of austerity, then damn right we should be able to voice our objections if we feel strongly about it.

kim147 Wed 10-Apr-13 15:46:06

How do you define "voice our objections"?

Would it be ok to hold street demonstrations near the cortege and shout out when her coffin goes by?

aufaniae Wed 10-Apr-13 15:47:27

I like Ken Loach's take on it:

"How should we honour her? Let's privatize her funeral. Put it out to competitive tender and accept the cheapest bid. It's what she would have wanted."

Dawndonna Wed 10-Apr-13 15:48:49

If you put yourself in the public domain, Kim then you take what comes.
I do think that this is Gordon Brown's revenge, he must have known what would happen.

WhizzforAtomms Wed 10-Apr-13 15:55:48

The most significant difference between what they have planned and an official 'state funeral' that I can see, is that the Government didn't have to win a debate in parliament for this pantomime - silencing MPs debate.

Kim147 - you don't get to tell the rest of us how to protest. We will do as we see fit. Those who think it is in bad taste and disrespectful but don't object to a war-themed funeral, need to look closer to home.

aufaniae Wed 10-Apr-13 15:56:28

"Would it be ok to hold street demonstrations near the cortege and shout out when her coffin goes by?"

Yes I think this would be absolutely acceptable in these circumstances.

The rest of the world should not think that we as a nation are mourning the death of Thatcher. It would be totally irresponsible to let a public funeral happen without protest IMO.

Again from the article above as he says it so well:

"Demanding that no criticisms be voiced ... is to enable false history and a propagandistic whitewashing of bad acts, distortions that become quickly ossified and then endure by virtue of no opposition and the powerful emotions created by death. When a political leader dies, it is irresponsible in the extreme to demand that only praise be permitted but not criticisms.

"Whatever else may be true of her, Thatcher engaged in incredibly consequential acts that affected millions of people around the world. ... across Britain Thatcher is still hated for the damage she inflicted – and for her political legacy of rampant inequality and greed, privatisation and social breakdown."

"To demand that all of that be ignored in the face of one-sided requiems to her nobility and greatness is a bit bullying and tyrannical, not to mention warped. As David Wearing put it this morning in satirizing these speak-no-ill-of-the-deceased moralists: "People praising Thatcher's legacy should show some respect for her victims. Tasteless"."

kim147 Wed 10-Apr-13 16:01:45

whizzforatoms
I'm not telling anyone what they should do. I personally think protesting at a funeral is wrong. Other people have different opinions.

kim147 Wed 10-Apr-13 16:02:42

And there are plenty of ways to make your views and feelings felt about her legacy.

LadyBeagleEyes Wed 10-Apr-13 16:08:23

If she'd had a private funeral this wouldn't be up for discussion would it?
But it's a public one, in public streets paid for with public money.
I don't want to see riots or flying bottles, but I would like to see a peaceful dignified counter demonstration.

Dawndonna Wed 10-Apr-13 16:09:13

Protest being one of them. One that she tried to stiffle, in fact.

ComposHat Wed 10-Apr-13 16:09:46

I get angry that those of us who suffered under her are being airbrushed out of the picture. The protests need to go ahead to show how she divided the country and caused irreparable damage to communities.

If poeple want to protest, that is their right, and even though I wouldnt protest I am thankful that I live in a country where you can.

Thatcher was a politician, not a little loved old lady and she and anyone involved in that trade know that there will be lovers and haters of them, it came with the job, and although she was forced out of politics, she remained a politician through and through.

Personally, I dont think for one moment any protests wont get anywhere near the funeral so you can stop worrying and allow the diana styled funeral to carry on, no doubt with hysterical people trying to throw flowers onto the coffin and clapping as she goes past. [vomits into throat]

I think the best protest is to ignore the funeral altogether, and just get on with my day, and that's what I intend to do.

ParadiseChick Wed 10-Apr-13 18:12:34

Utmost respect for the SNP MP and his dignified words in parliament today which did not ignore the depth of the damage she done.

Blu Wed 10-Apr-13 18:23:27

Mrs T is perfectly capable of protesting her funeral on her own behalf. I suspect that at the crematorium she will rise from her coffin, eyes glaring, finger pointing and declaring "you burn if you want to. The lady's not for burning!"

sick0fants Wed 10-Apr-13 20:48:52

grin at Blu

Southeastdweller Wed 10-Apr-13 20:58:51

People can protest where they want, in my book. Personally I feel disgusted about the use of £10,000,000 of our money being used for the funeral.

ToothGah Wed 10-Apr-13 21:14:39

Those of you who will/would protest at her funeral, I have a question.

When Tony Blair dies - for those of you who are staunch Labour supporters - what will you make of those who will rejoice in his passing?

For almost every person Thatcher and her government outraged, there is another who will mourn her passing as a leader of their party or simply as a leader of their country.

Shame on those of you who would disrupt or agree with the disruption of ANYbody's funeral.

And I say that as a Labour voter.

LadyBeagleEyes Wed 10-Apr-13 21:19:21

Well it won't be actually in the church waving placards will it ToothGah?
Any protest will be on the route, you know public streets, with a procession paid with public money.
When Tony Blair dies I'm sure his will be a private service, as of course should Mt's have been.

ToothGah Wed 10-Apr-13 21:24:53

I doubt it very much LadyBeagleEyes.

Blair will get a state or ceremonial funeral.

Growlithe Wed 10-Apr-13 21:26:04

ToothGah the bit in the Cathedral may be a funeral, but the bit parading the coffin around the streets isn't. That bit is a circus. A provocative one as well IMO.

Growlithe Wed 10-Apr-13 21:29:17

ToothGah Clement Atlee didn't.

LadyBeagleEyes Wed 10-Apr-13 21:29:31

The only reason he would is because the ridiculous decision to give MT one has started a precedent, though even then I doubt he will.
Churchill was the only former PM that's had one, it should have stayed that way.

ToothGah Wed 10-Apr-13 21:34:43

Growlithe - oh, that makes it ok then hmm

Growlithe Wed 10-Apr-13 21:39:22

ToothGah No, actually. None of it is ok.

Some people say she had to do what was right to save the country. Even if that was completely true, and 'you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs', you could at least have some compassion for the broken eggs. Especially when you've started making omelettes again.

Do not bring out the marching bands to celebrate it all. That is not OK.

doubleshotespresso Wed 10-Apr-13 22:17:18

The very idea of her coffin being draped in a union flag and escorted by the militry through the streets of London, is IMHO utterly repugnant and totally inflammatory. I cannot see how anybody would think this to be a good or appropriate idea. It provides recognition to a woman who caused such pain and suffering to so many and is a slap in the face to those struggling under the current situation.

i also think that this whole sorry debacle (or aptly called circus-thanks Growlithe) could well backfire on the current Tory government who had previously been quite successful in distancing themselves from Thatcherite policy.

I also fear that given we all have a week to prepare, that the potenial for trouble opposed to genuine protest is very high. I fear it is going to be a bad day for London, and yet again, the media wil focus on the idle masses instead of the root problems.

I hope and pray I'm wrong. I think by this time next week it wll be very unrealistic to expect a peaceful reaction from our struggling public.

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Wed 10-Apr-13 22:22:47

"I couldn't care less what you think that says about me Bunbaker, my youth was the Tatcher years, and she made parts of it bloody horrible for me and horrendous for my parents. She caused misery for millions, she doesn't deserve a wonderful funeral."
Oh this did make me laugh. She won't be around to experience it, you know, it's quite alright.

Dawndonna Wed 10-Apr-13 22:31:16

You have a valid point double. It's quite scary, really, in part because the 'idle masses' also have something to protest about. Let's not forget where this all started.

islandspa Wed 10-Apr-13 22:37:16

I think protests at funerals are in poor taste. I would never wish this on anyone, no matter how controverial their lives.

doubleshotespresso Wed 10-Apr-13 22:38:52

Thanks Dawndonna- yes that is exactly my point, I use the term more as a reference as to how any protesters will be portrayed. The entire population has I think got the biggest right to be angry and totally disenchanted right now- we have all been completely left to our owndevices to struggle whilst the Cameron cronies jst get richer. It is a disgrace, and yes we all know where this started. This funeral is going to be like a red rag to a bull.

doubleshotespresso Wed 10-Apr-13 22:47:20

islandspa -protests at funerals are in bad taste-very bad taste.

That is precisely why I could not think of a better way for the world to remember MT. What she put the vast population of the UK through (still evident today) was and is in poor taste. And the fact that we are to pay or contribute towards the cost of this PUBLIC event when the country is in its current poor state is in the very worst possible taste.

Growlithe Wed 10-Apr-13 22:50:33

I wish people would not keep confusing the event planned on 17th April with a funeral.

A funeral is an event where family and friends can remember the life of and say goodbye to a loved one.

This is an event full of people who do not care about her. It is all about publicity. We are all looking at DC for the arrangements rather than her children.

It is a hideous circus. It isn't a proper funeral. She isn't having one of those. If you regarded her favourably, I'd be sad about that rather than a few people with placards.

doubleshotespresso Thu 11-Apr-13 00:45:32

Bump

Smudging Thu 11-Apr-13 01:04:52

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Dawndonna Thu 11-Apr-13 08:21:53

Growlithe You're right, it's a circus and bread and circuses are fairly typical of this government, aren't they. Trouble is as I said earlier, this may be the one thing that unites a disenfranchised 'society'.

Lighthousekeeping Fri 12-Apr-13 13:12:41

Is Pete still married? I need reminding.

andubelievedthat Fri 12-Apr-13 13:39:05

are we talking about the same "woman"i.e.old woman ,mother ,wife ,giver of life that ordered the firing on/sinking /massive loss of life on a ship that was sailing away from a military zone ?(against war rules), oh,that mother ? who was up for re alection?oh , so you had children on that ship? not forgetting the milk from the kids >me, ?old enough to remember in reality , everyone does die, i am simply sad that she was ever born >spawn of satan. a.k.a. >piece of shit !(and i really do have to type type this>I.M.O.) PLEASE DO NOT POST AS A RESPONSE 2 THIS ,SIMPLY CALL YOUR BUILDING SOCIETY TO DISCUSS HOW YOU WILL BE PAYING YOUR MORGAGE SHORTLY, NOW THAT THE BIG CUTS HAVE STARTED, HERE COMES YOUR REALITY.

doubleshotespresso Fri 12-Apr-13 14:50:46

Who is pete?

grovel Fri 12-Apr-13 15:25:37

The plans were made by Labour for fuck's sake.

soverylucky Fri 12-Apr-13 15:27:38

The only thing that I can think you could protest about is the cost - so go and protest today outside parliament or downing street. Not at the actual funeral. You know - I am ashamed of the actions of people concerning the death of this senile, old woman.

Growlithe Fri 12-Apr-13 16:26:19

Just because she developed dementia doesn't put right the wrongs she committed.

And it isn't a funeral, not in the true sense. It is a public spectacle. So fair game for protesters.

What actions? The ridiculous spectacle hasnt happened yet.

I really cant see any protest will spoil the enjoyment of watching the funeral on telly with Holly Willobooby where people can gawp at useless celebs or standing for hours in the cold waving your flag as the coffin goes by and seeing or hearing nothing else at all.

I`ll tell you what I do find odd though is the thousands of people who will come and take photos of it or record it on their phones, now thats disrespectful is it not, perhaps they should be met by the force of the Met Police and their water cannons.

Dawndonna Fri 12-Apr-13 16:59:20

* I am ashamed of the actions of people concerning the death of this senile, old woman.*
Why? Because she was, in the end, a senile old woman?
As I've said before, there are better things to be ashamed about. I'm ashamed that she stated that Mandela was a 'grubby little terrorist'. I'm ashamed that she said that if you lived on a council estate you were a criminal. I'm fucking disgusted and that she stated that she could far better control an uneducated electorate than an educated one and then started removing free access to higher education.
For crying out loud, if you're going to be ashamed, at least do it because your child asked for a serviette in public.

EuroShaggleton Fri 12-Apr-13 17:05:05

I don't think she should have a ceremonial funeral. I don't think any former PM should.

Protesting at a funeral really is low and an act of remarkable pointlessness. She was in power more than 20 years ago. Have you not, you know, moved on a bit? Do you want to let someone you hate have such long lasting power over your lives?

Dawndonna Fri 12-Apr-13 17:06:40

No, we haven't moved on. This government's continual destruction of both the NHS and the Welfare system is a continuation of her legacy. One that we have every right to protest against.

LadyBeagleEyes Fri 12-Apr-13 17:06:41

I doubt there would have been any protests if it had been a private funeral, but considering our cash strapped Government can suddenly spare 8 million pounds for a public one, yay to go for the protesters.
I felt nothing on the announcement of her death really, a wry smile was the most I could give.
But as soon as I heard about this funeral I've been raging.

doubleshotespresso Fri 12-Apr-13 17:12:21

euroshaggleton "have we not you know, moved on a it?"

Some towns up and down the UK haven't sadly no. They've degenerated into absolute squalor which has had a devastating and yes long lasting power over the lives of countless British communities.

That I think may be the point of somehow le protesting at the funeral of the one responsible.

doubleshotespresso Fri 12-Apr-13 17:13:57

Totally agree Ladybeageleyes......

Everyone on here is entitled to their views & equally others are entitled to disagree with them.

As decent human beings,however, whatever the political view of each poster allowing a funeral to go ahead in peace is the basis of civilised society.

Object or protest all you like the day before & the day after but leave the family to grieve for her for a few hours- whatever you thought of MT it won't have a spit of effect on her but her family don't deserve this hatred.

It sickens me.

doubleshotespresso Fri 12-Apr-13 17:23:56

Sorry bossybritches but her family forfeited the right for private grief when they agreed to a publicly funded funeral.

I don't believe either of her children are worthy of our pity. Her son is still not allowed entry to the U.S (go figure) has cost us a bloody fortune in his short life through his illegal and unethical activities, and has hardly contributed to the system here has he? He is permanently on the move largely because if the "business" choices he makes and is continuously bailed out of or let off
from.

Her racist daughter doesn't really enter my radar either I'm afraid.

Being a member of the civilised society you refer to, the two Thatcher children sicken me.

But as you say we are all entitled to our opinion.

I agree LBE, at the news of her death I must admit I thought there will be a great number of people who will not be sad to see her go, but this `funeral` on Wednesday sickens me, such a massive amount of money, a false spectacle, I do understand the protests completely.

Good post doubleshot.

Growlithe Fri 12-Apr-13 17:25:36

Neither do her family particular deserve a piss up with Jeremy Clarkson on taxpayers money, but its happening isn't it?

Growlithe Fri 12-Apr-13 17:32:52

particularly sorry

Lighthousekeeping Fri 12-Apr-13 17:34:27

What makes her daughter racist btw? I missed that one.

Dawndonna Fri 12-Apr-13 17:40:05
Tortington Fri 12-Apr-13 17:40:55

i would like to separate issues.

1) the cost of the funeral.

is indeed ' a massive amount of money, a false spectacle' as dreams said. but it is legit to be fucking outraged.

I am entitled to be disgusted that i am paying for the funeral of a woman who didn't decimate in a pepper-potted modern Tory benefit-slashing type way, no - she annihilated WHOLE towns - imagine it.

2) Youngers can't comment.

If you are a child or grandchild of a family or town that was affected by her policies, you will have opinion becuase this will have affected your whole life.

3) protesting at a funeral

is not very good manners. The best thing the general public could do would be to line the streets, remain silent and turn their backs on her as her spectacle passes. any banner waiving, shouting etc is too much

Dawndonna Fri 12-Apr-13 17:41:05

Sorry. Don't know how that happened. racism

doubleshotespresso Fri 12-Apr-13 17:43:21

Dreamsturntogolddust* many thanks!

Growlithe love that post!

Lighthousekeeping who is pete? As for carol thatcher, I'm looking now for a link for you hang on!

doubleshotespresso Fri 12-Apr-13 17:47:51

You beat me to it! Thanks Dawndonna!

FreudiansSlipper Fri 12-Apr-13 17:55:44

I would like to see a silent protest people turning their backs on her I would attend a protest like that but I have to work

that to me would say it all I stand her the last time I can protest against this pm and all that she stood for. I think this is what many will be doing

I see it as my right to be able to protest at anything the government decides in the best interests for the public with so many against such a funeral it obviously is not

Her family could have a private funeral if they so wished

doubleshotespresso Fri 12-Apr-13 17:59:42

Custardo the separated post keys sense thank, but is turning your back on a funeral cortège not more offensive than peaceful protest?

Just pondering this..... The back turning thing seems so personal, I'm surprised it would be less offensive?

It may be bad manners but I think the gravity of the situation so many sadly find themselves in surpasses the matter of etiquette .

doubleshotespresso Fri 12-Apr-13 18:01:37

What happended to my keyboard????

Should have read: the separated pot makes sense thanks

Wallison Fri 12-Apr-13 18:05:59

Consigning three and a half million people to the scrap-heap is far more offensive than protesting at a public event, which is what this funeral is. And I'm not that bothered about the sensibilities of a racist and an arms dealer who didn't even bother coming back to the UK for two days after her death.

Growlithe Fri 12-Apr-13 18:11:04

I personally think it's an action of Marie Antoinette proportions, announced as it was in the same week as severe cuts in benefits for the disabled have come into force in the North.

And it's her - the woman who brought into this country the 'I'm alright Jack' mentality.

Bad manners? Fate and the foolhardy Government have created this stage. It would be rude not to use it.

soverylucky Fri 12-Apr-13 18:46:06

I am ashamed of people celebrating in the death of someone. Look - I can totally see why folk don't like her and I am beyond disgusted that the funeral is costing the amount it is - but what good is protesting at her funeral going to do except upset people. I do not see what good can come from causing upset to others - you become as bad as her. I think this whole "ding dong the witch is dead - lets have a party" stuff is just horrible.

I am sorry but I like to live my life by example and to cause a scene at someones funeral is not the best way to make a point. It is actually rude and disrespectful. Just because she was supposedly heartless doesn't mean to say we all should be.

Like I said before - protest about the cost now and to parliament - or protest several years ago when the idea was approved in the first place.

If no one protested, nothing would ever change.

As much as any government would like us all to be quiet and tow the line, our voices can be heard when people protest. It pisses me off that people are so thick that they cannot differentiate between people protesting and some idiots who turn things into a riot.

Sorry, and......

the polls tax protest turned into a riot when the Met Police charged in with horses and battons and anyone in the way was smacked down like something they found on the bottom of their shoes.

It is not a celebration of her death at all, people are angry at the gross waste of money and the pomp of someone who divided this country so badly. Its a protest to that, a protest that people will not and cannot forget or forgive. Its a democratic right.

Dawndonna Fri 12-Apr-13 19:09:36

Good grief! Will people please stop being ashamed of other people wishing to mark this in a way that they see fit, a way that is legal, despite Thatcher trying to make it illegal.
Every year elderly people die in the UK because of the cold. Not there's something to be ashamed of.

Sorry sovery that was not aimed at you at all, just trying to explain how some people feel, we are all different.

LadyBeagleEyes Fri 12-Apr-13 19:11:49

Exactly Dreams.
There's a huge difference between a peaceful protest and a riot.

Wallison Fri 12-Apr-13 19:12:39

I agree that that is shameful, dawndonna. Something else that struck me as shameful recently was the chinless wonders in Parliament braying and shouting "Hear hear" as benefits cuts were announced. Fucking disgusting.

soverylucky Fri 12-Apr-13 19:14:52

Thats ok.

Like I said before I am all for protest. I have been on a fair few protest marches in my time both at a local and national level. I am 100% in support of peoples right to protest but her funeral - it just something I can not get my head round.

And as far as I can see it is only me being ashamed. Not lots of people. I just keep making the same point because I am ashamed that people can not show respect to a family in grief. There is surely a way of protesting about the cost of this funeral without protesting at the actual event?

Growlithe Fri 12-Apr-13 19:17:39

It's not a funeral. It's an expensive public procession through the streets of London.

soverylucky Fri 12-Apr-13 19:21:02

It is the only funeral her family are going to get. I agree with you that it is not appropriate at all - a waste of money when we have food banks in this country. She should have had a private family funeral and a memorial service at a later date. That doesn't change my view that her family should in any way have to suffer when they are in grief and it isn't their fault that their relative is despised and hated. It also isn't their fault that this funeral was decided on by other people.

soverylucky Fri 12-Apr-13 19:21:45

not in any way

LadyBeagleEyes Fri 12-Apr-13 19:22:01

What Growlithe said.
If they want a public procession what do they expect?
It would be wrong to disrupt the actual service and if it had been private I doubt anybody would have.
We live in a democracy last time I looked.

sorry sovery that made me laugh, google Mark Thatcher, he has lived off his name and failed spectacularly, hes a complete hanger on, dont worry about his feelings.

She was consulted very much about her funeral as much as people would like to think it was GB, he just happened to be PM when it was decided, no doubt Carol and Mark were involved in the discussions.

Growlithe Fri 12-Apr-13 19:24:29

I've said this before on a thread (probably this one).

The family could have said no to this. She doesn't belong to the state. Why didn't they?

soverylucky Fri 12-Apr-13 19:25:24

Her family does not consist solely of her stupid son and racist daughter.

Growlithe Fri 12-Apr-13 19:26:26

They would be the ones that had the say, though.

soverylucky Fri 12-Apr-13 19:26:59

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I will never think that a funeral is a place to protest.

But its the immediate family who have the say at any funeral isnt it?

Wallison Fri 12-Apr-13 19:28:54

I doubt her family are shedding many tears for her. Didn't she die alone in a hotel room? Neither of her children bothered coming back to the UK until a couple of days after she had died. She pretty much ignored her racist daughter at the expense of pandering to her gun-running son, and even he thought his holiday was more important than returning to sort out her affairs. So I think that the protestors at this public event can console themselves with the thought that, in the end, her offspring didn't like her that much anyway.

Incidentally, the amount of money that MPs were paid to go back to parliament and spend a day spouting meaningless platitudes while the economy goes up the fucking spout is pretty much the same as job-seekers get per year. Unless they are job-seekers under 21, who get far less than that.

Ah but thats fine sovery, you feel that way, I wouldnt belittle it, but I think protests are a good thing if people feel strongly. Its ok to disagree with each other smile

Chipstick10 Fri 12-Apr-13 19:31:06

I can't get my head around it either. I think it reflects very badly on the people protesting.

soverylucky Fri 12-Apr-13 19:31:12

Yes dreams and I am sure that I will continue to protest like I have done for many years even thought most of them haven't done much good. And also not at funerals. smile

LadyBeagleEyes Fri 12-Apr-13 19:35:01

Oh yes, Wallison, another outrage.
Cameron recalling Parliament and all the Tories claiming expenses to come in and spout about her in the middle of their holidays.
Why couldn't they have waited till Monday when recess was over anyway.
Some of them were getting over £3000 quid.

Wallison Fri 12-Apr-13 19:39:53

I think the only protest that I went to that made a difference was a poll tax one (not the infamous London one but there were still plenty of arrests), and even then I'm not sure it was the protests that made a difference but rather the fact that no-one paid the bloody thing. Most pointless (and one that still rankles) was the massive anti-Iraq war one where I think the invasion followed about five weeks later. I still go on demos though! Maybe one day someone will listen to us [doesn't hold breath]

I was at the poll tax one in London, what I witnessed shocked me to the core although I did meet dh there! yy the anti-Iraq war was good, and I can never forgive the invasion.

I still feel it was right to protest though, even if it doesnt work, my voice was heard - by someone.

See, this is it LBE, why are people not outraged at the recall and all of the money MPs are making over this? That I cant get my head around.

Wallison Fri 12-Apr-13 19:51:06

The scenes from the London poll tax demo were bloody horrendous. It was bad enough at our local one - I saw police actually singling people out, not for what they had done, but just in order to have a target to focus on. As an innocent teenager who had taken the day off work to do something that was after all legal it was certainly an education.

And you got married because of it! And it was scrapped! Win-win in my book.

Varya Fri 12-Apr-13 19:57:18

I wonder why this degree of honour is being given to one PM and was not given to any others since Winston Chuchill. Tastless songs and protests by people too young to remember MT are all in bad taste IMO

How do you know the ages of protesters Varya, it hasnt happened yet!

Dawndonna Fri 12-Apr-13 20:11:52

I'm old enough to remember her and have been playing Elvis Costello pretty much non stopl grin

The only people Ive seen on this board who were not old enough to remember are amongst the ones who seem to think she was great, I think most people who are anti-Thatcherism on here, remember.

soverylucky Fri 12-Apr-13 20:34:08

I heard someone on radio 4 yesterday saying that he would rather see "shipbuilding" going to number one rather than the munchkins. I agree with him.

LadyBeagleEyes Fri 12-Apr-13 20:40:04

Well, I'm 56 and definitely remember.
And when my ds emerged from his room on the day she died and I'd just heard the news, I said 'Dingdong the witch is dead',
He hadn't a clue what I was talking about, he's 17 and keeps saying I'm being mean about a poor old lady.
He's got a much kinder heart than I do.

MiniTheMinx Fri 12-Apr-13 20:40:09

Shipbuilding, terrible bloody drone though. Great idea, pitty about the music!

Growlithe Fri 12-Apr-13 20:47:23

I can't stand this 'too young to remember' malarky.

I didn't live through the war. My mum and dad were children during it though, and, strange though it may seem, they talked to me about it. Especially about the effects it had on them, and their own emotions (scared and confused most of the time, for the record). So I have a right to an opinion on that era, I think.

So I don't buy it that young people wouldn't have opinions on Thatcher. I think they would have very valid opinions on what the long term effects of MT's policies would have on a family.

Coupled with a knowledge (albeit second hand) of very recent history, these guys can't get jobs right now. They are working for nothing in Poundland. They have a valid gripe of their own.

Give the young adults today a bit of credit. They are allowed opinions.

Actually, it is usually young adults that will do the most protesting against a situation (e.g. students in Tiananmen Square ). The death of MT has created the most unusual situation of reminding the middle aged community that they had EXACTLY the same struggle as we see today. That is an awful lot of justified bitterness. Who knows what might happen?

Wallison Fri 12-Apr-13 20:47:23

There are quite a few songs that I'd rather have - Last day of the miners' strike, The day that Thatcher dies, Tramp the dirt down etc. But people seem to have got behind the munchkins. When did it start being associated with her? Was it back in the 80s? Only it seems to have been in people's consciousness for quite a long time.

Wallison Fri 12-Apr-13 20:50:53

I don't buy into the 'too young to remember' horseshit either. I have plenty of opinions on lots of things that I didn't personally experience - don't we all? Also, quite often there is a benefit of hindsight unclouded by personal ephemera. I mean, just because you lived through something, it doesn't mean that you fully understood what happened. Look at, for example, the footage of the police attacking miners. Plenty of people at the time would have watched that on the news and just taken it as read that the miners were attacking the police, because that was how it was presented to them. It was only some time after the event that the truth of the matter became publicly known.

ifancyashandy Fri 12-Apr-13 20:53:51

I'm quite happy for them to spend the money and parade Thatcher through the streets.

For this is the stuff if revolution.

Keep on keepin' on Cameron et al. For it is your own grave you dig.

Also, its important that young people know the history of politics and form their own opinions. Politics shape all of our futures. I still enjoy watching and learning about history before my time.

I havent actually heard the song but I presume its a take on `The Wizard?`

oops got to go, have I got news for you is on!

MiniTheMinx Fri 12-Apr-13 21:15:03

I thought the capitalists were digging their own graves, maybe they would dig one for Scameron et al while they are it........oh they already are wink

I think a lot of young people understand that "thatcher" wasn't just a woman, or just an PM even but someone who started a revolution of sorts herself. Her ideas were not her own and these ideas have not died with her and neither did things fundamentally change when she left office. 30 years of neo-liberalism, 30 years of declining living standards, 30 years of rising corporate profits.

Chandon Fri 12-Apr-13 21:18:11

did anyone hear the Scottish guy on radio 2, who said he partied when she was dead "because of what she did in Iraq"...

she has become an object of hate, for things she did not even do.

now when Tony dies....

LadyBeagleEyes Fri 12-Apr-13 21:25:24

If Tony also gets a public funeral worth 8 million I'll protest about that too.

Growlithe Fri 12-Apr-13 21:27:46

No Chandon you heard right. You see Thatcher sold Saddam a shit load of British weapons, so very much contributed to the war with Iraq.

Wallison Fri 12-Apr-13 21:53:35

Thatcher was pretty fond of old Saddam. And Pinochet, and Suharto. She had a soft spot for those nice fellas in the Khmer Rouge as well.

And I agree that I would also protest at war-mongering child-killer Blair getting a state funeral as well.

Growlithe Fri 12-Apr-13 22:00:35

She would have done what Blair did. So would Brown. So would Cameron.

Wallison Fri 12-Apr-13 22:01:52

Actually, on the neo-liberalism thing, while I agree with you I wonder if she understood what she was unleashing. She wasn't much of a thinker, and she grabbed hold of this monetarist philosophy as though it was the holy grail. At the time, there was plenty of lip-service being paid to the "trickle-down" effect. Of course we all know now that it was bullshit, but given the strength of her convictions she probably did think that it would happen; also she is on record as saying that she thought it was a great thing that the energy companies would be owned by the ordinary tax-payer as shareholders when of course all that has happened is that they have turned into a cartel headed by massively rich foreign investors who now own us. She was utterly wrong in what she did, but I don't think she even nearly comprehended the consequences ie lots and lots of money at the top of the tree being siphoned off to a few. I heard that old fart Hurd being interviewed recently and he reported a conversation he'd had with her where he asked her if she had any regrets. Turns out she regretted cutting taxes, because she had assumed that rich people would behave responsibly with their money and turn it to public good.

Blair, on the other hand, knew exactly what the consequence of continuing down the same route would be, and did it anyway.

Growlithe Fri 12-Apr-13 22:07:29

You think she didn't know at she was doing when he sold off the energy companies? Because my dad did, and he was a labourer from Liverpool who left school at 14. Can't believe he could see what was going to happen when the PM couldn't.

Wallison Fri 12-Apr-13 22:18:12

I don't think she did see it, no. I agree that other people did. I've been thinking about this quite a lot since she died, and like I say her anti-intellectual stance and limited thinking has drawn me to the conclusion that she just didn't consider the consequences of some of the things she did, because I doubt that she could have predicted Blair et al taking the ball and running with it. What I think she believed in was this mythical free market; we don't have that now of course - it's more like feudalism in my opinion. But I don't know if that's what she was aiming at.

grovel Fri 12-Apr-13 22:40:13

Wallison, a wise post. I think she saw the problem(s) and had the guts to act. I don't think she fully understood the consequences of her actions.

grovel Fri 12-Apr-13 22:42:00

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm grateful (on balance) that she acted.

Nope Wallison I would disagree. I think her famous quote of " there is no such thing as society, there are only individual men and women" says it all for me. I think she was a very intelligent woman who was very savvy and hard-working and driven and ruthless. Clearly she could not have predicted Blair et al but she did fervently follow the vilification of the poor and the destruction of the unions and any sort of collective 'community' action as being anti free-market.
As a gay woman coming to adulthood in the 80s I can tell you honestly that section 28 caused literally untold damage to thousands and thousands of lives. She instigated the worst series of viscious, draconian policies this country has seen....and that, for my money, off sets any gifting of cheaper council house sales or superficial share ownership cons to involvement of the peasants in share ownership.

Wallison Fri 12-Apr-13 22:59:24

I'm not. I think she was completely wrong. She may not have realised the implications fully, because she was a short-term thinker, but she was wrong. And also - and this is the thing that really gets me - she was utterly callous in terms of the casualties that she created. I think it's a very bad thing that someone so completely devoid of fellow feeling, compassion and humanity got put in charge of a country. She normalised worklessness. She normalised the precarious nature of short hours and casual contracts that lead to worklessness. She normalised homelessness. She normalised lack of social mobility and a widening gap between rich and poor.

I don't think she realised just how far neo-liberalism would go, but she was happy enough to sacrifice all of that for short-term gains.

Wallison Fri 12-Apr-13 23:05:42

That last post was to grovel, btw. Re the "no such thing as society" I agree with you Isindebusagain that it's a shocking statement, but I think that she still (wrong-headedly) believed that people could just pull themselves up by their bootstraps if the economic conditions were right.

Perhaps I'm being too charitable though.

LaLaGabby Fri 12-Apr-13 23:21:22

Haha Chandon are you unaware that there were two Iraq wars?

The first took place in the early nineties and was instigated by Margaret Thatcher and President George Bush (yes there were two of them too). Both were trying to salvage their popularity, ironically both weregone by the time the war started.

For this thousands of people were killed including civilians in an airraid shelter in Baghdad hit by bunker buster bombs and hundreds of Iraqi soldiers killed in cold blood while retreating from Kuwait. Depleted uranium was used leading to our soldiers getting Gulf War Syndrome and countless babies with birth defects in Southern Iraq.

Hope this helps.

schoolgovernor Fri 12-Apr-13 23:28:50

The government in power has corporate responsibility. Are people planning to protest and riot every time one of Margaret Thatcher's cabinet colleagues pops their clogs? If so, they've missed a few already... hmm

Wallison Fri 12-Apr-13 23:31:36

I don't think it's the popping of clogs that is the issue here. What is "corporate responsibility" in this context?

LadyBeagleEyes Fri 12-Apr-13 23:32:43

Oh did some of them have a public funeral Schoolgoverner?
Must have missed that.

wallison i get what you are saying and I think that the tories in this coalition also believe that if people would just pull themsleves up by their bootstraps, be more responsible, be more intelligent, be more hard working, be more personally accountable, be more like us....
Then all would be ok.

The idea that we are not all the same and that the problems of the country don't lend themsleves to simple views of right and wrong... Well thats a challenge

LaLaGabby Fri 12-Apr-13 23:43:10

Another thing, the Metropolitan police regularly talk up violent protests when no such things have been planned. This happened at the G8 protests and various others. Senior police go around claiming that they know for a fact there will be rioting, etc. This has several effects:

- People who want to protest, but don't want to be involved in disorder stay away, while a small group of people who are only interested in fighting the police make sure they show up. So it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
- Fear of supposed rioting and lawlessness makes people more tolerant of the police overreacting, allowing them to trample over protester's rights and do things like kettling, beating up peaceful protesters, etc.
- More police resources are dedicated to policing the protest, allowing the police to profit from overtime etc.

If it does happen to get rowdy, this justifies the police being more repressive, more violent, and using more resources next time. If nothing happens, this is proof that heavy-handed policing works, also used to justify more overreaction next time.

I had heard nothing about protests at the funeral, let alone aggro, until the police started talking about it.

Thats a vey good point LaLa, I think Ive read this week that the police are ready for anybody who even lifts a placard.

Wallison Fri 12-Apr-13 23:47:23

Actually Isindebusagain I'm going to disagree with you again - sorry! I don't think this coalition thinks like that for a moment. Quite apart from anything else, they come from a completely different background to her - they've never done an honest day's work in their lives. Oh, I quite agree that their rhetoric sounds the same, but they don't really think that everyone in the country could be more like them - they are just rich boys indulging in Bullingdon antics but instead of wrecking restaurants they are ripping up the NHS and the welfare state and they are quite happy that even when it is blatantly obvious that fiscal policies amount to grinding down the proles while siphoning off large amounts of money to their mates they went to school with, all that they need to do is pay lip-service to "aspiration nation" and they will get away with it. I actually think they just feel contempt for the ordinary working man and woman for letting them do all of this hateful shit.

schoolgovernor Fri 12-Apr-13 23:55:22

All funerals are public enough for people to disrupt if they really want to. And this isn't just about the funeral because the displays of public jubilation (carefully staged with press present) started as soon as the news of her death broke.
To be honest I think it's a very strange reaction from some members of the public. The time to celebrate was when she left office, and a lot of people did. An old lady with dementia died and people are acting as if some sort of dictator has been overthrown. It's not going to have any effect on her, she's beyond worrying about anything. It's cruel to her family of course, but who cares about them? Let them pay for whatever wrongs people think their mother/grandmother did. Bloody daft.
(I'm a GOW tonight).

PigletJohn Sat 13-Apr-13 01:19:49

The funeral of an old woman is certainly no place for a multi-million political demonstration at the taxpayer's expense.

I can't stand her and have shed no tears at her passing (and drank a glass of milk in celebration)

I will be wearing red on Wednesday. I had heard suggestions that to protest against her, go and join your union, and help get Thatcher 2 (just the same, probably worse) out of parliament

Theenemy Sat 13-Apr-13 05:04:36

A funeral is not the place for protest, if that funeral is a small-ish, mostly private affair, like most Prime Ministers have had recently. If you organise what is a state funeral in all but name, at huge cost to the tax-payer to score political points you have no one to blame but yourself Mr.Cameron when there are protests, or worse riots.

mrsscoob Sat 13-Apr-13 08:22:08

In answer to your question, no a funeral procession should not be a place for protests. However in these so called times of austerity when people are finding it hard to put food on the table and heat their homes I find it astonishing that the government should be spending this much money on a funeral for Margaret Thatcher when so many people are against it.

There are old age pensioners dying in this country as they can't afford to put the heating on and this old lady spent her last years living in the Ritz and is now going to have a 10 million pound funeral. You couldn't make it up really. All in this together. My arse.

Have her family no say in this? She should have had a private dignified funeral and then be buried next to her husband. If the powers that be insist on a procession through London, then they should not be surprised if there are protests.

threesypeesy Sat 13-Apr-13 08:27:42

YANBU surely only low life imbeciles would contemplate protesting at a funeral procession. Some people really need to be taught the meaning of 'showing respect'

Dawndonna Sat 13-Apr-13 09:04:05

I think the point threesypeesy is that we have no respect for her.
As for lowlife imbecile, really? I think I may use that in my next book!

schoolgovernor Sat 13-Apr-13 09:09:51

We all know that the protests/riots/demonstrations that will take place next week will not be simply because there is going to be a state funeral for the woman. People started "celebrating" as soon as she died. There is a worrying section of the public who have been motivated by some bizzare hatred of the woman as a person right from the day of her death. We had people on MN telling us how they went to parties to celebrate her death.

The expense on a state funeral has given an added excuse for violent action. Because it will be violent. While housewives feel part of something by joining in with "demonstrations" and other forms of protest there will be violence on the streets. Yet again, the public and will be put in danger, personal property will be damaged, police, firemen and paramedics will all be at risk. I am not saying that people shouldn't protest at the way our money is being spent, I am saying that this is the wrong way to do it. Where's the moral high ground in supporting what we know will open the door for the professional and violent protesters that always turn up for these things? What is noble about planning to disrupt a funeral and frighten members of the public who want to attend and pay their respects? Remember, she and her government were re-elected, a significant section of the public still respect her.

I was when Thatcher was elected and a working adult through the "Thatcher Years". I remember the excitement when a woman was elected Prime Minister, the feeling that we could really do anything we wanted. I don't support everything that her government did, we went through some dreadful times, but as with all governments, they achieved mix of good and bad outcomes. I use the word government advisedly, because that's the bottom line isn't it? The government in power controlled the country through those times, no one individual, however powerful, is able to make the decisions alone in our country. And yet, the hatred is narrowly focused on one woman, a woman who surely led the government, but never had the power to govern the country alone.

`showing respect` what? do you mean like in North Korea?

So people turning up on Wednesday to gawp and take photos and video, thats respectful is it? No, its a circus, a respectful funeral would be with family and friends, not carted around the streets. Dont kid yourself that people are coming to London to show respect, they are coming for a day out.

The only imbeciles on that day will be the idiots standing in the streets on celeb watch.

Dawndonna Sat 13-Apr-13 09:28:09

The scary thing is schoolgovernor if you read biographies of any of her cabinet members, if you talk to any of her cabinet members, they will all, without fail, tell you that the decisions were hers and hers alone. They were all too damned scared to disagree. Those that did dare to question her were swiftly removed from cabinet. So, in this particular case, no you can't blame a government.

threesypeesy Sat 13-Apr-13 09:32:27

Yes low life imbeciles.... shes an old woman that done a hell of a lot of good for this country. The majority who dont like her seem to come from mining back grounds, they were loosing far to much money to warrent keeping them all open and eh the miners went on strike!!

Celebrating a death is vile, particating at protests at a funeral is also vile!!!

Growlithe Sat 13-Apr-13 09:33:06

schoolgovernor If you are so absolutely certain there will be violence on the streets, then David Cameron must know. So why are they doing it?

And what have 'housewives' got to do with it?

Theenemy Sat 13-Apr-13 09:37:56

Threesy, if her funeral is turned into a circus that I have to pay for, against my wishes, then I have a right to protest. Nothing to do with miners!

threesypeesy Sat 13-Apr-13 09:45:35

Well I think thats a very horrible attitude to have, there have been riots linked to celebrating her death so causing disrupition, damage to propert etc is ok as peopke did not like her? I think not there mindless idiots jumping on the band wagon and are an embarrassment to this country

shockers Sat 13-Apr-13 10:13:17

I agree OP... but, I don't want to pay for her funeral through my taxes.

I cannot understand the logic behind that decision.

Dawndonna Sat 13-Apr-13 11:44:42

I do not come from a mining background. In fact, almost the opposite. I don't like her. If they were losing money, enough not to warrant them staying open, there were negotiations to be had, negotiations that she refused to enter.
Whilst the unions needed taming to some extent, they did not need decimating and that's what she set out to do.
Now, I don't particularly resent being called a lowlife imbecile, but from somebody who knows little about the history of the situation and who votes tory because they think it gives them class, well really, run along, dear.

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Sat 13-Apr-13 11:50:43

*CloudsAndTrees Tue 09-Apr-13 20:24:09
You'd think it was obvious wouldn't you? People that can even contemplate demonstrating at a funeral are scum, and really need to get themselves a life.*

Didn't bother reading further than this. You protest or 'celebrate' at someone's funeral? You're just a fucking cunt. Like those bible whackos who protested Matthew Shepard's funeral. In the end, it's the same. A family grieving and you being a cunt about it.

There's a time and a place.

Growlithe Sat 13-Apr-13 11:57:59

Some grieving family. She died alone in the Ritz and they couldn't shift their arses back into the country for 2 days. It's just a piss up for Jeremy Clarkson et al on the money we supposedly haven't got.

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Sat 13-Apr-13 12:10:48

Family grieving or not, a funeral as your choice of celebration, just makes you look like scum. Just like her. You (plural) stooped to her level and are smug about it? Cunty.

What sort of monster does that? (And yes, I know and vaguely remember what she implemented.)

A funeral is possibly the cruellest place to pop a bottle and cheer.

I guess I just believe celebrating the death of someone makes you a cunt. Being relieved someone is dead? Sure. Protesting the funeral of someone who hasn't been in power for years? Cunty.

A funeral is a funeral is a funeral. I'll be teaching my DC more respect than having no shame mocking a dead old lady.

Westeboro (sp?) Church are viciously (and justifiably!) condemned for picketing funerals.

But they think they're fighting evil and are justified. Just like the cunty little protesters.

Maybe it's just me, but being on par with that 'church' morale wise would make me sick.

LadyBeagleEyes Sat 13-Apr-13 12:16:14

Bloody Hell, with supporters of MT like you, who needs enemies. You sound hysterical.
And I think you've just won the MN award for the most usage of cunt on posts, especially as you're not joking.
<Backs away from scary person>

Growlithe Sat 13-Apr-13 12:16:19

I think spending 10 million pounds on this whilst removing benefits for disabled people is pretty cunty behaviour too.

That lacks respect.

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Sat 13-Apr-13 12:24:28

Meh, I'm not scary. Apologies if I made that impression, though I assume you're just being passive aggressive. If not, genuine apology. I have no illusions about Thatcher. She was not a good person or ruler - Far from it.

But she's dead, gone. So yes, it is cunty to have a party at her funeral. No one deserves that. No one. It makes you lower than trash IMO.

I certainly agree I don't get why the state payed for her service confused Surely they must have known that would give angry people an excuse? Why exactly would the state pay for her funeral? (genuine question if anyone knows the answer. It's hardly the norm!?)

But protesting the government is the right thing to do, not a dead old lady. I'd be so ashamed if I encouraged my DC to be such monsters as to dance on someone's grave....Urgh.

wow, words like, imbecile, cunt, monsters and moron really make for an intelligent discussion dont you think hmm Bloody hell why cant people debate and disagree without getting so aggressive.

Theenemy Sat 13-Apr-13 12:37:18

Dreams I totally agree, if you dare to have an opinion that isn't shared by the majority expect to be jumped on, reported and blocked. Using disgusting language though is absolutely fine though.

Growlithe Sat 13-Apr-13 12:37:40

We aren't talking about any normal old lady. We aren't talking about any normal funeral. We are talking about a big public spectacle which is rubbing the nose of ordinary people - whose families suffered under her government and are again suffering - in it.

It is totally inappropriate and it is right to be against it. And if people want to use it as a stage to protest about the shoddy way they are being treated, then the last thing I would call them is cunts.

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Sat 13-Apr-13 12:43:05

Well, although I assume your question is hypothetical I'll answer anyway.

I get personal because due to a loved one's death and funeral, as well as my own grief, too see this vicious, hypocritical glee makes me ill.

I truly do believe only someone heartless would stand and watch grieving people while they screamed insults and had a laugh.

I'd be beyond ashamed of one of my DC is they became such trashy individuals.

Bowing out now because you're right, I cannot have an intelligent debate about this particular topic because 'people' jeering at death make me ill.

I don't think I deserved the PA about how 'scary' I am and my 'award,' but either way we all have different opinions and I stand by my own.

Will hide thread now, I didn't mean to course further distraught (truly)

I just can't agree it's okay to cheer someone's death. Makes me feel ill and upsets me greatly.

Hope there's a good reason why so much money was wasted on the funeral.

Cheers.

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Sat 13-Apr-13 12:45:25

I haven't reported anything.

The irony of being offended by 'disgusting language' while agreeing with protests at funerals...

Like I said, I'm out. Oh the hypocrisy of mean words but protests at a dead woman's funeral are okay..

Growlithe Sat 13-Apr-13 12:46:54

It's more to do with her life than her death.

No irony at all, why should there be hmm not mean words, they never bother me, love a good swear, but the fact is your arguement is all cunt, lowest of the low etc...... with no actual content, just throwing as much abuse as you can.

Theenemy Sat 13-Apr-13 12:53:14

If it was a private funeral I'd be outraged to think there were going to be protests. But as its a public spectacle being paid for with my taxes I think I have a right to protest if I wish. Not that I will, I'm used to being treated like a mug by this government.

Its not a funeral though really, no one will get close at all to anyone of the family or true friends will they? The protesters if there are any wont get anywhere near the circus part.

I wouldnt protest at all, but I will vigorously defend anyones right to do so.

Whoops, I`ll protest for ever about anything that is important to me, I mean I wouldnt protest for this at that time.

NigellasGuest Sat 13-Apr-13 12:58:57

that person upthread lost me at the word "housewives"
WTAF?

PigletJohn Sat 13-Apr-13 14:53:00

she surely wasn't seriois though?

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