Or was cabin crew? My child scolded herself.

(290 Posts)
maxbradbury Sun 07-Apr-13 19:42:51

Ok flying home from Easter holiday. We went with a large group of us so all four children sat in the row in front with us sitting behind them on the plane. Cabin crew come through serving hot drinks and I have my nose in a book so do not notice. All of a sudden my six year old starts to scream. She had split hot chocolate all over herself . Turns out a member of crew asked if she would like a hot drink and she asked for a hot chocolate which was given to her without a lid or my consent. A member of crew took us to the loos and dressed to burn. I asked if it is normal procedure to give a young child a hot drink without consent and a lid. She said it wasn't and they would normally get consent and even then water it down with milk and pop on a lid.

Husband wants to make a complaint but I sort of feel I was partly to blame as I was not sat with her. She still has marks on her legs five days on. So am I to blame for not sitting with her or should I make a complaint?

Bearbehind Sun 07-Apr-13 19:44:57

Struggling to imagine how you could possibly not notice someone serving your child with a hot drink in the row in front of you- fear you are BU.

Iamsparklyknickers Sun 07-Apr-13 19:45:49

But you were on the plane with her not sat in some unreachable place, it would have taken the steward one minute to ask where her mum was.

I'd complain.

PollyEthelEileen Sun 07-Apr-13 19:45:52

You want to complain because you weren't looking after your own child?

What do you hope to gain?

mummymeister Sun 07-Apr-13 19:45:57

couple of things. firstly what do you want out of a complaint? they arent going to admit any guilty in case you sue them but they might offer a flight voucher. would you be happy with that? second what are the airlines rules re children under a certain age sitting on their own. if you broke their rule then you dont have much of a leg to stand on. you have to decide bearing in mind the injury how far you want to take this. speak to your travel insurance company for some advice. have no idea if yabu or not as no idea how bad/long lasting the injury is.

Iamsparklyknickers Sun 07-Apr-13 19:47:09

Oh and they didn't put a lid on - I'd complain if that spilt me and I'm in my 30's.

WipsGlitter Sun 07-Apr-13 19:47:45

I think you should complain, but also realise that children should not be left on their own even if you are only a row behind.

It's scalded, not scolded. But maybe it's a typo.

TheChimpParadox Sun 07-Apr-13 19:48:01

Blimey how engrossed in your book were you that you failed to notice the cabin crew serving drinks infront of you and talking with your daughter ?

YABU

Bearbehind Sun 07-Apr-13 19:48:25

I've never been in a flight where you got a lid with a hot drink, they are served in cups to people sitting in seats, just like in a coffee shop.

Who decided the kids were all in the one row? Why did you or an adult not sit in the row with them?

pinkyredrose Sun 07-Apr-13 19:48:58

You should've been looking out for your child YABU

Buzzardbird Sun 07-Apr-13 19:50:04

how did your dd pay?

CheCazzo Sun 07-Apr-13 19:50:20

I've never been on a flight where the drinks served were anything approaching hot! So it was hot enough to burn her? Did it blister? Did you seek medical advice on your return? I'm sure you must have - so what did your GP say?

I don't think you should complain that you were not supervising your 6year old, sorry.

currentbuns Sun 07-Apr-13 19:50:45

Were you sitting in the seats assigned to you on your tickets? Or was this Ryan Air or similar with no seats allocated? I'm assuming the former, if drinks were being handed out free of charge?
Also, how old were the four dc?

hermioneweasley Sun 07-Apr-13 19:51:15

You should have been supervising your kids. Agree with bearbehind - never had a hot drink with a lid on it on a plane.

trinity0097 Sun 07-Apr-13 19:51:45

If it were the airline policy for an adult to be sat on the row then they should have pointed this out before take off and asked the party to shuffle around.

I think you should complain, as they obviously seem to have broken their policy. Even if all you get from it is a letter apologising and saying that staff will be reminded of the policy so it doesn't happen again.

KirstyJC Sun 07-Apr-13 19:52:08

I think you should absolutely complain - your poor dd.sad

What you want out of the complaint is and apology that the didn't follow their own procedures (if another member of staff said that they shouldn't have done it) and confirmation that all staff would be reminded about procedures to ensure they didn't do it again.

And as for pp think it was your fault they did something that caused harm to your child......what a lovely attitude.hmm

CabbageLeaves Sun 07-Apr-13 19:53:01

I think it's stupid to give a 6 yr old a drink hot enough to scald so cabin crew need advising. Don't personally see why you need to sit next to your child to prevent this happening or how it might of. I don't test the temp of my DD's drinks

Viviennemary Sun 07-Apr-13 19:53:15

I think it was rather neglectful of the hostess to have served your child with such a hot drink. But you should have been looking after her. And usually the drinks are served in small cups which don't have lids anyway. It's hard to judge without knowing the exact circumstances.

Floggingmolly Sun 07-Apr-13 19:54:34

Your consent? Were you far enough away from your child that you didn't hear her order herself a drink? hmm
The kids should have been interspersed with adults in the seats; then you or another grown up would have been there to control the situation.
What would your "complaint" consist of, exactly?

thistlelicker Sun 07-Apr-13 19:55:11

How could you or any other adult in your party not notice the two cabin crew and the massive trolley? What's to gain from complaining? If a child scalded themselves at home what would U do!?? I think u need to have a think about you may or
May not gain from complaining

If they are old enough to be sat together without adult supervision, they are old enough to have a hot drink. You can't have it both ways.

Accidents happen, keep your child supervised if you want to prevent accidents.

I wouldn't complain, I would be angry with myself that I was more interested in my friends or reading a book than to stop this from happening.

KirstyJC Sun 07-Apr-13 19:55:39

Don't the people saying OP should have supervised her child feel it might have been inappropriate for the steward to give a 6 year old a scalding hot drink without checking an adult was aware of it?

You kind of trust other responsible adults will not do anything that puts a small child in danger, surely?

Yabu - you should have been paying more attention. Have never had a hot drink on a plane in a cup with a lid. What would you hope to gain by complaining?

WipsGlitter Sun 07-Apr-13 19:56:01

It depends on the airline, I've been on flights where you get proper cups but also ones where it's a Starbucks type cup with a lid.

BuggerLumpsAnnoyed Sun 07-Apr-13 19:56:26

Im sorry your dd was burnt. However, i find that complaining about this sort of thing is an example of everything that is wrong with the world <over exageration>

thistlelicker Sun 07-Apr-13 19:56:34

I too thought adults had
To sit with children! What if an Emergancy and you couldn't be with them? Ie if u needed the life jackets?

Machli Sun 07-Apr-13 19:56:56

Yes they shouldn't have served her that but YOU should have been watching. I would blame myself in this situation.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 07-Apr-13 19:57:07

gawd, why complain? you're only going to get someone into rotten trouble, and to what end?

crashdoll Sun 07-Apr-13 19:57:17

YABU, you should have been supervising her. I can't stand the blame culture, where is the personal responsibility?

Blu Sun 07-Apr-13 19:57:56

It sounds as if she was scalded quite badly sad. Has she been seen by a doctor?

The thing I would want out of this is for cabin crew to know that they must not give hot drinks to small children except under supervision of a parent, whether the parents agree or whether the parents are drunk and shagging in the toilet.

I think it quite reasonable to have children directly I'm the row in front , and if that was against airline rules, they only had to ask you to re-arrange.

They never put lids on hot drinks on planes, do they?

KirstyJC Sun 07-Apr-13 19:58:16

'What's to gain by complaing' - how about a member of staff NOT giving a scalding hot drink to a small child again, causing burns which are still there 5 days later?

Christ, I must have slipped into an alternate reality here - you lot are all (mainly) bonkers!

It is in NO way the OPs fault that another adult gave her child something so dangerous without her knowledge!

OP - you MUST complain otherwise this person might do it again and with more serious consequences.

spottyparrot Sun 07-Apr-13 19:58:21

I would not complain. I think an adult should have been sitting with the 6yo and supervising her.

Bearbehind Sun 07-Apr-13 19:59:13

What is it with this blame culture nowadays? The steward probably shouldn't have given a young child a hot drink but child's parents definitely should have been supervising their children on the flight so no one is in the right- just chalk it up to experience.

thistlelicker Sun 07-Apr-13 19:59:22

Op hasn't returned yet! Many things unanswered to get clearer pic

VinegarDrinker Sun 07-Apr-13 19:59:35

I agree with Clutching

I think you neglected your child and as a consequence she got hurt. I would never dream of letting a 6 year old sit without either a young adult 14+ or an adult.

Seems you couldn't be arsed to look after her, wanted to read your book etc etc. I would be too embarrassed to complain.

KirstyJC Sun 07-Apr-13 20:00:28

And if someone gets in trouble over this, then that suggests that they shouldn't have done it, doesn't it? In which case they deserve to be in trouble.

GraceSpeaker Sun 07-Apr-13 20:00:36

More benefit to be gained from learning from the experience, I think. Don't see either how you didn't hear your daughter asking for the drink - you can't have been that far away. Cabin crew slightly irresponsible and clearly not following procedure (which was admitted), so complain if you like, but keep an eye on your children better. Did your husband not notice either, then? Must've been a very noisy cabin.

VBisme Sun 07-Apr-13 20:00:41

Sorry she's been hurt, you must feel terrible, not sure you can blame the flight attendant though.

maxbradbury Sun 07-Apr-13 20:01:09

All drinks were included in the flight. The other children were 10,9, 12 and 8.
When they were serving the meals before hand they asked me which meal they would like so I assumed they would ask again.
We all sat on the chairs that were allocated to us. Grandparents sat in the row in front of the children. There were alot of family surrounding. To be honest I dont even remember the drinks cart coming round. I don't know if I was in the loo at the time. It was a night flight but I do completely understand why people think I am unreasonable but surely the crew should of realised its not safe to give a hot drink to a six year old.

Ps it was a crew member who told me they had lids.

MixedBerries Sun 07-Apr-13 20:01:46

YABU. But I hope you daughter's OK. Air stewardesses are not trained childminders.

montage Sun 07-Apr-13 20:02:07

Is it possible she did not realise your daughter was so young, or that she assumed the oldest child in the row was old enough to be supervising/ objecting if necessary to the hot chocolate?

HotCrossPun Sun 07-Apr-13 20:03:15

Struggling to understand how you can be sitting directly behind your DC's and not notice them being served.

Did it blister? Unless she was actually injured I don't think there would be any point in you complaining.

DontSHOUTTTTTT Sun 07-Apr-13 20:03:32

I definitely think you shouldn't complain. It was up to you or your art ear to supervise. I don't think it is at all unreasonable to offer a 6 year old a drink.
How old were the other kids sitting with her?

birdofthenorth Sun 07-Apr-13 20:04:07

Poor judgement on the steward's part, and I'm sorry your DD was hurt. Possibly the steward was a poor judge of children's age and assumed a child sat with other kids asking for a hot chocolate was capable of holding it and thought she was doing a nice thing by meeting her wishes. I am sure she will be more cautious in future, as no doubt will you & your DD. Personally I wouldn't bother complaining, it will only cause you & the staff member stress and cannot reverse time. Hope you all has a nice holiday prior to this.

If there were all those adults then you should have taken turns to sit with the kids.

What did the doctor say when you took her to get checked?

DontSHOUTTTTTT Sun 07-Apr-13 20:04:46

Xposted. I think it would be very likely that the stewardess to think the 12 year old was supervising.

500internalerror Sun 07-Apr-13 20:05:10

I can see how it would've been fun for the kids to all sit together, I understand why you let them. But how was it that no adult heard what the conversation with the steward, from only a row behind? And on a safety note, I totally agree with the poster below re life jackets on an emergency. I know it's a small chance, but why take that chance? There is no way you could help all 4 children to locate & put on jackets, as only one adult would be able to stand at the end of the row.

I'm also slightly jealous, as we have to intersperse adults even in the cinema, to stop squabbles breaking out.

Redbindy Sun 07-Apr-13 20:05:37

Kirsty, perhaps the person who should be in trouble is the one who wasn't aware of her child's activities.

AnyoneforTurps Sun 07-Apr-13 20:06:01

If they are old enough to be sat together without adult supervision, they are old enough to have a hot drink. You can't have it both ways.

Exactly.

Bearbehind Sun 07-Apr-13 20:06:40

If there was a large group of you then even if you were in the toilet (again not sure how you can forget where you were whilst in a confined space when your child was injured) surely someone was watching what was happening with the children, there were 4 of them for goodness sake.

Actually not sure how many children there were, your last post implies 5 children - 10, 9, 12 and 8 plus your 6 year old sat in 4 seats?

Floggingmolly Sun 07-Apr-13 20:06:47

Absolutely, montage. If the kids were out of earshot of all adults, they were not being supervised at all. As to sitting in the seats you'd been allocated, what did you think would happen if you'd swopped with members of your own family?
There was nothing to stop you re arranging the seating to suit you better.

Isityouorme Sun 07-Apr-13 20:06:49

Sorry but I think you, as the parent are partly to blame for not supervising your child properly. The flight assistant is not a childminder and if she doesn't have kids, she won't be thinking about temperatures etc of drinks perhaps. Why did an older child not say anything, or the grandparents. Put it down to an accident on all parties. I hope she is all better soon.

LoveSewingBee Sun 07-Apr-13 20:07:05

I doubt that the staff member realised your dc's age. Nobody would do such a thing on purpose and I assume she has apologised?

I would leave it.

Maat Sun 07-Apr-13 20:07:07

As a matter of interest - did the crew member who came to your assistance record it in an accident book?

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 07-Apr-13 20:07:16

but according to the OP it's NOT normal procedure to give kids hot drinks without cooling them down a bit, so this particular air hostess made a mistake. It's not, realistically, one she's ever likely to make again, now that she's hurt a child, so that danger has well and truly passed.
it would only imo be vindictive to go after her now.
btw OP i don't think it's unusual for children to all want to sit together, or to be allowed to. but it's a bit weak to say that you didn't notice the clatter of the food trolley and all the attendant clamour of 'tea? coffee?' etc because you were reading. that definitely meant you were effectively absent, and so i think you share the blame. (as does your dh or any other adult in the group, i'm presuming you weren't the only adult?)

500internalerror Sun 07-Apr-13 20:07:43

X posted a lot there, sorry! Does the 6 yr old look quite grown up? I'm just thinking if the others wre older, the steward prob made an assumption about dd age?

YellowandGreenandRedandBlue Sun 07-Apr-13 20:09:30

I would complain/inform, not to get anything, but because I cant imagine the company policy would be other than to check with an adult, so the incident should be recorded I think.

LadyBeagleEyes Sun 07-Apr-13 20:10:46

I think it was carelessness on everybody's part but what do you want to happen if you complain?
I'm another one that hates this compensation culture.

kim147 Sun 07-Apr-13 20:10:47

I'm surprised there was no lid on the cup. Haven't been on a plane for ages but coffees on a train are served with lids on as they can be knocked easily.

It is health and safety - what if there had been some turbulence as she was serving the drink? It could have gone over another passenger who would have sued.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 07-Apr-13 20:11:04

x-posted. she really wouldn't have known it was a 6 year old. tbh dd1 is 7 and i would give her hot chocolate with no lid... i really think you have to chalk this one up to experience. (mind you, from your first post and the fact that you haven't complained yet, i think this is the way you are leaning anyway.)

CheCazzo Sun 07-Apr-13 20:11:49

I'd still like to know if the wound was bad enough to cause a blister and what your GP said when you took the child there immediately on your return?

Sirzy Sun 07-Apr-13 20:11:59

How many adults in your party? and not one of them was paying enough attention to know she was ordering a hot drink?

And I agree with the person who said if they are old enough to sit on their own they are old enough to have a hot drink, you can't have it both ways.

KansasCityOctopus Sun 07-Apr-13 20:12:25

If normal policy with young children is to seek permission from an adult and water it down and put a lid on, and NONE of these things were done.. then of course you should complain!!

Where they were sat and where you were sat isnt relevant.. the drink should have been refused the child until permission was obtained from an adult.

KirstyJC Sun 07-Apr-13 20:12:51

Or perhaps the person who should be in trouble is the one who didn't follow their own company's policy, as admitted by another member of staff?

And since the OP was given a seat away from her child by the airline, and didn't choose to sit elsewhere (so wasn't just not being arsed to look after her - nice comment there from another posterhmm) perhaps the airline staff should have been a bit more careful about ensuring they followed this policy.

If her DD was treated by staff for the burn, then presumably the airline will have logged the incident anyway. This isn't about blame, it is about ensuring something so potentially dangerous doesn't happen again. And presumably the airline is aware it might be dangerous as they have policies in place to ensure it doesn't happen. Which this person failed to follow. Resulting in a 6 year old with burns that needed treating and are still showing 5 days later. sad

No-one is suggesting the OP isn't responsible for her own child, but it is pretty hard to be responsible for something which you are unaware is happening due to other adults doing something dangerous without telling you.

montage Sun 07-Apr-13 20:13:01

There must be 5 children not 4 then? Or was the 12 year old not in the row with your daughter - makes it a bit less reasonable to serve them hot drinks if it was the 6,8,9 and 10 year olds.

You probably weren't in the loo or you would've noticed your dd had a hot chocolate when you came back. And you must have been back when it happened. Unless you were maybe asleep? I wouldn't just feel you are responsible for not noticing as it is surprising grandparents or other family didn't notice either.

TheChimpParadox Sun 07-Apr-13 20:13:23

OP - your DH want to make a complaint - what was he doing at the time ?

formicaqueen Sun 07-Apr-13 20:13:42

I think the steward should have given her a hot chocolate with extra cold milk. I would complain.

There must be some protocall about giving kids drinks/food on planes if they are sat seperatly to the adults.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 07-Apr-13 20:15:02

"Or perhaps the person who should be in trouble is the one who didn't follow their own company's policy, as admitted by another member of staff?"

why does anyone have to be 'in trouble'?

Groovee Sun 07-Apr-13 20:15:21

I ended up with a hot coffee over me thanks to an arrogant mother who taught her children her own atrocious manners. The cabin crew were serving drinks and her son came charging right up and smacked into the staff member holding the coffee. The mother got up on the commotion and refused to accept responsibility.

All the passengers were bitching about her as there had been incidents with her in the check in queue, the toilets, at burger king, in duty free, sitting on the plane. She kept ranting about her child having a wet tshirt! I asked the staff for a cup of coffee and they asked why and I responded "To chuck over her!" She soon sat down and didn't say a word getting off the plane.

At the arrivals door, she walked up to a teacher I worked with who introduced her as her sister. I told my colleague I would throw coffee over her if I ever saw her again. All I heard as I walked away was "Can't you ever manage not to upset people? If you've upset Groovee, you've been a right bitch!"

But this is why children need supervised on a plane. Age 6 isn't old enough to make full decisions with out an adult there. Next time, sit together with your children.

sapphirestar Sun 07-Apr-13 20:15:44

Even if the OP had sat next to her dd though, it wouldn't have affected the temperature of the drink. Regardless of where the OP sat, the drink would still have been hot enough to scald.
The staff should have least warned her it was very hot, perhaps offered a lid or extra milk but I agree they don't need to go searching for the parent. Same as restaurant staff warn you when the plates are very hot.

That said, I wouldn't complain now that it was several days ago. I would have said something at the time, just so they might do things differently with the next child, and chalk it up to experience. Burns are horrible, but your dd wasn't seriously injured.

maxbradbury Sun 07-Apr-13 20:15:50

Yes I did fill out an incident report.
The 10 year old wanted to sit with grandparents but the kids were swopping sits alot as It was a long flight.

Thank you for all your opinions. I'm not a shit mum but we all thought the kids would have more fun sat together.
My daughter does look quite young for her age so there is now way you could confuse her for someone older.

TheChimpParadox Sun 07-Apr-13 20:16:26

I still don't understand how the OP failed to notice the crew in front of her with trolley serving drinks and talking with her child if child was sat in row in front of her .

What did the doctor you took her to say?

MarshaBrady Sun 07-Apr-13 20:17:48

Your poor dd those aeroplane hot chocolates are usually so hot.

It was a mistake, it should have had a lid, agree about turbulence.

If there had been an emergency, how were you going to make sure your kids had life jackets and so on?

Since you weren't noticing very much, and neither was your DP.

kim147 Sun 07-Apr-13 20:18:56

Imagine if they had served food containing nuts to a child (or other allergy) DC would have been more than happy to have it without realising the consequences or checking.

That could have been a lot more serious - even though a burn is.

That's why procedures are in place and should be followed.

Bearbehind Sun 07-Apr-13 20:19:19

Seriously kirsty do you really think if the airline had allocated seats to the people in the party, that it was illegal or something to change the configuration to something more suitable.

The family were sitting less than 3 feet (probabnly less on ome airlines) behind these children and presumably got offered hot drink immediately after so how on earth could this not have been foreseen.

Why can't people take responsibility for their actions anymore? If the OP had agreed to the drink her daughter may have split it anyway - if the OP was in her house and a hot drink had been split there would be no one to blame.

Just let it go.

Always the point of complaining is to try and prevent the same thing happening to someone else. So yes definitely describe what happened in a letter. It helps the company to adjust their procedures to keep people safe. Did they not do an incident report on the flight?

So GP's in front, after presumably being offered a drink, didn't clock the children might also be offered one?

She was with older children, the youngest always looks older when with older children. I always struggle with ages, what age do the children look like? With family surrounding I think it was reasonable for the cabin crew to assume she was ok to go head and offer the drinks to the whole group. After all they had just spoken to other adults in the group.

usualsuspect Sun 07-Apr-13 20:20:53

I wouldn't complain.I would chalk it up to experience and make sure I knew what my kids were up to in future.

Sirzy Sun 07-Apr-13 20:21:58

Kim - all your point shows is why parents should be supervising their children.

Kim -exactly. A small child can't make a sensible choice all the time. Hence why a parent or other adult should have been in the same row. Keeping an eye on them.

maxbradbury Sun 07-Apr-13 20:25:09

Just to add I haven't taken her to the doctors as there is only a slight mark. There was no blistering and the crew member who treated her was fantastic.
I honestly do not remember the hot drinks being served. That obviously is my fault. My husband was asleep.

intheshed Sun 07-Apr-13 20:26:00

YANBU- I can totally imagine the situation, if for example we were travelling with my family, that my 5yo DD would want to sit with her older cousins. And I would probably let her!

It sounds like they were in the wrong and I would definitely complain, just to bring it to their attention.

It shouldn't have been hot enough to scald. What if the person holding the drink was perfectly capable normally of holding a drink and the plane hit turbulence?

kim147 Sun 07-Apr-13 20:27:02

It also shows someone who is serving food / drinks needs to take responsibility and use some common sense.

I could be on that plane. I could have gone to the toilet and left DS by himself. He's old enough.

They serve him a hot drink which he spills. Or food which he is allergic to.

Who's fault is that?

Chalk it up to experience then.

Seriously you should have been sitting with such a young child. Seems like there was a lot of adults so no real excuse.

Lesson learnt.

Bearbehind Sun 07-Apr-13 20:27:33

max just read that post back to yourself then decide if it is morally right to make a complaint........

montage Sun 07-Apr-13 20:28:24

Since you filled out an incident report and it wasn't serious enough to need medical attention I would certainly let it go then tbh.

Cosmosim Sun 07-Apr-13 20:28:35

I don't think this has anything to do with the age of the person drinking the hot drink.

No one should be served a drink so hot it leaves burns on skin on an airplane.

Ever!

What happens when there's turbulence?

thistlelicker Sun 07-Apr-13 20:29:12

So if ur admitting to being partly to blame what would u gain from complaining? Maybe the drink was part of meal and if u already consented to meal maybe they assumed they cud have the drink too!!!

And it's NOT all your fault.

Your husband should have been sharing the watching the kids.

KirstyJC Sun 07-Apr-13 20:29:44

'Why can't people take responsibility for their actions anymore?' You mean why can't the steward take responsibility for serving a scalding hot drink to an obviously young child without following their own procedures and resulting in her getting scalded?

Jeez, I'm leaving this now - you lot are completely mad. Seriously.

Sugarice Sun 07-Apr-13 20:29:49

I wouldn't complain.

A mixture of blame on both sides so not worth the effort in my opinion.

TheChimpParadox Sun 07-Apr-13 20:30:10

The burn didn't need any medical attention just 'first aid' given by the crew. OP doesn't even remember drinks being served hmm her DH was asleep .

Lesson learnt - leave it there .

GraceSpeaker Sun 07-Apr-13 20:30:23

Okay, well if your husband was asleep, you were definitely on duty.

kim147 Sun 07-Apr-13 20:30:24

cosmoism Exactly. Planes have a tendency to bounce.

Bearbehind Sun 07-Apr-13 20:33:22

kirsty the steward was in the wrong but so was the OP so no one is really to 'blame' it was an accident that could have been prevented by several parties so it should be put down to experience.

kim147 Sun 07-Apr-13 20:34:59

Would the OP have been to blame if it had been a single parent on holiday and they'd left the seat to go to the toilet?

Bugsylugs Sun 07-Apr-13 20:35:02

I would send a letter just so their procedures are re looked at. Why all this obsessing with seeing a Dr on landing very strange.

Incident forms were designed by the airline industry to prevent accidents and near misses, should be as a no blame culture and used for training. This is an ideal scenario and exactly why the op should write not necessarily complain so training is kept upto date. An accident form is not a incident form just saying do no one needs to point out an accident form was filled in.

DontSHOUTTTTTT Sun 07-Apr-13 20:35:03

Max.

Of course you are not a shit Mum for letting your kids sit together while you relax. It shows you are a good Mum that they are happy and well behaved enough to sit together smile I just think this type of accident is one of those things where it not really anyone's fault.
I wouldn't worry about it but I wouldn't report it.

aufaniae Sun 07-Apr-13 20:36:31

YANBU to complain.

Like a poster upthread says, it depends on what you want to get out of complaining, but in your shoes I definitely would.

This is not about whether you should or shouldn't have been sitting with the DCs. or what you could have done to prevent it. That's totally irrelevant in relation to whether you should make a complaint IMO.

It's a more general issue - should Cabin Crew give drinks which are hot enough to cause damage to DCs who are not being closely supervised by an adult? (On another occasion it might happen that the adult is in the toilet when Cabin Crew come round for example).

The answer to that is quite plainly no. The Cabin Crew member acted improperly - possibly simply because s/he isn't experienced with dealing with DCs. However that's not good enough. The actions of the Cabin Crew member led to your DC being injured. There is an obvious training need IMO. I would complain, and what I would want to get out of it was knowing that the company was taking genuine steps to make sure they don't put a child at risk in this way again.

birdsnotbees Sun 07-Apr-13 20:38:08

Why are so many posters being so mean to the OP? She's not after compensation, she's not trying to pull a fast one and she isn't an irresponsible parent - jeez, cut her some slack. Ain't never met a perfect parent yet - we all make mistakes (as the steward serving her DD clearly did).

AnyoneforTurps Sun 07-Apr-13 20:38:50

No one should be served a drink so hot it leaves burns on skin on an airplane. Ever!

Oh FFS, so none of us can have a tea or coffee now? Perhaps we should wear nappies on board too, in case turbulence hits while we're walking to the loo? wink.

A child can sustain a scald from 10 seconds' exposure to water at only 54 deg C so banning any drink that can scald means no hot drinks at all.

Bearbehind Sun 07-Apr-13 20:39:13

kim that's a totally irrelevant argument, if that situation had arisen I'm sure they would either have taken the child with them or informed the cabin crew of the situation.

OP and her party were in the wrong, as was the person serving the drink, why does someone have to be 'blamed'

kim147 Sun 07-Apr-13 20:39:46

"Oh FFS, so none of us can have a tea or coffee now? Perhaps we should wear nappies on board too, in case turbulence hits while we're walking to the loo?"

Without a lid on? Put a lid on and that reduces the risk.

Sirzy Sun 07-Apr-13 20:39:57

Would the OP have been to blame if it had been a single parent on holiday and they'd left the seat to go to the toilet? well given you can see they are coming up with the food/drinks before they get to you (unless you are on the first row) then yes it would be daft to leave your young child (especially if they have allergies and are too young to understand) when you can see the drinks/food is coming.

kim147 Sun 07-Apr-13 20:40:58

bearbehind If I was with DS on a plane, I would not tell the crew I was in the toilet.

I would also not expect them to serve him a hot drink. Especially without a lid on.

crashdoll Sun 07-Apr-13 20:41:20

birds There's no need to complain though. She is responsible for her child.

Bearbehind Sun 07-Apr-13 20:42:58

Well Kim, looks like this thread has taught you nothing whilst I think the OP has probably learnt from the situation.

usualsuspect Sun 07-Apr-13 20:44:17

Yes we all make mistakes, so no need to make a song and dance about it and complain is there?

kim147 Sun 07-Apr-13 20:45:23

The cabin crew also said it was not company policy to serve hot drinks without a lid on to an unaccompanied minor.

So policy was broken. If I had done anything like that at school that resulted in a serious accident, I would be in serious trouble. I would complain just to ensure that it does not happen again and no other child gets burnt.

The company may have recorded it but it would take a complaint to ensure cabin crew are reminded. It does not matter that you were there or not.

kim147 Sun 07-Apr-13 20:46:49

bearbehind You can't be with your DCs all the time. I expect someone dealing with them to use some common sense.

Serving hot chocolate without a lid on is not common sense.

OnwardBound Sun 07-Apr-13 20:46:53

I am amazed that so many posters are saying YABU OP.

Really?

This miraculous thing called 'supervision' was somehow meant to pre-empt 6 year old being served a scalding hot drink which splashed on her and left marks that are still there 5 days later.

The steward was negligent imo serving a drink that hot to a child.

How was the OP meant to mind read that the steward would do something so stupid on a moving aircraft? hmm

apostropheuse Sun 07-Apr-13 20:47:38

I am quite frankly astonished that neither the parents nor grandparents took notice of two flight attendants with a drinks trolley clattering along a narrow aeroplane aisle, stopping beside them and offering drinks to all around them.

The grandparents were in the row in front of the children and the parents in the row behind. There is no way that none of those adults noticed what was going on. Not a chance. They are the ones who should have taken the decision as to whether the child was allowed a hot drink.

It doesn't sound as if the drink could have been all that hot if there is no real damage done to be honest.

I was burned by a hot cup of tea as a child, resulting in a six week stay in hospital with severely burned skin and scarring, which I still have now, so I'm not trivialising the damage that can be caused. In this case there wasn't any last damage.

Oh and incidentally, it was also my mother's fault that I was burned.

topsyandturvy Sun 07-Apr-13 20:49:15

some replies are ridiculous, why should the op have thought it necessary to sit in the row with the children in order to keep them "safe" on a plane?????

thistlelicker Sun 07-Apr-13 20:49:27

If the parents and grandparents were in front and behind that means the crew were directly on side with each aisle of the parents and the truck thing in line with the kids. Seems the op can't admit responsibility

OnwardBound Sun 07-Apr-13 20:49:31

Oh and I would complain too.

Not to 'get someone in trouble' but to make the airline aware that this accident occurred and that children should never be served scalding hot drinks and especially not without a lid... in a MOVING aircraft.

Common sense innit.

Bearbehind Sun 07-Apr-13 20:50:13

Neither is leaving your child unattended whilst hot food and drinks are being served kim.

FFS why does someoe have to be blamed for a mistake which was partially created by your own actions. It's no wonder the world is becoming full of litigious, money grabbing chancers.

LadyBeagleEyes Sun 07-Apr-13 20:50:52

Yes, it was a very unpleasant accident.
I can't believe the number of people that feel that it's reasonable to jump in and complain though, it was dealt with at the time, and was probably put in the accident book.
Surely that should be it.

kim147 Sun 07-Apr-13 20:51:23

Maybe the parents did not expect their DC to request a hot drink.
And probably did not expect that hot drink to be served on a moving plane subject to turbulence without a lid on.

MissYamabuki Sun 07-Apr-13 20:52:58

I fly frequently and whenever I have a cup of tea it's served with a lid and so hot you can't go anywhere near it for 10 minutes, let alone drink it. If you spilt one of those on your skin yes it would cause damage. I find it odd that other posters say they've never had a hot drink on a plane.
OP: Yes I'd contact the company to let them know that they didn't follow their own procedures - ie not necessarily complain but just explain what happened. But you are also right in thinking that the responsibility for supervising your child is ultimately yours.

kim147 Sun 07-Apr-13 20:53:24

If you don't complain, things don't get taken seriously and get ignored.
Then accidents happen again. It's not too difficult to ensure that drinks get served with lids on and if it takes a complaint, so what.

TheChimpParadox Sun 07-Apr-13 20:53:48

Could anyone explain how you can miss/not see/not hear a trolley on an aircraft that is serving drinks to row in front of you and talking to the passengers ? Unless you are fast asleep ?

Hulababy Sun 07-Apr-13 20:54:49

When we travelled with Virgin the cabin crew would not let DD and her two friends sit together without an adult sat next to them. I assume it is for reasons like this.

Hulababy Sun 07-Apr-13 20:59:43

Have never had a lid on a cup of hot drink on planes - its normally just in a cup with a handle.

Sirzy Sun 07-Apr-13 21:00:23

all a lid does is keep it hot for longer anyway!

dearcathyandclare Sun 07-Apr-13 21:00:32

Hi OP,
I think you should put this down to experience, but also write a factual letter to the airline expressing your concern that children should not be served without the parents' express consent. I could foresee a situation where a child requests something from a helpful cabin crew member that the child is not allowed, for a whole range of reasons.

maxbradbury Sun 07-Apr-13 21:01:03

We flew with virgin.

I am not a money grabber

I just want them to take note when serving hot drinks to children

kim147 Sun 07-Apr-13 21:02:04

maxbradbury Exactly - it's possible to complain without wanting money. Just reassurance.

CheCazzo Sun 07-Apr-13 21:02:34

When all's said and done OP you'd have less than zero chance of compensation anyway since you failed to take your child to a doctor on your return. That would be the first thing their lawyers would ask.

50shadesofvomit Sun 07-Apr-13 21:03:10

I think yabu and yanbu.

Im surprised that the grandparents (who were presumably asked if they wanted a hot drink) did not hear the stewardess ask your 6 year old if she wanted one. Out of the 4 adults, one should have noticed really.

My 6 year old is Mr Bump in human form so I would have asked for a half filled cup or moved to sit with him to supervise.

If the airline had lids Id be miffed that they had forgotten to give my child one but if she dropped the drink because the cup was hot, she would have been burned if the lid came off on impact or the holes for drinking from. Admittedly it would be less than an unlidded cup but a burn nonetheless

Was the cup plastic or ceramic? Plastic cup would be harder to use. Was it hot choc made from milk or the type made with hot water. J find that the latter is much hotter than the former so would have to wait longer for it to cool.

Norem Sun 07-Apr-13 21:03:16

I don't think it matters where mum and dad were, at he loo, asleep or whatever.
The airline has a contract with the child as an individual.
The individual was injured because the crew member did not follow protocol for serving hot drinks to children.
I would complained to highlight the problem.

AnyoneforTurps Sun 07-Apr-13 21:04:00

Have never had a lid on a cup of hot drink on planes - its normally just in a cup with a handle.

Depends on the poshness of the airline. BA, Virgin etc don't have lids because they serve the drinks in normal cups. Budget airlines where you have to pay extra serve them in Starbucks-type cups with lids.

I'm grin at people assuming there is some massive safety issue with serving drinks without lids. I'm sure that, if passengers were being scalded by the dozen, all airlines would use lids.

Bearbehind Sun 07-Apr-13 21:04:25

A complaint implies you want some kind of recompense though, IMO feedback would be fine- you admit your part in the situation but state you hope they learn from it too.

AnyoneforTurps Sun 07-Apr-13 21:05:32

The airline has a contract with the child as an individual.

Not unless the child paid for her own ticket.

Hulababy Sun 07-Apr-13 21:06:16

Even the last Jet2 and EasyJet flights I used had cups without lids for hot drinks.

As I said before too - in our experience children were not allowed to sit alone without an adult - the children were 7 or 8 iirr.

Bunbaker Sun 07-Apr-13 21:10:00

I didn't know you could get hot chocolate on a plane.

Tigglette Sun 07-Apr-13 21:10:37

The airline doesn't have a contract with a 6 year old because they can't legally enter into a contract. The contract is with the parent, who should have been supervising the children, I can't see what's to be gained from complaining - children that young should really have been supervised.

MarshaBrady Sun 07-Apr-13 21:11:06

I thought it was coffee / tea normal cups. Hot chocolate with lid.

The coffee is rarely too hot but I remember thinking god this hot choc is hot, having to wait.

Or I could be mixing all the budget / non budget together.

MissSkinnyLegs Sun 07-Apr-13 21:12:23

I'm really confused with -

Cabin crew come through serving hot drinks and I have my nose in a book so do not notice

To be honest I dont even remember the drinks cart coming round. I don't know if I was in the loo at the time.

Because they really seem to conflict...

TheChimpParadox Sun 07-Apr-13 21:12:51

Perhaps the cabin crew get fed up of 'Tea?' 'Coffee?' 100 times up and down the aisle and like to throw in (in this case quite possibly) a 'Hot chocolate?'

MissSkinnyLegs Sun 07-Apr-13 21:13:26

I didn't know you could get hot chocolate on a plane.

grin

Actually me either.

crashdoll Sun 07-Apr-13 21:13:35

"I just want them to take note when serving hot drinks to children."

You also did not take note. A complaint would be hypocritical but a polite letter suggesting not serving a drink without parental permission might be ok. Perhaps the air steward assumed you had noticed and were fine with it. I think you were mostly to blame tbh.

ChunkyPickle Sun 07-Apr-13 21:14:10

YANBU - If I, as an adult, was given a drink hot enough to scald on a plane I would be shocked - both that it even happened, and because planes aren't the most stable of environments - elbows get jostled, cabin people fidget in the seats in front and behind etc. Drinks are spilled all the time and they shouldn't be able to do an injury.

Make a complaint, let it be known that it concerns you - if people aren't told then nothing will be done to fix the issue in future.

WorraLiberty Sun 07-Apr-13 21:14:29

Maybe she was reading her book in the loo?

That's why there's always a blood queue! wink

topsyandturvy Sun 07-Apr-13 21:16:13

op isnt asking for compensation though is she

we should all know that a polite letter which you hope the airline will take note of and act upong will actualy most likely be binned after they write and say sorry madam

op is not being unreasonable in expecting her "complaint" to result in retraining or a change of policy, the accident could have been very serious indeed

MrsJK Sun 07-Apr-13 21:19:35

Sorry that your DD was injured however as crew I know accidents do happen.

Lids are often not required if cups carry a "caution hot liquid" type of warning - however one should use their own judgment especially when serving children ( no brainier really)

Just to add water temperature on an aircraft is lower so wouldn't have been "boiling" to start with so hopefully hasn't caused as much damage as normally would.

I do hope she recovers fully soon smile

Altinkum Sun 07-Apr-13 21:20:02

I think you should complain, irrespective if you weren't watching you're child, the crew made a decision to give a child a scalding drink, without a lid or using there common sense, so that should be avoided, and it won't be avoided if nobody raises it.

Bearbehind Sun 07-Apr-13 21:22:53

It has been raised, the OP filled in an incident form. Why would less be done about that than a complaint letter dealt with in some customer service centre? I'm sure the member of staff who did it won't do it again so what good does banging on about it do?

apostropheuse Sun 07-Apr-13 21:25:31

If the drink truly was "scalding hot" the child would have most likely had been left with severe burns, or at least be bad enough burning to merit a visit to the GP, or even A & E, when the plane landed.

As the member of crew staff mentioned earlier, it was very likely not as hot as a drink you would make at home.

ChippingInIsEggceptional Sun 07-Apr-13 21:33:12

It doesn't matter one bit where you were sitting OP, or that the kids were all together or anything else that people are judging you for hmm - the only thing that's relevant here is that some fuckwit gave a child a very very hot drink... idiotic.

I don't know if I'd bother writing or doing anything tbh because I doubt they'd do much with it - but if you have the energy then it can't hurt.

Floggingmolly Sun 07-Apr-13 21:37:52

Op, you didn't think the wound needed medical attention on leaving the plane, it can hardly have been significant.
If you complain to "helpfully" suggest they don't serve drinks to minors, they may reply with the equally helpful suggestion that you supervise your child more closely in future. Let it go.

SemiDetached Sun 07-Apr-13 21:45:35

What a strange lot of responses you've had OP. Has the Helicopter Parenting Society invaded?

It would have been great fun for the children to sit together, and it is not necessary to watch your child 100% of the time. I actually laughed out loud at the suggestion that a single parent would take their child to the toilet with them! I am a single parent, and I'd be more than happy to let my children remain in their seats, on an enclosed airplane, at 30,000 feet, while I went for a pee in a toilet only slightly larger than my ass.

I would not make an official complaint, but I would write an informative letter, highlighting what happened. Hopefully this way, some training can be provided. The cabin crew should know that you don't hand a cup full of boiling hot liquid to a young child. Not sure why this is such a difficult concept for some posters to recognise. confused

OneHundredSecondsofSolitude Sun 07-Apr-13 21:46:56

Hot chocolate is hot shocker!

GreenEggsAndNichts Sun 07-Apr-13 21:48:21

Send in a complaint. Do it politely, but say that you were surprised that your 6 yr old was served such a hot drink.

I understand people are blaming you for not paying attention, so okay, lets issue you your blame and your 50 lashes. However, a 6 yr old should not be served a hot hot chocolate. Even if you were wide awake and vigilant as ofc every mother is all the time hmm, I'd expect that they'd make the drink with some cold milk to temper the heat. Once upon a time, I worked in restaurants, and that is how we served hot chocolate to children. And that was on terra firma.

Go ahead and say you aren't expecting a resolution to this beyond making sure that staff know their own procedure for serving 'hot' drinks to youngsters. They must need some review, and sending in a formal complaint is the only way this might happen.

plinkyplonks Sun 07-Apr-13 21:50:53

I really don't understand why you should complain? Your children are ultimately your responsibility. Shouldn't you have been sitting next to them rather than leaving them unaccompanied?

LadyBeagleEyes Sun 07-Apr-13 21:53:45

Well I think complaining is a bit Helicopter Parenting really, it seemed to be done and dusted on the flight.
I don't see what anybody would gain unless they wanted some type of monetary award.
And it's still up to parents to keep an eye out, not the air crew.

Growlithe Sun 07-Apr-13 22:33:47

I've just been on holiday flying with Virgin. They did serve hot chocolate in paper cups without lids. They only half fill the fairly large cups.

There are a number of reasons why I wouldn't have let my DCs sit alone, especially this mix of age groups. I like to supervise with food. Even without hot drinks, those hot meal trays are a bit of a hazard when you are pulling off the foil lids. I can't imagine a 6 year old not struggling with this, and I wouldn't expect a slightly older child to have to take responsibility.

Also, Virgin flights have the personal entertainment TV things. There are two options on the menu, one is 'Just for Kids' and one with every option, for adults. There is nothing to stop a child selecting the adult option, my 9 year old did it by mistake. For April, one of the films on offer was apparently about a plane crash hmm, others had sex scenes - I would have wanted to leave a child unsupervised with this access.

Then there is the obvious one of emergencies - life jackets etc.

I can't see why, wherever you are on the plane, if you were awake you wouldn't have noticed the drinks trolley. If you are at the toilet they always get in your way. They are so slow coming down the aisle you are aware of them. As well as this they are a double row in depth so one steward would have been serving either the grandparents row or your own at the same time as the children's row.

I just don't get how the drink could have been served with no adult in the party noticing, unless you were all asleep, and if so of course YABU.

TheChaoGoesMu Sun 07-Apr-13 22:40:22

YANBU. Ridiculous. Your child might be sensible enough to sit in a seat with her friends, but I wouldn't expect an adult to come and hand her a cup of boiling liquid to pour over herself. No common sense at all. I would certainly complain.

maxbradbury Sun 07-Apr-13 22:44:07

I was aware of the entertainment system and I did supervise this and made sure they were on the children's bit. I did also supervise the meals but I missed the hot drinks. They were not offered any on the outbound flight so again I assumed they wouldn't be inbound. So calm down dear. I'm not that dumb.

Growlithe Sun 07-Apr-13 22:47:03

But the hot drinks were always served about 10 minutes after the meals were cleared up? Both outbound and inbound. So surely if you had supervised the meal you would have been around for the drink?

maxbradbury Sun 07-Apr-13 22:52:59

Nope I missed the hot drinks. This is my honest answer. I can't remember them being served but I do remember not being offered one. I can only think that she burnt herself immediately after being given the drink. But I honestly do not remember the cart. It was about 11pm.

CheCazzo Sun 07-Apr-13 22:53:11

All you saying 'boiling' liquid, very very hot drink, scalding drink etc - please note - had the drink been any of these things the child would have suffered significant burns requiring at the very least a visit to the GP on landing. The OP has said there was no blistering and a GP visit was not necessary - in which case it is surely safe to assume that the drink was at best slightly hotter than 'warm' and certainly not in the 'thermo-nuclear' category.

maxbradbury Sun 07-Apr-13 22:55:20

If the burn was treated immdiately (with some gel type thing) would it still burn? She isn't a whinny child but she did really scream. It must of hurt her.

maxbradbury Sun 07-Apr-13 22:55:53

Sorry meant would it still blister?

clam Sun 07-Apr-13 22:57:22

OK, so suppose you had been sitting with your child when she asked for/was offered a hot drink. Would you have said yes? In which case, who would you have blamed when she then spilt it over herself?
And if you are particular about potential accidents/spillages with hot drinks, and would have said no, then I think your internal radar ought to have alerted you to the fact that the hot drinks trolley was on its way round.
I too think it's nice for the kids to sit together on a flight, but you still need to be aware of what's going on, and ready to intervene if squabbles break out/food needs supervising. You say you were doing this, in which case I'd say it was still up to you to notice the hot drinks. Or, if you'd been up and down and busy doing this a lot already, you could have woken up your husband and got him to take a turn on duty.

Growlithe Sun 07-Apr-13 22:58:14

Sorry, I don't doubt you, but I can't get my head round how they could be serving the children without serving one of the rows of adults at the same time because of the double depth trolley.

Also, those drinks were at best luke warm. I know because I was drinking tea. I assumed this was a health and safety thing.

Suttonmum1 Sun 07-Apr-13 23:01:36

Blame is 50/50 but a more practical idea is to write a letter explaining incident and if Virgin have any sort of Air Miles type loyalty scheme be sure to give you loyalty club details. Hopefully you will then get a good wodge of points by return post. Has worked for husband with a faulty hot water system in a hotel and a faulty TV on a plane recently. They are much more likely to give compensation that way.

Actually for a plane incident they sometimes give out cards where they detail the incident and sign it so you have some proof.

maxbradbury Sun 07-Apr-13 23:05:32

I accept I missed the hot drinks cart but it really could not of been lukewarm for her reaction to have been that way and also her leggings that we took off straight away felt very warm.

I did not leave them the whole flight to behave like animals but as I said I missed the cart.

apostropheuse Sun 07-Apr-13 23:10:18

I would be extremely surprised if a truly boiling hot drink did not require any medical attention whatsoever when you got home.

As I said earlier, I spent six weeks in hospital with exactly the same thing and have been scarred all my life because of it.

Your daughter could have screamed because it was warm, even if not boiling, and she also probably got a fright.

Just be glad that she's fine now and won't have any repercussions from it please.

TheChaoGoesMu Sun 07-Apr-13 23:12:06

No it wouldn't always blister op if treated asap.

Sirzy Sun 07-Apr-13 23:13:07

Max how many adults where in your party?

Even if you managed to miss them bringing the drinks i struggle to believe that not one of the party noticed

Tigglette Sun 07-Apr-13 23:15:08

Yes, if the drink had been scalding it would have blistered despite treatment, the treatment gel stuff reduces pain but blistering is the skins natural defence/damage process and would have happened had the drink been hot enough. My husband got a very bad scald from boiling water and blistered almost immediately, treatment reduced the pain but it still blistered, needed hospital treatment and left scarring.

aufaniae Sun 07-Apr-13 23:16:55

It sounds like the Cabin Crew dealt with the incident very effectively. Although I would complain (as I said above) solely to try to help prevent this happening to another child, I would also specify that it's only the serving of the hot drink I had an issue with, and would make sure to praise the Cabin Crew for their effective response, as this is important information IMO.

maxbradbury Sun 07-Apr-13 23:17:38

There were six adults in total. I can only think grandparent who sat in front assumed I would deal with it which obviously I didn't.

The drink may not of been red hot but hot enough to hurt her and leave a red mark straight after.

I just want to give feedback the virgin and I've learnt my lesson to look out for the bloody hot drinks cart.

Growlithe Sun 07-Apr-13 23:33:19

TBH I can't believe your seating arrangement passed the cabin check as it is against Virgin policy on travelling with children unless you are in Upper Class, in which case I wouldn't have expected a disposable cup with or without lid.

landofsoapandglory Sun 07-Apr-13 23:44:52

I spilt a red hot cup of coffee on my mother when I was a child. When she removed her T-shirt and bra, a layer of skin came with it. She required hospital treatment and special dressings for around 3 months. She still has the scars over 30 years later. As your DD only has a slight mark 5 days down the line, I doubt the drink was boiling hot.

I think you should have had an adult sitting with the the children. Had there have been an emergency, your party would have been a hindrance whilst you all shuffled about to be able to assist your DC with life jackets, etc.

I am slightly puzzled as to how anyone on a plane can miss a drinks trolley passing by, TBH!

maxbradbury Sun 07-Apr-13 23:57:57

I never said the drink was boiling hot.
The fact is I missed the cart and my daughter was given a drink hot enough to make her scream and leave a mark.
I'm sure if the plane was crashing down I would of been able to step up reach for her life jacket underneath. I was able to make sure they had belts on when needed.
I do not regret sitting behind them but regret missing the cart.
I'm not perfect and I have been honest.
Thank you for all your comments smile

Growlithe Mon 08-Apr-13 00:07:06

I think if you were to complain, you would not only get the person who served the drink into trouble, but the whole crew because of how you were allowed to be seated.

I wonder if you could reach the lifejacket if it was dark which would be possible. Especially as you can miss a drinks cart so easily.

maxbradbury Mon 08-Apr-13 00:09:20

Oh FFs

Wibblypiglikesbananas Mon 08-Apr-13 00:10:34

There are things about this story that don't quite add up. I used to work for a major airline (not Virgin) and I'd be surprised that drinks were served so hot as to scald. You're often lucky to get a lukewarm cup of tea!

Its not unusual for the higher end carriers to use proper cups rather than cardboard cups with plastic lids, so that rings true. However, there's no way you would be allocated seats in the formation described here. Did you swap seats amongst yourselves?

All that said, if I'd been flying and saw children who appeared to be unaccompanied, there's no way I would have given them a drink, hot or not, without checking with their parents. There are too many risks in terms of allergies etc for a start. Whilst the crew seem to have acted appropriately after the event, they shouldn't really have given this to your daughter without checking. Did you challenge this on board? What did the cabin manager/service director say?

I guess you need to decide what you want to happen next and it's hard to say you're without blame as it seems to me that swapping seats may have been the root cause. If you'd been closer to your daughter, this likely wouldn't have happened.

kim147 - lots of airlines don't carry nuts due to allergies. My old employer didn't.

clam Mon 08-Apr-13 00:14:43

"If you'd been closer to your daughter, this likely wouldn't have happened."

Hmm, well actually, that's what I was driving at earlier. I think it might well have done. I asked if you had been sitting next to your daughter, agreed she could have the hot drink and then she'd spilled it, who would have been blamed then?

Bartlebee Mon 08-Apr-13 00:16:15

I'm sorry op, but as some

maxbradbury Mon 08-Apr-13 00:22:37

Clam I wouldn't of let her have it no.

Bartlebee Mon 08-Apr-13 00:24:26

Aargh bloody ipad! As someone that flies a lot with kids, I can't imagine leaving a 6 yr old to sit with other kids on a flight.

At this age, they are totally your responsibility. We only let ours sit together at 9 & 13 and that was only for half of a long flight.

I feel sorry for the cabin crew, who can't really be blamed - they're not childminders. You should have been vigilant if you chose it to sit with your child.

Bartlebee Mon 08-Apr-13 00:25:42

Not to sit... iPad not cooperating.

Wibblypiglikesbananas Mon 08-Apr-13 00:27:49

clam - that's a fair point. I guess what I'm saying is if the OP complains re the child being given a drink unsupervised, Virgin could easily come back and say they should have been supervised and why had their parent allowed them to sit in an incorrect seat, against safety policy?

As I said, I doubt very much that the drink was as hot as described. The water heating facilities on a number of aircraft don't even go up to boiling point. If the burns were as bad as described, I would be very surprised.

Re your more specific point, I suppose it's up to parents to determine whether their child is capable of managing a hot drink. And when I say that, I mean all things being equal, no risk of turbulence, nothing untoward happening. After that, it's an accident plain and simple, just as it would be with an adult. Sometimes there is no one to 'blame'.

grovel Mon 08-Apr-13 00:32:41

Agree with Wibblypiglikesbananas.

MTSgroupie Mon 08-Apr-13 00:46:27

I like my tea to be freshly boiled hot but in.all my years of air travel I have never had a hot cup of tea or coffee on a plane. I asked a friend who works as Cathay Pacific cabin staff whether this had something to do with the attitude (water boils at a lower temperature the higher you go). She laughed and said that it was to do with minimiu their exposureg with regards to insurance claims. It just takes one jolt of turbulence for a plane load of passengers to sue the airline for having scalding cups of tea or coffee dumped on their laps.

Ok, to a 6 year old anything hot is going to be major but I doubt that it was scalding hot for the reason that I mentioned above

IThinkOfHappyWhenIThinkOfYou Mon 08-Apr-13 00:54:14

YABU If I was sitting next to my dd on a plane and she was offered a hot chocolate she would take it and if she spilled it she wouldn't be any less hurt than if I hadn't been asked. If it had been hot beyond the realms of all reason then she would have been more seriously hurt. I also have never had a lid on a cup on a plane and I wouldn't give my 6yo a lidded cup in normal circs. Its just an ordinary unfortunate accident that isn't going to be prevented from happening again unless hot drinks are banned altogether which is unlikely. Lidded cups keep the drink hot longer and encourage arseing about.

Allergies are a different issue. Dcs with allergies don't suddenly start stuffing themselves with things that will kill them because they are being doled out by a woman in bright lipstick.

Morloth Mon 08-Apr-13 00:57:19

Both parties were unreasonable.

You should have been supervising and they shouldn't have given her a hot drink.

I wouldn't allow a 6 year old to sit anywhere other than directly next to a responsible adult on a plane.

cumfy Mon 08-Apr-13 01:05:59

Unprofessional aircrew.

SatsukiKusukabe Mon 08-Apr-13 01:42:08

I'd complain. why didn't they ask you first? I'd not be paying attention either because us wouldn't expect adults to think giving a 6 year old a hot drink in her was a good idea.

BadLad Mon 08-Apr-13 02:01:09

I have never had a lid on a hot drink on a plane. Usually the crew go around with tea and coffee in each hand, and pour it straight into the cup which I place on a tray for them.

I flew Glasgow to Dublin about nine years ago, can't remember which airline, but it was definitely a cheapo. Anyway, I had a coffee, I drink mine black. It was served in a Starbucks type cup with lid, and was still very warm when we landed. The flight was approx 40 minutes, and for most of the flight it was too hot to drink. This was even more awkward as I was traveling with my 3mth and 24mth old children, alone.

Just mentioning this as the coffee on that flight would definitely have been hot enough to do damage. This was a long while back though so things may well have changed now.

Mutley77 Mon 08-Apr-13 04:57:38

Sorry I simply can't see how you think that this is anyone's responsibility but your own. I am sure cabin crew aren't trained to work directly with children - and therefore may well not know what ages children can do certain things. The reason being that parents (or guardians) are fully responsible for their own children on a flight.

Had this happened in a school or kids club or somewhere that someone had taken responsibility for your child you would have every leg to stand on and a complaint would be totally reasonable.

In this instance it sounds like your DD was sitting with older children and the cabin crew would likely have felt in a difficult position if they were having drinks and then questioning your DD who also wanted one - they may not have realised exactly what age she was. If it was not obvious who the responsible adult was, I can't see how you can suggest they should have sought permission. Yes it would have been great if they had but an expectation that they do when you were not paying attention and had let your DD sit on her own is not correct in my view.

edwardsmum11 Mon 08-Apr-13 07:10:02

Yabu, your responsible for looking after your child.

SamuelWestsMistress Mon 08-Apr-13 07:26:14

Go on, sue them! Contribute to the popular culture that drives the cost up of everything and means that lawyers can afford to feed their family naice ham.

Roshbegosh Mon 08-Apr-13 07:26:28

It was your responsibility to look after your child. Simple.

OnwardBound Mon 08-Apr-13 08:14:57

OP, I bet you wished you'd never posted now!

There are some very odd points of view here and an obsession with thinking that if you had been sitting next to your 6 year old this accident wouldn't have happened. And how could you have missed the drinks trolley coming through as no-one in the history of flying has ever ever ever missed a drinks trolley hmm

So say that were the case, and you were sitting next to child, and for arguments sake you said that yes she could have a hot chocolate...

Then the 6 year old [not 2 or 3 year old] might still have spilt the 'too hot' hot chocolate and hurt herself.

How would OP sitting next to her child and noticing the drinks trolley have solved this issue? I guess she could have said no to the girl having a hot chocolate but why? Children have hot chocolate made by parents and cafes all the time. Or she could have held the cup to the girl's lips for her but she is 6 years old, not 2, so again why?

So maybe, just maybe then the OP should let the airline know of this incident and that cabin crew should really offer hot chocolate to children that has been cooled down with milk and also perhaps has a lid on it.

Why is this so hard for some of you to understand?

The poster who said that the OP would not be able to locate the life jackets in the event of a plane crash due to being sat behind child and having nose stuck in a book really takes the biscuit hmm and biscuit

FreshLeticia Mon 08-Apr-13 08:17:22

Why did your daughter tell herself off?
I think you mean scalded , OP.
biscuit

OnwardBound Mon 08-Apr-13 08:22:30

Oh seriously Leticia, 200 plus messages in and you don't think that OPs typo has been mentioned before?

OP, I think I need to leave this thread now as I am getting too irritated on your behalf.

Good luck with your complaint/feedback if you choose to go down that route.

SoupDragon Mon 08-Apr-13 08:24:46

Yes, I would complain. Not to get any compensation but to ensure their own policy is properly implemented on all occasions.

The other staff member said it was policy to ask an adult, cool down the drink and put a lid on.

I have been on many flights with paper cup type drinks which are scalding hot.

yousankmybattleship Mon 08-Apr-13 08:25:40

It has been said before, but I'll say it again. Your child, your responsibility. You should have been looking after her properly instead of just opting our and reading a book. There is no complaint to be made.

SoupDragon Mon 08-Apr-13 08:29:52

There is no complaint to be made.

Apart from the fact that the staff member admitted a mistake had been made and they hadn't followed their own normal procedure when serving a young child.

Growlithe Mon 08-Apr-13 08:31:46

They hadn't followed their own normal procedure by allowing the children to travel without sitting next to a guardian over 16. This was the more serious breach.

SoupDragon Mon 08-Apr-13 08:35:57

That didn't result in a scald though.

Oh absolutely you must complain.

To ensure that airlines enforce their rules so that parents/carers cant abdicate their responsibility for their own children, and then make an outcry if there is an issue. hmm

Growlithe Mon 08-Apr-13 08:40:05

It could have resulted in any number of mishaps.

SoupDragon Mon 08-Apr-13 08:41:57

It's 50/50.

It wouldn't have happened had the member of staff followed procedure wrt the hot drink
It wouldn't have happened had the OP been sitting next to her DD.

I suspect the OP has learnt and won't do it again. A letter of complaint would help ensure staff members perhaps don't do it again.

JenaiMorris Mon 08-Apr-13 08:51:32

Not to complain as such, but to raise the issue I think you should write to the airline, yes.

fwiw assuming the children were well behaved I really don't see the issue with them sitting away from you, OP, and I'm a bit hmm at the implication that other posters have made regarding your level of supervision.

malteserzz Mon 08-Apr-13 08:55:22

I agree with people who have said that she is your responsibility and you should have either sat with her or at least be listening out for her

Growlithe Mon 08-Apr-13 09:00:54

If not one of six adults sitting in the close confinement of 3 plane rows did not hear a 6 yo ordering a hot chocolate, then yes I would question the level of supervision. hmm

differentnameforthis Mon 08-Apr-13 09:17:30

I think a 6yr should be with a parent, to be honest & you should have been paying attention. When I flew with my 4 & 9 yr old, I took their plates first & unwrapped their food as the food is always bloody hot. It is my responsibility to look after my children.

Just who were supposed to help the children with their food and drink if they were not sitting next to any adult?

LadyBeagleEyes Mon 08-Apr-13 12:10:29

When will people accept that accidents, yes it was an Accident, will happen.
I get so sick of this blame culture.
Wasn't like this in my day.
<old gimmer>
<mutters>

JenaiMorris Mon 08-Apr-13 12:10:59

Bearing in mind the youngest was 6 and the eldest 12, ordinarily they wouldn't need any help with their food and drink, surely?

Clearly both she and I are proven wrong by what actually happened, I just don't think it was something one would have anticipated. For sure it pays to expect the unexpected with children but there's not much that can go wrong in the confines of a plane.

Oh, I do think the OP is proof that a 6 year old needs help with their food and drink. Clearly.

Wibblypiglikesbananas Mon 08-Apr-13 12:18:25

onwardbound - are you the OP?!

As former cabin crew, actually, the extra few seconds it would take to locate a life jacket for a child not seated next to its parents could make all the difference in an emergency situation. We used to have 180 seconds to get 400 people off an escape slide. Yes, three short minutes. If you've landed on water and the plane is filling up rapidly, you could well be talking the difference between life and death.

OP - if you come back, what type of plane were you flying on? As I'd be interested to know who is manufacturing planes these days that have the ability to produce boiling hot drinks...

Wibblypiglikesbananas Mon 08-Apr-13 12:20:15

Exactly ladybeagleeyes - as I said up thread, sometimes there is no one to blame.

nethunsreject Mon 08-Apr-13 12:22:20

What LadyBeagleEyes said - it was an accident.

Passmethecrisps Mon 08-Apr-13 12:23:40

Blimey. I am sure the OP would notice the plan crashing to the ground. How ridiculous.

I think there is joint responsibility here with the final responsibility falling on OP probably. However, I would write to the company to explain what happened and just to make them aware.

My DH received a really nasty burn in a cafe with self-service soup. He was given treatment but he took full responsibility. However, the company took an incident report and changed their policy re the soup.

So I think OP WBU to complain but WNBU to inform the company

Floggingmolly Mon 08-Apr-13 12:28:41

Your DH took full responsibility for scalding himself, Passme?
What's your point, exactly? Who else's responsibility could it possibly have been?

Growlithe Mon 08-Apr-13 12:37:15

Passme yes the OP would notice the plane crashing if it happened. But then the OP would have to get out of her seat, block the aisle whilst standing at the children's row, get the life jackets from under the seats whilst the children were sitting in the seats, and get them all kitted out.

If she was sitting with the child, she would be able to do this quicker and causing less obstruction.

I know it's absolutely worst case scenario, but there are reasons why the airlines want you to sit with your children. It's not just to annoy you.

Passmethecrisps Mon 08-Apr-13 12:38:31

Eh. I think I was just saying that just because something is your fault it is still worth contacting the company to let them know the accident happened.

Bearbehind Mon 08-Apr-13 12:40:07

I'd love to read the complaint letter:-

I was sitting less than 3 feet behind my child when, on either side of me a total of 4 members of the cabin crew along with 2 trolleys which filled the aisle, moved along the aircraft passing out drinks to people all around me at just above eye level however I did not notice any of this happening at all as I clearly was not paying enough attention or adequately supervising my child.

My child was given a hot drink which she spilt, however it did not burn her seriously enough to warrant any medical treatment other than the excellent first aid offered by the cabin crew, as the hot drinks on planes are not served as hot as those served on the ground are.

Throughout all of this my husband was asleep and I'm not sure if I was reading a book or in the toilet and none of the other adults sitting in my row or the one in front of the children noticed my daughter being served this drink.

I feel your company and employees have acted irresponsibly as it was their duty to ensure my child was adequately supervised at all times...............

Passmethecrisps Mon 08-Apr-13 12:40:08

Oh I know grow. I agree with your scenario. I just think that the earlier suggestion that OP was so engrossed in her book that she might not be able to find the life vest in time was slightly OTT.

Wibblypiglikesbananas Mon 08-Apr-13 12:42:32

passmethecrisps - not ridiculous at all. There have been many studies into the quickest and most effective way to evacuate an aircraft in the event of an emergency. The more quickly you can prepare yourself, quite simply, the better your chances of survival. If your child, who you're supposed to help in the event of such an emergency, isn't close to you, you're going to waste vital time (unless you have Mr Tickle arms and can reach across a few rows, around screaming, panicking hordes and under your child's seat and locate your child's life jacket just as easily as if they were sitting next to you). Disclaimer - unlikely!

Passmethecrisps Mon 08-Apr-13 12:46:10

How handy would it be to have Mr Tickle arms? Brill!

Anyway, as I don't then I would have to presume you are right. I do think that 6 is too young to be sitting away from parents.

In that case. I probably think OP is being unreasonable.

I'm rubbish at AIBUs - too much of a fence sitter

Growlithe Mon 08-Apr-13 12:47:42

Not being engrossed in the book no, but not sitting with the child yes, that would hamper her finding the life jacket.

The seating arrangement was against Virgin policy on travelling with children. Virgin should more concerned that the staff didn't pick up on that during the cabin check IMO.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Mon 08-Apr-13 12:55:29

I think that sometimes the more adults there are apparently supervising a child, the more danger they can be in, because everyone assumes someone else is on the case. I believe this is caledd " diffusion of responsibility" - there were psychological studies on this phemomenon in the 1960's or 70s

JamieandtheMagicTorch Mon 08-Apr-13 12:55:47

Phenomenon

JamieandtheMagicTorch Mon 08-Apr-13 12:57:23

I also think it is worth contacting the company to let them know. Making it clear that you know what your responsibilty was and that you regret sitting the children on their won.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Mon 08-Apr-13 12:58:04

Own

Scholes34 Mon 08-Apr-13 13:12:28

Isn't MacDonald's the only place you get scalding hot drinks?

As a parent of a 6 year old I'd be concerned about any drink being passed over to them, because of spillages anyway, hot or cold.

When you're in such a big group, you can take your eye of the ball when it comes to keeping an eye on kids. However, bottom line is, OP, you or your DH are ultimately responsible for them.

The cabin crew were alerted to the problem/accident at the time. I'm sure you've all now learnt from the experience and I wouldn't think it necessary to lodge an official complaint. It's a case of six and two threes over who's to blame.

JenaiMorris Mon 08-Apr-13 14:02:03

I will have to agree to disagree with the entire world wrt the wisdom of allowing children to sit away from their parents, but surely even if the OP had been sat quaffing Champagne in business class whist her child sat completely alone in standard it wouldn't detract from the fact that the cabin crew shouldn't have served such a hot drink to a child confused

maxbradbury Mon 08-Apr-13 16:05:25

For the last time I never said it was a boiling hot drink! !
Again I supervised with the meal, seat belts, the entertainment and other drinks!
It was just this regretful hot drink I missed!
Some people are clearly hysterical.
I do not want to sue or gain any compensation from this. I just wondered is it worth giving feedback regarding hot drinks to children.
I am now leaving the thread.
Thank you for all your comments

Passmethecrisps Mon 08-Apr-13 16:50:27

brew OP?

maxbradbury Mon 08-Apr-13 16:54:43

I'd rather have wine . I'm sure I wouldn't miss that wink

Growlithe Mon 08-Apr-13 16:59:18

OP, just as a quick question, looking at the timings you've given, you weren't on the 7.00 pm flight on Tuesday from Orlando to Manchester were you?

clam Mon 08-Apr-13 17:01:30

Why? Were there some badly-behaved kids on there, unsupervised? wink

Coconutty Mon 08-Apr-13 17:04:17

Clam grin

Wishiwasanheiress Mon 08-Apr-13 17:04:28

The plane would have an accident book just like an office. Just because u didn't see it don't assume it doesn't exist.

You should have been watching, whether or not they were right or not to serve a drink. You didn't. I'm not trying to be cruel, this is just an accident.
That's it. Tend to ur girl but leave this alone now.

Hope she's better now

Growlithe Mon 08-Apr-13 17:05:04

No, clam all very well behaved, especially mine. wink

squeakytoy Mon 08-Apr-13 17:06:15

accidents happen... and surely 6yo's do not need that much supervision when they are in a confined space just in front of the parent and behind the grandparents..

lockets Mon 08-Apr-13 17:08:03

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Dominodonkey Mon 08-Apr-13 17:09:37

jamie the study you are referring to is about strangers and linked to the Kitty Genovese case.

OP - YOU should have been supervising your child. It would not be unreasonable though to suggest drinks should be served cooler and with lids due to safety issues.

stressyBessy22 Mon 08-Apr-13 18:09:32

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

HoneyStepMummy Mon 08-Apr-13 18:13:34

Glad your daughter's ok OP. I used to be a flight attendant. We didn't have lids for hot drinks. The water for hot drinks came from a hot water tap. It never got to the point of boiling, but I certainly wouldn't like a hot drink all over myself.
Our company made us say "be careful, your beverage is hot" when handing someone a hot drink. Passengers found it annoying, I suppose it was to prevent the airline getting sued.
Most of us would refuse to serve coffee or other hots drinks to parent's holding a baby/small child or who was sitting next to a wiggly toddler. It wasn't company policy, it was common sense.
I would not give a small child sitting without adults a hot drink. There's nothing unusual about kids sitting in a row by themselves with their parents close by. However depending on their ages I would recommend a parent sit in the same row....We also had unacompanied minors aka childs flying by themselves who we were responsible for.
Even though your daughter wasn't hurt- and that's the main thing- I would recommend writing to the company to hopefully avoid this happening again.

clam Mon 08-Apr-13 18:39:52

I know the OP has gone now, but I can't help doubting that she would have been in the loo when the trolley came round. Those things block the aisles for ages - surely prompting such thought processes of "shall I wriggle past or go the other way?" or "have I got time to get there and back before they get to me?" or, and here's an idea, "I'd better not go to the loo just now as the kids might order who knows what stuff from the cart THAT I DO NOT WANT THEM TO HAVE!!"

maxbradbury Mon 08-Apr-13 18:51:50

Stressy that was a nasty comment about my daughter and it has been reported. Not every child who spills drinks is incapable or slow for their age.

Clam I know it sounds silly but I just do not remember. I honestly have a memory of a fish.

Sugarice Mon 08-Apr-13 18:56:59

OP , ignore stressy, she was on a thread in the past few weeks or so stating that she lets her very young child pull up a chair in the kitchen and make their own sandwiches, with knives! wink.

lockets Mon 08-Apr-13 19:21:45

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

YellowandGreenandRedandBlue Mon 08-Apr-13 19:36:24

Just wow at the idea no 6 year old should spill a drink, I have spilt one in the last month FFS!

Passmethecrisps Mon 08-Apr-13 20:17:33

Last month yellow? I bow to your steady-handedness.

Spilling liquids on myself, both brew and wine on pretty much a daily basis.

I am obviously underdeveloped

YellowandGreenandRedandBlue Mon 08-Apr-13 20:30:44

[grins]

<passes tea towel to mop next split drink>

YellowandGreenandRedandBlue Mon 08-Apr-13 20:31:10

Or grin even!

Hugglepuff Mon 08-Apr-13 20:35:48

I am just surprised they let child sit in row without adult supervision. We returned on flight from Switzerland and no child was allowed to sit in row without supervising adult if they were below age of 12 . ( or thereabouts !)

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Mon 08-Apr-13 20:37:39

Sign of the times, it seems. I used to fly unaccompanied at this age and I know at lot of other MNer's children do also. Six is old enough to manage a hot drink but your daughter spilt it. How is that the cabin crew's fault? I don't see that it's yours either - or your daughter's - it was an ACCIDENT and the complaints culture is completely out of hand in the UK and the reason for the insufferable adverts and unsolicited calls.

I don't see that you have any grounds for complaint.

Hugglepuff Mon 08-Apr-13 20:38:47

Oh, and talking about spilt drinks, I managed to drop a full glass of water all over the table when I was in the middle of an interview ! smile

lockets Mon 08-Apr-13 20:42:18

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

amothersplaceisinthewrong Mon 08-Apr-13 20:47:06

Why were you to blame OP and not your DH.....

Actually no one was to blame, it was an accident. But probably best if an adult had been in the row (yes, yes, the short straw for someone, but hey ho!)

amiwhatorhow Mon 08-Apr-13 20:47:35

I'm 34 and I spilt a cup of tea yesterday.

difficultpickle Mon 08-Apr-13 20:53:26

I fly a lot. I would love love love to not notice the trolley. Instead every flight I'm on I am always aware of how near the trolley is to me being served or going past me, bashing into my seat, having to wait forever for the trolley to go past so I can go to the loo etc etc.

I'm surprised that you would let a 6 year old sit with other children without supervision. There is a big difference between a 6 yr old and a 10 yr old. Also I think you are making an assumption that your 6 yr old looks like she is 6. If you don't have children it can be quite hard to guess ages. We were at a wedding recently. Ds is 8. I think he looks 8 in the sense he is similar in size and behaviour to his 8 yr old friends. Most people who didn't know him thought he was 12.

Go ahead and complain but be prepared to accept a good degree of contrib neg for your failure to supervise your child.

squeakytoy Mon 08-Apr-13 21:16:39

"I am just surprised they let child sit in row without adult supervision"

It was a walking talking six year old, not a toddler! They can cut up their own food, go to the toilet unaided, and use the inflight entertainment without any help. This child had parents immediately behind and grandparents directly in front, so they were sat as a group.

Growlithe Mon 08-Apr-13 21:42:47

Yes squeaky, but it is what would happen in an emergency situation. I all the seats were occupied by the children, the parent would have to block the aisle when assisting the child with lifejackets and oxygen. This would put other passengers in more danger. If the parent is sitting with the child, assistance can be given whilst still in the seats and out of the away of the passageway.

Is it only me that can see the logic in this?

HoneyStepMummy Mon 08-Apr-13 21:44:08

Of course a six year old can sit in a row with a bunch of other kids with mum and dad safety behind them hmm. Just like a six year old unacompanied minor can sit by themselves next to strangers and order a beverage from a flight attendant.
I have always given kids cooled-down hot drinks, not just on a plane. You don't need to be an excited six year old to spill a drink. Flimsy styrofoam cups, a flimsy plastic tray table, turbulence...very easy for anyone to spill drinks.
This certainly was an accident, but the FA should know from experience not to give a small kid a super hot drink. FA's are on board for passengers safety and need to make good judgement calls. I'm sure the FA who gave her the drink felt really horrible!

clam Mon 08-Apr-13 21:53:22

I don't think it's crime of the century to seat your 6 year old with siblings/cousins/friends (particularly if they're older) rather than adults, BUT I do think it's a bit rich to then complain if something goes wrong. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to maybe write and point out what had happened, but I would word it carefully to make clear that I held myself ultimately responsible.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Mon 08-Apr-13 21:57:13

i just think that people's jobs are SO precarious these days that i would genuinely think twice before complaining about an individual. the hostess, having made the mistake once, will not make it again in all likelihood.

VivaLeBeaver Mon 08-Apr-13 22:01:10

Believe me in really bad turbulence you can't get out your seat to help anyone. I've been in a plane which dropped thousands of feet in seconds. I was strapped in but my bum was off the seat due to the g force. It was a full on staring death in the face, people screaming a vomiting few minutes.

In such a situation the kids would be on their own as you wouldn't be able to get them if they're on a separate row.

Growlithe Mon 08-Apr-13 22:02:59

clam but the oldest was 12, and sitting with an entertainment system in front of him/her. You couldn't expect them to take responsibility for a 6 year old for a whole long haul flight. That wouldn't be fair.

MaybeOrnot Mon 08-Apr-13 22:03:15

I wouldn't dream of complaining,and would zip my negligent,parental lips.

clam Mon 08-Apr-13 22:10:12

Who said anything about expecting the 12 year old to take responsibility for the whole flight? Mind you, that said, I would have expected mine by that age, to turn round in their seat and say to me, "Mum, babyclam is ordering hot chocolate. Is that OK?"

squeakytoy Mon 08-Apr-13 22:10:16

"You couldn't expect them to take responsibility for a 6 year old for a whole long haul flight"

six year olds do not need that much supervision! I travel long haul regularly and see many kids that age, on night flights they are normally asleep anyway. Or they are glued to the films.

And the planes have two aisles so perfectly possible for someone to get to the loo while the trolley is doing its rounds too.

ivykaty44 Mon 08-Apr-13 22:17:09

can I ask

how the hot drink was spilt?

Growlithe Mon 08-Apr-13 22:19:56

That six year old obviously did need supervising though. And they always need help with their things, with the TV selections etc.

And yes the planes have two aisles but in practise you use the one closest to you actual seat. I presumed this would be the nearest aisle to the child because I thought she would be sitting at least close to her.

Oh I'm only going on about this because I'm bored by Margaret Thatcher now. grin

clam Mon 08-Apr-13 22:22:32

"And the planes have two aisles so perfectly possible for someone to get to the loo while the trolley is doing its rounds too."

There's usually a trolley in each aisle simultaneously. But whatever, my point was that, once they're doing the rounds, it requires a plan of sorts to get to the loo. So I was therefore querying whether the OP would really have forgotten where she was during the drinks round.

<<wonders why I'm getting involved in this>>

stressyBessy22 Tue 09-Apr-13 00:18:21

OP you are casting around for someone to blame for your own negligence!

Bartlebee Tue 09-Apr-13 00:41:07

Vivalebeaver's post has made me nervous! I don't like turbulence.

LadyBeagleEyes Tue 09-Apr-13 00:59:41

clam, I just snorted with laughter at your post.
I'm loving how we're all working out distance of trolleys, ratios of seats, hot drinks with or without lids and parental responsibility versus Health and Safety.
This thread is so MN and an utter joy.

stressyBessy22 Tue 09-Apr-13 08:34:40

Stressy that was a nasty comment about my daughter and it has been reported. Not every child who spills drinks is incapable or slow for their age.

I am sorry if you feel I have been nasty about your daughter.The point I was trying to make is that the six year olds I know can handle a drink as well as an adult would.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Tue 09-Apr-13 08:42:55

Domino

Ah yes, you are right. May well not apply here then.

flaminhoopsaloolah Tue 09-Apr-13 08:53:46

I confess that Ive not read all of the thread.

1) YANBU
2) There are airlines who fly unacompanied minors as yiung as six - I wouod hop cabin crew would be trained in something as simple as hit drinks and young children
3) All kids develop abilities at different times - plenty of six year olds I know spill drinks regularly
4) Hope your daughter is feeling better.

MTSgroupie Tue 09-Apr-13 09:26:25

If my child was in a serious accident, where I was at the time and what I was doing would be permanently etched in my mind.

So I'm a bit hmm at the OP's claim to have a memory like a goldfish about the events leading up to the accident.

Floggingmolly Tue 09-Apr-13 10:58:42

Indeed, groupie. One of the copious adults forming a ring around the children's seats say well have been asked for their "consent" to the child having the drink, but she can't remember that either.

clam Tue 09-Apr-13 11:08:30

Oh God, I'm back with another thought!
If the drink was still hot enough to hurt when spilled, then the trolley visit must have been fairly recent, and therefore still nearby when all the first aid kerfuffle was going on. That makes it even more hmm that the OP has no idea where she was or what she was doing.

<<goes back to proper work>>

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