to ask for good luck vibes as in court tomorrow evicting non-paying tenant

(54 Posts)
fatnfrumpy Tue 02-Apr-13 01:09:13

I am so stressed- have been since Oct when our tenant decided if he didn,t pay any rent the council will rehome him!
I have no idea what will happen in court tomorrow. Our solicitor says tenant will be a no show and if evicted will sit there till baliffs appointed by the court go round in another TWO weeks.
All the while he is there not paying to use our brand new washer/dryer, dishwasher, fridge/freezer, oven etc.
Nor paying any bills or council tax.
We have worked hard/paid tax all our working lives for some 25+ years.
Got some inheritance sadly as my DM died and as the banks are paying peanuts we decided to invest it in a flat on a buy to let mortage for our pension/childrens inheritance etc.
Bought smart flat, bought new carpets, kitchen, bathroom. Top notch with all built in appliences etc
Hoped to attract a professional couple as two bedroom near station to commute to London , all good!
Agent finds us a tenant- newly seperated man in 40's who needs two bedrooms/garden so he can have son at the weekend. Earns 40k as chef in town. no references as he lived with wife before.
Trusted agent to check his salary etc.
They move him in whilst we are on holiday, before we even had a chance to meet him.
He says he has problems with direct debit with OUR bank so his first 3 months rent are LATE. Don't worry he says! we accept his offer of bank transfer in future.
Next 3 months rent are LATE but he now offers to pay us cash.
Neighbours complain he is threatening them with violence, stealing their parcels ( signed for a laptop and sportsbag in their name but said he hadn't . Police called nothing done!)
and drug dealing from our beautiful flat!
Police have staked out our flat from neighbours flat for days on end, but not arrested him, even though he has up to 30 visitors a day there for less than ten minutes!
Asked neighbours if they have seen underage girls going in our flat!
Turns out when I checked, he doesn't work, hasnt paid any bills,gas meter has been changed to a prepaid card meter, council tax are after him etc etc
In court tomorrow to evict him as he has not paid any rent since last October although we have a mortage to pay!!!
Turns out he has been getting £560 per month HOUSING BENEFIT from last APRIL He has told the court he NEEDS to be evicted by bailiffs 30days after the court date otherwise HE has made HIMSELF homeless and won't get a council house!!!!!!
He is not from the UK nor from the EU so how can that be?
I am dreading tomorrow especially not knowing what state our flat is in as we have not been allowed in their since October as we were HASSLING him!
Please send me good vibes!
Thanks

YANBU he is a horrible guy and I hope he gets his comeuppance.

IneedAsockamnesty Tue 02-Apr-13 01:17:06

Hope he does not turn up,if he does he will just ask for the notice to seek possession to be suspended.

But on the upside no matter what he will be found intentionally homeless by the LA as he's made himself homeless by not paying so they can discharge any duty to house.

AdoraBell Tue 02-Apr-13 01:49:23

Good vibes heading your way. Yep, he'll get what he wants re being homeless, but he won't be your problem then. FX for you.

Iactuallydothinkso Tue 02-Apr-13 06:30:45

Is it an assured short hold tenancy?

If so, I shouldn't worry, court will get him out as there is no defence after being asked to leave. He can't get a council house until you actually evict him. At the moment it's just possession right? Not the same as eviction. You'll get two dates, one for possession (he's meant to leave) and one for eviction (he's forced to leave) hopefully both within the month. He looks like he'll sit it out until he actually gets the notice of eviction (which is what councils need to rehome) but there's no guarantee they'll actually rehome him. But that's not your problem. On the date of eviction he probably won't be there anyway, he'll have gone as soon as he gets the eviction notice if that's his intention.

There are ways of delaying unless its a short hold tenancy.

And utter shame on your letting agency for not going through the peer checks. How was he claiming housing benefit on a 40k salary? They should have been better at their job. I'd be asking them for my costs to be honest.

Iactuallydothinkso Tue 02-Apr-13 06:31:53

**peer??? Proper!

Tenacity Tue 02-Apr-13 06:50:05

Wish you all the best in Court today.
It sounds like you've been let done by your letting agent big time. Is there any legal recourse to this?
I am also shocked about the advise the Council supposedly gives to private tenants regarding staying until evicted. What on earth! How is that legal?

Beatrixpotty Tue 02-Apr-13 07:00:11

Been in your situation too.They will order eviction,but then you have to wait ,and still pay the bailiff.Sometimes it feels like even though have done nothing wrong then the law doesn't protect you and you are left out of pocket as the landlord.Does he know that if housing benefit people know he hasn't paid the rent they will stop it?When my tenant was told that they did start paying but I was left being owed money anyway which would have cost even more time & money to retrieve.Good luck

Iactuallydothinkso Tue 02-Apr-13 07:41:46

I'd say it was unlikely the council gives this advice to people (to stay put until they get the eviction notice) it's just the only way of jumping that ladder is to have a notice of eviction. Sometimes people know what they're doing and sit it out. I'm just warning the op of the process and why the tenant might choose to do it.

Theicingontop Tue 02-Apr-13 07:50:52

Surely if he's not paid his rent he's made himself intentionally homeless? Therefore ineligible for council assistance.

What a scumbag. Good luck OP.

JakeBullet Tue 02-Apr-13 07:53:22

OP, you are SO not BU!

I hope to God that when the council investigate WHY he is homeless (and believe me they WILL) that this will find him intentionally homeless.....certainly with my local council eviction for non payment of rent is an "intentionally homeless" offence and he'd get nothing except hostel accommodation and the offer of help to find a private rental...which wont want him because he has a poor history of paying.

I hope to God he is not trashing your flat in petulance.....just a warning as that happened to me in the days when I was a LL with a non paying tenant.

This is crap, I am so sorry you are having to go through it. Do you have any kind of cover to help with this situation? I kw some Letting Agents offer insurance etc.

He won't get a council house regardless. In order to be in housing need you have to be evicted through no fault of your own, ie landlord wants to sell. Getting evicted for not paying rent means he will be turned away. Best case scenario for him is he becomes street homeless and gets a place in a homeless hostel (the glamour)
Idiot could have actually paid the rent to you and continued having a nice house to live in.

Oh the council do give that advice, but only if there is no likelihood of being found IH. I got a section 21 notice while on mat leave and went to the council for advice, hoping to get into the deposit guarantee scheme. They advised we would get no help if we left on the date our notice expired.

CerealMom Tue 02-Apr-13 09:14:38

Where do you stand with the letting agent? It sounds like they didn't do their due diligence properly/at all. Can you make any claim on them/their insurance?

I would sue the letting agent too, hope it goes well.

NotTreadingGrapes Tue 02-Apr-13 09:21:56

YANBU. Hope it goes well!

MammaTJ Tue 02-Apr-13 09:23:02

He has one hell of a shock coming to him. The council will say that he has made himself homeless by not paying the rent and therefore they have no obligation to rehouse him!

Good luck!

Can you sue the letting agent?

Good luck. Hellish situation.

janey68 Tue 02-Apr-13 09:33:33

Best of luck. I would also investigate what action you can take against the letting agent, even if it's just going to the local press
With your story . It's outrageous that they didn't check work references. That's exactly what you're paying them for. Did you pay them an ongoing management fee or just an initial tenant finding fee? Either way, you have paid hundreds of £ and they've failed you.
It sounds like a high spec property in a convenient location too so the irony is the agent probably had quite a few potential tenants lined up, and let this idiot sign for it without doing proper checks or you meeting him.

Hope he gets his just desserts.

Ilovesunflowers Tue 02-Apr-13 09:41:41

Make sure you change ALL the locks when he's evicted. What an absolute tw@t.

Ilovesunflowers Tue 02-Apr-13 09:43:11

and if he's trashed the place go to the police.

HoHoHoNoYouDont Tue 02-Apr-13 10:15:40

OP, I really feel for you and wish you all the best. This nightmare is drawing to a close for you, just keep thinking it will soon be over. I have experienced similar circumstances from tenants over the years and it's heartbreaking to find your property is damaged or left in a disgusting state. But, don't let it grind you down, the worst is almost over and you'll get your property back soon and that utter scumbag will be out of your life for ever.

WilsonFrickett Tue 02-Apr-13 10:19:41

Good luck and I agree with pp that your Letting Agent is partially liable for this. If you don't fancy taking them to court, I'd be having stern words about what they can do to fix this situation - for eg, they will have tradespeople and cleaners on their books and I'd be looking for a deep clean and any % of work needing to be done to put the place right free of charge.

Op, I feel for you, but, the councils advice is to stay put and wait for eviction BUT he is still meant to pay the rent, they won't help him if he's withholding rent, there's a lot of misinformation out there. Stupid man. Hope it's over soon for you.

Twattybollocks Tue 02-Apr-13 15:36:38

Good luck With the eviction, he sounds like a prize twat. If its any consolation the council won't house him if he's evicted for non payment of rent so that should piss on his bonfire nicely when he finds out. Karma and all that.....

fatnfrumpy Tue 02-Apr-13 18:58:51

Tenant phoned the court this morning to ask what time he had to be there- 3.30pm.
The judge waited till 4.15pm for him but he was a no- show.
Court papers show he receives £871 per month in JSA and HB yet he is Algerian.
He owes us to date £4,789.00 so now has a CCJ however our solicitor says he will not pay it voluntarily so to enforce it we would have to get him made bankrupt.
He has until 16th April to move out. Then we have to go back to court to get court appointed baliffs.
I asked the solicitor if I could go round and see him after court. She said I still had to give him notice to inspect the flat but if I asked to be let in and he agreed that would be fine.
My husband refused to come with me, thinks we should just leave him alone in case he got violent etc.
ig row and I went on my own.
Rang the security entrance three times, no answer. So left my hand on it and he answered.
I asked if I could come in and he buzzed me in. I had my keys but didn't use them.
He stood in the doorway and I asked him if I could come in and he said no. He said this is my flat and I have rights.
I walked down the stairs telling him I was giving him 24 hrs notice and I would be back with my keys tomorrow. He then let me in.
The stench of skunk was repellant! The flat is absolutly disgusting. Couldn't even see the kitchen work surfaces.
The heating was on full blast and all the curtains shut with all the lights on. Yet he is not paying his bills.
He looked unkempt and dirty.
He said he did,nt come to court because he was embarrased, we are decent people and he has hit a bad time, he is owed £70,000 from the restaurant he works at as a Michelin starred chef!!!!!!!!
He will pay us back if we let him stay, he has no where to go and is ill.
I was shaking when I left and had to go and buy 10 cigs ( I gave up a year ago!)
So it remains to be seen if he will pay us the money. He seems to think if he pays it he can stay?
We won't hold our breath I guess we will be back in court end of April.

MadamFolly Tue 02-Apr-13 19:06:37

You won't get any money out of him unless you pursue through the courts, even then you may not get anything. Definitely sue the lettings agent. Did he pay a deposit?

fatnfrumpy Tue 02-Apr-13 19:25:14

Tenant phoned the court this morning to ask what time he had to be there- 3.30pm.
The judge waited till 4.15pm for him but he was a no- show.
Court papers show he receives £871 per month in JSA and HB yet he is Algerian.
He owes us to date £4,789.00 so now has a CCJ however our solicitor says he will not pay it voluntarily so to enforce it we would have to get him made bankrupt.
He has until 16th April to move out. Then we have to go back to court to get court appointed baliffs.
I asked the solicitor if I could go round and see him after court. She said I still had to give him notice to inspect the flat but if I asked to be let in and he agreed that would be fine.
My husband refused to come with me, thinks we should just leave him alone in case he got violent etc.
ig row and I went on my own.
Rang the security entrance three times, no answer. So left my hand on it and he answered.
I asked if I could come in and he buzzed me in. I had my keys but didn't use them.
He stood in the doorway and I asked him if I could come in and he said no. He said this is my flat and I have rights.
I walked down the stairs telling him I was giving him 24 hrs notice and I would be back with my keys tomorrow. He then let me in.
The stench of skunk was repellant! The flat is absolutly disgusting. Couldn't even see the kitchen work surfaces.
The heating was on full blast and all the curtains shut with all the lights on. Yet he is not paying his bills.
He looked unkempt and dirty.
He said he did,nt come to court because he was embarrased, we are decent people and he has hit a bad time, he is owed £70,000 from the restaurant he works at as a Michelin starred chef!!!!!!!!
He will pay us back if we let him stay, he has no where to go and is ill.
I was shaking when I left and had to go and buy 10 cigs ( I gave up a year ago!)
So it remains to be seen if he will pay us the money. He seems to think if he pays it he can stay?
We won't hold our breath I guess we will be back in court end of April.

fatnfrumpy Tue 02-Apr-13 19:25:54

How strange why has this posted twice?

zoobaby Tue 02-Apr-13 19:36:06

Good grief! Awful! Never mind his empty promises. You have to get him out by the correct channels.

WeAreEternal Tue 02-Apr-13 19:39:53

What a low life scumbag.

I really feel for you op.

I am also a landlord and have had my own fair share of crappy tenants.

IIWY I would definitely pursue a case against the letting agents as they obviously did not to the proper checks.

We once had a single mother with a toddler rent a flat from us.
She seemed lovely, she worked full time in a newsagents and was studying part time to become a dental nurse.
She lived in our flat for two years no trouble. We did routine inspections every six months and although the place was a little untidy and always l

kinkyfuckery Tue 02-Apr-13 19:47:30

What scum!

Am so sorry this has been such a bad experience for you. I really hope you manage to get money out of him (and the letting agent!) and are able to do the flat up again and find a proper tenant.

WeAreEternal Tue 02-Apr-13 19:54:29

Sorry accidentally posted too soon.

.. And it always looked like it needed a good hover and a dust she seemed to be taking care of the place.
Then we stared to have trouble. She stopped paying the rent on time, it was always late or short and was never contactable (it turned out that her phone had been cut off)
Then when we asked to come check on the flat for the routine inspection she ignored requests to contact her to arrange a time, so we gave her notice and went round. But we couldn't get in as she had the keys in the door. This happened 14 times over several weeks.
By this point she was starting to owe us a good amount of money and as her tenancy was almost up for renewal we decided to serve her notice. Still with no response, apart from the fact that she stopped paying rent at all.
She stayed in the flat for two months before just leaving one day, just as we were getting ready to take her to court.

The place was a mess, she abandoned quite a bit of broken furniture and random junk as well as lot and lots if rubbish, lose all over the floor. The work surfaces in the kitchen were disgusting and there were old baby bottle on the floor with mouldy milk in them as well as a huge amount of very old stinking nappies. She had also broken the fridge.

We decided to take her to court for the money she owed plus cleaning costs as her deposit didn't even cover a fraction of it.

We later found out that she had quit her job a week after moving in and started claiming benefits, which voided out mortgage and insurance.
She owed over £4000 in unpaid gas and electric for the entire time that she had lived in the flat and she had also run up nearly £3000 of other debts at the address.

We won our case against her but she was only ordered to pay £5 per month to us.
It will take her 16 years to pay us back.

I hope everything works out better for you.

Wibblypiglikesbananas Tue 02-Apr-13 20:03:02

Hi OP,

You still haven't answered the question re your letting agent. Why are you not suing them? They clearly didn't carry out adequate checks on your tenant.

Also, you said they moved someone in without your knowledge. As a fellow landlord, I would always insist on seeing references myself from the agent I agree to someone moving in - a bit of background about them, children, pets, salary etc.

I'm not unsympathetic, your tenant sounds like a total low life and you're going to end up out of pocket. However, it doesn't look like either you or your agent checked this guy out properly in the first place. I imagine your landlord's insurance is also now invalid as your tenant wasn't employed when he moved in, which is one of the standard conditions.

I really hope you get this sorted but you need to start getting angry and pursuing your agent, who has clearly not acted in your best interests.

WeAreEternal Tue 02-Apr-13 20:09:36

I didn't even think about that wibbly.

Yes every agent that I have ever spoken to or dealt with has always passed on any perspective tenant information, after they have passed their checks, for my approval. I have never known an agent to move in a tenant without the landlords say so. That does sound very odd.

Shenanagins Tue 02-Apr-13 20:15:03

You have my sympathy, it is every decent landlords worst nightmare.

fatnfrumpy Tue 02-Apr-13 20:59:04

Wibbly,
We paid the agent a flat £500 tenant finders fee.
The references were never forwarded to us until we applied to court.
They told us he was a refugee from Algeria who had recently split from his wife and child. He had lived in the town for ten years. He didn't have references from previous address as his wife paid the rent in her name.
He worked as a chef in an Indian restaurant in town on 40k a year. His employer would act as a guarantor for him.
After six months we renewed his contract for another six months so in effect lost his guarator.
For the first 6 months (April-Oct) he always paid late blaming our bank, then asked if he could pay cash. We renewed because up to that point he was no trouble.
Although he paid late and we had a few bounced cheques he did always pay with apologies.
The minute we signed the next contract (Oct) without the agents he never paid us another penny.
In Dec I asked the agentss for the references which they emailed. It was hand written!!!!
I called the curry house and they told me he had never worked there but was a "friend" of the owner. Yes you guessed it the guarantor.
The agent called us when we were on holiday saying he was a good bet, he earned 40k could afford rent of £850 pcm. He had the deposit in cash and needed somewhere by the end of the week due to his seperation.
We trusted the agent, we were niaeve yes, he is our first tenant ever.
The agent said tough you renewed his contract and not through us!!!
Think he knew to behave so that we renewed and then played the game!
It is a victorian house split into four large two bedroom flats. We also own the garden outright. The other residents say things only got bad -, druggies coming all day and night since we renewed the contract. Thats when he started stealing their parcels too.
Everone has chipped in to install CCTV on the front drive and hallway.
He has up to 30 "visitors" a day all through the day and night.
We didn't discuss any of this with the judge as he just looked at the ££££'s he owed and the benefits of £871 pcm he gets and said evicted on 16th April But he did say I will see you back in court in May for the baliff order!
I can't quite believe I was brave or sill enough to have it out with him without a phone or anyone else in the house!

fatnfrumpy Tue 02-Apr-13 21:01:05

Weareternal,
You wouldn't believe that of a mother would you!

caramelwaffle Tue 02-Apr-13 21:16:28

You have my every sympathy; all the best for April and May thanks

Tugstonia Tue 02-Apr-13 21:24:33

Very best of luck to you OP, I really feel for you. I had a tenant who did exactly the same thing to me a couple of years ago and the whole process was hideously stressful. He sounds like a total scumbag and I hope he gets his comeuppance. Let us know how you get on.

EuroShaggleton Tue 02-Apr-13 21:30:22

I'm sorry to hear that, OP.

We've just had similar - tenant stopped paying rent months ago and then claimed he was going to sue us because the flat was making him ill! It is a nice newbuild that my husband lived in until we moved in together a few years ago, and it was redecorated completely two years ago. He did things like not reporting a leak for ages, which caused mould (which he then said was making him ill). confused He just hadn't looked after the place at all. We ended up paying him to leave rather than waste time and money going through the eviction process. We're not happy about it (lost several thousand in unpaid rent plus the pay off) but at least we have the flat back now so it can be sold and we can hopefully recoup some of it. Some tenants are utter shits. I hate the bastard. I had IVF and then a miscarriage while he was threatening to sue us, adding enormously to our stress levels. Hopefully life will bring him exactly what he deserves...

SW1XMother Tue 02-Apr-13 21:31:31

Haven't read everything but I would really worry about the state of your flat. Can you sue the estate agents
for not checking references etc. Isn't that what they get paid for?

specialsubject Tue 02-Apr-13 21:52:05

shudder.

Anyone can set up as a letting agent - there is no regulation enforced as far as I know. There are trade associations and insurances against some of these issues.

But if you get a determined crook, they can make life utter hell.

IneedAsockamnesty Tue 02-Apr-13 21:52:34

Be careful about relying on bankruptcy its quite likely you will only end up with something like 1p to every £1 he owes you its often not worth doing it.

Unless of course your the person who owes the money.

fatnfrumpy Tue 02-Apr-13 21:55:07

Euro,
I am so sorry that you had all the stress whilst going through another highly stressful situation.
Makes me humble about how "little" stress i have compared to what you went through.
I wish all the best for you and your DH! x

CautionaryWhale Tue 02-Apr-13 21:56:35

She has seen the flat - it is filthy and stinks.
The agents are claiming no recourse or responsibility as she renewed his contract without them.

It is a shitty situation and I feel for you OP

brew flowers

fuckwittery Tue 02-Apr-13 22:17:26

God how awful for you OP! Did you have insurance to cover the solicitors' bills. Why did your letting agent not get 6 month wage slips and P60 though? I am just about to rent out a flat having just spend £££ putting a luxury bathroom in - to improve later sale value, and can't imagine how gutted I would be if a tenant wrecked it - I am going to insist on proper financial checks. Handwritten reference is NOT due diligence, I would check your contract for the finders fee and find out exactly what the agent promised to check. Did they do a credit check? I'm amazed he's never been in financial difficulty before if this is how he behaves.

Wibblypiglikesbananas Tue 02-Apr-13 23:12:04

Oh my. What a mess.

So - to get this straight, you didn't use an agent in the regular way, ie to collect rent and/or do any necessary maintenance? You paid £500 for someone to find you a tenant on a flat that brings in £850pcm before tax. And then you went it alone after six months?

Do you have insurance of any kind? Did you organise for an independent inventory to be taken before your tenant moved in?

Your situation sounds like every landlord's worst nightmare. You feel like you've been more than fair to your tenant but he's thrown it right back in your face.

However, there were warning bells a long while ago, what with late rent and 'problems' with your bank. You sound lovely but naive about renting out your property. As soon as the first rent payment was late, you should have cut your losses and got out of the tenancy agreement as your tenant had breached it by not paying rent on time. Your tenant has behaved despicably but you have really not helped yourself. Not even asking for a copy of the tenant's references before he moved in was a huge mistake, which you're now paying for.

I wish you luck sorting this out but you need to wise up if you're going to continue being a landlord. Sadly, always expect the worse of people and make sure you get your paperwork in order, don't give second chances and feel sorry for people - this is a business transaction and nothing more. You didn't deserve to be treated like this, absolutely not, but there was a lot you could have done to help yourself beforehand. I think both the agent and tenant saw you coming to be honest.

Check out the Landlords' Association for more advice and guidance and maybe post in legal re your current situation.

fuckwittery Tue 02-Apr-13 23:16:56

Wibbly, agents service £500 finders fee, then you manage yourself is pretty standad- we've done this twice now. The letting agents definitely sound like they have dropped the ball with not getting proper references for the OP, she paid that £500 for professional checks to be carried out and decent tenants to be found! We did get landlord insurance with a property we rented out though OP, to cover no rent being paid and the price of the insurance included a credit check. I'm sure you will look into that one in the future! Another lesson learnt for others on this thread - if you have a tenant with a guarantor and you manage yourself and renew contract, guarantor must sign every renewal contract. I am very hmm as to why the tenant needed a guarantor if he earned £40k - did you question this one? or were you told no proper pay slips etc at the time?

Wibblypiglikesbananas Wed 03-Apr-13 00:25:17

Hi FW, not disputing whether it's standard or not, just that it's not the easiest route to take if you're new to being a landlord.

Also, what exactly did that £500 bring, given that the agents didn't actually take or share genuine references with the OP? Absolutely agree about the guarantor signature btw.

fatnfrumpy Wed 03-Apr-13 01:03:54

Thank you so much Wibblypiglikesbananas for your kind words!

Wibblypiglikesbananas Wed 03-Apr-13 01:48:27

I hope you get this sorted out. What a horrible man, eh? Best of luck!

holidaysarenice Wed 03-Apr-13 04:04:53

Check your guarantee agreement, you may find that it covers subsequent contracts too, tho with you taking over that may be invalid.

Timetoask Wed 03-Apr-13 05:36:51

Show awful for you!
I hope you report him to the police for the drug dealing!

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