To be really fed up that I cannot be a bf support worker

(162 Posts)
ariane5 Sun 31-Mar-13 21:52:15

I have had a tough time lately and have been thinking over last few days of something I could or aim to do to change my life and give me a bit of purpose.

Somebody I know is a bf support worker at the local hosp/bf group in childrens centre.I thought it sounded like a lovely job an started to think I might be ablr to do something like that as bf dd1 till she was 4, ds1 till he was 2.5, dd2 tillshe was 2 and currently bf ds2 11m so have loads of experience.

I thought maybe I could arrange to volunteer and get dh to perhaps change his hours (work flexible) to help me with dcs as they have health issues and enable me to get out and do something worthwhile that might cheer me up/get me out/help people etc etc.

Started to have a look at what is required etc and if there are any courses you need to do.

Then I saw you need a clean criminal record. I do not have one as in 2008 my horrible sister argued with me and said vicious things, when I slapped her (I know I shouldn't have) she phoned 999 and had me arrested so I have a caution for common assaultsad

It will stop me volunteering to be a bf support worker won't it. I'm so fed up I just wanted to get out of the house and do something worthwhile for a couple of hours a week.
I'm so fed up. AIBU or is it my own fault anyway sad

TarkaTheOtter Sun 31-Mar-13 21:55:50

It is probably a requirement of the children's centre/hospital. I know ours require volunteers to be crb checked as working with babies/children.
There may be community groups located in village halls etc which don't require a criminal record.

TarkaTheOtter Sun 31-Mar-13 21:56:26

Ps YANBU to be disappointed but I can understand why they are cautious.

crashdoll Sun 31-Mar-13 21:57:14

Can they specify clean CRB as there is the Rehabilitation of Offenders act?

ariane5 Sun 31-Mar-13 21:59:39

I just feel so sad. I have so much experience and also ds2 was in NICU so I had to express for him /help feed him through tube etc.

I really feel I could offer so much support to people but because of my stupid mistake I won't be allowed.I actually felt excited about the prospect of doing something different and worthwhile.

TheSecondComing Sun 31-Mar-13 22:00:29

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ballstoit Sun 31-Mar-13 22:01:35

Having something appear on CRB doesn't necessarily prevent you from volunteering. There will be an application process, and I'd suggest you look into it and have a chat with the volunteer manager/supervisor who will have more information on whether your caution would prevent you from volunteering.

I was a volunteer with local Sure Start for a long time, and know of at least 2 others who had convictions, and were still able to volunteer.

ariane5 Sun 31-Mar-13 22:02:24

What I read just said you have to have a "clean criminal record" I presume it would be an enhanced crb as most of the volunteering is at the local hospital.

A caution for common assault sounds dreadful doesn't it. I had never been in any trouble at all before that or since. I'm so ashamed.

AnythingNotEverything Sun 31-Mar-13 22:05:06

Check the details of the type of crb/DBS check they actually take. Not all convictions/cautions show up on all checks, particularly the new DBS scheme which discounts all but certain offences after a certain amount of time has passed.

Also, there may be an element of discretion with the person who sifts the applications.

And finally, a caution may not even show up!

Get some more info before you give up on this. Sounds like you could be a real asset to them.

wrongsideoftheroad Sun 31-Mar-13 22:05:38

well, that is sad. but, you know, you reap what you sow. i am with tsc on this really.

CleoBrown Sun 31-Mar-13 22:07:19

Don't be too dis-heartened, on some occasions it has been known for positive crb checks not to stop employment, it really depends on the circumstances.

I would advise being up front and talking to the employer, they may need to check with the issuing police/court records to confirm your story, but I have seen a number of people who have had convictions get employment (and those who haven't, so please don't think it's a given).

If you explain your situation (and they confirm it/you get an interview) they may ask you to volunteer before applying for anything.

Volunteers at the hospitals are invaluable and a conviction does not necessarily stop them from being appointed, you could try that route in?

badguider Sun 31-Mar-13 22:07:54

I would investigate further if I were you. It might be that you just need to have no criminal convictions (which you don't have). Speak to them, or email and tell them your experiences with bf but that you have a five year old police caution on your record and ask would this stop you from volunteering.
DON'T give up without even asking the question.

minouminou Sun 31-Mar-13 22:08:07

Hi there - it might be an idea to talk to someone at the station you got your caution at.

It might be possible to have an officer draft a report or letter explaining the circumstances of your offence. They may also be able to give you advice on collecting character witnesses. Please don't give up on this ambition - there may be a way around it.

Failedhippy Sun 31-Mar-13 22:10:44

I agree with wringsideoftheroad.....don't do the crime if you can't do the time and all that.

ariane5 Sun 31-Mar-13 22:10:51

I am just so sad. It was a silly thing to do I shouldn't have slapped her (she had mocked dd1 who is disabled) and I know I should have walked away.

For that 1 slap I got arrested, cautioned and when I got home (lived with dm and dsis) the locks had been changed and at 1030pm dd1 and ds1 just 7 and 1 at the time were pushed out the door to me.

I am not a violent criminal but the caution makes me look like one on paper sad

I just wanted to help people and make something of myself

OhDearieDearieMe Sun 31-Mar-13 22:11:08

OP - I've read your recent threads and I'm already astonished at how much you have on your plate. Do you really think it's wise (although I do get that you want to do a good thing) to take on something else at this stage?

TheSecondComing Sun 31-Mar-13 22:13:58

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

fluffypillow Sun 31-Mar-13 22:14:21

With your experience you could help alot of people, I hope this doesn't stop you from volunteering. Hope it works out for you.

wrongsideoftheroad Sun 31-Mar-13 22:14:26

eek.well i genuinely am sorry for your situation but my moral code does include not slapping people in the mush when they wind me up.

i had a peer supporter when i was b/feeding...patience is a virtue, right?

ENormaSnob Sun 31-Mar-13 22:14:57

Ariane, do you really think this is best course of action for you right now?

NatashaBee Sun 31-Mar-13 22:15:01

I would talk to them about it. A criminal offence doesn't necessarily mean you can't be a volunteer - but you'd need to explain the circumstances to them.

wrongsideoftheroad Sun 31-Mar-13 22:15:14

DOESNT INCLUDE that should say

wrongsideoftheroad Sun 31-Mar-13 22:16:05

oh, ignore my last post...

ariane5 Sun 31-Mar-13 22:16:29

I know I have a lot on but I feel like if I could get out of the house and do something different and worthwgile it might make me feel a lot better.

My life is just looking after dcs/hosp appts I really really need an interest away from that. I just thought it sounded so ideal as have a lot of bf experience I was only thinking of volunteering a couple of hours a week.

ParadiseChick Sun 31-Mar-13 22:20:18

Don't despair.

I recruit for posts that require enhanced criminal record checks, so everything comes back.

Throughout our application process you are given opportunity to declare previous convictions. These forms are kept separate from the screening process so only once an application ha been selected to go further do we open these declarations. If there is something on it another process kicks in.

The form asks for details of the conviction, Dependingevents leading up to a d after it, and your reflections. Depending on the role and the conviction nit doesn't automatically mean an application is disregarded. There's liaison with senior management etc and if we go ahead to interview someone with disclosed convictions they are offered a lo get interview slot. The interview is ran as normal then at the end we raise the conviction, give the applicant a chance to discuss it, ask more questions then make our decision from there.

The same procedure is followed for volunteers.

Phone them and ask.

minouminou Sun 31-Mar-13 22:20:51

How about volunteering on a phone helpline instead?
I know you want to get out of the house, but this could be a start.

ariane5 Sun 31-Mar-13 22:20:57

I just feel that having something different to focus on, say, once a week/fortnight could actually be a good thing.

Just to get ready, knowing dcs are ok with dh, get on a bus by myself with just my thoughts not worries about dcs ti go and help people and do something I'm genuinely interested in and passionate about could be exactly what I need right now.

ParadiseChick Sun 31-Mar-13 22:22:44

I meant them add however if someone fails to disclose and their check comes back its an instant withdrawal of offer.

The best thing to do is state when it asks for any criminal convictions 'caution for assault - slapped a sibling following a family argument.'

I wish you well but please don't think this is the only 'worthwhile' thing you can do either x

ariane5 Sun 31-Mar-13 22:27:18

I do not have any other 'qualifications' or as much knowledge really about anything else.

I know I could offer so much support/advice to new mums and its a shame I may not get a chance because of a one off mistake sad

fuzzypicklehead Sun 31-Mar-13 22:27:33


It isn't a hopeless situation. You could start by phoning up the local children's centre to ask about volunteering to be a peer supporter and what it would entail. If you're up front about the caution, it may not be a problem. A lot of bf peer support work is done by phone anyway, so that wouldn't necessarily be an issue.

But they do often require a course of some description, though. Would you be up for that?

ariane5 Sun 31-Mar-13 22:30:37

I would have to check what the course involved but if it was manageable alongside caring for dcs I would give it a try.

ReallyTired Sun 31-Mar-13 22:31:00

Being a good breastfeeding supporter is not necessarily about experience. Its more of a councelling role. In fact peer supporters are not allowed to give breastfeeding advice. A peer supporter is not even allowed to correct an utterly appauling latch which is causing the mother awful pain. The idea is that the peer supporter just listens and the mother works out herself how to solve her own breastfeeding problems by just having someone to listen.

I did seriously consider being a peer supporter, but I felt I would struggle to remain calm and say nothing if a woman chose to make a decision that would sabortage her breastfeeding relationship.

I think you have to be mentally in quite a strong place to support someone in the early days of breastfeeding. A peer supporter is there for the benefit of the mother rather than the other way round. I dropped out of a breastfeeding peer supporter course because the issues raised were too much for me to deal with. I was struggling with anxiety and didn't want to talk about my breastfeeding history.

There are other ways of supporting breastfeeding and volunteering. Prehaps you could volunteer for La Leche League. There is a less of an issue with CRB checking because support is done by telephone or done at La Leche League meetings where you are not on your own.

ariane5 Sun 31-Mar-13 22:37:46

I really had my heart set on volunteering at the post natal ward of the local hosp (where the friend I mentioned volunteers) as I had all 4 dcs there and it is so incredibly busy and I had NO support at all when I was there, even with ds2 in NICU it was awful.

When she mentioned it I just thought it sounded wonderful they were adressing the lack of bf support there and I thought how much I'd like to be a part of that.

carovioletfizz Sun 31-Mar-13 22:41:41

Ariane, even if you are not admitted to a course with your conviction, you could still go along to local breastfeeding groups and offer support that way?

ariane5 Sun 31-Mar-13 22:46:20

The breastfeeding groups are in local childrens centres-would they not need crb check too? Or do you mean I could just pop in with ds2 anyway as bf him and just chat to other mums and offer support that way?

MerryMessiahWhingesAgain Sun 31-Mar-13 22:52:26

ReallyTired, that's not quite right. Peer supporters should not give advice, but they can give information and support. That information certainly can include suggestions of ways to get a good latch.

ariane5 Sun 31-Mar-13 23:00:29

I will enquire about courses/crb checks some more and see what the possibilities are as I would dearly like to do something like this.

I'm hoping that if I explain the circumstances it won't be an issue.

ReallyTired Sun 31-Mar-13 23:02:19

" Peer supporters should not give advice, but they can give information and support."

What is the difference between giving advice and giving information? Surely handing somone a leaflet on say low milk supply or pointing at a diagram in an NCT leaflet is indirectly giving advice.

I knew in my heart I would find hard to be a good girl and stick purely to the NCT folder of breastfeeding information. Some of the NCT leaflets are very good, but it is not the only source of good breastfeeding information. I also knew I would find hard to remain quiet and say nothing when a health visitor in the room spouted bullshit.

My understanding of peer support was that it was essentially active listening. The mother finds her own solutions by using the peer supporter as a sounding board.

OHforDUCKScake Sun 31-Mar-13 23:03:30

I was cautioned when I was 19.

Ive had several CRB checks since for various jobs and they have all been clear.

SuffolkNWhat Sun 31-Mar-13 23:13:10

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BookFairy Sun 31-Mar-13 23:20:16

The escalation of an argument with a family member is not the same as assaulting a random member of the public. Investigate further re. training etc. Don't give up immediately.

soontobeburns Sun 31-Mar-13 23:21:03

It doesn't automatically mean a no and may not show up. When I was 17 (2007) I got a conditional discharge for something non violent.
I have changed a lot and now I in youth work and need lots of access ni checks and it hasnt come up.

ariane5 Sun 31-Mar-13 23:23:37

Thankyou Suffolknwhat that is really helpful.

It would be a big commitment for me but I really need to do something, atm my life is just about dcs/illness/money problems and there has been no time for me to do anything else but I am fed up of feeling like this I want to get out, help others and in the process help myself.

Dh has to realise I need some time to do what interests me he has said he's willing to have dcs a couple of hrs a week if I really want to do something like this.

squeakytoy Sun 31-Mar-13 23:24:13

"My life is just looking after dcs/hosp appts I really really need an interest away from that"

But wouldnt you just be adding to the time you spend at the hospital confused

I can appreciate you might want to have a change of scenery, but having read your previous threads, you already have your hands full with your own childrens' needs.

ariane5 Sun 31-Mar-13 23:33:13

It would be very different attending hospital/bf group to support people than attending for dcs physio/hydro/clinic appts.

I do have my hands full yes but I thought why not stop complaining that things are awful/wont ever change and actually do something different.

Dh tries but does not always do as much as he could and I don't think itd hurt for him to give me a couple of hours 'off'.
I want to be a person in my own right and to be worth something and to have interests. I think if I have an outside interest I will have a healthier mind and a purpose.

SirBoobAlot Sun 31-Mar-13 23:39:06

Firstly on a practical level, if you have your hands full with various things right now, will you be able to commit yourself to the training, regular extra training sessions once qualified, and rota yourself to do groups / the hospital? I'm not trying to put you off, more that if you're already feeling vulnerable, starting something without being able to complete it might make you feel worse.

It might be worth finding out who the local training co-ordinator is, and giving them a ring. Training with the NHS is free.

FWIW I have a serious mental illness, including six months on a psych ward (in and out patient). My supervisors are aware of this, and are really helpful. Call them, explain the situation, go from there.

Though I would also say that it is tiring, emotional and bloody hard at times. You also say you're doing it because you want to get out. Whilst I understand and respect that, really you need to do something like this because you want to help other people - not because you want to help yourself. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh. I've been doing this for two and a half years now. I love it, and find it incredibly rewarding. But you need to look at why you're doing it.

If, for whatever reason, it doesn't work out, have you looked into doing some home study? Through the OU or something?

ariane5 Sun 31-Mar-13 23:45:49

I do want to get out yes, primarily to help others but it would help me too.

Bobyan Sun 31-Mar-13 23:57:07

This might sound very harsh OP, but given everything else you have posted about in the last few weeks would it really be fair to sign up to doing this?
It costs money to train volunteers and it is done on the expectation of them committing on a regular basis for a long period of time.

Are you truthfully in a position right now to commit yourself to something long term? I think if you are looking for an "escape" you might be better to do something focused on yourself such as meditation or a relaxation class...

SirBoobAlot Mon 01-Apr-13 00:03:24

I get that. Really do.

Like I said, find the details for the people who do the training locally. They will be able to speak to you about what is expected.

To give you an idea, the training here tends to be between 8 and 10 weeks depending on when it falls, and normally between 2 and 3 hours per session. After you've qualified, then you have to do another days safe guarding training, and a module on child protection. Once that has gone through, you then have to do at least three supervised sessions - these can be on the ward or in a group setting, both of which tend to be again between two and three hours at a time. You are then expected to be able to commit that same amount of time per week, plus paperwork. Three hours update / supervision session per six weeks.

ariane5 Mon 01-Apr-13 00:13:23

I just would like for there to be another aspect to my life.

I can see your point about meditation/relaxation etc and I know I have a huge amount to deal with but I'm thinking long term as I have to improve things somehow.

I have spent the last few days wondering how I can pull myself up out of the hole I'm in and improve things. It would be easy for me to carry on being downtrodden, trudging along and complaining.
Yes my dcs are all disabled but I can't just sit at home moaning forever.

I need to distance from my family and their issues.Dh has made steps with addressing his family problems this weekend.

I need to learn to drive and I need an interest away from everything else.

It would be easier to get dh to have dcs occasionally and for me to go and relax but long term that won't help me as much as if I had something else in my life.

merrymuzzie Mon 01-Apr-13 00:22:23

For all positions of this they will look at each individual case looking at the crime and the length of time elapsed. You can contact them to discuss it in confidence.

SirBoobAlot Mon 01-Apr-13 00:24:06

With all your DCs health considerations, would you be able to commit on suggested time scale I've suggested above, OP?

I totally understand why you want to do something. But I also know what it's like to go "RIGHT I need something else in my life, and THIS is what I am going to do!", without actually thinking it through. And again, I say that in the nicest way. There are various things that I have wanted to do, that I have had to slow down, step back and think about, before reaching the logical - and at times disappointing - conclusion.

It sounds like you have a lot of objectives to work with. Driving might be a good one to start with. Once you can drive, then you will have a lot more doors open to you.

Bobyan Mon 01-Apr-13 00:24:37

Maybe you should think more strategically, write a list of what you would like to achieve and then work toward them one by one.

So start with learning to drive, then look at what is on offer locally in terms of classes / short courses. Then once you have carried out a short term course and you know you can stick with it, move on to something bigger. Look at each item as a small step in the right direction.

I think you would find it much more manageable and you would be far more likely to succeed.

ariane5 Mon 01-Apr-13 00:31:55

It would not be something I could start immediately (as in tomorrow for example!) due to dd2 being very unwell recently with unstable diabetes but I would like to think I could commit that amount of time if I was allowed to pursue it due to crb issues at some point later in the year.

It is not just something I have plucked out of thin air to do, I have been interested since I had dd1 11yrs ago and had no support myself and as it is a subject Iam interestedin, passionate about and have experience with (good and bad) I feel I would do well if given the opportunity.

DH is capable of doing a bit more to help me and once dd2 is a bit more stable and ds2 is a little older (and not needing bf so much himself) I really do think I could do it.

SirBoobAlot Mon 01-Apr-13 00:39:48

In that case, start with learning to drive, and then work your way through some of these books:

- The Politics Of Breastfeeding
- The Food Of Love
- The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding
- So That's What They're For!
- Milk, Money and Madness
- Ina May's Guide to Breastfeeding.

I hope life starts to look up for you, OP.

ariane5 Mon 01-Apr-13 00:51:58

Thankyou sirboobalot.

I am sure things will improve soon. In the meantime I will make sure I have a read through the books you mention and keep my fingers crossed that when I do come to apply for a course/volunteeting my caution does not prevent me.

musicposy Mon 01-Apr-13 08:42:56

It may not prevent you if you are honest with them and explain in a letter in confidence with your application. DH works in an area where you need a clean enhanced CRB and yet he has a spent criminal conviction for theft. That sounds terrible, doesn't it? But when he was young and unemployed and depressed they cut his phone line off and he reconnected it himself. He got addicted to those expensive chatlines they used to run and ran up a massive amount. He was charged with theft of the phone service.
Every employer since has been absolutely fine with it. They recognize that he was young and skint and depressed and stupid. So with explanation you may be OK. Good luck with it!

kungfupannda Mon 01-Apr-13 08:55:34

Cautions are spent after 5 years - they'll still show up on a CRB check, but if they're not current you might have a better chance.

Just wait until the 5 years are up.

Twattybollocks Mon 01-Apr-13 08:57:10

I have been a bf supporter and the caution aside (which I wouldnt exclude you for given the circumstances) it can be very emotionally draining. Have you considered volunteering for a charity shop? I did this for a while in my late teens and had a whole lot of fun, made new friends and it got me out of the house. The bf thing seems the obvious choice given your experience but there is quite a bit of training involved and it's a big committment.

Lastyearsmodel Mon 01-Apr-13 09:19:46

Agree peer supporting is a big time and emotional commitment but wanted to add that at our recent update session we were reminded to declare any offences as they would not necessarily be a bar to being accePted as a peer supporter. What they value is honesty so they can look sensibly at your actual offence and situation.

As the op is asking for advice not info ;-) I would agree learning to drive if money allows is a great first option. Or does local children's centre do personal develo

Lastyearsmodel Mon 01-Apr-13 09:21:34

Posted early... Personal development-type courses? Ours does and they are v good - 2 hours a week to drink tea, natter to other women or not as you prefer and find out a bit about who you are now.

Lastyearsmodel Mon 01-Apr-13 09:22:40

Ps courses were free and had crèche.

ariane5 Mon 01-Apr-13 10:20:47

I will have a look into that thankyou. Local childrens centre where dd goes to pre school has a lot of bf groups so I could pop in and find things out (am there anyway term time as can't leave dd yet).

Really glad to hear that caution may not stop me doing it.

Tethering Mon 01-Apr-13 10:57:37

Our local health visitors and nursery nurses regularly asked for bfeeding mums to volunteer to talk to local bfeeding support groups. It didn't involve training and was purely about sharing your personal experiences. That might suit you better than becoming a peer educator.

ariane5 Mon 01-Apr-13 11:06:43

That sounds ideal tethering, I might ask when dd2 returns to pre school as its in same building.

I am there every week anyway (usually sittinig outside pre school room bf ds2!) I could easily pop into the group if they would allow me. Do I just go as normal and take it from there (I could join in my own right I suppose as bf ds) or do I do it formally as I want to help/talk and get crb check or will that not matter?

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS Mon 01-Apr-13 11:14:26

Yabu. I can totally see why you are really frustrated but if you have form for losing your temper and hitting someone then I can understand why the state can't 'endorse' you, iykwim.

ariane5 Mon 01-Apr-13 11:39:51

I am not violent though, it was a one off under extreme circumstances surely that would cancel it out somehow?

I have never ever had a problem before or after that one incident sad it was just a very very bad set of circumstances.

MummytoKatie Mon 01-Apr-13 12:26:40

I third the suggestion of the bf support groups. Perhaps go along with your baby, explain that you are interested in getting into peer supporting in the long term and just join as a mum. See if you enjoy it.

Simple things like "pubs / cafes I have breastfed and no-one blinked an eyelid" and an explanation of cluster feeding were worth their weight in gold to me. And these are things that you only know from being "in the tranches" so to speak.

Gossipmonster Mon 01-Apr-13 15:39:18

I run a project which relies heavily on volunteers.

Normally assault/drugs charges are more tricky than others but it can all be negotiated, it depends how long ago it was etc.

I have taken it up with HR in the past when I have really believed in someone.

ariane5 Mon 01-Apr-13 15:48:22

It was dec 2008 is that too recent do you think sad

The circumstances really were exceptional and to be honest although I was wrong to momentarily lose my temper I think dsis (she has terrible issues) had pre planned the whole scenario. I cannot even volunteer to do reading in ds1 school as they now do a crb check and I'm embarassed.

It is so unfair that because of somebody elses nastiness I now suffer years later unable to do things I would like to.

It is good to know things can be negotiated, it is just difficult speaking about what was such a heart breaking time in my life. I want to forget it but years later it is still affecting me because I have a caution. Is it true that after 5 years they are 'spent'?

Gossipmonster Mon 01-Apr-13 15:53:04

They stay on there forever but I would be happy to look at someone whose last conviction was 3/5 yrs old.

Important to be honest about it at interview IMO.

I personally feel that people should be given a second chance and should not be written off because they have made a mistake.

I think these experiences can be a great stepping stone to helping others smile

ariane5 Mon 01-Apr-13 15:59:32

Thankyou so much gossipmonster. I would def declare it at first opportunity. I just feel so sad that there are so many things it applies to, volunteering at ds school is probably the worst if I'm honest as people will make an instant judgement and not ever know What really happened.

It is reassuring to know that you would consider somebody with a conviction from a few years previously.

Gossipmonster Mon 01-Apr-13 16:09:01

Can you have a quiet word with someone sympathetic at school about it?

You won't be the first person they have encountered with this issue I am sure and they will appreciate your honesty?

Don't worry about people judging you - everyone is flawed smile.

My work involves children too - for me the most important thing (within reason and apart from skill set) is mentally being in the right place to support and help other people.

ariane5 Mon 01-Apr-13 16:17:30

I could speak to school but I am just so embarassed, the whole situation was awful and wouldn't be out of place on Jeremy kyle.

I just want to do things like pop into school to help with reading, volunteer to help with bf. I am so sad that I have to worry about something which I know I was wrong to do but wasn't really my fault.

CouthySaysEatChoccyEggs Mon 01-Apr-13 16:21:54

2008 + 5 years for the Caution to be spent = 2013. Depends on which month in the year you received your caution, but it's either spent or soon to be.

I think you still have to declare it, but it's far less of an issue once it's spent.

CouthySaysEatChoccyEggs Mon 01-Apr-13 16:25:11

After December then, your Caution will be spent, and will probably not cause you anywhere near the same amount of issues.

LIZS Mon 01-Apr-13 16:28:19

CRB check has changed now to DBS and is not always required if you are being supervised anyway.

WorraLiberty Mon 01-Apr-13 16:33:28

Just a thought but regarding 'explaining' that it wasn't your fault etc...

Do you have anything in writing to 'prove' what happened? Like access to police statements or something?

Otherwise, why would they take your word for it?

LIZS Mon 01-Apr-13 16:37:40

I wouldn't get into the why's and wherefores - it really won't help your argument if you look as if you are still holding a grudge, admit it happened but you have moved on.

Gossipmonster Mon 01-Apr-13 16:38:35

Agree with LIZS.

ariane5 Mon 01-Apr-13 16:49:07

It is hard to know how to get balance right as to how much info to give/not to give when explaining as there was a huge amount of vile provocatation.

I have a copy of the caution sheet it says that it was a caution for common assault, the date etc and that I slapped my (younger) sister on the cheek following an argument.

No details are given as to the nature of the argument or the fact I'd tried to walk away and she had run after me, carried on saying awful things which culminated inher opinion that my recent mmc was a blessing so that I didn't have" another retard child like dd1".

I can type it on here but couldn't explain that in person as it makes me cry and remember what happened after the argument as well sad

Altinkum Mon 01-Apr-13 16:51:29

Its good that your not being a bf support worker, its clear that if things do way above your tollorance levels, then you can't be trusted with vulnerable women.

WorraLiberty Mon 01-Apr-13 16:52:41

That's kind of my point OP sad

With no evidence, it's just your word you'd be asking them to believe so it's probably not worth dragging it all up and upsetting yourself.

Everyone with a caution/conviction/whatever will have a 'reason' for it and I'm not sure if they'd really be in a position to be able to listen to it.

LIZS Mon 01-Apr-13 16:54:48

Sorry but the circumstances don't really matter to anyone not directly involved, anymore than it did to the police at the time - if needs be state the fact and leave it at that.

Rainbowinthesky Mon 01-Apr-13 16:55:51

ariane5 - you sound like you would make a fab peer supporter. I would take the advice given here considering the other things going on in your life and write a list of what you want to achieve. As said already learning to drive is a good start. If you are in a position to have to explain your caution, don't try to make little of it and say it wasn't really your fault. Better to accept you made a one off mistake several years ago and have learnt from it.

Gossipmonster Mon 01-Apr-13 16:56:26

I would never ever want someone to bring in any "evidence" in relation to a past offence hmm.

I would trust it had been dealt with adequately at the time.

I would be interested in whether the person has moved on and more importantly if they were suitable/appropriate and could be trusted in a supporting role.

ariane5 Mon 01-Apr-13 16:58:33

Iam absolutely fine to be trusted with anybody, children, vulnerable people. I am in no way unstable or violent at all. It was a one off in extreme circumstances.

Never before or since have I lost my temper in that way.I am not that sort of person at all and probably a lot of it was due to hormones/recent loss and somebody being vile.

Nobody is perfect. I deserve a chance to do something I'd be good at.

Rainbowinthesky Mon 01-Apr-13 17:00:36

I also agree that if I were interviewing you, I wouldn't be interested in the circumstances leading up to it. I would assume the caution was a justified action by the police who had investigated it at the time. You would be better saying it was 5 years ago (once it is) and saying it didn't involve children but was after an argument with a family member.

Rainbowinthesky Mon 01-Apr-13 17:02:04

To be devil's advocate, if you were saying that to me as a potential volunteer it wouldn't cut it as you did get a caution for losing it. That's what I would see without knowing you well.

ariane5 Mon 01-Apr-13 17:03:00

I suppose at least the factual evidence I have (caution sheet) states it was just 1 slap to the cheek in an argument.

Even the police were a bit hmm at the time and one even said an argument between siblings was wasting their time but as it was 999 call they had to deal with it.

I will be up front about it, show the paperwork if needed but not go into too much detail then if that's best.hard to know what to do/say.

Altinkum Mon 01-Apr-13 17:03:02

So you say so, but evidence proves that you can't maintain you're temper and with that you result to violence.

How it happened does not matter, the fact you assaulted someone is enough to state you cannot be trusted to keep you're cool when times become tough.

Rainbowinthesky Mon 01-Apr-13 17:03:23

Can you find out for sure whether you need to declare it after 5 years?

ariane5 Mon 01-Apr-13 17:08:13

I think I would still have to declare it.

Iam def going to give it a go as I have so much experience and I know I'd be good at it, I'd really like to offer the support I didn't get when dcs were younger and had bf issues.

Gossipmonster Mon 01-Apr-13 17:08:18

It will be on her DSB/CRB declaring it isn't an option.

Seriously - if everyone I knew who worked in Children's Services was stopped from working because they had lost their temper (under extreme provocation) there would be a massive shortage of workers - and I include Social Workers in that too!!!!

Rainbowinthesky Mon 01-Apr-13 17:09:58

But there is a difference in losing your temper and losing your temper and slapping someone resulting in a police caution. That said, I still think you should try it.

LIZS Mon 01-Apr-13 17:11:08

Not sure if a DBS would be to hand at time of interview, you may only do the paperwork after an offer is made.

Gossipmonster Mon 01-Apr-13 17:12:04

Hmm but depends if the person you have slapped wants to use the law as a tool for revenge?

JustinBsMum Mon 01-Apr-13 17:12:29

Our local town has a volunteers office (though it's about to be merged with some other department) but if you could look online and see if there is one near you, OP, and see what else you can volunteer for.

For all you know they may not have vacancies for BF support workers at present. And as you are surrounded by DCs some quite different field might perk you up more.

Shame your sister reported you sad

Gossipmonster Mon 01-Apr-13 17:12:44

We make offers dependant on a CRB/DSB check.

Altinkum Mon 01-Apr-13 17:13:27

There is a massive difference is losing your temper and resulting to assaulting someone gossip!

Everyone loses their temper, in natural and human, its not human to slap someone and then be charged and caution.

Losing temper is one thing, breaking the law is another.

ariane5 Mon 01-Apr-13 17:15:30

It was an engineered situation by dsis, stupidly I gave her the reason she needed to get me arrested.

If I hadn't slapped her she unfortunately would have made some other allegation up as has severe problems. In a way it could be a blessing in disguise she didn't get that opportunity, as it happened I had involvement from SS as dcs were present at the time of arrest so she could have cost me a lot more.

I know I shouldn't have done it it was a split second silly mistake. I should have realised how severe dsis issues were and do what I do now (ignore her outbursts/distance myself).

Doesn't detract from the fact I have a lot to offer

JustinBsMum Mon 01-Apr-13 17:15:44

She was cautioned because her 'D'Sis dialled 999. Police are obliged to follow rules.

WorraLiberty Mon 01-Apr-13 17:17:58

No Justin she was cautioned because she hit her.

ariane5 Mon 01-Apr-13 17:20:12

It was barely even what you could call an 'argument' as that implies insults were thrown by both reality I was followed and ranted at for a good ten mins without replying untill her final insult broke me abou the baby I'd just lost and dd1.

Its in the past in every sense now except for the caution still affecting me sad

Rainbowinthesky Mon 01-Apr-13 17:22:58

Working with vulnerable people will cause stress and you may well find yourself in difficult situations again. I really think you need to take the attitude that you need to learn from this situaton and that it was your fault. As a teacher I have been put in countless stressful situations with teenagers goading me however it doesnt mean it would be acceptable for me to slap one of them. Also you assaulted her in front of dc.
However, I dont for one moment think this means you cannot learn and move on from this but I don't think you will get far trying to justify it.

WorraLiberty Mon 01-Apr-13 17:23:24

Well if you do have to explain OP (or if you want to) I'd keep it very minimal and show them the caution to prove the details of the assault.

I really wouldn't explain any more than the bare minimum because you may risk sounding as though you're minimising what you actually did.

That might lead them to think you're not really sorry or that you don't accept responsibility for your own actions.

ariane5 Mon 01-Apr-13 17:27:47

I cope really well in very stressful situations, I am actually a really calm person. I cope well under pressure (have 4 disabled dcs) and have a lot of experience that could really help others.I help at dd2 pre school every time she attends as cannot leave her, am I meant to let them know I have a caution?

I have never felt or been that angry before or after.It was truly a one off.

Rainbowinthesky Mon 01-Apr-13 17:31:10

Is a long standing arrangement that you are helping out at the playgroup? If it is then they should do a check on you.

ariane5 Mon 01-Apr-13 17:33:12

Dcs were present at time of arrest not assault. As they were in house at the time the police had to inform SS.

Dsis had phoned 999 initially but for some reason police didn't come immediately, so she phoned a second time, by then I was home.

ariane5 Mon 01-Apr-13 17:35:16

Well technically I am there with dd2 every session (mon-fri) but as I am there with her I help out a bit if she's sitting at an activity table and other children come along I do the activity with them too.

I'm there as a parent really I suppose not an official helper.

JustinBsMum Mon 01-Apr-13 17:37:33

No Justin she was cautioned because she hit her

But wouldn't have been if DSis hadn't dialled 999.

Rainbowinthesky Mon 01-Apr-13 17:40:55

You should be checked then. I am surprised they haven't. They are not following safeguarding rules.

McNewPants2013 Mon 01-Apr-13 17:42:09

You sound like you have alot on your plate. I can understand the feeling of wanting to do something for yourself but I think you need to rethink this.

Perhaps an evening course in collage, that is part time.

ariane5 Mon 01-Apr-13 17:43:22

Maybe it is different due to the fact I'm there for dd2

If they checked and I wasn't allowed to stay then dd would not be able to attend pre school?

Rainbowinthesky Mon 01-Apr-13 17:45:34

Doesnt make a difference.

LIZS Mon 01-Apr-13 17:46:51

I would have expected them to do a check tbh.

ariane5 Mon 01-Apr-13 17:47:55

Would it just be the case that they would be aware of the caution but I'd still be allowed in the setting with dd2?

Rainbowinthesky Mon 01-Apr-13 17:48:31

"Checks for visitors

Are DBS checks required for all visitors or volunteers to schools and colleges?

Visitors DBS checks are not required for visitors. Visitors do not have unsupervised access to children.
Volunteers Checks are required only for those who have regular and unsupervised access to children and young people. Under the terms of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 where a volunteer is being adequately supervised, they are not considered to be working in regulated activity however often they do this, and the school does not need to request a DBS check. The Department for Education will shortly be publishing guidance to help schools decide what level of supervision would be considered adequate.

For the purposes of an Ofsted inspection, schools (and colleges) should be able to explain the rationale for those who have been checked and those who have not. The key criterion for checking volunteers is regular unsupervised contact with children.
Actually you might be alright as long as you are supervised.

Rainbowinthesky Mon 01-Apr-13 17:49:06

We would have checked you in my school though.

ariane5 Mon 01-Apr-13 17:51:29

Yes always supervised, primarily I'm there to administer dd2 treatment if needed and to basically be her 1:1

I have the baby with me too and pop out of room to bf him I only really have contact with other children reading a story/doing an activity within the setting.

Altinkum Mon 01-Apr-13 17:51:34

OP assaulted her sister, we only have your side of it OP.

Of course she was cavities because her oater telephone the police, what a idiotic thing to say, of course the police have a crystal ball to know, that a criminal act is being done before the attacker does it....

LIZS Mon 01-Apr-13 17:51:44

I did wonder if it had changed . However Ariane you seem to be under the impression that this caution will automatically exclude you from applying for such roles which isn't necessarily so . It is more about risk assessment and safeguarding. Even our local FE college has a question on the form about previous offences.

Altinkum Mon 01-Apr-13 17:52:27

*Of course she was cautioned because her sister telephone the police

Rainbowinthesky Mon 01-Apr-13 17:54:30

You should be checked especially if you are moving around the building without a member of staff with you.

ariane5 Mon 01-Apr-13 17:57:05

I had assumed a caution would just exclude me from such things as at the time dsis had laughed and said I would prob have dcs taken away/never be allowed to help on a school trip/work in a school etc etc so I thought it would be a barrier to lots of things.

Dsis and dm have apologised for it since, if I was checked and asked about the circumstances would a letter from dsis admitting the level of provoking help (she would do it for me she has offered as she k nows at the time she was ina bad place) or again would that be going into it too much ?

Rainbowinthesky Mon 01-Apr-13 17:58:38

I honestly think it would be going into it too much. Don't try to excuse it. You need to show you have learnt from it.

ariane5 Mon 01-Apr-13 18:00:21

The pre school is at a childrens centre not a purpose built nursery so pretty much anybody can walk around as all sorts of classes held there.

crashdoll Mon 01-Apr-13 18:10:04

I agree with Rainbow if you make excuses, people will be a lot less willing to see that you have learnt from it and moved forward.

ariane5 Mon 01-Apr-13 18:18:26

I think so too. I will only offer an explanation if asked.

Might leave it with regards to pre school as they havnt approached me about a check so rather than bring it up myself I will leave it as do not want to jeopardise being able to stay with dd2.

ariane5 Mon 01-Apr-13 21:44:11

Just to add-out of interest are there any jobs that would be completely out of bounds for me then or is it really at the discretion of the employer?

At some point when dcs are much older I may consider working and something that would fit in with school day would be ideal I.e childminder, dinner lady, teaching asst etc. Would any of those jobs be open to me or not at all?

SirBoobAlot Tue 02-Apr-13 00:39:16

Think the OP has received some harsh comments here, actually.

Honestly if someone had said that to me after loosing a baby, I'd have probably slapped them too.

I punched a girl when I was fifteen following years of horrific bullying, culimating in an assault by her mother which triggered my mental illness. It was the first day back of the final year, she made one more snide comment and that was it. I reached my limit. I snapped.

I'm not a violent person. But she made my life hell. Her mother still manages to through the damage she did to me mentally.

I don't think loosing your temper under drastic circumstances can be suggested to make you a risk in a volunteer setting. The situations are entirely separate.

ariane5 Tue 02-Apr-13 07:25:29

SirBoobAlot-Thankyou, really good to feel as if somebody understands the place I was at that day. I know it was a mistake and a one off but its hard to explain that to people who have never been in a similar situation.

I can see why other posters have taken the view they have, a 'Common assault' caution does sound terrible I know. It is embarassing for me to have it hanging over my head and still affecting me now and possibly any employment choices I make in the future.I think that was the long term aim of dsis sadly though.

There's no much I can do if I don't explain it at all it sounds awful, if I try to explain the circumstances then it seems like I'm still dwelling on it (I probably am as I feel the victim myself).

What happened to you sounds horrific, I can't imagine what you went through with bullying on that scale.Thankyou though for mentioning it and trying to explain to other posters how a one off loss of temper doesn't define a person as 'violent'.

I will continue to look into things but am in no rush its just nice to (hopefully) plan ahead for when things with dcs are more settled etc.

HollyBerryBush Tue 02-Apr-13 07:57:28

At some point when dcs are much older I may consider working and something that would fit in with school day would be ideal I.e childminder, dinner lady, teaching asst etc. Would any of those jobs be open to me or not at all?

Highly unlikely, to work with the young, elderly and vulnerable you need an enhanced CRB check. there was a case in the papers a while back where someone was cautioned for scrumping for apples when they were 14, and couldn't be considered as a candidate for a voluntary job with the police advisory committee age 70 because of it. You cannot escape your past.

Some convictions will be filtered out eventually, but hat will be for minors, and isn't legislation yet.

ariane5 Tue 02-Apr-13 08:11:27

Such a shame sad with dcs disabilities a job would be difficult and something like I mentioned before would have been ideal and made it more likely for me to be able to work at some point.

Even volunteering looks as if itd be difficult.

Its ironic that I am actually no threat at all but because of on silly mistake I have a caution attached to me that will prevent me doing so much.
Dsis, on the other hand (if she wanted to work) could work anywhere and not one of her many violent incidents are ever going to impact on her life as none were reported.

crashdoll Tue 02-Apr-13 09:45:07

I'm sure a caution will be fine, as it's almost been 5 years. I'm on a social work degree with several people who've had previous minor convinctions/cautions and we're on placements with very vulnerable people.

Please do not stress! If you don't mind me saying - I've read your latest threads and think you need to give some time to yourself. Volunteering can be draining. Give yourself a couple of hours each week to just sleep or go for a walk alone or do something you couldn't do while caring for 4 children with high levels of need.

ariane5 Tue 02-Apr-13 09:52:55

It is hard with dcs I just thought getting out of the house and doing something productive and worthwhile would be better for me.

I could do with a rest but it never ends up happening even if dh is here and dcs are not having a terrible day I will end up cleaning not resting !

The 5 years is up in dec so until then I might just see what's out there that I could do. I just feel stuck in a rut, miserable and tired every single day and dealimg with dcs problems, a couple of hours a week away doing something different would be like a break in itself! I have been through a lot I think that's why I want to do something to help people as have a lot of experiencce with various things.

eavesdropping Tue 02-Apr-13 09:55:02

Hi ariane

I used to volunteer for a charity that was based in a hospital and was involved in their recruitment process. Each person had to be CRB checked before starting obviously, however if something showed up on their record, it wouldn't have automatically precluded them from going on to volunteer. The committee would have discussed it & also with volunteering services at the hospital. If all parties felt you were not a risk, then you could still be accepted.

I can't say whether your caution would preclude you or not - personally however if I was interviewing somebody to be a BF peer supporter and in every other way they seemed good, a caution from 5 years ago in those circumstances wouldn't put me off.

Good luck

Samu2 Tue 02-Apr-13 10:08:26

Some of these comments are bizarre.

She slapped her sister for what? saying horrible things about her disabled child just after she had lost a child? is that right OP?

Doesn't mean she is some kind of crazy arse who can't control her temper. She said she was provoked and while she shouldn't have slapped her I don't see someone she is helping to BF is going to provoke her the way her sister did.

I think most people would have lost it in that situation and it says nothing about her temper and ability to volunteer. We can all be pushed too far and I very much doubt anyone she works with is going to push her to her limits like her sister did on purpose.

ariane5 Tue 02-Apr-13 10:21:42

Yes samu2 that is what happened after a long morning of dsis ranting (she has many other issues going on) which escalated into the argument where I slapped her.

I wish I hadn't done it but I was severly provoked. I paid a high price for it I was thrown out with dcs same day and it was awful but looking back I can see it was pre planned by dsis and stupidly I reacted precisely how she wanted enabling her to get me arrested.

There is nothing I can do about it now, we have all tried to move on and it hasn't been a huge issue until now that I want to do things like volunteer/help in school.

It is the school thing that's the worst-for anything, trips, helping in class etc they do a check. Everybody knows me as quiet, polite etc and the caution I have got would really surprise them as it is so out of character. It sounds so awful I would almost have to explain it. I'm just so embarassed. That is the main problem.

Pandemoniaa Tue 02-Apr-13 10:29:17

You won't necessarily be ruled out of jobs that require an enhanced CRB. DP works for a not for profit organisation that requires all staff to be CRB checked at this level. It is not unusual for these checks to reveal convictions but they are assessed on a case by case basis. Admittedly, an assault charge would ring bells in normal circumstances but you'd be invited to explain the circumstances in which you got the caution before your application was refused. I have a feeling that all employers are required to do this for relatively minor criminal records and in the greater scheme of things, that's what a caution is.

LIZS Tue 02-Apr-13 10:29:17

Why don't you ask at the Childrens' Centre etc what might or might not be possible so at least you have the facts before applying ? The thread is now going around in circles.

ariane5 Tue 02-Apr-13 10:33:11

I could but the childrens centre is where dd2 pre school is and I don't want them to then stop me staying with her whilst they process a check as it could take weeks? During which she couldn't then go as I have to stay with her.

LIZS Tue 02-Apr-13 10:34:48

Checks can be done online , same day.

ariane5 Tue 02-Apr-13 10:36:20

Is there then a possibility I would not be allowed within the pre school setting though every day ?

LIZS Tue 02-Apr-13 10:38:27

No idea , but if you are found out not to have volunteered the info when you know you should then it won't look too good in future. Why not start by asking if , given the new system, you need one ?

ariane5 Tue 02-Apr-13 10:41:24

I did not know that I should have a check when I was staying with my daughter due to her disabilities.

I am not an actual 'volunteer' at the pre school I am there to look after dd2 it didn't even cross my mind till now whether I even should have asked. My main concern is dd being able to attend pre school safely.

Surely that is different? Do I really need to go through bringing it all up with them?

usualsuspect Tue 02-Apr-13 10:41:46

They usually just do a risk assessment if something dodgy shows up on a crb check. It doesn't automatically rule you out.

ariane5 Tue 02-Apr-13 10:43:32

I wonder if there's a phone helpline or similar where I could ask rather than where dd goes to pre school.

I think itd be easier over the phone than in person with people I know and I'd still get the answers I need?

Rainbowinthesky Tue 02-Apr-13 10:45:44

Trouble is it will be down to the discretion of the management of that particular place. There is little point in getting an answer from elsewhere because the preschool may take a very different view.

ariane5 Tue 02-Apr-13 10:48:17

But if that is the case at one pre school I assume it would be the same at all others? That would mean dd2 could not attend ANY of them sad just because I have a caution.

I don't know what to do

LIZS Tue 02-Apr-13 10:51:52

It is unlikely to preclude you as a one-off. Otherwise at some point presumably your dd will qualify for a statement and may have her own trained LSA. You can't just ignore it, Ofsted may well ask when they next visit.

Rainbowinthesky Tue 02-Apr-13 10:52:36

But you don't know that. No one at the preschool has asked you so there is no problem unless you tell them. If they do want to check you, you can then tell them and there is a good chance as they know and obviously already trust you, that it won't matter.

ariane5 Tue 02-Apr-13 10:57:40

They don't check parents who stay short term to settle dcs in and there is a parents rota where parents attend 1 session every so often just to be with their child and as far as I know there is no check for that.

I am staying with dd2 for the time being untill the staff can deal with her needs and administer treatments and untill I am happy to leave her so no idea how long it will go on for I just can't risk it being the case that they say no I can't stay as for at least the next few months I know I will need to, possibly longer I'm really not sure.

If they ask then obviously I will have to be checked.

LIZS Tue 02-Apr-13 11:00:15

As long as you are not one-to -one with another child then you are probably ok for now in that set up but you need to be under the supervision of someone who is checked.

ariane5 Tue 02-Apr-13 11:03:49

The room is very small and always other members of staff there.

Sometimes I am on an activity table with dd and one or two other children but still within that supervised environment.

Pandemoniaa Tue 02-Apr-13 11:17:01

I think you may be worrying too much here. Staying at pre-school to help with your dd's medical needs is quite different to working as a volunteer or counsellor. You are not there to work with other children, you are only there because the staff cannot yet administer your own child's treatments. I'd really not do, or say anything at all at the moment since nobody has suggested you need a CRB check for what you are currently doing.

ariane5 Wed 03-Apr-13 13:38:08

I have been in touch with the local voluntary services centre. They were lovely to me, I explained about wanting at some point to volunteer but that I have a caution for 5yrs ago-explained it was to do with an argument with a sibling but didn't elaborate further.

The lady I spoke to said it shouldn't stop me volunteering, that I may be asked about it but it shouldn't be an issue.

Feeling loads better now, they were really positive so hipefully when things at home are more settled I can look into bf support work properly or see if there's anything else I may be able to do depending on how dcs are.

Rainbowinthesky Wed 03-Apr-13 15:42:22

Hurrah for you. Well done. (Smile).

Rainbowinthesky Wed 03-Apr-13 15:43:03


ariane5 Wed 03-Apr-13 16:00:36

Thankyou.Really pleased, it will be good at some point to do something different.

Def going to look into driving lessons in meantime as that will also be a big help.
I just want to try and get things in some sort of order and make things better if possible (or just a bit easier!) For dcs.Then fingers crossed I can have a bit of time to pursue something for myself and get out of the house!

musicposy Fri 05-Apr-13 23:51:12

That sounds really positive - hope it goes well for you!

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