To expect dialogue on here to be civil and diplomatic most of the time?

(249 Posts)
cupcakemumma Sun 31-Mar-13 20:30:50

Feeling so sick and tired of many threads on this amazing site being poisoned by unkind responses. There is one thing being direct and all, but seriously, I cannot imagine that the tone used by some MN posters would be used outside outside of this place in the wider world and welcomed. Some people seem to enjoy getting a kick out of speaking to others in an over the top spikey way on here, generating responses picking people's words to pieces like amateur lawyers.

What do you all think, or is it just me? Can't we all just get along and support one another and enjoy each other's company in diplomatic way? What is the point of being on here if time isn't spent being pleasant?

confused

rhino1971 Sun 31-Mar-13 20:34:20

I happen to agree with you but this won't end well.

Lockedout434 Sun 31-Mar-13 20:38:25

Hop on to chat it's much kinder although aibu has some hilarious threads every so often

Sparklingbrook Sun 31-Mar-13 20:41:43

YANBU. They have been named 'the pouncers'. Hovering around AIBU ready to pounce with a snotty curt reply that is very unhelpful. Or maybe a very wordy patronising one, sad

I imagine they don't speak to strangers in the street the way they do on here. But hey, it's the anonymous internet so who cares?

Buddhagirl Sun 31-Mar-13 20:44:37

Yabu this is the internet, it will never change. MN has such high traffic that we can just ignore the unkind responses. Plus one persons unkind is another persons direct.

BumpingFuglies Sun 31-Mar-13 20:48:49

OP what is the world like? Do we all get along and speak nicely and debate civilly? No.

Don't read it if you don't like it.

Sparklingbrook Sun 31-Mar-13 20:49:53

Yes but Bumping you wouldn't speak to a stranger in the street the way some do on here.

LaQueen Sun 31-Mar-13 20:49:55

Oh cupcakemumma you really are spoiling us... grin

BumpingFuglies Sun 31-Mar-13 20:53:04

A stranger in the street isn't likely to start a debate with me though. A forum is something you join, to discuss/debate/talk/argue. It's divided into sections which explain the nature of the discussions.

Sparklingbrook Sun 31-Mar-13 20:58:31

I suppose not Bumping, I agree with discuss/debate/talk but I didn't join MN to argue.

Ditzydit Sun 31-Mar-13 21:01:36

You are right, I am shocked by the tone of many of the posters on this site.

BumpingFuglies Sun 31-Mar-13 21:02:32

Sparkling oh yes you did...smile

OhDearieDearieMe Sun 31-Mar-13 21:04:28

Maybe the other mum/hun/glitter type site is more for you then OP? This wonderful site where it is ok to speak freely and not hun all over the place until everyone throws up is maybe not for you? That's ok you know. You don't HAVE to use it.

Sparklingbrook Sun 31-Mar-13 21:08:10

No I didn't Bumping. shock I am rubbish at arguing. sad

Ditzydit Sun 31-Mar-13 21:08:34

But some of them are so right wing, it shouldn't be allowed really.

Kleptronic Sun 31-Mar-13 21:09:48

What, being right wing shouldn't be allowed? Isn't that a bit, erm, right wing? <head implodes>

TheSecondComing Sun 31-Mar-13 21:10:49

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SecretLindtBunny Sun 31-Mar-13 21:11:22

Seriously, just ignore if you don't like it, report if you feel that it's over the top and hide AIBU.

Sparklingbrook Sun 31-Mar-13 21:11:41

I don't swear in RL so don't on here.

Sparklingbrook Sun 31-Mar-13 21:12:05

Except the odd 'FFS' in jest.

christinarossetti Sun 31-Mar-13 21:12:46

I'm with you cupcakemamma, although looks like this thread has already started to go off the rails.

I don't know about expecting civility and diplomacy, but fewer 'why did you marry him, he sounds like a cunt?' responses to someone posting one or two sentences about their life would suit me.

cupcakemumma Sun 31-Mar-13 21:14:37

Bumping, It isn't that I expect everyone to always agree, life certainly isn't like that. Happy to debate, I just find some people's tone so aggressive/verging on tactless on here when it isn't necessary. It just brings unpleasantness to a site that is so helpful to so many. Doesn't seem like debating sometimes. Just people coming on to have a pop at a stranger for example, under the guise of a 'reality check' I can't imagine they'd even offer their own friends or family etc.

Sparkling, lol 'The Pouncers! An apt funny nickname there smile

Rhino, I don't imagine for a second that this will end well, just wanted to see if others thought similarly as I do at times on this matter.

Lockedout, cheers, I will go on to chat, thank you.

Ditzydit Sun 31-Mar-13 21:15:59

No Kleptronic these people are evil.

Sparklingbrook Sun 31-Mar-13 21:16:02

Not forgetting 'get a grip' that's always ultra helpful.

greencolorpack Sun 31-Mar-13 21:17:21

Reporting doesn't work, I speak from experience.

I agree with you cupcake - there's directness and honesty, and then there's the needlessly rude reply that isn't helpful.

I do like 'The Pouncers' too smile

BumpingFuglies Sun 31-Mar-13 21:19:39

Sparkling you were supposed to say "Oh no I didn't" panto style

<disappointed>

Actually OP, I think I see what you mean now.

I'm just getting a bit tired of MN "analysing" itself. There seem to be as many threads about MN as about the very topics it's meant to discuss.

crashdoll Sun 31-Mar-13 21:23:06

It has got very bitchy on here over the last couple of weeks. It's fucking rude to say we want glitter and hugs. hmm There's speaking your opinion and there's jumping on people just to belittle them.

Sparklingbrook Sun 31-Mar-13 21:27:08

Sorry Bumping. 'IT's BEHIND YOU'. grin

There's a very good how often do you change your pants thread at the moment if anyone feels MN is getting a bit much. grin

cupcakemumma Sun 31-Mar-13 21:27:34

Ohdeariedearieme, thank you for providing an example of the kind of thing my post was about.

What are you on about - Mum/Hun/glitter? I'm discussing in a forum about the manner of debating and discussion, not stopping free speech.

abbyfromoz Sun 31-Mar-13 21:27:40

YADNBU.

Tee2072 Sun 31-Mar-13 21:29:10

"I'm just getting a bit tired of MN "analysing" itself. There seem to be as many threads about MN as about the very topics it's meant to discuss."

This. Can we just stop talking about what MN 'should' be or 'could' be and just let it be?

Yes, people are more direct than they are in real life. Well, not me, I'm this direct in real life. Ask my friends. But, that's the internet, not MN. Whether you think it's words on a screen or not, you can be someone you aren't on the internet. It's the beauty and the curse of the place.

cupcakemumma Sun 31-Mar-13 21:32:13

Crash doll, I have noticed this too. Very much of late.

crashdoll Sun 31-Mar-13 21:33:09

I don't really think it is on for people to tell us what can and cannot be discussed. If you're not interested, don't read!

OhDearieDearieMe Sun 31-Mar-13 21:33:29

Well you didn't let me down on that one at least!

And read Tee's post. Do you really have to analyse everything to death? How is you want people to be? Because you don't want direct or to the point. You don't want hugz and hunz. Oh - you just want it bland and boring and discussing knitted toilet roll covers? Good luck with that.

Dearie - no, but you can have debate without being needlessly insulting, or rude. And that doesn't mean it has to be beige either.

Pagwatch Sun 31-Mar-13 21:39:31

I wish there was more 'don't be so gratuitously rude' posts made on threads where it happens rather than naval gazing tbh.

I think there are some really unpleasant posters - the 'I feel sorry for your children' types annoy me immensely.
But I see more posts complaint about it on separate threads than I see posters challenging it when it happens.

We are all responsible for the tone here.

BumpingFuglies Sun 31-Mar-13 21:39:56

Sparkling Oh no you're not.

OP, I think you are being too idealistic. It's what you make of it and what the whole population make of it. It's self moderating to an extent. Which is not to say that people should be nasty for the sake of it - just that sometimes it happens.

cupcakemumma Sun 31-Mar-13 21:40:29

Tee, what you're saying is a very valid point, not just MN and of course it is a true reflection of the Internet.

crashdoll Sun 31-Mar-13 21:44:54

Did you mean to be so rude? Lots of things get discussed to death, why do you think this topic is so important for you to stick your oar in?

I like healthy debate. Some people are just plain rude, as you evidenced so beautifully.

crashdoll Sun 31-Mar-13 21:45:17

That was to ohdearie

OhDearieDearieMe Sun 31-Mar-13 21:47:18

Yes. I did mean to be so rude. If you think that was rude, really rude, then you'd best stock up on Valium!

crashdoll Sun 31-Mar-13 21:50:44

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OhDearieDearieMe Sun 31-Mar-13 21:54:27

Oh do calm down crashdoll - it's not like I'm telling you to fuck off or anything. Goodness me!

crashdoll Sun 31-Mar-13 21:55:26

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Tee2072 Sun 31-Mar-13 21:56:00

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greencolorpack Sun 31-Mar-13 21:57:18

I think this thread is not long for this world.

cupcakemumma Sun 31-Mar-13 21:57:56

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crashdoll Sun 31-Mar-13 21:59:33

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OhDearieDearieMe Sun 31-Mar-13 22:01:24

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crashdoll Sun 31-Mar-13 22:01:48

I just wonder if any of the nit pickers realise that they could be starting on vulnerable people who start threads seeking advice. You have no idea of the mental states of some of the posters. It's horrible. sad

cupcakemumma Sun 31-Mar-13 22:04:24

Greencolorpack, i bloody hope so and I was the one who started this sodding thing in the first place. Yet again, a venomed thread. sad

WorraLiberty Sun 31-Mar-13 22:05:48

I agree with Tee and Pagwatch here.

<< Passes Dearie a box of mansize tissues >>

Shhh don't tell the feminists...blush wink

crashdoll Sun 31-Mar-13 22:06:24

cupcake You're very naughty for starting a thread that a few posters are apparently not interested in. I mean, it's so sad that there isn't any way to maybe not read the thread.

BarredfromhavingStella Sun 31-Mar-13 22:06:43

I'm pretty direct in RL, tbh cunt is my fave swear word & don't really get why it's more offensive than any other, however i'm never rude for the sake of it & am sometimes amazed at how vicious people can get over seemingly trivial things.

Don't think YABU.

nenevomito Sun 31-Mar-13 22:07:49

I'm just getting a bit tired of MN "analysing" itself. There seem to be as many threads about MN as about the very topics it's meant to discuss.

MN is a bit like the BBC in this respect. There's nowt that MNers like more than to discuss MN.

OP, some folk are snidey peeps and there's not much can be done about it other than ignore them.

OhDearieDearieMe Sun 31-Mar-13 22:08:45

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crashdoll Sun 31-Mar-13 22:09:55

babyheave I agree that ignoring people is the best policy but it grinds my gears when people go on and on and on and on at people who come across as quite vulnerable. I wouldn't have commented if I thought it was only AIBU, I've seen it on other boards too.

beautyfades Sun 31-Mar-13 22:11:11

YANBU.

greencolorpack Sun 31-Mar-13 22:12:40

Crash doll I do agree with you, it is very worrying.

There is a pattern online sometimes.... Poster posts with dilemma, everyone decided dilemma is comical rather than "real" and so they subtly bully the poster, and not so subtly and then suddenly the genuine OP gets labeled a troll and then everyone feels free to attack everything about them and when not doing that they take the mick or derail the thread in other ways.... And everyone decides its "ok" cos the Op was "only a troll" but who gets to decide who is an evil malevolent troll and who is just a poor unfortunate poster that everyone decides is their new favourite plaything for blood sports?

One day one of these "trolls" will be pushed over the edge because they are genuinely in distress.

Cupcakemumma, that is a shame about the thread going tits up.

cupcakemumma Sun 31-Mar-13 22:12:52

Crash doll, it really, really concerns me too. The very reason why I started the thread in the first place. Very frightening as the reality is there are many people on here who don't have confidence to respond to some of the strongest caustic responses. This evening on other posts, I have read some utterly awful replies to very vulnerable and troubled OP's and I'm bloody sick of seeing this kind of thing. Disgraceful how people hide behind a nickname veil to say what they want, not thinking of the consequences of their tone.

beautyfades Sun 31-Mar-13 22:15:05

There is things i would like to post for advice on but dont as know what i would be met with..

Feeling so uplifted and optimistic of many threads on this amazing site being responded to by kind responses. There is one thing being direct and all, but seriously, I cannot imagine that the tone used by some MN posters would be used outside outside of this place in the wider world and not welcomed. Some people seem to enjoy helping others in an over the top generous way on here, generating responses picking people's words to pieces like they want to help for no personal reward.

Perception is all smile

Pagwatch Sun 31-Mar-13 22:16:39

Can I ask cupcake, the utterly awful replies you have read elsewhere tonight, have you reported them or challenged them?

charming posts from some. its the baseball bat approach that is really startling. fuck off to nethuns if you dont like it (I paraphrase) indicates some sense of entitlement to being aggressive and bullying. if i suggested to a poster that they should join a football hooligan forum because i thought they were more suited to its reductionist entitled aggression im sure i would get very short shrift. and of course those kind of posts only show the poster up as being rather, well, lacking.

Tee2072 Sun 31-Mar-13 22:17:10

Oh was that deleted? Do tied if not being able to tell the truth on here.

GFs all over the place.

crashdoll Sun 31-Mar-13 22:17:43

I know this wasn't directed at me but I have reported posts and they get deleted but the damage has often been done.

Pagwatch Sun 31-Mar-13 22:18:41

Beautyfades
In general if you avoid aibu you will get sensible replies.
You will always get some crap ones because some people are thick.

crashdoll Sun 31-Mar-13 22:19:33

You can tell the truth Tee but it's frowned up by HQ to swear directly at and attack people in your quest to share perceived great truths with the world.

Kleptronic Sun 31-Mar-13 22:20:03

I agree with Pag, I have said stuff myself on threads when I've thought people were being bandwagonesque, not gone and started a general thread complaining about it. Challenge where you find it, then whichever the OP was will at least get a balance, is my motto. Not a snappy one, granted.

Then again I do also go 'meh' and post nothing, mostly.

nenevomito Sun 31-Mar-13 22:20:27

crashdoll & cupcake If I spot someone going after a vulnerable poster, I report it and will usually challenge it as well.

If someone is just being cunty with every reply they do then the ignore works, but you're right that going after someone is shitty.

Challenge, if you can't challenge report.

CSIJanner Sun 31-Mar-13 22:21:44

The trouble is some people just see a screen. They see the words but not that there's possibly a vulnerable person behind the keyboard. The internet can make some perfectly lovely people in life separate what they type to real life and empathy. Plus the written word can be read with different tones in other people's heads IYSWIM - did they write that sarcastically, sympathetically or cynically etc which can lead to different responses according to what someone has read and the type of mood they are in.

are you going to give us some fabulous example of how rude/crass/vulgar/bitchy you could be if you really tried Dearie?

HesterShaw Sun 31-Mar-13 22:23:42

YANBU.

cupcakemumma Sun 31-Mar-13 22:25:26

Pagwatch, yes, they have been challenged and reported.

I haven't come by the term GF before, what does this mean please?

GreenEggsAndNichts Sun 31-Mar-13 22:26:53

Darn, I can see by the series of deletions that I picked the wrong time to stop reading this thread earlier.

WorraLiberty Sun 31-Mar-13 22:27:03

Goady Fucker

echt Sun 31-Mar-13 22:28:09

GF = goady fucker. I think.

echt Sun 31-Mar-13 22:28:31

X post.

OhDearieDearieMe Sun 31-Mar-13 22:29:36

Sorry to ruin your night Madame but no - I think perhaps not on this occasion.
I'm sure your motives for asking are entirely non-goady though smile

Pagwatch Sun 31-Mar-13 22:30:56

Good. Because I think mnhq do like to spot persistent offenders.
And I think sometimes pile ins start and if one person challenges it can change the tone of the thread.

Stepissue Sun 31-Mar-13 22:33:00

spot on OP and Crashdoll.

good dearie. im glad you dont propose to trot out anymore pouncer cliches for us. so dull.

cupcakemumma Sun 31-Mar-13 22:34:57

Babyheave, absolutely on the reporting and challenging front. Your advice on the ignoring front is a very sound suggestion. it is so incredibly hard though! very tough to bite your tongue when you come across some horrible vindictive replies.

Stepissue Sun 31-Mar-13 22:35:25

Is 'GF' the new way of closing debate instead of 'po'?? confused Seems very similar tactic.

christinarossetti Sun 31-Mar-13 22:37:42

That's interesting, as I tend to challenge rather than report but will do both in future. I agree about the odiousness of the 'I feel sorry for your children' posters and can only conclude that these posters have deeply rooted ishoooos that they are acting out by hurling abuse at random strangers on the internet.

I don't have a problem with people speaking directly, it's the jumping to the 'why did you marry him them?' type of responses followed by scorn and more people piling in to bully if the OP says that they don't find this helpful that I find distasteful.

dont know step. i do know that i for one resent posters that say their particular brand of outspokenness is the norm for mn and that if another poster disagrees they should leave mn.

Stepissue Sun 31-Mar-13 22:41:56

Good point Madame - 'if you don't like it you can fuck off/join nethuns/get a life' etc etc hmm Their way or the high way.

Maybe they're actually Justine in disguise?! hmm grin

cupcakemumma Sun 31-Mar-13 22:42:15

Absolutely Madame, we are all members, it's so wrong for anyone to say someone should leave if they can't tolerate rude behaviour on here.

christinarossetti Sun 31-Mar-13 22:44:55

It isn't just rudeness, though, is it? It's spite, bullying, ganging up and sheer nastiness sometimes.

It's not 'wrong', it's just a pov. Ignore it, challenge it or report it.

cupcakemumma Sun 31-Mar-13 22:47:24

Christina you've hit the nail on the head, spite is a far better descriptive.

Ditzydit Sun 31-Mar-13 22:48:39

Reporting is a bit grassy though isn't it greencolorpack but I suppose you have time to do it.

usualsuspect Sun 31-Mar-13 22:50:35

Challenge it on the thread.I often jump in if I see a pile in.

Stepissue Sun 31-Mar-13 22:51:03

Excellent example there, thank you Ditzy grin

And 'grassy'? Are you very young?

christinarossetti Sun 31-Mar-13 22:54:40

There are two points here.... firstly, that someone who is feeling vulnerable may not feel up to challenge multiple people piling in to say 'I feel sorry for your children' followed by 'you're in denial' if they suggest that these responses aren't helpful. Equally difficult to ignore.

Secondly, why should people have to? Why is being treated with a bit of respect such a big ask (and no doubt one worthy of much derision once I press the 'post' button).

Abitlikechicken Sun 31-Mar-13 22:54:45

YANBU. I recently read a rather curt remark, to which the OP asked if she meant to be so rude, to which the poster replied that yes, she had. Why outwardly and openly try an offend people?

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greencolorpack Sun 31-Mar-13 23:01:01

Ditzy I think "report and ignore" is usually the best response. You try engaging with people when you are the minority and the other side is a hostile dog pile, you know what that makes you? A troll. So what choice do you have? Retreat, silence... And the bullies win. So you are either a troll or you're silenced. Not much fun being in the minority.

Being a grass? What does it matter really. If these people hate you anyway you might as well report them it's not like they are suddenly going to change heart and respect you.

its not necessarily chivalry thats wanted...just not a full on bitch slapping for an op right from the off.

christinarossetti Sun 31-Mar-13 23:04:27

Exactly. And not everyone has an encyclopaedia knowledge of which posters to treat like dog shit.

That's not the norm, Madame, as I'm sure you'll agree.

I don't run through Active when I log on and see that happening regularly.

You don't need a list of posters, christina. Just the posts you see, taken on their own merits.

Yes I agree.
I have posted a couple of things recently, after a long absence, and I have been surprised at the aggressive nature of the responses and the accusations.
I guess it has always been like this but as other posters have said, it's really a bad idea given that no one knows the mental state of the person posting.
I don't really understand this instinct to be aggressive and nasty. I honestly don't.
Say something helpful, useful, relevant, or sympathetic, or why bother?

maybe its just aibu and having had a longish break i have actually been shocked at how vicious it has become. imo.

usualsuspect Sun 31-Mar-13 23:12:07

AIBU is not the place to get advice

Maryz Sun 31-Mar-13 23:12:37

I think it is, most of the time.

If you look at all the threads on mumnset, the vast vast majority of replies are helpful, supportive and bloody nice.

There is a greater proportion of snippy replies on aibu, but even there the majority of replies are pleasant enough. And the snippy ones are usually challenged (and the challenger promptly attacked a lot of the time hmm).

Having said that, I was on a thread today where the op was very rude. But I told her so on the thread. I suspect she didn't agree with me.

I have noticed it on chat.

Sparklingbrook Sun 31-Mar-13 23:13:48

I said today that AIBU should be renamed 'What do you make of this?' without the Op having to say what they think of it to start with.

I think AIBU can be a microcosm of MN, yes. It's not really representative and MNHQ will address posting behaviour if it's drawn to their attention. Which isn't 'grassy' - pretty childish to say a moderation policy that allows a hell of a lot of posting freedom is that.

If it's just something at the bottom of Last 15 Minutes it is diluted by all the other threads on here filled with help and support and advice.

There's a What Would You Do? section, Sparkling, which would be a bit of a duplication imo.

Sparklingbrook Sun 31-Mar-13 23:18:56

Yes true Beer, I must have that hidden. Forgotten all about it.

I don't think you've hidden it, Sparkling, I think it's just not used much.

Maryz Sun 31-Mar-13 23:21:15

No, AIBU should be divided into:

I am being reasonable, come and agree with me;

I am a nutter, and totally unreasonable but I don't think I am

and

I want a rant.

Sparklingbrook Sun 31-Mar-13 23:21:38

We need to drag it out of the cobwebs Beer. A lot of AIBUs would be better on there.

Most of the OPs in WWYD are measured and actually seeking helpful responses, that I've seen.

As MN has grown I think AIBU has shifted away from its jokey humphy tone and is the focus for pitched battles. You'll certainly find the highest proportion of nc and stirring there.

Maryz Sun 31-Mar-13 23:31:36

Yes, WWYD is a great topic.

But if you try posting anything there, it will have disappeared off active by the time you have clicked refresh, never to be seen again.

It's dead as a doornail in there [sigh]

Me and Sparkling will form a Tag Team of Bumpiness for WWYD grin

Sparklingbrook Sun 31-Mar-13 23:34:14

I am trying to think of a WWYD to post Beer. grin

We can mainline biscuits and energy drinks, Sparkling.

If We Post It They Will Come.

possibly. If it isn't all kicking off in AIBU

Theshriekingharpy Sun 31-Mar-13 23:43:04

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

foxache Sun 31-Mar-13 23:46:28

I love WWYD too, I used to post there a lot in my previous and nc names. It does move, but with benevolence of kind posters. I will look too, but tomorrow now.

christinarossetti Sun 31-Mar-13 23:54:06

I don't think people are picking up the point about possible emotional vulnerability in some posters who start threads for advice or support.

And it's not just aibu where some posters are spiteful and unnecessarily nasty. It used to be but this had changed over the last year or so to become common place in chat.

cupcakemumma Sun 31-Mar-13 23:57:06

Very interesting reading, thank you shriekingharpy.

Maryz Mon 01-Apr-13 00:01:25

I do think people are aware of it, Christina. And it is often picked up on and I have seen op's supported and snippy replies giving a bollocking. But on aibu, it is less likely to happen for two reasons. Many supportive "regulars" on boards like mh and relationships don't go on aibu. At all, ever.

I have often suggested to people that I think sound vulnerable that they should post on another board, or get their post moved. Of course, sometimes I'm then told the op can post where they like, it's not my business to tell them what to do hmm.

The reason it's spreading over the board is that some posters only post in aibu - and occasionally access a thread on another board through most active I reckon. So they answer all threads as though they were an aibu thread. Often nastily hmm

But the only way to deal with it is for everyone to challenge on thread.

cupcakemumma Mon 01-Apr-13 00:02:01

Christina, absolutely - it is very worrying thinking of how vulnerable posters deal with things on here.

BarredfromhavingStella Mon 01-Apr-13 00:08:06

When I first came to MN AIBU made me laugh so much as there were so many amusing threads & I couldn't get enough, these days unfortunately I find myself laughing less & having frequent breaks from the site as the pure venom & spitefullness (fuck me is that how you spell it?) of some posters is just vile & completely unnecessary.

Like I said previously, i'm blunt but some on here take the biscuit & are simply looking for a fight.

usualsuspect Mon 01-Apr-13 00:08:51

Tbh if vulnerable posters need a lot of support an online chat forum is not the best place to get it.

Maryz Mon 01-Apr-13 00:17:02

Yes I agree with that usual.

And I also think that sometimes it is obvious to some of us that it is a pile of steaming shite, made up by the op to make already vulnerable readers feel really awful.

Sometimes, when reading an aibu which seems very odd, if a lot of posters are going hmm and others are asking questions that the op is refusing to answer, it is because the thread has happened before, has upset a lot of people, and has turned out to be a troll. There has been some really hurtful stuff on here over the years, and long-time posters can be a bit wary.

You know the old adage - if it looks like a troll, sounds like a troll and has hairy hands, it is likely to be a pile of shite.

If an op is genuine, they will listen to advice, answer questions, engage with other posters (even sometimes move their post to a better place). If they do none of those things, then remember, not everyone on the internet is who they claim to be.

Maryz Mon 01-Apr-13 00:18:18

Sorry, I know that sounds like I agree with troll-hunting - I don't really.

But I just know that for every poster there are many reading lurkers. And threads on very highly sensitive issues can upset many, many people. Not just the op.

christinarossetti Mon 01-Apr-13 00:32:18

Exactly. It may not just be the op who is feeling a bit wobbly. People piling in saying I feel sorry for your children or the like doesn't really help anyone. Does it

I'm talking about people who may be feeling vulnerable because they're upset or discussing something personal, which could be anyone who posts on here at a particular time, not a group of 'vulnerable posters'.

if the bile was contained in aibu it wouldn't be as unpleasant as the current trend for it to be all over chat and the like.

Sunnywithshowers Mon 01-Apr-13 00:35:43

I agree with MaryZ about the trolling.

Last week there was a thread about a child with cancer which was distressing for many - the second by the same poster. sad Deleted for 'not being what they seemed'.

I try and remember to be polite etc, but think frustration sometimes gets the better of me. Particularly when the OP / commenter sounds like a troll / shit stirrer I have 'met' before. Or when they come on and say something like 'ladies, this is how you must x y z' which gets right up my nose.

Maryz Mon 01-Apr-13 00:38:49

Yes, the prolific trolls have a recognisable turn of phrase.

I must say, when I see an emotive thread, and the first few answers are normally-supportive-regulars questioning things, I am a bit hmm. And I have discovered recently that when I'm hmm, more often than not it ends up being deleted.

CherylTrole Mon 01-Apr-13 00:44:15

YADNBU It gets particularly stupid when a few posters talk amongst themselves on a thread about something totally irrelevant. That to me is spiteful. Have seen this a lot over the years. Always seems to be some frequent posters/ longtimers. Who by the way dont know everything/ make the rules <even though they think they do>

Maryz Mon 01-Apr-13 00:47:30

To be fair, Cheryl, threads on Mumsnet are like conversations, not like question and answer sessions.

Often threads move on, away from the original point, like conversations in a pub. So it is seldom deliberate derailing or deliberate rudeness (apart from the dodgy hairy-handed posts), it is a conversation which evolves. If the op comes back and asks for it to go back on track, it usually does.

Maryz Mon 01-Apr-13 00:49:40

I do think that's something that newbies should be told about, btw.

Maybe in the talk guidelines it should say that it is a "talk board" not a "question and answer board".

It is what makes mumsnet so very different from other forums. In other forums, people ask a question, and get a few replies. On MN, people ask a question and generate a conversation, which like most conversations can go off-topic, back on topic and off on another tangent altogether.

It isn't deliberate, it's just the way the conversation flows. And once newbies get used to it, most of them like it.

CherylTrole Mon 01-Apr-13 01:24:07

The thing is most OPs dont want to come back and talk.
I dont understand why you are explaining everything?

ComposHat Mon 01-Apr-13 01:36:53

I have caught myself behaving quite badly on the odd-thread, it is quite easy to forget there's someone else behind the computer screen with feelings. On one occasion I stopped posting for a few weeks as I was worried I was turning into a right cunt. I felt doubly bad as I am a very placid, nervy and mild-mannered in real life, but was becoming this vile person, being unnecessarily hostile and cruel to complete strangers.

Whilst I think everyone should behave well on the internet and on AIBU, I don't think you can or should enforce it. It is a forum where people are seeking opinions, some of which they may not like. Posters always have the option to ignore posters they find rude or unhelpful.

cumfy Mon 01-Apr-13 02:10:01

I think in many ways it is civilised given the material discussed.

But, divergent opinions are likely given the topics that arise which themselves are largely about disputes and dilemmas.

You often get a split between those identifying with the OP and the "other" person/group, and the discussion here can mirror the differences very acutely.

I view it as quite helpful, whether the discussion is placid or violent.

Pagwatch Mon 01-Apr-13 02:57:25

Christinarosetti,

Someone vulnerable may not be up to challenging but I am not suggesting that the person feeling attacked should be the one doing it.
People who object to tht tone should do it if they think it is a problem.

Also I wish people would stop treating this as if there is one group of people running around bullying and attacking.
People post in different ways at different times. We can all be snappish at times. We can post something funny which sounds rude. We can think we are being funny and fail. We can read something in one context and be fine then in another be hurt and upset.

I have seen someone post and then be called on it only to say 'sorry - I am having a crap day . I didn't mean it to sound so shitty'
Sometimes we can be meaner than we intend. Sometimes people can over react to a remark.

But painting this as 'there are nice posters and then there is one big gang roaming around being rude and shutting down everyone else' is nonsense. And presenting it as fact as damaging because it creates the idea that someone speaking up will be attacked which i don't think is true.
Most of the 'I feel sorry for your children ' stuff is from individual posters converging on an aibu where they think a one line attack isn't a problem.

pollypandemonium Mon 01-Apr-13 03:05:38

I totally agree with you cupcake. It's so predictable but so sad. But I do wish MN would stop deleting posts as they actually show up the offenders. Deleting the posts simply wipes their slate clean.

Also allowing people to bump threads up to 1000 posts so that they disappear and nobody sees the offence again. It's classic manipulative playground bully stuff and a bit sad and pathetic.

pollypandemonium Mon 01-Apr-13 03:12:13

And maryz I think you've got it wrong shock it's nothing like a conversation in a pub - Chat is, but there are distinct topics and people ask advice so yes it is a q&a session. People want perspective. Going off on a tangent is fine if it's developing on the theme but more often than not it's obstructive behaviour.

And why do you feel hmm if people are given support after their posts? That's just assuming they are trolls.

Pagwatch Mon 01-Apr-13 03:17:43

I prefer posts to stand too Polly but you simply cannot expect mnhq not to delete posts that are against site rules. It's their website and if they don't delete then racist, disablist revolting stuff will pepper the boards.

I haven't seen a thread bumped to close for years.

alwayslateforwork Mon 01-Apr-13 03:24:24

Rofl at 'are you very young?" <with optional head tilt>

More than one way to be snarky, eh, step issue? Fine example of passive aggressive backsplash.

VestaCurry Mon 01-Apr-13 03:32:36

Maybe because it's a BH weekend, more people are getting pissed and then firing off posts that are more combative than usual?

christinarossetti Mon 01-Apr-13 06:39:20

I don't understand your point about 'nice posters ... and gangs' Pagwatch. I don't think anyone has described the situation like that.

Unfortunately, the 'I feel sorry for your children' mass responses don't just happen in aibu nor is every thread that goes that way deleted because it turns out that the op is a troll.

Pagwatch Mon 01-Apr-13 06:49:54

I think cumfy described it better than me. The posters seeing posters as other.

I think it's been described in 'them and us' terms on here. But you don't have to agree of course.

BellaVita Mon 01-Apr-13 07:05:22

OP - AIBU?

MN - YES

OP -NO IAM NOT <la la la fingers in ears> This = spikey responses!

Steer clear of AIBU!

exoticfruits Mon 01-Apr-13 07:19:15

Just steer clear of AIBU - it isn't a thread for support. In an appropriate place people will be supportive.
The problem lies in the fact that very few people are asking a genuine question. They post because they are perfectly sure that they are entirely reasonable and to others it is glaringly obvious that they are not! People say so, quite forcefully at times. The OP generally comes back with the 'fingers in the ears' response, or they disappear. It is very refreshing, and very unusual, for them to change their minds and say they were wrong.
I don't see how it is helpful for them to have a cosy agreement- people probably are very polite in RL and they will never know the truth.

cupcakemumma Mon 01-Apr-13 08:29:58

Bella and Exotic, 'no one should have to stay clear' of a part of this website, so as to avoid the kinds of posters who even have the front to say 'yes I am being deliberately rude' etc. My original post was not one seeking support, it was genuinely seeking discussion over a matter, which to be clear wasn't only centered on the AIBU threads. As other people have mentioned above, over aggression and direct rudeness has been experienced by us on other areas of MN.

Vesta, I think you could be right there!

Usual, you're right in your point about seeking support on an online chat room isn't the best place, but the reality is some vulnerable people will, because the Internet is so accessible and tbh, I should imagine people seeking support on here would never expect to receive rude responses if they need reassurance or help.

Stepissue Mon 01-Apr-13 09:33:07

Alwayslateforwork - grin Actually it was a genuine 'Are you very young?' as it reminded me of school with 'grasses' hmm I did consider the optional head tilt but decided it was PA so let it go smile

crashdoll Mon 01-Apr-13 11:02:32

I see a couple of people have said AIBU is not a place for support but I said this on another thread and was challenged. MNHQ came along and promptly told me I was wrong.

pollypandemonium Mon 01-Apr-13 11:19:05

It's absurd to assume that people posting in AIBU are 'fair game'. Another excuse to continue the bullying culture of some posters (only a handful). There are some people out there who are very vulnerable and very dependent on advice from MN and that should never be forgotten.

Pagwatch Mon 01-Apr-13 11:26:40

Does anyone really go into aibu for advice though?

No one should be fair game. No one is fair game. And anyone bullying should be challenged and/or reported. But aibu is very robust even within posting rules. Anyone with a problem and seeking advice /support is more likely to find it in a more relevant section.

I completely agree tat the aibu attitude is spreading. I am far more inclined to report shitty posting in chat or relationships. Ome days I have o chose what to report because the 'jeez. Is that all you have to worry about' posts are everywhere.

I wish they could all be corralled into aibu. At least it warns posters that replies will be full on.

usualsuspect Mon 01-Apr-13 11:48:26

No one said they were fair game, just this morning someone has posted in AIBU for advice because it gets more traffic.

If you point out the relevant section, you get called the thread police.

You can't win on MN, no matter what you do.

echt Mon 01-Apr-13 11:49:44

crashdoll did MNHQ say you were wrong or mistaken?

Instead of AIBU there is:

Chat
What would you do?
Relationships

etc. etc. etc.

Yet posters choose to post on AIBU.

Heat. Kitchen.

Arabesque Mon 01-Apr-13 12:03:14

OP YANBU. I know AIBU is meant to be a bit more straight talking than the Chat forum but some posters go waay OTT and are downright nasty and unpleasant. I have often found myself wondering, appalled, 'does she actually have children??' because some of the responses are so childishly spiteful or bitchy or rude it's scary to think the poster is actually responsible for rearing another human being.
What amazes me is when a thread is started on a subject that seems fairly innocuous and everyone is discussing it in a fairly amiable way and then someone comes on with eyes narrowed and finger nails tapping ominously and completely turns the thread around into an absolute bunfight, with a handful of equally unpleasant posters only too happy to rally around namecalling, bitching and generally behaving like a crowd of bullies (while the more reasoned posters quietly withdraw from the scene). When the OP eventually realises there's no point in arguing and also removes herself from the unedifying brawl, the bullies then crow about how she's been 'shamed off' the thread. sad

Maryz Mon 01-Apr-13 12:07:49

Polly, you seem convinced that there is a massive bullying problem on mumsnet. I assume you have reported it to mnhq?

I don't agree that aibu should be "fair game" but sadly that's the way it has become. Personally I'd be happy if they got rid of aibu altogether, but since they won't I would like to see a stronger warning when you start a new thread in aibu.

Something along the lines of "aibu is probably not the best place to start a thread looking for support and/sympathy. It tends to be a very robust part of the board, many aibu questions divide opinion and elicit very strong opinions on both sides of the argument. If you are looking for support and advice, it might be better to post in (and a link to relationships, chat, parenting, whatever).

Newbies see aibu (often arrive via a googled aibu thread) and post in the first place they see. And it can be a disaster.

(How's the head this afternoon Pag? Am I allowed to ask, or is that deliberately derailing the thread? Not a snippy remark, but a genuine question).

Maryz Mon 01-Apr-13 12:09:33

Arabesque, do you have an example of that? Because I hope if you do you have reported it.

Arabesque Mon 01-Apr-13 12:12:54

It's sad though, MaryZ, that some grown women would behave so badly that such a warning would have to be put up.
There unfortunately seem to be some quite thick posters who don't understand the difference between 'straight talking' and 'offensive', or 'witty' and 'insulting and hurtful.'

abbyfromoz Mon 01-Apr-13 12:15:12

I think that a lot of replies tend to be in the category of insinuating that someone is not a good parent because of their choices. A quick way to make a personal attack- and a cowardly and hasty thing to do from a distance. A lot of posters try to justify their remarks with semantics (eg 'no one said you are a hard mother! Just we hope you soften up') errrr... Ok so i'm misunderstanding you somehow? This is where it becomes bullying and catty... Like feeding time at the zoo everyone wants a piece of the action...
I am with you OP. Some people need a lesson in conduct certainly.

Arabesque Mon 01-Apr-13 12:16:28

Sorry, just seen your last post. Yes, I've seen it on a few threads and have sometimes reported posts that seem particularly nasty or personal. Some have been removed, some have been let stand.
It also happened to me recently and to be honest I was really annoyed that the posters who had been agreeing with me on the first two pages of the thread suddenly disappeared when a nasty poster came on and turned a very non controversial topic into a horrible bunfight, joined by another really spiky poster. It wasn't that I wanted everyone to agree with me, but it was the really confrontational and 'fuck off' tone of their posts that made me feel a bit sick. One of the posters had got massive sympathy on here for a difficult issue she was dealing with and it was horrible to see her suddenly behaving in such a nasty manner.

Maryz Mon 01-Apr-13 12:21:15

Yes, abby. I personally would much prefer to be told to fuck off than have a sarcy passive aggressive "I feel sorry for your children" thrown at me. The latter is much more hurtful and much more likely to make a poster feel shit. Yet because of the mn personal attack rules, more posters are very carefully posting the latter rather than the former, to avoid deletion.

I think it's horrible, and I do call people on it.

Yes, I see what you mean there Arab. I do think there are some very bitter people on here, who actually feel better by making other people feel worse. It's hard to deal with, but if you see someone doing it often do report it. MNHQ can add up reports from different threads to build up a picture and can deal with people who do it a lot.

But I still think there is a difference between deliberately derailing and shutting down, and a thread wandering off at a tangent.

Arabesque Mon 01-Apr-13 12:36:37

I agree MaryZ. I do try and wade in and support someone who's being unfairly attacked, or report it to MNHQ if it becomes really personal and nasty. But I wish more posters would directly address another poster who's being gratuitously nasty and call them on it. As someone said up thread, you see lots of threads about nasty posting, but challenging it at the time is more effective. I bet a lot of the worst offenders are reading this thread and assuming it's 'other people' we're talking about on here, because they genuinely don't realise how rude and unpleasant they come across in a lot of their posts.

Pagwatch Mon 01-Apr-13 12:38:23

The head is fine Maryz. It's the advantage of never going too long before the next drink. grin
I have burnt legs though <sigh>.
I spend all my time coating and re-coating the DC with suncrem but clealy didn't put enough on me.

Excuse the brief derail folks..

Ullena Mon 01-Apr-13 12:43:51

I'm much nicer on here than in real life! Am I doing it wrong?

I experienced a lot of very bad stuff whilst growing up and eventually developed the habit of keeping others at a distance. Because every time that I lowered my defences I would be hurt again. Eventually you do stop letting others in. Even DH is on the periphery of my emotional field: I just don't trust humans. You can tell what an animal is going to do by its body language, they don't lie. Humans lie all the time. I am much better at spotting it now, which just compounds the issue as it makes me even more wary.

Being on here has helped though. I can put labels on what happened now and say that no, that was wrong, that wasn't normal, I wasn't to blame for that. So I try to be nice on here.

Sunnywithshowers Mon 01-Apr-13 14:13:51

Arabesque you mention up thread about wondering whether a nasty poster actually has children. I'd suggest that both parents and non parents are equally capable of bad behaviour. I don't have children but that doesn't automatically make me unfeeling or uncaring. sad

greencolorpack Mon 01-Apr-13 14:29:59

sunny I was thinking the same thing. The bullies and rude bitchy people of the world are as fecund as the rest of them. There's no reason why being a mother makes you a better person.

LaQueen Mon 01-Apr-13 14:35:45

"To be fair, Cheryl, threads on Mumsnet are like conversations, not like question and answer sessions."

Yes, I agree with that Mary. I know I will often break off, from the main gist of a thread to have a quick aside with someone I know on the thread. I certainly don't perceive myself as being spiteful for doing this (what an odd concept)...

Instead, I guess I visualise the thread as a room full of people, all generally talking along the same lines...but, with several sub-conversations also running alongside the main debate.

This is how conversation flows, especially when there are dozens of people involved. The talk flows, twists, loops back on itself, twirls a bit.

I have a relative who gets quite arsey, when we're out in a group, and the conversation is switching back and forth, with people chipping in...she genuinely gets quite irritable, and thinks people aren't being suitably polite/interested in her. Basically, she thinks that one person (i.e. her) should speak, whilst everyone else listens...and, then there should be a suitable pause, before another person speaks, and then everyone listens...etc.

Not really tenable in a large group of people, and makes for pretty dull conversation, too.

I think people who perceive this as spiteful or mean behaviour, perhaps need to relax a bit more, and not take it personally, because it's really, really not meant personally.

Stepissue Mon 01-Apr-13 15:17:25

I think that's a bit of a strawman Lequeen, no one minds people chatting to each other, the thread going off at a tangent etc I assume. It's the purposeful derailment more.

usualsuspect Mon 01-Apr-13 15:27:49

I've never seen a serious thread on here derailed.I've seen plenty of troll threads derailed though.

LaQueen Mon 01-Apr-13 15:28:39

Oh, I see what you mean Step.

I think it's very bad form, if people deliberately try and derail what is clearly intended to be a serious thread started by an OP.

But, I don't think it hurts that much, when a derailment happens on a generalised thread? I think MN-etters often judge the tone of the thread, and decide if it's okay to whizz it away to something else?

I don't think the intention is usually malicious though.

pollypandemonium Mon 01-Apr-13 15:33:27

Laqueen your relative sounds a bit PO to me. Interesting that the same happens to you in RL.

Mary you are passing the buck by saying there should be a stronger warning on there. People should be able to ask what they like and be respected.

If you want a party go to a party! Or stay in Chat.

usualsuspect Mon 01-Apr-13 15:35:08

If you want advice post in the relevant topic.

Stepissue Mon 01-Apr-13 15:40:59

Lequeen - totally agree, usually these things meander and that's great and makes it a fun place, its only when on a serious thread its not nice.

Usual, I've seen it on quite a few serious threads, if they then turned out to be trolls then I missed that bit, but they may well have. Isn't derailing a troll thread (suspected troll thread I should say) similar to troll hunting which is not allowed though?

applefalls Mon 01-Apr-13 15:41:03

My doddery old uncle pops offf to the odd lunchtime classical concert. If I had to haul him out of a moshpit covered in gob and cider,

LaQueen Mon 01-Apr-13 15:42:31

Agree with usual - if you're feeling very vulnerable, then best not post in AIBU. Because people will be very straight/direct and there can be some nastiness (although, I genuinely don't see it much, at all).

And, it only stands to reason that if someone is already feeling very upset/vulnerable then they're going to take it (probably) too personally, when the other MN-etter thought they were only being direct/straight with them.

LaQueen Mon 01-Apr-13 15:44:08

I don't think I've ever seen a serious thread de-railed? I think if you've been on MN for a while, you get quite adept at judging which ones are genuinely serious/straight...and which ones are potentially viable for de-railing?

applefalls Mon 01-Apr-13 15:45:48

My doddery old uncle pops offf to the odd lunchtime classical concert. If I had to haul him out of a moshpit with his cardi covered in gob and cider, I'd feel sorry that he'd had an unexpected hard time.

But I'd also wonder wtf he was thinking going there in the first place.

Lots of gentle thoughtful support all over this site. Many categories seem woefully underused.

But AIBU is neither obligatory nor pretending to be anything other than robust exchanges. Join in if you feel up to it, body swerve if not?

applefalls Mon 01-Apr-13 15:47:18

X-post and double cock-up post. Sigh.

usualsuspect Mon 01-Apr-13 15:53:24

If I was feeling vulnerable and needed support I would not post in AIBU.

Why would you? People need to get a feel for the site and have a look around before they start posting.

Diving straight into AIBU because you think you will get more replies is not the right way to use MN IMO.

usualsuspect Mon 01-Apr-13 15:57:59

This thread should have been posted in site stuff wink grin

pollypandemonium Mon 01-Apr-13 15:57:59

*Laqueen you think that there are 'viable for derailing'?

Why would you want to derail them? Can't you just let them lie if you don't like them?

pollypandemonium Mon 01-Apr-13 15:59:12

And who said it was your job to derail them let alone decide which ones should be derailed? Report them if you think they are suspect.

pollypandemonium Mon 01-Apr-13 16:00:52

My thoughts exactly usualsuspect. You can see where it's heading.

usualsuspect Mon 01-Apr-13 16:03:52

Sometimes a bit of derailment eases the tension on threads that are getting a bit heated.

hedgefund Mon 01-Apr-13 16:04:32

i do think some (me included!) posters spend way too much time on here and to amuse themselves they get stuck into threads just to 'show off' or entertain themselves or their mn mates.

it's not a supportive site anymore - it's just got very very big! but i do with some posters would hold back a little or start their own threads instead of jumping on others to be arsey for the sake of it.

LaQueen Mon 01-Apr-13 16:08:11

Polly I didn't necessarily say I judged them, and decided to de-rail them, far from it. I don't bother to report anything, and don't ever get involved in any of thr Troll Hunting stuff, either.

I said that I think MN-etters (in general) often read a thread, decide it's quite a light hearted, non specific thread, and think it doesn't matter if it bursts into 101 tangents.

CherylTrole Mon 01-Apr-13 16:33:28

After reading all the pages and pages of PO info I have had my eyes opened. Watching the PO hunts with interest. Am laughing at those defensive posters on this thread. Protesting too much ........

usualsuspect Mon 01-Apr-13 16:50:09

Really , spit it out then?

Come on, all these veiled comments get right on my tits.

INeedThatForkOff Mon 01-Apr-13 16:53:54

I'm committing a MN sin here by not reading the thread, but I couldn't agree more. I'm so tired of reading belligerent responses and utterly inane threads. I really need to stay away from the tedium that is AIBU.

Maryz Mon 01-Apr-13 17:17:45

Of course it's a supportive site hedgefund shock. 99% of the threads are very supportive. Probably more. A small percentage of threads in one topic go nasty. But that doesn't mean the site as a whole isn't supportive.

Polly, I'm not passing the buck. I'm saying that simply asking the question "AIBU" is going to result in getting a number of replies saying "YABU and here is why". If what you really want is support and sympathy, then hearing people tell you that you are being unreasonable can be upsetting. Hence the suggestion that new people to the site, who may not realise that the question AIBU will be answered honestly, might be better to be sent elsewhere. To the other eleventy million topics where they will definitely get support.

applefalls Mon 01-Apr-13 17:29:39

Anyway, aybu To expect dialogue on here to be civil and diplomatic most of the time? nope, not in the least.

And I believe, if you take the whole MN experience, this is generally a supportive welcoming place. but it's so much more than just AIBU. if it's too abrasive, you will always have the choice, with the greatest respect, to keep to gentler sections.

I nc and post all over the shop. But if I wanted guaranteed kid gloves, I wouldn't dream of posting on AIBU.

LadyBeaEGGleEyes Mon 01-Apr-13 17:52:56

I'm getting bored of these type of threads now.
It just seems they become sneaky digs at people that certain posters don't like, but never name.
If you disagree with someone do it on the thread in question.
I manage to do it without, hopefully, offending people, I certainly try not to, even if they're talking the biggest load of crap ever.
I like the ones that meander on to other things, and I've never seen it happen to someone that is genuinely upset.
I come on here for fun mostly, and a lot of the posters I do gravitate to are names I recognise who make me smile.
I don't get why people resent that.

pollypandemonium Mon 01-Apr-13 17:57:59

But the default position, regardless of where something is posted, should surely be to disagree respectfully if you want to disagree. Nobody comes on a forum expecting only to be agreed with, what often happens often is they are misunderstood and the more abrasive people won't accept that they have misunderstood them or think they are being up themselves and then it goes apeshit. AIBU or AINBU?

And ususally the reason the abrasive people won't accept they are wrong is because they have an audience and they then have to back themselves up or talk the other person down.

This thread has already been derailed to being about AIBU when it's about being civil and diplomatic. It's been derailed because a lot of posters still believe AIBU is fair game, not just to disagree with people, but to be rude to them.

Laqueen I don't think you understand the issue about derailing a thread. It is great to have random banter going back and forth (the prelude to thread derailing) but matter is important to someone it's downright rude to bring random banter into it. Both in RL and online.

EggyFucker Mon 01-Apr-13 18:04:23

You folks that say that serious threads don't get derailed mustn't have spent any time on the Relationships board, where vulnerable people do post.

It's a hell hole in there.

usualsuspect Mon 01-Apr-13 18:05:43

Have it your way,Polly you seem determined to paint us all as a bunch of bullies. I'm out

TheSecondComing Mon 01-Apr-13 18:07:28

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LadyBeaEGGleEyes Mon 01-Apr-13 18:10:07

I never post on the relationship boards EggyFucker.
I have done in the past, but IME it's, sadly, the target for fantasists and trolls, and I honestly never believe half the threads on there sad

gotthemoononastick Mon 01-Apr-13 18:12:50

All I can say is that I love all these rude cheeky girls!My eyes bleed at the swearing and nasty" don't google"things, but learnt many useful things on here too.They give good advice and are very (whispers) kind.Just do not be silly in AIUBU!...you know when you are!
Should be on Gransnet,but it bores me to tears!

Pagwatch Mon 01-Apr-13 18:14:16

I think painting those who grudgingly accept that aibu is the nastier side of mn as people who think it is 'fair game' is something of a misrepresentation.

I accept that aibu is unfortunately home to some people who pile in and want a fight. I don't like it but there is little I can do about it. And the dislike many of us feel about some of those who hang out there is slightly worsened by the knowledge that it is one of the more popular board and that people do extraordinary linguistic loops to get their thread within the 'aibu...' format.

EggyFucker Mon 01-Apr-13 18:15:11

LadyBea...it's also a target for derailers and people looking to grind other individual poster's gears

It never used to be, though. I find that most decent folk would accept there is often a very vulnerable poster on the other side of the screen sad

Not sure what's happened recently, but it's not good

LaQueen Mon 01-Apr-13 18:30:20

"Laqueen I don't think you understand the issue about derailing a thread. It is great to have random banter going back and forth (the prelude to thread derailing) but matter is important to someone it's downright rude to bring random banter into it. Both in RL and online."

Polly I think we're arguing at cross purposes? I agree with you - I think it incredibly rude/childish to deliberately try and derail a serious thread, when someone is clearly very upset.

But, I don't think I have seen that done very often?

But, then again, I actually tend to veer away from genuinely serious threads, because that's not typically what I come onto MN for.

LaQueen Mon 01-Apr-13 18:33:42

Also, Polly to refer back to your earlier post, I think it's often all about tone, which is notoriously difficult to judge, when you have zero visual clues etc.

One person's being respectful can vary quite a bit, from anothers - and therein lies the rub.

nenevomito Mon 01-Apr-13 18:35:37

I'm sure "its AIBU" shouldn't be an excuse to behave like a dick.

usualsuspect Mon 01-Apr-13 18:38:52

No one said that. < gives up>

LaQueen Mon 01-Apr-13 18:45:54

Have been pondering this, and chatted it over with a friend I know who also uses MN.

We have come to the conclusion that there is a group of people who tend to frequent AIBU, mainly because it moves very quickly, it's very varied, a lot of the threads can be very amusing and decidedly a bit out there etc.

Then, there are obviously a group of people who genuinely need to use AIBU, and need advice, and are perhaps struggling, vulnerable, sensitive etc.

And, the two groups might often not be a good, healthy mix? And, that's where the troubles start.

Maryz Mon 01-Apr-13 18:47:45

I don't actually think aibu is fair game.

I'm simply pointing out that recently it seems to be, so suggesting people who are feeling sensitive or who genuinely want support not discussion would be better posting elsewhere.

And I also don't think this thread has been derailed at all [baffled]. It has simply been pointed out that if we are talking about people being abrasive it is usually on aibu threads.

And I agree with LBE. This should be fun, not permanent infighting and people using this type of thread to score points hmm

AF, I've been amazed by some of the things I've seen in relationships recently. I think the trolls have moved from being the op's to being the repliers, if you see what I mean. Unfortunately because of the trolling there, I think many people who would have spoken up in the past have hidden the whole topic.

EggyFucker Mon 01-Apr-13 18:49:21

I agree with you, mary. It's a shame, though.

crashdoll Mon 01-Apr-13 18:49:51

I'm getting bored of these type of threads now. It just seems they become sneaky digs at people that certain posters don't like, but never name.

I respectfully disagree and I'm getting bored of being told what to post. When I find threads boring, I just don't read or reply.

I genuinely cannot think of the name of one poster who I would say has been a consistent nit-picky PITA but I can recall several threads where people just pile in and go mad. We have freedom of speech on the internet but is it so hard to occasionally take a step back and realise that there a human beings behind the computer screen? I know I have been guilty of being OTT in the past and forgetting that I'm typing to human beings with emotions.

LaQueen Mon 01-Apr-13 18:55:36

"When I find threads boring, I just don't read or reply."

This ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

There must be 1001 new threads every day on MN, so I just pick the few which interest/entertain me. I don't waste a moment of my life, on threads which I find dull, annoying, or irritating. I waste even less time, actually posting to say that I find them dull, or boring, or irritating.

Why would I, or anyone for that matter?

Sparklingbrook Mon 01-Apr-13 18:58:47

Sometimes it's the threads that start out fine, you join, then they go all pear shaped and you have to hide them that are the most confusing.

crashdoll Mon 01-Apr-13 19:52:43

Kind of related - I am on another forum where people post constantly and whinge how much they hate certain TV programmes. It's not like they try something new, dislike it and discuss it but they actually watch series after series and whinge. I once said I can't imagine my life ever being so boring that I'd force myself to do that!

cupcakemumma Mon 01-Apr-13 20:02:52

Exactly LaQueen and Sparklingbrook, when you invest your time on here (which isn't an awful lot in my case having a 17 mo), it's pretty rubbish when you join in on a decent seeming, interesting thread which goes from fine into an acidic mess.

LaQueen Mon 01-Apr-13 20:10:19

Agree cup - and I just don't get it?

And, I get even less why people take the time and effort, over and over again to post saying that they really dislike certain stuff, or that they find certain types of thread boring/irritating...

I really think they should notify the police, about the person holding a gun to their head making them wade through all these threads which they find so tiresome and annoying.

cupcakemumma Mon 01-Apr-13 20:12:31

Jeez Crashdoll, me neither!

Sparklingbrook Mon 01-Apr-13 20:14:29

I have been on threads that started out fine. Discussion, views exchanged, interesting debate with loads of great differing points of view. Then from nowhere a poster will arrive, derail completely , a bunfight ensues with deletions aplenty. Leaving everyone a bit 'what happened there?'.

Sparklingbrook Mon 01-Apr-13 20:16:31

Even my Ant and Dec for a webchat thread went a bit horrible. sad

Maryz Mon 01-Apr-13 20:28:07

I posted an aibu once.

Obviously I wasn't being unreasonable at all. But some posters didn't realise that for some reason. It may have been to do with the fact that they presumed that dh's family are normal reasonable members of the human race, which they aren't.

It didn't go well.

I haven't done it since.

<wibble>

Sparklingbrook Mon 01-Apr-13 20:31:00

I got myself in a mess starting an AIBU on Friday. I knew what I meant then made a right hash of explaining it. Got called ignorant and there were multiple 'What is the point of this thread' posts. Never again.

cupcakemumma Mon 01-Apr-13 20:33:07

Lol Sparkling, how could an Ant and Dec post turn into a bun fight? Interested to hear the story for that one going sour, do tell!smilewine of course, related to topic!

Sparklingbrook Mon 01-Apr-13 20:34:54

It seems unbelievably that not everyone would like Ant and Dec for a webchat. sad Too 'TV Quick/ITV' or something. Oh and not parents so what could they possibly have to say. It's in Site Stuff somewhere.

Sparklingbrook Mon 01-Apr-13 20:37:28
AmIthatWintry Mon 01-Apr-13 20:43:23

Well, I'm going to put my hands up and say that I was totally out of order on Saturday night. I was foul mouthed and had a real go at an OP. She made what I felt was a flippant remark about ASN and I reacted in a completely over the top way.

I did regret and reported my post.

I am sorry I was not more mature in my response blush

LadyBeaEGGleEyes Mon 01-Apr-13 20:43:57

I don't think I saw that Sparkling.
I've never seen you be unreasonable, apart from the fact that you watch crap daytime tv like me which I love too seems to be rather unpopular on here.

Sparklingbrook Mon 01-Apr-13 20:45:13

Oh Lady I made a real hash of it I really did. Best you didn't see it. grin

Stepissue Mon 01-Apr-13 20:47:47

If we're doing confessions... I watch and SkyPlus Jeremy Kyle blush

Sparklingbrook Mon 01-Apr-13 20:49:40

Sounds like we need an amnesty thread for everyone to confess their MN mistakes.

Or terrible daytime TV habits. I watch Doctors BBC1 weekdays 1.45

Maryz Mon 01-Apr-13 20:52:47

You see AmI, that's great. I do think many people would apologise if it was pointed out to them on the thread if they are being particularly arsy. I certainly do.

Whereas I feel resentful on threads like this with accusations of "bullying gangs" and "people who feel they can do what they like" etc.

Oh my goodness, Sparkling. That went arseabouttit didn't it.

LadyBeaEGGleEyes Mon 01-Apr-13 20:59:23

I'm a Wright Stuff/This Morning person myself.
And I <confession> like Holly and Phil.
I used to watch Doctors till Jimmy got kidnapped by the weird bother and sister and his girlfriend went into witness protection and didn't he dye his hair a silly colour?
I got totally lost after that.

cupcakemumma Mon 01-Apr-13 21:30:09

Wow Sparkling! There were some right 'treasures' with a lovely way with words getting stuck into your post there. From lighthearted to lary in 0-60! Poor you sad

Should that Webchat happen, it would have a lot of people interested, so hope it would work out.
In fact, I read an interview recently with Ant McPartlin where he explained that both his wife and he are experiencing conception problems. Could be a relevant choice for a Webchat considering the fact that there are many people on here joining forums on the same.

girliefriend Mon 01-Apr-13 21:37:51

yanbu - op

Reported a post for the first time this week after the op got called a cunt when her original post had been about her neighbours complaining about the noise her ill dd had been making at night.

It is just so unnecessary.

AmIthatWintry Mon 01-Apr-13 21:44:09

oh, girliefriend, that was maybe me. I reported myself.

AmIthatWintry Mon 01-Apr-13 21:46:24

Although as the mother of a child with ASN, I get quite uppity at flippant use of labels

crashdoll Mon 01-Apr-13 21:50:20

"Even my Ant and Dec for a webchat thread went a bit horrible."

Well, what do you expect starting a thread about those irritants?! wink

Sparklingbrook Mon 01-Apr-13 22:02:33

*cupcake I think the Ant and Dec thread demonstrates my point quite well. grin

Thanks crash. sad

WorraLiberty Mon 01-Apr-13 22:05:19

OMG Sparkling I posted on that thread to say 'Yes to Ant n Dec' but didn't actually bother reading it.

Of all the threads to descend into shittiness?!?! shock

You should've started a BF/FF thread instead grin

Sparklingbrook Mon 01-Apr-13 22:07:32

I know Worra. It was my fault for saying there was 'unanimous love' for them both I suppose. I didn't think they were that controversial. shock

WorraLiberty Mon 01-Apr-13 22:12:12

Meh! They're about as controversial as a pair of wet socks (as much as I love them).

It's A & D for goodness sake...not Gary Glitter.

Some people would start an argument in an empty room if the mood took them grin

Sparklingbrook Mon 01-Apr-13 22:13:30

Has anyone ever derailed a webchat I wonder?

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep Mon 01-Apr-13 22:13:39

See, I think a lot of the shite is due to people reading the OP and not the thread.

And being a diligent little academic, I will back this up with an example.

OP - AIBU to make this child pay for breaking DS' £70 toy?
MN Consenus - YANBU, what was the toy?
OP - A Lego thingy.
MN - Er... Lego just goes back together you know.
OP - Oh shit, seriously?! What an idiot I am, thanks guys.

Next 50 posters - are you STUPID? Why don't you just rebuild the Lego?

Not necessarily from any malice - though a lot of them were quite rude - they just didn't bother to RTFT and see that OP had seen the error of her ways, and their point had already been made. Repeatedly.

cupcakemumma Mon 01-Apr-13 22:19:45

Certainly does Sparklingbrook. Well if Ant and Dec do get to do a Webchat on here then you'll have a story to share with them! smile

Sparklingbrook Mon 01-Apr-13 22:20:02

OMG there is now a thread dissing Waynes World. shock

nenevomito Mon 01-Apr-13 22:27:30

Dissing Waynes World? shock

the cunts. How dare they. That's my Yoof that is.

Stepissue Mon 01-Apr-13 22:32:47

and a thread saying another thread is vile, and on the second thread 'po' has been called, couldn't make it up grin

It's all too much for me, I'm going to watch GoT grin

cupcakemumma Mon 01-Apr-13 22:53:07

Boulevard, true, sometimes this is the case with people not reading through a full thread. Though some cases I came across yesterday were members just kicking off and being unashamedly nasty a few views in, even saying 'Yes I am being rude' after they were challenged.

ok. every community self reglates. and has moments which seem like big fights but which are really about forcing each other to take stock a bit. i certainly dont feel like any more navel gazing. but what i have takenwaway from this is that it is up to me as an individual to challenge on a thread and or report. viciousness contempt and aggression are never acceptable. feisty engagement however is the heart of mn.

Arabesque Tue 02-Apr-13 10:32:40

i do think some (me included!) posters spend way too much time on here and to amuse themselves they get stuck into threads just to 'show off' or entertain themselves or their mn mates. [quote]

^

Also, I think some posters just don't have any boundaries. Most of us have a certain level of hostility or aggression to which we can be pushed but once we reach it we refuse to be pushed any further and withdraw from the thread. But some posters have no levels beyond which they cannot be pushed and become increasingly rude, aggressive or venomous to the point where there really is no point in engaging with them. I think there really is a knack of knowing when to just think 'enough' and refuse to continue talking to someone who's just gone way beyond what is acceptable or rational behaviour.

CherylTrole Tue 02-Apr-13 20:43:19

Its the denial of any wrong doing that pisses me off. You know the "Oh I dont know what you are on about"
" Its not/ we are not like like at all"
" Well some posters are fair game"
Well bollocks to that!! I am not a liar. I have seen it all on here. Needless to say someone will say Im talking bollocks again....

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