to think you won't want to go diving 3 weeks after giving birth

(157 Posts)
ParadiseChick Sun 31-Mar-13 20:30:06

That's right, diving. On a pretty much restarted island. 5 hours drive away from your baby...

My darljng, crazy sister is 39 and expecting her first baby in July. She lives in south east Asia with her dh, both British but been out there for 7 years now. Charmed life, big income, large house, live in maid etc etc.

I've just got back from my mums who had her weekly Skype with ds is this morning. Mum has booked to go out to my sister's about 3 weeks after the baby is due to meet the baby, see my sister and help out. Today my sister asked mum if she would look after the baby for 3 nights whilst they go on a diving trip.

Sis and her dh are seasoned, experienced divers and pre pregnancy would be away on dive trips once a month. She's obviously itching to do it again as she hasn't been able to whilst pregnant.

She's planning to bf but will express.

The island they dive on is a 4 hour drive and 30 minutes on a boat. It is pretty much deserted apart from the dive club, only has power a few hours a day when the generator is put on to refill the tanks. I've been, it's stunning, but bloody cut off!

Mum is going out on her own, isn't that confident in the country, sticks to their pool and whatever restaurant the y drive her to of an evening. She'd be happier in an exclusive beach resort but hasn't had a holiday like that for years because she goes out to see dsis every year.

Mum said no. She's happy to look after the baby so they can go out for a meal or whatever but not 3 nights with a new born n a country isn't familiar with or confident in.

Sis took the higher and said something along the line of but you look after paradise kids. Yes, she's had ours overnight on a regular basis from about 12 weeks but we're 30minutes down the road on the end of a phone if need be.

All that aside - wtf? Diving? 3 weeks post birth I still felt like my insides were falling out if I walked any longer than 10 minutes and a bra hurt never mind a fucking wet suit!

AnyoneforTurps Sun 31-Mar-13 20:32:33

YANBU. Apart from anything else, I don't think you are supposed to dive for 6 weeks after birth because there is an increased risk of DVT.

Backtobedlam Sun 31-Mar-13 20:35:33

I don't think she'll be able to, she may well still be bleeding quite heavily and as pp said, I think there is still a risk of DVT. However, I'd imagine if your mum is out there, she then has the option of going and lying on the beach for a few hours kip, or staying at home and spending time with your mum. Either way I don't suppose she has to chose now, so I'd just see how she is at the time.

ParadiseChick Sun 31-Mar-13 20:37:52

The 6 week thing crossed my mind too, considering here you are told you can't even fart for 6 weeks.

HollyBerryBush Sun 31-Mar-13 20:38:08

I was out dancing 10 days after a C-section, I wouldn't suggest everyone does it, but your sister knows her own body.

NatashaBee Sun 31-Mar-13 20:39:43

I don't think it would be possible for her to express enough for 3 days away, that soon after birth. At that point she'll still be working to build up her supply just to feed the baby, not to build up a stockpile. And as someone else said, I think there would be DVT risks that soon after birth.

Annunziata Sun 31-Mar-13 20:39:50

Oh dear God, no way on earth would I have wanted to do that.

I think your sister may look back at herself and laugh in about a year!

BarredfromhavingStella Sun 31-Mar-13 20:40:59

It's her 1st so she doesn't know what to seriously expect after the birth, my guess is she'll change her mind.

I haven't done a dive since before my 1st pregnancy, so about 4 years sad My priorities have changed dramatically.

Tryharder Sun 31-Mar-13 20:41:41

I would put money on the fact that once the baby is here, the diving trip will be cancelled.

<laughs hollowly>

queenofthepirates Sun 31-Mar-13 20:42:12

Ho ho, not yet she doesn't! Your body goes mental after you have a baby and she just doesn't know that yet.

TeggieCampbeggBlegg Sun 31-Mar-13 20:42:17

Either she'll still have post natal lochia and she'll get eaten by sharks or she'll gat a DVT/PE.

And the baby might only be a few days old if it's late. And how does she expect to express enough milk for 3 days in that time when BF won't be established.

Bunbaker Sun 31-Mar-13 20:42:31

What if the baby arrives a couple of weeks after the due date?

Picturesinthefirelight Sun 31-Mar-13 20:42:42

I seriously seriously underestimated before I had my first child the amount I would bleed and how long for. Has anyone actually told her?

Holly dancing is not the same as diving, which does carry extra risks.

Found this online:

"After a vaginal delivery, women can usually resume light to moderate activity within one to three weeks. This depends of several factors: prior level of conditioning; exercise and conditioning during pregnancy; pregnancy-related complications; postpartum fatigue; and anemia, if any. Women who have exercise regimens prior to pregnancy and birth generally resume exercise programs and sports participation in earnest at three to four weeks after giving birth. Obstetricians generally recommend avoiding sexual intercourse and immersion for 21 days postpartum. This allows the cervix to close, decreasing the risk of introducing infection into the genital tract. A good rule of thumb is to wait four weeks after delivery before returning to diving.

After a cesarean delivery (often called a C-section, made via a surgical incision through the walls of the abdomen and uterus), wound-healing has to be included in the equation. Most obstetricians advise waiting at least four to six weeks after this kind of delivery before resuming full activity. Given the need to regain some measure of lost conditioning, coupled with wound healing, and the significant weight-bearing load of carrying dive gear, it's advisable to wait at least eight weeks after a C-section before returning to diving. Any moderate or severe medical complication of pregnancy - such as twins, pre-term labor, hypertension or diabetes - may further delay return to diving. Prolonged bed rest in these cases may have led to profound deconditioning and loss of aerobic capacity and muscle mass. For women who have had deliveries with medical complications, a medical screening and clearance are advisable before they return to diving."

Bunbaker Sun 31-Mar-13 20:43:45

Same here Picture. It took 6 weeks before I stopped bleeding

Pandemoniaa Sun 31-Mar-13 20:43:47

It's up to your sister to decide whether she's ready to dive - assuming she'll be allowed to 3 weeks after giving birth - so this is her business not yours. However I think your dm is perfectly reasonable to refuse to be left with a newborn for 3 days in a country that she's not familiar with while your sister disappears off to somewhere remote and inaccessible.

I rather suspect that your sister may feel a lot less inclined to take this diving trip when she's actually had the baby though!

Tryharder Sun 31-Mar-13 20:43:53

Tell your sister not to be such a prat grin

McNewPants2013 Sun 31-Mar-13 20:44:01

Is this her first baby

McNewPants2013 Sun 31-Mar-13 20:45:21

Scrap that, as it is her 1st I suspect she has no idea of the realities of her body after the baby is born.

ihearsounds Sun 31-Mar-13 20:45:25

Haha, she really thinks that she can produce enough milk for a 3 day break.

zoobaby Sun 31-Mar-13 20:45:33

Tell her she's dreaming.

No idea how she expects to express enough milk to last 3 whole days during the first 3 weeks of baby's life. Haha.

So your mum might be ok to look after baby (with a stockpile of formula on hand), but she'd need someone there to specifically look after her as well.

A bit much for your sister to expect methinks.

ParadiseChick Sun 31-Mar-13 20:45:57

Yes, first baby.

motherinferior Sun 31-Mar-13 20:46:24

Oh my dear god. How I wish I could say YABU but in truth I still felt as if I'd been kicked in the stomach by a horse and was necking the drugs and bleeding like a pig...

Oh, how she'll laugh at her folly at some point in the future grin!

Your mum is entirely entitled to say no to being left alone with a 3 week old baby too, nevermind what your DSis may or may feel up to post-birth.

FWIW, I felt great immediately after delivery and would have felt able to dive at 3 weeks, but that does not make it advisable, medically, or wrt to bonding and BFing.

ParadiseChick Sun 31-Mar-13 20:48:13

I think my mum laughed when she asked, asked thinking it was a joke.

My mum feels bad saying no especially, as my sister graciously pointed out, out as she does so much for us.

Iggly Sun 31-Mar-13 20:48:23

You dont know your own body post dc because it's an unknown!

First dc - I couldn't walk let alone bloody dance for the first 2 weeks.

Second dc I was up and about quickly.

You just dont know.

Also spending 3 nights away from a newborn? Again, no fucking way. I wouldn't take the baby if I were your mum.

zoobaby Sun 31-Mar-13 20:48:41

Tell her she's dreaming.

No idea how she expects to express enough milk to last 3 whole days during the first 3 weeks of baby's life. Haha.

So your mum might be ok to look after baby (with a stockpile of formula on hand), but she'd need someone there to specifically look after her as well.

A bit much for your sister to expect methinks.

willyoulistentome Sun 31-Mar-13 20:48:54

I agree - she will look back and think "WTF was I thinking??"

It took me 6 weeks to be able to sit down without wincing.

ParadiseChick Sun 31-Mar-13 20:49:42

I felt great after both my births. As in managing to get dressed and even do the school run great!

motherinferior Sun 31-Mar-13 20:50:17

And my boobs would have got seriously engorged. Possibly exploded.

abbyfromoz Sun 31-Mar-13 20:54:00

Your sis is in for a rude awakening.
I am sure she'll discover this all in due course for herself. She doesn't sound like she's informed at all on what it is like to have a new born... Expressing? She will be lucky to have enough supply- and is risking messing her supply up by going away for so many days. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Try to be supportive OP when bub arrives...she sounds like she'll need your wisdom and experience it seems!

HallelujahHeisRisen Sun 31-Mar-13 20:55:47

ha, ha, ha... poor deluded thing. she has no idea!

kinkyfuckery Sun 31-Mar-13 20:55:54

Could she be planning an early elective section / induction?

BikeRunSki Sun 31-Mar-13 20:59:41

I think your sister us being naive rather than unreasonable or anything else.

3 weeks -- months -- post partum I was still in maternity clothes, no way a wetsuit! And what everyone else has said about lochia, c sections, leaving newborns, leaving your mum, expressing etc.

Skygirls Sun 31-Mar-13 21:05:07

I'm a keen and experienced diver myself and totally love it BUT I don't think your sis has a clue!

I've got 3 DCs and there was no way in hell that I would have been diving 3 weeks postnatally.
I also do remember when I was pregnant with DC1, that I would say that I would be doing this and doing that after the birth, but on birth day, everything changed. Your sis is still thinking like a person with no kids.

On a more practical note, she won't be allowed to do anything until her 6 week check- certainly not diving with possible risk of embolism or thrombosis.
Also I don't think she acknowledges the maternal instinct. I was very protective of DC1 after birth and you couldn't have prised me away.

I think she is BU to even consider it TBH. She'll just have to wait.....and learn that sacrifice is part of becoming a parent. Her needs will have to take the back seat for a while.

Good luck in trying to get her to see the error of her ways. wink

KLou111 Sun 31-Mar-13 21:08:37

Sod her and the diving, why would she want to leave her baby!?!?

FannyBazaar Sun 31-Mar-13 21:10:03

Maybe your sister just needs someone to humour her, perhaps to say to her 'let's see how you feel a week or two after baby is born, best not book it right away'. I'd imagine someone telling her now how ridiculous it sounds might make her more determined to achieve it or look silly calling it all off.

PleasePudding Sun 31-Mar-13 21:10:55

Does your sister need healthcare insurance where she lives?

I had DC1 oversees and found there were loads of limitations required by insurance company post-partum. Usually I wouldn't have paid much attention but I was concerned that if anything went wrong with me or DC1 the policy wouldn't cover us and we'd be toyally screwed on healthcare costs. I wasn't allowed swimming for 6 weeks which was a total pain arse as it was hot and we had no ac. Anyway that us irrelevant but might be something your sister should check out.

Apart from that, with a three week old right now asleep on my chest - I join with the others in laughing hollowly at your sisters expectations.

Show your DSis this thread.

Then be prepared for her to ignore all advice and do whatever she feels is right after she's had her baby.

<<puts money on she will NOT be diving>>

grin

2littlemonkeysjumping Sun 31-Mar-13 21:36:10

Maybe show her this:
http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/medical/faq/Return_To_Diving_After_Giving_Birth
It suggests waiting 4 weeks after normal delivery, 8 after section. hmm
Anyway, I'd say she just won't feel the same when the baby arrives... Something chemical will happen in her brain making her not want to leave her shiny new tot wink

dayshiftdoris Sun 31-Mar-13 21:42:50

I am pretty certain that diving is contraindicated post-partum. Something to do with the circulatory changes.

I am going to go and find out because it's bugging me but I am pretty certain this came up when I was a student midwife and my mentor was an experienced diver (as it happened!!) and knew the answer... damned if I can remember it nearly 15yrs later.

TarkaTheOtter Sun 31-Mar-13 21:51:51

Even if she can get enough milk expressed in three weeks/or gives formula, she will need to pump about every two hours whilst away to protect her supply/prevent mastitis. Engorgement can be agonisingly painful, with the pressure from diving too shock.

It's a ridiculous idea but she won't thank you for telling her.

mercibucket Sun 31-Mar-13 21:57:06

lol
can we have an update in 6 weeks time, op

dayshiftdoris Sun 31-Mar-13 21:58:28

Ok 4 weeks for vaginal delivery (to ensure that the cervix is closed) and 6-8 post caesarean section (or until wound fully healed).

I was reminded when reading that we were asked by a pregnant lady (very much contra-indicated in pregnancy) but there is another consideration and this was what I remember my mentor mentioning.

Her Hb needs to be above 10 or she may struggle with her oxygen levels / decompression / etc. So if she is anaemic in pregnancy she needs a blood test postnatally before she dives to check though to honest, with delivery blood loss, feeding, etc at 3 weeks its very unlikely to be at a great level and so the longer she waits the better.

Don't forget that pregnant woman aren't treated as anaemic until 10.8 (in the UK at least but generally the 'normal levels' are lower for pregnant women) and as such she may well not be considered 'anaemic' but be pretty close to it and then event s of delivery, etc put her under 10 with no real need to re-check it.

NonnoMum Sun 31-Mar-13 22:10:46

Maybe suggest to your sister that it might be a bit tricky changing maternity pads in a wetsuit??

wink

shallweshop Sun 31-Mar-13 22:20:11

Nooooo way! Regardless of risks of diving that soon, if she is planning to bf then how the hell is she going to factor in leaving her baby for 3 nights that soon???

Think she is in for a big shock.

formicaqueen Sun 31-Mar-13 22:44:57

Shes mad! At three weeks she will only be establishing breast feeding and feeding non stop. Expressing will be a real struggle.

woowoo22 Sun 31-Mar-13 22:49:46

Diving 3 weeks after giving birth... hahaha. She is naive. Having a quick shower every day is an achievement, never mind anything else.

scarlettsmummy2 Sun 31-Mar-13 22:52:49

There's no way she could leave a breastfeeding newborn that long! At that age they cluster feed, and regardless of that, why would she want to?

IwishIwasmoreorganised Sun 31-Mar-13 22:54:22

I love the expectation of first time parents of how their lives can resume all sense of pre-dc 'normality' as soon as their dc is born.

Would your dsis read this thread if you sent her a link?

Apart from the safety aspects, the practicalities of being away from your 3 week old (at most) child for that long are beyond reasonable. The bleeding, the hormones, the engorged breasts, the possible wounds and anaemia.......

Perhaps this time next year.........

ParadiseChick Sun 31-Mar-13 22:55:45

I hadn't really thought about all the medical implications to be honest. And the more I think about it I'm concerned about her expectations and how she might cope not being able to carry on as normal.

They're both big achievers, love their breaks, freedom and have never had money worries like they live in this expatriate bubble surrounded by people with nannies and maids, kids looked after all the time.

The last time we were over one of their friends thought I was mad for not using the hotel babysitting service and keeping our dc s with us at night.

I suppose it's a different way of life where 3 days without your kids is the norm. Don't get me wrong we've had weekends away etc but it just seems so different over there!

olivertheoctopus Sun 31-Mar-13 23:38:16

It'll never happen. She'll still be bleeding and will never be able to express enough milk to feed a baby for 3 days. Bonkers.

DoJo Sun 31-Mar-13 23:47:05

I think any discussion should focus on how uncomfortable your mum feels about being left alone with a newborn rather than comments on her having no idea what it's going to be like. Nobody does until they do it, and it's unnecessary to lord over how little you think she understands about what it will be like as she will handle things her own way and learn as she goes, like we all do. Maybe planning this trip is a sign that she's having a bit of a last minute panic (like a lot of people I know do) about how much her life is going to change so she's trying to ensure that she still makes time for the things that are important to her now, which is perfectly reasonable. She may still want to go on the trip, she probably won't, but telling her she's naive and assuming that your experience means you can predict how she will feel could be counter-productive and isn't very nice.

ThreeWheelsGood Mon 01-Apr-13 00:40:43

Not sure if diving involves a wetsuit or dry suit? Explain to her that tampons are not recommended for lochia. She will still be bleeding at 3 weeks post partum, and maternity pads in a wetsuit, ew. Does she know she'll be 3 weeks exactly? What if she's overdue? She needs someone to manage her expectations, she won't have BF established by then, especially not enough to have expressed. Why would she even want to be away from her baby for that long so soon after birth?

noblegiraffe Mon 01-Apr-13 07:41:10

If she's that big into her freedom, nannies, leaving the kids etc then she probably won't end up bfing in the long term anyway, but a three day break at three weeks would kill it. Three weeks is also a growth spurt so no way would she be able to express enough beforehand.

That aside, it won't happen because your mum won't babysit, which is perfectly reasonable as newborns are intense. I wouldn't have wanted to be alone for 3 days and nights with my own 3 week old, let alone someone else's in a foreign country.

maddening Mon 01-Apr-13 07:53:24

Your dsis will be so glad your mum said no when the time comes!

KLou111 Mon 01-Apr-13 07:58:03

If she's that much into being free, WTH is she having a child? Poor kid.

Longdistance Mon 01-Apr-13 08:06:17

I think your ds is being really really unrealistic, and quite frankly bonkers if she thinks she'll just be able to leave baby. She's gonna be in or a massive shock. If she ends up with an emcs, she certainly won't be able to go.

Don't say anything, just smile and nob and be smug to yourself, when she can't go

Longdistance Mon 01-Apr-13 08:07:42

Nob???? Erm, nod.

bless her! grin

i used to be a diving instructor and there is no way i would have taken someone diving 3 weeks after birth. the womb may not yet have retracted fully and i don't know what effect big pressure changes would have on that. she won't have had a full sign off from a doctor at that point and has it occurred to her she might have stitches? some people don't even take a bath for weeks after a vaginal birth.

last time i had cervical treatment i seem to recall being told to only shower not immerse myself in a bath - don't recall advice after birth - i had an episiotomy and the most i wanted to do water wise was sit in a shallow bath with lots of salt and lavender oil in it to avoid infection and promote healing - 30m of seawater whilst squished in a wetsuit would not have been high on my to do list grin

obviously everything else that has been said too - the naivety that you'll be able to express enough milk for 3 days within a couple of weeks of birth is breath taking bless her - she may be in for quite a shock! and can you imagine how much milk you'd be leaking with the pressure changes lol - i have visions of doing a safety stop with milk spurting out of wetsuit as the breasts and ducts re-expand.

no - it isn't going to happen.

EauRouge Mon 01-Apr-13 08:12:32

Imagine squishing engorged norks into a wet suit. Ouch.

Am grin at the thought of lochia attracting sharks.

Planning to go diving 3 weeks after giving birth is utterly bonkers but you don't know things like that the first time, do you? I'm sure she'll change her mind.

SilverSky Mon 01-Apr-13 08:23:02

Ahhhh the ignorance is bliss state of
mind.

Its U to hold your mum to emotional ransom over helping you and your family out when its their choice to move overseas. Surely if they lived closer to your mum, she would be helping out whenever she was able.

If it were her second baby she would know her own body etc, but with this being her 1st, i cant see this diving trip becoming reality grin
Her baby could be overdue, if baby is overdue then then the scheduled trip wont go ahead anyway and even if not, she will probably still be bleeding and you cannot express that early on anyway.

Fwiw i would let her have her dream, as quite simply, it will never go past what's in her head.
New pregnant mums to be, don't realise quite how much their life and bodies will change as they have never been through it before themselves to know what a changing experience motherhood is.

She will have it in her head that she will have baby on set date, be back in her pre pregnant clothes, be back to normal activities within a week etc, etc, but babies & bodies don't allow for such quick change. I felt this was all how it would be with pfb 10yrs +years ago, well many years later and 4 dc down the line i know it isn't all that easy. But i enjoyed living in my mystical 1st pregnancy bubble, so don't burst it, she will find out in her own time.... Just be supportive smile

Finallygotaroundtoit Mon 01-Apr-13 08:37:20

Everyone is assuming dsis is the one who is being unrealistic. What about her DH?

I knew someone who was pressured into a 'second honeymoon' abroad weeks after giving birth.

Her mum was left with baby and she sat on the beach with sore boobs just to reassure her DH that he still 'came first' sad

Tailtwister Mon 01-Apr-13 08:44:28

As it's her first baby I think she's being pretty optimistic. I felt I'd been run over by a herd of elephants for weeks after the first one, but was out and about within hours of the second. Bleeding wise, I think it was a good 3 or 4 weeks both times before it stopped. Apart from that, you're really not up for leaving your baby that early. I remember being anxious about going to get my hair cut at 3 months the first time, just in case DS1 needed a feed. The hairdressers was just up the road!

LittleChickpea Mon 01-Apr-13 08:45:26

I dive so I can understand why she would been itching to get back in the water post pregnancy.  Whether she can is a different story. But I believes it's alright as long as the Doc says you can.  Depending on health and recovery (utrus) you can go back anywhere between 4 and six weeks as long as you have no blood loss related anaemia. As Swallow says not sure the dive masters would be too happy that soon after though.

I agree your sister is been unfair on your Mother though and good on your mum for saying no.  

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Mon 01-Apr-13 09:01:42

A 12 week old for one overnight is very different to a 3 week old for 3 nights. A 12 week old might be sleeping through if lucky, or more likely only up once or twice a night. A 3 week old may be up 5 or 6 times. Also, if it's one overnight, your mum can hand you the baby back the next day and go for a nap to recover. Your mum will presumably be jet lagged. She will not have the language skills and local knowledge to get to a doctor if anything is wrong with baby (or with her).

There you go, a bunch of reasons why this is a very different situation and why your mum isn't treating you and DSis differently.

QuickLookBusy Mon 01-Apr-13 09:10:16

I'm glad your mum has put her foot down and said no. She sounds very sensible!

What did your sis say to your mum, when she said no.

ChocsandChipsandSealingWax Mon 01-Apr-13 09:27:01

There's no way I'd want to look after my own DDs newborn at three weeks old for three nights in England with her just down the road, let alone in a foreign country with a medical system I wasn't familiar with.

Your mum is not BU, but in any case your sister is crazy and it won't happen, for all the reasons above. Agree with the poster who said there's no need to tell your sister why she won't want to do it/be able to do it - just smile and nod on that bit, and focus on why it's not fair to your mum.

You voicing any concerns with your sister may go down better if you focus on how this is too much to ask of your mum rather than focussing on the folly of divine IYSWIM?

I have big sympathy with your DSis maybe having last minute cold feet wrt to the huge and irrevertable lifestyle change she is about to embark on. Maybe she is trying to prove to herself and her DH that life can go on as before??

I so remember the dinner out DH and I went for the night before my induction with DS1 (I was T+15 and as big as an ocean liner grin) - it was lovely and I was a bit sad that 'the two of us' was coming to an end blush. Before you judge me too harshly, I had DS1 at the age of 37, after 4 MCs and 5 years of trying, so it really was just a passing twinge...
Although I was not wrong, it was several years before DH and I went out alone again grin.

MummytoKatie Mon 01-Apr-13 10:03:38

I was planning to walk home from hospital after having dd. (Not completely ridiculous - we only live a mile away and I was still walking 4 miles a day up until the day I went into labour - and we walked home after dh had an operation on his hand as he refused to wait 5 minutes for the plentiful supply of buses and taxis.) It just seemed a complete waste of time for dh to have to go and get the car when the traffic is so bad in our city.

Plan came to a crashing halt after I had a PPH and could barely walk to the loo without fainting. I'll know better this time!

motherinferior Mon 01-Apr-13 11:32:34

Do you know, that was the bit I felt totally furious with Kitzinger et all about - the blithe declarations that I'd feel just fine afterwards and the six week check up was an artificial construct blah blah blah. I had no illusions about birth but I clung to this belief that after the hell of pregnancy I would start feeling like me again pronto.

HA.

And in fact six weeks later I did in fact go for a swim and have my eyelashes dyed and started feeling like me again. Exactly, to the daygrin

weegiemum Mon 01-Apr-13 11:34:57

I'm a PADI diver. No reputable place will take you before 6 weeks pp.

That's the thing though: expectations, any expectations.

Like I said, after DS1 I felt fine and could've walked home (I didn't). With DS2 I had an emCS and emphatically could NOT have.

The Op's sister will learn to go with the flow - you wait when the baby behaves in ways that suggest it has not ready any of the books grin.

specialsubject Mon 01-Apr-13 11:39:34

she needs to learn the difference between what she wants and what she can have. Diving puts specialised pressures on the body and the risk is not acceptable that close to birth.

the practicalities and any emotional issues are irrelevant. She cannot dive 3 weeks after birth. End of.

if she is really that experienced a diver she would have more sense.

CecilyP Mon 01-Apr-13 12:03:45

If your Dsis is 39, I assume your mum is not that all that young any more, so it is totally unreasonable for her to expect her to look after a new born for what will work out as 4 days and 3 nights. My friend (age 62) had her 4 month old FF DGD for one night and decided she was now too old to look after a baby.

I think most of us will have had slightly unrealistic expectations of what we would be able to do with a new baby, but this takes it to a whole new level. Even if she is feeling totally well after the birth, does she know that she is likely to be bleeding and will have to use towels. She obviously has no idea how difficult it is to express. And as breast milk only keeps for about 5 days in the fridge, she will have to express the same again as she is feeding the baby in the 5 days leading up to the trip. That is an awful lot of bottles, all needing to be carefully numbered so that the your mum feeds in the correct order. Then how is she going to cope with the milk she will be producing when she is on the trip and even actually doing the dives?

Others have said that no diving school will consider taking a new mum that early. The only way round it that I could see would be delaying the trip a little bit and taking your mum with them, so she could look after the baby while your Dsis is actually diving but for your Dsis would look after the baby the rest of the time.

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS Mon 01-Apr-13 12:31:36

Yanbu.

ivanapoo Mon 01-Apr-13 13:12:15

The diving insanity aside, she really needs to get over the idea that it's a competition between your children and hers.

My sister lived with my mum for the first 6 months after having her PFB and they look after her DC at least once a week.

My parents have met my 4 month old three times because I don't live nearby. I'm slightly put out that they chose to live so far away but I don't have the right to demand the same treatment.

My other sister doesn't even have kids and lives abroad - how do we even that score?!

lovetomoan Mon 01-Apr-13 16:24:53

I was lifting weights just an hour after my c section, and cooking, doing the laundry in the hospital,etc. yes, even before the epidural wore off and in fact, when my baby was half in half out grin just kidding

If I was you, I would just sit and wait...

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Mon 01-Apr-13 16:40:07

Cecily, breast milk can be frozen. But I agree with your points about the amount in such a short time.

quoteunquote Mon 01-Apr-13 16:47:00

I hope she does bond with the baby, and everything goes OK,

maybe she thinks it like getting a puppy, and you can just leave it with whoever,

I wouldn't say too much or you'll back her into a corner, and she will give up the idea of bf, in order to accommodate the get away,

most insurance companies are very careful when writing policies, and cut the risk of payout to a minimum, so she will struggle to find a policies that covers her,

Just remind them to update their wills when the baby is born, then if they do get themselves into bother, then the baby won't get messed about.

babybythesea Mon 01-Apr-13 17:30:55

I had a 'normal' birth but tore - I have a feeling I was only just past the stage where I could wee without having to get into the bath and empty buckets of water over myself while doing so at 3 weeks. I went up to my place of work when dd was 2 weeks - I managed to walk for about half an hour and then was hobbling like a 90 year old as things were starting to pull and cause pain.
The rest of me felt fine but holy crap, did those stitches hurt, and for much longer than I thought they would!
Had you suggested I then stuffed them into a wetsuit which is presumably rather tight, I'd have socked you in the nose.

The only thing with the smile and nod plan is that if she spends money booking things then she's going to not want to waste that money, I would think. So she does need to be disillusioned, but I do agree that concentrating on it not being fair to your mum rather than why she might not feel like it is better. That way, even if she is one of those lucky sods who can go back to marathon running three hours after delivery, she won't feel so resentful that she didn't go, because it wasn't about how she felt to start with, it was about your mum and that won't have changed.
If she feels like the back end of a train crash of course, then 'I told you so' seems appropriate if unfair!

hellsbells76 Mon 01-Apr-13 17:43:46

Ah bless her. She'll learn...

Anyone else old enough to remember the mnetter who was going to leave her baby in scbu so she could go on a waterskiing holiday? That thread went well grin

quoteunquote Mon 01-Apr-13 17:48:15

oh do please let us know if she does attempt it?

I suspect she asked your mum, so she could blame her not being able to take part on your mum, unless she always thought you mum to be daft, she would of expected a refusal to take part in such a scheme.

I felt fine to get up and do stuff pp both times but the more I did the more I bled and the less milk I produced. Your sister has no way of telling if this would be her.

Plus at 3 weeks post EDD she might well only be 1 week pp. It is really common with firsts.

And yeah, really not fair to your mum who is older and probably jet lagged. Even if I wasn't I wouldn't want to look after a newborn by myself for 72 hours. That is damn hard work.

Oh and yeah, she would be exceptional if she could express that much milk in one-three weeks pp to feed a newborn (plus a decent safety margin for the stuff that gets thrown away undrunk) for 72 hours. Also she is going to have to hand express for three days because she won't be able to run a hospital grade pump with no electricity...? Man her hand will be sore and boy will that cut into diving time.

WilsonFrickett Mon 01-Apr-13 17:50:14

I really hope she is planning this through sheer unadulterated daftness and not because her DP is pushing her... it wouldn't be unheard of for a DP to want some big declaration that they 'still came first'. Can you talk to her OP?

middleagedspread Mon 01-Apr-13 17:55:33

If she's anything like me she won't want to dive when baby is so tiny. Emotionally the thought of all the attached risks put her off.

No way will she want to go.
You can all have a laugh about this request in a few months.

NumericalMum Mon 01-Apr-13 18:06:14

I really feel for your DSis because she has no idea what is about to hit her sad

MiaowTheCat Mon 01-Apr-13 18:17:19

I'm a day short of 2 weeks after DD2 - physically I'd be up to it (well if I was ever physically up to it PRE-child... which I ain't) but apparently I'm barking mad and a freak of nature that I'm out and about as normal and in my pre-pregnancy clothes already...

glossyflower Mon 01-Apr-13 18:25:24

Lol. I wondered if it was a joke too!
YANBU!
As you say it's first baby, she's not going to know until after the baby's born how she's going to feel physically.
Leaving her newborn for 3 days with DM who is in an unfamiliar country whilst she goes on a little jolly jaunt is astounding to me!
I bet once the baby arrives she's not going to want to leave to go diving anyway.
Your mum shouldn't feel bad about saying no but she should try and point out to DS that its a stupid idea!

specialsubject Mon 01-Apr-13 18:26:04

yes, but presumably those normal clothes are not a wetsuit! (in which, BTW, you cannot wear a sanitary pad for obvious reasons)

glossyflower Mon 01-Apr-13 18:28:03

"Anyone else old enough to remember the mnetter who was going to leave her baby in scbu so she could go on a waterskiing holiday? That thread went well"
...
LMAO seriously?!

KLou111 Mon 01-Apr-13 18:36:34

Omg that's awful glossy!!

VivaLeBeaver Mon 01-Apr-13 18:39:54

I went paragliding six weeks after a section.

However I can understand your mum not wanting to look after the baby in a foreign country when your sister will be so far away. Can your sister not do some diving during the day nearer to where the baby is? Or can your mum and baby not go to the island?

VivaLeBeaver Mon 01-Apr-13 18:40:25

I remember the scbu, waterskiing in the Carribean thread.

JollyPurpleGiant Mon 01-Apr-13 18:49:52

It's scary how little clue some people have about what childbirth does to you. Even a straightforward vaginal birth.

I hope your sister comes back to reality gently, op, and that medical professionals give her appropriate advice. And I really really hope your DM sticks to her decision.

Want2bSupermum Mon 01-Apr-13 18:52:46

Here goes... As someone who is married to a lovely DH who earns a fair bit I think your DSis might be trying to please her DH. Her DH might not be saying or doing anything to warrant this. I was very happy for us not to HK and if we had gone I would never have 'help'. I went to school with quite a few expats and a large number had divorced parents as their father had run off with the maid. Some of these maids are not to be trusted and will pounce when they spot a moment of weakness. A DH with a good income and no sex for 6-8wks/ not being #1 anymore is a prime target.

I just had #2 and I am well aware of the need for routines to be reset and for DH to be 'taken care of'. There are plenty of women out there who would snap up DH in a heartbeat and while he isn't looking or interested I know they offer themselves to him.

Your sister is probably quite scared. FWIW we don't have live-ins and I hire women that are not DH's type (late 40's is the youngest age I will consider).

Remotecontrolduck Mon 01-Apr-13 18:54:33

Oh dear, she is very naive isn't she. We all have ideas before having kids about how we will do things that simply aren't practical, but she sounds very deluded.

Maybe you do need to let her know gently that it just isn't going to be practical and give reasons, as she's in for an awful shock after the birth and it may be quite hard for her to accept that she doesn't have the freedom she used to.

On the other hand, you could just humor her and she will realise the first time she tries to stand up after giving birth that there isn't a cat in hells chance of getting into a wetsuit, and she wouldn't want to leave the baby anyway grin

ParadiseChick Mon 01-Apr-13 18:59:33

I don't think mum will be changing her mind and it's not like her to say no to something, she is 59 and physically well but the 15 hours out to my sisters knocks her for 6. She's already been out once this year, wasn't planning on another trip but d sis had waited until mum got out there in Feb to tell her she was pregnant.

I've got a feelin that was done on purpose. If she'd told mum earlier she would have put off the Feb visit until after the baby was here. The flights are expensive, she hasn't got endless holidays at work and that's why she usually goes in Feb as she can take the best part of 4 weeks off and no one minds. She needs time to recover from the flights. Now she's squeezing in ten days when the baby is born.

Miaow,

1) just because you feel fine and recovered doesn't mean that medically it is a good idea.

2) mothers tend to bounce back quicker after baby#2

3) if you are a first time mum you have no idea whether you are going to recover quickly or not.

Want2bSupermum Mon 01-Apr-13 19:04:37

So your mum is flying 15hrs each way for a 10 day trip, 5 of which will be spent looking after her grandchild who will be screaming hungry the whole time?

PeneloPeePitstop Mon 01-Apr-13 19:05:26

Omg want2b how very sad that you have to live in that situation.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Mon 01-Apr-13 19:06:03

Your mum is there for ten days, flying 15 hours each way and your sister is disappearing off for four of them [shocked]

SIBU - regardless of the baby factor.

Want2bSupermum Mon 01-Apr-13 19:10:15

Miaow I could say I was in my prepregnancy clothes after DS (my 2nd) after 2wks. That is only because I didn't lose all my weight from my first! Yes you are a freak... one that I am very jealous of! envy

I am on the Liz Hurley post partum diet of eating not a lot - just fruit, veg and proper portions of meat. I am 25lbs off my wedding day weight and I only got married 4.5 years ago.

ParadiseChick Mon 01-Apr-13 19:13:34

You know the more I think about it the more I think he might be the driving force.

He's an alright guy but a bit of a hooray henry wannabe. Yes he earns good money, but she earns more. Over here he'd be earning below average wages but over there with the gift of the gab and no regulation he thinks he's the bees knees. He mixes with big wigs, just has this attitude about him I don't like.

I can see him grudgingly agreeing to no dive trips whilst the baby is brewing but seizing the opportunity of mums visit.

motherinferior Mon 01-Apr-13 19:13:57

Want2be, please tell me you are joking. Please.

MiaowTheCat Mon 01-Apr-13 19:17:13

Aaaah someone without the skill to read the entire post... gotta love 'em.

Want2be, I have witness the situation you are describing when this happened to a friend.

Another friend insisted they came home to the UK from Malaysia before she agreed to try for DCs... she knew why hmm.

motherinferior Mon 01-Apr-13 19:24:42

Six weeks of no sex is a moment of weakness????

I don't know if you are referring to me, I'm assuming you are as I addressed you directly.

If you are, yes I read the whole post. I assure you I have the skill to do so and comprehend it regardless of your insult.

I stick to my post. You have no way of knowing if diving could cause a DVT if you did it tomorrow, even if you did one yesterday, even if you feel you could jump to the moon, even if you found some doctor to clear you and a dive shop to take you.

Yeah you might be a freak of nature, still a big risk.

Oh and I left the hospital with DC#1 in my prepg clothes. Not a huge feat seeing as 1) I was overweight and 2) was really sick during my pg and lost a bunch of weight in the first and second trimester.

Want2bSupermum Mon 01-Apr-13 19:24:57

PPP It isn't the situation that I live in per se. My eyes are open and I know what I am dealing with. Some on here have called me controlling. That might be but it is for a darn good reason. I trust DH, I just don't trust these other women. They can be highly manipulative. I don't want my DC's to grow up without their father in the home.

Also, the bad comes with the good, I just have a different set of problems. I thank my lucky stars that we are not trying to find a way to feed ourselves and put a roof over our heads.

Pandemoniaa Mon 01-Apr-13 19:26:06

I'm a day short of 2 weeks after DD2 - physically I'd be up to it (well if I was ever physically up to it PRE-child... which I ain't) but apparently I'm barking mad and a freak of nature that I'm out and about as normal and in my pre-pregnancy clothes already...

So was I since I ate Christmas Dinner in my normal jeans 13 days after having ds2 and life had already returned to what passed as normality. Thank fuck nobody expected me to go diving as well though wink

I'd also agree with others who say that you've got no idea what you'll feel like after having a baby though. Especially your first baby.

SaggyOldClothCatPuss Mon 01-Apr-13 19:26:11

IIWY I would just smile and nod.
Your Mum knows whats what, she isnt going to do it, so just sit back and enjoy the fact that your poor sister is going to be in for a rude awakening.

TheAccidentalEgghibitionist Mon 01-Apr-13 19:28:01

Pleease someone put up a link to the thread where the mum wanted to leave her baby in SCBU to go on holiday??

motherinferior Mon 01-Apr-13 19:28:18

You do trust your DH but you think he might somehow be taken advantage of by a woman paid to work in his house because he was so vulnerable on account of not having had penetrative sex for a month?

Want2bSupermum Mon 01-Apr-13 19:37:13

motherinferior I am not bf and my calorie intake is 1350-1450 a day.

The weight thing is me and not DH. I really don't like being wibbly wobbly and I am itching to go for a run. I didn't run for my entire pregnancy and I had a CS. I can't wait to wear my old clothes again and I am dreading another summer being this big. For me, I handle the heat a lot better when I weigh less.

guess which posts have made me feel positively queasy? hmm

motherinferior Mon 01-Apr-13 19:42:57

I meant the other stuff not the weight loss!

Smart people do not deliberately put themselves in the path of disaster despite how much they are convinced they won't get hurt.

I think Want2be is smart.

EuroShaggleton Mon 01-Apr-13 19:55:21

I'm a diver and this plan is madness. She will be at a risk of infection from any wounds and a cervix that hasn't yet fully closed, not to mention all the other health risks. Diving is physically HARD - you are wearing a belt with several kilos of lead around your abdomen to weigh you down, the tanks weigh a ton, currents can require some hardcore swimming if you don't want to be pushed into rough coral or worse. And your poor mum! The whole thing is absolutely crazy!

mombie Mon 01-Apr-13 19:59:45

I think your sister could do withabit of support and guidance from you or your mum. she needs reassureing that your mum's refusal is based on her experiance with babies and not because of any favouritism towards you. She needs to know that you have her best interests and health at heart. She may find it difficult once the baby is here, esp if she has unrealistic expectations and pressure from dh. With no proper support system, she needs to know she has you guys.

I'm a diver too and while I've not had a baby and know nothing about going back to diving after pregnancy/childbirth I do know what it's like going back after illness (I know it's not the same, I'm thinking more of the extended break/change in body condition).

I haven't been diving in several months due to severe migraines and I'm really nervous about going back due to the physical and mental demands. As Euro says above there are so many physical challenges that your Sis will have to consider that I won't have. If I was your mum I'd smile, nod and agree to the plan... chances are diving will be the last thing on your sister's mind, no matter what her husband wants to do.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Mon 01-Apr-13 20:04:38

Is she on any diving talkboards where she could ask about this?

foreverondiet Mon 01-Apr-13 20:10:01

confusedshockgrin
1. Totally impossible to express three days worth of milk..
2. If she doesn't pump 6-8 times a day for 45 mins at a time her milk will dwindle - plus she might be uncomfortable during a dive and end up with mastitis
3. Probably will still be bleeding and if cs or stitches may still have wound

Not your business but just not possible unless totally straightforward birth with no tearing or significant bruising also acceptance of bottle feeding.

AnneElliott Mon 01-Apr-13 20:11:18

I remember the thread about the waterskiing after birth and leaving thd baby. That wasn't the posters first baby though was it? And the dad was staying behind with the nanny IIRC? I think the OP left or name changed after that thread!

foreverondiet Mon 01-Apr-13 20:15:29

Re: lochia - mine had stopped by 2 weeks each time and I took older dc swimming when ds2 was 2 weeks old - but I had no bruising or tearing and midwife thought it ok

glossyflower Mon 01-Apr-13 20:20:15
LynetteScavo Mon 01-Apr-13 20:30:26

She's planning to bf but will express.

Enough milk to feed a baby for 3 days after 3 weeks? Good luck with that! grin

I thought the water skiing thread was a wind-up!? The poster was trying to entertain herself while her baby was in SCBU. hmm

LynetteScavo Mon 01-Apr-13 20:34:22

That thread was from 6 years ago, and I remember it. blush

Totally different situation with the scbu baby iirc, the father was staying with the baby and she was bringing her older children on a trip paid for by grandparents that they were really excited about wasn't she?

Op.... I'd suggest emailing your sister the diving link upthread, and if you can find an article on post partum maternal health which describes lochia in vivid detail I'd send that too! She's deluded, worryingly so!

Aliglobetrek Mon 01-Apr-13 20:50:21

I was similar to your Dsis in that I wanted to enter a triathlon less than a month after my due date!! I assumed I'd be back out running within a week lol!!
My friend who has 2 DC thankfully talked me out of parting with the cash for the entry fee.
It's now 6 months after the birth and the most I've run is a mile. Also after an episiotomy the thought of riding a racing bike with a very thin saddle still makes me wince. Oh how misguided I was lol!!!
She'll probably laugh about it one day as I'm doing now.

SaggyOldClothCatPuss Mon 01-Apr-13 20:53:54

Christ! Just read that thread! shock

FannyBazaar Mon 01-Apr-13 21:31:44

I have just remembered that when I was a pregnant I asked MW whether flying to the other side of the world 3 weeks after the EDD would be permissible blush. It must have been sometime around the beginning of 2nd trimester that I asked, I really didn't have a clue about anything to do with babies and openly admitted this.

Come to think of it, MW didn't do anything to suggest it was completely ridiculous perhaps just mentioned that the logistics of arranging baby ticket and passport in time could be tricky or something like that. I held on to the idea for quite a while and was probably saved by cash flow problems more than anything else!

Just wonder if someone was posting on MN about me then? Apologies, genuine naivety. I was however, miraculously able to travel to the airport in my pre-pregnancy jeans to pick up my mother 3 weeks after the birth and that was enough.

edwinbear Mon 01-Apr-13 21:31:46

I'm a keen diver and with all due respect, she is barking. If I had booked a dive trip 3 weeks after my EDD I would still have been in hospital as DS was 2 weeks late and I had a difficult birth which meant 5 days in hospital after a 2 day labour. She may be recovering from a c section. She is likely to still be bleeding and won't be able to use tampons. If she ends up very overdue, her milk may not even have come in yet so she won't be able to express at all. Diving is physically demanding, getting back in the boat with a tank on your back can be hard work, and having suffered a prolapse 6 weeks post delivery myself, throwing tanks about will do her recovering pelvic floor any favours at all. She risks infection if her cervix has not fully closed. What will she do on a remote island if she does experience any medical emergencies? That's just her, what about bonding with her baby and your mum being left with a newborn? I think as a family you will all laugh about this in years to come.

ParadiseChick Mon 01-Apr-13 23:22:49

I hope so Edwin!

Want2bSupermum Tue 02-Apr-13 01:08:28

Op - FWIW I would handle this by telling DH that I would ask the dr and then tell him that the good lady said no. I did that when DH asked if I cld fly at 35wks, returning when I was 36wks. I would therefore suggest to your sister that she clears this diving with her dr.

If you suspect she is worried about her DH it might be an idea for a male in the family to have a chat, ideally someone who has had children so has half a clue. Your father, brother if you have one or your DH would all be good options.

MusicalEndorphins Tue 02-Apr-13 05:26:28

She may very well be ok for a lot of other activities, but not deep sea diving, or even swimming. Hopefully she will mention her plans to her doctor and be told of the risks.
Perhaps your sister should consider going on a vacation with your mother somewhere that your mother would enjoy instead of your mother going there? Not this time of course, but maybe Feb. 2015. They can visit together but your mother can actually enjoy her surroundings.

RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief Tue 02-Apr-13 05:48:11

Here goes... As someone who is married to a lovely DH who earns a fair bit I think your DSis might be trying to please her DH. Her DH might not be saying or doing anything to warrant this. I was very happy for us not to HK and if we had gone I would never have 'help'. I went to school with quite a few expats and a large number had divorced parents as their father had run off with the maid. Some of these maids are not to be trusted and will pounce when they spot a moment of weakness. A DH with a good income and no sex for 6-8wks/ not being #1 anymore is a prime target.

OMG Supermum- you've talked some bollocks on here in the past but this takes the biscuit. I actually greatly pity you in your paranoid little life. If your Dh would shag someone else because you werent back into your jeans in 6 weeks then he's NOT a lovely man. He's a twat. And please dont come to HK. we really dont need people like you here.

Want2bSupermum Tue 02-Apr-13 06:35:01

mother For my DH it is more that he doesn't like not being #1 anymore. He jokes about it but I know his nose was out of joint for the first month or so. During my pregnancy DH never really knew what was coming. For other men, the lack of sex is an issue. It was a year of no sex for friends of ours and he walked on her when their DD was 4 months old. He had slept with the nanny at that point but ran off with the women who sat opposite to him on the train. Needless to say we don't consider him a friend anymore.

richman I am speaking from what I have seen happen to those around me. I wouldn't say this in RL to anyone but truth be told it is what a lot of wives think at various times. You are alone, in a foreign country and giving birth so very vunerable. Fear does funny things to people and to me the desire of wanting to go diving so soon after birth, to such a remote location, sounds like the actions of someone in fear. It might be fear of losing their freedom but it could be fear of something else. That is why I started my post with 'here goes'. It isn't what anyone wants for their sister. I put it out there because it could be something that is going through the mind of the OP's sister.

Weissbier Tue 02-Apr-13 07:31:47

YSBU for comparing what your mum does for you with what she does for her, because she lives at the other end of the world. I live abroad and I don't expect my parents to put themselves out at all because of that - my choice to go and live there.

If I were your mum I'd be tempted to just agree on the grounds that there is no way it will actually happen, but that could cause problems with your sister's DH if he's already booked the trip - only three weeks after the birth he may still not get it. I would also involve the doctor - or show them this thread...

I think Dsis is mad, and your Mum is very sensible to say no.

However, I express for my DS2, am 3 weeks postpartum, express 3/4 times a day for 12 minutes and have a freezer crammed full of the excess already. I'm lucky, but I just wanted to say its not impossible if you, for some reason, have a good supply.

I also am back in pre-pregnancy clothes, feel fit and well and may have been on a trampoline. I still think she's nuts to consider diving. I know how lucky I have bed this time and its rare!

motherinferior Tue 02-Apr-13 09:39:10

I don't think I could face living with someone who wanted to come first in my attention all the time, really. Not someone over the age of 10.

depends if you are a person in their own right who believes they can survive as such or if you see your role in life and means of survival as landing and keeping a high earning man motherinferior.

sadly the latter is not uncommon.

diddl Tue 02-Apr-13 09:59:54

I was fortunate enough to have two easy births-no stitches or tearing.

But the overwhelming tiredness & the relentless bfeeding would have made it a no for me tbh.

RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief Tue 02-Apr-13 12:45:13

You are alone, in a foreign country and giving birth so very vulnerable

sorry supermum but I think you're projecting your own securities. I don't agree that expat mums feel more insecure than non-expat mums. It's not like we've been brought to the colonies on the slow boat to marry some plantation owner with no way back except a coffin.

Reading your comments I feel like the lightening's hit the old clock tower and I've been instantly transported back to the Raj- you're implying that women are having to keep their man happy or they will leave, so you must squeeze yourself back into your size 8's and give him a blowy or he'll shag the nanny and it will be YOUR fault for failing to be a nice little wifey. Happily most of the expat women I know have more self-esteem than that. They know that they're holding a good hand.

I suspect the OP's sister is just a bit naive and doesnt realise what a baby will entail (who does?) She's also having her first baby quite late, so it will be a big adjustment from DINKY to vomit covered mum. However, I also think the OP's impression of life in SE Asia with help isn't quite accurate. Yes, people leave older children with the nanny/ helper and go away for the weekend or for work, and people are very relaxed about hotel babysitters etc, but eyebrows would definitely be raised at leaving a 3 week old for 3 days, I can assure you.

ParadiseChick Tue 02-Apr-13 14:04:26

I'm just going on what I know of my sisters group of friends and the times I've been over. Help is cheap, so used a lot.

RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief Tue 02-Apr-13 14:12:48

yes i know- same in HK, but there are limits and 3 wk old baby would be outside it. in fact i reckon the reason ebf rates are so high is that women can sit on the sofa for a month and the house doesnt turn into a shit pit

TheAccidentalEgghibitionist Tue 02-Apr-13 18:04:29

I'm an ex-pat and have been on and off for many years.
I certainly have not had the same experience as supermum If I thought for one second that my DH might run off with the help (not that I have any) for any reason, I would not be married to him. Nor do I know anyone who has had this experience. Very odd indeed.

ThreeTomatoes Tue 02-Apr-13 19:25:47

oh are they in for a shock!

she is majorly taking the piss, your poor mum shock

But anyway, i think she'll find she'll be foregoing the diving trip in the end anyway... Perhaps this is actually a non-issue, it'll solve itself come the time.

ThreeTomatoes Tue 02-Apr-13 19:27:07

I would be terrified to look after someone's new born baby for three days, alone, in another country with no help to hand. f'kn hell i'm not surprised your mum's putting her foot down.

Want2bSupermum Fri 05-Apr-13 12:02:42

Very happy to hear that others have not had their DH run off with the help. I have seen it happen....

As for not being vunerable, words fail me. It is how a lot of women feel who are giving birth in a foregin country where often they either don't speak, or don't have a strong command of the local language. It isn't just the giving birth part, it is the aftermath of figuring out your new family. It is a lot easier when you have family close by.

I put out there things that might be going through the OP sisters head. It doesn't mean that they are happening. While it is probable that the OP's sister is naieve with regards to post baby life, it is possible that there is something else going on. It wouldn't be right to not put it out there as the OP is obviously, and IMO quite rightly, concerned for her sister.

ParadiseChick Fri 05-Apr-13 18:54:09

Want2 I found your posts interesting. My dsis went out there with work, still works and met her dh out there who is also an expat. I think on that basis they are more on an even n keel although I know how much I benefited from my family and I think it's dawning on her that she won't have that network of support.

Want2bSupermum Sat 06-Apr-13 02:01:26

Paradise That is what happened with DH and I. We were both moved out here for work and met in Hoboken, NJ through a mutual friend. To others we look like we are on an even keel but that is only because I hold my own.

That network of support is what I really miss. DH left on Weds for 10 days to Europe and will be home for 6 hrs before he flies off to Dallas for another 3 days. DD has her tubes going in on Tuesday. Thank goodness my PIL are coming over to help me with DD. DS will be 6 weeks on Monday and has horrible reflux. I know my PIL will be watching him as closely as I do and I especially trust my MIL not to lose her temper with him after 5+ hours of nonstop screaming. I couldn't leave him with a non family member. Our friends all have young children so fitting him in is really quite hard and given the way he screams I just don't feel comfortable leaving him with hired help.

RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief Sun 07-Apr-13 01:41:57

where often they either don't speak, or don't have a strong command of the local language.

She lives in Sing. They speak English. They're wealthy. She can afford an army of help. You can get western or local nannies in Sing plus mat nurses etc etc. It'll be fine.

SybilRamkin Sun 07-Apr-13 12:45:45

RichMan, I think you're being unnecessarily rude. Want2 has explained what she meant.

Want2bSupermum Mon 08-Apr-13 18:13:38

Richman At this point I don't think you are adding value but simply attacking for the sake of it. Clearly you had a different experience and I am very happy for you that your transition to parenthood was problem free.

My only hope is that the OP's sister does not risk her health by diving so soon after the birth of her child.

and that your husband doesn't run away with your maid wink

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