Am I a victim of abuse or actually was a just a slut?

(56 Posts)
slutorvictim Sun 31-Mar-13 20:23:34

Have NC'd am a regular longterm member.

I have self esteem issues and i want to investigate why.

When i was about 12 i developed a crush on someone much older, and married. He sort of encouraged it - in a way an adult might tease a child i suppose. There was a time when he did touch me and i was thrilled - well i felt quite gawky etc compared to my classmates. Anyway, this went of for a while and he then sort of moved away.

When I was about 15 he came back to working locally and i would go and see him in his place of work and I would have sex with him.

The thing is, he was married - i loathed his wife and resented his children. Now i am so ashamed and embarrased about this as of course it was me who was in the wrong - what had that poor woman ever done to me? As it was he left her for another younger model (but older than me) I think he was in his 30s.

Im in my 40s now but i still can't help but wonder if this is what has shaped things for me? Due to my spurned affections for this man (quite happy to fuck me of course) i slept around and can't count how many men I have slept with.

The only thing i do have any confidence in though is my sexuality - I have been with DP for 20 years now and our sex life, whilst a bit slack lately due to other reasons has always been good.

Sorry, this all probably seems a bit moot but i have spent many years wondering - the nickname says it all really

OHforDUCKScake Sun 31-Mar-13 20:27:26

Touched you in what way?

selsigfach Sun 31-Mar-13 20:27:41

He was sexually abusing you at the age if 12, this isn't a question you need to be asking. I'm so sorry that this happened to you. Have you someone in RL you can talk about this with?

SneezingwakestheJesus Sun 31-Mar-13 20:28:25

You were abused and taken advantage of. 16 is the legal age for sex for a reason and under that age (even at 15) you are a child who doesn't have the right kind of emotional development to deal with those type of situations. You are definitely not a slut so please don't think that.

Idocrazythings Sun 31-Mar-13 20:29:23

Victim. I'm so sorry you were taken advantage of like that.

MrsLouisTheroux Sun 31-Mar-13 20:30:13

He was certainly in the wrong. A lot of young girls are insecure and he took advantage. You felt 'thrilled' because he was tuning into your insecurities and made you feel wanted. I hate men like this with a passion. They are devious charmers who will say anything and use anyone to get what they want.
Don't feel guilty OP, you're the victim.

Idocrazythings Sun 31-Mar-13 20:30:16

You were probably groomed too from the age of 12

EllaFitzgerald Sun 31-Mar-13 20:30:48

You were a child. You cannot compare yourself to the type of woman who would chase after a married man. He, on the other hand, was an adult. He was the one who should have behaved appropriately but chose to take advantage of you instead, and your low self esteem is the result of that.

I think you should definitely think about counselling.

Backtobedlam Sun 31-Mar-13 20:32:20

This is in no way your fault, at 12, and then 15, you were a child. He took advantage of you and in no way should you take the blame for that. When you look at 12 year olds now, you can see they are children. Even if they dress older, wear make-up, talk the talk etc. that is just a stage of growing up and not something that any adult should ever respond to. Have you ever spoken to anyone in RL about this?

MooMooSkit Sun 31-Mar-13 20:32:59

No no no you are not a slut, please don't think that! Emotionally at 12 - 15 you wouldn't of been developed and even some girls, physically, at 15 are behind and do not have the physical appearance of a woman at all. It's exactly why, now, as a grown woman, you can now see something wasn't right. Please don't blame yourself and I only echo what everyone else says, please get some help.

catgirl1976 Sun 31-Mar-13 20:33:03

No you are not a slut.

Horrible word. I'm not fond of victim either tbh but it's a much better word than slut if you force me to choose between the two.

At 12 you were a child and whatever you were doing should not have been encouraged in any way by a grown man. It's him that is at fault, not you.

Normal for a child to explore their sexuality and experiment with flirting etc.

Not normal for an adult to exploit that.

When I was about 14 I went to a sports camp and lost my virginity to a guy in his late 20s who was coaching amercian football. Now I flirted and said it was what I wanted yadda, yadda, but a normal man would not take advantage of a child doing that.

You were a child, he was a grown man. End of. I am neither a slut nor a victim. I was a child who was taken advantage of. I am now an adult with a functioning relationship.

Low self-esteem often comes out through gaining "approval" via sex. I am pretty sure it's very common. It was for me for a lot of my teens If you have been with you DP for 20 odd years it sounds like you have got over this and are having a good, adult realtionship. Be proud of yourself for that and don't blame yourself for being exploited as a child.

pinkyredrose Sun 31-Mar-13 20:33:34

He's an abuser. You did nothing wrong.

Loislane78 Sun 31-Mar-13 20:34:49

Well is that not technically rape or child abuse? 15 yo with 18 yo I suppose I don't have a problem with but an older married man interested and touching a 12 yo - WRONG, illegal, v scary. How did you know this person?

I think you were v much the victim and I'm glad you've turned your life around and are happily with someone. Relationships aren't all about sex though, how good it is and frequency which you seem to infer. What you bring should be based on more than that so I would say perhaps you do still have some self-esteem issues.

Corygal Sun 31-Mar-13 20:35:05

Why are you bringing this up now?

SanityClause Sun 31-Mar-13 20:35:21

You were a victim. You were a vulnerable child, and he took advantage of you.

BTW, there is no such thing as a "slut". There are women who have a lot of sex for one reason or another, just as some men do.

LemonPeculiarJones Sun 31-Mar-13 20:35:24

Victim. So sorry you went through that. You were a child and groomed to be sexually exploited by that vile, worthless man.

There is no other way to look at that part of your history. Please do get some counselling or therapy, to help you work through your memories and move on in the full knowledge you were not the one to blame.

marriedinwhiteagain Sun 31-Mar-13 20:41:17

He took advantage of your innocence and your youth and he abused you. Did you have anyone to look out for you and love you unconditionally at that time?

I am really glad you have been happy for the last 20 years. If you need to unpick what happened, get some professional counselling.

AnneNonimous Sun 31-Mar-13 20:42:18

corygal why the hell does it matter?

AnneNonimous Sun 31-Mar-13 20:46:05

OP, this has made me well up as I can relate to it so much. When I was a child/young teenager attention from older men was exciting. You want to feel like an adult and be treated that one. Which usually means doing adult things that you are too young to emotionally understand.

I was abused at the same age, and yes you were abused. You are now an adult, if you look at any 15 year old you know can you imagine it being ok for you to have sex with them?

Most importantly you are not to blame yourself for what happened and what it caused you to do afterwards. I slept around for years and have felt so much guilt and shame until I realised exactly why I had been doing it.

Big hugs to you OP.

parakeet Sun 31-Mar-13 20:46:22

I too dislike the word slut. It implies there is something wrong with women having "too much" sex.

There's a lot wrong with a married man having sex with another woman, though, and an awful, awful lot wrong with an adult man interacting sexually with a 12-year-old. You could still report him for this now and ruin his life, if you wish to.

twofingerstoGideon Sun 31-Mar-13 20:46:27

Why are you bringing this up now?
WTAF??

twofingerstoGideon Sun 31-Mar-13 20:47:50

You did absolutely nothing wrong. So glad you're in therapy and I sincerely hope it helps you come to terms with what this person did to you.

lovetomoan Sun 31-Mar-13 20:48:43

You were a child and he was/is a child abuser.

So many children have a 'crush' on their teachers, but teachers don't act like this man acted towards you.

Stop feeling guilty. You are not to blame. I am sorry that happened to you.

Yes, he was in the wrong and he took advantage of your teenage crush on him.

HOWEVER - if this hasn't been troubling you, then don't start letting it trouble you now.

Please don;t let the opinions of others begin to make you feel like a victim if you didn't feel that way before. If you're not ok, seek help, but if you're ok, then you've dealt with it perfectly well and probably won't gain anything by digging it up.

MooMooSkit Sun 31-Mar-13 20:52:32

Just want to add, I've never mentioned it on here but it took me years to realise I was in a similar situation when i was younger. I was 14 and had an older man (21) pay lots of attention in me and I thought it was flattering and "cool" and I had sex with him, just for that reason and I wasn't ready at all. I now realise I was just young and he shouldn't of been showing ANY interest in me when I was a child. I also spent the best part of my twenties sleeping around and just not feeling right and I did have therapy and it helped me hugely. Please don't feel alone and you can PM me whenever if you'd like a chat or any advice. x

ParadiseChick Sun 31-Mar-13 20:53:32

I had a similar situation. It's took me a long time to reason that it was abuse.

As an adult it was his job to say no, regardless of my advances.

Worriedaboutapal Sun 31-Mar-13 20:57:59

I was abused as a teen too. What (not to mention married) man in their right mind would allow sleep with a young teenager?

Check out "Survivor To Thriver" if you can find it somewhere on the www - it has a checklist of after-effects of sexual abuse so you could see which ones apply to you. I found it quite useful.

Quak Sun 31-Mar-13 20:58:25

You, as everyone else has said, were a child and he was the adult. Nothing you did, wanted or seemed to ask for will ever justify or excuse what he did.
Think about any adult male you love and respect. Would they behave like that? No they wouldn't because that is not the way decent human beings behave.
I hope you can start to see that and believe that no matter what you think you were like as a child, you were in no way responsible for what it seems was grooming and sexual abuse.
I agree, if you're ready then counselling might help you reframe this situation and address your self esteem issues. I wish you well op.

Worriedaboutapal Sun 31-Mar-13 20:58:34

I meant: would allow themselves to sleep with a young teenager?

Maggie111 Sun 31-Mar-13 20:58:59

He abused you. You were a child. Plenty of children have crushes and plenty of men fancy children... But for an adult to step over the line is just a guaranteed way to fuck you up for a long time. That's why teachers and people in positions of authority can't have relationships, that's why the age of consent is 16... You're not mature enough to know better, so yes you can "come onto" someone in a flirtatious way - but they really should have enough fucking sense to think "I remember being stupid and 12/15 - so I will say no."

He is wrong, no wonder you have issues now at 40! I completely agree with ParadiseChick - it was his job to say no. He failed you.

DizzyHoneyBee Sun 31-Mar-13 21:09:37

Don't feel guilty about it, it's terrible that it happened to you and you are certainly not a slut because of it. You're a survivor and you deserve to get the support you need to move on from what happened.

slutorvictim Sun 31-Mar-13 21:25:02

thankyou everyone for your responses, they are as i expected. Exactly the advice i would give anyone else.

Corygirl Why are you bringing this up now?

That is a good question and a fair one - I don't know, it isn't something that actually bothers me. At least i don't THINK it is. I certainly don't consider myself a victim and am more uncomfortable with victim than i am slut (slut implies I made choices - i didn't then, but i do now)

I ask because I suffer from anxiety and depression and have had a fair bit of counselling. I have never discussed this before or felt the need to. Im not sure i feel the need to now.

The reason I am looking back is because my self esteem is so low and i want to make sure that i make full use of the counselling that I have. There are issues with my mother - she is a trigger and there are issues surrounding my career - but the career issues are due to my crippling lack of confidence. Lack of confidence that my friends would be astounded if they knew about - i mask it well with a loud mouth and a rather precocious attitude. I used to dress quite "slutty" but I no longer have the confidence to do that.

Orianne Sun 31-Mar-13 21:27:52

I've just been reading comments on an article about Bill Wyman and Mandy Smith where some idiot was saying she was a party girl and well up for it. No she fucking wasn't she was 14 and he was in his forties. It was abuse and he should have been prosecuted.

This wasn't your fault OP, it was abuse.

Backtobedlam Sun 31-Mar-13 21:33:32

If you are already having counselling I don't think this is something you should hold back. Without giving the full picture to your counseller you won't gain as much from the sessions, and as you are there, and talking through things you may as well be totally open.

Self confidence is a funny one, in that lots of people who appear confident, or even over-confident may actually be struggling underneath. You certainly won't be the only one at work that puts on a 'persona'. Its good you are addressing it though, and I hope things go well for you in the future.

ashesgirl Sun 31-Mar-13 21:37:42

I don't really think it's a fair question to ask why are you bringing it up now. It doesn't really matter. Lots of people revisit these things much later on in life.

DioneTheDiabolist Sun 31-Mar-13 21:38:32

SlutorVictim, You said am more uncomfortable with victim than I am slut. Why do you think you find it so difficult to accept that he abused you and you were not to blame?

slutorvictim Sun 31-Mar-13 21:43:32

Dione - it is like admitting a weakness i suppose. I don't feel like a victim

Pagwatch Sun 31-Mar-13 21:46:30

To be fair Corygals post could be asking if something has happened to prompt these thoughts. I might be wrong but it's possible .
I know the thing that prompted my re-examining my abuse was relevant to how I viewed it iyswim

b4bunnies Sun 31-Mar-13 21:49:36

all the people who have said an adult shouldn't do that, he was an abuser, are absolutely correct.

but read the thread and see how many underage girls put themselves up for sex with older men. we have to teach girls not to do this. their hormones tell them to, they haven't the emotional maturity to understand the harm it might do to them and others. they were putting themselves out there generations ago and they are doing it today, tonight.

'it was up to him to reject my advances' someone said. not 'it was up to me not to make advances' or 'it was up to my parents not to allow me to get into circumstances where i could make advances to older men'.

yes, you could go back 20 years and have that person imprisoned. it might be right to do that. but there's something fairly sick about saying 'girls should be able to come on to men without men taking advantage'. there is a whole layer of responsibility missing. if the girl is too young to take responsibility for herself, her parents and carers should be protecting her.

where is your teenage daughter tonight?

Pagwatch Sun 31-Mar-13 21:50:19

Slutorvictim.
I was abused but I am not a victim. It happened to me but examining what happened to me is to help me move on, not let it affect me.
I would have felt like a victim if I let those acts years ago define how I viewed myself - especially as a slut

alwaysinhiding Sun 31-Mar-13 21:50:52

Like others i have felt the same, when i was 14 i fancied a friends family member he was 25, i used to flirt with him alot and we hung around his house daily id try and wind him up cringeworthy now but i suppose i was trying to feel grown up, i used to feel he was flirting back but not obviously, one day he was going on holiday so my friend and i wouldnt be seeing him for 2 weeks, just as were leaving he said wait up, closed the door and pushed me against the wall and kissed me i could feel he had an erection and he was pushing it against me i got a fright tbh it was more than i expected but made a laugh and left, i never visited him again and often wonder if he or i was in the wrong he was the adult but i did wind him up, either way it makes me feel horrid thinking about it now that im pushing 30

Pagwatch Sun 31-Mar-13 21:56:14

Erm. A 12 year old girl with a crush on a man will be perfectly safe with any man who doesn't abuse 12 year old girls.
Most men do not have unwieldy penises that are completely out of their control.

The question is not about 'should the op go back 20 years and have him jailed'.
The question is was she abused or not. She was.

BruthasTortoise Sun 31-Mar-13 22:02:05

I think in this case you were the victim of abuse but when I was 15 my boyfriend was in his early 20s. He was lovely, we had lovely respectful sex as soon as i turned 16 and I certainly wasn't abused. I don't think it's as straightforward as any older person in a relationship is automatically an abuser if their boyfriend/girlfriend is 15.

DioneTheDiabolist Sun 31-Mar-13 22:03:21

Childhood isn't weakness SlutorVictim.smile. It is a precious, vulnerable state, so valued by our society that we have laws to protect children. As a 12yo child, you were not weak, however you were vulnerable. This man used the fact that you were vulnerable to sexually abuse you. He emotionally abused you so you would be more co-operative. The power imbalance in this relationship was such that it could only be described as abusive.sad

He not only abused your body, he messed with your head so that he could abuse your 12yo body with impunity. You don't have to feel like a victim but what he did to you was certainly abuse.

slutorvictim Sun 31-Mar-13 22:08:04

b4bunnies - this man (perfectly "respectable" not some jeremy kyle type) was sort of a friend of the family. I was open about my crush on him, because i was 12 and didn't really get it i suppose. I was giggly and silly about it, my dad used to tease me FFS!

I have no desire to put him behind bars, it wouldnt achieve anything - he has a family, children, grandchildren no doubt (who i am am sure as the next person he is not risk to, if i thought that, things would be different).

Ironically when i was 12 it was just an innocent school girl crush but he took advantage of it, inappropriate talk, touching me, getting me to touch him. Then he was off the scene for a few years and I lost my virginity, at 14 to someone else. It was around this time he came back on the scene, i was "in love " with this man though so imagine how i felt when at 15 he was interested in me! Had sex with me regularly. This was during the day (i would go and see him at work on the way home from school) my parents were pretty much over protective and i wsn't allowed out in the evenings. I often wonder if i was if it wouldnt have happened because i would have been out and about with my peer group and indulging in heavy petting instead of getting fucked in the back of a double glazing showroom. <sordid>

If this person had done this to my daughter, he would be in prison or dead now - i told my parents later on (when i was about 19 and he dumped me!) - they were disappointed (in me!)

Pagwatch Sun 31-Mar-13 22:11:30

That's not unusual slutorvictim .
Most paedophiles succeed because they are perfectly respectable.
The image of an abuser as some dodgy sort just helps to heap confusion on the situation. It's why I hate stranger danger.
It's also why parents are often crap. They can't quite make sense of it and ofte are in denial about the access they allowed the abuser to their child. Guilt is involved I think.

slutorvictim Sun 31-Mar-13 22:11:35

Bruthas that is a very good point - my DP is 7 years older than I am, we met when i was 21 and he was 28. I think we had the conversation along the lines of "oh, when you (DP) were 21 i would have been 14 would you still have gone out with me" He said "no way, why would i be interested in a child and it would be wrong of me". I think it was different for me with this other guy - i was 12 and he was 32. I agree that you wasn't abused at all.

I am really sorry but you was abused my love.

BruthasTortoise Sun 31-Mar-13 22:17:46

slutorvictim he was definitely an abuser. Even without the inappropriateness when you were 12 (which in my view makes him a full on paedophile), the imbalance of power in the "relationship" makes it completely abusive.

slutorvictim Sun 31-Mar-13 22:27:09

When i think about it (in my wine fuelled state)I can't help but think that this fucker stole my teenage years from me - instead of being out with my friends I was pining for a fucking idiot who i thought was a god hmm It makes me angry. I have seen him around a few times and I have wanted to go up to him and say, hey you - I did ok you know - i wasn't stupid after all. He doesn't recognise me when he walks past me in the street. I thought i loved him. I didn't - i sold myself down the swanny for him. Cunt

I am lucky though, I have a lovely DP and we have had a good relationship, its had its rough patches (money) but i'll grow old with him.

TraineeBabyCatcher Sun 31-Mar-13 23:34:42

This is something I think about sometimes. I had sex with an older teen (18/19) when I was 14, I did it because I was insecure and bullied and I thought sleeping with him would help make me popular and get friends as he was a popular person and very attractive. In reality its just made me feel like a slut for the rest of my life. I'm embarrassed by the way I behaved and would be saddened and angry if I found out any child of mine (or any really) had been taken advantage of in the same way.

In answer to you op, you are definitely not a slut!

IneedAsockamnesty Sun 31-Mar-13 23:39:16

You were abused and it was NOT your fault

MordecaiMargaret Sun 31-Mar-13 23:58:22

You were abused and I'm so sorry you were.
Similar situation happened to me, I was 14, he was in his thirties. I got validation from him, made me think being sexual was something I was really good at and it became part of my self identity. I acted slutty until my twenties and tried to own that description because I didn't want to feel like a victim, I was a slut but it was my choice.
It was my choice, he didn't force me but he groomed and manipulated me into thinking I wanted to, 'easing' my fears if I had any doubts.

In a way, being promiscuous with others after felt like a fuck you to him. Like yeah you hurt me but I'm a sexual person and I'm like this anyway so you don't matter.
I don't know if that makes any sense.

I married someone great and sometimes now get so sad after sex which is good and caring because that prick robbed me of experiencing sex like that for the first time. He made it into something dirty.

Sorry for going on, just identified with a lot of what you said.

Please don't call yourself a slut, I did for years too.

merrymuzzie Mon 01-Apr-13 00:24:48

You were underage. What he did was illegal.

lovetomoan Mon 01-Apr-13 15:54:05

I also told my DH about your thread and he says what that man did to you it's disgusting and you were vulnerable. He abused you.

notmyproblem Mon 01-Apr-13 16:58:09

If this person had done this to my daughter, he would be in prison or dead now

That says it all, doesn't it OP?

It can be a very uncomfortable moment realising and admitting you were a victim. But being a victim of an abuser does not make you a bad person, as you well know.

I think you should discuss this in your counselling.

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