to be getting embarrassed now at my 3yos behaviour?

(37 Posts)
AllPurposeNortherner Sat 30-Mar-13 23:51:24

Seriously. Today she hit my mums birthday cake and sent slices flying, because her slice wasn't coming fast enough.

I've tried all sorts. People say she is just being three to my face, but i see them rolling their eyes.

She strips off randomly (when she was a toddler at one point she was going to bed with packing tape on her nappy, two vests and a backwards sleepsuit and STILL getting naked and smearing poo)

She has HUGE tantrums, involving running about throwing things and ripping up paper etc, usually for hardly any reason except her being tired

She still has a bottle at night, because that and her smelly blanket is the only way I get a couple of hours peace before she comes into my bed and kicks me/shoves blanket in my face/hits me with books until she suddenly conks out asleep.

She randomly attacks 6yo DD1, pulling her hair, so much that I am starting to consider telling DD1 to hit back, which is no good for anyone.

She is very loving, and funny, and will chat about Thomas or pretend to be a dog for hours on end, but her temper is getting me down and starting to mean that other children are wary of her.

HELP!

znaika Sat 30-Mar-13 23:55:01

what kind of 3 is she? just out of the terrible twos or nearer to four? what do you do when she's naughty?

AgentZigzag Sat 30-Mar-13 23:57:19

They all sound very usual things for a 3 YO and nothing to be embarrassed about at all smile

It can be a bit alarming though because of the sheer emotion of what they do, but they're just learning the rules and how you deal with it really matters.

Telling your DD1 to hit back is definitely out, why would you encourage such a thing?

Be firm, consistent and persistent.

YouTheCat Sun 31-Mar-13 00:06:13

Can you speak to your HV about having some assessments done?

I only say this because that description reminded me of my ds when he was 3 and he is on the autistic spectrum - especially the poo smearing. I had 3 years of that.

AllPurposeNortherner Sun 31-Mar-13 00:32:10

She turned 3 in November, so 3.4. DD1 has only just turned 6.

I know about the hitting back being a bad idea, I don't think I would do it, but I've lost count of the amount of times I have left them playing at the opposite ends of the room, gone to wash up or whatever and heard DD1 crying so rushed back in to see her head bent back with DD2 hold of her hair and DD1 not fighting back or defending herself at all, just crying. Often with DD1s book or drawing thrown across the room or ripped.

Interesting that you mention autism. DD1 has her own autistic style issues - wetting herself, staring at children, whistling, climbing as a calming mechanism, outdated vocabulary, chewing/licking things, random facts with no connection to conversation recited word for word from a book she read the week before etc, correcting my grammar, interpreting things very literally and crying when other children break rules. DD1 started a new school and was upset that other children were "bothering" her by asking her to play. DD2 is so different though - they are like chalk and cheese - if we go for a walk, DD2 will be under my skirt and non stop chattering, DD1 goes and sits in an empty field then comes back with a question, usually about death or gore.

I wonder if I could take them both to the GP at once?

zippey Sun 31-Mar-13 00:42:07

Id agree with being firm, and maybe a time-out/naughty step solution if current discipling isnt working. It might give her time to calm down.

Please dont tell your DD1 to hit back, that is just going to cause her to be as bad.

AllPurposeNortherner Sun 31-Mar-13 00:48:18

I try time out, she just laughs and runs away. Even a couple of times she has said sorry, but it is just a word that she expects will undo whatever she has done and she gets annoyed when people are still annoyed.

Stickers just lead to her telling me "I not get ANY stickers today, cos I being naughty!"

I tried putting her favourite coat in my (locked) office for two days and she just shrugged and told me she has another one.

AllPurposeNortherner Sun 31-Mar-13 00:48:39

The coat thing was because she wouldn't pick it up off the floor.

ll31 Sun 31-Mar-13 00:55:47

they both sound lovely interesting but exhausting kids! what about asking health visitor or gp-even if only for reassurance

ll31 Sun 31-Mar-13 00:56:06

they both sound lovely interesting but exhausting kids! what about asking health visitor or gp-even if only for reassurance

AgentZigzag Sun 31-Mar-13 02:00:24

I'm not sure a 3 YO would have the cognitive ability to fully understand the concept of feeling sorry and all the complex reasons why that might affect other people and what makes it a good thing to do AllPurpose.

It's encouraging good behaviour in them by setting up foundations for when they have a better understanding of why these things matter.

Who is it that's carrying on being annoyed at her even after she's apologised? It seems a bit strong, because I can't think of anything a 3 YO would do which is so bad that an adult is still annoyed, even after the DC has done what they've been told to do after they've done something wrong, and say they're sorry.

And what she said about the coat is just pure 3 YO logic, and very true.

She's not saying it because she's trying to get one over on you, she's saying it because she's trying to make sense of the world and that's how things come across to her.

I'm only going on the few posts you've written, but your expectations seem very high, perhaps a bit too high, of such a small child.

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Sun 31-Mar-13 08:56:42

I disagree with Agent that it's ordinary behaviour for a 3 year old....yes 3 year olds are impulsive etc but what you describe OP doesn't sound that typical and I would ask for an assesment.

Have you noticed if she plays well with other children? Is she imaginative?

Coconutty Sun 31-Mar-13 09:03:04

Does she go to nursery? Have you spoken to them about her behaviour or how she's getting on? For God's sake don't feel embarrassed of her, we've all had times when our kids haven't behaved as we'd have liked.

MrsLouisTheroux Sun 31-Mar-13 09:21:56

They all sound very usual things for a 3 YO and nothing to be embarrassed about at all
No, not usual.
What's her sleep pattern like OP? 3 year olds need sleep and if she's getting over tired/ staying up too late it would account for the manic behaviour and sudden dropping down fast asleep.

digerd Sun 31-Mar-13 09:27:50

Your DD1, has the right to defend herself against the attacks from her sister.

RedHelenB Sun 31-Mar-13 09:32:17

My ds was still randomly undressing himself at gone 3. Doesn't sound too extreme from what you've posted but it is wearing. Have you tried the three crosses & 10 ticks? Used to work with ds if he got less that 3 crosses & 10 ticks for doing something he should first time the he got a small treat.

lisad123everybodydancenow Sun 31-Mar-13 09:33:31

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

dietstartstmoz Sun 31-Mar-13 09:51:02

OP-our youngest son has autism. I would advise you to go to your GP with both and list your concerns for both and ask for a referral to have them both assessed for asd. From reading your description of your DD1 you should also inform the school senco of your concerns and referral. Your dd2 sounds like she could have sensory difficulties-stripping off etc. and the cake incident could be 3 yr old frustration but it may also be her lack of understanding. Do get a referral. If it asd it wont go away and more problems can develop as they get older. Good luck

KittyAndTheFontanelles Sun 31-Mar-13 09:54:13

angry shock w

AllPurposeNortherner Sun 31-Mar-13 10:25:42

They are both imaginative, DD2 spends about half her life as a dog or train (and much of the rest of it talking about dogs and trains. Especially trains - their Dad has won his round of mastermind twice and come second in the semis twice and he can't keep up the amount of Thomas knowledge the 3yo has grin)

DD1 is in her own dream world, she sings and whistles, and talks in an American voice about being a princess. Then she randomly shouts at people for saying "tummy" instead of "stomach" or something. Sigh. But she is imaginative. Her own chosen reading is about 50-50 fiction and non fiction, and the fiction is things like those awful Rainbow Fairies as well as the usual Roald Dahl etc, so she has the imagination to follow them.

They are both the best children in the world, obviously grin but it is difficult when I have them both upset over NOTHING, DD1 wet and DD2 nude. People keep telling me to smack them, which obviously I would NEVER do, but I feel like I am being judged.

They are such lovely girls, most of the time they are relatively presentable and polite, they are both really clever - I get quite a lot of people doing that raised eyebrow, opened eyes look over their heads when one of them says a clever thing. They are both so loving too - DD1 comes and sits about a cm from my face, and DD2 knocks me over sometimes with the strength that she runs at me for a cuddle.

I would just like to be able to do some housework or have a brew without world war three setting off.

DD1 has just started at her new school - she did just mornings for a week, then the half week of full days before the holiday, and DD2 starts her new nursery soon, so I will give them a few weeks then ask what people think. Me and thier dad have just split up and we have all moved, so people might put it down to that, but they have always been like this. Emotions are higher atm, they are having more tantrums and random odd behaviour, but that is fair enough.

Dawndonna Sun 31-Mar-13 10:36:10

I have three with Autism. I would go to the doctors and have a chat.
Mine are all beautiful and clever and all present very differently, but I did have one that did the poo smearing and undressing. And yes, we parcel taped nappies on and put sleepsuits on backwards.

CamillaMacaulay1 Sun 31-Mar-13 10:43:07

I have a spirited 3 year old. She's nearly 4 now and has started to calm down....a little!! Whenever she has hit her sister she got put on time out and now she doesn't do that any more. WRT knowing if there is a special need, I think it can be hard to figure out when something is problem enough to need a diagnosis. I think as a parent you have a gut feeling as to whether your child is not NT. I've had the odd concern about my 3 year old but when looking at the bigger picture I think she is probably ok at this point. But I continue to keep an eye on her as I have another with ASD.

dietstartstmoz Sun 31-Mar-13 11:15:08

OP- my autistic son is beautiful, charms everyone he meets. All the professionals who work with him like him, enjoy working with him especially his autism teacher who adores him. He is a very loving child-lots of kisses and cuddles. He is affectionate. He is clever-in mainstream primary (with support for emotions, attention span). He is in the top 1/3 of his yr 1 class. He does spellings with yr2. He loves reading and enjoys fiction and non-fiction books. He has 'special interests' things he has an encyclopedic knowledge of. He has imagination. He has spent all morning and yest running round the house playing an imaginary mario game, he is in it and things are coming to get him. He also has a dx of high functi

dietstartstmoz Sun 31-Mar-13 11:19:18

Sorry posted too soon-he is autistic. He has huge meltdowns and tantrums. We are always walking on eggshells around him. He licks and chews everything. His sensory processing is crap and he doesnt always feel the urge to wee before its too late. Autism does not always present as you may think. Do seek a referral.

Branleuse Sun 31-Mar-13 11:21:07

i have two autistic sons who are as different from each other as chalk and cheese, but both definitely ASD.

What you said reminds me of ds1 at that age

AllPurposeNortherner Sun 31-Mar-13 11:23:33

How do I get referrals without making a big deal of it for the girls?

AgentZigzag Sun 31-Mar-13 11:26:09

The DD did the poo smearing thing when she was a toddler, the OP didn't say she still did it (unless I've missed it somewhere).

Stripping off isn't unusual, they're just learning how to get dressed/undressed and most parents are encouraging them to do it. The OPs DD has to learn where it's an appropriate time, i.e. when her mum tells her to.

And it's not OK to encourage a 6 YO to hit their 3 YO sibling, even if you tried to dress it up as her defending herself, it's the OPs job to sort it out.

'DD2 knocks me over sometimes with the strength that she runs at me for a cuddle.'

My 3.3 YO DD2 does that as well grin but I'm sorry to read you've just split with their dad though, be kind to yourself smile

dietstartstmoz Sun 31-Mar-13 11:57:20

we just made a Dr's appointment, just mentioned we had concerns etc to the Dr. Was no issue with the Dr, we didnt have to argue, she just made the referral and we waited for the appt. Could you just say to your girls it's an appointment to check how they're growing/developing. DS does not know he has ASD yet, he is aged 5 and at the moment we havent needed to tell him. When we have development checks at the hosp with the paed we tell him its a growing check. TBH he isnt really that aware, and would not think to question it or what we are doing. He would just accept it at the moment.

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Sun 31-Mar-13 11:58:13

Northerner....you go to the GP and tell him or her everything. You don't need to take the girls with you. If the GP thinks your concerns are reasonable, they will get you an assessment.

It can take a while and assessments are made to seem like fun for the DC. They child won't know what's happening. Usually it's questions for you and some playing/chatting for the DC.

lisad123everybodydancenow Sun 31-Mar-13 12:09:45

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KittyAndTheFontanelles Sun 31-Mar-13 13:44:38

oh Blimey, can I apologise for my post below. I've just noticed it in my 'threads I'm on'. I wasn't even reading this thread. I can only think my baby got hold of my phone. It's happened before.

Sorry smile

KittyAndTheFontanelles Sun 31-Mar-13 13:56:23

Before anyone wonders how my baby can negotiate square brackets etc, I'm on the Android app so the faces appear at the touch of the screen.

Didn't want the post to be thought of as disrespectful. I'll leave now.

formicaqueen Sun 31-Mar-13 14:02:41

Look on the national autistic website. It's great. It might clarify things for you a little.

Agree with you that smacking is not the answer.

But also look at the discipline you are using. Super nanny style works wonders if it's done with fairness, calmness and love. If my young ones are physically violent, it's a no brainer for us. They go to their room for 3 mins untill they have calmed down.

Time out for us is always on the naughty step but if they get off they have to go to their room instead. They are very good at staying on the step now as a result.

Is you child getting lots of attention when she behaves badly? If safe, you need to walk away or do time out - inside your home or out in public. If that fails, take the child home instantly giving little attention but clearly explain why you are leaving a play date/park etc.

Also you may find school works wonders. Boundaries and structure once settled.

Make sure you are are all getting enough sleep. Mine tend to be grumpy when they go to bed later or wake during the night. It might be worth you cracking the sleep thing. She obviously wants to be close to you at night so how about making her a special little bed on the floor in your room? Maybe you could give her a little chocolate button for staying in the little bed on your floor all night? I recon 50% of your issue is sleep related!

Also lastly, be upbeat/positive/fun yourself. Children always pick up on what ever emotion you have and take it on them selves.

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS Sun 31-Mar-13 15:04:01

Her behaviour sounds extremely challenging and not 'average'. I hope you can get some help soon as it must be very hard or you.

AllPurposeNortherner Sun 31-Mar-13 21:10:07

What does super nanny do if a child is screaming, running about, bashing themselves off things, breaking siblings toys, attacking people etc?

Shes so lovely, but so strong, and she really hurts sometimes.

She is like Jekyll and Hyde tough - most of the time she is sweet and funny, but I find myself hovering with my best 'blocking moves' if she is near anything breakable or a smaller child.

spongebobandpatrick Sun 31-Mar-13 21:33:32

I agree with the posters advising you to go and see your GP.
There is a lot of behaviour you mention that could be seen to be within the usual remit for a 3 year old, but it is the severity and the regularity that determines whether it goes beyond normal or not.

If I was to tell you that my 4 yr old DD can be aggressive, chants and smears poo, you may think that was within the usual range of behaviour for a 4 year old, if it was on the odd occasion. No one would suggest to me that DD was behaving in an unusual manner if she pushed someone over 5 months ago, and nothing since then, smeared poo onto her wall 2 years ago once and never did it again, and chanted quietly for a few minutes when told her behaviour was unacceptable, but most of the time, she was a delight, and generally did as she was asked most of the time.

but if I added that DD is aggressive so often that she is being threatened with exclusion from school, chants at the top of her voice for hours and hours on end (and her voice is very very loud), and smears poo 3 or 4 times a week, would you say the average 4 year old behaved this way?

A limited amount of most behaviours is within the usual range for a 3 year old, so long as it is not constant, ongoing, relentless, every day sort of regularity.

It is usual for a 3 year old to lose their temper, but to the point that other children are becoming wary of her? I'd say that sounds like it is happening on a regular basis, and depending on how often these undesired behaviours occur, that is why I would consult a GP.

Inseywinseyupthespout Sun 31-Mar-13 21:44:03

I could have written your post OP!

My dd has turned in to a selective hearing, disobedient, hitting little madam overnight! shock

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