Should I say anything to the Cub leader? (Concerns Fb)

(49 Posts)
FuelledByChocolate Fri 29-Mar-13 12:23:40

Ds1&2 are 9 and 10 years old and go to Cubs/Scouts.

I was flicking through fb yesterday when I noticed a photo on my newsfeed of my son. Someone on my friends list had commented on it so it had come up as news or something. I had a look and it had been posted by the Cub leader, my ds was in uniform and it looked like it had been taken at a camp or activity day. I had a look through the rest of the photos and there are quite a few of both my sons, and a number of the other Cubs. There are 3 years or more worth of photos of my dc.

I'm not sure I'm entirely comfortable with it, but don't know if I am being unreasonable as I have photos of them on my page. It is the cub leaders private page, not a club one. Would you say anything?

seeker Fri 29-Mar-13 12:25:59

I wouldn't mind- but then I don't think there's anything wrong with sharing photographs. Others, probably most will disagree. Which means that she probably shouldn't be doing it, sadly.

zwischenzug Fri 29-Mar-13 12:27:47

I agree it's a bit weird putting it on his private page. I wouldn't be entirely comfortable with it either.

piprabbit Fri 29-Mar-13 12:28:18

When I fill in a permission slip for my DD to take part in Brownie activities, I always have to tick a box giving additional permission that her photo be taken and used.
Does your DS's cub group do anything similar? Perhaps they should.

Our scout group has a registration form on which you can opt out of having your DC's photos on any scout group website/fb. Personally, I don't see the harm, they are generally photos of cubs and scouts doing scouty things, not at all worrying. I think you should maybe comment to the scout group about photos on a private fb page, though. Ours are all on a Scout Group fb page/website.

raspberryroop Fri 29-Mar-13 12:29:03

Sadly? dull comment - lots of very valid reasons why people wouldn't want their children's photo's on facebook. Adoption, DV, toxic family's etc

Montybojangles Fri 29-Mar-13 12:30:47

Bit wierd that it's on his personal page, rather than a club page.

Bringmewineandcake Fri 29-Mar-13 12:30:54

I think permission from the parents ought to be sought first, unless the person in question also has children in the same images?
Ywnbu to ask either for them to be removed, or no new images be added without your permission.

Sirzy Fri 29-Mar-13 12:31:09

I don't see why they are on his personal page, any photos taken should be for use by the organisation not for personal use.

I am a youth leader (with a different organisation) and we have been given very clear instructions not to put photos of young people on personal Facebook pages (or be "friends" with them) which I think is sensible anyway

My DH is a scout leader and can't post photos of childless faces on his personal fb page so when we take our DC.'s we make sure there are no scouts in the pictures of them.

It is the same for me with my rainbow unit.

I would raise out with the leader in question.

Should say childrens faces

seeker Fri 29-Mar-13 12:35:51

"Sadly? dull comment - lots of very valid reasons why people wouldn't want their children's photo's on facebook. Adoption, DV, toxic family's etc"

The OP will have signed a form when her children joined saying she was OK with pictures being taken, so those issues shouldn't be a factor here.

FuelledByChocolate Fri 29-Mar-13 12:36:05

(Cub leader is female)

I don't think I've ever signed anything about photos but I think I wouldn't feel it was so odd if it was a group page or a specific scouting page but they are mixed it with all her family photos, holidays etc. I'm thinking its probably because Scouting is a big part of her life and she's proud of the cubs or something. There are more photos of my dc than any other, other cubs are pictured when standing next to my dc, my boys are seemingly the focus of the shot. It just feels strange. I don't particularly like the cub leader but its a clash of personality thing rather than her not being a nice person I think.

I think it would be worth a quiet word, scout groups do know that permission should be sought and as PP have commented, some DC may have good reasons, unknown to the cub leader, not to ave photos made public, like this.

raspberryroop Fri 29-Mar-13 12:48:53

ooh look no permission slipped signed - so leader has no bloody idea of any parents/carers wishes ! Also can't ever envisage a permission slip that says 'picture to be used on PERSONAL facebook pages' As someone who has a few valid reason why I don't want picture of one of my kids available on the web, I find the 'I don't mind so no body else should' attitude stupid

FuelledByChocolate Fri 29-Mar-13 12:52:11

Oh, I think I have worked out why blush

I just looked through her friends list and she is friends with my exmil and co so probably knows my dc through her (I am divorced from their dad) so has possibly put them up because she feels she knows them out of cubs (if she does, I don't know, will ask dc) or something. Maybe she wanted to share the photos with exmil confused

If they are in cubs' uniform and she is the cub leader, then, sorry, that's not like a family friend putting photos on their fb

Sirzy Fri 29-Mar-13 12:59:30

That still doesn't make it ok, to put photos on personal Facebook is unprofessional and I would be suprised if the child protection policy didn't advice against it.

seeker Fri 29-Mar-13 13:01:14

The crucial thing here is that no permission slip has been signed. This means that potentially children could have their pictures in the paper without their parents/carers knowing- a much bigger risk in terms of people seeing them who shouldn't, and the OP should certainly take this up with the Leader. Every scout/cub parent should have signed a form like that.

teacherandguideleader Fri 29-Mar-13 13:09:34

My Guides' parents sign a slip giving permission for photos to be used on the internet however I wouldn't dream of putting their photos on my fb page! I am sure it is not allowed. I have pictures from events saved on my laptop which I occasionally show selected people (e.g. my mum and best friend who is a fellow teacher and guide leader) but I can control what people see. I think you should have a word, there may be some children whose identity needs protecting.

teacherandguideleader Fri 29-Mar-13 13:14:56

PS - Guides is a big part of my life and I do put photos from events on fb, but not shots of the children. There may be the occasional leg or butt in view, but nothing that identifies a child.

exoticfruits Fri 29-Mar-13 13:17:47

I don't put any photographs on FB unless I have asked the person. Most of my friends are not on FB and therefore I never put photos of them on there. I have a lot of photos, but they are mainly places and the few people that I know don't mind.
I do things now with Beaver groups, occasionally, and have a form to sign about photos-HOWEVER-that is only for publicity purposes and I would never use them in a personal way.

FuelledByChocolate Fri 29-Mar-13 13:19:54

They are in full cub uniform on the photos (so are the other children in the photos) they are taken at cub events and she is also in uniform. I don't think her knowing exmil makes it ok to have the photos on there but at least it explains why she has them up (I think!)

mercibucket Fri 29-Mar-13 13:22:19

Are you sure you didn't sign a permission slip, though, as its usually a standard form as part of the registration process.
Not that it applies to private pages, which is not really appropriate, but just because some posters have leapt on it
Are you unhappy about the photos being online? If so, I'd message her to let her know, or speak to her at the next meet

mercibucket Fri 29-Mar-13 13:22:20

Are you sure you didn't sign a permission slip, though, as its usually a standard form as part of the registration process.
Not that it applies to private pages, which is not really appropriate, but just because some posters have leapt on it
Are you unhappy about the photos being online? If so, I'd message her to let her know, or speak to her at the next meet

thezebrawearspurple Fri 29-Mar-13 13:29:20

Nobody should be putting up pictures of other peoples kids without parental permission. Your putting up photos of your own kid, doesn't justify anyone else doing it! She is being extremely inappropriate here and may have images up of children whose parents don't want them on the web at all and are unaware of the fact.

HildaOgden Fri 29-Mar-13 13:30:56

It's not her place to be passing on photos of your children to ex-mil.

Over-stepping a boundary,I think.I'd ask her superior what the official policy is about scout leaders posting pictures of the scouts on their own personal page.

FuelledByChocolate Fri 29-Mar-13 14:03:06

She may not be passing the photos on to exmil (although I have no reason to not want exmil to have them) it could just be a co-incidence that they are Facebook friends. I don't remember signing a permissions form when they started, I did the name, address, doctors details, form but I can't remember anything about photos although I could be wrong, it was a long time ago. I do know that photos aren't mentioned on the camp or activity days letters.

I've had a look at one of the other scout leaders page (he's on my fb as we were at school together) and he has some photos but mainly of his son (who is in the group) and bits of the other cubs - an arm, or side profile etc

mmmerangue Fri 29-Mar-13 15:45:17

Are you friends with her? If not and it came up in your news feed then she has them on a public or 'friends of friends' setting and that can mean 1000s of people who have no knowledge of you or your kids can see them.

I would consider asking her to check her privacy settings at the very least.

MaureenMLove Fri 29-Mar-13 15:52:08

It is not allowed in Guiding. Parental permission for photos to go on walls at the hall or in a news letter or something is a different thing.

I remember very clearly at least 4 years ago, this came up and advice came down from HQ, that pictures on the internet is not acceptable.

It's just not on. If you feel a bit embarrassed speaking directly to the cub leader, you need to speak someone higher up the ranks.

Viviennemary Fri 29-Mar-13 15:54:06

No I wouldn't like that. Not quite sure why. It's just too public. And people should ask permission before assuming that it's perfectly OK to put photos of other people's children on facebook for the whole world to see. No. I would say something.

That's really bad! We're not allowed any pictures of under 18's we know through scouting on our personal social media pages in my troop but I'm pretty certain it's a scouting wide 'rule'. It's also one of the first things they make you learn for your Wood Badge!

Complain. Loudly. Facebook is not private any more, people can see what others comment on and for all the leader knew they could have had an adopted child in one of those photos whose biological parents could come across them. It is getting more common for this to happen.

mmmerange: She might not have it on friends of friends. Facebook's current settings mean that if you comment on something on a friends page, whether that friend's page is set to private or not, it can show in your newsfeed.

mmmerangue Fri 29-Mar-13 16:18:58

But in your other friends feeds, if they are not friends with the original poster? OP said she noticed it because a friend commented on it.

So that is a non-friends photo (privacy setting unknown) being commented on by a friend and seen by OP. I would assume if it were set to friends only, then only friends could see it.

God I hate Facebook and their constantly-changing goalposts RE privacy. I am going to have to check my profile again!

TBH she should not have them up there, it may not be against any specific rules but it is thoughtless on her part not to ask for permission, even if it is just to show her pride at her Troop. A 'Scouts and Cubs' page would seem reasonable provided forms had been signed. Not the leaders personal page.

My facebook friends extend from schoolfriends to old work colleagues to Uni mates to people I actually associate with in real life. They are after quite a lot of work all sectioned off into groups who have different levels of access to my information (specifically photos of my DS and contact information).

Would you want random people that your Cub leader went to school with 15? 20? 40? years ago, being able to see pictures of your kids without your knowledge?

Felicitywasonholiday Fri 29-Mar-13 16:26:27

Would you want random people that your Cub leader went to school with 15? 20? 40? years ago, being able to see pictures of your kids without your knowledge?

Honestly, this wouldn't cross my mind as being a problem- as no harm is being caused to DC as a result of a stranger seeing their image.

On the other hand, any fool knows that cub leaders shouldn't have pictures of cubs on their personal pages. It's clearly against the rules.

FuelledByChocolate Fri 29-Mar-13 16:31:06

I'm not on her friends list. I looked at her page though and I can see everything on it, all her status' and all her albums etc so I assume anyone else can too.

I am a bit embarrassed to speak to her, especially now I know she is a friend of exmils, I'm worried about sounding like a control freak.

DumSpiroSpero Fri 29-Mar-13 16:43:02

A few weeks ago I've have been pretty ambivalent about this kind of thing, but then my mum set up a FB a/c and posted a photo of my DD, not realising her settings were set to public. I went online that evening and saw random comments from a bloke my cousin is friendly with (have only just got back in touch with cousin after about 20 years).

Regardless of how you feel from a personal pov, this is a pretty major safeguarding issue and you'd be doing this woman a favour if you raised it with her before someone has a really serious reason to.

(don't mean to imply your concerns aren't serious btw just thinking of a full on child protection situation)

mrs2cats Fri 29-Mar-13 16:43:21

It's very odd that she has cub photos on her personal page. I don't think that's allowed - on scout sites yes (but a child must not be easily identifiable eg full name or easily tagged), but not on a leader's personal page.

You probably signed a permission slip at some point but that would be purely for scouting purposes and this does not sound like that kind of case.

seeker Fri 29-Mar-13 16:49:57

"Would you want random people that your Cub leader went to school with 15? 20? 40? years ago, being able to see pictures of your kids without your knowledge?"

Why not?

However, it does sound as if the cub leader concerned doesn't understand Facebook privacy. I would send her a message suggesting she tightens it up.

And I would also talk to her about the photo permission form- that's the really important thing in this whole situation.

mmmerangue Fri 29-Mar-13 17:01:17

"as no harm is being caused to DC as a result of a stranger seeing their image."

- This is the main issue with internet privacy, Children on facebook etc etc.

They could be seen by anyone. ANYONE. He may not be being directly harmed but other people could download them, reupload them somewhere else, somewhere unscrupulous, somewhere the OP REALLY doesn't want them.

Trying not to sound Daily Fail or scaremonger, but it really is an issue. I have heard of people passing others kids off as their own on fake profiles to appear as a real person; (Think this was on MN, a while ago maybe over a year) which were used for phishing. People having their photos used in advertising in random foreign countries. This is a milder complaint I'm sure you can think of more serious ones without me going into detail.

Also - I do post photos of my son in private albums for close friends and family. But every one, I think about, I consider if it is ok. No naked/bath photos, ever. If he ever said 'Mummy I don't want you to do that,' I would take them all down. But even then once it's on the internet, it's there forever.

Sianilaa Fri 29-Mar-13 17:54:42

Would you be ok with a teacher posting pictures of their pupils in school uniform on their personal Facebook pages?

That is unacceptable, even if you had signed a permission slip - those photographs should not be on a personal FB page. I could understand if they were used on a scouting website or club FB page - fine. I would not be happy with this situation at all. It's simply not appropriate.

mmm: You'd think that, but it's not the case unfortunately <<bitter>>

I see loads of things that are on otherwise private pages because my friends have commented on them and I've also been victim to some of my posts being seen by people who I really don't want seeing them even though my settings are airtight because mutual friends have commented.

I'm very careful about what I post these days, normally inane shit but not many photos.

We have a facebook profile for our explorer unit. If the main leader wants to get in touch with them all he logs on and posts a status on it, quickest way to get through to them all! They also share videos and photos from camps/hikes/activities on it too as one of the older xplorers can access it too for that kind of thing.

Jestrin Fri 29-Mar-13 18:33:49

If it were me, and I felt uncomfortable, I would ask her to remove the photos off FB. Her Fb wall has nothing to do with the cub group, it is her private page and she should have sought your permission to use them. just because she is friends with your exMil doesn't mean a thing or that the cubs are abig part of her life. You are their mother and she should have asked you first.

In all honesty, she should have all parents permission to use their children's photos as others as said and even then the photos should be because the cub group did something worth recording.

EduCated Fri 29-Mar-13 18:42:27

Even if you have signed a permission form it is not ok. At least in Guiding I know that giving permission allows the photos to be used for promotion, newsletters, posters etc, NOT for personal FB pages. Absolutely inappropriate.

I was going to say that. Signed permission forms are covering photos being used for club purposes, not the leader's personal social networking site. I don't understand how anybody thinks it's okay that the leader has it on her personal page, permission forms or not!

ElphabaTheGreenAndBlacks Fri 29-Mar-13 19:19:08

What Sianilaa, EduCated and Confusedpixie said. Permission forms, which would relate solely to pack/unit activities, publications websites, FB pages etc have diddly squat to do with photos on a personal FB page. She shouldn't have them up - it's incredibly inappropriate.

CSIJanner Sat 30-Mar-13 04:08:10

Take screen shots to prove that the pictures are up and then report. Anyone who works with children should not e putting up these pictures and should know better, there's data protection issues, child protection issues etc. Give the scouting body a ring this morning

scouts.org.uk/contact-us/

If you're really worried about that big can of worms, then ask their advice without mentioning areas, cub no etc. Persnally I would as this person either needs training or demoting as she is seriously being inappropriate and as her profile isn't locked down, putting her cub group at risk.

RobotLover68 Sat 30-Mar-13 07:12:11

Cub Leader here - I wouldn't dream of putting cub pictures on my FB page - we do have a website for pictures but it is only accessible to parents - you should have signed a photo permission form - I wouldn't be happy with this situation as a Cub Leader or mother

Pantah630 Sat 30-Mar-13 08:02:16

At a scouting safeguarding course the other week we were told to be very wary of Facebook and if there's any chance a post or photo could be thought inappropriate not to post it. I wouldn't dream of posting pics of our Cubs at activities but would post congratulations if they'd won a competition, no pictures though unless just of other leaders.
Just because she is friends with exMIL is no reason to post pics of your sons and others in uniform at camps, etc.. Have a quiet word with both the Cub/Scout leader and your Scout groups Group Leader, they'll hopefully put all their leaders/helpers through the safeguarding course and have a word with her about privacy.

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