To give them NOTHING for their wedding?(263 Posts)
SIL has owed us money for years-repeated attempts have been made to get her to repay but she rarely does, MIL is same AND BIL.
It is an ongoing issue and I've posted before about it.
SIL is getting married soon (huge lavish event £££) and sent us an invite-within which was a request for no present just cash in a card....
She still owes me £310 so I said to dh I am not giving them a penny.
Its bad enough I have to go to the wedding as can't stand any of dh family BUT dcs like their aunty and I can understand dh wants to see his little sister get married although I draw the line at giving the greedy sods any money. DH says he would but I have said over my dead body.
YANBU. I wouldn't even go personally
Its brazen but makes.total sense and I would want to do this too, in your sitch.
YANBU - put in a note saying "lets call that £310 your wedding present. Best wishes. . . ."
I'd give them nothing, following such a demand, regardless of whether they owed me money or not!
Please do tell us the exact wording of the invite!
Tell DH you will sort the present and simply put in the card a cheque for £310, ripped up with a gift tag saying 'all debts wiped'
Clean fresh start for all
I'd be tempted to write in the card "you can keep the £310 you owe me in lieu of a gift" (since realistically you aren't going to get it back anyway!)
But I'm a cow
I hope you sort out the inlaw thing soon. I remember your posts.
Has your husband at least started to stand with you? I seem to recall he's been somewhat lacking a backbone?
No, YANBU. It's highly unlikely they'll say anything, but if they do, respond along the lines of "OK, take £50 off what you owe us." Do you/DH continue to lend them money, or are these historical debts?
How much would you give them if they didn't owe you anything?
I would write a note saying I would like to give you £50 as a present, you now owe me £260.
Urgh - I understand why you want to give nothing. Personally I'd give them a small sentimental but inexpensive present
and wish I hadn't
I'd tell them they could keep the tenner as a present but the £300 debt still stands
Absolutely not, do not give them anything.
What does your DH say?
Definitely no present. Whether you refer to the debt depends on how much you want to risk antagonising SIL.
Have you any chance of getting that 310 quid back?If not,I'd do what Casmama suggests.
I wouldn't give them a penny otherwise.Give them an open card,if they ask where the cash is (cheeky feckers would,too) act horrified and say it must have fallen out.All 310 quid of it.
Do not give them a penny. They have had enough of your money before the wedding to class as a gift.
How rude to put one in your invite!
I don't want to go but SIL asked dcs to be bridesmaid (dd1) flower girl (dd2) and pageboys (ds1+2) which they were thrilled about (she didn't ask me first before saying to them) and they are all excited.
I don't want to stop dcs seeing family or dh seeing them but they really really annoy me. I don't want to tell dcs how we go without a lot because aunty/nanny etc owe us so much money. Its tempting though sometimes...
£310 is a large gift though. If you really don't like them don't go to the wedding, that'll save them and you some money.
I agree, why not sell it to your DH as "Fresh start" for your relationship with SIL, say you know it's caused stress that this is hanging over the relationship between you, so you think as realistically she'll never pay it back, do as above, put a note in the card saying "our gift to you is to wipe the £310 debt you have with us".
Is there a free bar? You could try and drink yourself into profit
Give her £310 in monopoly money, the cheeky cow.
Historical debts-Dh used to lend them loads but now he doesn't even have his own bank card I'm a control freak now about money-had to be to stop him continuously lending to them.
I don't have invite to hand but it was a little insert a poem about not having to shop for a gift but to pop some money into a card and put it in a little wishing well they would have at the venue.....
Give them nothing but your best wishes. Enclose a note in a card saying you consider their debt now paid off.
NEVER lend to these people again.
Who is paying for the bridesmaid/ flower girl etc outfits?
I would write a gift card style letter "You owe us £310 - £_ = £___".
If there is cash in envelopes in the "wishing well" you could even repay your debt out of that (step too far??)
Oh bloody hell! Not a 'give us cash' poem as well?
If you really think you will never get the money back, write it off as a wedding present (or part of it).
I won't be paying for the outfits and they had better not even suggest it. I am assuming they will be paying!
Part of it? Are you suggesting they give more?!
Yeah- I wondered that SPB! Check whether all the shoes, tights, hair accessories etc are included- these have cost us a fortune in the past!
Don't put anything in the envelope other than a (nice) card- guests are under no obligation to give a gift anyway, and under the circumstances they should understand perfectly well, without you rubbing their noses in it on their wedding day.
I don't know about writing it in the wedding card though, seems a bit PA.
Maybe just say something before hand along the lines of a fresh start WRT the debt for all before the wedding.
Naturalbaby- I had considered that!!
You'd better clarify that OP. Make sure they pay. Otherwise it's you that will either have to cough up or have disappointed kids. Just ask when SIL needs ages/measurements so she can buy the outfits.
If she has owed you for years, then you're unlikely to get it back. Agree with the posters who've said enclose a note saying you are writing off their debt to you.
Hopefully they'll have a free bar and lots of nice food for you to make the most of?
YANBU some great ideas tho, i like hollyberrys
And cardi's for girls (wedding outfits usually be very thin, and British weddings usually being freezing with rain.
She is a minx.
You should double her debt purely because of the poem.
How about throwing a coin in the wishingwell? Like a 1p and your wish could be total debt repayment?
I wouldn't give them anything TBH.
My sister got married a couple of years back. She put one of those trashy poems in the invite, and it said something along the lines of we don't need anything, but would appreciate money if you really want to give us something, but you don't have to.
Now, over the years she has taken the piss out of me, I have helped her out with her DC, lent her stuff and never got it back, had her DC for weeks on end in the holidays etc and she has never helped me in return, despite promising. So I thought, bugger it and just bought her a card!
I meant write off part of the debt.
An invite to your special day
Is lovely but we will not pay
Just to watch you fritter away
What was ours the other day
Even though you asked in rhyme
Unpaid debts are still a crime
Since you owe us so much money
We don't find this very funny
That poem is brilliant I am so tempted...
Ohhhhhh pleeeeaaasseee use the poem!!
Changed my tune
Give them nothing. Don't give her any more money. She's not borrowing it.
Pure genius there shrinkingnora
Accept invitation, enjoy the day, take lots of pics of your DD flower girls.
Give no gift.
If asked why no money/ where's our dosh. Explain that as they owe you ££s you thought that they could have X£ taken off the amount owing. I wouldn't say a thing though, just wait until you're asked about it.
I'd recommend shitting in the wishing well.
Seriously though ariane, you had a thread not long ago about how utterly broke you were. You'd be mad to give them a gift.
That's why it angered me so much-we go without due to them not paying us back what they owe
My glasses have been at the optician since jan as havnt got the 300 to collect them, and SIL owes us about that so it pisses me off.
Don't give a cash gift and eat a sh*tload of vol au vents. (About £260 worth)
Is it a hotel stay? Can you get a luxury room at the venue, with room service, and tell reception on departure to invoice the happy couple?
ooooh i love a good wedding thread
Give the bastards NOTHING etc etc
No present or cash just a card.
If they mention the lack of a gift smile sweetly and tell them that you will write off the debt as a gift. I would do this as it is unlikely you will ever see the money owed to you again.
Agree about checking who is paying for bridesmaids dresses etc. Don't let them lumber you with a bill.
I wouldn't go. She should pay you back the money. Have nothing to do with her till she is shamed into it. I'd feel like telling everyone who asked me the reason I wasn't going to the wedding. But I wouldn't have the nerve to do this.Let your DH sort it out with his sister if your DC's are set on beng flowergirls. I'd be too angry about the money to be even civil to her I'm afraid.
Give them nothing. Greedy feckers. YANBU
I wouldn't be writing off £310! I'd be suggesting they give me the debt they owe me from the wedding money they get.
We need the £310!
Every week its a struggle to find ten pounds dof dd1 school lunches/pay for school trips etc. Time and time again I have offered them the opportunity to even repay 5 pounds a week but they ignore me.
MIL instructed me to not contact SIL about it as it was "stressing her out" and said she would repay it but hasn't bothered.They clearly want me to drop it and I can't.
Buy them a bottle of champagne and attach a card saying 'wishing you a wonderful future together. Here's a special bottle of something to celebrate. Rather then give money directly, DH and I have decided it would be much better to wipe clean the 300 debt. It may seem a bit naff but it makes good sense. All our love and best wishes xx and xx'.
Then go and enjoy the day and have fun
Here's how you can pay me now
Cause I need the cash you stupid cow
Spend a bit less on Wedding cake
And as for flowers, they can be fake
How about doing toasts with water?
and for bridesmaids you can choose one daughter
Walk to church and wear a sack
Just pay the fucking money back
As you need the cash back, write a note saying you have reduced their debt by £50 and they can pay the other £260 after their honeymoon. You can't afford to drop it and £300 is too generous a gift in your circumstances.It is a sorry state of affairs that SIL is having a lavish wedding while you are owed money by her andyou can't afford to pick up your glasses from the optician
Or Nora's poem will tell them for sure.
That made me laugh so much I woke ds2 (was bf him)!!!!
I REALLY want to use one of those poems, but I'd have to be there when she read it to see the look on her face!!
You owe me three hundred
You cheeky young mare
I'll write off your debt
I really don't care
I am so bitter about it, couple of weeks ago when DH told me she had gone wedding dress shopping I cried.
Our wedding last June was on a very small budget (reception at home, buffet etc) we just had NO money. To hear about SIL extravagant plans makes my blood boil and the invitation with all its extra bits like wishing well money request, menu for us to choose from (about 4 choices for each course-v expensive sounding) I just couldn't believe it.
I know I sound jealous I can't help it.
Ha ha grovel, at this rate I can give her a beautiful hand written book of bespoke poetry !
The wine and write off debt note sounds good. I think you have to let it go. Hopefully, you won't have to pay for the outfits.
She doesn't deserve the dirt from one of your shoes, let alone money as a wedding gift.
I'm feeling a little hurt for you that your husband disagrees - why isn't he supporting you?
Why do you have to do what MIL says?
Not having the money is stressing you out.
Keep asking for the money from SIL, every time she gets paid, if you know when that is, or the end of the month, which is when most people get paid. Also mention that, as she hopes to receive quite a lot of cash as wedding presents, that it will be a good opportunity for her to pay you back, then. Do it before the wedding.
Don't let your MIL make you feel guilty - SIL should feel guilty as she's the one who owes you money, and is choosing to spend it on herself, rather than paying her debts.
Your nuptials are vulgar, expensive and kitsch
You still owe me hundreds you selfish young bitch
your dh sounds like a sap tbh.
he's lending money out left right and centre to sil and she doesn't pay it back? he knows this would happen - you don't live with someone all your life without knowjng something like thst (their attitude about money)
talk to your sil. tell her you need her to pay thst mobey back and that you are happy to attend their wedding but you will not be paying towards the bridesmaids' oitfits nor giving s gift.
I keep asking SIL now ignores my texts/calls. MIL said she would take debt over from SIL due to it stressing her out, she paid me 30pounds about 2 months ago reducing it to 310 but since then has ignored me (and 2 weeks ago changed her mobile number so I can't text anymore)
They have a million excuses "we are waiting for a cheque to clear then will pay you" "we had to pay for xyz for one of the children" (sil has 2 daughters) etc etc etc.
Dh is a lot better now about all this but still a bit of a wimp when it comes to his family (hence them taking the piss for years and borrowing so much). I can't even trust him with his own bank card.
He still sees them/speaks to them.I havnt seen them in ages so not even sure what any plans are for the day. I avoid going to MIL house as she is just a bitch to me and its all I can do to bite my tongue and not tell her where to go.
WHY did you give her money you couldn't afford? Fuck that! And fuck writing off her debt with a bottle of champers on top.
Flowers and florists and champagne all day?
It's not a problem
My brother will pay
ariane, I instinctively like you for your OP. I'm not taking the piss... the (very bad) Muse just arrived..
The wishing well is a great idea
Your debt to us you can finally clear
Three hundred and ten you need to pay
Then we can relax and enjoy the day
One of you needs to stand over the wishing well and extract the cash you are owed as the cards are opened. Or stand next to the wishing well all night and explain that you are desperately wishing for your money back so that you can have the glasses you need back from the optician. Or spend all night blindly bumping into things and knocking them over, then explain to anyone who will listen why you can't see properly, extra marks for knocking things into SIL.
Can you help yourself to £310 worth of cash from the wishing well? Go on, I dare you.
Expat I didn't give any of them money, DH kept lending to them behind my back untill I got suspicious about finances being so dire and discovered what had been going on.
I think a lot of the loans they never expected to have to repay hence their reluctance.
I can't let it go.They need to learn.As a stupid 18yr old I was persuaded by MIL to take out a huge (8000) loan which she then refused to repay so I took her to small claims. The old cow was soon up to same tricks again though with Dh. They are all just leeches.
Incidentally, OP, I rather like the sound of your DH too. Men who care for dysfunctional family members are generally good men. Huge generalisation.
Actually you are perfectly within your rights to open all the envelopes in the "Wishing Well" <<boake>> count out £310 pounds from the other guests donations and fold it blatantly into your top pocket.
Just to add a touch of derision to the proceedings when you approach the
thieving happy couple, peel off a tender from the wishing well fund, fold it into a square, pop it into the cleavage of her wedding dress and give her a good natured slap on the cheek.
If more than 10 guests are coming they'll easily raise the readies.
If I had the guts I'd help myself to it.
I have visions of myself all in black with a mask and cape taking cards from the well when nobody is looking. I think I've gone mad its all got to me finally.
I love this thread. "Peel off a tender and give her a slap!" I agree! Let us do it! When and where is it? Lets drink em dry.
Although OP I feel sick for you. Seriously, send the bailiffs round during the service.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Put an envelope in the well (after recovering your cash):
You owe us big money
You stupid young cow
We said you'd repay us
And now you know how!
Don't give them any money for their wedding. I'd feel so uncomfortable owing someone that much money and not making any attempt to pay it back.
The poems in this thread are superb. nora has made me laugh more than once.
I don't blame you, OP. I would also find this very difficult to let go. I'm not sure why you should be expected to.
As for the original question: hell no YANBU!
This has cheered me up so much I might just print the thread and stick it in the well!
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Stick it in the well!
Have you seen my money?
I'm on the hunt
So please pay it back
TurnipCake, you've raised the bar. I laughed.
Keep pestering her for the money. Start the process for small claims if you have evidence of her acknowledging the debt. If you don't have evidence of her agreeing to the debt email her about it to get some acknowledgement.
If she has not paid you back by a week before the wedding tell her she has 2 choices. Either she pays up or you will stand by the wishing well and tell everyone that she's not paid you back even though you have had to go without. Don't beg. shame her into it.
I shall await your thread about her trying to get you to pay for the DC's outfits.
go with wafflys ideaa. you need your glasses.
How about getting a tee shirt printed with "the scheming bridal bitch owes me £310" and wearing it in all the photos?
I agree with DontmindifIdo - but you need to make it clear that the "bank" is no longer open for business....if they're that brazen they may come asking again.
shrinkingnora on the basis of your 22:21:33 composition you should be working for Hallmark Brilliant!
OP, I can totally understand how bitter this makes you feel. I had a falling out with a friend last year who had borrowed a couple of hundred quid a while before. At the time I had been in a good position to lend the money, but income had since dropped drastically so I grew more and more resentful that friend apparently wasn't going to pay me back. What made it worse was that I was looking at friend's comments on their online networks (I know, I know) where they were going on about going out for expensive meals, to the cinema etc. I emailed them to ask for the money and was told they were strapped for cash so would need to spread it out over quite a few instalments. That really annoyed me when I could see how much they were spending on going out!
I would certainly not give them anything. I think there is trouble ahead over the girls' bridesmaid outfits, too. They sound like the kind of people to ask you to pay for that. Would your DDs be very disappointed if that didn't come off in the end?
Do you think you can bring your DH properly on side about this? It sounds very difficult for you to have him unwilling to take a stronger line on the money.
Actually, the Greek Orthodox tradition is to pin money onto the bride's dress. After a family wedding, my uncle's family watched the video and realized that one guest kept approaching the bride, and ostentatiously pinning money to the front, then nipping round the back and helping themselves to more than they'd added.
Stand by the wishing well and help yourself. Though loads of people hate giving money so you may be disappointed
All this talk of the Wishing Well is making me think of the Simpsons episode where they do a celeb charity song for the little boy everyone thinks is trapped down a well. You could stand next to the well and sing it at the ceremony.
There is no way I will be paying anything for bridesmaid and flower girl outfits or page boy suits they can absolutely get lost.
If they pay then fine I will go and keep quiet for the day for DH and dcs sake but there will be NO money in a card.
If they start being idiots about anything in the next few weeks then me and dcs just won't go.I can't stop DH going as I know he will want to but I don't have to.
And I found the invite here is the poem from it :
This will save you shopping and buying
Here's an idea you might like trying
Come to our wedding and wish us well
And make some use of our wishing well
Just put some money in a card
Now make a wish... But shh don't tell
Now that we have saved you all that fuss
We hope you will come and celebrate with us
Please don't be offended by this type of request
Our day will be complete having you as our guest.
It really made me annoyed.And they've done a pretty good job of saving me from shopping and buying recently as I HAVE NO MONEY BECAUSE OF THEM! I hate them !
Well at least the last line let's people off.
By MY interpretation anyway.
I sound so bitter I know I do.
I can't help but resent them.I used to get on so well with SIL untill all these issues over money. She always seemed so nice and I just feel like DH was used.
I don't think you should give them money. Maybe just a normal old fashioned wedding gift like wine glasses or towels.
But it sounds like she isn't going to pay you back. I have had this happen (though not for quite as much) and in some ways it's easier to write it off than to keep chasing it and feeling frustrated. In my case the friend in question clearly had no intention of paying me back (despite being a well-paid doctor) and I got bored of asking/hinting. I wrote it off but made a mental note to never get myself in that situation again (although just got re-fleeced over a shared pizza scenario, dammit!)
I love this thread. I sometimes wish MN would do a book or a topic just for wedding threads like this ( I know there's a wedding topic, but that doesn't get the best threads), just to read when I need cheering up. There was a thread ages ago about a bridesmaid being forced into buying really expensive shoes, when she already owned a pair almost exactly the same. The cheek of the bride was brilliant, I've often wondered if the bridesmaid gave in in the end.
Tell SIL you will give her money in a card, when she pays you the money she owes. Do not write off the debt. Oh, she's driving me crazy, and I don't even know her.
Dh whole family are just awful.
Always have money for things they WANT. Never pay their bills.
OMG, I've just caught up to the poem, that's amazing. The bit about not offending is the best, who in there right mind wouldn't find that offensive ?
That poem is shockingly bad, to add insult to injury. It doesn't even scan properly.
Your dh needs to let his sister know you won't be buying outfits for the children asap, because it sounds as though she is the type of person to order them and bill you (and then tell the kids it's your fault they can't be bridesmaids etc).
Don't give them money.
The week after the wedding ask them for your money back "as they will have cash from the wedding presents".
Maryz you've got a good point there. Could one of you clever poem writers do one about looking forward to being repaid with the money they'll get ?
OK I had no idea when I posted that you were in desperate need of the money, I assumed you could afford to write it off.
I'd be tempted to take a much harder line. "I need to collect my glasses from the optician but cannot afford to pay them because of the money we have lent you in the past. Therefore, please can you pay the optician - where should they send the invoice?"
You could always go and help yourself to some of the money in the wishing well!
Poems in wedding invites asking for cash = awful! We've just had one sent to us - really made me It's just not manners!
OP - read the whole thread, and have changed my mind about 3 times as i went about my advice. I think you should try to think of this with just cold hard facts to save yourself upset from now on.
1. Give nothing as a present for the wedding. Don't pay for outfits etc. Just go and have a nice time - wish them well etc.
2. assume that you are not going to get your money back without legal input. You say you have taken your MIL to a small claims court in the past - i think you'll have to do this now with your SIL.
3. once the wedding is over calmly tell your DH this is what you are going to do. No need to guilt trip him anymore - just get on with it.
4. have as little to do with them as possible in the future!
Good luck OP.
When I took MIL to smaLl claims years ago I was on IS so got legal aid and it was worth it as it was a large amount (8000).
I'd have to pay now and for 310 is it worth it? I spend more than that in the process and I just need my money back
ariane5 don't give them anything at all and if they won't reply to texts write a letter telling her you must have the money back and how it sickens you that they're having this lavish wedding when you had to make do at your own. Be strong and if she kicks off tough. I'd even threaten small claims.
We're all behind you.
Just threaten it, she knows you've done it before.
I'd write "Your wedding present is that I will write off £50 of the £310 you owe us. So now you only owe us £260. Best wishes for a happy married life."
Card in the well, post it note inside with "I wish..." followed by one of these marvellous poems.
Just read the poem. How cringey
Actually I've changed my mind, she will have some decent cash flow after the wedding if she's got a bloody wishing well (and that poem is a crime against language) and you should ask her to pay you back then.
You will need to be extremely pushy, but you could drop by after the wedding and say, look, I need to pick up my glasses, can you please reimburse me the money you owe. And just hang around until she does so. Chances are she'll be hungover/exhausted and will give in just to get some peace .
Or you could warn her in advance. Ring her up and say that not only will you not be adding to her slush fund but you'll be expecting your debt clear. Leave the MIL out of it, go straight to the source!
Why are they having a lavish wedding when they owe you, and probably others, money?! YANBU. You won't see your money again so don't give them a penny.
And I second Land of the Tute's suggestion.
Do not explain a thing. Get a reasonably priced wedding card and write best wishes to them, do not make any comment at all. Do not give a present or money.
Believe me, without any nastiness, they will get the message!
Oh ariane - you really have struck it unlucky with both your family and your ILs, haven't you?!
You need to stand firm, but I can now understand why you are finding everything so overwhelming.
Definitely don't give your SIL any money, and you need to tell them that you will NOT be paying for the outfits for your DC.
Blimey, I opened this up expecting to say you were being really unreasonable but no, YANBU at all. No way would I give them any money.
I do suspect they'll want you to pay for the kids outfits though...
You took MIL to small claims court - wow relationships really have broken down. Don't blame you though.
The poems throughout the thread are magic and have made me laugh out loud and probably be late for my 10am meeting as I couldn't stop reading!!!
Oh god don't bloody go. Don't let your kids be bridesmaids either - they won't care really, and you WILL end up paying for this. You only got married last year and had a small wedding because that's all you could afford - why go along with the stupid act that your SIL has to have an Alexis Colby wedding paid for by others because she fleeces everyone and lives above her means.
Fuck being nice and keeping the peace because she is fahmily and your kids are excited. You are not the bad guy in this - she is. You haven't had your specs for 3 months fgs.
No more presents for you, you're down on your luck-a
I have enough of your freeloading you cheeky motherfuck-a
Bloody hell - I'm not surprised you're bitter in the circumstances. How dare that arrogant bitch send you (of all people) a crass poem like that ?! This thread has been very amusing with ideas for revenge and back-in-your-face alternative poems, but really, underneath all that is the fact this cow has stolen money from you - yes, that is what this is when you "borrow" and have no intention of paying it back - and in the meantime, your children are going without.
You say you have no contact with DH's family - and I don't blame you - but seeing as he does, he should be piling on the pressure about this every time he sees them. Sod the "stressing out" - she fucking well deserves to be stressed out. And if you do end up attending this sickening show-off wedding I wouldn't give her a thing personally - see if she has the brass neck to comment on that later. I'd also have no qualms - if she'd not repaid me by then - to confront her at the reception and sod who might overhear such as her new in-laws, workmates or friends (if she has any). I wouldn't give a flying fuck if I "ruined" the "best day of her life" by demanding the cash I was owed out of her wanky wishing well - after all I'd have no plans to see her again. Which might sound harsh and hard but what's the alternative ? .... for my own peace of mind, I might decide to write off the debt (very reluctantly) thereafter if she obviously wasn't going to pay up but no way would I go down without a murmur when my kids were suffering while she has the audacity to not only spend - presumably - thousands - on her "special day" but also to demand more money from me into the bargain.
You have saved us shopping and buying
Paying back debts is something worth trying
We'll see you at your wedding and <boak> at your well
Give you money, like hell
We'll wipe your debt to us off, it's our gift to you
With your wishing well you can start paying back others too
Now we have saved you all that (£310) fuss
We'll leave your wedding on a bus......because that's all we can afford you silly cow!
That's the best I could come up with!
now is the time to get off your arses
I need the money now to pay for my glasses
oh and btw we won't pay for bridesmaid dresses
nor shoes, cardigans, flowers or styling their tresses
How about a haiku?
Selfish grasping bride
Owes cash to sister in law
Debt should be paid soon
Ariane, what does your DH say about getting the money back? I seem to remember from previous threads that you've had big fights about this before. Is he any better at standing up to them than he was? Has he asked SIL/MIL for the £300?
Text the SIL:
Hi SIL - just seen that you're asking for money instead of wedding gifts, that is so thoughtful of you! I know you've been worrying about how to pay me back that £310, MIL told me it's been stressing you out, and now with your wedding money you'll be able to pay us back no probs! I knew you would sort this out somehow - thanks so much hun, we've been so broke it'll be great to get paid back at last! love Ariane xx
How are they paying for the wedding?
(With the cash gifts?)
People like that piss me off so much.
Can you tell her the wrong sizes for BM dresses-& take them back for a cash refund??
Is there anything that they might be buying re the wedding that you can recoup money on?
As for writing off the 310GBP as a wedding gift-words fail me.
Really-do people buy presents to that value??
I know how you feel and completely understand the bitterness (unfortunately - bastard thieving BIL and his grabby wife)
Obviously, you mustn't give them anything for their wedding or ever again.
My guess is that you will never get your money back as people like that do not have any shame at all. It is hard for normal people to understand that. If I borrowed money I would have to pay it back and if I couldn't I would be mortified with embarrassment. People like your SIL (and my BIL and wife) literally dont care. They have no morals at all.
I love the poems and suggestions on this thread. I have read every word ofthe poems - they are great.
I love the suggestion to drink yourself into a profit at the wedding bar
I avoid my BIL and wife as much as i can and when we do see them we can't say anything as it would upset my DH's lovely and very old DM. Bloody family dynamics!
Someone reading this thread must have put one of those poems in their wedding invitations.
Do you think: awwwww I didn't realise I did such a grasping thing
Or: Ha ha, suckers!
FauxFox's text idea is good. Would they respond to that or have they no shame whatsoever?
You could always enclose a filled out small claims form and enclose it with a note in the card suggesting that they settle the debt amicably following the wedding or unfortunately you will be forced to take official action as you cannot afford to let this one go at this point.
Families bring out the best when there is a wedding around!
One SIL stole money(lots) from a family member, I did not attend her wedding in protest, although the rest did.
Other SIL did not invite anyone but that SIL, her DH and parents to hers, even though everyone could have attended it.
Still gets in my craw now.
Do what the hell you like, everyone else does!
Dh still doesn't really get involved I can tell he is desperate for me to just drop itm
If I mention the money his face falls and he says he's too busy/tired to talk about it.
MIL has now changed her number so can't get in touch with her but I could text SIL although that will immediately have MIL on the warpath after she warned me off speaking to SiL about it as "stress makes her ill".
What pisses me off is that DH will be working on monday as we need the money but they will all have their bank holiday.They couldn't care less about me or dh or dcs.
I wish though that DH would actually tell them to repay it. He has phoned a couple of times but got same old excuses as me but he didn't follow it up.
I suggest you do text SIL-and tell MIL if she hadn't changed her number you wouldn't have to.
Did they know that your husband wouldn't make as fuss about repayments & that's why they asked him?
If so, does he realise that they don't actually give a stuff about him & just use him when he can be of benefit to them?
He can't help himself, he's lovely but an absolute wimp when it comes to his family. He doesn't want to fall out with them but there seems to be no options left its either let the money go or argue.
The only reason I'd go is to ensure your wet DH doesn't give her money. NO chance of buying bridesmaids dresses. None.
If he can't help himself-then he needs to get help so that he can.
He'd rather see you & his children struggle than say no to Mummy & sister?
That's quite screwed up, isn't it?
They will HAVE to pay for the dresses/suits as at our wedding (on dh insistence) SIL daughters were flower girls and we bought their dresses.well dh paid as I was grumpy about it (but I chose and they were slightly unflattering!)
I only wanted our dcs to be bm/pb but dh said it was his family too and they should do it.
ariane, the real problem I'm starting to see is that your husband is a bit of a fuckwit.
He has got huge issues with his family. He either cannot see what they are doing or he is fuuly aware but is too scared to fall out with them.
He just wants a quiet life and sadly he won't be getting one. I know that I irritate him every day going on and on about it but I can't just let that money go.
MIL is root of problem.when Dh was a teenager he was run over and v badly injured-got compensation (£12000) and guess who had the lot?......
Nothing has changed.they are all leeches.
They don't like me (think DH "could have done better" etc etc).
I should imagine that they won't pay for your children's outfits & then you'll be the bad guy who has prevented your children being BMs & PBs.
"but dh said it was his family too and they should do it." Oh dear!
He is well and truly under their spell.I am so tempted to text SIL and ask for the money but I know she will immediately tell MIL who will be fuming and then will phone DH.
I don't expect I will get the money back but causing a big argument might cheer me up a bit and then I can see whose side Dh will be on!
Well you'll set yourself up for a fall as it's pretty clear whose side he's on!
TBH, this is the sort of thing I could leave someone over.
I'd have no respect for them.
Of course it might not be entirely his fault if has grown up with this being the norm.
But if he's not prepared to do anything about it...
What does he get from them?
Does he enjoy their company?
In effect he has two families now - his immediate family which is you and the kids and his wider family. Guess which one should take priority - and that would be the case even if his wider family were lovely but seeing as they're manipulative lying stealing wankers there's absolutely no contest - or shouldn't be. I can't believe he prefers to upset you, stress you out and let his kids go without rather than confront them. Okay - his being more assertive still might not get you anywhere, these people are shameless, but it would make you feel heaps better knowing he was just as angry as you, on your side and trying all he could to get the money back.
But in the absence of him doing anything sod stressing that bitch - you have every right to text her, write to her or whatever as much as you want as she has your money! Tell her that you are stressed and feeling ill with worry, that your children need things you can't afford to buy them, that your DH is working all hours to try to make ends meet. I don't know how she's funding her wedding but there's no way she couldn't afford to pay you back £300 odd if she's spending thousands on the do. Call her on that. Threaten the small claims - even if bluffing - you've done it before and tell her that she'll be liable for costs too if you're successful.
Just makes me angry that you should have to deal with this at all when he "lent" money and is completely unwilling to tackle it. Why does he think his sister's more worthy of this money than his own kids ?
Let fuming MIL call DH. So what. At that point he should be telling her some home truths - like how SIL has lied about money and has made no attempt to discuss a repayment plan, how his children are going without, how anyone who can spend several thousands on a wedding can afford to pay back £300, like asking her why she thinks SIL is somehow entitled to his money, like telling her that his wife is completely stressed out, ill and worried, and so on and so on. I'd want to hear her justify the situation.
Not that it's any of MIL's business.
Send the text that Faux fox suggested. Don't write off the debt as a wedding present!
I pondered and pondered
And then took a punt
I picked up the phone
And texted the c**t
"Your daughter's a scrounger
It's really not funny
The feckless young cow
Won't give me my money"
MiL was dismissive
That much I could tell
So I'm picketing the wedding
And I'll piss in the well
Yes send Faux's text.
Op-do you find you spineless dh sexually attractive? you cant surely?. Honestly I have had my own mil problems but finally put my foot down last year and dh has been much better since then understanding that dcs and myself now come first.
I doubt very much your dh will ever see the light if he has already allowed his mum to rip you off for £8000-I would leave hin tbh-he will never put you or dcs before them and you will grow to massively resent him for it.
As your SIL will find out at the wedding, the vows to your husband are "forsaking all others" that is pretty all encompassing. You come first. Not SIL.
My retort to the crabby MIL would be "and do you know how stressful it is to have no spare money because your own family have taken it? Well I feel pretty sick myself."
Certainly don't buy any dresses for bridesmaids. Insist on matching new shoes and hair pieces etc.
To be honest they sound like such a bunch of twunts I'd be tempted to just not turn up on the day. The entire family came down with salmonella or something.
Then they'll know the feeling of having money p*ss through their fingers, not a nice experience.
Ariane - I think you're being a bit unfair about your DH. You say he won't stand up to his family, but you won't stand up to yours either.
BOTH your families are sucking you dry - his financially, yours emotionally.
True, but DH situation much easier to untangle with a few words, all he needs to do is ask for our money back they will either say yes or no. The emotional issues within my family are horrendous I wouldn't know where to start with that .
From an outside perspective, yours is just as easy to untangle.
A few words such as 'no I can't be there to look after you tomorrow, DSis' will bring exactly the same reaction as 'we want our money back mum' from your DH I suspect. The emotional fall out is the same for both of you.
I wish I could just take you both away from all of them!!!!
We just seem to be stuck in a continuous cycle of bad luck, bad people and constant illness.
No wonder I eat so much chocolate each day its all I've got to cheer me up!
poems asking for money are so fecking twee. Icky girly namby pamby doesn't have the decency to ask out-right so writes a naff poem
My SIL's a grabby twunt
Who doesn't repay what she's oweing
She's driving me crazy
She's so effing lazy
I just want to give her a shoeing
I have the in-laws from hell
SIL wants dosh in a well
To pay for the wedding
That I am so dreading
I just want my husband to yell
You need a return poem. How about:
^Thanks for the invite, we will gladly accept
Great poem that you wrote, you can write off your debt!
We've checked our accounts, three one 0's what we need
We'll now write it off and move on from your greed
Have a great wedding day!!^
def NO money.
i'd struggle to go myself. but i do suspect that they'll send you a bill for the dresses.
Text the sil. If you then get an argument, ask your
wimp dh whether his children having food and clothes or his sister having everything is more important?
I would speak to her and casually drop in how you're really pleased she's finally addressing her financial responsibilities and requesting money for her wedding present, and ask whether you should help yourself to your share of the money on the day or if you should pop round after the wedding to collect it.
What will happen is sil will pay for the bm and pb outfits. Then tell you you owe her 310 for them so you're quits. Bet you.
I agree with everything catsmother said about a page or so back. Well put.
I spoke to DH, told him that unless debt is repaid there will be nothing in the wedding card and that he needs to make a choice as to whether he will stand up to his family about these debts.
He said he can't do it that I have to ask for the money back.
I explained that if I do that he has to be prepared to back me up if they then go to him complaining.
I tried to get hold of SIL.Nothing.
Tried MIL, she spun a story about splitting up with dp tdh confirmed its a lie) having no money etc the usual stuff.
I politely explained we cannot afford dcs school trips/school lunches and would like repaying.She has yet again promised she will pay it on Monday.I'm not psychic but mon will come and go and I know there will be no money from her.
DH says they just don't want to pay it and however much I ask they won't be any more likely to.
Your DH is beginning to piss me off now, sorry OP, how wet. He needs to deal with this. They are not superhuman, just ordinary
tossers he sounds pathetic.
It looks to me like you have 2 choices I'm afraid. You either write off the money and try to make peace with yourself whilst you struggle financially or you issue a small claim.
The cow clearly has no intention of ever repaying you and will keep stringing you along in the hope you'll either give up or you're DH will talk you out of chasing. Hateful.
You'll get your costs awarded if you issue a SC. It may be the emotionally cheaper option in the long run. Once you have the money back, I'd distance myself.
You poor lass, no one deserves to be related to those leeches x
'You now owe me two sixty,
The rest is your gifty'
The last 4 times I've attempted to even talk toi him about it he's been too tired/busy etc I said to him tonight "I need to sort out this debt and wedding situation can I talk to you now? If not what day and what time as it has got to be sorted out"
I asked him to speak to them, he wouldn't so its left to me and I can just imagine the conversations now that he will have behind my back "I wouldn't make you pay it mum but dw is insisting I'm sorry etc etc etc). He really wants me to forget about it and I will not.
I havnt even paid for dd school trip and lunches, I am now getting in debt through no fault of my own when they are sitting around planning more 'extras' for this bloody wedding.
this is dire
i think your dh is incapable of dealing with this right now so i do think it's up to you unfortunately. i would send your sil a text saying you are very upset and stressed out as your kids don't have money for lunch and trips. you want your money back NOW.
Small Claims Court?
In the meantime I would not go to the wedding nor let my DC be bridesmaids, and I would tell SIL & MIL why.
If that is the case then don't go, don't let the kids go and tell your h he can go if he wants.
I'd make a real pest of yourself in the mean time and call the mil on Monday to ask where the money is. And keep on.
I know how toxic they all are BUT dcs like them.They are too young to understand all they know is that when they see aunty/nanny they are kind to them and they like them.
Dcs are excited about the wedding, all they know is that they get to dress up/have fun. I don't know what to do. I can't justify stopping them seeing dcs, they are their family (as much as I hate that fact).I suppose I have to hope that dcs grow up and quickly realise what DH family are really like.
It would be easy for me to say to dh family no seeing dcs but I don't want to use them as a weapon.I don't know what to do.I just don't want in a few years time for one of dcs to be getting out a loan for MIL like I was tricked into at 18.
they are tocic twats.you know this and yet you are happy to let your kids be around them.your dc will grow up knowing that you and your dh are doormats.it will.effect them and yet you persist in allowing them to dictate to you? man the fuck.up.
Ariane, I have read this thread and the one about your DSis. I feel so much sympathy for you - you have so much to deal with with the DCs illnesses and BOTH sets of families . On the plus side, how lovely to have 4 DCs, you seem a very strong person and your relationship with dh is still on, despite the pressures around you, so there are many blessings in your life still I believe that if you start working thru some of these issues, you WILL resolve them.
In this situation, can you start by asking your DCs if THEY want to go to the wedding and go from there? I agree with the posters that you WILL end up paying out (weddings are always expensive for everyone) and I can't imagine that you would want to be there for a second. DH can always attend solo, while you enjoy a nice day out with the kids.
I also must be a complete bitch but have you thought about actively sabotaging her wedding? I personally would be happy to tell her florist, venue, dress supplier, etc etc that she has owed you a significant amount of money for x amount of time with no prospect of repayment and you will shortly be pursuing her through the Small Claims Court and even CCJs. As lots of wedding suppliers are small businesses, perhaps they might not be so keen to supply her, knowing this? I am a bitch, aren't I?
In my head I would stand by their naff-as-hell wishing well and count £310 out in full view of the whole party.
But of course in real life I would button lip, let dcs enjoy and then try not to engage with them again.
BUT I would absolutely NOT give them anything.
I am by no means happy that dcs see them with Dh sometimes but I don't know what else to do. If I stop all contact completely then I will be stopping them seeing members of their family and will dcs then one day resent me for that as to be honest if I were to stop contact with every toxic member if our families dcs would never see anybody.
The debts are a big horrible issue but an adult issue, it does affect dcs as they go without but I do not want to be saying to an 11,6,3 and nearly 1 year old that "nanny and aunty are making you go without x,y,z as although true I don't want to upset/confuse them.
For now if dh wants to pop in to see MIL with them for a coffee and dcs play for a bit that's fine.I will never go and if they ask why I WILL tell them and hope in the end they make their own choices.
You should write SIL a letter asking for the money she owes you, throw in some scary legal jargon, state that if she does not repay you before a certain date (a reasonable amount of time after receiving the letter), you will be forced to take legal action. Then send it recorded delivery so she has to sign for it and you will have proof she has received it and therefore acknowledged your request.
I know you say you can't afford to take her to court, but hopefully this will make her take you seriously and she'll pay you back rather than risk it.
"I asked him to speak to them, he wouldn't so its left to me and I can just imagine the conversations now that he will have behind my back "I wouldn't make you pay it mum but dw is insisting I'm sorry etc etc etc)."
I really couldn't stay with him.
Also, how did DH give her the money? If it was by bank transfer or similar you will have evidence of it.
You know what? Children can dress up at home and have fun. I don't think you should even go to this wedding. I understand why your DH cannot demand the money back- he is too used to having to give them everything he has, I don't think he's 'spineless', I think they've just worn him down, and conditioned him. You can't change that.
However weddings still cost money- you will need something to wear (both adults, let alone the children, and I know they will leave you in the lurch for the DC's outfits, I know it!), you will need to travel to get there, hairdresser for you possibly, etc etc etc I don't see how you would get away with spending nothing, and that puts you even more out of pocket.
How can family bear to see you go without your specs?
What a terrible situation all round.
It is horrible.I just don't want to carry on this toxic cycle.its coming from every person and I don't want to be stopping dcs seeing people/spouting hatred about family members (even though they are all horrible) and making dcs unhappy/bitter and then they become toxic peiple too.
Sometimes I wonder if we should move far far away and start again just us, then it wouldn't be an issue as toxic family would be miles away and not able to see dcs anyway.
They really don't deserve to see your children though.
They treat you like shit.
If they weren't family, I doubt that you'd bother with them.
Yes they do treat me like shit.
I am struggling with things though-i am very aware what a terrible environment dcs are in, they all have serious health issues and are surrounded by toxic people. I struggle day to day with how to make sure they don't turn out badly.
I want them to be well adjusted and happy but I am not happy and having never really been in a 'normal'environment myself I don't know what to do for the best.
I remember all too well when dd1 was a baby and dh and mil took me to court for contact that the court and cafcass were adamant that unless there was a child protection issue then dcs should ALWAYS see family and that arguments between adults should not affect any children I am trying to go by that advice but it is very difficult.
But I didn't think that GPs had any rights & that it's up to parents.
Your husband took you to court?
jeez what fuckwits.
but your dh was involved?
Your husband took you to court? Was that a typo? Because if not, then your troubles go well beyond £310 and a wedding gift.
I've only come
To have some lunch
And maybe dinner too
For that will save me
Of what I've lent to you.
In fact my dear,
I'm really skint
And poorly sighted too
So I'm planning on
A fishing trip
Well it's very over due...
Yes when dd1 was 8 weeks old (she is now 11) they took me to court as I had refused contact due to non payment of the 8000pound loan mIl had tricked me into getting out on her behalf.It dragged on till dd1 was 2.5 yrs and was horrible.
MIL would constantly be hammering on my door with court letters etc.was an awful time.
Your husband too? How come you don't hate his guts?
and you were living with your dh? who was taking you to court?
And how did the £800 loan come about?
Good god ariane, at first I thought your husband was a bit of a wet lettuce but now I think he's just absolutely vile
You and your children deserve so much more than these awful people
Your current husband took you to court?
I don't understand. Does it go like this?
She got you to take out a loan for her?
She wouldn't pay it back?
You stopped letting her see your child?
She took you to court? Supported by your husband? If so, what sort of support? Witness statement? Money?
Is there anything good about your relationship OP? I thought it was already pretty shitty that he doesn't defend you and talks about you behind your back, but he actually sided with your mother and took you to court??!!
What on earth made you stay with someone who could treat you so appallingly?
I thought I recognised your username I remember the thread where you mentioned the mil loan. Why do you put up with this shit? Your Dh has never put you first ever. This will never change
I just had a quick look on citizens advice and it looks like it would cost about £100 to file a claim in the small claims court. Would you be able to pull that together? I think I'd rather be £100 down but get something from them than let them get away with owing me all that money.
Unreal! He is a major momma's boy. Controlled or what?
If you want a kickass letter doing to SIL please pm me. I would take great pleasure in it landing on her doormat the day before the wedding....
If you didn't get the £800 back from your mother-in-law, then I doubt you'll get the £310 back from your sister-in-law. I think you need to get very in touch with your anger. You need new glasses. You are broke. Your kids are missing out. Think of that and draw strength. Say no now. To every request that puts you out or inconveniences you. Do not let your husband have any money at all because he is an idiot. Hide away money because, one day, you will want to get out of there. Get a better paid job. Do everything you can to enrich you and your children. Make it clear that you will not be paying anything for the outfits.
I met DH when I was 18, after a few months I got pregnant (I was living at home with my mum) She hit the roof and I ended up getting forced into having a termination followed by a complete breakdown.I then moved in with dh (then dp) at his mums.
Whilst there she persuaded me to obtain a £8000 loan as she couldn't get one and needed to pay off loan sharks.In my depressed state I was vulnerable and agreed.
I got pregnant again but suffered with HG and was hospitalised, MIL stopped paying loan back, DH and I argued about it and I split up with him and moved back home.
I had dd1 and that's when they took me to court, all the letters were signed DH name in MIL writing, she phoned all the time and when I changed numbers she camr to my mums house. I only saw dh in court, it was obvious he was being pushed into it by MIL.
Contact was supervised but they kept taking me back to push for full weekends etc unsupervised.This went on till dd1 was 2.5.
In the end dh gave up and dropped all the court stuff as it made me ill and was affecting dd. His mum tried to pursue it but couldn't.
Dh and I got back together again, split up again then sorted things out.I took MIL to small claims for loan money and she paid a small amount every month for years to clear it.
Not much more really to tell.We now have 4dcs and got married last June. We actually had a HUGE terrible argument on 29 dec (ds1 bday) last year-I posted as was going to end it completely, DH left it was horrendous but 2 days later dd2 was seriously unwell in hosp and DH came back as I couldn't cope with 4 disabled dcs on my own and with dd2 now diabetic it was too much.
Since then we have just been muddling along, every day is taken up with dcs unwell/money issues.Really I don't have much of a life and no real support hence why I post on minute so much about things
Excuse me muscling in here. Your dc need a happy mum, first and foremost. And I'm sure that CAFCASS would agree.
This situation is making your life difficult and adding stress when your children have health issues. Yes, they are adult issues, and as one of the adults, you need to take control of them. Ok, they would like to go to the wedding and see their family. Decide whether or not you're going. You have very valid reasons not to. Then, tell your chn of the decision and that it's final. That way, they know whats going to happen. You, the adult, will have set a boundary, no different to any other a parent sets. You don't need to go into why or the debt etc. just that you can't afford the expense. You are also teaching them the value of money and that you can't have everything. It would be irresponsible of you to get yourselves into debt in order to attend this wedding (I know you know this, but want to lay it on thick just in case you're still in two minds).
Then you address the contact issue as a separate thing. It sounds as though DH has been emotionally blackmailed for years. The only person's behaviour you can change is yours. Make it as stress free for yourself as possible. That maybe letting DH take the chn over to mil for a bit. This will also evolve in time, especially if the money issue remains unresolved.
I totally agree with your feeling about the money. Do not even consider giving them a gift, even if you do go to the wedding. If they ask, tell them why! I would also continue to chase the money. It's not £20, it's your glasses or half s terms school dinners or school uniform or 2/3 supermarket shops.
Please, please put you and your first. Make decisions based on that. DH may need more practice at this, but if you are consistent and as calm as possible, then he will learn that you won't back down.
Very best of luck. Please let us know what happens.
It's no way to live, honey. That's for sure. I think you need to make a plan.
Isn't it your DHs responsibility not to give away your kids dinner money? How does he feel about his own kids going without?
Can you go to CAB? Find out what sort of practical help/funding you would be entitled to if you left? You sound like you have been manipulated and bullied into submission. You don't have to put up with their crap and you deserve better.
Please don't take this the wrong way. Are you getting support from social services? It sounds as though you should be eligible for a family support worker or something similr through a disabled children service or charity.
Had a SS ref years ago but no help offered. Children with disabilities team won't help-dcs are apparently "disabled but not severely enough to meet the criteria" so we are in no mans land. They get dla but that's all the help we get no actual practical help although have had a lovely home start lady coming for last 2 weeks ev wed am but that will only be till end april as they have lost their funding.
Ariane not so long ago you were so broke that you were looking for a food bank.
Your DH has stinking attitude if he can't stand up to his mother and sister seeing you and his DISABLED kids going without the basics (and yes,you need the specs).
Definitely NO MONEY for SIL and get pushy about the debt,no writing off,you NEED it.Sod MIL,SIL and
not so "D" H upset.People like this have no morals at all,they don't care.
If the kids won't go to the wedding-tough luck.
Don't give them any money,they sponged you enough.
I agree, no money or presents. Make sure you get it confirmed that they will be paying for the children at the wedding. Then go to town - get that money back.
I would also seriously consider how much contact I wanted my children to have with them. These people are not good for you, your children or your family.
£310 is too much to give this woman. Give her £20 in a card for wedding and call her on her return from honeymoon to arrange a payment plan for the £310
Ariane, I know you need this money back desperately, but I think you're going to have to let it go. Your DH lent the money out, and by the sounds of it, he didn't make it clear that it was a loan that needed repaying. If he refuses to ask for it back, then it really gives the impression he gave the money as a gift, not a loan. And in that case, it's not SIL/MILs fault that they haven't repaid, it's your DHs.
Man, I've read some bad IL stories on here before and yours is up there with the worst of them. I'd be tempted to flee the whole lot of them, your DH included, but it's easy for me to say.
Hope it all works out, OP. It sounds incredibly stressful. If it were me I would not bring up the debt again but every Christmas/birthday/gift-giving event I would give your SIL a card with a note deducting an amount off your debt.
If you DH loaned the money out and refuses to help get it back (despite you and the kids going short), then he should sacrifice any 'fun' money he has until it's paid back.
Does he pop out for a couple of pints of a weekend? Not any more sunshine. Any hobbies? Nope. Can't afford them.
Your DH is being an utterly spineless twat, and hoping it'll all go away ('it's not me - it's the wife'). Make the fuckers life as uncomfortable as yours is.
I agree that the money sounds a lost cause tbh.
And that he should definitely be feeling the pinch.
So you were refusing contact with your husband & his child because him Mum owed you money?
In which case, I'm sorry but I can see why he took you to court.
That said, if he was OK about his Mum forcing you to take out a loan, I#d have left him.
In fact I'd still consider it.
They're all so screwed up about money I can't see how you'll ever be free of the threat/worry of him giving them money.
Yes I refused contact because his mum owed me money and I was having to use all my benefits to make the loan repayment every month and because of her I ccouldnt afford anything.I went hungry so that I could buy dd nappies.
For them to then want to take dd1 for whole weekends was completely unacceptable to me. I couldn't let her go and she was also only 8 wks old and ebf yet they still persisted and MIL was always round hammering on door with next set of court papers. It was awful.
And all night I've been mostly awake stressed about all this.
I asked Dh this morning exactly WHY he would rather see me and dcs go without.he just shrugged and said there's no point keep asking for money when they won't repay, that he would have dropped it a long time ago.
I said "you say you would have dropped it by now and that's fair enough-what annoys me is that you still want to have these people in your life? Dropping a debt is one thing but I'd never speak to them again and you just want to carry on being friends-what does that tell them? That you are weak??"
He just smirks he said "I'm different to you I'm too nice I can't help helping people"
I shouted at him "But YOUR children are going without I can't afford school lunches/trips"
And the idiot replied "well then we need to make sure we have the 10 pound every week"
"WHERE FROM THOUGH DH THE FUCKING MONEY TREE IN THE GARDEN"
I have had enough I can't just magic up 10 pounds a week if I don't have it.he doesn't get it and now I feel horrid dcs heard argument before school m
Don't feel horrid dcs need to hear arguments sometimes it's the real world. As long as it isn't a constantly unhappy environment they'll be ok.
Not keen on the smirking, do you think he could possibly enjoy the attention from you? He sounds a bit immature to me?
I don't know what the problem is but I've told him on mon (mIL has prommised 20 off debt) that he will be going round to collect it and if as per usual she has a stupid excuse as to why she doesn't have it then he is to tell her "these excuses are not good enough my dcs are going without"
I am so angry. I do love him but I don't LIKE him
This wedding is the absolute least of your problems. You have four kids and a husband who doesn't understand that their needs come first. Forget the wedding, who cares about a wedding. You need a plan to get the hell away from this idiot.
Why do you love him?
Really that should say what do you love about him? Is it his excellent parenting skills?
If it was solely his money to do with as he wanted-or as a family you were in a position to write it off-fine.
I can't believe he thinks so little not only of you, but especially his children.
This will sound ridiculous but yes! His parenting skills!
He helps immensely with dcs needs-physio daily, hosp appts, sleeps on floor by dd2s bed as she has v unstable diabetes and has numerous hypos through the night.
I am up usually with ds1 who has a lot of pain/sleeps badly and ds2 who wakes for feeding.
Without him I would not cope at all with dcs as all are so unwell. He is actually wonderful with dcs and patient and caring.
Without his family's influence (and mine but that a whole other set of problems) things could be so different.
Ariane, with all due respect this thread is no different to the one before Christmas. And the one where you needed a food bank.
Same issues, same responses.
You dh is a spineless fuck.
Things will never change.
I know and I don't know what to do anymore
Really and truly what is the point. I feel completely broken.I try and try and try but with dcs being unwell, toxic families and no money I can't cope.
No rl support.
I just want to be happy and I'm not.
Totally agree with Maggie111. Cause your DH can not do what you want...
Ariane, I have just read your posts since I last posted yesterday. Like others, I thought your DH was being spineless, but now....gosh, sorry, but he is a complete and utter git. He should grow some, stand up to his leeching family, if not for you, for your DCs. If he can't do that, if he cannot understand that his DW and DCs should come first then I'm afraid I agree with Diddl and others that if it was me in your shoes, my marriage would be over (unless you can get DH to see sense and change). So sorry you're going through this, I have toxic in-laws who DH kicked to the side last year when enough was enough and their actions were upsetting our DCs too. I really hope you resolve things, but I also hope you get your money.
I would not give them a gift or any money and go to the wedding and eat and drink as much as possible.
Your DH thinks he's nice not to ask for money owing? He would rather see his children go without than upset his mother and sister. He sounds like a waste of space. Do you really want a life with him? He is a poor example to his kids.
I'd rather have a spineless annoying Dh who was good with my four disabled kids than be on my own with them to be fair.
Although I think he'd be in the spare room and we'd be 'house and child sharing' rather than an actual couple.
To be honest we are not really much of a couple at the moment.
Don't have a spare room but dh sleeps beside dd2s bed anyway. I am fed up of things but wouldn't manage dcs if I was on my own.
He could still be a wonderful father but you would be splitting the care between two homes. Kids needs parents to feel as positive and buoyant as possible. They need mums who have the spectacles they need.
Or maybe you think of how to separate the money and the childcare. Don't stress about the money any more. Let it go. And concentrate on building up what you have. Can you earn? Can you earn more?
I suspect that when Cafcass said you dc should see family they meant their father - not a distant relative (and in my view grandparents are distant relatives unless they are a significantly positive impact on the kids.)
For what it's worth my mum's parents were what would now be called toxic (she called them "difficult"). Saw them occassionally but they weren't really part of my life. Can't say I've been damaged by it at all. Lots of happy childhood memories, did well at school, good job, happy marriage, lovely dd, ds on the way. All in all my life is pretty nice - I see myself as incredibly lucky.
I wouldn't be able to work, dcs need too much care due to illnesses so only 1 of us could work and DH can earn more than I could.
If we split up he would move straight back to his mums and then he would be straight back to lending.I want to stop him lending to them ever again and as I have had control over his cards/wages since jan he hasn't been able to.I am hoping he at some point can be trusted again but for now the finances are down to me.I still want the other debts repaid but I don't think mil/sil will.
I do love dh but he has made things so difficult.
ariane, I hope you're okay. You seem to be always trying to do the best out of a bad situation.
Is there anything more you could even consider? Like:
Moving - away from both families - you could both look for positions far away
Marriage counselling - although could see this might not work with childcare
Retraining - could you train to do something so you'd be the main earner?
Those particular suggestions might not be much use. But unless you make some sort of radical changes - and they will be hard - then you're always going to be stuck in the place you are now.
I could never earn as much as dh does (and he doesn't even earn that much!). I havnt worked since I was 18 and training/working would mean looking for specialist and probably expensive childcare due to all 4 dcs being unwell.I can't see how it could work.
Moving could be an option but would be difficult due to dh working for his brother and being v commited to that, not a bad thing but still a family tie I could do without (yes BIL owes us too-£200).
Counselling may work, I would certainly try it.
I have made moves this last week to really distance myself from toxic members of my family and I want dh to do same with his.
Finances are a big issue-I am still having to control every penny and DH needs to learn he can never lend to family again.
Don't know what to do about MIL she's a massive thorn in my side.Can't stand her she causes majority of the problems.
It all sounds way too exhausting. I'm amazed you aren't unwell you must get run down?
Do feel for you your dh needs to grow a pair ,sounds like he thinks more of his mother and sis than he does of you, it's up to him to get that money back .
Iam exhausted and permanently run down.A lot of it is due to the demands of caring for dcs but being unhappy doesn't help much either.
Since end of dec I've had 4 courses of antibiotics and never get over one thing before I get something else.I'm just so busy/dont rest/dont eat well and am always stressed but I have no choice but to keep going.
I just keep hoping it all improves at some point. I have distanced myself from my family a bit this week (have issues with them but can't go into it all here) and although I feel guilty about it I know its meant I've not had to do even more than usual.
Just a thought ariane5 - it's really your husband who has put your family in this position so could you make a list of some of his belongings with their values and say something like "ok, so you won't ask for the money back, but it's not fair that your children are suffering for it so this is what we can sell to make up for the debts?"
It doesn't sound like he's feeling the impact of his actions, just you and the children are.
I thought as much Have you offloaded onto your GP? It's not right you don't get much help apart from dh.
Yes I saw gp recently they always offer me annti depressants or cbt.
Cbt just another appt that I'm too tired to go to/cant arrange childcare for and I m not sure anti d would work-they won't change the underlying problems.
I have for last couple weeks had a lady from home start come round one morning a week and it has been a godsend, she sits and plays with dd2, she makes me a cup of tea and its so nice to have somebody else there for a couple of hours, I have been able to sit and feed the baby knowing dd2 is occupied and it has been a bit of a break if you see hwhat I mean.I am still knackered but it helps.
I have distanced myself recently from issues with my family as it was all too much for me trying to help them too.
The problem left is dh/mil/sil/money. Not sure what to do about that.
I think anti-depressants can be wonderful. They won't change the problem. Only you can do that. But they can ease your painful feelings while you deal with other problems. And then sometimes once those problems are gone, you don't need the drugs any more.
OP I am sorry things are so difficult for you right now. Re the wedding either don't go at all, or go and certainly no present. Keep asking for your money back. Don't give up on that. You are doing your level best for your dc and you have my sympathies that your dh is not giving you more support re his family
his mother sounds like a nightmare poor you. Family ties can be hard to break, it sounds like he can't do it? I think it is great that you are taking control of the finances and hope things start to improve soon now that he can't lend them any more money. Don't worry about dc hearing your argument, it seems to me that they are very lucky to have such a good mother, don't let yourself forget that you are doing your best and that is all you can do.
God almighty. This is one of the worst family situations I've ever read about on MN, and that's saying something. It sounds like you've spent the majority of your life being shat on, ariane - by family, your spineless slug of an h and your appalling in laws. That you are still standing is total kudos to you. A lesser woman would have buckled long ago.
If you genuinely want to stay with your h, I think your only option is to move far away from the grasping IL. Otherwise nothing will ever change, you will end up ground to nothing one way or another. Tell him that since he's incapable of defending his wife and children from the predations of his family, the only option is to remove yourselves from the situation completely.
Tbh I'd add that if he can't bring himself to do it, you'll be leaving with the children anyway. I know you are in such a hard situation with their health etc, but be honest, right now you are not living. And you deserve a full life
I swear by anti ds, I have bad anxiety and panic disorder without them. Plus they may help you to stay well as you may be able to cope a bit more?
Also I've done cbt online with a support worker who rang me up to keep check so don't rule that out.
Perhaps I should consider the anti ds then, I suppose if they lift my mood then that would help me deal with things.
Tiredness is a big factor too, that may sound silly especially as we have so many other things to deal with but the more exhausted I am the harder things are to deal with.
DH has been more willing today to talk to me, he admitted that SIL should have repaid the money and has agreed that on mon (the day mil has said she will have 20pounds for us) he will go to collect it and if as I suspect she doesn't have it he has promised he will tell her this is not good enough.
For him to even speak about it properly is progress I suppose but we will see on monday.
I took ds2 for a long walk today-first time I've been out of house in ages, I needed a break and time to think as I've been so stressed.
That's good that you got outside, it helps.
Talk to your GP and see what they suggest.
I hope he (your dh) does as he says.
I know MN etiquette is to try to treat each thread in isolation but your frequent and recent posts are so relevant to the problem this thread addresses it is hard to deal with it without considering what else id happening in your life. .
You really are having a tough time. Every aspect of your life seems to be a huge challenge and there is so much drama, all the time. I bet anyone in your position would feel stressed out. I certainly would. It is lovely to hear you speak so warmly about your children. You obviously think the world of them. (Do you think you are still able to get the eldest to go to the independant school?)
I know you had a SS referral before but do you think it might be worth looking into getting another one. Your situation is quite extreme and they may be able to offer some help or guidance.
I'm going to come back to this thread tomorrow, but I have just read the last few posts and I want to say that I spent 7 years saying I didn't need anti-depressants. After all, what was the point. I might have been depressed, but I was depressed about what was happening in my life and little white pills weren't going to stop that.
But I was wrong. I gave in, and it has made a massive difference. Huge. Suddenly I can look at things dispassionately and deal with them.
I'm on a very low dose of something (can't remember what) and for the first time in years I am actively interested in managing my life.
I didn't believe in medication. I still don't, not really. But I have to admit it has really helped me.
Tiredness is a symptom of depression. Go to the GP. And what about the online/phone CBT option? That could work for you if appointments are too hard.
Yes still hoping for dd1 to go to ind school (bursary is substantial, I have cut back on things and am saving what I can behind dh back, not a lot but luckily topping up fees isn't too bad due to brilliant bursary %).
I know I have posted a lot recently I just have nobody in rl to talk things through with and I feel so isolated sometimes.
That said my brother came to see me today, he was talking about the issues we have in our family and how difficult things are, he understrands but as I don't see him often we rarely get to talk.
That will be fantastic if your eldest gets to go to the independant school. anything to make things easier. I am glad you had a chat with your brother. It must be hard to meet RL people as you don't drive and must be so busy with your Kids.
Are there any clubs or support groups locally? I know MN is a great resource but it can't replace real life relationships and support.
Will you have a bit more time now that you have stepped back from your mum and sister?
You needn't be shy of asking for help from local groups. You sound like you NEED help.
I feel your pain OP.
I only ever hear from SIL/MIL/ OH's 17 yr old son when they want money.
OH is away at sea a lot and they never ever contact me to see if I am ok, SIL is on my FB and didn't even wish me a happy birthday, yet I am sure I will get a text soon enough seeing if I can butter up OH to give her holiday money or whatever that we will never see again. Last yr he gave her £400 as she was going on holiday abroad but was skint, just before Xmas he "lent" his mum £200 as she was skint (and she doesn't work GRRRRRR!).
Yes put a note in the card :D
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