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To think this is wrong re Council tax

(180 Posts)
Dryjuice25 Mon 25-Mar-13 14:24:27

I had a letter from the council to say now I will be paying council tax, whereas I didn't have to do this previously as I haven't got gainful employment. I have young children.I also have debts and I'm currently studying for exams.

I feel this is unfair and it's effectively a 10% benefit cut. Anyone agree? I have not seen this on the news so I think it's beingdone sneakily as this might cause an uproar with the unemployed who already live in poverty having their income cut this way whilst big corporations getaway with paying very litle or no tax at all due to various tax loopholes. I have 3 kids and a newborn. I get CTC two of the children and ex claim for one of the children. I am desperate for a job I could ask any mumsnetters to pm me with any flexible or child friendly job offers please and very angry to have my benefit cut in a sneaky way like this and there is nothng I can do about it.

Anyoone got any letters like this?AIBU to be angry about this? I don't mind paying for council tax although its a pain in the bum but dontexpect a tax demand on income support!!

Please flame me not

Dryjuice25 Mon 25-Mar-13 14:26:13

By the way I get £111 fortnighly and the council tax now is about £10 a month

Loulybelle Mon 25-Mar-13 14:27:46

I got mine, i've gotta pay £20 a month, for the year.

This has been on the news for months hmm

I survive on a part ime wage and pay full coucil tax, just saying...

Loulybelle Mon 25-Mar-13 14:31:43

I got a letter months ago stating it was the case, so i expected it.

happyinherts Mon 25-Mar-13 14:31:56

It's not a bad percentage of your income though is it? £2.50 a week from £55.00??

A lot of low income households in work are paying over 10 percent of income out on council tax

TidyDancer Mon 25-Mar-13 14:32:25

Have you really not seen anything in the news about this?! It's been a HUGE story. Afaik, there has been quite a bit of prior warning about it.

MissMogwi Mon 25-Mar-13 14:35:37

Everyone has to start paying something towards their council tax now. If you don't mind me saying, you must be on more than £111 per fortnight, if you add up income support, CTC and child benefit? If not are you sure you are claiming everything you are entitled to?

CockyFox Mon 25-Mar-13 14:37:23

This has been on the news for months, I knew about it and it doesn't affect me. It is horrible though and lots and lots of people are going to struggle.

ENormaSnob Mon 25-Mar-13 14:38:14

If you are out of work with 4 children and only getting 111 every 2 weeks then I suggest you ask them to review your benefits because that doesn't sound right to me.

Dryjuice25 Mon 25-Mar-13 14:39:11

I live in a cave grin and when I got out, there was the letter.

happyinherts when you put it like this it doesnt sound like a lot.But to me its stilla cut on income support. How many families survive on £52.50 a week?

Its not nice. Devisive I know but really out of order

happyinherts Mon 25-Mar-13 14:41:18

Fair enough dryjuice, but child benefit alone for four young ones would amount to more than £55 per week.

Loulybelle Mon 25-Mar-13 14:45:07

I get more than £111 for 1 child, it get, JSA, CTC, CB and HB. It sounds like your missing out on money.

Dryjuice25 Mon 25-Mar-13 14:48:36

I have 3 dc but claim for only 2 of them. Ex gets benefit for one dc. The other child is a baby so alot more expensive. So its the uniforms, hobbies[not necessary strictly speaking I know] food, energy bills, clothes travel etc. My redundancy money is running out fast too. It's quite gloomy and no jobs are sufficing as yet. So I dont want to pay the council tax. But I have no choice as it happens

Loulybelle Mon 25-Mar-13 14:50:37

Do all of them live with you?

Dryjuice25 Mon 25-Mar-13 14:51:59

I do get housing benefit but have to top it up withmy savings which are now quickly disappearing so I think its either I get a job fast if I'm lucky, or another trip to the benefit people and will have to cancel the holiday plans

Mandy2003 Mon 25-Mar-13 14:52:24

This financial year up to 6/4/13 I have been receiving Council Tax Benefit of £5.04 per week. For next year WTC and CTC are going up by a couple of quid and I'd be entitled to £4.84 per week.

In their infinite wisdom the council have decided not to pay any amounts less than £5.00 per week, leaving me to find an extra £20 per month. This was not publicised in the council's newsletter showing proposals for changes therefore no-one was able to contact their councillor to vote against it.

Is this fair? Is this reasonable? Is anybody else being penalised in this way?

Dryjuice25 Mon 25-Mar-13 14:53:26

* Lou* we share 50/50. But the newborn is with me all the time.

olgaga Mon 25-Mar-13 14:54:02

You definitely need to check your benefits. You can do it online here or here.

ENormaSnob Mon 25-Mar-13 14:54:28

No Mandy, that's neither fair nor reasonable imo.

Op, even for 2 children you should be getting more than that. Or do you mean the 55 per week is after expenses?

Sirzy Mon 25-Mar-13 14:54:33

Do only 2 of the children live with you?

I don't think it's unfair to expect everyone to pay it really, especially given you already get housing benefit therefore a lot of assistance with the living costs.

Dryjuice25 Mon 25-Mar-13 14:58:33

MandyThats what I mean. There is an element of sneakiness in it I feel.

Its so out of order to demand tax from the unemployed as most of us are in this situation through no fault of our own! Although its not too much money, its still a cut on income on the most vulnerable people.

timidviper Mon 25-Mar-13 14:59:18

I think this is part of the government trying to level the playing field between the unemployed and low paid workers. Not sure if it will work or not but it isn't right that that you might not pay if a working parent with the same income does.

MikeChoccyCoatedLitoris Mon 25-Mar-13 14:59:54

Personally I wouldnt call your situation poverty. I have been on benefits with two small children so I have experienced it. It was pleasant but I coped. I'm really not much better off atm though.

I work part time and pay 90% council tax. £89 a month. Also have 3 dc and a whole heap of debt.

Do I think its fair? Nope. But we just have to suck it up unfortunately.

ENormaSnob Mon 25-Mar-13 15:04:31

Can you clarify whether the £55 per week is before or after expenses?

Isn't cb alone about £30 for 2 children?

Then there's ctc, hb, ctb and income support?

Mandy2003 Mon 25-Mar-13 15:05:26

Mike - is your reduction from CTax less than £5 per week? Has your council sneaked in the rule like mine has?

Dryjuice25 Mon 25-Mar-13 15:06:32

Olgaga- Thanks for the link.
Sirzy Well not everyone can afford to pay it. They are going to see people faulter and what are they going to do? Pay expensive courts cost to recover a tiny amount of council tax? I am extremely squizzed although I understand all this noise about the dificit. Taking it from the most vulnerable is just desperate really.

I have the youngest 100% of the time. The other two I have 50% of the time.

You need to clarify the money if you want any assistance.

You cannot possibly be only getting £111 fortnightly, child benefit alone is £67.40 for two kids fortnightly. Do you mean this is what you have left after bills?

(BTW, I do think it is wrong if your situation is the same as Mandy's)

Dryjuice25 Mon 25-Mar-13 15:13:33

ENorma This is before expenses.

Mike I get you totally.I expect not to be better off too when I go back to work but at least I will have gainful employment. Like I said I have benefit for 2 of the 3 dcs only and its on the breadline, which is fine and really helpful we have this safety net. But to be asked to pay tax out of this sneakily is really playing dangerous politics of deviding and ruling the masses. Its not right

spaghettiwestern Mon 25-Mar-13 15:13:59

In our area, the council have basically accepted that many households are going to default and they have said that the council probably won't take them to court as it's pointless when their only income is benefits anyway. It will screw up their credit rating but if you're on benefits that's going to be poor anyway, and most of them don't have assets which can be seized. Then they can agree to pay as little as £1 a month towards arrears to avoid further action being taken.

Mandy2003 Mon 25-Mar-13 15:16:17

Dryjuice - let's see if we can sort out your present entitlement not taking into account any Universal Credit stuff or whatever. If you only have two of your DC for 50% of the time this may complicate matters BIGTIME but try inputting the info for just 1 child at present. The site I use is

ENormaSnob Mon 25-Mar-13 15:17:34

shock so including cb, ctc, is, hb and ctb, plus any free school meals etc you only get 55 per week?

You really need to go to cab.

That's not right.

allmycats Mon 25-Mar-13 15:19:19

the OP makes mention of her redundancy money - is it because of this that you are not receiving more in means tested benefits ?

MouseyHousey Mon 25-Mar-13 15:20:48

You have been very unclear on lots of details here op.
Do you have 3 children including a newborn or 4 kids?
I get child benefit for 2 children and its 33.70 a week so I cannot understand if you are claiming CTC plus other benefits how you can have only £55 a week.
Can you clarify what benefits you are receivin and how much of each and then maybe we would be better placed to advise you.

Dawndonna Mon 25-Mar-13 15:21:08

10% of fuck all (£55.00) is very different to 10% of 55,000.
The most expensive council taxes are around £2.500 p.a. (Oxfordshire, for example). So it certainly isn't everybody paying 10% of their wages on council tax, some, many in fact pay significantly less than that.

kinkyfuckery Mon 25-Mar-13 15:21:33

You are not on the right amount of money, if you are unemployed with 3 children. You should receive HB/LHA, CTB, IS and CTC at least.

kinkyfuckery Mon 25-Mar-13 15:22:35

And Child Benefit.

Dryjuice25 Mon 25-Mar-13 15:23:28

Thanks MandyWill look at this later. I have the oldest 2dc 50% of the time but I buy 100% of everything they need as ex is so inept/stingy therefore feeling very stretched. I do worry about the UC issue and how its going to affect me.

Dryjuice25 Mon 25-Mar-13 15:36:52

Hi all.
I get £55 per week income support, £112 for the dcs fortnightly, child benefit weekly not sure how much I believe £20 for dc1 and £13 for dc2.

I also have to pay £80 towards my rent as savings and redundancy were considered when decision was made but now running out.

I suppose we are lucky to have the benefit system but just feeling under pressure as have debts and my course is costing me thousands, hence my savings no longer that much. I have debts that I wont bore you with and I get £55 pound a week income support because they have to deduct some debt first.And when I get it, I have some more debts. Heating alone is costing me about £90 a month so I can't wait for proper spring

Babymamaroon Mon 25-Mar-13 15:39:58

I think it's a step in the right direction for us as a debt-riddled country. You just can't get something for nothing any longer. It's tough out there for everyone (other than the super-rich).

Where do you think the money comes from to pay for your council tax? It's your tax-paying neighbours. My council tax bill recently arrived and we'll be paying £2800 per year! When I looked at the breakdown for this exorbitant bill a huge proportion is going on Housing Benefits etc for others.

Am just really kind of sick of paying for others...

Well, you will be able to claim more when you drop below the threshold with your savings - you had more than 16,000 pounds yes ?

round2 Mon 25-Mar-13 15:51:52

If you are a full time student and living alone (25% discount if there is another adult over 18 in the property) you are exempt from Council Tax. Look at your local authority website for info on discount/exemptions.

bluebell78 Mon 25-Mar-13 16:00:04

The OP isn't making much sense to me.

I'm trying to work out the figures, to the £111 figure every two weeks, but have no idea if she's missing lots of stuff off the info she's giving us, or is massively underclaiming what she's entitled to.

OP, can you clarify the figures? Perhaps you're not claiming something you should be, in which case MNers etc can help.

Dryjuice25 Mon 25-Mar-13 16:02:03

Babymamaroon Many moons ago when I had a job I used to think like that.But now I have sympathy with the jobseeking clan more. I was better off then and I was happy to pay up.
LaurieFairyCake Savings were meant to be for deposit for a house but that is going to remain pie in the sky. Its amazing how easy it is to spend hard-saved money, so so easy when times are this hard

bluebell78 Mon 25-Mar-13 16:02:45

Just spotted the follow up post

I also have to pay £80 towards my rent as savings and redundancy were considered

You do realise that if you're only paying £80 (a week? a month?) then if that's all that's coming out of your savings pot, HB must be topping up the rest? Unless I've got the wrong end of the stick?

In which case you can't say you only get £111 every two weeks... because your rent is being subsidized.. you have to include this into the tally of what you're getting, just as a working person or other low income household would hmm Rent isn't free if you're not on benefits.


BruisedFanjo Mon 25-Mar-13 16:02:57

I only earn £568(approx) a month, have a DD I get a few benefits for and a DSS we get nothing towards(so similar to you in having to provide for children without assistance). My CT bill is £97 a month. Yes, its a pain in the butt, but what can we do? We have the bins collected(when they can be arsed), use the library, would dial 999 if needed etc. I think its mainly to try and change peoples attitudes, and to get people used to thinking "right I have to set aside x y and z a month for these services" and to try and get people involved in local things. If no ones paying, no one will care.

You said it was terrible to expect the unemployed to pay - why? Why is it any more terrible than expecting someone employed to pay? Being employed isn't a jolly with free cash to those who clock in on time - it takes me 14 hours a month of graft and being away from my toddler to pay that bill. We go without things, too. I think you can give up £2.50 as a token amount to be part of contributing to your community. Maybe its just me but when I was on full benefits I never felt I could have a say in things in the local area. I felt I couldn't complain when the refuse collectors didn't come into our block for month and we got mice. - how can I complain about something free? However now I pay, I'm actively involved in things and feel I have a voice. It makes me feel better about the temporary top up amount I claim too, as I know its only until I get my next promotion and I'm proud of how far I've come.

I do agree however that if someone can't squeeze that amount then no, they shouldn't have to pay. I will also be annoyed if the council waste a fuckton of money on taking defaulters to court.

No practical suggestions for you really though, other than if your ex is being a dick over contributing, claim what you need for your other DC. They will take it off him and give it to you, tbh he obviously doesn't need it if he isn't paying for DC, what IS the money going on? I'm not saying his incompetence is your fault BTW, I'm in a similar position of my situation being worsened by stupid bloke not taking responsibility for his kids so it falls to me - even though they're not both my kids!

bluebell78 Mon 25-Mar-13 16:04:31

Savings were meant to be for deposit for a house... Its amazing how easy it is to spend hard-saved money, so so easy when times are this hard

So, you want to keep your savings and let other council tax payers pay your portion?

I'm out of this thread at this point.

Above OP states she gets £55 IS per week, £112 a fortnight for the kids, plus £33 a week CB. By my reckoning that is actually a weekly total of £153 (which sounds more like it).

PLUS she has significant savings which must have been above £16000.

Pay your £2.50 a week.

Dryjuice25 Mon 25-Mar-13 17:06:09

Coola I will pay. I have no choice. Just venting my frustration really as under so much pressure and no one else to take the burden. I suppose someone else is footing the bill, as I used to in my working days.

When you have savings for something really important, and then fall on hard times, its heartbreaking to have to watch that get depleted and the dream out the window. I have taken 10 steps backwards and have now conceded this will never happen. I had a business idea that went horribly wrong, as they sometimes do these days, hence all this depressing penny pinching.

I have now managed to laugh though that its a tiny amount that is involved. But I suppose its the principle of taxing the unemployed that I find repugnant. I think its immoral esp on people who are really struggling. I do appreciate I use services and they need to be paid for but there you go.

Dawndonna Mon 25-Mar-13 17:10:41

Where do you think the money comes from to pay for your council tax? It's your tax-paying neighbours. My council tax bill recently arrived and we'll be paying £2800 per year! When I looked at the breakdown for this exorbitant bill a huge proportion is going on Housing Benefits etc for others.
The amount you pay is minimal. It also goes to pay for HB for those with disabilities, do you resent that too?
Oh, and as everybody on here today seems to think those on benefits should do a Tebbitt, if you don't like the amount of council tax you pay, move. There are places in London with cheaper council tax than that.

Orwellian Mon 25-Mar-13 17:23:23

Huh? Surely you would be getting child benefit x 3 (£47.10 per week) + child tax credits x 3 (£165 per week) + income support (£71.00 per week) plus housing benefit at the very least? This adds up to £283 per week not including housing benefit. Surely you can pay a small amount since you will be using council services (you get your bins emptied presumably?). This £14,716 per year (not including housing benefit) and you pay no tax or NI on that. There are millions of low paid workers who get that after tax or less and still have to find the money for council tax. I think YUBVVU!

Dryjuice25 Mon 25-Mar-13 17:27:28

Bruised I hear you. The ex is rubbish. He effectively asked to claim for that child because he needs to live off this money! He does nothing for this child with that money and I'm beginning to resent this lately. Its so unfair and it puts me under much pressure as it's now down to me to financially look after all 3 DCS financial needs.

Loulybelle Mon 25-Mar-13 17:31:36

If he does nothing for the child, then hes committing fraud complaining for the child. Money goes to the RP.

Dryjuice25 Mon 25-Mar-13 17:32:16

Orwellian I see you haven't read the whole thread. I claim for 2 of the 3 dcs.Ex claim for one of the dcs. And I have sympathy for low paid workers.I was one of those once but I never complained about paying my way.I am complaining on behalf of the really struggling unemployed families and I am hearding that way myself and in general agaist the principle

Loulybelle Mon 25-Mar-13 17:33:04

*claiming, what a divvy

crashdoll Mon 25-Mar-13 17:37:15

In your OP, you said it was unfair that you have to pay because you are unemployed.

pedrohedges Mon 25-Mar-13 17:38:08

I went from getting £18 per week council tax benefit to £1.01. Fair enough, i'm using the services. But i work 25 hours a week.
My mate is on income support and she's still getting all hers paid for her. That's not fair imo. We all need to be pitching in.

Softlysoftly Mon 25-Mar-13 17:39:03

You have no savings, you just have debts you are choosing not to bother paying off, and clearly got into trouble with if they are having to deduct from your benefits hmm. Which btw makes no sense as interest on savings is sweet fanny Adamsatm but interest in debt is high.

have no savings they disappeared during a redundancy where I chose to stay home with dd1 and didn't claim jsa as I had savings to live off and didn't feel justified charging the tax payer.

Working part time now with a council tax bill of £169 a month.

Just saying. ........

RedHelenB Mon 25-Mar-13 17:40:01

If ex has the children 50% of the time I don't think it unfair he claims for one of them given he needs a place to live, to heat it for them, feed them etc.

LIZS Mon 25-Mar-13 17:44:08

Surely it is your choice to allow ex to claim the CB - why should the state then sub your CT. Who claims for your newborn ?

IneedAsockamnesty Mon 25-Mar-13 17:49:08

Savings would not be above 16k because no ESA/IS would be payable if that were the case.

Op answer the question how much did you have in savings and how much now?

Nobody can help you unless you actually tell us.

And whilst I'm on the subject does your ex really have kids 50% or does he just like to say he does,and what does he fund towards these kids?

Purple2012 Mon 25-Mar-13 17:58:07

You must be getting more than you say. You didnt mention your housing benefit which i assume you must be getting as you pay £80 to top it up. Based on what you have said you get a week you are paying less than 2% of the money you claim on council tax.

ENormaSnob Mon 25-Mar-13 18:01:34


And your op is very misleading.

CloudsAndTrees Mon 25-Mar-13 18:01:43

Wtf are you doing with a newborn when you can't even pay your own council tax?

Don't you realise how manny essential things are paid for our of council tax? Sorry, but providing essential caring services for elderly and disabled people, for police to be on our streets, for the fire service, for respite for carers, is more important than you paying your debts and having children you clearly can't afford to have.

You have convinced yourself that you are paying or your children because your ex won't, but you are no better than him. You aren't paying for them, everyone else who has to work is paying for them, and now you have the cheek to complain that you are being asked to pay a pittance towards your own council tax? hmm

Dawndonna Mon 25-Mar-13 18:04:21

Wtf are you doing with a newborn when you can't even pay your own council tax?
What business is that of yours, how fucking rude!

Dawndonna Mon 25-Mar-13 18:05:34

Oh, and I've lost my respite due to cutbacks and dh has lost his disability services, but they're not really penalising those who are at the bottom of the food chain, are they. hmm

CloudsAndTrees Mon 25-Mar-13 18:07:18

How is it rude? It's a valid question. It would be rude if she were paying for her own children, but as she isn't, it's valid.

If you want other people to pay for your lack of common sense, and then you want to post on the internet about how unfair it is that you are expected to use some of your other free money to pay your own tax, then you have to expect the people that pay for that to comment.

manticlimactic Mon 25-Mar-13 18:08:15

I knew about the cut to CT benefit months ago. I got a letter. I work pt and pay some CT so I've been paying a fiver more a month since I received the letter so I'd have a bit of a cushion when it stops completely.

Bowlersarm Mon 25-Mar-13 18:15:09

Dawndonna re your post addressed to clouds - as the OP has invited people to agree with her about her situation, i think it is only fair that people are allowed to disagree with her without being told it's none of their business-the whole point surely is that it is to do with her situation, and it is that which she is asking for comments about!

zeeboo Mon 25-Mar-13 18:15:52

OP why is your IS a reduced amount? Have you been sanctioned or are you still earning £20 a week? Because the figure you've given is not a correct IS entitlement unless there are other circumstances that you haven't yet mentioned.

Babymamaroon Mon 25-Mar-13 18:17:30

Why should I have to move Dawn? Why should I have to change my lifestyle to pay for other people's lifestyles?! Utter craziness. Oh and if what I pay is nothing - are you offering to pay it for me? No. So pipe down please.

Astley Mon 25-Mar-13 18:17:45

If the ex has 50/50 custody why wouldn't/shouldn't he get some CB?

cloudy99 Mon 25-Mar-13 18:34:34

Well I think you are in a difficult situation. However, my sister was made redundant many years ago. She claimed jsa for 6 months and than of course received nothing for a while as she received a reduncy payment. Many years later all the money is gone and she is surviving on £71 a week less cost of travelling to sign on. They closed local job centre. She received a letter saying she has to pay. It was worded along the lines of we can't possibly charge people with dc under 5 or disabled so you will have to subside them.
Her bills alone are about £1400 per year so she will struggle.

ChoudeBruxelles Mon 25-Mar-13 18:38:10

Its because the government has cuts councils budgets at the same time as allowing councils to set their own council tax support schemes.

I'm surprised you haven't heard anything before now - where I work we've been writing to people in receipt of benefits for ages to say things are changing. And stuff about universal credit is all over the news

Mandy2003 Mon 25-Mar-13 19:20:14

I got no letter from my Council saying payments less than £5 pw Council Tax Support would not be paid.

I am not sure where mortgage interest will fit into UC - anyone know?

SamuelAndOscarsMummy Mon 25-Mar-13 19:31:33

You say you are studying for exams but I am a student too and have council tax exemption for this reason, can you not get this? smile

Dawndonna Mon 25-Mar-13 19:36:41

Why should I have to move Dawn? Why should I have to change my lifestyle to pay for other people's lifestyles?! Utter craziness. Oh and if what I pay is nothing - are you offering to pay it for me? No. So pipe down please.

Yep, we're just ignoring the bit about respite care and disability services being cut back are we?

kinkyfuckery Mon 25-Mar-13 19:58:15

CTC for two children should be more than £112 fortnightly. If that's what you're getting, you need to ask for a review. I get that weekly for two children.

HappyMummyOfOne Mon 25-Mar-13 19:58:47

"Bruised I hear you. The ex is rubbish. He effectively asked to claim for that child because he needs to live off this money! He does nothing for this child with that money and I'm beginning to resent this lately. Its so unfair and it puts me under much pressure as it's now down to me to financially look after all 3 DCS financial needs"

Not that rubbish that you kept having children with him. Its actually not you financially supporting their needs as your income is all from state benefits.

Everyone should pay council tax, you use the services after all like everyone else.

You have four children and dont work and then have the gall to complain that you have to lay a tiny percentage of your council tax. Its state money not your own paying for it anyway. Thousands have to go out and work hard and hand over their salaries and pay the full amount every month.

expatinscotland Mon 25-Mar-13 20:14:41

'I have the youngest 100% of the time. The other two I have 50% of the time. '

You keep going back and forth between 3 and 4 kids, missing out a child here and there. Why is that? It's 3 children and a newborn, then statements like this. Just hmm

Babymamaroon Mon 25-Mar-13 20:15:15

It's a sad but true fact that there's less money in the pot so something's got to give and this means most services and benefits. Money doesn't grow on trees (more's the pity!) and as a result most people are being impacted one way or another.

Who claims cb for the newborn?

kinkyfuckery Mon 25-Mar-13 20:37:35

OP do you really have a newborn as well as a 9 month old?? confused

expatinscotland Mon 25-Mar-13 20:39:18

'OP do you really have a newborn as well as a 9 month old?? confused'

You have to ask? grin

Kinky where has op said that? I suspect her youngest is the 9mo and her op is badly worded

kinkyfuckery Mon 25-Mar-13 20:44:18

Just had a quick review of previous posts blush

"i have 3 kids and a newborn. "
I assume that means 3 kids one of which is a newborn. And actually the newborn is 9m.

Dryjuice25 Tue 26-Mar-13 00:29:35

Stop the nastiness if you havent read the thread properly.

I have 3kids in total.Why I have 3 is none of your business. I had a job and was made redundant during pg ,so get off your fucking high horse( this is directed at at the person who said why the fuck I had kids to be looked after by the state).

I am not going to keep answering the same questions I have already answered as I have already stated my payments in detail. If you havent seem the details upthread, I'm sorry but if you must post then read first. And yes I am actively seeking employment so. Im not going to give you a figure of my savings as that has nothing to do with anything.

The point of the thread was to express an opinion about how wrong it it to demand tax from peoplewho dont work, and low paid workers.

What get deducted from my IS is just the water bills ( fresh and sewage) the water company didn't send a bill even after requesting one, and the amount was so stupid they adviced deductions from benefit if I chose to. And I am still paying off the debt for the car which is nearly paid off before you call me wreckless.

Some of you can be so judgemental!!! Even without the facts. So so crass

And to those with useful comments, thanks a lot

'I have three kids and a newborn'

Your words OP. Call me weird but where I come from three plus one is FOUR not three, but this did set the tone for the rest of your posts.

I've read the whole thread, and in all honesty your posts are confusing and contradictory. People are asking the 'same questions' because some parts of your posts are as clear as mud and they are trying to make sense of them.

Your last post finally clarifies your rambling, confused point - 'how wrong it it [sic] to demand tax from people who don't work' but IMO there is also a question around should people with savings be eligible for benefits whilst they still have funds in the bank? I'm not anti benefits in the slightest, but I do think they should be reserved for people with NO access to any other money, so who actually need it to live. That way those who have nothing could actually get a decent amount and everyone is in an equal position.

The fact that you have savings, when many people do not, and you are complaining about paying £2.50 a week towards your council tax and bemoaning how unfair it is when your position is so much better than others on benefits is just a touch repugnant.

You initially claimed that you only had £55 a week, but then when called on it added the fact that you get a lot more than that because you didn't initially mention CTC or CB, THEN dropped in that you have savings...

Did you deliberately fudge the figures to try to make your point? Four kids on £55 garners more sympathy than three kids on more than treble that with savings.

Added to which you are complaining about having to spend your savings looking after YOUR kids, when you wanted to keep it and expect the state to pick up your tab so you can have a deposit for a house...

I never thought I'd be telling anyone on benefits they are entitled... But seriously OP - how entitled?!

IneedAsockamnesty Tue 26-Mar-13 02:07:47

The savings are relevant as what money you have access to impacts on what you can claim.

I was actually asking because I was going to offer to talk you through methods of increasing your incomings possibly reducing the effects of any welfare reforms that will possibly cause further income reduction. The reason why I also asked about the third child living with Your ex was to be able to provide you with proper situational personally tailored advice.

But you know what,you've got a bad attitude and I am disinclined to bother,so try your luck with the cab after you've waited about 8 months trying to get an appointment with someone who knows less about benefits than me and by the time your royally fucked and need legal support and discover you can't get it due to the changes to legal aid also preventing it being awarded to challenge benefit awards you may have realised that the ctb being abolished is the least of your worries.

MidniteScribbler Tue 26-Mar-13 03:05:35

having their income cut this way

Benefits are NOT income.

MsTakenidentity Tue 26-Mar-13 06:26:45

Whatevva OP's budget, the 15% Council/Poll tax levy + Bedroom Tax is just a way of clawing back even more from benefit recipients/low income households. Government b'stards angry

Sirzy Tue 26-Mar-13 06:46:52

Why haven't you used your savings to clear your debts?

LIZS Tue 26-Mar-13 06:56:55

its not too much money, its still a cut on income on the most vulnerable people. For some yes but presumably your benefits will rise by 1% next month whereas most earning families won't get a payrise this year and many of those have no savings to fall back on or an ex H who perhaps could contribute.

Why are benefits not "income" Midnite, were OP to get a job during the tax year some of this might be liable for income tax (JSA is for example, not sure re.IS) as would any interest she is earning on the remaining savings.

Dawndonna Tue 26-Mar-13 07:24:10

*having their income cut this way

Benefits are NOT income.*
Money coming in is income.

Januarymadness Tue 26-Mar-13 08:24:12

Isn't the point of redundancy money that it is compensation for lost wages? Why shouldnt you have to pay out of that? you also state you have holiday plans so 2.50 a week shouldn't be that much of a stress. DH and I both work full time and cant afford a holiday this year.

Januarymadness Tue 26-Mar-13 08:25:46

I forgot to add that that that is no judgement on people who genuinely cannot afford to pkay through no fault of their own. Those people I have great sympathy for.

olgaga Tue 26-Mar-13 09:34:03

It is absolutely crazy to be paying interest on debts when you have savings sitting there earning practically no interest.

Use your savings to pay off your debts! That'll cut your outgoings straight away and you will easily find the extra £2.30 a week CT you're now being asked to pay.

OP I work full time as does my husband we soon will have 3 kids and I have bugger all savings because I need to pay mortgage and council tax, so I say count yourself lucky you only need to pay a token amount.

I also have less than £100 disposable income per week after all bills are paid.

cloudy99 Tue 26-Mar-13 10:44:31

Try being a single person on £71 a week who still has to pay all bills except rent. Even council tax and she is paying more to subside people with children . So angry on her behalf. She also watched her redundancy disapear as unable to claim any benefits.

Dryjuice25 Tue 26-Mar-13 13:17:41

@ Coolar You sound like a very charming human being. Walk a mile in my shoes and you might not be spouting that vomit. It goes without saying that if you qualify for income support, you will get CTC, so didn't include that info on OP though in hindsight for someome who need all the obvious facts, I should have included it. How I chose to pay what I owe is nothing to do with your fucking business.

If you read what I wrote later, then it would have been clear as a blue sky even to a total lunatic that I have 3 dcs not 4 although I concede my post seems to imply 3 but had clarified that. You seem to have lost the purpose of the post totallty,so dont bother coming to post here again as you have nothing positive to say. You will never get the full picture of my life and (frankly I dont want unhelpful posts)how its been difficult since losing my job but now I have no intention of explaining the details to you because you're just nasty and judgemental.

Everyone that got the point of the post, thanks. This was meant to be not so hard hearted but

Dryjuice25 Tue 26-Mar-13 13:19:09

Anyone with a nasty post be warned that I didn't go past the first sentence as I will not waste my time and effort absorbing negative energy.

NicknameTaken Tue 26-Mar-13 13:22:03

cloudy, but why shouldn't someone use their redundancy money before they are eligible for benefits? I don't understand - you think she should get to keep her savings and still be subsidized by the taxpayer?

Sirzy Tue 26-Mar-13 13:22:49

So basically if anyone isn't saying "oh poor you how awful" then you are accusing them of being nasty?

Surely you can see how given you obviously have pretty decent savings, and you have 'bent' the truth about your actual income on this thread that some people may not have the greatest amounts of sympathy for your particular positon.

Dryjuice25 Tue 26-Mar-13 13:50:47

Sirzy, I was not bargaining for sympathy either, was just making a point. No truths were bent. Everything relevant was given upfront as far as I am concerned. You too missed the point of the thread,shame

Dryjuice25 Tue 26-Mar-13 13:53:05

Sirzy, and you obviously didnt read someofmy subsequent comments,which is a shame as it would have helped you make a useful comment if you at,must comment.

I said I had just laughed at myself on one of my responses. Is that enough for you?

Sirzy Tue 26-Mar-13 13:53:12

the point that you have savings, you have plans for a holiday, you get most of your rent paid for you but you still don't want pay a small amount of council tax?

I think it is you that is deliberatly missing the point a lot of people are making

LineRunnyEgg Tue 26-Mar-13 13:57:45

Going back to your original post, OP, yes the Government absolutely intended a 10% council tax benefit cut to happen, hence the 10% cut in the money they make available for council tax benefit; and yes it is a bit sneaky that the way they have done it is to pass the actual job of cutting on to councils.

Dryjuice25 Tue 26-Mar-13 14:03:14

Holiday plans not going ahead.Did you see my comment. If someone said they laughed at themselves, it means have got the point. I do see why some people reacted negatively, but nasty comments will not be tolerated by me. I just get the gist of the comment and I stop reading mid sentence! And at this point there is nothing left to say as everything has already been said and I have laughed at myself but still feel sympathy for those who will find paying that minimal amount a squeeze. Of course I will pay though I wouldn't volunteer to if thats still your problem Sirzy.

expatinscotland Tue 26-Mar-13 14:09:21

An indeterminate amount of kids, an indeterminate amount of savings, there's a lot of vagueness here.


Dryjuice25 Tue 26-Mar-13 14:15:31

Expat.Go back and read the whole thread you will find your answers

IneedAsockamnesty Tue 26-Mar-13 14:27:05

No she won't,what she will find is ramblings and nonsense

TheCalvert Tue 26-Mar-13 14:40:07

I've clearly wasted a lot of money on my education. Can't understand why OP is flipping out at people trying to help her.

Mental biscuit.

I don't need to walk a mile in your shoes OP... Last September my DH was made redundant, we lived overseas with his job so we also lost our home and I lost my job too - we went from dual income to no income and no home - with DC. We got on with it, we didn't bleat about how mean the world was, or how bad we had it on the Internet and we certainly never attempted 'poor me' 'walk a mile in my shoes' one upmanship.

We had to put all our possessions in storage and live with family. We lived off his redundancy money until he found a job, and paid our debts with it. We didn't plan any holidays and it never even occurred to us to claim whilst we had money in the bank.

You clearly don't think YABU and are being abusive, rude and offensive to anyone who doesn't agree with you. The only person being 'nasty' is you.

You sound like a petulant child with poor me syndrome. 'I want to keep ALL my money, contribute nothing and claim everything! And everyone is being mean to meeeee!'

Grow up OP, pull up your big girl panties and lose your frankly childish attitude, there's a dear.

You don't know when you're well off - because from where I was standing until recently that 'mile in your shoes' looks like a fucking stroll in the park. There are many people worse off than you, many people worse off than me. Instead of playing the victim card why don't you thank your lucky stars for what you DO have?

Dryjuice25 Tue 26-Mar-13 14:56:53

Coola If it helps to save you valuable time, I really didnt read all that as I don't need it and its not necessary,sorry

Only because I don't agree with you... Which begs the question - why the fuck did you post on AIBU? Everyone who has not agreed is nasty and you won't read the nasty posts... Totally pointless assertion as the only way to know which are the 'nasty' or 'non nasty' posts is to read them.

We both know you read it, hell we ALL know you read it, silly 'la la fingers in ears I can't hear the nasty lady!' posts are just childish bollocks.

Par for the course with this thread. As said before - grow up.

PS - I know you're reading this too. But I don't care anymore, it's like trying to hold an intelligent discussion with a toddler. Although to be fair you've thrown more tantrums on this thread than my toddler has in a week.

"even to a total lunatic that I have 3 dcs not 4 although I concede my post seems to imply 3 but had clarified that."
OP you are still not making sense (and I did try) and you are being frankly rude to people who are trying to have a grown up conversation with you.

Dryjuice25 Tue 26-Mar-13 16:10:08

Not rude, just dont see the point of some comments thats all. Im not going into argument anymore and Im not reading anymore flamings. You dont have to post if you have nothing helpful to me. Period. And I dont see the point of your any more posts except it appears you have nothing better to do. You will not get this time back Im afraid, sorry

presumably you don't see the point because you aren't reading them - maybe give it a go. And unfortunately you aren't able to dictate people what to post.

oh and btw you are rude. You may think you're not, but you are.

NoelHeadbands Tue 26-Mar-13 16:16:44

You're coming across as a total tosser HTH

Binkybix Tue 26-Mar-13 16:17:24

What does HTH mean?

Dryjuice25 Tue 26-Mar-13 16:17:28

Your opinion. Dont mean to be rude but will respond to unpleasant posts as appropriate

Well that's 2 of us vs one of you so far.
Can you at least clarify if you have 3 or 4 children? Because your clarification was equally cryptic.

"it would have been clear as a blue sky even to a total lunatic that I have 3 dcs not 4 although I concede my post seems to imply 3 but had clarified that"

so your post implies 3. So 3 is wrong? So you have 4?

thekidsrule Tue 26-Mar-13 16:40:53

i have 3dc and single parent unemployed

i have to now pay £20 a month CT which i didnt before,

but i have benefits of approx £250 cash a week so dont have a problem paying this amount,as some poster said when you pay in you feel like you can voice an opinion on the services provided

also finding £5 a week towards this is not hard in my situation,i feel very sorry for the singles that get £71 a weeks and have to pay this and rent top up,seriously i would consider exempting them

op,you should have cleared your debts before claiming thus entitiling you to full benefit and live debt free that would of made you more able to manage

some will be angry that i have said that to claim more benefit but many do and you really should of looked into things more beforehand

and if your ex is claimimg for your dc and your basically providing etc you really should be claiming for them not him

LIZS Tue 26-Mar-13 16:46:07

The more I think about this , the more I agree the issue is not with the benefits and having to contribute but the fact that you ran up debts, presumably when working , which you can ill afford to service unless you use your redundancy. You need to stop trying to divert attention from the key issue here which is that at some point you and /or ex H have lived beyond your means.

kinkyfuckery Tue 26-Mar-13 18:01:10

I am not going to keep answering the same questions I have already answered as I have already stated my payments in detail.

Have you fuck?! You have lied again and again, and possibly still are. All that just so you can moan about spending a piddly £2.50 a week towards your contribution?
Come back when you actually have something real worth complaining about.

IneedAsockamnesty Tue 26-Mar-13 18:03:44

I have never ever not once had a dig at anybody for being on benefits not once. I often spend hours on threads trying to help people sort out messes with benefits or defending the use of them,I have even sent one of my employes nearly 100 miles to try and help a total stranger who was having issues with ESA.

Most of the posters on this thread doing anything that could constitute anything close to a flaming are on my posters I try to avoid spread sheet,and I expect I'm on there's because I'm a bit of a lefty.

But you know what? They have a point. Your rude and unpleasant.

TheCalvert Tue 26-Mar-13 18:20:01

I really must get a spreadsheet...

cloudy99 Tue 26-Mar-13 19:28:51

nickname only mentioned redundancy as op referred to it. No issue with that side of thing. The issue i have is that some claimants in my sisters area could be receiving maybe £250 per week benefits and she has been told she has to subside those claimants from her £71. Whilst I accept costs rise when you have a family but you can also saVe. Plus she has probably worked for 30 years approx and claimed very little back. No children to educate etc so for many years she has been subsidising those with children.

cloudy99 Tue 26-Mar-13 19:29:47

Thank you the kids rule

MummytoKatie Tue 26-Mar-13 20:19:17

Ok - I have read the thread and have a job where getting your head round lots of (often contradictory) numerical information is a big part so I'm going to have a go here.....

1. Op has three children - one of which is under 1
2. The older two kids live with her 50% of the time and her ex 50% of the time. The baby is with her all the time.
3. She gets income support, CTC for two children and CB for 2 children.
4. Her ex gets CTC and CB for the other child.
5. Her ex doesn't buy anything for the children. (Although presumably feeds them when they are with him.)
6. Op gets very annoyed if people haven't read the thread or are a bit confused by it.
7. However, Op will not tolerate people making comments she doesn't like and in fact claims she will only read the first sentence of posts she thinks are not helpful to her.
8. She is also not happy if people move off the point of the post (which I think is whether or not the unemployed should pay council tax.)
9. She has savings which she wants to use for a house deposit although they are now being eroded. I think there is also redundancy money.
10. She has a car loan debt and I think debt from a failed business venture.
11. She has cancelled her holiday.
12. The income figures she mentioned do not include CTC or CB as we should know she gets these.
13. She is not willing to say how much her savings are even in order to have other posters comment on whether she is missing out in benefits she is entitled to.

Is this a decent summary Op?

Personally I do have concerns about council tax coming out of benefits. I thought that benefits are assessed to be the minimum a person / family can live on. If so, then we shouldn't be taking some away. If not, then it seems far simpler to cut benefits than to have money going government -> claimant -> council in very small amounts.

simplesusan Tue 26-Mar-13 20:34:38

Everybody, well almost, is feeling the pinch.
Times are very hard.
My c t bill has gone up. My wages have not. Dh, as well as getting a 0% pay rise, has had his bonus level raised to such an extent that he will be approx £300 per month worse off.
On top of all this he has had to sign a contract stating that he will work unpaid overtime when ever his bosses demand him to. Turns out this is every single day.
He is physically exhausted and for what? So that we can stay above the bread line.

I really don't want to pay any more council tax, nobody does, so in fairness I think that everyone should have to pay something no matter how hard it is.

ShellyBoobs Tue 26-Mar-13 20:36:02


ShellyBoobs Tue 26-Mar-13 20:39:51

I thought that benefits are assessed to be the minimum a person / family can live on.

I used to think that too but I don't see how it can be the case given how massive the disparity between what a person without DCs can get compared to someone with DCs.

(Talking about someone being unemployed rather than disabled, etc.)

itsallyourownfault Tue 26-Mar-13 20:40:02

OP, you are possibly the most unreasonable OP I have ever read. And I suggest you don't have any more kids that we taxpayers have to support for you.

"I thought that benefits are assessed to be the minimum a person / family can live on"

But presumably this includes paying bills?

sunshine401 Tue 26-Mar-13 20:45:00

What is the point of this thread???
Do I think it is fair for people to pay council tax?? Well yes....confused

lemuzzy Tue 26-Mar-13 20:51:19

Mummy to Katie - thank you for clearing that up. If only the OP could have said that all to begin with!

Op I think Yabvu simply for creating such a misleading thread.

Bingdweller Tue 26-Mar-13 20:55:51

£183 a month council tax here and I work 12 hours per week. Husband hasn't worked in 4 months due to industry being quiet at the moment, this will pick up soon.

Has it even occurred to me that CT shouldn't be paid? Absolutely not. We have cut our cloth accordingly to take account of the situation - sold car, cancelled sky, taken DD out of private nursery, cut shopping bill etc. etc. etc. Our bills take priority.

We are not in the fortunate position as you seem to be of having a large stash of savings we are resentful of using to provide for ourselves.


Purple2012 Tue 26-Mar-13 22:04:51

As a family with 2 full time workers, on shifts, so hardly seeing each other I resent people like you op who thinks paying. £2.50 a week towards services they use is wrong. You have savings, I don't as I have a house to run, a child to support, I gave up my car and bus it to work as I can't afford for us to run 2 cars. This adds over 2 hours to a 10 hour shift. I am exhausted, I would love to pay so little for council tax.

People like you give people on benefits a bad name with your entitled attitude. I don't begrudge my tax going towards benefits for people who can't work, or are trying to find work, genuine claimants. What I do resent are the people who think the government owes them a living and want to claim when they have savings.

I'd like to bet you have more savings than I do.

Dryjuice25 Wed 27-Mar-13 01:06:46

Purple I'm not going to compare my vanishing savings with yours, you have gainful employment, I haven't and I'm desperate to get back on the saddle before I get into further financial ruin.
MummytoKatie thanks for reading it for the benefit of those who like to comment without a fucking clue about what info is already there and hence off tangent. I don't think I should put up with any nasty commments and why should I? My op was not to ask for what I am entitled to in terms of benefit, therefor people like itsallyourownfault are fucking out of order to make such comments.Did she fucking read about my redundancy during pg and studying to better myself and being desperate for a job? I guess not, so get off your fucking very high horse and oh, by the way I have a fucking interview coming up! So wish me fucking luck.

Also I dont need to make anymore disclosured as its unnecessary and I dont need any help with sorting benefits or whatever. And my luckmight change if I handle my interview well. Point of thread was totally missed, so it's now pointless and I won't get back these minutes I've wasted responding to people who post without reading. Fucking pointless really. But hey that's what you get when you put threads up there: All sorts.

Bingdweller Trust me, it's not a large stash anymore. I have had to cut down like you. My car is off the road, cook from scratch, cancelled some of the dcs hobbies and buying off ebay ad infinitum.
Lemuzzy I usually never drip feed.Only this thread took a direction I never anticipated. My issue was with people who will trouble to squeeze the extra. That was the whole fucking point but here we are and there you go

Dryjuice25 Wed 27-Mar-13 01:26:50

*any more disclosures
*will have trouble

LithaR Wed 27-Mar-13 02:04:32

I'm disabled with a child under 5 and my council has still decided that we should pay it.

Maybe I deserve it for having the audacity to be born disabled, and the horror of actually breeding. I should clearly have been sterilized to prevent my disabilities being inflicted on the general public any more than they are.

Dryjuice25 Wed 27-Mar-13 02:25:00

LithaR I'm Godsmacked by your post.

I'm sure no-one thinks like that about your situation at all. And my OP was meant to have solidarity with the most vulnerable people. I feel ashamed about the decision your council made about your situation as clearly it sounds wrong and you are struggling.And I hate that you are made to feel guilty about claiming benefits or having a dcs. It really breaksmy heart.The benefit system is very devisive as you can see on various insensitive post and a poster told me not to have dcs when I have worked since aged 22 and only recently been made reduntant,studying and applying for jobs but still am supposed to be this benefit monger who should not have kids. Its disgusting.

Not sure how this double posted

Dryjuice25 Wed 27-Mar-13 02:25:58

Oops, didnt double post after all

IneedAsockamnesty Wed 27-Mar-13 07:43:35


Are you by any chance also caused problems by the changes to under occupancy?

If so you can put a application into the DHF via HB that could bump up your HB a bit. There is bugger all you can do about the ct but if you can get a bit extra from the DHF it will make things easier.

IneedAsockamnesty Wed 27-Mar-13 07:49:49

Actually some LA have decided to use the DHF for vulnerable people also towards ct as rather than change the whole main point of the DHF just because of the new rules. Rather than exempt any group from the ct issue at source.

If you have a disability or a child with a disability you will be classed as vulnerable so phone your HB office and ask for a DHF form,when you get it it will be fairly self explanatory but if its not I'm happy to go through it with you.

HillBilly76 Wed 27-Mar-13 07:50:15

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

LithaR Wed 27-Mar-13 10:25:16

Its honestly how i feel at the moment. My house is a two bed housing association so not under occupied. Its just with having my bus pass taken off me due to them wanting to give me another medical. Then benefits office continuously sending me for medicals like they expect me to miraculously get better.

All this on top of many people telling me that I'm a scrounger and a sponger, its been a nightmare. I never wanted this for my life, I was trying to get out of it by studying at college but now they've even removed funding there for mature students. I'm doomed whichever way I try to turn. My house is freezing, I have to decide on whether I should by gas for the meter or buy food for my son. I really don't know what to do anymore, and when they add on council tax I wont be able to pay it. Its too much on top of everything else I have to pay for with being disabled.

I think I need a miracle.

LIZS Wed 27-Mar-13 10:29:02

I don't think your situation LithaR is at all comparable to op's sad Her attempt to self justify and align the two is insulting to those in genuine need.

LithaR Wed 27-Mar-13 10:36:07

I wish I could at least use the food banks, but they are only for families that are working. So not eligible for those. I think the odds of me surviving this government gets slimmer by the day.

I buy a lottery ticket every week in the hopes of some miracle, because I don't know what else I can do.

LIZS Wed 27-Mar-13 11:25:04

I didn't think that was the case - ask your HV or GP for a referral.

Dryjuice25 Wed 27-Mar-13 12:53:13

lizs Whatever makes you say I said my situation is the same as Lithah? shock Anyone can see this is totally incomparable by a mile!

Lithah I just want to give you a hug.I am very touched by your story and sockreturning has good advice for you.I'm sorry you're made to feel this way.I'm so frustrated for you and I hope they sort your situation out and give you a much needed break. [hugs]

LIZS Wed 27-Mar-13 12:54:51

Hope you feel duly humbled.

Januarymadness Wed 27-Mar-13 12:58:16

Shouldnt the theory be that by NOT subsidizing people with significant savings there should be more money in the pot for people with genuine and immediate need. i.e. disabled people who have to choose between food and heating.

Dryjuice25 Wed 27-Mar-13 13:19:09

Lizs Of course I do.No need to ram it home.

Januarymadness Couldn't agree more. It does put things into perspective somewhat.

And whilst at it why can't we sort out the loopholes in thetax system that allow corporations who use services to pay zilch in tax. And milionaire politicians who can expense anything they like and the millions of bank bonuses awarded for failure. And make sure we create growth....and jobs so people like me can actually be able to pay tax rather than rely on benefits whilst professional skills are getting frittered. The world would be so much better won't it? Thats my utopia.

That was my point January. If people with savings had to use them FIRST then there would be less people on benefits so more money for people who are in such awful situations as LithaR.

When people have used their savings they then become eligible for benefits also receiving a better rate and everyone starts from the same point.

It's how care home funding works - if you have assets or savings you self fund. Once they are used society funds your care as long as you need it.

I believe in a system where those in need should receive help and support, I am not a benefit basher at all, but I also believe in fairness, and I don't think it is fair that people should take from the pot when they have savings, thereby reducing the pot and consequently the amount paid to those who have nothing.

It's unequal and that isn't right. If a person has the means to support themselves they should do that, so that people who don't have those means can receive enough support to be able to meet their needs.

When DH was made redundant we didn't WANT to spend his redundancy money on living, we WANTED to squirrel it away for a house deposit. But the truth was we didn't NEED to claim benefits because we could afford to live, on the money we would rather have saved. To have had all that money in the bank and have claimed felt morally wrong, even though we could have.

Benefits should go to those that NEED them, in amounts that meet those needs. It shouldn't be about whether a person has paid into the pot - 'I've worked long enough so now I'm taking out because I can' - it should be solely about NEED, and if you have money no matter what your situation, you aren't in financial need.

Wanting to keep savings, and claiming to enable doing so, isn't fair on those who literally can't live without benefits.

Dryjuice25 Wed 27-Mar-13 14:11:01

Cooler I lived on my savings for a few months before claiming. And I worked since aged 22 and I didn't take kindly to being told I am a benefit monger when this is the first time I have ever felt the need for a little help. So whats your problem?

thekidsrule Wed 27-Mar-13 14:25:29

we should pay toward services we all use

obviously on a sliding scale,like what is happening now

seriously whether your a single parent/pensioner or disabled,we are talking a couple of pounds a week

when i read on here that some are paying £150 + a month i can see why their angry but come on £10-20 a month

im not suprised the working poor get hacked of with these situations

Dryjuice25 Wed 27-Mar-13 14:35:57

thekidsrule unnecessary post. See my previous responses

thekidsrule Wed 27-Mar-13 14:45:52

i dont think it was,thats why i commented

and yes i have been following this thread from the start

Dryjuice25 Wed 27-Mar-13 14:54:18

Just I didn't see anything that was not already mentioned that's all.
By the way the kids also rule in my household. Great name by the way! Love it.

thekidsrule Wed 27-Mar-13 14:54:38

so its ok for somebody that works to pay ct

but if you dont you should not

thats what it seems your saying

thekidsrule Wed 27-Mar-13 14:56:08

ok smile

Dryjuice25 Wed 27-Mar-13 14:57:25

Just no need for repeating the phrase 'by the way',when complaining about repetition! <slaps self on wrist>

Viviennemary Wed 27-Mar-13 15:05:12

I can't see how you can only be getting £55 a week for you and your DC's. I think it's reasonable to ask people to make a small contribution towards Council Tax.

I didn't call you a benefit monger or any thing else like that.

My problem is that the system is flawed. The point of benefits is to financially support those who are unable to support themselves. Paying benefits to people who have savings, and therefore have the means to support themselves for however long, makes a mockery of the purpose of the system and means that those who don't have anything still don't always have enough to heat and eat etc whilst money from the pot is paid to people who don't actually NEED it.

People with savings don't NEED benefits.

Obviously because the rules of the system say people with savings can claim, people will. The system is unfair and should be changed so that only people in financial need get financial support.

Our tax and NI pays for so many things and individuals use different services in different quantities that it makes the paid into the pot argument moot. You say that you have worked from 22, so I am assuming that you were a student until then? You also say this is the first time you have taken out of the system...

Extended child benefit is paid for students. Students don't pay for prescriptions, dentists or sight tests, various other things are subsidised for students, so you (and I) as an adult have taken from the pot previously.

But that doesn't change the fact that the reason you are able to claim is because the system says you can, so whilst I disagree with you I can see why you defend your right to do so - because in this system it IS your right...

But I believe that that right is in fact wrong.

LithaR Wed 27-Mar-13 15:53:43

Its gotten to the point I have debated with myself whether my son would be better off without me. At least then my son would get adopted by someone who could give him what I can't.

thekidsrule Wed 27-Mar-13 15:59:19

lithaR your son would never be better of without you

kids dont need everything

i think many parents feel how you are at some point in their lives,life throws some crap cards to many,but your son is no way better of without you

we just have to keep going,things do get better

i shall remind myself of my own words when needed

eminemmerdale Wed 27-Mar-13 15:59:58

Why do people say 'cook from scratch'? what does it mean? I cook from things in my kitchen - is that 'from scratch'?

Viviennemary Wed 27-Mar-13 16:23:26

I've never heard that foodbanks were only for working families. I thought they were for anyone in need.

Mandy2003 Wed 27-Mar-13 16:59:08

You have to be referred to be able to use a foodbank, it is irrespective of whether you are working or not. Referrals come from GPs, social services, health visitors and so on. I would like to think JobCentres could refer too, as many people do (and will) need them as a result of benefit fuck-ups angry

But I read recently that there's a rule that you can only use a foodbank 3 times in 12 months!!!

thekidsrule Wed 27-Mar-13 17:13:47

yes food banks are for the unemployed also

job centres can refer/provide vouchers

that's utter rubbish that they dont help the unemployed etc,somebody has mis informed you

it will deffo be worth you trying again to access your local foodbank

Dryjuice25 Wed 27-Mar-13 17:35:12

Coola Started working at 22. Was at Uni (abroad)before that. And
not at the expense of taxpayer's money!
I'm honoured to have you adorning my thread giving it much needed rubbish perspectivegrin

LithaH I can't even begin to tell you how your dear son will be lost without you. Are you getting any help with caring for him? I wouldn't know how to advise you but I think you need to speak to someone who can point you in the right direction. Maybe your GP would be a good start?

Eminemmerdale I suppose cooking from scratch is relative to everybody. Personally, I buy all my ingredients I need and cook/bake all my meals at home and I dont buy any ready meals like before. I'm actually angry how much I used to spend on take aways before as I have managed to eat better on the cheap and that way you always know whats in your food anyway. It's been a steep learning curve. My baking is atrocious though but the dcs don't know this yet and I have a lot to learn.

LithaR Wed 27-Mar-13 18:00:34

Well I'm being treated for severe depression at the moment. So the desire to pop off and leave him some insurance money isn't as bad now as it was.

But each day it gets harder to cope. Especially since I might have gotten caught pregnant again. I'm a fool and I hate that my life is like this. I wanted better things for my children than what I had. I'm just so tired of feeling cold and hungry.

Dryjuice25 Wed 27-Mar-13 18:16:06

I'm glad you're being treated for your depression. You sound like a really good mum and it goes without saying that your son thinks the world of you always although things might be difficult at the moment. Hopefully it's going to be warmer soon and we can all have a little break from the cold

forevergreek Wed 27-Mar-13 22:40:45

Sorry but I think £2.50 is perfectly acceptable to ask

Many pay the full price with less money left over for living

I'm not sure why ' I worked from age 22 is relevant'. You could be 23 for all we know. I myself as with many would have actually have to work many years before starting work at 22. Personally was earning from 15, so 7 years by that age. And that was throughout uni etc etc.

can you work on the days your ex has 2 children? Meaning only youngest in childcare?

Dryjuice25 Thu 28-Mar-13 00:37:27

Forever ' I have worked since I was 22' was directed at someone who said I'm a benefit monger. I'm 34 now and never been unemployed till last year. Like you, I remember working from young age washing neighbours' cars but that was cash in hand grin So, maybe not proper work.

I will put dc in nursery like I have done with the other 2dcs no problem.

Had an interview wednesday but they need someone more flexible, so not ideal for me and there was too much travel involved anyway. Feel like shit right now.

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